What is a fair price to charge local business for a small site

65 replies
Hi again

Sorry, I feel like I'm hitting the forum hard tonight.

What do you feel is a fair price to charge for a small business site, one with an index, a contact page and an about us page or whatever. I'm don't want to do it as a main source of income, more just to feed the IM engine and make seed money.

Thanks
Phil
#business #charge #fair #local #price #site #small
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
    Hi Phil,

    You left this pretty open.

    Will you supply hosting.
    Domain Name.
    Site design.

    Not enough info to give you a direct answer.

    What cha gonna do?

    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikedb
    I charge between $2,000 and $3,000 for a small site.
    No rankings included.

    If you want more info on how to calculate a good amount, based on the needs....PM me.

    Regards,

    Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
      Hey Michael

      Good to see you! I'm still using your tool for seaching WSOs! Cool.

      Opps, yeah, I've left it a bit open like you say, I guess most of them would want you to host it as they won't have a clue how to do that, and upload etc.

      @ Mike...woaahh!! 2-3 grand!! crieky! Well, thanks for the offer, I'll PM you for more info. Many thanks.

      Phil
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by Mikedb View Post

      I charge between $2,000 and $3,000 for a small site.
      No rankings included.

      If you want more info on how to calculate a good amount, based on the needs....PM me.

      Regards,

      Mike

      WOW!!!

      I guess it depends on where you are. I saw a sign on the side of the road here yesterday that advertised a "basic" website for $300.

      Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsarina
      Originally Posted by Mikedb View Post

      I charge between $2,000 and $3,000 for a small site.
      No rankings included.

      If you want more info on how to calculate a good amount, based on the needs....PM me.

      Regards,

      Mike
      May I also PM you?
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  • Profile picture of the author 2very
    I am interested on this as well.
    I would supply hosting
    domain and site design or install wordpress with a template
    and the about us, contact, and introduction page.
    I would appreciate very much your opinion Michael.
    Ezio.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenJ
      This is quite a simple thing to work out.

      What is your hourly rate? find that out and charge it. Once you have a customer who trusts you they will pay you on demand if you can show them that spending money on online marketing will give then a stream of leads for their business.

      If a business pays $20,000 on yellow pages advertising per annum and gets 100 orders from this - can you get them the same number of customers for $10,000? If you can then you will have a customer for life because you have just halved their advertising budget.

      Kenj
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  • Profile picture of the author euhlir
    The pricing point is important. Better to go high, hear their response, and then negotiate to the price you really wanted all along. You may even get lucky and get the high price you originally tell them.
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Hey Kenj

    I guess what you're saying there is adding an SEO package too. Yeah, good tactic to compare it to a price they would pay for other advertising, and often not as targetted, people spend a fortune on newspaper ads, just hoping that they will see an ad at the time they need the service.

    thanks again for your comments troopers
    Phil
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    • Profile picture of the author radhika
      BEST WAY TO JUDGE IS:

      How much income your clients are getting from the web site you are going build for them?

      If they want an online presence for the sake of it, they are not be interested in paying thousands of dollars. You can charge $100.00 to $300.00 which includes hosting and a domain name. These people DON'T need their web sites updated often.

      On the other end companies who are expected something from their web sites, you can charge them $1000.00 and above and include hosting, domain name, updates, SEO etc. Clients like these needs frequent web site updates.

      So it depends on how your client look at this online presence ...

      .
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      I generally see $300-$1200 for a basic "fill in the blanks" static HTML website template with hosting, customization and so forth being extra, often a lot extra.
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Hi Guys

    Sorry for bumping up an old post of mine, wondered if anybody else has had experience as a web-designer selling to local businesses....any tips on how to work out pricing, whether to bother with small shops or try and go for big fry...or just how to not look like an idiot!! ;-)

    Cheers,
    Phil
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Hi Phil - the majority of my sites come in at around £350 - £500.

      Most of my clients don't ask me how much it will cost. They either know me, or know of me, or contact me because they have seen a site I did for someone they know.

      People know I don't overcharge.

      If someone starts by asking you how much you will charge, the chances are you'll never hear from them again - whether you quote £50 or £5k.

      As I've said before - "people buy people". In other words, people will come to you because they know you or know of you or have seen your work.

      People don't buy random sales pitches. Think laterally. Find a way of getting to know local business owners so they come to you.

      Edit: Do I feel a wso coming on here???? Now there's a thought!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bishops
      Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

      Hi Guys

      Sorry for bumping up an old post of mine, wondered if anybody else has had experience as a web-designer selling to local businesses....any tips on how to work out pricing, whether to bother with small shops or try and go for big fry...or just how to not look like an idiot!! ;-)

      Cheers,
      Phil
      Phil,

      As Riz already mentioned you need to separate yourself from the 1,000's of other web designers out there, think outside of the box.

      One way of doing this is guarantee the client that you will get them a No.1 position (or on the 1st page) on Google for FREE.

      How would you do this? Simply by using Google local business center and Google maps to create a profile for your client. This will take you around 5 minutes of your time and your client should be indexed and on the first page, right at the top in a few weeks

      As an example if your clients business is a Hair Salon and they are based in Earlsfield, London. After having created a Google local business listing for them, they will appear on the 1st page for search terms such as:

      hair salon earlsfield
      hair salons in earlsfield
      etc

      Now this is TARGETED traffic for them, being No1 for the term "hair salon" is not going to be targeted traffic for a bricks and mortar business.

      Something else to think about, if local businesses already have a website and are not listed on Google's local business center and their website is not optimised for their search phrase, then contact them and tell them you can get them on the 1st page of Google for a small fee
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  • Profile picture of the author Riz
    Hi Phil,

    What you need to do is seperate yourself from the 1000's of other designers in the market.

    You are a marketer and your aim is to have your clients website working for them, bringing in business for them rather sitting looking pretty in cyber space.

    The only way to do that is to first of all understand the needs of the client and where their business is at. This will only be acomplished in a face to face meeting.

    You should offer:

    SEO Services
    List Generation and management.
    Video Promotions
    Social Media
    PPC

    The majority of SME's have already been bombarded by the webdesigners out there.

    In saying that if a client needs a small brochure site my company charges £497.

    Riz
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by Riz View Post

      Hi Phil,

      What you need to do is seperate yourself from the 1000's of other designers in the market.

      You are a marketer and your aim is to have your clients website working for them, bringing in business for them rather sitting looking pretty in cyber space.

      The only way to do that is to first of all understand the needs of the client and where their business is at. This will only be acomplished in a face to face meeting.

      You should offer:

      SEO Services
      List Generation and management.
      Video Promotions
      Social Media
      PPC

      The majority of SME's have already been bombarded by the webdesigners out there.

      In saying that if a client needs a small brochure site my company charges £497.

      Riz
      I agree completely! DO NOT just build a site the business's owner's nephew can build. Build an optimized site using all the best practices you see here. Include submission and acceptance to the big 3's business directories (Not promised, this is something you just do as part of the 'over-delivery')

      Outsource a small report and explain email marketing and sign them up to your AR using their credit card and your affiliate link.

      Explain on going SEO and the fresh content theory. Sell not just a one time fee, but a never ending monthly payment of services to keep his content fresh , his name in front of his customer base and as time goes by, ranking for more and more commercial keywords. Depending on who produces the content for the AR and a twice monthly email blast and a monthly or every other month newsletter (Sent both by email and physically) would make the monthly amount vary.

      You have the knowledge on this forum to be able to deliver $2500-$5000 or more in value working just 2-3 hours a month and can charge half of that to both over deliver AND make a nice recurring income that does not rely on someone else's landing page selling the traffic you drive to it. (That is making over $100 an hour and up to $1000 an hour! You can't make that with doctor's degree!)

      That is the way to go
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Hey Riz and Rosetrees

    Great posts, thanks!! Ok, so it's not just rocking up and offering one of those 4 page sites for a few hundred. Hmmmm, and there I was thinking this could be easy seed money. However, as mentioned by Riz, with all the marketing experience, can offer something much more valuable beyond that. A ton of people know nothing about squeeze pages, aweber, video marketing etc.

    Sooo, from that, maybe it would be easier to approach companies wih existing sites to get their site in front of more people..hmmmm...although, SEO for example is something else they probably get bombbarded with?????
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

      SEO for example is something else they probably get bombbarded with?????
      Yup! One of my customers forwarded me an email just a few days ago from a company in the US offering to get them on the first page of Google for "stated keyword" for $99.

      I emailed them back saying "Your'e on the first page of Google for "stated keyword" - that'll be $99 please - just kidding!" (I got to know them quite well)

      Another phoned me a few days ago as they are revamping their business and want to make the website their main sales tool. They said that someone from London had phoned to tell them that the "premium" domain name "businesstypeLedbury.com" had "just become available" and they could have it for £50 a year.

      They made one elementary mistake. They didn't register that "premium"domain name. We nipped in and registered it - I cloned their website to it for the time being with a change of just a few keywords. So for the £50 they got a copy site, registered and hosted for a year and waiting for us to do some proper work on. Result for me - happy client.

      If you want more clues about how I get my clients - shoot me a PM
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Wow!!!! (and I don't mean workd of warcraft lol)

    Thanks again rosetrees for some great tips!! ...and DogScout for some great information!! I really appreciate it!!! ..a lot!

    Thanks
    Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    You're welcome.

    Even those like me that target customers that can only scrape together $500 a month (at 1st, but your efforts will improve their cash flow) and you never raised the price... 20 clients= 10k a month and maybe 1 work week or 10 hours of work a week or so. Not a bad return even if you outsourced everything, you'd retain 2/3rds to 3/4s of that. You would be paid for coordinating it. Sort of a business marketing contractor. Lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Man, that's the way to do it, when outsourcing is done properly, it can be dangerous!!! ;-) I remember my uncle saying to somebody once that he'd never make much money because he worked too hard LOL. Now, I know this all still takes work, but when you work smater than harder, it's mind blowing what can be achieved! BTW, I always laugh when I saw yoiur slogan "Self unemplyed" - that's brilliant!!
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    • Profile picture of the author cgcmarketing
      Just keep in mind when your pricing the project for them that if they did even the slightest amount of research, they would find someone to do a basic website for a couple hundred dollars. When you pitch them a price, make sure it is fair. I can build a simple website in a single day, in 4-6 hours, and there is no way I am going to charge someone $2,000-$3,000 for something that takes me 4-6 hours. Treat people fairly, and price it fairly, and it will come back to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Hardin
    Phil -
    Marketing to off-line businesses has apparently become "the next best thing" and a lot of people are trying their hand at it. Several marketers are "teaching" this and are charging $1000 to $2000. Their students are then told to go outsource the work. Riiiight! As if it is easy to find top quality providers at a reasonable price. Most people "hit the wall" at around 10 clients and find themselves with a full time J.O.B., just what they were trying to get away from.
    I have assembled a team of top writers, graphic designers, site developers and offer a fully developed SEO site for $600. This includes keyword analysis, SEO page content, logo and header design and an opt-in box, or database to capture leads - something most small business sites lack. The consultants (sales people) charge whatever the market will bear, usually around $1500. Most of the sites are based on Hostgator templates, premium WP themes, or Artisteer templates, although they can be developed from scratch.
    The very best clients are small businesses that already have a website that is not working for them. That is about 99% of all small brick and mortar businesses.
    I advise the consultants to concentrate on businesses that have a high customer value. Plumbers, electricians, roofers are all good candidates. A single sale will usually pay for our services. While $1500 may seem high, it is a drop in the bucket compared to what they are paying for newspaper and Yellow Page advertising, and is a lot more effective.
    If you decide to try this I think you will be surprised at the positive response you will get from business owners. They know that they need this, but most don't know how to do it themselves and are so busy trying to keep their own businesses afloat that they welcome the help.
    Good luck with this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      $300 for the most basic, $500 with advertising, $1000 for legal reps, mostly all outsourced, and I try to put 50% into local fundraisers or my local food kitchen called Sharron's Church here in Muscatine.
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      • Profile picture of the author cgcmarketing
        Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

        $300 for the most basic, $500 with advertising, $1000 for legal reps, mostly all outsourced, and I try to put 50% into local fundraisers or my local food kitchen called Sharron's Church here in Muscatine.
        This sounds more reasonable. The Web Designers who think it's "normal" to charge $2,000-$4,000 for a small website have gone "bonkers." This is a new day and age, the age of Joomla, Wordpress, readily available website templates, and outsourcing. You can't charge for a website what they used to charge back when a website was considered an elite thing to have. You have to change with the time.
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        • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
          Originally Posted by cgcmarketing View Post

          This sounds more reasonable. The Web Designers who think it's "normal" to charge $2,000-$4,000 for a small website have gone "bonkers." This is a new day and age, the age of Joomla, Wordpress, readily available website templates, and outsourcing. You can't charge for a website what they used to charge back when a website was considered an elite thing to have. You have to change with the time.
          Small business owners sometimes need a hand, most business owners in this day and age seriously struggle to compete against large corporations or other well established entities.

          I could go around and charge $1700 for a website, and maybe might make an agreement with one business owner for every 60 I meet. However, saying "look, I can make you a $1700 website for $300, heres what I can do: [insert how a website and seo helps their business]" and then I teach them how to run it themselves. The majority of the site is getting outsourced for maybe $30 to $50 bucks, so its not like I'm NOT making money, and the chances to land a client for $300 is way higher than landing one for $1700.

          Now a days, most 15 year olds can produce an efficient website taught to them at school.
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          • Profile picture of the author DogScout
            Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

            Small business owners sometimes need a hand, most business owners in this day and age seriously struggle to compete against large corporations or other well established entities.

            I could go around and charge $1700 for a website, and maybe might make an agreement with one business owner for every 60 I meet. However, saying "look, I can make you a $1700 website for $300, heres what I can do: [insert how a website and seo helps their business]" and then I teach them how to run it themselves. The majority of the site is getting outsourced for maybe $30 to $50 bucks, so its not like I'm NOT making money, and the chances to land a client for $300 is way higher than landing one for $1700.

            Now a days, most 15 year olds can produce an efficient website taught to them at school.
            Like I said before, for me, offer me $300 for no work and I won't get out of bed to take it. (Or off this forum). When you stop selling a commodity and sell yourself, YOU are a priceless commodity that can not be compared.

            Before getting the 1st check, I outsourced 350 back links, dropped off a copy of Bill Glazer's new book and out-sourced a maintenance manual for a clients current customers (and to use as a email/name capture carrot.) Who else does that? Do you think I am worried about being undercut? Not a chance, I have created 'trust' and 'loyalty'. I pay too much for insurance because of my loyalty to my agent which goes beyond the business side of his life. There are those to whom trust and loyalty means little, those would be the customers I don't want at ANY price!
            Selling results has so far resulted in 100% close ratio, not 1 in 60 for a website.)
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  • Profile picture of the author cgcmarketing
    Better yet, anyone who will PAY $2,000-$4,000 for a simple website is only doing so because they have absolutely NO IDEA about it, are being pitched a long list of technical chatter, and the person selling it to them is taking advantage of that fact. This is the truth. If you sat down with a local business owner and said "I can build you a nice 5-10 page HTML website that is SEO friendly, will get you local listings, etc. for $2,000" and they said "why does it cost $2,000?" That is when that person would start using technical jargon to try and complicate the process, when in all reality... they could probably do it themselves after reading a basic book.
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by cgcmarketing View Post

      Better yet, anyone who will PAY $2,000-$4,000 for a simple website is only doing so because they have absolutely NO IDEA about it, are being pitched a long list of technical chatter, and the person selling it to them is taking advantage of that fact. This is the truth. If you sat down with a local business owner and said "I can build you a nice 5-10 page HTML website that is SEO friendly, will get you local listings, etc. for $2,000" and they said "why does it cost $2,000?" That is when that person would start using technical jargon to try and complicate the process, when in all reality... they could probably do it themselves after reading a basic book.
      The answer to the question is: 'Because it cannot be done effectively for less. If you want to pay xxxxx for something that will bring you little or no return, be my guest.' Period, no jargon, no BS.
      (Most small business owners don't have time to read a book, even if they can read, let alone the time to do it themselves. Odds are, they will read the wrong book and end up doing it wrong anyway.)
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      • Profile picture of the author cgcmarketing
        Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

        The answer to the question is: 'Because it cannot be done effectively for less. If you want to pay xxxxx for something that will bring you little or no return, be my guest.' Period, no jargon, no BS.
        (Most small business owners don't have time to read a book, even if they can read, let alone the time to do it themselves. Odds are, they will read the wrong book and end up doing it wrong anyway.)
        If you won't get out of bed for $300, congratulations, you are obviously doing well in life. I make over $320,000+ per year, and yet, If a local business owner needed a simple website, I may do it for free, or for what it's worth, a few hundred dollars, I would never over-charge them, because guess what? When they start talking about it to their associates and friends and Jim mentions that he got a website that looks even nicer for a lower price by outsourcing, your client is not going to be too happy with you. Meanwhile, because I offered them a reasonable rate, when their friends discuss it, and possibly discuss bigger projects, I will be given numerous referrals.

        Also, answer me this. What would be the difference between your 5 page HTML Website and the 5 Page HTML Website of a High Quality Outsourced Employee? I know some mini-site designers on here who can pump out AMAZING quality Wordpress websites in 2-3 days for a few hundred dollars.

        Give me a break, and I don't mean to be rude, but the industry is changing, you have to change with it.
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        • Profile picture of the author cgcmarketing
          Originally Posted by healymedia View Post


          In the real world, things cost money. If you want a $300 website for your business, fine, the people who charge higher will gladly take you on as a client when that $300 site does nothing for you or doesn't work properly.
          You want to know what the difference between a $300 5 Page HTML Website is and a $3,000 5 Page HTML Website? Price, that's it. I have seen some of my previous customers pay THOUSANDS for a website that looks like it was done in Frontpage with a free Template, and I've seen tons of my friends get websites done by people in the Philippines for a few hundred dollars that blow those thousand dollar websites out of the water.

          If it's a Web Development project, I could understand. When it comes to programming, it get expensive, but for HTML websites, especially simple ones, give me a break guys.
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        • Profile picture of the author DogScout
          Originally Posted by cgcmarketing View Post

          If you won't get out of bed for $300, congratulations, you are obviously doing well in life. I make over $320,000+ per year, and yet, If a local business owner needed a simple website, I may do it for free, or for what it's worth, a few hundred dollars, I would never over-charge them, because guess what? When they start talking about it to their associates and friends and Jim mentions that he got a website that looks even nicer for a lower price by outsourcing, your client is not going to be too happy with you. Meanwhile, because I offered them a reasonable rate, when their friends discuss it, and possibly discuss bigger projects, I will be given numerous referrals.

          Also, answer me this. What would be the difference between your 5 page HTML Website and the 5 Page HTML Website of a High Quality Outsourced Employee? I know some mini-site designers on here who can pump out AMAZING quality Wordpress websites in 2-3 days for a few hundred dollars.

          Give me a break, and I don't mean to be rude, but the industry is changing, you have to change with it.

          When Jim mentions he got a website and someone that is directly responsible to adding $250,000 to his bottom-line last year that no other 'SEO/website builder' would have done for him, he'll be plenty happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tools For IM
    You're going to have a very difficult time, regardless of price, battling others on selling what is now, unfortunately, a commodity purchase. I've been involved with Internet marketing for quite a while now, but have built my business up working in the 'offline' world, as it's referred to now.

    In the eyes of a typical brick and mortar business owner a website purchase is purely price driven. They've been relentlessly hounded with offers of websites and first page rankings and they haven't educated themselves enough to see beyond the fact that a website alone isn't a solution for any of their business pains. As such, the cheapest option will surely be the better option.

    You need to find ways to escape this type of thinking. More importantly, you'll have a hard time building your business by catering to these buyers. They're most commonly the time sucking, scope creepers you've likely heard about.

    If you've spent anytime in the IM world, which it appears you have, you've collected more knowledge and actionable information than most small business owners and website design competitors.

    Don't sell websites, or first page rankings, or e-mail autoresponders. You need to focus on selling complete business solutions where the web serves as the backbone. To do it properly, you need to genuinely understand a business' operations, unique needs, and limitations.

    Create a couple white papers on pressing topics - "How Shifting Consumer Habits Affects Small Business Marketing", etc. Distribute these at networking events, through your website, give them to other businesses that sell complementary services (we get lots of leads through IT/Networking companies, and once the first meeting has been set up, we're converting these at no less than 90%). Get some local speaking gigs at business events, tech events, etc.

    Now, you're no longer comparable to Joe's uncle's cousin's son, and you don't have to concern yourself over price. You'll get clients that appreciate and respect your time, so you're charging more than enough to warrant spending as much time as needed to accomplish the task at hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Hardin
    ToolsforIM -

    Great response. To me the trick is to understate and over-deliver. The other consideration is to take on clients only when you know you can help them. Too many people are approaching this business with promises of taking a business to #1 on GOOGLE. While that is possible to do with geo-specific keywords, there are times when you are not going to be able to beat out a competing website.
    If you take on every client who says yes, you are going to end up with nightmare clients. When you do a good job for a client they refer their friends to you and will often ask you to speak at a business luncheon.
    Statistics say that 62% of all people looking for a product or service now begin their search on-line, not in the Yellow Pages, so these businesses DO benefit from a strong web presence.
    I guess this is like everything else in life. Give them more than you promise and you will eventually be rewarded for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    I respectively disagree. In this world, (at least in my market) 90% of the SEO/website designing companies are filled with people that got degrees in SEO and other stuff 5, 10 or more years ago and they don't believe in continuing education, apparently, because the contracts clients have showed me describe services that today are next to useless.

    I spend thousand or more a month in staying on the cutting edge of what is going on with each of the big 3 search engines and the never ending new resources that become available to help in 'findability' and usability. A $1500 website without an on going monthly amount is not worth my time to even get out of bed for. As a general rule, the website is an incidental and if the monthly amount is large enough, that 'relationship' can be worth a new website to make MY life easier in generating more business for them.

    The object should not be a nicer website or more traffic or more 'hits' (which is a useless statistic, Lol); the object for helping a small business should be taken OFF web sites and on-line SEO etc and put on MAKING THE BUSINESS MORE PROFITABLE.

    For some businesses that does mean an SEO friendly website and on going SEO never ending tweaking and building, but just as many times that means designing an off-line direct marketing campaign, be it postcard, envelope, newsletters, JVs, Newspaper, magazine, and/or whatever is most effective for that niche.

    We are 'Internet' marketers, but in the end, we are MARKETERS. If an off-line campain with be more productive, there is not one person that can ignore that fact, unless they are in denial, lazy or ignorant. Just as a doctor's USP should be 'We do not treat symptoms, we treat people.' A small business internet marketers USP should be 'We don't bring you more traffic and a prettier website, we bring you MORE NET PROFIT.' In any way that is the best way to do. Then you name your price, because whatever you charge, it is a small percentage of the net increase your custom gets. Even 'working 2-3 hours a month on that account'

    (One of my clients, 75% of what I do for him is not internet based in spite of the fact I have built two sites for him and all the crap that goes with it.)

    As to maxing out at ten clients, that is just a matter of time and employee (or contracted employee) management. If you have problems in those areas here are two guides:

    Amazon.com: No B.S. Time Management for Entrepreneurs (NO BS) (9781932156850): Dan Kennedy: Books
    &
    Amazon.com: No B.S. Ruthless Management of People and Profits: The Ultimate, No Holds Barred, Kick Butt, Take No Prisoners Guide to Really Getting Rich (9781599181653): Dan Kennedy: Books

    those and:
    Amazon.com: Outrageous Advertising That's Outrageously Successful: Created for the 99% of Small Business Owners Who Are Dissatisfied with the Results They Get (9780982379301): Bill Glazer, Dan Kennedy: Books

    will make being successful a given.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    CGC,

    If you do work for free or for peanuts, how can you get to 320K? You develop 5000 sites?

    If you sell low, how the hell will you explain a customer that HIS site it's a 2 months, 3 employees, 5K project?

    Just curious.
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    • Profile picture of the author cgcmarketing
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      CGC,

      If you do work for free or for peanuts, how can you get to 320K? You develop 5000 sites?

      If you sell low, how the hell will you explain a customer that HIS site it's a 2 months, 3 employees, 5K project?

      Just curious.
      I'm in the site flipping business as well as online investments, I used to do Web Design, not anymore, BUT, I have a team of outsourced employees who are Philippine. They make websites for $800 a month salary, and their websites are better than a lot that I have seen. I even offer to pay them more than they ask because of the quality of their work. I just paid a VERY reputable overseas designer here on the forums to make me 5 Small Websites for a whopping $175!!! And these websites are AMAZING. 3 are done, and I could not be happier.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Here's a book you might want to read...
    if the same mindset that thinks a website is 'worth $300' makes $32,000 a month, you probably ought to be making over $100,000 with your customers being just as happy or happier!
    (Though if someone says 'website' and you automatically think 5 pages... you are a few years behind what most think of today as a 'website')

    Amazon.com: No B.S. Marketing to the Affluent:...Amazon.com: No B.S. Marketing to the Affluent:...
    (Placebos work better when they cost more. Just an arbitrary fact I ran into.)

    -I do not mean to be contrary, I am a Dan Kennedy fan and believe in his style of marketing. That price is a negligible factor in a clients decision to hire you. That the client who does consider price a major concern, that is a client you do not want to be doing work for or selling to anyway. I believe in firing a customer. I believe in selling results, not commodities and I believe people are human and as susceptible to high value as anyone to the point of discounting cost in favor of ROI and VALUE. I also believe in managing expectations and over-delivering results (Yanik Silver) and I BELIEVE in doing the 'right thing' for my community and that every-time I take a dollar I deliver 20 times that dollar in value.-

    (One of my favorite videos: )
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Wow guys, I leave you all for a few minutes and then you start a huge debate!! Well, too many good points to mention!

    My only problem now, is there seem to be two very different schools of thought. One minute I agree with "Charge 300 bucks, easy to get them on your side and then sell monthy program"....but I also agree with "charge a higer price, which allows you to make a better profit, as long as you add value to the company".....but truthfully, I'm a bit confused by it all.

    Also, on one side you have "this is easy" and on the other "this is much more difficult than people are making it".

    Maybe to clarify, my proginal plan for this model is to make some 'seed money' to feed my Clickbank product - paying for PPC, banners..and the usual stuff. But it's interesting that people are making serious money from this model alone...but it does seem like those making the big money, are more business consultants rather than just creating websites and doing a bit of SEO.

    let the debate continue...and talking of which, I still think the Commodore 64 is better than the spectrum...or do you disagree!!!??? ;-)

    Phil
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Phil, here's a little tip I want to give you and it's something I just learned after many years of doing everything all wrong:

      If you value your work, others will too.

      So figure out the hourly rate you want...Not the hourly rate you think people will pay you...the hourly rate you want. Then figure out how long it will take to do the project. Add on at least 2-3 hours to that time, because there's always going to be back and forth changes, time on the phone with the client, time answering emails, etc...your time is valuable... so charge accordingly.

      Also like DogScout mentioned, don't be afraid to fire a client or turn down a client if you know you're not going to be able to work comfortably with said client or you know that they are going to nickel and dime you to death.

      One more thing: Don't act like you need the client to make you money, act like the client needs you to make them money.

      I wish you every success with your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

      Wow guys, I leave you all for a few minutes and then you start a huge debate!! Well, too many good points to mention!

      My only problem now, is there seem to be two very different schools of thought. One minute I agree with "Charge 300 bucks, easy to get them on your side and then sell monthy program"....but I also agree with "charge a higer price, which allows you to make a better profit, as long as you add value to the company".....but truthfully, I'm a bit confused by it all.

      Also, on one side you have "this is easy" and on the other "this is much more difficult than people are making it".

      Maybe to clarify, my proginal plan for this model is to make some 'seed money' to feed my Clickbank product - paying for PPC, banners..and the usual stuff. But it's interesting that people are making serious money from this model alone...but it does seem like those making the big money, are more business consultants rather than just creating websites and doing a bit of SEO.

      let the debate continue...and talking of which, I still think the Commodore 64 is better than the spectrum...or do you disagree!!!??? ;-)

      Phil
      It is not either charge high or charge low and a monthy.

      no businessman expecting to be in business long would hire someone that charges $300 for a 5 page web site to a long term contract. (unless they are an idiot or think you are.)

      It is charge high, deliver higher and do it month after month.

      With the knowledge in this forum, you are half way home knowledge wise. If you want to know everything, you better start thinking about spending 1+k a month to hang out with people that know what is going on from the inside out for a living. If you are just IMing a business, charge $300 and I hope you sleep at night because you are ripping them off.
      If you are keeping up with what is going on day by day, with folks that make a living doing JUST that, charge high and over deliver, because few know what is going on and if you do, the knowledge is priceless and over delivering is easy. You cannot deliver all you can if you refuse to continue your education forever. Not continuing to learn is NOT 'right mind thinking'.

      If you know what to do, it is not easy, but it is simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author bogwalker
    Hi new to site and still finding my way around here but here is my one cent worth.

    I say it's hard to give a price without knowing all the details, like how much scrip work is invole. I have work on sites with only 5 pages yet the scrips in these little sites were crazy. The scrip alone was worth Hundreds +

    I find it's not how big it is but whats inside doing a doing the work.

    Cheers
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  • The basic website depending on how many pages it is usually comes to about 500 dollars. Depends on depth of website..graphics..seo.. so it all depends really..
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      I definitely fall into the DogScout school of thought on this topic (very nice, well thought out posts-thanks). Not that I think a simple website should always be expensive, but it shouldn't always be cheap either. I agree with you DogScout, when you say the website is incidental. It's much better to see yourself as selling extremely high value solutions (helping businesses make a lot more profit), than as a seller of websites (or worse yet: your time).

      BTW, thanks for the cool resources: the Kern video was great, and I can't wait to read the Kennedy and Glazer books. I'd seen that thread and made a note of AP's impressive successes-I agree it's a must read. I agree with his thought of shifting to being paid on contingency, a classic Jay Abraham model-win-win, and potentially much more lucrative than a flat fee. I'm already a massive Jay Abraham fan, and your posts are quite in line with his insights.

      In marketing to the affluent, it's well known that a low price is a definite deterrent; I doubt any multi-millionaire would ever hire you if you offer to build them a $300 site.

      @Cgmarketing, you say there's no way that you'd charge $2-3K for something that only takes you 4-6 hours to do. This tells me you're stuck in the mindset of selling your time. If all you did was build them a website, with no thought of how to use it to get buyers through the client's front door, then maybe $300 (or less) is fair.

      However, if you are an entreprenuer, a marketing expert and a trusted adviser, rather than simply skilled labor, the hours don't really matter; results are what count. It goes back to the old marketing wisdom: sell benefits, not features. The main benefit you should be selling is a successful sales campaign that brings in actual sales; the features are the various methods that were used: possibly including a radio infomercial, a website, email marketing, and a referral system.

      If you help the client double their business profits from, say $300K to $600K, then the guy charging $200 for a website is not even in the game, and you're the hero, even if they paid you $5K for a simple site, and it took an hour to build. On the other hand, if you spend a week building a $300 site with no thought of marketing strategies, and it looks good but does nothing, they just might ask for a refund.

      The magic question you must always answer in the mind of a prospect or client is "what's in it for me-what is the benefit?" Compare these answers: "a good looking 5 page website for only $300, that a guy spent "X" hours on", and "A massive boost in sales-probably at least 25%". The first one isn't even a benefit, and your hours, no matter how many, or how hard you work, are simply irrelevant.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Great topic, Phil. Let me add another voice to the chorus singing the praise of business value. It's all based on the client's perception of value. The most important part of this is what your offer is compared to in their mind.

    If all you offer is a few web pages, then you have to prove how you are better than the client's neighbor's niece who has the cutest little Myspace. Did you see the dancing rainbows and unicorns and the music that starts playing automatically? You have to work your way up from a buck a page plus a free pizza. Oh the unicorn pictures are free right?

    If you offer a way for the client to gain new customers at a fraction of the cost of their existing advertising budget, keep in touch with old buyers that would be otherwise lost, increase their geographic range and get into new lines of business with minimal startup cost, then you are competing with what a Harvard MBA has to offer. And by the way, you happen to use Web technology in your role as a management and marketing consultant when that's best for your client. Now your pricing can be compared down from a full page newspaper ad and a six figure salary for a trusted advisor. Only $5k? Might be a bargain!

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author ppbiz
    i also charge $2K-$3K and where i can I package it up with some marketing and charge $4000-$6000 for the package set up and charge a monthly fee to keep it going.

    You are adding serious value to these people, it's all in how you position it.

    Good Luck :-)

    Rhiannon

    PS. You might be able to knock up a website for $300 sure- but what kind of value are you placing on your intellectual property? How long has it taken you to learn what you know? How much has it cost you - in both time and money? Also how much are you saving your customers every single year? - Some of ours were paying over $70K in yellow pages before they met with us. Since then they have dropped the yellowpages budget to $22K and have seen an INCREASE in sales.... What do you think that was worth to them?

    IF you are providing more than a simple html website then don't be afraid to charge what you are worth!

    Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

    Hi again

    Sorry, I feel like I'm hitting the forum hard tonight.

    What do you feel is a fair price to charge for a small business site, one with an index, a contact page and an about us page or whatever. I'm don't want to do it as a main source of income, more just to feed the IM engine and make seed money.

    Thanks
    Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Wow, again, thanks all for your replies, really great stuff. By the way, what happens if you charge a big set up fee, and start charing monthly fees, and then the client DOESN'T see a decent increase in sales / revenue?? Also, is there a list of the main things you can do when you get there which would be the main things to increase their bottom line, or will I find that in some of your WSOs?
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    • Profile picture of the author Retziki
      Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

      Wow, again, thanks all for your replies, really great stuff. By the way, what happens if you charge a big set up fee, and start charing monthly fees, and then the client DOESN'T see a decent increase in sales / revenue?? Also, is there a list of the main things you can do when you get there which would be the main things to increase their bottom line, or will I find that in some of your WSOs?
      Hi Phil !
      Regarding your first question. A marketer should be able to back every claim she makes with a guarantee. If you promise someone a massive boost In sales you have to deliver on your promise. Failing to do so is not your clients fault.
      Placing a guarantee is not only a question of morality but (equally important) a means to increase sales.
      It has to do with the concept of "risk reversal" . the lower the risk (for the customer) the easier the sale. I m VERY suspicious with anyone promise me results with no guarantee.
      To paraphrase David Ogilvy : « we deliver or else...»
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by Retziki View Post

        Hi Phil !
        Regarding your first question. A marketer should be able to back every claim she makes with a guarantee. If you promise someone a massive boost In sales you have to deliver on your promise. Failing to do so is not your clients fault.
        Placing a guarantee is not only a question of morality but (equally important) a means to increase sales.
        It has to do with the concept of "risk reversal" . the lower the risk (for the customer) the easier the sale. I m VERY suspicious with anyone promise me results with no guarantee.
        To paraphrase David Ogilvy : « we deliver or else...»
        I agree-risk reversal is of paramount importance for several reasons. First you make more sales, and when someone does buy your service they are less likely to be nervous, high maintenance customers-they know you must succeed if you want to stay afloat. Second, you sleep better at night knowing that you cannot harm someone's business, but only enhance it. Third, your customers will be more likely to bring you referrals knowing that they can also be comfortable the deal won't turn bad and reflect poorly on them.

        You can find so much great information on this forum about how to help offline businesses that you should have no discomfort with the idea that you definitely will be helping people. If you're not sure in the beginning, try doing it on a performance basis-a percent of the increased sales, or even do it for free for the first few customers to get your feet wet-in exchange for honest testimonials, and perhaps some referrals.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    I am a bit late to this topic and don't know whether it has been mentioned but I personally would charge an hourly rate +50% for the first few sites I do as an introductory...

    Once you have 5-10 under your belt and have taken a look at their sales figures which have jumped dramatically after going live you will then be able to take those numbers a command a much higher price.

    No one is going to give a noob who has never done anything like it before and who hasn't got experience a cheque for thousands of pounds with no guarantees lol

    A good domain maker can triple a shops business in a few months, a bad one can destroy it even more efficiently lol :p
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    • Profile picture of the author All Night Cafe
      300.00 to 500.00 with a monthly recurring fee. On the monthly
      fee outsource the work at lower price.

      You said you just wanted to make some extra money, not
      do this for a living.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    If I were going to businesses (assuming I had good person to person negotiation skills) I would offer them the google top 5 for free, with a proviso to collect 20% of extra profits over a term of 3-6 months.

    If you are well known in your area you will already know their trustworthiness and that is the problem, how do you know they won't simply lie to you and pretend you didn't do them any favours?

    Getting the first few sales is the hardest, and probably those you will have to give away for nothing to build a reputation.
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    There are some good ideas there Spearhawke, but I think there could be a danger of promising positions in Google because it can be unpredictable at the best of times??
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Wilhite
    I charged around $400 and above for basic web sites and some content to get the site going. Then I offer them other services, IM, SEO, etc. If they like what you did, then they would be more willing to take you up on your other offers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Riz
    Another avenue to explore is to offer your SEO, Email marketing services, Video Marketing etc etc by JV'ing with current web designers who offer no Internet Marketing services, only web design.

    Your margins may be lower but you have a ready made clientiele to market to.

    Riz
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Hey Riz

    Hmm, that's a good idea, I hadn't thought of that!! I gotta feeling your WSO will be good when it comes out! :-)

    Mary, thanks also. So basically use the website as a front end to other services, so actually you can have that at a low price in order to get them into a sales funnel of sorts.
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticleDirectory
    Set a hourly wage. Figure out how many hours it would take to finish the website. Charge them for that, but be honest. Here is the key, you provide them with support on a monthly basis.

    What we do is charge hourly. Lets say a web site comes out to be $400...we offer our services for $40/month to perform updates, seo, etc almost 100% of the time business get the service, and that's where you make your real money from building web sites, and not the one time fee.

    I hope that this helps
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Thanks 'Article directory' guy, yeah, I even see some people doing the website for free, and then doing a kind of upsell on the monthly service. I guess that works well as they probably feel like they need to reciprocate...good old marketing tricks ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    Partnering with local web designers has worked real well for me. It allowed me to get clients pretty quickly, and I got to get the inside scoop on them from the person i am working with. Pretty neat way to get clients with little effort.

    I started out sending letters to all the designers in my area and followed up with phone calls and then visits. You really only need one to have it be very worthwhile.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Cheers Matt, that's awesome! So in a way, they are doing the work by getting the clients! Cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author smartsites
    I've been successful charging $500. I always use wordpress so they can make changes themselves as well as take advantage of the seo beneifits of wordpress.
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  • Profile picture of the author kswr123
    There is such a thing as a jumped up web-designer. They will charge £7K plus for a smiple site. You can buy a template from templatemonster.com for $60, customise it and sell it on (the website, NOT template) for around $550-$1K

    Mubarak
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    It all depends on your CLIENT-type that you work with.

    If I were to re-approach my clients (assuming from the start) and offer them a $500 - $1,000 website they would have gone with someone else.

    These guys spend THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS per MONTH on radio, billboard, newspaper ads...

    When I quoted them $13,000 just to setup their website, they didnt even blink!


    Took me maybe a week to get done by outsourcing for $300. Paid for my trip to Mexico with the GF in Nov.

    I dunno...if you want to charge $500 per website so be it...I like my ROI better...and the client even referred me to more of their business contacts...so I doubt they feel "ripped" off.

    ~Dexx
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

    Sorry, I feel like I'm hitting the forum hard tonight.
    Phil, even a heavy rainstorm won't overfill the ocean. This forum is a lot bigger than any one person. Plenty of room for everyone's ideas.

    What do you feel is a fair price to charge for a small business site, one with an index, a contact page and an about us page or whatever. I'm don't want to do it as a main source of income, more just to feed the IM engine and make seed money.
    It depends how you position it. Is the web site part of Internet marketing consulting plan? The whole combination could be part of a multi-thousand-dollar project. But if you're competing with the owner's kid who has the Myspace with all the cute rainbows, your site might only be worth the price of a medium pizza.

    One tip: use something like Wordpress that the owner can update on their own. If they can see you aren't forcing them to depend on you for any minor change, they'll more likely trust you when you offer to do other things for them, like set up an autoresponder series.

    Chris
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