Would you pay this person? He wants $750!!! UPDATE

62 replies
I guess this is my Friday the 13th Luck....

okay - this'll seem a little long but it has put me in a strange situation and I am still trying to figure this out and what to do about it.

The story: about 2 months ago, I had a problem with a membership site of mine and needed some work done. I had had previous help from a site mechanic/programmer and so I emailed him and asked him to take a look at it and see what he thought. He told me he could fix it right up - no problems and he'd do it because we had worked together in the past.

Fast forward 2 months: I logged into the members area a week ago to find that there had been a complete makeover. It looked awesomely sweet and had super graphics and lots of other cool toys and tricks. In a word - it was beautiful.

Now I have received an invoice for $750 for the work that this person did.

I didn't hire him. I didn't agree to pay him. All we discussed was him taking a look at it and fixing the one small problem and that was a gratis thing.

I want to be able to use the services of this person again and value their expertise and ability and like having their services available to tap into. If I tick them off, I'll have to go find someone new and we all know how long that can take.

I'm appreciative of the new stuff but to me this is like someone sneaking into your house and painting it while you are on vacation and then asking you to pay them for it.

So - on one hand, I want to be able to keep this person, but on the other hand, I didn't agree to hire them or pay them to do this work but now it's been done and they want money.

What would you do?

UPDATE:
Awesome ideas Warriors and I want to personally thank everyone who chimed in. Here's what's going on...

We talked this afternoon on skype. His side of the story is that he fixed the little bug and then saw something else and fixed it, and then saw something else, and he just kept going... got carried away. There is a slight language barrier but I am pretty sure that once he did a few things he started to see how he could do several things and enhance the value.

He apologized. Several times.

I explained that we did not have an agreement, I was under no obligation to pay him, but that I was happy with the work. I also explained that anything like this in the future would result in ZERO payment unless there was prior authorization by email and agreement on a price.

He was aok with it. (he's really a nice guy and hard worker)

Then I Paypaled him $800.

Then I changed my passwords.
#pay #person
  • Profile picture of the author MeTellYou
    This is really a cool.story... for one it's impressive that they did a great job without even bothering you once about it. When I work with people, I have to talk to them constantly.

    Here's what I would do.

    If you have the money, pay him. You'll make him really happy and he'll love you for it. Just make sure you metntion you never want a thing like this to happen again.

    That's what I would do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jays80
      I am yet to find such programmer!!!

      Having said that, have a word with him try explaining him the situation,
      If you feel its not right price, renegotiate he should be ok with it

      And make it clear future work needs to be done by fixing the price and work before hand.

      In all probability I would like to retain him,
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      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Sounds to me like a misunderstanding. I'm guessing that in your original conversation he believed you had authorised him to work on the site - that sort of misunderstanding is so easy to make, especially if you are communicating using a messenger program.

        Next time, just make sure you have checked his understanding of what you are asking him to do.

        It's obvious you are super happy with his work - so go ahead and pay him.
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        • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
          Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

          Sounds to me like a misunderstanding. I'm guessing that in your original conversation he believed you had authorised him to work on the site - that sort of misunderstanding is so easy to make, especially if you are communicating using a messenger program.

          Next time, just make sure you have checked his understanding of what you are asking him to do.

          It's obvious you are super happy with his work - so go ahead and pay him.

          I'd be happy to - just as soon as you send me the funds to do it with

          I just don't happen to have an extra $750 lying around to be spent on something I didn't plan for.

          But your help would be greatly appreciated.
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
            Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

            I'd be happy to - just as soon as you send me the funds to do it with

            I just don't happen to have an extra $750 lying around to be spent on something I didn't plan for.

            But your help would be greatly appreciated.
            It seems that finding this amount of spare cash that was not budgeted for is a problem - as it would be for me.

            So, simply paying up does not seem to be an option in this case.

            Karen
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            • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
              Originally Posted by Karen Connell View Post

              It seems that finding this amount of spare cash that was not budgeted for is a problem - as it would be for me.

              So, simply paying up does not seem to be an option in this case.

              Karen
              Maybe you are right. I thought winebuddy was rich
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              • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
                Mike,

                You're the only one who can determine the value of the work performed.

                If I told you to stand your ground, be a 'good business man', and tell the guy to cut his price, or you're not obligated to pay him, or you didn't have an upfront agreement, is my advice worthy of being heeded?

                Not likely.

                I don't have the scales necessary to judge the value you recieved, nor the future value of this individual to your business.

                Standing on principles here can do as much harm as it can do good for your relationship with this person. You could, in fact, turn a possible Win-Win situation into a Lose-Lose situation very easily.

                You need to be the judge, jury, and executioner on this one. Just be sure that what you execute brings the best long term solution. Only you will know what that is.

                KJ
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          • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
            Then I Paypaled him $800.
            Really??? lol

            Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

            I'd be happy to - just as soon as you send me the funds to do it with

            I just don't happen to have an extra $750 lying around to be spent on something I didn't plan for.D
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Talk to him.

    See what he has to say.

    Tell him you are happy with the work, but that you want an explanation as it wasn't authorised.

    Explain that if you are to have a long term relationship, he should only do authorised work etc.

    You are both adults. It can be sorted out.

    Basically, I guess you somehow want to express to him that you are a little bit pissed that he did it, but that you are also happy that he did.

    It would be interesting to hear what he has to say for himself. Perhaps he wanted to impress you, but then again just sending you a bill without an explanation is cheeky.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    but then again just sending you a bill without an explanation is cheeky.
    oh - there was an explanation all right - it was detailed on the bill :-) But no explanation as to WHY it was done. Maybe he was bored? Maybe he needed some work or money?

    Who knows?
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  • Profile picture of the author nota-bene
    Wow, Buddy, what a conundrum! Hmmmm...

    The kicker here seems to be that you want to be able to continue working with him. Not only that, but you are ever so pleased with his work. I think that the comments above are all leading to one particular route...someone like that is well worth keeping on your side.

    That being said, you are under no obligation to pay him. Actually, it is more than a little cheeky for him to expect you to. I would work on the basis of a compromise which, surely, you can reach as you are both adults.

    In answer to your question - I would offer to pay him (handsomely) for the fix that you had originally asked for, while also offering him a bonus for the extra work that HE decided to carry out under his own initiative. It is not worth falling out with him over - especially seeing as you are most impressed with his efforts - but nor should he be able to 'ransom' you like that. It maybe a good time to discuss ground rules for any future work!

    If it appears that you are going the extra mile to reward him for his efforts - as opposed to just flat out meeting his demands - then I am sure he will not feel hard done by. As 'TelegramSam' Says, "Perhaps he wanted to impress you!"

    On a final note, that figure is probably exaggerated somewhat, so surely there is scope for finding a deal that suits both parties.

    That's my tuppence

    Oh, and do we get to see this wonderful work??

    Cheers,

    Neal
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    • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
      Originally Posted by nota-bene View Post

      Wow, Buddy, what a conundrum! Hmmmm...

      The kicker here seems to be that you want to be able to continue working with him. Not only that, but you are ever so pleased with his work. I think that the comments above are all leading to one particular route...someone like that is well worth keeping on your side.

      That being said, you are under no obligation to pay him. Actually, it is more than a little cheeky for him to expect you to. I would work on the basis of a compromise which, surely, you can reach as you are both adults.

      In answer to your question - I would offer to pay him (handsomely) for the fix that you had originally asked for, while also offering him a bonus for the extra work that HE decided to carry out under his own initiative. It is not worth falling out with him over - especially seeing as you are most impressed with his efforts - but nor should he be able to 'ransom' you like that. It maybe a good time to discuss ground rules for any future work!

      If it appears that you are going the extra mile to reward him for his efforts - as opposed to just flat out meeting his demands - then I am sure he will not feel hard done by. As 'TelegramSam' Says, "Perhaps he wanted to impress you!"

      On a final note, that figure is probably exaggerated somewhat, so surely there is scope for finding a deal that suits both parties.

      That's my tuppence

      Oh, and do we get to see this wonderful work??

      Cheers,

      Neal
      only if you join the site and get into the members area - but of course, I can't promote it here.

      Thanks for the ideas! That was more where I was leaning - give a little but set future ground rules.

      If I offer something and he doesn't think it's enough... what then?

      Signed,
      over a barrell
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      • Profile picture of the author nota-bene
        Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

        only if you join the site and get into the members area - but of course, I can't promote it here.

        Thanks for the ideas! That was more where I was leaning - give a little but set future ground rules.

        If I offer something and he doesn't think it's enough... what then?

        Signed,
        over a barrell
        The bottom line is that YOU are the boss... You pay him for what you ask him to do. End of!

        General rules of negotiation for me would be to set a price in my mind that YOU are happy with for the work he has done. Make it quite apparent that, although they went over and above the call of duty, that this was not something that you had agreed upon. As it stands, it is actually you that is extending themselves in this situation.

        Fix a price that you are willing to pay, offer less and leave room for a settlement within your budget when he inevitably comes back with his price. It is imperative that you control the situation!

        If there is no budging from his side, then you have a problem. Is it so nice that you could never imagine going back to the way it was before?
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        • Profile picture of the author theimdude
          It sounds like you value his work so pay him for it. Be open with him and if you can't pay him now make an arrangement.

          Ask yourself if what he did added value to your membership site and your members. If the answer is yes then pay.
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

        only if you join the site and get into the members area - but of course, I can't promote it here.

        Thanks for the ideas! That was more where I was leaning - give a little but set future ground rules.

        If I offer something and he doesn't think it's enough... what then?

        Signed,
        over a barrell
        I would say it depends on several variables.

        1) How much the site makes for you.
        2) How much income you have; how soon you could come up with $750 without causing you and yours a lot of hurt or risk.
        3) Your best estimate of the increase to your income from his improvements.
        4) How bad you want to keep him.

        Some good ideas were mentioned, but here's one I didn't see: perhaps, if you feel the work was really worth it, but you just can't afford it now, and you do anticipate a profit increase as a result of his work, you could offer to pay him down the road; part of it upfront, and part of it on a performance basis; he gets a percent of the increase for the next 6 months, or until the $750 is reached, if it takes longer.

        Or you could negotiate paying him on a strict performance basis, especially if you're not too confident that his changes will substantially help your profit margin. Offer him a percent of the increase over the next year; that way if he did help you a lot, he might make more than $750, but you don't pay out of pocket; and if his work doesn't make a big difference, you get it for less than $750.

        If this site is a big earner, and your tight budget is expected to be short lived, it might be worth it to just pay him what he wants, but ask him to take a third of it at a time, starting next month, and the other payments a month apart. Explain that it came as a shock, and you really don't feel he should have done it without explicit authorization, but you like it so you're willing to pay; just not right now.

        Good luck, and enjoy your beautiful new site; hope it makes you a pile of cash!
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  • Profile picture of the author dsmpublishing
    hi

    i get requests quite often from outsourcers looking for work but i have never had one complete the work without asking for it.

    I would offer to pay half as you didnt ask for it and you havent had a proper explanation.

    kind regards


    sam
    X
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    The best way to deal with a situation like this is to be completely honest.

    Tell him that you don't have the money available to pay the invoice that he sent.

    Explain that, had you known in advance that he would be doing the amount of work that he did, you would have had to tell him to hold off as you haven't the funds to pay such a large invoice.

    Ask him if he will reduce the amount to a figure that you can pay - if not and you want to keep this chap on your side, see if you can negotiate a payment plan to suit you both.

    If you do continue to work with this guy, make it crystal clear that you can not/will not pay for any work that you did not authorize.

    My 2c.

    Karen
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    • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
      Originally Posted by Karen Connell View Post

      The best way to deal with a situation like this is to be completly honest.

      Tell him that you don't have the money available to pay the invoice that he sent.

      Explain that, had you known in advance that he would be doing the amount of work that he did, you would have had to tell him to hold off as you haven't the funds to pay such a large invoice.

      Ask him if he will reduce the amount to a figure that you can pay - if not and you want to keep this chap on your side, see if you can negotiate a payment plan to suit you both.

      If you do continue to work with this guy, make it crystal clear that you can not/will not pay for any work that you did not authorize.

      My 2c.

      Karen
      I agree with Karen on this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Oosha
    I think the best route to take is the one suggested by nota-bene. If you decide to pay him $300, you could first offer $200 and use the rest to satisfy him "if" he wants more. This way you're not going over budget if he's unhappy.

    Make it clear to him that you're only paying him for the unauthorized job because of the great work he's done for you in the past. Whatever you say, it's important not to make him feel indispensable.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisag
    I think you should immediately PM me his email information so I can hire him for a project.
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    • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
      Originally Posted by lisag View Post

      I think you should immediately PM me his email information so I can hire him for a project.
      LOL uhhhh no.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rachel Rofe
        Originally Posted by lisag

        I think you should immediately PM me his email information so I can hire him for a project.
        Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

        LOL uhhhh no.
        Why not? If you don't have/don't want to have the funds to pay the dude at least you can do something nice for him! Seems like a win/win to me!
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The story: about 2 months ago, I had a problem with a membership site of mine and needed some work done. I had had previous help from a site mechanic/programmer and so I emailed him and asked him to take a look at it and see what he thought. He told me he could fix it right up - no problems and he'd do it because we had worked together in the past.

          Fast forward 2 months: I logged into the members area a week ago to find that there had been a complete makeover. It looked awesomely sweet and had super graphics and lots of other cool toys and tricks. In a word - it was beautiful.
          Obvious question, perhaps - why did it take two months for you to go back to the site? Did you have any contact with him after he told you he could "fix it up"? If you gave him access (passwords) it is odd you would not have changed the password after the one correction you requested was made. It's risky allowing others full access to your site.

          I'd be honest - that you can't afford the work he did and didn't authorize a total site makeover but that he did a fantastic job. I'd try to negotiate a lower price and pay it over time - IF you want to keep the work. But I'd also be very clear that no work is to be done for you without written authorization and clear terms defined.

          I'd also offer to recommend his services to others who are looking to pay for programming.

          kay
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by lisag View Post

      I think you should immediately PM me his email information so I can hire him for a project.
      Designers who do unauthorized work and then send you a bill for it in big demand, are they?

      I'll never understand folks. This guy has basically conned the OP, and there are folks here ready to reward him for it. And make no mistake, he is running a con. That's why the OP didn't hear anything from the guy for 2 months, and then, *ta da*, out of the blue, an invoice for $750 for work that was never requested. At the least, he's highly irresponsible, unreliable, and not trustworthy. Why anyone would want to work with such a person is beyond me.

      On second thought, maybe I'll get into this business. I'll just start redesigning random warriors websites without their authorization, and then send them an invoice for it. If this thread is any indication, I could make a killing.
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  • Profile picture of the author E-supreme
    I aagree just pay him for the value you believe is fair to both of you and a value that can keep your business relationship intact.
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  • Profile picture of the author rwb24
    If you think he intentionally tried to take advantage of you, then I would dump the guy and not use him again. But if you feel it was a honest misunderstanding, I would try to work out some type of payment plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    I might do this.

    Thank him for the beautiful work. Send him a check for $750, but add a note like..

    "You did a beautiful job, I really like it. We talked about it, but I never told you to go ahead and do the work. We never discussed a price and frankly this wasn't in my budget. I don't know where the communication broke down. If it was my fault I apologize. Lets work together in the future to avoid any misunderstandings"
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    • Profile picture of the author waken
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      I might do this.

      Thank him for the beautiful work. Send him a check for $750, but add a note like..

      "You did a beautiful job, I really like it. We talked about it, but I never told you to go ahead and do the work. We never discussed a price and frankly this wasn't in my budget. I don't know where the communication broke down. If it was my fault I apologize. Lets work together in the future to avoid any misunderstandings"
      Wow.. well, if money isn't an issue this should work great.. but I would do it the other way round.. drop the note to him, telling him that you would pay but request for a discounted amount. You'll most likely get a favorable reply if he is well aware what he was doing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
        Originally Posted by waken View Post

        Wow.. well, if money isn't an issue this should work great.. but I would do it the other way round.. drop the note to him, telling him that you would pay but request for a discounted amount. You'll most likely get a favorable reply if he is well aware what he was doing.
        I'm assuming money isn't an issue with winebuddy . At least I don't think it is. He could ask for a discount I guess. I was trying to shame the programmer into offering the discount or wave the fee himself.

        The idea is to think long term. It sounds like this guy is good. I would not want to lose him. It would cost much more that $750 to find and try new programmers.
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        • Profile picture of the author waken
          Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

          I'm assuming money isn't an issue with winebuddy . At least I don't think it is. He could ask for a discount I guess. I was trying to shame the programmer into offering the discount or wave the fee himself.

          The idea is to think long term. It sounds like this guy is good. I would not want to lose him. It would cost much more that $750 to find and try new programmers.
          That's right and probably why it should work better the other way round.. I mean, drop your excellent note first and pay later (if he still requested for it) simply because not everyone have this self-conscious despite your well crafted note that will invoke human's emotion and self mirror to think. Just my 2 cents but really.. your note really great, seriously.

          and as Adam put it.. to avoid this ...

          Originally Posted by adamv View Post

          On the other hand, how did this guy get the impression that you were basically handing him a blank check for him to do some work and then charge you whatever he wants?
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          • Profile picture of the author DogScout
            Originally Posted by waken View Post

            That's right and probably why it should work better the other way round.. I mean, drop your excellent note first and pay later (if he still requested for it) simply because not everyone have this self-conscious despite your well crafted note that will invoke human's emotion and self mirror to think. Just my 2 cents but really.. your note really great, seriously.

            and as Adam put it.. to avoid this ...
            I've paid more than $750 for crap. Sounds like a misunderstanding. You intimate you were reasonably close so he may have taken the conversation as a go with no contract. Pay in installments, just explain money constraints and you didn't realize he thought you had given him a go. if he is as close as you seem to say he is, he should be good with that. Be sure that he understands any future things he does should be requested by you in an email at the least. (I'd say contract, but that might strain the relationship.)
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  • Profile picture of the author wantselltrade
    The best thing to do is be honest. Start by saying "maybe I missed something but..." When you both figure out what happened, lay the ground rules for projects going forward. ie communication, work order prior etc. I think if you are honest, the programmer will more than likely really cut the bill. This will not only keep you happy for the good job (although not wanted) but keep him happy AND keep him on your side for future projects.

    Just me 2cents
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    • Profile picture of the author adamv
      That's definitely a bit of a conundrum. On the one hand, you have someone that does quality work and whose services you would like to use again in the future. On the other hand, how did this guy get the impression that you were basically handing him a blank check for him to do some work and then charge you whatever he wants?

      It sounded like you told him that you wanted a simple fix and he took it upon himself to redesign the entire page and then turn around and charge you for it. If this is truly the case, he is clearly in the wrong but if you are trying to maintain a relationship with this person so that you can work with him in the future, the solution is not as simple as saying "I never told you to do that, so I'm not paying."

      I wish I could give you some good advice but the right way to handle this situation is something that you're going to have to decide for yourself.

      Personally, I wouldn't pay for something I did not agree to in the first place. As a service provider I would never take it upon myself to perform services and then expect payment without some sort of up front agreement.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    This happens a lot online, people want to get a foot in the door so they dont state their intentions clearly enough and both parties end up at odds later

    Unless you had agreed to pay him $750 or unless he had stated it was going to cost $750 I would not be paying the guy

    Its crticical that people get a written agreement when they do work, otherwise crap like this happens

    If you asked him to take a look and give you a quote thats one thing, but to ask him to take a look and then he takes it on himself to do it and then bill you.. no sorry thats b.s

    Obviously some work has been done and you needed it done, so i would try to come to some agreement with him which is fair ( a price ) based on the fact that he never told you what it would cost, and you didnt give him the go ahead

    Now if you gave him the go ahead and you didnt enquire as to what it would cost, then unfortunetly yes you would need to pay the guy as the boo boo would be on your end for not specifically asking what it would cost and giving him the go ahead.

    As for losing the guy - there are thousand of good programmers out there, that are easy to find
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You asked him to take a look and he agreed he could fix it. No mention of money anywhere it seems. Bad way to do business. You should have mentioned to him that you would like to have it done for free and he should have given you the scope of work and his price before doing the work. You should have asked for a price or agreed that it would be free before assuming that it would be free. I'm not sure why you would think that it would be free, actually, but it appears to me that neither of you had any of the usual discussions that you should have had beforehand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    Winebuddy,

    In my opinion, you do have one other alternative... give him back his work. It seems as though everyone is assuming that you get to keep it whether you pay or not. That's not fair.

    I would be upfront and tell him that you really love his changes to the site. Unfortunately, there was a misunderstanding and you never intended for him to do this level of work without discussing the work AND the price beforehand. BECAUSE you don't have enough money to pay him that high a fee right now.

    Tell him you would never want him to feel cheated because he does exceptional work and you do want to work with him again.

    Then offer to work it out so that you're both happy and offer this solution (if it's acceptable to you):

    1. Ask if he can reduce the price to something you can afford (and throw out a reasonable number)... you can also offer to make it up to him by giving him recommendations and getting him other work to make up for the loss... you've already got at least one taker on this thread (lisag)... or...

    2. Set up an installment payment plan for the $750 to give you time to pay, or...

    3. Have him undo the changes so that you don't benefit from his work without paying (although he'll probably expect at least some payment for the time involved). I doubt he'll be happy with this option, but if you find you're completely unable to pay, this may be your only alternative. Be careful he doesn't trash your site, though.

    Decide what your end goal is BEFORE you talk to him and what your fall-back positions are if he doesn't accept your initial offer. I've given you 3 suggestions above for how to resolve this. You could also BARTER with him and offer to exchange some product or service of equal value to him.

    But you can't reasonably expect to keep all those changes without paying him... especially if the work is good.

    Stay calm and talk to him without sounding accusatory. Because from his point of view, he did a lot of work and now you're not going to pay him. I'd expect him to be very unhappy about that. If you want to work with him again, you need to find a way to resolve this amicably.

    By the way, how much are you willing to pay him for his work? That will make a big difference as to how you resolve this, IMHO.

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I had the SAME THING happen! I asked a current worker to cleanup my flower beds for a MODEST charge, and I came home and it was BEAUTIFUL! NEIGHBORS were ASTONISHED, and said "It looks like a million bucks". SERIOUSLY! They were admiring it when I got home! And THEN, I got a bill for over $500. He not only cleaned it up, but applied some good mulch. I ended up paying him.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author millionairemoney
      Assuming your side of the story is 100%, you should not be the one on the defensive here.

      I like the open honesty approach with the situation mentioned above. You might want to talk to him on the phone if you can. I'd say I really do love the work, but this isn't what I signed up for. Then I'd counter with the price of the agreed upon work and a tip for going above and beyond and see what he says.

      Also mention how you'd like to continue to business with him in the future because of this great work and you hope this misunderstanding won't prevent that.

      But again, according to your story, he is in the wrong here. A reasonable person in this line of work doesn't assume more work and then bill for it. I think this was more wishful thinking on his part.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Heres the problem. As a programmer too I feel his pain if this was all that was said

    The story: about 2 months ago, I had a problem with a membership site of mine and needed some work done
    Some work done? The Devil is in the details of that conversation and in that conversation along with any email or other records is where you have legal obligations to pay or not. The details of how the request was made and what the actual request was are the issues.
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    • Profile picture of the author Popstar
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Heres the problem. As a programmer too I feel his pain if this was all that was said



      Some work done? The Devil is in the details of that conversation and in that conversation along with any email or other records is where you have legal obligations to pay or not. Doesn't matter what anyone here says. The details of how the request was made is the issue.
      I think we all would agree with you, Mike. Although if there aren't good email records, each of them could have a different recollection of the conversation.

      Here's the problem as I see it: winebuddy wants to be able to use this programmer again. So winebuddy can't just pick a number and tell the guy he has to take it. If the programmer's unhappy, he's not going to want to work with winebuddy again.

      Personally, I'd pay the guy if I liked his work even if I had to do it in installments. Unless the membership site is a free one, it shouldn't be too hard to make $750.

      But it's not my money. So it's not my decision.

      And it's the programmer's decision as to whether he'll ever work with winebuddy again. So winebuddy doesn't have all the power in this situation either because he wants to maintain a relationship with the programmer.

      These kinds of misunderstandings almost always lead to someone feeling cheated. It's a tough situation.

      Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    I want to be able to use the services of this person again and value their expertise and ability and like having their services available to tap into.
    Then pay him but when you do, say something like:

    "I just wanted a quote but since it looks good I'll go ahead and pay it. This time."
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  • Profile picture of the author AmyBrown
    Definitely an odd and potentially messy situation. I'd suggest changing the passwords to the site prior to contacting the programmer. That's not to imply that you should necessarily benefit from the misunderstanding however for your protection, as well as that of your members, it would be prudent to remove his access until the issue is resolved.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
    I'd pay him the money. If he did that good of a job that your only 'annoyance' is that he didn't ask you first, keep him around. If you don't, send me his information because I'd like to have him do some work (Now of course for future, I might just make it a little more clear that 'please' ask first, but definitely keep him around).

    Cheers,

    Johnathan
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    • Profile picture of the author KEY
      since you DO like what changes were made?
      It looked awesomely sweet and had super graphics and lots of other cool toys and tricks. In a word - it was beautiful
      I would think that some payment should be offered.

      ...I would have to think that there was a misunderstanding! hard
      to believe anyone would just hop into something and do such a
      makeover without any expectation of payment. you DID ask to have the
      problem fixed up. any chance that you alluded to other work needing
      done before the site was ready to go?

      in the future, be sure that there is some 'solid' understanding of what is to be done, and what the fee(s) will be for the work.

      seems to be only 3 choices.
      1-do not pay? you will never get any help again...

      2- just offer to pay $50-$75 a month (after the site is up and running) until the bill is paid (since you say money is short),

      3- just an idea, but why not offer to pay for the 'problem' fix (which you did ask for) but offer to have a non affiliate link "site script/design by xxxx.yyy" this way mr. programmer gets a few $$, but the future work should be worth passing on the pay for the 'bonus' work.

      KEY
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      • Profile picture of the author kf
        THere's three sides to every story.

        Your version. His version. And what really happened.

        If you value the relationship, you'll have to start with communication. Just start a dialogue with him. Something along the lines of ... I don't remembering setting terms for the work to be done or receiving a quote from you.

        Take responsibility for it ... *I* don't remember ... *I* was under the impression you would be doing a quick fix for free ... *I* love what you did but didn't anticipate the work or the invoice ...

        I'd put it in writing and send the following email:

        I really value our work relationship and think you're a tremendous programmer. The work you did was excellent. However, I'd like to discuss the invoice I received ... since so much is lost in email and IM, is there a time we can speak on the phone to discuss it?

        Don't make it personal. Don't get defensive. And next time - with him or anyone else - be crystal clear on what needs to be done with scope, time lines and cost in place.

        Not directing this at anybody specifically --- but given the income claims flying around on the forum, many providers might think a $750 invoice wouldn't be an issue.

        BTW, $750 sounds cheap given the glowing comments on his work and final product. Premium work often comes with a premium price (and $750 is not premium IMO).
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  • Profile picture of the author AverageGuy
    If I were you, I will pay him the $750, and also tell him that maybe there was a misunderstanding between you and him (because you did not expect him to do so much), so that, next time, it won't happen again.

    show your appreciation and respect to him and his work. in the long run, you will gain more. it takes much much more than $750 to find a good developer that you can trust.



    david
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AverageGuy View Post

      If I were you, I will pay him the $750, and also tell him that maybe there was a misunderstanding between you and him (because you did not expect him to do so much), so that, next time, it won't happen again.

      show your appreciation and respect to him and his work. in the long run, you will gain more. it takes much much more than $750 to find a good developer that you can trust.



      david
      A guy who does work you didn't ask for, and then bills you for it is someone you can trust, lol?
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      • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
        Failing to understand the perspectives of others in disagreements is truly one of the great foibles of our species.

        It sounds like you have gone overboard on trying to understand his perspective on the matter; It does not sound as he has considered your perspective. You are much, much more giving and understanding than I would be in the matter. There is no way I would consider paying him for the work beyond the original fix. He should have contacted you before he did the extra fix work.

        It's like a company sending you a product you didn't order in the mail and then billing you for it. No way, the product is yours to keep.

        The only thing I can see is that you want to keep him as a valuable service provider, but there are a lot of under-employed programmers out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author ivana
    I would change the log in information right away. Sorry, but that site is YOUR property! HE/SHE did not have the right to touch anything else! Maybe they made the improvement, thinking it needed to be done. So first step to change user log in, second to talk to him/her.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    You obviously need to talk. I would let him know of my surprise and how you were not expecting that much work and size of bill. If you can pay him without too much stress on your finances, I would pay him. If this is the least bit of a strain on your finances, I would offer to pay him over time or some other type of compromise. Make sure that he understands that this was over and above the terms that you were agreeing to have him perform. But that you do like what he did so you are willing to compensate him for it.

    That is what I would do. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Thanks for all the replies - just put an update in the OP.

    I used a lot of what was here when talking to the guy today - it helped - a LOT.

    I posted a brief summary but the conversation was about 25 minutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashmasterr
    that's right! but if you have the money , pay him off !
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

    UPDATE:
    Then I Paypaled him $800.
    Now I get it. You didn't have $750 lying around, you had $800, lol.

    By the way, I think you did the right thing. Glad you got it straightened out.

    Debbie
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    • Profile picture of the author theimdude
      Wow you don't have 750 and the bad english the guy used convinced you to give him 50 more. So where do I send the inovice for my adveci ?
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    I have never had $750 lying around for something I didn't plan on. I plan for everything - even flat tires.

    But in this case, I wanted to make good and make a point. I think I did.
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  • Profile picture of the author jjthomas
    Banned
    Of course, pay the $750! Sounds like you have an awesome guy on hand. I'll find work for him if you don't!
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  • Profile picture of the author nota-bene
    Glad you got it sorted out!

    Thanks for the update
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Since he did do the work.....might as well pay him.

    Obviously, he thought you authorized the work, so it could get sticky in court (especially if he can prove it).

    Next time, get everything in writing before letting him procede.
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