45 years in business, and NO sales. What am I doing wrong?

Most people I meet who want to start a business do not seem to have spent enough time figuring out how they will get customers.

Oh, I'll do SEO. Or facebook ads, or solo ads, they say. But they do not know what's involved in that.

Talk to two people recently who do facebook ads.

They both have prospects fill out a form, then contact them.

One contacts his leads 31 times (texts, email and phones) over 2 months. He can show you at any given time, how many times he's contacted the lead via each method.

The other one is sure he's contacting his leads at least 10 times (autoresponder has 6 email message and he's sure he calls them at least 4 times before he gives up).

Cannot tell you where he is with each lead.

Guess which one makes sales like clockwork?

By the way, the 2nd guy is bright... just disorganized and not aware of how many times he needs to contact his leads to convert. He, by the way, is happy with the random sale... (He, like the other guy, are in the mortgage business... One sale brings in between $1000 and $10,000... on average $4400 for the 2nd, 6200 for the first).

He is happy because he ends up making a few dollars more a month than at the last job he had. And times are busy... When the extra busy times in the mortgage industry go down, which they will do, he won't be so happy. Might even have to close shop.

By the way, he contacts 6 times because he's read somewhere that, on average, people buy on the 6th contact...

Hope he accepts soon that it is better to do more than average and count on averages.

Thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it.

I recommend Steve Blank's customer development plan. Founders have an idea, and the first thing that must be done is to prove whether that idea is a delusion or real.

What I linked to is the simple version. You can google and find more, including a free video series of short, zippy explanations of what to do next.

But I'll say this: I've been in this forum for nine years. I see the same problems today as I did then. People thinking some magic bullet Conversion tool is "a business"... instead of one part of a business, and one that might not work for you.

EDIT: I know GordonJ is a longtime contributor to the forum and that his post is with just a sprinkle of sarcasm. My response wasn't aimed at him, but rather at the struggler attracted by the headline and reading this thread.

Give up and get a job?
I know it might sound harsh but we all have to face the reality.

After 45 years (which is impressive) are you a Millionaire?
Just asking.
: )

P.S.
It's just that for a Person determined enough, it could take them between 1 - 3 years to reach that level.

Not to be rude but this post reminded me of something.

About 10 years ago, around the time I started to use warriorforum, I had a friend who's around 55 and had a master degree in business. His business was to teach people how to succeed in business. One of his most important teachings was "have your business plan, or it will be the biggest reason you fail". He sounded like making money was like printing money yourself, and the amount of money you were going to make depended on your plan: how much and when you plan to print. Two years later, he's penniless.

He didn't know most of small businesses were like fishermen who couldn't afford satellite tracking but had to go out to the sea without knowing where the preys (money) were. The reality is more like "getting ready + seeking lucks".

i am not sure if i understand but if it pass 45 years without making a sale then its hard for me to think that .I will be sincere with you quit and find a real job this its not for you

I think your point with this post is that if you are just struggling paying for courses and systems and can't make S#*$ no matter what you try that you can give them a helping hand and point them in the right direction because you feel for them and you have a lot of experience. I think that is cool that you are willing to do that. Props to you. Thankfully I have had that breakthrough and am doing great online. If I was stuck I would of definitely reached out. I recommend anybody in that position to take you up on that offer because it took me running into the right person to change everything for me.

GordonJ is an OG in internet marketing... an institution on SowPub and one of the greats in this space.

His Chattel Report is a classic...

His lesson here is worth noting, especially for everyone who believes 'being in business' is about 'doing, doing doing' and never making a sale. You gotta think about that, and why, and fix the problem.

My take-away was, "Maybe your focus should be on selling what people want to buy... and not what you got to sell and shoving it down people's throats..."

But as Gordon says, his post was a bit "tongue in cheek"... but there's a critical lesson there too.

Wow! You must be doing something wrong. maybe sales is just not for you. Time for a career change!

You need to audit your site first fully that where you are doing wrong then check your competitors you will see everything and also check which product you are selling first check trend then make more effect

Gordon knows what he's talking about! Track down his "Before You Buy Anything" report. This is solid gold info... 20yrs later it's still valid.

Remote Influence (Hypnosis) changed the way I looked at marketing forever. It focused on the one thing people seem to miss... It ain't about "stuff" it's about people.

I am going to approach this is a straight forward manner, as I have experienced it.

Don't follow someone else's business plan; develop your own.

Simple: What goods or services can you produce or offer that offer real value -- and people want?

Now that is the first step. For me it was writing and art. But that was just the beginning. I had to hone these skills and products into niches people wanted to buy.

I many cases, my skills and products were not in demand! Wow. Back to the drawing board.

So, I researched, experimented and produced products and services and began to make a few sales. But my ROI was low because the competition was ravaging. That is another ever-changing factor in this mix.

Creating a business is no easy task, and there are thousands who will take your money promising you a secret path. Do not believe them or waste your time and money.

To Thyself be true!

You can only have a successful business if you have the skills or products someone wants to purchase at a price that produces a reasonable profit or ROI. It is quite possible, but not easy, unless you are born with such talents or skills.

You must take a serious inventory of yourself, alone. Be honest. Find your product and service and build on it, after must work and study. You must offer real value to customers who want or need what you offer at the price you are offering it.

Now a days, every business needs on attractive social media platforms essence. So should be update social media platforms by eye catchy post design, setup ads campaign, boosting.

Face the reality. You just don't have that something. To be on the top in this game you need to Provide stunning quality of yourself. It's hard today..everyone needs quick money. And you need just pure talent for selling.

Learn copywriting.

For a bit more than the sake of discussion I am going to disagree with this. Starting with a business plan ( in my opinion ) is flat out failure waiting to happen. BUT, I will turn right back around and say a business plan is indeed a good idea... just not a starting point.

In order for a business plan to work, you need data. If a business plan is a starting point, the data would then be "Subjective". Subjective numbers that support a desire 99.9% of the time will result in failure.

I would then suggest that focusing on a personal need.. and going out and determining the demand from others from your own personal need starts transitioning "Subjective" into "Objective". All of the sudden there is an amount of data.

A personal example... my son wanted a rabbit and we ( wife actually ) got him a rabbit. Rabbits like a diet of pellets and fresh greens. Rabbits happen to eat more fresh greens in a week than you can imagine. I built an inexpensive hydroponic setup in my back yard to produce greens.

Like many things in my life I over produced, and understood if I needed greens than others might too... I went out and found demand for fresh greens. I was able to turn a profit out of my over production and wasn't wasting perfectly good greens.

It was about at that point that I had a product, understood the need, and had a better than good idea of demand and a business plan came into play. I at this point had hard numbers. I understood what and how much a "client" may purchase. I understood what was needed to scale my pvc hydroponic setup into something a bit more industrial.

The whole business was predicated and birthed out of personal need. Nothing more... nothing less.

There is a better than huge difference between "starting a business" and "starting a business that fills a need in a market space". and getting a grasp on that difference is the absolute separation of failure and success.

45 years, eh?
Which reminds me what P. T. Barnum said:
"There's a sucker born every minute"

Is anyone in here would dare to challenge P. T. Barnum?



fastreplies

How many threads are there that say 'I want to make money online but I don't want to sell anything'....or 'what niche should I choose' ....or the various 'mindset' threads (if you believe, you can achieve.....The Secret Works, blah blah)????

If you see a need and fill it - you can call it 'providing a service' instead of 'selling' if that floats your boat. Just realize that people who find a need - or capitalize on their OWN need - are doing well year after year while others are discussing what to do in the future...year after year.

Keep in mind those numbers are the result of over 20 years of 'membership'...grains of salt needed....

A local business startup might have to consider the market size, but online, it's an unnecessary stage, IMO - as long as you can determine that there are buyers that you can access, you're normally good to go. The other factors will be whether you can create or source the product or service at a cost that turns an acceptable profit. I've seen people get bogged down trying to analyse a market to death before committing themselves to a venture, when one of the key aspects of running a business is reacting to opportunities rather than sticking to a plan.

In my neighborhood which has a higher than average proportion of elderly residents, there's a gardening firm, started out last year with two people and a van, who've diversified this year to supply groceries to those who are house-bound and can't get a convenient delivery slot from the supermarkets. Along the way, they've picked up several new gardening clients for when the pandemic subsides. That wouldn't have been in any business plan.

Funny thing about P&Ls for funding... way back in the pre-internet days, I was involved in a few startups that needed funding. The CEO of one of the most profitable venture capital firms in the UK at the time told me he never paid any attention to the P&L forecast - he realized they were largely cosmetic. What he was looking to invest in were the people behind the company. Business plans change, markets change, unforeseen events happen. If a business was going to survive and thrive, it would be down to actions and reactions of whoever's running it.

I find it strange that affiliate marketing seems to be the popular choice for so many new members. It's probably the hardest area to make any decent money in without already having a sizeable following. Perhaps it's the idea that they don't need to create a product themselves that's the attraction.

I'd have to agree that the best way for any newcomer to get started is to go where there's already a large, established base of buyers, such as eBay. It's all very well to say learn copywriting or start a niche content blog, but anyone who's that way inclined is more than likely already doing that. What we're left with are those who still believe they're just one more MMO product away from discovering the secret to online success. Any plan that doesn't start with 1) Stop buying stuff - would be pointless.

Don't Worry You need to make a checklist like:-

1. Focus on the Brand name - Catchy name

2. Which product do you sale in the Market - Analysis market wants this product or not.

3. Focus on your employee - They are happy or not, ask the opinion, Employee happy your customer happy.

4. Ask feedback from the market about you product.

I read the post and I am not exactly sure what's going on. You haven't made any sales from this opportunity, how others can get on board after you say that? Obviously not trying to do any harm just wondering about this and being honest.

Best advice is good advice but business plan software? Clear idea of what you want? Not familiar with those concepts I'm afraid.

Are you sure that spending money only worked for Mr B? For some reason or other the more you spend (and sometimes even the more you intend to spend) the more you end up having. Mind you, money does make the world go round so oiling the cogs should be mandatory if you have it.

Very powerful wake up call about calling a pursuit of a business a business.

But who knows it could be a psychologically tool that helps you make it happen.

Success does leaves clues.

I say this often and probably always will. There is an entire Free University at every Website Auction site.


You know what sold. For how much. How they got Traffic. How long it took.

Did they outsource, on and on that is pure leverage we can benefit from.

Often we talk about working for Freedom. Define it.

Freedom to stay in bed all day?

Travel?

I can tell you first hand about traveling you have to be even more disciplined and organized than you ever were in your home town.

Unless you already have recurring income streams if you have no one to hold you accountable and you can wake up, go to the beach, and have a cold one for breakfast it may possibly present challenges to some.

For newbies get your first base hit. Forget about the grand slam homerun for now.

Sell something. If you can not create it, affiliate with something proven.

Many of the things we need to have a business online and are paying for we can also promote as we know there will be new people to the internet that also need those things.

The funny thing is marketers are the cause of most marketers challenges.

Copywriters are trying to hypnotize us. We are learning funnels and getting pummeled with funnels every day.

The day after that 3 week launch promo that was so expensive and got you so excited you will get an entirely new promo with just as much urgency.

Get the base hits. Find something that is already selling....improve on it even it it is just a bonus.

Yes here it comes...

Having your own list makes every promo that much easier.

You can wake up one day survey your list and they will let you know challenges they are having so you can create exactly what they want to buy.

I have seen this forum make millionaires or it was at least in the overall success story but I have seen more crash and burns.

Sometimes it is being stubborn. Sometimes it is taking quick action without the strategy and knowing stuff like a launch sequence and having a list in place.

Sometimes we can be broke than a joke. That Matters.

We know what we need and we even know who is offering it. But we know that upfront interview is designed to weed out the broke not ready for prime time players.

So what....find a way.

Even if you just been hanging out at this forum and absorbing all you can you might know more than the person that just joined or may join next week.

You can still put together content others will find valuable.

There is plenty here.

Laundry soap and vitamins. That's where it all went wrong. If I can buy them at my local grocery store, why do I need you and your products? You can scream at me all day long that they are unique or they are better. I just don't care. Nobody does.

At this time, every business needs an attractive social media platform, email marketing, and campaign.

Technology has changed alot in 4 decades, adapt

I've been there. 1994. Amway was already a loser that time. Their concept was brilliant but forgot to help the member to do the proper selling... and instead the focus was only getting more members and created a pyramid scheme. That's the fact. So, I'm sure it was not us who did wrong, but the marketing they taught was wrong in the real implementation.
Today, most of the online opportunities are just the same like the old money trap like that. So, the safer way is always getting "real job" either in real world or online. And in the end I think that success business is not for everyone, either in real world or online.

Get a mentor to direct you properly on the steps to take in order to start making sales. I was less than a month before I started seeing some result. Do the right thing and your will see the right results. Please let no one get discouraged.

Depends on your niche and what kind of service you to do people. If your business has the potential to give value to people who need it and it failed then your marketing style needs changing. However, if your business is in reality doesn't give any value to people just an empty promise or selling a business that bound to fail e.g. some network marketing, then you can spend a century on it, it still fails 'unless' you're the organizer or among those sitting at the top.

Wow, 45 years! That is some record and an impressive one at that, can I just mention that after reading your post I can't see why you wouldn't have made a single sale. The reason being is that the way in which you write is down to earth and personable so on that note, do you think that your past selling strategies have been somewhat askew?
How about not trying to sell anything? Instead, have you considered simply providing value to an audience?

What I'm saying is that after all these years, you must have a huge wealth of experience which you can easily share with others, and I'm guessing that sooner rather than later you'll start making consistent sales.

To add to this, I want to tell you that I myself would buy from you but not because of the product that you might be selling, nope, I would buy from you as a person because of the way in which you seemingly communicate with people. I trust you even though I don't know you from Adam.

I hope that this helps you out, and I hope that it won't be another 45 years until you make a sale.

It is very common for startups/businesses to fail. Make sure you spend the time to create a business plan - this can also help determine feasibility of your venture.

I had a similar problem with an opportunity I was presented to. I was with that company for 10 years before I finally jumped ships. Before I jumped ships, I sat and pondered why I was not being very successful with the business. I called a friend of mine who was in another business that he was doing very well with. By seeing what the differences were between the two businesses, I finally came to the conclusion that there were three reasons that held me back from being successful with the first company.

First reason- The company I was with originally was flooded in the market already. Almost every person I spoke to had already heard of it and some already tried the business with no success. Very few people that I introduced the company to had not heard of it. But even those few people were scared away by others that they talked to about it that had heard of it. This was a big problem!

Second reason- Tools are a big part of running a successful business. The first company I was with had very little tools and resources to use with potential customers and prospects. The new company had plenty of resources to use. It had so many, it took me a couple of days to go through them. There were marketing ideas and outlined ideas that contained plenty of information on how to get started in the business as well as how to launch a "curiosity and attraction" campaign. There were training videos to help you share product information and prospect videos. The company offered email drip campaigns that would automatically send emails out to prospects and customers on your behalf. The lists goes on. Tools and resources are very valuable.

Third reason- The company I was originally with was not very open. It was like your upline didn't want you talking to others on the team privately. I never could figure out why. Team building is so important in building a successful business. Your team should be like family to you. The tighter your whole team becomes, the faster your business will grow.

Once I changed companies, I put the tools and resources to work. In my first month, I made more money and had a bigger business than I did in one year with the other company. The company I am with now is still new and fresh. This makes it so much easier to talk to potential customers and prospects. There are not many people who have heard of the company so a lot of people wanted to try the products. This allowed me to build a 4 figure income in just my first month.

I hope this helps with your journey. This is just my experience and opinions. But the results I have had confirms everything for me.

You made me smile, Gordon.

When I first started investigating entrepreneurship I was involved in the same "business" and gave it a solid year. Went to all the meetings, including out of town gatherings on the west coast in Portland and Spokane, I developed a retail side, and even introduced a few people into my downline.

I actually still have friends who are in it and purchase products from them as a retail client because they do have some good stuff... I especially like the prewash stain remover. Nothing like it in the stores.

Anyway, I analyzed the numbers cause, well, that's what I do.

From a retail standpoint it was impossible to compete on price, and no matter how you slice it, when you need toilet paper it's just plain inconvenient to wait for it to come in the mail. :-)

Remember "Buy from yourself, and teach others to do the same..."? "If you owned a Ford dealership, you wouldn't buy your vehicles from the Chevy dealership down the street would you?"...

My example (which I rehearsed to my upline mentor to his chagrin) was to imagine a guy who had purchased a McDonald's franchise. Burgers were $25 each, fries were $19.25, and shakes were $14.50. The district manager told us that we should buy from ourselves and teach other to do the same. Of course, we would not pay RETAIL for our own food, we would pay "wholesale" Burgers for us were only $19.50, fries were $15.40, and shakes were $12.80. And in this franchise district, we were going to do things a little different. Instead of putting all of our focus on retail customers, we were going to focus on attracting OTHER FRANCHISE OWNERS. We were going to "look for people who are looking for opportunity" and introduce them to our franchise opportunity. Of course, we'd get a portion of each franchise owner's profits... which made sense because we were providing the guidance and mentorship to make him profitable. We would then instruct him to do the same, and on and on. We would simply earn money by buying from ourselves and teaching others to do it...

I asked my upline what he thought of my new idea for a fast food franchise. LOL.

Of course, this model doesn't work because the products are overpriced and can't compete head-to-head with comparable products (no matter how much superior the quality may be) and the comparable inconvenience of waiting for items in the mail was just impossible to overcome.

And without retail customers there's no business and no money.

And any franchise owner downline won't stick around because they quickly see the negative numbers adding up. You can't spend $300 for a performance bonus of $6 and stay in business for too long. And without retail customers... well.

After my year examining this business I actually wrote a book titled, "Network Marketing Myths" and made more money selling that book online than I had in all my network marketing revenue (and I had even made it to "Silver" status before throwing in the towel).

Anyway, Gordon, thanks for bringing back some good memories and making me smile.

All the best,

Pat

sounds like a dabbler than a business person