RANT: The Dumbest Irrational Mistake That Many "Internet Marketers" Are Making

55 replies
I see many so called Internet Marketers doing irrational things in the interest of saving money (being cheap).

For example, you find a specialized training or service that really fits your needs. It may be exactly what you need to succeed. You sign up for a free trial but then can not resist the urge to cancel before you're billed. You might be right on the cusp of a break-through with this information, but you'd rather not pay a recurring fee - even if it's only $27 to $49.

Instead of giving the program a chance to see if it will work for you, you drop out after 6 days because the 7 day trial is about to expire.

Then you go out and spend $100 that month on shiny "Flavor of the Month" WSOs that each take you in a complete different direction than what's right for you. Or you go to the bar and drop $100 on beers and shots of Tequilla.

Some people will spend money on everything else, but the temptation to drop out before being charged is too strong to resist.

It's completely irrational. You're not getting over, you're cheating yourself. You will never succeed if that's your mentality.

You're not being "slick" by signing up for the trial period and then dropping out. You're not saving any money, you're just wasting your time. You're jumping from one thing to the next without giving yourself a chance.

Now, I'm not saying this about every program out there - I'm talking about the good ones that really fit your needs.

You could be making far more than the small membership fee, but you prefer to be cheap just to avoid any recurring charges.

That's just dumb.
#dumbest #internet marketers #irrational #making #mistake #rant
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Ron, you know we can't scrub out stupid.

    And stupid is thinking that one can get paid to simply read a PDF and then breathe.
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    • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
      Or you go to the bar and drop $100 on beers and shots of Tequilla.
      Have you been following me around again??

      I hear you though, in the end all you can do is provide the best service you can and hope that you can help someone who wants to help themselves.

      The rest will just wander aimlessly in the IM abyss looking for their pot of gold blindfolded.

      keith
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  • Profile picture of the author RobinSkeen
    Maybe it's not being cheap. Maybe it's being out of work, not having a good online income, and simply not being able to afford it.
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    • Profile picture of the author LB
      Originally Posted by RobinSkeen View Post

      Maybe it's not being cheap. Maybe it's being out of work, not having a good online income, and simply not being able to afford it.
      If one can't afford a program then they shouldn't be signing up for 7 day trials...I mean, unless you lost your job within those 7 days or something drastic it's just taking advantage of the program owner.

      I've received refund requests for people (outside of IM) and they want their money back because "rent is due".

      Ron makes a good point.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        But Ron, I love tequila shots!
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    and just maybe some of these bells and whistle type programs are just crap. the only thing worse than making a mistake is sticking with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      and just maybe some of these bells and whistle type programs are just crap. the only thing worse than making a mistake is sticking with it.
      I'm not talking about crap programs, please read the OP.

      I'm also not talking about people who can't afford it. If you know you can't afford it, don't work the system and sign up knowing that you're just going to drop out. Have some ethics.
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      • Profile picture of the author RobinSkeen
        Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

        I'm also not talking about people who can't afford it. If you know you can't afford it, don't work the system and sign up knowing that you're just going to drop out. Have some ethics.
        A trial period is just that - try it out. I've signed up for memberships and it became clear early on that it was not something that was going to work for me. I therefore drop the membership prior to the expiration of the trial period.

        I don't think giving something a "try it and see" is unethical. The gamers, on the other hand, absolutely - but we're always going to have those.
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

        I'm not talking about crap programs, please read the OP..
        Yes sorry I should have explained, 2 un named recent high profile campaigns launched by high level people per say with all of the shiny bits, that looked, smelt and tasted like the real deal, were very disappointing, so it was not the money or commitment that was lacking, rather the over hyped and poorly presented content once we got past the pearly gates.

        There is such a campaign very recent where we can see people walking out kicking the door in disappointment.

        So more in reference to these smoke and mirror high end pretend tubs of lard where we have the good intentions but are led down the yellow brick road of fairy tales.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Great post Ron... I see this all the time and people make up every single excuse in the book not to use the program, like that justifies something..

    If you do not use the current tools that are in front of you that do fit your needs then you will always struggle to make that next $ ...

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    And stupid is thinking that one can get paid to simply read a PDF and then breathe.
    Oh a-freakin'-men.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neromancer
    Guilty.

    But listen to why.

    I have an allotted budget for research so sometimes I join a program for a month or two then leave it so I can duplicate it with my own twist. Once I have the knowledge I need I no longer want to keep paying each month unless it really is a tangible reusable product or I view it as an ongoing education.

    I have made some good money doing this and still allow money for R&D. . .
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    • Profile picture of the author LB
      Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

      Guilty.

      But listen to why.

      I have an allotted budget for research so sometimes I join a program for a month or two then leave it so I can duplicate it with my own twist. Once I have the knowledge I need I no longer want to keep paying each month unless it really is a tangible reusable product or I view it as an ongoing education.

      I have made some good money doing this and still allow money for R&D. . .
      So...because you join programs to rip them off this makes it OK?

      Oh man....
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      • Profile picture of the author ForeignProfessor
        Originally Posted by LB View Post

        So...because you join programs to rip them off this makes it OK?

        Oh man....
        If you join a program that costs $x a month then you should only stay with it as long as it is worth $x a month to you. If Necromancer has tried a program and concluded he won't learn anything more from it after one month, then why not cancel it? If a program has a recurring membership it should be offering something in month 2, month 3, month 4 etc. that it didn't offer in the previous months. If a program is not doing this, then it should be a simple one off charge, not a recurring program. It sounds like this is the kind of program that Necromancer has run into. I don't see this as gaming the system, I see it as a system 'gaming' the users if they are not offering continuing value but are charging recurring fees.

        Actually this seems to be a little off-topic now, since Ron Douglas was referring to *quality* programs which must by definition be offering something which continues to be valuable month after month. If the programs that Necromancer has tried are not offering a reason to continue with them then they must, by definition, be not what Ron is talking about in his OP =)
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        So...because you join programs to rip them off this makes it OK?
        How do you get that?

        If you join a monthly membership and you learn enough to get started on your own - you don't owe anyone a monthly payment if you choose to leave. There is no "ripoff" if a member cancels and uses info given to him during the months he paid.

        True there are some who will sign up, download everything there - and quit. But smart membership owners don't make everything available at one time.

        People will sign up for membership free trials - knowing they can't afford to join. But so what? You don't have to offer 7 day free trials - that's your decision as the seller. Those who try every "free trial" out there are only hurting themselves as they never get very far with anything.

        It may well be an "irrational mistake" but at some point those same people may find a trial program that does appeal to them. As long as the seller is advertising a free trial with no obligation, people will try it and not feel obligated.
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        • Profile picture of the author LB
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          How do you get that?

          If you join a monthly membership and you learn enough to get started on your own - you don't owe anyone a monthly payment if you choose to leave. There is no "ripoff" if a member cancels and uses info given to him during the months he paid.

          True there are some who will sign up, download everything there - and quit. But smart membership owners don't make everything available at one time.

          People will sign up for membership free trials - knowing they can't afford to join. But so what? You don't have to offer 7 day free trials - that's your decision as the seller. Those who try every "free trial" out there are only hurting themselves as they never get very far with anything.

          It may well be an "irrational mistake" but at some point those same people may find a trial program that does appeal to them. As long as the seller is advertising a free trial with no obligation, people will try it and not feel obligated.
          Did you guys read the post I was responding to?

          It says:
          sometimes I join a program for a month or two then leave it so I can duplicate it
          In other words..."I join just long enough to steal their ideas then move on..."

          That's what I was responding to...
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          • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
            Originally Posted by LB View Post

            Did you guys read the post I was responding to?

            It says:

            In other words..."I join just long enough to steal their ideas then move on..."

            That's what I was responding to...
            Well, I gotta say this... there's nothing new under the sun. I mean, REALLY. There really isn't.

            Whatever someone is selling, they learned from someone else, who learned from someone else, who learned from someone else...

            Very few times does someone simply duplicate something without adding their twist on it or improving it. That's capitalism and that's what keeps us progressive and not still driving Model-T's

            Warmly,

            Brandi
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    I'm less concerned with ripping the vendor off and more focused on people ripping themselves off by being quick on the cancel button just because they can. Some people are just habitual quitters and never give anything a chance to work.
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    • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      I'm less concerned with ripping the vendor off and more focused on people ripping themselves off by being quick on the cancel button just because they can. Some people are just habitual quitters and never give anything a chance to work.
      Hey Ron,

      I know what you are saying, but the truth is, most people do not think long term. Instead they look at immediate results. Lol you can line up 100 so called IMers and 99% of them have no vision at all. BUT, that 1 individual that has the long term vision will see the opportunity and sieze it!

      Basically, the others don't even notice because they are short sighted.

      Why that is, I have no idea. I just know that it is, so I catch them one at a time.


      Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Originally Posted by JMissoula View Post

    Problem is determining what's crap and what's not. How can a newbie know whats worth the money?
    Look at the reviews. Email the people who've bought it and ask questions about the product without being intrusive or expecting them to "give away" key information.

    Also, you have an EXCELLENT resource right here! Go check out the Product Reviews forum right here on WF!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    Many people in this thread must be guilty of this
    because they feel the need to "defend themselves".

    Ron spelled it out very clear. If I'm not mistaken

    1. The program is good with useful information for you (Not crap)
    2. You are dropping out just because YOU don't want to
    be charged even though the information may help you grow
    your business.

    Someone help me if I'm wrong, but where is he saying it's wrong
    to drop out if the information is CRAP, or if you can't afford it.

    Which the I can't afford it is BS anyone. Find a way, or why in the hell
    did you sign up anyway.

    I remember when I didn't have a pot to piss in or a door to
    throw it out of and I joined my mentors membership program

    The payments were $97 per month. I didn't have a job
    and I couldn't afford it. But every month I found a way.

    It was so dang good that I started implementing all the
    stuff and low and behold I've become successful with it.

    Had I dropped out before the first month billing I never would
    have gotten a laser focus education on building an internet
    business from the ground up.

    Prior to that I was just getting all free info, Ebooks, and
    the latest products.

    It wasn't until I made a commitment to one thing and
    devoured it that I really became successful.

    So if you're jumping around from product to product, and
    not finding something that resonates with you and stick
    with it til the end.

    Then you are just wasting your time and will never be successful
    until you find a focus and stick with it.

    Daniel
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    • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
      Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post


      Which the I can't afford it is ** anyone. Find a way, or why in the ***
      did you sign up anyway.

      I remember when I didn't have a pot to *** in or a door to
      throw it out of and I joined my mentors membership program

      The payments were $97 per month. I didn't have a job
      and I couldn't afford it. But every month I found a way.
      You know, bad things happen to good people. Sometimes you sign up for something with the BEST intentions and something happens and you TRULY can't afford it.

      I presume you didn't have a bunch of kidlets mouths to feed when you "found" $97 to spend on that program.

      Money begets money. If you have money, it's much easier to make more of it than it is if you have zero to start with.

      Kidlets add a whole other dimension to what one can and cannot afford. If something happened where I was just scraping by, my commitment is to my kidlet's bellies... not to some stranger selling a course.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
        Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

        You know, bad things happen to good people. Sometimes you sign up for something with the BEST intentions and something happens and you TRULY can't afford it.

        I presume you didn't have a bunch of kidlets mouths to feed when you "found" $97 to spend on that program.

        Money begets money. If you have money, it's much easier to make more of it than it is if you have zero to start with.

        Kidlets add a whole other dimension to what one can and cannot afford. If something happened where I was just scraping by, my commitment is to my kidlet's bellies... not to some stranger selling a course.
        Boohoo...

        I grew up in South Central on welfare, Section 8, in the middle
        of the Ghetto. Me, my sister, and my dad.

        He found a way to "feed us", and get through college to earn a PHD
        from USC.

        Do you honestly think I'm going to buy into that "I have kids and no
        hope crap"?

        If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If it's going to change your financial
        situation, FIND a way to afford it.

        Daniel
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Koltai
          Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

          I'm less concerned with ripping the vendor off and more focused on people ripping themselves off by being quick on the cancel button just because they can. Some people are just habitual quitters and never give anything a chance to work.
          This transcends monthly programs, and even internet marketing in general. People with the quitter mindset should not touch IM with a 40 foot pole. If they think it's hard before they're making money, I'd hate to see them the first time Google does a shakeup and their site drops back a few pages and their income drops by XX% over night.

          To be a full time internet marketer, you have to be patient, ambitious, and willing to keep on regardless of how bad things look. You need to be able to balance short-term money with long-term money, and to understand the difference between "making some cash" and "building a business".

          Most people just don't have it in them. Herd mentality discourages it, really.

          Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

          Well, I gotta say this... there's nothing new under the sun. I mean, REALLY. There really isn't.

          Whatever someone is selling, they learned from someone else, who learned from someone else, who learned from someone else...

          Very few times does someone simply duplicate something without adding their twist on it or improving it. That's capitalism and that's what keeps us progressive and not still driving Model-T's

          Warmly,

          Brandi
          This is like saying that it would have been OK if someone had ripped off the design specifications of the Model-T, painted it red, and claimed it as their own design.

          There is a huge difference between releasing a course based on compiling things that you've learned and expanded upon over time vs. joining programs that people put time, money, and effort into and ripping them off wholesale to steal their subscribers.

          One is the model of progression, the other is blatant plagiarism.
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          • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
            Originally Posted by Chris Koltai View Post

            This is like saying that it would have been OK if someone had ripped off the design specifications of the Model-T, painted it red, and claimed it as their own design.

            There is a huge difference between releasing a course based on compiling things that you've learned and expanded upon over time vs. joining programs that people put time, money, and effort into and ripping them off wholesale to steal their subscribers.

            One is the model of progression, the other is blatant plagiarism.
            You missed something I said:

            "Very few times does someone simply duplicate something without adding their twist on it or improving it."

            There's not one original idea in you or anyone else's head here on Warrior Forum, else you wouldn't be here
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
              Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

              You missed something I said:


              There's not one original idea in you or anyone else's head here on Warrior Forum, else you wouldn't be here
              Are you kidding me?

              So the Iphone was not a new idea? Itunes? Myspace? Facebook?

              All of these are old ideas.

              We are creative by nature. There are TONS of new ideas in everyone's
              head.

              I hope you aren't a motivational speaker.

              Daniel
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              • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
                Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                Are you kidding me?

                So the Iphone was not a new idea? Itunes? Myspace? Facebook?

                All of these are old ideas.

                We are creative by nature. There are TONS of new ideas in everyone's
                head.

                I hope you aren't a motivational speaker.

                Daniel
                Nope, I'm not kidding you. Everything comes from something. Everything. There is nothing new under the sun. Something always has to beget something else. You don't have to agree with me. That's the beauty of free will, my friend!!

                I'm Zig Ziglar in disguise, btw
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                • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
                  I agree with Ron to a certain degree...

                  BUT

                  Marketers do it to themselves...

                  "give it a try for seven days"

                  "if you don't like the color of the sky I'll refund you"

                  You can't advertise and make how easy it is to quit one of your selling points and then get offended when people quit.
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              • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
                Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                Are you kidding me?

                So the Iphone was not a new idea? Itunes? Myspace? Facebook?

                All of these are old ideas.

                We are creative by nature. There are TONS of new ideas in everyone's
                head.

                I hope you aren't a motivational speaker.

                Daniel
                The iphone was not a new idea.

                Touch screens existed previously.

                As did processors.

                As did PDA's.

                As did MP3 players.

                As did cell phones.

                As did high quality graphics.

                As did wi-fi.

                As did software that played music.

                As did proprietary music systems.

                And some of those things co-existed before the iPhone.

                They took those things and made something else. They didn't create something out of nothing. Something beget something.
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                • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
                  Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

                  The iphone was not a new idea.

                  Touch screens existed previously.

                  As did processors.

                  As did PDA's.

                  As did MP3 players.

                  As did cell phones.

                  As did high quality graphics.

                  As did wi-fi.

                  As did software that played music.

                  As did proprietary music systems.

                  And some of those things co-existed before the iPhone.

                  They took those things and made something else. They didn't create something out of nothing. Something beget something.
                  Who said they created out of nothing.

                  The iphone was a NEW IDEA. even if it's just taking a lot
                  of other things and putting them together.. That's a new idea.

                  You said no one has new ideas. And I completely disagree.

                  What is your definition of a New Idea? Something that gets created
                  out of thin air?

                  I don't get it.

                  Daniel
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                  • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
                    Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                    Who said they created out of nothing.

                    The iphone was a NEW IDEA. even if it's just taking a lot
                    of other things and putting them together.. That's a new idea.

                    You said no one has new ideas. And I completely disagree.

                    What is your definition of a New Idea? Something that gets created
                    out of thin air?

                    I don't get it.

                    Daniel
                    Ahh, I didn't say that no one has new ideas.

                    Go, re-read
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                    The iphone was a NEW IDEA. even if it's just taking a lot of other things and putting them together.. That's a new idea.
                    So if I join two membership sites and put the information in them together, it's a new idea, isn't it?

                    You can't have it both ways. Either it's absolutely trivial to turn someone else's idea into a brand new idea, which is not at all "ripping them off," or it's really hard to have a new idea - so the membership sites probably didn't have new ideas in the first place, and it still isn't "ripping them off."
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                    • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
                      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                      So if I join two membership sites and put the information in them together, it's a new idea, isn't it?

                      You can't have it both ways. Either it's absolutely trivial to turn someone else's idea into a brand new idea, which is not at all "ripping them off," or it's really hard to have a new idea - so the membership sites probably didn't have new ideas in the first place, and it still isn't "ripping them off."
                      Just use common sense.

                      Daniel
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                      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                        Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                        Just use common sense.
                        Common sense says that if people cancel their membership before the trial is over, they don't think your membership site is worth the money.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
                          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                          Common sense says that if people cancel their membership before the trial is over, they don't think your membership site is worth the money.
                          Great... Has nothing to do with this thread. But I guess
                          you want to give your 2 cents even if it's irrelevant to the
                          discussion.


                          Daniel
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                          • Profile picture of the author reapr
                            Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                            Great... Has nothing to do with this thread. But I guess
                            you want to give your 2 cents even if it's irrelevant to the
                            discussion.


                            Daniel
                            Hey ... thanks for your .02 ...
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                        • Profile picture of the author reapr
                          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                          Common sense says that if people cancel their membership before the trial is over, they don't think your membership site is worth the money.
                          Yup I would be a little bent if I was loosing members to a product I was promoting through my sig.

                          I have noticed thought that many people will abandon a subscription service that may be there best ticket to freedom.

                          Lets face it 98% of people who join a membership end up not moving forward or end up maxing out a cc. Most people do not make it more than 3-4 month in AM or IM becasue they would have a mentality for trading hours for dollars and realize that they actually have to work to make money online.
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                          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                            Originally Posted by reapr View Post

                            Yup I would be a little bent if I was loosing members to a product I was promoting through my sig.
                            As would I. But it seems to me that the answer is to dovetail the product with the membership. Members get some of the product for free a couple weeks before launch, an early discount on the full product a few days before launch, and added stuff that goes well with the product a month after the launch. About two weeks before that added stuff goes on your site, tell your customers it's coming up soon on the membership site.

                            Notice that the customers who jump into your membership site when you say it's "coming soon" will have to wait out the full seven-day trial period before they get it.

                            Think of your payment dates like a wall. Your members have to know that just on the other side of that wall, there's something they want. Otherwise, they won't bother going over the wall.
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                            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Chris Koltai View Post

            This is like saying that it would have been OK if someone had ripped off the design specifications of the Model-T, painted it red, and claimed it as their own design.
            Ever seen an Olds Limited?

            http://reoldsmuseum.org/images/1911OldsLimited.gif

            Okay, so it's white and not red, but still.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
          Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

          Boohoo...

          I grew up in South Central on welfare, Section 8, in the middle
          of the Ghetto. Me, my sister, and my dad.

          He found a way to "feed us", and get through college to earn a PHD
          from USC.

          Do you honestly think I'm going to buy into that "I have kids and no
          hope crap"?

          If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If it's going to change your financial
          situation, FIND a way to afford it.

          Daniel
          You missed a really, really, really important point: something bad happens.

          My dad was a minister. We grew up beans and potatoes and peanut butter. He put himself through college, he did not utilize the welfare system and did it all on his own, while wearing the same pair of pants, day in and day out for many, many years (washed nightly

          It's not that I'm saying "I have kids and no hope", but, it appears you don't have children, personally. And you can't factor children into your equation. Let me ask you this: if you had, say 3 kids at the time you had no job, etc. etc. , could you have "found" the money to put food in their mouths, clothes on their back AND money for your coaching program?

          See, it's not just $97 you're talking about. "Find" $300 (minimum food budget for a family of 4 + monthly coaching program) plus costs for housing, electric, etc. WITHOUT government assistance, no job, etc. You don't have enough plasma for that.

          See, it's easy when you only have you to look out for-- YOU, yourself, can get by with just about anything or nothing. Not so much when you have others to feed

          Again, there are situations that happen.. that are out of your control and you can no longer afford what you once could.

          I think the unemployment rate and the percentage of foreclosures proves that point, exactly.
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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
            Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

            You missed a really, really, really important point: something bad happens.

            My dad was a minister. We grew up beans and potatoes and peanut butter. He put himself through college, he did not utilize the welfare system and did it all on his own, while wearing the same pair of pants, day in and day out for many, many years (washed nightly

            It's not that I'm saying "I have kids and no hope", but, it appears you don't have children, personally. And you can't factor children into your equation. Let me ask you this: if you had, say 3 kids at the time you had no job, etc. etc. , could you have "found" the money to put food in their mouths, clothes on their back AND money for your coaching program?

            See, it's not just $97 you're talking about. "Find" $300 (minimum food budget for a family of 4 + monthly coaching program) plus costs for housing, electric, etc. WITHOUT government assistance, no job, etc. You don't have enough plasma for that.

            See, it's easy when you only have you to look out for-- YOU, yourself, can get by with just about anything or nothing. Not so much when you have others to feed

            Again, there are situations that happen.. that are out of your control and you can no longer afford what you once could.

            I think the unemployment rate and the percentage of foreclosures proves that point, exactly.
            No offense, but I honestly don't care. The point of telling you
            my story wasn't to have a pissing contest on who had it worse.

            The point is if you can't afford something don't buy it.

            This thread had nothing to do with people who sign up for a membership
            program and some way far out of this world thing happens and
            they can't afford to pay.

            How many people honestly sign up for a free trial to a membership
            and within 7 days a financial crisis happens? Maybe 1 or 2 but
            realistically not many.

            So why are we even having this conversation?

            What is your point. "Bad" things happen to people. Ok...

            That had nothing to do with this thread.

            And further more whether I have kids or not is none of your
            business. Again you're making "assumptions" and I'm not putting
            my personal business on this forum.

            In fact you're making quite a few assumptions like you know me or
            anything about me. You don't...

            Have a nice day,
            Daniel
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            • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
              Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

              No offense, but I honestly don't care. The point of telling you
              my story wasn't to have a pissing contest on who had it worse.

              The point is if you can't afford something don't buy it.

              This thread had nothing to do with people who sign up for a membership
              program and some way far out of this world thing happens and
              they can't afford to pay.

              How many people honestly sign up for a free trial to a membership
              and within 7 days a financial crisis happens? Maybe 1 or 2 but
              realistically not many.
              And further more whether I have kids or not is none of your
              business. Again you're making "assumptions" and I'm not putting
              my personal business on this forum.
              It happened to me - OVERNIGHT.

              I'm not asking you for any personal information. My point is, IF you don't have kidlets, you have no clue. If you DID have 3 kidlets during the time, with no job, no pot, no door, etc., and still found a way to pay all of your bills AND your $97 WITHOUT government assistance, Kudos to you. You should put out a WSO- seriously! I'd buy it. I bet a bunch of other people would too!
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              • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
                Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

                It happened to me - OVERNIGHT.

                I'm not asking you for any personal information. My point is, IF you don't have kidlets, you have no clue. If you DID have 3 kidlets during the time, with no job, no pot, no door, etc., and still found a way to pay all of your bills AND your $97 WITHOUT government assistance, Kudos to you. You should put out a WSO- seriously! I'd buy it. I bet a bunch of other people would too!
                So you signed up for a membership program and you
                got hit with a financial crisis overnight and couldn't
                pay the bill and had to cancel?

                If so I feel for you. But honestly my post or the OP had
                nothing to do with your situation.

                It sounds like you went through a hard time and you are
                still very emotional about it (Which I understand) and you
                are reading into things that just aren't there.



                Daniel
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                • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
                  Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

                  So you signed up for a membership program and you
                  got hit with a financial crisis overnight and couldn't
                  pay the bill and had to cancel?

                  If so I feel for you. But honestly my post or the OP had
                  nothing to do with your situation.

                  It sounds like you went through a hard time and you are
                  still very emotional about it (Which I understand) and you
                  are reading into things that just aren't there.



                  Daniel
                  Daniel,

                  It's nothing personal-- really. I REALLY mean that.

                  Emotional? No. Irritated, yes. You can see that by my signature

                  I just get bothered when people speak in complete absolutes, as if nothing outside of their current reality exists, has ever existed or could possibly ever exist.

                  We can't ever expect to make informed decisions or conclusions in the absence of information.

                  Bad things happen to good people. And good things happen to bad people. But, in the end, situations ALWAYS right themselves. Always, always, always, ALWAYS!

                  And yes, I had to cancel a whole slew of stuff... based on the dishonesty of one individual, overnight.

                  Warmly,

                  Brandi
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

              How many people honestly sign up for a free trial to a membership and within 7 days a financial crisis happens? Maybe 1 or 2 but realistically not many.
              And how many people honestly say on the sales page for their membership site that you can easily earn the membership fee from the information you get in the seven day trial?
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              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                And how many people honestly say on the sales page for their membership site that you can easily earn the membership fee from the information you get in the seven day trial?
                Ha! None, of course :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author ForeignProfessor
    I took that to mean that he took the ideas and knowledge he'd learned and put it into action.

    I think you took it to mean that he ripped off the ideas then sold them.

    I don't know which is right =) Perhaps I was being naive with my interpretation of his post. It is certainly a little unclear.
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  • Profile picture of the author matthewd
    Best rant ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Harvey
    AMEN To that Ron..Nobody has the time in 7 or 14 days to evaluate a program, digest the information, implement the program and see any results..

    Might be the beers and shots of Tequila that causes the jumping from program to program..

    Settle in, learn one or two things, implement those things, get good at those two things and then learn one or two more . then repeat
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Ron...great thread man. Not only did you hit the nail on the head with this one you pounded it all the way home! When new marketers get into the habit of jumping on to free trials just because it's a free trial it totally rips time away from them. Same goes when they download a plethora of free eBooks, reports or anything else for that matter. My advice to them echos yours Ron. Which is for them to find one new resource they think will help them then totally spend their time exhausting that resource until they figure out whether or not it's going to work for them. Then and only then should they go looking for their next resource. The key in all this of course is to be very discriminate over which resource to try.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProfessorBob
    One additional aspect to consider. For a newbie, there are many questions that must be answered. A site may be good, and the specific info given may be good, but a newbie is likely to have areas of lack of understanding. A newbie is, after all, just that - someone starting out, likely without a solid technical base, and even more likely without a full understanding of all the terms, techniques, etc. that an experienced IM practitioner will know.

    The newbie then submits questions to help him/her understand what is being presented. My experience with a number of programs is that support ranks somewhere between poor and nil. There are a few good programs out there that do provide good tech support, but plenty that don't. You can't really blame someone for quitting a program where they take your money, but don't provide meaningful tech support to help you fully understand the program and start to implement it.

    The answer is really in the intent of the person. If someone continually drops programs just to avoid paying, then their intent is basically to steal. If, however, the person feels cheated either by the quality of the material offered or by lack of interest on the part of the vendor, then I feel that they are justified in dropping out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does."
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

    Instead of giving the program a chance to see if it will work for you, you drop out after 6 days because the 7 day trial is about to expire.
    And if the program's designed at all sensibly, all the really good stuff doesn't show up until day 8 anyway.

    Days 1 through 7 are the appetiser. They're designed to whet your appetite and keep you interested until you give up the cash. They're designed to be well worth the first month's charge. And then - once you pay that first installment - you start to get far, FAR more than your money's worth.

    So there are two things here. First, the subscriber isn't giving the program a fair shake. Second, the program is not doing its job.

    Every single time I see a charge go through for a membership site, I ask myself "did I get my money's worth last month?" - and if the answer is "no," I go on to ask "whose fault was that?"

    And if it's the site's fault, I cancel.

    Some people are a little more frugal than that, and ask that question just before the charge goes through. And yes, there are some people who didn't want to pay for anything in the first place, and just wanted your free week.

    But even those people can be converted, and you had seven days to do it. If you didn't convert them, it isn't necessarily your fault - check your retention rates - but you could almost certainly have done better.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    I don't think he is referring to the people who sign up and then have a tree fall on their house. I think he is referring to the people who sign up with no intention of paying.

    But as of reading this I am still subscribed to my coaching program so looks like I am one the right track.
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  • Profile picture of the author jhongren
    Hi Ron,

    6 days is too short a time to see if a method works for the person.

    I think for those marketers who are willing to succeed, they would have
    gotten the program at the full price upfront and learn and apply.

    This draws a line between those who are going to succeed and those
    who are just shopping around for "success" and hopefully, buying them
    at a discounted price.

    John
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