Is Gary V. Right or Wrong?

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I just came across this in my FB feed. If you don't want to click the link, here's the quote by the famous guru:

No amount of marketing is going to sell a bad product.
Is he right or wrong?

Mark
#gary #wrong
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    I am still trying to figure out how MyPillow guy went from crack addict to Billionaire. Infomercials?

    What product are the Kardashians exactly? If you have the following a product comes later sometimes.

    So that particular quote in my opinion does not hold water.

    Have you seen some NFTs? It is not the product in many cases.

    If we go back to some Sales Pages and the promises they make heck we should all be Multi-Millionaires if those products did what they say.

    Remember the Year 2000 Survival Kits for $20? Still makes me smile.

    Sometimes one good catchphrase in business or politics can dominate. Wendys..."Wheres The Beef?!

    Wheaties....Breakfast of Champions.
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  • Profile picture of the author WF- Enzo
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    When is a product bad?
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Originally Posted by WF- Enzo View Post

      When is a product bad?
      Knockoffs first come to mind.

      Or when it is not even a product.

      Rug Pulls.

      A rug pull is a type of scam where developers abandon a project and take their investors' money.

      Also high refunds. Bad management.

      Was reading about a recall of Deodorant that may cause CANCER recently.

      I once bought some Acne Product I think it was called Pro Active. And it actually caused acne for me. (And I think they knew this already for some people) But they were very very good with refunding.
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  • Profile picture of the author atiqa89
    Gary V. is Wrong
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  • Profile picture of the author spartan14
    I am not 100% percent sure ,it depends more on how you know to sell
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Absolutely 100% true.

    New Coke.

    Clear Coke...and all the clear drinks.

    The list goes on...

    All the money thrown at a bad product WILL NOT make it successful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Absolutely 100% true.

      New Coke.

      Clear Coke...and all the clear drinks.

      The list goes on...

      All the money thrown at a bad product WILL NOT make it successful.

      But have you been blindfolded and tested?

      Actually I never drink soda but I am sure to someone that it is a part of their lives will know better.

      I was watching a video of a guy with mansion in Beverly Hills had a Tequila tasting with friends and their favorite was a Phallic shaped bottle and when I did a search for it and looked up reviews everyone was saying it tasted like a soda flavor.
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

        But have you been blindfolded and tested?

        Actually I never drink soda but I am sure to someone that it is a part of their lives will know better.

        I was watching a video of a guy with mansion in Beverly Hills had a Tequila tasting with friends and their favorite was a Phallic shaped bottle and when I did a search for it and looked up reviews everyone was saying it tasted like a soda flavor.
        In marketing a product there are universal rules that apply.

        In the food/drink industry, looks are key...

        the first look is important.

        There's a whole science around what grabs your attention in the supermarket.

        It IS possible to change the science, but, you need a lot of money and a lot of social acceptance. If you can't get social acceptance early, you've lost.

        With Coke, I'm guessing nobody but nobody saw the reason for going new...or for the drinks that went clear.

        When marketing a product you have to move the needle of acceptance past the tipping point.

        Some products are just too much before their time.

        Some products are just not needed by anyone.

        Some products just don't make sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
        Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

        But have you been blindfolded and tested?
        When Camilla Straightlace first discovered this EVIL afoot in the world, naturally she was inspired to create The Protective Moms Network to serve as a bulwark against moral corruption.

        Meanwhile, Sally Fatespace said, "yeah, OK -- an' can we go for pizza after?"

        It is a lush consequence of our supremely interactive diversitood that GOOD an' BAD hits on all shades.

        Choose yr weappins wisely, I guess.

        WHO wants WHAT?

        Figure this, you can quit throwin' penguin-friendly slivers of fish at prematyoore babies born at near-death numbahs of weeks.

        Them poor sweeties prolly gonna choke tuh death an' die, but the penguins will surely hurl 'emselves uponya till you bruised dark as a demon's heart if'n you gaht piscostuffs they wanna.

        It is troo how sellin' stuff nowan wants is real tricky (eg we burnin' up the plannit & plenty gatta change so undersea microbes don't choke on microplastics), but we must also drink deep on the craziness of wantness out there rn.

        Vibrant an' byootiful beings wanna step out sweet 'pon their planetary home.

        Who says they cannot, zackly?

        Camilla Straightlace says, "This is exactly the kind of woolly-headed thinking that is leading us all into perpetual demise."

        So: what's your viewpoint on bein' stymied by circumstances beyond your control, O readah of this post?

        I gaht no view on Gary V othah than' he should shave more regulah.

        I do naht enjoy beards, plus moreso eithah accidental or cultivated sub-versions therefrickinof.

        Tellya, lickin' nuthin' don't gotta become no exercise in exfoliation by default.

        Hoomankind is way joosier than that.

        Uh huh, so mebbe this is my POINT.

        Ima checkin' out datin' sites for my perfickto BEARDLESS Cumberbatch/Damon fusion.

        (It is a SCENARIO ... naht simply bcs I DESPRIT.)

        Which is when WILL shows up.

        As in ... same name as a poet I kinda adore.

        Only prahblem is, non-poet IRL Will gaht a beard so long he trips up evrywan in his slipstream.

        "My grandmother trimmed my beard before she was devoured by wolves in 2010. Do not expect me to change to suit your fancy. I also have a thing for swallowing paperclips. Let me lie down at your feet while you raid the local stationery store for the succor to inspire my lust."

        tbh gonna pass on Will despite he gaht srs class in othah areahs.

        (As I undahstand stuffs, snortin' cerebrospinal flooids through the barrels of historic weaponry is now sum kinda bloodsport.)

        Products. Services. Ideahs.

        What is for sale rn, zackly?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamell
    I think that statement us subjective and also depends on your target audience .
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    I just came across this in my FB feed. If you don't want to click the link, here's the quote by the famous guru:



    Is he right or wrong?

    Mark
    He's wrong. (assuming there was no additional context) Marketing and selling can sell anything. People can be convinced of anything.

    Now....it may be that the sales are made by lying to the customer.....or dramatically misrepresenting what they will get for their money....

    I would agree that "No amount of marketing will sell a bad product over time"

    Yes, I just quoted myself.

    Anyone can be fooled once. But sustained wealth isn't built by bilking your buyers.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      He's wrong. (assuming there was no additional context) Marketing and selling can sell anything. People can be convinced of anything.

      Now....it may be that the sales are made by lying to the customer.....or dramatically misrepresenting what they will get for their money....

      I would agree that "No amount of marketing will sell a bad product over time"

      Yes, I just quoted myself.

      Anyone can be fooled once. But sustained wealth isn't built by bilking your buyers.
      I appreciate your comment, but, I think there are a whole lot of companies that would disagree.

      Now, where we may differ is what we call "good money".

      If I'm selling a bad course and make $1000, I may think that's great.

      If I'm a corporation and I'm losing millions trying to advertise a bad product...
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


        If I'm selling a bad course and make $1000, I may think that's great.

        If I'm a corporation and I'm losing millions trying to advertise a bad product...
        And if you sold the bad course for $1000, it would quickly be all over the internet what a jerk you were. You would also never get joint venture partners, and your credit card processor would drop you after a few disputed charges. And...your refunds would be through the roof. So it wouldn't be sustainable.

        Large companies don't become large by selling bad product.

        A large corporation could certainly make sales of a bad product. But it would quickly cost them more in bad publicity and refunds...... and repeat sales would dry up.

        So I think we would agree that it's never a good idea to sell something worthless, no matter who you are or how big your business is.
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        • Profile picture of the author max5ty
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          And if you sold the bad course for $1000, it would quickly be all over the internet what a jerk you were. You would also never get joint venture partners, and your credit card processor would drop you after a few disputed charges. And...your refunds would be through the roof. So it wouldn't be sustainable.

          Large companies don't become large by selling bad product.

          A large corporation could certainly make sales of a bad product. But it would quickly cost them more in bad publicity and refunds...... and repeat sales would dry up.

          So I think we would agree that it's never a good idea to sell something worthless, no matter who you are or how big your business is.
          I might have said that wrong...

          I didn't mean to sell one course for $1000. I meant make $1000 total if the course was say $10.

          I agree large companies don't become profitable by selling bad products...

          but they do sometimes try. Like my new coke example, or the whole clear drinks thing that they tried to make popular.

          We read about companies pulling the plug on a product because sales just didn't happen the way they wanted and they decided to quit throwing money at it.
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        • Profile picture of the author boblev
          Agreed...it's not even wise to give away something worthless!


          Peace


          Bob
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Great insights all around.

    Once you do the marketing/presentation and benefits...

    You can sell thousands of "Journal" entry books with empty pages in them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    Is he right or wrong?
    If by "bad product", he means one that's substandard or not fit for purpose, he might have a point. But otherwise the term "bad" is usually subjective - and opinions get altered by creative marketing.

    In his book "Alchemy", Rory Sutherland cites the example of Red Bull which, when first launched in Thailand, garnered the worst ever tasting results from consumers. People didn't just dislike it - they called it disgusting and compared it to cat's pee. However, after some creative reframing, the drink - much more expensive than its rivals, packaged in smaller cans, and carrying a health warning about over consumption - became one of the major soft drinks success stories in recent decades.

    "There is nothing good or bad but marketing makes it so." As Shakespeare (nearly) said.
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    He is wrong. Bad is subjective, as many have already said. But every kind of bad and useless product can be sold by changing perception and by presenting ads for it long enough.


    The thing to keep in mind is: can enough of the bad product be sold to make sense for the seller?


    If that's what he means, history has proven him right in some cases and wrong in others.


    There's a guy who bought a house on a cliff in California in an area where part of the cliff fell in the ocean and the part his house sits on is going to go into the ocean within 6 years.


    A bad product, if you ask me. He said, nah, I'm getting 6 years of prime ocean view and a great layout. Sure worth the $700k.


    It was 700k because there were a few other people like him, bidding on it.


    The agent who came up with, Get it before it's gone, instead of, See your money go up in smoke, made good money selling what is, in my opinion, a lousy product. (The house is in Pacifica, California.)



    By the way, pet rocks, it seems, made someone good money. It was never a good product, in my humble opinion, but Wikipedia says they made someone a millionaire (Pet Rock is a collectible toy made in 1975 by advertising executive Gary Dahl. Pet Rocks are smooth stones from the city of Rosarito, Baja California, Mexico.[1] They were marketed like live pets, in custom cardboard boxes,[1] complete with straw and breathing holes.[2] The fad lasted about six months, ending after a short increase in sales during the Christmas season of December 1975. Although by February 1976 they were discounted due to lower sales, Dahl sold over 1 million Pet Rocks for $4 each,[1] and became a millionaire.)


    That was just good marketing and a bit of luck (right time).
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post




      By the way, pet rocks, it seems, made someone good money. It was never a good product, in my humble opinion, but Wikipedia says they made someone a millionaire (Pet Rock is a collectible toy made in 1975 by advertising executive Gary Dahl. Pet Rocks are smooth stones from the city of Rosarito, Baja California, Mexico.[1] They were marketed like live pets, in custom cardboard boxes,[1] complete with straw and breathing holes.[2] The fad lasted about six months, ending after a short increase in sales during the Christmas season of December 1975. Although by February 1976 they were discounted due to lower sales, Dahl sold over 1 million Pet Rocks for $4 each,[1] and became a millionaire.)


      That was just good marketing and a bit of luck (right time).
      That's not a bad example. And the tabloids (and any online platform) are stuffed with offers that no sane person would believe or want. What they all have in common is a good story. A story that resonated with the buyer.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        It gets even more interesting when it's not a bad product but one that sells for waaaay too much.


        Like the cane on ebay that went for 60 or 70k because the story behind it (belonged to grandpa, grandpa died, 6 year-old grandson sees grandpa's ghost... something like that). So, an average product (or maybe a good one, as far as canes go, becomes an amazing paranatural product.)



        And what do you do with the guy who sold an air guitar on ebay for $5? They got 5 bucks, so they sold something though they delivered nothing!



        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        That's not a bad example. And the tabloids (and any online platform) are stuffed with offers that no sane person would believe or want. What they all have in common is a good story. A story that resonated with the buyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    A lot of good and varying points.

    I think he's wrong. Sometimes.

    In a case like New Coke or Clear Pepsi (or was it clear Coke?), people can see the product being sold and they immediately know it's different and may have doubts. Not to mention the taste tests. A house which can be visited, that has rotting floors and walls eaten up with termites may have be a tough sale. But all of those things can be seen or tested before the sale.

    On the other hand, a digital course or a membership site that is dripped out over three months or a locked forum or coaching or a doctor's treatment all could be absolutely terrible and yet be sold because they can't be examined in depth before the purchase. A whole crapload of money could be made with a good advertising budget and a pretty picture on the cover. I mean, how would anyone know the product was bad before purchasing it? Yes, some would refund but the stats show that refunds even for bad products are pretty low.

    But would it last? In some cases, no and in some cases yes. There is a place near where I live that sells some of the worst noodles (Chinese style) that can be imagined. There is zero flavor, and I have no clue why anyone would go back there to eat again. But they do. And, not only that, every day there are long lines to get in. It's crazy, but they have good marketing that is selling a bad tasting product and have done this for years. They thrive on it.

    There was a "confession" by a supposed WF guru type many years ago. I forget all the details, but basically, he admitted he had many logins and sold WSOs until they quit selling and then he'd switch IDs and sell something else. Doing this, he made a ton of money. Not a lasting business, but as Gordon points out, sometimes people just want money and not a business.

    So, I think he's right in some cases and wrong in other cases.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      I mean, how would anyone know the product was bad before purchasing it? Yes, some would refund but the stats show that refunds even for bad products are pretty low.

      But would it last? In some cases, no and in some cases yes.
      Years ago, I sold air purifiers with a friend of mine.

      At the time, he was the single biggest distributor of these air purifiers in the world.
      It was a million dollar a year business (in profits, not just sales). This as maybe the 1990s or so.

      Anyway, the air purifiers ionized the air and created a small amount of ozone to kill bacteria and germs. The machine was about a foot square, had a fan and a couple lights on it.

      After I sold them for a year or so, I was at a sales meeting my friend put on.
      Customer after customer told us about how this air purifier was a miracle and was changing their lives....and that's why they sold them. to save their fellow buyers.

      After I heard all the "testimonials' from customers, I learned a few things, and told my friend afterwards...

      "About 25% of the people that buy these from you or me...say they can't feel any effects, and get a refund (about $600). About 50% just keep it and talk about minor effects. About 25% say that the machine is a life saver and even cured them of various diseases.

      I'm convinced that if we just built an empty box, attached an electrical cord, and had a couple lights on the front with a fan to make some minor noise....we would get exactly the same results, the same sales, and the same customer stories."

      He thought about it for a few seconds and said "I believe that".

      It was evidence (to me) that we can convince ourselves of anything, to see what we need to see, to make ourselves feel good about what we do.
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      • Profile picture of the author ashtondunhill
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        "About 25% of the people that buy these from you or me...say they can't feel any effects, and get a refund (about $600).
        Delete this group from your list


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        About 50% just keep it and talk about minor effects.
        Put this group into a longer funnel segueing into another niche



        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        About 25% say that the machine is a life saver and even cured them of various diseases.
        Put this group on your buyers list and sell them every miracle machine that you can find.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by ashtondunhill View Post

          Delete this group from your list



          Put this group into a longer funnel segueing into another niche




          Put this group on your buyers list and sell them every miracle machine that you can find.
          That's the right advice. But we weren't actually going to create a dummy product. It was just a comment between friends.
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          • Profile picture of the author ashtondunhill
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            That's the right advice. But we weren't actually goin to create a dummy product. It was just a comment between friends.

            I knew that I was being facetious
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        "About 25% of the people that buy these from you or me...say they can't feel any effects, and get a refund (about $600). About 50% just keep it and talk about minor effects. About 25% say that the machine is a life saver and even cured them of various diseases.
        Are those your real-life numbers? A 25% refund rate sounds high but maybe I'm off because I don't sell hard goods.

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          Are those your real-life numbers? A 25% refund rate sounds high but maybe I'm off because I don't sell hard goods.
          Claude was talking about air purifiers. I can understand those figures when a product relies to a large extent on benefits that are intangible and has to counter a degree of scepticism in the market.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          Are those your real-life numbers? A 25% refund rate sounds high but maybe I'm off because I don't sell hard goods.

          Mark
          Sure they are real numbers. These weren't my personal numbers, but the company numbers. The air purifiers were sold with a 2 week money back guarantee. Much of the selling was around "Try it risk free".

          That's why the refunds were so high. But that's also why the sales were so high.

          You may find this interesting.

          We used to sell these air purifiers with a "Three day free trial". They paid nothing up front, and we charged their card the fourth day if they didn't return it. 75% would return it.

          We changed it to a "Two week safe ownership". They paid up front, and had two weeks to return it for a refund. Only 25% returned the air purifier. Same price, same product. The difference? They paid up front with the "Two weeks safe ownership"

          When they didn't pay up front, they thought they were borrowing it...or at best "Trying it out".

          The other way, they felt that they bought it up front. That's the difference.

          Personally, I had a less than 5% refund rate, but I sold well. And they knew exactly what to expect with the purifier. I didn't promise miracles. And I explained the process the purifiers used so they knew what they were buying.

          Another reason there was a 25% refund rate (in general) was because the people selling these purifiers weren't salespeople. This was a network marketing company. The returns were largely from the "salesperson" making ridiculous claims, or stressing the free returns.

          This is one of the many really useful things I learned from Julius Toth.


          Added later; One winter, we rented a 10X10 foot space in a mall for $150 a day. It was Christmas shopping, and I sold these air purifiers for $699 at the mall.

          I swear, I averaged between 15 and 20 sales a day. Almost no refunds. I averaged about $3,000 a day in profit. (after Toth and I split the profits)

          It's been so long ago, I can't remember now why we stopped.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Ha ― great quotation Mark. : )

    I think for the most part it's true ... However I also think it depends on the definition/context of "Bad Product."

    Someone made well over $1 Million selling rocks Lol ... (AKA "The Pet Rock") Although I suppose you could argue that's a "Good" product?

    Something I remember reading from John Reese several years ago is that selling "junk" can make a Person wealthy: For example, they have a underperforming Sales Letter and and sup par Product ― where they receive lots of refunds (etc.) ― yet still make a lot of money because of the Traffic/numbers.

    All that said, I agree with Gary V's quotation. If you want spectacular success (including a successful Marketing Campaign) you're going to have to create ― and/or sell ― something that has a lot of value. Something that People really want.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    What's a bad product? Some bad products sell themselves. Drugs, prostitution, $1.00 harsh toilet paper.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      What's a bad product? Some bad products sell themselves. Drugs, prostitution, $1.00 harsh toilet paper.
      Lol. Good point. I suppose the "definition" would be a Product that People don't want to buy.

      Thoughts?

      P.S. Sometimes a Person won't know if a Product/Venture/etc. is successful until they "test" it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        Lol. Good point. I suppose the "definition" would be a Product that People don't want to buy.

        Thoughts?

        P.S. Sometimes a Person won't know if a Product/Venture/etc. is successful until they "test" it.
        Bad products could definitely be subjective no doubt.

        But like "weight loss niche" everyone prefers a fantastical shortcut over doing the work.

        A belt that will "shock" my abs into a 6 pack? Sure!

        But not long ago if you said there is a "little blue pill" that can make you superman in the bedroom who would have believed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author zenaeastin
    Banned
    Absolutely 100% corrent
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  • Profile picture of the author itsLouisJohn
    It all depends on the culture in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    His opinion is his opinion.

    Just because he is well known and famous, does not mean he is RIGHT and knows everything.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashtondunhill
    I think a good marketer could sell just about any product. But, if that marketer sells you a really bad product then he/she will probably not be able to sell you any more products. Even if they are really good.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    The question you have to ask yourself BEFORE you sell it to someone else.

    "Would I sell this to my mom/dad/family and will it benefit them?"

    If the answer is NO, don't sell it just to sell it.
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