Cancel culture: Trouble for brands or just noise?

by WarriorForum.com Administrator
50 replies
A new article on Marketing Dive reports that while about half of U.S. online adults say they'll boycott a brand due to unethical business practices or if it mistreats employees, 25% say their loyalty to a brand may prevent them from actually doing so.



Among U.S. business-to-consumer marketing executives, 57% believe that threats of being canceled have no material impact on company sales and nearly 6 in 10 feel the same about the impact to their company's brand, per Forrester's September 2021 Consumer Energy Index And Retail Pulse Survey cited in the new report. An important takeaway from the report, "Cancel Culture Is Loud, But for Most Brands, It's Just Noise," is that although cancel culture has proliferated across society -- aided by social media and divisive partisanship -- its impact is nominal, affecting people more than companies.

Forrester takes a look at the hot topic of "canceling" a company or brand with a public campaign to hold it accountable for perceived bad behavior. WThe researcher suggests several ways brands can mitigate the risk of landing in hot water: Own up to mistakes, as 41% of U.S. online adults would go back to a brand after an apology; be indispensable because 32% say they won't boycott a brand that is embedded in their lives, and uphold company values as 22% say they will boycott a brand that doesn't share their values.

Several recent examples highlight how brands have failed to accurately assess the potential impact of cancel culture. One high-profile cancellation took place early in 2021 when privately owned Goya faced calls for a national boycott of its products. It followed Goya Foods CEO Robert Unanue's vocal support for President Donald Trump following the 2020 presidential election. Unanue was censured by Goya's board for his comments and forbidden from giving press interviews without pre-approval. However, Forrester's research suggests that a CEO's comments aren't necessarily a problem for most consumers.

"While less than a majority (40%) of U.S. online adults indicated that they are likely to boycott a brand if the brand's CEO does or says something inappropriate/offensive/scandalous, 32% were neutral on the matter -- signaling that they could flip depending on the nature of the issue," per the report.

Last summer, employees of Activision Blizzard, which makes Call of Duty and Candy Crush games, walked off the job, protesting what they called the company's "tone-deaf" response to a California lawsuit charging it with discrimination and harassment against women in the workplace. Activision workers around the world joined the protest, which led to the resignation of the company's president.

There are ongoing boycotts of brands considered to be engaging in unethical business practices, including one against Air France for shipping monkeys to laboratories, against Amazon for avoiding taxes and against Caterpillar for selling bulldozers to Israel (as they can be used to destroy Palestinian homes), to name a few. These examples underscore increased consumer sensitivity to certain business activities, with Forrester finding that 55% of U.S. online adults say that they'll boycott a brand if it's found to have unethical business practices.
#brands #cancel #culture #noise #trouble
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Banned
    I wish misinformation was cancelled. Lives are getting cancelled permanantly.

    Will be interesting to see how the Spotify/Rogan issue plays out.

    Subsribers based monetization could turn into a nightmare tidal wave on one hand an they are invested in Rogan for 100 Million.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      I wish misinformation was cancelled. Lives are getting cancelled permanantly.

      Will be interesting to see how the Spotify/Rogan issue plays out.

      Subsribers based monetization could turn into a nightmare tidal wave on one hand an they are invested in Rogan for 100 Million.
      I listened to the "slurs" that Rogan said in a compilation video.

      It was nothing. The only people offended are people who's job it is to be offended.

      And as far as misinformation on Covid? He has repeatedly said that he isn't a doctor or an expert, and that he hosts interesting guests. Personally, I think he's wrong on many subjects...but he has repeatedly said that he's not an expert.

      If he wasn't the most popular podcaster on the planet, nobody would care.

      Spotify will keep him because he's a cash cow, and they know this will pass. In a week, nobody will be talking about this, because the next shiny object will draw the attention of these people.

      Added February 18th.

      See? Nine days later...and nobody cares about the many sins of Joe Rogan. Another shiny object has grabbed the attention of the mob.
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      • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I listened to the "slurs" that Rogan said in a compilation video.

        It was nothing. The only people offended are people who's job it is to be offended.

        And as far as misinformation on Covid? He has repeatedly said that he isn't a doctor or an expert, and that he hosts interesting guests. Personally, I think he's wrong on many subjects...but he has repeatedly said that he's not an expert.

        If he wasn't the most popular podcaster on the planet, nobody would care.

        Spotify will keep him because he's a cash cow, and they know this will pass. In a week, nobody will be talking about this, because the next shiny object will draw the attention of these people.
        Well I guess some people need to wake up black an see if a referance to "Planet of The Apes" offends you or not.

        Then contiued use of Nword.

        Im a white guy an it was not offensive? "Nothing"?

        Myself an "THE ROCK" disagree my friend.

        Unreal.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

          Well I guess some people need to wake up black an see if a referance to "Planet of The Apes" offends you or not.

          Then contiued use of Nword.

          Im a white guy an it was not offensive? "Nothing"?

          Myself an "THE ROCK" disagree my friend.

          Unreal.
          We all see the world through a different lens. And we all think our lens is the clear one.
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          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            We all see the world through a different lens. And we all think our lens is the clear one.

            I agree.
            one man's axe murderer is another's warrior of freedom
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          • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            We all see the world through a different lens. And we all think our lens is the clear one.
            Must be nice to not get insulted then have to explain it in the first place.

            Yes thats a privileged world some dont get to enjoy.

            Interesting Spotify deleted 70 of his podcasts after latest reveal. But they were fine with it before that.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

              Must be nice....
              Strange. My first wife had the habit of starting every argument with "Must be nice to...." followed by some passive aggressive jab.

              She's dead now.

              I honestly never thought I would hear those words again.
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              • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Strange. My first wife had the habit of starting every argument with "Must be nice to...." followed by some passive aggressive jab.

                She's dead now.

                I honestly never thought I would hear those words again.
                It's no fun when it's your culture getting canceled.
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  • Profile picture of the author Old Molases
    Its good to see people raising their voice against stuff that is unethical. Monopoly needs to be shattered so that good can prevail.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    The only people offended are people who's job it is to be offended.

    That is so often the case...and then the celeb rushes to 'apologize anyone I offended'....I wouldn't be good at that part. You would have to tape my fingers together to protect me from the mob....
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  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    I think the Goya Foods example is a bad one, although I'm not all too sure it doesn't prove that boycotts do not work. Their sales spiked tremendously after the "boycott" was announced due to supporters on the opposite side of the fence. In fact, their CEO joked about naming AOC employee of the month due to the 1,000% increase in sales that her "boycott" initiated.

    I'd like to think that the radicals on either side of any issue - you know, the ones who drive boycotts - are rather small in number compared to the number of people who buy a product because they like it or who are on the opposite side of the fence who will start buying something they have never purchased before simply because of the boycott. My gut tells me that boycotts do the exact opposite of what they intend. Over the long haul, brands pick up more customers due to the exposure except in rare cases where everybody would be offended (e.g. they are killing puppies).
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  • Profile picture of the author WF- Enzo
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    People also demand accountability from brands.
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    • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
      Originally Posted by WF- Enzo View Post

      People also demand accountability from brands.
      That's a pretty general blanket statement. More correct, a handful of people demand accountability from brands. The rest buy what they like the most and don't pay attention to the noise. And frankly, the vast majority of people have no clue that any controversy exists at all.
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  • If'n cancel culchah were real, gals way back when woulda strung up the Hathaway shirt guy by the balls for actively blankin' their undeniable beautiliciousness c/o sum faux eyeball ishoo.

    But they didn't.

    So I would wanna call it progress how we shapin' up what we wanna see in our shop windows.

    A two-bit shoelace converts any eyepatch into a thong.

    But who would wear such an unexotic monstrosity?
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  • Profile picture of the author TobiMDD
    I hate the cancel culture.

    Thats all I have to say here hehe
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  • Profile picture of the author EugeneSiuch
    Cancel culture is a sh*t anyway, because it's the law of free speech
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  • Profile picture of the author KillerVirus
    I find it funny (haha funny, not funny queer) these "cancel" people do thier "causes" more harm than good and are too blind to see it.

    i.e. The big protest over a specific Confederate flag. They howled for it to come down and it did.

    That same day I ordered three. One for each cabin and one to store for later.

    I'm not from the south and feel no empathy for the confederacy. It's part of my nations history and I don't believe in reWriting it.

    I went back several hours later thinking I would order several more, but they were sold out.

    I opted for notification of restock. When the notice came I ordered. Out of curiosity I check the next day and they were sold out again.

    I checked some other sites and they were all sold out.

    So, one came down (hurrah for our side) and probably hundreds of thousands went up.

    That's a victory?
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    • Profile picture of the author MSutton
      Originally Posted by KillerVirus View Post

      That's a victory?

      The "woke" don't look that far into anything. They are merely an army of reactionaries who react on demand from a "higher power", then they just go back to their holes waiting for the next queue.
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      • Profile picture of the author WF- Enzo
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        These "reactionaries" demand accountability from ignorants.

        Originally Posted by MSutton View Post

        The "woke" don't look that far into anything. They are merely an army of reactionaries who react on demand from a "higher power", then they just go back to their holes waiting for the next queue.
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Banned
      Originally Posted by KillerVirus View Post

      I find it funny (haha funny, not funny queer) these "cancel" people do thier "causes" more harm than good and are too blind to see it.

      i.e. The big protest over a specific Confederate flag. They howled for it to come down and it did.

      That same day I ordered three. One for each cabin and one to store for later.

      I'm not from the south and feel no empathy for the confederacy. It's part of my nations history and I don't believe in reWriting it.

      I went back several hours later thinking I would order several more, but they were sold out.

      I opted for notification of restock. When the notice came I ordered. Out of curiosity I check the next day and they were sold out again.

      I checked some other sites and they were all sold out.

      So, one came down (hurrah for our side) and probably hundreds of thousands went up.

      That's a victory?
      Attacking your own country should be memorable huh an for the most pathetic reason.

      Perfect name.
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      • Profile picture of the author KillerVirus
        Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

        ...so, yes.

        And I chose that name quite carefully.

        "It's funny because it bothers you." - Trey Parker
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        • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
          Banned
          Originally Posted by KillerVirus View Post

          Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

          ...so, yes.
          I agree with you there.

          Many are now going to jail for it recently.

          Names don't offend my friend...they reveal.

          And Claude is right about the extreme hypocrisy on this issue.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by KillerVirus View Post

          Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

          ...so, yes.

          And I chose that name quite carefully.

          "It's funny because it bothers you." - Trey Parker
          it is a good name, and l commend you for your courage, in choosing something that may lose its shine over time.

          And this is how stupid this is becoming...


          https://newtube.app/TonyHeller/ZMubCia

          You cannot talk rationally anymore, have to watch every word, talk like a scientist on crack, and basically become insane while defending your sanity.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Banned
    Same people that point at others for cancel culture are banning books or curriculums ignoring what they think is someone elses history when its thier own history they want to rewrite hide cover up an cancel.

    But they always quoting an referencing Nazis. They know an embrace that history.

    Elon Musk just did it recently bringing up Hitler because someone wants to regulate Crypto.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      Same people that point at others for cancel culture are banning books or curriculums ignoring what they think is someone elses history when its thier own history they want to rewrite hide cover up an cancel.
      That.

      Banning books is saying "Everyone else has to think and believe the same way I do. And I want to make that enforceable." In my opinion, a position without thought.

      Of course, people on the other side are kind of doing the same thing. "I don't like what Joe Rogan said, so we should get rid of his podcasts (or worse)".

      Not exactly book banning, but it's appealing to the same instincts.

      "I'm claiming I'm more virtuous than you, so you have to go".

      See how that could apply to both cancel culture and the idiots banning books?

      Of course, I already know the arguments.

      "But Rogan is harming a culture, spreading lies and bad ideas"

      "But these books are harming our children, spreading lies and bad ideas"


      By the way, notice how nobody on the news is talking about Rogan's sin now? Another shiny object loses it's appeal for the mob.

      The same as the book banning. Zealots looking for another victim, to prove their moral superiority.....again, with torches and pitchforks.
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      • Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Banning books is saying "Everyone else has to think and believe the same way I do. And I want to make that enforceable." In my opinion, a position without thought.
        Reasoned argument loves to debate an' reconcile diverse views.

        That is why books like Herr Zumpf always gotta be available for scrootiny 'longside My Extraordinary Gay Desire an' Drink Your Way To Health With Your Pet's Amazing Urine.

        What mattahs always is currency.

        What takes evrywan forward?

        Likely there is overlap here with what takes individyools forward.

        Do we naht always diminish certain behaviors an' attitoods in favor of emergin' smartness?

        Yeah, for sure I can dance my titties off for these lewdster bar guys ... but if'n I run with the cool counsel ovah at Warrior Forum, mebbe I could become a celebrity YouToober cookery gal with hot 'nip tips' for stirrin' soups an' goulashes all natchrl.

        We always reframin' an' renewin' ourselves to take advantage of our relationship to the current moment.

        Had nomenclature happened diffrent, we mighta called this process cancel culchah.

        An optin' outta what ain't gowin' places no more versus openin' up opportoonity for noo stuffs tamara.

        In Breakthrough Advertisin', Yoogene Schwarz identifies a timescale of market realities.

        5 stages, if'n I remembah right, from startup concerns to dinosaur displays of armored scales.

        Here is an evolootion of circumstance & horizon in which frames of reference change.

        You can't always be startin' out an' proceedin' zif'n you were.

        2022 is fulla all kindsa realities an' inflooences.

        You would want all options to remain open -- but where is the momentum?

        By definition, closed paths of any kind could be described as "cancelled".

        Or "destroyed".

        Those are my thoughts rn as an uncannilly exotic mammal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Banned
    American origins began by some people getting off boats an cancelling the people that welcomed them.

    Can't cancel facts no matter how hard you try.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      American origins began by some people getting off boats an cancelling the people that welcomed them.

      Can't cancel facts no matter how hard you try.
      It's funny to me that everyone reading these words thinks you are agreeing with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Banned
    Intolerance never ends.

    If you put all the intolerant on one issue on an island it would still become "Lord of The Flies" in a matter of days..

    At this pace "United" will be on display in the Smithsonian.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      Intolerance never ends.

      If you put all the intolerant on one issue on an island it would still become "Lord of The Flies" in a matter of days..

      At this pace "United" will be on display in the Smithsonian.
      You say the word Intolerant. But we are all intolerant. And the closer you get to the extremes, the more it shows...on any issue...right or wrong.

      But we are all the same when it comes to views in opposition to our own. None of us are different in this respect.

      The "Intolerant" people are always the ones who disagree with us. I've noticed that....universally, the intolerant people aren't the ones who agree with us, no matter what our view is.

      Nobody ever says "That guy is intolerant. I agree with everything he says, but he's an intolerant jerk".

      Me? I'm an intolerant jerk, whether you agree with anything I say or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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    Alot of people are "coming out the closet" on this issue.

    And I dont mean sexually.

    Some will lose or who knows even gain new clients with what they comment or even click "like" to.

    Is it possible to cancel yourself?

    Usually decency and facts wins.

    Wars or Debates.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post


      Some will lose or who knows even gain new clients with what they comment or even click "like" to.
      An interesting effect of this is watching businesses display the "side" they are on.

      For some reason, small business owners often think they have to show support for "The Truth"...and of course, that means whatever position they agree with.

      An interesting effect isn't what they think it will be. Customers won't buy from you just because they see that you agree with a political (or religious) view. After all, you are simply agreeing with "The Truth"...."As you should".

      But...if they disagree with your view, and they see that displayed, they won't shop with you. It will cost you business. In many instances, it will cost you half your business, because you are repelling half the market.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        The solution seems simple, doesn't it: double your prices on the ones who agree with you.


        Problem solved, no?


        On a serious notes, a few years ago, I came across marketers who were teaching that you, a small business owner, should choose sides and make that choice public. People who agreed with your position will flock to you and make you rich. The more controversial your position, the better... Because any type of publicity is good, right? And if you get enough of it, some of the people who do not agree with your position will buy from you too, as a result of seeing your name often enough.







        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        An interesting effect of this is watching businesses display the "side" they are on.

        For some reason, small business owners often think they have to show support for "The Truth"...and of course, that means whatever position they agree with.

        An interesting effect isn't what they think it will be. Customers won't buy from you just because they see that you agree with a political (or religious) view. After all, you are simply agreeing with "The Truth"...."As you should".

        But...if they disagree with your view, and they see that displayed, they won't shop with you. It will cost you business. In many instances, it will cost you half your business, because you are repelling half the market.
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        • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
          Originally Posted by DABK View Post

          The more controversial your position, the better... Because any type of publicity is good, right? .
          Interesting point heard the saying bad press is better then no press.

          However in my area a farm stand the 80 year father this past fall. Made a big statement on his side how he felt about the election. On a street sign. On Reddit people were posting the business and complained. The majority that lean the opposite side. Said they would boycott the stand and mentioned 2 other non political farm stands in the same area. The daughter was busy on social media apologized about the incident because the damage was being done.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by DABK View Post

          On a serious notes, a few years ago, I came across marketers who were teaching that you, a small business owner, should choose sides and make that choice public. People who agreed with your position will flock to you and make you rich. The more controversial your position, the better... Because any type of publicity is good, right? And if you get enough of it, some of the people who do not agree with your position will buy from you too, as a result of seeing your name often enough.
          I know that school of thought, and I'm glad you brought it up.

          There is great truth to the idea of polarizing your audience, to make the ones that agree with you buy more from you. They will become devoted followers. But it depends on what you sell, and who you sell to.

          This works in entertainment, and positioning in marketing.

          But...let's say you sell guns to the public. Almost none of your customers are going to be liberal. Almost all will be conservative, and fear that the liberals are trying to take their guns away. Your ads can play into that fear, add political language, and generate more sales.

          So...advertising this conservative stance will help your sales, because the people it offends, weren't going to buy from you anyway.

          Most offers are politically neutral. A strong stance (on anything) won't help you, but it can hurt you.

          You mentioned the idea that "People who agreed with your position will flock to you and make you rich".

          No. People won't buy something they weren't going to buy anyway, just because they agree with you politically (or religiously). Having a controversial position helps you if you are selecting that audience....after they have found you.

          A controversial position won't help them buy what you sell. Unless the offer is really skewed to that audience. Like guns. Or tofu.

          Where this really works is in entertainment. Podcasts, radio. books, videos. They will subscribe to your channel because they love you or hate you. In these cases, they aren't buying what you sell. They are buying you.

          This doesn't apply to local service suppliers, retailers, professionals. You really need millions of potential listeners/viewers to make this work in your favor.

          I would never take a strong position publicly (for business) unless I knew that only a specific group, that already had these views, would buy from me anyway.

          For example, Dan Kennedy has a very specific audience. Very conservative business owners, and nobody else. And the vast majority of business owners (except in a few industries) are heavily conservative...so he is preaching to the choir.

          And once you find out if your business is heavily coming from one type of buyer, you preach whatever they believe.

          An example is Rush Limbaugh. All he has to sell is his political stance. And you are buying his persona, and his point of view.

          The same with Michael Moore. He has a persona, a point of view. That's what he's selling. And that's what you are buying.

          The worst thing in media is to be neutral. Neutral is boring. But if you are selling refrigerators, no political stance will help you. Controversial stances will just hurt you.

          Is the My Pillow Guy selling more pillows because of his politics? I doubt it. Although it is free publicity. I think it hurts more than helps. It shifts his buyers into a specific group. Pillows are bought by everyone. His political views are bought by far fewer.

          Local businesses? Except for guns and massage parlors, I think politics will hurt you.


          A competitor of mine is a very religious conservative, and put political signs on the front of his store. It probably hurt his sales by 30%. Enough to force his retirement.

          Another friend had a mattress store, and (for reasons that escape me) put out strong signs against our republican president. It did kill his business.

          Talk shows that are national? Great. Create controversy to find your audience. Local businesses? I wouldn't.


          Unfortunately, these "People who agreed with your position will flock to you and make you rich" teachings are taught where they don't apply. Not every idea works universally.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

        I wish misinformation was cancelled.
        Me too.

        We should start with ourselves. Misinformation can go away when we decide to take a middle of the road approach. The fact is that both sides have mostly good people. Both sides do many good things for the wellbeing of citizens. Both sides do wrong, tell lies, have affairs, etc. Misinformation starts when we can't accept that.

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        An interesting effect of this is watching businesses display the "side" they are on.

        <<snip>>

        But...if they disagree with your view, and they see that displayed, they won't shop with you. It will cost you business. In many instances, it will cost you half your business, because you are repelling half the market.
        I've had that feeling when big brands take certain sides. For example, I wish Coca Cola would just stick to making drinks, Delta to flying people around the world, and Hollywood types stick to their craft.

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          I've had that feeling when big brands take certain sides. For example, I wish Coca Cola would just stick to making drinks, Delta to flying people around the world, and Hollywood types stick to their craft.
          Coca Cola don't sell drinks - they sell lifestyle. They'll always take whatever side they think is the most popular with their market. Hollywood types believe their celebrity is due to themselves rather than their screen personas, and therefore assume the world has to be in thrall to their opinions.

          I don't know anything about Delta's marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        For some reason, small business owners often think they have to show support for "The Truth"...and of course, that means whatever position they agree with.
        We don't get that in the UK. I just can't see why small business owners would believe their views on anything other than the goods in their stores or their customer service mattered a jot to the general public.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          We don't get that in the UK. I just can't see why small business owners would believe their views on anything other than the goods in their stores or their customer service mattered a jot to the general public.
          Because the States are that divided... I want to say back in 2011 - 12 maybe? Master something Cakeshop or something like that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple due to their ( bakery owners ) religious beliefs - its been downhill ever since - in BOTH directions

          Politically the States are in this wonky stale mate kind of thing where there is a bunch of wiggling around, but nothing being done... Business owners that generally tend to slide towards the fringes in either direction believe they have a "Platform" and should use it... much like Celebrities or Influencers that say some whack none sense thinking people care.

          I think you find this predominantly in small town USA, where people think they are a big fish in a little pond, and what they think and say matters... and as Claude points out, it generally does not work in their favor - BUT its not their fault - or so they will tell you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            I think you find this predominantly in small town USA, where people think they are a big fish in a little pond, and what they think and say matters... and as Claude points out, it generally does not work in their favor - BUT its not their fault - or so they will tell you.
            I get that. If your business has a local monopoly and has been around for generations, I guess you feel part of the fabric of the community and that gives you a responsibility to uphold what you consider to be correct standards.

            Or you could just feel powerless in the face of change and you use whatever platform you have to vent that frustration.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    So I have been looking at "Cancel Culture"... its a thing... something that most of us probably do not have to worry about... Im a pretty public guy... and its not that I am worried about it, I just understand the perils... and have understood the perils for Y E A R S before "Cancel Culture" was a thing.

    Your NOT going to find ME as in ME personally in to many places on the internet. I do have a facebook account... I share few to no photos... I believe last winter I shared a photo of my son and his first snowman.

    None of this is by accident... its been down right calculated for as many years as "Social" has been around...the very concept of a platform on the internet that will exist from here until eternity is just bad things waiting to happen - as history has proven.

    So what exactly is cancel culture? I think I can tell you... it is LEVERGE. The haves, and the have nots. The have nots pick on the haves.

    As an example... Taylor and Rogan... fairly simplistic from the outside looking in right? Taylor says to Spotify... its him or me.. Taylor didnt like the "Misinformation" and whatever.

    The dilemma with all of this... Taylor yanks his music... from the platform that pays the least.. gets people listening to his material, unlike any time in recent history... And then the N word video comes out of no where - and I say this literally.. THAT particular video in the switch over to Spotify was NOT published, and removed from its source ( youtube ) BUT it for some reason could be found on Spotify...

    So lets call this the false flag to get the topic off of Covid, and away from Taylor... and now you have Rogan saying it was in bad taste... Ill do better... and should have been saying Uh dude? ( Spotify ) Why did you release this? But thats not what happened... and the whole time not even half of James Taylors music was taken off of Spotify to begin with - simply because he has no legal say in more than half is Library - kinda like the whole Taylor Swift thing.

    So James Taylor made bank... increase the value of his library.. watch he will be one of the next to sell - once this whole thing dies down for a bit.... Rogan took a hit, but again as Claude mentioned ata "National" level he will do just fine... and Spotify will come out of this just fine..

    and again... So James Taylor could increase his sales... he went at Rogan - and alll of the others that like jumped on the wagon... they will pay a price... because between Taylor, Rogan, and Spotify.. everything is to neat and clean

    Oh and the whatever company offering the 100 Million to Rogan... and ooops it slipped Spotify paid 200 million - come on now

    But anyways... its like this time and again, some turn out better than others Warren vs Musk was pretty classic - classic FAIL - but classic none the less...

    It all comes down to leveraging attention.... Im not getting enough... i will say something mean and get so and so's attention - its all marketing.

    And we have BRANDS... again believe they have a "Platform" and think they should be using it... there are brands I no longer will buy... for some stupid things they have either said or done. North Face comes to mind for rejecting a custom order from a local Natural Gas Company - sold off the few items I had on eBay, and will never buy again - plus that if I was out wearing said brand, I would then be picking sides as it were - the whole thing is just a cluster F Its literally like my days in college that I had to get through 3 sections of the bad part of town in NJ back and forth to College and had two wear 3 layers of colors to get through different neighborhoods, so yeah basically Gang mentality of sorts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      So James Taylor made bank... increase the value of his library.. watch he will be one of the next to sell - once this whole thing dies down for a bit.... Rogan took a hit, but again as Claude mentioned ata "National" level he will do just fine... and Spotify will come out of this just fine..

      and again... So James Taylor could increase his sales... he went at Rogan - and alll of the others that like jumped on the wagon... they will pay a price... because between Taylor, Rogan, and Spotify.. everything is to neat and clean
      James Taylor and other artists that are rebelling against Rogan and taking leaving Spotify?.

      They know their audience. They know they aren't losing many of their fans, with this stunt. It gets their name out, gives their fans a reason to talk about them... actually not a stupid move.

      Entertainers feel the need to be relevant...to stay in the public eye. This is one way.


      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      I get that. If your business has a local monopoly and has been around for generations, I guess you feel part of the fabric of the community and that gives you a responsibility to uphold what you consider to be correct standards.

      Or you could just feel powerless in the face of change and you use whatever platform you have to vent that frustration.
      I think it's more visceral than that.

      In the US, there are people that hate "The other side". And that hatred comes from a primitive part of the brain. And this hatred isn't modified much by reason or empathy.

      The fact that putting political signs out in front of your business (or in advertising) will hurt the business, never enters their mind. I've talked to a few of these people. They cannot believe that anyone would be offended by their rantings. After all, they are just telling "The Truth".


      You said " I guess you feel part of the fabric of the community and that gives you a responsibility to uphold what you consider to be correct standards."

      You are being far too generous and kind.

      There are signs asking all of us to get along. But their voice is weak.


      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      We don't get that in the UK. I just can't see why small business owners would believe their views on anything other than the goods in their stores or their customer service mattered a jot to the general public.

      They don't. They are doing it for personal reasons. It's not to increase sales.

      Although I've seen direct marketers use a political stand (or tell a political joke or insult) to boost sales, if they know that te vast majority of their list is in line with that thinking.

      Marketer Jeff Paul used a dig at the Clintons years ago, in his ads, and that boosted sales. But he knew his audience.

      Perry Belcher sells to the Prepper market, and that market is heavily influenced by political appeals. What's interesting to me is that Belcher has said that he doesn't really think that way at all. It's just marketing.

      An admission that I would never had made.

      I often wonder, when I see these attacks (from any direction, to anyone), how many of these people are actually outraged, or if it's acting.

      You sometimes see a host on a political show get hired by a station with an opposing view. The host immediately changes the way they speak, what they get angry about. Almost a whole different persona. Weird.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        James Taylor and other artists that are rebelling against Rogan and taking leaving Spotify..
        They know their audience. They know they aren't losing many of their fans, with this stunt. It gets their name out, gives their fans a reason to talk about them... actually not a stupid move.
        And it has a snowball effect whereby other artists feel they have to be seen to respond for fear of losing credibility with their fanbase.

        One guy who knows his audience is James Blunt. Aware that his popularity happened in spite of widespread denunciation from music critics, he joined in the fun by tweeting:

        "If @spotify doesn't immediately remove @joerogan, I will release new music onto the platform. #youwerebeautiful"

        My opinion of him rose after that.


        You are being far too generous and kind.
        I guess there's a first time for everything.

        I understand the positioning for those who are in the personality business. It's just weird that small business owners would put their hatred or their egos ahead of any marketing or public relations considerations. They either don't see it that way, or they feel their business exists as a separate entity, immune from the outside world.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          It's just weird that small business owners would put their hatred or their egos ahead of any marketing or public relations considerations. They either don't see it that way, or they feel their business exists as a separate entity, immune from the outside world.
          Honestly, I never asked that in depth of a question.

          I just know that they don't believe it will hurt their business...or they don't care.

          Like the cake bakers that won't sell to a gay wedding. I don't really know the motivations. But I do know, from experience, that these feelings are unconscious and deep seated.

          If you asked them why they are showing such a stance, they will give you the first rational thing they can come up with.

          But the portion of the brain that holds such visceral disgust for another human (or group of humans)...and the part of the brain that thinks rationally....aren't connected.

          For example, in selling. I used to ask people why they didn't buy, when I knew the answer. they never would come out and say the real reason. Why? Because the impulse to buy or not buy is all processed unconsciously.

          They aren't even aware of the factors involved. But when I ask the question, they say something like "Right now, we have so many bills...." because that's the rational thing they came up with first. And I've never been able to dig deeper.

          It's why answering objections in selling almost never works. You are overcoming an objection that isn't real. The feeling they have won't change with logic, no matter how convincing.

          The best selling/marketing/political speeches/slogans appeal to the brain stem, the instinctual part of the brain. Fight or flight, desire, loyalty to the tribe or family, greed, lust ....all the baser instincts are generated there. That's where the prospect's defenses are weakest. That's where the desire to buy or not buy is really made. The verbal exchanges are almost just window dressing.

          I just love hearing myself talk.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    These days, it's not just marketing, as in sending out an email or writing a public blog post, that can get us in "trouble."

    With social media, it's easy for people to look us up and see any posts we've made to the public.

    There are some marketers, some previously from the WF, that I've interacted with, bought from, and generally liked. One guy in particular I have always seen as a fair, common sense guy -- the kind of guy who is genuine and not a BS marketer.

    Then one day, I kind of accidentally wound up on some of their FB profiles. I wasn't looking for them and had never thought to search them out but just happened upon them.

    All those marketers really disappointed me with their absolute nastiness on political points and people. They were all crazy. Just bad. I'm a political guy and talk it with friends and family but we've never been this kind of nasty to the other side's president. And the guy I respected most? He was the "ringleader" egging it all on. Turns out he isn't kind, middle of the road, or common sensical at all in "real life" even though he played that part well for years.

    The question is if a person can be like that in private, does that mean their ebook isn't any good? Or they wouldn't honor a refund? Or they'll lie in their marketing.

    I was shocked the first time I heard Bob Saget's comedy. I had known him as the dad on what's that show's name. But he wasn't anything like what he portrayed in the TV show. Or was he? Which one was the real thing or was it all an act?

    See, I don't think I can act that well if I have to be that way so maybe I can't relate to a multi-sided person. I'm more of a spade is a spade type of guy but I'd give the one opposite me the shirt off my back if needed because I try to be a good human being in relations with others. I think I can give my opinion of gay marriage, for example, but still love, respect, and help someone who was on the other side as long as they were willing to meet me in the middle somewhere and not be in your face kind of nasty about it. The problem is, these days, there is less and less middle and more and more pure hatred on both sides.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Then one day, I kind of accidentally wound up on some of their FB profiles. I wasn't looking for them and had never thought to search them out but just happened upon them.

      All those marketers really disappointed me with their absolute nastiness on political points and people. They were all crazy. Just bad. I'm a political guy and talk it with friends and family but we've never been this kind of nasty to the other side's president. And the guy I respected most? He was the "ringleader" egging it all on. Turns out he isn't kind, middle of the road, or common sensical at all in "real life" even though he played that part well for years.
      Nearly all my friends are business owners and marketers.

      I've noticed the same thing on Facebook.

      My theory is that in every aspect of their life except politics, they are the same decent people. But the vast majority of "News" shows are now very heavily biased in one direction or another. and several are on a different planet.

      If you listen to these hosts, you begin to believe what they are saying, and that it's normal.

      But their listeners are still the same people. Decent loving, fair minded. They are just believing in an alternative reality.

      And the nastiness? If you hold extreme political or religious beliefs, anything that pokes fun (or worse) at your enemy is accepted. We all have a nasty side. Some of us bury it so deep it never surfaces. Some of us don't hide it as well.

      Nearly every day, I talk to at least one person that is stable, kind, fair, responsible....and if the conversation happens to slip into religion or politics, they start saying things that I wouldn't have thought that they would ever believe.


      To them, it's normal conversation...common sense. It's just the way our brains are built.

      Bob Saget? His TV show and stand up comedy are the same. They are both acting. His comedy isn't the real him. Part of the reason he is vulgar in his comedy is the shock it gives, because people remember the part he played on TV.



      Added later;
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      The problem is, these days, there is less and less middle and more and more pure hatred on both sides.

      Mark
      Mark;

      A few things we may want to consider.

      We usually see two sides to any issue...and those two sides are fighting.

      The "Truth" is almost never displayed by either side. One is not 100% right, and the other side 100% wrong.

      And the truth is almost never in the middle. In fact, it's often unknown at all by either side. Meeting in the middle seldom gets us to reality.

      Reason is never found on the line between two opposing angry minds.

      And the truth is never found between two lies.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    They know their audience. They know they aren't losing many of their fans, with this stunt. It gets their name out, gives their fans a reason to talk about them... actually not a stupid move.
    I totally agree... I personally do not use Spotify because if I am going to listen to Artist I want to support.. why would I use the platform that pays them the least... and in that supplies the worst audio quality - BA in Electronic Engineering - yeah I got a nice stereo and want premium sound files thank you!

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    The fact that putting political signs out in front of your business (or in advertising) will hurt the business, never enters their mind. I've talked to a few of these people. They cannot believe that anyone would be offended by their rantings. After all, they are just telling "The Truth".
    the 60's and 70's were turbulent times much like today... pretty much the same crap - History repeating itself... and then... Jimmy Carter and the hostages in Iran? Yellow ribbons everywhere.

    The States are so charged right now... I personally cant wrap my head around it... we are mostly all older here... when was the last presidential election you saw that had signs out a year and a half after the fact? We haven't right? Its nutso crazy... we need a yellow ribbon moment, and things are so polarized it just isnt going to happen at the national / govt level... its going to take a natural disaster of epic proportions out of anyones control at this point - to bring any amount of unity across political divide.

    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

    It's just weird that small business owners would put their hatred or their egos ahead of any marketing or public relations considerations. They either don't see it that way, or they feel their business exists as a separate entity, immune from the outside world.
    The people I talk with - and I live in a pretty red state... believe they are helping their business - as much as the "Believe" in whatever side they are on... they Believe they are leveraging a group of people to choose them over others.

    You head South and you see the suttle signs of religion on much of the marketing, be it signs or Menus or business cards etc. I could almost argue that Politics has become dare I say it.. Religion. I wont get into the overall thought of that.. butI am sure many can connect the dots.

    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    Then one day, I kind of accidentally wound up on some of their FB profiles.
    I have this kinda strict personal code... the less I know, the better I am. And that might get followed up with the less i share, the better you and I are.

    When I sell stuff on Facebook market place, the first question out of my wifes mouth "Where do they live?" I don't look... cuz I don't care, and I don't want to know... and the moment she looks... there is usually some stereo typical response that follows.

    Sometimes tho.... the other day someone was interested in a TV cabinet I am pulling out of a house we are renovating... 48x48x30 A big F ing cabinet.. and the person interested was coming from a maybe slightly less than ideal area, and my wife said "I bet the show up with a little tiny car.. and guess what.. a 2 door honda civic from the 90's. Needless to say they didn't take the cabinet "it looked smaller in the pictures" she said "I saw the measurements, but it looked smaller"

    I use social media almost exclusively for business - if its personal... you will get a phone call or a text. Social Media and personal use is just trouble waiting to happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      You head South and you see the suttle signs of religion on much of the marketing, be it signs or Menus or business cards etc. I could almost argue that Politics has become dare I say it.. Religion. I wont get into the overall thought of that.. but I am sure many can connect the dots.
      In my county, it's very conservative and very religious. More so than the whole state.

      I'm not joking, instead of asking "What do you do for a living?", I often hear "Hi, what church do you attend?". That's how you are categorized. That's just what's in their mind.

      Here is a reality. If my actual thoughts ever became public, I would lose maybe 95% of my friends, and my business would end. We all wear masks.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    Well, that thread aged rather poorly. I have bad news everyone that is opposed to cancellation: the whole of Mother Russia just got canceled.



    It's time to go to the barricades.


    I'm no economist, but I figure it will take buying a lot of little russian flags to support a currency that lost 30% of its value overnight.

    Not to mention Russian banks also got canceled

    Fear not, brave defender of decency: the carrier pigeon remains a perfect vehicle of delivery for your hard-earned monies since the time of Peter the Great.

    kwik kwik! u must turn ur pickup truck and retail businesses into mobile pigeon coops.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Well, that thread aged rather poorly. I have bad news everyone that is opposed to cancellation: the whole of Mother Russia just got canceled.
      This whole dilemma is interesting... On one side you have this evil vile man, and on the other, you have the great reset... If the evil vile man gives in and not a single shot is fired ( by the West ) - the reset is all but said and done - Prices will go higher... freedoms will be lost... liberty will be lost, and the pursuit of happiness? will not be tolerated.

      We The People... will not, and cannot win either way.

      The harshest of sanctions ever placed on a country belong to Iran.. and what is being thrown at Russia makes those look like childs play... we are seeing something never seen before... Private industry and Govt working together... absolute disruption in how things have worked... there is no balance in this - and once they have an inch... they will acquire a mile.
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