Amazon wants my domain name. Can I defy them?

169 replies
Amazon wants my domain name. Can I defy them?
I'm selling kindles (ereaders) as an Amazon affiliate on my site which I bought from the previous owner who began the site in March this year. I have good income from this site, but now amazon send me an email "requesting" my domain name ( amazon-kindle-store.net) because the name is using their trademarks.
However, they did tolerate me and the previous owner in their affiliate program for 6 months. Until now.
I really would like to keep the site and income, especially now with the Christmas sales coming. But I'm afraid they will block the cheques coming my way.
I noticed they use in their email the following words: "We request that you choose a new domain name and transfer your content to that name." They do not use the word "demand" or something like that.
They also will buy my domain name for the "initial registration price" . Right, so I get about 10 dollars for this name. No way. I rather eat it than giving it to them.
Question: what can I do? They are very, very late in taking action against me using the domain name. It took them 6 months! And they also allowed me during this time to use their affiliate program. Therefore my feeling is that their legal ground on this matter is not big.
What can I do? My first tactic is do nothing. But if they persist? What are my chances to win from Amazon?
#amazon #defy #domain
  • Profile picture of the author Eric Graudins
    How deep are your pockets?
    Because on the face of it, I reckon that this is a pretty clear case of trademark infringement, and you'd be wasting your money trying to defend this.
    And the fact that it's taken their legal department 6 months to contact you is irrelevant.
    And don't expect the friendly manner to continue if you refuse.

    (Note: The above is not legal advice in any way, shape, or form. I am not a lawyer, the above is probably dead wrong, and probably should be totally ignored. )

    Cheers,
    Eric G.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave d
    If you set up or buy a site with a trade marked domain then you take the risk that one day your successful may be no more. I have had domain names deleted without any notice because of complaints by major companies.

    As above fight it if you want but you may need some major legal fees. Best of to let it go and take it as lesson learned.

    Dave d
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  • As the both above posters have said, you might aswell give amazon there domain, they'l only take you to court and you will end up paying the court cost's, better to drop it and move on rather then take on a mutlimillion pound company.
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  • Profile picture of the author shaddai
    Here's how I understand it, and I'm not a lawyer by any means.

    Amazon trademarked a term (the kindle, or amazon kindle I would imagine) that you've got in your domain name, so you've violated their trademark rights. If they do nothing to defend their exclusive use of that trademark, the trademark is 'smoke' and anyone can have rights to the name amazon kindle....like you...or Sony.

    So, rather than waste all the effort of trademarking a name & letting just anyone go use it, they've (rather politely amazingly enough) asked you to stop using it in order to protect their trademark.

    You could comply and ask them to give you your $10, so you could buy another domain to move to...which would suck. Or you could not comply and see how long you can last while Amazon turns up the heat & reaches for the lawyers...which would suck much worse.

    Just my thoughts...
    Todd
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Perhaps you should read the Amazon affiliate T&Cs here Amazon.com Help :Conditions of Use

      Just put it down to experience and move on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Graudins
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          (i) Ask them for a small amount of money for the domain-name. It's always worth negotiating, and you never know: they might just pay you $50 or $100 for it. You won't find out if you don't ask, anyway.
          That's not a good idea, because you then also become a cybersquatter trying to profit from improper use of a trademark, as well as a trademark infringer.

          Suck it in, collect the registration cost, and put it down to experience.
          cheers,
          Eric G.
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        • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Three things ...

          (i) Ask them for a small amount of money for the domain-name. It's always worth negotiating, and you never know: they might just pay you $50 or $100 for it. You won't find out if you don't ask, anyway.

          (ii) Being in contact with them will forestall legal action anyway. As long as you're talking to them, don't worry about receiving notification of sudden court proceedings from them.

          (iii) I think it's extremely unlikely that they'd try to retain your affiliate commissions while they're dealing with this. That's a different department, and it would probably not be legal for them to do that, either.

          Apart from that, I agree with everyone above. Good luck!

          Please note: I'm not a lawyer but am available to play one on TV if any casting directors are reading.
          Well said. I couldn't agree more however, I'm not a lawyer too..but this is one reasonable advice you have here..

          Just tell them that you are indeed open to hand them the domain, that you respect them as one of the leaders in online retail..but tell them to please understand that you have spent tremendous effort and resources to bring it to what it is now..you won't ask for much but a fair compensation would be very much appreciated..

          all the best,

          omar
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        • Profile picture of the author gregbanks
          Alex be careful with this point. There's something called "cyber squatting" that they might refer to if you try and sell the name to them.

          Cyber Squatting is where you take their trademark and then try and sell it back to them. You don't hear about it too much but it's definitely something you can get stung for.

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


          (i) Ask them for a small amount of money for the domain-name. It's always worth negotiating, and you never know: they might just pay you $50 or $100 for it. You won't find out if you don't ask, anyway.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
            Originally Posted by gregbanks View Post

            Alex be careful with this point. There's something called "cyber squatting" that they might refer to if you try and sell the name to them.

            Cyber Squatting is where you take their trademark and then try and sell it back to them. You don't hear about it too much but it's definitely something you can get stung for.
            100% Correct...Amazon is probably rubbing their hands and just *waiting* for the "offer".
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              This thread is a classic example of why it's a bad idea to take advice on legal issues (and many other kinds) from people in forums.

              Some of the advice here has been right on the money. Some of the creative suggestions have potential to work for everyone involved.

              Some of this stuff, though, is just plain dangerous. The kind that can mean losing your home and car, any savings or investments you might have, your credit rating, and suffering the personal problems that might go along with those losses.

              Don't think you have much to lose? Judgements can haunt you for a long time. I have a friend who lost his business and his family because he followed the kind of bad advice I'm seeing here. He's a broke, depressed, stressed-out nervous wreck, and has been for years.

              Folks... before you give someone advice on issues like this, consider what's really at risk. Think about what might happen to the person you're advising if they take your suggestions and you're wrong. And be honest with yourself about how much you really know - or don't know - about the subject.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author MaryT
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                This thread is a classic example of why it's a bad idea to take advice on legal issues (and many other kinds) from people in forums.

                Some of the advice here has been right on the money. Some of the creative suggestions have potential to work for everyone involved.

                Some of this stuff, though, is just plain dangerous. The kind that can mean losing your home and car, any savings or investments you might have, your credit rating, and suffering the personal problems that might go along with those losses.

                Don't think you have much to lose? Judgements can haunt you for a long time. I have a friend who lost his business and his family because he followed the kind of bad advice I'm seeing here. He's a broke, depressed, stressed-out nervous wreck, and has been for years.

                Folks... before you give someone advice on issues like this, consider what's really at risk. Think about what might happen to the person you're advising if they take your suggestions and you're wrong. And be honest with yourself about how much you really know - or don't know - about the subject.


                Paul

                well pointed Paul,
                the best advice on this thread

                i suggest you take legal advice if you want to go this way, but whatever actions you take against Amazon, it's a risky business.

                don't be greedy, and rebuild a store instead with your knwoledge, you'll proabbly do it much faster than the orginal one, with some extra tweaks

                all the best
                Mary
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        • Profile picture of the author Peter.Anthony
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Three things ...

          (i) Ask them for a small amount of money for the domain-name. It's always worth negotiating, and you never know: they might just pay you $50 or $100 for it. You won't find out if you don't ask, anyway.

          (ii) Being in contact with them will forestall legal action anyway. As long as you're talking to them, don't worry about receiving notification of sudden court proceedings from them.

          (iii) I think it's extremely unlikely that they'd try to retain your affiliate commissions while they're dealing with this. That's a different department, and it would probably not be legal for them to do that, either.

          Apart from that, I agree with everyone above. Good luck!

          Please note: I'm not a lawyer but am available to play one on TV if any casting directors are reading.
          I agree that yo can't win this battle, but if you can delay until after the holidays, you can make some money and build a new site in the new year.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lyn Woodring
        Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

        Perhaps you should read the Amazon affiliate T&Cs here Amazon.com Help :Conditions of Use

        Just put it down to experience and move on.
        I looked at their trademarks from this link and I didn't see kindle on it. Its early and I haven't had my coffee...

        Aside from that there are a few things I don't understand; one is that you can't trademark a common name or phrase. Microsoft tried with windows I believe. I think microsoft windows was but not windows. So maybe somebody has an idea why these names are listed: bottom of the page, 1-click, share the love, goldbox, easysell, a design, easysell, new for you and my favorite, amazon vine.
        And they have denali listed there which is also a GM SUV, and also an Alaska state park.
        What gives?
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Lyn,
          And they have denali listed there which is also a GM SUV, and also an Alaska state park.
          What gives?
          Trademarks are about commerce. There is no chance of anyone confusing an SUV with an Amazon product. Likewise with a state park. So, no trademark issue.


          Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Lyn Woodring View Post

          I looked at their trademarks from this link and I didn't see kindle on it. Its early and I haven't had my coffee...

          Aside from that there are a few things I don't understand; one is that you can't trademark a common name or phrase. Microsoft tried with windows I believe. I think microsoft windows was but not windows. So maybe somebody has an idea why these names are listed: bottom of the page, 1-click, share the love, goldbox, easysell, a design, easysell, new for you and my favorite, amazon vine.
          And they have denali listed there which is also a GM SUV, and also an Alaska state park.
          What gives?
          Amazon does in fact have a live trademark registered for Kindle
          Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)

          Any use of kindle in relation to readers will be an infringement, whether Kindle is also a generic term or not. The only way you could possibly claim that your use was generic would be to have a domain name completely unrelated to the the category that the Amazon Kindle trademark is in, which of course, you don't.

          Ask for money for it at your own risk. That only proves to WIPO that you intended to profit from someone else's trademark.
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        • Profile picture of the author davezan
          Originally Posted by Lyn Woodring View Post

          one is that you can't trademark a common name or phrase.
          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post1365815
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

            Good point -- don't get your legal advice from an online marketing forum.
            Especially from people with no skin of their own in the game.

            If any of the folks telling him to ignore or fight the request are willing and able to indemnify him, step up and say so.
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  • Profile picture of the author davezan
    Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

    What are my chances to win from Amazon?
    Frankly, zip. The others already explained why.

    Up to you what to do. And good luck if you wish to defy Amazon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thaddeus
      Coincidentally, I was talking to an internet lawyer last night and I asked him the very same question.

      My understanding of what he said is that I should forget any thoughts of registering any URL's containing any brand names as it's clear infringement and - at best - I'll lose the site whenever the owner decides to catch up with me.

      Not too clear on misspellings, or what happens when the brand name also functions legitimately as a stand alone English word. Such as, in your case, an URL like www.kindleyourinterestinbooks.com

      Whatever happens, you'll need unbelievably deep pockets if you decide to make a stand.

      Thad
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  • Profile picture of the author Gavin Abeyratne
    This isn't a battle I think you should fight.

    1) Register a new domain that doesn't have a trade mark in it.

    2) Put "amazon kindle" in the URL through either the WP permalink structure, or html/php filename.

    3) SEO again from scratch.

    Not the best outcome, but hey, at least you've found a buying niche and have content to sell them with even if you have to redo it.

    Gavin
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  • Profile picture of the author zzapper
    Originally Posted by ProductCreator View Post

    Having said that, it will cost them thousands in manpower and preparation to even go the WIPO route. I suggest you offer them the domain for $1,000 making clear that you don't want them to go the expense of legal proceedings.
    And say you'll transfer immediately if they agree
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Warning, Will Robinson!

    If you ask for more than the cost of registration, you run the risk of falling afoul of the laws regarding domain name squatting. Do NOT do this!

    I would ask them if it's okay to continue to use the domain name if you include a conspicuous disclaimer that "Amazon Kindle" is a trademark of Amazon, LLC (or whatever the appropriate terminology is), in order to ensure their trademark is protected.

    They MUST act to protect their trademark, or they lose it. There's a very small chance they'll go for that offer.

    If not, just give it to them. Don't even ask for the registration fee. If they want the domain name, they're going to get it. Being stubborn over it is just being stupid. It's begging for expensive legal hassles that you clearly don't want, can't win, and won't profit from.

    Playing with other people's trademarks is a dangerous game. You played, now you're getting into the consequences.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricky Parker
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Warning, Will Robinson!

      If you ask for more than the cost of registration, you run the risk of falling afoul of the laws regarding domain name squatting. Do NOT do this!

      I would ask them if it's okay to continue to use the domain name if you include a conspicuous disclaimer that "Amazon Kindle" is a trademark of Amazon, LLC (or whatever the appropriate terminology is), in order to ensure their trademark is protected.

      They MUST act to protect their trademark, or they lose it. There's a very small chance they'll go for that offer.

      If not, just give it to them. Don't even ask for the registration fee. If they want the domain name, they're going to get it. Being stubborn over it is just being stupid. It's begging for expensive legal hassles that you clearly don't want, can't win, and won't profit from.

      Playing with other people's trademarks is a dangerous game. You played, now you're getting into the consequences.


      Paul
      The OP is answered here.
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  • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
    Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

    Question: what can I do?
    1. Reply them with an email thanking for taking so long to take action. (6 months of income)
    2. Thank them for being so polite with their request.
    3. Remove content and transfer the domain to them.
    4. Find another product, repeat process.

    Your chances to win with Amazon? none.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roger Mayne
    Regarding holding affiliate commissions, here's a story of what happened to a friend of mine a couple of years back.

    He had a domain that "sounded" (when spoken) like a mobile phone service providers name. He was redirecting the traffic via affiliate links to their site. When they discovered his domain name, they sent him similar requests AND held back his commissions. He did eventually win the case, as it wasn't strictly trademakr infringement, and they relented, but the whole thing took about 6 months, and he earned nothing during the process.

    Now he's back on track and earning nicely from it.

    HOWEVER, I don't think you'll win this case. You've definitely infringed on their copyright, and would be well within their rights to cancel your affiliate agreement if they so wished.

    As others have advised, get a new domain name, transfer your content and use SEO to gain back the traffic and income.
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  • Profile picture of the author HomeBizNizz
    Ask if you can get some free stuff if you do give it up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lyn Woodring
    I guess I'm confused about what a trademark is.
    Does this mean that (if I had the money) I could build a car and call it coke-cola and call it the real car!
    I'm kidding about that (a little) but I do remember when auto zone started out they were known as auto shack and I seem to remember they had to change it.
    I noticed they had amazon vine listed but amazon tribe.
    Too much time on my hands I think.
    But thanks Paul.
    -Lyn
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Lyn,

      Coca-Cola is an invented word, so that would be much less clear-cut. You could probably name a car "Kindle," though. As long as it didn't include an ebook reader...

      'Denali' is interesting because of its origin. It's an Athabascan (early native-American language group) word for 'pinnacle' or 'highest.' Sort of like 'Acme,' but with more class.

      I wonder if the root is related to the Navajo name for themselves... Dineh. The People.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Lyn Woodring View Post

      I guess I'm confused about what a trademark is.
      Does this mean that (if I had the money) I could build a car and call it coke-cola and call it the real car!
      I'm kidding about that (a little) but I do remember when auto zone started out they were known as auto shack and I seem to remember they had to change it.
      I noticed they had amazon vine listed but amazon tribe.
      Too much time on my hands I think.
      But thanks Paul.
      -Lyn
      Technically, it IS illegal to copyright, patent, or trademark, simple terms, etc... ALAS, too many succeed in doing that. One click ordering and amazon for amazon.com are two such cases. In the past, companies even mispelled names to get a trademark.

      HECK, INTEL GAVE rights to other companies for the 286 and ANY resulting technology. It was a LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT! Well, once Intel was out of the hole, and made money on OTHER companies work(THEY got most of the profit will little added cost), they created a SMEAR campaign to destroy the 80286! The 80386 was not REALLY that different, and the other companies started making that 80286 work like a 386, 486, and the new 586! Well, INTEL took them to court, and EVEN tried copywriting the number! LUCKILY, the judge had a couple braincells and said YOU CAN'T COPYRIGHT A NUMBER! And the pentium was born. pent for 5, so that was obviously the fabled 586.

      They used numbers for circuits before I was even born. That was BEFORE intel! So Intel never even came up with the concept. And it was certainly NOT the first time that a company came out with a similar chip with the same numbers.

      STILL, if you use a WEAK trademark to compete or advertise, you might as well be screaming TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT! Using two weak, but otherwise unrelated, trademarks is the same way.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author mikeyman120
    Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

    I noticed they use in their email the following words: "We request that you choose a new domain name and transfer your content to that name."
    It looks like the only problem they have is using their trademarked name in your domain. Of course your content says amazon kindle all over it but they don't care about that just the domain.

    So simply replace the keywords Amazon and Kindle in your domain with something similiar and you are set. For example I had a few sites with ebay in the domain and ebay contacted me and wanted me to let the domains expire. So I got new ones and simply replaced the word EBAY with AUCTION and I was back in business.

    So instead of "Amazon Kindle" you can use a keyword like "Wireless Reading Device" or something similiar in your domain.

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author PhilJL
    As others have said, get over it and drop the domain. There's no doubt that people looking for a kindle are looking for the Amazon Kindle and not for your site. On top of that, Amazon would rather not pay commissions if people came via your website.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    my domain name ( amazon-kindle-store.net)
    i stopped reading there....if you're lucky you only have ONE trademark in there, but i think its actually two. No chance in hell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    There's nothing you can do - either let them buy the domain from you and transfer your info to another site, or lose your site and probably affiliate account.

    Some battles are too big to be fought.
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  • Profile picture of the author greff
    If Amazon wants that name, they can probably get it just by dragging you through the legal coals. Most legal experts would recommend Trademarking the domain name. Did you do that?
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    • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
      Re: Amazon wants my domain name. Can I defy them?
      No you cannot defy them. You might have had chance with just "kindle" in there and a fat lawyaers wallet, but amazon-kindle clearly defines it as their kindle.
      Don´'t waste energy on this. Give it to them. Learn from it. Move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    That letter is the most polite that I have ever seen concerning this type of cases. They could have sued you immediately without any warning. If you ask for more money, they may accuse you of cybersquatting.

    There are situations where you can use a domain with a trademark legally, but it must not involve any profit at all. You clearly do not have any case here. If you persist, you may end up digging a much bigger hole yourself and sued for heavy damages.

    Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    My husband is a former attorney - you need to just chalk this one up and give it to Amazon...

    ETA: You actually have two trademark violations in the domain...Amazon and Kindle. They're not going to PAY you for a domain that technically they already OWN.
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  • Profile picture of the author lanta99
    Amazon - Greek Mythology. A member of a nation of women warriors reputed to have lived in Scythia.

    Kindle - To build or fuel (a fire).

    Switch the site to have something to have a story about women warriors building a fire or something...or just do a 301 redirect.

    Tell them that you removed the copyrighted content and that the page was converted to something else.

    Oh, but if you get sued it's not my fault :S
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      If you had deep enough pockets, you might be able to convince the right judge that your use of Amazon's trademarks falls under Fair Use. I trust that the site markets the Kindle and products for it exclusively, right?

      But this is a case where, even if you did win on that basis, you lose on violating the spirit of the TOS for the affiliate program.

      Caught between those two pincers, the wise move is to accept their offer as made, quickly and politely. The only negotiation I personally would even try would be to buy some time so I could benefit both parties through the Christmas shopping season.

      One more thought - when they offered the original cost to you, you could ask them if that means the amount you paid for the domain, or what the original registration fee was. Whatever their answer, say "OK" and move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Money on the Side
    I'm not an attorney...but an avid gambler, so my advise is this:

    If you are making money, ignore them until they get (really) serious. It will cost them a lot of money to sue you. If/when it comes to that point, give it up. There are a lot of companies that send these letters out to defend their trademarks, but rarely do they get serious and launch a suit against you.

    I've been involved with Internet marketing since 1995 and threatened with lawsuits (including trademark infringement by ebay, amazon, numerous sports franchises, etc) more times than my calculator has digits for...and I still haven't been to court on a single one.
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasGreg
    Also let this be a lesson not to buy trademarked name domains form other people. I bet the seller of that domain got the same notice and just decided to sell it to someone else so he didn't have to lose his time or investment. Obviously he didn't disclose that in his sales pitch.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    tilanus,

    Do you have *******PROOF******* they "LET YOU"?!?!? That would require some PERSON to email you or write to you from Amazon saying that they LET you! If they didn't NOTICE your name, that is NOT acceptance!

    As for your chances to win? You even DARE ask!?!?!? Let's see...

    1. Use of trademarks. Neither alone is really a valid trademark and MAYBE you could get away with it, but TOGETHER!?!?!? NO WAY!
    2. Use IN CONTEXT, and even ONE trademark would make me say NO WAY!
    3. It goes to THEIR site, so forget that!

    I am not a lawyer, but I think any lawyer would say you would have NO chance of winning!

    BTW killercopy is wrong! You know what it might cost them to sue you? About $50! Do you REALLY think they don't have an attorney on retainer?!?!?!?

    BTW that first letter may be counted as notice, and I think they might give like 3 before REALLY escalating it. Of course, if they sent a letter to the previous owner, THIS might be #2, or even #3!

    And WHY would they block the checks? I'm sure they will just SHUT DOWN YOUR ACCOUNT, and there will be no checks to block. That IS in their TOS, and is their right anyway!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Money on the Side
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      BTW killercopy is wrong! You know what it might cost them to sue you? About $50! Do you REALLY think they don't have an attorney on retainer?!?!?!?
      So, based on your logic, Amazon is trying to save $40 in legal fees by offering him ten bucks for his domain name?

      If you think it costs $50 to sue someone, it is you that is wrong. Regardless of whether or not you have an attorney on retainer, cost plays a significant factor. The company I work for has at least a dozen lawyers and believe me, law suits are a big deal, no matter what the issue is...and I'm sure Amazon's attorneys are very busy and have bigger fish to dry than amazon-kindle-store.net.

      The fact is, there is a good portion of Amazon's business that comes from affiliates. Believe me, they do not want the bad press from the Internet giant stomping on the people that are making them money. Not, that a lawsuit can't happen--it certainly could, but most likely they will move on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Regardless of whether or not you have an attorney on retainer, cost plays a significant factor.
        Yeah. An even bigger factor is losing a trademark due to excessive dilution.

        Are you even paying attention???


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          tilanus,

          Good luck. You and your wishful thinking are going to need it. Given that this whole conversation happened in public, you're going to have a very hard time denying that you knew any of these possibilities/liabilities when it comes down to crunch time.


          Paul

          PS: I hope you don't have any significant affiliate Amazon commissions you expect to get paid...
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            tilanus,

            Good luck. You and your wishful thinking are going to need it. Given that this whole conversation happened in public, you're going to have a very hard time denying that you knew any of these possibilities/liabilities when it comes down to crunch time.


            Paul

            PS: I hope you don't have any significant affiliate Amazon commissions you expect to get paid...

            ..Or assets like a house, car, lifesavings etc etc because when Amazon win (and they will) they'll be after those unless you've a few $100k's to settle!
            I can't stress like Paul how very very serious this could get. I'd speak to a trademark lawyer asap but I think he'll tell exactly what Paul has stated - send them a reply stating you're sorry and work the details for the transfer of the domain. That way they won't ban your from their affliate program.

            Rich
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by killercopy View Post

        So, based on your logic, Amazon is trying to save $40 in legal fees by offering him ten bucks for his domain name?

        If you think it costs $50 to sue someone, it is you that is wrong. Regardless of whether or not you have an attorney on retainer, cost plays a significant factor. The company I work for has at least a dozen lawyers and believe me, law suits are a big deal, no matter what the issue is...and I'm sure Amazon's attorneys are very busy and have bigger fish to dry than amazon-kindle-store.net.

        The fact is, there is a good portion of Amazon's business that comes from affiliates. Believe me, they do not want the bad press from the Internet giant stomping on the people that are making them money. Not, that a lawsuit can't happen--it certainly could, but most likely they will move on.
        Like Paul said, they are REQUIRED to defend their trademark. HEY, Microsoft went against a KID, mike rowe! REMEMBER THAT!?!? NISSAN went against NISSAN, remember THAT!?!?!?

        As for the filing fee? I think I DID say LIKE, but it was what I heard a while ago. OK, it looks like it IS $350(Based on the Washington District courts site for a civil case.). STILL, that is cheaper than paying THOUSANDS. YOU keep talking about $50 like it is $50! Those 268 TLDs I showed you are LEGIT! MOST cost MORE than $10. BUT, even a $10 charge for each would be OVER $2680! SOME are not even open to US citizens! And how many tradename variants are there? How many subordinate domains? It could easily get into the millions.

        So the CHEAPEST way is to make an example, where they may be able to EVEN get the money back, and then we can say HEY, they convicted people for THIS BEFORE!

        Did YOU know it is "legal" to steal from WALMART!?!? They have OFFICIALLY said that they may allow a certain amount of pilfering by a person. The NEXT attempt, however, will be convicted. IMAGINE if everyone heard that, figured they would push things, and decided to go in and steal CDs, etc.... HEY, some police may even allow drunk driving, reckless driving, etc.... STILL, *I* don't want to chance it, DO YOU!?!?

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          tilanus,
          I think Killercopy knows more about this issue than let's say a guy who knows how to catch a fish.
          This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read or heard all week. You deserve exactly what you're going to get.

          proapc,
          Once it is not doing business, they cannot charge you with violating their TM. As long as it is not used in commerce, they cannot come after you.
          Yes, they can. And yes, you're still using it in commerce if it's resulting in traffic based on the name, and/or on rankings attained through previous use. At least that's true if the new domain is also selling Kindles or related products.

          I'm not a lawyer, but I'll bet even I could get any judge to treat that line of reasoning as specious.


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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            tilanus,This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read or heard all week. You deserve exactly what you're going to get.

            proapc,Yes, they can. And yes, you're still using it in commerce if it's resulting in traffic based on the name, and/or on rankings attained through previous use. At least that's true if the new domain is also selling Kindles or related products.

            I'm not a lawyer, but I'll bet even I could get any judge to treat that line of reasoning as specious.


            Paul
            And it is INCREDIBLE that people don't seem to realize that ONE employee in a couple minutes could EASILY disable the person's account, clear ALL "commissions owed", and stop any NEW commissions. That is not only legal, and has been done by many before, but is in their TOS. SO, even with NO suits and NO loss of access, what can be acheived? They can even get google to stop sending them traffic.

            Steve

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author John Cabral
    Can you defy them? Sure you can but just how much money do you have to spent fighting their corporate lawyers?

    You domain name has Both Amazon and Kindle which I am sure are trademarks of the company and the fact you are in affiliate it shows that the site is clearly related to Amazon and Kindle so you will lose big time.

    I would chalk this up to experience.

    Granted the advice is not from an actual attorney. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author dorim
    I think the right thing to do is get another domain name that does not infringe on somebody's trade name/copyright. That is the nicest cease and desist letter I've ever seen by the way. Don't waste your time, money and energy fighting a case you will not win.
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    I'd write them a nice letter thanking them for their suggestion and approach. Say it is not needed to pay anything for the domain. You will find a suitable domain replacement and transfer the content there as suggested. Transfer of the domain will be complete by Jan 3rd 2010.

    Since they didn't specify a deadline of when it had to be handed over suggest one. If they tell you to hand it over right away then do it, but try to keep it past the boxing day shopping season.

    Aaron
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  • Profile picture of the author Gail Sober
    I've seen similar situations where the domain owner was able to work out a deal where the ownership of the domain would transfer but they would still allow the person full use of the domain to promote their products.

    Never hurts to ask.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I agree with Alexa, try to negotiate to give yourself time. I am not a lawyer so don't take this as legal advice. This is what I would do.

    I would start building a new site and getting that one built up and SEO done on it. I would also do a 301 permanant on the domain you already have that got you in this trouble to try and keep that traffic.

    If you can stall Amazon past the Christmas season, then the big money you are hopeful for should be safe. Once you have Christmas over, then I would be prepared to just let that domain die. I would not give it to Amazon due to the 301 issue. Unless you really need that $10.

    You can't win this one, so the biggest part of this is to stall and delay. But get working on a new domain and move all the files to that domain and get the traffic moving in that direction. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author bazzais
    They already have a barrel waiting for you. Dont make them do it as it will hurt.

    Give them the domain and move on.

    Ta

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    • Profile picture of the author Soapyshoe
      Negotiate with them. Try to find a win/win solution. They're probably just protecting their trademark. Ask them if there's any resolution that doesn't involve you giving them the domain. See if there's something besides the domain you can offer them.
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Do you really want to wage a legal battle with one of the most powerful forces on the Internet? And just for the sake a a bit of affiliate commission?

    Amazon doesn't fool around, when the new rules regarding taxing affiliates came into effect in several states they immediately dropped their affiliates to avoid any problems - I was one of them as I live in Hawaii. The affiliate sales they lost didn't mean anything to them, it's peanuts to a giant like Amazon. Your affiliate income is equally unimportant to them.

    My advice (which like all of the other advice you have received here is an opinion, not legal council) is to get a new domain name that doesn't infringe upon their trademark and switch your site.

    Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author tilanus
    Thank you very much for your kind(dle) advice,

    I was wondering if amazon had a case against me simply because the email did'n't demand anything from me. Perhaps they try to save money on a laywer or perhaps their action is not that strong.

    The person just requested me to hand over the domain name and he also did not name a date before which I had to reply. Also, as I could feel from his writing he's is not a laywer. He's much too nice for a laywer.

    Citation from his email: "We request that you choose a new domain name and transfer your content to that name. Amazon will purchase your domain amazon-kindle-store.net for the initial registration price, provided that you agree to not register any domains containing Amazon brands, or a misspelling, in the future."

    Wow, great offer. 10 dollars for a site worth thousands of dollars.

    His email ends with: "We look forward to hearing from you.

    Best regards,

    + name + - Associates Account Specialist"

    I think I send him a Christmas card no serious, I think i use the advise not to react and just wait what their next step is. Perhaps they forget just like they forgot that I was their associate for more than 6 months.
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    • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
      Just make sure you're dealing with a real guy from amazon, not someone else social engineering to buy your domain.
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      I think i use the advise not to react and just wait what their next step is. Perhaps they forget just like they forgot that I was their associate for more than 6 months.
      Normally, I am not an "I told you so" kind of guy. But, I did warn you about this domain on your "$6000..." thread, but you were confident Amazon had grandfathered you in.

      The only reason this domain is valuable to you is because Amazon is paying you a commission when someone buys a Kindle through your site. You can wait to take action all you want, but their fastest recourse is to terminate your affiliate agreement, which then makes your domain worthless whether you decide to give it up or fight for it. Furthermore, since you are in violation of their affiliate agreement, they can refuse to pay you any commissions earned that they have yet to pay. So, any commissions you've earned from October forward may not be paid to you if they decide to take this action before late December (another month from now).

      Waiting seems like a bad idea to me considering you have stated that you are making good money with this site and probably have some commissions built up that you do not want to lose.

      Amazon is being kind to you right now, but their patience may not last another month.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raych
      We know they have exclusive rights to their brand names, so that is not even an issue for consideration, so I guess the only question left for you to decide is whether you would like to keep your affiliate status with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author wantselltrade
    Same thing happened to me a couple of years ago with Amazon. Just give it up and they will not pursue. Do not try anything funny with trademark infringement. That is the only thing you can do. You cannot have the name you must give it up and chalk it up to experience, I did.
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  • Profile picture of the author rocketgirl
    You cannot win here and it is NOT worth it. It IS their name and that is the bottom line. I unknowingly did the same thing promoting a diet product using the trademark name for my domain. When they emailed me requesting I push the domain to them, I was hesitant at first. Once I realized it was a clear infringement, I let it go. They were quite nice about it and even sent me a case of the product.

    I really think you should give it up while it is still a pleasant request for their copyright name. It is not worth getting into some legal battle over it.

    Bj
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    • Profile picture of the author debra
      To protect my interests and linking to the site that amazon wants...I would:

      1. Buy a new domain name.
      2. transfer all the content to the new domain...graphics and all.
      3. Set a redirect from the dns level from the old domain to point to the new domain.
      4. continue link building on the new domain.
      5. repurpose all promotional content to new domain.
      6. track incoming traffic from old domain.

      Once the traffic from the old domain dwindled down to nothing...sell the old domain name to amazon.

      And of course, keep a record of all communications from amazon.
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by debra View Post

        To protect my interests and linking to the site that amazon wants...I would:

        1. Buy a new domain name.
        2. transfer all the content to the new domain...graphics and all.
        3. Set a redirect from the dns level from the old domain to point to the new domain.
        4. continue link building on the new domain.
        5. repurpose all promotional content to new domain.
        6. track incoming traffic from old domain.

        Once the traffic from the old domain dwindled down to nothing...sell the old domain name to amazon.

        And of course, keep a record of all communications from amazon.

        Hmmm, do not think that's great advice. You cannot do a redirect as amazon want that domain and technically he is breaking the law by infringing upon their trademark.
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        • Profile picture of the author debra
          Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

          Hmmm, do not think that's great advice. You cannot do a redirect as amazon want that domain and technically he is breaking the law by infringing upon their trademark.
          It worked for me when I had a CPA ring tone up and had the name itunes in the url.

          And...according to the original op...amazon has asked him to move his content to another domain name. That would be a really good clue straight from amazon.

          It doesn't sound like that want to shut him down. They are just after protecting thier trademark. Fair enough and rightfully so.

          Amazon doesn't care when they get the domain name...only that these same cercumstances do not repeat itself. The only way to prevent that is to own the domain name to make it inoperatible for infringement.
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    • Profile picture of the author SantiSantana
      If I were in your position I would first of all email them with that mail you received to make sure it was actually them and not some smart pants trying to swindle you.

      I would thank them for making you aware of this problem (explaining you bought the domain from someone else wrongly assuming it was in the clear due to the length of time gone since you bought it.

      I would then explain that I use it to promote them and agree that if it violates their Tos/T&C and/or federal laws you have no interest in keeping it and threatening your business partnership with them.

      I would then ask if it would be possible to keep it redirected to the new domain name you will get for that website, so as to help BOTH capitalise on the traffic already there.

      If they agree, you are good. Get a new domain and sort out the redirect with them. If they don´t agree, just offer it to them for free on the basis that you prefer to keep the relationship that is making you BOTH money.

      Being honest and trying to negotiate an advantageous arrangement for both parts will most likely ensure you end up on good terms with them whatever the outcome, and if you get your new domain like NOW and redirect straight away while you keep this email exchange with them you buy yourself some time in case they refuse, time you can use to SEO and promote the new omain like mad for the run up to christmas.

      Just my 0.02
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post


        on the other hand, I can't consider 'Windows" as a protected TM, but "Windows XP/Vista/7" should be protected as they have no other meaning..
        And Amazon Kindle has no other meaning either....

        Madonna did win her "name" even though Madonna has other meanings.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Just to let people know, windows was NOT a new concept, even with computers. And it couldn't really be trademarked. M/S windows, microsoft windows, etc, CAN be. ALSO, xwindows, I'm sure, is trademarked.

          BTW addition of a word, such as store, will NOT get rid of the trademark infringment! BESIDES, what does Amazon do? What are they!?!?!?

          Some will say they sell books, or are a bookstore. BZZZT! WRONG! They TRIED that and basically FAILED! People were placing bets on WHEN they were going to fail! Their LOSS margin was equivalent to M/S PROFIT margin. GRANTED, they still do that BUT..... They are a STORE! They now just HAPPEN to sell books. They had a problem with a competitor, B&N, and CLAIMED a patent, which is technically NOT valid! What did B&N do? They CAPITULATED, and now sell through amazon! ToysRus had problems. What did they do? They sold through amazon! I bought supplements, my last computer, computer memory, etc... through AMAZON!

          And people think the word STORE makes it look like you aren't talking about amazon? INCREDIBLE!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Just to let people know, windows was NOT a new concept, even with computers. And it couldn't really be trademarked. M/S windows, microsoft windows, etc, CAN be. ALSO, xwindows, I'm sure, is trademarked.

            BTW addition of a word, such as store, will NOT get rid of the trademark infringment! BESIDES, what does Amazon do? What are they!?!?!?

            Some will say they sell books, or are a bookstore. BZZZT! WRONG! They TRIED that and basically FAILED! People were placing bets on WHEN they were going to fail! Their LOSS margin was equivalent to M/S PROFIT margin. GRANTED, they still do that BUT..... They are a STORE! They now just HAPPEN to sell books. They had a problem with a competitor, B&N, and CLAIMED a patent, which is technically NOT valid! What did B&N do? They CAPITULATED, and now sell through amazon! ToysRus had problems. What did they do? They sold through amazon! I bought supplements, my last computer, computer memory, etc... through AMAZON!

            And people think the word STORE makes it look like you aren't talking about amazon? INCREDIBLE!

            Steve
            Steve, we've tried our best, but it seems the OP knows better than all of us. At least judging from his last post...

            I say, let him have at it. Some of us kids had to touch the stove before we believed it was hot. He seems to be that type.

            I'd just like to be a fly on the wall when he tries to explain that 'amazonkindlestore' is different than Amazon (tm) Kindle (tm) Store, especially on an affiliate site selling Amazon Kindles... :rolleyes:
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            • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

              I'd just like to be a fly on the wall when he tries to explain that 'amazonkindlestore' is different than Amazon (tm) Kindle (tm) Store, especially on an affiliate site selling Amazon Kindles... :rolleyes:
              "Your Honor, I would never have done it if I thought I'd get caught!"

              On a related topic, what about all those review sites that use the product name in the domain name? Like "googlesniperreview" and such. Do the product owners just allow it because the review sites are recommending their products and making them money?
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      • Profile picture of the author Pat Lovell
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Well guys..let's put some heat here..


        First... AMAZON IS NOT A TRADEMARK... Amazon is in fact the geographical name for a famous wild river in America..., Am I right??

        Who then gave this company the rights to claim the name is theirs ?


        Kindle..is as I know an English language verb with different meanings...

        Now, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't have any legal background, but I think this won't be a losing case if you follow it to court..

        I think this "trademark" whole concept is in a need for serious revision...

        the only thing I consider to be a protected TM is a combination of words that has no other meaning but the name of the brand it refers to...

        i.e. Microsoft... I don't think of another use of this term except for referring to the meant brand...

        on the other hand, I can't consider 'Windows" as a protected TM, but "Windows XP/Vista/7" should be protected as they have no other meaning..

        Again, this can't be considered as a legal advice of any kind..just thoughts
        Hopefully, you are trying to be humorous.

        If you are not, you are very, very, very, very wrong about Trademarks.

        You might want to check this out - United States Patent and Trademark Office
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        • Profile picture of the author A Bary
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          • Profile picture of the author Pat Lovell
            Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

            I know my thoughts are weird from the point of the "established trademark" rules", not sure about the laws because again, I'm not a lawyer,,

            But, doesn't it worth a sec of thinking?

            I don't have the right to use "amazon" or " kindle" because some company registered them as trademarks?

            I think there's something missed here..

            Then, why I just dont go and register "United States" as a trademark?


            of course, I won't be able to do so, but, what is the difference here from using "Amazon" as a trade mark?

            My idea (I know it's controversial but I couldn't help when I find a legal loophole), is it really the law or a mis concept the big companies are just using for their advantage?
            Your idea isn't controversial, it's just from someone that is uninformed on this subject. No offense intended. I'm sure you are just unaware of the laws and how they work.

            It's really the Law.

            You couldn't register United States because you are not doing business as "United States" or do you have a reason to register that as a trademark.

            If you want to see a case that has been in the courts for many years. Do a search on Nissan.com and you will see a good example of a big company NOT able to get their domain.

            Nissan Computer Corporation
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            goldmind, you are perfectly free to use the word 'Amazon' when referring to the river in South America. You are also perfectly free to use the word when referring to the mythical tribe of female warriors.

            You are perfectly free to use the word 'kindle' if you are referring to the process of lighting a fire, or any of the other legitimate meanings.

            When you refer to 'Amazon Kindle', you are talking about a specific product by a recognized company. Which, by your own logic, makes it a defensible trademark.

            I'm not a lawyer, either. But I have read enough about the subject to know that, no, it isn't "worth a sec of thinking."

            Amazon.com, likely foreseeing arguments of "Fair Use", built a provision into their affiliate agreement prohibiting the use of either the company name or trademarks in domain names.

            This is the second thread in a week on the subject, and it's getting more whip marks than the $2 steak I had the other day... :p

            Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

            I know my thoughts are weird from the point of the "established trademark" rules", not sure about the laws because again, I'm not a lawyer,,

            But, doesn't it worth a sec of thinking?

            I don't have the right to use "amazon" or " kindle" because some company registered them as trademarks?

            I think there's something missed here..

            Then, why I just dont go and register "United States" as a trademark?


            of course, I won't be able to do so, but, what is the difference here from using "Amazon" as a trade mark?

            My idea (I know it's controversial but I couldn't help when I find a legal loophole), is it really the law or a mis concept the big companies are just using for their advantage?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Game - Set - Match

      Don't even bother trying to fight this one.

      One of these days, marketers are going to understand that they cannot
      use trademarked names for their domain and get away with it forever,
      especially not if the trademark just happens to be owned by a heavyweight.

      Chalk it up as income you should have never had in the first place, be glad
      you got it, and move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Best thing to do is talk to them, in the mean time, grab a new domain, put an instant re direct from your main start and start pumping traffic to the new one.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I believe that the worst thing you can do is ignore them. I think you are missing or glossing over the main point that folks are trying to tell you here. Amazon has a very strong case, you are absolutely infringing on their trade mark rights, in no uncertain terms. I am not sure, but I think this may even cross the line in regards to domain registration law goes. Again, I am not a lawyer, but from what I have read there are laws against domain squatting or something and this may be along those lines, so be very careful.

    As long as you respond to them, and try to come to some amicable solution, you should be ok. The reason that you got a nice email from them, and you believe it to be from a non lawyer is because they don't need to threaten you, yet. You don't have a leg to stand on, and they know it. They have done this more times than you can count, and most folks understand the problems they would face if they don't comply. How much money do you want to squander to defend this domain? It will cost you way more than you have made, if a lawyer will even bother to defend you.

    Try to negotiate to buy yourself some time, so you can get another site built with the same content but a different domain. Start promoting the new site and do the 301 to the new site so you can keep the SEo work already done. Chalk this up to experience and work to make the new domain as successful as the old one and go about your business.

    This is lay opinion and not legal advice. Please seek competent legal council if you need it.
    Signature

    Tim Pears

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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    The biggest problem is the "amazon" in the name, I think. I do know of cases where offline companies have settled with domain squatters and paid money for the domain rather than paying more money to prosecute. However, as Amazon is a huge online retailer, they are hip to these kinds of things and have zero tolerance. You may try asking for more money than $10 but like someone said, it could fall afoul of laws. However, you can write a polite email asking if they will pay more than the domain cost to register, and what that would be, but again that might be a risk. The easiest thing would be to ask them for $10 for the domain, but what's $10, really?

    Best bet, ask how to proceed from here if they were not clear in their initial email. But no, you cannot fight them on this. They are on very steady ground and as they are a huge online retailer, this is probably the number one thing they use their lawyers for, and have likely done this thousands or tens of thousands of times.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
    From a different standpoint, I had a jerk copy my website pages and try and pass themself off as "my own company", using "my company name", so I contacted my lawyer. He advised that I trademark my company name, and rightly so. If you go to court, you'd better be the one holding the trademark if you're going to shut down copycats.

    It's one thing if you have a Kindle Reader and a Kindle Lampshade store, but when you have two "similar" items, it can lead to deceptive advertising, and that is why we protect our company and trademark our names.

    We all love to have affiliates, Amazon included, and that's why they are being nice, but the thing is, you CANNOT represent yourself as "that company", and even if you're not, and only using the domain name for SEO purposes, as I'm sure Amazon can see, it can still potentially infringe upon their reputation, and for that matter, it is quickly, and hopefully, politely squashed.

    I too have used names that are trademarked in my URLs when affiliate marketing, and at first I didn't realize I had done anything wrong, I just thought it would help with SEO rankings, but some companies will not approve and some don't care, You have to read the Terms of Service agreement, and some of the companies I contacted later said it was okay, but with Amazon, you are playing with big fish, and if they ask you to stop using it, just do it.

    You don't have to lose all your content, you just have to pump up the marketing again with a new name, and you will have peace of mind that you are doing the right thing. Be thankful for what you already made, although I know it must hurt, but you have to do what is right.

    At least you didn't go through what I went through last week... after 4 years of heavy marketing on a high paying product, with tons of material out there, the company decided to yank the affiliate program the next day! That was it. Not even a we're sorry to do this to ya! At least I had a redirect on 60% of my marketing, so I just masked and forwarded to a different URL, but I still have to rebuild the links on the site. **** happens.

    Good luck to you!
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    • Profile picture of the author zampire
      I'd ignore them. There is no trademark infringement unless there is consumer confusion about who is responsible for the website, which is very doubtful here.

      Amazon. Look, I just used a trademark. No liability.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by zampire View Post

        I'd ignore them. There is no trademark infringement unless there is consumer confusion about who is responsible for the website, which is very doubtful here.

        Amazon. Look, I just used a trademark. No liability.
        Doesn't ANYONE read the UDRP!?!?!?!? It says this is trademark infringement. ******PERIOD******! There IS something called DILLUTION of the trademark. Besides, confusion STILL exists. If you go onto a website, do you ABSOLUTELY know that is THE site? NOPE!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sashagrey
    sorry to hear about that, that sucks

    maybe you can still get a couple more weeks out of it before christmas.

    I hope you've made more with the site then what you paid for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Paul
    If they decide to sue you than you lose money trying to defend. On the other thand they will give you ten dollars. BTW, they will send you a formal letter from an attorney with intent to sue if you don't sell it to them.

    You violated the affiliate agreement by using their trademark(s). They don't have to pay you anything if you are in violation.

    I suggest you sell it for the $10 and move your content to a new site. Start over and move on.
    Signature
    New Launch in 2019 - Join my free Facebook Group - Step4: Profit! - We help beginners learn strategies to make money online.


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  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    My OPINION on the matter goes something like this:

    It's going to take Amazon time and money to take this domain from you, either legally or through the domain registrar. They're going to get their staff attorneys involved when they could be doing something different.

    You WILL lose the domain one way or another as it is infringing on their right to a trade name. Also, it's not even their option to let you keep it because that opens the door for others (also a violation of their trademark, you must defend your trademark else it becomes unvalid).


    So, write them back and politely explain that you have a significant investment of time and energy into marketing this domain name and selling their products through it. Explain that you would be willing to transfer the domain name for say $500 (which is less than they'd have to pay in attorney's time, but don't tell them that is your reasoning).

    They may just write you back and be more aggressive, OR they might agree, just to get it over and done with and then you've managed to flip the domain, keep the rights to the content, and the only thing you will have "lost" is any kind of backlinking you've done.

    You can't win if you don't play, but the bottom line is that they will take the domain name either way.. so you can try and salvage something with them and negotiate the higher price, or you can just tuck your tail and hand it over for $10 bucks.


    The preceding was an opinion and shall not be construed as legal advice. As always, your mileage may vary.
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  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    BTW, worst case scenario they say absolutely not to the $500 and you sell it to them for the $10 bucks.

    Best case, you get the $500 bucks.... or whatever you deem appropriate to ask for.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      BTW, worst case scenario they say absolutely not to the $500 and you sell it to them for the $10 bucks.
      That is NOT the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario involves him getting nailed for cybersquatting, along with trademark infringement, and losing a ton of money. Then all the potential problems that can follow such an outcome.

      This isn't about proving he's bigger and badder than Amazon. It's about dealing with the consequences of a mistake. Specifically, the mistake of knowingly using someone else's trademark without their prior permission.


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        That is NOT the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario involves him getting nailed for cybersquatting, along with trademark infringement, and losing a ton of money. Then all the potential problems that can follow such an outcome.

        This isn't about proving he's bigger and badder than Amazon. It's about dealing with the consequences of a mistake. Specifically, the mistake of knowingly using someone else's trademark without their prior permission.


        Paul

        I guess anything could happen, but they aren't exactly presenting themselves in a light that would make me think that they're going to take him for everything he's worth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
          Not yet! But they will. As would ANYONE who is having their trademark enfringed upon. They are taking the nicest, easiest route thus far.

          Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

          I guess anything could happen, but they aren't exactly presenting themselves in a light that would make me think that they're going to take him for everything he's worth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          I can't believe all the responses here advising the OP to either ignore the letter or otherwise try to game the system in hopes of seeing how much he can get away with.

          Why spend so much time and energy on what is most likely a doomed attempt to save this one site? It's not like there's a shortage of alternative ways to make money online, and no one should have all their eggs in one basket anyway.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
            I see someone has some sense! Listen to Ken!

            Just an FYI... for anyone that is curious to know - it costs upwards of $80,000 dollars to sue someone in court of copyright infringement, (per my attorney), so can you imagine screwing with a big company over a trademarked name? I can tell you who wins that argument... do you own the trademark or do they?

            Don't listen to BS about bargaining with them - accept you screwed up and do the right thing!


            Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

            I can't believe all the responses here advising the OP to either ignore the letter or otherwise try to game the system in hopes of seeing how much he can get away with.

            Why spend so much time and energy on what is most likely a doomed attempt to save this one site? It's not like there's a shortage of alternative ways to make money online, and no one should have all their eggs in one basket anyway.
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        • Profile picture of the author tj
          Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

          I guess anything could happen, but they aren't exactly presenting themselves in a light that would make me think that they're going to take him for everything he's worth.
          If you would read their TOS then you would see what they are doing ... protecting their trademark.

          Timo
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

            I beleive these domain names would fall under the jurisdiction of free speech and not trademark infringement as there is no mistaking these sites as being official Google owned websites so they are not miss-leading as to the content of the site let alone who owns it.
            You have the right idea, but the wrong phrase. It has nothing to do with "free speech." The term you want is "Fair Use."
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        That is NOT the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario involves him getting nailed for cybersquatting, along with trademark infringement, and losing a ton of money. Then all the potential problems that can follow such an outcome.

        This isn't about proving he's bigger and badder than Amazon. It's about dealing with the consequences of a mistake. Specifically, the mistake of knowingly using someone else's trademark without their prior permission.


        Paul
        Paul,
        I think there's an echo in here but thank god there is! People listen to Paul. If you start demanding money for a trademarked domain from the trademark holder you're opening yourself up to a possible additional lawsuit. This could be financial suicide as there has been cases of trademark holders sueing for $100,000's of dollars for cybersquatting. That's the reality. You play with fire and you could get charcoaled quickly!

        Rich
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    • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      BTW, worst case scenario they say absolutely not to the $500 and you sell it to them for the $10 bucks.

      Best case, you get the $500 bucks.... or whatever you deem appropriate to ask for.
      Seems to me I read that a trademark or servicemark holder could successfully sue for 100k when infringement is substantiated AND that they can do so without having to send out a cease and desist (C&D) letter. You've already received one C&D. Be careful.

      PS --- I am not an attorney --- opinions are pesonal.

      Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      BTW, worst case scenario they say absolutely not to the $500 and you sell it to them for the $10 bucks.

      Best case, you get the $500 bucks.... or whatever you deem appropriate to ask for.
      NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!! HERE is something CLOSER to the worst case!

      1. SHUT DOWN YOUR AFFILIATE ACCOUNT ****RETROACTIVELY**** to the last pay check. If they "owe" you $100,000, just kiss it GOOD BYE!

      2. SHUT DOWN your domain name, for violation of the UDRP and trademark infringment, and assking for $500 just strengthens their case.

      3. SHUT DOWN you domain, for violation of trademark infringment.

      4. Haul you into court.

      BTW amazon can't really afford $500, as it would bankrupt them! HOW? Well, and keep in mind this is just PART of SOME TLDs on ONE keyword!

      1 amazon.aero
      2 amazon.asia
      3 amazon.biz
      4 amazon.cat
      5 amazon.com
      6 amazon.coop
      7 amazon.edu
      8 amazon.gov
      9 amazon.info
      10 amazon.int
      11 amazon.jobs
      12 amazon.mil
      13 amazon.mobi
      14 amazon.muse
      15 amazon.name
      16 amazon.net
      17 amazon.org
      18 amazon.pro
      19 amazon.tel
      20 amazon.trav
      21 amazon.ac
      22 amazon.ad
      23 amazon.ae
      24 amazon.af
      25 amazon.ag
      26 amazon.ai
      27 amazon.al
      28 amazon.am
      29 amazon.an
      30 amazon.ao
      31 amazon.aq
      32 amazon.ar
      33 amazon.as
      34 amazon.at
      35 amazon.au
      36 amazon.aw
      37 amazon.ax
      38 amazon.az
      39 amazon.ba
      40 amazon.bb
      41 amazon.bd
      42 amazon.be
      43 amazon.bf
      44 amazon.bg
      45 amazon.bh
      46 amazon.bi
      47 amazon.bj
      48 amazon.bm
      49 amazon.bn
      50 amazon.bo
      51 amazon.br
      52 amazon.bs
      53 amazon.bt
      54 amazon.bv
      55 amazon.bw
      56 amazon.by
      57 amazon.bz
      58 amazon.ca
      59 amazon.cc
      60 amazon.cd
      61 amazon.cf
      62 amazon.cg
      63 amazon.ch
      64 amazon.ci
      65 amazon.ck
      66 amazon.cl
      67 amazon.cm
      68 amazon.cn
      69 amazon.co
      70 amazon.cr
      71 amazon.cu
      72 amazon.cv
      73 amazon.cx
      74 amazon.cy
      75 amazon.cz
      76 amazon.de
      77 amazon.dj
      78 amazon.dk
      79 amazon.dm
      80 amazon.do
      81 amazon.dz
      82 amazon.ec
      83 amazon.ee
      84 amazon.eg
      85 amazon.er
      86 amazon.es
      87 amazon.et
      88 amazon.eu
      89 amazon.fi
      90 amazon.fj
      91 amazon.fk
      92 amazon.fm
      93 amazon.fo
      94 amazon.fr
      95 amazon.ga
      96 amazon.gb
      97 amazon.gd
      98 amazon.ge
      99 amazon.gf
      100 amazon.gg
      101 amazon.gh
      102 amazon.gi
      103 amazon.gl
      104 amazon.gm
      105 amazon.gn
      106 amazon.gp
      107 amazon.gq
      108 amazon.gr
      109 amazon.gs
      110 amazon.gt
      111 amazon.gu
      112 amazon.gw
      113 amazon.gy
      114 amazon.hk
      115 amazon.hm
      116 amazon.hn
      117 amazon.hr
      118 amazon.ht
      119 amazon.hu
      120 amazon.id
      121 amazon.ie
      122 amazon.il
      123 amazon.im
      124 amazon.in
      125 amazon.io
      126 amazon.iq
      127 amazon.ir
      128 amazon.is
      129 amazon.it
      130 amazon.je
      131 amazon.jm
      132 amazon.jo
      133 amazon.jp
      134 amazon.ke
      135 amazon.kg
      136 amazon.kh
      137 amazon.ki
      138 amazon.km
      139 amazon.kn
      140 amazon.kp
      141 amazon.kr
      142 amazon.kw
      143 amazon.ky
      144 amazon.kz
      145 amazon.la
      146 amazon.lb
      147 amazon.lc
      148 amazon.li
      149 amazon.lk
      150 amazon.lr
      151 amazon.ls
      152 amazon.lt
      153 amazon.lu
      154 amazon.lv
      155 amazon.ly
      156 amazon.ma
      157 amazon.mc
      158 amazon.md
      159 amazon.me
      160 amazon.mg
      161 amazon.mh
      162 amazon.mk
      163 amazon.ml
      164 amazon.mm
      165 amazon.mn
      166 amazon.mo
      167 amazon.mp
      168 amazon.mq
      169 amazon.mr
      170 amazon.ms
      171 amazon.mt
      172 amazon.mu
      173 amazon.mv
      174 amazon.mw
      175 amazon.mx
      176 amazon.my
      177 amazon.mz
      178 amazon.na
      179 amazon.nc
      180 amazon.ne
      181 amazon.nf
      182 amazon.ng
      183 amazon.ni
      184 amazon.nl
      185 amazon.no
      186 amazon.np
      187 amazon.nr
      188 amazon.nu
      189 amazon.nz
      190 amazon.om
      191 amazon.pa
      192 amazon.pe
      193 amazon.pf
      194 amazon.pg
      195 amazon.ph
      196 amazon.pk
      197 amazon.pl
      198 amazon.pm
      199 amazon.pn
      200 amazon.pr
      201 amazon.ps
      202 amazon.pt
      203 amazon.pw
      204 amazon.py
      205 amazon.qa
      206 amazon.re
      207 amazon.ro
      208 amazon.rs
      209 amazon.ru
      210 amazon.rw
      211 amazon.sa
      212 amazon.sb
      213 amazon.sc
      214 amazon.sd
      215 amazon.se
      216 amazon.sg
      217 amazon.sh
      218 amazon.si
      219 amazon.sj
      220 amazon.sk
      221 amazon.sl
      222 amazon.sm
      223 amazon.sn
      224 amazon.so
      225 amazon.sr
      226 amazon.st
      227 amazon.su
      228 amazon.sv
      229 amazon.sy
      230 amazon.sz
      231 amazon.tc
      232 amazon.td
      233 amazon.tf
      234 amazon.tg
      235 amazon.th
      236 amazon.tj
      237 amazon.tk
      238 amazon.tl
      239 amazon.tm
      240 amazon.tn
      241 amazon.to
      242 amazon.tp
      243 amazon.tr
      244 amazon.tt
      245 amazon.tv
      246 amazon.tw
      247 amazon.tz
      248 amazon.ua
      249 amazon.ug
      250 amazon.uk
      251 amazon.us
      252 amazon.uy
      253 amazon.uz
      254 amazon.va
      255 amazon.vc
      256 amazon.ve
      257 amazon.vg
      258 amazon.vi
      259 amazon.vn
      260 amazon.vu
      261 amazon.wf
      262 amazon.ws
      263 amazon.ye
      264 amazon.yt
      265 amazon.yu
      266 amazon.za
      267 amazon.zm
      268 amazon.zw

      Besides, their job is NOT to reward you for breaking the law.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author tj
      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      BTW, worst case scenario they say absolutely not to the $500 and you sell it to them for the $10 bucks.

      Best case, you get the $500 bucks.... or whatever you deem appropriate to ask for.
      Worst case - getting sued for domain squatting and trademark violation thanks to professional advice like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    It is actually pretty simple . You have Amazon's proposal.

    They own the trade mark

    Now you could offer to negotiate for more than $10.

    This could piss them off to the point of really checking into your situation and simply not paying you any more commissions .

    Right now they are only doing what is required by law for them to do .... protect their Trade mark

    You could have just as easily been given a formal c&d . If it was me ... My files would already be transferred to a new domain and I wouldn't even worry about the ten bucks .
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    You need to pick your battles. Pick the ones you can win.
    This is not one of them.
    If you go head to head with amazon, you will not lose just your domain. They may ban you as an affiliate. So you will get a doube whammy.
    Earlier this year, I was fired as an amazon affiliate because my state (Hawaii) wanted to tax amazon. This really put a small dent in my botton line as I get a check from amazon every month. Luckily the state of Hawaii backed down (for now).
    So cut your losses and put your products on another domain. Use SEO, put up an email capture system and build up your list of kindle customers. Good luck...
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by pizzatherapy View Post

      You need to pick your battles. Pick the ones you can win.
      This is not one of them.

      If you go head to head with amazon, you will not lose just your domain. They may ban you as an affiliate. So you will get a doube whammy.
      Earlier this year, I was fired as an amazon affiliate because my state (Hawaii) wanted to tax amazon. This really put a small dent in my botton line as I get a check from amazon every month. Luckily the state of Hawaii backed down (for now).
      So cut your losses and put your products on another domain. Use SEO, put up an email capture system and build up your list of kindle customers. Good luck...
      That I can agree with.


      I suppose the bottom line is that opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone's got one and most of them stink.

      Although, I'm curious to find out what happens, so to the OP please keep us updated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
        That is why it is best to know the actual legal implications and a person's rights in a subject like this. Spouting off about bargaining with a company, and giving bad advice to a person that has violated another company's terms of service, and using a trademarked name without permission is ill-informed advice unless you have already had experience with this.

        Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

        That I can agree with.


        I suppose the bottom line is that opinions are like a$. Everyone's got one and most of them stink.

        Although, I'm curious to find out what happens, so to the OP please keep us updated.
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        • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
          Originally Posted by Michele Miller View Post

          That is why it is best to know the actual legal implications and a person's rights in a subject like this. Spouting off about bargaining with a company, and giving bad advice to a person that has violated another company's terms of service, and using a trademarked name without permission is ill-informed advice unless you have already had experience with this.
          This is why I stated that it was an OPINION and just what I would do...
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
        Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

        I suppose the bottom line is that opinions are like a$. Everyone's got one and most of them stink.
        Good point -- don't get your legal advice from an online marketing forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
    It seems a bit odd that they're offering to pay you up to $10 for your registration fee. Wouldn't Amazon just issue a cease and desist, a slam dunk transfer demand, etc?

    If you violated their trademark and they're coming to take what belongs to them, why offer any payment at all?

    Something smells fishy.

    Are you sure this was from Amazon?

    How do you know it wasn't from one of those tricksters pretending to be from a big corporation?

    See if you can verify the source of this request. It could be a shake down artist trying to scam you out of your domain name.

    Even if the email turns out to be bogus, you should know by now the risk you take by registering a domain name that contains a trademark.
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by zampire View Post

      I'd ignore them. There is no trademark infringement unless there is consumer confusion about who is responsible for the website, which is very doubtful here.

      Amazon. Look, I just used a trademark. No liability.
      Well, did you aim to make money off Amazon's trademark using it here? Unlike
      the OP who wanted to profit from it with his registration and use.

      If most people who posted here associated the domain with Amazon, why do
      do you think consumer confusion is doubtful?

      BTW, tilanus, go to the links below:

      Search WIPO Cases and WIPO Panel Decisions

      National Arbitration Forum

      Type in Amazon under complainant, and let us know what you find.

      Least bad result is simply losing the domain name. The worst....well....I'm sure
      you can imagine.

      But...if you wish to further defy them, up to you inspite of what everyone has
      pretty much said here.
      Signature

      David

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    • Profile picture of the author madscots
      I tend to agree with this post, especially seeing the way the OP says the email was signed. First I would contact Amazon.com and make sure the email was indeed sent by them. If it was, then give them their property, you can't win this one, they will take what is theirs, and pile on the lawyers to do it.

      But first I would make sure I wasn't being scammed. you can't be too careful today.





      Originally Posted by Michael Taylor View Post

      It seems a bit odd that they're offering to pay you up to $10 for your registration fee. Wouldn't Amazon just issue a cease and desist, a slam dunk transfer demand, etc?

      If you violated their trademark and they're coming to take what belongs to them, why offer any payment at all?

      Something smells fishy.

      Are you sure this was from Amazon?

      How do you know it wasn't from one of those tricksters pretending to be from a big corporation?

      See if you can verify the source of this request. It could be a shake down artist trying to scam you out of your domain name.

      Even if the email turns out to be bogus, you should know by now the risk you take by registering a domain name that contains a trademark.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Defy them if you want to be either sued or the name taken from you via WIPO. These threads keep coming up and people give the advice that it's ok to steal other people's trademarks, but the fact is, it isn't ok and if they've demanded the domain name, your best bet is to give it to them as quickly as possible and then to stop cybersquatting. Not only did you infringe on their trademarks, but you infringed on two of their trademarks all in one domain name.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Here's the first question you need to ask yourself.

    Are you prepared to spend $500,000 to defend yourself? That is what it will cost, win lose or draw.

    If you're not prepared to go that deep, sell the domain to them, and use the money they give you to get a new domain name and build a better store.

    If you are, then talk to a lawyer, and figure out your chances of winning. Again, if you don't have a leg to stand on, settle as quickly as you can so you can spend your resources on developing a new store instead of fighting a losing battle.

    Whichever way you choose, I wish you good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pat Lovell
    I'm speaking from experience, I've had this happen to me twice, no, I didn't learn the first time

    I received a nice email very similar to the one you received. I ignored it thinking they wouldn't do anything. About 6 weeks later, I received a certified letter from their law offices with instructions on how to transfer the domain to them and a time period to comply. They continued to inform me of the pending suit and how they would continue if I didn't comply with their instructions.

    I complied and they dropped the suit.

    It happened with 2 large companies that DID take the time to follow through.

    If you listen to the "Forum Lawyers" that are giving you terrible advice, you will end up screwed.

    From someone that has been through this, move your content, remove the nameservers and transfer the domain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    I will keep this polite as possible.

    The fact that you even created this thread shows a gross lack of common sense, intelligence, and you only have yourself to blame for this situation.

    by the way, I'm refering to purchasing the domain in the first place which contained a trademarked name.

    The fact that it has been operating in the past is irrelevant, you do not know when amazons management were alerted to its presence. they could have only found out a couple of days beforehand, either way, YOU ARE THE ONE IN THE WRONG AND IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

    now, as for the HALFWITS TELLING YOU TO SELL THE DOMAIN BACK TO AMAZON WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE VIOLATING THEIR TRADEMARK, ARE YOU PEOPLE THAT F*CK*NG STUPID? *rolls around the floor laughing*

    I cant believe what I am reading, members of this forum, the most important IM forum on the net, ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO BREAK THE LAW EVEN FURTHER AND MAKING THINGS WORSE.

    unbelievable.
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

      I will keep this polite as possible.

      The fact that you even created this thread shows a gross lack of common sense, intelligence, and you only have yourself to blame for this situation.

      by the way, I'm refering to purchasing the domain in the first place which contained a trademarked name.

      The fact that it has been operating in the past is irrelevant, you do not know when amazons management were alerted to its presence. they could have only found out a couple of days beforehand, either way, YOU ARE THE ONE IN THE WRONG AND IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

      now, as for the HALFWITS TELLING YOU TO SELL THE DOMAIN BACK TO AMAZON WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE VIOLATING THEIR TRADEMARK, ARE YOU PEOPLE THAT F*CK*NG STUPID? *rolls around the floor laughing*

      I cant believe what I am reading, members of this forum, the most important IM forum on the net, ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO BREAK THE LAW EVEN FURTHER AND MAKING THINGS WORSE.

      unbelievable.
      ???

      And who are you to judge others being stupid, ignorant, and missing the common sense??

      Where on the thread you find an advice to break the law?

      I think you need to see a therapist, you need a serious treatment for delusions and hallucination..

      And yes, this forum is the premium IM forum, the only problem with this forum is the lack of a way to prevent people like you from accessing it...
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        ???
        And who are you to judge others being stupid, ignorant, and missing the common sense??
        Wasnt judging, I was observing.

        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Where on the thread you find an advice to break the law?
        The numerous posts not only putting forward but encouraging the idea of him trying to SELL a domain name he has NO LEGAL RIGHT TO back to the RIGHTFUL OWNERS OF THAT NAME.

        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        I think you need to see a therapist, you need a serious treatment for delusions and hallucination..
        Your the one that thinks trade mark infringement laws are stupid, nor do you seem to have any comprehension or understanding of intellectual property.

        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        And yes, this forum is the premium IM forum, the only problem with this forum is the lack of a way to prevent people like you from accessing it...
        incidentally, i am one of only a few posters in this thread that has actually used some common sense and written a post worth taking note of that does not suggest breaking the law.

        If you are still unsure about how the op is in violation of the law, I suggest you Google: US patent office, or look up copyright and intellectual property in wikipedia.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I understand what you are trying to get across but I hope you can see the difference between

    amazon-kindle-store.net and save-the-amazon-rainforest.org
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    I'm amazed that, two pages on, the OP still thinks this is worth pursuing. Fortunately I don't think I've ever seen two pages that screamed 'Go and see a lawyer!' more loudly - some of the posts would have been almost funny if they weren't so dangerous, and some of the posters seem to have drawn their legal 'knowledge' from afternoons spent watching courtroom scenes in 'Columbo'.

    Just one more thing. If you still think this is worth pursuing... go and see a lawyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author tilanus
    Well, thanks for all your advise on this matter.

    When I'm reading the posts there are still 2 things which I would like to point out:

    1. Sure, amazon and kindle might be trademarks and using these words as your doman name is not allowed, but 'amazonkindlestore' is not a registered trademark.

    Of course the trademarks are used within the domain name but the domain name is to my knowledge not the same as a trademark. Or is it?

    So kindle.com would be called cybersquatting, but not kindlestore.com simply because kindlestore is not a trademark.

    2. Amazon has allowed the previous owner into their associate program with this very domain name: amazon-kindle-store.net They did not mention at all this was an infrigement on their trademarks. So, taking this latest email from amazon seriously they made a mistake in the first place by accepting the domain name.

    So far I never knew there would be a problem with trademarks within your domain. I come accros more than often privately owned websites with a trademark in the domain.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      Well, thanks for all your advise on this matter.

      When I'm reading the posts there are still 2 things which I would like to point out:

      1. Sure, amazon and kindle might be trademarks and using these words as your doman name is not allowed, but 'amazonkindlestore' is not a registered trademark.

      Of course the trademarks are used within the domain name but the domain name is to my knowledge not the same as a trademark. Or is it?

      So kindle.com would be called cybersquatting, but not kindlestore.com simply because kindlestore is not a trademark.

      2. Amazon has allowed the previous owner into their associate program with this very domain name: amazon-kindle-store.net They did not mention at all this was an infrigement on their trademarks. So, taking this latest email from amazon seriously they made a mistake in the first place by accepting the domain name.

      So far I never knew there would be a problem with trademarks within your domain. I come accros more than often privately owned websites with a trademark in the domain.


      You are probably right ... go ahead and defy them. I'm sure they won't mind at all. Or you might Google Trademark, or if that's too much trouble, just go here and read this
      Chilling Effects Clearinghouse: Trademark
      or not ... you seem to have a firm grip on legal matters, so why bother. Defy them and maybe even register some more. I've heard there's lots of money in Ebay domains too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Ok dude, il be a little nicer,

    if you google "kindle" you get a bunch of links refering to "The AMAZON kindl" in the titles and reviews and picture search results.

    Hence the "KINDLE" is associated with "AMAZON.COM" as it is the name of a product which has been long awaited for release by them.

    and when most people refer to amazon, it usually is not in context of the rainforest, but amazon.com.

    My point is that those to words "amazon" and "kindle" are related, and when you put them both into a domain name, it is miss leading as there are a large group of people who see that and will most likely associate that domain as an official site for the new device when it is not.


    IF you were to do something stupid or something which would jeopardize the reputation of the brand, people would associate your site as being the official site and cause a potential massive headache for them.

    This is what amazon is not happy about.

    P.S it is strange they accepted it originally, but hey that's irrelevant because you shouldn't be using it anyway.

    and get over it dude, it aint worth you going bankrupt over a domain name that you shouldn't be using.

    and they can just as easily terminate your role as one of their affiliates, so be thankful that they have started of gently as opposed to using brute force
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    why is this thread still running?

    Oh..let's give this a twist then:

    YES!!!! KEEP the domains. I would also recommend getting some with "microsoft" in them, as well as a few "Apple" domains. Much luck. BUT PLEASE make this utterly pointless thread stop. The first post already answered your question. Its MORE than obvious. And you are still trying and trying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vagabond 007
    Oh. My. Gosh. This thread is still active. Amazing.

    As John McCabe mentioned, let him touch the stove. Perhaps Amazon will be nice and won't hold his hand there for too long.
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    • Profile picture of the author dorim
      Originally Posted by greenovni View Post

      Sell the site on Flippa!
      Selling the site on Flippa just passes the problem on to somebody else, do you think that's the right thing to do?
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  • Profile picture of the author kaido
    Tell amazon that your planning to make an porn site on that domain.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Exactly, why are you willing to risk everything for a $1000 website when you are likely to have made all your money back? Have you thought why the BIN was so low in the first place for a site making $300 a month? I can tell you why, the seller was completely aware of the domain issue and so were experienced buyers! If the domain issue was not there, he could easily have sold that site for at least $3000.

    Site for Sale: The Kindle Store: New Site Already Making $300 a Month -- Flippa

    If you really want to negotiate with Amazon, get a lawyer to do it. But you may find that the lawyer fees may well exceed the $1000 you paid for the site!
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Exactly, why are you willing to risk everything for a $1000 website when you are likely to have made all your money back? Have you thought why the BIN was so low in the first place for a site making $300 a month? I can tell you why, the seller was completely aware of the domain issue and so were experienced buyers! If the domain issue was not there, he could easily have sold that site for at least $3000.

      Site for Sale: The Kindle Store: New Site Already Making $300 a Month -- Flippa

      If you really want to negotiate with Amazon, get a lawyer to do it. But you may find that the lawyer fees may well exceed the $1000 you paid for the site!
      LAST time I priced a lawyer, about 10 years ago, the AVERAGE price was $250/hour!

      1. Discussion (MAY BE FREE, TO A POINT)
      2. Letter
      3. First response.

      Just THAT is likely to cost $500-$750! And you will really only be about where you are!

      FRANKLY, I DOUBT any US citizen will SERIOUSLY consider normal court for less than $5000. Plaintiffs for LESS generally get a class action(which you COULDN'T do here anyway), or small claims(of course YOU aren't the plaintiff so you can't do THIS either!)!

      SOME corporations, like amazon, almost make MONEY through contracts and suits and, as such, have lawyers ON RETAINER! SO, as I said, their only REAL cost is the MEAGER filing fee! Don't forget, they have BEEN sued by amazon books, and sued barnes and nobel. *I* think they should really have lost both cases(though amazon books DID push things), but they WON!!!!!! They are not new at this.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author tilanus
    Thank you Killercopy for this reaction.

    That's my idea as well. I make them good money. Why kill this site that's making them money?

    And again I want to stress that it was amazon in the first place who approved this website. They do this with all the sites who want to join the amazon associate program.

    With allowing amazon-kindle-store.net into their program after they had a chance to refuse me. They themselves gave me the impression that it was okay that I make money for them. And that'swhy I was surprised it took them 6 months and writiing out cheques before they realised I was violating their TOS.

    And again, there are a lot of websites out there with a registered trademark in them, owned by individuals. Just look at the number of sites with google in it.

    Matt Cutts said the other day that google bought all kind of doman names with google in it (like googlesex.com) and misspellings in it in order to prefend others using these doman names. Apparently they're not sure their laywers can do the work for them.

    But thank you all for the advise. I'm not planning to go to court for this, but I doubt because of the costst they really will take this that far.
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      TThat's my idea as well. I make them good money. Why kill this site that's making them money?
      A drop in the ocean. It's good money to you, pocket change to them.

      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      And again I want to stress that it was amazon in the first place who approved this website. They do this with all the sites who want to join the amazon associate program.

      With allowing amazon-kindle-store.net into their program after they had a chance to refuse me. They themselves gave me the impression that it was okay that I make money for them. And that'swhy I was surprised it took them 6 months and writiing out cheques before they realised I was violating their TOS.
      If you'd read the TOS fully, you'd have saved all the heartache - btw, even if it was an administrative error on their part, that probably won't hold up at all.

      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      And again, there are a lot of websites out there with a registered trademark in them, owned by individuals. Just look at the number of sites with google in it.
      Just because someone else is doing it, doesn't set a precedent for you - you've been advised strongly and seem to be ignoring the advice.

      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      Matt Cutts said the other day that google bought all kind of doman names with google in it (like googlesex.com) and misspellings in it in order to prefend others using these doman names. Apparently they're not sure their laywers can do the work for them.
      What Matt Cutts does is nothing to do with Amazon - Google makes its own commercial decisions - Amazon HAS made theirs.

      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      But thank you all for the advise. I'm not planning to go to court for this, but I doubt because of the costst they really will take this that far.
      The have an OBLIGATION to protect their trademark - if they don't, they could lose rights to it... don't DOUBT that they will spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect a trademark worth millions to them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Graudins
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      That's my idea as well. I make them good money. Why kill this site that's making them money?

      And again I want to stress that it was amazon in the first place who approved this website. They do this with all the sites who want to join the amazon associate program.

      With allowing amazon-kindle-store.net into their program after they had a chance to refuse me. They themselves gave me the impression that it was okay that I make money for them. And that'swhy I was surprised it took them 6 months and writiing out cheques before they realised I was violating their TOS.
      Geez, It's lucky that I put that disclaimer after my original post (the second post on this thread)

      I've now re-assessed my thoughts after all your convincing arguments.
      Don't worry about lawyers, Trademark Law, WIPO, or any of that yucky stuff.

      Once you contact Amazon about this matter and explain your situation, I'm sure that they'll reconsider.

      They'll encourage you to register lots more amazon and kindle related names. Hell, they'll probably even pay the domain registration and hosting for you!

      And if you play your cards right, they'll ask you to their Christmas party, and invite you to join the top Amazon executives around the campfire and sing a couple of rounds of Kumbaya.

      And after that they'll probably hold a special presentation while they applaud all the riches that have flowed to Amazon from your involvement with them.

      Yeah, just ignore all those negative people who have responded to you on this thread. They're probably all just jealous.

      Yours Incredulously,
      Eric G.

      (And I'm still not a lawyer, and you still should ignore everything I've said)
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      Thank you Killercopy for this reaction.

      That's my idea as well. I make them good money. Why kill this site that's making them money?
      You really aren't listening at all, are you? Do you actually think that a $300 month/sales site is a significant factor in defending a multi-million dollar trademark? They have an entire legal department and I guarantee that their job is not to sit around on their butts all day letting cybersquatters dilute their trademarks.

      I can't wait to see a future thread from you:

      Waaa Waaa Waaa! Amazon Stole My Commissions and My Domain!
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      but I doubt because of the costst they really will take this that far.
      While I haven't seem them file a lawsuit for this specific issue in recent years,
      look up the Amazon.gr dispute. It's got a weird twist, but that ought to show
      you they aren't above suing if they see fit.

      This is also probably a waste of time, but here are some things to look up:

      Confusing similarity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Trademark dilution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      It's also probably selfish on Amazon's part, but only they will decide how they
      will benefit from their trademark and their commercial success. While you are
      trying to get a slice of the pie, you're doing it without their consent.

      And nope, their approving you into their affiliate program or whatever and not
      having contacted you about that domain name soon after doesn't necessarily
      mean they agree to what you're doing. Otherwise you won't get that letter to
      begin with, and neither were they psychic enough to know what you were up
      to.

      BTW, Google has also filed both administrative and legal actions against some
      people for domain-trademark infringement. For lawsuits, look up that case of a
      Netherlands-based man who registered domains bearing their trademark.

      But....I suppose you've got nothing to worry about if you're in a country or so
      that's outside Amazon's tangible reach? If they don't do business where you're
      at, anyway.

      And next thing you know, sbucciarel's prediction will come true.

      Oh, and for some folks who posted (and might post) dictionary....generic....or
      common words can't become trademarks, there are lots and lots of everyday
      samples like Shell, Tide, and Head and Shoulders. Feel free to check with few
      intellectual lawyers on this, but the thing is to use those in their distinctive
      rather than descriptive or common usage.
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      • Profile picture of the author dadvocate
        Originally Posted by davezan View Post

        BTW, Google has also filed both administrative and legal actions against some
        people for domain-trademark infringement. For lawsuits, look up that case of a Netherlands-based man who registered domains bearing their trademark.
        Actually Google doesn't seem to have a problem with it. If you do a search in Google for the term "google sucks", you will find (even using google search) many different similar domains that exist. LOL even using google search the top 2 listings are googlesux [dot] com and googlesearchsucks [dot] com. Go figure.

        When I perform the same search in Yahoo (Canada), 9 out of the 10 listings on the first page contain those 2 words in the domain heh.

        Just sayin is all, just sayin.

        Now with Amazon I'm sure it's a completely different story. At the OP, dude you don't have a leg to stand on. Imo, any lawyer that would even defend you would have to be completely out of their mind and should possibly rethink their choice of career.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
          Originally Posted by dadvocate View Post

          Actually Google doesn't seem to have a problem with it. If you do a search in Google for the term "google sucks", you will find (even using google search) many different similar domains that exist. LOL even using google search the top 2 listings are googlesux [dot] com and googlesearchsucks [dot] com. Go figure.
          I beleive these domain names would fall under the jurisdiction of free speech and not trademark infringement as there is no mistaking these sites as being official Google owned websites so they are not miss-leading as to the content of the site let alone who owns it.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            OK, we might as well not do ANYTHING today! I guess there is NOTHING selling in the US! Can ANYONE here guess what the top electronic seller on Amazon is? Amazon says it is "54 days in the top 100"! Another hint? It has a big brother that is #15. #2 is IPHONE. OOOPS, I guess Apple is in trouble! Yeah, I KNOW that apple sells at a LOT of places, but STILL....

            I mean if the amazon kindle is selling SO poorly, and it IS the #1 electronic item on amazon, what about all the companies that have amazon as their selling portal?

            And YEAH, the amazon kindle TV ads are STUPID and STINK! But HEY, THEY haven't really been the selling point. I mean Amazon didn't really advertise for anything to speak of. By the time I heaard their first ad, I knew they existed, etc... HECK, I one day thought a program had a BUG because it listed some guy named "harry potter" like 8 times! WHO the heck is "HARRY POTTER"? NEVER HEARD OF HIM! It SURELY can't be selling THAT well on Amazon. Yep, obviously, the amazon top sellers list was telling the truth. NOW I know about harry potter. And AMAZON was the first place I heard about it.

            And Amazon Kindle IS one of the best advertised products. It is the only one that was really viable from day 1 for many. They only one that came close was SONY. The next real competitor debuts TODAY! I might just buy the nook.

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by dadvocate View Post

          Actually Google doesn't seem to have a problem with it. If you do a search in Google for the term "google sucks", you will find (even using google search) many different similar domains that exist. LOL even using google search the top 2 listings are googlesux [dot] com and googlesearchsucks [dot] com. Go figure.

          When I perform the same search in Yahoo (Canada), 9 out of the 10 listings on the first page contain those 2 words in the domain heh.

          Just sayin is all, just sayin.

          Now with Amazon I'm sure it's a completely different story. At the OP, dude you don't have a leg to stand on. Imo, any lawyer that would even defend you would have to be completely out of their mind and should possibly rethink their choice of career.
          A LOT of google names just forward to google, and are obviously used by google. I have seen some transition.

          As for URLS that have trademark names that aren't in the domain, at least THEY are below the domain names, not in the UDRP or TOS, etc...

          You guys seem to not even know the UDRP exists! If you have a domain name, you probably agreed to it. The basic punishment for not complying is forfeiture of the domain name. Since they control the people that control the direction to the companies they authorize that provide the infrastructure to the internet, at least in the US and various TLDs such as com, net, org, us, gov, and edu, their word DOES carry a bit of weight.

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by tilanus View Post

      That's my idea as well. I make them good money. Why kill this site that's making them money?
      No, your site has made them no money...you have COST them money.

      You see, there is only ONE place in the whole world that you can buy a brand new Amazon Kindle...that's at Amazon. An affiliate's job is to convince your traffic to buy their product over another or to buy from their site over another. Not to intercept the traffic that was ALREADY going to Amazon to buy the Kindle and then HAVE to pay you for that traffic.

      It is ridiculous to think that because someone was already going to Amazon to buy a Kindle and your site got in their way, that this is somehow making Amazon money. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    I've just found this great domain name...

    ebay-auction-site.com

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  • Profile picture of the author MaryT
    the guy who sold you the domain probably is accustomed to squatting brand

    it's a common practices by domain squatters to acqurie copyrighted domain name and sell them asap, as they know the dangers to lose them

    you just cope with that and rebuild a new site, i would suggest that you create a redirect of all your pages to the new store you create, and after you recovered as much and restarted, give them the domain and don't push it further with them; it's a losing battle

    best of luck
    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author John Delavera
    You should not have registered it anyway.

    As a rule nobody should register any domain name with a trademark in it.

    If you are unsure about something do not assume things.
    Do your research - see if a trademark exists and then decide what domain to register.

    Or ask a lawyer or a forum that hosts lawyers, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    lol, this thread is still going? and I'm LMFAO at the op still for his wishfull thinking, i cant believe the rationalizations hes trying to use to try to justify him being in violation of the law.

    As pointed out, what other people do does not give you the right to do so as well as they will eventually get caught as well.

    What is really funny is that you are actually serious about ignoring the letter of demand/cease and desist order because you naively think that they wont do anything despite the fact they spent the time and money to have a letter written and sent to you.

    I would assume that you realize that if you ignore the letter and continue violating the law not only will you face a massive fine but serious jail time.

    You know what guys, lets let him live in his little fantasy land where he can do no wrong, because it will be incredibly funny in a couple of months when he gets his ass handed to him by amazon because no doubt he will start a thread here crying about it and trying to rationalize why he has done nothing wrong, just like he has done in this thread.

    as for killercopy, and the comment about negative press, im not sure what kind of negative press your refering to. if in the unlikely event it made so much as 50th page news, remember that tillanus is in violation of the law, so he will be the one that faces any negative press that arrises for being stupid and ignoring the letter in the first place.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

      lol, this thread is still going? and I'm LMFAO at the op still for his wishfull thinking, i cant believe the rationalizations hes trying to use to try to justify him being in violation of the law.

      [snip]

      as for killercopy, and the comment about negative press, im not sure what kind of negative press your refering to. if in the unlikely event it made so much as 50th page news, remember that tillanus is in violation of the law, so he will be the one that faces any negative press that arrises for being stupid and ignoring the letter in the first place.
      Skyfox, it's actually pretty common for folks to make posts asking for advice and then cherry-pick the answers that fit what they want to do anyway. Although it's happened here before, most people don't make public posts admitting (multiple times) to actions that prove willful intent to break the law and negating any claims of ignorance.

      As for worrying about bad publicity, the general public seems to have the attention span of a flea. Especially if any hoopla doesn't involve some starlet getting out of a car without her underpants.

      Case in point: the whoop-de-do when recording companies sued Napster and a bunch of "innocent kids" that were using it to steal music via the peer-to-peer networks. Yes, a few people called them mean and the late-night jokers had some fun with them. On the other side of the coin, a lot of people quit using those networks to obtain "free" music, games, etc. ASCAP and their kin took the publicity hit for a few weeks to gain a long term benefit.

      I'm guessing Amazon would, too. Especially since guys like tilanus aren't all that innocent...
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      • Profile picture of the author tilanus
        Answering the question of Michael: yes, I'm pretty sure it's from amazon. This is the email adress which is send from: no-replyatamazon.com

        About the advise you all give me: thank you for that. What I really apreciate is comments made by people with experience. I think Killercopy knows more about this issue than let's say a guy who knows how to catch a fish. But thanks anyway for your thoughts about this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    OK...slow down everyone...Keep the domain name but forward it to another name while building the other domain name. Send amazon an email and apologize for not being properly informed and that you have taken the domain name down from your server. Do not offer to sell it back to them. Once it is not doing business, they cannot charge you with violating their TM. As long as it is not used in commerce, they cannot come after you. I've been through this several times before. Park the name and forward it to a new one and begin establishing the new one.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    on a side-note, i know its ultra difficult to have a domain with "xbox" in it, but i STILL own a domain with the name xbox360 in it

    Anyway, i highly, highly doubt that Amazon will "bow" and pay you "a little money" for this domain. I think amazon has better things to do than buying out MANY domains with trademark violations - this is what they have lawyers for.

    If they are in the right, why on earth would they need/want to pay you "a little money"?
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Here some additonal notes: (Please note i dont know a lot about those laws...)

    If they send you a simple CD letter like "we demand you take down this domain" you are actually in luck. As far as i understand such a CD letter is actually a courtesy.

    They *could* as well send their lawyers after you and claim they lost XYZ millions of dollars, you dont have the right to have a "amazon-kindle-store" and demand you pay them HUGE money for losses instead. With a simple CD letter you are off fine because all you need is put down the domain. (I did that once with a domain rolex-store.com where i got a letter from their lawyers in Switzerland

    Now...if you carry this out and go on, even demand money...it might get ugly for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    This guy is laughable. This thread is now my amusement thread for the day. To see someone cherry pick his responses to his question according to what he wants to hear ... a guy who fishes knows nothing ... Killer Joe knows all ... Cat Woman, who owns over 300 domains and has sold several for up to $900 and has read everything she can find on Trademark issues, knows nothing.

    I agree with Paul ... you deserve what's coming.
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  • Profile picture of the author Money on the Side
    I don't claim to know it all...that's for sure. I prefaced everything stating I'm a gambler...and what I would do (and what I have experienced in 14 years of Internet marketing). Is trademark infringement/dilution wrong? Absolutely...and I'd be the first to defend mine. And in no way am I saying to fight Amazon. My suggestion is to ignore them for now (until they get serious). Most likely, they will drop the issue. Yes, I do know a lot about lawsuits and the legal system and I can guarantee I've spent more time in court, dealing with a variety of legal issues, than pretty much anyone else on this forum (and no, I've never been sued nor have I ever been arrested).
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by killercopy View Post

      Most likely, they will drop the issue.
      And this studied opinion that a company as large as Amazon.com with a lot to lose if their trademark goes undefended, will simply drop it, comes based on what evidence? A gut feeling?
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    <shakes head, slowly walking away>

    Why start the thread, when you only wanted us to agree with you?

    The only interesting thing here is how many <stupid> people there are who don't care about anything but a quick buck.

    <sarcasm> If you think you have a cat's chance in winning this argument, why did you ask advice what to do in the first place?

    Another day for "brains" being sold cheaply and not been used before.

    <Thinking aloud> I wonder how many people working for Amazon are watching this thread, and taking note of the people giving bad advice?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini


    Despite how entertaining this thread is, it's really getting dangerous with the bad advice, and I'm not so sure that everyone understands that some of the more recent tongue-in-cheek advice is actually sarcastic.

    As much as I would hate to see this thread go, I think it's time it does go away, deleted or locked, before the people who think it's a good idea to take bad advice actually get in serious trouble.

    Or not... I don't care... some folks don't seem to be listening anyways... carry on...

    .jrd
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    Join The Future: Telekinetic Marketing

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    • Profile picture of the author Tam Chancellor
      I am really amazed and shocked to see this thread is still active.
      Unbelievable! Kindle is one of the hottest products this Christmas.
      If you truly believe Amazon is going to let this slide....more power
      you.

      Now...the real reason I posted in this thread....I miss Captain Sisko
      Need to dig out my DS9 DVDs.

      Tam

      Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini View Post



      Despite how entertaining this thread is, it's really getting dangerous with the bad advice, and I'm not so sure that everyone understands that some of the more recent tongue-in-cheek advice is actually sarcastic.

      As much as I would hate to see this thread go, I think it's time it does go away, deleted or locked, before the people who think it's a good idea to take bad advice actually get in serious trouble.

      Or not... I don't care... some folks don't seem to be listening anyways... carry on...
      Signature

      "Talking ain't doing." --Zoe Washburne

      "What you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  • Profile picture of the author CodrutTurcanu
    I think they might be quite serious about this; and they could close your aff. account since you're violating their terms...
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Lazenby
    What would happen if you had a generic Domain name but the actual file name of the page had a trademarked term in it...for instance...

    www.mybooksite.com/amazon-kindle
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    YES IT IS STILL POSSIBLE
    !
    Not Only That, It's Perfectly Legal & Whitehat!
    CLICK HERE
    FOR DETAILS
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by chameleon View Post

      What would happen if you had a generic Domain name but the actual file name of the page had a trademarked term in it...for instance...

      www.mybooksite.com/amazon-kindle
      This is taken directly from the Amazon Operating Agreement:

      • include any trademark of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates, or any variation or misspelling of any trademark of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates, in any domain name -- for example, a domain name such as "amazon.mydomain.com", "amaozn.com", "amazonauctions.net", "facebook.com/amazondealsgroup," "endlessboots.com," "endless.mydomain.com", "endlss.com," "kindlemagazines.mydomain.info," or "kindlewirelessreader.co.uk" would be unsuitable
      • include any trademark of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates in any username, group name, or other identifier on any social networking website - for example, a username such as "Endless Shoes," or "Amazon Japan", or "Kindle For You" registered on a social networking site such as Twitter or Facebook would be unsuitable;

      Looks like you would be OK since that is not part of the domain name itself or a user name at a social networking site, but it would be best to ask Amazon directly.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      What would happen if you had a generic Domain name but the actual file name of the page had a trademarked term in it...for instance...

      www.mybooksite.com/amazon-kindle
      Very different issue. A domain name or user ID suggests an ownership or representation status. Clearly not something they can allow. The product name on a page at a domain that's clearly not representing itself as part of Amazon, a review page, for example, would be exempt in most cases.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dixiebelle
    Sorry you are having this problem. What a bummer.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about legal action. Amazon isn't going to sue you. They don't have to. All they have to do is contact your domain registrar, your hosting company, and delete you from the Associates Program, and you are out of business...and you will probably never get back in. This is not good if you are making any money with them.

    This is what I would do.

    1. Don't write or email them. Get someone on the phone. There is a toll number for the Associates Dept. You'll have to go online and find it since I don't have it handy at the moment. They are very easy to deal with.

    2. Give them the previous owner's name, and ask if they sent the same request to that person. If so, I would demand at least half of the money I paid for the site from that previous owner. You may even have legal recourse. If you are getting good results, Amazon probably realizes how valuable the name is, and wants it for their own use.

    3. Explain to Amazon that you purchased the site with that domain name attached, with Amazon ads on it, so you thought that it was approved. Tell them that the holiday season is coming up and you would like to have permission to leave the site running while you get a new site indexed through Google with a new name. Otherwise, you will loose your holiday earnings.

    4. Or you can tell them that you realize that the name is obviously valuable, but you are willing to give it up free of charge, if they will just let you use it for a couple more months. Don't forget to say please and thank you a lot. Dripping a little "honey" never hurts.

    5. Then I would get on the phone with the previous owner, and not be quite so nice.

    It never hurts to try negociating. You might be surprised at the results.

    Dixie
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    Done to death, but you can't fight the Amazon coffers.

    They have a duty to protect their trademark, or they'd stand to lose it.

    However, I'm WITH you...you're trying to SELL the bloody things for them.

    And, despite the HOO-HAH, I don't see the Kindle as being anything other than a very minor niche product.

    So, it has e-ink. So what?

    So have several other eBook readers which have failed to set the world alight...

    (I say this as a MASSIVE e-reader fanboy...)...I just can't see the mass market picking up on it.

    Steve
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    Not promoting right now

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Steve,
      So, it has e-ink. So what?

      So have several other eBook readers which have failed to set the world alight...
      How many of them are spending the money Amazon is for TV advertising? Crappy ads, mind you, but still, they're running regularly.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author anuj291
    I am not sure about the answer
    but i have had similar problems.. a few years back i had a domain with olympics in it and ppl warned me about the trademark issue -- i just let it expire in a years time..
    dint do anything
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  • Profile picture of the author webmasterguru
    negociate with them. maybe they will give you something, not really money .
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian Fox
    my domain name ( amazon-kindle-store.net) i stopped reading there....if you're lucky you only have ONE trademark in there, but i think its actually two. No chance in hell.
    Same here...

    Your domain..... No that is Amazons domain sorry not a snowballs chance in Hell are you going to keep that.
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Hehe, just an update that the domain name mentioned here has been given to
      Amazon. Do a WHOIS lookup and see.
      Signature

      David

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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by davezan View Post

        Hehe, just an update that the domain name mentioned here has been given to
        Amazon. Do a WHOIS lookup and see.
        lol. Who didn't know that was going to happen. There's a rather unattractive Godaddy parked page there now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Elle Holder
        Originally Posted by davezan View Post

        Hehe, just an update that the domain name mentioned here has been given to
        Amazon. Do a WHOIS lookup and see.
        Hah! Thanks for letting us know.

        And the OP was so very adamant that s/he was in the right and could hold on to the name. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author newbim
    lol - edited!

    Good luck with that.

    Newbim.
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    If what I said helps, let me know, throw me a 'thanks'.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lady
    The amount of time it took them to discover the infringement is not relevant, but the fact that you are using a trademarked name is. You may ask for more than the ten bucks they are offering you for time and expense, however the reality is (you may not want to hear it) you used what belong to them in order to make money, and they really owe you nothing. In whatever manner you decide to respond; please do not use the site again, it could get UGLY.
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    Best Wishes Lee

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