I have a bit of a problem with alot of IM'ers

by IRON_STRONG 83 replies
Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #alot #bit #imers #problem
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

    all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

    i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

    can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?
    LOL...

    I happen to agree..

    I think it has something to do with the mountains of information that can be compiled by people who know sweet FA about anything and then think they can pass it off as a masterpiece...

    Those that can't do, teach!.. it's a bit sad really...

    Peace

    Jay
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      I agree that there are some like you describe, but there are also great WSOs and leaders here.

      I have done a LOT of reading on this forum and I have purchased 2 WSOs - each from people that I see are doing what they say they are doing and are consistent with their words and deeds.

      I am glad I was cautious! I think it pays off when you read everything a person posts before buying from or following them.
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    "Those that can't do, teach!.. it's a bit sad really..." really? Gee, does that apply to me, StomperNet, Frank Kern, John Reese,etc and the like?

    I've taught over 300 people how to trade forex who currently make around 0.5% to 2% on a constant weekly to monthly basis.

    I've taught around 1,000 people how to do SEO, and they're getting much better rankings than they could of done without my help.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by askloz View Post

      "Those that can't do, teach!.. it's a bit sad really..." really? Gee, does that apply to me, StomperNet, Frank Kern, John Reese,etc and the like?

      I've taught over 300 people how to trade forex who currently make around 0.5% to 2% on a constant weekly to monthly basis.

      I've taught around 1,000 people how to do SEO, and they're getting much better rankings than they could of done without my help.
      I didn't say ALL teachers can't do... I said those that can't do, teach...
      Signature

      Bare Murkage.........

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      • Profile picture of the author askloz
        heehe, but that's not how I look at it.

        Those that teach, can't do.

        K, call me crazy, but that's how it registers in my mind...

        Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

        I didn't say ALL teachers can't do... I said those that can't do, teach...
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        • Profile picture of the author naonline
          I propose we start a 'sin bin' on the WF and add the names of IM'ers who have piss*d us off with crap products, scams, and dubious marketing techniques. If they're genuine and can convince us they're genuine, the moderators can remove them from the bin.

          They can even add - ' Warrior sin bin approved' to their sales page!

          Nick (clearly drunk)
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          • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
            Originally Posted by naonline View Post

            Nick (clearly drunk)
            LOL... afternoon drinking eh Nick?...

            Now where's that SoCo??.... pass me my flippin southern comfort...

            Peace

            Jay
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            • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
              As I posted in another thread today...

              ...the Internet isn't a magic money-making machine. It's just a platform where products and services can be marketed, sold and supported.

              Avoid anything that says otherwise (usually in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS).

              Cheers,

              Neil
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    I can certainly understand your frustration...

    In time, as you develop your own system for building your business - all the other ebooks and systems will simply pass you by and you won't bat an eyelid.

    Once you've started to build upon the foundations of your business, the only ebooks you'll ever pay attention to are the ones that fit in directly with your chosen business model - that just takes time and experience to work out.

    The industry isn't full of scammers though, of course, there are some... it is certainly not saturated.

    Although I don't know your own circumstances... One thing I would consider, if I were you - is to take stock of what you have learned and think about how it can be applied to your business. There are no guarantees of results - however, you can help the process by taking a step back and evaluating where you have been successful, where you have failed and what you can do better.

    Kindest regards,
    Karl.
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    • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
      Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

      I can certainly understand your frustration...

      In time, as you develop your own system for building your business - all the other ebooks and systems will simply pass you by and you won't bat an eyelid.

      Once you've started to build upon the foundations of your business, the only ebooks you'll ever pay attention to are the ones that fit in directly with your chosen business model - that just takes time and experience to work out.

      The industry isn't full of scammers though, of course, there are some... it is certainly not saturated.

      Although I don't know your own circumstances... One thing I would consider, if I were you - is to take stock of what you have learned and think about how it can be applied to your business. There are no guarantees of results - however, you can help the process by taking a step back and evaluating where you have been successful, where you have failed and what you can do better.

      Kindest regards,
      Karl.

      absoutely.

      i have found that since i have stopped trying to learn (the past 6 months time devoted to it) and started to act upon what i have learned things are multiplying beyond belief!

      i started a direct mail campaign built to squeeze pages set up an autoresponder system and have built a marketing plan for my private fitness services.

      to double that i have developed a multiple series fitness system and worbook that i am using as a bonus to generate leads and opt in's thats 100% free of charge.

      i am also taking this and developing a product to be sold on the front end for a large amount and carry over into the backend with a monthly membership site devoted to the same niche.


      this has all taken place since august 29th.

      but yes i understand there are always those that are reliable trustworthy and actually use what they teach. but in truth, my post should not offend anyone here who practices what they teach.

      again if you are trying to teach someone how to get rich and you live in a toyota corolla behind walmart... there is an issue there.

      it would be no different if i showed up at a clients house with abeer belly preaching health and fitness. case closed.
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      • Profile picture of the author CJKLewis
        Let me first all say there are alot of people on here trying to sell you things which is not so surprising and the reality is that the majority of it is junk but there are a few that sell something of value but I have to say many of the successful and smart marketers don't bother with this forum due to the tendency of spammers and somewhat garbage that some people get into. (Excuse the huge sentence) Now I am not saying this whole forum is a joke as there are some smart people on here who know what they are talking about but anyway...

        As to your business how do you plan on marketing it and how do you propose to attract potential business when the fitness industry is very populated and saturated??...but the more competition the better IMO. Have you considered putting your product on clickbank at all?

        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author coreytucker
    I agree. If your not making 30k a month then don't claim that you can teach someone how to make 30k a month!
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by coreytucker View Post

      I agree. If your not making 30k a month then don't claim that you can teach someone how to make 30k a month!
      Should a marriage guidance counsellor not trade if they haven't been divorced... or even if they are divorced?

      Just because you can teach something, doesn't necessarily mean you have to practice something. Two different business models entirely.

      If the methods are solid and they work, and can be proven - it doesn't matter, providing you're not claiming that it has worked for you.

      Personally, I wouldn't touch one of those guides with a 10 foot pole, but casting generalisations like the one I've quoted is ridiculous.

      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      it would be no different if i showed up at a clients house with abeer belly preaching health and fitness. case closed.
      Really?

      Does all your knowledge disappear once you've stopped training and decided to live on McDonalds? Or if you had an injury which stopped you from working out, but you could still coach people. Credibility might be an issue if you DID turn up like that - but it would be up to you to show that your methods work.

      I see the point you're trying to make, and agree in part with it...
      It's just that the frustration is self-made and the blanket statements aren't really logical.

      By the way I don't sell or buy make money guides so I'm talking objectively here.
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    • Profile picture of the author tommyfocus
      Originally Posted by coreytucker View Post

      I agree. If your not making 30k a month then don't claim that you can teach someone how to make 30k a month!
      I totally agree!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Einstein could do things that nobody else could do, but he had to learn
        basic math and science from somebody. Those people who taught him
        couldn't do what he did, yet, they helped make him the person that he
        became.

        Teachers don't have to be able to do in order to teach.

        Case closed.
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        • Profile picture of the author naruq
          Excellent Post Steven! I invested in Nitro-Marketing Blueprint also. It is an excellent course. I highly recommend this course by Kevin Wilke.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

    all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

    i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

    can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?
    Iron Strong,

    You will learn real quickly to can the bold claims and grab the stuff that may help your business. Newbies and ebook collectors gravitate toward the 'get rich quick' area of IM. Most of these books are too general to work right.

    As IMers grow, they start to realize that there isn't a book or set of videos out there that can teach it all. So instead of going for the "how I made $XX,XXX in 2 minutes, they go and grab a book on SEO or a book on joint ventures, ect....

    On a side note, to say that the health and fitness arena isn't riddled with scams is ridiculous though. I can't tell you how many videos, books, supplements, ect. that promise that they will be able to shed XX amount of pounds in 30 days, ect. (kind of sounds familiar doesn't it?).
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    lol wow i attracted more responses with this thread than with any i have posted.

    look... i am not saying that just becuase you dont do somthing doesnt mean you dont know how. there are a ton of performance coaches in my industry that are old and out of shape that have a wealth of knowledge on the subject HOWEVER...

    my frustration is geared towards those who have NEVER accomplished success online and try to sell there method for success online. sorry for any confusion but that is what i am trying to get accross here.

    and yes my industry does hold ALOT of scammers... just watch late night TV. i realize that whole heartedly

    But i have just never had the oppourtunity to FIRST HAND read a sales page claiming wonderful amounts of cash and amazing secrets to drive tons of traffic to a page, and then go to a forum and PERSONALLY SEE the owner of that "business" asking how he can make a sale with his product. Does no one else see the irony here?

    Look - IMO if you have had success in a feild, made large sums of money, have proof that you have had success, Etc. Go ahead and sell it - i want you too becuase i want it.

    BUT you have no business selling/ promoting somthing you dont know about or have ad no success with yourself. once again:

    if you live in your 92 toyota corolla behind walmart, you dont have any business selling somone a method to get rich "that has made you millions of dollars."

    thats a fact boys and girls.
    Signature

    I am only one, but still i am one; I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; And because I cant do everything I will not refuse to do the something that i can do.
    Sarasota Personal Trainers Sarasota Performance Trainers

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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      A lot of truth in a lot of statements here. If, when you are selling, you are saying that such and such a method has made you a ton of money, and it has not, you deserve all the venom you have asked for.

      If you are selling something that others could use to make money at, and you do not claim that it has made you a ton of money, but that it might for them, that's a different story.

      You will not find me sticking up for people who go out of their way to rip others off, I would just as soon have a way to make them go away. Far away. I think what makes this happen in IM, is that folks so want to believe that they let that want get in front of their sensibility. And they just want to believe that it is easy.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      and yes my industry does hold ALOT of scammers... just watch late night TV. i realize that whole heartedly
      My, doesn't ethics matter in the fitness industry?

      :p

      Apparently, no more so than in the IM industry...LOL!

      Gotta love blanket statements and judgements.
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      • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        My, doesn't ethics matter in the fitness industry?

        :p

        Apparently, no more so than in the IM industry...LOL!

        Gotta love blanket statements and judgements.
        Well i dont know too many personal trainers that show up with fat ass's, but i can show you 5 or 6 threads in the last few days on here with people selling anything from how to get massive traffic (asking how to get a vistor to their website) to how to make massive money (asking why they cant get a sale)

        Lets not make this a battle of industry, both these industries IMO many times wrongfully target the emotions of consumers to sell their shit.
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        I am only one, but still i am one; I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; And because I cant do everything I will not refuse to do the something that i can do.
        Sarasota Personal Trainers Sarasota Performance Trainers

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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

          Well i dont know too many personal trainers that show up with fat ass's, but i can show you 5 or 6 threads in the last few days on here with people selling anything from how to get massive traffic (asking how to get a vistor to their website) to how to make massive money (asking why they cant get a sale)

          Lets not make this a battle of industry, both these industries IMO many times wrongfully target the emotions of consumers to sell their shit.
          Why not? I think it's all related to the subject matter.

          EVERY industry has their share of hucksters. Not just IM. Not just fitness. You cast the blanket statement and I simply responded. As much as fitness is your niche, this one is mine.

          I just get tired of the entire industry getting slapped around because of the bad apples. And ill-informed customers who can't take responsibility for their own actions (or INactions).

          Maybe I just think differently than some folks in this business, but I don't get upset at marketers pulling the emotinal strings to make a sale, provided they are not scamming. Selling is all ABOUT emotions. People buy on emotion.

          At the end of the day, if you buy a product because the sales copy hit the right emotional hot button on you, it's still YOU that has to pull out the credit card, type all that info into the order form and hit BUY.

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            Why not? I think it's all related to the subject matter.

            EVERY industry has their share of hucksters. Not just IM. Not just fitness. You cast the blanket statement and I simply responded. As much as fitness is your niche, this one is mine.

            I just get tired of the entire industry getting slapped around because of the bad apples. And ill-informed customers who can't take responsibility for their own actions (or INactions).

            Maybe I just think differently than some folks in this business, but I don't get upset at marketers pulling the emotinal strings to make a sale, provided they are not scamming. Selling is all ABOUT emotions. People buy on emotion.

            At the end of the day, if you buy a product because the sales copy hit the right emotional hot button on you, it's still YOU that has to pull out the credit card, type all that info into the order form and hit BUY.

            Mike
            LMAO i said wrongly use my man.

            as in i have no clue what im talking about and i have no money, but you need to buy this secret formula becuase this is an investment in your furture your kids future,. never be poor again blah blah.

            same thing in fitness. showing a photoshop edited picture of a model and then a real picture to prove 40 lbs of fat loss.

            it is equally bullshit. but since this is an IM forum i started talking about IM scammers, would you like a link to posts i have made about fitness scmas on fitness forums?

            and why does this offend you so much? if you really know what you are doing, and you really profit from IM you have every right to teach it and promote it. but just the the fat trainer who has no right teach health and fitness, if you have no knowledge and expertise and success in this industry you dont need to pitch it.
            Signature

            I am only one, but still i am one; I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; And because I cant do everything I will not refuse to do the something that i can do.
            Sarasota Personal Trainers Sarasota Performance Trainers

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            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

              LMAO i said wrongly use my man.

              as in i have no clue what im talking about and i have no money, but you need to buy this secret formula becuase this is an investment in your furture your kids future,. never be poor again blah blah.

              same thing in fitness. showing a photoshop edited picture of a model and then a real picture to prove 40 lbs of fat loss.

              it is equally bullshit. but since this is an IM forum i started talking about IM scammers, would you like a link to posts i have made about fitness scmas on fitness forums?

              and why does this offend you so much? if you really know what you are doing, and you really profit from IM you have every right to teach it and promote it. but just the the fat trainer who has no right teach health and fitness, if you have no knowledge and expertise and success in this industry you dont need to pitch it.
              Ah, ok. I mis read.

              FWIW, I am not offended. Just stating my opinion. You've been around this forum a year (you said in your OP) I have been around 8 and have seen this all before... you get the idea.

              Nothing wrong with a good exchange of opinions and ideas.

              Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
          "You just need to be a good researcher and convey facts accurately. And not make false claims, of course"

          So is hype a false white lie

          I remember a few years back a guy was selling a ebook / software or something on how to get subscribers he claimed went something like this

          How I got 6892 subscribers in less than 24 hours blah blah blah

          People i call them sheepeople weak minded people who can be controlled
          into thinking if they buy this they can have the same results..

          Hype white lies half truths and full lies sold out in days

          inside secret how he got that many sign ups in a short time he had a
          mailing list of 68,000 people and sent a email to them sign up for free
          well out of that he had 6892 people sign up.

          did he lie?

          Was that ethical ?

          Was that just good marketing hype with out telling the complete story?

          The sheepeople are the ones to blame and there are a lot of hungry
          wolfs out there just waiting for you to come home and log on.

          Buyer beware what you read is not always the way it went down

          hope that helps

          Richard Dean
          creator of thank you page software 2003 don't be a dirt throwing fool
          go to Plugin Sales Generator to get yours .
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by RichardDean View Post

            hope that helps
            Not really Richard, but thanks for playing.

            I wasn't speaking of white lies, etc. I was speaking of that fact that people can and DO create a product without knowing a thing about it - every day - and have for years.

            And as long as they don't claim it as their own, or make false claims, I don't see a problem.

            Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Ruth Hendrickson
          Yes, there are IMers who are trying to "fake it till they make it". But you don't have to actually be making 10K a month to be able to tell others how to do it. Heck I've been around here long enough to tell you right now a number of ways to make 10K a month but I'm not there myself yet.

          I think the bottom line here is some people think they got ripped off. I was ripped off at the grocery store just last night. My co-worker today was griping about getting ripped off by her insurance company. Sometimes we get ripped off -- that's life.

          Some products here are better than others, and sometimes you do feel like you get ripped off. I can't even put a price on the amount of knowledge I've learned here, and many of the WSOs have been pure gold. And some have been not so good. I'd be willing to bet that even the gurus who put out the best products have had some duds.

          Beauty is in the eye of the beholder -- so is the value of a particular product. There was a thread here a few days ago where someone asked what is the very best ebook they have ever read. There were lots of ebook names given as the very best, but few were repeated.

          We're all here to learn and do the best we can, and some of us are further along the road than others.

          And now it's time for me to go to bed -- cause I have to get up early in the morning and go to my J.O.B. 'cause I'm not making that 10K a month yet. LOL
          _________________________________

          www.HowToMake10KAndQuitYourJobTomorrow.com
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        • Profile picture of the author Teddi77
          Hi All:

          Thanks for the great discussion! I've really enjoyed reading all the opinions, so I have to put in my 2 cents.

          Is the world free from scammers? I think not...Let the buyer beware has always been a good motto to go by when purchasing something from someone you don't know. One way to protect yourself is by getting to know the seller. As I'm sure you're aware, the web is a really anonymous place, full of possibly sinister, sneaky bad guys. But also, some really great generous, thoughtful, helpful, honest people.

          I think the secret in all this is to do your homework and research before you buy. I buy lots of stuff on the web, most of it quite good. But the really cool thing is that I also get a lot of really good free stuff. The only problem with the free stuff is you have to sift through it a bit. If you're on a tight budget, I really recommend the free stuff.

          I was recently reading a blog by a guy who paid $10,000 to a web guru for mentoring. And guess what? He was not given the details of how to actually implement the general concepts. He ended up having to figure that part out himself. I don't know if he asked for his money back, but he should have.

          One last thought. I like to learn and teach. I know how to make money many ways on the web including Adsense (have been earning money from one site for over 3 years), article marketing, affiliate marketing, SEO (one site in top ten on high traffic keyword for over 3 years), etc. But there are certain things I like to do and others that I don't. And as I said at the beginning of this paragraph, I'd rather teach or coach than sit around all day writing articles (which I have done with surprisingly good results).

          Thanks again to everyone here for giving me a chance to rant on about this stuff, these forums are great!

          Teddi
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

            BTW on the subject of school teachers, i know a few multi millionaires who didnt even graduate high school, teachers dont teach financial education buddy, our scholastic system is designed to produce employee's.

            check out rich dad poor dad itsa good read.
            Check out the author - he's a college graduate. As are most of his partners.

            And for every multimillionaire dropout, there are hundreds or thousands wiping cars or bagging groceries for minimum wage.

            Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

            Hoo, this is a hot one man!

            Be careful where you thread...now here's my opinion on this.

            1. Some people trying to sell you books about 30k then posting here they can't even sell 5k.

            We all get confused and scared sometimes. Have you ever thought that these people are warriors still on their way to success.

            They posted here, in the WARRIOR FORUM that they need help. To me it takes a lot of courage and humility to admit something and to ask for help than to keep pretending that your doing ok. That's what this forum is for.

            Also their posting here shows their transparency. What if their 30k formula doesnt sell well. Does that mean it doesnt work? or maybe it's just not advertised well? or maybe it still needs a few adjustment. Something you will only learn once you have actually marketed a product.

            Again, if you think they are scammers, think! would scammers come here asking for help explaining their products are not selling well? Real scammers won't do that they are shrewed enough to know better.

            Final word of advice, If ever you will sell a product in the future, say "10 easy ways to earn a Million a month" and sell it, then find out that after a week it isn't selling well, if you come here asking for some advice on how to market it so that it will get a better exposure.

            I will be the first one to help and list to you all of the SEO techniques and Article marketing techniques I've learned here, AND I WON'T EVEN TELL YOU OR HINT AT YOU THAT THE BOOK YOU WROTE IS A SCAM.

            This topic affects me quite a bit, coz this will dampen the spirit of newbies to try the IM world from the entry point of a book writer. You know why, the usual topic that comes to the minds of newbies is documenting step by step how they are able to make some cash from the internet.

            Be cool! Y'all

            ~RapidScc
            If you truly believe asking for help on a forum is a sign of honesty, I have a real estate investment you have got to see. Of course, we'll have to wait for low tide to see it.:p

            I'm convinced that a fair percentage of the people asking for site reviews, etc. are simply looking for traffic. Asking for copy help is one way to get people to closely read the copy.

            Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

            Well i dont know too many personal trainers that show up with fat ass's, but i can show you 5 or 6 threads in the last few days on here with people selling anything from how to get massive traffic (asking how to get a vistor to their website) to how to make massive money (asking why they cant get a sale)

            Lets not make this a battle of industry, both these industries IMO many times wrongfully target the emotions of consumers to sell their shit.
            From my perspective, it depends on the product.

            For example, the forex market is hot right now. If someone is marketing a system for making money using forex, and has trouble with SEO or conversions, I don't judge them a scammer.

            Extending that, if someone has a talent for generating traffic with article writing and wants help with a PPC campaign, I have no problem with that.

            Now if someone comes on the forum and pleads poverty, and their sig says they can teach me to make $10,000 a month in 30 days, on a freaking marketing forum, now I got a problem. That person is going to have to do a lot to regain any credibility with me.

            As far as the "don't teach if you can't do" mantra goes, take a look at most of professional athletics. Some of the greatest coaches were marginal players at best. But they do know their stuff, and they know how to teach more talented athletes to get the most from their talents.

            I could teach you the basics of writing a sales letter or squeeze page, but I'm hardly a Frank Kern or John Carlton. However, I never make promises about what results you'll get following what I teach.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jim M
          The challenge within this marketplace is that the easy option for many is to hop on to the resell / affiliate / whatever the easiest route is - option - therefore we all become rapid consumers of information that we never actually make use of (myself included until I saw the light).

          So - while the biggest slice of the pie is where potential IM'ers are looking for the next quick fix - like drug dealers - there will always be someone happy to sell them a product that purports to fulfill their needs.
          Signature
          Jim Montgomery www.fivestarmarketing.eu - video tutorials and more DavidJamesPublishing.Com
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        • Profile picture of the author louiefrias
          Hmmm. You might be right...Is there reallay a way to "Know for sure" if an IM'er is making 6 figures? Or a substantial living doing this? Who knows...that's why it's always safe to have a back up plan.

          I Do know this, much of the advise from a bunch of Imers adds up...I'm building a great list by utilizing the teleseminar format as well as making a name for myself with the "Guru's" I'm so fortunate to interview.

          You can listen in at: www.8WeeksAway.com

          Good luck to everyone studying hard.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Neale
            Louie did you actually contact these people and do a teleseminar with them yourself or is this a product that you purchased and use to build a list?

            Either way it's a good idea but if the former.... that's a lot of work and congratulations.


            Originally Posted by louiefrias View Post

            Hmmm. You might be right...Is there reallay a way to "Know for sure" if an IM'er is making 6 figures? Or a substantial living doing this? Who knows...that's why it's always safe to have a back up plan.

            I Do know this, much of the advise from a bunch of Imers adds up...I'm building a great list by utilizing the teleseminar format as well as making a name for myself with the "Guru's" I'm so fortunate to interview.

            You can listen in at: www.8WeeksAway.com

            Good luck to everyone studying hard.
            Signature

            David Neale

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  • Profile picture of the author mrichards1984
    Well, I don't know if people would share their money secret for $97 or $7..

    I'm making some decent money online and nowadays experimenting with some new methods which is costing me some money..

    But the point is if I struck GOLD, I wouldn't share the secret as I will not want that method to get saturated.

    On the other hand if the method is such that it can't be saturated then I guess I wouldn't mind sharing it for free or maybe even make some quick buck.

    I guess I answered myself But most of the ebooks that claim huge amount are scams unfortunatley
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      It never ceases to amaze me how this topic always seems to rear it's ugly
      head.

      I'm not going to stand here and try to defend myself against the "those
      who teach can't do sh*t" crowd. Just ask some of the folks whose products
      I sell and they'll tell you straight to your face that I can do.

      So why should I not teach?

      Guess what?

      If we didn't have any teachers, 99% of you couldn't do jack sh*t because
      you couldn't figure out SEO from J-LO.

      Yeah, there are some con artists in this field. But there are some damn
      smart people who know their sh*t and quite honestly, I'm getting tired of
      this debate. It's old and it doesn't wash.

      Send your kids to school and see if they can get a freakin education
      without teachers, of whom my wife happens to be one of them.
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      • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        It never ceases to amaze me how this topic always seems to rear it's ugly
        head.

        I'm not going to stand here and try to defend myself against the "those
        who teach can't do sh*t" crowd. Just ask some of the folks whose products
        I sell and they'll tell you straight to your face that I can do.

        So why should I not teach?

        Guess what?

        If we didn't have any teachers, 99% of you couldn't do jack sh*t because
        you couldn't figure out SEO from J-LO.

        Yeah, there are some con artists in this field. But there are some damn
        smart people who know their sh*t and quite honestly, I'm getting tired of
        this debate. It's old and it doesn't wash.

        Send your kids to school and see if they can get a freakin education
        without teachers, of whom my wife happens to be one of them.

        If you'll note i said affiliate sales are different.

        if you are successful you have every right to teach. and i would want to learn from a successful affiliate marketer or anyone who is actually successful.

        all i said is that when someone who doesnt know jack shit about making money on line tries to sell a product they created on making money is in the wrong. please dont take offense, i am sorry for the confusion, and again i was not aiming to offend "successful" marketers who teach.

        i have a problem with people writing a book caled make 10k a month online and they cant even figure out how to sell it.
        Signature

        I am only one, but still i am one; I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; And because I cant do everything I will not refuse to do the something that i can do.
        Sarasota Personal Trainers Sarasota Performance Trainers

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post


          i have a problem with people writing a book caled make 10k a month online and they cant even figure out how to sell it.

          Know what? I have a big freakin problem with that too, but I don't dwell
          on it. I can tell horsesh*t when I buy it. If it is, I refund it. If more people
          did that, we wouldn't have so many people running around selling sh*t that
          isn't even good toilet paper. But the buying public is just to blame for this
          crap. They buy something, sometimes don't even bother to read it, and when
          they do, half the time, they don't even try the sh*t to see if it works.

          Know how many people have bought some of my products and THREE YEARS
          LATER write to me and say, I bought your "whatever" 3 years ago and I
          wanted to start using it but I can't find it. Can you send me another copy?

          It's freakin unbelievable the laziness of so many people.

          If they would start returning half the stuff that they bought that really
          WAS garbage, and spread the word about this crap, these people would
          go out of business.

          I got a hold of Nitro Marketing Blueprint a while ago. It is SOLID. If you
          can't make money following this plan, you're in the wrong business. I'd
          put my reputation on the line and recommend that product to anybody.

          Yeah, there is crap out there, but there is also some damn good stuff and
          I personally don't care if Kevin Wilke does this crap or not...I KNOW it
          works.
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          • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Know what? I have a big freakin problem with that too, but I don't dwell
            on it. I can tell horsesh*t when I buy it. If it is, I refund it. If more people
            did that, we wouldn't have so many people running around selling sh*t that
            isn't even good toilet paper. But the buying public is just to blame for this
            crap. They buy something, sometimes don't even bother to read it, and when
            they do, half the time, they don't even try the sh*t to see if it works.

            Know how many people have bought some of my products and THREE YEARS
            LATER write to me and say, I bought your "whatever" 3 years ago and I
            wanted to start using it but I can't find it. Can you send me another copy?

            It's freakin unbelievable the laziness of so many people.

            If they would start returning half the stuff that they bought that really
            WAS garbage, and spread the word about this crap, these people would
            go out of business.

            I got a hold of Nitro Marketing Blueprint a while ago. It is SOLID. If you
            can't make money following this plan, you're in the wrong business. I'd
            put my reputation on the line and recommend that product to anybody.

            Yeah, there is crap out there, but there is also some damn good stuff and
            I personally don't care if Kevin Wilke does this crap or not...I KNOW it
            works.

            yeah i guess that pretty much sums it up. amen.
            Signature

            I am only one, but still i am one; I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; And because I cant do everything I will not refuse to do the something that i can do.
            Sarasota Personal Trainers Sarasota Performance Trainers

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      • Profile picture of the author zerofill
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        It never ceases to amaze me how this topic always seems to rear it's ugly
        head.

        I'm not going to stand here and try to defend myself against the "those
        who teach can't do sh*t" crowd. Just ask some of the folks whose products
        I sell and they'll tell you straight to your face that I can do.

        So why should I not teach?

        Guess what?

        If we didn't have any teachers, 99% of you couldn't do jack sh*t because
        you couldn't figure out SEO from J-LO.

        Yeah, there are some con artists in this field. But there are some damn
        smart people who know their sh*t and quite honestly, I'm getting tired of
        this debate. It's old and it doesn't wash.

        Send your kids to school and see if they can get a freakin education
        without teachers, of whom my wife happens to be one of them.
        True Steven...and the people teaching usually make less because they are so busy teaching, and answering questions... they don't have time to put many of the things they know into effect.

        But they love to teach...many people love to teach.
        Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by mrichards1984 View Post

        Well, I don't know if people would share their money secret for $97 or $7..

        I'm making some decent money online and nowadays experimenting with some new methods which is costing me some money..

        But the point is if I struck GOLD, I wouldn't share the secret as I will not want that method to get saturated.

        On the other hand if the method is such that it can't be saturated then I guess I wouldn't mind sharing it for free or maybe even make some quick buck.

        I guess I answered myself But most of the ebooks that claim huge amount are scams unfortunatley
        As you might guess from my avatar, I'm a fishing junkie. So here's an example from that world...

        There's a hard-fighting, great-tasting fish out in the Gulf called a grouper. Grouper like to hang out over and in structure - something different about the bottom. Most of the Gulf bottom, at least until it gets several hundred feet deep, is smooth, rolling sand. If you took the water away, it would look like Nebraska or Kansas.

        Scattered around this underwater desert are little limestone ledges, rock piles, artificial reefs and shipwrecks. These break up the bottom, and attract grouper and other structure-loving fish.

        The pros who make their living taking boatless people like me fishing will have a catalog of these spots, gathered over years of experience. You have as much chance of scoring a look at that book as you do a date with their teenage daughter.

        These same pros will happily spend time teaching you exactly how to catch fish over the wrecks and reefs. They'll show you the exact tools they use and how to use them.

        The teachers od 'how to make money' that are worth listening to are like those fishing pros...

        They'll teach you how to sell something. They'll show you the tools they use and demonstrate how to use them effectively. They'll show you how to find markets you can work in. Mostly, though, they will not share the exact combination of market and method that butters their bread.

        One of the head boats I like to go out on has a sign staring you in the face as you board the boat...

        "Leave your GPS unit on shore. They never operate properly under 60 feet of water."
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        • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          As you might guess from my avatar, I'm a fishing junkie. So here's an example from that world...

          ...These same pros will happily spend time teaching you exactly how to catch fish over the wrecks and reefs. They'll show you the exact tools they use and how to use them.

          The teachers of 'how to make money' that are worth listening to are like those fishing pros...

          They'll teach you how to sell something. They'll show you the tools they use and demonstrate how to use them effectively. They'll show you how to find markets you can work in. Mostly, though, they will not share the exact combination of market and method that butters their bread.

          One of the head boats I like to go out on has a sign staring you in the face as you board the boat...

          "Leave your GPS unit on shore. They never operate properly under 60 feet of water."
          Excellent analogy John!

          If, however, you were "boated" as opposed to "boatless" you've learned enough that you can apply your own research to the problem and, with time and application, find your own grouper or niche.

          Spend even more time and effort and you can append "Captain" or "Guru" to your name.

          Elmer
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by Elmer Hurlstone View Post

            Excellent analogy John!

            If, however, you were "boated" as opposed to "boatless" you've learned enough that you can apply your own research to the problem and, with time and application, find your own grouper or niche.

            Spend even more time and effort and you can append "Captain" or "Guru" to your name.

            Elmer
            Thanks, Elmer...

            You are right. If I had a boat, I would know enough to find my own secret spots. And I would be just as reluctant to share them.

            The truth is, even without explicitly sharing their spots, many of the operators I fish with have pointed to good starting points. With a wristwatch and a map, I can come close enough to start my research to save myself a lot of time.

            And by spending my time watching and carefully noting how the captain and mate operate, I have a pretty good idea how to check out a spot and work it once I do get my boat.

            Translating that into the IM market...

            When a Frank Kern or John Reese puts out a promotional how-to video showing how they approach an example market, pay less attention to the market itself and more to what they do and how they do it. How deep do they drill? How much competition is too much? What kind of result signals a go/no go decision?

            When Eben Pagan let out on a video that 'one of his campaigns had an autoresponder series that ran for more than a year', I took a guess that that product was the only one I'd seen him acknowledge - Double Your Dating. So I opted in, even though I've been happily married for over 27 years. I'm watching that campaign unfold and building my own model for entering niche markets like that.

            Someday, I will indeed be "Cap'n John", with a fine fishing boat or two to play with.
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      • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        If we didn't have any teachers, 99% of you couldn't do jack sh*t because
        you couldn't figure out SEO from J-LO.
        Steven I have just one question for you that's really beginning to plague my mind.

        What is the difference between SEO and J-LO?

        Does it have something to do with Kevin Riley and hamsters?

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
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        • Profile picture of the author Glenn Newsome
          Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

          Steven I have just one question for you that's really beginning to plague my mind.

          What is the difference between SEO and J-LO?

          Does it have something to do with Kevin Riley and hamsters?

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
          SEO and J-LO both have beautiful features, some big, but trying to figure out how each one works is the problem. I think maybe SEO is easier-

          Kevin Riley and his gansta hamsters ALWAYS have something to do with it-
          Signature
          WSO Addicts Blog

          AKA "webnetincome" before the big name changes!
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          • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
            Hoo, this is a hot one man!

            Be careful where you thread...now here's my opinion on this.

            1. Some people trying to sell you books about 30k then posting here they can't even sell 5k.

            We all get confused and scared sometimes. Have you ever thought that these people are warriors still on their way to success.

            They posted here, in the WARRIOR FORUM that they need help. To me it takes a lot of courage and humility to admit something and to ask for help than to keep pretending that your doing ok. That's what this forum is for.

            Also their posting here shows their transparency. What if their 30k formula doesnt sell well. Does that mean it doesnt work? or maybe it's just not advertised well? or maybe it still needs a few adjustment. Something you will only learn once you have actually marketed a product.

            Again, if you think they are scammers, think! would scammers come here asking for help explaining their products are not selling well? Real scammers won't do that they are shrewed enough to know better.

            Final word of advice, If ever you will sell a product in the future, say "10 easy ways to earn a Million a month" and sell it, then find out that after a week it isn't selling well, if you come here asking for some advice on how to market it so that it will get a better exposure.

            I will be the first one to help and list to you all of the SEO techniques and Article marketing techniques I've learned here, AND I WON'T EVEN TELL YOU OR HINT AT YOU THAT THE BOOK YOU WROTE IS A SCAM.

            This topic affects me quite a bit, coz this will dampen the spirit of newbies to try the IM world from the entry point of a book writer. You know why, the usual topic that comes to the minds of newbies is documenting step by step how they are able to make some cash from the internet.

            Be cool! Y'all

            ~RapidScc
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

          Steven I have just one question for you that's really beginning to plague my mind.

          What is the difference between SEO and J-LO?

          Does it have something to do with Kevin Riley and hamsters?

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
          You're one of the funniest guys I know...LOL!

          Mike
          Signature

          Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

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      • Profile picture of the author davezan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        you couldn't figure out SEO from J-LO.
        That got me laughing, Steven.

        IMHO, IRON_STRONG, it's like anything else in life: you learn and research all
        you can, you take risks, you win and lose some, you learn from your mistakes
        and be wiser, and carry on. Only you can determine on your own what's good
        and what isn't out there, but everyone's got their own criteria for such.

        For the potential scammers, try to avoid them. If you do fall victim, then just
        do what you can under the circumstances.
        Signature

        David

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        • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Einstein could do things that nobody else could do, but he had to learn basic math and science from somebody. Those people who taught him couldn't do what he did, yet, they helped make him the person that he became.

          Teachers don't have to be able to do in order to teach. Case closed.
          Might want to open that case back up Steven.

          The teachers who taught Einstein basic Math and Science did not teach Einstein all the things that Einstein did, they taught him basic Math and Science. And to do that, they most certainly could do basic Math and Science.

          Yes, there are cases where teachers don't have to be able to do, to teach. But your example is not one of those cases.

          And as far as the Making Money niche goes, a smarter man would choose the teacher who actually 'does'.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

            Might want to open that case back up Steven.

            The teachers who taught Einstein basic Math and Science did not teach Einstein all the things that Einstein did, they taught him basic Math and Science. And to do that, they most certainly could do basic Math and Science.

            So, maybe there are some cases where teachers don't have to be able to do, to teach. But your example is not one of those cases.

            And as far as the Making Money niche goes, a smarter man would choose the teacher who actually 'does'.
            Not to be argumentative, but I knew quite a few teachers in my day that had hardly a clue about a subject they were teaching (think "substitute" as one example...).

            They simply followed lesson plans written out by someone else.

            In my former off-line life, I used to give training seminars on equipment I knew nothing about. I would spend a few hours getting trained on it myself the day before giving the training in fact.

            Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author zerofill
      I can tell you how to get paid at least $0.02 per minute on inbound traffic to a telecom company...I could write an ebook on it...
      You can make 20-30k a month doing it too...
      BUT...I don't do it...
      But I know how...and have done it in the past...
      But don't ever plan on sleeping again....
      And there are legit ways and I guess you could call them blackhat ways...

      But I F'n hate telecom...So I don't do it...that and the sheer amount of time consumed in your life to do it will make you want to hang yourself...

      Doesn't mean you can't do it though lol...

      And all that suffering will only cost you $197
      And whatever you pay to do all the outsourcing to set it up if you don't know anything about telecom.
      Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    BTW on the subject of school teachers, i know a few multi millionaires who didnt even graduate high school, teachers dont teach financial education buddy, our scholastic system is designed to produce employee's.

    check out rich dad poor dad itsa good read.
    Signature

    I am only one, but still i am one; I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; And because I cant do everything I will not refuse to do the something that i can do.
    Sarasota Personal Trainers Sarasota Performance Trainers

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    • Profile picture of the author zerofill
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      BTW on the subject of school teachers, i know a few multi millionaires who didnt even graduate high school, teachers dont teach financial education buddy, our scholastic system is designed to produce employee's.

      check out rich dad poor dad itsa good read.
      That doesn't really count either...I know kids 18 years old in the mortgage industry that don't even have GEDs in the crooked brokerage I know of...they make 6 figures selling mortgages...
      They can sell aggressively and make money...
      They are dumber than dirt though...when it comes to just about everything except for being smartasses...and disespectful and aggressive.
      Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Dick Doe
    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

    all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

    i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

    can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?
    Well, scam artists are there even in the weight loss niche but I agree in IM there are some more of them. Of course your opinion is based on only a select number of marketers you might have interacted with, because most of the Imers I have met and worked with are honest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?
    LOL, as if the fitness industry doesn't have problems like the ones you mentioned!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Hillage
    Couldn't agree more - if you're not making $5k per month for goodness sake don't PRETEND that you are!! But to be honest people are very soon exposed, but it can be a pain for those who have to do that exposing (ie buying crap products).
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    yes I agree Its kind of comical. this type of internet marketer wont last long and will give up soon back to their jobs. they will tell everyone that it dosent work and its a scam. while the true internet marketers laugh to the bank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    With your specific example, yes I can understand your frustration. But this is far from the only industry with snake oil sales people. I've sold stocks, different kinds of investments, and life insurance and I met more shady, unethical people during my time with different companies than I care to remember (on the sell side and buy side). Trust me, the fitness industry is full of unethical people too. One example of one recent bust was a company using pregnant women in their before and after pictures when trying to sell their weight loss product.

    One has to be very wary and cautious when dealing with products and people in IM, shoot, in general too. I've been burned so many times over the past decade that I'm suspicious of all strangers. Luckily it's a lot less now since I've learned to do much better research and can spot a BSer a mile away now.

    RoD

    p.s. Steve W. excellent point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      There seems to be an awful lot of defensiveness from some members about Iron_Strong's point of view.

      I happen to agree as well, and the topic has been covered here several times by many of the veteran members, especially with WSO's.

      It is easy enough to do a quick check of someones profile here, and read through their recent posts, and determine their level of knowledge in certain areas.

      Personally, I've found that looking closer into ones posts will also allow you to gauge their temperament, and weather or not it is worth while to do business with them, (Hot Heads and Jerks could be a problem).

      Also consider your skill set, if someone is great at setting up Wordpress blogs, that is a very marketable skill, however , to those whom have built hundreds of their own blogs, that service would be useless to them.

      Ultimately this is still a free and public forum, all sorts of people come here to learn and grow their business.

      Take everything you read here with a grain of salt, take the time to research and scrutinize any and all offers. Get to know the veterans and search their posts, you'll find plenty of great tips.

      Best!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Westbrook
    Thanks for this thread, it struck a chord with me!
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Newsome
      They very well may have the best idea, product, etc. in the world. They are here asking advice on how to make their sales page convert to buyers.

      Both are totally different categories. Product=great, Salespage=not so great.
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    LOL - look im not trying to break anyone's dreams here, and to be quite honest if some guy on a forum can stop you from accomplishing your dream with an honest question on how one can be an expert at somthing he has never even had success with, than he or she would not have accomplished their dreams anyway.

    I understand asking for advice, shit i did the other day, and i did recieve alot of advice. However i would NEVER try to create a product and sell it that i had no knowledge of.

    so to any one this may have offended dont go getting your heart broken, its a very real question and one you all may want to ask yourself. then ask what your customers are going to think about you if they find out whats really going on.


    This brings up another point. When i was in high school i had a coach tell me that i should not bother working my calves in the weight room it wouldnt help my speed or power. i responded with the fact that my step father walked on to the falcons at the age of 25 and one of the biggest parts of their training routine was on the development of strength and power in the calve muscle. he then responded with "pro's dont know what they are talking about they are just in shape" i then responded with "why are you coaching at the high school level making an extra dollar an hour if you know so much.

    DONT TRY TO TEACH SOMEBODY SOMTHING unless you know what the f*ck you are doing. that is my whole point here people, i don't care who it offends thats the truth you all know it.

    if you dont know what you are doing you dont need to try and take someones money to teach them how to do it. that my freinds IS a scam artist.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      However i would NEVER try to create a product and sell it that i had no knowledge of.
      Why not? This goes on in every business. In fact, one well-known marketer made a fortune selling a book on how to teach a parrot to talk - and he never owned a parrot or taught one to talk himself.

      He researched and got answers from actual experts and created a product.

      I see nothing wrong with this, provided you are not claiming anything that isn't true.

      Using the parrot example, if he said:

      "Teach Your Parrot To Talk Quickly and Easily"

      That's 100% different than saying:

      "You Can Teach Your Parrot To Talk Using My Own Closely Guarded, Secret Methods"

      You DON'T have to be an expert in your chosen niche. You just need to be a good researcher and convey facts accurately. And not make false claims, of course.

      My 2c, anyway.

      Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      I had quite a few teachers in my day that had hardly a clue about the subject they were teaching.
      Well that explains your post, now doesn't it Mike.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Well that explains your post, now doesn't it Mike.

        LOL - touche...
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    i suppose its the fact that if i am selling my *expertise* *knowledge* or *skill* i feel that i should truly posses that trait.

    you obviously dont feel the same. thats your opinion the preceeding is mine.

    thats my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
      BTW the is really quite fun, and during this discussion i have found a wonderful product that i have found to be 100% backed by knowledgeable experienced and truthful creators. they in fact practice what they preach and obviously over deliver - my thanks to Steven for that Nitro Marketing suggestion!
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      i suppose its the fact that if i am selling my *expertise* *knowledge* or *skill* i feel that i should truly posses that trait.

      you obviously dont feel the same. thats your opinion the preceeding is mine.

      thats my 2 cents.
      No, that's a LOT of peoples opinion.

      But, I digress here too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

    all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

    i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

    can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?

    There are a lot of SCAMS in the fitness industry as well... Does Diet Pills ring a bell? or how about "Lose weight without exercise" and so on...

    Come on dude, every market has their shady characters, you just have to do your own Due Diligence on products before you purchase.

    Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    like i said, i understand that this is just the first oppourtunity i have had to see someone claiming they have a method for becoming rich and prosperous backed with testimonials and personal bank statements, that comes on the forum and asks why he cant make a sale.

    trust me i know plenty of scam artists in my industry and quite frankly i bank becuase of them, people realize real quick whats real and whats not the proof is in your body.
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    Absolutely mike! nothing like a good exchange on a forum. And 8 years is great - if i had 8 years in the IM industry i think i may be confident enough to sell products and services in it. obviously you are well off in the knowledge department.

    I hanbg around here so i can learn how to build my internet business. learned alot so far, and not surprisingly most of what i have laerned has come from old timers and those with 500 or more posts to their name.

    anyway to the CREDIT of this forum and all of the IM experts here i have learne enough to finally start building a very profitable busines in the fitness industry with my online chapter starting within the next few months with a great front end product and service and an even better backend - recurring membership upsell and bonus!

    so thank you all! (now that i have pissed every IM GURU off lol) im not an ass hole all the time - honest...
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
    Please speak of these white lies then I would love you to explain why hype is the truth?

    So
    white lies in copy is that OK

    Hype in copy is that ok

    Half truth is that ok

    What one do you like to use the best

    how about this there is no other software on the market like it I hear that a lot


    Richard Dean
    creator of thank you page software 2003 don't be a dirt throwing fool
    go to Plugin Sales Generator to get yours .
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by RichardDean View Post

      Please speak of these white lies then I would love you to explain why hype is the truth?

      So
      white lies in copy is that OK

      Hype in copy is that ok

      Half truth is that ok

      What one do you like to use the best

      how about this there is no other software on the market like it I hear that a lot


      Richard Dean
      creator of thank you page software 2003 don't be a dirt throwing fool
      go to Plugin Sales Generator to get yours .
      I STILL have no idea what you're referring to. But I can see further replies would be futile - so I will refrain after this one.

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Raphael1988
    Quick Question: Am I getting scammed?

    Well, I just recently dicovered an interesting program that I also happened to join. You become an affiliate to the company and basically you run your own website. Have 10 different e-mail addresses or give some to friends and family. The cool thing about it is I only have to pay $10 a month, and if I get other people to join and have their own website and they pay the same as I do, but I can aslo earn cash from them and the people they tell about it as well. 50% of the $10 goes into commission to the sponsors who refered people and so on and so forth, and it goes in 5 layers. $1 per person per month. And I'm only doing this in my free time. I'll continue this in more detail later if there is any positive feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
    Just asking what you think is ok the title of the post is

    I have a bit of a problem with alot of IM'ers

    You were up so I asked you

    So
    white lies in copy is that OK

    Hype in copy is that ok

    Half truth is that ok

    What one do you like to use the best

    how about this
    there is no other software on the market like it
    I hear that a lot

    thanks for playing anyway


    Richard Dean
    creator of thank you page software 2003 don't be a dirt throwing fool
    go to Plugin Sales Generator to get yours .
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    Typical.

    anyway i think i'll retire on that note. LOL.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      Typical.

      anyway i think i'll retire on that note. LOL.

      Hit the nail on the head

      If I was all hyped white lie half truth I would have said

      My 2 year old drove a nail through a tree with nothing in hand and only wearing his diaper, secret exposed how you can to, send me a PM to find out how.

      Richard Dean
      I have the only software for sale that will put thank you page ads on JV sites and you can run the whole thing from admin panel chnage edit check stats on the fly from any where in the world. Plugin Sales Generator
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  • Profile picture of the author warner444
    I put a lot of stock in checking people's backgrounds. After a while you will get to know who is blowing hot air and who is consistently providing value..

    Forums, social sites, Google searches can turn up a lot of information.

    Their real track records speak the truth and this can be found.

    People often tip their hand with who they associate with and who they look up to as well.

    You can always ask here and other forums if someone has tried this or that product. There is a separate forum section just about products.

    It is very easy for anyone to say anything on the internet. Their history follows them though.
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

    all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

    i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

    can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?

    No offense bro,

    But if you've been hangin' on this Warrior Forum for almost a year...and aint figured out how to seperate hype and pretty pictures from products and marketers of substance....then I'm gonna be straight with you'se.......

    This probably aint the business for you. For real.

    And while your bitterness is genuine I'm sure....it's also an indication of why this business aint for you.

    Your rant.... while correct in many aspects for sure.....also speaks loudly about your own personal frustration and lack of progress. So what are you really angry about the most? I'm guessin' it's more to do with your own lack of progress then the average scum bag sellin' dreams he can't deliver etc.

    You need to determine that what the rest of the world does, says, or sells....aint gonna have no influence on your life...and take it from there.

    And you need to learn from people who are selling real solutions....not theory. There are a lot of good honest marketers on this forum...who do have integrity.

    After a year....you should have found them by now. Maybe you're not looking too hard.

    xxx Vegas Vince
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    • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
      Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

      No offense bro,

      But if you've been hangin' on this Warrior Forum for almost a year...and aint figured out how to seperate hype and pretty pictures from products and marketers of substance....then I'm gonna be straight with you'se.......

      This probably aint the business for you. For real.

      And while your bitterness is genuine I'm sure....it's also an indication of why this business aint for you.

      Your rant.... while correct in many aspects for sure.....also speaks loudly about your own personal frustration and lack of progress. So what are you really angry about the most? I'm guessin' it's more to do with your own lack of progress then the average scum bag sellin' dreams he can't deliver etc.

      You need to determine that what the rest of the world does, says, or sells....aint gonna have no influence on your life...and take it from there.

      And you need to learn from people who are selling real solutions....not theory. There are a lot of good honest marketers on this forum...who do have integrity.

      After a year....you should have found them by now. Maybe you're not looking too hard.

      xxx Vegas Vince
      Didnt know stating an opinion about somtheing was ranting... shit more people who are defending themselves came on here to rant than i did.

      Secondly over the last year and 2 months now i have sold over 100 grand in personal training services, along with 10 or 12 total gyms countless supplements and vitamins, and i have delivered high quality, results proven services to EVERY client. i have testimonials from EVERY client i have trained, and i have done this all as i just turned 20 years of age in august.

      and that is only possible becuase of my knowledge and expertise in the feild of performance enhancement and the human body. you see i took class's, read over 300 books, got certifications from multiple agenices and practiced my theories and methods on over 20 people with documentation of the preceeding over 2 years time. im quite confident in my services becuase of my knowledge and expertise in the field.

      And yes, i am frustrated with ONLINE BUSINESS, it is completely different from offline business, and YES IM is not the industry for me - i dont feel right telling someone how to get rich on the internet when i havent yet, and i damn sure dont feel right taking someones hard eanred money to do so.

      you see you can only scam your way through what i do so long before you dont have any more clientele. In Person to Person business where you actaully have to face your customer its a bit harder to keep a client trying to deliver on empty promises.

      on the net you can make an entirely new identity for yourself, wirte a book about somthing you have no clue about and sell it and bank off the sorry smucks looking to get rich tomorrow. then if it crashes you can do it again over night.


      so before you go insulting anyone else STFU.
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      • Profile picture of the author RenaissanceMan
        practically everything people teach can be learned for free online if you research hard enough

        I learned how to build a 10k+ a month business without the help of any teacher.

        I have a theory that those who really want a change from the norm are going to do anything in their power to get there.... those who want to keep dreaming and living their same life will buy any eBook promising them the moon... (DREAMERS) the sad part is most wont even read or follow what's in that eBook... instead they will just run here and call it a scam!

        not all, but a lot of you need to look at yourself in the mirror before you rant about others on here.

        by the way, I love the WF =)
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by RenaissanceMan View Post

          practically everything people teach can be learned for free online if you research hard enough

          I learned how to build a 10k+ a month business without the help of any teacher.

          Great, congrats however the majority of people are lazy and it doesn't matter what's on the line. They want things done for them.

          When someone does research for free to figure things out if could take them years because they have no clue what they are looking for. An info. product has all the research done for you and exactly what it is they need to learn, etc...

          So people are willing to pay for the convenience of having al that info. in one place and not have to worry about going to find it and still not know if its correct or not.

          Mike Hill

          PS. Sh*t I can't believe I spent my 1,000 post replying to this... LOL (No Offense)
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      • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
        Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

        Didnt know stating an opinion about somtheing was ranting... shit more people who are defending themselves came on here to rant than i did.

        Secondly over the last year and 2 months now i have sold over 100 grand in personal training services, along with 10 or 12 total gyms countless supplements and vitamins, and i have delivered high quality, results proven services to EVERY client. i have testimonials from EVERY client i have trained, and i have done this all as i just turned 20 years of age in august.

        and that is only possible becuase of my knowledge and expertise in the feild of performance enhancement and the human body. you see i took class's, read over 300 books, got certifications from multiple agenices and practiced my theories and methods on over 20 people with documentation of the preceeding over 2 years time. im quite confident in my services becuase of my knowledge and expertise in the field.

        And yes, i am frustrated with ONLINE BUSINESS, it is completely different from offline business, and YES IM is not the industry for me - i dont feel right telling someone how to get rich on the internet when i havent yet, and i damn sure dont feel right taking someones hard eanred money to do so.

        you see you can only scam your way through what i do so long before you dont have any more clientele. In Person to Person business where you actaully have to face your customer its a bit harder to keep a client trying to deliver on empty promises.

        on the net you can make an entirely new identity for yourself, wirte a book about somthing you have no clue about and sell it and bank off the sorry smucks looking to get rich tomorrow. then if it crashes you can do it again over night.


        so before you go insulting anyone else STFU.
        Looks to me like Vince offered some good advice and not an insult.

        Certainly nothing to warrant a "STFU" which really is insulting.

        You claimed that you weren't ranting just expressing an opinion and that's one thing.

        But when you begin to insult regular contibutors on the board for just expressing their opinions while accusing them of being insulting instead,

        there's not really any excuse for that verbal abuse.

        I know you may be kind of young now and may still be learning the
        healthiest ways for your business to promote it and have experienced some early success, but never forget it's always healthier for your business

        to be professionally courteous publicly and to show respect to your peers
        regardless of industry.

        Rule #1-If you have a problem with another person, forum member or even God, don't post it here.

        So yeah, what you posted was a rant and you wasted no time disrespecting the owner of the forum himself beginning with your thread title "I have a problem with" and then insult someone
        who offered some good advice.





        a little common courtesy and respect can help your business
        go much further than insulting those who have a differing opinion on an issue no matter how right you think you are, may be or how wrong you think someone else is.

        I trust this advice proves to be helpful in consideration of future forum etiquette.
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    let me make this perfectly clear - this thread is not aimed at REAL honest marketers, gurus and people with proven track records. NO OFFENSE TO ANY SUCCESSFUL KNOWLEDGEABLE INTERNT MARKETERS. if you dont offer a service or product that you have absoltly no clue about this should not offend you in any way whatsoever.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      as in i have no clue what im talking about and i have no money, but you need to buy this secret formula becuase this is an investment in your furture your kids future,. never be poor again blah blah.
      So - do you still believe that type of marketing? Of course not. Treat it as "static", ignore it and move on. There are those who offer valuable products - and those who are just trying to make a few bucks however they can. Which ones do you pay attention to? Why worry about the rest? Perhaps the most common mistake of brand new marketers is the tendency to immediately try to sell "make money" products - but they do it quite often.

      IM isn't JUST "make money products". Internet marketing is anything you sell online - may be physical products, training products, informational products. However, if you like blue widgets - there's no sense being upset because someone sells only red widgets. It's not productive.

      I agree with you that there is an overabundance of "make big $$$ in ### hours" offers - but ignoring them is quite easy to do. It does no good to worry about what others do or don't do - what they sell or try to sell. You control only what you do - and your own reaction to the over-hyped products.

      Once you have realized that "quick easy money" is a pipe dream, you can just smile at those offers and move on to build a real business.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    funny thing is, i havent bought a product or ebook i have been disatissfied with in quite sometime, I HAVE learned to separate bullshit from SOLID gold, BTW i learned how to do that from the forum, and most times i can come here run a search and find out who is actually selling the thing.

    ANYway - im out, Pe@ce!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mal Keenan
    Yes, I do understand where you're coming from.

    Many on this forum and others like it are 'fake it 'til you make it' types. They pretend to be experts only to make sales and build their reputation. Provided they don't get caught out they may well make it into the 'big time'.

    I make a good living as an internet marketer. I have never pretended otherwise, simply because it wouldn't be true. I work hard and spend many hours daily learning more, interacting with other marketers and building my business.

    I try to give advice here where I have had experience. A bullshitter gives advice from what they've read about other more successful people doing. There's a difference, imho. They are parroting.

    I love this business because of the freedom it gives me and I try to get that across in what I personally write.

    You can generally tell the BS artists from the rest. You're learning already.

    Your best bet is probably to stick to the recognisable names. Mike Filsaime, John Reese and many others are in a different league and at the top of this business. They are also known for producing great products. You will pay extra but at least then you know what you're getting.

    Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

    Yeah so i have been around this forum for going close to a year, i just recently started psoting and interacting, and one thing that seriously jerks my chain is this:

    all over, and yes many people throughout this forum, people are 'essentially' selling money - "how to get rich using blah blah" "how to make 30K a month using blah blah" many titles like these, and then i see the very creator of these products on how to get a flood of traffic and how to make killer money, here at the forum begging for reviews of their product and pledding for help when their product doesnt sell, their copy doesnt convert and they are making NO MONEY.

    i have to be completely honest and say this is the only industry i have ever seen that has so many scam artisits. and yes - if you are selling an ebook on how to make 30K a month and you are not making 5k a month using the same methods you are a scam artisit. (unless of course your doing affiliate sales - thats different)

    can any one here understand my frustration? i have been ripped off a few good times now becuase of pretty pictures and a decent sales page with fake testimonials.

    Why is this industry so saturated with lies and deceat? im in the fitness industry and if i dont provide a real, proven, effective service i'll get canned... dont ethics matter in IM?
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  • Profile picture of the author craigraphael
    I felt the same way that you feel Iron Strong. I used to be offended and upset but I realized over time that with PLR products and MRR products, you don't HAVE to be the expert about the topic. You just need to know how to market. I'm far from an expert but I believe that harboring these feelings (if you're going to be an online marketer) is going to inhibit your abilities.

    I played the drums for 20 years and developed carpel tunnel. In my day, I was a mother on the drums and can still play better than average. I know for a fact that although I am limited because of my abilities, I can definately STILL teach a beginner how to thrive on the kit and help that person overcome many bad habits, although I can't demonstrate it. The knowledge is the noggin and can be expressed without SHOWING them.

    Again, overlook that stuff and move on. Don't let it bother you.

    This kind of stuff has been going on since marketing began. Although I understand your frustration, move forward and if you feel uncomfortable with something, don't get involved. Simple.

    There is always a fine line when I am reviewing marketers/products as to whether or not I give that product or marketer a good rating. Just because the product or marketer hasn't help me does NOT equal that it is crap. Products, tactics, secrets, etc. are only as good as the marketer behind it. More often than not, the money making programs/products/reports/etc. are NOT the bad guy. Their success/failure is hinged on the marketer behind it that does not know how to market correctly.

    Feel what I'm saying dude? The people that make those posts that piss you off are probably trying to sell a good product in a poor fashion. It's the marketer, not the product.

    Before I go....just because you're some buff dude that APPEARS to be in physical shape does NOT mean that you can teach someone how to do the same. It all works both ways. When you're talking about a fat ass trainer....a chiseled trainer doesn't necessarily have the knowledge to teach anyone. They may share their experience with someone but ultimately, there are always variables that come into play that the trainer/marketer CANNOT account for as to that persons success or failure rate.

    Good luck to you though.

    Sincerely,

    Craig Raphael
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