I guess graphic designers here don't like money???

by mdunn123 31 replies
NOTE: It's come to my attention that there are a few designers that might be a little bit upset over this post, and rightfully so. I did contact a few designers today regarding the same type of work and didn't connect the post to them. I'm very sorry to those new designers who saw this post and assumed I was talking about them. I'm not at all, and in fact most of designers have got back to me very quickly. This post is regarding those I contacted many days ago, so I'm sorry that I led you to that connection. Sorry guys!!

Ok guys...

This is a bit of rant with many of the designers in the designer forum, but I have to say it. Hopefully some of you might learn from others very poor business practices and do the exact opposite.

I've contacted 5 different designers on the new forum. Spent looking through their portfolio and everything else they had offered. I need lots of work done from a custom template, to graphics, and possible logo.

Out of those 5 people.....

2 responded....

1 is on constant contact and knows how to run a business. While his work and skills don't exactly fit what I need, I really do appreciate his professionalism.

The other designer enjoys responding once every two days and still has yet to live up to her promise of even sending over an estimate.

The other 3 designers have been contacted more than once, and have to even reply (this is over a course of 5 days by the way).

For everyone out there...

If this is how you conduct your business and you can figure out why you just can't seem to be successful...well...look in the mirror.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #designers #graphic #guess #money
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  • Profile picture of the author KenJ
    I do not do graphics but I do write.

    I have been approached by many people who seem to be serious about placing an order for articles or whatever. Then at some point they stop all communication. nothing, de nada, rien, nichts..... What happened???

    So as an expert writer I focus on current bookings and commisions as I know the money is there for me.

    Maybe your offer isn't enticing enough for the supplier.

    Of course you could be the perfect customer and these people cannot run a business but I wanted to speak up as a supplier who has had their time wasted in the past
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    • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
      WEird how things are. Usually you hear complaining the other way around as graphic artists complain about lack of pay.

      I really don't understand the lack of communication you describe, as it is imperative in any business to communicate with potential clients. Even if you don't get the job but handle yourself in a business like manner it certainly makes an impression.

      Oh well, their loss, someone elses gain. There are TONS of talented artists here, and I am sure you will find the right service provider. One that wants your money

      keith
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    • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
      Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

      WEird how things are. Usually you hear complaining the other way around as graphic artists complain about lack of pay.

      I really don't understand the lack of communication you describe, as it is imperative in any business to communicate with potential clients. Even if you don't get the job but handle yourself in a business like manner it certainly makes an impression.

      Oh well, their loss, someone elses gain. There are TONS of talented artists here, and I am sure you will find the right service provider. One that wants your money


      keith
      I know it's rather unusual, and there really are very many wonderful people here...I know I've worked with a lot of them. I'm just upset at how many people don't take their business seriously.

      Originally Posted by kenj View Post

      I do not do graphics but I do write.

      I have been approached by many people who seem to be serious about placing an order for articles or whatever. Then at some point they stop all communication. nothing, de nada, rien, nichts..... What happened???

      So as an expert writer I focus on current bookings and commisions as I know the money is there for me.

      Maybe your offer isn't enticing enough for the supplier.

      Of course you could be the perfect customer and these people cannot run a business but I wanted to speak up as a supplier who has had their time wasted in the past

      I know exactly what you're referring to, and I make sure I never behave that way. I hate being on the other end of poor business practices so I make sure I never do the same. As for the designers that simply don't respond or respond slowly enough, I'm sure it's not a lack of exciting work as it's creative work right down their alley, and it's enough work to fill plenty of time slots.
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      • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
        Who are you targeting with these enquiries? (not names, but are they low priced designers?)

        I'm not going to leap to the defence of anyone, but it is a VERY busy time for designers at the moment (and IM in general) - I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I'm booked solid. But, I usually schedule work in ahead of time - and, of course, respond to emails and PMs.

        Kindest regards,
        Karl.
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        • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
          Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

          Who are you targeting with these enquiries? (not names, but are they low priced designers?)

          I'm not going to leap to the defence of anyone, but it is a VERY busy time for designers at the moment (and IM in general) - I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I'm booked solid. But, I usually schedule work in ahead of time - and, of course, respond to emails and PMs.

          Kindest regards,
          Karl.
          Hi Karl,

          Some of these guys are actually high up there on the pay chain, some not. Busy I understand, lack of communication and professionalism I don't. If you're too busy, and booked solid...get back to me...let me know...show me your work...etc...and I would highly consider doing business with you in the future or even booking you right now for further down the line. Get what I mean?
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          • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
            Originally Posted by mdunn123 View Post

            If you're too busy, and booked solid...get back to me...let me know...show me your work...etc...and I would highly consider doing business with you in the future or even booking you right now for further down the line. Get what I mean?
            Of course...

            I'm not going to educate my competitors how to run their business though... leaves far more clients available for me.

            Well, not until I start coaching and consulting in the near future.

            Kindest regards,
            Karl.
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            • Profile picture of the author Amanda K. Jones
              Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

              Well, not until I start coaching and consulting in the near future.
              Where do we sign up for your list??
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          • Profile picture of the author KenJ
            Hi Mdunn

            OK I have to back down a bit here. I think that sending an email saying " I am stacked with work currently" or whatever takes no effort. I even have a few draft emails ready to shoot out. How sad is that??

            This is precisely what I do now. I even turn down work and try and give another name out.

            You have to be professional and businesslike. If you are not then you are not in business - you are trying to pay bills till next week.

            My point is that some customers are also unprofessional. Anyhoo!! I will return to my work of writing for now.
            I do hope you find a graphics person who turns up and does the job. I would offer to do it but I'm useless with graphics
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            • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
              Hello,

              What happens a lot to me is

              I need graphics today I go live in 4 hours

              Everyone who needs graphics you need to plan while you get your
              software made or ebook written or sales page done contact us a
              head of time.

              I'm not saying you did not do that but you must have contacted
              someone who could have had one of the rush jobs need in 3 hours.

              Here is how I do it, you get to pick two of the three

              Good
              Fast
              Cheap

              Good and fast it won't be cheap

              Cheap and good it won't be fast

              Get the point that is how I roll.

              If you need a full time designer for your membership site I have a
              opening to do up to 4 mini sites per month for you PLR stuff.

              So If you contact me at a time where I'm doing my other
              membership sites I might just send a quick I will get back
              with you soon.

              You pay up front I will give you a better Ideal when it will be done.

              hope that help answer some questions

              Richard Dean
              Godfather of the eCover Photoshop Actions
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        • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
          Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

          Who are you targeting with these enquiries? (not names, but are they low priced designers?)

          I'm not going to leap to the defence of anyone, but it is a VERY busy time for designers at the moment (and IM in general) - I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I'm booked solid. But, I usually schedule work in ahead of time - and, of course, respond to emails and PMs.

          Kindest regards,
          Karl.
          I worked with Karl. He was very communicative, and really fast. Great job, I know the OP definitely wasn't referring to Karl.

          TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
    May I join the rant?


    I'm in business for more than 20 years now and this is something I've experienced over and over again myself, not especially in the warrior forum but in general.

    It seems that many, many small businesses (meaning: 1-person-businesses) don't have a professional attitude.
    • It starts with expecting to run a business without any investment. People expect to get all their tools and information for their business free, while at the same time expecting to get nicely paid for what they have to offer.
    • It continues in not answering customer inquiries. Or in making promises they can't keep.
    • And ends with not delivering the service in time and in some cases not delivering at all or delivering a quality that is unacceptable.
    Well, that's just how it is - in the area of home based business many want to make it but also many don't put in the effort. For myself I love to deliver excellent products and service, but I know it really means 'going the extra mile' and in some weird way I enjoy doing it.

    I always appreciate when I meet the rare kind of like minded business people who also live up to their standards. Some of them are right here at this forum, aren't you guys?

    Ralf
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    These types of businesses are typically one-man operations &
    perhaps they are simply overwhelmed and do not have time to
    respond to all their requests. If you require top notch service,
    professionalism and immediate attention, or you lack patience,
    this probably is not the place to seek the services; an agency
    would be better for you but you would likely pay more also.

    Unless the designer posted a WSO promising delivery within a
    certain timeframe, you should give the benefit of the doubt.
    Most creative types are busy being creative, the exact reason
    that most artists require agents.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenJ
      Just to reverse the rant as a supplier

      Who should I serve

      The guy who is paying me or the maybe person who want "quality"articles but "cannot afford to pay more then $5 per article"

      I honestly believe that a good offer will get good service
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      • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
        Originally Posted by kenj View Post

        Just to reverse the rant as a supplier

        Who should I serve

        The guy who is paying me or the maybe person who want "quality"articles but "cannot afford to pay more then $5 per article"

        I honestly believe that a good offer will get good service
        Kenj,

        I completely agree with that just because you're a supplier doesn't mean you have to work for everybody and work for bread crumbs...I wouldn't either. I was just referring to the lack of professionalism between some of the providers I've come in contact with the past. I know that a lot of times the supplier and I agree that we're just not a good fit for each other for may reasons, but we maintain a top level of professionalism, trust, and communication. Things like that build your businesses image and reputation.
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    • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
      Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

      These types of businesses are typically one-man operations &
      perhaps they are simply overwhelmed and do not have time to
      respond to all their requests. If you require top notch service,
      professionalism and immediate attention, or you lack patience,
      this probably is not the place to seek the services; an agency
      would be better for you but you would likely pay more also.

      Unless the designer posted a WSO promising delivery within a
      certain timeframe, you should give the benefit of the doubt.
      Most creative types are busy being creative, the exact reason
      that most artists require agents.

      While I understand that a lot of these Warriors are one man operations I have to strongly dis-agree with you regarding the matter of having "patience". There's simply no excuse as to why you can't respond to someone within a quick time frame...at the very least let them know that you are flooded, might be delayed, or to give out some more information regarding your work....even if it's just a pre made email template.

      I'm not asking some of these guys to get back to me and have my work done and to get paid in a 3 hours or less. But if you want to get paid like the big boys, and work with the big boys, stack up, manage your time, manage your business or lose.

      You could be the most talented and amazing designer in the world...but behave like some of designers I've come across already....and you would have chance of doing business with me...and I'm NOT even one of the big boys.....yet
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    What is it that you want done ? You do realize most of the time if a designer can not do what you ask then they normally don't respond.

    Could be maybe those designers are also busy... You can not expect to get a reply asap as sometimes it does take time especially when a designer is working for another cleint.

    James

    Originally Posted by mdunn123 View Post

    Ok guys...

    This is a bit of rant with many of the designers in the designer forum, but I have to say it. Hopefully some of you might learn from others very poor business practices and do the exact opposite.

    I've contacted 5 different designers on the new forum. Spent looking through their portfolio and everything else they had offered. I need lots of work done from a custom template, to graphics, and possible logo.

    Out of those 5 people.....

    2 responded....

    1 is on constant contact and knows how to run a business. While his work and skills don't exactly fit what I need, I really do appreciate his professionalism.

    The other designer enjoys responding once every two days and still has yet to live up to her promise of even sending over an estimate.

    The other 3 designers have been contacted more than once, and have to even reply (this is over a course of 5 days by the way).

    For everyone out there...

    If this is how you conduct your business and you can figure out why you just can't seem to be successful...well...look in the mirror.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
    One other good Point

    Time Zone what time zone are they in?

    In a lot of other places they have tropical storms and internet goes down for days or weeks at a time.

    We have trouble in the USA also so please keep that in mind when contacting us graphic designers.

    Richard Dean
    Godfather of Ecover Actions
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    5 Minute Mobile Sites... My Next WSO Comming Soon.

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    • Profile picture of the author Monetize
      Originally Posted by RichardDean View Post

      One other good Point

      Time Zone what time zone are they in?

      In a lot of other places they have tropical storms and internet goes down for days or weeks at a time.

      We have trouble in the USA also so please keep that in mind when contacting us graphic designers.

      Richard Dean
      Godfather of Ecover Actions
      That is such an important consideration. You're very insightful
      for mentioning this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kate Anderson
        It's worse when they respond to take your money but then you wait around for the graphics for weeks, or months.. this happens far more than it should.

        I agree with everything you said. It doesn't take much to send out an email just notifying those who contact you that you're booked up. Some people need to realize that while business may be booming now, you might be struggling for work in a week or a months time. (This industry changes rapidly), and the way you handle potential customers when you don't "need" them is a direct reflection of how you may treat them once you do.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I have had some excellent experiences with some unknown graphic designers and I have had some terrible experiences with some that had rave reviews written about them on the forum.
    Believe me, the unprofessional ones wont be around for the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    I'm one of the designers you contacted that hasn't responded yet.
    Your PM arrived at 7:17pm. It's currently 9:09pm.

    It's been an entire 2 hours.

    I think a bit of patience is required. I literally just stepped away from the dinner table to check on PM's despite the fact I clearly advertise 9am-5pm hours.

    And after reading this rant, I'm glad I didn't respond sooner.
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    • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
      Originally Posted by BlueSquares View Post

      I'm one of the designers you contacted that hasn't responded yet.
      Your PM arrived at 7:17pm. It's currently 9:09pm.

      It's been an entire 2 hours.

      I think a bit of patience is required. I literally just stepped away from the dinner table to check on PM's despite the fact I clearly advertise 9am-5pm hours.

      And after reading this rant, I'm glad I didn't respond sooner.
      I'm sorry that you got that impression I REALLY AM!! You were one of the designers that was contacted, BUT NOT one of designers that I was referring to at all in the post!!! VERY SORRY!!

      I know I just contacted you earlier today, please don't take this post towards you! I was mentioning those I contacted almost 6 days ago today.

      Thank you by the way for looking through my PM!
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    I'm no graphic designer, but I'm guessing it could be a few different things.

    1) They are busy and booked solid and are not taking any new clients at this time. Instead of saying so they haven't responded.

    2) People have lives. People do things like eat, shower, and sleep so nobody is on 24/7. Maybe you were expecting an IMMEDIATE reply and became impatient. BlueSqaures said it's been an entire 2 hours. Expecting everyone to respond within 2 hours is crazy. Expecting a reply within 2 days, ok, but 2 hours, no way.

    3) If you have a price range in your contact, it could have been too low.

    4) They just didn't respond for whatever reason.

    5) They didn't receive it.

    So there are a few more options than they just don't like money and don't want any new business.
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  • I'll do anything you want for money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
    Spend time finding a good designer...(however long that will take.)

    Step 2. Build up a relationship with them over time and keep using them.
    ..you'll end up being their VIP client and will get priority soon enough :-)

    Adeel
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  • Profile picture of the author Najat Engineer
    Maybe they don't check the forum everyday
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Don't you just LOVE these people that say "Spend time finding a good designer...(however long that will take.)"! ************************************************** ************************************************** ******************************************DUH***** ************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************************

    WHAT do you think they are doing!?!?!?!? How long do you suggest that that be? 20 years? 100? 300? 400? SORRY, we aren't vulcan, we can't just wait that long.

    As for me, I basically lost interest. A good graphic designer could bring that back a bit. But PLEASE come up with something better than the IDIOTIC "Spend time finding a good designer...(however long that will take.)"!

    Yeah, and you can find the meaning to life by just looking for it. HEY, it is ALSO the way to find the cure for cancer, and earn a trillion dollars! Since I just told you what some gurus say that charge life savings, maybe you can throw some money my way!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Preben Frenning
    I haven't read this entire post, but what I recently did, was just to create a new thread asking for an "affordable graphics designer". That way, everyone replying was genuinely interested in working for me.
    I even got loads of PM's as well, so all I had to do was to check out their portfolio's to see which one I wanted to use.
    It was my first time outsourcing, and everything worked out great =)
    - Preben
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