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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:11 AM   #851
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by ijohnson View Post

Hhmmmmph!

AP, you're the man!!!!!!

Keep it coming, baby! Keep it coming!!!!!
Give me $50k and I'll give you all my Secrets

~AP
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:14 AM   #852
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Alright, I promised I would post more when I got the time. I still don't have the time to post as much as I want. But I will do my best to help out.

The first part of my post is from way back when AP posted that scenario. I started writing my replies in a Word file. But never had the time to finish.

Below is what I had so far. Yes, it stops in the middle. But I am not making any more time to work on it.


Snippet of AP’s post a few pages back…

Now you make this statement:

Mr Business owner, "If I could show you a way to cut the Fat & Waste from your marketing budget and at the same time Increase your sales by 30%, would you be interested?"

Show me how you could justify ME giving YOU a $4,997 set-up fee plus $1,497 per month (starting in 30 days) 12 month agreement. Total price is $23,000.

I want YOU to show me what you could do to "Cut the Fat & Waste in my Advertising budget and Increase my sales.
Not knowing what business we are dealing with, I’ll just pick the carpet cleaning one for my answers.

First things first, we need to start tracking everything. The guy is flying without any instruments. Not good. So we need to get some baseline numbers. This will allow us to start measuring EVERYTHING. What gets measured can be improved.

Spending $40,000 a year on YP ads and not knowing if they contributed to any sales is a crime.

$10,000 spent on spray and pray is also a crime. So right off the bat those two things get stopped. Being he is in a contract with YP, he’ll have to keep paying until the end of the year. So those savings won’t go into effect until next year. I’ll come back to talking more about YP again later on.

But the spray and pray marketing gets stopped immediately! There is no excuse for this type of marketing. So that frees up $10,000 right there. The reason this type of marketing is bad is because it’s not targeted. You are wasting money by trying to sell to “everyone”.

Everyone is not your customer. Do you think it would be wise for a Lamborghini dealership to send direct mail to houses with incomes of $50,000 or less? No, of course not. It’s not their market. Same thing applies in any business.

You need 3 things to match. Market, Message, Media. You have to send the right message, to the right market, using the right media. All 3 need to support each other. You cannot just pick 2 and expect great results. Think of it like a 3 legged stool. If you took one of the legs off a stool, it would fall over. You need all 3 for it to stand (work).

Market = TRAGETED market. Lamborghini example again…(numbers aren’t exact, just using them for the example) households with incomes of $400,000+, home values of $1 million+, already owns 2 cars, is a member of a country club, etc. You get the idea.

If you sell carpet cleaning services do you think it is better to target home owners or renters? Obviously homeowners. Renters aren’t going to pay hundreds of dollars to clean carpets that aren’t theirs.

Message = Are you conveying the right message to your market? I could write pages on this topic alone.

Media = How you are communicating with your market (direct mail, radio, TV, newspaper, etc.)

Btw, it’s best to pick your market first, then your message, then your media. Most businesses get this part wrong. They like to pick the media first. Usually because some salesman from the YP or Val Pak showed up and got them to waste, I mean hand over their money.


I’d dig deeper into the numbers from 2008 and see why they declined in 2009. Perhaps there is something there that can give us some valuable information. Why did they lose $100,000 in 2009 compared to 2008? What was he doing in 08 that he isn’t doing now?

Find out if there is anything he did in the past that has worked. If so, do it again. You don’t stop going back to the well if it still has water in it.

USP – We need to come up with one. Something that lets his customers know EXACTLY why they should do business with him over any of his competitors or not do anything at all. Once the USP has been created, it goes onto every piece of marketing.

Coming up with a great USP - You need to answer the following question, “Why should I do business with you, as opposed to any and every other similar kind of business, or from not doing anything at all?”

Or to put it another way, answer the 4 big questions a potential customer will be asking:

Why should I listen to you?
Why should I believe what you’re saying?
Why should I do anything about it?
Why should I act NOW?


Consumer Awareness Guide – I’m personally not a fan of the Yellow Pages at all. So I probably wouldn’t even bother with it again. Regardless, as I mentioned earlier, that $40,000 has got to go! IF, and that’s a big IF, we were to come up with another YP ad, it would be MUCH smaller. As in business card size. And it wouldn’t resemble a business card like everyone else’s ad does.

It would offer a “Consumer Awareness Guide”. Example, “Warning: 5 Things You Need To Know Before Hiring A Carpet Cleaner”. Then it gives a 1-800 to call a free recorded message where people can hear some more info and a place for them to leave their contact info so they can get their free report.

Create an up sell. This would be one of the very first things I do. Come up with some type of yearly package of some sort. This is a great way to get a surge of cash. For the pest control business I’d create some type of continuity program that is a yearly thing but charges people every quarter.

Not knowing the carpet cleaning business and not being able to sit next to the owner to get his input and get estimates on prices, just going off the top of my head for now….

I’ll [assume] the average room costs $350 to clean the carpets. And assume to get the best results it should be done 2 times a year. Which would cost $700.

I would come up with a yearly maintenance package that includes cleaning every room in the house. Let’s say the average house has 4 rooms. That would be $1,400 to have them done separately. But if someone gets the yearly maintenance package, it includes…

$999
Includes 2 visits per year
Work is guaranteed – No questions asked. If they are not happy with a certain room, it will be cleaned again for free within 48 hours.
Credit card is automatically billed every 3 months for $250

EVERY single technician MUST tell EVERY customer about this yearly service plan. Also, if the customer declines the plan, the tech MUST have the customer sign in a designated area saying that they were told about the service but they don’t want it. This will do 2 things….

1. Give the techs a reason to ask for the sale since if they don’t they will get in trouble because the paperwork wasn’t signed declining the plan
2. Gives a way to track the up sell. Remember, what gets tracked can get improved.

Chances are at least 20% of people will take this offer. So it just went from a onetime sale to them being signed up to be automatically billed $250 every 3 months.


That’s all I have in regards to AP’s scenario a few pages back. I realize it’s half done. But again, I just don’t have the time to spend on it anymore. But since I already had the above just sitting on my computer, figured I’d post it.

Moving on…

AP mentioned before about profit leaks. Profits leaks are an easy way to increase business/cut waste. Think of it like this, if you had a bucket with a bunch of holes in it and you needed to fill it with water, you’d fill the holes first. If not, it’s just going to leak out as you pour water in the top. Sounds silly when it’s put like this. But this is essentially what businesses are doing with their marketing and advertising.

There are spending thousands of dollars on advertising that isn’t effective and isn’t tracked. So that’s mistakes number 1 and 2. Mistake number 3 is what happens IF someone does respond to their ads. If they call into their business and no one is there to pick up the phone, their bucket has a hole in it and water (money) is leaking out. Make sense? Plug their buckets. (kinda sounds weird :p)

I saw a few people talking about getting certified and even an MBA was tossed into the mix. For the love of Warrior Forum, do NOT waste one second worrying about some stupid certificate. What a waste of time and money.

If you go to school to get an MBA you’ll waste your time and money and have nothing to show for it. This is not corporate America. You do NOT need some school to give you permission to help local business owners.

Read some of the books by the authors that have been mentioned in this thread and I guarantee you will know more than someone with an MBA.
You appoint yourself an expert. You don’t need some school to do it.

I’m also seeing a ton of posts on business cards. I personally think they are over rated! What the hell do you need them for? If you are going around passing out business cards then I think you are wasting your time. Well, unless you like working with less than ideal clients.

I suppose there is an argument that you should have them if you have a speaking gig. But other than that, I don’t see any use for them.

A lot of you seem to be forgetting that who you do not work with is just as important as who you do work with. I’ve said that like 3 times on this forum by now. You only want to work with clients that fit a certain criteria. Unless again, you like working with people that will take up your time and cause you headaches.

Speaking of ideal clients. I have found that the ideal client is someone that CAN do what I do. But for whatever reason they don’t do it. No time being a big reason.

You want clients that are already successful, could do it themselves if they wanted to, and they’re busy. The busier they are the less they’ll bother you.

Contracts – As others have mentioned, call them agreements or something better than contracts. And go easy on the lawyer lingo. Too much lawyer talk and the client may start to think you’re going to be a problem down the road.

And anyone not using “contracts” is nuts imo. I don’t care how nice someone seems, you never know what can happen down the road. Hell, I thought I was going to marry my last gf. Now, I’m glad that’s over. Things change. People change. Get it in writing.

“Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.”

If something goes wrong 8 months down the road, you can’t go for the prenup now. Do it upfront.

Now to answer some posts…


Originally Posted by 12as24 View Post

-Why don't you offer performance-based commission instead of a steady monthly rate? With generating $1 million in value, you can easily live off of ONE CLIENT at a 15% commission rate. I'm surprised people haven't suggested this yet, it would provide more focus and direction on your part towards four or five clients as well.
This can be done. And it can be lucrative for the reason you stated. But there are drawbacks.

Obviously you have to see their books to know what your baseline numbers are. Then of course you need to see them again at certain times to see what the new numbers are so you know whether or not they are paying you the right amount. Even then...

Some Will Steal - No matter, there will always be someone who rips you off.

Another issue, and it's a big one, you are relying on the actions and performance of others. And as you probably know, that is a bad thing to rely on. First off, clients don't listen all the time. Even after they pay you large sums of money. Then you have their employees that don't do what their told. Those 2 things alone are biggies.

Quick Story - I forget the consultants name, but he was working with a client on a performance based deal. They do a lottery mailing. Mail out tickets saying "Everyone is a winner. Come in and claim your free prize". Person comes into their office to claim their prize. All prizes were sitting behind the receptionists desk. On the desk are the instructions for the receptionist to follow when a customer comes into claim their prize.

Customer comes in and the receptionist says "Oh, that's just a scam to get people to come into our office so we can sell them."

So the system worked, but the employee sabotaged it. That's money out of the consultants pocket because she was an idiot. Trust me, there are plenty like her.

Another issue, you do most of the work upfront and then never lift a finger. But, the client still has to pay you for years to come. Good for you. But, your client will grow to hate cutting you a check every month when you are no longer working. We obviously know it doesn't matter, the value is still there. But, they will obviously see it differently.

Which brings me to...

Buy Out - Have a buyout % ON TOP OF your fees. Give them an option to buy you out of the monthly check they will have to cut you forever. Percentage obviously depends on the actual numbers. Example, if over the course of 2 years they stand to gain $1 million and your buy out is $100,000, they'll probably take it. But if they stand to only gain $150,000, then they may not like the buyout of $100,000.


Originally Posted by AP View Post

My "Questionnaire" does all the fact-finding to determine my fees.

In effect, the business owner is setting my fees when he answers MY questionnaire. I have a clean slate with no pre-determined fees of what I can charge. I know the Minimum I'd like to get, but not the Maximum.

By asking detailed, comprehensive questions about their business I can get a feel for what my services are worth.

If I think my services can increase their profits $200,000 I’m NOT gonna charge $997 set-up fee and $497 month. I may come in at 10k-15k set-up and 2k month. Total for 12 months would be about about $35k. The client would see a ROI of 6-1 for every dollar invested with me.
Exactly. This is why you must ask the right questions. Their answers will tell you...

1. If you can help them
2. How you can help them
3. How much they can make
4. How much you will charge

LTV is a great number to know.

Small portion of the questions I ask...

• Name, address, phone number, URL, etc.
• Describe the business
• What products/services do you currently offer
• Average sale price
• How many times a year do customers buy
• LTV of customers
• Cost to acquire a lead or customer
• What kind of advertising are you currently doing and is it working
• Are you using any up sells
• How many employees
• Gross yearly sales
• Net profit per year
• Biggest struggle
• How many hours do you work per week
• What do you want your business to look like a year from now
• Describe the perfect client
• Who are your competitors
• Why do your customers do business with you
• What is the most common objection you hear
• What is your guarantee
• Tell me in 3 sentences or less why I should do business with you
• What is your advertising budget
• Do you track your results
• What has been your best advertising method
• What do you do with the leads who don’t purchase from you

That should be enough to get you started.

I also ask questions that let me know what their goals are and where they want to go and how they want their life to be.

Then I feed it back to them throughout the conversation. For example, if freeing up 10 hours a week is important to them, I will use it later on when I’m explaining the benefits to them.

It’s not always about the money.


Originally Posted by mktmkr View Post

Turns out she was pretty confused by what we'd given, since it listed different packages with descriptions.

I said that I'd redo the proposal and stuck with high-level language. She didn't want to get locked into an annual deal as of yet, so she decided on a 2 month setup for $4000, after which we're looking at $1000/mo.
First off, congrats!!

Always remember, a confused mind never buys. While it is good to sometimes offer packages, there is a limit to how many. Too many options and people won't decide on one, as you found out.


Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

I just want to tell you guys: this can be done - You just need to change your approach, the way you think, the way you react, change your focus and attitude.
Exactly.

Charging "high fees" is all in your head, not your clients. A big way you charge "high fees' is to not think of them as being high in the first place. If you think they are high, so will your client.

Sure, charging a $25,000 setup fee to some people is crazy. After all, a good percentage of the population makes that in an entire year. So to them, getting that in a day sounds like fantasy. But when you are going to make the business $200,000 suddenly the $25,000 isn't such a big deal.

I was recently talking to some friends about cars. We are all huge car nuts. They were telling me about a local car meet that was full of Lambos, Ferraris, and Porches and they were all "young kids" as they put it. They were late 20's early 30's. They couldn't understand how they could afford such cars. I said they weren't that expensive. They of course had the opposite argument. My one friend saying "to people that make $50,000 a year, that's expensive!"

Hah, well yeah! But not to the person making $500K. Reminds me of a favorite quote of mine, I believe it was said by Jim Rohn...

"It's not that the Ferrari is too expensive. It's just that you can't afford it."

I'm telling you guys and gals, it's all in YOUR head. I've spent the last 4-5 years working on my "inner game" and it has CHANGED MY LIFE! As I said earlier, charging "high fees" is more about how you view your fees than how the client does.

If you want a GREAT book to read on pricing, go get a book by Larry Steinmetz called "How To Sell At Prices Higher Than Your Competitors".

Incredible book! Must read.


Originally Posted by ijohnson View Post

COLD CALLING!!!!!!!!! COLD CALLING!!!!!!!!!! COLD CALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Cold calling" is my least favorite way to meet prospective clients to offer my services. In addition to networking, getting referrals and direct mail, what are some ways to approach a prospect to ensure that you will be "a welcomed guest" and not "an annoying pest"?

What approach renders the best results?

~Iris
Originally Posted by Sebulba View Post

I would appreciate some exploration of this subject myself.

Based on information on this thread, IE, being chased instead of chasing. The early frustration may be getting the ball rolling so then we are being pursued.

Some thoughts that come to my mind are a 3 letter series like Dan Kennedy talks so much about. AP mentioned something I think about using letters to get people into his funnel. The only contact information is the website, so that they go there and automatically are put into the sales process by signing up for an email series.
Cold calling can work. But I do NOT recommend it at all. It’s VERY bad positioning. Better to attract than to pursue.

Does your doctor call you up trying to get you to come into this office? No, you go to him. In fact, I bet if he did call you up, you’d question his abilities as a doctor.

He is an expert. That’s why you go to him and chase him down.

This is also why you want to be hard to get a hold of. If you’re so good at what you do, your schedule is backed up. You can’t fit someone in for a bit.

If a business owner calls you up and you answer and tell him you can meet him tomorrow at noon, you don’t sound like such an expert.

Think about it, if you needed heart surgery (not right this minute) would you take the doctor that said “Sure, come in today I have a spot open”? Doubt it.

If he was any good there would be a waiting period.

And the harder you are to get to, the more people will want to get to you. The more you act like you don’t want their money the more they will try and give it to you.

Be an expert and be hard to get a hold of. Doing this will allow you to charge “high” fees.

“There isn’t a long line for the guy at the bottom of the mountain.”


Originally Posted by ijohnson View Post

Yes, I'm also thinking about "warming up" my prospect with a series of letters or postcards that hit on ways they can make more money.

I think I would include a subtle call-to-action on each mailing. Hopefully, the business owner would contact me before the series of letters/postcards come to an end. If the prospect has not contacted me by the time the series ended, I would call him (or have my "secretary" call him) to set up an appointment to discuss the information I mailed to them and ask if they have any questions. I would then offer to come in and do a brief analysis of their business at no charge to them.

Those are just a few ideas I'm tossing around my head when it comes to my initial contact with a prospective client. Has anyone else done something similar to this. If so, what were your results? What would you do differently?

~Iris
Subtle? “Hopefully”

Your call to action should be clear and to the point. Period. Do not be subtle. Tell them exactly what to do. People are lazy. They aren’t going to get off their butt to call you unless you give them a damn good reason to. Being subtle isn’t going to work.

Hell, when I was selling mortgages, I remember one person not answering my calls and I was going to save him over $1,000 per month!! How stupid and lazy can you be?!

You need to be anything but subtle. Tell them EXACTLY what you want them to do and tell them to do it right now while it’s still fresh in their mind.

Don’t hope for anything. Use effective marketing that practically forces them to take action.

"If you don't have a system for selling, you are at the mercy of the prospects system for buying."

Problem is, most people don't have a system for buying. Which means they do nothing. Or, if they do have a system, it's a system for NOT buying.


Originally Posted by MarketingNinja View Post

Brilliant! I love it. It's so funny how you can just shift perception like that. I would have never thought of that before. Thanks!

Jeff.
Thanks. It’s a very useful skill I have acquired. Comes in handy.



Alright, that’s all she wrote. I could post so much more. But I honestly don’t have the time. And if there are some errors, please forgive me. It's 3 am where I'm at and it's been a very long past few days.

Just remember, it's not as hard as you think. You'd be amazed at what a fresh pair of eyes can do for a business. A lot of this is just logical. A lot of it can be figured out by just asking the right questions. The act of answering the right questions will do wonders for you and make some things so obvious it's not even funny.

Hopefully you got some value out of the above post. If so, you know what to do.

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:37 AM   #853
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

People want what they can't have.

~AP
This right here seems so subtle and "yeah, I've heard that a million times before". But it's one of those tid bits of information that can completely change your business if you actually utilize it.

People want what they can't have. And the more they can't have it the more they want it.

Why do so many women want those high end designer purses and shoes? Because they can't have them because they cost so much. Some even go as far as saving up money just to buy a damn $3,000 Gucci purse. They didn't want the purse. They wanted the status that comes along with it and everything that goes along with being "able" to own a Gucci purse. At the end of the day, it's not much better than a $50 purse.

Also, it's important to point out, that if you were to go shopping in a store that sells those fancy purses, notice how they don't really care if you can afford it or not. It's like "Here it is, and here is the outrageous price. If you want it, great, take it. If not, who cares. Someone else will buy it who can afford it".

Same thing applies when marketing yourself. If you are so damn good at helping businesses make money, and make it hard for them to get a hold of you, and act like you could care less about their money (you really shouldn't care, it shouldn't be an "act"), they will make it their mission to hire you. Even when you charge thousands of dollars. The harder it is to get a hold of you the less fee resistance there will be...if there even is any. They'll just be happy to get a hold of you.

Takeaway selling is so powerful.

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:57 AM   #854
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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WOW! I actually made it to the end of this thread... so far! Every time I think I'm getting close, 2 more pages pop up - which speaks to the incredible contributions and value being shared by everyone here.

Here are the gold nuggets I'm implementing this week:
- keep it simple
- remember that THEY need me
- limit access to me
- believe that I already know all I need to start making a considerable difference for my clients

So funny... the more techniques and tactics I learn from everyone here (all truly valuable), the more it comes back to my MINDSET (just like it was emphasized VERY early in the thread)
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:08 AM   #855
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Vagabond 007 View Post

...Everyone is not your customer. Do you think it would be wise for a Lamborghini dealership to send direct mail to houses with incomes of $50,000 or less? No, of course not. It’s not their market. Same thing applies in any business...
Awesome post Vagabond!

This part really hit a homerun for me, as I often have to explain repeatedly to business owners that "everyone" is NOT their target market.

They always seem to come back with "we have something for everyone!"

Noooooo you don't have something for "everyone" you have something for those that are LOOKING for what you have.

I'll def. use that example in my meetings should I need to make it very simple for them. =)

Cheers,

~Dexx
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:11 AM   #856
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This thread is just INSANE!

By the way, if you want more marketing education, I found out
this great site by Perry Marshall:

The Rules of Selling Have Changed! Marketing Toolkit and Coaching System

Take a look at the left hand navigation bar, and you will
see that he has 21 marketing lessons.

I found it interesting that Perry says the same things that AP
and Vagabond are telling us about positioning, marketing message,
pricing, etc.

Learning from the masters is always the way to go.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:23 AM   #857
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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This is a great thread and there's lots of great advice being offered.

I'm going to give it a quick 'reality check' just in case some people really do think statements like "do these things and you WILL increase their sales by 20% minimum" are to be taken as facts.

I said this here about 5 years ago when the subject of 'marketing to offline businesses' was on it's second big revival in the forum.

There are many businesses that will happily pay you good money to do SEM for them - that are NOT EXPECTING YOU TO INCREASE THEIR SALES!

Yeah - you read that right.

There are many reasons for doing marketing and I learned this a long time ago (when my head was full of seo, ppc etc.. and I thought it 'applies to everyone').

Many businesses get their business from relationship marketing - they already know the people in their market and their sales have a long lead time (months, maybe even a year or more) as they're dealing with big fish who have big internal systems to operate through and many people to sign off on budget for projects.

The fact that they're not expecting a website to get them more sales doesn't mean they don't want one - it just means that it's purpose is more branding and supporting their message and providing collateral and information to clients.

I've even come across companies that don't want to be found in the search engines - their customers already know them and the website is there because people expect one - the less it shows up where competitors see it - the better.

Why am I sharing this?

Because if you think all companies want/need the standard dog and pony show where you go on about autoresponders and search marketing - it will turn them off and make you look stupid as you're showing you have no idea what big businesses want. (I've also seen this on relatively small businesses too)

So, if you're thinking of getting started helping offline businesses - that's great - just don't get your head full of IM stuff and forget that you have 2 ears and one mouth - Before you start telling them how you can increase their sales and improve their ROI etc, sit down and get to know them. Find out why they want a website and what they think it can do for their business.

Many times you'll find that they are non-techies and if you talk about rss they'll just hear 'blah blah blah', but they're not stupid and they will usually do business with you based on their impression of you rather than the technical details of 'how' you say you can do it.

It's easy to get ahead of yourself and start talking about stuff they don't understand, so listen first - then describe what things you can impact based on what they've told you. The last resort is to start talking about the details of linking, bookmarking, local search etc....

If you get someone in the room who is just interested in that stuff - you can blow them away with your knowledge, but keep it in reserve - they don't know or care about most of it.

Please take this in the spirit it is meant - to improve your approach to getting bigger business deals with your skills, and not as me throwing a spanner in your excitement.

Your warrior friend.

Andy

nothing to see here.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:48 AM   #858
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


I've even come across companies that don't want to be found in the search engines - their customers already know them and the website is there because people expect one - the less it shows up where competitors see it - the better.

Why am I sharing this?

Because if you think all companies want/need the standard dog and pony show where you go on about autoresponders and search marketing - it will turn them off and make you look stupid as you're showing you have no idea what big businesses want. (I've also seen this on relatively small businesses too)

So, if you're thinking of getting started helping offline businesses - that's great - just don't get your head full of IM stuff and forget that you have 2 ears and one mouth - Before you start telling them how you can increase their sales and improve their ROI etc, sit down and get to know them. Find out why they want a website and what they think it can do for their business.
Andy,

Some great points here. Going into meetings with preconceived ideas of what a prospect/client wants is a BIG mistake.

Ideas on what could work for them will come from your questioning - and from the gold dust on this thread we should all have plenty of ideas on what questions to be asking business owners.

Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

Many times you'll find that they are non-techies and if you talk about rss they'll just hear 'blah blah blah', but they're not stupid and they will usually do business with you based on their impression of you rather than the technical details of 'how' you say you can do it.

It's easy to get ahead of yourself and start talking about stuff they don't understand, so listen first - then describe what things you can impact based on what they've told you. The last resort is to start talking about the details of linking, bookmarking, local search etc....

If you get someone in the room who is just interested in that stuff - you can blow them away with your knowledge, but keep it in reserve - they don't know or care about most of it.

Please take this in the spirit it is meant - to improve your approach to getting bigger business deals with your skills, and not as me throwing a spanner in your excitement.

Your warrior friend.

Andy
Again, sound advice. This is potentially part of our role - to take the complexity (not to mention the time) away from them so that they concentrate on running their business using their expertise, instead of worrying about the technicalities.

As Andy says, if someone's interested in it then give them a little more insight.

But perhaps an approach such as "I'll implement strategies that will make your website work harder for you" or something similar may be better than "I'll install an autoresponder, do some link building, have RSS feeds... etc, etc"

Simon
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:50 AM   #859
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@ Andyhenry,

And Andy... nice to see you again. I did meet you briefly at one of Robert Puddy's seminars (I think you're avatar is from that very event perhaps?)

As you can see, this has developed into one of those monster offline threads and some of the contributions have been immense - truly inspiring.

Simon
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 04:01 AM   #860
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

I'll give you an example how screwed up companies are. I signed a 2M per year company for $55,000 year one, $3,497 thereafter per month. The 1st thing I had them do was ANSWER their phones with a REAL person instead of going straight to Voice-mail. Their sales immediately jumped 1M dollars. That's right, I knew before we met what their Achilles heal was.
Wow what a great example ... just imagine how much money you could make if you brought OK companies, improved their processes and sold them as great companies.

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 04:09 AM   #861
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Comments in Blue.

Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

This is a great thread and there's lots of great advice being offered.

I'm going to give it a quick 'reality check' just in case some people really do think statements like "do these things and you WILL increase their sales by 20% minimum" are to be taken as facts.

Fact it is, when taken in the context of what we were talking about.

We are discussing mostly Small business owners doing $500k to 1.5M for most of the new guys here. Follow what I said and 10% is the minimum in 95% of the cases you will face. 20% is very achievable if the company has an existing list to work from. Yes, you need to use reasonable expectations and due diligence. This is why we use a Questionnaire.


I said this here about 5 years ago when the subject of 'marketing to offline businesses' was on it's second big revival in the forum.

There are many businesses that will happily pay you good money to do SEM for them - that are NOT EXPECTING YOU TO INCREASE THEIR SALES!

For most of the companies that are being discussed here, that is not the case.

Yeah - you read that right.

There are many reasons for doing marketing and I learned this a long time ago (when my head was full of seo, ppc etc.. and I thought it 'applies to everyone').

I completely agree with that statement.

Many businesses get their business from relationship marketing - they already know the people in their market and their sales have a long lead time (months, maybe even a year or more) as they're dealing with big fish who have big internal systems to operate through and many people to sign off on budget for projects.

Very few, if any of us have discussed Whales.

The fact that they're not expecting a website to get them more sales doesn't mean they don't want one - it just means that it's purpose is more branding and supporting their message and providing collateral and information to clients.

I've even come across companies that don't want to be found in the search engines - their customers already know them and the website is there because people expect one - the less it shows up where competitors see it - the better.

I've had this happen also. In fact, I don't market my website. That's right. I target my prospects, I don't want to work with just anyone.

Why am I sharing this?

Because if you think all companies want/need the standard dog and pony show where you go on about autoresponders and search marketing - it will turn them off and make you look stupid as you're showing you have no idea what big businesses want. (I've also seen this on relatively small businesses too)

Yep, I've stressed this many times. I go in with a Clean Slate. I have NO idea what a companies problems may be. My Questionnaire does all the work. I just ask the questions and Listen.

So, if you're thinking of getting started helping offline businesses - that's great - just don't get your head full of IM stuff and forget that you have 2 ears and one mouth - Before you start telling them how you can increase their sales and improve their ROI etc, sit down and get to know them. Find out why they want a website and what they think it can do for their business.

I've stressed to many here, over and over, don't talk IM crap. Fix the company from the Inside out. Find the problems and the Profit leaks and fix them.

Many times you'll find that they are non-techies and if you talk about rss they'll just hear 'blah blah blah', but they're not stupid and they will usually do business with you based on their impression of you rather than the technical details of 'how' you say you can do it.

Don't speak tech ever, keep it simple.

It's easy to get ahead of yourself and start talking about stuff they don't understand, so listen first - then describe what things you can impact based on what they've told you. The last resort is to start talking about the details of linking, bookmarking, local search etc....

I see this with Newbies ALL the time. I've gone on some JV's and OMG, you should have seen the look on the business owners face.

If you get someone in the room who is just interested in that stuff - you can blow them away with your knowledge, but keep it in reserve - they don't know or care about most of it.

Please take this in the spirit it is meant - to improve your approach to getting bigger business deals with your skills, and not as me throwing a spanner in your excitement.

I'll take it as a helpful post. Please remember most members in this thread are starting out and dealing with small co's who need Increased profits. Some are on life support.

Your warrior friend.

Andy
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 04:59 AM   #862
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by DaveHughes View Post

A merchant account (credit card processor) card machine (what you swipe your card through at check-out) can be configured to print out a "coupon" for the customer to fill out with their email address, which signs them up for a "special discount" mailing list when they fill it out and hand it back in.

It's the offline credit card version of a squeeze page.
Yes, I think this is better than just having a message on the till roll, as people tend to stuff them in their pockets or wallets without looking.

Uptake is better in both instances if staff are trianed to point it out and encourage participation.

The idea of a separate voucher is a good one; thanks for that suggestion. A business could have a special sign up table nearby (with pens at hand), so people are more likely to sign up there and then.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 06:02 AM   #863
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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AP

At what stage in the process do you send them your physical book ?
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 06:03 AM   #864
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Wow

It's taken me a long time to read all the posts that were added since I was on yesterday.

Thank you so much, folks; really valuable stuff, and inspiring - questions and answers both.

I'm going to a Chamber breakfast meeting (yes, the breakfast, talk and networking for £12 one) on Friday.

I haven't been for a few months (hospital), so am hoping there will be people I don't know or only know a bit. One of my challenges is that many know me from years back as a copywriter (which I was when I went to work for myself). Really, I need to relaunch.

I am now well enough to work for about three days a week, but I don't want people in town to see me as anything other than fit and healthy and as busy as I want (not need) to be, so appearing to be booked up is a good idea, thanks.

On the plus side, I'm seen as a good person to come to for ideas and I need to harness that with my new hat on: the expert-scarcity one I'm learning to adopt.

I want to printy out and wear a name badge that shows my benefits. Does anyone have ideas what I could put on it to make people ask me questions?

I have run out of business cards, so will print off some A5 flyers (about the size of US legal pad folded in half) with something on. I'm undecided about whether to get people to my signup page, or to an offer on my services - or whether to split test.

What would you suggest given that I need clients now?

I understand about making people come to you, and in the past I've operated entirely on referrals or people approaching me...but my wallet is empty. I need to get some short-termism in with long term plans.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 06:57 AM   #865
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Originally Posted by 12as24 View Post


I hope you found my contribution thought-provoking and helpful; however, I need some help from you. I am perhaps one of the youngest warrior forum members at 15 years old and am clueless as to how I should approach businesses. I am uncertain whether business owners will even bother to sympathize with someone my age, and not just ask me to leave. I have had 1.5 years of experience with internet marketing, but I am unsure of how to muster the confidence to actually contact these businesses. I'm not sure if the suit-and-tie approach will work because the business owners will think I am in over my head. Please advise on how I should overcome this confidence problem, or hire B2B salesmen. I am in the process of recruiting a VA to train right now but am simply clueless as to how I can get past this brick wall?:confused:

Thanks in advance,

Ayush
I think some of the other people who responded to this were right about the possibility of actually capitalizing on your unique situation. That said, if you're really having some problems with this stumbling block, you might consider taking on a partner at first, at least until you get going. Somebody older with some real sales skills and charisma who isn't quite as polished as you in IM. Partnerships can be a headache--especially when you're confident in doing it all yourself--but it might be a good solution to get moving forward.

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 07:56 AM   #866
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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I think if you read the whole thread, you will realize many of us are PM hyper-responsives to start with. He is perhaps best known as the 'Adwords guy' but he cut his teeth on B2B marketing. With Googles latest unpredictable behavior, he appears to have gone back to sharing all kinds of marketing more. I suspect his focus will always be PPC, after all that is what he knows best, but he ain't no dummy. Engineer background that took a lot of engineering basics into the A+ personality sales world and raised the bar. If I remember correctly, AP has a lot in common with him, I know they know each other. I consider Perry to be one of the most approachable, ethical, intelligent and systematic guys on the net today. (As well as Glen Livingston).

Much the same could be said of AP and about 200 other people in this forum that you might not realize (hell, THEY might not realize) have a wider audience than they know. 1st time I heard Wag's name was at an off-line marketing convention. People talked about him as if he was a 'guru'. Imagine my surprise to see just another guy who wears his feelings on his sleeve trying to make a living, here. (yeah, I was star struck!) When you walk the walk, more people notice than you think. You may not always be aware of it, but here you are more often than not in the presence of giants.

Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta View Post

This thread is just INSANE!

By the way, if you want more marketing education, I found out
this great site by Perry Marshall:

The Rules of Selling Have Changed! Marketing Toolkit and Coaching System

Take a look at the left hand navigation bar, and you will
see that he has 21 marketing lessons.

I found it interesting that Perry says the same things that AP
and Vagabond are telling us about positioning, marketing message,
pricing, etc.

Learning from the masters is always the way to go.

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 08:10 AM   #867
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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AP,

Quick question...

Do you do the writing of the autoresponders, newsletters, blog posts, and press releases? I'm wondering what you leave in your clients hands (and does it get done), and what you do so that it gets done and gets done effectively e.g. sales related copy for the autoresponders and emails.

Thanks again for your participation and ideas!
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 08:14 AM   #868
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He probably yells at them

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 09:30 AM   #869
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

Give me $50k and I'll give you all my Secrets

~AP
LOL!!!!!!

But, seriously, you (AP) and so many more Warriors have really poured your hearts out and the contents of your brains, too, to help those of us new to offline marketing make a go of it. The information you all have shared is worth more than $50,000! As a matter of fact, if we implement what has been shared within the confines of this thread, we could probably make $50,000+ a year.

To wake up this morning to see a continuation of good stuff (after I called it a night at 2:15am) whereby you all are expanding on other posts and making things clearer and more doable is an awesome start to a great day!

~Iris

Make every day count!

Last edited on 2nd Feb 2010 at 09:32 AM. Reason: wording
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:06 AM   #870
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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My IM career (if that's what you can call it, because unfortunately it was more like a hobby until a few months ago) started with a lot of reading and absorbing and doing half ass tests of different things but not really putting anything into full gear. I then started working with a local chiropractor (who I go to) for free totally changing his website (making it more dynamic and user interactive), putting him on google, autoresponder, etc etc. That was all for FREE :/

However, now I've asked him to refer me, and he said he's mailing a newsletter out to 800 patients and he wouldn't mind including a insert or something - What would be the best thing to give him to put his newsletter - postcard, a free report, a letter?? Please- any ideas would help! I'm semi-paralyzed at the thought of something going out to that many people!
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:08 AM   #871
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Also, just to give others (and myself) hope, in late October I attented a local networking conference and through that I was able to land a 1500/month client!!! I was with my husband though and he is a much better schmoozer and it really was the follow up afterwards that landed him. But still, gives me hope. My goal is to reach 10 K a month by the end of the year (thru a mixture of consulting and info marketing).


Now, my issue is just getting those new clients. I like the idea AP gives of the letter that mentions the competitors and lists that only one will be exclusive per area. AP, I wasn't able to find anything on the dunning mailer on google really? Do you have any resources that you would recommend for that? Thanks!
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:31 AM   #872
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Originally Posted by Rabeeha Khan View Post

I like the idea AP gives of the letter that mentions the competitors and lists that only one will be exclusive per area. AP, I wasn't able to find anything on the dunning mailer on google really? Do you have any resources that you would recommend for that? Thanks!
Rabeeha,

The "Dunn Letter" is a letter that demands something. It is usually used by collections agencies to "hound" a debtor by insisting or demanding that they pay a bill.

I imagine there are different variations of it used in marketing to get across your message.

Maybe someone can elaborate further or post an example of one.

~Iris

Make every day count!
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:43 AM   #873
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There is one additional thing I forgot to mention about the Dunn Letter. It is a method used by collections agencies and in marketing whereby there are a series of letters mailed out. Each letter beefs up the message more than the one before or becomes more insistent or demanding as far as it's call-to-action.

So, if I were to use the Dunning method for offline marketing, I would send a prospect a series of letters (either via snail mail or email) asking them to call me or contact me to benefit from the services I offer. I would send them these letters (maybe 3 - 4 letters) within a set period of time (maybe 10 - 14 days) with the last letter probably stating that I will only work with one client in that niche/market and if he wanted to be the one, he better act on my letter TODAY!

So, that's how I would use the Dunning method for direct marketing to prospective clients.

Hope that helps.

~Iris

Make every day count!

Last edited on 6th Feb 2010 at 06:58 PM. Reason: wording -- used "beefs us" instead of "beefs up"
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:56 AM   #874
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Originally Posted by Rabeeha Khan View Post

AP, I wasn't able to find anything on the dunning mailer on google really? Do you have any resources that you would recommend for that? Thanks!
I couldn't find this in Google either, but it looks like John McCabe gave a decent breakdown of this on the first page of the thread. AP dropped a "thanks" on it, so I figure that was his was of saying "Yep, that's the gist of it.

I was going to re-paste it here for you, but I'd hate to eat up any space on an already huge thread, so go over there and check it out.

Cheers,
James

Edit: Sounds like Iris has got the idea down pretty good too. I wouldn't mind hearing some more one what people are doing with this either, so if anyone has some resources, it'd be great to see them.

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:57 AM   #875
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Thanks Iris!

Interesting...I do actually have a mailing list of about 18000 businesses within a decent driving distance to me (since that's where I'd like to start out) - I was originally going to send them a postcard but the wording of the postcard that I was going to use was just not me (not that I have accurately determined what "ME" is yet, but I just didnt' want to send them an obnoxious postcard and then have no means to follow up so I do like the letter technique - Do you think a combination of the postcard / letter would work?


Also, what would be best for my chiropractor? To include a letter from me introducing my services and also letting them know that I will be doing exclusive contracts per area? Or a free report from me? I'm still trying to brainstorm that out. In these kind of referred mailings, what methods have people had success with?

Last edited on 2nd Feb 2010 at 10:58 AM. Reason: typo
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 10:57 AM   #876
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Hey Dexx,

I've really been considering hard the title of "Business Success Coach". The whole point being that what you're doing is more than just marketing, and the majority of marketing consultants couldn't begin to touch on the topics that you'll be able to help business owners with.

Like AP talks about working from the inside first with training of staff and even recommending the replacement of staff. That's stuff that a normal "marketing consultant" is not going to do. That's the tough love stuff that a "coach" will do.

Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

hrmm...I'm thinking of rebranding myself as a "Direct Response Marketing Consultant" but I don't know if businesses will truly grasp what that is...

I would do just "marketing consultant" but thats sound so generic and "ohh...ya we've dealt with those"... need a USP-type title! Benefit driven!

Perhaps "Marketing Analysis Consultant"?

Since we analyze their existing marketing, and show them strategies to improve it for the best results?

~Dexx

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:06 AM   #877
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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What do you guys think about sending emails rather than real physical letters?

Does a physical letter provide a more professional and personal touch that would increase conversion rates?

Or could we apply AP's method of direct mailing to email to get the attention of business owners?
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:33 AM   #878
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Email basically says you're too cheap and lazy to spend the time and actually mail an introduction piece to your prospects.

How much spam mail do you get a day from people you don't know that you actually read?

I know myself if I see a name and a subject line that even remotely resembles a spam-marketing message I just delete it without opening...not to mention there is a good chance your emails will automatically go in their junk/delete folder anyway.

So ya, if you're going to contact a BUSINESS OWNER than at least do it in the most professional way possible.

Least thats my thoughts on it =)

~Dexx
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:38 AM   #879
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Originally Posted by Rabeeha Khan View Post

However, now I've asked him to refer me, and he said he's mailing a newsletter out to 800 patients and he wouldn't mind including a insert or something - What would be the best thing to give him to put his newsletter - postcard, a free report, a letter?? Please- any ideas would help! I'm semi-paralyzed at the thought of something going out to that many people!
What I'd like to see for you from this chiro, is a personalized hand written testimonial from him that he includes in this mailing.

You've done a ton and rather than just have you give him an insert he needs to do something personalized and beneficial for you. A testimonial from him where he praises your work and addresses that to his list will be that much stronger.

Plus, I think that's the least he can do. Though having said that, this might be a case of not valuing what you get for free. Perhaps he is not valuing you as much as he should because you did the work for free. Another reason not to work for free.

Hope this helps,

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:44 AM   #880
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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As AP and others have been so generous in sharing some of their docs and best practices I'm going to show you one that I have been using for over 10 years. This little "document" and process has saved me countless amounts of time and money. You might want to consider it for your own best practices. It's called:

THE PRODUCTION NOTICE.

Ever wonder a good way to get clients to "sign off" on stuff (design, copy, agreements etc.)? This little "Production Notice" process is simple and efficient. You use it when you or your staff/VA is sending anything tangible you want your client to approve (sign off on).

Here's what it looks like:

---------------------------------------------------
Email Subject: Production Email – ACTION REQUIRED!
Email Attachment: Your attachment
Email Content: As follows...
---------------------------------------------------

Please view the provided email attachment and follow one of these steps:

Step 1) If the provided attachment has been completed to your satisfaction please reply to this email with "Approved " in the subject line.

or

Step 2) If the provided attachment has not been completed to your satisfaction please reply to this email with "Edits" in the subject line along with instructions for your desired edits.

IMPORTANT: By giving your Approval, you are “signing off” on this stage of the project and indicating you would like us to proceed to the next stage. An additional fee may be required if changes are requested after your Approval is given depending on how far we have to back track. Please contact us if you have any questions about this process.


How to use the Production Notice:
  1. Open a new email
  2. Add your attachment
  3. Copy/paste the above Production Notice into email
  4. Send to client
Why use the Production Notice:
  • Save time: Canned messages save time in performing repetitive tasks
  • Save money: When a client "Approves" your attachment, you are in a position to charge additional fees (if you wish) should they change their mind
  • Protect Yourself: If the attachment has an error (like a typo in a print piece) you are absolved of the blame because the client gave approval
  • Protect your Client: If the attachment is obviously flawed and is an error on the part of you or your staff then your client has the chance to "Edit" and get exactly what they want
  • Be Professional: Clients who get this see you have a professional system in place to handle a common process
  • Easy to use: Any staff member or VA can be trained in 2 minutes flat to use this procedure
Legal Disclaimer:

I have NO IDEA whether an email from my client with their response of "Approved" would hold up in a court of law so use this at your own risk. All I know is that using the Production Notice sets a very clear understanding in whats been done, whats been signed off on and whats next in any given project. All of which minimizes the occurrence and frequency of scope creep, misunderstandings and wasted time.

That's me. Hope this helps streamline some of your production processes.

Cheers.


Last edited on 2nd Feb 2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: clarity
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:46 AM   #881
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta View Post

What do you guys think about sending emails rather than real physical letters?

Does a physical letter provide a more professional and personal touch that would increase conversion rates?

Or could we apply AP's method of direct mailing to email to get the attention of business owners?

It's interesting that real paper mail with a stamp on it now has more credibility than it had in many years, since email has taken the place of junk mail.

Real paper mail can be very cost effective and powerful when done right.

Seb

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:47 AM   #882
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by mktmkr View Post

So funny... the more techniques and tactics I learn from everyone here (all truly valuable), the more it comes back to my MINDSET (just like it was emphasized VERY early in the thread)
I keep telling people how important having the proper mindset is. The ones who get it will be successful. The ones who don't, well, there the ones who will always be looking for the next magic bullet.

Truth is, YOU are the magic bullet. But everyone is always looking outside of themselves for the answer to everything. That's backwards. Everything starts from the inside out.

Most people ignore this because it sounds too weird.

Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

Awesome post Vagabond!

This part really hit a homerun for me, as I often have to explain repeatedly to business owners that "everyone" is NOT their target market.

They always seem to come back with "we have something for everyone!"

Noooooo you don't have something for "everyone" you have something for those that are LOOKING for what you have.

I'll def. use that example in my meetings should I need to make it very simple for them. =)

Cheers,

~Dexx
Glad you liked it.

As you found, most business owners think everyone is their client. Very bad thinking. It's a waste of time and money to market to everyone. The message to market match is off.

And yes, use it in your next meeting. I love analogies. For some reason people "get" things when you use analogies. It's like all of the sudden it makes sense.

Originally Posted by ijohnson View Post

Rabeeha,

The "Dunn Letter" is a letter that demands something. It is usually used by collections agencies to "hound" a debtor by insisting or demanding that they pay a bill.
Originally Posted by ijohnson View Post

There is one additional thing I forgot to mention about the Dunn Letter. It is a method used by collections agencies and in marketing whereby there are a series of letters mailed out. Each letter beefs us the message more than the one before or becomes more insistent or demanding as far as it's call-to-action.
You pretty much nailed it. Good job.

They work so well because of the psychology behind them. Which in their case is urgency and scarcity. Two VERY powerful forces.

Remember, people want what they can't have. So if getting something has a time limit on it, it forces them to take action or they'll miss out.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 11:48 AM   #883
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Rabeeha Khan View Post

My IM career (if that's what you can call it, because unfortunately it was more like a hobby until a few months ago) started with a lot of reading and absorbing and doing half ass tests of different things but not really putting anything into full gear. I then started working with a local chiropractor (who I go to) for free totally changing his website (making it more dynamic and user interactive), putting him on google, autoresponder, etc etc. That was all for FREE :/

However, now I've asked him to refer me, and he said he's mailing a newsletter out to 800 patients and he wouldn't mind including a insert or something - What would be the best thing to give him to put his newsletter - postcard, a free report, a letter?? Please- any ideas would help! I'm semi-paralyzed at the thought of something going out to that many people!
Hi Rabeeha,

Does your chiropractor's patient list include a lot of business owners? The reason I ask is, if they are not, they might wonder why an insertion is included in the mailing for business consulting services from their chiropractor. I think I would. Something like that is not usually included in something from a chiropractor, in general.

If your chiropractor leads in or mentions somewhere in his newsletter a few words to capture the attention of any business owners on his list that might make more sense (at least to the recipients of the newsletter).

For example, he could include a quick blurb in his newsletter that says "If You Own A Business and Have Been Feeling the Effects of the Current Economy, You Might Be Interested in ..." (then insert something referencing your postcard, letter, or free report).

Regarding what you can insert, a postcard seems like it would be ideal. The reason I say that is because people tend to read postcards because they know it won't take a lot of time. Plus, your credibility is already being given a boost because it's included with your chiropractor's newsletter, and particularly if he includes a few words within the newsletter referencing your info.

Just my thoughts ... perhaps someone else can chime in on copy ideas for whatever you decide to use, i.e., letter, postcard, etc.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:07 PM   #884
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Comments in Blue.

Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

I think if you read the whole thread, you will realize many of us are PM hyper-responsives to start with. He is perhaps best known as the 'Adwords guy' but he cut his teeth on B2B marketing.

Perry definitely cut his teeth on the B2B market. He was forced to increase sales at his small engineering company and he decided to hold seminars and teach other engineers. It was an instant success. I have the 1st mailer he ever sent.

Perry said all of us IMers are Misfits. He's proud to be one. He says were all a little quirky.

With Googles latest unpredictable behavior, he appears to have gone back to sharing all kinds of marketing more. I suspect his focus will always be PPC, after all that is what he knows best, but he ain't no dummy.

Perry has publicly spoken negatively about the way Google has handled everything. Perry worked with Affiliate marketers who lost millions of income overnight.

Perry has branched out to other areas. He understands the Worst number is #1 of anything. Dan Kennedy taught us well.


He is now pushing people into the Content Network and other Paid Traffic sources not related to Google.

Engineer background that took a lot of engineering basics into the A+ personality sales world and raised the bar. If I remember correctly, AP has a lot in common with him, I know they know each other.

We sure do, I speak to Perry about once every 6 weeks.

I consider Perry to be one of the most approachable, ethical, intelligent and systematic guys on the net today. (As well as Glen Livingston).

I think Perry is the Marketer to follow, Glen 2nd, then Ken McCarthy. Follow these 3 and you don't need anyone else.

Much the same could be said of AP and about 200 other people in this forum that you might not realize (hell, THEY might not realize) have a wider audience than they know. 1st time I heard Wag's name was at an off-line marketing convention. People talked about him as if he was a 'guru'. Imagine my surprise to see just another guy who wears his feelings on his sleeve trying to make a living, here. (yeah, I was star struck!) When you walk the walk, more people notice than you think. You may not always be aware of it, but here you are more often than not in the presence of giants.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:10 PM   #885
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Sebulba View Post

It's interesting that real paper mail with a stamp on it now has more credibility than it had in many years, since email has taken the place of junk mail.

Real paper mail can be very cost effective and powerful when done right.

Seb


I recently emailed a bunch of prospects based on a WSO i had bought (researched their websites, then sent them an email) - it just didnt feel right..I emailed about 25 and 2 did reply to me, but I don't know if I should do that anymore -- mail might be better. Plus after reading this thread, I think when you email you come off more as a pursuer than the pursed. What does everyone else think?
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:14 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by sammymar View Post

AP,

Quick question...

Do you do the writing of the autoresponders, newsletters, blog posts, and press releases? I'm wondering what you leave in your clients hands (and does it get done), and what you do so that it gets done and gets done effectively e.g. sales related copy for the autoresponders and emails.

Thanks again for your participation and ideas!
I do very little manual work. I do the Google and Yahoo! maps myself because I don't want any screw-ups.

In regards to Auto responders, newsletter and Press releases I outsource everything to North American VA's. My Filipinos do more manual type labor.

I need someone who speaks English and has the proper grammar. US & Canada only.

With blog post it's a combo of the owner, myself, and outsource.

~AP
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:17 PM   #887
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Originally Posted by Rabeeha Khan View Post

My IM career (if that's what you can call it, because unfortunately it was more like a hobby until a few months ago) started with a lot of reading and absorbing and doing half ass tests of different things but not really putting anything into full gear. I then started working with a local chiropractor (who I go to) for free totally changing his website (making it more dynamic and user interactive), putting him on google, autoresponder, etc etc. That was all for FREE :/

However, now I've asked him to refer me, and he said he's mailing a newsletter out to 800 patients and he wouldn't mind including a insert or something - What would be the best thing to give him to put his newsletter - postcard, a free report, a letter?? Please- any ideas would help! I'm semi-paralyzed at the thought of something going out to that many people!
Bigtime Chiropractor marketer: http://www.benaltadonna.com/

As in Biggest in the World.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:19 PM   #888
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by EMaria View Post

Hi Rabeeha,

Does your chiropractor's patient list include a lot of business owners? The reason I ask is, if they are not, they might wonder why an insertion is included in the mailing for business consulting services from their chiropractor. I think I would. Something like that is not usually included in something from a chiropractor, in general.

If your chiropractor leads in or mentions somewhere in his newsletter a few words to capture the attention of any business owners on his list that might make more sense (at least to the recipients of the newsletter).

For example, he could include a quick blurb in his newsletter that says "If You Own A Business and Have Been Feeling the Effects of the Current Economy, You Might Be Interested in ..." (then insert something referencing your postcard, letter, or free report).

Regarding what you can insert, a postcard seems like it would be ideal. The reason I say that is because people tend to read postcards because they know it won't take a lot of time. Plus, your credibility is already being given a boost because it's included with your chiropractor's newsletter, and particularly if he includes a few words within the newsletter referencing your info.

Just my thoughts ... perhaps someone else can chime in on copy ideas for whatever you decide to use, i.e., letter, postcard, etc.
Hi Maria,

Yes a lot of them are business owners (not all, but a lot). I think you are right regarding the personal testimonial from him - I think that would work well esepcially since he has a personal relationship with almost all of his patients. Perhaps a testimonial from him with a postcard in the insert (or a business card) with a call to action to visit the website and get a free report?
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:20 PM   #889
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I forgot to add this to my long post above.

"The need to make whatever they buy free."

Everything needs to pay for itself. The amount you charge is largely determined by what their transaction size is and how you make the argument that they are going to make the money back.

Some examples...

New windows pay for themselves after X months because of the savings in your energy costs.

New pots and pans will pay for themselves because now you can cook at home instead of eating out 3-4 times a week.

Etc.

In our case, like I have (and others) mentioned before, if you you charge them $25,000 a year but yet you make them $100,000 you are essentially free. It didn't cost them anything.

There is even the argument that it would cost them money if they DIDN'T hire you.

The old "you can't afford not to do this".

So make what you're selling "free". Make your fees self funding. SHOW THEM how in X amount of months they will make X amount of dollars so it's actually not costing them anything to hire you.

The Ultimate Sales & Marketing Mind Map (Just updated - now twice as big!) - scott_krech - "Quite possibly one of the BEST WSO's ever."

www.UltimateMindMap.com


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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:24 PM   #890
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Ok guys this is one of the people I had emailed (ugh still feel yucky after doing that!). How do I deal with someone like this -- since I feel uncomfortable guaranteeing any placements and I do believe the value I offer is much more than just search engine placement:

"I would be interested to hear what you have to say if it is a keyword search internet advertising w/guaranteed placement or clicks only."
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:30 PM   #891
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Rabeeha Khan View Post

Ok guys this is one of the people I had emailed (ugh still feel yucky after doing that!). How do I deal with someone like this -- since I feel uncomfortable guaranteeing any placements and I do believe the value I offer is much more than just search engine placement:

"I would be interested to hear what you have to say if it is a keyword search internet advertising w/guaranteed placement or clicks only."
Depends on what your email said. However, he says that he'd be interested in what you have to say so set the appointment and go ask him questions as described many times in this thread. You have NOTHING to lose and a lot to learn by meeting with this guy. REMEMBER the CONFIDENCE thing... Good luck!
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:42 PM   #892
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Comments in Blue.

Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta View Post

What do you guys think about sending emails rather than real physical letters?

I can tell you I get a 5% response rate on email blast. Yep, 5%. Many times I get a higher response. I use a sequenced email blast, 3x.

The ROI is astronomical.
Thru the Roof.
Targeted Traffic is the Key.

Does a physical letter provide a more professional and personal touch that would increase conversion rates?

Yes, a physical letter is better. I definitely start some chit here with other WF so-called gurus. I avg a 15% response rate with a physical letter. This is a sequence of letters spread over 3 mailings. The 15% is cumulative.

Or could we apply AP's method of direct mailing to email to get the attention of business owners?

The PROCESS is all important when doing any of the above. You need the right Copy, the proper CTA, and the right Offer.

This is not something I could teach here.


~AP
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:43 PM   #893
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great info this gave me a lot of ideas.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 01:50 PM   #894
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Vagabond 007 View Post

I forgot to add this to my long post above.

"The need to make whatever they buy free."

Everything needs to pay for itself. The amount you charge is largely determined by what their transaction size is and how you make the argument that they are going to make the money back.

Some examples...

New windows pay for themselves after X months because of the savings in your energy costs.

New pots and pans will pay for themselves because now you can cook at home instead of eating out 3-4 times a week.

Etc.

In our case, like I have (and others) mentioned before, if you you charge them $25,000 a year but yet you make them $100,000 you are essentially free. It didn't cost them anything.

There is even the argument that it would cost them money if they DIDN'T hire you.

The old "you can't afford not to do this".

So make what you're selling "free". Make your fees self funding. SHOW THEM how in X amount of months they will make X amount of dollars so it's actually not costing them anything to hire you.
This post is another golden gem of pure truth, and a fact that even I sometimes forget to clearly define with businesses.

(Its one thing to say that strategies slash marketing costs and increase sales, but another to explain how your service pays for itself in XX amount time and then continues to MAKE XX profits for every month after)

Similar to buying a website for $5,000 that generates $1,000 a month consistently...would you buy it?

I'd be willing to say the website owner would have trouble stopping you from peeling that site out of his fingers!


Thanks Vaga,

~Dexx
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:06 PM   #895
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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This entire thread reminds me of the book "Money-Making Secrets Of Marketing Genius Jay Abraham and Other Marketing Wizards" by Mr. X. All the concepts still apply but they have all been updated to include the inernet. :-)

Thanks AP and everyone for a highly valuable thread.

Now I need to go pull the book out, make notes, and draw some correlations. Oh yeah... and take some action. ;-)

Jay Simcic

Copywriting Services with a REAL money back guarantee.
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:10 PM   #896
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Originally Posted by Vagabond 007 View Post

I keep telling people how important having the proper mindset is. The ones who get it will be successful. The ones who don't, well, there the ones who will always be looking for the next magic bullet.

Truth is, YOU are the magic bullet. But everyone is always looking outside of themselves for the answer to everything. That's backwards. Everything starts from the inside out.

Most people ignore this because it sounds too weird.
Best post of this entire 900+ thread and over 30,000 views, wow! Dexx created a Monster thread.

Mindset is E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Forget the next WSO, it won't make any difference. Their is more Offline Gold in this thread (FREE) than any thread on the WF or any other forum for that matter.

I could give my entire Playbook and most people will fail. They will get in their own way.

I've worked with several YP reps and others who wanted to do what I do.

All they did was **** me off.

They don't listen, they continue to do what I tell them NOT to do, they go back to their old ways, they want to Shortcut everything I teach them (I need the Money, I can't do it your way) etc...

The PROCESS always works, always, always, always...

It's the individual who has the wrong Mindset and screws it up.

~AP
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 02:59 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

Best post of this entire 900+ thread and over 30,000 views, wow! Dexx created a Monster thread.

Mindset is E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Forget the next WSO, it won't make any difference. Their is more Offline Gold in this thread (FREE) than any thread on the WF or any other forum for that matter.

I could give my entire Playbook and most people will fail. They will get in their own way.

I've worked with several YP reps and others who wanted to do what I do.

All they did was **** me off.

They don't listen, they continue to do what I tell them NOT to do, they go back to their old ways, they want to Shortcut everything I teach them (I need the Money, I can't do it your way) etc...

The PROCESS always works, always, always, always...

It's the individual who has the wrong Mindset and screws it up.

~AP
You and I have talked about this [mindset] topic before. And it's something I could write pages and pages on.

You said..."I could give my entire Playbook and most people will fail. They will get in their own way."

So true! That's why you can pull back the curtain and tell business owners everything you know and they will still hire you. It's because THEY are messed up.

A system (or processes as you referred to it) that has been has been tested and tweaked to work will always work as long as you follow it. Systems are transferable. This is the MAIN reason McDonald's is so successful. They have a system in place that can be replicated in any part of the world. They tested and tweaked it to get it working in one place. Once that happened, they were now able to take that system and drop it into any part of the world and have it work.

Going back to telling people everything and them still screwing it up. It's because people are systems. So if you take your system which is successful and then give it to a person that has been a "failure" (hate to use that term) up until this point in their life, 99 times out of 100 they will continue to fail. It's because they are hardwired differently. Their hardwired system is "failure".

Not sure if any of that made sense, so here is a real life example that just happened last night.

A good friend of mine is out of work. For the past year he has struggled to land a steady job. Some of it is his fault, some not...he was the top guy at his last long term job but the company started suffering and let people go.

Anyway, in the past I've tried to help him with making money. Which of course my advice has nothing to do with the rat race. He listens and sounds interested but never does anything with it.

Last night we are talking via text messages. Keep in mind he is out of work. Running out of money. Phone has been turned off recently but his gf just paid a $400 bill to get it back on. Anyway, he is saying how they just got Netflix on Xbox and he hasn't moved in 2 days. :rolleyes:

Few minutes later I tell him I am going to email him later about a way he can make a few extra bucks. About 3 hours later I get around to emailing him. I text him "Ok I just emailed you. Stop what you're doing and go read it. Btw, you need to view it on your computer, not your phone." Had a video attached to it.

His reply "Make me get off the couch?! *******. "

He was joking but not.

I told him "If you like money you'll get off the couch. Follow my email and in 2 months you can sit on the couch AND be making money".

Haven't heard back from him about the email I sent.

I know better. I know there is a 99.9% chance he isn't going to do what I tell him in the email. Even though it's an easy way to make money with very little work.

But for some strange reason I try to help him.

Perhaps I went off on a tangent here. But the point is, going back to what AP said, I gave him a system that WILL work if he would just get off his a$$ and use it. But his system won't allow him to do it. His self image doesn't line up with that I laid out for him. Which means he won't do it. HE is in his own way of success.

And until he steps up and changes that, nothing will change. Definition of insanity....doing the same things over and over again expecting different results.

I could go and on but that would take pages.

Hopefully my ramblings made sense and you got some value out of it.

The Ultimate Sales & Marketing Mind Map (Just updated - now twice as big!) - scott_krech - "Quite possibly one of the BEST WSO's ever."

www.UltimateMindMap.com


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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:42 PM   #898
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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Originally Posted by Vagabond 007 View Post

You and I have talked about this [mindset] topic before. And it's something I could write pages and pages on.

You said..."I could give my entire Playbook and most people will fail. They will get in their own way."

So true! That's why you can pull back the curtain and tell business owners everything you know and they will still hire you. It's because THEY are messed up.

A system (or processes as you referred to it) that has been has been tested and tweaked to work will always work as long as you follow it. Systems are transferable. This is the MAIN reason McDonald's is so successful. They have a system in place that can be replicated in any part of the world. They tested and tweaked it to get it working in one place. Once that happened, they were now able to take that system and drop it into any part of the world and have it work.

Going back to telling people everything and them still screwing it up. It's because people are systems. So if you take your system which is successful and then give it to a person that has been a "failure" (hate to use that term) up until this point in their life, 99 times out of 100 they will continue to fail. It's because they are hardwired differently. Their hardwired system is "failure".

Not sure if any of that made sense, so here is a real life example that just happened last night.

A good friend of mine is out of work. For the past year he has struggled to land a steady job. Some of it is his fault, some not...he was the top guy at his last long term job but the company started suffering and let people go.

Anyway, in the past I've tried to help him with making money. Which of course my advice has nothing to do with the rat race. He listens and sounds interested but never does anything with it.

Last night we are talking via text messages. Keep in mind he is out of work. Running out of money. Phone has been turned off recently but his gf just paid a $400 bill to get it back on. Anyway, he is saying how they just got Netflix on Xbox and he hasn't moved in 2 days. :rolleyes:

Few minutes later I tell him I am going to email him later about a way he can make a few extra bucks. About 3 hours later I get around to emailing him. I text him "Ok I just emailed you. Stop what you're doing and go read it. Btw, you need to view it on your computer, not your phone." Had a video attached to it.

His reply "Make me get off the couch?! *******. "

He was joking but not.

I told him "If you like money you'll get off the couch. Follow my email and in 2 months you can sit on the couch AND be making money".

Haven't heard back from him about the email I sent.

I know better. I know there is a 99.9% chance he isn't going to do what I tell him in the email. Even though it's an easy way to make money with very little work.

But for some strange reason I try to help him.

Perhaps I went off on a tangent here. But the point is, going back to what AP said, I gave him a system that WILL work if he would just get off his a$$ and use it. But his system won't allow him to do it. His self image doesn't line up with that I laid out for him. Which means he won't do it. HE is in his own way of success.

And until he steps up and changes that, nothing will change. Definition of insanity....doing the same things over and over again expecting different results.

I could go and on but that would take pages.

Hopefully my ramblings made sense and you got some value out of it.
Couldn’t agree more with AP and Vagabond, but not enough posts to thank by button.

That is so frustrating, especially with friends who you try to help out. My friend was in a similar situation, betting everything he had on an info product, which another friend was supposed to market it and bring him to early retirement.

Long story short, the marketing friend shafted him. Now, getting broke quickly, and no sales to show for it, I was asked for help. We had a few sales from some basic changes, but he would never want to follow through on any suggestions.

Why do I have to mail our customers a newsletter? Why do I have to go answer questions in forums? Why do I have to respond to customer questions? Why am I recording podcasts? Aren’t we supposed to make it difficult for them to cancel? And so on, and so on, until I realized I was doing all the work and starting to pay for some costs as well. So finally I said why myself and walked away, and the product went nowhere.

That’s also why so many IM people push the free line so much, they know that probably 90%, if not more, will do nothing more than digest it and put it in some folder on their hard drive, where it will sit and take space. For the 10% that do something with it and find value, they will have customers for life.

In the same respect, this thread will be viewed thousands of times more, but unfortunately only a small portion of us will take this info and use it to help our business get somewhere. The rest, statistically speaking, will just be looking for that next awesome thread to follow, only because one step was too hard to do, or everything would be perfect if I didn’t need to actually talk to the client. Or they will plan on doing something, but fail to put it into action, for fear of it not working.

What is more the more fearful outcome? Taking action and failing 9 times but getting the big client on the 10th time which leads to more and more clients; Or looking back to say you never failed but also never moved forward all because there was never an action taken.

Chris
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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:46 PM   #899
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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The subject of plugging "Profit Leaks" has come up ... does anyone have any resources or a Profit Leak checklist that could be shared? Or maybe we can throw some ideas out and compile one here for all to use.

I've got a single recent Profit Leak experience to get things started...

Client: Local computer store.

Problem: Service requests were taking up a LOT of phone time as the in-store tech was taking the calls then filling out a good ole paper "Service Request" form while customer was on the phone. Once the tech knew the nature of the problem, he'd then proceeding accordingly "Bring in your machine" or "That's not something we can assist you with, try X" etc. Time was being wasted just in "discovery" and nature of each Service Request.

Solution Implemented: Created online form which was bolted onto their website (company.com/servicerequest). The online form was a digital replica of their paper form. When service calls come in they now politely (yet firmly) direct the customer "To, start your service request go to our Service Request form at company.com/service-request ... and we'll be in touch!". The form once submitted, sends a simple email with all the information they need directly to the tech.

Result:

  1. Customer's problem is pre-screened BEFORE the techs even get on the phone with them.
  2. Tech knows the nature of the problem before getting on the phone which saves time in performing "discovery" regarding the nature of the problem. Store owner loves me because
  3. Tech has cut down 50-60% of his daily phone time
  4. Owner saves money by not paying Tech to be on the phone
  5. Owner makes money by billing more hours of service time (since his tech isn't wasting as much time on the phone)

Anyone else have a Profit Leak story or common profit leak checklist they use when diagnosing where the waste is?

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Unread 2nd Feb 2010, 03:53 PM   #900
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Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?
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"Forget the next WSO, it won't make any difference. Their is more Offline Gold in this thread (FREE) than any thread on the WF or any other forum for that matter."

Oh boy... Love you AP but I disagree with you for the first time. I don't do WSO's because I'm way too lazy. However, I've bought many of the offline WSO's and many of them HAVE made a difference, to me at least and I've been doing this stuff since even before I joined the WF in 2003.

Of course they won't make any difference if you don't USE what you get.
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