Amazon wants my domain name. Can I defy them?

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#main internet marketing discussion forum #amazon #defy #domain
  • How deep are your pockets?
    Because on the face of it, I reckon that this is a pretty clear case of trademark infringement, and you'd be wasting your money trying to defend this.
    And the fact that it's taken their legal department 6 months to contact you is irrelevant.
    And don't expect the friendly manner to continue if you refuse.

    (Note: The above is not legal advice in any way, shape, or form. I am not a lawyer, the above is probably dead wrong, and probably should be totally ignored. )

    Cheers,
    Eric G.
  • If you set up or buy a site with a trade marked domain then you take the risk that one day your successful may be no more. I have had domain names deleted without any notice because of complaints by major companies.

    As above fight it if you want but you may need some major legal fees. Best of to let it go and take it as lesson learned.

    Dave d
  • As the both above posters have said, you might aswell give amazon there domain, they'l only take you to court and you will end up paying the court cost's, better to drop it and move on rather then take on a mutlimillion pound company.
  • Here's how I understand it, and I'm not a lawyer by any means.

    Amazon trademarked a term (the kindle, or amazon kindle I would imagine) that you've got in your domain name, so you've violated their trademark rights. If they do nothing to defend their exclusive use of that trademark, the trademark is 'smoke' and anyone can have rights to the name amazon kindle....like you...or Sony.

    So, rather than waste all the effort of trademarking a name & letting just anyone go use it, they've (rather politely amazingly enough) asked you to stop using it in order to protect their trademark.

    You could comply and ask them to give you your $10, so you could buy another domain to move to...which would suck. Or you could not comply and see how long you can last while Amazon turns up the heat & reaches for the lawyers...which would suck much worse.

    Just my thoughts...
    Todd
    • [1] reply
  • Frankly, zip. The others already explained why.

    Up to you what to do. And good luck if you wish to defy Amazon.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Coincidentally, I was talking to an internet lawyer last night and I asked him the very same question.

      My understanding of what he said is that I should forget any thoughts of registering any URL's containing any brand names as it's clear infringement and - at best - I'll lose the site whenever the owner decides to catch up with me.

      Not too clear on misspellings, or what happens when the brand name also functions legitimately as a stand alone English word. Such as, in your case, an URL like www.kindleyourinterestinbooks.com

      Whatever happens, you'll need unbelievably deep pockets if you decide to make a stand.

      Thad
  • This isn't a battle I think you should fight.

    1) Register a new domain that doesn't have a trade mark in it.

    2) Put "amazon kindle" in the URL through either the WP permalink structure, or html/php filename.

    3) SEO again from scratch.

    Not the best outcome, but hey, at least you've found a buying niche and have content to sell them with even if you have to redo it.

    Gavin
  • And say you'll transfer immediately if they agree
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • Warning, Will Robinson!

    If you ask for more than the cost of registration, you run the risk of falling afoul of the laws regarding domain name squatting. Do NOT do this!

    I would ask them if it's okay to continue to use the domain name if you include a conspicuous disclaimer that "Amazon Kindle" is a trademark of Amazon, LLC (or whatever the appropriate terminology is), in order to ensure their trademark is protected.

    They MUST act to protect their trademark, or they lose it. There's a very small chance they'll go for that offer.

    If not, just give it to them. Don't even ask for the registration fee. If they want the domain name, they're going to get it. Being stubborn over it is just being stupid. It's begging for expensive legal hassles that you clearly don't want, can't win, and won't profit from.

    Playing with other people's trademarks is a dangerous game. You played, now you're getting into the consequences.


    Paul
    • [ 5 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
  • 1. Reply them with an email thanking for taking so long to take action. (6 months of income)
    2. Thank them for being so polite with their request.
    3. Remove content and transfer the domain to them.
    4. Find another product, repeat process.

    Your chances to win with Amazon? none.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Regarding holding affiliate commissions, here's a story of what happened to a friend of mine a couple of years back.

    He had a domain that "sounded" (when spoken) like a mobile phone service providers name. He was redirecting the traffic via affiliate links to their site. When they discovered his domain name, they sent him similar requests AND held back his commissions. He did eventually win the case, as it wasn't strictly trademakr infringement, and they relented, but the whole thing took about 6 months, and he earned nothing during the process.

    Now he's back on track and earning nicely from it.

    HOWEVER, I don't think you'll win this case. You've definitely infringed on their copyright, and would be well within their rights to cancel your affiliate agreement if they so wished.

    As others have advised, get a new domain name, transfer your content and use SEO to gain back the traffic and income.
  • Ask if you can get some free stuff if you do give it up.
  • I guess I'm confused about what a trademark is.
    Does this mean that (if I had the money) I could build a car and call it coke-cola and call it the real car!
    I'm kidding about that (a little) but I do remember when auto zone started out they were known as auto shack and I seem to remember they had to change it.
    I noticed they had amazon vine listed but amazon tribe.
    Too much time on my hands I think.
    But thanks Paul.
    -Lyn
    • [2] replies
    • Lyn,

      Coca-Cola is an invented word, so that would be much less clear-cut. You could probably name a car "Kindle," though. As long as it didn't include an ebook reader...

      'Denali' is interesting because of its origin. It's an Athabascan (early native-American language group) word for 'pinnacle' or 'highest.' Sort of like 'Acme,' but with more class.

      I wonder if the root is related to the Navajo name for themselves... Dineh. The People.


      Paul
    • Technically, it IS illegal to copyright, patent, or trademark, simple terms, etc... ALAS, too many succeed in doing that. One click ordering and amazon for amazon.com are two such cases. In the past, companies even mispelled names to get a trademark.

      HECK, INTEL GAVE rights to other companies for the 286 and ANY resulting technology. It was a LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT! Well, once Intel was out of the hole, and made money on OTHER companies work(THEY got most of the profit will little added cost), they created a SMEAR campaign to destroy the 80286! The 80386 was not REALLY that different, and the other companies started making that 80286 work like a 386, 486, and the new 586! Well, INTEL took them to court, and EVEN tried copywriting the number! LUCKILY, the judge had a couple braincells and said YOU CAN'T COPYRIGHT A NUMBER! And the pentium was born. pent for 5, so that was obviously the fabled 586.

      They used numbers for circuits before I was even born. That was BEFORE intel! So Intel never even came up with the concept. And it was certainly NOT the first time that a company came out with a similar chip with the same numbers.

      STILL, if you use a WEAK trademark to compete or advertise, you might as well be screaming TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT! Using two weak, but otherwise unrelated, trademarks is the same way.

      Steve
  • It looks like the only problem they have is using their trademarked name in your domain. Of course your content says amazon kindle all over it but they don't care about that just the domain.

    So simply replace the keywords Amazon and Kindle in your domain with something similiar and you are set. For example I had a few sites with ebay in the domain and ebay contacted me and wanted me to let the domains expire. So I got new ones and simply replaced the word EBAY with AUCTION and I was back in business.

    So instead of "Amazon Kindle" you can use a keyword like "Wireless Reading Device" or something similiar in your domain.

    Mike
  • As others have said, get over it and drop the domain. There's no doubt that people looking for a kindle are looking for the Amazon Kindle and not for your site. On top of that, Amazon would rather not pay commissions if people came via your website.
  • i stopped reading there....if you're lucky you only have ONE trademark in there, but i think its actually two. No chance in hell.
  • There's nothing you can do - either let them buy the domain from you and transfer your info to another site, or lose your site and probably affiliate account.

    Some battles are too big to be fought.
  • If Amazon wants that name, they can probably get it just by dragging you through the legal coals. Most legal experts would recommend Trademarking the domain name. Did you do that?
    • [1] reply
    • No you cannot defy them. You might have had chance with just "kindle" in there and a fat lawyaers wallet, but amazon-kindle clearly defines it as their kindle.
      Don´'t waste energy on this. Give it to them. Learn from it. Move on.
  • That letter is the most polite that I have ever seen concerning this type of cases. They could have sued you immediately without any warning. If you ask for more money, they may accuse you of cybersquatting.

    There are situations where you can use a domain with a trademark legally, but it must not involve any profit at all. You clearly do not have any case here. If you persist, you may end up digging a much bigger hole yourself and sued for heavy damages.

    Derek
  • My husband is a former attorney - you need to just chalk this one up and give it to Amazon...

    ETA: You actually have two trademark violations in the domain...Amazon and Kindle. They're not going to PAY you for a domain that technically they already OWN.
  • Amazon - Greek Mythology. A member of a nation of women warriors reputed to have lived in Scythia.

    Kindle - To build or fuel (a fire).

    Switch the site to have something to have a story about women warriors building a fire or something...or just do a 301 redirect.

    Tell them that you removed the copyrighted content and that the page was converted to something else.

    Oh, but if you get sued it's not my fault :S
    • [1] reply
    • If you had deep enough pockets, you might be able to convince the right judge that your use of Amazon's trademarks falls under Fair Use. I trust that the site markets the Kindle and products for it exclusively, right?

      But this is a case where, even if you did win on that basis, you lose on violating the spirit of the TOS for the affiliate program.

      Caught between those two pincers, the wise move is to accept their offer as made, quickly and politely. The only negotiation I personally would even try would be to buy some time so I could benefit both parties through the Christmas shopping season.

      One more thought - when they offered the original cost to you, you could ask them if that means the amount you paid for the domain, or what the original registration fee was. Whatever their answer, say "OK" and move on.
  • I'm not an attorney...but an avid gambler, so my advise is this:

    If you are making money, ignore them until they get (really) serious. It will cost them a lot of money to sue you. If/when it comes to that point, give it up. There are a lot of companies that send these letters out to defend their trademarks, but rarely do they get serious and launch a suit against you.

    I've been involved with Internet marketing since 1995 and threatened with lawsuits (including trademark infringement by ebay, amazon, numerous sports franchises, etc) more times than my calculator has digits for...and I still haven't been to court on a single one.
  • Also let this be a lesson not to buy trademarked name domains form other people. I bet the seller of that domain got the same notice and just decided to sell it to someone else so he didn't have to lose his time or investment. Obviously he didn't disclose that in his sales pitch.
  • tilanus,

    Do you have *******PROOF******* they "LET YOU"?!?!? That would require some PERSON to email you or write to you from Amazon saying that they LET you! If they didn't NOTICE your name, that is NOT acceptance!

    As for your chances to win? You even DARE ask!?!?!? Let's see...

    1. Use of trademarks. Neither alone is really a valid trademark and MAYBE you could get away with it, but TOGETHER!?!?!? NO WAY!
    2. Use IN CONTEXT, and even ONE trademark would make me say NO WAY!
    3. It goes to THEIR site, so forget that!

    I am not a lawyer, but I think any lawyer would say you would have NO chance of winning!

    BTW killercopy is wrong! You know what it might cost them to sue you? About $50! Do you REALLY think they don't have an attorney on retainer?!?!?!?

    BTW that first letter may be counted as notice, and I think they might give like 3 before REALLY escalating it. Of course, if they sent a letter to the previous owner, THIS might be #2, or even #3!

    And WHY would they block the checks? I'm sure they will just SHUT DOWN YOUR ACCOUNT, and there will be no checks to block. That IS in their TOS, and is their right anyway!

    Steve
    • [1] reply
    • So, based on your logic, Amazon is trying to save $40 in legal fees by offering him ten bucks for his domain name?

      If you think it costs $50 to sue someone, it is you that is wrong. Regardless of whether or not you have an attorney on retainer, cost plays a significant factor. The company I work for has at least a dozen lawyers and believe me, law suits are a big deal, no matter what the issue is...and I'm sure Amazon's attorneys are very busy and have bigger fish to dry than amazon-kindle-store.net.

      The fact is, there is a good portion of Amazon's business that comes from affiliates. Believe me, they do not want the bad press from the Internet giant stomping on the people that are making them money. Not, that a lawsuit can't happen--it certainly could, but most likely they will move on.
      • [2] replies
  • Can you defy them? Sure you can but just how much money do you have to spent fighting their corporate lawyers?

    You domain name has Both Amazon and Kindle which I am sure are trademarks of the company and the fact you are in affiliate it shows that the site is clearly related to Amazon and Kindle so you will lose big time.

    I would chalk this up to experience.

    Granted the advice is not from an actual attorney. :-)
  • I think the right thing to do is get another domain name that does not infringe on somebody's trade name/copyright. That is the nicest cease and desist letter I've ever seen by the way. Don't waste your time, money and energy fighting a case you will not win.
  • I'd write them a nice letter thanking them for their suggestion and approach. Say it is not needed to pay anything for the domain. You will find a suitable domain replacement and transfer the content there as suggested. Transfer of the domain will be complete by Jan 3rd 2010.

    Since they didn't specify a deadline of when it had to be handed over suggest one. If they tell you to hand it over right away then do it, but try to keep it past the boxing day shopping season.

    Aaron
  • I've seen similar situations where the domain owner was able to work out a deal where the ownership of the domain would transfer but they would still allow the person full use of the domain to promote their products.

    Never hurts to ask.
  • I agree with Alexa, try to negotiate to give yourself time. I am not a lawyer so don't take this as legal advice. This is what I would do.

    I would start building a new site and getting that one built up and SEO done on it. I would also do a 301 permanant on the domain you already have that got you in this trouble to try and keep that traffic.

    If you can stall Amazon past the Christmas season, then the big money you are hopeful for should be safe. Once you have Christmas over, then I would be prepared to just let that domain die. I would not give it to Amazon due to the 301 issue. Unless you really need that $10.

    You can't win this one, so the biggest part of this is to stall and delay. But get working on a new domain and move all the files to that domain and get the traffic moving in that direction. Good luck.
  • They already have a barrel waiting for you. Dont make them do it as it will hurt.

    Give them the domain and move on.

    Ta

    Baz
    • [1] reply
    • Negotiate with them. Try to find a win/win solution. They're probably just protecting their trademark. Ask them if there's any resolution that doesn't involve you giving them the domain. See if there's something besides the domain you can offer them.
  • Do you really want to wage a legal battle with one of the most powerful forces on the Internet? And just for the sake a a bit of affiliate commission?

    Amazon doesn't fool around, when the new rules regarding taxing affiliates came into effect in several states they immediately dropped their affiliates to avoid any problems - I was one of them as I live in Hawaii. The affiliate sales they lost didn't mean anything to them, it's peanuts to a giant like Amazon. Your affiliate income is equally unimportant to them.

    My advice (which like all of the other advice you have received here is an opinion, not legal council) is to get a new domain name that doesn't infringe upon their trademark and switch your site.

    Bill
  • Thank you very much for your kind(dle) advice,

    I was wondering if amazon had a case against me simply because the email did'n't demand anything from me. Perhaps they try to save money on a laywer or perhaps their action is not that strong.

    The person just requested me to hand over the domain name and he also did not name a date before which I had to reply. Also, as I could feel from his writing he's is not a laywer. He's much too nice for a laywer.

    Citation from his email: "We request that you choose a new domain name and transfer your content to that name. Amazon will purchase your domain amazon-kindle-store.net for the initial registration price, provided that you agree to not register any domains containing Amazon brands, or a misspelling, in the future."

    Wow, great offer. 10 dollars for a site worth thousands of dollars.

    His email ends with: "We look forward to hearing from you.

    Best regards,

    + name + - Associates Account Specialist"

    I think I send him a Christmas card no serious, I think i use the advise not to react and just wait what their next step is. Perhaps they forget just like they forgot that I was their associate for more than 6 months.
    • [3] replies
    • Just make sure you're dealing with a real guy from amazon, not someone else social engineering to buy your domain.
    • Banned
      [DELETED]
    • Normally, I am not an "I told you so" kind of guy. But, I did warn you about this domain on your "$6000..." thread, but you were confident Amazon had grandfathered you in.

      The only reason this domain is valuable to you is because Amazon is paying you a commission when someone buys a Kindle through your site. You can wait to take action all you want, but their fastest recourse is to terminate your affiliate agreement, which then makes your domain worthless whether you decide to give it up or fight for it. Furthermore, since you are in violation of their affiliate agreement, they can refuse to pay you any commissions earned that they have yet to pay. So, any commissions you've earned from October forward may not be paid to you if they decide to take this action before late December (another month from now).

      Waiting seems like a bad idea to me considering you have stated that you are making good money with this site and probably have some commissions built up that you do not want to lose.

      Amazon is being kind to you right now, but their patience may not last another month.
    • We know they have exclusive rights to their brand names, so that is not even an issue for consideration, so I guess the only question left for you to decide is whether you would like to keep your affiliate status with them.
      • [1] reply
  • Same thing happened to me a couple of years ago with Amazon. Just give it up and they will not pursue. Do not try anything funny with trademark infringement. That is the only thing you can do. You cannot have the name you must give it up and chalk it up to experience, I did.
  • You cannot win here and it is NOT worth it. It IS their name and that is the bottom line. I unknowingly did the same thing promoting a diet product using the trademark name for my domain. When they emailed me requesting I push the domain to them, I was hesitant at first. Once I realized it was a clear infringement, I let it go. They were quite nice about it and even sent me a case of the product.

    I really think you should give it up while it is still a pleasant request for their copyright name. It is not worth getting into some legal battle over it.

    Bj
    • [3] replies
    • To protect my interests and linking to the site that amazon wants...I would:

      1. Buy a new domain name.
      2. transfer all the content to the new domain...graphics and all.
      3. Set a redirect from the dns level from the old domain to point to the new domain.
      4. continue link building on the new domain.
      5. repurpose all promotional content to new domain.
      6. track incoming traffic from old domain.

      Once the traffic from the old domain dwindled down to nothing...sell the old domain name to amazon.

      And of course, keep a record of all communications from amazon.
      • [1] reply
    • If I were in your position I would first of all email them with that mail you received to make sure it was actually them and not some smart pants trying to swindle you.

      I would thank them for making you aware of this problem (explaining you bought the domain from someone else wrongly assuming it was in the clear due to the length of time gone since you bought it.

      I would then explain that I use it to promote them and agree that if it violates their Tos/T&C and/or federal laws you have no interest in keeping it and threatening your business partnership with them.

      I would then ask if it would be possible to keep it redirected to the new domain name you will get for that website, so as to help BOTH capitalise on the traffic already there.

      If they agree, you are good. Get a new domain and sort out the redirect with them. If they don´t agree, just offer it to them for free on the basis that you prefer to keep the relationship that is making you BOTH money.

      Being honest and trying to negotiate an advantageous arrangement for both parts will most likely ensure you end up on good terms with them whatever the outcome, and if you get your new domain like NOW and redirect straight away while you keep this email exchange with them you buy yourself some time in case they refuse, time you can use to SEO and promote the new omain like mad for the run up to christmas.

      Just my 0.02
    • [DELETED]
      • [2] replies
    • Game - Set - Match

      Don't even bother trying to fight this one.

      One of these days, marketers are going to understand that they cannot
      use trademarked names for their domain and get away with it forever,
      especially not if the trademark just happens to be owned by a heavyweight.

      Chalk it up as income you should have never had in the first place, be glad
      you got it, and move on.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Best thing to do is talk to them, in the mean time, grab a new domain, put an instant re direct from your main start and start pumping traffic to the new one.
  • I believe that the worst thing you can do is ignore them. I think you are missing or glossing over the main point that folks are trying to tell you here. Amazon has a very strong case, you are absolutely infringing on their trade mark rights, in no uncertain terms. I am not sure, but I think this may even cross the line in regards to domain registration law goes. Again, I am not a lawyer, but from what I have read there are laws against domain squatting or something and this may be along those lines, so be very careful.

    As long as you respond to them, and try to come to some amicable solution, you should be ok. The reason that you got a nice email from them, and you believe it to be from a non lawyer is because they don't need to threaten you, yet. You don't have a leg to stand on, and they know it. They have done this more times than you can count, and most folks understand the problems they would face if they don't comply. How much money do you want to squander to defend this domain? It will cost you way more than you have made, if a lawyer will even bother to defend you.

    Try to negotiate to buy yourself some time, so you can get another site built with the same content but a different domain. Start promoting the new site and do the 301 to the new site so you can keep the SEo work already done. Chalk this up to experience and work to make the new domain as successful as the old one and go about your business.

    This is lay opinion and not legal advice. Please seek competent legal council if you need it.
  • The biggest problem is the "amazon" in the name, I think. I do know of cases where offline companies have settled with domain squatters and paid money for the domain rather than paying more money to prosecute. However, as Amazon is a huge online retailer, they are hip to these kinds of things and have zero tolerance. You may try asking for more money than $10 but like someone said, it could fall afoul of laws. However, you can write a polite email asking if they will pay more than the domain cost to register, and what that would be, but again that might be a risk. The easiest thing would be to ask them for $10 for the domain, but what's $10, really?

    Best bet, ask how to proceed from here if they were not clear in their initial email. But no, you cannot fight them on this. They are on very steady ground and as they are a huge online retailer, this is probably the number one thing they use their lawyers for, and have likely done this thousands or tens of thousands of times.
  • From a different standpoint, I had a jerk copy my website pages and try and pass themself off as "my own company", using "my company name", so I contacted my lawyer. He advised that I trademark my company name, and rightly so. If you go to court, you'd better be the one holding the trademark if you're going to shut down copycats.

    It's one thing if you have a Kindle Reader and a Kindle Lampshade store, but when you have two "similar" items, it can lead to deceptive advertising, and that is why we protect our company and trademark our names.

    We all love to have affiliates, Amazon included, and that's why they are being nice, but the thing is, you CANNOT represent yourself as "that company", and even if you're not, and only using the domain name for SEO purposes, as I'm sure Amazon can see, it can still potentially infringe upon their reputation, and for that matter, it is quickly, and hopefully, politely squashed.

    I too have used names that are trademarked in my URLs when affiliate marketing, and at first I didn't realize I had done anything wrong, I just thought it would help with SEO rankings, but some companies will not approve and some don't care, You have to read the Terms of Service agreement, and some of the companies I contacted later said it was okay, but with Amazon, you are playing with big fish, and if they ask you to stop using it, just do it.

    You don't have to lose all your content, you just have to pump up the marketing again with a new name, and you will have peace of mind that you are doing the right thing. Be thankful for what you already made, although I know it must hurt, but you have to do what is right.

    At least you didn't go through what I went through last week... after 4 years of heavy marketing on a high paying product, with tons of material out there, the company decided to yank the affiliate program the next day! That was it. Not even a we're sorry to do this to ya! At least I had a redirect on 60% of my marketing, so I just masked and forwarded to a different URL, but I still have to rebuild the links on the site. **** happens.

    Good luck to you!
    • [1] reply
    • I'd ignore them. There is no trademark infringement unless there is consumer confusion about who is responsible for the website, which is very doubtful here.

      Amazon. Look, I just used a trademark. No liability.
      • [1] reply
  • sorry to hear about that, that sucks

    maybe you can still get a couple more weeks out of it before christmas.

    I hope you've made more with the site then what you paid for it.
  • If they decide to sue you than you lose money trying to defend. On the other thand they will give you ten dollars. BTW, they will send you a formal letter from an attorney with intent to sue if you don't sell it to them.

    You violated the affiliate agreement by using their trademark(s). They don't have to pay you anything if you are in violation.

    I suggest you sell it for the $10 and move your content to a new site. Start over and move on.
  • My OPINION on the matter goes something like this:

    It's going to take Amazon time and money to take this domain from you, either legally or through the domain registrar. They're going to get their staff attorneys involved when they could be doing something different.

    You WILL lose the domain one way or another as it is infringing on their right to a trade name. Also, it's not even their option to let you keep it because that opens the door for others (also a violation of their trademark, you must defend your trademark else it becomes unvalid).


    So, write them back and politely explain that you have a significant investment of time and energy into marketing this domain name and selling their products through it. Explain that you would be willing to transfer the domain name for say $500 (which is less than they'd have to pay in attorney's time, but don't tell them that is your reasoning).

    They may just write you back and be more aggressive, OR they might agree, just to get it over and done with and then you've managed to flip the domain, keep the rights to the content, and the only thing you will have "lost" is any kind of backlinking you've done.

    You can't win if you don't play, but the bottom line is that they will take the domain name either way.. so you can try and salvage something with them and negotiate the higher price, or you can just tuck your tail and hand it over for $10 bucks.


    The preceding was an opinion and shall not be construed as legal advice. As always, your mileage may vary.
  • BTW, worst case scenario they say absolutely not to the $500 and you sell it to them for the $10 bucks.

    Best case, you get the $500 bucks.... or whatever you deem appropriate to ask for.
    • [4] replies
    • That is NOT the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario involves him getting nailed for cybersquatting, along with trademark infringement, and losing a ton of money. Then all the potential problems that can follow such an outcome.

      This isn't about proving he's bigger and badder than Amazon. It's about dealing with the consequences of a mistake. Specifically, the mistake of knowingly using someone else's trademark without their prior permission.


      Paul
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
    • Seems to me I read that a trademark or servicemark holder could successfully sue for 100k when infringement is substantiated AND that they can do so without having to send out a cease and desist (C&D) letter. You've already received one C&D. Be careful.

      PS --- I am not an attorney --- opinions are pesonal.

      Good luck.
    • NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!! HERE is something CLOSER to the worst case!

      1. SHUT DOWN YOUR AFFILIATE ACCOUNT ****RETROACTIVELY**** to the last pay check. If they "owe" you $100,000, just kiss it GOOD BYE!

      2. SHUT DOWN your domain name, for violation of the UDRP and trademark infringment, and assking for $500 just strengthens their case.

      3. SHUT DOWN you domain, for violation of trademark infringment.

      4. Haul you into court.

      BTW amazon can't really afford $500, as it would bankrupt them! HOW? Well, and keep in mind this is just PART of SOME TLDs on ONE keyword!

      1 amazon.aero
      2 amazon.asia
      3 amazon.biz
      4 amazon.cat
      5 amazon.com
      6 amazon.coop
      7 amazon.edu
      8 amazon.gov
      9 amazon.info
      10 amazon.int
      11 amazon.jobs
      12 amazon.mil
      13 amazon.mobi
      14 amazon.muse
      15 amazon.name
      16 amazon.net
      17 amazon.org
      18 amazon.pro
      19 amazon.tel
      20 amazon.trav
      21 amazon.ac
      22 amazon.ad
      23 amazon.ae
      24 amazon.af
      25 amazon.ag
      26 amazon.ai
      27 amazon.al
      28 amazon.am
      29 amazon.an
      30 amazon.ao
      31 amazon.aq
      32 amazon.ar
      33 amazon.as
      34 amazon.at
      35 amazon.au
      36 amazon.aw
      37 amazon.ax
      38 amazon.az
      39 amazon.ba
      40 amazon.bb
      41 amazon.bd
      42 amazon.be
      43 amazon.bf
      44 amazon.bg
      45 amazon.bh
      46 amazon.bi
      47 amazon.bj
      48 amazon.bm
      49 amazon.bn
      50 amazon.bo
      51 amazon.br
      52 amazon.bs
      53 amazon.bt
      54 amazon.bv
      55 amazon.bw
      56 amazon.by
      57 amazon.bz
      58 amazon.ca
      59 amazon.cc
      60 amazon.cd
      61 amazon.cf
      62 amazon.cg
      63 amazon.ch
      64 amazon.ci
      65 amazon.ck
      66 amazon.cl
      67 amazon.cm
      68 amazon.cn
      69 amazon.co
      70 amazon.cr
      71 amazon.cu
      72 amazon.cv
      73 amazon.cx
      74 amazon.cy
      75 amazon.cz
      76 amazon.de
      77 amazon.dj
      78 amazon.dk
      79 amazon.dm
      80 amazon.do
      81 amazon.dz
      82 amazon.ec
      83 amazon.ee
      84 amazon.eg
      85 amazon.er
      86 amazon.es
      87 amazon.et
      88 amazon.eu
      89 amazon.fi
      90 amazon.fj
      91 amazon.fk
      92 amazon.fm
      93 amazon.fo
      94 amazon.fr
      95 amazon.ga
      96 amazon.gb
      97 amazon.gd
      98 amazon.ge
      99 amazon.gf
      100 amazon.gg
      101 amazon.gh
      102 amazon.gi
      103 amazon.gl
      104 amazon.gm
      105 amazon.gn
      106 amazon.gp
      107 amazon.gq
      108 amazon.gr
      109 amazon.gs
      110 amazon.gt
      111 amazon.gu
      112 amazon.gw
      113 amazon.gy
      114 amazon.hk
      115 amazon.hm
      116 amazon.hn
      117 amazon.hr
      118 amazon.ht
      119 amazon.hu
      120 amazon.id
      121 amazon.ie
      122 amazon.il
      123 amazon.im
      124 amazon.in
      125 amazon.io
      126 amazon.iq
      127 amazon.ir
      128 amazon.is
      129 amazon.it
      130 amazon.je
      131 amazon.jm
      132 amazon.jo
      133 amazon.jp
      134 amazon.ke
      135 amazon.kg
      136 amazon.kh
      137 amazon.ki
      138 amazon.km
      139 amazon.kn
      140 amazon.kp
      141 amazon.kr
      142 amazon.kw
      143 amazon.ky
      144 amazon.kz
      145 amazon.la
      146 amazon.lb
      147 amazon.lc
      148 amazon.li
      149 amazon.lk
      150 amazon.lr
      151 amazon.ls
      152 amazon.lt
      153 amazon.lu
      154 amazon.lv
      155 amazon.ly
      156 amazon.ma
      157 amazon.mc
      158 amazon.md
      159 amazon.me
      160 amazon.mg
      161 amazon.mh
      162 amazon.mk
      163 amazon.ml
      164 amazon.mm
      165 amazon.mn
      166 amazon.mo
      167 amazon.mp
      168 amazon.mq
      169 amazon.mr
      170 amazon.ms
      171 amazon.mt
      172 amazon.mu
      173 amazon.mv
      174 amazon.mw
      175 amazon.mx
      176 amazon.my
      177 amazon.mz
      178 amazon.na
      179 amazon.nc
      180 amazon.ne
      181 amazon.nf
      182 amazon.ng
      183 amazon.ni
      184 amazon.nl
      185 amazon.no
      186 amazon.np
      187 amazon.nr
      188 amazon.nu
      189 amazon.nz
      190 amazon.om
      191 amazon.pa
      192 amazon.pe
      193 amazon.pf
      194 amazon.pg
      195 amazon.ph
      196 amazon.pk
      197 amazon.pl
      198 amazon.pm
      199 amazon.pn
      200 amazon.pr
      201 amazon.ps
      202 amazon.pt
      203 amazon.pw
      204 amazon.py
      205 amazon.qa
      206 amazon.re
      207 amazon.ro
      208 amazon.rs
      209 amazon.ru
      210 amazon.rw
      211 amazon.sa
      212 amazon.sb
      213 amazon.sc
      214 amazon.sd
      215 amazon.se
      216 amazon.sg
      217 amazon.sh
      218 amazon.si
      219 amazon.sj
      220 amazon.sk
      221 amazon.sl
      222 amazon.sm
      223 amazon.sn
      224 amazon.so
      225 amazon.sr
      226 amazon.st
      227 amazon.su
      228 amazon.sv
      229 amazon.sy
      230 amazon.sz
      231 amazon.tc
      232 amazon.td
      233 amazon.tf
      234 amazon.tg
      235 amazon.th
      236 amazon.tj
      237 amazon.tk
      238 amazon.tl
      239 amazon.tm
      240 amazon.tn
      241 amazon.to
      242 amazon.tp
      243 amazon.tr
      244 amazon.tt
      245 amazon.tv
      246 amazon.tw
      247 amazon.tz
      248 amazon.ua
      249 amazon.ug
      250 amazon.uk
      251 amazon.us
      252 amazon.uy
      253 amazon.uz
      254 amazon.va
      255 amazon.vc
      256 amazon.ve
      257 amazon.vg
      258 amazon.vi
      259 amazon.vn
      260 amazon.vu
      261 amazon.wf
      262 amazon.ws
      263 amazon.ye
      264 amazon.yt
      265 amazon.yu
      266 amazon.za
      267 amazon.zm
      268 amazon.zw

      Besides, their job is NOT to reward you for breaking the law.

      Steve
    • Worst case - getting sued for domain squatting and trademark violation thanks to professional advice like that.
  • It is actually pretty simple . You have Amazon's proposal.

    They own the trade mark

    Now you could offer to negotiate for more than $10.

    This could piss them off to the point of really checking into your situation and simply not paying you any more commissions .

    Right now they are only doing what is required by law for them to do .... protect their Trade mark

    You could have just as easily been given a formal c&d . If it was me ... My files would already be transferred to a new domain and I wouldn't even worry about the ten bucks .
  • You need to pick your battles. Pick the ones you can win.
    This is not one of them.
    If you go head to head with amazon, you will not lose just your domain. They may ban you as an affiliate. So you will get a doube whammy.
    Earlier this year, I was fired as an amazon affiliate because my state (Hawaii) wanted to tax amazon. This really put a small dent in my botton line as I get a check from amazon every month. Luckily the state of Hawaii backed down (for now).
    So cut your losses and put your products on another domain. Use SEO, put up an email capture system and build up your list of kindle customers. Good luck...
    • [1] reply
    • That I can agree with.


      I suppose the bottom line is that opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone's got one and most of them stink.

      Although, I'm curious to find out what happens, so to the OP please keep us updated.
      • [2] replies
  • It seems a bit odd that they're offering to pay you up to $10 for your registration fee. Wouldn't Amazon just issue a cease and desist, a slam dunk transfer demand, etc?

    If you violated their trademark and they're coming to take what belongs to them, why offer any payment at all?

    Something smells fishy.

    Are you sure this was from Amazon?

    How do you know it wasn't from one of those tricksters pretending to be from a big corporation?

    See if you can verify the source of this request. It could be a shake down artist trying to scam you out of your domain name.

    Even if the email turns out to be bogus, you should know by now the risk you take by registering a domain name that contains a trademark.
    • [2] replies
    • Well, did you aim to make money off Amazon's trademark using it here? Unlike
      the OP who wanted to profit from it with his registration and use.

      If most people who posted here associated the domain with Amazon, why do
      do you think consumer confusion is doubtful?

      BTW, tilanus, go to the links below:

      Search WIPO Cases and WIPO Panel Decisions

      National Arbitration Forum

      Type in Amazon under complainant, and let us know what you find.

      Least bad result is simply losing the domain name. The worst....well....I'm sure
      you can imagine.

      But...if you wish to further defy them, up to you inspite of what everyone has
      pretty much said here.
    • I tend to agree with this post, especially seeing the way the OP says the email was signed. First I would contact Amazon.com and make sure the email was indeed sent by them. If it was, then give them their property, you can't win this one, they will take what is theirs, and pile on the lawyers to do it.

      But first I would make sure I wasn't being scammed. you can't be too careful today.





  • Banned
    Defy them if you want to be either sued or the name taken from you via WIPO. These threads keep coming up and people give the advice that it's ok to steal other people's trademarks, but the fact is, it isn't ok and if they've demanded the domain name, your best bet is to give it to them as quickly as possible and then to stop cybersquatting. Not only did you infringe on their trademarks, but you infringed on two of their trademarks all in one domain name.
  • Here's the first question you need to ask yourself.

    Are you prepared to spend $500,000 to defend yourself? That is what it will cost, win lose or draw.

    If you're not prepared to go that deep, sell the domain to them, and use the money they give you to get a new domain name and build a better store.

    If you are, then talk to a lawyer, and figure out your chances of winning. Again, if you don't have a leg to stand on, settle as quickly as you can so you can spend your resources on developing a new store instead of fighting a losing battle.

    Whichever way you choose, I wish you good luck.
  • I'm speaking from experience, I've had this happen to me twice, no, I didn't learn the first time

    I received a nice email very similar to the one you received. I ignored it thinking they wouldn't do anything. About 6 weeks later, I received a certified letter from their law offices with instructions on how to transfer the domain to them and a time period to comply. They continued to inform me of the pending suit and how they would continue if I didn't comply with their instructions.

    I complied and they dropped the suit.

    It happened with 2 large companies that DID take the time to follow through.

    If you listen to the "Forum Lawyers" that are giving you terrible advice, you will end up screwed.

    From someone that has been through this, move your content, remove the nameservers and transfer the domain.
  • I will keep this polite as possible.

    The fact that you even created this thread shows a gross lack of common sense, intelligence, and you only have yourself to blame for this situation.

    by the way, I'm refering to purchasing the domain in the first place which contained a trademarked name.

    The fact that it has been operating in the past is irrelevant, you do not know when amazons management were alerted to its presence. they could have only found out a couple of days beforehand, either way, YOU ARE THE ONE IN THE WRONG AND IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

    now, as for the HALFWITS TELLING YOU TO SELL THE DOMAIN BACK TO AMAZON WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE VIOLATING THEIR TRADEMARK, ARE YOU PEOPLE THAT F*CK*NG STUPID? *rolls around the floor laughing*

    I cant believe what I am reading, members of this forum, the most important IM forum on the net, ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO BREAK THE LAW EVEN FURTHER AND MAKING THINGS WORSE.

    unbelievable.
    • [1] reply
    • ???

      And who are you to judge others being stupid, ignorant, and missing the common sense??

      Where on the thread you find an advice to break the law?

      I think you need to see a therapist, you need a serious treatment for delusions and hallucination..

      And yes, this forum is the premium IM forum, the only problem with this forum is the lack of a way to prevent people like you from accessing it...
      • [1] reply
  • I understand what you are trying to get across but I hope you can see the difference between

    amazon-kindle-store.net and save-the-amazon-rainforest.org
  • I'm amazed that, two pages on, the OP still thinks this is worth pursuing. Fortunately I don't think I've ever seen two pages that screamed 'Go and see a lawyer!' more loudly - some of the posts would have been almost funny if they weren't so dangerous, and some of the posters seem to have drawn their legal 'knowledge' from afternoons spent watching courtroom scenes in 'Columbo'.

    Just one more thing. If you still think this is worth pursuing... go and see a lawyer.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Well, thanks for all your advise on this matter.

    When I'm reading the posts there are still 2 things which I would like to point out:

    1. Sure, amazon and kindle might be trademarks and using these words as your doman name is not allowed, but 'amazonkindlestore' is not a registered trademark.

    Of course the trademarks are used within the domain name but the domain name is to my knowledge not the same as a trademark. Or is it?

    So kindle.com would be called cybersquatting, but not kindlestore.com simply because kindlestore is not a trademark.

    2. Amazon has allowed the previous owner into their associate program with this very domain name: amazon-kindle-store.net They did not mention at all this was an infrigement on their trademarks. So, taking this latest email from amazon seriously they made a mistake in the first place by accepting the domain name.

    So far I never knew there would be a problem with trademarks within your domain. I come accros more than often privately owned websites with a trademark in the domain.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned


      You are probably right ... go ahead and defy them. I'm sure they won't mind at all. Or you might Google Trademark, or if that's too much trouble, just go here and read this
      Chilling Effects Clearinghouse: Trademark
      or not ... you seem to have a firm grip on legal matters, so why bother. Defy them and maybe even register some more. I've heard there's lots of money in Ebay domains too.
  • Ok dude, il be a little nicer,

    if you google "kindle" you get a bunch of links refering to "The AMAZON kindl" in the titles and reviews and picture search results.

    Hence the "KINDLE" is associated with "AMAZON.COM" as it is the name of a product which has been long awaited for release by them.

    and when most people refer to amazon, it usually is not in context of the rainforest, but amazon.com.

    My point is that those to words "amazon" and "kindle" are related, and when you put them both into a domain name, it is miss leading as there are a large group of people who see that and will most likely associate that domain as an official site for the new device when it is not.


    IF you were to do something stupid or something which would jeopardize the reputation of the brand, people would associate your site as being the official site and cause a potential massive headache for them.

    This is what amazon is not happy about.

    P.S it is strange they accepted it originally, but hey that's irrelevant because you shouldn't be using it anyway.

    and get over it dude, it aint worth you going bankrupt over a domain name that you shouldn't be using.

    and they can just as easily terminate your role as one of their affiliates, so be thankful that they have started of gently as opposed to using brute force
  • why is this thread still running?

    Oh..let's give this a twist then:

    YES!!!! KEEP the domains. I would also recommend getting some with "microsoft" in them, as well as a few "Apple" domains. Much luck. BUT PLEASE make this utterly pointless thread stop. The first post already answered your question. Its MORE than obvious. And you are still trying and trying.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • But apple is a fruit... you can't trademark that...
      • [2] replies
  • Oh. My. Gosh. This thread is still active. Amazing.

    As John McCabe mentioned, let him touch the stove. Perhaps Amazon will be nice and won't hold his hand there for too long.
  • Sell the site on Flippa!
    • [1] reply
    • Selling the site on Flippa just passes the problem on to somebody else, do you think that's the right thing to do?
  • Tell amazon that your planning to make an porn site on that domain.
    • [1] reply
  • Exactly, why are you willing to risk everything for a $1000 website when you are likely to have made all your money back? Have you thought why the BIN was so low in the first place for a site making $300 a month? I can tell you why, the seller was completely aware of the domain issue and so were experienced buyers! If the domain issue was not there, he could easily have sold that site for at least $3000.

    Site for Sale: The Kindle Store: New Site Already Making $300 a Month -- Flippa

    If you really want to negotiate with Amazon, get a lawyer to do it. But you may find that the lawyer fees may well exceed the $1000 you paid for the site!
    • [1] reply
    • LAST time I priced a lawyer, about 10 years ago, the AVERAGE price was $250/hour!

      1. Discussion (MAY BE FREE, TO A POINT)
      2. Letter
      3. First response.

      Just THAT is likely to cost $500-$750! And you will really only be about where you are!

      FRANKLY, I DOUBT any US citizen will SERIOUSLY consider normal court for less than $5000. Plaintiffs for LESS generally get a class action(which you COULDN'T do here anyway), or small claims(of course YOU aren't the plaintiff so you can't do THIS either!)!

      SOME corporations, like amazon, almost make MONEY through contracts and suits and, as such, have lawyers ON RETAINER! SO, as I said, their only REAL cost is the MEAGER filing fee! Don't forget, they have BEEN sued by amazon books, and sued barnes and nobel. *I* think they should really have lost both cases(though amazon books DID push things), but they WON!!!!!! They are not new at this.

      Steve
  • Thank you Killercopy for this reaction.

    That's my idea as well. I make them good money. Why kill this site that's making them money?

    And again I want to stress that it was amazon in the first place who approved this website. They do this with all the sites who want to join the amazon associate program.

    With allowing amazon-kindle-store.net into their program after they had a chance to refuse me. They themselves gave me the impression that it was okay that I make money for them. And that'swhy I was surprised it took them 6 months and writiing out cheques before they realised I was violating their TOS.

    And again, there are a lot of websites out there with a registered trademark in them, owned by individuals. Just look at the number of sites with google in it.

    Matt Cutts said the other day that google bought all kind of doman names with google in it (like googlesex.com) and misspellings in it in order to prefend others using these doman names. Apparently they're not sure their laywers can do the work for them.

    But thank you all for the advise. I'm not planning to go to court for this, but I doubt because of the costst they really will take this that far.
    • [5] replies
    • A drop in the ocean. It's good money to you, pocket change to them.

      If you'd read the TOS fully, you'd have saved all the heartache - btw, even if it was an administrative error on their part, that probably won't hold up at all.

      Just because someone else is doing it, doesn't set a precedent for you - you've been advised strongly and seem to be ignoring the advice.

      What Matt Cutts does is nothing to do with Amazon - Google makes its own commercial decisions - Amazon HAS made theirs.

      The have an OBLIGATION to protect their trademark - if they don't, they could lose rights to it... don't DOUBT that they will spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect a trademark worth millions to them.
    • Geez, It's lucky that I put that disclaimer after my original post (the second post on this thread)

      I've now re-assessed my thoughts after all your convincing arguments.
      Don't worry about lawyers, Trademark Law, WIPO, or any of that yucky stuff.

      Once you contact Amazon about this matter and explain your situation, I'm sure that they'll reconsider.

      They'll encourage you to register lots more amazon and kindle related names. Hell, they'll probably even pay the domain registration and hosting for you!

      And if you play your cards right, they'll ask you to their Christmas party, and invite you to join the top Amazon executives around the campfire and sing a couple of rounds of Kumbaya.

      And after that they'll probably hold a special presentation while they applaud all the riches that have flowed to Amazon from your involvement with them.

      Yeah, just ignore all those negative people who have responded to you on this thread. They're probably all just jealous.

      Yours Incredulously,
      Eric G.

      (And I'm still not a lawyer, and you still should ignore everything I've said)
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • Banned
      You really aren't listening at all, are you? Do you actually think that a $300 month/sales site is a significant factor in defending a multi-million dollar trademark? They have an entire legal department and I guarantee that their job is not to sit around on their butts all day letting cybersquatters dilute their trademarks.

      I can't wait to see a future thread from you:

      Waaa Waaa Waaa! Amazon Stole My Commissions and My Domain!
    • While I haven't seem them file a lawsuit for this specific issue in recent years,
      look up the Amazon.gr dispute. It's got a weird twist, but that ought to show
      you they aren't above suing if they see fit.

      This is also probably a waste of time, but here are some things to look up:

      Confusing similarity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Trademark dilution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      It's also probably selfish on Amazon's part, but only they will decide how they
      will benefit from their trademark and their commercial success. While you are
      trying to get a slice of the pie, you're doing it without their consent.

      And nope, their approving you into their affiliate program or whatever and not
      having contacted you about that domain name soon after doesn't necessarily
      mean they agree to what you're doing. Otherwise you won't get that letter to
      begin with, and neither were they psychic enough to know what you were up
      to.

      BTW, Google has also filed both administrative and legal actions against some
      people for domain-trademark infringement. For lawsuits, look up that case of a
      Netherlands-based man who registered domains bearing their trademark.

      But....I suppose you've got nothing to worry about if you're in a country or so
      that's outside Amazon's tangible reach? If they don't do business where you're
      at, anyway.

      And next thing you know, sbucciarel's prediction will come true.

      Oh, and for some folks who posted (and might post) dictionary....generic....or
      common words can't become trademarks, there are lots and lots of everyday
      samples like Shell, Tide, and Head and Shoulders. Feel free to check with few
      intellectual lawyers on this, but the thing is to use those in their distinctive
      rather than descriptive or common usage.
      • [1] reply
    • No, your site has made them no money...you have COST them money.

      You see, there is only ONE place in the whole world that you can buy a brand new Amazon Kindle...that's at Amazon. An affiliate's job is to convince your traffic to buy their product over another or to buy from their site over another. Not to intercept the traffic that was ALREADY going to Amazon to buy the Kindle and then HAVE to pay you for that traffic.

      It is ridiculous to think that because someone was already going to Amazon to buy a Kindle and your site got in their way, that this is somehow making Amazon money. :rolleyes:
  • I've just found this great domain name...

    ebay-auction-site.com

  • the guy who sold you the domain probably is accustomed to squatting brand

    it's a common practices by domain squatters to acqurie copyrighted domain name and sell them asap, as they know the dangers to lose them

    you just cope with that and rebuild a new site, i would suggest that you create a redirect of all your pages to the new store you create, and after you recovered as much and restarted, give them the domain and don't push it further with them; it's a losing battle

    best of luck
    Mary
  • [DELETED]
  • You should not have registered it anyway.

    As a rule nobody should register any domain name with a trademark in it.

    If you are unsure about something do not assume things.
    Do your research - see if a trademark exists and then decide what domain to register.

    Or ask a lawyer or a forum that hosts lawyers, etc.
  • lol, this thread is still going? and I'm LMFAO at the op still for his wishfull thinking, i cant believe the rationalizations hes trying to use to try to justify him being in violation of the law.

    As pointed out, what other people do does not give you the right to do so as well as they will eventually get caught as well.

    What is really funny is that you are actually serious about ignoring the letter of demand/cease and desist order because you naively think that they wont do anything despite the fact they spent the time and money to have a letter written and sent to you.

    I would assume that you realize that if you ignore the letter and continue violating the law not only will you face a massive fine but serious jail time.

    You know what guys, lets let him live in his little fantasy land where he can do no wrong, because it will be incredibly funny in a couple of months when he gets his ass handed to him by amazon because no doubt he will start a thread here crying about it and trying to rationalize why he has done nothing wrong, just like he has done in this thread.

    as for killercopy, and the comment about negative press, im not sure what kind of negative press your refering to. if in the unlikely event it made so much as 50th page news, remember that tillanus is in violation of the law, so he will be the one that faces any negative press that arrises for being stupid and ignoring the letter in the first place.
    • [1] reply
    • Skyfox, it's actually pretty common for folks to make posts asking for advice and then cherry-pick the answers that fit what they want to do anyway. Although it's happened here before, most people don't make public posts admitting (multiple times) to actions that prove willful intent to break the law and negating any claims of ignorance.

      As for worrying about bad publicity, the general public seems to have the attention span of a flea. Especially if any hoopla doesn't involve some starlet getting out of a car without her underpants.

      Case in point: the whoop-de-do when recording companies sued Napster and a bunch of "innocent kids" that were using it to steal music via the peer-to-peer networks. Yes, a few people called them mean and the late-night jokers had some fun with them. On the other side of the coin, a lot of people quit using those networks to obtain "free" music, games, etc. ASCAP and their kin took the publicity hit for a few weeks to gain a long term benefit.

      I'm guessing Amazon would, too. Especially since guys like tilanus aren't all that innocent...
      • [1] reply
  • OK...slow down everyone...Keep the domain name but forward it to another name while building the other domain name. Send amazon an email and apologize for not being properly informed and that you have taken the domain name down from your server. Do not offer to sell it back to them. Once it is not doing business, they cannot charge you with violating their TM. As long as it is not used in commerce, they cannot come after you. I've been through this several times before. Park the name and forward it to a new one and begin establishing the new one.
  • on a side-note, i know its ultra difficult to have a domain with "xbox" in it, but i STILL own a domain with the name xbox360 in it

    Anyway, i highly, highly doubt that Amazon will "bow" and pay you "a little money" for this domain. I think amazon has better things to do than buying out MANY domains with trademark violations - this is what they have lawyers for.

    If they are in the right, why on earth would they need/want to pay you "a little money"?
  • Here some additonal notes: (Please note i dont know a lot about those laws...)

    If they send you a simple CD letter like "we demand you take down this domain" you are actually in luck. As far as i understand such a CD letter is actually a courtesy.

    They *could* as well send their lawyers after you and claim they lost XYZ millions of dollars, you dont have the right to have a "amazon-kindle-store" and demand you pay them HUGE money for losses instead. With a simple CD letter you are off fine because all you need is put down the domain. (I did that once with a domain rolex-store.com where i got a letter from their lawyers in Switzerland

    Now...if you carry this out and go on, even demand money...it might get ugly for you.
  • Banned
    This guy is laughable. This thread is now my amusement thread for the day. To see someone cherry pick his responses to his question according to what he wants to hear ... a guy who fishes knows nothing ... Killer Joe knows all ... Cat Woman, who owns over 300 domains and has sold several for up to $900 and has read everything she can find on Trademark issues, knows nothing.

    I agree with Paul ... you deserve what's coming.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • I don't claim to know it all...that's for sure. I prefaced everything stating I'm a gambler...and what I would do (and what I have experienced in 14 years of Internet marketing). Is trademark infringement/dilution wrong? Absolutely...and I'd be the first to defend mine. And in no way am I saying to fight Amazon. My suggestion is to ignore them for now (until they get serious). Most likely, they will drop the issue. Yes, I do know a lot about lawsuits and the legal system and I can guarantee I've spent more time in court, dealing with a variety of legal issues, than pretty much anyone else on this forum (and no, I've never been sued nor have I ever been arrested).
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      And this studied opinion that a company as large as Amazon.com with a lot to lose if their trademark goes undefended, will simply drop it, comes based on what evidence? A gut feeling?
  • <shakes head, slowly walking away>

    Why start the thread, when you only wanted us to agree with you?

    The only interesting thing here is how many <stupid> people there are who don't care about anything but a quick buck.

    <sarcasm> If you think you have a cat's chance in winning this argument, why did you ask advice what to do in the first place?

    Another day for "brains" being sold cheaply and not been used before.

    <Thinking aloud> I wonder how many people working for Amazon are watching this thread, and taking note of the people giving bad advice?


  • Despite how entertaining this thread is, it's really getting dangerous with the bad advice, and I'm not so sure that everyone understands that some of the more recent tongue-in-cheek advice is actually sarcastic.

    As much as I would hate to see this thread go, I think it's time it does go away, deleted or locked, before the people who think it's a good idea to take bad advice actually get in serious trouble.

    Or not... I don't care... some folks don't seem to be listening anyways... carry on...

    .jrd
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • I am really amazed and shocked to see this thread is still active.
      Unbelievable! Kindle is one of the hottest products this Christmas.
      If you truly believe Amazon is going to let this slide....more power
      you.

      Now...the real reason I posted in this thread....I miss Captain Sisko
      Need to dig out my DS9 DVDs.

      Tam

  • I think they might be quite serious about this; and they could close your aff. account since you're violating their terms...
  • What would happen if you had a generic Domain name but the actual file name of the page had a trademarked term in it...for instance...

    www.mybooksite.com/amazon-kindle
    • [2] replies
    • This is taken directly from the Amazon Operating Agreement:

      • include any trademark of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates in any username, group name, or other identifier on any social networking website - for example, a username such as "Endless Shoes," or "Amazon Japan", or "Kindle For You" registered on a social networking site such as Twitter or Facebook would be unsuitable;

      Looks like you would be OK since that is not part of the domain name itself or a user name at a social networking site, but it would be best to ask Amazon directly.
    • Very different issue. A domain name or user ID suggests an ownership or representation status. Clearly not something they can allow. The product name on a page at a domain that's clearly not representing itself as part of Amazon, a review page, for example, would be exempt in most cases.


      Paul
  • Sorry you are having this problem. What a bummer.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about legal action. Amazon isn't going to sue you. They don't have to. All they have to do is contact your domain registrar, your hosting company, and delete you from the Associates Program, and you are out of business...and you will probably never get back in. This is not good if you are making any money with them.

    This is what I would do.

    1. Don't write or email them. Get someone on the phone. There is a toll number for the Associates Dept. You'll have to go online and find it since I don't have it handy at the moment. They are very easy to deal with.

    2. Give them the previous owner's name, and ask if they sent the same request to that person. If so, I would demand at least half of the money I paid for the site from that previous owner. You may even have legal recourse. If you are getting good results, Amazon probably realizes how valuable the name is, and wants it for their own use.

    3. Explain to Amazon that you purchased the site with that domain name attached, with Amazon ads on it, so you thought that it was approved. Tell them that the holiday season is coming up and you would like to have permission to leave the site running while you get a new site indexed through Google with a new name. Otherwise, you will loose your holiday earnings.

    4. Or you can tell them that you realize that the name is obviously valuable, but you are willing to give it up free of charge, if they will just let you use it for a couple more months. Don't forget to say please and thank you a lot. Dripping a little "honey" never hurts.

    5. Then I would get on the phone with the previous owner, and not be quite so nice.

    It never hurts to try negociating. You might be surprised at the results.

    Dixie
  • Done to death, but you can't fight the Amazon coffers.

    They have a duty to protect their trademark, or they'd stand to lose it.

    However, I'm WITH you...you're trying to SELL the bloody things for them.

    And, despite the HOO-HAH, I don't see the Kindle as being anything other than a very minor niche product.

    So, it has e-ink. So what?

    So have several other eBook readers which have failed to set the world alight...

    (I say this as a MASSIVE e-reader fanboy...)...I just can't see the mass market picking up on it.

    Steve
    • [1] reply
    • Steve,How many of them are spending the money Amazon is for TV advertising? Crappy ads, mind you, but still, they're running regularly.


      Paul
  • I am not sure about the answer
    but i have had similar problems.. a few years back i had a domain with olympics in it and ppl warned me about the trademark issue -- i just let it expire in a years time..
    dint do anything
  • negociate with them. maybe they will give you something, not really money .
  • Same here...

    Your domain..... No that is Amazons domain sorry not a snowballs chance in Hell are you going to keep that.
    • [1] reply
    • Hehe, just an update that the domain name mentioned here has been given to
      Amazon. Do a WHOIS lookup and see.
      • [2] replies
  • lol - edited!

    Good luck with that.

    Newbim.
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    Amazon wants my domain name. Can I defy them?

    Amazon wants my domain name. Can I defy them? I'm selling kindles (ereaders) as an Amazon affiliate on my site which I bought from the previous owner who began the site in March this year. I have good income from this site, but now amazon send me an email "requesting" my domain name ( amazon-kindle-store.net) because the name is using their trademarks. However, they did tolerate me and the previous owner in their affiliate program for 6 months. Until now.