I make a killing when I run a sale, should I permanently lower price then??

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Hey guys, long time no see!

I'm posting here because I am interested in hearing your thoughts on this. WF tends to give slightly different advice than some of the other marketing groups I am in...

Anyway, my product has been priced at $159 for the last 2 years. It sells pretty well at that price point. This $159 is marked as 20% off the "regular price" of $199. In other words, it is always "on sale".

About 4 times per year, I lower the price down to $119, which is a 40% off sale. I advertise these as "sales" based on the holiday (Black Friday, etc.)

My day to day sales at the $159 price point are pretty decent. I tend to make about 2 to 4 sales per day at that price point. Remember, this is still "on sale" down from the "regular price of $199".

However when I run these 40% off holiday sales, which brings the price down to $119, I make a KILLING! People go absolutely crazy over this, and I tend to make like 20 to 30 sales per day!

I'm wondering if it would make sense to just lower the price down to $119 permanently, and then just never run any additional holiday sales that further lower the price?

My concern is that I'll be "racing to the bottom". Other entrepreneur groups say that you should always be raising your prices, but WF tends to have the "set the price to what works best" attitude. And that is exactly why I am asking this question here
#killing #lower #make #permanently #price #run #sale
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Anyway, my product has been priced at $159 for the last 2 years. It sells pretty well at that price point. This $159 is marked as 20% off the "regular price" of $199. In other words, it is always "on sale".
    That is how the 'my pillows' guy got in trouble with the law....his 'sales price' advertised day after day was not a 'sales price' but the normal price. Have you ever sold your product for $199 for any period of time?

    Other entrepreneur groups say that you should always be raising your prices, but WF tends to have the "set the price to what works best" attitude. And that is exactly why I am asking this question here
    If you are always raising your prices...what's the goal? Eventually you'll have no sales. Your product is a want rather than a need which is probably why you have really good sales numbers when you run the sales.

    My day to day sales at the $159 price point are pretty decent. I tend to make about 2 to 4 sales per day at that price point. Remember, this is still "on sale" down from the "regular price of $199".

    However when I run these 40% off holiday sales, which brings the price down to $119, I make a KILLING! People go absolutely crazy over this, and I tend to make like 20 to 30 sales per day!
    How many days does the 'sale' run? Do the numbers decline toward the end of the sale? Have you tried to keep the sale going for a longer period of time? Have you tried more frequent sales - like every other month rather than only on holidays? I know you've had advice in the past to add more products or to add more 'tiers' to your product if you felt you needed something more.

    I may be more cautious than some here...but....

    If I had a product close to 'evergreen' as yours seems to be and had 21 sales a week at $159 ($3300) and once a quarter had a 'sales week' that brought in over $20k in sales I wouldn't be playing with my price...I'd be working to improve my ads. I might try running sales at $139 a couple extra times a year, etc.



    You often mention the 'real price is $199' - but no, it isn't. If you always sell at $159...that's your price. It is amazing that you can still run regular sales and get that ROI. I don't see any reason to lower your regular price of $159...you are getting almost predictable sales numbers at that price. I would not wound or kill a Golden Goose by squeezing dollars - but I've said that to you before.


    Want to increase your day to day sales? Increase your ad exposure. Want to increase your annual income? Add a couple more sales or change the SALES price here and there. Add more products or 'add-ons' to increase choices/value/profit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      That is how the 'my pillows' guy got in trouble with the law....his 'sales price' advertised day after day was not a 'sales price' but the normal price. Have you ever sold your product for $199 for any period of time?

      I wasn't aware that you could get in trouble that way. No, the highest that it's ever been was $159. I assume that "20% off $199 = $159" looks more appealing that just "$159". I haven't tested the latter though.



      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      If you are always raising your prices...what's the goal? Eventually you'll have no sales. Your product is a want rather than a need which is probably why you have really good sales numbers when you run the sales.

      I raised my price 2 years ago from $69 to $159, and I have not increased since. I still believe that my product is massively underpriced. However that does not change the fact that I have only made 1 single price increase in 2 years. So no, I am not constantly raising my prices. I am looking to find the ideal price point.



      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      How many days does the 'sale' run? Do the numbers decline toward the end of the sale? Have you tried to keep the sale going for a longer period of time? Have you tried more frequent sales - like every other month rather than only on holidays? I know you've had advice in the past to add more products or to add more 'tiers' to your product if you felt you needed something more.

      The sales typically last for 5 days. I have tried to let the sale run for an extra day, and the sales volume tends to stay the same during the final day. During the sales, I typically send out 3 emails during the 5-day period. I do notice that sales volume tends to be higher on the days that the emails are sent out. However, overall sales volume is typically boomin' as long as the sale is running.


      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      If I had a product close to 'evergreen' as yours seems to be and had 21 sales a week at $159 ($3300) and once a quarter had a 'sales week' that brought in over $20k in sales I wouldn't be playing with my price...I'd be working to improve my ads. I might try running sales at $139 a couple extra times a year, etc.

      All good suggestions. I will try some of those things. So it sounds as if doing a PERMANENT decrease down to $119 is not recommended.



      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You often mention the 'real price is $199' - but no, it isn't. If you always sell at $159...that's your price. It is amazing that you can still run regular sales and get that ROI. I don't see any reason to lower your regular price of $159...you are getting almost predictable sales numbers at that price. I would not wound or kill a Golden Goose by squeezing dollars - but I've said that to you before.

      Correct, and yes I agree. I'm not looking to make drastic changes. However, I can't help but to scratch my head wondering why such a small dollar amount difference causes SO MANY PEOPLE to "buy" vs "not buy".


      For example...I used to do a sale, where the sale price was $14 less than the regular price. I wasn't using paid ads back then either, so is was all free traffic. During these sales periods, I would again make an absolute killing.


      So it used to be: $69...meh, but $55...everyone goes crazy


      Now it's: $159...meh, but $119...everyone goes crazy


      Same product both times.


      It doesn't make sense to me.



      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Want to increase your day to day sales? Increase your ad exposure.


      I will definitely do this. Thank you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

        However, I can't help but to scratch my head wondering why such a small dollar amount difference causes SO MANY PEOPLE to "buy" vs "not buy".

        For example...I used to do a sale, where the sale price was $14 less than the regular price. I wasn't using paid ads back then either, so is was all free traffic. During these sales periods, I would again make an absolute killing.

        It doesn't make sense to me.
        Feels like we've been dejaing this vu forever . Maybe you've just trained your prospects to wait for the next regular quarterly sale. The only way to know that is to stop all sales for a year and then review the figures.

        But really, who knows. If the current strategy's working, you're obviously doing something right.

        I agree with Kay about the phantom "regular" price. If you've never actually charged it, that just sounds scammy.
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post


        So it used to be: $69...meh, but $55... $14.00 difference


        Now it's: $159...meh, but $119...everyone goes crazy That is a $40.00 difference!


        Same product both times.


        It doesn't make sense to me.

        .
        Say someone is making minimum wage, they have to work a few extra hours to pay the difference. It also may impact their weekly or monthly budget.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    From what I've read, the FTC no longer prosecutes/enforces pricing practices so not a problem for you - UNLESS there are state laws that apply to you. Sorry I brought it up.



    One thing I HATE about Google these days is the SE seems to get so caught up in the most political or recent news...it's difficult to find information on a previous legal issue or story. Turns out the 'mypillows' was based on the BOGO/coupon codes so doesn't apply to you....but I did find an interesting article on the pricing practice...


    https://news.nd.edu/news/disclosing-...ptive-pricing/


    You say you have about 4 'holiday' sales....why not add a 'spring vacation sale' or an 'it's my birthday' sale or a 'sounds of summer' or 'strummin' through winter' sale? Try different prices with the $119 reserved only for the 'best' sales.



    You could run a sale one week a month or every other week without changing your LISTED price. Just thinking with my fingers here - feel free to ignore me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      But really, who knows. If the current strategy's working, you're obviously doing something right.

      Yes it is working, but it never hurts trying to look for ways to improve!


      I agree with Kay about the phantom "regular" price. If you've never actually charged it, that just sounds scammy.[/QUOTE]




      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You could run a sale one week a month or every other week without changing your LISTED price. Just thinking with my fingers here - feel free to ignore me.

      This is a good idea, and definitely something worth considering. I just worry that if I run sales TOO OFTEN, then most people would just completely stop buying when it's not on sale.


      I follow a guy who sells a Jiu-Jitsu course, which he sells for a one-time fee. His "regular price" is $297, but he has had it "on sale" for almost 2 years now at $97.


      I personally bought in at $297 over 3 years ago.


      I'm guessing this guy has been having more luck at the $97 price point!


      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

      Say someone is making minimum wage, they have to work a few extra hours to pay the difference. It also may impact their weekly or monthly budget.

      That does make sense...


      But this just makes me wonder why $119 doesn't seem to be a problem when the product is "on sale".


      However, $69 is too expensive when the product is NOT "on sale".


      THAT is the part that I am trying to figure out here
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  • Profile picture of the author TobiMDD
    I think people simply love the 'on sale' stuff...
    I wouldn't change a thing apart from increasing everything for example..(if you want to)
    so instead of $159 regular and sale $119 it could be $259 regular and on sales events $201 (just a random example)
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I don't know what your ad costs, etc are - but take the mid-point numbers of what you sell daily at regular price and what you sell 4x a year at sales...you have ONE product you have been selling for..years?...and your gross income is well over $200k a year. I may be off but that's what I think I've read...

    I'd call that a win win. Sometimes the best thing to do is relax and recognize that 'life is good'.


    As for pricing and why people pay what they do - you'll never understand people. No one really does. One pricing model that has been successfully used in IM for many years is what I call 'progressive pricing'. A new IMer will pay $7 for a 'how to'...a couple months later he'll pay $17 for a 'blueprint' and then not long after he'll pay $27 or $37 for an ebook. A few months later that same IMer will not balk at paying $67 for a business 'system' or $99 for a full MMO course....followed by $297 $497, $997 coaching, done for you, etc.



    An analogy might be watering houseplants. If the soil is dry you add 1-2 drops of liquid soap to the container of water. That breaks the surface tension and allows the soil to absorb the water. IM 'gurus' know that initially selling low priced products overcomes sales resistance of new online marketers.


    Having a product with reliable sales over time would make me want to broaden/strengthen my 'product platform' with the goal of continuation of sales. Other IMers might aim for immediate max profit instead. I get that.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Having a product with reliable sales over time would make me want to broaden/strengthen my 'product platform' with the goal of continuation of sales. Other IMers might aim for immediate max profit instead. I get that.
      I cant agree more with this... once you have sold to someone... they WILL BUY AGAIN. be it picks or T SHIRTS ( yelling at Bkelly301 right now hahaha ) or trying to get hooked up with a guitar ambassador deal and see what that leads to.

      Instant dollars is the short term view of any business... the REAL money is getting those that have bought into you already, to buy more ( like a once a month T-SHIRT club haha )
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      • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        sold to someone... they WILL BUY AGAIN. be it picks or T SHIRTS ( yelling at Bkelly301 right now hahaha ) or trying to get hooked up with a guitar ambassador deal and see what that leads to.

        Instant dollars is the short term view of any business... the REAL money is getting those that have bought into you already, to buy more ( like a once a month T-SHIRT club haha )
        Yup I definitely haven't forgotten about all the suggestions I've gotten from here regarding re-selling to my customers.

        It's just that I've always seemed to be able to get by making a nice living with this one single product. I have a few other projects in the works (one being merch), but my motivation to follow through with those other projects is low since I'm not super concerned with trying to build up a new income stream.

        I am always left scratching my head after running a sale though...like damn...all it took was a few bucks off and then suddenly everyone and their mother is buying!!
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Kind of basic math here.... The fact is regardless of how many people you onboard ( sell to ) the amount of work remains about the same for YOU... so 4 x $159 a day vs say 20 x $119 a day Its kinda a no brainer?

    I might try this: set you base price to $159 and run 10% off for a month... do you get more sales? Next month run at 20% off - do you get even more sales? then 30%.. then the last month drop to 40%.

    In a months time do sales fall flat? do they stay consistent... because the immediate time frame ( next 4 months ) does not include a psychologically primed ( buy buy buy ) holiday will you see an increase?

    Bottom line here is you have a set amount of effort ( making videos ) that you are going to be doing if you have 4 onboards a day, or 20. This is a matter of optimizing your cash flow. $600 a day vs $2000 a day.

    I have a feeling your sweet spot will fall in the $129 or $139 range.. and I might go so far as testing $134 as well.

    Best of luck man!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


      Bottom line here is you have a set amount of effort ( making videos ) that you are going to be doing if you have 4 onboards a day, or 20. This is a matter of optimizing your cash flow. $600 a day vs $2000 a day.

      I have a feeling your sweet spot will fall in the $129 or $139 range.. and I might go so far as testing $134 as well.

      Best of luck man!
      This is a great plan that I can follow step by step. Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Raz
    If the price is permanent, it's no longer a sale.

    I remember I read this statement a long time ago: "Honesty is the best policy"

    Just my 2 USDT.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I am always left scratching my head after running a sale though...like damn...all it took was a few bucks off and then suddenly everyone and their mother is buying!!

    Perspective #1: "If I lower the price maybe I'll get that many sales every day"


    Perspective #2: "Wow - THAT special sale worked well"


    It's all in how you interpret it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Perspective #1: "If I lower the price maybe I'll get that many sales every day"


      Perspective #2: "Wow - THAT special sale worked well"


      It's all in how you interpret it.
      Perspective #3: Wow that is awesome, I am happy. I wonder if I can optimize further though?
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post


    I'm wondering if it would make sense to just lower the price down to $119 permanently, and then just never run any additional holiday sales that further lower the price?
    No, that wouldn't make any business sense...and wouldn't help in the least bit.

    Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post


    So it used to be: $69...meh, but $55...everyone goes crazy

    Now it's: $159...meh, but $119...everyone goes crazy

    Same product both times.

    It doesn't make sense to me.
    There's a very simple reason why this happens. I think you know what it is, but you're overlooking it...

    When your price is $159, people can buy it for $159 today, tomorrow, maybe next week, maybe sometime...

    when you have a sale and it's $119, people know they can only buy it for $119 during the sale.

    Your sale is creating urgency. It gets them up off the couch and motivates them to take action NOW.

    You can keep your price at $159 and still create urgency...

    "order in the next 3 days and you'll also receive a xxxxxx"

    So, creating urgency DOES NOT mean you need to lower the price. There are many creative ways.

    Hopefully this makes sense to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      You can keep your price at $159 and still create urgency...

      "order in the next 3 days and you'll also receive a xxxxxx"

      So, creating urgency DOES NOT mean you need to lower the price. There are many creative ways.

      Hopefully this makes sense to you.
      Good stuff. This gives me something to think about and makes perfect sense. Thank you!
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  • Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

    $1592$15920%$199 [I]always[/IAbout$11940%$1594$19940%$1192030$119
    This the access code to Benedict Cumberbatch's PERSNL CHUTE?

    Thing is, if'n you figured yr dream audience, you can flash all kinda figures.

    But what is the STORY now, 'bout your offah as was vs now?

    It is so easy to drill down on a flurry of statistics delivahed easily an' instantly to your very sensorium courtesy of THE DASHBOARD.

    But what does she reveal, this evident monstah before your eyes?

    (Blink now, an' you spare yusself from bein' turned to stone forevah.)

    Thing is, what is in view an' how does it pan?

    The figures guys will be along any minnit.

    ima jus' mooshie the numbahs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bkelly301
      Originally Posted by dforthster View Post

      can i know what product you are selling?
      It's my own course. I've been working on it for about 8 years now, so it's been growing over the years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
    Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post


    I'm wondering if it would make sense to just lower the price down to $119 permanently, and then just never run any additional holiday sales that further lower the price?

    2 things.


    1. The reason people jump on it is because it's on sale at a lower price. If you go to $119 then you'd have to sell it at $99 for a sale.



    2. Have you ever sold that item at full price?
    Do you have records showing it?


    If not, then running that permanent sale can get you into deep do do.


    If someone were to complain about it and they looked into it you could be in save the watch mode (so deep in crap that you pop hand out of the mess and say 'save the watch').


    If you don't have records then you need some sales at that price point to show.


    Have a good one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Hi Bkelly301,

    I think one of the reasons that your Sales do so well is because that price point/offer is Time Limited. And they're getting a great deal. However if you lower your price to the Sale's price -- it probably wouldn't do as well ... Because there's no sense of urgency (etc.).

    That said -- I think it's worth testing difference price points to see which is most profitable for you. (Sometimes even increasing the price results in more conversions because the "perceived value" goes up.)

    HTH
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  • Profile picture of the author Zoheb M
    One social aspect to consider: people usually keep money aside, and wait, for the shopping season. It's one reason why the numbers are high. Perpetual lower rates might not lead to the same sales numbers as on the holidays.
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Late to the game but think can add something, though I will rehash good advice you've already gotten.

    As I see it, there are three things that come into play:

    Using me as an example:
    I go online, look at things, compare prices, but don't have a strong reason to buy now, so I bookmark, (often think of bookmarking mentally only) and never get back to buy... Worse, a week or three later, when I have to buy, I do my research again, from scratch, and decide on a different website as the best, and buy from them.

    So, your marketing is getting two types of people:
    1. the ones who've convinced themselves it's now or never (and for them it's always now).
    2. the ones who're at the beginning of the buying cycle (or earlier than last stage anyway) and you're not giving them enough reasons to skip a few steps. Your "Save 20%" or whatever percentage you offer moves a bunch of them quite fast to the 'I-gotta-do-it-now" stage.

    People have price point scales in their heads for everything. Sometimes they are aware of that, sometimes they are not. In any case, these scales are not entirely logical.

    A little anecdote featuring, you guessed it, the most important person on earth, me.

    I do not remember what the item I was shopping for was. I remember that my 2 finalists had it for $599 site A and $605 site B.

    I came upon site A first. When I got to site B and saw $605, I recoiled, Damn, that's expensive, I thought. And I clicked away. Seconds later, I thought, Hey. That's only 6 bucks of difference.Clicked the back tab and considered them. I bought from them (they had better "if-things-do-not-go-as-planned policies than site A).

    So, When you run a sale, you're getting the people who say to themselves, anything over $120 ($160, etc.) is ridiculous. Or, anything under $120 ($160, etc.) is a steal. And that's on top of the others.

    The last, already covered, people like thinking they're getting something for nothing. When you run a sale, you're telling them they're getting something for nothing. It doesn't matter how much that something is, all that matters is that they're getting something for nothing. (Yes, there are people for whom it matters, you're getting those too, if you hit their number. But you're definitely hitting the ones who just need to feel they've got more than what they're paying for. And a sale signals that to them quite clearly that they are getting something for nothing.


    People are odd, you may never figure out the exact thing for everyone, which can be annoying for you, but it is not necessary that you know why someone does something, just that they do.

    In one of his books or emails, Dan Kennedy wrote about presenting a sale. Apparently he asked a live audience (me, not being a native speaker of English, have a really hard time with the concept of live audiences as to me the default is live, you only have to use an adjective for other things). He asked them which is better, 33% off, buy 2 get one free or buy 3 for $30 (or some such number) when the full price for one is $15.

    You may have noticed that, in terms of math, they're all the same. However, Dan said from a buyer's math, that's not so. Because some people cannot figure out what 33% of something is, how much they're saving if they buy $45 for $30 or that 33% off seems more impressive than $15 off (or the other way around). So, he said, present it all ways (as in, if you mention it six times in your sales letter, make sure each way is present at least once). He makes sense to me. Because I have met people.

    Which, somehow, gets me thinking, have you tried other numbers but 159? Like 157, for instance?

    Anyway, you're contending with a bunch of reasons. If I were in the same situation, I would say, who cares why it's happening and I would focus on setting myself up with the versions that makes me the most money.

    Originally Posted by Bkelly301 View Post

    Hey guys, long time no see!

    I'm posting here because I am interested in hearing your thoughts on this. WF tends to give slightly different advice than some of the other marketing groups I am in...

    Anyway, my product has been priced at $159 for the last 2 years. It sells pretty well at that price point. This $159 is marked as 20% off the "regular price" of $199. In other words, it is always "on sale".

    About 4 times per year, I lower the price down to $119, which is a 40% off sale. I advertise these as "sales" based on the holiday (Black Friday, etc.)

    My day to day sales at the $159 price point are pretty decent. I tend to make about 2 to 4 sales per day at that price point. Remember, this is still "on sale" down from the "regular price of $199".

    However when I run these 40% off holiday sales, which brings the price down to $119, I make a KILLING! People go absolutely crazy over this, and I tend to make like 20 to 30 sales per day!

    I'm wondering if it would make sense to just lower the price down to $119 permanently, and then just never run any additional holiday sales that further lower the price?

    My concern is that I'll be "racing to the bottom". Other entrepreneur groups say that you should always be raising your prices, but WF tends to have the "set the price to what works best" attitude. And that is exactly why I am asking this question here
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