Is this a dishonest marketer?

by gibbey
68 replies
Greetings,

Over the years I have bought thousands and thousands of dollars of online info products as many of us on this forum have.

I think the first online marketing product I purchased was Corey Rudl's "Insider Secrets to Marketing Your Business On The Internet"
which I bought in 1998.

I have a 1 TB external hard drive that is literally over half full with internet marketing stuff....

I write all this to say I very rarely ask for refunds and I am not one of those tire kickers who are always looking to get something for free.

On May 2 2009 I purchased an online info course on how to write online copy. For whatever reason it was a hard read for me and it never helped me to write any better nor did it give any AH HAA moments.

The item has a one year money back guarantee. The guarantee was one of the reasons I trusted the marketer and purchased....

*********************
"You risk nothing! You have a No-Risk 365 Days 100% Money-Back Guarantee! .....

AND, if after driving targeted traffic to your sales letter for a reasonable amount of time and sending out a few email promotions you do not easily make back at least 3 times your investment... then I insist you return it... and I will credit your bank account for every penny you've paid. No questions asked - No hard feelings! It's just not that big of a deal!"
*********************

On Oct 14, 5 months after purchasing the item, and after several attempts to get something out of the item I respectfully requested a refund, (it is a $200 item, allot of money for me if I got nothing out of it....)

I sent several emails over a weeks time to the support email listed on the website and also CC them to the contact email listed for the domain, no answer back.

Several weeks later I wrote I had purchased domains close to his and was planning to put up websites telling how I couldn't get a refund.

The next day he finally wrote back (Oct 27) saying:
"this is the first refund request message
I 've received from you, it must have
been lost in the shuffle..."

On Oct 28 he wrote:
"I'll process your refund in a few days, just
let me finish a new promotion I'm working on
that will fund my PayPal account.

9 days later on Nov 6 he wrote:
"That promotion got a little delayed but my
accountant already knows about your refund.

It won't take more than a week or two at the
most for you to receive your money...

I figure that if you took 4 months to decide
and ask for a refund, you can wait just a
little bit longer to get it right?

Again, you'll receive your money within a
week or two at the most, for sure..."

Now it's Nov 20 (2 weeks later) and still no refund.

It has been over a month since my original refund request
and after several back and forth emails, no refund.

Is it wrong of me to be totally pi**ed off.

Trust is the only thing that allows purchases to go on via the internet. Its crap like this that gives other online marketers a bad name.

I am ready to complain to PayPal, his ISP, the FTC, the BBB and to create several websites warning others of what I have gone through....

I guess I am looking for thoughts and insights from others who have been through this type of thing. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

PS. The marketer is a member of this forum and does sell items on this forum. I have tried not to give away his ID just in case this does get resolved, (highly doubt it though...)


Thanks,

Gibbey
#dishonest #dishonest marketer #long #no refund #product #refund
  • Profile picture of the author Traffic_Is_King
    Check to see if they have a number you can call. Also see if they are on Twitter and send them a DM. Check if they have a Facebook page and try contacting them through there as well. I usually Google people that I am going to buy from and see what stuff is out there. But 4 months to get a refund is a long time.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      To be fair I had the item for 5 months.

      I first asked for a refund on Oct 14 and was first told on Oct 28 that the refund would only take a couple of days....

      Its been 37 days since I first asked for a refund.. and its been 23 days since I was told "I'll process your refund in a few days"....

      The product has a "365 day refund" policy on the site....

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Klatt
    I had a problem with two ghostwriters, one for $167 where they talked a good game for a month and delivered nothing. Then it seems they got divorced and did the "I thought she took care of it" bit and more promises. Zero results.

    The second was for $297 and this Warrior member promised me the refund for a year so far.

    In your case, I agree that you may change your approach and ask him the questions that would help you get the results you expected from the material, have him do copy critiques for you, or coaching or writing headlines and bullet points. If he has integrity, he should do what he can to help you get more than the dollar amount, in value.

    Hope that helps,
    Dan
    Signature

    Has Think and Grow Rich FAILED YOU, TOO? I need your help promoting my THREE new high-ticket "Authentic Wealth" products for big bucks and big impact

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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


      Did you buy this as a WSO? You may have other remedies, if so?
      Hi Alexa,

      No, I bought this from his regular product website... i just know he is a member here and has had WSO's ....

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    If they offered a refund, then you should be refunded immediately - at least within 24 hours....

    If they need a new product to launch to refund $200 - they should not be selling information products showing people how to get "rich"...

    If you think dealing with product creators to get refunds is a pain in the ass...try dealing with product buyers that agreed to "no refunds" and then try to refund....lol

    Some people just don't get it.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      If you think dealing with product creators to get refunds is a pain in the ass...try dealing with product buyers that agreed to "no refunds" and then try to refund....lol

      Some people just don't get it.
      Hi Jeremy,

      If you are asking for a refund where it is stated there are no refunds then the buyer is probably one of those tire kickers...

      I have bought several items and scripts with no refunds and totally understand their position. If the product doesn't work out I might but mad but mostly at myself. I don't take it out on the marketer. He was honest and upfront.

      This was not one of those times....

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Christophe Young
    I hate hearing about stories like this. I would have opened a PP dispute long ago.

    Makes you wonder who you can really trust around here.
    Signature
    Under Construction
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamie Lewis
    Originally Posted by gibbey View Post

    I figure that if you took 4 months to decide
    and ask for a refund, you can wait just a little bit longer to get it right?
    Did he really say this to you? A paying customer? If so, he needs to learn an important lesson.
    A failed business, not honoring your money back guarantee AND disrespect? Unacceptable.
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    • Profile picture of the author TommyBussey
      Originally Posted by Jamie Lewis View Post

      Did he really say this to you? A paying customer? If so, he needs to learn an important lesson.
      A failed business, not honoring your money back guarantee AND disrespect? Unacceptable.
      I agree Jamie, that line actually got ME pissed off too! That is just so disrespectful. I sure wish there was a way to wash the internet completely clean of people like this.

      It is bad enough to not follow through with your guarantees (promises), but it's a whole different story to blatantly treat someone WHO PAID YOU with such disrespect and rudeness.

      OP, one thing you can find peace in is that this person who's done this to you will certainly get what's coming to them. Unethical practices in any business (and life for that matter) always have a way of coming back around.

      Best of luck to you, and keep your spirits up. Keep working hard. Take action with knowledge you have and build a business that will allow you treat your customers with the kindness they deserve.

      - Tommy
      Signature

      - Meet Tommy Bussey -

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      • Profile picture of the author gibbey
        Originally Posted by TommyBussey View Post

        OP, one thing you can find peace in is that this person who's done this to you will certainly get what's coming to them. Unethical practices in any business (and life for that matter) always have a way of coming back around.
        Absolutely, Actually I really am not trying to stick it to the guy... I just don't ever want any one else to go through this kinda BS.

        Just dealing with this kinda attitude makes me loose my religion! :-)

        Originally Posted by TommyBussey View Post

        Best of luck to you, and keep your spirits up. Keep working hard. Take action with knowledge you have and build a business that will allow you treat your customers with the kindness they deserve.
        - Tommy
        Thnaks Tommy,
        I too believe in Karma,keep doing whats right and try to help as many people as possible along the way, it will eventually work its way to the sunny side...

        Thanks,

        John
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by Jamie Lewis View Post

      Did he really say this to you? A paying customer? If so, he needs to learn an important lesson.
      A failed business, not honoring your money back guarantee AND disrespect? Unacceptable.
      Absolutely true... I wrote several emails with no answer. As soon as I say I'm going to make a stink all of a sudden he answers but with little digs like above (at least I take it that way).

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author keweus
    after you get your money back you should reinvest it into a better course with an ironclad guarantee like this one:

    Power Web Copywriting Made Simple
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Ok... Sorry for the delay. Had to take 3 starving kids out to dinner.

      Believe it or not we have an update....

      After I received:

      "It won't take more than a week or two at the
      most for you to receive your money... "

      and after patiently waiting for two weeks and after not receiving any emails not hearing anything, I fired off the following email this afternoon:

      ******************
      Ok....

      "It won't take more than a week or two at the
      most for you to receive your money..."

      It's been two weeks today and still nothing, no email,
      no refund.. nothing.

      I first asked for a refund on Oct 14. Its been 37 days
      since I first asked for a refund.

      The only conclusion I can come to is either
      your playing games with me, you are a thief, or
      you really don't know how to make money online.....

      I am done playing.

      I am going to lodge a complaint with paypal,
      your ISP along with the other items/websites
      I have planend.

      If you honor your refund I'll stop.

      I am truly sorry it has come to this but if you
      can't honor your written guarantee then
      you can't be trusted and you shouldnt
      be selling anything on the internet as you
      give honest marketers a bad name.
      ******************



      An hour or two later I started this post on
      the warrior forum.....

      I then take the kids to dinner....



      I then come back find the following email
      in my mailbox:

      ******************
      I am very sorry you feel that way, of course I'm
      honoring your refund, that's my guarantee...

      1.- Your refund has already been scheduled by my
      accountant for next Monday Nov/23/2009.

      It would have been immediate if you had asked for
      a refund earlier than 4 months after your purchase,
      but you are getting it on Monday anyway.


      2.- The promotion I told you about took place this
      week as I told you before. I was going to offer it
      to you because is a full niche business in a box,
      but I wasn't sure you would have wanted it.

      If you are at least curious about it, you can check
      it out here: http://xxxxxxxxxxxx.com/xxxxxx/


      (PLEASE CONFIRM RECEPTION OF THIS MESSAGE)



      Again, your refund has already been scheduled by my
      accountant for next Monday Nov/23/2009.
      ******************

      This is the whole email and untouched except for the xxxx.com part...... I X'ed out the domain.


      Something tells me he saw this thread and realized I was/am serious about letting the proverbial crap fly....

      But is this part for real????? :

      "It would have been immediate if you had asked for
      a refund earlier than 4 months after your purchase,
      but you are getting it on Monday anyway."


      Is it me? Am I misreading this?

      A little heads up for the marketer.... I am taking the above as "If you had asked for the refund earlier I might not have spent your money, you can't really expect me to hold on to your money for a whole year as stated in my money back guarantee do you?

      News flash....

      I expect you to do what you have to do to honor your guarantee... your promise to your website customers and visitors or don't make it at all!

      If you can only hold on to the money for 2 weeks then make it a 2 week money back guarantee!

      As it stands right now take some of your earnings (maybe 10% until you figure out your return rate) and put them into an ING savings account earning 3%, then pay the damn refund requests on time!

      I know they are a pain in the back side but look at it this way... If you have a high refund rate it might be time to revamp your product. And if I am the only refund you got and you cant afford to pay it back how the hell are you showing people how to make money online????

      What you are doing is called a pyramid scheme, a ponzi scheme!!!

      You are selling an item then taking the next guys purchase to pay for the last refund.

      How long would Sears last if you return a TV that didnt fit into your entertainment system and were told you had to wait over a month until they sold another TV to pay you back?!?!?!?

      [deep breath] [deep breath] [deep breath] [deep breath]

      Ok... sorry guys.. I didnt mean to go off like this but this has been under my skin for over a month...

      As it stands right now I am on hold until Monday... Again.....


      John
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by gibbey View Post

        "It would have been immediate if you had asked for a refund earlier than 4 months after your purchase, but you are getting it on Monday anyway."
        My general expectation is that if you are going to ask for a refund, you'll do it within a month. If you're busy or really trying hard, you'll do it within two months. And after three months, if you were going to ask for a refund, you'd have done it already.

        So if it's been over three months since your purchase, it doesn't seem reasonable that you'd expect me to have your money in my pocket right now. Particularly during a product launch, when everything I have might be committed to the launch.

        THAT SAID... if it had been me, I would have been a lot more frank and open about it. I would have said something like this:

        "Wow, I generally don't expect anyone to ask for a refund after the three-month mark; all of my available money is committed to a product launch right now, so it will be some time - at least a couple weeks - before I can send you the cash. Actually, would you like to trade up to my new product at no cost to you? It's blah blah blah, and you might have better luck with it... but if it still doesn't meet your needs, I'll happily issue your refund."

        Honesty works. Really, it does.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author gibbey
          Hi CDarklock,

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          My general expectation is that if you are going to ask for a refund, you'll do it within a month. If you're busy or really trying hard, you'll do it within two months. And after three months, if you were going to ask for a refund, you'd have done it already.
          Totally agree. It may not be the norm, it may have even been stupid on my part to wait that long, but I don't think you should be totally thrown off if you are offering a 1 year money back guarantee...


          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          So if it's been over three months since your purchase, it doesn't seem reasonable that you'd expect me to have your money in my pocket right now. Particularly during a product launch, when everything I have might be committed to the launch. Particularly during a product launch, when everything I have might be committed to the launch.
          I think I might respectfully disagree here. I understand with the cash being tight idea,(I have a wife and three kids running on one job right now... trust me I know financially tight...) and maybe because I haven't had a large scale launch maybe I am naive but I still think that as a good business model if you have websites selling items you have to hold back working capital in reserve for normal daily operating costs including regular refunds... or if you need ALL of your cash for a launch temporarily stop selling items that may normally have refunds....

          This guy has at least 5 online websites right now selling info and software items sorrounding how to make money themes... I can't believe he is so tight as not to be able to afford one lousy refund. Wouldn't it have been better to hold back enough cash to pay for what the sites have been costing the last 5-6 months and if this straps you too tight then just hold off the big launch, keep operating your bread and butter sites until you have enough in reserve otherwise this kind of stuff happens and you risk loosing your bread and butter sites? What happens if his big launch goes belly up? He could loose everything, bread and butter, big launch and all?

          If I go down to vegas I don't thrown it ALL down on red, food money, rent money everything? Not unless you want to walk home....

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          THAT SAID... if it had been me, I would have been a lot more frank and open about it. I would have said something like this:

          "Wow, I generally don't expect anyone to ask for a refund after the three-month mark; all of my available money is committed to a product launch right now, so it will be some time - at least a couple weeks - before I can send you the cash. Actually, would you like to trade up to my new product at no cost to you? It's blah blah blah, and you might have better luck with it... but if it still doesn't meet your needs, I'll happily issue your refund."

          Honesty works. Really, it does.
          Totally Agree my freind, being frank is the ticket... And to be up front he did offer to go over "copywriting" with me but by this time I was allready hot under the collar... I had been sending emails to his "support" email address along with the contact emial address for the domain with no replies... then to write stuff like:

          "I figure that if you took 4 months to decide
          and ask for a refund, you can wait just a
          little bit longer to get it right?

          Again, you'll receive your money within a
          week or two at the most, for sure..."

          then when it goes past this time, no email, no nothing over and over again?

          I feel as though I am getting played. I dont want to interact with this guy, I don't want to invite him over for Christmas, I am to the point now where I just want my money as promised and part ways.

          I have tried being understanding and polite. Now I am just tired. I don't wish him ill will, I don't want him to loose his business's. I just don't want to be treated like a jerk who owed him $200 dollars....

          You are totally correct. If there had been open and polite dialog from the beginning there could have been ( and I believe would have been) a totally different outcome.

          Maybe you and I will help a new and fledgeling online marketer get off on the right foot after he/she has read all this.

          I guess this would have been all well worth it....

          Thanks CDarklock,

          John
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        • Profile picture of the author Profit-smart
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          My general expectation is that if you are going to ask for a refund, you'll do it within a month. If you're busy or really trying hard, you'll do it within two months. And after three months, if you were going to ask for a refund, you'd have done it already.

          So if it's been over three months since your purchase, it doesn't seem reasonable that you'd expect me to have your money in my pocket right now. Particularly during a product launch, when everything I have might be committed to the launch.

          THAT SAID... if it had been me, I would have been a lot more frank and open about it. I would have said something like this:

          "Wow, I generally don't expect anyone to ask for a refund after the three-month mark; all of my available money is committed to a product launch right now, so it will be some time - at least a couple weeks - before I can send you the cash. Actually, would you like to trade up to my new product at no cost to you? It's blah blah blah, and you might have better luck with it... but if it still doesn't meet your needs, I'll happily issue your refund."

          Honesty works. Really, it does.
          You should be a PR guy =p
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          • Profile picture of the author gibbey
            Update:

            Nov 23 I received a full refund.

            We have smoked the peace pipe and all is well between us. He even offered to build a website with me but I declined. I think it is probably better to part as freinds.....

            I will not get back into the argument about who was more right or wrong, I believe it was both him and I, (you can read my previous posts for further...).

            For anyone who may or may not believe they know who I have been going back and forth with I just ask you to let it stop here.

            I believe that this all happened so we could dialog here and that some up and coming marketer gets to read the valuable posts and walks away with just a little bit better understanding of the importance of customer support. There is nothing as important as making sure all of your customers are happy, wether it is answering a minor question or refunding a purchase, just make sure your ready to back up your MBO or any other promises you may make on your website.

            You never know which disgruntled customer can casue you bad publicity and loose you more customers than its worth....

            Thanks to all the great warriors who commented and offered me support.

            There is truly a great group of guys and gals here with more knowledge and experience than all the ebooks on the net.

            Thats what makes this forum priceless....

            Again, thank you all and see you around the forum....
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by keweus View Post

      after you get your money back you should reinvest it into a better course with an ironclad guarantee like this one:

      Power Web Copywriting Made Simple
      keweus,

      You are the man!
      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author gibbey
    Jeremy,

    I appologize but I cant PM as it says I need at least 50 posts and I only have 37.

    If you want you can email me at warriorsforum [at] marketingstars [dot] com
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  • Profile picture of the author gibbey
    Originally Posted by healymedia View Post

    So you're supposed to believe that this guy has an accountant he pays to handle things like this, but yet he doesn't have $200 available to give you a refund? What a joke.
    Hi healymedia,

    It sounds strange to me that you would have your "accountant" log into your paypal account to send refunds etc... Maybe that is what the problem is?


    John
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Either the guys dishonest or he's a horrible business person and just blows any money he receives on his products right away. That leaves no money left for refunds...
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      Either the guys dishonest or he's a horrible business person and just blows any money he receives on his products right away. That leaves no money left for refunds...
      Hi redicelander,

      I think that was what was happening... I just thought he would have made $200 during the past 37 days... That with the little attitude emails just left me feeling like I was being jerked around....

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Aj Wilson
    I agree.

    The problem here may be that your man doesn't have $200. If he really hasn't, complaining to PayPal, his ISP, the FTC, the BBB and creating websites warning others of what you've gone through may not help. Then again, the threat of them may help him to realise that he has actually got $200?
    Alexa...
    You're too nice

    Gibbey luv...

    Some simple research...

    A quick "who is" on a few of his websites...

    Go grab the butcher knife from your kitchen draw...

    Then Turn Demon on his a$$

    all the best babes x

    - aj
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by Aj Wilson View Post

      Alexa...
      You're too nice

      Gibbey luv...

      Some simple research...

      A quick "who is" on a few of his websites...

      Go grab the butcher knife from your kitchen draw...

      Then Turn Demon on his a$$

      all the best babes x

      - aj

      AJ, You have qa way with words...

      remind me not to tick you off....

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven D Smith
    My opinion is that clearly he is a dishonest seller. He is probably pretending to be making tens of thousands per week, when in fact he is just scraping by.

    Hopefully he sees this thread and decides he better make returning your money his priority.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author D89
      Originally Posted by Steven D Smith View Post

      My opinion is that clearly he is a dishonest seller. He is probably pretending to be making tens of thousands per week, when in fact he is just scraping by.

      Hopefully he sees this thread and decides he better make returning your money his priority.

      Steve

      You are making assumptions. Do you know this person personally?

      Have you ever heard of a crisis? Things happen that people dont expect.

      We cannot jump to conclusions and beat down on someone without knowing.


      I think the buyer is just as at fault too.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven D Smith
        Originally Posted by D89 View Post

        You are making assumptions. Do you know this person personally?

        Have you ever heard of a crisis? Things happen that people dont expect.

        We cannot jump to conclusions and beat down on someone without knowing.


        I think the buyer is just as at fault too.

        I don't need to know the person personally to know they owe this buyer a refund. If the seller is in a crisis situation it's up to him to say so.

        I hope to never so business with you in the future.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author D89
          Originally Posted by Steven D Smith View Post

          I don't need to know the person personally to know they owe this buyer a refund. If the seller is in a crisis situation it's up to him to say so.

          I hope to never so business with you in the future.

          Steve

          I am very, very honest and I would tell the buyer clearly what my situation is and ask for some time....I also would never have such a long guarantee.

          But, I also have a more open, higher prespective than this lets gang up on this man mentality.

          As a seller of goods online, i have seen what greedy, unthinking people do. I have had guaranteed for 60 days that people have tried to break after several months and i know where it is comming from.

          Just because this man is the one playing the victim roll does not mean that he is...I still think he is at fault....

          Should he get his refund. YES, absolutely because the guarantee states so. I would honor it.

          However it is clear that something is wrong here, 5 months...come on!

          later for this, i wont return to this thread. It irritates me because I can see what is happening more clearly than many of you will.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven D Smith
            Originally Posted by D89 View Post

            I am very, very honest and I would tell the buyer clearly what my situation is and ask for some time....I also would never have such a long guarantee.

            But, I also have a more open, higher prespective than this lets gang up on this man mentality.

            As a seller of goods online, i have seen what greedy, unthinking people do. I have had guaranteed for 60 days that people have tried to break after several months and i know where it is comming from.

            Just because this man is the one playing the victim roll does not mean that he is...I still think he is at fault....

            Should he get his refund. YES, absolutely because the guarantee states so. I would honor it.

            However it is clear that something is wrong here, 5 months...come on!

            later for this, i wont return to this thread. It irritates me because I can see what is happening more clearly than many of you will.

            I am a seller of goods also. However, I honor every request instantly, whether I agree with it or not. I also apologize to the buyer that my product did not meet his expectations.

            An honorable business person is one which buyers will come back to. If a seller offers a 365 day guarantee, he must honor it.

            You almost seem to have some vested interest in the outcome of this.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Jamie Lewis
              Ok now Im just getting ticked off. What is this with the 4 months thing?

              "It would have been immediate if you had asked for a refund earlier than 4 months after your purchase, but you are getting it on Monday anyway."

              A 365 day guarantee means 365 days. What in the world. :confused:

              And all of this garble about how if you wait 4 months it's your fault, yadda yadda. Look at this guy's replies. It's clear as crystal. Using an accountant to issue a refund? That is some BS.

              1. Don't do a 365 day guarantee, that does not make any sense.
              2. Have paypal connected to your expense account to issue refunds. (If not, ???)
              3. Don't lie to your customer
              4. Don't disrespect your customer

              I think these outweigh any alleged "consumer abuse."
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          • Profile picture of the author gibbey
            Originally Posted by D89 View Post

            I am very, very honest and I would tell the buyer clearly what my situation is and ask for some time....I also would never have such a long guarantee.

            But, I also have a more open, higher prespective than this lets gang up on this man mentality.

            As a seller of goods online, i have seen what greedy, unthinking people do. I have had guaranteed for 60 days that people have tried to break after several months and i know where it is comming from.

            Just because this man is the one playing the victim roll does not mean that he is...I still think he is at fault....

            Should he get his refund. YES, absolutely because the guarantee states so. I would honor it.

            However it is clear that something is wrong here, 5 months...come on!

            later for this, i wont return to this thread. It irritates me because I can see what is happening more clearly than many of you will.
            D89,

            I know you said you aren't coming back to this thread but I will post this in the slim chance you find it later.

            I agree somewhat with what you are saying. I am partially at fault. I have said this several times through several previous posts. I can see your point that I should have and could have decided earlier for a refund. It was my decision based soley on the fact that there was a 1 year MBG.

            At my full time job I sometimes have to write long and detailed reports that are read by educated men and women. Sometimes I have learned that after staring at the report for 4 hours I cant see the mistakes if I tried, kind of like the saying Can't see the trees for the forest. I have learned to table it for a day or two the go back at it.

            Maybe this is a good habit maybe a bad one, either way it works for me. That is kind of what I did here. Right or wrong.

            I can guarantee you that if I had been given a 1 month MBG I wouldnt have tried as much as I did and would have asked for a refund within the 1 month.

            I will also guarantee you that if you sell items online you will inevitablly get tire kickers. I have tried to tell you I am not one of those. I genuinely have tried to tell you this about me. Believe me or don't, its your choice but let me ask you one thing....

            Have you noticed that I have never used the marketers name and haven't given his website?

            Don't you think that if my sole reason for this post was to bash the guy I could have created a new member profile (this is my only one, have been here since Feb 2007) and given his info and slip the dogs of war???

            I may be wrong but when you write things like: "But, I also have a more open, higher prespective than this lets gang up on this man mentality. " it sounds like you may know the guyand its personal.

            This incident is because it is both our faults and I am not trying to slam the man.

            This post is not about the MBG... It is about the treatment of a customer who happens to be asking for a refund.

            If you had gone to this guys website and asked questions about his product and you had to send several emails before he answered, and when he did answer he basically said "I'm busy, I'll email you in a couple of days then after a couple of days nothing... so you email him again and he writes back, "look you waited this long for an answer, I'm busy with a new launch, I'll have by accountant write you back in two weeks" and after two weeks you still get no email... would you be a happy camper?

            Thats all....nothing more, nothing less.

            If you still don't understand where I am coming from I am sorry for waisting your time and mine.

            I don't hold any of this against you when you say things like: "this speaks volumes for this buyer and how well he will do in IM...no focus"

            If we still disagree lets leave it at that.

            I wish you well.

            John
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            Originally Posted by D89 View Post

            However it is clear that something is wrong here, 5 months...come on!
            The only thing wrong here is the guy doesn't want to honor his refund policy. Well, that, and him teaching others how to make money online when he can't even scrape together $200 of his own over 30 days.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by Steven D Smith View Post

      My opinion is that clearly he is a dishonest seller. He is probably pretending to be making tens of thousands per week, when in fact he is just scraping by.

      Hopefully he sees this thread and decides he better make returning your money his priority.

      Steve
      I hope so too Steve. I have never gone through something like this.

      I just hope this helps someone one way or ther other.....

      Like I wrote to CDarklock,

      "Maybe you and I will help a new and fledgeling online marketer get off on the right foot after he/she has read all this.

      I guess this would have been all well worth it...."

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author TheWealthSquad
    Honesty is always the best policy. When a customer asks for a refund, you have an opportunity to win them over. By treating them with respect and dignity. You gain nothing by taking shots at your customers.

    Even the tire kickers have friends who may one day buy your product. If you have a year guarantee, refund them. Go on with life. If you don't have the $200, tell them. My cash flow is pretty tight right now as we are launching a new product. Since my last product doesn't seem to have met your needs, I would love to provide you a copy of the current one for free. If you like it, let me know. Once I have the product launched, I will refund your money. Right now the timing looks like 3 weeks to launch (Always include a cushion for things to go wrong).

    Then you can turn a client into a raving fan rather than a ranting fiend (No offense OP).

    Being in business means meeting your obligations. Keeping your promises. Your word is the only thing you have so make it mean something.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by TheWealthSquad View Post

      Honesty is always the best policy. When a customer asks for a refund, you have an opportunity to win them over. By treating them with respect and dignity. You gain nothing by taking shots at your customers.

      Even the tire kickers have friends who may one day buy your product. If you have a year guarantee, refund them. Go on with life. If you don't have the $200, tell them. My cash flow is pretty tight right now as we are launching a new product. Since my last product doesn't seem to have met your needs, I would love to provide you a copy of the current one for free. If you like it, let me know. Once I have the product launched, I will refund your money. Right now the timing looks like 3 weeks to launch (Always include a cushion for things to go wrong).

      Then you can turn a client into a raving fan rather than a ranting fiend (No offense OP).

      Being in business means meeting your obligations. Keeping your promises. Your word is
      the only thing you have so make it mean something.

      TheWealthSquad,

      Couldn't have said it better myself.

      If everyone acted like that (both sellers and buyers) life would be so much nicer.

      I think you have just hit the mark of a business model we should all strive for.

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Ya, this really definitely seems fishy and raises alarm bells in my mind, for sure, at least the way you have described it. I would say wait until the end of the month, keep trying to contact him. If he does not respond anymore, give him a warning that are you going to come down hard on him with BBB, FTC, etc. and give him a one week deadline for that refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      Ya, this really definitely seems fishy and raises alarm bells in my mind, for sure, at least the way you have described it. I would say wait until the end of the month, keep trying to contact him. If he does not respond anymore, give him a warning that are you going to come down hard on him with BBB, FTC, etc. and give him a one week deadline for that refund.
      This time he says his accountant will have it entered on Monday.

      I will wait and see....

      I am just tired. He says one thing and that time comes and goes, I then have to contact him. Then he gives another date and that comes and goes, I again have to recontact him.... I just feel as though I am getting the run around... I'm just tired of it which is the wrong feelings you want to give when running a business....

      Thanks redicelander,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Business_Skater
    At least you got your money back I would have been pissed also.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerry Humphrey
      Originally Posted by Business_Skater View Post

      At least you got your money back I would have been pissed also.
      He hasn't gotten it back yet.. it is just 'scheduled' for next Monday (Nov 23, 2009)

      I usually offer 45 day MBG so it is within the PayPal window of doing a quick refund (and no loss of paypal fees.) It also gives a chance to communicate in case there is an issue. I have given back refunds much later, but do charge less any PayPal or processing fees if it is beyond the stated date.

      I think "TheWealthSquad" hit on it pretty good. Be honest, upfront and open.

      Also, if there is still a bit of time in the refund window, in the case of a product like this, at least ask the customer if they need some help, clarification or some assistance. Even if they still want the refund the extra bit will keep them as a customer (and from having to post threads like this) =)
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  • Profile picture of the author D89
    No, I dont think he is necessarily dishonest. I think maybe a bit weak.

    Someone obviously advised him incorrectly about having such an open guarantee.


    As for your part, 'COME ON!!' doesn't anyone else just think this is unethical on your part?


    Just because Levi's says that you can at anytime replace your old jeans for a new one without question, do you really bring in a 5 year old worn out pair of jeans to a levi's store and ask for a new one?


    I am sorry but the fault is on your part. Its selfish and inconsiderate.

    You should have been not so lazy and returned it a long time ago. You are typical of people who buy things and put it on a shelf. Perhaps you needed the money and decided to use this poor guys open guarantee.

    Its also foolish on the part of the marketer for having such an agreement. This should teach him a lesson and maybe he will change this policy.


    If a restaurant has an open policy to repay you if you do not like the meal, do you eat everything and then ask for a refund?


    Somethings are offered as a measure of trust and kindness but not to be abused.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheWealthSquad
      Unethical? He stated that he had tried the system out several times. He made an effort to make it work but did not have success. A guarantee is a contract.

      The purpose of a guarantee is to increase sales by reducing your risk and increasing trust. The Majority of people do not take you up on them just like mail in rebates. This the reason they provide a huge profit boost to a company when done correctly.

      It is neither selfish nor inconsiderate to ask for a refund when one has been guaranteed. In this case the issue lies directly on the seller. When you make a guarantee you keep it. Period. No discussion no debate.

      Advised him incorrectly? How do you know? Guarantees work. There is extensive evidence that they do. They have been tested repeatedly.

      I have written refund checks out of my own pocket when my company was going through tight cash flow times. If you make a promise as a business person you make it right. Period.

      (Taking deep breathes now so I don't go on a very long rant)

      Don't want any refunds? Don't offer a guarantee. Accept the lower sales.

      If you truly have the opinion you listed below, Please remind me to NEVER do business with you in any capacity.

      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      No, I dont think he is necessarily dishonest. I think maybe a bit weak.

      Someone obviously advised him incorrectly about have such an open guarantee.


      As for your part, 'COME ON!!' doesn't anyone else just think this is unethical on your part?


      Just because Levi's says that you can at anytime replace your old jeans for a new one without question, do you really bring your old worn out jeans to a levi's store and ask for a new one?


      I am sorry but the fault is on your part. Its selfish and inconsiderate.
      and foolish on the part of the marketer for having such an agreement. This should teach him a lesson and maybe he will change this policy.
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      • Profile picture of the author D89
        Originally Posted by TheWealthSquad View Post

        Unethical? He stated that he had tried the system out several times. He made an effort to make it work but did not have success. A guarantee is a contract.

        The purpose of a guarantee is to increase sales by reducing your risk and increasing trust. The Majority of people do not take you up on them just like mail in rebates. This the reason they provide a huge profit boost to a company when done correctly.

        It is neither selfish nor inconsiderate to ask for a refund when one has been guaranteed. In this case the issue lies directly on the seller. When you make a guarantee you keep it. Period. No discussion no debate.

        Advised him incorrectly? How do you know? Guarantees work. There is extensive evidence that they do. They have been tested repeatedly.

        I have written refund checks out of my own pocket when my company was going through tight cash flow times. If you make a promise as a business person you make it right. Period.

        (Taking deep breathes now so I don't go on a very long rant)

        Don't want any refunds? Don't offer a guarantee. Accept the lower sales.

        If you truly have the opinion you listed below, Please remind me to NEVER do business with you in any capacity.

        Dont make excuses for this buyer. I see clearly that the guarantee should be honored but the buyer is also a slacker all the same. It took him that many months to check the product and then to ask for a refund on such a product???

        huh suspect!!! Did you purchase a vacum clearner that broke down yes sure get a refund but come on..


        I need to go take a deep long breath and a break tooo!!!!!

        NONSENSE all of this is nonsense.


        this speaks volumes for this buyer and how well he will do in IM...no focus


        Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Hi D89,

      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      No, I dont think he is necessarily dishonest. I think maybe a bit weak.

      Someone obviously advised him incorrectly about having such an open guarantee.


      As for your part, 'COME ON!!' doesn't anyone else just think this is unethical on your part?


      Just because Levi's says that you can at anytime replace your old jeans for a new one without question, do you really bring in a 5 year old worn out pair of jeans to a levi's store and ask for a new one?
      Unethical? On my part? I think that may just be a poor choice of words on your part. "Stupid" may have been a better word, I'll agree with you on stupid on my part but not unethical, unles you think I am going around purposefully buying and returning stuff.

      Actually with that logic I think you can say someone who bought and returned it in 2 weeks is more "unethical." At least I tried several times giving the item a chance.... And as far as waiting too long, isn't that the lure of the "12 month MBG?" Make more sales because the no return pressure is off, hoping the customer doesn't immediately use it, will put it on the back burner and forget about it because "I have 12 months to try to get it to work..."

      I don't agree with the levi analogy... bringing back a "5 year old worn out pair of jeans" for a refund compared to this is apples and oranges... The levi guy got use out of the worn out pants... They fit and he wore them for 5 years. He should not bring them back.

      If I had never been able to write good webcopy, read this product then began writing product selling websites then yes it would be an abuse by asking for a refund... This is not the case. You are labeling me as being "unethical" totally due to the time issue, it being 4 months after purchase when it has a written 1 year MBG and I just don't agree...

      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      I am sorry but the fault is on your part. Its selfish and inconsiderate.
      I'm just not going to answer as I don't want this to get into a flaming war....


      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      You should have been not so lazy and returned it a long time ago. You are typical of people who buy things and put it on a shelf.
      I disagree with this but there is no way to show or prove this too you. I will say though I think if you were to do statistics on items with a 1 month MBG and a 1 year MBG that you will find the longer the MBG offered the more "put it on the shelf" kind of customers you will attract and/or receive. The good thing for the marketer is it should be overcompensated for by the guys that put it on the shelf and forget about it, never use it and never ask for a refund.....

      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      Perhaps you needed the money and decided to use this poor guys open guarantee.
      I get it... You are one of those market by any means kind of guys arent you? Personally if I really believe I have a good product I just want to market to people that will get some good from it. If my survival as an online marketer depends on shafting the guys that for whatever reason believes the product is not a good fit for them I will think it is time for me to turn it in and start flipping burgers at the local McDonalds....


      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      If a restaurant has an open policy to repay you if you do not like the meal, do you eat everything and then ask for a refund?
      Can you actually name me one restaurant, just one that will let you eat the whole meal then pay you back when you ask for a refund? [/QUOTE]

      Originally Posted by D89 View Post

      Somethings are offered as a measure of trust and kindness but not to be abused.
      I am sorry but this is my favorite line of this whole post...

      His posting of a one year MBG was to build "trust and kindness" , just not to be used. As I am not a mind reader and it is hard for me to decrypt what a marketer is thinking when it isn't what he is writing... what is the fair time frame for someone offering a 12 month MBG? 1, 2, 3 months?

      D89, In a nut shell I understand your point on not liking someone putting an item on the shelf then waiting 360 days to look at it, decide it isn't for them then asking for a refund. In a perfect world a marketer shouldn't have to invest the sales/money and wait to spend it until after the MBG expires... But online selling inherently has refunds, hell any market online or offline has refunds. If you don't want to deal with long term refunds then don't offer long term refunds! It's is in the marketers power to offer 7 day or 20 year MBG!

      But as far as the "poor guys" (as you described him) getting hit with 1 refund, if he isn't selling more because of the 1 year MBG then he would by offering a 1 month MBG he should not be offering it.

      Thanks for telling me your side,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Yes you should get your money back if it was stated a 12 month guarantee, it is also very very rare a person decides on the money back after 4 months. In most cases if a product or service does not work it is returned within 7 to 14 days max.

    In many ways, long refund periods can cause a problem, if it were 60 days then it would have been covered and in cases with long time periods most of the refund claims are more people tying to get money back and not a problem with the product as such.

    I am not implying this in your case but 99% of cases like this are because people have run out of money and not that the product is faulty or bad, if it was then yes as above 7 - 14 days maximum for a refund.

    This still does not excuse the person if he had a 12 month return policy, and he should expect this to happen from time to time if so.

    I hope your funds are returned soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      Yes you should get your money back if it was stated a 12 month guarantee, it is also very very rare a person decides on the money back after 4 months. In most cases if a product or service does not work it is returned within 7 to 14 days max.

      In many ways, long refund periods can cause a problem, if it were 60 days then it would have been covered and in cases with long time periods most of the refund claims are more people tying to get money back and not a problem with the product as such.

      I am not implying this in your case but 99% of cases like this are because people have run out of money and not that the product is faulty or bad, if it was then yes as above 7 - 14 days maximum for a refund.

      This still does not excuse the person if he had a 12 month return policy, and he should expect this to happen from time to time if so.

      I hope your funds are returned soon.
      Hi tryinhere,

      I understand what you are saying and agree, it is both are faults. If I had bought an ebook and was delivered an ebook with 10 blank pages, requested a refund the same day and denied then I think we would all agree that the money should be returned ASAP. I would have no problem waiting, things are not that tough... It is just I feel as though I am being played with and given an attitude, thats where most of the harm is...

      Thanks,

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by gibbey View Post

        Hi tryinhere,

        I understand what you are saying and agree, it is both are faults. If I had bought an ebook and was delivered an ebook with 10 blank pages, requested a refund the same day and denied then I think we would all agree that the money should be returned ASAP. I would have no problem waiting, things are not that tough... It is just I feel as though I am being played with and given an attitude, thats where most of the harm is...

        Thanks,

        John
        Yes John, this person regardless of any other factor offered a 12 month guarantee and as such must honor that guarantee without question and in a timely manner, and in your case the replies and delays are not acceptable business practice and needs to be sorted by the person in question sooner rather than later.

        Pete
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  • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
    Wow gibbey,

    Been tracking this thread for awhile and gotta say I sympathise with you.

    No excuse for the seller, IMO.

    If you cannot hold on to the money for a certain time, then do not give out false guarantees that claims you will refund it after 1 year.

    Plain and simple.

    Not all products take 3 months to work out well. Some can take 9 months. Whatever it is, give a realistic guarantee vs effectiveness of product time.

    Hope it all turns out well for you gibbey.
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

      Wow gibbey,

      Been tracking this thread for awhile and gotta say I sympathise with you.

      No excuse for the seller, IMO.

      If you cannot hold on to the money for a certain time, then do not give out false guarantees that claims you will refund it after 1 year.

      Plain and simple.

      Not all products take 3 months to work out well. Some can take 9 months. Whatever it is, give a realistic guarantee vs effectiveness of product time.

      Hope it all turns out well for you gibbey.

      Thanks Jeff,

      Continued success....

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Ashley Gable
        I think you are very much entitled to be pi**ed!

        I offer a 365 money back guarantee on my products (not im) and if I even get a hint that the customer doesnt like it ... I will refund them. The last thing I want is to be sued by them or anyone. Nor do I want bad word of mouth.

        I would say contact paypal first, maybe he is down on his luck, and contacting the FTC would be a last resort ... for me at least.

        Hope you get it sorted out. I did have a similar same thing happen on ebay though once, I received the item, which cost $300, it wasnt complete, and he strung me along just long enough for the "complaint period" to expire! uggh some people!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by D89 View Post

        You are making assumptions. Do you know this person personally?

        Have you ever heard of a crisis? Things happen that people dont expect.

        We cannot jump to conclusions and beat down on someone without knowing.


        I think the buyer is just as at fault too.
        1. The buyer is in no way at fault. None, what so ever. He is in his time frame to ask for a refund. End of story. He does not need to provide why it took him as long as it did to ask for a refund.

        2. Yes, crap happens. And a seller would be in a much better position to be honest up front, explain he is having issues, working to resolve the issue, will do what ever to get the man his money back, and if the seller has half a brain he would go beg, borrow, plead, pawn something - what ever to get this guy his refund.

        And then, this guy has a new product - and should have offered that for FREE IMO if he is causing this distress to the buyer.

        If you bought from this guy that package here on the WF please do us a favor and post on the thread you purchased from - if you get your refund or not either way. It will allow other buyers to make an informed choice of if they want to risk a purchase.

        Good luck on Monday.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wham
    if someone offers a one year guarentee then they need honor that, doesn't matter if you had asked for it on month 1 or month 11. just because it might be abnormal for someone to ask for a refund several months after purchasing doesn't mean anything, it's them that has an abnormal amount of refund time. completely their fault.

    it doesnt take 365 days to realize if something works, especially a IM product, stupid move on his part.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven D Smith
    John,

    Keep us updated on this as the days go by. Once the seller realizes this thread has become this popular(currently 52 posts), he will be shamed into giving the refund back.

    Maybe we can refer him to the thread about making money when you're desperate for it. He can make a few bucks and give you the money you rightfully deserve.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    To answer the question: Yes, dishonest. At the core. Unless of course he met an accident or something terrible happened to him (Am I to assume a male here?), I am sure he should have refunded the money.

    Heck I never got the point of 365 day guarantees? What's the point if someone has to forget that they bought something from you?

    I believe its better to have them remember their first and second and third purchase from you.

    Anyhow... funny how people are. Most guys around are cool, really, but some aren't. And the best part is- You obviously seem to have tested it all out. It didn't work.

    Get a refund. But I wouldn't waste my time reporting him to 1001 places if I didn't get it. I'd call him though and see if he's going to refund ever.

    -Lakshay

    P.S. 500 gigs is a lot of markting info... An offline consultant wouldn't have more than 10 Marketing DVD's on their table. That's the max I have seen to date. Just saying- You need to SELL stuff in order to make money, not BUY stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Koltai
      This is an open and shut case in my opinion. If your refund policy says 365 days, be prepared to refund your customers promptly for 365 days. Don't like it? Easy fix, shorten the length of your guarantee.

      If you don't have money on hand to fill a refund request, you probably shouldn't be teaching anyone how to make money online.

      And really, what's with the couple of people ragging on the buyer here? He entered into a contract when he bought the product, and when he realized the product wasn't living up to its promises, he invoked his rights under said contract. I hate refund requests as much as the next guy, no one likes losing money... But guys, it's the nature of the beast. Don't project your personal refund anxiety on to this guy just for acting within his rights :p
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  • Profile picture of the author seanyd
    I also had a problem like this , didn`t like the product , was nothing new, asked for a refund and heard nothing , sent a second email heard nothing, so I just went through PayPal and filed a dispute . Got a refund in 2 days because PayPal froze their account.
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  • Profile picture of the author ScottTMc
    For me i would give him that final chance, if he was to then say another 2 weeks i'd proberbly go crazy at him and tell him i expected the money in my account in 2 days max, if not then go for it, post it wherever you feel and put up those domains
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  • Profile picture of the author keweus
    Don't offer a guarantee that you can't live up to, or uphold.

    "Spending" the money you make selling stuff isn't a sufficient reason to delay, or
    refuse a refund, that's just plain silly and irresponsible.

    The buyer has a right to cancel and demand a refund, and all those imposing moral
    judgment on that decision need to rethink being in the business of selling stuff to consumers, or they will have a very hard time.

    The best policy for a seller is to honor your guarantees, regardless of what they are, or how you feel about people who take you up on them. If your guarantees cause you to lose money, PERHAPS your product sucks, or perhaps your guarantee invites and almost solicits refunds, so MAYBE it's your own fault?

    PS - this guys just bought himself a bucket full of bad press for $200, when in fact, he could have perhaps turned it into a positive experience by directly dealing with the buyer, listening to his concerns and reasons for wanting a refund, and acting swiftly to make the buyer happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author patselby
    I absolutely agree with you that this monoey should have been refunded immediately. I would be like you; not wanting to disclose the person's name. That means that you a good person. Whom ever it is that is not giving you the refund should be extremely happy that you are a good person and realize that not everyone would be that understanding and patient.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by gibbey View Post

    You risk nothing! You have a No-Risk 365 Days 100% Money-Back Guarantee! .....

    I am ready to complain to PayPal, his ISP, the FTC, the BBB and to create several websites warning others of what I have gone through....
    A No-Risk 365 Day 100% Money Back Guarantee raises red flags for me. I would not believe it. I would believe a 1, 2, 3 month guarantee, but not a year.

    It sounds like he doesn't have the money. You're wasting your time with Paypal. Long past due to even file a dispute. Also waste of time to contact the ISP. They don't get involved in purchase disputes. I've emailed the FTC ... nothing came of it. I doubt some ebook seller is going to be worried about the BBB. Actually, you have little recourse other than don't purchase from him again at this late stage in the game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    A few answers in the thread show that
    some of you aren't real business owners it's sad
    that you're allowed to give advice to other business
    owners IMO.

    LOL @ running out of money. Well that's what happens
    when you hustle on the internet and not run a real business.

    A real business first off wouldn't take 100% of the money
    out of the business to do anything. Not even a product launch.

    Every business should have a retainer fund. I mean you put
    all your money into a product launch and you don't have
    $200 left for a refund. That would have to be the dumbest
    business owner in the world.

    Like I say. We honor every refund ASAP. If you are hurt over
    1 little refund than you obviously don't have the capacity to
    run a full-scale successful business in my opinion.

    Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven D Smith
    It's nice to see a lot of support being offered to the OP today. It was disappointing to see some Warrior Forum members supporting the seller last night.

    Honoring a guarantee is a virtue every member of this forum should have. I have no problem with a seller who states upfront that there is no guarantee.

    However, if a seller offers one he must honor it.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author keweus
    LOOKIE: Power Web Copywriting Made Simple

    Make up your own mind, why is a measly $200 not being refunded right away?
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    • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
      keweus,

      I hope that web page isn't yours...

      ..because I honestly felt quite turn off from his copywriting on that page to even want to buy that copywriting course from him.

      What with all the numerous underlines and what not.

      And he doesn't state the price anywhere (until all the way at the paypal page)! That's quite ridiculous. So it's free?

      You know what? I feel a mini course on "How to Do Money Back Guarantees the Right Way" is in order.
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  • Profile picture of the author PRsubmits
    Interesting perspectives here.

    While many products sold on Clickbank don't live up to the claims on the sales page, at least one knows if you refund it will be prompt and no questions asked.
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  • Profile picture of the author ContentIn48Hours
    I'm glad everything worked out. I also hoped that this thread helped. I'm willing to bet that it did.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by Sportsmarketer View Post

      I'm glad everything worked out. I also hoped that this thread helped. I'm willing to bet that it did.

      Steve

      I agree Steve,

      Thanks,

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author bryan85
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author gibbey
      Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post

      4 months for a refund???????

      Dude...this is one big F*&%^% dishonest marketer... and it's people like this that really gives us honest marketers a stinky name... go on... complain the SH%^ out of him.. get him busted


      Absolutely,

      I can't argue with you.

      But its done and hopefully this will help others.

      I know the marketer is a member here and has sold stuff here. There seems to be a good group of people that like him or his stuff so he must be doing a little bit right. Maybe this is what he needed to keep on the right track...

      I'll tell you one thing.... I will make sure that if I am not happy with a product I will make sure I request a refund within 1 month no matter if it has a 1 month MBG or not......

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Smith
    At the end of the day if you state a guarantee then no matter what you need to honour that said guarantee, just because you didnt like that particular product does not mean you will not buy another product from them in the future. But now this IM has lost this customer for ever. Not very smart business sense to me.
    I would like to know who he is so I do not make the same mistake.
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