I've been scammed and cheated... What now?

30 replies
A subscriber emailed me the following...

==========================

"I've been at this since Dec 2016 and have spent a lot of money trying systems, I've been lied to, mislead, scammed and cheated.

I've sat through Clickbank university, Aspire, Dean Holland's training and more.

Many have asked me to beta test and I've agreed yet none have gotten me access or followed through and got me working.

My credit card is maxed out now cause I've received no deposits in my efforts.

Even though many say I have funds due me. Are you gonna mentor me get me going and earning funds?

Or do I keep searching? I know money can be made on the internet and I'll keep at it till I succeeded"

==========================
Now here's my response...
==========================

"Wow I'm sorry to hear that it has been so challenging for you but I have seen a lot of people have the same issue.

I am here to help you. I'm not saying it's going to be easy but I will be beside you every step of the way.

I'm here to help you get results because when you win so do we.

There is a lot of BS in the industry and I want to work closely and help people who are willing to put in the work.

I'm a real human that just read your message and not looking to hide behind my computer. My video tells you all about what we will be teaching you it's simple (but takes effort) and it works.

I hope that helps"

==========================

If I'm honest I may have been too nice in hindsight.

I think I scared him off with the idea of actually having to do some work.

That's his loss! If he finds it too much work to learn a few new skills and take steps that could change his life forever. Then I don't want to be working with him.

Anyway, my question is.

How would you have responded to his email, was I too soft on him?

Is he always destined to fail because he doesn't take responsibility for what he does and only blames the products he bought?

Let me know,

Jouvan
#cheated #scammed
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I will be beside you every step of the way.
    Isn't' that what he/she has been trying to buy all along? One 'training' class after another - but he says nothing at all about what he has done to build his OWN online presence.

    Many have asked me to beta test and I've agreed yet none have gotten me access or followed through and got me working.
    So - the person has participated enough in the training/coaching to be offered beta copies....but that wasn't enough. He wanted MORE access than beta tests and expected others to 'get me working'.

    My credit card is maxed out now cause I've received no deposits in my efforts.
    His card is maxed out because he keeps trying to buy success. You know that and so does anyone with any experience online. Until this person makes the transition from 'show me, lead me, help me, teach me' and started working for himself, nothing much will happen. For now, it will always be the 'other guy's' fault.

    My guess is he will sign up with you - and before long you'll be hearing the same excuses - but I hope I'm wrong. Would be interested to know how this turns out,

    Years ago I was offered a beta test of software for massive article submission....I did the beta and learned to use the product thoroughly....BOUGHT the full version and charged $75 per article to use that software for others..VERY profitable for quite some time. The point is this: when a door opens you have to walk through it before it closes again.

    Sadly, so often all someone like this person needs is to take off the blinders and find their OWN path instead of trying to follow everyone else. I've personally found there are those who never do that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jouvan Johnson
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      His card is maxed out because he keeps trying to buy success. You know that and so does anyone with any experience online. Until this person makes the transition from 'show me, lead me, help me, teach me' and started working for himself, nothing much will happen. For now, it will always be the 'other guy's' fault.

      My guess is he will sign up with you - and before long you'll be hearing the same excuses - but I hope I'm wrong. Would be interested to know how this turns out,
      I couldn't agree with you more.

      You touched on so many great points, I hope people read your response and take it to heart.

      Like most, even I love to consume information and learn more but to get to where I am today, I had to make the transitions from consumer to creator.

      Tip for anyone reading this, spend at least 80% of my time creating and only 20% or less learning.

      Even better spend 80% or more of your time on revenue-producing activities like, emailing your list, spending on ads, copywriting etc
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  • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
    Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

    A subscriber emailed me the following...

    ==========================

    If I'm honest I may have been too nice in hindsight.

    I think I scared him off with the idea of actually having to do some work.

    That's a good though, right? Do you want people like that in your business? Clearly his wounds are self inflicted. He's been punching himself in the face for 5 years now, and wants you to help him cover up another black eye. Trust me, he'll keep punching himself in the face.

    Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

    That's his loss! If he finds it too much work to learn a few new skills and take steps that could change his life forever. Then I don't want to be working with him.
    You should have just told him that, and then deleted him from your list. One bad banana can spoil the bunch.

    Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

    Anyway, my question is.

    How would you have responded to his email, was I too soft on him?
    I would have responded by telling him not to buy from me. That my products won't help him. I would have then deleted him from my list. But that's juts me.

    Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

    Is he always destined to fail because he doesn't take responsibility for what he does and only blames the products he bought?
    It's possible he could change, but I doubt it would come from a product. Sounds like he needs someone holding his hand and almost forcing him to do the work. Even then you can't be sure he'll do it. It's possible. Very unlikely though. Oh, and since the guy is not clued into reality, it'll be all your fault, of course. It can't be his. It just can't. Thoughts like that don't fit into minds like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    I probably wouldn't have bothered responding with much more than a, "I don't see how your past failures and experiences have anything to do with me..."
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    I would have probably done the same Jauvan: Thanked the Guy for his eMail, given him some good advice, and left it at that. Honestly, there are more important things a Marketer can be doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Diego Aguirre
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I would have probably done the same Jauvan: Thanked the Guy for his eMail, given him some good advice, and left it at that. Honestly, there are more important things a Marketer can be doing.
      I have had a subscriber reply with those kinds of comments...
      I just replied with very short answers but still, there was something off with the person.
      I wasted time and focus trying to help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    @Jouvan - If this person couldn't get anything going since 2016
    and he's still trying to figure it out, he needs a kick in the pants
    and a dose of reality. Not your friendship and sympathy.

    As many free YouTubes as there are about online marketing, all
    the free ebooks on the various ways to make money online, and
    all the other information that's available for free, and resources
    such as Warrior Forum, there is no excuse for anyone buying a
    bunch of programs and maxing out their credit cards.

    What this person seems to be seeking is passive online income
    (or something similar) without having to do any actual work, or
    hiring someone to do the work, which is just about impossible.

    You seem to be such a friendly chap but you will only drag
    yourself down with these types of hangers-on.

    Do yourself a favor and let it go. Move on and try not to think
    about it and if he contacts you again, ignore him.

    And everyone else like him.

    People like this are a total waste of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I don't know how often you get similar emails, but I think more than anything you have a response you can cut and paste and possibly send out quite often

    There is no nicer way to respond to someone basically admitting to looking for someone to do work for them they should be doing for themselves
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    I think it's interesting to hear the scammed and cheated words again. We've heard them plenty of times here.

    I don't know much about the guys that he mentioned (I've heard of them over the years but never joined myself) but I'm sure that no matter what they are teaching they aren't scammers and cheats in the sense that what they share 100% doesn't work.

    And it doesn't matter the particulars of a program, because it's a common defense or excuse for failure. There may have been a transaction gone wrong, that happens in every business, but to equate not being able to work the system to being cheated and scammed is over the top.

    It happens in every industry. For example, there are a lot of people that say Weight Watchers doesn't work even as millions say it does. Keto is a scam even as millions succeed.

    The great majority of these IM programs are the same. People succeed even while others call them scammers and cheaters.

    I would bet that this person could go back to the programs he mentioned, with a new mindset, new work ethic, new humility, and a new focus and succeed.

    I had to learn that the hard way (and am still learning it): my success or failure is mostly due to my own behavior because the great majority of these programs work for someone. The reason they may not for me, is because of me and not them.

    Mark
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  • Online success takes smart work and discipline. You have to master your craft daily and treat it as a full-time business, in oder to derive a sustainable monthly $$$$$$$$$ income from it.

    Your subscriber has shiny object syndrome, and wants to push 3 buttons and have a zillion $ in his bank account.

    In order for him to make money online, he will have to consistently put in time & effort daily to tweak and perfect his online sales process.
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Ever since I have been a member on here there have always been tales of whoa , Sticking to what works and not going for the shiny object is by far the best path for anyone trying to make money online
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  • Profile picture of the author erealmz
    It sounds like you offered him something with the subliminal promise of "doing the work for him".

    I've seen this angle far too many times... And it usually comes with a money back guarantee. If the user cannot jump through enough hoops to prove that your product doesn't work for him, he can kiss that refund goodbye.

    Most people are too lazy to even do that, let alone whatever it takes to succeed, and therefore feel like they have been scammed.

    It seems like he just isn't ready. He needs to work on himself, stop making excuses and learn to self-improve before he can start making money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
    Hi Jouvan

    It's good that you made it clear that it wasn't going to be easy. It's not worth your time and effort on someone who isn't willing to commit and do the work required to succeed.

    Alot of it is mindset and you're right having a victim mindset, not learning from admitting his mistakes means he's less likely to succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author N1coleW
    Well, I think if you are confident in your work then you don't need to blame yourself in his mistakes and take the responsibility on yourself for that. Your answer was fine, he have to realise his responsibility and meet consequences
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  • Profile picture of the author Jouvan Johnson
    Reading all these messages has been truly eye-opening.

    My takeaway is that I should not have mollycoddled him and given it to him straight.

    "making money online is simple, but that doesn't mean it is easy."

    Then pressed him on what he actually did with the information from those previous courses or did he just consume them to get a dopamine hit of knowledge then pulled out the credit card to buy another dose of dopamine.

    Did he create an offer, did he have a squeeze page, did he buy traffic, did he communicate with his list etc.

    Thank you for your insight folks, this has been very useful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Monetize
      Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

      Reading all these messages has been truly eye-opening.

      My takeaway is that I should not have mollycoddled him and given it to him straight.

      "making money online is simple, but that doesn't mean it is easy."

      Then pressed him on what he actually did with the information from those previous courses or did he just consume them to get a dopamine hit of knowledge then pulled out the credit card to buy another dose of dopamine.

      Did he create an offer, did he have a squeeze page, did he buy traffic, did he communicate with his list etc.

      Thank you for your insight folks, this has been very useful.

      You did what you thought was appropriate at the time and that is fine.
      There's really no use in second guessing besides being prepared for
      the next time you encounter this type of person.

      Even if you are in the coaching/consulting business, these types are a
      drag because they either buy the books and courses and never even
      bother to look at them, or they study them but convince themselves
      that what is being taught will never work, or they are procrastinators
      or any number of excuses. And they can't come up with any business
      ideas of their own.

      You're always going to encounter these types of people.
      I do my best to avoid them.
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  • Profile picture of the author oppyeaunome
    This blows my mind. Most people are struggling online not because of a lack of information, but a lack of taking action on that information.

    I was the same way. I thought with each course that I bought that this was the magic bullet to make all the money I ever wanted. All I needed to learn was how to take action on the information I already knew.

    Once I consistently started taking action I was able to start making some sort of money online.

    I don't think you were soft on him. There are just some things we have to learn while growing our online businesses.
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    • Profile picture of the author bertviln
      Originally Posted by oppyeaunome View Post

      This blows my mind. Most people are struggling online not because of a lack of information, but a lack of taking action on that information.

      I was the same way. I thought with each course that I bought that this was the magic bullet to make all the money I ever wanted. All I needed to learn was how to take action on the information I already knew.

      Once I consistently started taking action I was able to start making some sort of money online.

      I don't think you were soft on him. There are just some things we have to learn while growing our online businesses.
      How did you learn to take action ? I've been trying for many years. Maybe some people need hierarchy to tell them what to do and to check on them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ZephyrIon
    The question is ... does he have cash if his credit card is maxed out?
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  • Profile picture of the author davehayes
    Im with the vast majority on this thread, for sure
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  • Profile picture of the author Rory Singh
    Your customer is stuck in buying mode trying to find a product that will sell itself some how.

    Most people online are stuck there too and have a problem with committing to 1 good product to sell and mastering 1 traffic strategy that converts.

    It all comes down to people switching over to a producer and Entrepreneur Mindset (that many cant get passed).

    You can not help anyone that isn't willing to take action or responsibility.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

    A subscriber emailed me the following...

    ==========================


    How would you have responded to his email, was I too soft on him?

    Is he always destined to fail because he doesn't take responsibility for what he does and only blames the products he bought?

    Let me know,

    Jouvan
    You've had some good answers, and gives you food for thought. Allow me to toss out one other consideration...

    Who one wants as a customer to BEGIN WITH.

    I know, I really do know, that the whole of IM is mostly dive in head first and check for rocks later.

    And some of the hardest rocks one hits are CUSTOMERS/CLIENTS/CONSUMERS.

    It is mostly non existent in this IM world, thinking up front of WHO you want to begin with.

    I'd love to find some real stats, but until then, my best guesses will do...and I think that at least 90% of all IM start-ups are...

    SOLO-PRENEURS, one man and one woman bands playing their own fiddle and dancing to the tune they THINK they want to hear, which is most often:

    easy=peasy, make money online just follow the PLAN, or blueprint, or formula.

    And I have yet, in 35 years of online marketing found one that starts with this simple question: WHO do you want as a Customer/Client/Consumer???

    Again, my best GUESS would be not 1 in 1000 start with that, but by being picky upfront and knowing who you do want to work with or for, can save a lot of time and headache down the road.

    Even in the affiliate game, and in the MMO, choosing low rung buyers, hawking cheap products to people who don't have money to begin with, and although this is the de facto entry into affiliate marketing...it is the one sure way to get people like they guy who sent you his "I've been scammed..." email.

    Probably a discussion for its own thread, but if one takes the time to figure out who the customer is going to be, it not only makes the effort clearer, but the path much shorter, so instead of spending 5 years to reach a 10k a month income, one might be able to do it in only 2 years by giving time and thought to picking higher up the tree fruit.

    Just a thought,

    Nothing you can do now, but for your next project or future, consider starting with the end result and WHO you will be serving first, OK?

    GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Interesting post: Thanks Gordon. My 2C would be looking at prospects/customers/etc. as real People that have real needs, hopes, ambitions, and desires (etc.) ... And when you can cater to all that -- amazing things happen. Again, just my point of view.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        Interesting post: Thanks Gordon. My 2C would be looking at prospects/customers/etc. as real People that have real needs, hopes, ambitions, and desires (etc.) ... And when you can cater to all that -- amazing things happen. Again, just my point of view.
        I think I agree with you, however...

        I'm not sure what you wrote, please correct me if I'm wrong, OK?

        I understand all marketing, and especially IM involves looking at people's needs, wants, ambition and hopes. Maybe they have desire too.

        Do you think some IM see people as just a dollar sign, trying to get all the money they can out of someone? There certainly are plenty of those types around, eh?

        Lets look at the CATERING part of it, shall we?

        A popular THEORY is the Maslow Pyramid idea of human needs, and although it can be very useful it can also be wrongly used. But for our discussion, here is how I see Affiliate Marketing (AM) happening:

        Here at WF, everyday someone is advised to start affiliate marketing, because it is so easy to get into. Many of these new people to the game, look at the Make Money Online niches, because that is their need/want. They are that market.

        These people correspond to the lower level of the Maslow Pyramid, and I'd bet that is where you will find the folks like Jouvan's email sender...trying to make money online via affiliate marketing because he has been told it was easy (and it is, to start).

        The problem is, this "burned" victim tries to sell to the other people in his situation. Bottom of the pyramid, most with little extra cash to spend, trying to take care of basic needs.

        It makes sense, in their minds, because they KNOW and belong to that group.

        And this appears to be a big problem with introductions to AM. Little business background, little to no expertise, just a "desire" as you say.

        What I am saying is, there are huge markets in the upper areas of Maslow Pyramid. And it is just as easy to go after those people, with disposal income, accustomed to spending for what they want, and one can CATER to that market without the headaches of those who are afraid to spend their last dime because they don't get a guarantee of success.

        I have NO idea of what Dean Holland's actual funnel is, I know there is a FREE book, a low cost 59 dollar membership. Heavy affiliate offers, to get more affiliates, looks pretty typical (without taking an in-depth look). The "burned victim", apparently didn't think much of it, and this is where several people called him and his ilk to the carpet.

        I thought Jovan handled it nicely, for that one time...and now is better prepared for these guys in the future.

        An example: a newbie could sell a report on how to get a job on a cruise ship, and that would be a low end product. OR a newbie could offer OCEANSCAPE adventures and pocket over 1k. Is it tougher to market upper end or luxury products? Time spent is time...spent.

        During a launch, of a 2k program, it is not unusual to get a 1k affiliate commission, against a 10 dollar commission for a report or book.

        Anyhow, as far as CATERING to your prospects, I'm simply saying to raise the scope and aim at higher targets, the higher up the pyramid, all those "victims" of the so-called scams fall away...until you get to the very top point, where the 1% live, and they have their Bernie Madoffs to worry about.

        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Sure. Thanks Gordon. I suppose my point was that it's not all about "Marketing Tactics" (etc.) ... It's about how much a Person/Marketer really cares about their Market/People. That said, I'm only a Marketing Student.

          Thanks for the reply.
          : )
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Maybe some people need hierarchy to tell them what to do and to check on them.
    That's called a 'job'. If you can't work without hand holding or supervision...you have an employee mindset. Nothing wrong with that - but to succeed online you have to be the BEST employee AND boss.

    So many people make 'taking action' and 'finding motivation' huge goals....and in that way they put off DOING anything...

    Decide WHAT you want to do online (i.e., freelancing, affiliate marketing, etc etc) - learn the BASICS of how to get started....

    MAKE a simple list of 5-10 things you need to do (i.e., research a niche, start a blog, create a portfolio, whatever). Focus on what other people (your customers) want - not on the money you hope to make.

    Go to #1 on YOUR list - learn it - do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Whoa, I saw the title and kept looking in your Post to see where you were scammed or cheated. But I get it ....the guy emailing you has been.

    Well, Iam with Mike on this one as I wouldn't have wasted my time on him. There are so many sob stories I have run into I cannot count them.

    Basically, 100% of them could have avoided the pain if they realized going into to this 'game' that there are no shortcuts at all. And realize that there would be times where they might feel like giving up. Determination and Consistency are two elements that this Business requires. I know that sounds cliché but it's the truth !

    It does not seize to amaze me how people come in here ( and elsewhere) thinking that this stuff just happens overnight or within just a few weeks.

    It DOESN'T !!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jouvan Johnson
    How the heck did I miss all these messages until now. The perspectives from everyone has been amazing. Thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    something is obviously off here, he needs to take action, not just being spoon fed n hoping someone or some training can give him success just by paying . it's no pay to win , except if he buys dfy service instead of a training.


    he can start buying revenue generating website I think, so that he can know the difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicenet
    I think the guy is still learning. One day, he'll toss out his blindfold and get to work.
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