Can we improve the Thanks buttton ?

74 replies
This is the problem I have been grappling with and I have
a solution which is currently in operation here at the
forum in Beta mode.

In the real world the way you thank someone will
obviously differ according to what you have received

e.g
- Thanks for that biscuit.
- THANKS a million, million times for buying me a new PC !!!


But in the Warrior forum your 'thanks' only counts as one
extra item in the thanks list.

So here is my idea.

We have different levels/grades of thanks.

For example

1 = useful post
10 = fantastic post which will rocket me to number one in Google

I have a provisional list of the full gradings from 1 to
10 which will be available later.


Now for 2 great ideas

(1) We can now incorporate a much requested feature

Suppose you DON'T like a post

Well you can give it a negative grade e.g

-1 = not useful
-10 = I used your idea and got banned from Google


(2) When you give thanks (+ve or -ve) you will be asked
to supply a reason (it's mandatory).

Now others can come along and look at your reason and
SIMILARLY give a thanks grading and reason to that !

And others can come along and comment on THAT reason and
so on ad infinitum.

All these gradings will be held in the Warrior database
and a complex algorithm will apply a weighting which will
result in your Profile showing your (PTR) Personal Thanks
Rating.

This PTR will become an important figure used in allowing
special privileges and access at the forum


So do you like the idea ?

Well whether you do or don't I'd like to know.

Please hit the Thanks button and, as I am obviously one
of the Beta testers, it will pop up with a request for a
grade and a reason so you can see it in operation and
give me feedback.


Harvey
#buttton #improve
  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Some nice ideas Harvey.

    I just wished some people would use the Thanks button more often, including some of the big shots and large posters on this forum.

    I see many lengthy, useful answers for people going unrewarded by the recipients.

    For some people it seems saying Thanks is a sign of weakness or inferiority.

    Perhaps that's how they live their selfish lives anyway.

    Sam
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    • Profile picture of the author nota-bene
      Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

      Some nice ideas Harvey.

      I just wished some people would use the Thanks button more often, including some of the big shots and large posters on this forum.

      I see many lengthy, useful answers for people going unrewarded by the recipients.

      For some people it seems saying Thanks is a sign of weakness or inferiority.

      That's probably how they live their selfish lives anyway.

      Sam
      I 100% agree! Please accept my thanks for saying exaclty what I would have said
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author pjCheviot
    Banned
    Ooops - didn't see any pop-up, Harvey?

    But - yes - good idea,and as Sam says - it's a pity more people didn't make use of the current one.

    This new version may help ?

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
    Harvey.
    I fully agree.
    You see i really only read a post BECAUSE it interests me, and hence if the post generates some good comments then those that gave good input should be rewarded. free wso's or something.
    or maybe header advertising - sort of like a ranking. and then once you have had your turn on top you must make way for a period of time.
    i will keep an eye on the idea.
    Rob
    Signature
    Just good marketing advice - Business ideas
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  • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
    Thanks: why? just because(+1 to you)

    But what if there is a dispute over a comment on my thanks on the first, second, or even third level of thank you comments?

    Will there be a system in place to allow us to dispute negative thanks? Maybe a "thank you" category right here on the forum, and all of our thank you's and comments can go there.

    And what if the algorithm changes? Won't it totally like, screw up my PTR? I would hate to work super duper hard at building up my PTR only to get Warrior slapped?

    And can I get a review of the system?

    keith
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  • Profile picture of the author CliveG
    Quite frequently you see people thank others in a reply to a post but do not hit the thanks button as well. Sometimes the replies contain only the thanks and add nothing else. But then that counts towards their post count and the thanks button does not.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

      And can I get a review of the system?
      Well there will be guidelines on how to improve your PTR
      (Personal Thanks Rating) and I can see opportunities for
      WSO's here.

      For example Allen has the maximum PTR: 999

      Now if you get thanked by him it's like having a backlink
      from an authority site. It increases your own PTR.

      So a WSO might show ways of getting thanked by Allen -
      such as suggesting improvements to the forum.

      Allen has already thanked this very post (he has the
      option of using a Mute button which does not show) and
      that has rocketed up my own PTR.

      Harvey
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      • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        Well there will be guidelines on how to improve your PTR
        (Personal Thanks Rating) and I can see opportunities for
        WSO's here.

        For example Allen has the maximum PTR: 999

        Now if you get thanked by him it's like having a backlink
        from an authority site. It increases your own PTR.

        So a WSO might show ways of getting thanked by Allen -
        such as suggesting improvements to the forum.

        Allen has already thanked this very post (he has the
        option of using a Mute button which does not show) and
        that has rocketed up my own PTR.

        Harvey
        Got it!! So our goal then would be to increase our PTR rating, so that getting thanked by someone with a high PTR means much more and has more weight.

        Some advanced questions:

        -Does one's start date have any weight in the algorithm? Meaning someone who joined in 2003 have more weight than someone who started this month

        -Does total number of posts(because we all know that more posts=smarter) have any weight


        Well, anyway, I am now working on a Warrior Forum Auto "Thanks" posting bot program that works like SEONuke. It will automatically blast the forum with thanks and comments based on preset qualifiers. I just gotta get a high PTR rating, because I need the Warrior Forum to make my living and a bad score would be simply devastating.

        And as far as Allen goes, a nice box of imported cigars can be arranged for an occasional "thanks".

        keith
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        • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
          Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

          Well, anyway, I am now working on a Warrior Forum Auto "Thanks" posting bot program that works like SEONuke. It will automatically blast the forum with thanks and comments based on preset qualifiers.
          Keith

          Comments like that even if flippant could result in a negative grade for you.

          Not everyone understands when a post is made in jest.

          Harvey
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          • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
            Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

            Keith

            Comments like that even if flippant could result in a negative grade for you.

            Not everyone understands when a post is made in jest.

            Harvey
            Gotcha. Maybe a "made in jest" icon would be a great add-on to the forum? We wouldn't want people to start getting negative feedback for flippant comments.

            We should also have a "dry humor" icon as well, because sometimes threads can get taken seriously even when made in jest...not that that happens often.:rolleyes:

            keith
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Harvey...you're priceless.

              One of a kind.
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              • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
                Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

                Gotcha. Maybe a "made in jest" icon would be a great add-on to the forum? We wouldn't want people to start getting negative feedback for flippant comments.
                Well we certainly don't want more buttons - it just gets confusing.

                My brief was to keep it simple, notice how I have
                introduced this system using only the existing Thanks button.

                In any case the system is self regulating so even if you
                get unmerited negative feedback from a jest remark others
                will counteract that feedback with a positive score in
                your favour.

                Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

                We should also have a "dry humor" icon
                I'm not familiar with that phrase.


                Harvey
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post


              We should also have a "dry humor" icon
              Keith, Harvey is our dry humor icon.

              The king of the "Is he serious about this thread or not?" posts.

              Sometimes, even I can't tell.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
              Well thanks to Harvey for the literary talent (will forward this to Steve Martin's writing team) and to Keith for the heavyweight intellectual analysis. (Probably would have stopped William James cold.)

              The op reminded me of something that struck me about French when we were forced to attempt to learn it in school. They really get into the thank you thing and add a lot of things to it. Some translations are 'a great deal,' 'a thousand times,' and 'infinitely.'

              I personally added one to it when we were working for 'crush, crunch and shove furniture movers.' A Quebecer who taught French part time was holding the door open for 2 of us who were trying to wrestle a couch out to the truck to slam it on the floor there. I said 'merci un peu' (thanks a little) and he automatically corrected me before the joke dawned on him.


              Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

              dry
              It does give new meaning to the desperate phrase in the desert movies, 'water, water, please!'

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              WTF?
              Now there's a button we really need.

              Well, think I'm awake now with a little help from this thread. Enjoyed that, quality material.

              best wishes, lloyd
              .......__o
              .......\<,
              ....( )/ ( )...
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                • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
                  In my Warrior dream world we would definitely have a "WTF" button. Though it's probably a good thing I don't run this place.....if I did we'd have a middle finger button, a mooning button, a throw-up / puking button, 1,027 liquor buttons, a "donate" button, a "I have a crush on you" button, "you suck @#$%" button, about 4 or 5 choice swear words buttons, a "hamster" button, a "smoking cigar" button, a coffee button, and then an open-source button where people could create their own buttons! (Moderated of course).......

                  Yeah, in my dreams.......hahahaha....:rolleyes:

                  RoD "Coffee-Makes-You-Stronger!" CorteZ
                  Signature
                  "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
                  - Jim Rohn
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    Thank you, sir, for your Modest Proposal. Now, if you would be so kind, please pass the Advil.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Sorry Harvey - I can't thank you because you left out two major reasons people hit the thanks button.

      1. Thanks for responding in any way, shape or form to my silly post

      2. Thanks for being on the side of "right" by thanking me for my illustrious position which of course you agree with

      If we are going to give thanks so seriously, don't we need turkeys? Oh, wait....never mind...

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author rana99
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Susan Hope
      Will there be any kind of "Warrior Sandbox" effect?

      Can we also have one small change to the buttons, I would like a purple sparkly one, no wait, purple encrusted with diamantes, not too much to ask because none of this has got complicated yet..

      I feel the need to run away now..
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      • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
        Lol..Harvey...here you go again

        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        Please hit the Thanks button and, as I am obviously one
        of the Beta testers, it will pop up with a request for a
        grade and a reason so you can see it in operation and
        give me feedback.

        Harvey
        As for the comments. I'm not so sure about that. What if somebody game the system..Post negative comments without basis..That can affect one's rep.

        Last thing, I think the technical problem has been fixed with mine..Those who want to test the new feature, just hit the button below to see it

        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        Just a technical problem with the Beta version

        Will be fixed soon

        Harvey
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Just a few simple questions...

    Would being thanked by someone with a PTR of -999 decrease one's current PTR? Or could it be set up to consider the preponderance of Thanks AND Responses down to the 6th level, unless the person is obviously giving the same Thanks to everyone to manipulate their own PTR?

    Once the Beta version goes live, will my Thanks button work just as well as yours does now? Or are there still a few bugs to work out?

    If someone has given lots of +10 Thanks, thereby increasing someone else's PTR (assuming they're weighted appropriately) and the Thanker later gets banned temporarily, will the affected PTRs go down, and then return to the pre-banning level once the bannee returns, or should it only go back up slightly because banning would have an impact on the weight of the Thanks being given?

    Would the Thanks levels of comments be limited, and would responses carry as much weight as Thanks in the algorithm, unless it could be shown that someone has left responses only in an attempt to alter their personal PTR for the purpose of negating positive comments with the underlying goal to make their personal PTR higher than it should be?

    Like I said, just a few simple questions.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Just a few simple questions...

      Would being thanked by someone with a PTR of -999 decrease one's current PTR? Or could it be set up to consider the preponderance of Thanks AND Responses down to the 6th level, unless the person is obviously giving the same Thanks to everyone to manipulate their own PTR?

      Once the Beta version goes live, will my Thanks button work just as well as yours does now? Or are there still a few bugs to work out?

      If someone has given lots of +10 Thanks, thereby increasing someone else's PTR (assuming they're weighted appropriately) and the Thanker later gets banned temporarily, will the affected PTRs go down, and then return to the pre-banning level once the bannee returns, or should it only go back up slightly because banning would have an impact on the weight of the Thanks being given?

      Would the Thanks levels of comments be limited, and would responses carry as much weight as Thanks in the algorithm, unless it could be shown that someone has left responses only in an attempt to alter their personal PTR for the purpose of negating positive comments with the underlying goal to make their personal PTR higher than it should be?

      Like I said, just a few simple questions.

      All the best,
      Michael

      WTF?

      Michael, are you off your meds?
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        WTF?

        Michael, are you off your meds?
        No, Steven, these are the serious questions I need answered before I can decide if I like the idea, unless it would be possible to make manipulation of the PTR system detectable, and punishible.

        Considering how simple my questions were, I'm kind of surprised Harvey hasn't responded yet.

        Which brings me to another question...

        If you later decide that the Thanks and/or responses to Thanks (down to any level) you have given need to be changed, would it be better to allow editing of Thanks or could we just change our Thanks and/or comments at a lower level to make up for our previously incorrect assessment of someone else's post or comments?

        Like I said, simple.

        ~M~
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I like the way it is now: simple and easy. Personally, I think just saying "thank you", for whatever reason, using the thank you link is enough in most cases. I'd rather see the buy a beverage icon come back as I miss buying my fellow Warriors and Warrioresses some suds...........

    RoD
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    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      To familiarize yourselves with the new system
      here's a working example of grades I have awarded

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Harvey...you're priceless.
      One of a kind.
      Grade: 8/10

      Originally Posted by rana99 View Post

      It's depend on your feeling.
      Grade: -3/10


      Harvey
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Due to my incredibly insightful questions, I am now a Beta tester, too.

    However...it seems as though the feature will only be activated after receiving a random number of Thanks first.

    Looking forward to the results!

    All the best,
    Michael
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • I've got it.
      Harvey can rate all posts on the forum using a measure of what he thinks is the post's QUALITY.
      We can call it a "Harvey Score".

      This post has a Harvey Score of 1/10 and I may be subject to a lifetime ban. It depends on Harvey's secret Quality Alogorithm.

      Try the veal!
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Considering how simple my questions were, I'm kind of surprised Harvey hasn't responded yet.
      Michael

      I've passed them on to my Development team who will
      review them for inclusion in Release 2.


      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Due to my incredibly insightful questions, I am now a Beta tester, too.

      However...it seems as though the feature will only be activated after receiving a random number of Thanks first.
      Not quite correct. If you look in your PTR Control Panel
      you will see that your Beta Tester status is awaiting approval.


      Harvey
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        Michael

        I've passed them on to my Development team who will
        review them for inclusion in Release 2.



        Not quite correct. If you look in your PTR Control Panel
        you will see that your Beta Tester status is awaiting approval.


        Harvey
        People are going to LOVE Release 2 then!

        Ah, I see it now. You're right, it's awaiting approval. Hopefully others will check their PTR Control Panel as well. It's too good of a feature to pass up.

        Thanks again for a marvelous addition to the forum.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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        • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
          Ok, so here's the rule:

          If you Thank me, I'll Thank you

          But who does the first Thanks?

          Sam
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          • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
            Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

            Ok, so here's the rule:

            If you Thank me, I'll Thank you

            But who does the first Thanks?

            Sam
            I think "thank bribery" is unacceptable and warrants a negative PTR. Buying thanks is also unacceptable.

            keith
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            • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
              Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

              I think "thank bribery" is unacceptable and warrants a negative PTR. Buying thanks is also unacceptable.

              keith

              What about "High-Fives" or perhaps a Hug instead?
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              • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
                I don't lke the negativity creeping into the idea. It only encourages people to be negative.
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                Started this stuff 2009. Time is what will teach you the skills you need.

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              • Profile picture of the author Adam Carn
                Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

                What about "High-Fives" or perhaps a Hug instead?
                A hug button, sounds good.

                Adam
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                Taking a break...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    Harvey and Michael, thank you so much for answering my PMs regarding becoming a PTR beta tester. You've been very helpful.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny
    Great idea
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    >>> Real Product Reviews <<<

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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
    I think the idea is generally sound, but a range from -10 to +10 is waaaay overkill.

    How do you determine whether something is a 6 or a 7? And does it make sense to spend any time pondering this?

    I imagine that a large amount of negative ratings will be -10, because people are bound to be emotional when they feel the need to rate negatively.
    And I can also imagine that problems with "unwritten rules" could emerge. Maybe it would amount to almost an insult to only give a +1 or +2, depending on how things develop.

    With something like this, it's better to keep things simple.

    Long story short: I would suggest a range of -2 to +2 or, at most, -3 to +3.

    -2 = Ban candidate
    -1 = Inapropriate/rude comment
    0 = nothing
    +1 = Thanks!
    +2 = Give this man/woman a medal for extraordinary effort!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my request for a sarcastic thanks button.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightowl
    Is this for real? Why change anything? The more complicated this becomes, the easier it will be for some to game the system. I also don't like the "negative thanks" part. If a member thinks a post is poor, then a post explaining why is enough.

    What we have now works. Maybe not perfectly (as was pointed out above, not everyone gives a "thank you"), but it's sufficient.

    - Nightowl
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Just wanted everyone to know that I'm a beta tester for the new "thanks for thanking" button - give it a try:

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  • Profile picture of the author Trixxie12
    Nice idea! I wish people would start using the "Thanks" button more often tho instead of just saying "Thanks" etc..
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  • Then I could create High PTR User names and sell them on DP. That way scammers can buy them and reak havoc on WF.

    Or, I could start a PTR Wheel of high PTR screen names linked together to create a super network of authority PTR's. Then, charge people for a "Thanks."

    I am liking the monetization that this brings to the WF.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amitywill
    I think the +10 -10 thing is far too complicated. I would like to see
    something like on youtube. I.e if you like the post then give it a thumbs
    up and a thanks and if you don't like the post then give it a thumbs down.

    It works for the almighty You Tube and I think it would be great here!

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Harvey, I think most of what you want could be done with adaptations from the Slashdot moderation system. As they explain it at http://slashdot.org/faq/com-mod.shtml :

    As you might have noticed, Slashdot gets a lot of comments. Thousands a day. Tens of thousands a month. At any given time, the database holds 50,000+ comments. A single story might have a thousand replies- and let's be realistic: Not all of the comments are that great. In fact, some are down right terrible, but others are truly gems.
    The moderation system is designed to sort the gems and the crap from the steady stream of information that flows through the pipe. And wherever possible, it tries to make the readers of the site take on the responsibility.
    The goal is that each reader will be able to read Slashdot at a level that they find appropriate. The impatient can read nothing at all but the original stories. Some will only want to read the highest rated of comments, some will want to eliminate anonymous posts, and others will want to read every last drip of data, from the First Posts! to the spam.

    When moderators are given access, they are given a number of points of influence to play with. Each comment they moderate deducts a point. When they run out of points, they are done serving until next time it is their turn.
    Moderation takes place by selecting an adjective from a drop down list that appears next to comments containing descriptive words like "Flamebait" or "Informative." Bad words will reduce the comment's score by a single point, and good words increase a comment's score by a single point. All comments are scored on an absolute scale from -1 to 5. Logged-in users start at 1 (although this can vary from 0 to 2 based on their karma) and anonymous users start at 0.
    Moderators can not participate in the same discussion as both a moderator and a poster. This is to prevent abuses, and while it is one of the more controversial aspects of the system, I'm sticking to it. There are enough lurkers that moderate that, if you want to post, feel free.
    Moderation points expire after 3 days if they are left unused. You then go back into the pool and might someday be given access again.
    Concentrate more on promoting than on demoting. The real goal here is to find the juicy good stuff and let others read it. Do not promote personal agendas. Do not let your opinions factor in. Try to be impartial about this. Simply disagreeing with a comment is not a valid reason to mark it down. Likewise, agreeing with a comment is not a valid reason to mark it up. The goal here is to share ideas. To sift through the haystack and find needles. And to keep the children who like to spam Slashdot in check.


    What do the choices in the moderation drop-down boxes mean?

    • Normal -- This is the default setting attached to every comment when you have moderation privileges. Normally, you should not need to actually select this option, but if your mouse slips and you accidentally moderate up or down a comment you didn't mean to, you can undo that mistake by choosing Normal before you hit the "Moderate" button.
    • Offtopic -- A comment which has nothing to do with the story it's linked to (song lyrics, obscene ascii art, comments about another topic entirely) is Offtopic.
    • Flamebait -- Flamebait refers to comments whose sole purpose is to insult and enrage. If someone is not-so-subtly picking a fight (racial insults are a dead giveaway), it's Flamebait.
    • Troll -- A Troll is similar to Flamebait, but slightly more refined. This is a prank comment intended to provoke indignant (or just confused) responses. A Troll might mix up vital facts or otherwise distort reality, to make other readers react with helpful "corrections." Trolling is the online equivalent of intentionally dialing wrong numbers just to waste other people's time.
    • Redundant -- Redundant posts are ones which add no new information, but instead take up space with repeating information either in the Slashdot post, the attached links, or lots of previous comments. For instance, some posters cut and paste otherwise legitimate comments in multiple places in the same discussion; the pasted versions are Redundant.
    • Insightful -- An Insightful statement makes you think, puts a new spin on a given story (or aspect of a story). An analogy you hadn't thought of, or a telling counterexample, are examples of Insightful comments.
    • Interesting -- If you believe a comment to be Interesting (and it's not mostly Redundant, Offtopic, or otherwise lame), it is.
    • Informative -- Often comments add new information to explain the circumstances hinted at by a particular story, fill in "The Other Side" of an argument, provide specifications to a product described too vaguely elsewhere, etc. Such comments are Informative.
    • Funny -- Think of Funny as being a good moderation choice if you actually think the comment is funny, not just because it seems intended to be. Not every knock-knock joke is Funny.
    • Overrated -- Sometimes you'll run into a comment which for whatever reason has been moderated out of proportion -- this probably means several moderators saw it at nearly the same time, thought it was Funny, Insightful etc, and their scores added together exaggerate its relative merit. (A knock-knock joke at +5, Funny) Such a comment is Overrated. It's not knocking the original poster to say so, but it's probably better to spend your mod points on comments which are deserving of being moderated up.
    • Underrated -- Likewise, some comments get smashed lower than they perhaps deserve by overzealous moderators. If you moderate a comment as Underrated, you're saying that it deserves to be read by more people than will see it at its current score. As with Overrated, if you can think of a more specific moderation reason, do so -- if a comment has already been moderated with an appropriate label though, and you just want to indicate that it deserves greater visibility, that's what Underrated is for. However, if a comment is labeled with a fitting (negative) label, choosing Underrated isn't such a great idea, because you could end up with contradictions like "+5, Flamebait."
    Each post on Slashdot gets a score that go up to 5. Readers can choose what level of posts they see. If you read at 5, you see only what the community has voted as the cream of the crop. If you read at 3, you'll see a few tangents. If you read at 0, you'll run away from the computer screaming. But I'm not sure if that would serve the WF, because here, sometimes the tangents turn out to take the topic in a positive new direction.

    Slashdot's source code is openly available with GPL licensing.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Instructor
    I didn't get a pop-up because it said that I wasn't upgraded to full member status.

    Then redirected me a the war room sales letter even though I am already a member.

    And if that wasn't strange enough the Thanks showed up.

    Any suggestions?
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Amitywill View Post

      It works for the almighty You Tube and I think it would be great here!
      Originally Posted by Mr. Enthusiastic View Post

      Harvey, I think most of what you want could be done with adaptations from the Slashdot moderation system.
      And how do you know that YouTube and Slashdot are not watching
      developments here very, very closely ?

      Harvey
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        And how do you know that YouTube and Slashdot are not watching
        developments here very, very closely ?
        The Slashdot community goes its own way without too much reference to the rest of the world. As for YouTube and its owner Google, chances are pretty good that somebody in market research regularly comes through the Alexa top 1000 for ideas. But I don't think they would investigate a conversation about a potential new moderation system, they'd only notice after any new system was up and running and while.

        Of course YouTube could add Thanks For Thanking tomorrow!
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        • Profile picture of the author vicone
          Amazon is much slicker and more obvious in its ratings. Would you have the ratings apply to the thread as whole, though, or to the individual posts as Harvey described?
          It would apply to individual posts, although it would be possible to have a separate rating for the thread itself. I believe a thread rating does, or used to, exist.

          Ivan
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            I really do not want to cause any controversy at all, however, I have seen, what in my opinion, is a lot of arguing and WF slaps in a lot of threads and it seems to me that this new system could possibly be an invitation for more bashing.

            As a matter of fact, it reminds me of a book we had to read in grade school where this one little girl felt angry for being left out, so she started a rating system on her classmates and friends and ended up being even less appreciated more excluded...her name was Ramona...she was immature...

            I give it a thumbs down, but it doesn't matter that much because I am fairly new here, and don't carry much weight anyway!

            Thank you for taking the initiative to bring forth new ideas though, that takes courage and that is an admirable quality!

            MissTerraK
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  • Profile picture of the author TimGross
    Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

    Re: Can we improve the Thanks buttton ?
    We can improve how we spell "button", that's a start at least...

    (Sorry Harvey, I tried to stop myself but I couldn't)

    I've thought about the fact that the Thanks button really doesn't cover all the bases, but after reading everyone's feedback in the thread it seems like it may be too complicated an issue to tackle.

    Maybe peace in the Middle East, THEN the perfect WF Thanks Button?

    Edit add: How about for starters having forum users with "War Room Member" under their name have their Thanks submissions count for more? Because frankly, in general... it does.

    Maybe 20 Newbies clicking "Thanks" after someone posts a wild-eyed scheme that probably never worked for them in the first place shouldn't count as much as 2 or 3 War Room Members clicking "Thanks" on an actually useful post (Heck, maybe it'd even make more War Room sales as a side effect...)
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    • Profile picture of the author vicone
      Although I like the basic idea of improving the thanks/rating system, it seems to me that the original proposal is too complicated and needs to be simplified.

      I would prefer something that resembles the five star system which Amazon uses for its product reviews. Everyone could be encouraged to give a ratings based on a 5 star system. 1 star would naturally mean "not so hot"or "not very helpful". 5 stars would be a "great" or "top rating". The software could then just average the number of stars given as for a product review and an overall average rating would be shown for that post.

      Ivan
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
        Originally Posted by vicone View Post

        I would prefer something that resembles the five star system which Amazon uses for its product reviews... The software could then just average the number of stars given as for a product review and an overall average rating would be shown for that post.
        I like that, Ivan. I happened to think of a geeky scoring system from a geeky site, but Amazon is much slicker and more obvious in its ratings. Would you have the ratings apply to the thread as whole, though, or to the individual posts as Harvey described?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      I don't mean to sound like I'm opposed to the idea, but I do have some concerns. Just off the top of my head, some potential problems you may want to consider (if you haven't already, of course):

      1. This first concern is minor, but people may thank everybody for everything to influence others into thanking them for their own posts...reciprocal thanking is highly probable and would skew the ratings. There's a term for this, but I can't recall what it is at the moment (social reciprocity, maybe). I read about it in Robert Cialdini's book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. That's an excellent read for marketers, by the way.

      2. Of more concern is the negative voting. One of the nice things about the forum is that most of us get along reasonably well most of the time. By adding negative voting, which will effectively be the same as encouraging negative voting and comments to some, the possibility for "in-fighting" could well increase. Even if the criticism is constructive, not everyone takes criticism well. We all know that. Isn't an absence of thanks evidence enough that a post wasn't anything special?

      Another possible negative consequence is the probability that some people will carry a grudge, consciously or subconciously, over votes against them that they think are unfair or unjustified, and it will influence their votes and comments toward those whom they hold the grudge against, unfairly skewing the persons score.

      3. If a person has been thanked several times but makes one dumb post, he/she could receive an inordinate amount of critical ratings that would skew his or her score. Is this fair? Are several positive ratings less valuable because of one "oops" post? I just see the the negative voting based more on emotions than reason, and that is asking for trouble.

      As I see it, incorporating negative voting and comments is handing people a dividing line to place between themselves and others. Is that what we ultimately want here? Aren't there enough dividing lines already? If the intent is to increase the quality of the posts, has anyone considered that, instead, it may intimidate people not to post at all for fear of being voted against? There are plenty of lurkers here now, you could easily have more lurkers and fewer contributors.

      At this point I'd have to say the positive scale is fine, but I think the negative ratings is just asking for trouble, perhaps big trouble. I've seen a smaller forum torn apart and ruined by a feud that started between two very small groups that eventually sucked enough people into taking sides that the forum never recovered. Two years later that forum was still nothing but a place to go to quarrel with people.

      Sorry for the long post, but if this isn't well-thought out and implemented even better, I'm afraid it may create false motivations for certain actions that would be detrimental to the forum. If you include the negative scale, perhaps a better name for it would be Pandora's button, because you never know what will come from opening that box up.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author consultcode1
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
        Originally Posted by consultcode1 View Post

        I agree with you!!
        Anyone specific? Or the group as a whole?
        Including the differing opinions?

        Impressive! A multilayered, blanket agreement of differing opinions on a complex and diverse subject brought about by a humorous post.
        Signature
        eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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        • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
          Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

          Anyone specific? Or the group as a whole?
          Including the differing opinions?

          Impressive! A multilayered, blanket agreement of differing opinions on a complex and diverse subject brought about by a humorous post.
          I believe in accordance with the new PTR system, that post would constitute a -6 on the scale of useful posts. This would be a devastating blow to those with a small PTR score, and will most likely be very hard to overcome.

          I think people need to start thinking about their posts now before replying as the after effects can be simply catastrophic to their ability to make money.

          Although, after analyzing the system(limited of course) I have a WSO upcoming on "How to repair bad PTR scores". I cannot divulge too much here though...

          keith
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      We can improve how we spell "button", that's a start at least...
      Oh dear - I'm always careful to spell check my postings
      but somehow missed out this time on the title.

      However that is not an excuse and as correct spelling
      is going to be an important requirement in future
      I have decided to penalize myself and have deducted
      10 marks from my PTR score.

      Harvey
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Here's a neat google trick I have discovered how to search by number of thanks...

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following 101..10000 Users Say Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following 76..100 Users Say Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following 51..75 Users Say Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following 26..50 Users Say Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following 11..25 Users Say Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following 2..10 Users Say Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22

    site:warriorforum.com "The Following User Says Thank You to *"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...nk+You+to+*%22
    Signature

    P.S.

    Join The Future: Telekinetic Marketing

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  • Profile picture of the author SantiSantana
    I tried reading the whole thread. I promise I did, but after the second string if Michael Oksa´s technicalities of the matter two things happened:

    1.- I got lost.
    2.- I got thinking this whole thing might actually be bad for the forum, as in a lot of people will now be motivated mostly by increasing that ranking and kicking out the wrong doers.

    You might think I´ve gone off my trolley with that last statement but I can´t help thinking about a Digg story in which somebody in the states ( the brother of a baseball or football team, i really can´t remember now) got banned for manipulating the system.

    I seem to recall his apology letter explaining how he just wanted to keep up with the big hitters (posters) and started using software as he could not handle it on his own and some other breach of Digg´s ToS. It worries me that the dynamics of the whole forum might change and not necessarily for the best.

    Then again I could be totally wrong and this could be the spark that sets this forum on fire (even more if that´s possible).

    I guess what i really fear here is human nature. Hope I´m wrong.
    Signature

    Writer for hire

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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    I can't decide if I want to join this thread from the tongue-in-cheek side or the serious side.
    Signature
    "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
    ~ Zig Ziglar
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

      I can't decide if I want to join this thread from the tongue-in-cheek side or the serious side.
      LOL! I love it! Humor is a very good quality as well!

      MissTerraK
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  • Profile picture of the author sainshea
    surely, it will make the forum more lively
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  • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
    I know I'm relatively new here and all, but I have wanted to thank a number of people but couldn't find a Thank button. Is it me or am I not allowed to thank someone until I have x number of posts? What's a guy have to do to thank someone around here? Write it down in a post?
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by marhamat View Post

      I know I'm relatively new here and all, but I have wanted to thank a number of people but couldn't find a Thank button. Is it me or am I not allowed to thank someone until I have x number of posts? What's a guy have to do to thank someone around here? Write it down in a post?
      Your ability to thank people has nothing to do with the number of posts you have amassed. When you join the Warrior Forum (paid version) a link will be made to your PayPal account.

      Only when the owner of the Warrior Forum can see that you are making at least $1000 per week will the ability to thank people be opened up to you.

      There will be other priviledges too, but I'm sworn to secrecy about them for now.

      Martin
      Signature
      Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        There will be other priviledges too, but I'm sworn to secrecy about them for now.
        Martin

        As part of the oath to maintain secrecy you and others have
        been given a number of false statements along with the true
        ones.

        As a result I am unable to comment on the veracity of the
        figure you have supplied in the following statement
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        Only when the owner of the Warrior Forum can see that you are making at least $1000 per week will the ability to thank people be opened up to you.
        Harvey
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      • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        Your ability to thank people has nothing to do with the number of posts you have amassed. When you join the Warrior Forum (paid version) a link will be made to your PayPal account.

        Only when the owner of the Warrior Forum can see that you are making at least $1000 per week will the ability to thank people be opened up to you.

        There will be other priviledges too, but I'm sworn to secrecy about them for now.

        Martin
        Not sure if this warrants a "Tongue in Cheek Comment," "Thanks," or "Dry Sarcasm" button.
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  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
    I can't tell if Harvey's suggestion is legitimate or not. Sorry.

    Here are a few of my own observations:

    * a lot of people will put up a post that says "Thanks!" and not click the (Thanks) button. The software should be set so if there are under 10 words in a reply and "thanks" is found, it should put up a dialog box that says, "Are you trying to thank this person? If so, please click the (Thanks) button!"

    * the average ratio between "Thanked" and "Posts" is under 10%, usually around 3-5%. That would seem to be a meaningful metric, no? I mean, if someone has <5% "Thankedosts ratio", then what are they posting so much about that nobody seems to find useful?

    * people who give "stuff" away tend to get a TON of "thanks". I don't see any correlation between that kind of "thanks" and what you get for taking the time to help someone solve a particularly vexing or confusing problem.

    * people tend to get value from replies to other people's questions, but they don't bother to click the (Thanks) button because it makes them look like they're "evesdropping", which may be common on forums but generally considered socially unacceptable, so they don't want it known they were actually doing it.

    Experts Exchange has an interesting way of scoring answers to questions. So does Yahoo Answers.

    People who give stuff away in these contexts wouldn't get any points simply for being generous. But people who end up accumulating lots of points for being helpful get some benefits and added visibility.


    Opening up the discussion a little bit, suppose everybody were given 100 points when they join.

    Each post and PM costs a point.

    You can earn points by posting stuff where people click the (Thanks) button. It doesn't cost anything to click the (Thanks) button, so folks would think twice about making a POST that says "Thanks" rather than hitting that button. People who get the most "Thanks" for a reply in a given thread, or are ranked as "the best answer", could get extra points.

    Infractions cost points (5 or 10).

    Eliminate the fee for posting WSOs and charge a certain number of points. Here's an idea: give away something to get a bunch of points so you can then post a WSO!

    (The constant churn in the WSO section annoys the heck out of me! It's like going to the grocery store and finding they've re-arranged everything every time you go based on some random criteria. One thing is clear: the Cherrios keep showing up right in front of the door every Tuesday morning. Why IS that? People won't bother using the search function to find answers to questions, but they'll sure spend a lot of time digging through the WSO section looking for deals! If it cost "points" that cannot be bought, I think the churn would stop and sanity would return to the WSO section. Used to be a time things would stay on the front page for days. Now it's more like 4 hours. In 2 days you're on Page 3 or 4.)

    Just my own random thoughts.
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  • Profile picture of the author pjCheviot
    Banned
    Harvey

    I reckon you should incorporate a "You're Welcome" button too, closely followed by "It's a Pleasure" etc etc

    By the way I'm almost finished that "Warrior Forum Auto Thanks posting bot program" that Keith mentioned earlier - spent the last 24 hours working solidly on it - after expenses, I will share my massive earnings (and PRT) with Keith in a new JV program.

    Keep up the good work, Harvey!
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by pjCheviot View Post

      "I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left!"
      Completely OT, but just spotted your sig and had to comment... AWESOME!!!

      What's "thanks for a great sig" on the thankometer?
      Signature
      eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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      • Profile picture of the author pjCheviot
        Banned
        Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

        Completely OT, but just spotted your sig and had to comment... AWESOME!!!
        Cheers, Karl - I noticed your reference to Seasick Steve in another post - he made a bob or two out of that title!
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Maybe we could devise a program under the present system where the Warrior with the most thanks for the month can become the Ambassador of Thanks for the following month. This individual would have forum power second only to admin dude.

    The Thanks Ambassador could grant special favors like giving people free WSOs and Classified Ads. He could recommend products in regular threads that would include affiliate links without having them being Spam and grant that privilege to others. He could also openly chastise other members, no matter how popular or powerful they may be for writing posts that waste space and bandwidth.

    And his thanks power would be multiplied by 10, meaning that when he clicked the thanks button the member got an automatic 10 thank yous and a date with either Paris Hilton or Brad Pitt. (Brad seems like he could use a break from all that celebrity adoption daddy stuff anyway)

    In the real world The Ambassador of Thanks might use the power in an evil way and become secretly involved in influence peddling sorta like the guys and gals in Washington. But not here. The system will be set up so only Warriors of the utmost character and integrity would even come close to getting the revered distinction for a month.

    That's the kind of thanks system I'd like to see. One can only dream...
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