Can you succeed by doing no more than the competition-

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If I take a category like gardening, there are many sellers who sell a whole load of similar stuff to each other, to a large extent.

They all sell tulips ,begonias, hyacinths, iris as well as many others.

The question is if someone just sold iris and nothing else, could they succeed.
They are not selling any more varieties of iris than the others.
The point is if a person is interested in iris ,nothing seems to drive a person to a particular seller.
They only find out about the iris's when they have received a catalogue sent to them.
Admittedly a lot of people will have thought that these generalists would sell them anyway.
But if you were keen on iris's and you saw the word in the ad. Would you not be more inclined
to buy from me because I have positioned myself as a specialist. Even though in reality I am doing nothing different.
#competition #succeed
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

    But if you were keen on iris's and you saw the word in the ad. Would you not be more inclined
    to buy from me because I have positioned myself as a specialist. Even though in reality I am doing nothing different.
    You've just answered your own question. In fact, your thread title is a misnomer because by specializing, you are doing more than the competition - at least in your gardening example. You're doing better marketing (positioning) and branding.

    However, you have to ask yourself if specializing to such an extent is going to result in a viable business that's sustainable in the long term. If you hit on a passionate market and speak to them in their own language - building trust and authority along the way - then maybe.

    Otherwise, you could find yourself outdone by generalists with bigger budgets who simply copy your targeting technique.
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

    If I take a category like gardening, there are many sellers who sell a whole load of similar stuff to each other, to a large extent.

    They all sell tulips ,begonias, hyacinths, iris as well as many others.

    The question is if someone just sold iris and nothing else, could they succeed.
    They are not selling any more varieties of iris than the others.
    The point is if a person is interested in iris ,nothing seems to drive a person to a particular seller.
    They only find out about the iris's when they have received a catalogue sent to them.
    Admittedly a lot of people will have thought that these generalists would sell them anyway.
    But if you were keen on iris's and you saw the word in the ad. Would you not be more inclined
    to buy from me because I have positioned myself as a specialist. Even though in reality I am doing nothing different.

    Yes, you can succeed by offering only one type of flower,
    I have done this with a particular flower that is very popular,
    for over 20 years.

    As to your competition, you have no way of knowing what
    they are doing so you should never set your standards or
    goals based on what you perceive them to be doing.

    Your competition could have 50 different websites, each
    one specializing in this, that, or the other.

    That's what I do. And so do many other people. This is not
    a novel idea.

    Setting up a website is as easy as falling off a log.

    Creating custom content is even easier.

    If you want to beat your competition, you need to learn
    how to think outside the box.
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    • Profile picture of the author barriethethinker
      Thanks. There does not seem to be many specializing in one flower apart from the very biggest selling flowers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Monetize
        Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

        Thanks. There does not seem to be many specializing in one flower apart from the very biggest selling flowers.

        Most members are using a different forum format/view
        than you, so we cannot tell who you are responding to.
        Please use @ or something to indicate who you are
        addressing, and/or change your view.

        People in this thread and your other one have been
        doing business for 50 years, some have been online
        since the very beginning of the internet/www.

        Take their advice or don't. If you want to re-invent the
        wheel and waste years experimenting, that's fine.

        People do not get into the most profitable businesses
        because they do not research things in advance, or
        take the time to learn about the things they need to
        know, that is why there is such a high failure rate.

        It doesn't matter why people buy things. They need
        it or want it. I buy groceries so that I don't starve.

        It's not rocket science.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    I added your question from the OFFLINE sub forum, since they are related to starting a business, and in that post you were specific about mail order, and I do have a few years of that under my belt too.

    So. First off, Frank gave you some very good advice (his trademark)...and you would do well to read that again and Monitize has been doing exactly what you are thinking of...so she would make a great brain to pick while here too.

    I start from a different perspective, one of INTENT. What is it you want to gain from these activities? Most start a business venture with the hope of making money, so we can start there...how much? What is the goal? And about 1001 other questions as to your motivation for doing this. Being known as long winded, I will try to cut to the chase.

    My decades old advice is when starting any business/money making ventures (they can be different)...the most THOUGHT one can give to their future is: BUYERS first.

    Start with BUYERS. That is if you want to take the very fastest, easiest path to money making success, which is not to say that hard work and grinding and spending a lot of time can't also take you there...

    But, if in any sort of a hurry. And fastest money. Begin with those who are already spending their money on something, and join in their parade. In your OFFLINE example you give us a choice between buyers and dog owners, the only choice is to change your merchandise, and offer to those who have shown they will buy by mail order.

    Any other questions?

    GordonJ



    I am looking to start selling this way .New to this, so any advice would be appreciated.

    Nothing fancy to start off. An 8 sided A5 catalogue/leaflet. I am looking at doing gifts but am not totally convinced.
    Things that may be a problem are the following.

    There are so many gift catalogues and this is yet just another one . There is no overall penetrating theory or vision of the business. The only reason that it is a possible consideration is that the products are different. In that they are not in this country. But is that sufficient as these products have no solid link with each other apart from being gifts.


    Another question is this and it is a general question-so don't look at it from the gifts category.
    Which way am I better to spend my budget out of these 2.

    Say I was selling merchandise for dogs and I am offered 2 lists. The first is of people who have dogs,but there is no record they have bought by mail. The other list is of those that buy by mail but do not necessarily have a dog.
    Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

    If I take a category like gardening, there are many sellers who sell a whole load of similar stuff to each other, to a large extent.

    They all sell tulips ,begonias, hyacinths, iris as well as many others.

    The question is if someone just sold iris and nothing else, could they succeed.
    They are not selling any more varieties of iris than the others.
    The point is if a person is interested in iris ,nothing seems to drive a person to a particular seller.
    They only find out about the iris's when they have received a catalogue sent to them.
    Admittedly a lot of people will have thought that these generalists would sell them anyway.
    But if you were keen on iris's and you saw the word in the ad. Would you not be more inclined
    to buy from me because I have positioned myself as a specialist. Even though in reality I am doing nothing different.
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    • Profile picture of the author barriethethinker
      Thanks.
      What I am hoping to gain is to do something that I want to do and make money.
      I am looking to make money for good causes. Not really looking to make it for myself.

      A good book and a couple of sweets and I am happy.
      You state that most people start a business to make money. But I am not so sure.
      Whenever you ask anyone that is what they say. But I think that is what they believe. Why does not everyone go into the most profitable businesses. Why do not all wealthy people go into real estate.
      The aim is to make as much as possible without taking up every single hour. To leave a bit of time to have a life.
      I know it is buyers first. You say think that for the easiest fastest way. But is that not the way at all times.
      From what you say it seems to be that being a mail order buyer is more important quality than being in the market for a particular good ?
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Often, when dealing with English as a second language users, they may rely on translation services, or software, or maybe just their own use of the language. So, sometimes, some things might get lost in the translation.

        I try to respond to the context of posts, this being a well known INTERNET MARKETING forum, where most come to interact with those doing or those wanting to do IM, with the INTENT of making money.

        Iris growers probably don't come here often, unless they seek specific info about an aspect of IM which they lack knowledge in.

        The context of your first two posts were about MAIL ORDER, and/or whether or not a specialist might do better than a generalist selling a singular thing vs multiple "things" (in this case the thing being flowers).

        In MAIL ORDER, a buyer is absolutely, hands down, no contest...more important than a general market...BUT...when someone is "in the market" for a particular good, that is a different thing. Mail order is a push out to the already known buyer.

        When someone is looking for a thing, we must then PULL them in.

        In the CONTEXT of IM, and the Warrior Forum, in the past 25 years, I have yet to identify any Warrior who comes here and does not have an interest in making money (other than the trolls).

        Of course people start businesses for a wide variety of reasons, maybe they have a hobby or do something better than most, and convert that skill into a business...I did that with golf. But lets keep in mind where we are...at the WARRIOR FORUM, and as for the art of the deal of making money.

        I'd wager 99.99% of every past mail order success will take a BUYER as their starting point if they were to start over from scratch vs trying to find someone interested in something.

        Now there are 10,000 ways to complicate IM, and you'll easily find most all of them here too. Good luck with your philanthropy.

        GordonJ


        Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

        Thanks.
        What I am hoping to gain is to do something that I want to do and make money.
        I am looking to make money for good causes. Not really looking to make it for myself.

        A good book and a couple of sweets and I am happy.
        You state that most people start a business to make money. But I am not so sure.
        Whenever you ask anyone that is what they say. But I think that is what they believe. Why does not everyone go into the most profitable businesses. Why do not all wealthy people go into real estate.
        The aim is to make as much as possible without taking up every single hour. To leave a bit of time to have a life.
        I know it is buyers first. You say think that for the easiest fastest way. But is that not the way at all times.
        From what you say it seems to be that being a mail order buyer is more important quality than being in the market for a particular good ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

        You state that most people start a business to make money. But I am not so sure.
        Whenever you ask anyone that is what they say. But I think that is what they believe. Why does not everyone go into the most profitable businesses. Why do not all wealthy people go into real estate.
        The aim is to make as much as possible without taking up every single hour. To leave a bit of time to have a life.
        The point being made was that people start a business to make money - not necessarily "the most possible money". Businesses that don't make any profit are generally known as hobbies.

        You implied an understanding of this by asking whether you can "succeed" by doing no more than the competition. Business success means turning a profit - what you do with that profit is up to you.

        As has been said, there are advantages to specialization in a crowded market. If you wanted a simple answer to the question posed in your thread title, that was it. Of course, there are many more questions leading on from that which depend on factors such as the specific market, the nature of your product/service, your resources and experience and, not least, your expectations.

        Its a good to look into why people buy stuff. A list should be put up on all the reasons.
        The subject of why people buy is a broader one and has been much covered on this board as well as in countless books and courses. If you want to research it, you'll find plenty of information readily available. It would be useful to gain a basic grounding in this before embarking on any sales venture.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kosmalll
    People don't always buy because of the variety -- they buy because it feels like "these folks know their stuff." Branding wins.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Kosmalll View Post

      People don't always buy because of the variety -- they buy because it feels like "these folks know their stuff." Branding wins.
      This might be a good take off spot, understanding the reasons people do buy. Sure, sometimes it is about branding, look no further than Apple products to see that.

      Sometimes it might be the Perception of authority, or folks knowing their stuff.

      There are many, many reasons why people buy, which is why it makes sense to start from a position of knowing what people buy, and build out from there.

      Branding, price, convenience, supply, personal connection...all are tipping points for many buyers.

      So if one starts knowing why people buy, wouldn't you agree that is a much better starting point than just some random desire to sell something to someone?

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author barriethethinker
        Its a good to look into why people buy stuff.
        A list should be put up on all the reasons.
        Some things like personal connection should be gone into more .For example people grow up get hobbies, make friends who introduce them to X.I am talking about the processes or situations in life that make people arrive at a personal connection. This may help a person starting.
        You have to start with your strengths, what you are good at.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kosmalll
          Yes, this corresponds to the position of person a), which states that people don't always buy because of variety, but because they feel the seller is an expert in their field.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamell
    It comes down to strategy and marketing so yes you can succeed by doing less just as you long as you are doing more of the right thing .
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  • Profile picture of the author Marie Kandase
    I mean, if you are doing more than your competition on this, you are already winning, maybe not instant results but you will see them with the passing of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Moodesburn1977
    best trying to dominate the competetion
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  • Profile picture of the author MarcelloFumuso
    I see your point! Specializing in iris could definitely help you stand out. Even if your products are similar, being positioned as a specialist builds trust and attracts customers who value expertise. It's all about how you brand yourself and create that connection with your audience.
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  • Profile picture of the author barriethethinker
    Thanks for the replies and time taken.
    Here is my take to the replies
    To Frank Donovan-thanks for pointing out the danger of extreme specialization, but well aware .I was not saying profit not necessary/vital, just that it is not the main reason in many cases.

    Both you and Gordon think that getting a grounding in the reasons why people buy a good thing. Monetize says people need it or want it. It is not rocket science, and seems to give the impression it is not needed ? But it could help some people ? I personally agree with the former, but that does not mean I am correct. Gordon I think is correct in stating that better to start with buyers. But to state that it is better than just some random desire is making an assumption on behalf of the seller, that maybe incorrect. But I get your drift.
    Monetize states that setting up websites is easy. However, does that apply to webs that can really do the job properly .I don't see that many great ones t hat do a good selling job.
    A few other assumptions that need to be pointed out .Because people think' inside the box'
    box does not mean they do not think outside the box as well at times. Yes , a person should listen to those with experience. But it is about what you learn ,not about length of time. Some people do all their lives but barely learn .I think you are spot on for the failure rate both in marketing -lack of research..
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    • Profile picture of the author Monetize
      Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

      Monetize states that setting up websites is easy. However, does that apply to webs that can really do the job properly .I don't see that many great ones t hat do a good selling job.

      Setting up websites is relatively easy compared to doing
      things like digging ditches, working a construction job,
      feeding zoo animals, being on your feet all day, etc.

      It is easier than ever since you can use A.I. to generate
      your code, content, graphics and images, but it is you that
      determines what is on your website and the message it
      conveys.

      So, if you want a great sales page, you need to work on
      that.

      There are books, videos, and courses on this topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author barriethethinker
    I was talking about people that can set up a website that does a great selling job.
    Most people even some "professional " companies " have not put the information to use.
    You cannot generally make a great selling website like this. There are a few individuals. You really need to employ someone who has done it. Surprised, thought you of all people would know that. What you need to learn is that not everyone can do everything well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Monetize
      Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

      I was talking about people that can set up a website that does a great selling job.
      Most people even some "professional " companies " have not put the information to use.
      You cannot generally make a great selling website like this. There are a few individuals. You really need to employ someone who has done it. Surprised, thought you of all people would know that. What you need to learn is that not everyone can do everything well.

      Thank you but besides being educated as well as self-taught
      and well-read, plus having decades of business experience,
      I still spend a good deal of my time learning new things, and
      so I don't need any pointers from YOU or anyone else about
      what I need to learn.

      YOU are the one asking questions here, not the established
      members.

      Amazon does a good job selling, go observe that and any of
      the other e-commerce platforms, and stop making comments
      about things that you do not know.
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  • Let's presoom it is Moi vs Madonna.

    For the affections -- imaginary or tumescent -- of some guy.

    To figure what "dowin' no more" means, you gotta ask ... what she dowin'?

    From here, you can match, beat, or protick yusself in areahs you losin' out.

    My persnl template looks like this:

    1) She is merely a pop star dun good in the 80s an' gaht lucky offa nose jobs; I am a natchrl princess.

    2) I don't need tin bras to appear perky.

    3) Yeah so she can sing bettah. I grant her that.

    Why I sayin' this?

    Bcs you gotta face up to the competition in all ways you can, kinda see where you at.

    Then you can chart a course forward based on yr natchrl advantages an' covah yr own back 'bout yr less skilled areahs.

    Bottom line: be sure you competin' 'bout the same stuffs.

    Bcs Madonna an' Moi share diffrent BF tastes for sure.

    Prize is diffrent, dusspite the lavish service.

    Anyways, best advice I gaht is to imagine a TWO-WAY ELEVATAH PITCH.

    You know how it goes.

    You gaht sum KILLAH LINES you LET FLOW OUT like THE BOWELS OF SATAN AFTAH A NIGHT ON HEAVY DOOTY COCKTAILS before YOUR CAPTIVE PROSPECT with a view to CHARM, PERSUADE, an' potentially ENSLAVE.

    Only this time, you gotta fight it out in the elevatah with yr rival before reachin' the penthouse.

    One ascent. Two pitches. Your only chance to avoid DEATH.

    So Madonna says, "heard you can't sing."

    She looks upbeat, figures she's won it right out.

    "Yeah, but at least the cacophony comin' outta my own lips. Figure the penthouse too far up, yours're gonna explode."

    "A princess, huh? Is that your only claim to fame?"

    "Beats uplift bras."

    "I've hung out free and loose more times than you've had hot dinners, you bitch."

    "Gotta forgive an octogenarian, I guess."

    *momentary silence as the elevatah doors part as if whooshied open by sum benevolent deity*

    *turns out the FOCUS of the COMPETITION is sum sweaty-lookin' guy called JIMBO who ain't jus' right for neithah gals in the elevatah, but kinda frickin' nowan jeezis*

    *catfight turns to laughs as the horizon shifts*

    "Pizza?" says Madonna.

    "Gotta be sum godawful skin complaint for sure," I reply. "Yeah, but let's hang out sweet 'steada fightin'."

    "On me. Also: hairdo tips."

    "Lifelong prahblem!"

    "But my bras ... yanno?"

    "I'm on it, babe."

    So ... same as ... diffrnt to ... an' who cares?

    Those are muh questions always -- speshly when I wake up any time an' fergitten who I am.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Is an additional freebie product a good idea or a waste of time

    what can i put with handbag
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by barriethethinker View Post

      Is an additional freebie product a good idea or a waste of time what can i put with handbag
      Although I regard you as either a troll or a not serious Warrior, I again tell you the quality of your questions determine the quality of the answers you get.

      Having worked in a company that sold millions of dollars of jewelry, handbags, purses, etc., there is evidence that an add on freebie COULD increase response, IF, if it is relevant to the buy.

      So, maybe a keychain, or a matching wallet/credit card holder, may tip the scale to the sale...but if the BUYER has been properly targeted, it wouldn't be a significant push.

      Are these OLD women handbags, so they can carry yardsticks and hammers? Or fashion handbags? Knock offs of famous brands? What do you know about the buyer?

      There is ample evidence that an additional gift can increase sales, more likely to make them stick (fewer refunds), it all depends on the lifetime value of this buyer and what other things may get offered to her/them in the future.

      Are you actually doing anything at this point?

      GordonJ
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  • No, doing only as much as the competition usually leads to average results. To truly succeed, you need to go beyond innovate, add value, or work smarter.
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