Why is contacting a "Guru" near impossible?

by waltervs 82 replies
Just a thought that occurred to me the other day...

Why is that almost every IM Guru who preaches the benefits of building relationships with customers and, by implication, engendering an atmosphere of trust etc. etc. then goes about making it well nigh impossible to contact them directly by email and completely impossible to do so by phone?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #contacting #guru #impossible
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124513].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    Trust me. If you have something they want, getting in touch with them is easy

    I've sent my share of newbie contact messages before and received the usual stone walling response but when I've produced something of great value they been battering my door down.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124516].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    I'm not too sure what your experiences are but I've not had difficulty in getting responses to emails from the ones I've tried. Sometimes their blogs or even this forum is another way that they communicate.

    I'm not too surprised that phone contact is harder as there are efficiency issues around taking calls but some advertise phone or skype numbers even so.

    Peter
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124521].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    Originally Posted by waltervs View Post

    Just a thought that occurred to me the other day...

    Why is that almost every IM Guru who preaches the benefits of building relationships with customers and, by implication, engendering an atmosphere of trust etc. etc. then goes about making it well nigh impossible to contact them directly by email and completely impossible to do so by phone?
    Could be they get innundated with emails, phone calls etc if they don't become more distanced. (Some folks think they own you on the Internet)

    Most of them have a help desk monitored by minions where you can contact them. If you are considered worthy, they may respond personally lol

    Kim
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124531].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    Probably because they're more concerned lining their pockets with your cash than actually spending time with their customers, it's happening more and more every day and it's getting out of hand.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124535].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by askloz View Post

      Probably because they're more concerned lining their pockets with your cash than actually spending time with their customers, it's happening more and more every day and it's getting out of hand.
      I think you're in the wrong forum- the Karl Marx club is across the street.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125820].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

        I think you're in the wrong forum- the Karl Marx club is across the street.
        lmfao... Chris you rock!!!

        Peace

        Jay
        Signature

        Bare Murkage.........

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125838].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by askloz View Post

      Probably because they're more concerned lining their pockets with your cash than actually spending time with their customers, it's happening more and more every day and it's getting out of hand.

      Spoken like someone who's never had to handle more than 10 customers at once...

      When you have 1,000 - 10,000 or even more, I'll bet your thought process will change dramatically.

      Mike
      Signature

      Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126620].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        Spoken like someone who's never had to handle more than 10 customers at once...

        When you have 1,000 - 10,000 or even more, I'll bet your thought process will change dramatically.

        Mike
        Exactly what I was going to say. I used to think the same way back in the day when I had a couple hundred customers. Once I started spending 8 to 10 hours a day responding to emails I knew I had to find a more efficient way of handling them.

        At some point it becomes impossible to read every single email, IM, snail mail, etc. that comes your way. Like Michael Jordan once said "You try to reach out to as many people as you can, but you can't get to all of them....some of them won't understand.....".

        RoD
        Signature
        "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
        - Jim Rohn
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126646].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        When you have 1,000 - 10,000 or even more, I'll bet your thought process will change dramatically.
        I doubt things will ever get to that level of success.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126821].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by askloz View Post

      Probably because they're more concerned lining their pockets with your cash than actually spending time with their customers, it's happening more and more every day and it's getting out of hand.
      AHAH that`s a joke, right?

      How do you expect them to keep in personal contact with 50,000 people plus? If you would stop and think logically for a minute (I think that's what's really getting out of hand... no one stops to think) how successful do you think a business would be if the CEO did nothing all day but field phone calls and answer emails? HELLO!

      Mike Hill
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126654].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    Well, think about it this way:

    You have 10,000+ people on one of your lists - so you think you will have enough time to reply to EACH personal e-mail from them?... And now imagine many of these gurus have 100,000+ people on the list!

    There are a few other IM forums that I'm an an active member of, I get at least 10-15 daily PM's! Even if I wanted to - I couldn't reply to them all, and I am not a GURU of any sort...
    Signature
    Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
    The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124575].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author askloz
      Yep, and if you provide good enough online resources with a very comprehensive FAQ, reduces the overall questions asked.

      100,000 or so, well that could be a different matter, but to have a no-reply in their emails is just poor customer service, they should have a auto-ticket system for emails and should get answered by HIRED staff, if they don't hire staff to take care of the questions they don't deserve to be in the Marketing Industry completely ignoring those who lined their pockets with our cash.

      Any ways, each to their own I suppose, I've never had a problem with a list size of over 24,000 people and reply to each and every single email I get.

      Originally Posted by kiev View Post

      Well, think about it this way:

      You have 10,000+ people on one of your lists - so you think you will have enough time to reply to EACH personal e-mail from them?... And now imagine many of these gurus have 100,000+ people on the list!

      There are a few other IM forums that I'm an an active member of, I get at least 10-15 daily PM's! Even if I wanted to - I couldn't reply to them all, and I am not a GURU of any sort...
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124683].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author naruq
        When you have something of value a guru will try to contact you multiple times.
        Signature

        Please do not use affiliate links in signatures

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124690].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author vorales
      Originally Posted by kiev View Post

      Well, think about it this way:

      You have 10,000+ people on one of your lists - so you think you will have enough time to reply to EACH personal e-mail from them?... And now imagine many of these gurus have 100,000+ people on the list!

      There are a few other IM forums that I'm an an active member of, I get at least 10-15 daily PM's! Even if I wanted to - I couldn't reply to them all, and I am not a GURU of any sort...
      Well i guess i agree with what Kiev had said about the GURU'S.

      They might have long long long list of people which is not easy for them to contact by them self ,but instead they have an system where you send them the mails to there Help Desk and they take care for all your queries and problems.

      Kiev you will be a GURU one day.......... i m sure .....
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125030].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author crystalq
    Cos there out spending your money LOL
    (Note to "serious people" I am making a joke)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124619].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jnapier
      This is a hoot...I was just thinking about all the emails I'm going to be getting about all those bonuses from the Stompernet program. Then, I began to wonder how many email the "guru" gets and how many they actually see???

      Jay NaPier

      P.S. - Seems many of these folks are work a holics? Maybe they spend all their time reading email and they pay people to make their products??
      Signature

      Do LIVE webinars on FACEBOOK... Yes, you can attract an audience for your webinar on Facebook MeetCheap

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124662].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jhongren
      I think it is a general statement to conclude that gurus are hard to contact. I feel it would be more constructive to ask where do they normally hang out or who do they hang out with.

      Is it easier to get in touch with their friends who we may know? Don't misunderstand me as in we make friends just to get near to the gurus.

      Be genuine and build long term relationship.

      Personally I have made many friends with local gurus and I am being mentored by a few of them, some local and others are from overseas.

      They are still human beings afterall and it is easy to find them.

      Now we have internet to get access to them. Twitter and facebook makes it so easy to find them.

      Sometimes buying their products, being in their list, joining their forums are some of the ways to contact them.

      There are many ways. It is a matter of if you want to do it or not.

      Cheers,
      John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124664].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author davemiz
        most people are busy, trying to get work done. Plus a LOT of the emails we get are from people just trying to GET. Very few offer any value first.

        "give with the leading hand."

        About the comments, they're lining up their pockets with your cash?

        what kind of crap is that?

        Thats the most retarded statement ever.

        you are marketers, YOU are their customer. so, if they're lining their pockets with your cash....

        that means YOU are buying from them.

        makes no sense.

        save the 'guru bashing', its lame.
        Signature

        “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
        ― Dalai Lama XIV

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124691].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Maybe because they have 24 hrs in a day like everyone else - they are producing products, managing sites, building a business. The more well known their name is, the more email they receive.

      If you use the right path (the help desk) and ask valid questions- you should have a response. If you bypass the system they have set up and/or are asking questions that don't relate to the marketer's business, you may be ignored. Time management is the reason.

      Phone contact is even more time consuming than emails. Having a relationship with customers doesn't translate to being available personally every time someone wants to chat.

      kay
      Signature

      Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124680].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Maybe because they have 24 hrs in a day like everyone else - they are producing products, managing sites, building a business. The more well known their name is, the more email they receive.

        If you use the right path (the help desk) and ask valid questions- you should have a response. If you bypass the system they have set up and/or are asking questions that don't relate to the marketer's business, you may be ignored. Time management is the reason.

        Phone contact is even more time consuming than emails. Having a relationship with customers doesn't translate to being available personally every time someone wants to chat.

        kay
        Exactly

        I see the usual guru bashing going on (sigh), and yes of course they are all out to fleece you! (Jeeze)

        Maybe, just maybe if you tried emulating what they do instead of bashing them, you would learn something

        Kim
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125053].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    Originally Posted by waltervs View Post

    Just a thought that occurred to me the other day...

    Why is that almost every IM Guru who preaches the benefits of building relationships with customers and, by implication, engendering an atmosphere of trust etc. etc. then goes about making it well nigh impossible to contact them directly by email and completely impossible to do so by phone?
    Give us an example.

    I've been in contact with many "gurus" without any trouble.

    But consider this...

    When you have an issue with your car do you expect to get personal contact from the CEO of the company? Why should IM be any different?
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124720].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author waltervs
    Thank you All!

    It is great to see such a range of views.

    Of course I understand the time pressures the Gods of the Internet are under.

    But when they are about to launch a new product, they are only too happy to email me - several times a day it seems!

    However, when I want to ask a question - say about all those bonus offers that I am supposed to get - even the helpdesk seems to slow down. And then when I do get a response, to which I reply, the next thing to appear is the dreaded failure notice!


    Perhaps this is how an ant feels when I go past!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124732].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jhongren
      Originally Posted by waltervs View Post

      Thank you All!

      It is great to see such a range of views.

      Of course I understand the time pressures the Gods of the Internet are under.

      But when they are about to launch a new product, they are only too happy to email me - several times a day it seems!

      However, when I want to ask a question - say about all those bonus offers that I am supposed to get - even the helpdesk seems to slow down. And then when I do get a response, to which I reply, the next thing to appear is the dreaded failure notice!


      Perhaps this is how an ant feels when I go past!
      You will never know you will become the next guru.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124751].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Peggy Baron
        Before I knew who the gurus were, I was able to contact quite a few of them through their help desks. Of course, some questions were answered by the help desk helpers, but some of the helpers forwarded the emails on to the marketer's private email and then the marketer answered me directly.

        If I want to get ahold of someone and there's a help desk, I use it. That way I know my email didn't end up in their spam traps.

        Peggy
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124796].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author waltervs
        Not very likely (but thanks for the kind thought)!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124798].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
          Most times I have seen a system in place for contacting people. A lot of times those systems work, not always, but mostly. And some people feel that because they bought something from someone, that gives them automatic privilege to contact them whenever they want.

          I managed to irritate my wife last week becuse I took on another offline client after a 2 year vacation from when I fired the last client in my bookings. I had to actually explain to him that it was not appropriate to call me on Sunday night at 9:00 PM. Fortunately I suspect that won't happen again.

          I am definitely not interested in irritating my wife.
          Signature


          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[124834].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
            Originally Posted by JMichaelZ View Post

            Most times I have seen a system in place for contacting people. A lot of times those systems work, not always, but mostly. And some people feel that because they bought something from someone, that gives them automatic privilege to contact them whenever they want.

            I managed to irritate my wife last week becuse I took on another offline client after a 2 year vacation from when I fired the last client in my bookings. I had to actually explain to him that it was not appropriate to call me on Sunday night at 9:00 PM. Fortunately I suspect that won't happen again.

            I am definitely not interested in irritating my wife.
            :p lol - I agree with too much of this LOL!

            (First - never intentionally irritate the wife... :p:p )

            On the other, while I recognize people wanting to be in touch, its important to follow what the contact requests are.

            I had a client pull something like yours - except it was at all times, day or night. I have voice mail on my biz line so it went to record after I was out of the office for the night, but the call times were unbelievable. (I'm talking 11 pm - and we were on the same time zone).

            Then he expected far beyond what I was willing to help with - I made the mistake of saying I'd assist in helping him create an ad (he paid for an ad package) but that turned into creating ads, and heck while I'm at it, why not customize his reseller website and connect his payment pages too while I was at it??

            Sorry. Sarcasm... getting off the point.

            I had given him my Yahoo IM to contact me because we had email issues (Or he was just too impatient to allow me more than 2 hrs for a reply...) three months later the guy was still trying to get me to do things and if I didn't answer, blasted me for "not getting what he paid for". I gave him a $300 credit in my ad area (he paid $97) - and he actually asked for his $300 back (ROFL) AFTER I had done well over 12 hours of assisting, consulting/suggesting and help on his sites, and I STILL put up his ads.

            When I said no - he went to a well known guru who had referred him to the offer and complained about me. When the guru asked me about it, I forwarded the emails showing what I'd done and his attitude/expections.

            Guru response: "Glad you fired him!"

            That's not the usual case - but the fact is, when you get busy - and not everyone hands off their customer service to a bunch of outside people - as was mentioned, by the time you create your sites, your sales letters, deal with your emails and your marketing, there isn't as much time to respond to everyone who wants some of your time (especially if its to pitch you on something).

            It's not to offend - its just a matter of time. Some people want to spend some time with their families ... (so as not to tick off the spouse LOL!)
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125608].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author vorales
        Originally Posted by jhongren View Post

        You will never know you will become the next guru.
        I Would say now the Singaporeans are the GURUS to as they have made the new F1 Track.
        The only track with Fiber Optic Cables for the F1 to made seen at NIGHT.

        John you goona enjoy the F1.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125036].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author theredcell
          The good ones have good help desk support. I've contacted Jeff Walker's and Eban Pagan's help desk via email and received responses within 24 hours. As was stated earlier, if you have a car problem you can't contact the CEO. The next time you're thinking about buying a product, contact their help desk first and ask questions. Check the forums and see if they have an issue. If they do, it is most likely going to be the same when you buy..

          I've been in phone coversations with Jonny Andrews, he's very accessible and probably one of the most down to earth guy who tells you like it is. And he has good affordable stuff that wont bust the bank

          Jose
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125054].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jhongren
          Originally Posted by vorales View Post

          I Would say now the Singaporeans are the GURUS to as they have made the new F1 Track.
          The only track with Fiber Optic Cables for the F1 to made seen at NIGHT.

          John you goona enjoy the F1.
          Yah..it is as if the whole world is swarming to Singapore just for the F1.

          Anyway, back to the thread. It is easy to contact Gurus and get to know them. If you are thinking about JVing with them during the first contact, you may need to put in much more effort to gain trust and build the relationship.

          Btw, yday night I was on Skype with a local guru who I met at a local event. Normally they are all very friendly and always willing to help. =)

          Cheers,
          John
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126667].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rob Lee
    Lately I have been lucky and had no problem contacting some of the gurus. I guess if you hang out in the right forums and are active that helps. Besides that be more active with the events the guru puts on. If they have a private forum then join. That is how I have got to know some of the gurus. Make sure to post valuable posts to the forums. This way they may get to know you.

    Other suggestions include going to their seminars, tele seminars, and webinars. Join in on any group projects they are running. Promoting their products as a JV or affiliate does not hurt. Offer to do testimonials for their products. Ask questions on how you can help promote their products. I have had responses to some emails that I have sent as reply to autoresponder messages. So you never know. Most Gurus do have help desks because they get so many people asking questions. So it is understandable why they may not answer back at times. If you provide something of value and explain why your request is in their best interest you have a better shot of them replying. In general try to become more of a friend to the gurus. Don't just try to take advantage of them by asking for favors without building a friendship first. Anymore suggestions guys?

    As far as customer support question that is very dependent on the guru. Some have great customer support while others do not. Don't be surprised if a team member answers your questions versus the actual guru. The gurus have tons of stuff going on. They don't have time to answer every question personally. That is why they have help desks and tickets. They also may outsource the customer support. They should have a facts and questions section at their help desk that should help you.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125087].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    Being a 'IM guru' is no different to trying to contact a CEO of a global brand. You need to build up the relationship (possibly via networking) or offer them something great. In both cases you'll get direct contact info I can assure you of that.

    Rich
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125785].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      You can contact me anytime you like..

      I won't necessarily be able to reply though

      I'm busy on my yacht...

      Mruhahaha

      Peace

      Jay
      Signature

      Bare Murkage.........

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125790].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Hillage
    They get a LOT of email - yours needs to jump out and scream to get their attention, otherwise forget it!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125795].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RichDavis
    I think the majority of the "gurus" just have so many emails being sent to them every single day that they simply don't have time to get to each and every one personally..... ontop of that most have switched to helpdesk which are handled by other staff members pretty much anymore, they are guru's for a reason... and if they spent all their time with their heads in the email box they wouldn't ever have time to come out with their next big product or to even conceptualize it lol....

    however, the gurus I have ever tried to contact they have been fairly easy to get in touch with! so maybe it is just my personal expierence but i have never had any problems, but like a fellow warrior said you got to make your email's jump out and yell HEY HERE READ ME READ ME.. ok maybe not that exact phrase but you get the message :-) simply be original and make your message stand out another good way to reach a guru is also meantioned on here (post at their blogs, everyone is becoming a blogger these days!)

    anyways enough jabbering... I probably bored you all to death already with my long winded post...

    Chat again soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[125831].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
    I really fought going to a help desk for a long time... I think I was probably one of the last to do it - it just seemed too impersonal.

    But it just got to be a matter of numbers, I couldn't keep up with the email... so if I was going to keep the "personal touch" of email, then I was going to have lousy customer service. Going to a help desk type of thing meant much better customer service. That made the decision a lot easier.

    We're definitely NOT perfect, but we're trying... Jose, I'm glad to hear you had a good experience.

    There are certainly ways to contact most gurus. I actually covered this pretty extensively for my PLF2 Owners in my JV section. But I think that Tim Ferriss has some good stuff about this in his "4 Hour Workweek" book.

    But yeah... the crush of email, PMs, calls, Fed Ex packages, etc... it's pretty insane.

    - Jeff
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126603].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

      I really fought going to a help desk for a long time... I think I was probably one of the last to do it - it just seemed too impersonal.

      But it just got to be a matter of numbers, I couldn't keep up with the email... so if I was going to keep the "personal touch" of email, then I was going to have lousy customer service. Going to a help desk type of thing meant much better customer service. That made the decision a lot easier.

      We're definitely NOT perfect, but we're trying... Jose, I'm glad to hear you had a good experience.

      There are certainly ways to contact most gurus. I actually covered this pretty extensively for my PLF2 Owners in my JV section. But I think that Tim Ferriss has some good stuff about this in his "4 Hour Workweek" book.

      But yeah... the crush of email, PMs, calls, Fed Ex packages, etc... it's pretty insane.

      - Jeff
      Jeff, I gotta be able to buy your stuff before I can try to sink my time vampire fangs into ya! J/K That's just my way of tellin ya that the link in your sig file doesn't appear to be working.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126626].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        I see both sides of this one (kinda)...


        On one hand, the "gurus" you speak of are sending you hoards of promotional emails meant to come accross in a personal matter. Regardless, they are going out to a whole list from an auto responder. It's not a personal communication, though it is hoped to be perceived as that. So since they're signing their name at the bottom of the email you think you should be able to touch base with them on occasion. It's not the same as trying to contact a corporation's CEO. Not even close. Think about the sales process and hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from. Personally, I understand why some may feel this way, but it's a pretty naive line of thinking.


        On the other hand, time is both valuable and limited. And a lot (if not most) people trying to get ahold of said "gurus" have rather trivial things on their mind. And even if it's not most, the ones that are make it impossible for the serious ones to get through. The bottom line is this...just because you've bought one of their products doesn't mean you own their time. You traded your money for their product or service because you perceived the value to exceed the asking price. If it didn't deliver, request a refund. If it did, quit trying to get more than you agreed to without paying for it. If all you really need is support, a help desk is adequate. If you want hand holding, pay a retainer (if they'll accept it).

        The way I see it, there are 2 bookend personalities...
        1. The Customer Is Always Right
        2. The Customer Is A Pain In The Butt
        Find a vendor who's level of "inbetweenness" or lack there of you're comfortable with and do business with them.
        Signature
        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
        ~ Zig Ziglar
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126678].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Do you have a particular Guru in mind? I don't have any problem contacting the people I want to. Many of them are on Skype and easy to contact right away.

    If they have no idea who you are - why would they be easy to contact? and there's a difference between being easy to contact and wanting people you don't know to waste your time..

    Some people buy an ebook and think you owe them your time for the rest of their life. When I buy a book from an offline store I don't expect to contact the author - but online people seem to think they have the right to your personal details if they buy your stuff.
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126618].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
    Jeff, I gotta be able to buy your stuff before I can try to sink my time vampire fangs into ya! J/K That's just my way of tellin ya that the link in your sig file doesn't appear to be working.

    DOH!!

    OK, it's fixed now. But you still can't buy anything from me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126642].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

      DOH!!

      OK, it's fixed now. But you still can't buy anything from me.
      I know.

      I'll prove you wrong one day though! Looking forward to it.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126684].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
        I know.

        I'll prove you wrong one day though! Looking forward to it.
        Hehe... it's a battle of wills.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126758].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jhongren
          Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

          Hehe... it's a battle of wills.
          Hey Jeff, Talking about will, I seriously think it is required to contact a "guru".

          Many feel inferior thinking that they are not up to it or they don't deserve to talk to guru.

          Personally I feel it is a battle of wills starting from the inside of us. We got to feel good of ourselves if we want to sustain long in this long journey.

          What do you think, Jeff?

          Cheers,
          John
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126772].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    Believe it or not, there are hierarchies that exist. Someone near the top doesn't have to please anyone other than people on his level or his customers. He doesn't. He has a choice to do what he wants with his time.

    Someone near the bottom is 'expected' to bend over backwards to please someone with bigger lists, bigger contacts, whatever it is.

    It is just that the hierarchies are not defined like in an organization such as a corporate company or the army. It's a freer market.

    The 'ranks' are invisible. But the difference is, you can create your own rules if you want and choose to ignore all this. After all, it's your business and anyone should be able to make their own choice with regards to that.

    Fabian
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126780].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      I'm curious as to who you've tried to contact without success and what kind of message you were trying to get to them.

      Nearly every major email marketer has a help desk and a phone answered by real, live people.

      Contacting them is not difficult but as with most busy business owners you should expect to go through a gate keeper before you get to talk to the head honcho.

      It's the same in any business and especially in consulting businesses where people are charging for advice and expertise.

      If you're just looking for free advice without offering to pay for it then your chances go down (as they should).

      Many "gurus" have clients paying them $5,000+ a year for one on one consulting.

      Do you think you should be getting this hard earned information free?

      Do you think it's fair for a "guru" to take time away from his paid clients to give you the same information they're paying for completely free?

      I've found most internet marketers are exceptionally easy to get in contact with and talk to compared to other businesses as long as you're not just trying to get some kind of free ride (not that I'm saying you're doing this).

      But again I'm really curious as to who you're having trouble getting in contact with?

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126810].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Lee
    Some gurus value their time so much they have to charge per hour of time you take away from them.

    But many will give you the time as long as they like you, or you satisfy their WIIFM condition.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126788].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

      Believe it or not, there are hierarchies that exist. Someone near the top doesn't have to please anyone other than people on his level or his customers. He doesn't. He has a choice to do what he wants with his time.

      Someone near the bottom is 'expected' to bend over backwards to please someone with bigger lists, bigger contacts, whatever it is.

      It is just that the hierarchies are not defined like in an organization such as a corporate company or the army. It's a freer market.

      The 'ranks' are invisible. But the difference is, you can create your own rules if you want and choose to ignore all this. After all, it's your business and anyone should be able to make their own choice with regards to that.

      Fabian
      I don't buy the whole hierarchies thing - The best thing about IM is that you create your own system and do business with whoever you want (or don't want) to.

      The only time this hierarchies BS comes in to play is if you're after something from other people and you feel the need to play games to get it.

      It's a choice.

      If you start out and decide you want to make money selling how to make money products to other beginners then there are obviously people already drinking from that well and they can be competitors or partners, or you can just ignore them and do your own thing.

      It's your choice.

      I don't give a noodle what other people are doing as far as my business goes. My business relies on what I do. Any time I get involved with other people is because I like them or they've got a great product that I really like.

      So, if someone I don't know or don't like wanted to contact me - WHY would I want to make that easy?

      Whenever I meet someone I like and would consider doing business with - I give them my details.

      This 'Guru' thing only becomes real if you're from the school of WIIFM.

      Mostly here it's in the IM niche and people are all trying to eat each others dinner, so working with people you don't know or trust just means jeopardizing your business and revenue.

      It might make it 'seem' like some sort of old boys club - but who would YOU rather work with?

      You can make great money without any Gurus involved in your business, so if you really think you NEED them - you have bigger problems than whether they'll answer your emails or phone calls.

      Keep it real and do your own thing. If you're in the IM niche and doing unique, interesting things - people will find you.

      Andy
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126800].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
        John,

        Many feel inferior thinking that they are not up to it or they don't deserve to talk to guru.

        Personally I feel it is a battle of wills starting from the inside of us. We got to feel good of ourselves if we want to sustain long in this long journey.
        Now that's a really interesting question.

        I remember at the very first seminar I went
        to (in January 2000) I got in an elevator the
        very first morning to go down to the event
        and there was Ken Evoy.

        At the time, Ken was about the biggest "guru"
        that I knew of, and I had studied his stuff
        extensively.

        At the time I already had a six-figure online
        biz, but I was still completely star-struck.

        I remember the conversation going through my
        head like it was yesterday... I'm actually
        quite an introvert, and I am NOT good at
        initiating conversations. So I was just
        standing there thinking I should keep my
        mouth shut.

        But I said to myself "you're here to meet
        people"... so I went ahead and said "hi" and
        told Ken I really liked his product.

        Ken was super-gracious and kind... and by the
        end of the event, I had actually taken Ken
        out to lunch. That was cool - and I learned a
        valuable lesson about approaching gurus...
        they're just people.

        By the end of the event I had had
        conversations with Corey Rudl, Jay Abraham,
        and several other "gurus".

        So it just took one time for me to really
        overcome my resistance to find out they're
        just regular folks... and most of them
        sincerely want to help people. And the gurus
        really don't ever get sick of hearing about
        how their products have positively impacted
        their clients.

        John, I think you could go WAY beyond your
        statement. I think it goes beyond contacting
        gurus. I think that a lot of people (not all)
        who aren't getting the success they want need
        to work on their inner game as much as
        anything.

        I mean, I would love to sell my products to
        all of them... but often it's not the latest
        marketing tactic or strategy, it's more
        getting your head screwed on straight. I've
        heard Dan Kennedy say that if he lost
        EVERYTHING and had to start all over, the
        first place he would start would be with the
        inner game stuff. I think I would have to
        agree. That and surrounding yourself with
        abundance-minded, success-oriented people.

        OK, sorry to get all hippy-groovy here and
        for hijacking the thread. But I really think
        this stuff is important.


        - Jeff
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126808].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
          Hey all,

          Just wanted to re-emphasize something Jeff said in his reply, because I'm sure that most are going to miss it ...

          Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post


          I remember at the very first seminar I went
          to (in January 2000) I got in an elevator the
          very first morning to go down to the event
          and there was Ken Evoy.

          [ SNIP ]

          Ken was super-gracious and kind... and by the
          end of the event, I had actually taken Ken
          out to lunch. That was cool - and I learned a
          valuable lesson about approaching gurus...
          they're just people.

          By the end of the event I had had
          conversations with Corey Rudl, Jay Abraham,
          and several other "gurus".

          - Jeff
          SEMINARS people! Get your butt out from behind the computer, get on a plane, and get to an offline event ... period.

          The best way to get through to the "gurus" in this field, or any other field with "gurus", is to get yourself out to an offline event.

          Those who are willing to make the trip to an offline event are instantly given about 100 levels more credibility, and are seen as a hell of a lot more serious about their business, than someone who just sends an email ... your willingness to get to an event is sort of a "bar" that you pass when you walk through the doors.

          I've probably been to 40 events over the past 5 years, and I'd estimate I've seen no more than 1,200 different people ... there are what, hundreds of thousands of people in this field, maybe more? Yet, I've maybe seen 1,200 people through 5 years, at over 40 events?

          I see a lot of similar faces when I walk into most events ... that's no accident.

          Get to an event ...

          Again, get to an offline event ...

          And finally, get to an event.

          If you want someone to take you seriously, invite them out to lunch, buy them a drink at the bar, but above all else ... do it in person.

          Thanks,
          Gary Ambrose
          Signature
          If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

          P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126829].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Tinkerbell
          Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

          I'm actually
          quite an introvert, and I am NOT good at
          initiating conversations. So I was just
          standing there thinking I should keep my
          mouth shut.

          - Jeff
          Jeff, that's me to a "T".

          I know you gotta get out there and meet people, talk to people,
          but I'm so darn shy it's hard for me to make myself open my
          mouth even to just say "Hi!"

          As for gurus being hard to contact, I've "contacted" a few, and
          each time I have I usually get a response...a gracious one. Like
          you said, "They're just people".

          Tina

          Wait...did I just say that in response to JEFF WALKER? THE Jeff Walker? The PLF Jeff Walker? OMG, I'm gonna faint! LOL
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126879].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jhongren
          Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

          John,

          Now that's a really interesting question.

          I remember at the very first seminar I went
          to (in January 2000) I got in an elevator the
          very first morning to go down to the event
          and there was Ken Evoy.

          At the time, Ken was about the biggest "guru"
          that I knew of, and I had studied his stuff
          extensively.

          At the time I already had a six-figure online
          biz, but I was still completely star-struck.

          I remember the conversation going through my
          head like it was yesterday... I'm actually
          quite an introvert, and I am NOT good at
          initiating conversations. So I was just
          standing there thinking I should keep my
          mouth shut.

          But I said to myself "you're here to meet
          people"... so I went ahead and said "hi" and
          told Ken I really liked his product.

          Ken was super-gracious and kind... and by the
          end of the event, I had actually taken Ken
          out to lunch. That was cool - and I learned a
          valuable lesson about approaching gurus...
          they're just people.

          By the end of the event I had had
          conversations with Corey Rudl, Jay Abraham,
          and several other "gurus".

          So it just took one time for me to really
          overcome my resistance to find out they're
          just regular folks... and most of them
          sincerely want to help people. And the gurus
          really don't ever get sick of hearing about
          how their products have positively impacted
          their clients.

          John, I think you could go WAY beyond your
          statement. I think it goes beyond contacting
          gurus. I think that a lot of people (not all)
          who aren't getting the success they want need
          to work on their inner game as much as
          anything.

          I mean, I would love to sell my products to
          all of them... but often it's not the latest
          marketing tactic or strategy, it's more
          getting your head screwed on straight. I've
          heard Dan Kennedy say that if he lost
          EVERYTHING and had to start all over, the
          first place he would start would be with the
          inner game stuff. I think I would have to
          agree. That and surrounding yourself with
          abundance-minded, success-oriented people.

          OK, sorry to get all hippy-groovy here and
          for hijacking the thread. But I really think
          this stuff is important.


          - Jeff
          Hi Jeff,

          Thanks for your sharing. I know it is not easy and it takes alot of determination to be successful in this game.

          There is a Chinese saying that we have to help ourselves first before anything esle can help us.

          Starting from inside is the hardest and not many like the idea of changing from the inside out. Most even resisted the change and they are looking for external solutions.

          Mindset change is the hardest module to take so far. It is the whole shift of the inner self towards success.

          That is why empowering workshops are such in things. They charge a premium price for it, people get hype out for a while and go back to their old self.

          Sustaining change is not easy. And being around like-minded people helps alot.

          It is same as what you have said:

          => surrounding yourself with abundance-minded, success-oriented people.

          To your success,
          John
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126937].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi,

            Wow. This thread just got really busy all of a sudden

            Hi Fabian,

            With respect, this -

            I ascribe to Dan Kennedy's time management principles. And that's where you calculate every minute of where you are spending your time on.
            ...sounds like the definition of 'anal'. Or put another way, how to spend so much time on time management that you run out of time to do anything productive and useful. You could leave your descendants a nice, comprehensive life-diary in your will though, I guess.

            So completely disregarding the spirit of Dan's 'time management on steroids' I have spent the last two days seeking understanding, and the conclusive answer to the most important question posed here in this very thread -
            Why is contacting a "Guru" near impossible?
            And here it is. Have you ever heard of 'the monkeysphere'?

            I hadn't either until I stumbled upon this -

            What is the Monkeysphere? | Cracked.com

            In brief, it explains how the people within our own 'monkeysphere' are real living human beings, whilst everyone outside of it is a two dimensional cardboard cut-out. And interestingly, we treat them as such.

            Here's an interesting, albeit slightly controversial snippet -

            Listen to any 16 year-old kid with his first job, going on and on about how the boss is screwing him and the government is screwing him even more ("What's FICA?!?!" he screams as he looks at his first paycheck).

            Then watch that same kid at work, as he drops a hamburger patty on the floor, picks it up, and slaps in on a bun and serves it to a customer.

            In that one dropped burger he has everything he needs to understand those black-hearted politicians and corporate bosses. They see him in the exact same way he sees the customers lined up at the burger counter. Which is, just barely.

            In both cases, for the guy making the burger and the guy running Exxon, getting through the workweek and collecting the paycheck are all that matters. No thought is given to the real human unhappiness being spread by doing it sh*ttily (ever gotten so sick from food poisoning you thought your stomach lining was going to fly out of your mouth?) That many customers or employees just can't fit inside the Monkeysphere.

            The kid will protest that he shouldn't have to care for the customers for minimum wage, but the truth is if a man doesn't feel sympathy for his fellow man at $6.00 an hour, he won't feel anything more at $600,000 a year.

            Or, to look at it the other way, if we're allowed to be indifferent and even resentful to the masses for $6.00 an hour, just think of how angry some Pakistani man is allowed to be when he's making the equivalent of six dollars a week.
            So there you have it. The gurus keep their distance because if they ever got too close, you might stop being made of cardboard and become real, thus ending up inside their 'monkeysphere'.

            And obviously, there is the inherent danger that this might put barriers between their hand and your wallet. And any self respecting marketer knows that that scenario could lead to a life of submitting articles to EA to make affiliate sales. Eeeeew!

            Incidentally, if you liked the 'monkeysphere' you might like some of the other David Wong articles on there, such as the one about 'brainwashing techniques' or 'embrace the horror' if you're feeling really deep/bored.

            Be happy!
            Signature


            Roger Davis

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127059].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
              Interesting theory Roger.

              Personally I think the time involvement in dealing with a whole bunch of people is a much bigger factor in why it may sometimes be hard to get in touch with a "guru".

              I'm far from guru status and am not too far off reaching my own limits -- And I already have a ticket system in place.

              So there you have it. The gurus keep their distance because if they ever got too close, you might stop being made of cardboard and become real, thus ending up inside their 'monkeysphere'.
              Given that we're more likely to buy from people we like, wouldn't the monkey theory fly out the window (or drop from a branch, as it were) when you consider getting personal contact is a great way to build the relationship?
              Signature
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127071].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi Kyle,

                Personally I think the time involvement in dealing with a whole bunch of people is a much bigger factor in why it may sometimes be hard to get in touch with a "guru".
                Yes, I agree

                I'm far from guru status
                Refreshing point of view Kyle, damn refreshing. Keep it up!
                Signature


                Roger Davis

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127086].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Hiya Roger!

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              So there you have it. The gurus keep their distance because if they ever got too close, you might stop being made of cardboard and become real, thus ending up inside their 'monkeysphere'.
              So if that article you pointed to above is "true", then you really have to attribute the monkeyshpere theory to everyone and not just gurus - which then doesn't answer the OP's basic question. Based on that article, we ALL look at the "outside world" the same way, no?

              But interesting, nonetheless...

              I still think it's more of a time issue based on the sheer number of customers. I only think this way because of some first hand experience lately...especially after some rather large launches.

              There is no desire to ignore anyone - there just isn't enough time in a given day.

              Mike
              Signature

              Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127167].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author jhongren
                Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                Hiya Roger!



                So if that article you pointed to above is "true", then you really have to attribute the monkeyshpere theory to everyone and not just gurus - which then doesn't answer the OP's basic question. Based on that article, we ALL look at the "outside world" the same way, no?

                But interesting, nonetheless...

                I still think it's more of a time issue based on the sheer number of customers. I only think this way because of some first hand experience lately...especially after some rather large launches.

                There is no desire to ignore anyone - there just isn't enough time in a given day.

                Mike
                I think time becomes really tight when we hope to reach out to everyone. But it is like what you say, Mike, the day only have 24 hours and we have other priorities too like family.

                Mike, I have a question. How do you know when to stop and delegate time to other things?

                Thanks in advance.

                Cheers,
                John
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127327].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author naruq
          I had a specific question for Yanik Silver and he personally contacted me via e-mail.
          Signature

          Please do not use affiliate links in signatures

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[128842].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            I'm no guru and don't play one on TV either. I have a list of about 5,000
            people and let me tell you, I can just about get to everybody who writes to
            me.

            I understand what kind of lives (such as none) these gurus have. They are
            very busy. Many of them are out on the road a lot.

            Because I understand that their time is at a premium, I don't even TRY to
            contact them anymore. If they want me, they know where to find me.

            Try to come outside of your own little world and realize that this world does
            NOT revolve around YOU.

            You don't like the emails you get from them hawking their products? Fine,
            unsubscribe from their lists.

            You bought a $47 ebook? Wonderful. It doesn't entitle you to their time
            24/7, 365 days a year.

            When YOU reach the point where you have a list of 100,000 people, are
            making 7 figures a year and are getting hammered with 300 emails a day,
            you tell me how easy it is for YOU to get back to everybody.

            I'm so sick of the guru bashing that goes on.

            They're people...just like you and they deserve to have a life....

            JUST like you.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[128883].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author jhongren
              Hi Steven,

              Thanks for your reply.

              I think it really helps us newbies who are new in product creation and giving customer support.

              Many times we just wonder how do we manage with so many emails coming in and the emails cover a wide range of topic. And what will happen if we miss out some due to the massive number of emails or we took a bit longer to reply them.... hmmmm... :?

              It really amazes me that you have so much dedication and love for what you do. I also see that you give time to anyone who needs help.

              So I guess it is really not easy for you too and other gurus.

              Thanks again for all your help you have given to us.

              Cheers,
              John
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[128921].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
    you know what I find funny?
    I write for a magazine that has a super celeb on it's cover every issue
    it's actually relatively easy to get holdofone of them
    but to talk to the head of a corporation is damn near impossible
    Signature

    If you can afford to, please give money to support the people in the Christchurch Earthquake.
    Here is a post to give you information on how to, no matter where you are in the world
    New Zealand thanks you

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126832].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
    What Gary said.

    It was THE key to my success.

    People all talk about the good old boy gurus club.

    Well guess what... Kern, Reese, Johnson, Mulligan, Potash, and myself all met at the first Big Seminar in February 2003. We all became friends while we were drinking beer at the bar, and we've built our friendship since then.

    Is it any wonder we promote each other's products?

    There, I just let you in on a real insider secret.


    - Jeff

    BTW, none of us were speakers at the event, we all paid to be there.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126839].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Scott Lundergan
      Maybe the original post title is the reason why it may seem impossible for some. How about treating them as fellow human beings instead (in direct line with what Jeff and a few others mentioned). Profound, yet simple....rather than looking at someone with celebrity status.

      ...Along with understanding (and adapting to) what many other posters have said about time, energy, mindset, email, productvity, a product people want and that helps them or their customers, six degrees of seperation, etc.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126848].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
        Originally Posted by Scott Lundergan View Post

        Maybe the original post title is the reason why it may seem impossible for some. How about treating them as fellow human beings instead (in direct line with what Jeff and a few others mentioned). Profound, yet simple....rather than looking at someone with celebrity status.

        ...Along with understanding (and adapting to) what many other posters have said about time, energy, mindset, email, productvity, a product people want and that helps them or their customers, six degrees of seperation, etc.
        How true. I posted a JV thread (which is currently the most viewed in the JV forum) and got swamped with pretty much one-sided JV offers (with only a few good offers in from reputable marketers) who want to tap into your resources.

        And I even got some JV offers from people who have previously slated me in public before. LOL, they must be THAT desperate.

        It's no wonder that the bigger you get, the more selective you have to be with who you respond to and who you give time to. LOL

        I ascribe to Dan Kennedy's time management principles. And that's where you calculate every minute of where you are spending your time on.

        Fabian
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126895].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post


      There, I just let you in on a real insider secret.
      I missed it - what was the secret
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[126901].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    Why is contacting a "Guru" near impossible?
    I guess I'll chime in with my abstract viewpoint, lol.

    Coming from a totally different perspective.... perhaps the "guru"; (post 'guru' status); realizes that branding his "name" was an actual mistake instead of branding his/her "business" and is realizing that it might have been a major faux pas and now trying desperately to rectify it without losing any money in the process.

    <shrug>

    I've heard and read many a IMer feverishly protest that branding one's "name" is the best way to go; yet, (IMHO), that's a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Because you essentially "train" your clients to 'expect' to be able to get to you, personally; which is more than likely the reason behind the origin of this thread AND the mixed responses.

    Not to mention the fact that companies like Facebook, Google, Technorati and the like; (with the odd exception of that guy "Tom" over there at MySpace); have kinna crushed the whole "personal name branding to be successful" theory.

    (again) <shrug>
    PLP,
    tecHead
    Signature
    Learn How to Buy & Sell Real Estate w/NO Money Down
    Automation is the primary conduit to successful relaxation
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127195].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

      I guess I'll chime in with my abstract viewpoint, lol.

      Coming from a totally different perspective.... perhaps the "guru"; (post 'guru' status); realizes that branding his "name" was an actual mistake instead of branding his/her "business" and is realizing that it might have been a major faux pas and now trying desperately to rectify it without losing any money in the process.
      Wouldn't that first involve changing the business name? If they haven't done that then I doubt ignoring their customers is their alternative grand strategy.


      Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

      <shrug>

      I've heard and read many a IMer feverishly protest that branding one's "name" is the best way to go; yet, (IMHO), that's a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Because you essentially "train" your clients to 'expect' to be able to get to you, personally; which is more than likely the reason behind the origin of this thread AND the mixed responses.

      Not to mention the fact that companies like Facebook, Google, Technorati and the like; (with the odd exception of that guy "Tom" over there at MySpace); have kinna crushed the whole "personal name branding to be successful" theory.

      (again) <shrug>
      PLP,
      tecHead
      Yup, that's why when I go into a JC Penny I expect to talk personally with Mr Penny.

      Or when I ring Trump organization I expect Donald to personally answer my call.

      :rolleyes:
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127207].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tecHead
        Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

        Wouldn't that first involve changing the business name? If they haven't done that then I doubt ignoring their customers is their alternative grand strategy.




        Yup, that's why when I go into a JC Penny I expect to talk personally with Mr Penny.

        Or when I ring Trump organization I expect Donald to personally answer my call.

        :rolleyes:
        ...and there you go Ladies and Gentlemen... a prime example of TOTALLY missing the point.

        There are always exceptions to every 'rule', my friend... and opinions are like... ok, you get the point.

        peace
        tecHead
        Signature
        Learn How to Buy & Sell Real Estate w/NO Money Down
        Automation is the primary conduit to successful relaxation
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127224].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
          Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

          ...and there you go Ladies and Gentlemen... a prime example of TOTALLY missing the point.
          If you'd be so kind as to clarify it.

          Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

          There are always exceptions to every 'rule', my friend... and opinions are like... ok, you get the point.
          Of course, you stated one, I stated another.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127241].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
          Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

          ...and there you go Ladies and Gentlemen... a prime example of TOTALLY missing the point.
          What was your point, then, since I had the same thought as Kyle?... when dealing with large businesses nobody expects to be dealing with the owner or CEO.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[129180].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

      I've heard and read many a IMer feverishly protest that branding one's "name" is the best way to go; yet, (IMHO), that's a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Because you essentially "train" your clients to 'expect' to be able to get to you, personally; which is more than likely the reason behind the origin of this thread AND the mixed responses.
      Here's the thing..

      When you receive an email starting "Hey Bill" and you see that it's got a "no reply" address, you realise that you're not having a conversation, you're being broadcasted to. The personal salutation is simply being used to foster an illusion of intimacy.

      That's fine if you understand the process, but you can't blame people for buying into the perceived personal nature of the relationship, given the method of communication. If the marketer's done his or her job well, there's a feeling of connection which is different from the relationship that a customer might have with the CEO of a major corporation.

      Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

      Given that we're more likely to buy from people we like, wouldn't the monkey theory fly out the window (or drop from a branch, as it were) when you consider getting personal contact is a great way to build the relationship?
      As I understand it, you may believe the guru is in your monkeyspere, but you may not be in his.


      Frank
      Signature
      I've just put Richard Branson's number on speed-dial. I call it my "Get-Rich-Quick" scheme.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127225].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
        I never understood the way people think sometimes. It seems people think they are entitled to personal contact when they purchase a product from someone.


        I purchase Microsoft products and have never had contact with Bill Gates.



        It is a strange line of thinking to me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[127236].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JamieBing
    Originally Posted by waltervs View Post

    Just a thought that occurred to me the other day...

    Why is that almost every IM Guru who preaches the benefits of building relationships with customers and, by implication, engendering an atmosphere of trust etc. etc. then goes about making it well nigh impossible to contact them directly by email and completely impossible to do so by phone?
    It really boils down to time management. In the beginning it is crucial to have that personal touch on every person you meet. As you grow and gain more and more contacts, you have to make a decision on what is "most important". When you go from getting only a few emails or phone calls each days to getting hundreds or thousands each day, there simply is not enough hours in the day to get to have that personal contact with everyone.

    I used to think it was arrogance but as our success has grown I fully understand how it can be.

    I guess my next message will come from the beach in Fort Lauderdale ... :-)
    Signature

    Jamie Bing

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[128068].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    I never even understood this whole "I need to contact a guru" crap.

    No offense to anyone, but I mean honestly like someone mentioned,
    do you pick up a book in barnes n noble and expect the author to
    be waiting for you to contact them.

    These guys run businesses, which happen to put out information
    to help me run MY business.

    I get the information from these guys, digest it, then implement
    it in my business where applicable, then move on.

    If you need support, they should have a support system to assist
    you with matters of that nature.

    I don't understand where people think any of these guys OWE you
    any of their time, because you bought their product.

    YOU ARE NOT GIVING THEM YOUR MONEY, YOU ARE
    EXCHANGING YOUR MONEY FOR A PRODUCT YOU FIND
    MORE VALUABLE THAN THE DOLLAR AMOUNT YOU SPENT...

    In other words, no one owes your ass a got damn thing
    but customer support. If any of these guys personally
    helps you its out of the kindness of their hearts.

    Pick up the phone and call russell simmons.

    Exactly.

    Daniel
    Signature

    Self Actualization is one's true purpose. Everything
    else is an illusion.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[128754].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
      Well, I did not do it by going to events.

      (First off, I dig many of the people in this
      thread, like Jeff Walker and Gary A. etc)

      But, I've never met either one of them
      face to face. I've only been to a few
      events and most of them were Dr. Mike's
      (because I was working with him closely)

      I have not met most gurus face to face.

      I do think that events are great, and you
      should get out and meet people to expand
      your business and contacts. It's always
      going to be a people business.

      However, dont think that's it.

      There's one thing that matters most and
      that's a beautiful word that all RICH people
      understand very-very well.. and that word
      is...........

      LEVERAGE

      If you create killer products... you'll get the
      contacts and get through to the big dogs.

      If you write killer copy... you'll get the
      contacts and get through to the big dogs.

      If you have a ton of contacts... you'll get
      the deals and get through to the big dogs.

      If you have a big list, are a top affiliate of
      theirs, etc... you'll get the deals, the contacts
      and get through to the big dogs.

      If you have a name, and a following, bingo

      If you can generate traffic like a maniac, bingo

      Even at events, even though I rarely write
      copy anymore for others, I still get emails constantly
      and phone calls, and people coming up to me
      for copywriting.

      It's leverage.

      Now that am a partner with Mike Filsaime, guess what
      I get?? emails, phone calls and people coming up to
      me for nothing else but to get MIKE to promote their
      stuff.

      It's all that and much more.

      Jeff is right though... these folks are normal people
      and most are good folks. Mike is good people and
      so is Dr Mike. They get hammered with emails,
      proposals, phone calls, visits and such. It's impossible
      to keep your sanity without help, and they employ
      help.

      Mike and me had a two hour conversation last night
      on one thing... ONE CUSTOMER complaint and how
      we can learn from it, improve and get better and
      better.

      When people complain about gurus and not being
      able to get in contact with them, etc it's usually
      completely unjustified and unreasonable.

      Anyhow, the key is "Leverage". What are you
      good at and what do you have a name for? If
      you are just another email from a name not
      easily recognized, it'll get deleted --- unless
      it's a customer --- or a justified reason.

      An email that says:

      "Hey. Guru. I know this is a bigtime long shot,
      and you're probably too busy... and you're most
      likely never going to see this email at all, but can
      you, if you can, possibly, call me on my cell
      because I have something big to run by you..."

      Is probably not going to get you anywhere.

      Unless, they recognize your name and identify
      your name with LEVERAGE.

      Then, when you go to events, even better!

      I hope that helps. And Jeff, when we going
      to meet face to face big daddy? 'cause I have
      something HUGE to run by you.



      jk

      Eric Louviere
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[128824].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    Hmm, who should I listen to, Dan Kennedy or ExRat?

    It was referring to work time, anyway. LOL

    Fabian
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[129136].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    Why do you need to contact some supposed "GURU"?

    You have multi-millionaires right on this forum giving advice for free daily.

    Terry
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[129198].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Fabian,

      Hmm, who should I listen to, Dan Kennedy or ExRat?
      Hmmm, it's a difficult one. But after a little thought, I'd have to say Dan.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[129325].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by Terry Hatfield View Post

      Why do you need to contact some supposed "GURU"?

      You have multi-millionaires right on this forum giving advice for free daily.
      Spot on Terry.

      And in most cases they've given you fantastic advice which you're still NOT taking action on!

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[129384].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics