Making money, 101 to 999...your thoughts?

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From: You don't get paid for doing nothing to totally passive income in huge chunks.

Sure, money isn't EVERYTHING. It doesn't beat faith, family, friends or health.

But it pretty much nails everything else, and certainly can enhance those really important things too.

It is a much more friendly world out there to people who have less concern about money, and it is a constant sorrow, headache and heartache for those who don't have enough.

And my opinion as to why so many struggle is: the IMPORTANCE of knowing how to make money, isn't taught in our school systems. It never was, probably never will be. It doesn't serve Big Education's agenda.

Well, I'm not going down that rabbit hole today, although I could, and maybe when I have my own daily radio program, I will...

but, even the very basics of handling money are deemed less important in most school systems.

And as a result, so many people fall into patterns of what they see, what they are exposed to, and it is hard to overcome some of those habits. It is the reason why Rich Dad, Poor Dad strikes a nerve...and why so many families of wealth, remain that way for generations whereas families of lack and even poverty keep recreating themselves.

So, you don't get paid for doing nothing, right? And there are those making massive amounts of money from passive ways, like oil leases, or even dividends or interest on assets they have.

And one thing I know for certain is, it is pert near impossible to go from the A (nothing) to Z (massive passive income) in a single leap or bound, barring luck, like lottery winnings or such.

But there is stairway, steps taken, routinely, daily and consistently which lead from the lower levels to the upper ones. And there are escalators, even speed elevators which makes ascension happen faster.

So, I have a question for you all, for anyone really...what, in your opinion is the best book, course or information on gaining an understanding of how money works, how to get it, keep it and make it work for you.

I have my own "ideas" of what this would be, but I want yours too.

GordonJ
#101 #999your #making #money #thoughts
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    I could name several but the one that changed things for me is

    The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity by Catherine Ponder

    She has written several other books in this series which I would
    also recommend but that first book is essential.

    If I had not read that book at an early age my whole life would
    be totally different, and not in a good way. Please do yourself a
    favor and read this book and apply its principles to your life,
    if you haven't done so already.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Classic book, classy lady. Many of the New Thought teachers are tossed our way as a means of learning to make money, including many of Ponder's "mentors"; including the Fillmores, Mary Baker Eddy, etc. Today, Charles F. Haanel, Napoleon Hill, and even Tony Robbins lead the field in the positive thinking/mindset ideas.

      But none of those teach how to balance a checkbook, read a financial report, understand the bookkeeping of business or the mechanics of a business.

      Sure, mindset is THE key, I wouldn't argue that point, but less faith based systems are instrumental in teaching people how to make and manage money.

      It is a great book. Balance out "manifestation" with practical, tested and proven business methodology. I'd like to see where they meet, although Tony Robbins comes close.

      GordonJ

      Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

      I could name several but the one that changed things for me is

      The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity by Catherine Ponder

      She has written several other books in this series which I would
      also recommend but that first book is essential.

      If I had not read that book at an early age my whole life would
      be totally different, and not in a good way. Please do yourself a
      favor and read this book and apply its principles to your life,
      if you haven't done so already.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Hi Gordon.

    Although you briefly mentioned it, I would definitely recommend "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" (By Robert Kiyosaki). Reading his series of books was informative, enlightening, and even mind-blowing ... I suppose a good "takeaway" would be that the Middle class are accumulating liabilities (including houses) that they think are assets.

    (Just search Amazon.com or Wikipedia for more information.)
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Hi Gordon.

      Although you briefly mentioned it, I would definitely recommend "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" (By Robert Kiyosaki). Reading his series of books was informative, enlightening, and even mind-blowing ... I suppose a good "takeaway" would be that the Middle class are accumulating liabilities (including houses) that they think are assets.

      (Just search Amazon.com or Wikipedia for more information.)
      Like you mentioned, he shows us how different the thinking is between those of wealth, and those without. What often gets overlooked in his story, is the Poor Dad/Poor Kid history...what took them to that point before they got the education.

      I think it is a great book to take a look at "from here forward", but as we see here, and there is no better archive, library or curation on the Internet than the Warrior Forum for both success stories and failure.

      Some early day Warriors are now the revered Gurus of IM. The longest failure I remember is a Warrior who spent 11 years and had nothing to show for it. What was the difference? Why did one spin his wheels for a decade and the other go onto to superstardom marketer?

      The biggest fall I recall, is a Warrior who made over 100K one year and less than 9k the next, blaming Google algorithms for his fall, I don't think he ever returned to that mountain top.

      My opinion is that the failure isn't as armed with practical how to and the failure doesn't know how to manage money, or time for that matter, but I'd like some debate.

      Rich Dad/Poor Dad opened up eyes to see the disparity of wealth, and some of the why too. I think it being a must read book in one's library.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Interesting. : ) Thanks.

        Yeah I agree -- it's definitely a must-read for Marketers/Entrepreneurs/etc. From what I have learned, Wealthy People think completely different than (relatively) Poor People. Another book I would recommend is "Secrets Of The Millionaire Mind" (By T. Harv Eker) Again -- if anyone is like me -- they will find it very empowering and helpful.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Interesting. : ) Thanks.

          Yeah I agree -- it's definitely a must-read for Marketers/Entrepreneurs/etc. From what I have learned, Wealthy People think completely different than (relatively) Poor People. Another book I would recommend is "Secrets Of The Millionaire Mind" (By T. Harv Eker) Again -- if anyone is like me -- they will find it very empowering and helpful.
          In addition to a positive attitude and mindset, here are a handful of books which one might check into that are more attuned to business:

          Greg Crabtree: SIMPLE NUMBERS
          Mike Michalowicz: PROFIT FIRST
          Ben Suarez: 7 STEPS TO FREEDOM II

          These take more of a look at the bottom line and how to keep it black not red.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Cool. : ) Thanks for the share.
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            • Hi Gordon,

              In my case, books don't work for me as much as practical experience does.
              • And I'm speaking as someone who was born from poverty in a developing country and ended up as a blind unemployed student with a family in the same developing country in my early 20s.
              • I think this might likely be quite different compared to coming from poverty in a highly industrialized country, with or without a disability like total blindness.
              • Especially as the governments of many of these industrialized countries usually offer more support programs, subsidized learning and so on ...

              But I can say that fundamental knowledge works for me though.
              • I learned relevant fundamental stuff from university, through my undergraduate in mathematics.
              • Especially from probabilistic statistical modelling.
              • Meanwhile, my wife shares her knowledge in bookkeeping and accountancy.

              Though I continue to learn more from practical experience.
              • This includes running multiple micro and small entrepreneurial ventures across various niches, raising seed financing and sourcing grants for suitable projects.
              • And also from listening to the experience of others who are now in particular situations similar to when I started, i.e. Blind and visually impaired Filipinos in their early 20s to late 40s who have recently started venturing into small and micro businesses, ecommerce, affiliate marketing, crypto and stock trading and service arbitrage ...

              But of course -- I'd greatly appreciate recommendations for books that I could try and hopefully find to be suitable (and obviously helpful) for my situation.
              Cheers!
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                MvM, you are an inspirational Warrior, and much appreciated here.
                Stevie Wonder has a net worth over a 100 million dollars, and a lot of that comes from owning Intellectual Property.

                Your ideas in the other thread, about band management, are pretty good ones for our times.

                If you have TIME, always a bugaboo, if you haven't listened to Stevie Wonders bio, Signed, Sealed and Delivered, it might be worth your time.

                Also, investigate potential TOLL POSITIONS you already have and can expand on, and the world is full of businesses which need fresh ideas. Thanks for sharing and participating. I feel licensing would be a strong suit for you.

                GordonJ

                Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

                Hi Gordon,

                In my case, books don't work for me as much as practical experience does.
                • And I'm speaking as someone who was born from poverty in a developing country and ended up as a blind unemployed student with a family in the same developing country in my early 20s.
                • I think this might likely be quite different compared to coming from poverty in a highly industrialized country, with or without a disability like total blindness.
                • Especially as the governments of many of these industrialized countries usually offer more support programs, subsidized learning and so on ...

                But I can say that fundamental knowledge works for me though.
                • I learned relevant fundamental stuff from university, through my undergraduate in mathematics.
                • Especially from probabilistic statistical modelling.
                • Meanwhile, my wife shares her knowledge in bookkeeping and accountancy.

                Though I continue to learn more from practical experience.
                • This includes running multiple micro and small entrepreneurial ventures across various niches, raising seed financing and sourcing grants for suitable projects.
                • And also from listening to the experience of others who are now in particular situations similar to when I started, i.e. Blind and visually impaired Filipinos in their early 20s to late 40s who have recently started venturing into small and micro businesses, ecommerce, affiliate marketing, crypto and stock trading and service arbitrage ...

                But of course -- I'd greatly appreciate recommendations for books that I could try and hopefully find to be suitable (and obviously helpful) for my situation.
                Cheers!
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                • I'll definitely check out Stevie Wonder's bio -- There's an Audible audio edition in Amazon! Greatly appreciate the recommendation and the other things you mentioned, Gordon. Cheers!
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    • Yes, reading this book Rich Dad Poor Dad Change my life for the better. Read it understand it and it will change your mindset.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      I think the major point of this book is MINDSET and showing how the surroundings and mental attitudes of those around us during our formative years, affect us. Today at WF, there are several threads in different areas which address this, sort of.

      First, I'm in agreement with those that think many Warriors undercharge and are asking for pennies and not getting dollars for their work. Raise your prices.

      Another thread in the mind forum, we're on about SELF IMAGE and Identity, and how this ties in with Rich Dad Poor Dad (RDHD hereafter) is fairly direct.

      If our minds have been filled with negativity instead of possibility, there will tend to be a flow of money in that direction, or a lack of flow.

      What many do not understand is, the VALUE of what you have to offer. It helps to seperate what we do from what the market will pay.

      Take for example, a web designer, whereas many a Warrior can make a few hundred dollars from doing this, others are making THOUSANDS of dollars and why the huge gap?

      The VALUE we see in ourselves and not in the VALUE to the buyer or consumer, or customer/client.

      We have to walk in our customers shoes and not our own so we can see VALUE from their perspective. Again, IDENTITY of who we are and what we bring is often sabotaged by our deeper feelings about being worthy or not.

      Making money is all about EXCHANGING VALUE.

      The very fastest way to make more money, is ... UP the value you are giving to your CCC (customers, consumers, clients) and that is mostly about a mindset you bring with you to the game to start with.

      101 is, again...no one gets paid for doing nothing, even lottery winners have to buy or steal a ticket.

      And as long as you are being paid for doing something, deliver MORE value than they expect, and charge accordingly. That is the 101 of it all and too many Warrriors are stubbing their toes on the 101 table.

      GordonJ




      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Hi Gordon.

      Although you briefly mentioned it, I would definitely recommend "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" (By Robert Kiyosaki). Reading his series of books was informative, enlightening, and even mind-blowing ... I suppose a good "takeaway" would be that the Middle class are accumulating liabilities (including houses) that they think are assets.

      (Just search Amazon.com or Wikipedia for more information.)
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Hi GordonJ

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Another thread in the mind forum, we're on about SELF IMAGE and Identity, and how this ties in with Rich Dad Poor Dad (RDHD hereafter) is fairly direct.

        If our minds have been filled with negativity instead of possibility, there will tend to be a flow of money in that direction, or a lack of flow.
        Yup. Unfortunately many people received "negative conditioning" from their Parents. (Often not just about money ― about Life in general as well.) That's one of the reasons why "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is such a great book for Apprentice Entrepreneurs/Millionaires/Marketers/etc. They're learning what wealthy People understand about money and success that the "average" Person doesn't know about.

        Believing that something is possible is important ― a Person has to have the belief that somehow, someway success is possible ― that if they really apply themselves, they can make their goal(s) a reality.

        Sometimes that takes a lot of work and belief in themselves and what they want to accomplish. As Hellen Keller said: "Life is a either a daring adventure or nothing."

        So don't settle for "average." Dream big ― and make your dream happen.

        Something that isn't often mentioned is "Self-Esteem." Usually if a Person has high "Self-Esteem" they are more likely to believe in themselves and not be discouraged by "failure." (It's not a prerequisite, however it does certainly help.)

        P.S .
        "The 6 Pillars Of Self-Esteem" is a good book. (See Amazon.com) Essentially they are: Living Consciously. Self-Acceptance. Self-Responsibility. Self-Assertiveness. Living Purposefully. Personal Integrity.

        HTH
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post


          (edited for response)

          Believing that something is possible is important ― a Person has to have the belief that somehow, someway success is possible ― that if they really apply themselves, they can make their goal(s) a reality.

          So don't settle for "average." Dream big ― and make your dream happen.

          HTH
          Belief is probably the first step for most people, although a small % achieve without believing they could.
          The problem with DREAM BIG or as the famous best seller book, THE MAGIC OF THINKING BIG by David Schwartz is...

          ...as you stated, a lack of belief. See?

          Hard to dream big, THINK big, when one has low self esteem.

          Hill covered this in Think And Grow Rich, overcoming this via a Mastermind group or association. Jim Straw thought it could be overcome with a mastermind between only two people, a mentor-mentee.

          Others say to have less self focus, and try to help others and in doing that, you build self esteem.

          From a practical IM make money idea, the Mentor is a good model, IF IT SUITS one. But there has to be a progression from where one is to where one is going. Almost all good mentoring has ACCOUNTABILITY built into it, we don't want to let our mentor down, or even worse, he keeps our money and disappears. Always got me motivated.

          Having skin in the game as the old saying suggests, is one way to keep on track, even if belief is lacking, did I do this today as I was supposed to? THE RESULT is found through daily results of doing an assignment, not necessarily with belief, but rather with the pain of losing money if we don't do it.

          I agree belief is the first step, or should be, but if a low self image or low self esteem or an Identity of doubt exists, the first step might be to somehow overcome that.

          Thanks for the link about the pillars, one of many good books on the subject.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Hi GordonJ.

            Thanks for the David Schwartz recommendation. Another great book. : )

            Regarding "Thinking Big" ― sometimes having low "Self-Esteem" can be the "catalyst" for wanting to achieve more in Life. Something I learned from Napoleon Hill and W. Clement Stone ("Success Through A Positive Mental Attitude") is something they call:

            "Inspirational Dissatisfaction." Basically like it sounds: Being dissatisfied by something can be the inspiration for achieving more.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Thanks for bringing this into play, we don't discuss it enough. Sometimes this Inspirational Dissatisfaction (ID from here), is the catalyst to action and overcoming low self esteem.

              A clear picture is the famous Charles Atlas cartoon ad showing a skinny kid getting sand kicked in his face, the before ID, and then impressing his girl after building up his muscles all thanks to Chaz At.

              Normally, for a person with low self esteem to have this type of ID reaction will require an "inciting incident", like the sand in the face from the bully.

              Sometimes it is revenge, an I'll show you. But all too often, as we have seen in school shootings across the country, the person might take action, but of a negative/destructive nature.

              We, of course, want positive reaction/motivation from our ID.

              As a marketer, or a copywriter, we want to appeal to that dissatisifaction in our prospect and become the inspiration for their action.

              We don't talk enough about it, but it comes in handy, when marketing to dissatisfied people IF we have a satisfactory solution for them.

              GordonJ

              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Hi GordonJ.

              Thanks for the David Schwartz recommendation. Another great book. : )

              Regarding "Thinking Big" ― sometimes having low "Self-Esteem" can be the "catalyst" for wanting to achieve more in Life. Something I learned from Napoleon Hill and W. Clement Stone ("Success Through A Positive Mental Attitude") is something they call:

              "Inspirational Dissatisfaction." Basically like it sounds: Being dissatisfied by something can be the inspiration for achieving more.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                Thanks for bringing this into play, we don't discuss it enough. Sometimes this Inspirational Dissatisfaction (ID from here), is the catalyst to action and overcoming low self esteem.
                Welcome. : ) Many times I hope.

                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                A clear picture is the famous Charles Atlas cartoon ad showing a skinny kid getting sand kicked in his face, the before ID, and then impressing his girl after building up his muscles all thanks to Chaz At.

                Normally, for a person with low self esteem to have this type of ID reaction will require an "inciting incident", like the sand in the face from the bully.
                Maybe so: However that's not always the case. A Person can have a general sense of low "Self-Esteem" and still be motivated to do something amazing with their Life.

                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                Sometimes it is revenge, an I'll show you. But all too often, as we have seen in school shootings across the country, the person might take action, but of a negative/destructive nature.

                We, of course, want positive reaction/motivation from our ID.
                Well Duh.

                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                As a marketer, or a copywriter, we want to appeal to that dissatisifaction in our prospect and become the inspiration for their action.

                We don't talk enough about it, but it comes in handy, when marketing to dissatisfied people IF we have a satisfactory solution for them.
                Sure ― and that's the most important part. Many Marketers cater to their Market without really helping them.

                2C
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  So that maybe we are all on the same page here, and to ensure that I am interpreting correctly...

                  @socialentry, at this moment in time does not have anything to sell, so there is no marketing of product or service or target or hiden agenda. They are embarking on a learning process, to become familiar with and understand Machine Learning.

                  Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                  snips from Arxiv,
                  There is probably a handful on WF that know what this is: ( https://arxiv.org/ ) and even after many click on that link there will still only be a handful that know what this is ( hahaha )

                  I am going to ASSUME - an aspiration here is to publish on Arxiv. A lofty aspiration.

                  @socialentry as I am seeing it, needs to document their educational process, much like a Degree on the wall. We are talking about Authority here.. the building of specifically. The Product or Service, might come later... OR there maybe some kick tail Job interview.

                  The greater and broader point is developing the site development skills... developing the Content creation skills, Neutralizing the doubt - in this case the edit edit edit..oh thats not good enough mentality. Just let it rip, It was probably better than good enough,and it was the edits that made it bleh - Oh I have so been there done that.

                  I personally have a forum almost like the one we are on right now, that is offline and used internally and all of the programmers and myself post code snippets etc as a library. Could have very easily done it online - and WOULD HAVE done this online, if there was a need to develop Authority

                  If nothing else what is being built is a diary of sorts... hopefully a library that YOU ( socialentry ) can use and refer to as a reminder when needed of what you have learned, and tried etc. If you keep it up, it will be an absolute ASSET, to YOU for sure, and those that find and read it.

                  Like I stated before, you have nothing to lose, AND no need to gain outside of yourself and that is where winning begins.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    So that maybe we are all on the same page here, and to ensure that I am interpreting correctly...

                    @socialentry, at this moment in time does not have anything to sell, so there is no marketing of product or service or target or hiden agenda. They are embarking on a learning process, to become familiar with and understand Machine Learning.



                    There is probably a handful on WF that know what this is: ( https://arxiv.org/ ) and even after many click on that link there will still only be a handful that know what this is ( hahaha )

                    I am going to ASSUME - an aspiration here is to publish on Arxiv. A lofty aspiration.

                    @socialentry as I am seeing it, needs to document their educational process, much like a Degree on the wall. We are talking about Authority here.. the building of specifically. The Product or Service, might come later... OR there maybe some kick tail Job interview.

                    The greater and broader point is developing the site development skills... developing the Content creation skills, Neutralizing the doubt - in this case the edit edit edit..oh thats not good enough mentality. Just let it rip, It was probably better than good enough,and it was the edits that made it bleh - Oh I have so been there done that.

                    I personally have a forum almost like the one we are on right now, that is offline and used internally and all of the programmers and myself post code snippets etc as a library. Could have very easily done it online - and WOULD HAVE done this online, if there was a need to develop Authority

                    If nothing else what is being built is a diary of sorts... hopefully a library that YOU ( socialentry ) can use and refer to as a reminder when needed of what you have learned, and tried etc. If you keep it up, it will be an absolute ASSET, to YOU for sure, and those that find and read it.

                    Like I stated before, you have nothing to lose, AND no need to gain outside of yourself and that is where winning begins.

                    You are right about that. But much more exciting...

                    I watched a guy hack a chip on YouTube and helped a guy recover a password that unlocked $2 Million Dollars.

                    https://www.youtube.com/c/JoeGrand
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                    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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                      Meta took an epic dive in it's Stock price an Zuck got very specific in regards to TIK TOK an they are very focused now on Instagram Reels.

                      They already had in place cash incentives for creators of short videos (many are not even aware of) but you can bet they are going to roll out alot more ways to get paid from video shorts.

                      Could be some great additional income.
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                • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                  Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post


                  ... and that's the most important part. Many Marketers cater to their Market without really helping them.

                  2C
                  Maybe this is true, but only the person can say this. The "market" are people in general, and maybe with a common problem, want or need.

                  But as for the HELP they get, that gets down to an indivdual level and I would reject a blanket statement about many marketers.

                  There are many times the "help" may come from ownership or possession of a given marketers knowledge. The application, if it is needed, is always left in the hands of the buyer. But there are "MANY" marketers who cater to their market and don't know (or care) if it helps or not.

                  An example of this can be seen in the Copywriter as a Biz-Op field, where many a would be copywriter has his Bat Cave and offices' bookshelves filled with courses, books and all things copywriting in his possession, but can't write a promotion to pay for his Starbucks latte.

                  It hardly falls upon the marketer where results of their marketing are dependent on doing or applying.

                  There are scams of course, and some borderline offers, but most marketers deliver what they offer.

                  As for it being of HELP, that depends.

                  GordonJ
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                • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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                  I love observing and evaluating Funnels. Here is a simple but very effective one.

                  It is a Yahoo Article with perfectly planted and relevant Amazon links.

                  I am not sure if the original article gets the commission or Yahoo but it is a great example of a transactional type post same as "Comparisons."

                  https://sports.yahoo.com/stronger-ha...012517475.html
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

                    I love observing and evaluating Funnels. Here is a simple but very effective one.

                    It is a Yahoo Article with perfectly planted and relevant Amazon links.

                    I am not sure if the original article gets the commission or Yahoo but it is a great example of a transactional type post same as "Comparisons."

                    https://sports.yahoo.com/stronger-ha...012517475.html
                    Thanks Profit Traveler, this article is a very good mini article (affiliate) template because:

                    It states a premise, how stronger hands can benefit/prevent pain...based on RESEARCH right up front and then deftly inserts the links to products. Thanks for sharing this, and I could create a dozen articles using this template to offer almost anything.

                    The 'secret' sauce is to get the article read, or picked up by a feed that has large numbers of readers, but it would be easy to post several of these a day.

                    Good find.

                    GordonJ
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                • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                  Originally Posted by GordonJ

                  A job vs a business, or income. From what I understand from this dialog, and I may not understand most of it, is there is someone who doesn't really know what they want, and is now going to get a job. Or did I miss something?
                  You did, but I left out a lot of details so I get why it can be open to misinterpretation. So that's on me. TLDR version: No data. No supercomputer. Whatever I pick today, in 4-5 years,all roads lead to Rome.
                  More as to why at an Internet MARKETING forum,...
                  Well,if the FAANGs aren't internet marketers, then pray tell: who is?
                  My confusion, is about anyone who does not have a passion, doesn't know what they want to do, or where to go next after failing in IM,is about how to help that person proceed.
                  You don't need to feel like I'm expecting everyone to have answers.

                  .I get the gist that a lot of people on the WF are not actually looking for money, they're looking for a higher purpose or a lifestyle and they hope IM is an embodiment of this.

                  I'm not one of them. To me, IM is a tool, like a wrench. Same thing with sales, copywriting, etc.Tools hold no metaphysical value to me.
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                    .I get the gist that a lot of people on the WF are not actually looking for money, they're looking for a higher purpose or a lifestyle and they hope IM is an embodiment of this.

                    I'm not one of them. To me, IM is a tool, like a wrench. Same thing with sales, copywriting, etc.Tools hold no metaphysical value to me.
                    This is so well articulated... TOOLS... A REALLY hard concept to get people to understand... even as clear as this is written, i dont think most will understand.

                    Thanks for sharing this!
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  • I think the reason we are not taught how to actually make money is that it isn't socially acceptable to talk about how to make money.

    It's acceptable to talk about saving money, managing money, donating money, even getting a job.

    But making money? No.
    Why? Because the vast...vast majority of ways to make money, every facet of it, strikes the majority of people as either manipulative, cheating, taking advantage of people, or evil.

    That's why it will never be taught in schools.

    The same with selling. Never. Even "advertising and marketing" are really just institutional advertising. branding, surveys, that sort of thing.

    Educational systems like colleges and institutes teach you how to be great employees.

    Another reason would be...who would teach such classes? Would you want to teach any entrepreneurial subject to a group of college students?

    I wouldn't. Every 5 minutes would be a debate about morality.....about "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer'...about "income inequality".

    I feel like throwing up, just typing the words.
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    • Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Educational systems like colleges and institutes teach you how to be great employees.
      You might be right.
      • Even in primary school, I remember many public and private schools here taught us to bake cupcakes or something then sell it.
      • But they focused solely on the baking or cooking part -- As if paying customers will buy as soon as we serve whatever.
      • They didn't even touch basic business dev. Basic process chain management. Basic selling strategy. Not even the fundamentals of these things ...
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thank goodness I wasn't college material, even had a counselor tell me to take the dummy classes, which I did.

      Back in the covered wagon days, we had AP courses, college prep, shop, auto, secretarial and even 4H, then we had the dummy classes. These were mostly guys who were designated; "don't waste your time on, they'll dropout, be shipped to Vietnam and" that was that.

      So, I had to take BUSINESS MATH. SALESMANSHIP, BUSINESS ENGLISH, all the things far beneath those Harvard or even Kent State bound.

      What a blessing for me. I still keep in touch with the U of Akron business college, where the students actually WANT to learn about making money, and have the teachers and instructors from the business world to teach them. But, I think you may be right, these young people are in the minority.

      But in 10 years, when the other group become Warriors looking to make a buck because they hate their jobs and bosses and everything else in the world, they will be woefully unprepared...unless of course, they listen to me and you and a boy named Sue, and few other savvy Warriors.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I think the reason we are not taught how to actually make money is that it isn't socially acceptable to talk about how to make money.

      It's acceptable to talk about saving money, managing money, donating money, even getting a job.

      But making money? No.
      Why? Because the vast...vast majority of ways to make money, every facet of it, strikes the majority of people as either manipulative, cheating, taking advantage of people, or evil.

      That's why it will never be taught in schools.

      The same with selling. Never. Even "advertising and marketing" are really just institutional advertising. branding, surveys, that sort of thing.

      Educational systems like colleges and institutes teach you how to be great employees.

      Another reason would be...who would teach such classes? Would you want to teach any entrepreneurial subject to a group of college students?

      I wouldn't. Every 5 minutes would be a debate about morality.....about "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer'...about "income inequality".

      I feel like throwing up, just typing the words.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamell
    You made some very intesresting points .Money is a tool and those that "say money isn't everything" usually complain about it the most or have the least .

    I have learned to let my money work for me in capital appreciating assets where it earns compound interest .

    The book I would recommend is intelligent investor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew North
    I grew up in an entrepreneurial family with both my parents, brother, and half of my extended family owning their own businesses so a lot of what I've learned has been passed down in terms of general business sense. The rest was learned from people who are much smarter than I am - some who were simply charismatic and those who had real insights to share with me. I learned from both types of teachers.

    I believe that people generally live up to their own self-concept most of the time. If they aren't an entrepreneurial type of person, to begin with then it's unlikely they would even be interested in growing a million-dollar company. The same applies to comfort zones with how much money people have in the bank. I know people who are talented but are perpetually broke no matter the time of year, while others are always buying the newest cars and going on long trips overseas while being only average people. I feel that it's largely down to your will and intention to make money that allows it to happen. Intelligence and talent are required too, but you only need to be as smart as you need to be depending on the task at hand.

    I learned some of these ideas in a book named Success Is for You: Using Heart-Centered Power Principles for Lasting Abundance and Fulfillment by David R Hawkins. All of his books are great but I thought this one would apply here.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


    Another reason would be...who would teach such classes? Would you want to teach any entrepreneurial subject to a group of college students?

    I wouldn't. Every 5 minutes would be a debate about morality.....about "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer'...about "income inequality".

    I feel like throwing up, just typing the words.
    I recently went back to university to finish a business degree I started in my early 20s, and I can say that the above is true. Most kids taking these courses are liberal, as well as most professors - even in my business course. I don't blame younger people for thinking this way as they don't know any better. They mostly listen to what social media tells them. It would help though if the professors would be the ones to explain that incomes follow a power-law distribution like many other data sets that we can observe in nature and elsewhere. The fact is that the rich do get richer, exponentially so as time goes on. But it's not because they're evil people most of the time, it's just how economics in a free market works. Like other things that follow power-law distributions, wealth is as impersonal and agendaless as the size of raindrops or the growth of forest patches.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Matthew North View Post


      I learned some of these ideas in a book named Success Is for You: Using Heart-Centered Power Principles for Lasting Abundance and Fulfillment by David R Hawkins. All of his books are great but I thought this one would apply here.
      ^^
      ^^ Edited for brevity.

      This is a look at the HOW. The idea of How To... is one of the fastest and easiest entries into the whole world of making money. And we have tons of templates to choose from, but for this post, let us take a look at those who have "mindset", or about thinking, feeling and the doing.

      I see already, many Warriors have been influenced by a book which comes from this niche, call them self improvement, or self enlightenment or personal development teachers but they all have the same basic principles of HOW to create either wealth or steady streams of income (controlling your thinking).

      Mentioned already: Tony Robbins, David Hawkins, Catherine Ponder, Mary Baker Eddy and a couple from marketing, which I will connect here today. Here is a partial list of people offering "Spiritual/Business" advice, and for lack of a better term, the spiritual part covers the spectrum of all belief.

      Wayne Dyer, Esther and Jerry Hicks, Joe Dispenza, Bruce Lipton, Marianne Williamson, Gary Renard, Helen Schucman, Leo Buscaglia, Phil McGraw, Gary Chapman, Gary Zukav, Eckhart Tolle, Don Miguel Ruiz and hundreds of others.

      From our marketing gurus, T. Harv Eker was mentioned, and Joe Vitale has his work too.

      What do they ALL have in common we can learn and borrow from? One thing, IP, Intellectual Property.

      Warrior, do you want a big shortcut? WRITE a book. Or a report, manifesto, guide or simply post your ideas and thoughts on the Internet where there is traffic.

      Almost all of these persons of enlightenment, have made a ton of dough, they aren't living in a van down by the river eating cheese. And one amazing thing, if you have the ability to see the macro, away from any belief or bias...you will see a lot of this is simply OPINION, or some, just made to order ideas to attract a following.

      Before you begin or continue your IM money seeking ventures, ask yourself, what do I have to offer?

      You will see, if you choose to, that those Warriors reaching the 10k a month income level and sustaining have something to offer, the something being what people want and will pay for.

      It isn't about funnels, systems, or methods or platforms even, it is about having SOMETHING to give which people want. Get that, and things take a rapid pivot in your bank accounts.

      Look not only what the teachers say, but also at what they do. And what do they all do? They have something to promote.

      GordonJ
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    • Originally Posted by Matthew North View Post

      The fact is that the rich do get richer, exponentially so as time goes on. But it's not because they're evil people most of the time, it's just how economics in a free market works. Like other things that follow power-law distributions, wealth is as impersonal and agendaless as the size of raindrops or the growth of forest patches.
      Yup.
      Wealthy people just do things that generate more money than they spend. Poor people do things that spent the money they earn.

      Another hard truth is that humans are not equal to each other.

      Intelligence, drive, potential, imagination, desire for more, social skills, attractiveness, emotional stability, ability to think rationally, ambition, work ethic, life experience, family influence...are different for all of us.

      And so we will have different actions, which produce different results.

      I know a truth about salespeople (maybe not true in every field). 10% of the people make 90% of the money. And 1% of the salespeople make 50% of the money.

      Same company, same pay structure, same customer base, same economy.

      Different salesperson. Different capabilities, habits, drive, skills.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Yup.
        Another hard truth is that humans are not equal to each other.

        Intelligence, drive, potential, imagination, desire for more, social skills, attractiveness, emotional stability, ability to think rationally, ambition, work ethic, life experience, family influence...are different for all of us.
        Different salesperson. Different capabilities, habits, drive, skills.
        I hate to say it but this cannot be stressed enough. I know in my lifetime I have come in touch with numerous people who from the onset were NOT born with the innate ability to even comprehend what Success means let alone go out and try to accomplish it.

        Call it DNA, basic intelligence or whatever. It's just NOT there ! It does sound harsh but it is the Truth , and we have all stumbled upon them at one point in our lives.
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        • Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          I hate to say it but this cannot be stressed enough. I know in my lifetime I have come in touch with numerous people who from the onset were NOT born with the innate ability to even comprehend what Success means let alone go out and try to accomplish it.

          Call it DNA, basic intelligence or whatever. It's just NOT there ! It does sound harsh but it is the Truth , and we have all stumbled upon them at one point in our lives.
          Some of it is in the DNA.

          Some of it has to do with where you grew up, what your parent's taught you, who your friends were growing up.

          I was in a group of business owners, driving (In Phoenix, I think) past a very run down area of migrant worker apartments.

          The woman sitting next to me said "Look at those people. They will never be successful in life". She said it with contempt.

          I said "They have no experience with making a good living. They have no idea how to go about it. They don't have the experience or the family examples to see how to change their lives. They work far harder than I ever have. Show them respect".


          Something that is true that you touched on.

          Half of the people on the planet have below average IQs. Most people see rich people as evil. Take salesmen for example. Every movie that has salesmen in it (Boiler Room, Wall Street, Glengarry Glen Ross, Tin Men) all depict salesmen as hucksters..the lowest of the low.

          CEOs are nearly always depicted as evil greedy power hungry men. And that isn't true at all.

          Even geniuses are shown as awkward nerds that have no social skills. Why? Genius is not normal...not attainable for almost everyone. So it has to be seen as something slightly distasteful, to make everyone else feel better.

          That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Yes, you are both right (discrat too).

            Success has many definitions, and is totally subjective. When it comes to either Entrepreneurship or desire to be independent, those people born without much help as far as DNA or childhood experiences have what Napoleon Hill called the Mastermind association, and the ones who overcome their innate limitations are often found with good mentors, role models and associations.

            Sure, not everyone is cut out for Entrepreneurship, but giving the benefit of the doubt to most WARRIORS, who come here to find help, seek mentorship, develop associations and the skills needed to become whatever their version of success means...

            I feel that Warriors, for the most part, are not in that group of the people challenged by DNA or circumstances.

            If making money is a person's idea of success (and for many it is), I know plenty of stupid people in this world who would be considered very successful.

            I'm not trying to argue your points, I agree, just that here, at the WF, I'm going to cut our members some slack, until they prove otherwise.

            And as it goes, making money, especially with IM does not require a lot of brain power or even knowledge but it does ask for persistence and focused activity with adjustments in the directions of one's goals.

            GordonJ

            P.S. To the point of my original post, I wonder how many Warriors use any sort of a Private Label agreement other than PLR? Is anyone getting their stuff via Private Label? I think it would make for a good discussion.


            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Some of it is in the DNA.

            Some of it has to do with where you grew up, what your parent's taught you, who your friends were growing up.

            I was in a group of business owners, driving (In Phoenix, I think) past a very run down area of migrant worker apartments.

            The woman sitting next to me said "Look at those people. They will never be successful in life". She said it with contempt.

            I said "They have no experience with making a good living. They have no idea how to go about it. They don't have the experience or the family examples to see how to change their lives. They work far harder than I ever have. Show them respect".


            Something that is true that you touched on.

            Half of the people on the planet have below average IQs. Most people see rich people as evil. Take salesmen for example. Every movie that has salesmen in it (Boiler Room, Wall Street, Glengarry Glen Ross, Tin Men) all depict salesmen as hucksters..the lowest of the low.

            CEOs are nearly always depicted as evil greedy power hungry men. And that isn't true at all.

            Even geniuses are shown as awkward nerds that have no social skills. Why? Genius is not normal...not attainable for almost everyone. So it has to be seen as something slightly distasteful, to make everyone else feel better.

            That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


              Sure, not everyone is cut out for Entrepreneurship, but giving the benefit of the doubt to most WARRIORS, who come here to find help, seek mentorship, develop associations and the skills needed to become whatever their version of success means...

              I feel that Warriors, for the most part, are not in that group of the people challenged by DNA or circumstances.

              .
              Gordon I would have to agree with you on that one. Although language barriers can be a bit stifling I find those with that problem here have a decent head on their shoulders when it comes to having potential for success in entrepreneurship.

              And like you I find that most people here at WF that post do have that DNA it takes to be successful. But I think the DNA of working hard is what some may be missing. Or is that actually DNA ? May just be upbringing , the environment around them etc..etc..

              Lots of interesting things to ponder.
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Since I don't mind bashing the educational systems of the world, especially in the West and USA in particular... they (so called educational systems) don't teach what is needed.

                And you touched on something important, upbringing and environment.

                There is ONE thing which I have yelled about for decades now, and that is...almost all of tomorrow's goals are based on the today. The past has been forgotten.

                Forgive me if I get a bit esoteric here. See, those self improvement and personal development teachers discussed, tell you to focus on tomorrow.

                What most of them miss out on is the ASSESSMENT of the past. One's old habits, routines and deeply held beliefs are going to be future walls which will stop them dead in their tracks.

                We see it here. Warriors who are told to start NOW, and none of the WSO's, or consultants or advisors tell Warriors to examine their past. I say know what you bring to the table, to know what you have to offer first, then you can expedite your success.

                And that needs an ASSESSMENT of skills, knowledge, and includes the failures and reasons why they may have happened.

                So, if one is willing to take an honest look at where they come from, BEFORE they set sail toward harbors of success, they can often see the hidden reefs which they will crash upon and disappear.

                VERY important idea.

                GordonJ



                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Gordon I would have to agree with you on that one. Although language barriers can be a bit stifling I find those with that problem here have a decent head on their shoulders when it comes to having potential for success in entrepreneurship.

                And like you I find that most people here at WF that post do have that DNA it takes to be successful. But I think the DNA of working hard is what some may be missing. Or is that actually DNA ? May just be upbringing , the environment around them etc..etc..

                Lots of interesting things to ponder.
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            • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


              Sure, not everyone is cut out for Entrepreneurship, but giving the benefit of the doubt to most WARRIORS, who come here to find help, seek mentorship, develop associations and the skills needed to become whatever their version of success means...

              I can only go by the people that comment here. I don't know the number of active members.

              But I know maybe 5 world class salespeople. Three of them are here.
              And as far as how successful they are..

              Language gives me a lot of clues. People who make money in marketing or selling talk a certain way. And the wannabes talk a certain way.

              And people who lie about their success give themselves away. Every successful person here knows what I mean by that. When you don't know how to do something, it stands out to the people who do.

              By "Successful" I mean they make a comfortable living in some sort of marketing or selling.

              Anyway, at least on the offline forum, the real deals are more the rule than the exception, I think.

              Do I get a star?
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                I guess DNO doesn't work anymore, need more characters.

                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I can only go by the people that comment here. I don't know the number of active members.

                But I know maybe 5 world class salespeople. Three of them are here.
                And as far as how successful they are..

                Language gives me a lot of clues. People who make money in marketing or selling talk a certain way. And the wannabes talk a certain way.

                And people who lie about their success give themselves away. Every successful person here knows what I mean by that. When you don't know how to do something, it stands out to the people who do.

                By "Successful" I mean they make a comfortable living in some sort of marketing or selling.

                Anyway, at least on the offline forum, the real deals are more the rule than the exception, I think.

                Do I get a star?
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Hey Gordon,
    One of many that come to mind is William J Oneil's "How to Make Money with Stocks". I've read this book probably 5 or 6 times. Just a great way to learn about the fundamentals of a stock and what to look for in the best stocks to own as well as solid look in the stock market and how it works as well as some advanced teachings in this book.

    I think anyone who cares about money and keeping it should give this book a thorough reading!
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  • As we take in the sublime Joocy of Gordon's post, I would wanna conjoinify a coupla stuffs ...

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Sure, money isn't EVERYTHING. It doesn't beat faith, family, friends or health.

    GordonJ
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    So, if one is willing to take an honest look at where they come from, BEFORE they set sail toward harbors of success, they can often see the hidden reefs which they will crash upon and disappear.

    VERY important idea.

    GordonJ
    Ain't there DEPTHS in faith, fam, friends & health plenty people can't plunder too easy?

    Plenty despairin', lonely, loveless & sick people pump more money than I gaht into schemes fulla no actschwl valyoo.

    But all these sorry souls are sailin' I guess.

    Crossin' oceans to escape their torment an' meet up with sum fyooture self gonna save 'em.

    So I would wanna postulate a yearnin' ocean of impossibility as the worst kinda interface between circumstance an' dream.

    Might there be an easiah connect between stuff you gaht, shit in abundance kinda bores you or you figure has no valyoo ... an' dearth of same closah to home than paddlin' through the Pacific?

    Meantime, I coulda done with less math in school an' more hoola hoopin'.

    Them teachahs presoom kids pick up all that exotic stuff instantly, but I nevah figured it out till I was 22 an' developed pseudo hips.

    Mebbe there is a market sumplace for hoops slung offa wire trailed from an exotic wig.

    "Huh! Nowan will notice this hoop is suspended from muh head as I wiggle exotically an' mesmerise all with muh hoola antics -- less'n they remembah I ain't no blonde an' only ended up this way bcs the damn wig was on speshl offah ..."
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew North
    Thinking more on the subject of wealth in general. Most people in the world are considered poor. Poor people can be blessed with all the right skills, personal qualities, and experiences to be financially stable, yet don't have control over the context or the composite of causes of what keeps them in poverty. Some of the conditions that influence poverty include: timing, intention, probability, potential, likelihood, momentum, favoritism, selection, randomness, the weather, economic conditions, morale, political climate, availability, supply, need, affordability, social morality, etc. All these things and more determines the context that allows poverty or wealth to thrive.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Matthew North View Post

      Thinking more on the subject of wealth in general. Most people in the world are considered poor. Poor people can be blessed with all the right skills, personal qualities, and experiences to be financially stable, yet don't have control over the context or the composite of causes of what keeps them in poverty. .
      What is considered poverty in the USA is upper middle class/affluent in moch of the world

      People who never figure out how to store econic value and grow it are doomed to live off what they can earn day to day

      Broke is a much different condition than poor or poverty .
      If you get in domes car and have to move a pile of 20$ scratch tickets and the a hungover from spending a hundred dollars at the bar the night before . That is being broke not poor or poverty.

      You can fix being broke far far easier than you can fix being poor. Poverty is do to the environment you are in . And as long as you stay in the environment and it doesn't improve.
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  • Profile picture of the author brothinvesting
    I grew up on welfare raised by a single mom, I've been homeless twice , you are very right that getting rich from nothing is definitely a slow burn.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Banned
    Another magnetic GordonJ contribution.

    What really steams my buns is people like Suze Orman who travel the world telling people to pinch and scrape but she never suggests to them that they create their own brands, DVDs, Tutorials as she does and become a Millionaire now.

    Same for YouTube. You can get a quick estimate of how much a Channel is generating if they are monetized. And when I see someone earning a decent living on YouTube suggesting to scrape and sacrifice and never mention to create a popular YT channel it makes me cringe

    I have said this before that if I was on a webinar and it got me so excited I had credit card out ready to pull the trigger on a "must have" life changing $2000 infoproduct then that is the time I need to add Webinar Marketing to my arsenal.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      I predate cassettes. YIKES. Thanks to a local businessman, I had a great second hand collection of talking vinyl. Including THE STRANGEST SECRET, a million dollar album, and maybe the only gold one produced.

      These often came with small printed booklets to complete the "course"...then mid 60's, BAM, came the cassette, and not long after that guys like Paul J. Meyer of Success Motivation Institute and Earl Nightingale and Lloyd Conant started producing cassette courses, the forerunner to the Greg Renker-Bill Guthy which took the industry to a whole "nuther level.

      Today, one can get MP3 and other audio versions of these things.

      The six words that Earl Nightingale (by the way, a survivor of the Pearl Harbor attack being a marine on the U.S.S. ARIZONA) credited Napoleon Hill with changing his life are:

      "We become what we think about."


      My version of this is: Where the head goes, the body follows.

      The IM success usually has this FOCUS on doing, adjusting and continuing.

      There is an idea, which says MONEY IS ENERGY, and with Crypto of today, a fact.

      But it is also a belief, that not only money is Stored Value and a Medium of Exchange (although not the only one) it is also an energy, both potential when stored, and KINETIC when in motion. Circulation is the key to making more money, and not scrimping and saving.

      Thanks for pointing out some of the hypocrisy we see from those who would have us scrape by while flying first class to their next seminar.

      Don't scrimp and save, make more money. MAKE MORE.

      Circulate more, be in MOTION. And adjust the motion in the direction of a goal.

      GordonJ

      P.S. There was/is a template from the 60's, much like a funnel of today, any Warrior can use.

      TALK. Cheapest, easiest, fastest way to give information, a consumable, renewable form of energy.

      WRITE. In some way, shape or form, even talk can be put into print easily these days.

      PROMOTE. Place your offers of the above at an intersection where the target market goes.

      It has worked for many decades now.






      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      Another magnetic GordonJ contribution.

      What really steams my buns is people like Suze Orman who travel the world telling people to pinch and scrape but she never suggests to them that they create their own brands, DVDs, Tutorials as she does and become a Millionaire now.

      Same for YouTube. You can get a quick estimate of how much a Channel is generating if they are monetized. And when I see someone earning a decent living on YouTube suggesting to scrape and sacrifice and never mention to create a popular YT channel it makes me cringe

      I have said this before that if I was on a webinar and it got me so excited I had credit card out ready to pull the trigger on a "must have" life changing $2000 infoproduct then that is the time I need to add Webinar Marketing to my arsenal.
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    • Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      Another magnetic GordonJ contribution.

      What really steams my buns is people like Suze Orman who travel the world telling people to pinch and scrape but she never suggests to them that they create their own brands, DVDs, Tutorials as she does and become a Millionaire now.
      I suppose this will sound like I'm coming to her defense....

      Her audience isn't made up of entrepreneurial people. They are consumers that have jobs. Any mention of making money outside of Index funds or buying a home would scare her audience.

      These people would never be receptive to a "Make money this way" message. It has to be about safely investing and saving money. That is her brand. That is her audience.

      My guess (I don't follow her at all) is that she doesn't speak to groups of business owners. That would be completely off brand for her.



      Originally Posted by brothinvesting View Post

      I grew up on welfare raised by a single mom, I've been homeless twice , you are very right that getting rich from nothing is definitely a slow burn.
      It's very slow at the beginning.

      For the vast majority of us, it takes money to make money. But it takes so very little money.

      Having zero money severely limits your options, but having very little money is enough, if you are willing to take the time and effort.

      The fact that you grew up on Welfare with a single Mom only matters in that your beliefs about money, and how to make it, may be skewed.

      We all have stories like yours.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I

        It's very slow at the beginning.

        For the vast majority of us, it takes money to make money. But it takes so very little money.

        Having zero money severely limits your options, but having very little money is enough, if you are willing to take the time and effort.

        The fact that you grew up on Welfare with a single Mom only matters in that your beliefs about money, and how to make it, may be skewed.

        We all have stories like yours.
        If you are trying to get out of poverty. You have to hide what you are doing from most of the other people around you . And not by nice things until you have move away from those who would steal your nice things while at work.

        Part of the the poverty trap involves replacing stuff other people steal

        I was totally unaware of that before I went on me travels the last 6 years
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        • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          If you are trying to get out of poverty. You have to hide what you are doing from most of the other people around you . And not by nice things until you have move away from those who would steal your nice things while at work.

          Part of the the poverty trap involves replacing stuff other people steal

          I was totally unaware of that before I went on me travels the last 6 years
          Wow. I really never had that problem. My problem was learning to not explain what I was doing.

          Friends and family thought I was doing something wrong

          It's very hard to explain selling or marketing to an uninitiated person. It all sounds like a scam. I lost several friends, because I no longer talked like they did, or had the same outlook.

          I remember as a young man (maybe 20 years old) driving through a very high end neighborhood with a carload of my friends.

          They said things like "I bet tax write offs paid for this", "i wonder who they screwed over for afford this"....that sort of thing.

          I said "I wonder what they know that we don't".

          They all looked at me like I was a Martian. That was one of the rare moments when my thinking started to shift.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Wow. I really never had that problem. My problem was learning to not explain what I was doing.

            Friends and family thought I was doing something wrong

            They all looked at me like I was a Martian. That was one of the rare moments when my thinking started to shift.
            My thinking majorly started to shift when I work on the strip in Las Vegas. I saw people who could make a lot of money a day and not keep a roof over their head . While other people who had been doing it for a decade had bought houses after the Great Recession. . And owned costume he rented out to people to work with him. But he wasn't from the USA

            But being out on the strip all hours of the day and into the night was a rough environment and you make 100 dollars in 20 minutes an 20 dollars in the next 5 hours

            But I realize the amount of anger I was filled with. And I saw enough people destroying their lives to bury emotional pain that is was the main thing I had to fix when I left Vegas. And I think I a only fully settled down in the Las few months
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          If you are trying to get out of poverty. You have to hide what you are doing from most of the other people around you . And not by nice things until you have move away from those who would steal your nice things while at work.

          Part of the the poverty trap involves replacing stuff other people steal

          I was totally unaware of that before I went on me travels the last 6 years
          You are only as successful as the people that are around you. Success has nothing to do with "Nice Things"... a by product of sorts.. but on the rise and WANTING nice things, but still living in and amongst poverty - you will remain there. Be it being stolen, or just throwing money to the wind, a New TV with every stim check or bottles of champagne, or new clothes do NOT make you richer, in my book dont even make you look rich.

          In the current state of the world, you can very quickly determine some ones ability for success by asking a simple question "What did you do with your stimulus checks?"

          How would I answer that question? I bought my wife and I a new pair of glasses, and my son and I a pair of electric scooters. Every other penny went into the stock market, and it is currently sitting at about 400% growth. I would suggest that is what success might look like.

          And to answer the question... what book or course or information? I would say 99.9% of the time... do the exact opposite of what you have been doing, and figure out what that is. How did you spend your stimulus checks? is a great place to start. HOW did the answer to that question create wealth in your life?
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            You are only as successful as the people that are around you. Success has nothing to do with "Nice Things"... a by product of sorts.. but on the rise and WANTING nice things, but still living in and amongst poverty - you will remain there. Be it being stolen, or just throwing money to the wind, a New TV with every stim check or bottles of champagne, or new clothes do NOT make you richer, in my book dont even make you look rich.
            I understand what you are saying . I am just pointing out why so many people born into poverty in the USA stay in poverty. Or what is considered poverty in the United States.

            Where people who immigrate to the USA from much worse poverty . Tend to not stay in poverty generation after generation

            I have to be careful because I basically want to say people conditioned to living in poverty and that social environment in the USA . Generally can't adapt to living outside that environment a small number can .
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            • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              I understand what you are saying . I am just pointing out why so many people born into poverty in the USA stay in poverty. Or what is considered poverty in the United States.

              Where people who immigrate to the USA from much worse poverty . Tend to not stay in poverty generation after generation
              My guess is that people that immigrate to the US, tend to be the type that are used to working long hours, and what the US offers appeals to them. I don't mean assistance, I mean an opportunity to better their lives through their own efforts.

              They are ambitious and industrious from the start.
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                My guess is that people that immigrate to the US, tend to be the type that are used to working long hours, and what the US offers appeals to them. I don't mean assistance, I mean an opportunity to better their lives through their own efforts.

                They are ambitious and industrious from the start.
                I am trying to study people from all parts of India . As that group does well wherever they migrate to in mass and not just the USA.

                There is the hard work , frugal nature,ability to save lots of money and more likely to get educated and go to high paying fields. And I don't think people from India have to deal with a mafia or other India based organized crime
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          • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            "What did you do with your stimulus checks?"
            What's weird is that I know what some people did with their check, they came in my store and bought a high end vacuum cleaner.

            We used to be located right next to an H&R Block office. People would go in there, come out with their refund check, and walk ten feet to our store, and spend it all.

            Many people cannot wait to spend every dollar they get. Stand in any gas station line, and see the people who spend their money on cigarettes, beer, and lottery tickets.

            What did I do with our stimulus checks? I just added them to our retirement fund. But that's an older guy with the wisdom of age. A 25 year old Claude would have just spent it on nothing.
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              What's weird is that I know what some people did with their check, they came in my store and bough a high end vacuum cleaner.

              We used to be located right next to an H&R Block office. People would go in their, come out with their refund check, and walk ten feet to our store, and spend it all.
              .
              For the years I was working I claimed 0 on my taxes and ended up owning state taxes and getting a few hundred back from and I did my own taxes up until you basically had to exile

              I found it really odd people thought I should get more taken out to get a bigger refund .

              I just don't understand so called normal people.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              What did I do with our stimulus checks? I just added them to our retirement fund and put a portion in entertainment with throwing Benjamins at Riffle's personal Lap Dancing. But that's an older guy with the wisdom of age. A 25 year old Claude would have just spent it on nothing.
              Fixed that for you big guy

              Seriously though, we did the same thing. But we took out a small portion to visit the beach at Corpus Christie and the rest in retirement savings
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              What's weird is that I know what some people did with their check, they came in my store and bought a high end vacuum cleaner.
              I dont think it is weird... its right up there with taking candy from a baby... and i am saying this with a smile on my face. and it only gets better! There are 36 MILLION families getting at a minimum of $250 per child every month until Dec. and THEN they will get a MINIMUM of $1500 when they do their taxes.

              What is a marketer to do?

              If you are asking me... I would be manipulating my marketing message to incorporate how the spend for your product or service would benefit the children.

              Do your kids have asthma or sinus infections? clean your home with a state of the art hepa filter vacuum cleaner. A clean home environment is the foundation to a healthy life for your kids.

              Is your child embarrassed by your appearance? Try XYZ weight loss today - do it for your child!

              Go GREEN for Xmas with a new electric scooter for your child or children.

              I think some of us at least understand human nature... all these families are getting all this cash because they have kids... They have every intention on spending the money on the kids... but we all know that is not how it works... so to manipulate the message that a purchase for the parent that benefits the child, becomes a win ( for the marketer at least )
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          • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            "What did you do with your stimulus checks?"
            I sent it to a good friend.
            A paraplegic street musician.
            He modified his wheelchair.
            He integrated a speaker setup connected to a mobile phone and a karaoke app.
            Along with holders for shakers and tambourines.
            And he worked alongside his dog, trained to wear a neck-strapped donation bag and walk over to the audience ...

            But he completely lost his sole livelihood.
            Because of this global crisis.
            And our local quarantine policies ...

            That stimulus check was for 6K PHP (125 USD).
            And it was the best $125 that I gave away ...

            Because I learned that the happiest people on the planet live their lives, in their own terms.
            He passed, last year, from complications of bone and muscle bedsore infections.

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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

              I sent it to a good friend.


              That stimulus check was for 6K PHP (125 USD).
              And it was the best $125 that I gave away ..

              I sent much of mine over to help a friend in the Philippines. I was basically paying her to have someone to talk to most of the day through the lockdowns.

              But she was going from one crisis to another. It got tiresome. I put it down as an educational expense. Women tend to be my most expensive bad habit. As in trying to help women in distress. Who will never get out of distress.
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              • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post


                But she was going from one crisis to another. It got tiresome. I put it down as an educational expense. Women tend to be my most expensive bad habit. As in trying to help women in distress. Who will never get out of distress.
                Friends who want you to give them money are really seldom friends.

                Sure, after you know them for years, and they need $100 for something....but if they are long distance, and you send them money, you aren't their friend, you're their customer.

                And if they met you online, and you send them money....you are their patsy.
                a Forum member here years ago asked us for advice because his "relationship" kept asking him for large sums of money....which he had been sending.

                We yelled at him for days , to convince him that he was just a victim of a scam.

                Guys in strip bars do the same thing. They think they are in a relationship...that costs hundreds of dollars a week.

                Anyway, no idea if this applies to you, but I thought I would brighten your day.
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                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Friends who want you to give them money are really seldom friends.

                  Sure, after you know them for years, and they need $100 for something....but if they are long distance, and you send them money, you aren't their friend, you're their customer.

                  .
                  It was mostly for entertainment and education. But I could dream of going back to the Philippines and being with her.

                  I haven't wanted to be in a real relationship for many years that filled the role. And cost far less money over the years than other options.

                  Anyway I'm probably keeping my travels in North America and the Caribbean for the distant future . So when I get on the move again when Covid settles down. I'll head where I can learn Spanish.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

              I sent it to a good friend.
              A paraplegic street musician.
              He modified his wheelchair.
              He integrated a speaker setup connected to a mobile phone and a karaoke app.
              Along with holders for shakers and tambourines.
              And he worked alongside his dog, trained to wear a neck-strapped donation bag and walk over to the audience...

              Because I learned that the happiest people on the planet live their lives, in their own terms.
              There are few things that I personally spend money on - meaning personally for myself. Any medical expense is a given, be it a doctors visit or Glasses. I spend money on things that will enrich my life - not to be confused with things that are ment to waste time. IE electric scooters for me and the son to tool around town on. ( father son time ) and I will give my LAST dollar to anyone that the money will enrich their experience ( such as you had done )

              I look at EVERYTHING in terms of investment or wants. "Needs" are investments... food health, a roof over your head etc. I dont buy TV's just to sit relax and watch... i could be spending my time doing far more productive things. The only TV's I own within my own home are in front of computers, or an Xbox. I dont have "Cable" or satellite tv in the house.

              Right down to something as basic in average American life, a TV is seen as a tool to make money. My son plays games / streams and earns money by doing so... new games are no longer a "WANT" but an investment. How fast can he start streaming a new game and pay the expense of the game off?

              Its ( i think ) a very minor brain shift... from "Wanting" something, to figuring out how that something can pay for itself - making it an "Investment".

              This is not something I have ever read or heard... but it stands at the very center of "Business"

              Can you succeed as a entrepreneur? I think you need look no further than say high school. Did you have a hustle back then? did you start even younger than that? This would be a glimps into the fact that "selling" is in your blood.
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                {edited for brevity}

                Its ( i think ) a very minor brain shift... from "Wanting" something, to figuring out how that something can pay for itself - making it an "Investment".

                This is not something I have ever read or heard... but it stands at the very center of "Business"
                Harvey Brody sold many different courses back in the 70's/80s, two of which had the "cow's milk" idea were THE CONCEPT course, and his TOLL POSITION course. It is a way of thinking, just as you describe, finding a way to turn a want into an investment, and having it pay for itself.

                One way for business sellers is to finance the transaction, acting as the bank/loan agent, and it is just one of many examples. I like your idea of what an investment is, but for many it might be hard to wrap their head around.

                GordonJ
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              • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


                Its ( i think ) a very minor brain shift... from "Wanting" something, to figuring out how that something can pay for itself - making it an "Investment".
                Wow. In this thread and others, you're really hitting it out of the ball park recently.

                What you just said here may be a minor brain shift, but it's life changing if internalized.

                Thank you.
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Wow. In this thread and others, you're really hitting it out of the ball park recently.
                  Uh Claude... uh no, thank YOU!

                  Hopefully to keep on the roll... "The Shift" ( I believe ) is an easy one. Its simply understanding the dynamics at play. So there are 2 thought process' at play here, there is the investing mind set, and then there is the Paycheck mindset.

                  Lets start with the basics of the Paycheck mindset. you work 40 hours a week ( I am assuming the average for any working person ) and at the end of the week or every other week you get a check. With that check you pay rent / mortgage, electric, cable, entertainment, food, etc etc THIS is a never ending cycle...we have heard the phrase before... I have lived it, and I will assume MOST do... you "live paycheck to paycheck" Somehow, you have to break the cycle.

                  So the alternative is then the Investment mindset. Making your money WORK for you. It literally takes $40 to break the cycle. Probably could be done for less if needed. Start with reading this: ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...days-ebay.html ) In the time of 1 month, my son and I turned $40.00 into $7962.00 ( Gross ) or $3998.00 ( Net Profit )

                  In that thread I do a 30 day summary: ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...l#post11494254 ) and the number that REALLY needs to be looked at is "Cost of Goods" starting with $40.00 in hand, my son and I spent $2162.00.

                  - I F - we only kept investing the $40 over and over we would have not made $3998.00 in the first month. So if we had had the "Paycheck Mindset" we would have reinvested the $40 and SPENT the remaining profit. THIS is placing you right back into the Paycheck Mindset cycle. Your not getting "Ahead" you are spinning your wheels and staying in place.

                  So following the Profit equation I used in that very thread, I wanted each purchase to produce 3x, $40,00 turned into $120.00 WE DID NOT remove $80.00 and reinvest $40.00, we reinvested the ENTIRE $120.00 So we bought $120.00 worth of product, We bout $360 worth of product, we bought $1080.00 worth of product... and in reality the MAX out number for that project was a bit less, we were only working 2 HOURS DAY.

                  There comes a point were the "Operating Capital" ( cash in hand to buy stuff to sell ) reaches a level of sustainability in terms of the income it produces. In this case $1000.00 would provide a $4000.00 a month income. THIS is the shift. Understanding it TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY and having the ability to break the Paycheck Mindset and re-invest vs spend.

                  So that was 2 hours a day 7 days a week. what happens if that becomes 8 hours a day? My wife operates ( full time) our online platform sales division ( eBay, Etsy, Amazon, Facebook, etc ). Her "Operating Capital" is $50K, and she NET's ( profits ) 7 Digits - in excess of $1,000,000.00 in sales a year. You could NEVER reach that number trying to turn $40.00 over and over.

                  So by simply starting with $40 and reinvesting, reinvesting, and reinvesting, you could have $4000 sitting in a bank account. For the sake of just because... when we started that $40.00 challenge we let the money accumulate for an entire year in a account. It ended up being 6 digits.

                  You can literally go from barely being able to pay rent to serious house down payment money ( unless you live in Ca or something ) in 1 years time, starting with $40 - with ONE minor mind shift... just because you made the money does not mean you need to spend the money - and if you have to spend the money right off the get.. then you need to get a job, and do this on the side.

                  The term "Intellectual Property" ( IP ) got thrown around on this thread ( Thanks GordonJ ) so what is IP? IP as it translates the way it was used is taking your time, and creating a small report, that in turn you could sell. Your "Time" or investment there of, translates to a product IE a report you can sell. No different than many, as they were kids, had an asset IE a lawnmower and mowed yards to earn money.

                  YOU could invest in a lawnmower and pay off the expense by mowing some of your neighbors yards. you could INVEST in a snow shovel and shovel your neighbors driveways. You could invest in a Cricut and make crafty cards that the hair salon you visit would let you display and sell. Or you could make stickers for peoples cars and sell them on Facebook / Instagram marketplace.

                  The secret is the mind shift. If I buy X, how can I sell something, and reinvest over and over to KEEP SELLING. Your Cricut stickers you start selling locally, and as you sell more you then invest in boosted listings and offer shipping and sell nationally. The more you invest ( once you have a working model ) the more you sell, and the more you make.

                  It is literally that simple - its just a matter of breaking the Paycheck Mindset IE make it spend it. The minute you make it and reinvest it, you start multiplying your income and break the cycle of "Paycheck to paycheck."

                  Hope that Helps!
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                • Profile picture of the author DABK
                  I agree with all you said, Savidge, except the easy part.


                  I mean, it's easy to understand, as concept. It's hard to internalized. Why do I say it's hard to internalize? Because I've known many who understood, intellectually, the concepts quite well, but could not make their lives reflect that intellectual understanding.


                  I think one of the reasons is that nobody's thought them how it feels to be in the investor's life... in the beginning, in the middle, in the end.


                  They have examples of the other all around them, so they know.


                  They do not have examples of the other, or not enough.


                  People want certainty. Without examples of the investor mind around, they don't get it... Well, some go online or the movies or books, and find them there. Many do not. It goes against the mindset of most people to do those extra steps.


                  They seem easy, but, when faced with so many distractions, it's not.


                  Part of what people don't get (or are too scared of) is the wait between when you start putting in the effort and when you see the positive results.


                  Savidge, you thread on ebay, should help a lot... I feel not enough people see it or pay attention... read it all.


                  Plus, paychecks for employees, they come early and at regular times. You know when you're going to have it and how much it is for.


                  Someone close to me did not want me self-employed because of the $0 to $3,000/ month times. I could not get her to understand *emotionally* that $0 +$2140 + 274 +27,490 +341 + 18941 + 13400 +800 +13284+3100 after expenses (in other word 79,700) is safer than $5000/month, month in and out. Not even after explaining that all that's above 60,000 goes back in and makes the next year almost twice as good. Because I could not guarantee no months of less than $5k. I could only guarantee an average of 5000 or more.


                  The other part of internalizing is breaking things into actionable steps.


                  And learning not to chase after the shinny objects. In RE, Savidge, there are lots of people who buy courses on investing but never locate a good house/ building... Often, because they do not have the money to do it themselves and they are too afraid to get a house under contract and sell the contract for a couple of thousands more.


                  And the fear comes from the fact that they have not understood that they need to make friends with a bunch of people who have the means to close on the contract but not the time or inclination to look for suitable properties... or so busy with doing it that they do not have the time to do it.


                  Or, at least, find people who'd give them $500 for introducing them to the owner of a house suitable for their investment needs.


                  It takes effort to overcome fear. And vision. I mean, seeing yourself in your future shoes. That is hard for most people.


                  And, then, it takes putting in effort consistently. And that's hard for many people... unless there's a boss who monitors them.


                  Thanks for your posts. Because I'm just going to direct a few people to them (as opposed to me spending the time and covering the info).



                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Wow. In this thread and others, you're really hitting it out of the ball park recently.

                  What you just said here may be a minor brain shift, but it's life changing if internalized.

                  Thank you.
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Uh Claude... uh no, thank YOU!

                  Hopefully to keep on the roll... "The Shift" ( I believe ) is an easy one. Its simply understanding the dynamics at play. So there are 2 thought process' at play here, there is the investing mind set, and then there is the Paycheck mindset.

                  Lets start with the basics of the Paycheck mindset. you work 40 hours a week ( I am assuming the average for any working person ) and at the end of the week or every other week you get a check. With that check you pay rent / mortgage, electric, cable, entertainment, food, etc etc THIS is a never ending cycle...we have heard the phrase before... I have lived it, and I will assume MOST do... you "live paycheck to paycheck" Somehow, you have to break the cycle.

                  So the alternative is then the Investment mindset. Making your money WORK for you. It literally takes $40 to break the cycle. Probably could be done for less if needed. Start with reading this: ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...days-ebay.html ) In the time of 1 month, my son and I turned $40.00 into $7962.00 ( Gross ) or $3998.00 ( Net Profit )

                  In that thread I do a 30 day summary: ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...l#post11494254 ) and the number that REALLY needs to be looked at is "Cost of Goods" starting with $40.00 in hand, my son and I spent $2162.00.

                  - I F - we only kept investing the $40 over and over we would have not made $3998.00 in the first month. So if we had had the "Paycheck Mindset" we would have reinvested the $40 and SPENT the remaining profit. THIS is placing you right back into the Paycheck Mindset cycle. Your not getting "Ahead" you are spinning your wheels and staying in place.

                  So following the Profit equation I used in that very thread, I wanted each purchase to produce 3x, $40,00 turned into $120.00 WE DID NOT remove $80.00 and reinvest $40.00, we reinvested the ENTIRE $120.00 So we bought $120.00 worth of product, We bout $360 worth of product, we bought $1080.00 worth of product... and in reality the MAX out number for that project was a bit less, we were only working 2 HOURS DAY.

                  There comes a point were the "Operating Capital" ( cash in hand to buy stuff to sell ) reaches a level of sustainability in terms of the income it produces. In this case $1000.00 would provide a $4000.00 a month income. THIS is the shift. Understanding it TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY and having the ability to break the Paycheck Mindset and re-invest vs spend.

                  So that was 2 hours a day 7 days a week. what happens if that becomes 8 hours a day? My wife operates ( full time) our online platform sales division ( eBay, Etsy, Amazon, Facebook, etc ). Her "Operating Capital" is $50K, and she NET's ( profits ) 7 Digits - in excess of $1,000,000.00 in sales a year. You could NEVER reach that number trying to turn $40.00 over and over.

                  So by simply starting with $40 and reinvesting, reinvesting, and reinvesting, you could have $4000 sitting in a bank account. For the sake of just because... when we started that $40.00 challenge we let the money accumulate for an entire year in a account. It ended up being 6 digits.

                  You can literally go from barely being able to pay rent to serious house down payment money ( unless you live in Ca or something ) in 1 years time, starting with $40 - with ONE minor mind shift... just because you made the money does not mean you need to spend the money - and if you have to spend the money right off the get.. then you need to get a job, and do this on the side.

                  The term "Intellectual Property" ( IP ) got thrown around on this thread ( Thanks GordonJ ) so what is IP? IP as it translates the way it was used is taking your time, and creating a small report, that in turn you could sell. Your "Time" or investment there of, translates to a product IE a report you can sell. No different than many, as they were kids, had an asset IE a lawnmower and mowed yards to earn money.

                  YOU could invest in a lawnmower and pay off the expense by mowing some of your neighbors yards. you could INVEST in a snow shovel and shovel your neighbors driveways. You could invest in a Cricut and make crafty cards that the hair salon you visit would let you display and sell. Or you could make stickers for peoples cars and sell them on Facebook / Instagram marketplace.

                  The secret is the mind shift. If I buy X, how can I sell something, and reinvest over and over to KEEP SELLING. Your Cricut stickers you start selling locally, and as you sell more you then invest in boosted listings and offer shipping and sell nationally. The more you invest ( once you have a working model ) the more you sell, and the more you make.

                  It is literally that simple - its just a matter of breaking the Paycheck Mindset IE make it spend it. The minute you make it and reinvest it, you start multiplying your income and break the cycle of "Paycheck to paycheck."

                  Hope that Helps!
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                  • Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Someone close to me did not want me self-employed because of the $0 to $3,000/ month times. I could not get her to understand *emotionally* that $0 +$2140 + 274 +27,490 +341 + 18941 + 13400 +800 +13284+3100 after expenses (in other word 79,700) is safer than $5000/month, month in and out. Not even after explaining that all that's above 60,000 goes back in and makes the next year almost twice as good. Because I could not guarantee no months of less than $5k. I could only guarantee an average of 5000 or more.
                    I was explaining to a highly intelligent friend decades ago how I made money in selling (I bought wholesale, and made a profit when selling)


                    She asked me if I wouldn't rather have a salary (She was a college professor).

                    The conversation went like this....


                    Me; "Let's assume someone has a salaried job. Here's what a salary is: an agreement between you & your employer that they will pay you a certain sum per hour, week, or month. Let's say it's $10 an hour. Your work will make your employer much more than $10 an hour, or you'll lose your job. So the agreement is; Your employer will pay you the FIRST $10 an hour that you earn for him. and he keeps the rest."

                    Friend- What do you mean 'The rest'?"

                    Me- "If you get paid $10 an hour, but you generate less than $10 an hour in profits to your employer, how long do you keep your job?"

                    Friend- "Not long, I guess"

                    Me- "Right, in fact most employers make a multiple of your salary off your results. They have to, if they want the business to grow"

                    Friend "That almost seems unfair"

                    Me-" Actually, it's completely fair. If you agree to work for a specific amount & they give it to you, how can it be 'unfair'?"

                    Friend- "So what's so great about commission?"

                    Me- " This, You know the employer that pays you $10 an hour? He's on commission. Every CEO of a company, every self-employed person, every farmer, every landlord, almost every wealthy person in the world works on the profits of their work, we call it a commission"

                    Friend-"You make commission sound better"

                    Me-"It is better. You ever hear of someone getting promoted to 'Partner' in a business?"

                    Friend-"Sure"

                    Me-" The person was making a salary. When they become a partner, they now get a share of the company's profits; A 'Commission'. Commission is a Promotion. Commission is more".

                    Anyway, the discussion reminded me of that.

                    Added later;

                    This was a conversation I had maybe 35 years ago. It's not anything I could ever say to any relative, any of my wife's relatives, any employee, any current friend who doesn't own a business. Or anyone I met, not in business for themselves. I know this, a discussion like this would sound evil to about 40% of the country.

                    I only had this talk with my close friend, decades ago, because she asked.
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    I agree with all you said, Savidge, except the easy part.


                    I mean, it's easy to understand, as concept. It's hard to internalized. Why do I say it's hard to internalize? Because I've known many who understood, intellectually, the concepts quite well, but could not make their lives reflect that intellectual understanding.
                    I understand what you are saying... And I can tell you exactly WHY there is a disconnect. The disconnect is in that step of getting paid for what you have sold... that becomes a "Paycheck" and they spend it... you make enough money in a year and it comes to tax time and they haven't put 40% away and they are in big trouble. OR the get paid and spend the money and dont re-invest. OR They buy $5.00 worth of pencil to sell out on the street corner and hold $5.00 for tomorrow and spend the rest and dont understand that once they sell the $5.00 worth their next buy should be for $10.00 and then $20.00 and then $50.00

                    What is truly understood by the masses is they make money and they spend it. Or as I stated above you can sell stuff on eBay starting with $40 and bank roll it ALL for 1 year and have $100,000 sitting in a bank account. THIS is the mind shift


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    I think one of the reasons is that nobody's thought them how it feels to be in the investor's life... in the beginning, in the middle, in the end.


                    They have examples of the other all around them, so they know.


                    They do not have examples of the other, or not enough.


                    People want certainty. Without examples of the investor mind around, they don't get it... Well, some go online or the movies or books, and find them there. Many do not. It goes against the mindset of most people to do those extra steps.
                    How it feels? and I would say this is another disconnect... owning a business and being at any level of success.... "Feeling" really isnt an option. In my eBay thread I speak about taking "Thinking" out of the equation... numbers numbers numbers If I am consistently buying and selling $5.00 worth of pencils every day... wouldnt you try to sell $10.00 in one day? and MOST people would answer "No" to this question.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    They seem easy, but, when faced with so many distractions, it's not.
                    My eBay thread... about as easy as it gets... In my world, there are no "distractions" there are "priorities" When I started that eBay thread...there were PLENTY of "distractions". The PRIORITY was #1 meeting the agreement with my son that 2 hours a day we were going to do this, and #2 following through with the thread. Its about Midnight right now and I have about another 2 hours of "Work" in front of me. But I am prioritizing this conversation. I havent responded in the last few days cuz things are crazy hectic, and this was not high on the priority list.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Part of what people don't get (or are too scared of) is the wait between when you start putting in the effort and when you see the positive results.
                    We live in the "Now" society. "all things come to those who wait" - Violet Fane
                    AKA Lady Mary Montgomerie Currie

                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Savidge, you thread on ebay, should help a lot... I feel not enough people see it or pay attention... read it all.
                    I will admit, that reading that and trying to do it... sounds like to much work... people have this vision of making money and sitting on a beach somewhere, and sitting at home and buying and shipping stuff does not meet that criteria.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Plus, paychecks for employees, they come early and at regular times. You know when you're going to have it and how much it is for.
                    I can say this for eBay.. the more you list, the more you sell... We have our payments set for once a week. And with the exception of the minor slow down during the summer and the HUGE boom sept through Dec its pretty scarry how consistent the numbers are.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Someone close to me did not want me self-employed because of the $0 to $3,000/ month times. I could not get her to understand *emotionally* that $0 +$2140 + 274 +27,490 +341 + 18941 + 13400 +800 +13284+3100 after expenses (in other word 79,700) is safer than $5000/month, month in and out. Not even after explaining that all that's above 60,000 goes back in and makes the next year almost twice as good. Because I could not guarantee no months of less than $5k. I could only guarantee an average of 5000 or more.
                    On a fairly regular basis I hear from my mother in law and my own mother, I should get a job. My Wifes aspect of the business makes more in 1 year than my Mother in Law made in her lifetime - I cant help but laugh ( out loud I might add )


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    The other part of internalizing is breaking things into actionable steps.


                    And learning not to chase after the shinny objects. In RE, Savidge, there are lots of people who buy courses on investing but never locate a good house/ building... Often, because they do not have the money to do it themselves and they are too afraid to get a house under contract and sell the contract for a couple of thousands more.


                    And the fear comes from the fact that they have not understood that they need to make friends with a bunch of people who have the means to close on the contract but not the time or inclination to look for suitable properties... or so busy with doing it that they do not have the time to do it.


                    Or, at least, find people who'd give them $500 for introducing them to the owner of a house suitable for their investment needs.
                    This was the part of this post i really wanted to comment on. "Those" programs and I would say damn near ALL OF THEM are tailored to attract "Paycheck" minded people. Buy a house with little or no money down right? Buy a house that is undervalued and collect the difference at closing right? what is this? a "Paycheck" THEN.. you rent the house and what do you get every month? a "Paycheck" right?

                    But here is what those programs DONT tell you. if you buy a property and dont have at least 20% equity in the property you have to pay this thing called PMI insurance. on a $100,000 house / property that equals give or take an additional $250 onto your payment.

                    So you buy this property and you now have 30 years of payments. If they would have not taken the paycheck at closing, they would then drop $250 off the mortgage payment and then rented the property with a 15 year mortgage and had an "Asset" in half the time. I could go on and on about this subject.

                    I only buy properties that need fixing up, and that I can have paid off ( initial buy price + fixing cost ) in less than 10 years. I then have an "Asset" in 1/3 the time and probably 40 to 50% less expensive than the course investor.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    It takes effort to overcome fear. And vision. I mean, seeing yourself in your future shoes. That is hard for most people.
                    and yet people go on blind dates looking for a life long relationship - sorry had to.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    And, then, it takes putting in effort consistently. And that's hard for many people... unless there's a boss who monitors them.
                    My "can" answer for this... it takes consistency and effort NOT do do something... probably MORE effort than it would take to actually just do whatever it is.


                    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                    Thanks for your posts. Because I'm just going to direct a few people to them (as opposed to me spending the time and covering the info).
                    You are so welcome.
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          • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


            In the current state of the world, you can very quickly determine some ones ability for success by asking a simple question "What did you do with your stimulus checks?"
            Forums make me snarky for some reason. But wealthy people didn't get stimulus checks. They phased out at $ 75K income for single and $ 150K for married.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

              Forums make me snarky for some reason. But wealthy people didn't get stimulus checks. They phased out at $ 75K income for single and $ 150K for married.
              And I haven't heard a single "Wealthy Person" complain about not getting one. A joking must be nice here and there maybe. and in that is the point. "Wealthy People" didnt need the money. And as I said, a good point of reference looking at ones ability to be "Successful" is how they spent their checks. I know VERY FEW that actually used the money to invest in themselves. I know a lot of people that used it to pay off credit, but would bet any amount of money they regressed to the same credit hole that they were in prior to the payments.

              And for the record... "Wealthy People" got the checks... Elon Musk as an example.. he earned $0.00 and has 5 kids... pretty sure he got a fat check. Im not anywhere near that level, but the salary I pay myself on a yearly basis qualified me for the checks as well. "Net Worth" and what you actually make are 2 different things.
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              • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                And I haven't heard a single "Wealthy Person" complain about not getting one. A joking must be nice here and there maybe. and in that is the point. "Wealthy People" didnt need the money. And as I said, a good point of reference looking at ones ability to be "Successful" is how they spent their checks. I know VERY FEW that actually used the money to invest in themselves. I know a lot of people that used it to pay off credit, but would bet any amount of money they regressed to the same credit hole that they were in prior to the payments.

                And for the record... "Wealthy People" got the checks... Elon Musk as an example.. he earned $0.00 and has 5 kids... pretty sure he got a fat check. Im not anywhere near that level, but the salary I pay myself on a yearly basis qualified me for the checks as well. "Net Worth" and what you actually make are 2 different things.
                There were 3 stimulus checks. I got the first one and the third one. my wife got all three. I missed one because of my reported income...I think.

                But when relatives asked us if we got our check, I said "You mean the check I did nothing to deserve, and didn't earn? Yes, we got those checks"

                Not that anyone here asked.
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              • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                And I haven't heard a single "Wealthy Person" complain about not getting one. A joking must be nice here and there maybe. and in that is the point. "Wealthy People" didnt need the money. And as I said, a good point of reference looking at ones ability to be "Successful" is how they spent their checks. I know VERY FEW that actually used the money to invest in themselves. I know a lot of people that used it to pay off credit, but would bet any amount of money they regressed to the same credit hole that they were in prior to the payments.

                And for the record... "Wealthy People" got the checks... Elon Musk as an example.. he earned $0.00 and has 5 kids... pretty sure he got a fat check. Im not anywhere near that level, but the salary I pay myself on a yearly basis qualified me for the checks as well. "Net Worth" and what you actually make are 2 different things.
                I'm done. You want me to believe you are on par with Elon Musk. Haha. I don't buy it. You are not some secret multi-millionaire in rural West Virginia. Stop playing.
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

                  I'm done. You want me to believe you are on par with Elon Musk. Haha. I don't buy it. You are not some secret multi-millionaire in rural West Virginia. Stop playing.
                  Uh bud.. I think I said " Im not anywhere near that level," so no, i dont think I am even close... BUT based on taxable income I make more than he does - and that is not saying much.

                  Read it for yourself ( https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...80%20in%202018. )
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                  • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    Uh bud.. I think I said " Im not anywhere near that level," so no, i dont think I am even close... BUT based on taxable income I make more than he does - and that is not saying much.

                    Read it for yourself ( https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...80%20in%202018. )
                    And before that he was taxed on several hundred million dollars worth of stock sales. There's a bigger picture than one single year. Lots of millionaires that make their wealth via stocks will have a year that they technically don't have an income. But it's sandwiched in between years where they had millions of dollars of taxable income.

                    My sister is an accountant for multi-millionaires and blah blah blah. She can tell you. One single year makes for good clickbait articles.

                    But is not the full picture.

                    Here's my link lol: https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-income-taxes/

                    Edit: Bezos 10 years ago had "zero income" but in recent years has been selling off billions worth of stocks. It's the big picture that matters. Not a year or two.
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            • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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              Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

              Forums make me snarky for some reason. But wealthy people didn't get stimulus checks. They phased out at $ 75K income for single and $ 150K for married.

              Oh they went big. Very big.


              Paycheck Protection Program

              PPP scams are in the Millions. Yacht buying, Mansion purchases, on and on.
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              • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
                Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

                Oh they went big. Very big.


                Paycheck Protection Program

                PPP scams are in the Millions. Yacht buying, Mansion purchases, on and on.
                Hi,

                PPP and the Advanced Child Tax Credits and Economic Impact Payments sent to families are different programs. Yes, the PPP program was abused. But was also way easier to abuse because of the differences in the programs and all the blah blah blahs.
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        • Profile picture of the author Matthew North
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          If you are trying to get out of poverty. You have to hide what you are doing from most of the other people around you . And not by nice things until you have move away from those who would steal your nice things while at work.

          Part of the the poverty trap involves replacing stuff other people steal

          I was totally unaware of that before I went on me travels the last 6 years
          I lived in the third world for some time as part of my digital nomad adventure, namely in Vietnam and Cambodia, so I think I know what you're talking about. My head needed to be on a swivel to avoid theft, scams, shortchanging, road traffic on the sidewalk, and the aggressive touts who were always pushing drugs, tuk tuk rides and illegal services on me. The apartment I rented out had a door and two sets of security fences to keep the thieves out. The fences were secured with a heavy chain and padlock that could be opened with a key outside. I had to redo the chain every time I left the house in the morning and again when I got home at night. The only safe place to park my motorbike was inside the living room.

          People there didn't leave anything remotely of value outside - not even a pair of old jandals or pot plants because people would steal them. One time I saw a woman get stabbed in the arm because a thief tried to cut through the strap of her handbag in an attempted robbery. I've had streetwalkers and gangs of small children try to steal my wallet. I also saw some guy sprint out of a market holding a live chicken by its legs.
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  • BiggerPockets - Community/Forums/Podcasts. It's beyond just a Real Estate knowledge dump. Been an active member ever since I jumped onboard the passive investing train. You get to learn how to make, keep and grow money from accomplished millionaires.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Chandana Raghunath View Post

      BiggerPockets - Community/Forums/Podcasts. It's beyond just a Real Estate knowledge dump. Been an active member ever since I jumped onboard the passive investing train. You get to learn how to make, keep and grow money from accomplished millionaires.
      Thanks. Real Estate with the exception of the Sub Prime fiasco, has withstood the test of time, for those suited to it. Some of us, just don't want all the people interaction.

      As you pointed out, forums and communities about RE investing have numbers into the tens of thousands of people. And once again, we can learn from what they are DOING, and adapt THAT to our own pursuits.

      BiggerPockets charges 39 a month, or 390 for the year. So, whomever is running that is having money come in, via their VIRTUAL RE, aka, website. Membership sites are also a tested and proven way with a long track record of viability, if the match; message to market, is right.

      The Warrior Forum, has several ways to take your money, so it serves as yet another example of how to DO the money making ventures...at one time it was a stream of income for an individual and then sold for a pretty penny too.

      That is also a great model, build it, milk the cash cow, sell it for a profit.

      As some have pointed out, there is great disparity between those who struggle, the working poor, and those with some investment funds, to those who were able to put all of their stimulus check into an investment. A chasm exists.

      This also demonstrates markets, in that, RE investment sites attract those people with money to invest and other sites, like WF, attracts those with little to no money to work with.

      From reading this thread, it appears that desire and motivation plays the largest role, and education also is important. Those who are in need and want, have a hard time spending their time DOING the money making activities, while chasing pots of gold at the end of the IM rainbow.

      Here is a simple way to think about making money:

      Why would anyone give you money? A-could be a gift. B-You hold a gun to their face. C-You find it on the ground. Or

      D. You have something they want/need.

      The first 3 ways, either get you into trouble, or debt, not welcome outcomes, eh?

      D. So, if people give you money for SOMETHING you have...and they want/need, and I'm not one to spend a lot of time differentiating the two...

      Then it becomes a question of: What do you have? What will you give them for their money?

      Where and when will they give it to you?

      By answering those simple questions, any Warrior can form a foundation to build off and from there it is a matter of learning how to scale up, out and widen your offers.

      Very few beginners or newbies, can make much happen quickly with RE, it is an area which requires (with few exceptions) TIME and study, and both those are in short supply for many here at the WF.

      GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Banned
      Some excellent insights begin shared!

      I wanted to leave a link to an article I was just reading on selling your baby.

      Your Business.

      He shares so many moments to learn from. Building. Scaling. Then the Acquisition and all it's high and lows.

      Great little read or watch. (Has a transcript as well.)

      https://builttosell.com/radio/episode-268/
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Gordon, thanks for starting this thread. I love it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      And my opinion as to why so many struggle is: the IMPORTANCE of knowing how to make money, isn't taught in our school systems. It never was, probably never will be. It doesn't serve Big Education's agenda.
      Originally Posted by Charlyne Masongsong View Post

      This is so true! This is especially true here in the Philippines.
      We are raised to become workers, not entrepreneurs. We are taught to earn money by means of a job, not make money from selling or creating something.
      The simple fact is that teachers are salaried employees, and nobody on a salary is qualified to teach entrepreneurship. Our current education system has largely been organized to make it easier for employers to filter suitable candidates for employment. That's the basic purpose of examinations and it's what determines what's taught in schools and colleges.

      Until the educational priorities change - and don't forget, our current system is still pretty much experimental, being a relatively recent addition to social culture - it's down to parents, guardians and the cultural environment to school the next generation in the importance of independence and self-sufficiency.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        The simple fact is that teachers are salaried employees, and nobody on a salary is qualified to teach entrepreneurship. Our current education system has largely been organized to make it easier for employers to filter suitable candidates for employment. That's the basic purpose of examinations and it's what determines what's taught in schools and colleges.

        Until the educational priorities change - and don't forget, our current system is still pretty much experimental, being a relatively recent addition to social culture - it's down to parents, guardians and the cultural environment to school the next generation in the importance of independence and self-sufficiency.
        Think about the last thirty years any valuable marketable skills where removed from k-12 education. So people had to be conditioned to take on debt to go to college to get so called marketable skills.

        A full time worker with a high school diploma make about 38,000 a year working full time.a person with a degree earns double that on average. And that is mostly by the time they are 40 . Degrees are the only legal form of discrimination in the USA so employers can demand a degree for almost any job.

        Also the economic growth of the USA has been tied to ever higher levels of debt. And having Americans consume as much as possible. If that stops everything crashes hard.

        Savage and I are having two different discussions He is talking about what the best do . Im talking about the options the majority of people have . As many options besides a 9-5 become available to support themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Banned
      I read a story about a young man in a very poor country who needed to figure out how to make money with no money.

      His neighbors thought he was crazy when he started rounding up old tires every day and piling them up in his yard.


      After he had a huge supply of old used tires he got to work.


      He began creating very durable foot sandals out of the rubber. Even made some of them look designer.


      They became so popular now his neighbors work for him.


      I read another story of a woman who is Billionaire because she shipped U.S.A. used cardboard to China for recycling.


      Pay attention to "waste" there could be gold in it.
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      • Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post



        They became so popular now his neighbors work for him.


        I read another story of a woman who is Billionaire because she shipped U.S.A. used cardboard to China for recycling.


        Pay attention to "waste" there could be gold in it.
        Another thing to get out of these stories is that once someone finds a way to make money, there is now evidence that the particular method works, and is duplicatable.

        If they can do it (and they have proven that they can) then others can do it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Another thing to get out of these stories is that once someone finds a way to make money, there is now evidence that the particular method works, and is duplicatable.

          If they can do it (and they have proven that they can) then others can do it.
          But it is a common model even people in the USA use to build business and wealth.

          Turn streams of waste into a product people want to buy. But it tend not to be sexy and require actual hard work where someone gets dirty. Not hours a day sitting in front of a computer . Most of it watching motivation videos
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          • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

            But it is a common model even people in the USA use to build business and wealth.

            Turn streams of waste into a product people want to buy. But it tend not to be sexy and require actual hard work where someone gets dirty. Not hours a day sitting in front of a computer . Most of it watching motivation videos
            Yup.

            Another way anyone with a computer can make money is to shop in yard sales and estate sales...put the items on E-bay. I know a few people making a really good living just doing that.

            I used to make a small fortune just putting classified ads in newspapers offering to buy specific things cheap, and another ad selling them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Yup.

              Another way anyone with a computer can make money is to shop in yard sales and estate sales...put the items on E-bay. I know a few people making a really good living just doing that.

              I used to make a small fortune just putting classified ads in newspapers offering to buy specific things cheap, and another ad selling them.
              Yes arbitrage is a great way people can earn money.

              But I was talking about people who take what s waste from some industrial process and turn it into a product .

              One day it's industrial waste the next it fluoride in water or whey protein or skim milk

              Buy low sell high is something everyone knows but few people actually get right most of the time and those who get it right build wealth the fastest.

              But there is also make stuff and sell for more than the cost to produce. Which get much easier it inputs are either free or something people pay you to take away

              Elon musk has an odd way of making the biggest problem Tesla faces into another business. So sometime in the near future Tesla will design is own semi conductor and build a factory to produce it's chip
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Banned
      Was on Facebook couple weeks ago and saw a friend had posted her screenshot displaying her Credit Score and you could see her bank Wells Fargo.

      A Perfect 850!

      I stopped by there today and a post stating she was hacked and any messages are not from her.

      People work so hard for their lifestyle but may not work as hard to protect it.
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      SOCIAL MEDIA MONETIZATION ON STEROIDS

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savage you have great info.

    Instead of the paycheck/investor spli the split that is becoming more dominant. Is people who earn money to support their lifestyle. And The Who earn money from their lifestyle.

    The more wages from full time jobs don't provide enough money for people to have the lifestyle they want. The more they find other ways to earn the money to get the lifestyle they want. And the harder it gets for employers to find workers.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Savage you have great info.

      Instead of the paycheck/investor spli the split that is becoming more dominant. Is people who earn money to support their lifestyle. And The Who earn money from their lifestyle.

      The more wagers from full time jobs don't provide enough money for people to have the lifestyle they want. The more they find other ways to earn the money to get the lifestyle they want. And the harder it gets for employers to find workers.
      The split you speak of those that earn to support their lifestyles... are living paycheck to paycheck... Those that earn money FROM their lifestyle... These are investors. Ill buy a dope stupid expensive car to make videos with and get tons of views. I cant have a dope car without a dope house with a dope pool and then I can make videos in the house and get tons of views. I can can get the other cool kids to rent a room in my dope house to pay for the house. The whole experience will be FIRE.

      What you see on YouTube, on Insta etc... are a bunch of young kids that UNDERSTAND Investment unlike any other age category.

      look at someone like Tanner Fox on Youtube. everything you see in his videos.. a Investment AKA a tax deduction. The videos themselves? they are Advertising expense for his clothing line. Roman Atwood, some thing... The Paul brothers... same thing

      In terms of finding employees... The economy has shifted, no question about that. The real pinch is the Boomers leaving the work force. retiring early.. saying "Screw it" to a 9 to 5 and moving into consulting... a great number of factors.

      There are far less kids under the age of 18 working this year say compared to 2 years ago, and I think for good reason.

      Employers have to shift with the times... I could see Encouraging my employees to "Share" their day in the life experiences on the job. The employee gets "content" and the employer gets we hope good exposure.

      As an example all of the "Assets" within my business are wide open for use by my "employees" and their family. Kids making decals... parents using my sound booth for podcasts... teaching husbands and kids about 3d printers and CNC machines etc. Have a green house dedicated to my employees coming in and growing their own veggies.

      Work to me is more than a "PayCheck" Look at Apple or Google it is the business culture that attracts the "BEST" Seen a Chic Fil A short staffed lately?
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


        What you see on YouTube, on Insta etc... are a bunch of young kids that UNDERSTAND Investment unlike any other age category.

        look at someone like Tanner Fox on Youtube. everything you see in his videos.. a Investment AKA a tax deduction. The videos themselves? they are Advertising expense for his clothing line. Roman Atwood, some thing... The Paul brothers... same thing
        Yeah, I watched some of that Atwood's YT videos. He really pushes the envelope. And the Paul brothers were my kids' fav back 4 years ago. They are not interested in them much anymore.

        Nonetheless they have really hit gold and they understood ,despite their bonehead shenanigans on camera , what building up wealth is all about. It's pretty impressive how they got to their positions at such a young age.

        I agree with Claude, Savidge has gone beast mode with his posts
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  • And my opinion as to why so many struggle is: the IMPORTANCE of knowing how to make money, isn't taught in our school systems. It never was, probably never will be. It doesn't serve Big Education's agenda.
    This is so true! This is especially true here in the Philippines.

    We are raised to become workers, not entrepreneurs. We are taught to earn money by means of a job, not make money from selling or creating something.

    Sad.
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  • Worst thing 'bout 'entreprenoor'?

    Nowan can actschwlly spell it.

    That is naht a cool start when you communin' with the Cosmos.

    Stars gaht authority that way.

    Tahp down burn.

    (You would want always for watery stuffs to trickle, but incineration says NO!)

    So I would want all these speshl people up their own ass to figure what happens next a little bettah, tyvm.

    All laddahs up lead equally noplace if'n laddahs may no longah stand.

    There!

    Now I put evrythin' right for evrywan!

    You Sound Unequivocal, O Princess!

    Are You CERTAIN?

    All I know is, I am makin' my way through a way neat burgah.

    It has a lettuce accompaniment an' everythin'.

    A troo nootrient mix.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Claude

    I remember my teachers in the fifth grade talking to each other whining how unfair it was people got paid millions of dollars to hit a baseball. When what they did was so much more important.

    Then later on about as much about business I learned in school was the widget. You invent a widget then go build a factory to make the widget. Then sell the widgets

    First full time job I had working in food processing I learned things work far differently.

    Now if we wanted to teach about money and business in school. The best this to do would be to have the IRS form a curriculum to teach the tax code.

    The majority of people with investment are not real investments their wealth is in the equity In their home and their retirement plan. Then you get into speculators.

    The only thing most Americans can really invest in is ammo
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post




      The only thing most Americans can really invest in is ammo
      ,

      OK, THE educational systems are lacking. HOWEVER, for any given Warrior, starting right here, there is as much useful, practical and applicable know how and how to as anyone would need.

      Well, maybe someday, somewhere, someone will improve the educational ideas, but it isn't a concern nor worry for anyone here in pursuit of some form of financial freedom, is it?

      It shouldn't be.

      Start at WF, use bing, google and youtube and find out pretty much anything you want on how to make money online. Making the right choice becomes the issue.

      And to circle back to the ranch, it begins with an assessment of skills, knowledge, experiences BEFORE the goal is set, which is opposite of what we see so many Warriors do.

      As for ammo, I'm not too scared of someone THROWING bullets at me, even the largest caliber, I probably can withstand.

      And that is what too many Warriors are doing, buying the ammo of how to make money online without having the means nor experience to fire it off, or if they do, to hit the target.

      Ten years, we see a lot of 10 year Warriors still NOT making it, why? They can't blame education for that, can they?

      For many years, I've stated the real lack of education in schools isn't about any given subject matter, but it lacks the ways of the world.

      How things, and PEOPLE, actually work and function in the real world.

      A simple thing like setting a goal X number of dollars isn't that complicated, nor need it be. Yet we see here, day after day, untold numbers who just can't DO it.

      So, sure, most of Big Education sucks (except for specialists) when it comes to Entrepreneurship, but then, the very idea that it is even needed may eliminate one from being one, eh?

      GordonJ

      Also, too many General Borders giving orders, and

      not enough Drummer Hoffs to fire it off.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        ,


        And to circle back to the ranch, it begins with an assessment of skills, knowledge, experiences BEFORE the goal is set, which is opposite of what we see so many Warriors do.

        As for ammo, I'm not too scared of someone THROWING bullets at me, even the largest caliber, I probably can withstand.


        Ten years, we see a lot of 10 year Warriors still NOT making it, why? They can't blame education for that, can they?

        How things, and PEOPLE, actually work and function in the real world.

        A simple thing like setting a goal X number of dollars isn't that complicated, nor need it be. Yet we see here, day after day, untold numbers who just can't DO it.

        GordonJ
        This may be snobbery on my account. But no one struggles at this for 10 years . I bet before the internet there where a large number of people with shelves full of mail order business opportunities. Who never did anything. But kept looking for that one that would make them rich with little work.

        People have their sights on passive income well before they make any income.

        Non of the stuff I read or watched mattered as much as as the when I went to Vegas the first time and ended up working in a costume I bought and grinding every day for well over a year.. and I was living off of what people chose to give me for taking photos.

        And I stayed in the mind warrior section until what 3 years ago so I have only kinda been on the forum for over ten years .

        The last course I bought was a 39$ course on domain flipping when I was in Vegas.

        If you dig into the people struggling for ten years you could do all they have really done over that ten years in a week. If you take your time.

        As for how people and things function in the real world. I have more of an appreciation at how well things function most of the time. Despite how dysfunctional most people and many of the things are.

        And personal opinion we don't need an educational system. We need a better free daycare system for working parents. The technology we have we can apply machine learning to education of humans and have a much better system in a year
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        • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          This may be snobbery on my account. But no one struggles at this for 10 years .
          Let's change that to...
          Nobody struggles at this for 10 years, if they are working daily to get better at marketing (or whatever the goal is).

          The 10 years isn't what's important...it's the cumulative effort.

          When someone says "I tried that for ten years and never made any money" (no matter what the endeavor was), what they mean is "Ten years passed while I dabbled...occasionally".

          There. I feel better now.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Let's change that to...
            Nobody struggles at this for 10 years, if they are working daily to get better at marketing (or whatever the goal is).

            The 10 years isn't what's important...it's the cumulative effort.

            When someone says "I tried that for ten years and never made any money" (no matter what the endeavor was), what they mean is "Ten years passed while I dabbled...occasionally".

            There. I feel better now.
            I have been eating pizza all my life. If I never make and sell pizza I can never claim to be in the pizza business.

            In the IM world just buying products regularly let people claim to be entrepreneurs and in the IM business .

            The cumulative efforts probably don't even amount to anything that be called trying

            Trying means you apply effort and something fail. Rather the attitude is the marketing made it look easy but reading through the first few page of this e course . This might take work.
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            • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              I have been eating pizza all my life. If I never make and sell pizza I can never claim to be in the pizza business.

              In the IM world just buying products regularly let people claim to be entrepreneurs and in the IM business .

              The cumulative efforts probably don't even amount to anything that be called trying

              Trying means you apply effort and something fail. Rather the attitude is the marketing made it look easy but reading through the first few page of this e course . This might take work.
              That reminds me of people that buy exercise equipment or diet plans.

              "I've tried every diet for ten years, and none of them work" or "I've been exercising for ten years and have nothing to show for it"

              What they mean is that they have bought 25 diet plans, or 15 pieces of exercise equipment...and have stayed on each program for about one day.

              Want to build muscle? work the muscle harder than average.

              Want to lose weight? Eat fewer calories than you burn.

              I actually get slightly nauseated when I think about when I sold marketing and advertising courses from the stage...and saying that any result they have had in the past, wasn't their fault.

              It was a lie that made me choke...but if I didn't say it, nobody bought.

              Because 95% of the buyers of courses on marketing/selling/advertising....almost anything else, are bought by the dreamers that will never actually do anything, except buy courses.

              Thank God for the 5% that actually did something.
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                That reminds me of people that buy exercise equipment or diet plans.

                Want to build muscle? work the muscle harder than average.

                Want to lose weight? Eat fewer calories than you burn.

                Thank God for the 5% that actually did something.
                I'm going to do this again. But when rich/ wealthy people want to lose weigh get in better shape . They hire a personal trainer and a personal chef to prep meals.

                Yeah they might be eating a lot of chicken and broccoli but it pasture raised hormone free chicken.

                Before you wrote that I was watching YouTube of famous people diets and home gyms. From actors to athletes. One had a dozen of eggs in their fridge but it was the eggs that cost like8$ a dozen from Whole Foods

                Side note I watch YouTube from people who live outside the United States for years. And naturaly lose a good amount of weight. Then come back to the states and find the only way Americans tend to socialize with each out is when the go out to eat somewhere. Or gather together and drink large amounts of alcohol.

                People must not go to each other's houses any more and chat around the kitchen table or the living room
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I am not going to requote Gordon's post . But I am going to ask what seems like a stupid question. What exactly is financial freedom? Or is it basically just another meaningless concept.

    I am overly biased so I will say for a majority of people it's when they no longer need to go into a job they hate every day . To earn the money to support their lifestyle.

    Where the people who achieve financial freedom where they can live off the income from their wealth. Will continue to work every day and keep building wealth.

    I'm naive, biased,and idealistic so so I believe the people in jobs they hate need to get into work they enjoy doing. Where I takes a long time to actually achieve financial freedom.

    Wealthy people and high earners do not speak the same English as the rest of the English speakers. Several of the terms and words have completely different meaning to people in different economic spheres.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      First, some heresy. I know many, many happy, fulfilled, successful people who ...

      get this...

      have a job. Or a career, profession or work for a paycheck and are thrilled with their lives. Some even have financial freedom, meaning, that if said career or job were lost, they would still be good financially.

      A specific example? OK. A former eye doctor, who could no longer work due to his own illness, was forced to give up his LUCRATIVE practice, and then fretted over his family's future and their financial security.

      He got some advice, and today, makes many multiples of his eye practice by doing something else (in his case, he went into injectables {like botox}).

      As for defining financial freedom, that has to be done on a personal level, doesn't it?

      The fisherman in San Felipe who only goes out twice a week and has enough to take care of his family for the rest of the week, while living the beach life, could consider himself to be financially free...and if he got sick, he could still lease his boat, put it to work 7 days a week and make more money than he ever did.

      I think most new Warriors come here with a couple of ideas, first to replace their current income, or to get one, mainly because they are NOT satisfied with their lives.

      Then, if they do get something going, a longer term idea might be to get to the point where they work less...

      HOWEVER, here is a truth.

      Most Warriors don't get it. Success, usually loves what it is doing. You'll see guys here who are multi-millionaires, and instead of working less, they are doing more, creating more projects, expanding existing ones, taking care of their employees.

      Financial freedom, is hardly ever a concern for success, because they know that if they lose everything, they just have to execute a new strategy to get back to it.

      So, define financial freedom however you want. But peace of mind, even if temporarily broke, is a good state to live in.

      GordonJ

      P.S.
      Those who live in the state of peace of mind,
      don't work in jobs they hate. It is almost always about the internal, not what is going on externally.


      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      I am not going to requote Gordon's post . But I am going to ask what seems like a stupid question. What exactly is financial freedom? Or is it basically just another meaningless concept.

      I am overly biased so I will say for a majority of people it's when they no longer need to go into a job they hate every day . To earn the money to support their lifestyle.

      Where the people who achieve financial freedom where they can live off the income from their wealth. Will continue to work every day and keep building wealth.

      I'm naive, biased,and idealistic so so I believe the people in jobs they hate need to get into work they enjoy doing. Where I takes a long time to actually achieve financial freedom.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        HOWEVER, here is a truth.

        Most Warriors don't get it. Success, usually loves what it is doing. You'll see guys here who are multi-millionaires, and instead of working less, they are doing more, creating more projects, expanding existing ones, taking care of their employees.

        Financial freedom, is hardly ever a concern for success, because they know that if they lose everything, they just have to execute a new strategy to get back to it.

        So, define financial freedom however you want. But peace of mind, even if temporarily broke, is a good state to live in.

        GordonJ

        P.S.
        Those who live in the state of peace of mind,
        don't work in jobs they hate. It is almost always about the internal, not what is going on externally.
        AMEN BROTHER... I "Work" more now than I ever have.. I am involved with more things now than I ever have been. Success begets success. BUT I love each and every minute of it, and if there is something I dont love... I simply dont do it.. and let me be real clear with that statement when i say "I dont do it" it does not mean me personally but hire someone else to... uh no, if I wont, no one around me is going to either - UNLESS there is some amount of communication and someone raises their hand and says "I love doing that"

        The other part of "Success" I have learned in literally the last few years is DIVERSITY... Look at the 2 "Richest" people on earth.. does one of them just make electric cars and does the other just sell books?
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          One of my mentors, local businessman ED BARR, was a 'serial' Entrepreneur; owning oil leases, stables, gift shops, restaurants...you remind me of him, he too was a great guy who looked after his employees and made a strudel to die for.

          Since you reminded me, and if it doesn't get me into too much hot water with the admins, I have created a new sig file which links to a distilled version of one of my more popular reports, FREE, of course. If this violates any rules, please delete, I think many Warriors reading this thread could find it useful.

          Anyhow, thanks savidge4 for making WF a priority when you can, you and your wisdom are greatly appreciated.

          GordonJ



          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          AMEN BROTHER... I "Work" more now than I ever have.. I am involved with more things now than I ever have been. Success begets success. BUT I love each and every minute of it, and if there is something I dont love... I simply dont do it.. and let me be real clear with that statement when i say "I dont do it" it does not mean me personally but hire someone else to... uh no, if I wont, no one around me is going to either - UNLESS there is some amount of communication and someone raises their hand and says "I love doing that"

          The other part of "Success" I have learned in literally the last few years is DIVERSITY... Look at the 2 "Richest" people on earth.. does one of them just make electric cars and does the other just sell books?
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savage

    As for the two richest people in the world currently. They are in the business of creating the next economy. And developing robots and other technology to replace human workers.

    Tesla has been turning vehicles into robots. And Amazon is developing or buying the companies developing the robots that replace their human workers.

    Did you read that not only has Elon sold all his mansions he has had boxable tiny home place near his giga plant in the USA that he stays in.

    Anyway there is so much the companies both of these guys are involved in are doing. They are latterly creating the next economic system. The post great reset economy.
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  • The phone rings in the 'secret multi-millionaire hideout in rural West Virginia'.

    "Hello," says Cynthia. "Who you wanna speak to, zackly?"

    Her $50,000 earpiece stays silent for a moment. Perhaps she hears a cough. Then a voice barks, "I'm after HIM. You know ... THE ONE."

    "I'd love to help you," says Cynthia, her voice filling with warmth and compassion till she takes a breath and dishes the hard deets, "but the whole purpose of a secret multi-millionare hideout in rural West Virginia is that I can reveal nothing about the 2,372 extraordinary people who hang out here. I'm not even permitted to tell you this secret multi-millionaire hideout isn't even in rural West Virfrickinginia."

    "But I need him to fix up my stuff," the voice continues, bark morphing uncomfortably into a poodle stance with visibly parabolic piss oozing from every skin pore.

    Cynthia HRMPHED with such venom she knew instantly her current $750 month pelvic floor therapy with DUANE was TOAST. "Yeah, everyone who calls in here says that. What makes YOU so special?"

    Five minutes later, she'd forgotten the whole incident.

    Just another asshole trying to get lucky.

    As she slipped on her coat on her way through security, a voice rang out from beyond the $1,000,000,000,000 diamond Zeus statuette display. "Did anyone call for me today, Cynthia?"

    She averted her gaze from the shallow specter peering from the doorway. "They did not."

    The car waiting outside sped her home, as always.

    Who cared if this wasn't rural West Virginia?

    The secret multi-millionaires paid well enough for now, and she would surely make it to the place of her dreams in the end ...
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  • Referring to the original question of the OP, a book that I read ages ago and really impressed me was "The Magic Of Thinking Big" by Richard J Schwartz. Of course Napolean Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" was also very impressive to me as that was the first time I'd ever really read about creating wealth.


    Stu
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    And my opinion as to why so many struggle is: the IMPORTANCE of knowing how to make money, isn't taught in our school systems. It never was, probably never will be. It doesn't serve Big Education's agenda.

    Well, I'm not going down that rabbit hole today, although I could, and maybe when I have my own daily radio program, I will...

    but, even the very basics of handling money are deemed less important in most school systems.


    ....
    So, I have a question for you all, for anyone really...what, in your opinion is the best book, course or information on gaining an understanding of how money works, how to get it, keep it and make it work for you.

    I have my own "ideas" of what this would be, but I want yours too.


    GordonJ

    I think it really boils down to:
    Am I happy with my current lot in life?

    Of course, like most I can write a novel but each time I ask myself questions along these lines it simply comes back again to this.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      I think it really boils down to:
      Am I happy with my current lot in life?

      Of course, like most I can write a novel but each time I ask myself questions along these lines it simply comes back again to this.
      Thanks socialentry,

      When I first posted this thread, I thought I would contact 2 or 3 a day from one of three groups.

      1) Doers. 2) Sellers. 3) Professionals and what happened was...

      I ended up talking to on average, 6 people a day, and now have over 100 conversations in the bag in the last 25 days. Once you get em started, just stand by.

      A couple of revelations. One, so many hairs got split, those who I thought were Doers claimed to be sellers, and others had different ideas altogether, so I just went with the flow.

      A sampling of people and I tried to get at least 2 doing the same thing or something similar. All contacts were made either within a mile or two of my place, or in NYC (Brooklyn mainly) when I took a long weekend there.

      Location wasn't relevant for the most part other than the huge concentration of people in a city make some businesses and money makers easier, just from traffic.

      Here is a partial list of some of the doers I spoke with:

      Lawncare guys (although most had landscaping on their trucks, albeit, I know professional landscapers, these guys mowed yards, big difference)...although I did talk to a couple of landscapers too.

      Window washers in business districts. Power washers, those cleaning homes, drives, parking lots etc,, also a couple of small asphalt guys. Tree trimmers. Trash collectors.

      Tennis and golf coaches, swim instructors, and gymnastic and dance teachers.

      Almost all of these DO something in exchange for value, dollars or otherwise.

      As stated, most sell too, but they don't think of themselves as salespeople, I really was able to split some hairs a dozen or so ways.

      SELLERS. A few car salespeople, new and used. An antiques dealer (shop keeper), two insurance agents, several Realtors at Open Houses and just as I came across them. Some door to door types, and in the big box and specialty retail stores.

      It wasn't comprehensive, nor scientific, just casual conversation about the STATE OF THEIR BUSINESS. Are they making money?

      Do they have enough work? What are they worried about? How do they perceive their futures?

      If anyone is interested, I'll share some of the conclusions I came to, much like this discussion, it took a lot of turns and twists...and I was actually WRONG about a couple of things I was so certain of (silly me).

      Talking and observing people is interesting and challenging and from my perspective, I had to do a little manipulation to get truth, rather than bias blather and talk which is very opposite of what the truth is.

      Anyhow, one CONCLUSION I have come to, both with this thread and my 100+ convos in the real world...

      is...

      very few people operate above a 202 level. If 101 is basic business and 999 is the top of the class with financial independence, very few make it to the 303 level. And the majority are barely passing the 101 business or making money level. That is one thing I am not wrong about.

      GordonJ
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


        If anyone is interested, I'll share some of the conclusions I came to, much like this discussion, it took a lot of turns and twists...and I was actually WRONG about a couple of things I was so certain of (silly me).

        Of COURSE I'm interested!

        What conclusions did you come to?
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Of COURSE I'm interested!

          What conclusions did you come to?
          OK, this could just be me and you, but what the hey, we're good for discussion, eh?

          Well, like I said, most of all, business people at all positions, don't really go beyond all they need to know to make a living, with modest increases yearly.

          Surprisingly, this goes to professionals too. Very few, including shop keepers like yourself, have any desire to go beyond where they are now. Sure, they may want to increase business, or make more profit, but as socialentry said, if they are basically happy, they just continue with what they do.

          I asked about retirement, savings and the future, and of course no stranger would come out and give me details, but by asking some questions, which seemed innocent enough, led me to believe, THERE IS VERY LITTLE SAVINGS taking place these days.

          And little to NO planning on expansion or growth.

          The DOERS tend to be (in a very general sense) anti-social, at least at holding jobs...they don't like bosses in general and don't want to be around other people. Now, that is a broad sweep...and only a small sample.

          But, they also aren't the best groomed folk either...and as far as that goes, neither am I.

          They want to DO something and get paid. Most with little to minimal skills, once they master the lawnmower, trimmer, leaf blower for example, they would not be interested in LEARNING about decorative plants. And this appears across the board.

          MINIMUM SKILLS to DO. Suits many people just fine.

          And here, we can correlate that to newbies who want to learn how to make money, with the most minimal skills needed...and so, like their real world counterparts remain in a cycle of

          minimum sustainable income.

          If the doer isn't doing, he/she isn't going to last long, but many have learned to get to that minimum level and SUSTAIN IT. X numbers of lawns mowed per week, X numbers of windows washed, X number of pizzas sold, etc., etc.

          Even the new shop owners on Front St. have minimal selling skills, a guy like you could come to town and do a workshop on retailing and clean up, all puns intended. But they really don't know ding about selling, or how to make their stores more appealing or attractive or how to get people in the door.

          Also, in professionals, talked to one of the most successful Commercial Realtors in town, and another, just down the street, one is BOOMING, the other starving. Difference? Don't really know, but just from our chatter, I'd say it was a MINDSET problem for the guy struggling, complaining he can't get listings, too much space available, too little demand, and the other doesn't have enough hours in his days for his business.

          Could be other factors, but just TALKING to them, the successful guy made me want to buy something, and the other guy, I left feeling depressed, had to stop in the ice cream store to cheer myself up.

          And THEY (ice cream) aren't marketing geniuses either, although they did great on these last couple of months of very hot summer days.

          I have other observations but for now.

          Your reactions would be appreciated:

          My very non scientific conclusions: MOST doers just have a job, and even though they might support themselves with it, it is a job and the boss doesn't really know what he is doing.

          Retail. Same thing.

          Food. All of our downtown restaurants ARE BOOMING since the Pandemic ended (so seems to be the general consensus). Food trucks on Mon,. Fri. and Sat. almost all said they were doing well...but "well" I suspect is that they barely sustain themselves.

          What do you think?

          Also, I feel (if I were a younger man) I would go into the LEAD GENERATION business and make a fortune from that, because marketing skills are lacked across the board of 80% (opinion) of all Doers, Sellers and Professionals.

          GordonJ
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          • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Also, I feel (if I were a younger man) I would go into the LEAD GENERATION business and make a fortune from that, because marketing skills are lacked across the board of 80% (opinion) of all Doers, Sellers and Professionals.

            GordonJ
            '
            OK, I group them more in the Doers, sellers, business owners.

            By that I mean the people who working their business, doing physical work.

            Sellers are almost all buying and selling. That's how they make nearly all their money.

            The Business owners, i separate because i mean these are the business owners that chiefly are growing their business. I've known all three extensively. To me, professionals are just doers or sellers with a permit or a license on the wall.

            Doers. I know, from your post , that you actually met these people. you are right, the majority are anti-social, and that's why they don't have jobs working for someone else. If I need someone to cut my grass, it may take three phone calls to listings before one returns my call at all. I don't know how these guys survive.

            And yes, most make a subsistence living.
            For example, in my core business of retail vacuum cleaner sales, the majority of the industry is made up of doers...thee are repair people that rent a small space and spend all day repairing vacuum cleaners. To them, they get paid by the hour. Most earn about the same as a decent job. Almost none make enough to grow or save any money. It's week to week.

            The sellers are a little different. 90% of sellers barely make enough to survive. But at least 10% actually make a good living. In my retail niche, the guys that actually sell, make far more than the repair guys. But even the sellers in my niche almost never read a book on selling.

            In fact, at my industry's annual trade show, about 2,000 retailers show up. These are at least able to afford the trip. These are people who all have a retail location, advertise at least a little, and have a business phone.

            Of the 2,000...maybe 1,200 are basically repair people who work for themselves. Maybe 800 actually make sales on a daily basis. How many actually show up to marketing and sales seminars? Maybe 100. and every year, it's the same 100. These are the people that are real sellers. But they are also the ones I call business owners.

            Business owners are the marketers. They may also know selling, but not always. But they always study marketing.

            My guess is that 5% of people that own a business know anything at all about marketing or selling. Unfortunately, they don't really want to know. The 5% that are actively growing their business are the ones that study marketing, read books on selling, and are friends with the other people at the top of their industry.

            You said "Also, in professionals, talked to one of the most successful Commercial Realtors in town, and another, just down the street, one is BOOMING, the other starving. Difference? Don't really know, but just from our chatter, I'd say it was a MINDSET problem for the guy struggling, complaining he can't get listings, too much space available, too little demand, and the other doesn't have enough hours in his days for his business."

            Man, that sure rings true. I've been told the same thing by lots of businesspeople that are starving. "Nobody is buying, the economy stinks, all buyers are liars, everyone is a low price shopper, advertising doesn't work in my area...in my business".....and they go on and on.

            As I listen, I want to scream "But we are all selling the same people! In the same area, the same consumers, the same economy, the same weather, the exact same prices".

            And after decades, the painful truth is this...they are doing it to themselves. And they cannot see it. This is who they are. And if you tell them how to double their business, they won't believe you. Why? It isn't who they are.

            If they suddenly made a good living, and started actually growing their business...they would have to change who they are...change what they are, how they think. They would have to change their friends, maybe lose the spouse that is also used to life being a certain way.

            When I was a very young man, I remember my car's gas tank was always under a quarter of a tank. I had friends that never had a full tank of gas. One day it dawned on me "For a one time price of $15,(more than I'm spending now) my tank would always be near full. I would never have to worry about gas again".

            But for awhile, my self image was the guy without gas in his tank. So I know how these strugglers think.

            Anyway, there's probably more, but I'm out the door again. I'm enjoying this immensely.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


              Shortened for a quote.



              My guess is that 5% of people that own a business know anything at all about marketing or selling.

              Unfortunately, they don't really want to know.

              The 5% that are actively growing their business are the ones that study marketing, read books on selling, and are friends with the other people at the top of their industry.



              Anyway, there's probably more, but I'm out the door again. I'm enjoying this immensely.
              Thanks Claude for engaging, looking forward to more.

              A couple of points. One, I live in a medium city (50K) which is very condensed. We don't have the farms and cow pastures right out side of town. I walk about 5 miles a day, always a different route, but almost always through our 3 block downtown. Library, high school, community center, aquatic center, fitness center, banks, Post Office, City Hall, and a strip of downtown merchants. So everyday, I engage with a lot of people.

              Most would tell you I'm a friendly fellow, always chatting...but the chats are always purposeful. One thing I love about the Sandler system is we (using it) always know where we are at, even if the other person PERCEIVES rambling and roaming. It has a purpose or a finish line. Well, not every "Hi, how's it going?" needs that structure, but when mining for INFORMATION, which most people readily and easily give you, if you don't offend them or make them think you want something from them.

              Anyhow. The opportunity.

              I think Claude is right on when he says: "My guess is that 5% of people that own a business know anything at all about marketing or selling.

              Unfortunately, they don't really want to know. {Emphasis mine}

              The biggest mistake Warriors and others make when trying to pitch these businesses on whatever it is they are selling...they start off as salespeople, and unless you disarm them first, and then agree to give you a little time...what might better work for them would be...

              to start with acknowledgement of their NOT WANTING TO KNOW.

              I'm sure Claude has a lot more technique and tricks in his bag than I do, but setting up the conversation from the get go, even if it is taken as light conversation (weather, business good//OK, sports)...is one key to getting DATA as we now know it, which can be transmuted to a foundation of a very lucrative relationship.

              Today, one of my ice breakers, is, are you as sick as I am of all the ads on the Internet, I almost hate to check my email. Is there anyone reading this who wants to see even more advertising coming at you online? Really?

              So the opportunity is a DONE FOR YOU program, but if you come at them from YOU trying to SELL them SOMETHING...you will get the more than normal resistance.

              BUT, if you are either thinking out loud or asking the right questions, so up at my local vacuum store (been there for 40+ years) I might start a convo with sports, but soon will tell of my friend in Wooster who has this vacuum business figured out...and what HE does is__________________ This not very good example just to illustrate conversation turning toward the

              I know a guy

              Like Denzel in the movie...

              I know a guy, who does INSERT DONE FOR YOU MARKETING technique...

              for people like ME and YOU who hate marketing.

              But just to reiterate a point, if you are young and want a great business, spend the next 3 years setting up and learning all you can about LEAD GENERATION because you have about 95% of those that don't care about learning but may gladly pay you to do the marketing for them.

              LEAD gen, one of my big take aways from my little urban walk about.

              GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Sorry for not posting on this thread sooner. I have been in Importing product from China purgatory.

            A couple of points that remained in my mind...

            The discussion of lawn care individuals and how the heck do they stay in business. I happen to provide services for a good amount of these individuals. The problem is they "Work" so if you call them at 2 in the afternoon, no they do not answer, they are working. The solution I provide for my clients is to "Set Expectations" In all of their advertising and even their voice mail message... "It is best to call between 5pm and 7pm for new inquires" Obviously doesn't work 100% of the time, but it sure helps a whole lot.

            And this leads me to the next point. Sales DOES NOT equal work, and Generating leads DOES NOT equal work. How many times have we heard advertising takes to much time or selling takes to much time? Using the lawncare guy above, but you can insert a shop owner or a service provider, or any tradesman into this scenario... They are to busy WORKING 8 hours a day to do any of this stuff that might actually get them business. Pushing a mower is "Working". Standing behind a register in your little mom and pop store is "Working" Being out in the field replacing freon in an AC system is "Working" and in ALL of these instances, the annoying phone call of do you have or can you fix is taking them all away from "Work".

            So to get passed this you have to "Grow" In one of 2 directions. Someone else is doing the work, OR someone else is answering the phone. And to be honest finding someone competent enough to do either of these is not an easy task. I know more than my share of people that have delegated to their significant other, and I am not so sure that is a viable answer 99% of the time.

            There is a third route in all of this as well. Something that I have personally practiced for years. dedicate a block of time each day for selling. Like the lawncare example above call us from 5 to 7pm right? 2 hours right? In the same time frame every day someone could have taken photos from the work day and posted before and after photos on social media. Or simply just post on social media Hey, I am a plumber and my office is located in X town, and we would be happy to assist you with any plumbing issues you might have.

            If I am onboarding a client for each and every service I provide,., if the prospect can not dedicate 2 hours a day.. they simply may not be a perfect fit for me. I can drum up more business for a client than they can shake a stick at, but if they cant answer the phone, then no matter what I do, my services are useless to them, and wasting my time and their money. For me, and my business THIS is critical, for the relationship I hold with my clients AND for personally for my business.

            Mastery - 10,000 hours. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year for 5 years that is what mastery looks like. Is all of that time required to be successful? uh no. Does it help to know someone with the time put in already? and the answer I think is YES. I didnt know even close to all I should know to break ground on a hydroponic green house, BUT I surrounded myself with people that did. Trying to think back I am not sure I had 20 hours invested in the idea before I was making phone calls. I had a base knowledge of a small DIY project to feed my sons rabbits, and after that, it was just a matter of scale.

            Towards the bottom of this post ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...l#post11494254 ) I shared the amount of time it took to make a silly amount of money in a month selling on eBay. Ironically it was 2 hours a day for 30 days that totaled 56 hours in total.

            20 hours in 2 hour a day increments is 10 days in total. In most things in life that one wants to do that should be all that is needed to get into the right direction towards "Success". Its simply a matter of finding someone that knows way more than you that provides their knowledge of the subject within those first 20 hours.

            We live in a day and age when anything and everything is right there in front of you, you simply have to spend some time to find it. I would go so far as to say that if you spend enough time, everything you would ever need to know about just about anything is going to be FREE.

            Want to know more about copywriting check out Brian Clark at copyblogger com. Want to start an online business look up Pat Flynn at smartpassiveincome com. Want someone to yell at you and ask why haven't you done this yet? check out Gary Vaynerchuk at garyvaynerchuk com

            FREE resources are all around you... success isnt having the best idea in the world. Success is directly correlated to those around you. And thats the beauty of living in the current time... you dont even have to KNOW the person to reap the benefit of "knowing" them. There simply are tons of people that wear their watch on their sleeve and take off their shirt.

            Hope that Helps!
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              Sorry for not posting on this thread sooner. I have been in Importing product from China purgatory.


              FREE resources are all around you... success isnt having the best idea in the world. Success is directly correlated to those around you. And thats the beauty of living in the current time... you dont even have to KNOW the person to reap the benefit of "knowing" them. There simply are tons of people that wear their watch on their sleeve and take off their shirt.

              Hope that Helps!
              With what is going on in China and the expenses going on now getting stuff shipped from China how rapidly do you thing we will see manufacturing moved to North America.

              Between the free resources and the rapid drop in capital equipment costs or consumer equipment that can be used as capital equipment. And the number of people showing how they are using lower cost technology to produce things. For personal use or to sell.

              You have mentioned setting up many of your operations on renewable resources. If you build from the ground up do you build a passive building that requires much less energy to heat and cool then go with geothermal. But I bet you put the systems in for a fraction the cost a normal system is put in. And then use solar panels. To generate the needed power.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                With what is going on in China and the expenses going on now getting stuff shipped from China how rapidly do you thing we will see manufacturing moved to North America.
                The short answer to this is we will NOT see an increase in manufacturing. With the current political condition in the States, its simply not possible. #1 the energy required, #2 the chemical and solid components, and #3 the environmental impact of #1 and #2 make the idea non feasible.

                How many batteries for solar energy are made In the United States currently.. as in 100% made here? not a one.. its all coming from China, if its not China directly then its Taiwan. I can see a shift towards India happening thats for sure. The current position on Solar panels from China ( as in you cant import them right now ) let alone even getting the parts to make them, because again they are in China.. nd the Solar industry is looking at a huge crash in inventory, and huge increase in pricing - and we are already seeing this.

                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                Between the free resources and the rapid drop in capital equipment costs or consumer equipment that can be used as capital equipment. And the number of people showing how they are using lower cost technology to produce things. For personal use or to sell.
                I get what you are saying, but none of this is at "Scale" Its great for the little guy, but wont work at scale... and again even below scale where are the "Raw" materials and pre assembled parts coming from? and again the answer is China.

                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                You have mentioned setting up many of your operations on renewable resources. If you build from the ground up do you build a passive building that requires much less energy to heat and cool then go with geothermal. But I bet you put the systems in for a fraction the cost a normal system is put in. And then use solar panels. To generate the needed power.
                I absolutely build passive. There are standards for "Passive Building" and in each instance in the last 5 years, I have met and 99% of the time exceeded "Passive" requirements. I have a building right now, about 2000 sqft that has no heating system in place. The heat generated from conditioning the outside air ( removing the moisture ) is enough to heat the entire space. Basically 2 hair dryers are heating 2000 sqft. And it "blew" a .26 on its blower door test - SUPER tight building.

                Heating a space is obviously a lot easier than cooling a space. I try to implement in floor heating whenever possible. Its super easy to heat water to 90 degrees that in turn heats an insulated concrete slab. Which works wonderfully a green house environment. Works really well in living and work spaces as well. Its the cooling aspect that has to be looked at. 4 inches of Poly Iso foam on the outside of exterior walls creates a R24 ( continuous ) value, then add the R19 in the 2x6 walls and you end up with a R34 to R38 Insulated wall. Same 4 inches of Poly Iso on the roof with an R30 Bat in the ceiling and you are sitting at R50ish... then on new builds you can have 4 inches of Solid core foam with a below floor R20 value... You can heat rooms with Candles ( literally ) And your cooling costs plummet drastically.

                The only real added expense in building this way is #1 obviously the insulation, and #2 using thermal broke triple pained glass windows and doors.

                The expense with installing geo thermal as an example is the holes the piping needs to get to below surface temperature, after that the expense is about the same be it a gas fired unit, or electric. And yes i use Solar to power the blowers. Even in my own home I have a gas fired furnace, and the blower portion of the system for heating and cooling is operated on Solar energy. My 20amp blower can run for 8 days without the battery being charged, and of course its hooked to panels.. so the chance of my system "running out of power" is slim and none.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    Great post . Did you ask the lawn care guys if they had plow to put on their trucks in the winter to clean off driveways and parking lots.

    I find those I know who do the thing have a few other things they do in the slow period to do and earn money. And there is a fair amount of bartering or service trading. That might not get documented

    Anyway very good post
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      Great post . Did you ask the lawn care guys if they had plow to put on their trucks in the winter to clean off driveways and parking lots.

      I find those I know who do the thing have a few other things they do in the slow period to do and earn money. And there is a fair amount of bartering or service trading. That might not get documented

      Anyway very good post
      .

      YES, Odahh, you are right on all counts. Almost all had trucks. In winter the plows come out. Many "rent" their trucks out, not officially of course, but do deliveries at the holidays and such. And the Barter too, but I believe it is more of a trading of services, and more like a you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, but nonetheless is mutually beneficial.

      Now the PRO landscaper, goes into his green house in the winter and starts preparing for the next season, and has plenty to do, even though his income may drop down, over the course of the year, he'll make far more than the lawn mower/snow shoveler/tow truck driver will.

      We don't discuss much barter here at WF, but it really can be a terrific money maker if one learns how to do it right.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author SFuel
    Money buys pretty much all those things lol

    well except faith

    thanks for the book recommendation
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    HA!

    Of course they don't really want to be successful or grow a business their families probably thing they are bums who can keep a job or should be working for a corporation with benefits and retirement plans.

    As long as they are struggling every week but still paying their bills they can play the game of being to busy. If they got it down to earning all the money they needed in a few days. They would have people showing and thinking the are a source of free labor

    "Well sense you are not to busy can you help with. Blah blah blah

    Added later

    Gordon mentioned the pro landscaper with the green house. Landscaping trees and shrubs can take 1 to 2 years to grow with a few dollars and a square foot of floor space with occasional watering . When the landscaper plants them in a customers yard. They easily charge from 30$ to over $100 per tree or shrub.

    So we get into the mindset of sales people and business people. Versus the people selling their labor week to week.

    And with that model they can raise shrubs and trees and sell them to other landscapers and still make nice profits

    So you start getting in real entrepreneurs

    I have been convinced for a long time most who start businesses are just replacing what ever income they had. So it is interesting to study how people make good amounts of money.

    The pro landscaper also will sell to wealthy clients willing to spend thousands or tens of thousands on landscaping every year
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      HA!
      As long as they are struggling every week but still paying their bills they can play the game of being to busy.


      Most Doers (guys who are the workers in their service business), have a strong tendency..

      The time it takes to do a job expands to fill all the time, so they can always say that they are working. Of course, not everyone does this, but I see it all the time.

      Take my business, for example. Guys have small shops and they service vacuum cleaners.

      I'm not joking. They are always backed up for two weeks. It's like an immutable law. If they get backed up for a month, they work faster. If they get close to current, they work slower. And the truth is, they could always...always give next day service if they ever wanted to catch up...once.

      Me? I try very hard to handle any service while they wait. I get paid right away, and their dirty vacuum isn't junking up my store. At most, they wait a day for me to get a part.

      But the industry is stuck in the idea that it takes two weeks to get anything done.

      I was at my friendly competitor...a very nice guy who fixes vacuum cleaners and sewing machines. He told me that he had a record week. He was very happy to tell me that he took in over $1,000 that week. It would have been cruel to tell him we average that every day. In the same town, selling the same people, in the same economy, the same advertising opportunities, buying from the same suppliers.

      And to be clear, there are people doing what I'm doing, that take in a million or more a year. My limiting factor isn't belief, or understanding what's possible. My limiting factor is a lack of interest in building a business that requires employees.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      It was before Y2K. I sat in his dining room eating fresh baked cookies, his boys played in the next room. We made a little "kitchen table" interview, back then we were still selling VCR tapes.

      His website is now one of the longest running online, you can find it at freeplants dot com. His name is Mike McGroarty, today, his son Dustin is a successful Internet Marketer too.

      Mike caught my eye with his backyard gardens, and selling several thousand plants in the Spring, from his driveway, for 5 bucks each. He made more in 3 weeks than most IMer's today make in a year. He also has produced some great information products on IM.

      Back then, he was mostly into landscaping plants, but I see today, he covers all the garden, orchard and even how to make money with your own backyard garden.

      The other pro landscaper I know is also a millionaire, and he works his butt off, but loves what he does. He now has a full year round place, and even a Christmas tree farm. His specialty is the WALL, especially those railroad ties, anyone with a wall knows the earth will reclaim its space. He is one of a few that I know of which ANCHORS the wall, at least 10 feet back, and his walls stay straight for decades, where most last a couple of years and have to be redone.

      Anyhow, Both Mike and Fred are hard working guys, both LOVE what they do.

      Much different from the guy riding the lawnmower, working for his pack of Marlboros and 12 pack every evening.

      If you want an education on how one guy did the Internet, use the wayback machine and start looking at McGroarty's site from 1998 on, and you will see a growth pattern which is pretty hard to beat. His son Dustin has become an expert in affiliate marketing too.

      Claude made a great point about EMPLOYEES too, how he (nor I) doesn't want any. I think we both know we are leaving money on the table, but it isn't worth it to me to have to deal with employees, which is for me a four letter (cuss) word...in spite of the numbers of letters. EMPLOYEES= YIKES.

      Most Warriors, may operate as one person operations, many of the successful ones which post, have several (many even) employees and love that part of their business too.

      As we explore the making of money, from 101 the basics to 999 the PROS, there is a lot to choose from, but it seems, and you will find this to truth out...most of the Warriors who operate successful businesses seldom just dove in, but gave consideration to their own skills, knowledge and lifestyle preferences.

      Although my place only has a 21 year wayback machine depth, guys like Mike were hitting it on the head in those ancient days of the 90's, I guess we can now call them the Roaring 90's, not many have learned about times before they existed...although history can certainly turn up some winning ideas which could be modernized.

      GordonJ

      P.S. As an afterthought, I met a guy over a decade ago who started growing horseradish plants, and he experimented. Maybe 6 or so years ago, he started making different flavors and selling them, I think within the last year, he sold his "farm" and factory off for an 8 figure sale. Something to think about.




      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      HA!

      Of course they don't really want to be successful or grow a business their families probably thing they are bums who can keep a job or should be working for a corporation with benefits and retirement plans.

      As long as they are struggling every week but still paying their bills they can play the game of being to busy. If they got it down to earning all the money they needed in a few days. They would have people showing and thinking the are a source of free labor

      "Well sense you are not to busy can you help with. Blah blah blah

      Added later

      Gordon mentioned the pro landscaper with the green house. Landscaping trees and shrubs can take 1 to 2 years to grow with a few dollars and a square foot of floor space with occasional watering . When the landscaper plants them in a customers yard. They easily charge from 30$ to over $100 per tree or shrub.

      So we get into the mindset of sales people and business people. Versus the people selling their labor week to week.

      And with that model they can raise shrubs and trees and sell them to other landscapers and still make nice profits

      So you start getting in real entrepreneurs

      I have been convinced for a long time most who start businesses are just replacing what ever income they had. So it is interesting to study how people make good amounts of money.

      The pro landscaper also will sell to wealthy clients willing to spend thousands or tens of thousands on landscaping every year
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        His website is now one of the longest running online, you can find it at freeplants dot com. His name is Mike McGroarty, today, his son Dustin is a successful Internet Marketer too.
        Small world. Mike McGroarty is a very good friend of mine. One of the most generous and smartest marketers I know, His son Dustin, always very quiet, is a remarkable marketer in his own right.

        One of my aunts found out that I knew Mike, and it was like she found out I knew Elvis Presley.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Small world. Mike McGroarty is a very good friend of mine. One of the most generous and smartest marketers I know, His son Dustin, always very quiet, is a remarkable marketer in his own right.

          One of my aunts found out that I knew Mike, and it was like she found out I knew Elvis Presley.
          Mike has left the garden.

          HA! (He'd never do that.)

          I think he is the most consistent marketer out there, I wouldn't bet against him wearing the same overalls he did in the '90's. Few gurus go back over 20 years and have retained their message, and have consistently evolved as Mike has done.

          Dirt farmer? Sure. OK. But dumb? I have to call him out on that part.

          GordonJ

          Also, I think he hums an Elvis version of MY WAY as he propagates his profits.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Small world. Mike McGroarty is a very good friend of mine. One of the most generous and smartest marketers I know, His son Dustin, always very quiet, is a remarkable marketer in his own right.

          One of my aunts found out that I knew Mike, and it was like she found out I knew Elvis Presley.
          The more I study the top 10 percent not just in the USA but around the world. For the most part they do everything different from those not in the top.

          The top 10 percent on average live ten years longer and put off the onset of diseases of old age for 9. Seems the chronic stress of living paycheck to paycheck in survival mode. Causes the body to break down sooner. Consider how many bad habits are tied to people coping with this stress.

          But then without stress humans wither until it causes its own stress.

          But the top 10 percent apply stress where it challenges them to get better and over come that stress then go on to the next challenge. Rather than just getting better at coping
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          • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

            The more I study the top 10 percent not just in the USA but around the world. For the most part they do everything different from those not in the top.

            The top 10 percent on average live ten years longer and put off the onset of diseases of old age for 9. Seems the chronic stress of living paycheck to paycheck in survival mode. Causes the body to break down sooner. Consider how many bad habits are tied to people coping with this stress.

            But then without stress humans wither until it causes its own stress.

            But the top 10 percent apply stress where it challenges them to get better and over come that stress then go on to the next challenge. Rather than just getting better at coping
            There are other reasons the top earners live longer.

            They tend to be smarter than average. And they need to keep up energy. If you see 100 runners, most will be more successful. They take better care of themselves, because top earners have a healthy self image, and it takes work to maintain it.

            Also, they tend not to completely retire. Most don't have jobs they hate. Most people cannot wait to retire....to stop working. But achievers actually tend to enjoy the work.

            And...I hate to say this, but we aren't all born with the same health, strength, intelligence, drive, self image, and willingness to do more to get ahead.

            One thing that stands out to me though, is that intelligence only helps with financial success up to a point. For example, most wealthy people have above average IQs. But past 140 or so, it doesn't help more.

            Spending habits are way different between the top 10% and the rest of us. Not because there is more or less money, but the way they see money. the way they manage their money. What they spend it on.

            An interesting statistic in salespeople is that the top 10% of earners earn half off all the money. The other 90% earn the remaining half.

            So the average "Top 10% rep" earns an average of 9 times what the average "Lower 90%" earns.

            The same products, same industries, same economy, same pricing...different reps.

            In fact, a big difference between salespeople and other professionals is a vast one.

            With the vast majority of professions, there is an earnings bell curve. The majority of the professionals are grouped at the middle, with a small number at the bottom, and a small number at the top.

            With salespeople, that curve is inverted. 10% make the real money, and the other 90% are barely surviving...with almost nobody in the middle.

            Why? Because 90% of all of us don't have the ability or initiative to learn how to sell, In other professions, technical ability can make you a great living. You don't need great sales ability to be a high earning doctor, dentist, contractor, plumber, firefighter.

            But in selling, sales ability is everything. It's the whole job. So the "non-salespeople" just don't make it very far. But the ones with sales ability, group at the top.

            .
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        It was before Y2K. I sat in his dining room eating fresh baked cookies, his boys played in the next room. We made a little "kitchen table" interview, back then we were still selling VCR tapes.



        GordonJ

        P.S. As an afterthought, I met a guy over a decade ago who started growing horseradish plants, and he experimented. Maybe 6 or so years ago, he started making different flavors and selling them, I think within the last year, he sold his "farm" and factory off for an 8 figure sale. Something to think about.
        These are my favorite business to study. I naturally gravitate too ingredients over finished products. If I go the route of growing ingredients. I am setting in on thing that preserve their flavors and nutrients with freeze drying that can then be stored for 20 years.

        Focus on high end stuff for the wealthier people in the prepper market..I prefer wealthy lifestyle peepers versus poor doomsday preppers
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          These are my favorite business to study. I naturally gravitate too ingredients over finished products. If I go the route of growing ingredients. I am setting in on thing that preserve their flavors and nutrients with freeze drying that can then be stored for 20 years.

          Focus on high end stuff for the wealthier people in the prepper market..I prefer wealthy lifestyle peepers versus poor doomsday preppers
          I know savidge4 has his greenhouses, and would love an update if he is willing on how Covid affected that part of his business. Maybe a year or so ago, WF had a nice discussion on micro gardens.

          Just wanted to point out, there ARE people going hot and heavy at this, but to get to that big buyout, and savidge4 would know about that too...creativity doesn't hurt.

          From basement mushrooms, snails, spices or weeds (not weed, albeit a pretty good cash crop I hear) but weeds like horseradish and such...with a twist, a turn, some savvy MARKETING and one can carve out a niche in an existing industry with a little time and effort.

          I do disagree about poor doomsday preppers, most I know are not poor at all, more like middle class and the wealthy, well sure, they get the nitrogen packed survival food for 20 years, but they don't handle the guns or bullets themselves and IFFIN the IT comes at them, they'll find their private security forces default to the self interest side...and the Hell's Angels types know where they keep all that tasty food. And won't hesitate to confiscate what they need.

          Anyhow, there is STILL huge opportunities for small little specialty growers of something different, unique, and it will remain that way until Angels freeze over.

          GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Basic math and running numbers. How does he stay in business if $1000 a week is a high earning week for his business.

    I remember reading that it wasn't Walmart that destroyed many small retail stores it was the credit and debit card machines . Because a lot of small shops where doing a lot of cash business that didn't get recorded. I don't know how true it was though.

    Honestly I don't think 90 percent of people are still thinking in terms of what was a lot of money to make 30 years ago and not increase it with inflation.

    It great when the conversation gets deeper that mindsets and explain what behaviors are present in each mindset. So someone can identify where they need to change. Or if they can't change accept the mindset. They have without beating them selves up
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Basic math and running numbers. How does he stay in business if $1000 a week is a high earning week for his business.
      He pays very little rent. He probably averages $500 a week in business, of which $300 is his to keep. He probably takes $1,200 a month out of the business as profit.

      He also gets a pension for being in the service, and he gets Social Security. His wife works too.

      To him, it's more a hobby than business. He often takes vacations from work, and just closes his store for several days. He says he has a business, but he treats it as a part time job.

      He's a wonderful guy. But he's at the bottom of the scale as far as business. In my industry, I used to be in the top 1%...now I'm somewhere in the middle for a well run store.

      This may be interesting. In my business, the retail store owners come from two places.

      The majority used to fix vacuum cleaners for another store, and then decided to do it on their own. These guys are the fix-it shops. And once in a while they stumble onto a sale.

      The other group used to sell high end vacuum cleaners in people's homes. They are used to selling $2,000 vacuum cleaners to people who aren't interested at all. Once they open a store, and people actually walk in the store...at least thinking about buying...the sales are pretty easy, and the average sale is much higher than in the fix-it shops.

      So, my buddy may sell 2 or 3 vacuum cleaners a month. Maybe less. And his business is maybe 95% service (and over the counter sales) and 5% sales of new machines.

      My business is 95% new vacuum cleaners and about 5% everything else.
      He and I are a different species.

      He owns a business (sort of) but he still thinks like an employee. There is nothing wrong with that. But we just think in a different way.
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      I remember reading that it wasn't Walmart that destroyed many small retail stores it was the credit and debit card machines . Because a lot of small shops where doing a lot of cash business that didn't get recorded. I don't know how true it was though.
      It isn't the credit card machines. Cards make selling easier.

      It used to be Walmart and other discount stores that hurt small retailers. Now it's Amazon and all online shopping.

      And people who still buy from small local retailers are shrinking in number, getting older.

      For example, in my business, the average business owners are in their 60s and 70s. And it's now very rare that we sell a vacuum cleaner to someone in their 20s and 30s. Nearly all are middle aged or elderly.

      We are aging out, and the customers are aging out. I'm only speaking about small local specialty stores.

      For the last several years, our business has shrunk a few percent a year. I suspect that in 10 years, we wouldn't be able to make a living in our store, without selling online an matching online prices.

      We are scheduled to close in about April or May of next year.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        It isn't the credit card machines.

        For the last several years, our business has shrunk a few percent a year. I suspect that in 10 years, we wouldn't be able to make a living in our store, without selling online an matching online prices.

        We are scheduled to close in about April or May of next year.
        What I am paying to know is that with automation it is getting much cheaper to produce things in the USA or at least North America. And with the shipping issues. Supply chains will come back over the next few years.

        Manufacturers can also employ models where the produce small batches and send them out as customers order or manufacture the product after it is order and send it out. When you remove the assembly line worker and only need a machine operator or a technician to fix the machine. There is a lot more flexibility and much less overhead keeping dozens of worker busy and off their smart phones for 8 hours a day


        My view people will have little choice but to figure out hotties create their own jobs as Bezos and musk are automating every thing they can as fast as they can.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon I agree with you .

    All though all preppers are called doomsday preppers the upper middle class and wearisome it more as a chosen lifestyle. While the poor who pre do it because their incomes give them little choice. And they despise handouts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Top earning people tend to have to sell people on their abilities. And sell to people with the money to pay them what they believe they are worth.

    They tend to be competitive but only when it comes to those with about the same skill level or slightly better. And they work around or with the best in other fields if it means they do better.

    Much of the focus ends up being on the unicorn or super stars when it comes to success. But around them they attract the best.

    I think I finally nailed the element i was looking for with the response to stress. As far as where people need to start focusing as they shift mindsets .

    Then it figuring out what you can do to be among the best where is that line to get in the top 10 percent. Because that is where those who make the most money in a field do so

    Blah blah I'm rambling
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post


      Much of the focus ends up being on the unicorn or super stars when it comes to success. But around them they attract the best.
      The unicorns and superstars aren't in the top 10%. They are in the top .001% (I suppose that also puts them in the top 10% as well).

      The top 10% are just competent. If you just have slightly higher than average intelligence, luck, ambition, and persistence. you'll almost be in the top 10% automatically.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        The unicorns and superstars aren't in the top 10%. They are in the top .001% (I suppose that also puts them in the top 10% as well).

        The top 10% are just competent. If you just have slightly higher than average intelligence, luck, ambition, and persistence. you'll almost be in the top 10% automatically.
        A high level of commence in one or a few related areas maybe not the best .

        The unicorns and super stars are like savage and master several areas.

        You get in the top 1 percent when people cross into mastery. And people either have the drive to achieve mastery or they don't.
        Less drive and more unearthly levels of obsession.

        With some amount of ability someone can build competency even to high levels. But I don't thin obsession with mastery of something can be learned. Or efforts into in any conscious way.

        But people do need to get into the top earners in their field to build wealth and if they are obsessed with frugality so they save and invest a large chunk of their income it a short antic time before working is a choice
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        • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post


          With some amount of ability someone can build competency even to high levels. But I don't thin obsession with mastery of something can be learned. Or efforts into in any conscious way.
          I only really know about selling, and to a lesser degree marketing.

          Mastery requires obsession. You cannot teach obsession. You cannot develop obsession. Obsession is an internal drive. Like an addiction. It occurs with or without your permission.

          If you want to be a master of selling (and I'm assuming of most skills), it takes a decade or more of near constant study and effort. Long after boredom would normally stop progress. Long after you are competent and making a good living.

          When salespeople tell me "I want to be really good". I ask them how many sales books they read this week. Occasionally, I'll hear "I read sales books and listen to recordings when I have time". But nearly always, the idea of studying what you do for a living never occurs to them.

          I see this with advertising reps. The thought of actually reading a book about how to advertise has never occurred to any ad rep I have ever talked to. Learning more about the profession you are in has never occurred to any rep that sells to me, in any field. Never.

          If they aren't making a great living, they blame the economy, the weather, politics, luck, the competition...anything but the fact that they are barely competent at all.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            Mastery requires obsession. You cannot teach obsession. You cannot develop obsession. Obsession is an internal drive.
            Some good comments, and they are appreciated. These threads can often hold very interesting and deep discussions on a given subject.

            I would like to make a couple of points, first, about Mastery. It is NOT required to make money online. We need look no further than the rise of social media (the precursor to rise of the monkeys??)...and the so-called INFLUENCER to see that mastery or even intelligence is not required to gain a following...

            A few dance moves, some make-up, some attention attraction and BOOM, one has followers and that is all that is needed.

            For those of us NOT involved in social media that way, to become "someone" (fame?) then we have many other choices.

            And mastery is seldom required to extract some moolah from someone's pockets.

            However, FOCUS is a requirement. Especially for Warriors who have not yet arrived at their set goals, financial or otherwise.

            You must exchange value, in lieu of being "someone" worth following, and your knowledge doesn't need be at a Master's level, in fact, just a little bit ahead of the person who you may be teaching.

            Many a grade school teacher only stays a lesson or two ahead of the students in the classroom, but their AUTHORITY comes from location, and force (yea, hard to think kids are forced to go to school, but they are{if not homeschooled})

            You don't need to know everything, but what you offer should be actionable or have value to those who would buy from you.

            Making Money 101 is a simple transaction, YOU are selling, I am buying, let's make a deal.

            One thing here at WF is we see a lot of complication and layers added to that simple way of making money.

            LEVERAGE is needed to go from the 101 to the higher levels, where YOU the Warrior may not be a factor, or where the product has demand and you simply fill that demand.

            So, we start from a very simple idea, what are you selling?

            What is the demand for it? Where? How do you get your sales message in front of the starving crowd? This is the basic premise.

            The higher levels are used once your plane gets off the ground, but you can't stay on the tarmac forever, you got to kick out the chocks and get going down the runway.

            GordonJ
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            • Profile picture of the author DABK
              Mastery takes 10,000 hours, I read. And mastery is often nice to have. But you do not need it in most things.


              I do not remember the guys name, but there is a guy on the webs who's got a video where he argues that, to produce significant results in any aspect of your life, you need 20 hours, because you do not need mastery. You need to get going. Once you're going, you can add more hours, if you see fit, based on what you've learned and want at the time.


              20 hours works in many things. Some will need 30 or 50. But he's right, you do not need to be a master to do things well enough that you benefit.


              Marketing including. You do not have to be a master at FaceBook ads to make money with FaceBook ads. You just don't need to suck so much that you don't make any profit.


              Obviously, the more the profit per dollar spent, the better off you are.


              But if you get anything, you can leverage that into a lot of money, even if it's a penny, by just doing more (or a lot more) of it.


              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              Some good comments, and they are appreciated. These threads can often hold very interesting and deep discussions on a given subject.

              I would like to make a couple of points, first, about Mastery. It is NOT required to make money online. We need look no further than the rise of social media (the precursor to rise of the monkeys??)...and the so-called INFLUENCER to see that mastery or even intelligence is not required to gain a following...

              A few dance moves, some make-up, some attention attraction and BOOM, one has followers and that is all that is needed.

              For those of us NOT involved in social media that way, to become "someone" (fame?) then we have many other choices.

              And mastery is seldom required to extract some moolah from someone's pockets.

              However, FOCUS is a requirement. Especially for Warriors who have not yet arrived at their set goals, financial or otherwise.

              You must exchange value, in lieu of being "someone" worth following, and your knowledge doesn't need be at a Master's level, in fact, just a little bit ahead of the person who you may be teaching.

              Many a grade school teacher only stays a lesson or two ahead of the students in the classroom, but their AUTHORITY comes from location, and force (yea, hard to think kids are forced to go to school, but they are{if not homeschooled})

              You don't need to know everything, but what you offer should be actionable or have value to those who would buy from you.

              Making Money 101 is a simple transaction, YOU are selling, I am buying, let's make a deal.

              One thing here at WF is we see a lot of complication and layers added to that simple way of making money.

              LEVERAGE is needed to go from the 101 to the higher levels, where YOU the Warrior may not be a factor, or where the product has demand and you simply fill that demand.

              So, we start from a very simple idea, what are you selling?

              What is the demand for it? Where? How do you get your sales message in front of the starving crowd? This is the basic premise.

              The higher levels are used once your plane gets off the ground, but you can't stay on the tarmac forever, you got to kick out the chocks and get going down the runway.

              GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                Mastery takes 10,000 hours, I read. And mastery is often nice to have. But you do not need it in most things.


                But if you get anything, you can leverage that into a lot of money, even if it's a penny, by just doing more (or a lot more) of it.
                I understand what both you and Gordon said. Just like the employee mindset and paycheck to paycheck are used by many marketers in the mmo community as insults.

                It also seems that the general advice is nothing short of mastery is acceptable..

                At this point in time good advice to noobs to IM .Would be starting getting google certificates. Then try making some money with them.

                Apparently there is something in that that will improve anyone's attempt to earn money online.

                Where is someone now in their ability and their income needs . What do they need to do to make the money to provide the income they need. If that is what a vast majority of people end up doing anyway.
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              • Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                Mastery takes 10,000 hours, I read. And mastery is often nice to have. But you do not need it in most things.
                I agree with that almost completely.

                I would want my heart surgeon to have a mastery of his craft, but other than that, it's not necessary.

                In fact, it can be argued that mastery (meaning you are on par with the best in the world) offers a law of diminishing returns.

                I was being interviewed by a minor guru, and he asked me about my 40 years in selling.

                I told him that after several years, the rate of improvement decreases, and the difference between 10 years of intense learning...and 40 years of intense learning....was a performance improvement of maybe 20%. And I was competent after about 2 years of real study and practice.

                And most activities require only a basic competence to do the same job as an expert.

                I can relay my experience in learning how to advertise locally.
                It took me two years of daily study...looking at magazine ads that were repeating. And trying to figure out why some ads worked, and some didn't. I read maybe 12 classic books on advertising. I advertised my store at least once a week in a display ad, both by direct mail and in the local newspaper.

                It took me two years, before my ads consistently made a profit.

                But advertising is a very complex area.
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              • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
                Originally Posted by DABK View Post


                I do not remember the guys name, but there is a guy on the webs who's got a video where he argues that, to produce significant results in any aspect of your life, you need 20 hours, because you do not need mastery.
                Source: https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=5MgBikgcWnY&vl=en

                He wrote a book too. Pretty good. He argues for competency. Not mastery.

                P.S. Broke the link on purpose. It outputted some weird shit lol.
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                • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                  Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

                  Source: https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=5MgBikgcWnY&vl=en

                  He wrote a book too. Pretty good. He argues for competency. Not mastery.

                  P.S. Broke the link on purpose. It outputted some weird shit lol.
                  Josh Kaufman and THE FIRST 20 HOURS. Good book.

                  Over the years, I've had scores of people tell me they had 20 hours a week to work on their Internet or off line business marketing or money making gigs. FEW did.

                  I found the real avg to be about 12 hours a week, which is 2 a day for six days. Do this for ONE month (48 hours) and almost every Warrior could build a 50 to 100 dollar a day business in their first month.

                  IF, their time was focused. It rarely is.

                  As for learning quickly, Josh Kaufman has some good techniques, but one thing missing his lack of understanding the STICKING points There are maybe 5 of them, but that's just me.

                  First one is right up front, and this has happened to me several times. I go to Youtube to watch a video on something I want to learn and as often as not, in the first few minutes, they show something my version of the software doesn't have, or I have the wrong tools to start. And frustration, when they say to hit the X button, and you don't have an X button on your thingy, I want to go all postal.

                  So first thing, make sure you are on the same page as the instructor. If you have a C key harmonica and he is teaching jazz riffs in G ... best to get your tools and versions lined up to avoid this frustration.

                  Secondly, work in time frames which you normally do, I like 90 minutes, 2 hours and I lose attention and focus, and start where you left off with a little review of the previous lesson.

                  Take your own kind of notes, Kaufman refers to scaffolding, research first, but don't count that as the 20 hours, make sure you WANT to learn and WHY you are.

                  For a Warrior to spend 20 hours learning Canva for example and all he wants to do is audible, it might be a good skill to have for tomorrow, but it doesn't fit with the goal of today, does it?

                  Apply as you go along. There are so many FREE places and web sites even for a Warrior to practice at, to be able to post audio, video, or artwork, graphics or pictures, spend the time DOING what you want to do.

                  Whether you spend 20 hours or 10,000 hours depends on what your goals are, and for most Warriors, I believe, making money is the basic thought and the quicker the better too. But I could be wrong.

                  I also might dispute the whole 10k mastery top % too. I've know dozens of professional golfers, most have the hours in, few have won a professional tournament, let alone a major. Experts? Yes. Masters of the skill. Yes. Best in the world, well top 2% for sure but not Tiger, Jack or even Arnie are they?

                  GordonJ

                  PS. True 20 hours a week FOCUSED on learning how to make money online should easily get a Warrior started her first month doing it.
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                  • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                    I also might dispute the whole 10k mastery top % too. I've know dozens of professional golfers, most have the hours in, few have won a professional tournament, let alone a major. Experts? Yes. Masters of the skill. Yes. Best in the world, well top 2% for sure but not Tiger, Jack or even Arnie are they?
                    I'm, glad you brought that up.

                    Having the hours and effort in, doesn't guarantee greatness. The hours and effort are just part of what's required. Intelligence and aptitude are also needed. The effort will give you extreme competence....but like I said before, you can be competent way before 10,000 hours.

                    And not all skills take the same training, the same effort, the same natural skill.

                    For example, I've never played golf in my life. If I dedicated 10,000 hours to practicing golf, I may end up being barely as good as a casual player. Maybe not even that.
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by DABK View Post


                20 hours works in many things. Some will need 30 or 50. But he's right, you do not need to be a master to do things well enough that you benefit.
                Here is my 20 hour quick start guide to the WF. Feel free to add your own or advise Warriors on best practices.

                A new Warrior, just arrived, here is my best 20 hour suggestions.

                First hour, read the rules. Know what you can and can't do, don't get banned or deleted first thing, this could be one of the most valuable places you ever visit, so first hour, read the rules and go through the forums.

                After reading and understanding the rules of the forum, take a look and list the top 3 sub forums which attract your attention. You probably come here with some idea of wanting to make money with Internet Marketing but don't know how, or don't know which way you might want to do it.

                What appeals to you first thing?

                Second hour, go through the Warrior Special Offers, just to get a feel for the many different types of things Warriors are doing to make their moolah online, I don't suggest BUYING just yet, just get familiar with what is being OFFERED.

                Third hour. Find the voices which resonate with you. In all the subforums, you will find expertise, often with very different advice and experience. Choose the PEOPLE you want to keep an eye on and learn from. Once you do this, the next couple of hours will be spent reading through the archives with a purpose, maybe to follow said person or a thread which might interest you.

                In the first 5 hours, you should have an inkling of what might suit you, which way of making money online attracts you first thing. Those with no money or little to invest, usually go with affiliate marketing or something like that. Desperate people should spend a couple of hours reading through those threads...about desperate people.

                After your first 5 hours of looking over the WF, getting some ideas, learning about the various Warriors and their offers and expertise...

                The next few hours are about YOU. I call it ASSESSMENT.

                I make an assumption, which may not suit you, but I assume new people coming to the Warrior Forum are interested in learning how to make money with Internet Marketing. If you have a different reason for being here, then you decide how to spend your time, fair enough?

                What skills, education, knowledge or experiences do you bring with you? What, if anything, are you good at? How do you think that will help you with your Internet Marketing (IM)?


                After 10 hours of assessment, perusal, reading, studying, and getting to know the WF and who's who...

                Decide to DO something. Maybe the doing is asking questions, participating, or actually making a web site, or starting a blog, it really doesn't matter this early, but you don't want to become one of those Warriors who spends years reading and never gets around to doing, do you? I think not.

                Making money online is about OFFERS, or selling something to someone for an exchange of value.

                After 10 to 12 hours, you should be ready to begin that part of it. SELL SOMETHING.

                And most might choose an affiliate offer, easy to get into, easy to start, and by having something to sell, by selecting an offer...

                you will very rapidly encounter all the problems you will face with your online efforts.

                The biggest problems are the WHO is going to buy what you offer? WHERE do you find them? WHAT do you say or show to them to make them want what you have? HOW do you take their money? HOW do they get what they pay for?

                Those are not only basic IM problems, they are the jist of making IM profits. The earlier you find out some of the answers to those questions, the faster your progress will be.

                I contend that if you FOCUS on those 20 hours, complete an honest self appraisal and get started, you will have begun to build a solid foundation which you could profit from for years to come as many of us Warriors have done.

                This is my first 20 hours of WF for beginners (or those starting over even).

                What are yours?

                GordonJ
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  • Achievement is mebbe eternal.

    Sum wishful fling into anyplace 'long the impossible-improble axis that credits you with sum kinda plus on your time an' effort.

    Course, to be a supah speshl person, any persnl advantage you gain don't gotta mean ZILLIONS now feedin' offa the primordial slime c/o your personal genius.

    As it turns out, if'n they happen alongside durin' the manifestation of your own miraculature, the only ones gonna suffah are the lame shitbrains outside of the loop.

    Thankfully, the ignorant ain't evah gonna suffah extra bcs this.

    But you would wanna ask srs questions of The Perfectly Informed, who then bunk out on a (prolly "bettah informed tvm") kinda whim.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Claude

    After all the effort many of these people went through to get a degree. They are stuck paying off their student debt in a job that has nothing to do with what they studied in college.

    I am over generalizing .the people who study how to be better sales people usually move on to sales training or starting their own business. I have run into several sales people who claimed they where good. And a common thread is their employers stealing commissions.

    But then I have run into very skilled crafts people who had a refined sales/ marketing message to sell the much higher price they are selling their thing for

    As far as obsession goes I know what triggers my obsessive nature I just have not figured out the business I can build around it yet .so I am gradually learning skills around what I am going to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Claude if you where still practicing martial arts regularly you would be able to transfer the physical conditioning a self control and be above average soon after starting golf.

    My lower back is f'd I am generally not in pain but I was shopping today and stressed my bag moving to fast to pick a couple packages of bagels from the bottom rack. So I am not about to walk a golf course and swing a club I would end up throwing out my back.

    Anyway that whole idea of transferring skills developed in one area into another needing similar skills. Gets lost in the mastery discussion.

    Usually only people with way above average iq and aptitude can achieve mastery. In the120 to just over 130 you can simulate mastery build high levels of proficiency in multiple supporting skill sets
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Claude if you where still practicing martial arts regularly you would be able to transfer the physical conditioning a self control and be above average soon after starting golf.

      Actually, I started daily training again about a year ago. But I'm not naturally athletic, and I'm uncoordinated.


      The distancing, angle of swing...all of it would be alien to me. Plus, at 66, my ability to develop new physical coordination skills is severely hampered.

      I can't read my own writing now. I have very little feeling in my fingers now (from decades of Kung Fu practice). And my joints are in constant pain. All of which I work through, but golfing or tennis aren't in my future. On the plus side, I can hit very very hard. Something that will come in handy, during the coming zombie apocalypse.

      (Years ago, a guy came to the forum and tried to convince us we were in the middle of a real zombie apocalypse. He kept getting really mad, because we weren't going along with it.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    If you wanted to play golf. You would even with the conditions you list. I played in my early twenties and had a problem with my vision and couldn't track a golf ball after I hit it. So I lost a big pleasure of the game.

    You would figure out how to play at a basic level if you got into selling golf equipment.
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      If you wanted to play golf. You would even with the conditions you list. I played in my early twenties and had a problem with my vision and couldn't track a golf ball after I hit it. So I lost a big pleasure of the game.

      You would figure out how to play at a basic level if you got into selling golf equipment.
      If I got into selling golf equipment, I'd get good enough to always lose convincingly.
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      "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        If I got into selling golf equipment, I'd get good enough to always lose convincingly.
        You would not need to lose . All you need to do is show how the gear you sell and use makes you a better golfer than you would be without the gear.

        But Gordon sells expensive golf equipment he can better explain what works on that front.

        If when I get into something I ignore advice from average players or businesses and look for those doing better than everyone else. Or those selling to the wealthiest clients. If I don't believe I can learn to do what they do . I look for a different thing.
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  • I haven't read much books lately, but through one of my college courses, I realized having money isn't everything. What's valuable to me are the tools used to create passive (or aggressive) income.

    For almost a year, I kept redoing my goals and strategic ideas to fit everyone's expectations perfectly. However, my boyfriend made it clear that less is more. Ever since then, I used that concept. Now, I'm pushing beyond my own boundaries to perfect my craft and enhance my passion.

    Ha, I'm 25 and I know how to balance a check book and write a check! My dad made sure I learned that.

    Reading these comments is speaking to me on a different level. I'm increasing my passion for networking and marketing. I love writing and illustration, but when I visit my stats page or pay attention to different avenues when increasing traffic, I feel... Idk how to put it, I guess hungrier and different. I want to know more behind the numbers and the time people take reading or admiring my craft. My boyfriend is the same way, except he's not as hands on as I am, unless he occasionally check his progress.

    He's a musician, and I get aggressively passionate when he opens up about which platform streams the most, or how much time he needs to dedicate towards his skills to earn consistent passive income.

    Sorry for sounding like a newbie. I'm amazed with what I'm reading and how much knowledge y'all hold and willing to share.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicenet
    I have gained so much from this thresd. Thanks a lot.


    In my younger years I read 'Think and Grow Rich' by Napoleon Hill and 'Men who made America great.'



    It helped me over the years.
    I believe we become what we think. If what's inside does not change positively. then the outside is gabbage.
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Banned
      Originally Posted by nicenet View Post

      I have gained so much from this thresd. Thanks a lot.


      In my younger years I read 'Think and Grow Rich' by Napoleon Hill and 'Men who made America great.'



      It helped me over the years.
      I believe we become what we think. If what's inside does not change positively. then the outside is gabbage.

      "NiceNet" I love optimism.
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      MAKE MONEY DOING WHAT YOU ARE ALREADY DOING...

      SOCIAL MEDIA MONETIZATION ON STEROIDS

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  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    wealth dynamics by roger hamilton should do good basics n foundation for this
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by visimedia View Post

      wealth dynamics by roger hamilton should do good basics n foundation for this
      Roger Hamilton has built a beautiful cult. Now I know some have a problem with that word, and that is on them...so, if one prefers: a CLUB. An association of people who believe in the same thing, kindred souls.

      Anyhow, if one were to study the Roger Hamilton method...what he did...which is genius in itself

      is...

      To incorporate OLD ideas, in his case the I-Ching and Carl Jung into a NEW concept. With a new vocabulary and pitch it to market. It worked like gang busters.

      Self assessment is a key, one which I preach here, and there are dozens if not scores of ways to find out who you are, like the Myers-Briggs tests used for decades in social services, and for those of Eastern followings, the I-Ching, and Western Runes to Tarot...people have always had a deep need to understand who they are.

      Roger Hamilton offers a modern solution with his Wealth Dynamics Profile, which by the way is a proven way used by many cults and religions as a gateway to their thinking...some may call it an audit, or a personality profile, or whatever.

      But it taps into our deeper wants for understanding. So anyhow, what one does if they would want to follow this MODEL, and it is indeed brilliant and proven over and over again is to set up a doorway, some might argue a top of funnel...then wrap a complete course of ongoing study, in the name of self-improvement, around it and market the snot out of it.

      Any Warrior who wants to use this as a model, need only go back 3 decades, go over the best seller lists, top products being sold back then, a generation and a half ago, and bring their fresh to the idea and BAM, you could have everything you want.

      Thanks for bringing him up, it is a brilliant way to build a business.

      GordonJ
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Any Warrior who wants to use this as a model, need only go back 3 decades, go over the best seller lists, top products being sold back then, a generation and a half ago, and bring their fresh to the idea and BAM, you could have everything you want.

        GordonJ
        I've done that with self improvement books and sales books.

        I'll read a book that offers some sort of insight, positioned as new and revolutionary, and then go back a decade or so and read a book that says the same thing...then go back a decade and see the same thing.

        Tony Robbins was a preview speaker for Jim Rohn. And he just studied NLP, called it something else, changed the labels, and off he went.

        Think And Grow Rich and The Laws Of Success are a rewriting of a few books written by Orison Swett Marden.

        I suspect that if we actually knew the origin of belief systems we hold so dear, we would be shocked and disappointed.

        There are tons of books written around 1880-1920 on self improvement that are virtual mirrors of what we get today from our esteemed self improvement gurus. I know because I've bought them and read them.


        Never meet your heroes.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Interesting point Claude:

          However I think there's a difference between an Author being influenced by other teachings than ― like you suggested ― a "rewriting" of other books. (For the record I'm sure that does happen sometimes however certainly not all the time.)

          For example, is all the information and advice (that I'm sure is stellar) in your One Call Closing book 100% all your own ideas/concepts/etc? Or were you influenced by other teachings?

          By the way, I would love to meet my Heroes. : ) Even if I was disappointed in some way ― that would never take away everything I have learned from them.
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          • Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

            For example, is all the information and advice (that I'm sure is stellar) in your One Call Closing book 100% all your own ideas/concepts/etc? Or were you influenced by other teachings?

            That's a fair question. Here is the answer.

            Nothing is original. Everything we know was learned somewhere. Everything I wrote in my book was tested by me, and was something I used in the field...usually thousands of times.

            After 45 years of selling, it all becomes a blur of were I learned it. I assume some of it was discovered by me...on my own. But again, everything has to be learned somewhere. Some of what I wrote was learned in the field, some was originally learned from other top salespeople. I'm sure some of it was learned directly from reading 2,000 books on selling

            The difference is, I didn't take someone else's book, retitle it, change some of the terms used, and pass it off as my own discovery.

            Even the guys that wrote the self help books in 1880, didn't discover everything on their own....they read earlier works. I just haven't read the books on self development written before 1880.

            I used the example of Napoleon Hill's book Think And Grow Rich.

            If you read any of the books written 30-40 years before that, by Orison Swett Marden, you'll see that the content is nearly identical.

            The problem comes when an author or Guru claims that he discovered 'The Secret' to whatever...when really, he discovered it by reading a few books, and deciding to claim the discovery as his own.

            By the way, the story Hill wrote about him interviewing Andrew Carnegie, and Carnegie giving him "The secret", and telling him to interview other millionaires....was invented by Hill after Carnegie died. And the interviews he talks about in his book, that he had with famous successful people of the time, were never talked about, until these people were dead. The only thing Hill added...was his invented story of how the book came about. And truth be told, it was a good story, and it sold books.

            It's a common activity of some gurus to fabricate stories about their interaction with famous people, after that person has died.

            OK< maybe meeting your heroes isn't that bad. But never get to know them. You'll always be disappointed, because the fantasy we have of who they are is never real.

            I am not friends with any celebrities. But I know dozens of speakers and Gurus. I get to know them over long weekends at events. The person you see on stage is not who they are. This includes when you see me.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Thanks the reply Claude.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              That's a fair question. Here is the answer.

              Nothing is original. Everything we know was learned somewhere. Everything I wrote in my book was tested by me, and was something I used in the field...usually thousands of times.
              Good point. : ) "There's nothing new under the Sun" as they say. Creativity happens (sometimes) when People take certain "elements"/sources and combine them in new ways and combinations. As for your tenacity/determination as a Salesman, well I think it's just great.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Im sure some of it was learned directly from reading 2,000 books on selling
              Wow -- massive respect for that. : )

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              The difference is, I didn't take someone else's book, retitle it, change some of the terms used, and pass it off as my own discovery.
              Sure. I agree: that's definitely not a good thing. However most of the "New Thought" books I have read aren't just a copy/rewrite of other material. I think your "Think And Rich" example -- if it's even accurate -- is the exception and not the rule.

              I appreciate the book recommendation ... Do you know the title of the Orison Swett Marden book because I would be interested in reading it. TIA.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              The problem comes when an author or Guru claims that he discovered 'The Secret' to whatever...when really, he discovered it by reading a few books, and deciding to claim the discovery as his own.
              Again, I agree: That's not good practice.

              The Problem is we will (probably) never know if that's the case with TAGR. Just because someone put it online doesn't mean it's accurate. (Lol) ... However, if you could provide the Website/etc. with the claim I would like to see it.
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              • Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post


                I appreciate the book recommendation ... Do you know the title of the Orison Swett Marden book because I would be interested in reading it. TIA.
                There are lots of books written by Marden. Here's a link to a free Kindle copy of An iron Will. . I mean no disrespect, but the books I have from Marden are over 100 years old, and cost me hundreds of dollars each. Maybe there are PDFs of some of them somewhere.

                https://amzn.to/2ZDFJZF

                If you've read Think And Grow Rich, and read An Iron Will, you'll see that it's nearly the same thing.

                The thing that sets Hill apart from the other authors of these books is his story about him and Carnegie (and other noted millionaires).

                Just read the Wikipedia page on Napoleon Hill.
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                • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Maybe there are PDFs of some of them somewhere.
                  https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/1515
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  If you've read Think And Grow Rich, and read An Iron Will, you'll see that it's nearly the same thing.
                  Actually I have read both "Think And Grow Rich" and "An Iron Will" (one of my favourites) ... And they are respectfully completely different and both originall books of success. And that's OK ― you keep your beliefs and I'll keep mine.

                  Peace. : )
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                  • Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    Actually I have read both "Think And Grow Rich" and "An Iron Will" (one of my favourites) ... And they are respectfully completely different and both originall books of success. And that's OK ― you keep your beliefs and I'll keep mine.

                    Peace. : )
                    i want to apologize.

                    It's been several years since I bought and then read my books by Orison Swett Marden. Since these books are so old, I read them once and then put them away.

                    I just remembered the title An Iron Will.
                    And I remember thinking that his writings were nearly the same as Hills, although not arranged the same.

                    After years, the memory gets muddled a little..

                    And I hate to admit, I'm not eager to reread a dozen books I no longer have interest in.

                    So if you'll forgive me for not matching my books correctly, I'll appreciate it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                      No worries Claude: No need to apologize. Thanks for the discssion.
                      : )
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Thanks the reply Claude.


                The Problem is we will (probably) never know if that's the case with TAGR. Just because someone put it online doesn't mean it's accurate. (Lol) ... However, if you could provide the Website/etc. with the claim I would like to see it.
                I don't think it really matters at this point their are tens of millions of millionaires around the world at this point and enough research on how wealth is built from scratch. And the main skill set to build to build wealth. Which is engineering not sales.

                I believe bill gates Jeff bezos and Musk have degrees in some type of engineering.

                Fields the depend on developing or following systems to produce repeated results
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Arguments, or rather "discussions" aside about this or that book and whether or not it is a derivative, original, or boat load of plagiarism, here are some ways a Warrior can prosper from the works of the long ago departed.

                Two people, one of whom just very recently retired (Tony Mase) have/had websites dedicated to the works of some Old Masters. You can amazon Tony Mase and see what derivatives he has to offer. He built a great website around Wallace Wattles.

                The other guy, of Kallisti Publishing is Anthony, who offers a wide variety of works to attainers, and he specializes in the works of Charles F. Haanel. Both Haanel and Wattles, along with Marden, who's PUSHING TO THE FRONT was the book which Hill most likely took his notes from, were new thought practitioners.

                And we come to the SO WHAT? part of my post.

                The idea is that any Warrior here, could go back, and using Project Gutenberg to cull from could create a derivative work which she could build a solid business around.

                Now, I don't agree to the idea "nothing new under the sun"...there is a lot new, especially in our understanding today of neuroscience which these old Masters knew not of. But that doesn't matter either.

                If a Warrior is looking for a relatively quick and easy way to create a product, they could have something ready to go in a few hours, just by using the insights and ideas of dead people of 100 years ago.

                The "funnel", and I use that lightly, could look like...a simple HOTSHEET, a short 4 page report, a more detailed report, maybe a book, course or video all of which could be put together in a week's time.

                But then there is the finding the customer part of it all.

                There has always been and will be a STARVING crowd when it comes to self-improvement and one doesn't have to reinvent the wheel before cashing in.

                GordonJ






                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Thanks the reply Claude.

                Good point. : ) "There's nothing new under the Sun" as they say. Creativity happens (sometimes) when People take certain "elements"/sources and combine them in new ways and combinations. As for your tenacity/determination as a Salesman, well I think it's just great.
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                • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  If a Warrior is looking for a relatively quick and easy way to create a product, they could have something ready to go in a few hours, just by using the insights and ideas of dead people of 100 years ago.

                  The "funnel", and I use that lightly, could look like...a simple HOTSHEET, a short 4 page report, a more detailed report, maybe a book, course or video all of which could be put together in a week's time.

                  But then there is the finding the customer part of it all.

                  There has always been and will be a STARVING crowd when it comes to self-improvement and one doesn't have to reinvent the wheel before cashing in.

                  GordonJ
                  And if you don't want to rewrite the content, so you can take credit for discovering the Secret.......

                  These books are all in the public Domain, and can be reproduced for free, without seeking permission.

                  And a book chapter can be a report, a book can be a course.

                  Marketer Matt Furey is known for finding old bodybuilding courses from the late 1800s and early 1900ss, that are in the pubic domain...and just selling them as is...maybe with a short introduction.
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                  "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Thanks for the post Gordon.

                  Founder of WF Allen Says had a Website selling NewThought /LOA books (including "The Master Key System") however that was back when most People didn't know they were in the Public Domain. Anyways, thanks to you and Claude for the example that a resourceful Person/Marketer can take all this free content and do something great with it.
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                  "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    More ideas.

                    I was thinking, and thought I would share. Making Money. When I started the thread I was hopeful it would generate some good discussion and it has.

                    Now, step into my time machine (aka Project Gutenberg)...when I went there I typed in making money,

                    seemed like the thing to do. The books were sorted by popularity. I selected the #2 and #4 books, let us look at the first one: ONE THOUSAND WAYS TO MAKE MONEY by Page Fox.

                    Here is a link to that book:

                    https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub...06-images.html

                    Spend a few minutes quickly browsing through the thing like I did. Very early on, in Chapter V (that is 5) the list of 148 work from home ideas caught my eye.

                    All told, I spent maybe an hour going through this one book, published in 1900, 121 years ago, and from my notes I have over 25 ideas for potential information products which could be easily and quickly created.
                    #148 is POP CORN. We have two pop corn stores in our city, one block from each other...and I talked with a lady who is gearing up to sell popcorn balls at a local holiday event and she is projecting a thousand dollar day at her little "fair".

                    Of course some of it is laughable, and outdated. But when you do these exercises, you can train yourself to spear out the nuggets and polish them up.

                    #659 is 659. Fly-Killer.--There is needed some powerful chemical that will destroy flies the moment they enter{198} the house, and yet be harmless to man. He will become richer than Cr"sus who shall give us the much needed boon.

                    Sixty years later a guy named Joe Cossman sold millions of dollars of FLY CAKES. Today, with all the flies gone, eliminated, there is not a need for such things, eh?

                    As you race through the 1000 ways, make notes, QUICKLY, without thought and at the end, see what caught your eye...which of the ideas did you give pause to, an extra thought? There might be a clue you could pursue.

                    How about the idea itself? A book of money making ideas? The second book I referred to was published in 1919.

                    Then after WWII, when mail order boomed, George Haylings sold a book of business ideas...and it has been a staple for over a century.

                    My partner, Dien Rice, publishes a newsletter of business ideas.

                    This may fall under the "nothing new under the sun".

                    OK. So there are TWO sources of books. What would I do? First, make sure the subject matter from my lists of IDEAS WHICH INTERESTED ME, has relevance today...who is selling this sort of information? Where? How?

                    What expertise or experience do I have with those 1000 ideas?

                    In less than 2 hours, I have identified potential products. Just for the sake of this example, and because of a recent Warrior forum post, let's say I will take the first topic, which he calls GETTING a PLACE (the Fox book) or a JOB.

                    Yes, even in 2021 some people, not most of us of course, but still there is a demand for people wanting to find a J O B. Yikes.

                    I had a resume business. Made over $1,000.00 a day by offering a 90 day money back guarantee that I could find their ideal job.

                    So, if I were to start a resume business today, I might first gather some FREE resources as we are doing here. I might get the US Gov't publication available here

                    https://pueblo.gpo.gov/Publications/...php?PubID=1207

                    And combine that with any FREE information at the many, many free resume building sites. My funnel might be:

                    FREE report on current HOT job markets.
                    Within report bring up POSSIBILITIES for creating a business or make your own job.
                    I could then offer a LOW cost assessment of skills and experiences, get some feedback and information and then offer a higher priced CUSTOM made resume, CV, or Resuletter or advise on other possibilities.

                    See, all this from just spending a little time skimming a 121 year old outdated book.

                    So, any Warrior can use these books as IDEA STIMULATORS, and without spending much time and NO money, could have some areas of interest to explore.

                    Anyhow, just wanted to share my rabbit hole of Project Gutenberg, it was a good trip for me Alice.

                    GordonJ

                    P.S. Contrast the two books, see what 20 years difference there is. Between 1900 and 1919, amazing technology emerged; autos, radio, airplanes. In the last 20 years of the Warrior Forum, we have also seen amazing tech, haven't we. Between the two books, with their combined hundreds of ideas, we should be able to mine some gold.

                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    Thanks for the post Gordon.

                    Founder of WF Allen Says had a Website selling NewThought /LOA books (including "The Master Key System") however that was back when most People didn't know they were in the Public Domain. Anyways, thanks to you and Claude for the example that a resourceful Person/Marketer can take all this free content and do something great with it.
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            • Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


              The difference is, I didn't take someone else's book, retitle it, change some of the terms used, and pass it off as my own discovery.

              2nd user wisdom masqueradin' as nouveau smarts is evrywhere.
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                2nd user wisdom masqueradin' as nouveau smarts is evrywhere.
                Succinct as always PrincessB,

                Even 10th USER wisdom presented with a twist, can be valuable.

                Mostly, I go back to Plato, Aristotle and what they lack, Shakespeare suffices. Not much new there. But great stuff.

                And Kilgore is right about the Execution of an idea, and he says:

                For me the books that have been most helpful are the books that have helped me to think about business in new ways:

                To THINK about business in new ways, or to paraphrase, to think about IDEAS in new ways. Then

                To make a PLAN OF ACTION (POA)...

                Then...EXECUTE THE POA

                Adjust, and continue.

                How does one make a plan and execute it?, and since this is the Warrior Forum, I try to stay with the general idea of Warriors come here looking for money making ideas/solutions via Internet Marketing, albeit, we offer a lot for offliners too.

                There are several ways to go about it, but my opinion, and please feel free to offer up your own, the majority of newbies start the wrong way, with a product...and as often as not, it is affiliate marketing. That works, but it takes time and effort, TIME and effort.

                I believe starting with a PROSPECT first, a known buyer who frequently buys and has recently purchased is the best starting square for a new venture, even with an old idea.

                THE WHO.

                Oh Tommy, where art thou?

                The who as in who is going to give you their money for what you are offering? I think this is a good starting point.

                And it is one which gets some pretty nifty gloss overs...to tell people to

                find a starving market...

                Or find a problem. That sort of plabumatic advice...without any details...is often one of the most regurgitated sayings here at the WF

                Best WHO to find is in the mirror. You don't have to look very far or hard to find someone with a problem, a challenge, a situation. So self assessment comes in handy.

                A new marketer will make a huge mistake pursuing something she is not suited for...if an introvert, for example, a career of public speaking (although many an introvert have carved out brilliant careers as speakers)...

                And this is when we hear about PASSION, or following one's passion, an idea I subscribe to when not making money a priority. Sure, do what you love. I prefer to have the money to do what I love to do which is not all about making money. IM gurus think otherwise.

                A good POA begins at the END. Where does it go? What is the result of all the effort? What are the obstacles between here and there? A good POA will have examined these things.

                Then what does the EXECUTION look like? One of my fav books to read to my kids was DRUMMER HOFF by the Emberleys.

                A story of command, and execution. At the end, after General Border gave the order, all the way down to chain...until low man on the totem pole, the drummer, had the responsibility of firing the cannon off.

                What happens to many a Warrior, they get stuck listening to the higher authorities, the Generals, and by the time they get around to lighting the fuse, TIME and MONEY have been wasted.

                One thing about PLANS is...they are never perfect, but one thing about ADJUSTMENT as you DO, it takes you closer to the goal.

                So, sure, get ideas...even 100 year old ideas will do.

                Think of a plan, after you have a WHO, and ask HOW you will intersect with that WHO and WHAT and HOW you will say to them to get the reaction you want? What is the STIMULUS you use to get the RESPONSE you want.

                Then DO, asap, TODAY better than tomorrow, DO...then adjust and tweak and this is one way one can take any idea, new or old, and turn it into some modern cashola they can bank on.

                Your thoughts?

                GordonJ
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                • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  How does one make a plan and execute it?,

                  Funny, I am more or less at this point. There really isn't a how-to guide to what I want to do anywhere so I had to craft my own plan.Yet I often take the wrong action, but I almost never seem to really run out of things to do.


                  In my experience, there aren't POA or books, it's more like piecing disparate puzzle pieces together with a pattern like 3 step forward, 1 step back.

                  Or perhaps like uncovering those Russian dolls, where a problem will lead to another and another and another. E.g. I might do a few prospective calls, and realize that my offer was way too generic, thus sending me back to the drawing board. Taking action uncovers a problem which uncovers antoher and another...

                  To be quite frank, I suspect most of the "not taking action" has to do with lack of motivation.


                  Suppose you didn't know how to swim and you were thrown in the Mississipi river at night... with people with sticks trying to keep your head under water and actively trying to drown you. You'll start splashing around wildly.You won't care about looking like an idiot. You won't care if what you're doing aligns with the Moon Goddess or the LOA or wtv. In any case, you'll do something.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                    Funny, I am more or less at this point.

                    To be quite frank, I suspect most of the "not taking action" has to do with lack of motivation.

                    What if it has nothing to do with motivation.

                    The majority of people are looking for a way to replace their income. They are not 6 figure earners and have no experience running a business.

                    So for the people who are not entrepreneurs and are fine with making less than 6 figure incomes think about how the messaging can kind of shit on these people. And paint them as failures.

                    A large number of people are doing just that right not refusing to go back to miserable kid that end up not being safe and looking for a way to earn money to replace what they where earning. And not becoming entrepreneurs building businesses that can be sold.

                    So there is a very hungry crowd but the products being sold to them are not what they are really looking for.
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                    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                      Thanks Odahh,

                      You are right on. Most who come here seeking IM how to are NOT Entrepreneurs, and do not have much if any of a business background.

                      And there is a huge culture in IM of being a WINNER. But when we allow others to define what a winner is, or what a LOSER is, and one accepts that, well all sorts of self image problems appear.

                      Sure, many an IM guru uses the bait of financial freedom or tens of thousands of dollars a month coming in and anything short of that makes you a loser, certainly can see that in how many MMO (Make Money Online) info is marketed.

                      But the seeker, even just wanting not to go back to his crummy job, has to accept the responsibility of setting the goal without succumbing to the beating of drum of get rich online easily crowd. There are scores of ways to make money, online and off, so it does fall on the person to pick and choose what they want, and I contend, most don't.

                      Sure they want to replace their job income, if they even have a job...but they don't know what they want in their own life's bigger picture. And the end result often begins with the first step taken, which determines the path.

                      I would argue, there is a hungry crowd BUYING the wrong products because of how they start, but there are tons of both free and useful information available, which may be harder to find when all those shiny sparkly easy to find diamonds of IM are blinding one from setting realistic goals.

                      GordonJ

                      P. S. Turns out, most of those diamonds are cubic zirconium and well, just not worth the thing they are mounted on.


                      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                      What if it has nothing to do with motivation.

                      The majority of people are looking for a way to replace their income. They are not 6 figure earners and have no experience running a business.

                      So for the people who are not entrepreneurs and are fine with making less than 6 figure incomes think about how the messaging can kind of shit on these people. And paint them as failures.

                      A large number of people are doing just that right not refusing to go back to miserable kid that end up not being safe and looking for a way to earn money to replace what they where earning. And not becoming entrepreneurs building businesses that can be sold.

                      So there is a very hungry crowd but the products being sold to them are not what they are really looking for.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    Thanks socialentry,

                    When we watch old movies and see subs fire torpedoes, they go in a straight line and either hit or miss. Post WW II they had GUIDED ones, which zig zaged while pinging the target, and then hit it.

                    Here is a PLAN OF ACTION:

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xtrvglmsn0mi3cj/poa.jpg?dl=0

                    A couple of weeks ago I drove from Akron, OH to New York City, and the route I took was I-76 to I-80, and this is what most IM offers, a route to X number of dollars...see almost any WSO and this is what is offered.

                    So, if all I have is the route, and there is semi overturned and it will cause a several hour delay, if I don't have a MAP, I'm stuck...dead on freeway, at the mercy of others.

                    But if I look on the MAP (the big picture), I may be able to figure out an alternative way to get there, or to get around the blockage. I know that if I just sit there, I'm going to be late and miss my appointments and opportunities. Maybe even just turn around and come home, all that effort for nothing.

                    As we see on my POA, a zig zag from beginning to end, ADJUSTMENTS (or the step back, as in two forward, one back) and recognition of where I am at on the journey.

                    Note the several EXITS, which represent when people quit or give up on their quest.

                    A clearly defined goal, with a MAP and not a ROUTE, is a better plan of action. The reason why so many Warriors spin their wheels for so long is they bought into the route of someone else and find it full of turned over trucks, obstacles and have no idea as to which way to go from there.

                    Motivation plays a part, and this is why we hear so much about fire in the gut, or a burning desire, or a must win attitude...but it comes from the setting of the original goal, and whether that was done realistically or in some fantasy world.

                    GordonJ


                    W
                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                    Funny, I am more or less at this point. There really isn't a how-to guide to what I want to do anywhere so I had to craft my own plan.Yet I often take the wrong action, but I almost never seem to really run out of things to do.


                    In my experience, there aren't POA or books, it's more like piecing disparate puzzle pieces together with a pattern like 3 step forward, 1 step back.

                    Or perhaps like uncovering those Russian dolls, where a problem will lead to another and another and another. E.g. I might do a few prospective calls, and realize that my offer was way too generic, thus sending me back to the drawing board. Taking action uncovers a problem which uncovers antoher and another...

                    To be quite frank, I suspect most of the "not taking action" has to do with lack of motivation.


                    Suppose you didn't know how to swim and you were thrown in the Mississipi river at night... with people with sticks trying to keep your head under water and actively trying to drown you. You'll start splashing around wildly.You won't care about looking like an idiot. You won't care if what you're doing aligns with the Moon Goddess or the LOA or wtv. In any case, you'll do something.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                      Thanks socialentry,

                      When we watch old movies and see subs fire torpedoes, they go in a straight line and either hit or miss. Post WW II they had GUIDED ones, which zig zaged while pinging the target, and then hit it.

                      Here is a PLAN OF ACTION:

                      https://www.dropbox.com/s/xtrvglmsn0mi3cj/poa.jpg?dl=0

                      A couple of weeks ago I drove from Akron, OH to New York City, and the route I took was I-76 to I-80, and this is what most IM offers, a route to X number of dollars...see almost any WSO and this is what is offered.

                      As we see on my POA, a zig zag from beginning to end, ADJUSTMENTS (or the step back, as in two forward, one back) and recognition of where I am at on the journey.

                      GordonJ


                      W
                      I bet you built the skills to drive around the USA in a vehicle 50 years ago. You don't just have a map and a destination. But you have a vehicle that will reliably make the journey. And if after you get you to New York and get your business done. You can drive to the coast of main and get amazing fresh off the boat seafood if you wanted.

                      And if you want to avoid traffic from experience you could choose to make the road trip at night

                      Most people actually have goals but uses great your example they go from Akron to New York City in a way that gets them stuck in the city

                      In effect people are setting goals but basically choosing to lose 100 pounds by flying down to Columbia and doing cocaine and drinking the water to get diarrhea. Yeah they might lose the weight but they are much worse off and might have much bigger problems
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                      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                        This may be your best yet, Columbia water and coke diet. Great.

                        Yes, I drove.
                        And have the skill to do so.

                        But, I could have flown. Taken an Uber or Taxi, gotten a ride at rideshare, taken the train, a bus, or walked or hitchhiked too. Lots of ways to get there, some faster than others.

                        And it begins with the destination. Knowing where I wanted to go first, then decided on the available options which best suited my needs/wants AT THE TIME.

                        I'm not sure I agree with most people have goals. I don't think they do. They have thoughts, sort of cloudy ideas, some wants, but actual goals I am not so sure.

                        Do new Warriors have goals when they first arrive? It seems they have an idea, or got here by some search for making money online, which WF ranks high on most search engines for. And a couple of days later, they have some ideas, but not many set goals and fewer still have plans of action.

                        GordonJ

                        What if I want to gain 50 pounds, what sort of diet do you suggest?

                        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                        I bet you built the skills to drive around the USA in a vehicle 50 years ago. You don't just have a map and a destination. But you have a vehicle that will reliably make the journey. And if after you get you to New York and get your business done. You can drive to the coast of main and get amazing fresh off the boat seafood if you wanted.

                        And if you want to avoid traffic from experience you could choose to make the road trip at night

                        Most people actually have goals but uses great your example they go from Akron to New York City in a way that gets them stuck in the city

                        In effect people are setting goals but basically choosing to lose 100 pounds by flying down to Columbia and doing cocaine and drinking the water to get diarrhea. Yeah they might lose the weight but they are much worse off and might have much bigger problems
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                  • Profile picture of the author DABK
                    I am going to disagree with you about the lack of motivation while agreeing with you.


                    Lack of motivation is the result of two strong forces duking it out with neither being much stronger than the other:


                    1. you have the desire to make money, to succeed
                    2. you have the desire to save face, to not be proven a failure.


                    Many people are not aware why they're not doing what they're supposed to do, what they know they need to do to get what they want.


                    Many do.


                    Most do not know that a bit of reframing can get the 2nd to decrease, thereby, allowing the 1st one to move forward.


                    I am just as guilty as anyone else. I just know why I'm not moving forward with whatever it is I am procrastinating.


                    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                    Funny, I am more or less at this point. There really isn't a how-to guide to what I want to do anywhere so I had to craft my own plan.Yet I often take the wrong action, but I almost never seem to really run out of things to do.


                    In my experience, there aren't POA or books, it's more like piecing disparate puzzle pieces together with a pattern like 3 step forward, 1 step back.

                    Or perhaps like uncovering those Russian dolls, where a problem will lead to another and another and another. E.g. I might do a few prospective calls, and realize that my offer was way too generic, thus sending me back to the drawing board. Taking action uncovers a problem which uncovers antoher and another...

                    To be quite frank, I suspect most of the "not taking action" has to do with lack of motivation.


                    Suppose you didn't know how to swim and you were thrown in the Mississipi river at night... with people with sticks trying to keep your head under water and actively trying to drown you. You'll start splashing around wildly.You won't care about looking like an idiot. You won't care if what you're doing aligns with the Moon Goddess or the LOA or wtv. In any case, you'll do something.
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                • Profile picture of the author DABK
                  Something I learned:


                  If you want to increase the odds that you will take action on something, do something physical within 5 seconds of taking the decision to do so.


                  For instance, you want to sell on Ebay? Write that desire down. Open Ebay and create an account. Check if they sell the types of shoes you're planning to sell and for how much.


                  How big the physical thing you do is, how long it takes, it's not relevant. What is relevant is that you 'marry' an idea/decision with a physical action.


                  It does not guarantee that you will end up doing it; it increases the odds a lot.


                  PS. If you're like me, do not write what you want to do on your planner or to-do list, that's where my ideas go to die.


                  Do something else. If you must write, write in your future projects notebook, like I do. (Don't ask me why, but things in the future project notebook do not die forgotten like they do in my planner or on my to-do lists.)




                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  Succinct as always PrincessB,

                  Even 10th USER wisdom presented with a twist, can be valuable.

                  Mostly, I go back to Plato, Aristotle and what they lack, Shakespeare suffices. Not much new there. But great stuff.

                  And Kilgore is right about the Execution of an idea, and he says:

                  For me the books that have been most helpful are the books that have helped me to think about business in ne