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The psychology of a "sale"

by Bkelly301
76 replies
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, because it doesn't make any logical sense to me. However, I know it to be true...

People love sales.

For the last 5 years I have ran a 4-day sale on the weekend of Black Friday, Memorial day, and labor day weekend.

The regular cost of my product used to be $59. When I would run a sale, I'd send out a 20% coupon code to my email list, which would bring the price down to $45. I would alway make a killing during the sale. $59 was too much, but $45 was no problem...

I raised the price of my product about 2 years ago to $69. I still do the same 20% coupon code thing, which brings the price down to $55. Again, I make a killing when I run this sale...

The product that I offer is ridiculously cheap. Everyone that buys it from me agrees. People tell me all the time that they feel like they are stealing from me because of the low price I charge. For a one-time fee, I offer what other competitor sites sell spread out over 50 different "courses". My site is the "one stop shop". People are ecstatic when they find me.

But $69 is just too much...

Take $14 off that price though...and people go crazy. The sales literally do not stop throughout the weekend.

2 years ago $59 was too much as the "regular price", but knock $14 off...everyone wants to buy all of a sudden.

The sale price now ($55) is about the same as what the regular price used to be ($59)...but they buy like crazy during the sale.

People obviously want what I am selling. I have a reputation in my niche. I wouldn't make so many sales if people didn't at least have some level of interest in what I'm selling....

But $69 is too much for them. They are interested, but not $69 interested.

They will gladly spend $55 though. They are $55 interested...

After this sale, I will be raising my everyday price to either $79 or $89. I fully expect the same thing to happen...

When I run a sale next time, the "sale price" will be about the same as my current everyday price. I have no doubt in my mind that once labor day weekend comes in September, and I shoot out an email saying "hey my product is on sale for $65 if you use this coupon code"...people will buy like crazy.

$79 will be too much, but $65 will be no problem.

My point is that the actual number doesn't seem to matter. It's the fact that they are getting a coupon code. People are more interested in the saving of the $14, then they are with the spending of $45, $55, $65 or whatever...

This makes ZERO sense to me. I have never once walked out of a store thinking "wow, I just saved $130".

No. I have always thought "I just spent $450 today".

I buy stuff when I need or want the stuff. If it coincidentally happens to be on sale, cool. If not, whatever. I'm still buying anyway because I need or want it.

Apparently the majority of consumers do not think that way though. They buy things to "save money".

I have a better way to "save money". I just don't buy stuff. But that's just me though.

I'm PRETTY sure that a large percentage of these people that buy from me when I run a sale probably don't even end up using my product at all. Actually, some people have even told me this...

This means that some people literally only bought from me because the product was on sale. They weren't concerned with using the product. They didn't really want it enough to buy it throughout the year at the regular cost, but as soon as you knock that $14 off...they just have to have it.

I wonder what would happen if I made my regular price $89, and my sale price $75?

My guess is that nothing would change much at all.

This phenomenon is so weird. I understand it, but it makes zero sense to me personally.

I'm sure you guys have noticed this too if you've been into IM for a while now. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this!
#psychology #sale
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Perception matters. Once I was looking to buy something, don't remember what. But I remember three things:
    1 place wanted $605 for it,
    1 place wanted $599,
    I thought 605 was ridiculously expensive but $599 was a steal,
    later that day I had a conversation with myself in which I marvelled at myself: how on earth could I think that 6 dollars was a significant difference when talking $600.

    I am guessing your list is large enough, so why not split your offer:

    20% off
    20% off but tell them as soon as the offer ends, prices will go up to 69
    19.67% off.

    From my experience: 16.33% got more attention than 20%, far more than 15, less than 21%. 21% off got more attention than 20, out of proportion more, same as 16.33.

    All those number worked better in the context of: it is my anniversary, I am celebrating by giving a gift to my customers, replicating a custom in 1st through 3rd grade: on your birthday, parents gave kids a bag of candies to give to give their classmates: each kid got one candy. So each of yous gets ine coupon.

    In other words, if there is a good, at least cute or funny reason behind the sale.

    Also, when you raise your prices, why not test: 69, 67, 79, 77? And such. You might find no push-back till you reach 100 or 130.

    The way people react to money for a product is not that predictable. Pay attention to yourself... You buy when you need or want, but you might be passing judgments on the prices.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    As I'm sure you know, logic plays little part in the sales process. But I wonder if you've also trained your prospects to wait for the next sale:

    For the last 5 years I have ran a 4-day sale on the weekend of Black Friday, Memorial day, and labor day weekend....<snip>....I have no doubt in my mind that once labor day weekend comes in September, and I shoot out an email saying "hey my product is on sale for $65 if you use this coupon code"...people will buy like crazy.
    If I were on your mailing list and wanted to buy the product - knowing you hold regular sales at least 3 times a year - why wouldn't I wait for the next one and get the discount? From what I understand, your course is evergreen, so not especially time sensitive.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      As I'm sure you know, logic plays little part in the sales process. But I wonder if you've also trained your prospects to wait for the next sale:

      If I were on your mailing list and wanted to buy the product - knowing you hold regular sales at least 3 times a year - why wouldn't I wait for the next one and get the discount? From what I understand, your course is evergreen, so not especially time sensitive.
      I honestly don't think that many people know to expect an upcoming sale.

      Once people buy the product, they are moved from the prospect list to the buyers list.

      If I have "trained" the prospects, that would mean that they have been on the "prospect list" for several years, turning down sale after sale after sale...for years.

      Maybe if I was selling 50 different courses, then it would make sense to wait for sales.

      However, when I'm selling one single product???

      It's possible that there are some people that have joined my free membership 3 years ago, watched the site continuously grow over time, refuse to pay the one-time fee upgrade, pass up multiple sales offers for years....then finally decide to pull the trigger after many years.

      However, I don't think that's the case. From my understanding people come to my site and make the decision to buy what I'm selling pretty quickly.

      For those that choose to not buy, it's the $14 off sale that tips the scales for them.

      I'm guessing that most people aren't waiting for multiple "$14 off sales" to be presented to them over the course of several years before finally pulling the trigger.

      If I was really wanting to learn how to play the piano, I would purchase the course(s) that I wanted pretty quickly. I wouldn't patiently watch the price fluctuate by +/- $15 over the course of several years...I would just buy the course that I wanted so I could get the result that I wanted right then and there.

      Again, I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think that this is the case though!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Humans are really bad at assessing the value of something, but really good at making comparisons.

    Might be a factor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    You sound frustrated that people love a sale. People are fickle,
    it is what it is.

    Estee Lauder sent out an email for a BOGO a couple of weeks ago.
    It was for night serum, buy one for $105 get the second one free.
    So I went to the site and I thought I'd buy the $200 size and get the
    $105 size for free, but when I went to checkout, the system said that
    the freebie offer was only valid with the purchase of the $105 item.
    So what did I do. Since I wanted the $200 size, I bought the $105
    size as well so that I could get the freebie, and then I added a bottle
    of Cinnabar perfume. With sales tax and overnight shipping I spent
    $401.63 on stuff I did not even need since I had some already, plus
    countless other night, wrinkle and beauty creams. Like most women,
    I love my lotions and potions. And I got the freebie.

    They say people will drive across town to save 50¢ on a loaf of bread
    but think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on an appliance or
    a television. That doesn't even make sense but that's what we do.

    Anyway, you never know about people and what motivates them to
    buy stuff, especially things they don't really need with their disposable
    income. Keep experimenting with raising your prices and running your
    sales and see what happens. That's what I would do. If they balk you
    can always lower your prices again. Or have another sale.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

      You sound frustrated that people love a sale. People are fickle,
      it is what it is.
      You make good points!

      Also, I always thought you were a guy before. I glanced over your reply and was confused because a guy was talking about perfume. After re-reading, I get it now. Haha.

      It frustrates me because I have THE BEST product of it's kind in my niche for an absolute STEAL.

      It frustrates me that it takes a silly $14 off sale to get people to pull the trigger.

      It's like if someone was selling a potion that granted you all the knowledge and power in the world for $50...but I wasn't willing to buy it until they ran a 10% off sale. That would be silly.

      That's how I feel when these people don't buy what I'm selling. I'm offering the creme de la creme, the best of the best, a goldmine of information....but $69 is too much. However give them a coupon, and it's no longer too much!!

      Yes, it does frustrate me. However, that won't stop me from continuously striving to improve!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Monetize
        Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

        Also, I always thought you were a guy before. I glanced over your reply and was confused because a guy was talking about perfume. After re-reading, I get it now. Haha.

        I gathered that since you have referred to me as man and bro or
        whatever. It's all good. Whenever I get PM'd here people address
        me as Sir so I am used to it. There are probably other women on
        here that some of us assume are men. It's natural to think that IM
        is comprised of mostly men but it's an equal opportunity industry.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    It frustrates me that it takes a silly $14 off sale to get people to pull the trigger.

    Now I am confused.


    Are you saying that your product only sells during a sale? Or that sales increase during the sale?


    My understanding from previous threads is that you have a rather reliable sales pattern at the current price....and the POINT of a sale is to sell 'more'. If you ONLY sell at sale price, different topic altogether.


    The purpose of running a 'sale price' is to attract buyers who might not buy at full price - or who like a 'deal'. If you sell to 10 people at $55 - and those people would NOT have purchased at $69....you are $550 richer. You are not 'losing $14' - you are gaining $55!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      The purpose of running a 'sale price' is to attract buyers who might not buy at full price - or who like a 'deal'. If you sell to 10 people at $55 - and those people would NOT have purchased at $69....you are $550 richer. You are not 'losing $14' - you are gaining $55!
      This may not make sense to a lot of people, but my primary drive is not about making money. I genuinely want people to buy my product, use my product, benefit from my product and realize that they have struck gold by discovering my product.

      My product is THE BEST, and I know that once people buy my product, they will finally have found what they have been searching for. It's THE BEST. Nothing even comes close.

      Trust me, I'm not complaining about making sales. It is awesome!!

      And yes, I do make sales on a regular basis even without the sale price.

      It just frustrates me that I am essentially selling a "Lamborghini Diablo" for $69, but people won't buy it until it's $14 cheaper. It almost feels like a slap in the face.

      I'm NOT complaining about making money. I love what I do. I love running these sales because I predictably make more money than usual. That aspect is great.

      That's not what this is about...

      I'm simply annoyed at the fact that I KNOW that I hold the key to the kingdom for MILLIONS of people. I KNOW that their lives will be changed once they buy my product. I KNOW that they are endlessly searching for the "perfect product". I follow the groups where these people hang out. I know the frustrations that people have. I know what my competition is selling.

      I have THE THING that these people need...

      But they don't buy it unless it's on sale for $14 cheaper than the listed price.

      My frustrations stem from the fact that I have not effectively been able to communicate the value of what I am offering. All of the work that I do in making sales videos, sales pages, the "freebies"....None of that stuff is able to tip the scales for them.

      But a stupid $14 off does the trick...

      This leads me to believe that the "perceived value" of my product is equivalent to a small 10-video course that is designed as a quick money grab, which is the case for most of the rest of the competition in my niche.

      My product is in reality the equivalent of 300, 10-video courses given to them all at once, once they pay the one-time fee.

      My product is so damn good...but the people don't know how good it is until they buy it, THEN they realize that they have struck gold.

      The fact that it takes a silly $14 sale to persuade people into buying what I have spent the last 6 years working on frustrates me.

      It's about much more than just making money.

      If I had one single "ultimate goal" behind everything that I do, it would be for my product to gain the recognition that I believe it deserves amongst my entire niche. I am shooting for the top.

      The fact that it takes a mere $14 off to persuade people into making the decision to buy my product tells me that I am VERY FAR from my ultimate goal.

      This leads me to believe that some of these things are what's standing in my way:
      • My product is priced WAY WAY WAY too low
      • My sales copy isn't that great
      • I give too much away for free

      I guess for a "normal person", making a bunch of sales in a single weekend would be considered to be a "win". And yes, I am happy about that aspect of it. Who doesn't like money??

      But for me...

      This simply tells me that I am doing something MAJORLY WRONG somewhere else. The "perceived value" of my product is all wrong. THAT is what I need to fix.

      Hopefully this makes sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
        Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

        This simply tells me that I am doing something MAJORLY WRONG somewhere else. The "perceived value" of my product is all wrong. THAT is what I need to fix.
        .
        You have a mammoth training program that you yourself claim is the best in the industry, in category. You are selling this cancer cure for $69. You offer discounts that drive that price down further. And you are surprised you are attracting price shoppers?

        What you are doing is positioning yourself as a used car salesman. Even a $69 Ferrari looks dodgy at that price.

        You said it yourself. The perceived value of your product is all wrong. Well of course it is. The perceived value of your product is that it isn't valuable at all. Why would a cure for cancer be sold at such a cheap price, and with discounts?

        My guess is that you believe in your product. What you don't believe in, is yourself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
          Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

          My guess is that you believe in your product. What you don't believe in, is yourself.
          I hear ya man. I've been stuck in a bit of a dilemma about this for the past few years though. I'm wondering what you would suggest to do. Your advice is always great!

          I kinda dug myself into this hole, and I'm not exactly sure how to get out of it...

          You see, I have found something that works. This is my full-time living which I have been using to support a family, pay the bills, etc.

          I make a few sales per day (2 to 4 sales) on average, and I make a bunch of sales during one of these 20% off promotions.

          When someone buys my product, they usually have lower expectations than what they received in return. It's only after they have paid for access that they find out that they got the deal of a lifetime. Of course this is the result of "selling a Ferrari for $69"...

          However, how do I dig myself out of this "comfort zone"?

          I've tried to jack up the price a few times, but it caused a MAJOR plummet in sales as a result.

          I believe that the product should be priced around $299 to $499. I've tried recurring pricing before, but that usually ends in a bit of a disaster).

          If I was getting $300 every sale, I'd feel that it was accurately priced.

          The problem is that every time I try to do a major jump in price like that, sales plummet like crazy.

          Considering that this is my primary source of income, I have to be extremely careful with any changes that I make. If this was just a side hustle, it wouldn't matter as much.

          After this memorial day sale is over, I was planning on upping the price to $79, since that isn't too drastic. However it's still "a Ferrari priced like a Ford Taurus"...

          I'm wondering what you would suggest. I'd love to hear it!!

          Thanks in advance!
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

          You have a mammoth training program that you yourself claim is the best in the industry, in category. You are selling this cancer cure for $69. You offer discounts that drive that price down further. And you are surprised you are attracting price shoppers?

          What you are doing is positioning yourself as a used car salesman. Even a $69 Ferrari looks dodgy at that price.

          You said it yourself. The perceived value of your product is all wrong. Well of course it is. The perceived value of your product is that it isn't valuable at all. Why would a cure for cancer be sold at such a cheap price, and with discounts?

          My guess is that you believe in your product. What you don't believe in, is yourself.
          it has been a while but i fully agree with what you said ..

          i have not bought an info product in years and it was common for people to add freebies to a sub 100 dollar product that where supposedly worth thousands of dollars ..

          i have to manipulate what Claude said people who build wealth have a different system of valuing things than than people who do not ..

          so people buying sub 100 dollar products ..need to actually be told what is wrong with the product ..if the price tag is 69 dollars but the person selling it is claiming the value is much higher in the hundreds of dollars or more range ..

          so he isn't doing the part to explain what is wrong with the product to justify the bargain price
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          • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
            Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

            it has been a while but i fully agree with what you said ..

            i have not bought an info product in years and it was common for people to add freebies to a sub 100 dollar product that where supposedly worth thousands of dollars ..

            i have to manipulate what Claude said people who build wealth have a different system of valuing things than than people who do not ..

            so people buying sub 100 dollar products ..need to actually be told what is wrong with the product ..if the price tag is 69 dollars but the person selling it is claiming the value is much higher in the hundreds of dollars or more range ..

            so he isn't doing the part to explain what is wrong with the product to justify the bargain price
            I'm not having a problem making sales...I make plenty of sales.

            My dilemma is how to raise the price of the product to match it's true value??

            It's priced way too low, but I have become dependent on the income that I make from undercutting my true worth.

            I'm just wondering how to fix that!
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

              I'm not having a problem making sales...I make plenty of sales.

              My dilemma is how to raise the price of the product to match it's true value??

              It's priced way too low, but I have become dependent on the income that I make from undercutting my true worth.

              I'm just wondering how to fix that!
              what if their is nothing to fix you have a reliable stream of income ..certainly you can repackage the same information into a product with a higher price point while keeping the stream of income you have ..you can go old school and format itso you canprintit out into a three ring binder and mail it to people and charge hundreds of dollars
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

              I'm not having a problem making sales...I make plenty of sales.

              My dilemma is how to raise the price of the product to match it's true value??

              It's priced way too low, but I have become dependent on the income that I make from undercutting my true worth.

              I'm just wondering how to fix that!
              I get it now.

              Change the offer. By that I mean add to the offer, and increase the price. Make it a special deal to your list.

              That way, if they buy less than before, you know your price is a bit too high. If you make sales, and the income is more than before, raise the price again in the next offer, and add something else to the offer. Just make sure the things you add, add value and are consistent with he rest of the offer.

              By adding value, when you increase your price, you aren't destroying your price consistency, if the higher price doesn't work.
              Another way to test price is simply offer the same thing at a higher price...to a new list, or a new set of prospects attracted by PPC ads.

              When I was selling vacuum cleaners in people's homes, I was working alone, and thought it would be a good time to price test (price testing is stressful on reps, so I wouldn't do it with my own reps).


              We were selling a vacuum cleaner for $999. I raised my price to $1.299, then $1,499, then $1,599, then $1,1799.

              My sales were consistent until I got to $1,799. They went from closing 45% to less than 15%, and my profit suffered. So I just kept the price at $1,599. It gave me the most profit per week, per presentation. Which is far more important than the most profit per individual sale.

              While I was price testing , I couldn't ask for referrals, because they would be getting a different price. And I price tested in different towns, so these customers wouldn't meet each other.

              But it was highly profitable.

              So I would increase your price to $99, then $129, then $159, then $199. and see if the net profit per offering increases or decreases. Stick with the highest price that gives you the most net profit. That's the most net profit per e-mail (or however you make contact), not most profit per individual sale.


              Your sale can also just be adding something for free (whether you write it or buy it). A discount of $1 costs you a dollar. A free gift costs you nothing, or almost nothing.

              My best, most profitable sales are just giving something away for "free" with the main purchase. You can give a high retail value, and it costs very little.


              Hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

    I
    My point is that the actual number doesn't seem to matter. It's the fact that they are getting a coupon code. People are more interested in the saving of the $14, then they are with the spending of $45, $55, $65 or whatever...

    This makes ZERO sense to me. I have never once walked out of a store thinking "wow, I just saved $130".
    A few things.

    You are not your customer. Marketers and salespeople (real salespeople) don't think like consumers. If you expect your customers to think like you do. You'll lose.

    And you are right, it isn't the price, it's the offer. If you have a time limit and a discount (especially a discount where they have to check a box or fill out a form) you trigger a fear of loss.

    People want...

    What they think everyone else wants.
    What they can't have, or think is in very limited supply.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      A few things.

      You are not your customer. Marketers and salespeople (real salespeople) don't think like consumers. If you expect your customers to think like you do. You'll lose.

      And you are right, it isn't the price, it's the offer. If you have a time limit and a discount (especially a discount where they have to check a box or fill out a form) you trigger a fear of loss.

      People want...

      What they think everyone else wants.
      What they can't have, or think is in very limited supply.
      Bkelly, definitely come on down to the Offline section and have a chat. The level of discussion about sales will be much deeper than you've seen before. Claude here is a regular there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        Bkelly, definitely come on down to the Offline section and have a chat. The level of discussion about sales will be much deeper than you've seen before.

        So deep, you may fall for your own reflection.


        Jus' wanna ask how many times you rewrote the offah.


        If'n you gaht price variables orbitin' around the same product/pitch combo, mebbe your next viable tweakable is what you sayin' 'bout what your product got in its whammyhole gonna excite an' fulfil all.


        Mebbe you could split test a loodicroosly high end reframe an' see what happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author CruxisKnight
    I honestly do the same thing when I buy courses on udemy. I buy just because they are on sale at 90% off during those times because I feel I am going to lose out on the deal. I hardly go through the courses I buy though. But the idea that I have them at a deal gave a feeling of accomplishment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
    Everyone wants to feel they got a good deal!

    It's a bigger dopamine hit if you buy something on sale.

    Wonder if there is a difference in product usage rates for those buying on sale vs normal price.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    As someone that has worked on marketing campaigns for some of the biggest companies in the world...and having 40 years experience in copywriting, I can tell you your copy is weak...

    Someone having a stroke isn't looking for a discount.

    A person in the ER having a heart attack isn't on google looking for a way to save on medicine.

    Your copy is weak and you need to make it stronger.

    You haven't built any urgency into your offer...
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      As someone that has worked on marketing campaigns for some of the biggest companies in the world...and having 40 years experience in copywriting, I can tell you your copy is weak...

      Someone having a stroke isn't looking for a discount.

      A person in the ER having a heart attack isn't on google looking for a way to save on medicine.

      Your copy is weak and you need to make it stronger.

      You haven't built any urgency into your offer...
      How can I do that? I'm in the music niche. How do I create this urgency you're talking about?
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

        How can I do that? I'm in the music niche. How do I create this urgency you're talking about?
        The easy answer would be to say I just don't know enough about what you're offering...

        but, at the expense of sounding generic, I'll say this:

        First, I wouldn't recommend ever giving a discount without the buyer giving back something in return.

        Discounts can work in your favor if you do them right.

        "Hey Bob, since you're awesome we know you have some awesome friends. Why not share this awesome offer with them for a 20% discount? Awesome."

        Using referrals will expand your reach and save you bucks on advertising. Discounts should always work in your favor. There's a ton of software out there you can use...it more than pays for itself if you use it properly.

        Now...

        start thinking like this...

        every offer you do is a campaign. Campaigns have a life expectancy and I'll get to that in a minute.

        I see website after website that will have an offer and it never changes. It's always the same. Big mistake.

        So let's say you run a burger joint. Your website has an offer of buy a big burger and get one free. Eventually, the offer gets boring and everybody has seen it and everybody glances over it and moves on. Plus, having the same offer for months (uuuggghhh), customers start to think the whole thing is getting old so they're certain you're ready to give in and give it away.

        It's hard to predict when a campaign wears out, but it does. You could decide to change it to buy a burger and get two free burgers, but then it cuts into your profits and sets up your customers to expect more and more free burgers in the future.

        So, you decide to do a new campaign and offer a super-duper double-stacked cheeseburger. You now have a new campaign. This new super-duper double-stacked cheeseburger is probably just the same as your regular burger, but twice the meat.

        Now, your customers are interested in this new stuff. You run this campaign until it's played out and starts to fizzle...then you introduce the triple threat baconator. Now you've got a new campaign and you start the process over and excite customers.

        I'm using the burger joint as a simple example.

        If you're doing something like music lessons, you can use the burger joint example.

        Why do people want to learn how to play the piano?

        A. They love music

        B. It calms them

        C. They want to be a pop star

        D. They want to impress the opposite sex

        just quick examples (because I'm clueless and haven't taken the time to research it). Then you can break it down into different groups:

        A. Kids

        B. Old people (like me)

        C. College kids

        D. Religious people

        just more quick examples to use as a new campaign.

        Every single campaign you do has got to have a super-duper big plot behind it. There's a guy on the internet that is making millions by calling it "the big idea". He's just refurbishing something we all knew a long time ago, but he's making it work in his favor, so kudos to him.

        Anyways, you want to have an idea so big and so radical and so heart-stopping that (as Clayton said) people sit up in their bed at 2 a.m. in a cold sweat and tell themselves they have to get your product right now.

        But, for the sake of this post, pretend you decide to go with the "pop star" thing.

        You do an offer that talks about greed and fame and big cars and fancy houses...

        That's one campaign and you run it until it begins to lag...

        then...kids. Parents want little Bobby to learn music...and you go into the whole thing.

        So, my point is this...

        urgency is not telling people that you only have 100 available or that the offer ends on the second Tuesday of next week. Urgency is building a campaign that creates a desire in people to grab the offer right now because of the benefits that await them, and the nagging realization that every minute they waste not getting your offer keeps them from experiencing all the great benefits you offer.

        When the campaign is losing momentum (or anytime actually) you can experiment with discounts...but like I said previously, always use it to your benefit.

        There's so much about this topic to put into a post...but I hope you start to understand the points I'm trying to make.

        1. If you're having to do discounts all the time then your campaign may be reaching its life expectancy and needs to change

        2. Never keep one campaign too long

        3. Be creative. The bold, brave and creative thinkers are winning the customers.

        I have no idea of your advertising budget or the number of staff you have working for you...but I will say that you can take the methods used by large companies and discover some nuggets that will work for you on whatever level you're at.

        I wish you the best in what you're doing
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Bkelly301, who buys from you? If you do not know, survey them. Yes, not everybody will respond, but a lot of them will. Enough that you can create specific campaigns that have built-in urgency based on why people buy from you.


    For some, music is a hobby. For a few, it's a profession or a desired profession.


    All of them want to get better at playing the guitar... (If I remember correctly, you sell courses on how to play guitar better.)


    They all have one main reason for doing it. If you know that reason, add time to it, you've got urgency.


    The urgency level is going to be different for different reasons. Someone who wants to join a band (even one that only plays in front of family members) vs someone who wants to relax whilst feeling they accomplish something vs someone who wants to do it to maintain mental acuity...



    Do not dismiss people's reasons... Respond to them. Once upon a time, I spend money on chess things.. books. Just because I wanted to see how much I can improve in 6 months. Not a lot of money, it's true. But, still, I spent, several times.


    My reason was important to me at that time.



    That leads me to this: you keep looking at price in relation to your values not in relation to their reasons.


    Do you know Dan Kennedy? The millionaire maker marketer? He's retired now.


    When I came across him the first time, he had a bunch of products based on people's reason intensity:


    books that sold from 5.95 to 12.95 a piece
    a monthly newsletter that cost $49
    some dvd's that were free
    email messages that were free
    dvd that cost 12.99
    dvd sets that cost anywhere from 50 to 250 (if I remember correctly)
    seminars that cost from 900 to 100,000 (he had like 5 levels).
    The 100,000 had 7 in attendance, he once said in one of his dvd's...



    Each of the products were trying (not by selling but by impressing the buyer through the quality of the information) to get people to buy, at the very least, the next level product.


    You might not have that kind of variety, but you probably have 3 or 4 levels of desire... You could either create different products for each desire level or create a funnel where people self-select themselves and you only sell to the ones at the highest level... at a high (much higher than now) price.


    Or, you might just want to not look at your product as you yet still raise your price... just not high enough to lose sales.


    The only way to do it is to test. You can test now, but you would get to sell at a higher price without losing sales if you build urgency based on their reason for buying.



    Think about it: I spent $50 on chess products just so I could find out how much I could improve within 6 months at a time when $50 could have bought me 24 Burger King Whopper meals or 33 movie tickets at the local theater. Yes, I'm ancient.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
    I'm going to have to just bookmark this thread. There is some next-level info being given out here in this thread.

    I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Jackson
    Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, because it doesn't make any logical sense to me. However, I know it to be true...

    People love sales.

    For the last 5 years I have ran a 4-day sale on the weekend of Black Friday, Memorial day, and labor day weekend.

    The regular cost of my product used to be $59. When I would run a sale, I'd send out a 20% coupon code to my email list, which would bring the price down to $45. I would alway make a killing during the sale. $59 was too much, but $45 was no problem...

    I raised the price of my product about 2 years ago to $69. I still do the same 20% coupon code thing, which brings the price down to $55. Again, I make a killing when I run this sale...

    The product that I offer is ridiculously cheap. Everyone that buys it from me agrees. People tell me all the time that they feel like they are stealing from me because of the low price I charge. For a one-time fee, I offer what other competitor sites sell spread out over 50 different "courses". My site is the "one stop shop". People are ecstatic when they find me.

    But $69 is just too much...

    Take $14 off that price though...and people go crazy. The sales literally do not stop throughout the weekend.

    2 years ago $59 was too much as the "regular price", but knock $14 off...everyone wants to buy all of a sudden.

    The sale price now ($55) is about the same as what the regular price used to be ($59)...but they buy like crazy during the sale.

    People obviously want what I am selling. I have a reputation in my niche. I wouldn't make so many sales if people didn't at least have some level of interest in what I'm selling....

    But $69 is too much for them. They are interested, but not $69 interested.

    They will gladly spend $55 though. They are $55 interested...

    After this sale, I will be raising my everyday price to either $79 or $89. I fully expect the same thing to happen...

    When I run a sale next time, the "sale price" will be about the same as my current everyday price. I have no doubt in my mind that once labor day weekend comes in September, and I shoot out an email saying "hey my product is on sale for $65 if you use this coupon code"...people will buy like crazy.

    $79 will be too much, but $65 will be no problem.

    My point is that the actual number doesn't seem to matter. It's the fact that they are getting a coupon code. People are more interested in the saving of the $14, then they are with the spending of $45, $55, $65 or whatever...

    This makes ZERO sense to me. I have never once walked out of a store thinking "wow, I just saved $130".

    No. I have always thought "I just spent $450 today".

    I buy stuff when I need or want the stuff. If it coincidentally happens to be on sale, cool. If not, whatever. I'm still buying anyway because I need or want it.

    Apparently the majority of consumers do not think that way though. They buy things to "save money".

    I have a better way to "save money". I just don't buy stuff. But that's just me though.

    I'm PRETTY sure that a large percentage of these people that buy from me when I run a sale probably don't even end up using my product at all. Actually, some people have even told me this...

    This means that some people literally only bought from me because the product was on sale. They weren't concerned with using the product. They didn't really want it enough to buy it throughout the year at the regular cost, but as soon as you knock that $14 off...they just have to have it.

    I wonder what would happen if I made my regular price $89, and my sale price $75?

    My guess is that nothing would change much at all.

    This phenomenon is so weird. I understand it, but it makes zero sense to me personally.

    I'm sure you guys have noticed this too if you've been into IM for a while now. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this!
    People respond differently at different times, as I have found in my list. I don't even try and second-guess subscriber's mindsets now... too challenging!
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  • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
    Your model needs to change. You created the model. Maybe your mindset needs to change.

    Where's the scale? If I pay you $69, $99, $159 for the world; what else can you get me to buy from you? Is the model not limiting?

    You have customers who pay no problem. You have price shoppers who wait for a discount. Ditch the price shoppers and focus on the 'Pareto' customers, and figure out how to scale from that.

    You already know it by now that increasing your prices still leaves you with the problem of scale. So you either build a membership program or create a structured product line focusing on taking people through the stages of learning guitar.

    Or just give everything away for free and tie the content into affiliate offers that enhance their learning.

    I think it's safe to say that raising your prices is just putting your head in the sand and continuing with the very model that has caused you problems already. You did well. You created a nice income stream. It's now time to put on your big boy pants, evolve the model for scale... and take yourself and your business to the next phase.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    One quick thing I wanted to add in my other post but was in too big of a hurry...

    First, you've got some great responses from everyone.

    One last thing I wanted to point out though...

    if you're only selling one package at one price, you box yourself in.

    We all have heard the "would you like fries with that" line a million times.

    Now of course it's small, medium, and large. And even super sized in some places.

    If you've ever read about the psychology of pricing (if you haven't, I recommend you do), when given only one offer...it's a yes or no option.

    When given more than one option, the buyer starts thinking hmmmm.

    Have a poor people offer. Have an everyday people offer. Have a rich people offer.

    Most of the buyers will take the everyday people offer. There are those out there who will do the poor people thing and surprisingly, there are those who will spring for the rich people offer.

    Your objective though is to get them to take the everyday offer. It's called decoy pricing.

    Also, I would never recommend selling something without an upsell. People buying something at the moment are usually more willing to add to their purchase (not always, but those that do add to your profits without any further effort). Failing to offer an upsell simply leaves money on the table...

    and also the upsell should be automatically checked. The customer should have to uncheck it after reading a statement like: "No thanks, I don't want the extra stuff" (something like that).

    When you just have one offer at one price, you either have to raise the price, lower the price, or offer a discount. 3 packages allow you more freedom without seeming like you're giving away the store.

    So anyways, just a couple more quick ideas you can consider and maybe see if they work for you
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      We all have heard the "would you like fries with that" line a million times.

      Now of course it's small, medium, and large. And even super sized in some places.

      If you've ever read about the psychology of pricing (if you haven't, I recommend you do), when given only one offer...it's a yes or no option.

      When given more than one option, the buyer starts thinking hmmmm.
      If you look at the big boys and how they structure offers, there is almost ALWAYS 3 options. look at newspapers subscriptions as an example. Home delivery, online only, and both. Look at the product structure on many things you will see good, better, best. This allows potential customer to financially place themselves without being boxed in yes or no.

      been saying this for a while now, but as mentioned here your model is flawed. BUT to your credit, your model is creating CONSISTANT cash flow... and I get it, its REALLY HARD to skip around with paying your bills every month.

      At this point, REALLY knowing your history, I would raise the price $20 or so and blast an end of month sale each and every month.

      I dont recall who said it here already, but I would suggest as stated already its not the price its the OFFER... its HOW the offer is delivered,
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


      Your objective though is to get them to take the everyday offer. It's called decoy pricing.

      Also, I would never recommend selling something without an upsell. People buying something at the moment are usually more willing to add to their purchase (not always, but those that do add to your profits without any further effort). Failing to offer an upsell simply leaves money on the table...

      and also the upsell should be automatically checked. The customer should have to uncheck it after reading a statement like: "No thanks, I don't want the extra stuff" (something like that).
      Damn. The other marketers here are kicking themselves (me included) for not including these important pieces to the puzzle.

      Along the same lines...

      Have three offers with the middle one being the one that offers the most for the money. And label it "Most Popular".

      I haven't seen the offer or the webpage. But it's almost always advisable to, instead of offering more , break up what you are now offering in one package...and sell part of it as an upsell, or as the premium offer.

      And yes, always, have an upsell. And it should be made immediately, preferably before they submit their order.

      Let's say the offer now gives 1,2,3,4,5,6.

      Change it so that the budget offer (of three) gives 1,2,3. The middle offer gives 1-5...and the premium offer gives 1-6.

      There are plenty of Youtube videos on how to structure upsells.
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Damn. The other marketers here are kicking themselves (me included) for not including these important pieces to the puzzle.

        Along the same lines...

        Have three offers with the middle one being the one that offers the most for the money. And label it "Most Popular".

        I haven't seen the offer or the webpage. But it's almost always advisable to, instead of offering more , break up what you are now offering in one package...and sell part of it as an upsell, or as the premium offer.

        And yes, always, have an upsell. And it should be made immediately, preferably before they submit their order.

        Let's say the offer now gives 1,2,3,4,5,6.

        Change it so that the budget offer (of three) gives 1,2,3. The middle offer gives 1-5...and the premium offer gives 1-6.

        There are plenty of Youtube videos on how to structure upsells.
        Just to add to this...

        I talked about the psychology of pricing. There are several books on it...but the best free report I ever came across was from this guy.

        I don't know him, but he's got some great information on the subject (as well as a ton of other free reports).

        Well worth the time to read.

        https://www.nickkolenda.com/psycholo...ng-strategies/
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Going to add a bit here... Declan right above makes some very good points... BUT there is more than one way to skin a cat... I am pretty sure affiliate offers may not be the route to take in YOUR situation... BUT you have this captive audience of guitar players.. and self branded physical products would be oh so the way I would go, and YES I am biased to physical products.

    I would have my little fingers and eyeballs on allibaba express and be buying custom printed guitar picks. Think T-shirts. Guitar stands - find some wicked cool design other than the standard fold out metal three legged thing. Wall mounts. Strings - and then when they come in print out new self branded inner labels.

    Your EXISTING customers are HAPPY... they will BUY
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  • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
    I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who replied with all of this GOLDEN information!!

    It's definitely a matter of upgrading my MINDSET to take me to the next level. I have bookmarked this thread, and I will definitely be applying some of these suggestions ASAP!!

    Thank you!!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

      I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who replied with all of this GOLDEN information!!

      It's definitely a matter of upgrading my MINDSET to take me to the next level. I have bookmarked this thread, and I will definitely be applying some of these suggestions ASAP!!

      Thank you!!
      So out of left field.. actually probably the parking lot outside the stadium past left field... are you a brand ambassador?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        So out of left field.. actually probably the parking lot outside the stadium past left field... are you a brand ambassador?
        Haha I had to look up what a "brand ambassador" was!

        Um, no I'm not that. I am a one man team. Just me, myself and I!
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

          Haha I had to look up what a "brand ambassador" was!

          Um, no I'm not that. I am a one man team. Just me, myself and I!
          I dont know if you have read any of my other posts... wouldnt blame if you didnt Im loud obnoxious and long winded... BUT.. as you point out YOU need to migrate from a "ME" to a "WE" and the way to do this is through "BRAND"

          On the back end and in front of the camera it can be all you you you... but the language used needs to change up a bit.

          Now that you know what it is... being a "Brand Ambassador" would open up some things for you... The ability to be a "legitimate" Brand Ambassador would go a long way in credibility. In theory the brand will send you some "sample" pieces that you can oh so use to your advantage.

          So here is a path to think about. I would ask you for 1 more video a week, maybe 2. I would like you to start doing cover song videos.. and I would like you to create videos that hit specifically on the physical technical aspects of your craft. what to look for in a good but affordable beginners guitar? string gauge and how they sound and feel ( I am thinking 3 of the 3 exact same guitar with 3 different string setups to hear the difference etc.

          You might want to gather a few ideas and pitch the concept to your local guitar store to at least help you with loaner product. YOUR video would then be sponsored by the local shop AND and this is a big AND... YOUR guitar course, ME to WE.

          At some point a "Brand Ambassador" deal will fall in your lap OR if you have a specific preference you might want to seek that relationship out. A couple of super discount or free guitars a year that you could give away to "members" as an incentive to become a member might be a good move.

          Again me in your shoes I would be looking into product. strings picks etc - if you have members that would pay yearly with no issues... dont you think they would buy their picks and strings from you?

          Gevalia gives away coffee makers to sell coffee.. you in essence, would be letting your course go for below "Value" to recoup on the back end consumables and in the end you could "feel good" about the whole thing.

          your next move has to be ME to WE.. you need to really start thinking BRAND, and developing that aspect of your business. you HAVE the audience to do this - they WANT to throw money at you - give them what they WANT.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
            Savidge, I have been avoiding the "we" thing for a while. My entire "philosophy" about how I make a living stems from Steve Pavlina. He is super successful, and he has always been against "branding". He has an article, which you can search on Google, called "Branding is Fear Based BS"...

            That said, I do see a lot of benefits in using the "we" terminology. At the very least, using "we" makes me seem a bit more out of reach. Someone once suggested to respond to emails as "Nancy", who is my made up secretary.

            On the other hand, many people seem to really like how personally involved I am with the business. I will definitely start to dabble with this idea. Definitely great food for thought.

            As always, your advice is solid and very much appreciated!

            Also, although I didn't respond directly to every single person in this thread, I have read all of the replies multiple times. I have bookmarked this thread, and I will be referencing it many times as I upgrade my mindset!!

            Thank you all!!
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            • Profile picture of the author DABK
              Have you ever read Gerber's E-Myth Revisited? If not, it's high time.


              Even if you choose to be the only employee of your business... It will make you see what you do differently...



              Look at the biggest companies... Amazon.com is tied to Bezos but not Bezos. If Bezos left, Amazon will remain Amazon.


              Look at the biggest companies? How many of them are I vs We.


              Does We seem like you're avoiding responsibility while I accepting it?



              Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

              Savidge, I have been avoiding the "we" thing for a while. My entire "philosophy" about how I make a living stems from Steve Pavlina. He is super successful, and he has always been against "branding". He has an article, which you can search on Google, called "Branding is Fear Based BS"...

              That said, I do see a lot of benefits in using the "we" terminology. At the very least, using "we" makes me seem a bit more out of reach. Someone once suggested to respond to emails as "Nancy", who is my made up secretary.

              On the other hand, many people seem to really like how personally involved I am with the business. I will definitely start to dabble with this idea. Definitely great food for thought.

              As always, your advice is solid and very much appreciated!

              Also, although I didn't respond directly to every single person in this thread, I have read all of the replies multiple times. I have bookmarked this thread, and I will be referencing it many times as I upgrade my mindset!!

              Thank you all!!
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              • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
                Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                Have you ever read Gerber's E-Myth Revisited? If not, it's high time.


                Even if you choose to be the only employee of your business... It will make you see what you do differently...



                Look at the biggest companies... Amazon.com is tied to Bezos but not Bezos. If Bezos left, Amazon will remain Amazon.


                Look at the biggest companies? How many of them are I vs We.


                Does We seem like you're avoiding responsibility while I accepting it?
                I will definitely take a look at that book. Thanks for the suggestion!

                To answer your question, I always just felt like "we" was fake. However, I definitely understand the reasoning for making the switch.

                I'll definitely check that book out though!
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                What one might preach and what one might do is 2 totally different things. Do me a favor do a search for "Steve Pavlina" on Google... Look at the results.. you might as well have looked up "Pepsi" BRANDED as all get out

                Take a look here: ( https://stevepavlina.com/blog/2021/0...qa-call-video/ ) 2nd word in the text?

                Even the guy that says "don't" - DOES. Brand is Brand is Brand.. even when its "Personal" EVERYTHING this man does is Branded by PERSONAL BRAND

                SO now that we have dispelled THAT myth LOL ( btw I, read a good amount of his stuff ) Look at what I have suggested as a path.. and look how it fits in nicely with what Steve does. For better or for worse you NEED to start branding. A centralized location just like his site that is a base for your course(s) for your physical products, for you to share your Brand Ambassador stuff, your latest video on how to select a guitar... Have you recorded music? THIS is all BRANDING... and again tell me Steve doesn't do this? THATS the BS
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                • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  What one might preach and what one might do is 2 totally different things. Do me a favor do a search for "Steve Pavlina" on Google... Look at the results.. you might as well have looked up "Pepsi" BRANDED as all get out

                  Take a look here: ( https://stevepavlina.com/blog/2021/0...qa-call-video/ ) 2nd word in the text?

                  Even the guy that says "don't" - DOES. Brand is Brand is Brand.. even when its "Personal" EVERYTHING this man does is Branded by PERSONAL BRAND

                  SO now that we have dispelled THAT myth LOL ( btw I, read a good amount of his stuff ) Look at what I have suggested as a path.. and look how it fits in nicely with what Steve does. For better or for worse you NEED to start branding. A centralized location just like his site that is a base for your course(s) for your physical products, for you to share your Brand Ambassador stuff, your latest video on how to select a guitar... Have you recorded music? THIS is all BRANDING... and again tell me Steve doesn't do this? THATS the BS
                  Haha you are so right. He has definitely changed his business model over the years. He is much more of an aggressive marketer these days. The article I was referring to is like 10 years old, so I'm sure his way of thinking has definitely changed since then!
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

              Also, although I didn't respond directly to every single person in this thread, I have read all of the replies multiple times. I have bookmarked this thread, and I will be referencing it many times as I upgrade my mindset!!

              Thank you all!!
              It's wonderful to have you here Bkelly301. And, reminds me of how WarriorForum was several years ago:

              Essentially, smart Entrepreneurs/Marketers/_____ being humble enough with their ventures while also sharing what they have learned from their journey.
              I honestly think if there were more People like you, the Forum would be a better place.
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            • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
              Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post


              That said, I do see a lot of benefits in using the "we" terminology. At the very least, using "we" makes me seem a bit more out of reach. Someone once suggested to respond to emails as "Nancy", who is my made up secretary.

              As the end usah of the fruits of your own initiative, you gotta wondah always what all gluts of prizes are worth.


              Ain't evah no Cast In Stone slooshin' for nowan' -- which is why the panorama of intel, hoppinyouwaahn, an' drive-by Hey you see here gonna refine out gray areahs regardin' deepo filosofical knundrums like the above.


              If'n that warn't so, The Great Gatsby woulda been written in the 3rd person -- an' bombed.


              Deep down, beyond dollahs an' methods, there is touch an' feel.


              So gather all yr stuffs. Stir sweet. Reflect sum. Go sleep a few times. An' prolly this trifle of vibrant input gonna loft your pertickler cherry above the fluffed schloppo of genrs cream gowin' on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    Interesting discussion.
    : )

    At one point it's great to charge what your product(s)/services are worth ― and many times increasing the price will increase conversions ― however there's also the aspect of giving your People a great deal for their money. I suppose balance is important. : )

    From studying Eben Pagan's/Davide DeAngelo's marketing offering People a great discount for purchasing all his products must be a winning strategy.

    Again, I think it's all about providing a great deal.

    2C
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Interesting discussion.
      : )

      At one point it's great to charge what your product(s)/services are worth
      And how much is information worth?

      It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. The market determines the price....through price testing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        And how much is information worth?

        It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. The market determines the price....through price testing.
        Yeah. Great point ― thanks Claude. However let's say a Marketer/Person ascertains through testing that their eBook sells most at $39.95 ... However decides to charge $19.95 because they want People to have great deal ... That would be a good thing, no?
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Yeah. Great point ― thanks Claude. However let's say a Marketer/Person ascertains through testing that their eBook sells most at $39.95 ... However decides to charge $19.95 because they want People to have great deal ... That would be a good thing, no?
          BUT technically speaking that would be a CHOICE, and you wouldn't or better yet shouldn't start a thread such as this asking for help.

          Unlike most every other thread in regards to pricing here ( WF ) Bkelly has an amount of success - meaning he is making his and his families living with this source of income. So yeah its easy for us to come in and say change this or that or hey you are doing this "wrong"... but the learning curve to doing it "right" comes at a price at this point - and not a price that can be paid.

          THAT is the REAL conundrum of this particular situation. How do you increase his cash flow without decreasing his cash flow in the process of getting there? WE test things for days and weeks and months on end to get to "Right" and Bkelly simply can not afford to do so at this point.

          From MY perspective at this point it becomes a matter of let laying dogs lie already and work on creating added value / income after the point of sale - once there is a captive and happy audience.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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            Hi savidge4.

            Thanks for the reply. My point was simply that being generous and offering People a great deal can be a good thing. Sometimes it's not all about money and profit ... Rather (as Steve Jobs said) ... Caring about the People you're serving.

            AllTheBest.
            : )
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Hi savidge4.

              Thanks for the reply. My point was simply that being generous and offering People a great deal can be a good thing. Sometimes it's not all about money and profit ... Rather (as Steve Jobs said) ... Caring about the People you're serving.

              AllTheBest.
              : )
              I get what you are saying... and not to be a piss ant, but Steve Job and the brand he is identified with, produces and sells some of the most, if not the most expensive products in any category that they enter.


              WHY is "Marketing", and nothing else... the most successful companies on the planet use WHY ( and by "success" I mean dollars and cents )

              Lets use the example of say Green Peace - and that may better convey the message you are trying to project here - or maybe a bit less harsh Peace Corps. THESE are WHY based organizations without regard of profit... and they simply do not fall within the same realm as say Apple, Tesla, or Amazon.

              Look, we say it here all the time... go with what you know... follow your passion... etc etc. Bkelly is the POSTERCHILD of this very mind set. He is the POSTERCHILD of how these often hollow words are in fact a legitimate path to success. ( and I mean dollars and cents )

              Read this thread, and specifically read what it is Bkelly says his patrons say of his product... HE is over delivering and undercharging... that does not mean he has to stay the same and be broke... it doesnt mean that he has to be "happy" with what he has.

              "MORE" is what gets me up in the morning... "MORE" is what keeps me up at night... I have said this to you before and I will say it again.. the more successful I am, the more it is I can give.. WHY do I work as long and hard as I do? #1 I love the F out of what I do, and #2 it allows me to give to those that need a rise up.

              Im not trying to be combative here, but fluff is fluff in certain circumstances - YES I 100% agree with the principle... its the practice I might disagree with.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            BUT technically speaking that would be a CHOICE, and you wouldn't or better yet shouldn't start a thread such as this asking for help.

            Unlike most every other thread in regards to pricing here ( WF ) Bkelly has an amount of success - meaning he is making his and his families living with this source of income. So yeah its easy for us to come in and say change this or that or hey you are doing this "wrong"... but the learning curve to doing it "right" comes at a price at this point - and not a price that can be paid.

            THAT is the REAL conundrum of this particular situation. How do you increase his cash flow without decreasing his cash flow in the process of getting there? WE test things for days and weeks and months on end to get to "Right" and Bkelly simply can not afford to do so at this point.

            From MY perspective at this point it becomes a matter of let laying dogs lie already and work on creating added value / income after the point of sale - once there is a captive and happy audience.
            This is exactly right!!

            You have suggested multiple times to "leave it and build new stuff"...and I actually have been doing that.

            I've built a second course that sells reasonably well (no where near as well as my main product though). I'm also working on another eBook. I found a nice affiliate product that my audience likes, but doesn't interfere with my main product. I even started to incorporate some "print on demand" products into the business as well.

            All of that "other" stuff sells, but nowhere near as well as my main product. The $69 product, which is my main product is my bread and butter.

            On one hand I know that it would be smart to just leave that alone, and focus entirely on building new income streams....

            On the other hand, I have the constantly nagging feeling that tells me that I need to get this $69 product up to it's true value before fully moving onto something else.

            It's not just me that thinks this product is a "Ferrari" priced like a used Ford Taurus. I have been surveying my audience over the past few years, including just today actually...it's almost unanimous that they all say that the product is priced WAY too low.

            They are all ecstatic with what they got. Many of them even straight up told me "I will gladly start paying you an annual fee if you want, even though the initial agreement was supposed to be a one-time payment"...

            When I first started building this thing, I didn't plan this. I also didn't know what my competition was doing, but apparently I blow my competition out of the water. That all say that they don't even bother with anyone else's stuff other than mine.

            Constantly hearing this feedback tells me that I'm still selling myself short...

            So one hand, yes it would definitely be smart to leave it be...and focus purely on new income streams.

            But on the other hand, leaving this product as is without "figuring this out" just doesn't sit right with me.

            I just raised the price by another $10, so it's at $79 now. I'll keep that going for a month or so, and gradually keep increasing by $10 every few months until I notice sales start to taper off. I THINK that is the best course of action to really figure this one out!!

            You and many others here have been a HUGE help, and I can't thank you enough!!
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          However let's say a Marketer/Person ascertains through testing that their eBook sells most at $39.95 ... However decides to charge $19.95 because they want People to have great deal ... That would be a good thing, no?
          What's a great deal? Unless you're in a purely commodities-based business (and even then, there are often other variables than price to consider), the seller may set the price, but the buyer always determines the value. Always.

          And that value consists of more than just the purchase price - which in many markets may be the least important consideration. A great deal here would be all about how the customer feels after purchasing the OP's product, regardless of the price paid.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            What's a great deal?
            Hi Frank.

            Lets say there are 2 groups of 10 People. And they all rate the "value" of an eBook (or Information Product) as being 8.5 -- 9.0. However, for the first group the price is $19.95 and for the second group it's $39.95 -- with the eBook content being the same -- then surely the first 10 People are getting a better/great/ more generous deal??

            That said, considering OP's thread is about the psychology, what do you (and everyone else) think about People valuing a product more just because it's being sold for a high price?

            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            A great deal here would be all about how the customer feels after purchasing the OP's product, regardless of the price paid.
            Great point. : ) There is a limit though -- if he charges too much it probably wouldn't work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Lets say there are 2 groups of 10 People. And they all rate the "value" of an eBook (or Information Product) as being 8.5 -- 9.0. However, for the first group the price is $19.95 and for the second group it's $39.95 -- with the eBook content being the same -- then surely the first 10 People getting a better/great/ more generous deal??
              No, you're missing the point. The value is buyer/user specific. If all the buyers rate the value at 8.5-9.0, then they're all getting equal value. The only possible caveat with your hypothetical situation would be if a buyer from the second group were to find out the price was deliberately set lower elsewhere.

              That said, considering OP's thread is about the psychology, what do you (and everyone else) think about People valuing a product more just because it's being sold for a high price?
              Studies have shown that people tend to value a wine more highly if it costs more. It's not just explained by snobbery - in tests, they honestly believe the taste is better. No doubt other factors such as the environment, the occasion, cultural narratives and user expectations all play a part, but the enjoyment of the experience - and the sense of value - are real.

              The psychology of value is so fascinating because it's rarely about a straight A vs B price comparison.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                No, you're missing the point. The value is buyer/user specific.
                Actually, I understand that. : ) I was simply offering my opinion on how People can (also) get a great deal in terms of the price of the product. Thanks for your comment about price and "value" though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Tran
    Customers always loves sales and discount. It's a good way for them to save money and become crazy in shopping, they even buy more than normal amount to keep for later use. It increases the number of unit sold for suppliers and revenue as well even the profits per unit is less than usual sale.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrbawb
    This is so true. Can't tell you how many times I've purchased things because there was a "discount coupon"

    This post is amazing
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by mrbawb View Post

      This is so true. Can't tell you how many times I've purchased things because there was a "discount coupon"

      This post is amazing
      erm, as stated above that just means you are one more person who is trained to look for deals.
      Which is not a good thing if you're the seller.

      ...And if you're a buyer who is also trying to start or maintain a business...

      "Nickle and Diming", becomes a habit that often translates over to business expenditures, and while it's probably good to be a thrifty bargain hunter on a personal level, doing it as part of a business model or having it baked into your fundamentals may often cause you to miss the opportunities that will allow you to exponentially expand because the expense just seems so far beyond reality to you. Understanding how to spend/manage money properly is an art form that takes education.

      just my 2 cents worth
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        "Nickle and Diming", becomes a habit that often translates over to business expenditures, and while it's probably good to be a thrifty bargain hunter on a personal level, doing it as part of a business model or having it baked into your fundamentals may often cause you to miss the opportunities that will allow you to exponentially expand because the expense just seems so far beyond reality to you. Understanding how to spend/manage money properly is an art form that takes education.
        Interesting post kenmichaels. : )
        Another thing I learned from Eben Pagen [search YouTube for training etc.] ... Is something he calls "Moving the free line." Essentially, in part, that means giving People/Your Market your absolute and "best" and most empowering information ― all for free.

        I think that many People/Your Market can kind of intuitively "sense" whether you really care about them. And their need/desires/hopes/ambitions/etc.

        Then there's the concept of reciprocity as explained in: "Influence: The Psychology Of Persuasion." [See Amazon] Basically, when you give People great/amazing/empowering information ― they will be far, far more receptive/motivated to buy your paid product. There's more to it than that -- so definitely read the book.

        HTH
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Interesting post kenmichaels. : )
          Another thing I learned from Eben Pagen [search YouTube for training etc.] ... Is something he calls "Moving the free line." Essentially, in part, that means giving People/Your Market your absolute and "best" and most empowering information ― all for free.

          I think that many People/Your Market can kind of intuitively "sense" whether you really care about them. And their need/desires/hopes/ambitions/etc.

          Then there's the concept of reciprocity as explained in: "Influence: The Psychology Of Persuasion." [See Amazon] Basically, when you give People great/amazing/empowering information ― they will be far, far more receptive/motivated to buy your paid product. There's more to it than that -- so definitely read the book.

          HTH
          I cant disagree with this in the slightest... I will give away information all day long. In terms of product sales - as in physical goods, I provide as much knowledge an information as I can - before, during and post sale.

          When you look at a basic buyers cycle.. you have people searching basic information ( tire kickers ), then those getting more specific with search ( they are narrowing down on a selection ) you then enter the buying portion that is either very specific search ( Size 12 nike XXX mens shoes red and blue ) OR they start entering XXX discount, or XXX cheap etc etc. Once the sale is complete, there is then POST sale information.. and I personally focus greatly on this. How to clean, how to tie, how to maintain, if this breaks, how to fix yada yada yada.

          shoes probably being a bad example I sell those on eBay, and it is from the get go pretty specific search... but say hardwood flooring.. the more times I can get a prospective customer on my site as they gather information - Tire Kicking.. more detail, a lot of detail, figuring out how to care for it.. and then the buying... price starts to have less weight... as long as you are in a ballpark with everyone else, you have something the other sites do not... and that is TRUST.

          Again I will give away information all day long.. but actual BUYING, I dont and wont play the discount game. Because I sell actual physical products... I have numbers I have to meet.. shipping, packaging, the cost of goods, the labor, Electricity etc... etc... My "prices" have to pay all of that and then some right?

          So what happens when you are selling information? Oh you make the booklet once and you will sell it over and over and over... the fact you are doing this doesnt mean it has a lower amount of Value. I am pretty sure Bkelly can chime in here and suggest he is working 40+ hours a week... even tho the "product" is done, that does not mean the EXPENSE of selling that product is null - and i think this is where many people get in trouble.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Again I will give away information all day long.. but actual BUYING, I dont and wont play the discount game. Because I sell actual physical products... I have numbers I have to meet.. shipping, packaging, the cost of goods, the labor, Electricity etc... etc... My "prices" have to pay all of that and then some right?.
            Hi again savidge4. : )

            Yeah (I think) I understand where you're coming from.

            However a Marketer I've been "studying" for a while is now (compared to several years ago) offering People a 80% discount -- on his information products -- and I'm assuming it's working because I know his team are fanatical about testing. That's another important aspect of being and Entrepreneur -- essentially (as Jay Abraham said) ... "In marketing, everything is a test." All that said, I understand that with your "Business Model" the "discount game" probably wouldn't be helpful??

            Anyway, I'm kind of in two minds about this: In one part I would sell an eBook for the most profitable/optimal price -- which, like Claude and Frank suggested -- is determined by the Market and/or the Buyer, However at the same time, I would like to be "generous" and offer them a great deal in terms of price.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              I would like to be "generous" and offer them a great deal in terms of price.
              Your motives are pure. But just know this, no matter how low the price, the people buying won't see it as generosity on your part. Whatever price you put on something, if they can't find an identical offer, in their mind will be the right price.

              For example, you sell an e-book for $50. Even if you say it was originally $50, and they can now get it for $10....to the buyer, it's a $10 item.

              I know a sales trainer that sold his sales course for $997. He did that for years. Then he offered it at a "70% discount" and now it's $297.

              Now, it's a $297 course. the people are buying because they feel it's worth $297, not because the price dropped.

              The only time a price drop like that stimulates sales is immediately after the price drop, and it affects the people already seeing the offer at $997...and almost bought at that price And it has to still be sold for the higher price somewhere else, to make the price drop look real.

              There is no way he can go back up to $997.

              This is different for items like shoes and appliances, because comparable products are easy to compare and price shop.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Your motives are pure. But just know this, no matter how low the price, the people buying won't see it as generosity on your part. Whatever price you put on something, if they can't find an identical offer, in their mind will be the right price.
                How do you know that for certain? As an example, approximately a year ago I had the opportunity for buying a course on productivity (which usually sells for $997) ... For something like $197 that also included another course on being an Entrepreneur. I didn't think of it as being "generous" necessarily ... However it was an amazing deal.

                P.S.
                I'm not being "generous" so People will buy more, or for "recognition" ... I'm doing it because I think it's a great thing to do.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              .However a Marketer I've been "studying" for a while is now (compared to several years ago) offering People a 80% discount -- on his information products -- and I'm assuming it's working because I know his team are fanatical about testing.
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              How do you know that for certain? As an example, approximately a year ago I had the opportunity for buying a course on productivity (which usually sells for $997) ... For something like $197 that also included another course on being an Entrepreneur. I didn't think of it as being "generous" necessarily ... However it was an amazing deal.
              "Marketer" and "...it was an amazing deal". these terms are one in the same - you got "Marketed" Would you have paid $997? or did you just feel better paying $197? Would it have mattered if it just sold for $197 - not knowing its marked up, marketed value was $997?

              Part of a "Marketers" job is to set a VALUE... I personally like physical products, because VALUE is set by MARKET... Value in 95% of everything I sell is a known variable. The other 5% is just getting your hands on something so off the wall or rare, and you start high and work your way down until someone bites - and even with that I hate the process.

              For any given item or course or whatever, there are only so many people in the world that are "Looking" and if one day they look and its $700, and the next week its $500... they will check back again a week later, and a week after that and so on.. anticipating a lower price.

              No different than how I look at "discount" racks in stores. I KNOW that in my Home Depot they discount these racks EVERY Monday morning. I will go back every Monday by 10am and see what has been marked down further. Most of the time someone looks at the item and says "sweet, a deal" and I come the following week and the item isnt there. Then there are the items that $.01 out - just bought 4 Ridgid Shop Vacs for a penny each, because I know what to look for. Those shop vacs set on that shelf for 6 months to get there They SELL for $129 ( sold 2 of them already and today is now Thursday, and I bought them Monday ) and I paid $.01, THAT "is an amazing deal"

              Let me through another twist in this for you... best information for free like this ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...days-ebay.html ) not a once is there a mention of a product or a price or anything... how much money has that thread made me aside from actually selling product in the last 2+ years?

              Gary Vaynerchuck... best information for free... in all of the videos I have watched of his, he very rarely right hooks, and I cant think of time one he has right hooked Vaynermedia... how much has the content that he produces made him? ( the answer is in the 10's of millions if not more )

              Giving away your best.. and then DISCOUNTING, is B A D Marketing and there is no other way around it. And when I say B A D, I mean piss poor,

              Your example above, the marketer that "tests" has figured out that the product with a 80% discount sells at least 5 times more often than at 100%. I would bet at full price.. his sales would be less than 1% of what they are at 80% off. the discount is a crutch, its a gimmick, its MARKETING. Remove the crutch of false VALUE ( 100% price ) and do you think they could sell the same product by quantity as they do now?

              Lets draw this right back to the OP... must of us ( all of us ) with experience are suggesting its not the price, its the OFFER. I have read Bkelly ( know him only through reading him here ) enough over the years as he has worked his way to where he is today, that I KNOW he is not going to know where to start to "Change" the offer, so I suggested if you cant beat them join them... and raise the price and offer the discount every month, vs 4 holidays a year.

              Its a stop gap, but not a fix right? Again, most of us with experience are saying a "discount" is temporary, and actually FIXING the offer, is the ultimate solution. Selling the same exact product / service, day after day, month after month, year after year.. vs a flash in the pan time span of selling an info product... its night and day, and crutches like a "discount" become a handicap real fast - let alone, what, 5 years in Bkelly?

              I am obviously not sitting here saying discounts dont work, I think what is being said here is discounts are NOT ideal.
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              • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                I am obviously not sitting here saying discounts dont work, I think what is being said here is discounts are NOT ideal.
                This thread has turned into a goldmine of info!!

                I'm wondering...

                When you say "change the OFFER", what exactly do you mean?

                On my website, I have made tons of walkthrough videos, outlines showing exactly what is contained within, etc.

                I have hundreds of positive reviews...

                It's absolutely INSANE how much people get when they join my site. I've said it over and over again, access to this website should easily go for about $299 to $499, if not more...

                As hard as I try to explain to people that I am offering a LIFETIME worth of information and my "competition" is not other "online courses", but rather it is entire college/university curriculums....people still tend to perceive my product as no more than a "little course".

                I try to explain to people that my site is the alternative to going to the Berklee school of music, all for a one-time fee...

                But they still perceive it as no more than just your standard run of the mill "course".

                You are right, I am completely lost as to how I would change the "offer"!!

                I'm not even sure if I understand what it means to "change the offer, not the price"!!
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

                  This thread has turned into a goldmine of info!!

                  I'm wondering...

                  When you say "change the OFFER", what exactly do you mean?

                  On my website, I have made tons of walkthrough videos, outlines showing exactly what is contained within, etc.

                  I have hundreds of positive reviews...

                  It's absolutely INSANE how much people get when they join my site. I've said it over and over again, access to this website should easily go for about $299 to $499, if not more...

                  As hard as I try to explain to people that I am offering a LIFETIME worth of information and my "competition" is not other "online courses", but rather it is entire college/university curriculums....people still tend to perceive my product as no more than a "little course".

                  I try to explain to people that my site is the alternative to going to the Berklee school of music, all for a one-time fee...

                  But they still perceive it as no more than just your standard run of the mill "course".

                  You are right, I am completely lost as to how I would change the "offer"!!

                  I'm not even sure if I understand what it means to "change the offer, not the price"!!
                  So let me ask you this... did you graduate from Berklee School of Music? This is what I would call a point of developing "Authority" meaning you know what you are talking about... outside of the content itself validation that what it is you have is of value.. and not just some stoner guitar guy in his garage. THIS is also where being a Brand Ambassador falls into the mix... its no longer YOU ( ME ) saying this course is quality.. it becomes WE with the brand association.

                  Being sponsored / signed by probably any Guitar brand in YOUR world would speak volumes to YOUR value as a guitar player and teacher. The greater the "Authority" directly translates to a greater price.

                  Who would you pay more to see.. a newly college grad on the topic of solar energy, or Elon Musk? and then ask yourself why would you pay the difference? THAT in a nutshell is how you have to change your offer, so you can increase your price. Right now without seeing it, I am more than guessing, you are making a college Grad offer.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

                  You are right, I am completely lost as to how I would change the "offer"!!

                  I'm not even sure if I understand what it means to "change the offer, not the price"!!

                  Several years ago, I was brought in to my main supplier (with 20 other top distributors), and they asked us for our ideas on how to improve the sales.


                  It was a high end vacuum cleaner, and it came in two boxes (lots of tools and attachments)

                  I listened for a day, the other distributors were complaining about the product, not offering solutions. These were salespeople and managers. Not marketers. I was the only one that had marketing (the useful kind) experience.

                  I said "For $5 more, I can increase the value by $500 or more, in the mind of the buyer, and make it easier to sell".

                  I told the CEO "The hose is 6 feet long. Make it 12 feet long. That will make the vacuum unique and more versatile. It will be an excellent selling point, and will cost almost nothing. Then, make the cord 40 feet long, instead of 30 feet long. Another way to add real value without adding more than a dollar to the cost....

                  And divide the contents of the boxes up into three boxes instead of two. Three boxes of stuff is worth more than two, and will further look like more for the money.. Add a 25 year warranty on the casing, which never needs service. It will cost you nothing, but will add real perceived value in the offer."

                  The rest of the two days was spent with the distributors arguing with the company staff about shipping, parts availability...that sort of thing. A wasted opportunity....although they did use two of my ideas to good effect.
                  (Added later; There was one other guy there that had ideas even better than mine. We spent a lot of time together, once we recognized each other, talking actual sales and marketing)

                  Why tell this story? It 's a way to change the offer without adding much to the cost.

                  In fact, I bought the book Influence by Robert Cialdini years ago. A fine book I recommend. A couple days ago, I saw an interview with the author, telling us that he revised the book with more information...so I bought the revised copy...as did thousands of others. That's another way to change the offer. Just add a little more, and sell it as the new edition.

                  Dan Kennedy sold his Magnetic Marketing course to audiences around the world. Every few years he would change the cover to say "2005 Edition" or "2008 edition". Nothing else was changed. It greatly boosted sales. How did he do this?

                  Kennedy knew a secret. When people buy information products, these are almost never completely read (or watched). In fact, most people never look at it at all.

                  If you are consistently adding new material to your offer....that's a new offer. If you add some content every month (let's say), every year, you have a new offer...an expanded edition.

                  Anyway, I hope it helps.
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    If you are consistently adding new material to your offer....that's a new offer. If you add some content every month (let's say), every year, you have a new offer...an expanded edition.
                    So how this translates to the OP This month <just throwing in a number> 1800 videos... next month 1820, and the following month 1840. Anyone on your list will SEE the progression, SEE the continual value added.
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                • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                  Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

                  As hard as I try to explain to people that I am offering a LIFETIME worth of information and my "competition" is not other "online courses", but rather it is entire college/university curriculums....people still tend to perceive my product as no more than a "little course".

                  I try to explain to people that my site is the alternative to going to the Berklee school of music, all for a one-time fee...

                  But they still perceive it as no more than just your standard run of the mill "course".
                  So make it harder for them to get in. As well as a simple price for entry, require a minimum standard of musicianship or a related qualification for membership. That's one way to boost the perceived prestige of the course. And create a system of certification (if you haven't already done this) for each level of the course. Instigate a beginners-level preparatory course (for a lower fee) the completion of which grants qualification to apply for the main course.

                  Lots of ways you can change the offer, but this all goes back to branding; establishing yourself as the online equivalent of colleges like Berklee.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                    So make it harder for them to get in. As well as a simple price for entry, require a minimum standard of musicianship or a related qualification for membership. That's one way to boost the perceived prestige of the course. And create a system of certification (if you haven't already done this) for each level of the course. Instigate a beginners-level preparatory course (for a lower fee) the completion of which grants qualification to apply for the main course.

                    Lots of ways you can change the offer, but this all goes back to branding; establishing yourself as the online equivalent of colleges like Berklee.
                    Best information on this thread.

                    Requiring a minimum standard of musicianship (which anyone interested would probably have achieved anyway) is incontrovertible evidence that the course is highly valuable, and in demand.


                    If you can create the image that it's possible to be turned away, the demand will dramatically increase.

                    And comparing it to a college course established higher value instantly.

                    Damn. How dare you be more insightful than I am?

                    Added later; You just gave me an idea for my own course to sell a "Preparatory course for beginners". It solved a problem for me. Thank you.
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                    • Profile picture of the author DABK
                      Because eyes and brains don't stay young forever, at first, I read your course name as Predatory course for beginners.


                      I think you should come up with such a course: the world needs it.


                      PS One of these days I will undertake a thorough study of emojis and increase my written emotional output.



                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                      Added later; You just gave me an idea for my own course to sell a "Preparatory course for beginners". It solved a problem for me. Thank you.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                        Because eyes and brains don't stay young forever, at first, I read your course name as Predatory course for beginners.
                        I think the title should be "Prepare To Be A Predator. Eat Your Customers "

                        Ha!

                        I was using the word Preparatory because Frank Donovan used that word. I'm just proud of myself that I didn't have to look it up.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    Who would you pay more to see.. a newly college grad on the topic of solar energy, or Elon Musk? and then ask yourself why would you pay the difference?
                    Very good point. People tell me on a consistent basis that my teaching is in a league of its own and by far the best on the internet. I have ego invested in my project, but I never thought of myself as "the best". However, I'm hearing more and more people tell me this every single day.

                    I don't have a degree from Berklee. I do have a degree, but not in music. So I need to figure out a way to develop this "Elon Musk" personna. Very good advice!

                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Kennedy knew a secret. When people buy information products, these are almost never completely read (or watched). In fact, most people never look at it at all.
                    This is GREAT STUFF!! You are right. I could definitely repackage and repurpose stuff that I already have. People definitely don't go through all of the content. Thank you!

                    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                    And create a system of certification (if you haven't already done this) for each level of the course. Instigate a beginners-level preparatory course (for a lower fee) the completion of which grants qualification to apply for the main course.

                    Lots of ways you can change the offer, but this all goes back to branding; establishing yourself as the online equivalent of colleges like Berklee.
                    This is some next-level stuff right here! I'm not sure exactly how I would be able to integrate this "preparatory course" into my current business. I'd need to make a drastic change to my model that is currently working. I think this all needs to be done to a second website where I start fresh. Thank you for this!!
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                I am obviously not sitting here saying discounts don't work, I think what is being said here is discounts are NOT ideal.
                Absolutely. I agree. : ) (For certain Business Models that is.) Thanks for sharing your experience in your post. Like Bkelly301 said, this thread has some amazing info.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Interesting post kenmichaels. : )
          Another thing I learned from Eben Pagen [search YouTube for training etc.] ... Is something he calls "Moving the free line." Essentially, in part, that means giving People/Your Market your absolute and "best" and most empowering information ― all for free.

          I think that many People/Your Market can kind of intuitively "sense" whether you really care about them. And their need/desires/hopes/ambitions/etc.
          It's funny that this was brought up. This is EXACTLY what I do!!

          This is precisely why people buy off me. I never knew that this was a thing, but I can attest to the truth of this 100%!!
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  • Profile picture of the author james1998
    The perceived value of your product is not high enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by james1998 View Post

      The perceived value of your product is not high enough.
      Ya I know this already.
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