Your thoughts on greenwashing

by WF- Enzo Administrator
8 replies
There have been brands who market products as "environmentally-friendly", but really have questionable measures. Which brands are really doing green, and which are simply greenwashing? Chime in.
#greenwashing #thoughts
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  • Profile picture of the author N1coleW
    I'm not actually involved in this sphere, but I like the idea of electric cars, I know that Nordic countries constantly rising the percentage of electric cars on the roads, I think it's great. You can see more electro cars on the roads of Norway than gas cars
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    • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
      Originally Posted by N1coleW View Post

      I'm not actually involved in this sphere, but I like the idea of electric cars, I know that Nordic countries constantly rising the percentage of electric cars on the roads, I think it's great. You can see more electro cars on the roads of Norway than gas cars

      I didn't catch the whole thing but earlier today I heard about a company in Seattle (I think) that has "exchange batteries" for people with electric cars. That makes sense to me. Part of the problem with electric cars is that unlike taking five minutes or so to fill up your gas tank, batteries take time to charge. You're "grounded" until that happens. But if you can do a "battery exchange" then you can be back on your way quickly. If we have a lot of those types of companies, then more people can use electric cars, which would be great, IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

        I didn't catch the whole thing but earlier today I heard about a company in Seattle (I think) that has "exchange batteries" for people with electric cars. That makes sense to me. Part of the problem with electric cars is that unlike taking five minutes or so to fill up your gas tank, batteries take time to charge. You're "grounded" until that happens. But if you can do a "battery exchange" then you can be back on your way quickly. If we have a lot of those types of companies, then more people can use electric cars, which would be great, IMO.
        Not being a piss ant.. but you do realize that an "electric car" is basically one huge battery platform on wheels. The whole bottom of any of these vehicles from front to back is battery. You could battery exchange for a scooter, or a electric bike... but a car? uh no
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        • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Not being a piss ant.. but you do realize that an "electric car" is basically one huge battery platform on wheels. The whole bottom of any of these vehicles from front to back is battery. You could battery exchange for a scooter, or a electric bike... but a car? uh no

          I did not know that as I don't know much about electric cars. One thing I do know and have been saying for years is that to get an entire country like the USA to convert over to cars like that or cars that get better fuel economy or whatever it is going to take several generations. Why? Because there is a very, very large "lower middle class" of people (the type I worked with when I managed Jack in the Box for 20 years) who work at or near minimum wage. Those people aren't buying any kind of brand new car and they sure as heck aren't buying the most expensive kind of brand new car. Until these cars get used and re-sold on places like Craigslist for a couple thousand dollars, they will be impossible for the Lower Middle Class to get access to.



          The cars these people are buying (if they even buy a car at all) are used cars that people are selling for relatively low prices. "Electric Cars" are not on these people's horizon.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

            I did not know that as I don't know much about electric cars. One thing I do know and have been saying for years is that to get an entire country like the USA to convert over to cars like that or cars that get better fuel economy or whatever it is going to take several generations. Why? Because there is a very, very large "lower middle class" of people (the type I worked with when I managed Jack in the Box for 20 years) who work at or near minimum wage. Those people aren't buying any kind of brand new car and they sure as heck aren't buying the most expensive kind of brand new car. Until these cars get used and re-sold on places like Craigslist for a couple thousand dollars, they will be impossible for the Lower Middle Class to get access to.



            The cars these people are buying (if they even buy a car at all) are used cars that people are selling for relatively low prices. "Electric Cars" are not on these people's horizon.
            And this brings us to the other not so green aspect of "Green" There really will not be a used car market per se. Have you heard Elon Musk talk about 1,000,000 mile batteries? The batteries only last so long.. and Tesla's are far and away better than the others. Some of the now aging electric cars today get about 100,000 miles or so and the batteries are done. Your not going to buy a "used" car with batteries that hold 100 miles of charge. As an example.. the Chevrolet Volt battery pack "remanufactured" is $6000.

            So to those green minded folks out there.. what then happens to the spent batteries.. and can you start to imagine how many battery poor cars there will be running around, abandoned, or needing disposed of - doesnt sound so green
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  • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
    I am "for" companies doing their best for the environment. While I have more..."conservative" views on the environment than many others, I am pretty strong on making sure the air is clean, our water is clean and not polluted (and our land is litter free), and I believe we should do our best to leave the earth in a better condition than it was when we got here, if at all possible.



    So if a company claims to be "green", I am going to check them out to see if their claims ring true. We need to be good stewards of the earth and we need to leave it in good condition for future generations.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by WF- Enzo View Post

    There have been brands who market products as "environmentally-friendly", but really have questionable measures. Which brands are really doing green, and which are simply greenwashing? Chime in.
    At this point... they are ALL greenwashing. The environmental impact of Solar is ridiculous - meaning the fossil fuels needed to mine the materials, the transport, the actual facilities that produce the final product etc... Tesla, what one might consider the posterchild of the American green movement - look at images of Giga Factory China... not a single solar panel... look at Nevada and Germany, and sure there are panels - probably enough to run the lights - they without question are not running the welding machines all day long.

    Then we get into "recycled" materials... look at the steps to getting the used raw material where it needs to go, then the process to make it "new" again, and then the distribution of the finished product. It MAY be "cheaper" but I doubt its any "greener".

    In MY mind, its almost like one step forward and 2 steps back. In terms of Brand and product, it will be YEARS before the net zero point is even close to reached. ( And i could argue that "Net Zero" is hype and not a reality, we will NEVER be 100% removed from fossil fuels )

    I think the easiest way to look at this is breaking down "Green" into 2 categories; Personal / home use, and commercial use.

    Personal home use... Achieving net zero for your personal day in and day out needs is VERY achievable. Solar panels and batteries, and you are pretty close. MY personal home, and my MOST of my business facilities are at this point "Off the Grid" with the use of Solar primary power generation with Gas generator backup. The sun could go dark, and I would have power for 3 to 4 days with the battery array that I have.

    I have a wood shop, and a room full of large format printers and a printing press... THIS is grid power all the way. The expense to be green with this type of equipment, is not worth the investment. And notice that these fall more under Commercial use.

    Commercial use... making cars... toilet paper, Saw Mills, glass factories, Steel manufacturing... kids, this will NEVER be 100% green, UNLESS in proximity to a Hydro facility or a Nuclear plant. The STEEL / Aluminum industry? cant be anything other than COAL - and this is just a simple reality. It takes STEEL / Aluminum to make all of these electric cars, Panels, Batteries etc

    We have been sold a narrative.. all be it a nice one, just a not so honest one.

    IF you have a need to want and desire "Power Independence" from Fossil fuels, start with your own home. When you really look at the micro and the macro on JUST power it makes absolutely NO sense to subsidize power companies to build wind and solar farms, We should be funding Panels and batteries for every individual home across The United States and any and every other country in the world. Right now.. the sun goes down, and commercial "electric" converts to Gas and Coal, because the privatized energy system can not afford batteries - and one really has to wonder if there is enough raw materials to produce all of the needed batteries to power the world over night.

    My 2 cents
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      At

      I think the easiest way to look at this is breaking down "Green" into 2 categories; Personal / home use, and commercial use.

      Personal home use... Achieving net zero for your personal day in and day out needs is VERY achievable. Solar panels and batteries, and you are pretty close. MY personal home, and my MOST of my business facilities are at this point "Off the Grid" with the use of Solar primary power generation with Gas generator backup. The sun could go dark, and I would have power for 3 to 4 days with the battery array that I have.

      I have a wood shop, and a room full of large format printers and a printing press... THIS is grid power all the way. The expense to be green with this type of equipment, is not worth the investment. And notice that these fall more under Commercial use.


      My 2 cents
      this is out of curiosity .. did you build your home and business facilities to be very energy efficient .. passive heating and cooling .. and do you use tradition hvac or .. geothermal systems for heating and cooling ..
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