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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:02 PM   #751
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by MurphSmurf View Post

Would you guys mind answering a couple questions of mine?



Thanks.
1. Google local is one place to rank for a local business, but you can get more for a business than that. The top organic listing still produces lots of clicks. You can also get them multiple maps listings - look for the WSO Google Maps Cash for how. They can also get more in PPC. Total domination=total credibility.

You may also be thinking there is just one keyword to rank for. How untrue for most businesses. A typical company could benefit from being in 5-10 different keywords. You really have to probe their breadth of products and services and understand their customer's needs.

For example, one of my clients sells "heat registers" - that is the formal name. But they market online to people looking for "Air Vents" "Air Vent Covers" "Return Air Vents" "Heat Grilles" and a bunch of other terms... to sell the same thing! Imagine if your client has many products or services...

2. Rural is tough. My experience has been that there isn't much search inventory to find for your clients, and PER CAPITA there is less adoption of search in general. People are more likely to use word of mouth or the yellow pages. In general, the YP companies have been at selling advertising to local businesses WAY longer than any of us have- check their pricing for a full page ad between a rural market and a major metro. Could be $500/month vs $12,000 month in some dramatic cases... you'll have to price SEO accordingly.

The other thing about rural or smaller towns is that frankly most people are there to exist, or dare I say coast. They want to make a living and enjoy their family and friends. Nothing in the world wrong with that, I moved to a smaller city myself after years in LA and Seattle. The mindset is different and typically people aren't looking to massively grow their businesses or compete heavily.

Now, there may be some businesses that sell nationally located in VERY small towns. I've got an appt next week with a guy in a town two hours away from me that sells a niche plastics product nationwide. He is the largest dealer on the west coast for this niche. His town's population: 598 people. This company has a sucky web site and no marketing, yet does over $1M in business via the web and phone orders. Nowhere in search. Do you think I can help them? I'm planning on talking about an equity deal because I think I can make a huge impact.

The good thing about smaller markets is that people talk, and they really need people like you. I have done ZERO marketing for myself, have been in business for over a year on my own with rent and an assistant, everything has come in from referrals. I turned down 2 jobs last week.

You can't charge an arm and a leg out of the gates, but you can make yourself have a good income serving local businesses to their satisfaction. If you want to go big in a small market, pick a niche, offer your services nationally to members of that niche, and travel to them.

My $.02
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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:03 PM   #752
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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I see many people that want to start an offline biz but yet are putting these mental roadblocks.

I can sorta of understand how maybe many people are uncomfortable with talking to business owners. Hell its very similar to loosing your virginity. The first and sometimes even the second was difficult but once you gain your confidence your like a rock star.

I recommend first starting with your sphere of influence first. Talk to your accountant, see if they need help improving their business. Talk to your dentist. How about the owner of your child's daycare. Maybe even your barber? Start off with people you see on a regular basis.

Once you work them you can gain your confidence. Remember you know more than 95% percent of the people. Even the business's so called "web Guy". LOL those are my favorite.

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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:07 PM   #753
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by reilly3000 View Post

istock, can I ask you what you charge for managing a facebook fan page? what do you include with it?

FYI I did a fan page for a business including setup, one FBML custom page, and 2 hours of training and social media consulting for $300. The client was happy and has 90+ fans in a month. Guys, was I too cheap or too pricey?
I'd go at least $1k for something like that.

But that's just me.

What would you do IF you could do it?
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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:33 PM   #754
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by 12as24 View Post

I have a couple of questions regarding the services some people are providing to the businesses:

-Why don't you offer performance-based commission instead of a steady monthly rate? With generating $1 million in value, you can easily live off of ONE CLIENT at a 15% commission rate. I'm surprised people haven't suggested this yet, it would provide more focus and direction on your part towards four or five clients as well.

Should you charge a performance-based commission?

You certainly CAN do that but the way you do it is very important.

First you should always charge your clients an upfront fee before you do any work.

And ideally that upfront free should be enough that if you never get paid another cent you're happy doing the initial work.

Any performance fee should be on top of your initial upfront fees and project fees.

There are 2 reasons for this:

# 1: You get paid for the work you do. Kind of obvious but you'd be amazed how many people cling to the fantasy that a business owner is going to pay them AFTER they get results.

In most cases you're going to be waiting a looong time for that.


# 2: If you don't charge a business owner upfront they won't be committed to making your project together work.

The mental process a business owner goes through deciding to write you a check is absolutely vital for them to mentally decide to work with you and do what's necessary to make your project work for them.

Anyone who has tried to work on these pay per profit deals with nothing upfront will tell you their stories of business owners who just didn't do their part to make something work.

When a large chunk of their money is on the line it's amazing how much more committed they are to making things work.


To get a business owner to write you a check you need to learn how to establish the dollar value of your service with them.

Of all the skills you develop that's the second most important...right after talking to business owners in the first place.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:35 PM   #755
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by DHPeck View Post

While we are on the subject of Business Cards....

How many of you have a completely empty backside?? ... It is highly likely that what you put on that backside will generate far more response than your name, and your pretty logo.

How many of you have a VistaPrint logo on the back of your card? ....I hope to god I don't have to explain why that is a bad thing. ( and by bad, I really mean...the stupidest thing you could ever do as a professional)

I'll share my business card strategy as it has served me well. I have several business cards, each one taylored to a specific target type. While my title is a definitive statement of what I do, I go into it with the idea of crafting a card that will generate business for me when in case its 6 months later, they guy may have forgotten much about me, and he's holding not only MY card, but my competitors cards.

In that moment, my business card has to go to battle for me and kick Shizass.

I've used the back space of my card to put an industry related thought provoking factoid, or an incentive. I will mention a special exclusive newsletter, I will mention information on my site or a useful interactive utility. I will use testimonials, or mention additional benefits of doing busines with me...especially where I know I've got an insider industry angle on something. I will use the words of his language and push those special buttons.

I think of my business card as a postcard or a print ad rather than a name tag.

Where I really think I've noticed a difference in my BC card response is when I have been really aggressive in distributing them. I am not always dilligent but when I start leaving them everywhere and including them in correspondence, I see more result.
If you can give 5 away per day that is about 1200 prospect touches in a year. This is important for your clients as well.

Business cards are powerful, inexpensive and they are severely underutilized. Hopefully these ideas will spark even more ideas for you guys.

Respectfully,

Doran P
I've always learned that you need to put something on your business card (on the back) that makes it worth keeping. I've struggled with this in the past as well.

The best example of this that I have ever seen was a home inspector and he had a little chart with the years at the top, and a list of building materials down the side. When I was buying a lot of real estate in a past life, I always had his business card handy because I could look at the back and see what year of house I was considering buying and be able to tell exactly what materials were behind the walls. This was incredibly valuable. And because of that, he got a lot of my business for inspections.

One of the ones I like right now is...

There are only three ways to grow your business:

(1) Increase your number of clients
(2) Increase the average size of the sale per client
(3) Increase the number of times clients return and buy again.


There's some really valuable truth behind that, but I still feel that it doesn't have the sticking power that the home inspector had.

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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:43 PM   #756
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hi Andrew,

Understand that you mention upfront is important. But should we give them a agreement / contract before having the check to your wallet?

I can't imagine that any businessman will be happy to give you the check first before having any paperworks to sign. Or just me?

I thought that having checks need maybe 1-2 meeting session [Which you will bring your paperworks for them to sign]

Correct me if i am wrong about this whole things..

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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:46 PM   #757
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Thomas W View Post

I see many people that want to start an offline biz but yet are putting these mental roadblocks.

I can sorta of understand how maybe many people are uncomfortable with talking to business owners. Hell its very similar to loosing your virginity. The first and sometimes even the second was difficult but once you gain your confidence your like a rock star.

I recommend first starting with your sphere of influence first. Talk to your accountant, see if they need help improving their business. Talk to your dentist. How about the owner of your child's daycare. Maybe even your barber? Start off with people you see on a regular basis.

Once you work them you can gain your confidence. Remember you know more than 95% percent of the people. Even the business's so called "web Guy". LOL those are my favorite.
Every "no" you hear means that you are one step closer to getting that "yes". It's all a numbers game.

As has been said before in this thread, Warriors know more than 90% of the business owners that are out there operating.

If you haven't read Michael Gerber's E-Myth Revisited, I HIGHLY recommend it. The majority of business owners are technicians, who got into business because they thought they could do it better. Most of them lack entrepreneurial skills (business building methods, marketing strategies, etc).

Be confident when you go out and talk to them. Don't be scared to share your wealth of knowledge. In fact I usually give away all of my best kept secrets. This positions me as the expert. And these business owners are usually too busy or too lazy to implement your ideas. That's where I come in, and do it for them.

That's usually my approach. Works for me.

As Dexx said in a previous post, it's not uncommon to spend 4, 6, even 8 hours in total in meetings with a client before they write the check. But after you invest that time with them, they're itchin' to go.

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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:50 PM   #758
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Spark View Post

Hi Andrew,

Understand that you mention upfront is important. But should we give them a agreement / contract before having the check to your wallet?

I can't imagine that any businessman will be happy to give you the check first before having any paperworks to sign. Or just me?

I thought that having checks need maybe 1-2 meeting session [Which you will bring your paperworks for them to sign]

Correct me if i am wrong about this whole things..
Hey Spark,

For me, it takes time to write out an agreement. I don't like to waste my time, so if I'm not doing business with them, I don't want to spend time upfront doing it. I tell them that I don't do any work with out payment in advance, and as soon as I receive payment, then I do the agreement. We've already outlined how we will be working together verbally, so it's just a matter of putting that info in writing at that point.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jeff.

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Unread 31st Jan 2010, 11:56 PM   #759
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hi Jeff,

Really appreciate your help on this. You mean it's better for us to talk to them regarding the marketing ideas first. After which only when they make the payment upfront. Then we shall write the agreement that we need to during the talk?

Because i was thinking of showing them the marketing map [Ideas / Packages / etc] first and once they agree about it. I will write a agreement and ask them for the upfront before making any process.

Am i right to say that?

Originally Posted by MarketingNinja View Post

Hey Spark,

For me, it takes time to write out an agreement. I don't like to waste my time, so if I'm not doing business with them, I don't want to spend time upfront doing it. I tell them that I don't do any work with out payment in advance, and as soon as I receive payment, then I do the agreement. We've already outlined how we will be working together verbally, so it's just a matter of putting that info in writing at that point.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jeff.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:01 AM   #760
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Spark View Post

Hi Andrew,

Understand that you mention upfront is important. But should we give them a agreement / contract before having the check to your wallet?

I can't imagine that any businessman will be happy to give you the check first before having any paperworks to sign. Or just me?

I thought that having checks need maybe 1-2 meeting session [Which you will bring your paperworks for them to sign]

Correct me if i am wrong about this whole things..



It does depend on how much you're charging and I'm not giving you legal advice but I have never made a business owner sign anything and I've charged 5 figure fees.

Keep in mind I'm charging enough upfront that it doesn't matter if I get paid another cent...I'm happy to do the work.

You should have something written down that explains exactly what you'll do, in what time frame, what's expected of you and what's expected of the business owner.

And it should be very clear.

Often I do that in an email.

You do have to keep in mind that if someone is going to screw you're they're going to do it with or without a written contract.

The key is to deal with honest business owners and avoid the dishonest ones.

And to charge enough upfront so that you can't really lose.

For most people starting in this niche their upfront fee is so small that business owners will get nervous if they're asked to sign anything.

Most business owners are used to signing checks for $500 to $2,500+ (depending on the size of their business).

A lot of the problems or reservations you think business owners will have about paying you only exist in your mind.

After you've collected a few checks your view point will change...lol.

If you want to get paid you do need to establish the potential value of your service with a business owner.

That's a big key that's rarely mentioned and something we go into tremendous detail abnout at offlinebiz.com (it's a topic that literally takes a full book of information to cover properly.)

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:18 AM   #761
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hey everyone,
About time I chimed in here.

Just like everyone else, I'm getting an AMAZING education from this thread--and I want to thank everyone here for your generosity. A lot of you have really contributed, and I'm not really sure how I could thank AP enough--you've redefined the whole concept of giving to the Warrior Forum. And it looks like some real newbs are already having success with your suggestions and contagious confidence.

Anyhow, on to my question or suggestion. I've been rolling it over in my mind and was curious if anyone thought about offering to work with a client and not charge an upfront fee but working only for a percentage of increased profits? I know some have discussed percentages, but I'm not sure if this particular approach has been mentioned--I've been trying to keep up with the thread but I've also got a business to run, so I apologize if I've missed it.

Here are 4 glaring flaws with this approach I already see:
1. It would likely bring your credibility down from the get-go because who works for free, right?
2. You're losing out on a chance to filter out unwanted clients.
3. Back to credibility, if the client isn't hanging on your every word, they might not implement everything you tell them to, and thus results might not be the same.
4. Obviously, a legitimate contract would be in order to protect your own interest.

However, you can get past the loss of credibility by reframing your reason for offering this--by emphasizing that you're so confident about your abilities that you know the profits are just around the corner.

The obvious benefits:
1. Great point of entry for those of us who are still implementing credibility-building tactics (amazing stuff by the way, AP).
2. HUGE potential for profits and possibly residual income if you negotiate it right.

Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?--could be an answer to a the biggest milestone for those who can't show a history of measurable results. And with such certainty that tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars in annual profits can be gained for these companies with these tactics, there isn't a whole lot to lose by starting free--and charging client for accrued costs, of course.

It could also work wonders on referrals; though I realize AP turns a lot down, I'm sure for many people they still represent gold. Now, people would be telling their associates and friends, "This IM guy not only propelled my business into the future but he didn't even charge me anything to get started. What's the risk?" Of course, you can still pick and choose your clients.

Just a thought and something I've been thinking of--main reason being that I live in Southeast Asia and many businesses don't understand IM at all. When people here ask me what I do, I tell them about IM, and they ask, "So is that, like, Multi-level marketing or something?" Seems like everyone here thinks that's all that is available on the web...lol

Which also brings up the huge possibilities in these countries when the majority really starts catching on--but that's another tangent...

Again, thanks for everything guys. I'm sure I'll be following a few of you for quite some time on here, and congrats to all the newbs who stepped out of their comfort zone and made it happen right away. Some bright futures emerging from this thread.

Cheers,
James

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:32 AM   #762
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your reply on this as well.

Ok, here's something that i thinking how to answer it.
Recently i check with my bro regarding the company his working. I ask him regarding the marketing department.

He told me 'i think their focus is not on internet marketing' , so how can we change their mind on this?

From the posts that i get from here, i feel that Internet Marketing it's not just about Internet Marketing anymore. As someone mention in here. It's about generate more sales through 3 vocal points

1. Increase Number of leads generated. [SEO, Social Media Marketing]
2. Increase Number Conversation Rates. [Website, Copy ads, call to Action]
3. Increase customers lifetime values. [Email Marketing]

[Man, i love this 3 points, it's really start to make sense even to Business owners..am i right to say that?]

Thanks for the all the posts that coming.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:37 AM   #763
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Actually i do have the same thoughts of yours.
Going for Free first..But it's just too risky and might waste your time and energy doing it.

Firstly, will you work on projects that can't guarantee money? For me..i won't cause you just don't know what happen next when you do so much works and turn out they don't appreciate what you did.

Yes, this things happen. [Imagine working in company when you are helping others, but once you are out. No one remember you. This is sad..Really SAD..happen to me..Which is why i intend to work on my own]

Now my mindset has change. just to take ACTION!



Originally Posted by dru-man View Post

Hey everyone,
About time I chimed in here.

Just like everyone else, I'm getting an AMAZING education from this thread--and I want to thank everyone here for your generosity. A lot of you have really contributed, and I'm not really sure how I could thank AP enough--you've redefined the whole concept of giving to the Warrior Forum. And it looks like some real newbs are already having success with your suggestions and contagious confidence.

Anyhow, on to my question or suggestion. I've been rolling it over in my mind and was curious if anyone thought about offering to work with a client and not charge an upfront fee but working only for a percentage of increased profits? I know some have discussed percentages, but I'm not sure if this particular approach has been mentioned--I've been trying to keep up with the thread but I've also got a business to run, so I apologize if I've missed it.

Here are 4 glaring flaws with this approach I already see:
1. It would likely bring your credibility down from the get-go because who works for free, right?
2. You're losing out on a chance to filter out unwanted clients.
3. Back to credibility, if the client isn't hanging on your every word, they might not implement everything you tell them to, and thus results might not be the same.
4. Obviously, a legitimate contract would be in order to protect your own interest.

However, you can get past the loss of credibility by reframing your reason for offering this--by emphasizing that you're so confident about your abilities that you know the profits are just around the corner.

The obvious benefits:
1. Great point of entry for those of us who are still implementing credibility-building tactics (amazing stuff by the way, AP).
2. HUGE potential for profits and possibly residual income if you negotiate it right.

Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?--could be an answer to a the biggest milestone for those who can't show a history of measurable results. And with such certainty that tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars in annual profits can be gained for these companies with these tactics, there isn't a whole lot to lose by starting free--and charging client for accrued costs, of course.

It could also work wonders on referrals; though I realize AP turns a lot down, I'm sure for many people they still represent gold. Now, people would be telling their associates and friends, "This IM guy not only propelled my business into the future but he didn't even charge me anything to get started. What's the risk?" Of course, you can still pick and choose your clients.

Just a thought and something I've been thinking of--main reason being that I live in Southeast Asia and many businesses don't understand IM at all. When people here ask me what I do, I tell them about IM, and they ask, "So is that, like, Multi-level marketing or something?" Seems like everyone here thinks that's all that is available on the web...lol

Which also brings up the huge possibilities in these countries when the majority really starts catching on--but that's another tangent...

Again, thanks for everything guys. I'm sure I'll be following a few of you for quite some time on here, and congrats to all the newbs who stepped out of their comfort zone and made it happen right away. Some bright futures emerging from this thread.

Cheers,
James

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:48 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by mmmcoffee View Post

My expectation is to walk out of the meeting with a cheque or credit card number. It's about building raport and trust with the business owner, I let them know that's how I do business and that'll get an invoice emailed to them. Some prefer to pay via internet banking, and I also let them know that I only start once they've paid.
True. Read jeffery gitomer if you want to live!! he is a lot of fun, and incredible to see live. Nobody does a power point like gitomer.

Anyhow. It is vital to learn how to CLOSE. This starts at the beginning with you asking the right questions and listening. You should talk less than 25% of the time. If you've done this Really good, you're customer will be asking you for the sale. If you've done it well enough, you'll have to ask for the sale and they will say yes. If you talked more than 50% of the time and didn't learn about what they need, you will beg for the sale and get nothing. If they don't need you- WALK AWAY and don't look back. Find somebody that does need what you have to sell- there are plenty. Trying to close a sale that you haven't understood and addressed their needs is like trying to hammer a nail into a square peg into any number of holes- it may be the square hole but much more likely to be a round or star-shaped one (can you tell I have young children?) which inevitably makes you look like an idiot.

If you do have somebody that is ready to buy from you, ask for the sale with a closing question like "I offer credit card or direct debit payments, which would you prefer?" or "When do you want to get started?" or "Are you ready to move forward?"

Wait.

Don't speak.

Listen for any objections, or let the sale proceed.

Just don't waste your and their time by agreeing to let them "mull it over" or otherwise stall the sale.

Anybody in business should always drive for a yes ($$$) or no (move on, no love lost nor time wasted). Maybe is a killer. The proverbial **** or get off the pot rings true here. Maybe is not an answer, it is a STALL. People are polite and don't want to say no to your face. They fear confrontation. They are weak and scared of what you will say to them. So, to anybody who doesn't feel like buying on the spot, give them an out. "I want my clients to be 100% sure before they move forward with me. If you have any doubts, please don't feel any pressure from me to do anything now, I completely understand." and mean it. With your face. EVEN IF YOU NEED THE MONEY.

If you walk out of the door with a check or a no, then you won. If you walk out with a maybe, or yes but later, or a love your ideas... you've just got skunked. Like AP says- don't call them back. Let them call you. If you pursue them one bit, all your credibility gets lost and you're like any one of the dozens of sales people that call on them every month: a waste of their time.
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:56 AM   #765
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Originally Posted by slvrsrfr View Post

I'd go at least $1k for something like that.

But that's just me.
You are way right. I have added at least that much value. I just personally struggle to charge more that I feel my time is worth because this stuff is so damn easy. I know that is the wrong mindset.

I just feel that somebody else would come along, show them that they could set up their own facebook page in 5 minutes, then say you paid WHAT for that? That guy ripped you off big time!

Please, anybody, talk me through overcoming this. I will pay you $$ if you want because I know if I can shake this I will make plenty more.

I just really want to be a great value for my clients...
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:08 AM   #766
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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I had to repost message.

~AP
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:22 AM   #767
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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AP,

Thanks for your Agreement info.
Can't wait for your questionnaire that we can read and learn from it too.

Thank again!

People who risks change the world
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:24 AM   #768
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Originally Posted by Spark View Post

AP,

Thanks for your Agreement info.
Can't wait for your questionnaire that we can read and learn from it too.

Thank again!
Coming soon to a forum near you.

I could easily sell it for $997
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:37 AM   #769
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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@ 12as24 Does that skate shop have an autoresponder? A list to sell to? Up sell and cross sell offers? Who answers the phone at the shop? Spicoli? (Sorry old man reference, Google it.)

You need just one happy client. Don't let your self imposed disadvantage define you.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:39 AM   #770
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

I see a lot of you seem hung up on my Agreement (actually a contract, but I use the word agreement).

So, here it is. The one I use on a weekly basis. Modify for your use.
As always you greatly over-deliver!

Thank you very, very, VERY much, this will help give a better understanding of many things to basically everyone reading this thread =)

Is it okay if I add this post to the First post's list of resources to not miss?

Cheers,

~Dexx

PS - When you get a chance can you give us your thoughts/feedback on the the title you use to market yourself? (i.e. Marketing Consultant, Direct Response Marketing Specialist etc.)
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:40 AM   #771
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Dexx, feel free to share. I have NO Title on my business card. I do have an Offer on the back.

I see a lot of you seem hung up on my Agreement (actually a contract, but I use the word agreement).

So, here it is. The one I use on a weekly basis. Modify for your use.

This agreement cost me several thousand dollars in legal fees over the last few years modifying it.

This agreement was the 1st time I collected upfront money over a period of time.

Client paid $20,000 over a 6 month period and $1,997 month continuing. Clients monthly revenue went up over 50% in 60 days. He's very happy with my services.

My video creation is strictly for SERP's, quick videos for Google Maps, etc...

Simple blog.

Customized Twitter page $20.

Anyone here could have done what I did except maybe rewrite Yellow Page ads. This is a special skillset.

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:40 AM   #772
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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AP,

Do you use Universal Business Listing for placing your clients in vertical directories or do you do it with manual submission via VA?
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:40 AM   #773
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Spark View Post

Actually i do have the same thoughts of yours.
Going for Free first..But it's just too risky and might waste your time and energy doing it.

Firstly, will you work on projects that can't guarantee money? For me..i won't cause you just don't know what happen next when you do so much works and turn out they don't appreciate what you did.

Yes, this things happen. [Imagine working in company when you are helping others, but once you are out. No one remember you. This is sad..Really SAD..happen to me..Which is why i intend to work on my own]

Now my mindset has change. just to take ACTION!


I understand what you're saying, Spark, and I appreciate the response. But here's the thing. The mindset that everyone seems to be taking to this is that they are 100% convinced they can make money for the client, right?

And in fact, AP scrutinizes his clients so well that he already knows before he gets started exactly what he can do to immediately ramp up their earnings from the get-go, so effectively, as soon as they sign that contract he's made money if he is that sure.

And from what I'm seeing here by these posts from everyone, its that with the right systems put into action for the right clients, people are getting a 100% success rate as far as being able to provide a very significant increase in earnings.

Not to mention that if a client paid me $2000 as a startup fee and I didn't increase their profits at all, I'd honestly rather give them their money back than hold onto it anyways--so same risk, really.

It doesn't sound to me like the approach we're taking is allowing room for clients who can't be helped; therefore, is there really any risk at all?

As far as being forgotten after all you've done, couldn't a rock-solid legal contract take care of that? It would taking sitting down with a lawyer to really understand how to protect yourself, and if anything happened it could be a headache, sure, but I'm just rolling this idea around a little bit.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:42 AM   #774
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

It does depend on how much you're charging and I'm not giving you legal advice but I have never made a business owner sign anything and I've charged 5 figure fees.

Keep in mind I'm charging enough upfront that it doesn't matter if I get paid another cent...I'm happy to do the work...


Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Hi Andrew, thanks for your great feedback!

So does this mean you don't use any contracts/agreements in your work?

I havent myself, but I do own the ProposalKit contract templates, I guess I just have felt a great vibe with each of the businesses that I figured they just wouldn't "screw me."

But now that I've thought about it, having something in writing does help prevent any disagreements in the future over what was expected and what was not...

Thoughts?

~Dexx
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:47 AM   #775
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hi AP,

Here's some point that i noticed.

From what i see, you didn't really mention the performance in details or perhaps written in paper. Is this alright to do so at the start? [Don't get me wrong of asking this, just curious on this]

I saw others agreements and notice that this agreement seem to 'protect' us. Which is a good point. Incase sometime we can't perform as stated in the paper.

Perhaps i will do something like this. Stating the things that i am going to do. Plus the continuity program [If there's] that need to be included. Don't state the outcome of using our service will bring to them.

Great!

Originally Posted by AP View Post

Dexx, feel free to share.

I see a lot of you seem hung up on my Agreement (actually a contract, but I use the word agreement).

So, here it is. The one I use on a weekly basis. Modify for your use.

This agreement cost me several thousand dollars in legal fees over the last few years modifying it.

This agreement was the 1st time I collected upfront money over a period of time.

Client paid $20,000 over a 6 month period and $1,997 month continuing. Clients monthly revenue went up over 50% in 60 days. He's very happy with my services.

My video creation is strictly for SERP's, quick videos for Google Maps, etc...

Simple blog.

Customized Twitter page $20.

Anyone here could have done what I did except maybe rewrite Yellow Page ads. This is a special skillset.

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks

People who risks change the world
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:51 AM   #776
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

Hi Andrew, thanks for your great feedback!

So does this mean you don't use any contracts/agreements in your work?

I havent myself, but I do own the ProposalKit contract templates, I guess I just have felt a great vibe with each of the businesses that I figured they just wouldn't "screw me."

But now that I've thought about it, having something in writing does help prevent any disagreements in the future over what was expected and what was not...

Thoughts?

~Dexx

Yeah, Dexx, I'd say that no matter how great the vibe feels that not having a written agreement is probably a bad idea when you're dealing with these kind of numbers. Not to mention having the agreement is going to increase client confidence and make the agreement feel more official. Takes less than 5 minutes to read and sign, so you might as well.

I know a lot of you guys probably aren't doing it, but if I had 2 cents to spare...lol

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 01:57 AM   #777
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

Dexx, feel free to share.

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks
First of all, shorter than I thought! I generally haven't used contracts but when I offered one I came up with this 12 page boilerplate thing and didn't end up getting the deal. Brevity is powerful.

Interesting payment structure. How do you process payments?

I find the language under performance guarantee a little vague. It seems to possibly conflict with the warranty section. I guess if you keep performing for your clients you don't have to put this language to the test!

I find it interesting that you don't offer in the contract to not compete with other local businesses in the same niche, but it is implied that you wouldn't by the termination clause. What is your policy on this? I have offered for SEO to not compete with clients in the same geolocation+microniche. Doesn't it ruffle clients feathers to think that their competitors could be getting the same gravy as them?

I also find it amazing that you don't really pin anything down to a timeframe except startup. That gives you 6 months to go down that list. Powerful.

Some specific questions on the services:

  • Develop a comprehensive marketing plan
What does this cover? typically how many pages?

  • Creating USP (Unique Selling Proposition)
How long does this take you?
  • Fix “Profit Leaks” within existing business entity
  • Write copy for any phone book advertising
What if this doesn't come up for renewal in the 6 months?
  • Create “Customer List Building” campaign
  • Optimizing Customer Database (managing a database for email marketing campaigns)
  • Formatting professional email auto responders for email blasting
  • Update Clients existing website
Does this include design or just copy?
  • Create a new Web Blog for customer interaction
Are you writing content? Just training them on wordpress? How to they keep their blogs current, or do they?

  • Record Radio talk show interview and place on clients website
Do you get invloved in the production here?
  • Implement Video Marketing
Are you doing any on location video (or 3rd party) or do you just use photos?
  • Press Release Syndication to Local and National media
  • SEO (Perform Search Engine Optimization for On page and Off page traffic)
  • List company in Major Vertical Directories (SuperPages, Yelp, OnStar, Yahoo, etc…)
Again do you use UBL?
  • Manage Google LBC (Local Business Center) position
  • Create a direct mail campaign (Client bears cost for vendors, postage, printing, etc…)
  • Negotiate JV’s (Joint Ventures) (Marketing Company will be compensated outside this agreement on a case by case basis)
How does this work? JV's with other local businesses? Are you finding marketing partners for them?

Finally, do you use this same service list for each client, or does it change based on negotiations (besides pricing)?

WOW this is great stuff. If you do come out with an info product I will buy it just to thank you.
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 02:04 AM   #778
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The agreement I posted is everything written between me and the client. I tell my clients the agreement is for "Their" benefit. It details my responsibilities. In reality I have no problem carrying out my duties. I want a client to know what I'm going to do and NOT going to do.

A few weeks ago one of my clients wanted me to help implement a detailed task that would have taken me about 10 hours. I told him it was not part of our agreement, in a nice manner. Sure enough he got back to me and said "I'm sorry, your correct. I have the agreement in my hand and it does not say anything about that specific duty. How much would you charge me? I told him $2,000 and he said "ok go ahead."

I share info with my clients upfront (verbally) what we can "Reasonably" expect in terms of Performance with "their co-operation and the employees."

I tell them I can't guarantee results because I am not at their operations 24/7. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. It's their job to carry out my ideas.

It is impossible for me NOT to get them a 30% increase over 12 months.

Remember though, most of my clients fall between 1-2 Million in revenue so it's not that hard.

A 20M dollar company would not yield the same results. It's easy to turn around a speedboat, the Titanic is a whole other story.

~AP

Originally Posted by Spark View Post

Hi AP,

Here's some point that i noticed.

From what i see, you didn't really mention the performance in details or perhaps written in paper. Is this alright to do so at the start? [Don't get me wrong of asking this, just curious on this]

I saw others agreements and notice that this agreement seem to 'protect' us. Which is a good point. Incase sometime we can't perform as stated in the paper.

Perhaps i will do something like this. Stating the things that i am going to do. Plus the continuity program [If there's] that need to be included. Don't state the outcome of using our service will bring to them.

Great!
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 02:14 AM   #779
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Oh one more thing... almost hate to ask beacause you've given so much.

How do you handle reviews? Aka, are you doing any programs to actively solicit and/or syndicate online business reviews?

They are huge for getting rankings in LBC and of course greatly influence customer decision making. Do you have any systematic approach?

Stompernet has its ReviewQast which I just discovered. I was wondering about that or other systems/strategies.
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

...
Remember though, most of my clients fall between 1-2 Million in revenue so it's not that hard.

A 20M dollar company would not yield the same results. It's easy to turn around a speedboat, the Titanic is a whole other story.

~AP
This is a very good point that I didn't think of before, so you actually do have a "limit" to the size of a company you'll work due to the fact there will be a lot more restrictions and delays before being able to implement most of the marketing strategies and systems you typically do?

How many employees would you say your typical client's business will have? 1 - 10? 10 - 20?

Small enough that you can really get a feel for the staff's responsibilities and how improvements can be made for each?


~Dexx
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 02:47 AM   #781
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Originally Posted by SteelDanno View Post

That looks pretty cool thank you. I'm an Open Office guy myself but could be persuaded to use Word if this is powerful.
There are many detractors, but I wouldn't be without Word: I remember the pre-WYSIWYG programs. In the UK you can get the whole Office suite of 10 programs for very little money (£50 instead of £480) ...legally.

Maybe you could buy from this site, or maybe there's a US equivalent. It's Software4Students dot co dot uk.
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Comments in Blue.

Originally Posted by reilly3000 View Post

First of all, shorter than I thought! I generally haven't used contracts but when I offered one I came up with this 12 page boilerplate thing and didn't end up getting the deal. Brevity is powerful.

Keep it as Short as possible.

Interesting payment structure. How do you process payments?

PayPal merchant, some send checks, and I have another merchant account. Never had a client stiff me. Some have paid a week late, but otherwise no issues.

I find the language under performance guarantee a little vague.

Thank you.

It seems to possibly conflict with the warranty section. I guess if you keep performing for your clients you don't have to put this language to the test!

I find it interesting that you don't offer in the contract to not compete with other local businesses in the same niche, but it is implied that you wouldn't by the termination clause. What is your policy on this?

I tell my clients upfront it's one company in each category per area.

Ask me what an Area is?

I have offered for SEO to not compete with clients in the same geolocation+microniche. Doesn't it ruffle clients feathers to think that their competitors could be getting the same gravy as them?

I tell ALL my clients "I'm GREEDY, I really do. I tell them I want that check every month from them so I won't market my services to anyone else. I tell them, I'll make you money, you pay ME, don't be late. AP has (6) cars, (1) boat, (2) houses, kids in college, etc... they all laugh.

I also find it amazing that you don't really pin anything down to a timeframe except startup. That gives you 6 months to go down that list. Powerful.

Ah, you noticed that. Here's why. Most clients pay me everything up front. I perform the services over a specific period of time (30 to 90 days). This client had CASH flow problems so he asked me if I would take a $3k down payment, $1,500 a week for whatever, and then $475 for 20 weeks or something. I was NOT going to do all the work in 30 days and then not get paid.

Some specific questions on the services:

  • Develop a comprehensive marketing plan
What does this cover? typically how many pages?

Whatever I want it to be.

  • Creating USP (Unique Selling Proposition)
How long does this take you?

I hate USP's, they are definitely the hardest. Some take months.
  • Fix “Profit Leaks” within existing business entity
  • Write copy for any phone book advertising
What if this doesn't come up for renewal in the 6 months?

I can write it today and the client can submit later. My clients stay with me forever, this isn't a part time gig, lol. Marketing never stops.
  • Create “Customer List Building” campaign
  • Optimizing Customer Database (managing a database for email marketing campaigns)
  • Formatting professional email auto responders for email blasting
  • Update Clients existing website
Does this include design or just copy? Both, I'm an expert at Website design. My specialty is Conversion.
  • Create a new Web Blog for customer interaction
Are you writing content? Just training them on wordpress? How to they keep their blogs current, or do they?

Create blog and they publish content. I do zero.

  • Record Radio talk show interview and place on clients website
Do you get invloved in the production here?

Absolutely. I pick up the phone, call my client and record on Talk Radio Podcast - Blog Talk Radio I write 15 minute scripts in advance.
Isn't that cool


My clients eyes light up when I tell them we will be doing a radio interview and I will post it digitally on their website.

You guys make everything too hard. In the clients eyes this is Priceless.
  • Implement Video Marketing
Are you doing any on location video (or 3rd party) or do you just use photos?

On location, for $20,000? No way. I had one client who wanted a Video shot on location. I hired a college professional, he charged me $300 including editing, and I charged the client $2,500.
  • Press Release Syndication to Local and National media
  • SEO (Perform Search Engine Optimization for On page and Off page traffic)
  • List company in Major Vertical Directories (SuperPages, Yelp, OnStar, Yahoo, etc…)
Again do you use UBL? See previous post above.
  • Manage Google LBC (Local Business Center) position
  • Create a direct mail campaign (Client bears cost for vendors, postage, printing, etc…)
  • Negotiate JV’s (Joint Ventures) (Marketing Company will be compensated outside this agreement on a case by case basis)
How does this work? JV's with other local businesses? Are you finding marketing partners for them?

Yes. I get 15-30% of the profits. I did one before Christmas, made $8,400.

Finally, do you use this same service list for each client, or does it change based on negotiations (besides pricing)?

Each client is different. I have a Cheat-sheet and a swipe-file I use to determine services and lingo.

WOW this is great stuff. If you do come out with an info product I will buy it just to thank you.

I have nothing to sell. Although I've had at least 50 members here ask for 1 on 1 coaching, JV's etc... To date I've not offered anything except help here in the forum.

One member offered me $5,000 if I work with him for the next 6 weeks on Skype for a couple of hours a week. Plus he said we could go 50/50 on any deals he brings me. I told him to keep studying here and he will learn from me and others here.

I make 100% on my own deals anyways ;-)

I have also had some very sad stories that tug at my heart. Some of you are in dire straights, kids, mortgage, no job, no money, etc... I hate to hear that. Been there, done that, ain't going back.

If you are Broke, don't let the business owner see that in your eyes, it's over. You won't get $20, never-mind $20,000.

That's one of the reasons I decided to start posting my info. I'm hoping those in need will run with it and provide for their families. I don't need the money. Obama wants it anyways, won't be mine for long, lol.


~AP
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 02:58 AM   #783
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Comments in Blue.

Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

This is a very good point that I didn't think of before, so you actually do have a "limit" to the size of a company you'll work due to the fact there will be a lot more restrictions and delays before being able to implement most of the marketing strategies and systems you typically do?

That's why I like co's 1-2M. I can see their problems immediately. Like Vagabond 007 said, a fresh pair of (trained) eyes can do wonders for a small company.

Do you know what a small business owner feels like when you take him from 100k a month to 125k in less than 90 days? You actually get too many referrals, lol. He throws all of his broke a$$ friends at you.

How many employees would you say your typical client's business will have? 1 - 10? 10 - 20?

4-10

Small enough that you can really get a feel for the staff's responsibilities and how improvements can be made for each?

Ah, catching on Dexx

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 03:01 AM   #784
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Originally Posted by MarketingNinja View Post

Hey Spark,

For me, it takes time to write out an agreement. I don't like to waste my time, so if I'm not doing business with them, I don't want to spend time upfront doing it. I tell them that I don't do any work with out payment in advance, and as soon as I receive payment, then I do the agreement. We've already outlined how we will be working together verbally, so it's just a matter of putting that info in writing at that point.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jeff.
It helps me too - have wasted time and money before doing upfront work, and then the owner not following through. I think the way you suggest helps position yourslef as the expert and as someone who believes in themselves enough not to 'need' work.
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 03:18 AM   #785
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Hi, replies below:

Originally Posted by AP View Post

Dexx, feel free to share. I have NO Title on my business card. I do have an Offer on the back.

I keep the back of my business cards blank. Then, when I'm going to a meeting (eg, at the Chamber) or a conference, I decide what it is I want to be promoting that time. I print an offer or bullet points onto some small labels, and stick them on the back.



I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Yes, it was. Thank you.

Thanks
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 03:47 AM   #786
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Ayush

I'm well impressed to see someone your age doing this, and all power to you.

I don't know if you look young or old (or either) for your age? I took my 16 year old daughter to a few Chamber and other breakfast meetings (meaning she wasn't too late for school/college).

I introduced her to others and she explained that she wanted to become a full time writer. She said she was keen to build her portfolio and, as such, would like to take on some work, but would offer a discount. I was able to vouch for the excellent standard of her work.

They thought she was a university student, but when she said she was 16, they were impressed, and she still got some work. She also gained more confidence and poise through learning to network with the business owners.

A few weeks later, she was offered a full-time job as a subeditor at a glossy monthly landrover magazine; they were so impressed with her maturity and abilities that they said her age didn't come into it. I lost a good writer from my team!

Is there someone who could introduce you to meetings like this? I have taken along other pupils from time to time, just to give them an idea of business people. Even if you haven't, call the people running the events and ask to come along. Wear a badge explaining your key benefits and say looking for work experience, only three slots left, and then up to full price.

The best of luck to you

Jacqui
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 07:07 AM   #787
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Here's an idea which might work?????? *(for people wanting new leads)

Most areas have a local paper right? Now normally you could argue that putting an advert in the back of a local paper is worthless as it isn't targetted, and that's if the reader even bothers looking in the ad section (I often don't).

However, most local newspapers let you do a featured Ad, for example my cousin did one to launch her hairdressing shop, it was a full page with photo and description, and cost around £70 (which currently is about $111 or so). What I like about this is it is in the main section of the paper.

Anyway, my idea is to put an ad where you have your website address (make it short if possible, could be a redirect), and your ad would explain your services, and say that if you are a business owner in the <location> area, go to this website to eneter a competition to receive a free marketing plan to increase revenue/online pressence (or whatever) for your business.

So, from the replies, you of course will choose a business which you feel would most likely result in a fruitfull relationship, but of course you would do the report for free as stated.

Ok, so the result of this could be the following.

1) The company which you did the free consultation for could then lead onto an ongoing monthly program

2) At the least, it is experience that you have gained and can use that company as a testimonial or get referals from.

3) The cool thing is all of the other replies you have, are from businesses who are putting their hands up in the air saying "we need help!".

Well, not sure if it is a good idea or not, but thought I would share it all the same. There are probably many variations on this you could do.

Hmm, another thought is you could have as many of tme "win" as you like, especially if it leads to a monthly program. I'm just thinking, if they feel they have "won", wouldn't it be silly for them to turn it down? You could also do 2nd and 3rd prize.

What I also like about this, is it allows you to put your name out there, but following what AP does, it means they would still contact YOU, giving you the upper hand from a positioning point of view.

Cheers,
Phil

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 07:24 AM   #788
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hi Phil,

Sounds like a good plan, especially if you are looking for your first foot in the door in order to secure a testimonial.

However, to me £70 seems very cheap for a featured ad. Is the circulation of the paper small to reflect the cheap price?

There are many ways to market your services to local businesses and your idea sounds good. The only way you will know if it works is to test it.

Good luck buddy.

Riz

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 08:13 AM   #789
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Thanks for the detailed response, reilly3000.

Originally Posted by reilly3000 View Post

2. Rural is tough. My experience has been that there isn't much search inventory to find for your clients, and PER CAPITA there is less adoption of search in general. People are more likely to use word of mouth or the yellow pages. In general, the YP companies have been at selling advertising to local businesses WAY longer than any of us have- check their pricing for a full page ad between a rural market and a major metro. Could be $500/month vs $12,000 month in some dramatic cases... you'll have to price SEO accordingly.

The other thing about rural or smaller towns is that frankly most people are there to exist, or dare I say coast. They want to make a living and enjoy their family and friends. Nothing in the world wrong with that, I moved to a smaller city myself after years in LA and Seattle. The mindset is different and typically people aren't looking to massively grow their businesses or compete heavily.
Yeah, these are all things that have crossed my mind. Now you've pretty much confirmed this. Where I'll be living isn't extremely rural (West Kootenays, for those familiar with the area-- I'm sure Dexx knows where that is ) but it's definitely a "rest/relaxation" type of place. I definitely don't see a lot of cutthroat business competition over there.

One problem I can foresee is the lack of decent search terms to rank for. I've already looked up random terms like "Nelson coffee shop" and "Trail bank", only to be met with "not enough data". How can you convince a business they'll benefit from ranking for these keywords that get probably a combined total of 20 searches / month?

Now, there may be some businesses that sell nationally located in VERY small towns. I've got an appt next week with a guy in a town two hours away from me that sells a niche plastics product nationwide. He is the largest dealer on the west coast for this niche. His town's population: 598 people. This company has a sucky web site and no marketing, yet does over $1M in business via the web and phone orders. Nowhere in search. Do you think I can help them? I'm planning on talking about an equity deal because I think I can make a huge impact.
Cool, I'm sure there are businesses like this everywhere if you know where to look.

The good thing about smaller markets is that people talk, and they really need people like you. I have done ZERO marketing for myself, have been in business for over a year on my own with rent and an assistant, everything has come in from referrals. I turned down 2 jobs last week.

You can't charge an arm and a leg out of the gates, but you can make yourself have a good income serving local businesses to their satisfaction. If you want to go big in a small market, pick a niche, offer your services nationally to members of that niche, and travel to them.

My $.02
If you don't mind me asking, how did you start? Did you help out a friend's business and get referrals from that, etc?

By the way, I just checked out the website for a local Chamber of Commerce and it costs an arm and a leg to join. I thought this type of thing was free. Is it just a Canadian thing or is it the same in the US? :confused:

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 08:16 AM   #790
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by dru-man View Post

I've been rolling it over in my mind and was curious if anyone thought about offering to work with a client and not charge an upfront fee but working only for a percentage of increased profits? I know some have discussed percentages, but I'm not sure if this particular approach has been mentioned--I've been trying to keep up with the thread but I've also got a business to run, so I apologize if I've missed it.

Here are 4 glaring flaws with this approach I already see:
1. It would likely bring your credibility down from the get-go because who works for free, right?
2. You're losing out on a chance to filter out unwanted clients.
3. Back to credibility, if the client isn't hanging on your every word, they might not implement everything you tell them to, and thus results might not be the same.
4. Obviously, a legitimate contract would be in order to protect your own interest.

However, you can get past the loss of credibility by reframing your reason for offering this--by emphasizing that you're so confident about your abilities that you know the profits are just around the corner.

The obvious benefits:
1. Great point of entry for those of us who are still implementing credibility-building tactics (amazing stuff by the way, AP).
2. HUGE potential for profits and possibly residual income if you negotiate it right.

Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?--could be an answer to a the biggest milestone for those who can't show a history of measurable results. And with such certainty that tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars in annual profits can be gained for these companies with these tactics, there isn't a whole lot to lose by starting free--and charging client for accrued costs, of course.
About 1 week to 3 months after doing this you'll see why it's not such a great idea in practice.

The reality is you usually won't get paid even if you do make a business a lot of money.

And the business owners you work with won't respect you and you'll find it very difficult to get any projects you start working (because you won't have the whole hearted support of the business owners you work with).

So the chance of helping a business make even thousands in profits is minimal to zero.



There are a couple of situations where you might consider doing this or doing the work free.

# Working for a charity or not for profit sports organization.

The contacts and referrals you gain can get a very good source of paying clients.


# Working for a business networking group or some other business where a big part of the agreement is them giving you referrals.

Again it can lead to paying clients.


In both situations even if you have a profit agreement you never really expect to get paid anything (if you do that's a bonus).

You're doing it for the experience, to build your credibility and for high quality referrals.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 08:22 AM   #791
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Sorry for another long post.

Getting new clients is always a hang-up when starting, the nerves, and the fear of getting rejected. I think one way that helps getting clients, both local and distance, is for us to think out of the box a little. For example, as a way of growing my business I had decided that I was going to try two forms of media but in a reverse fashion.

Newspapers: Instead of running an ad in a paper to compete with others, or the price for the space, I will use the papers to find prospective clients. A local paper here features a small business every week usually in their business section. The article goes over their success story and growth, and includes things like sales they have grown to, the amount of employees they now employ. All real feel good stuff for the local people to read about.

My intention is to start looking at these companies and see which ones I can help them grow. The article gives me a decent small background already, so then a matter of seeing their online presence, competition, etc. will show me if they are a good fit A small family run business that took 5 years or more of long hour business running to get to a million in sales might be very interested in seeing how it can both increase profits by 30% or so in less than a year and give them more freedom of their time.

For companies that I will help, that weren’t featured in the paper; I will setup such success story write-ups for them. If I helped a company grow with increased profits, and arranging for them to get more exposure, I am sure they wouldn’t mind mentioning my business just once about how they were able to grow.

Now think about this, say you are able to find 5 companies that you could do this for, were you are mentioned by all 5 over the course of a year or so. And it comes time for you to market yourself to another prospective group of clients. You send a book you wrote on the subject, and now also include copies of the stories from those papers where they see you being listed as someone that helped that company get there… I don’t think it will be that difficult to close those sales.

Television: No, I’m a long way from getting a commercial up, but there are two shows on TV currently that contain businesses which are screaming for marketing help; Shark Tank, and Kitchen Nightmares.

For ST, many of these business people trying to get investment money are just totally clueless on the marketing side. In fact many of them say in their pitches, they aren’t marketing people so they don’t know how to build their business. Some of the ideas are pretty good, but were rejected by the Sharks for being too small money wise for them.

How open would one of these people be, if they are a good fit of course, to have someone come to them and say “I can help you grow your company without you having to give up control of it.” For some of them they would be open to the % compensation as well as fee. Paying us 5-10% of their profits as they grow, is a lot better than them giving up 50% of the company. When you look at the websites and online presence of some of these people, you see how much help they do need in both the online and offline world.

For KN, Chef Ramsey helps these restaurants out with all the changes he makes, and the restaurant gets a good amount of foot traffic from being on the show and local media, but, what happens 6 months from now? Are they growing continually or have they reached a highpoint? And even though they might be steady or slightly down from the show’s episode, they are still losing money (as we see it), because they are not growing.

These would be good restaurants to approach about helping them grow their business even more. They have healthier checking accounts, but are missing out on having a healthy retirement account as well. We can show them how to get better repeat business, with loyalty programs, birthday meals, online ordering and/or reservations, etc.

The big thing is that both of these shows have people who are actively looking and begging for help. So why can’t we be the ones who can help them?

Those are just my 2 cents on thinking out of the box a little, out of the many ways to do so, and how to make looking for clients, especially for those of us just beginning, a little easier.

Chris
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 09:08 AM   #792
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Riz View Post

Hi Phil,

Sounds like a good plan, especially if you are looking for your first foot in the door in order to secure a testimonial.

However, to me £70 seems very cheap for a featured ad. Is the circulation of the paper small to reflect the cheap price?

There are many ways to market your services to local businesses and your idea sounds good. The only way you will know if it works is to test it.

Good luck buddy.

Riz
Hi Riz

Thanks!! Yeah, it is only for a local town, population 10,000, and of course not every person would buy the paper. Also, it was a bit cheaper because some other people bought small adds to be posted on the same page.

Like you said though, the only way to know would be to test. Agreed also that this is more for people (like me) to find a way of getting started, as hopefully later business would come from referals like the big guys on here get :-)

Cheers,
Phil

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 09:42 AM   #793
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by phil.wheatley View Post

Hi Riz

Thanks!! Yeah, it is only for a local town, population 10,000, and of course not every person would buy the paper. Also, it was a bit cheaper because some other people bought small adds to be posted on the same page.

Like you said though, the only way to know would be to test. Agreed also that this is more for people (like me) to find a way of getting started, as hopefully later business would come from referals like the big guys on here get :-)

Cheers,
Phil
Yeah, I think this is a great idea too. Even though it's expensive, I think a decent-sized ad (rather than just a classified) would be a great investment. I'm sure you would get at least a few clients to start out with and that would make up for the cost of the ad in no time.

I think this is what I'm gonna do once I get my website up and running.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 11:17 AM   #794
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Originally Posted by jacquic View Post

There are many detractors, but I wouldn't be without Word: I remember the pre-WYSIWYG programs. In the UK you can get the whole Office suite of 10 programs for very little money (£50 instead of £480) ...legally.

Maybe you could buy from this site, or maybe there's a US equivalent. It's Software4Students dot co dot uk.
Oh, I have Microsoft Office for both PC and Mac. I use Open Office cause it makes me feel warm and fuzzy not using MS products. Heh. Tip appreciated in any case, thank you.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 11:45 AM   #795
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

Dexx, feel free to share. I have NO Title on my business card. I do have an Offer on the back.

I see a lot of you seem hung up on my Agreement (actually a contract, but I use the word agreement).

So, here it is. The one I use on a weekly basis. Modify for your use.

...

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks
AP: Regarding feedback ... yes, you could say it's what I expected ... but only from a conceptual point of view. The difference here is I'm now seeing the real deal, the nitty details and that ... is incredibly valuable. It's like trying to get somewhere and the difference between being given verbal directions - or - being given verbal directions plus being handed a GPS!

Your generosity throughout this post has been remarkable. This document alone is a great confidence booster for anyone wanting a solid template to modify, use and feel all the more sure footed in doing a deal. Thank you.


Last edited on 1st Feb 2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: clarity
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 11:46 AM   #796
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks
Thanks very much AP for sharing all of this. I love it.

I think it is succinct and to the point. What I'm gleaning more and more as I read your posts, is that most of us are likely over complicating this whole process. When in fact, it should be kept as simple as possible. And keeping it simple will likely get us better results for our clients anyway.

As you mention, this agreement really is for their benefit. Because if you've done your due diligence properly, you're only working with clients you want to work with. And part of that I'd guess is because they are trustworthy and ethical business owners. This is proven by the fact that you've never once been stiffed.

I love the agreement. I for one wouldn't change a thing. Not only that, call me old school if you will, but I believe a gentleman's word is his bond. Or should be anyway.

Cheers,

Jason

PS. I'd love to know what you consider an "Area". In my city we are divided into quadrants. NW, NE, SW, SE, but I think even that might be too large an area to have a no-compete in. Especially for folks like dentists etc.

PPS. If you could offer more info on what you're looking for, or how you go about finding JVs, I'd be most grateful. That's certainly an area I haven't had much experience in.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 11:53 AM   #797
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by MurphSmurf View Post

Thanks for the detailed response, reilly3000.

By the way, I just checked out the website for a local Chamber of Commerce and it costs an arm and a leg to join. I thought this type of thing was free. Is it just a Canadian thing or is it the same in the US? :confused:
Certainly our local town one is cheaper than our county Chamber, but they're still good value. I think each Chamber in the UK sets its own fees. I had no idea until I read this thread how expensive membership is over the pond.

Of course, you can just set up a business networking group yourself.

I had an idea today: what do you folks think?

We will set up a simple site and on it will put 1 or 2 helpful products and 1 or 2 interviews with local businesses per month. We will alert all Chamber members (getting hold of the list is one of the perks of membership) and other local business each time there is a new one up.

We may restrict it to one or two per category each 4-6 months.

We will sell advertising space once the traffic builds up (I'll do a couple of freebies or cheapies to get it going).

This is on a local level, and I would like to spread it eventually to the county and the rest of the region.

I'd like to do this as one of the ways of positioning myself as the person to come to.
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by SteelDanno View Post

Oh, I have Microsoft Office for both PC and Mac. I use Open Office cause it makes me feel warm and fuzzy not using MS products. Heh. Tip appreciated in any case, thank you.
My pleasure :-)

Pleased you like it. For me, after using Word 2007, I got so annoyed with Open Office, I think my husband was very pleased when I uninstalled it :-)

That said, I remember preparing class worksheets using Banda, so compared to that, Open Office is to swoon for.

(For those of you who are younger than 45, (Wikipedia): A spirit duplicator (also referred to as a Ditto machine or Banda machine) was a low-volume printing method used mainly by schools and churches. Sheets printed on a ditto machine were called ditto sheets, or just dittos. The term "spirit duplicator" refers to the alcohols which were a major component of the solvents used as "inks" in these machines.

We used to sit and sniff them).
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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:38 PM   #799
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Okay, first of all, let me jump on the "Thank YOU!" bandwagon...incredible thread with information you can't buy anywhere else, much less get for free.

One side note: Dexx, if you want a title, how about "Profit Specialist". Use that title to sell the benefit, not the feature! (Or, do a "titleless" business card like AP; I like that myself.)

Now, to add something to this thread.

I've been smacking myself in the forehead for seventeen pages and counting now.

I've been in radio broadcasting for 25 years in a small town in Mississippi (population of our county: 42,000, although the area our 100,000 watt FM covers is around 250,000), writing and producing radio copy; to say that I've dealt with mom-and-pop business owners is a vast understatement. Specifically, I've dealt with them in regards to their marketing. With this experience, I want to make something perfectly clear...

...most small business owners don't have a freakin' clue what they're doing.

I'm not guessing at this fact, or trying to echo what AP and others have said; they truly have no idea how to maximize their profits. In my experience, that's due to two different things.
  1. They decided to open an business, took action and made a go of it, with "learning on the job" the norm, which means they have themselves as a marketing coach. You know the saying "A man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client?" The same thing applies here.
  2. What they think they know about marketing has come to them (in large part) from the local radio and newspaper salesmen, who all preach "the more you spend, the better it is!"
They're not stupid...they're ignorant. Stupid can't be fixed, ignorant can, which is where the point of this thread comes in.

I've made comments for years to clients when they came into the station about their marketing, and things they can do to help themselves. This is the reason I've got 17 pages' worth of bruises on my forehead.

And in case anyone wonders how many potential clients are out there...currently, our account list at my local station group stands at 2,452.

Think about that for a second.

In a county of 42,000, in an area serving a quarter-million people, there are almost 2,500 businesses trying to market themselves through us. This doesn't count the ones that blow their entire budget in the newspaper, cable and YP.

If they're spending money on advertising...they want more cash coming in the door than they have now. And as has been said previously in this thread, with YP, radio, cable and newspaper, they're spending that money with absolutely no guarantee of ROI. Period.

Again, this isn't "what the research shows"; this is 25 years' experience of dealing with local businesses (and knowing exactly what they are "promised" and expect from advertising) talking.

We have that many clients from promising "greater market exposure" and "placement on the biggest station in the area". If we promised them "a 30% increase in profit over the next 90 days," we'd have to hire armed guards to stand at the door to protect us from the throngs of people trying to throw money at us.

These businesses are used to getting vague promises of unverifiable results for their budget; every media outlet in the world makes a living on promising just that. I've had business owners in my studio that have just spent $1,000 for a ten-day radio buy, and after recording their commercial they say "Okay, sounds good; I hope that gets people in the door."

Seriously.

That's what they're used to hearing. Promising them a specific increase on their profits will, indeed, position you as a god to them.

If you're having problems building the confidence in yourself to do this, remember...chances are good that they've never heard of most of the things you'll be telling them, and they have never had anyone offer them increased profits from doing business with someone. Ever.

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Unread 1st Feb 2010, 12:59 PM   #800
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AP, it appears the link to the attachment is now invalid. Did you disable it or did the mods? I'd love to see it if you or anyone else who downloaded it (if that's ok with you) wouldn't mind PMing me or sending it via Skype.

Originally Posted by AP View Post


So, here it is. The one I use on a weekly basis. Modify for your use.

This agreement cost me several thousand dollars in legal fees over the last few years modifying it.

This agreement was the 1st time I collected upfront money over a period of time.

Client paid $20,000 over a 6 month period and $1,997 month continuing. Clients monthly revenue went up over 50% in 60 days. He's very happy with my services.

My video creation is strictly for SERP's, quick videos for Google Maps, etc...

Simple blog.

Customized Twitter page $20.

Anyone here could have done what I did except maybe rewrite Yellow Page ads. This is a special skillset.

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks

"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
~ Zig Ziglar
Lance K is offline  
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