[troon]

Originally Posted by AP

I was pondering this the other day.

What business can survive with a one time customer? Even prostitutes get repeat biz.

McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca-Cola, Apple, Microsoft, Ford (planned obsolescence) Doctors, Plumbers, Drug dealers, etc... all get repeat biz.

Can anyone list a company that survives on never seeing the same customer twice?

I use to sell customer interior window shutters. Entirely custom and built to last a lifetime. I did this for 10 years during the real estate boom and made a small fortune. Never saw my customers again other than to thank them for referrals, which was the lifeblood of my business. This was a high margin, one time sale business (we only sold shutters, no other window coverings).

[troon]

Originally Posted by AP

I was pondering this the other day.

What business can survive with a one time customer? Even prostitutes get repeat biz.

McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca-Cola, Apple, Microsoft, Ford (planned obsolescence) Doctors, Plumbers, Drug dealers, etc... all get repeat biz.

Can anyone list a company that survives on never seeing the same customer twice?

Originally Posted by Dexx

So far I've been creating packages from scratch based on clients needs / budgets, but I'm finding that time consuming and really something I can't outsource (which = bad for business if its something based on MY work)

So I'm in the process of developing different packages and recommending a package that suits the business' needs.

I'll have a $1,000, $2,500, $5000, and $10,000/mo packages to choose from.

The "high rollers" will most likely shoot for the $5,000+ packages to feel elite and bragging rights (you know, the same types that would buy a $300,000 car when a $50,000 car would work just fine)

But I'll recommend the $2,500 for the majority of businesses.

The $1,000/mo package will be setup in a way to allow for eventual "upgrading" to the $2,500 package.

Of course setup fees will also vary based on this...but by doing this I can have a fully systematic business that I can have B2B reps promoting and collecting checks...then I just have Virtual Assistants setup to implement each of the packages for each business.

Hands off to the Max....ya baby!

~Dexx

Don't you think you might run the risk of turning your consulting biz into a commodity by offering "packaged services"? If I'm paying good money I want a custom solution built just for me. Now we all know that many times these "custom" packages are not really custom, but the client needs to think they are. Asking them to circle the package they want seems to cheapen your services IMHO!

[Dexx]

Perhaps, like I said I'm just pondering the idea right now to systematize my business so it doesn't revolve around ME coming up with the solution for services.

But, also keep in mind its not like I'm talking about templates for websites here, this will be (in my mind at least) something along the lines of:

Package 1: Autoresponder + SEO for Target Keyword

Package 2: Package 1 + FaceBook / Twitter (Social Media) + Monthly Press Release

Package 3: Package 2 + Video Marketing

etc.

Now the CUSTOMIZATION will be in the form of HOW those services are done...a "Package 3" designed to promote a plumbing business will be a lot different than a "Package 3" designed for a Realtor...

However my outsourcers will know the SYSTEM for how to handle SEO promotion, distribution of the Videos provided etc.

So it will be a customized marketing SYSTEM they choose...as opposed to...

"Hrmmm, well maybe some SEO, with a little Video Marketing...and a couple articles a month"

then the next client gets something completely different, and now I have multiple "packages" already to do deal with...they just arent standardized...

Does that make sense?


For the record I have NOT created any such packages yet, so for those who have messaged me...or plan to...I don't have that information...yet...but I will share it once I find some good package systems that work...

The joys of this business is we can test new ideas, and fail fast...best way to learn =)


~Dexx

PS - I wouldn't so much be "asking" them to pick a package, I would already know by that point what their budget is...and the results they are looking for...and then I'd give them two "packages" to choose from which I would know they could afford and wouldn't have a real objection for

Not just offering them a menu and saying "Have at 'er!"

[Dexx]

Originally Posted by 12as24

I have a couple of questions regarding the services some people are providing to the businesses:

-Why don't you offer performance-based commission instead of a steady monthly rate? With generating $1 million in value, you can easily live off of ONE CLIENT at a 15% commission rate. I'm surprised people haven't suggested this yet, it would provide more focus and direction on your part towards four or five clients as well.

It has been suggested, but I personally don't feel like dealing with that kind of hassle. Keep in mind there's always a chance they don't give you the proper numbers and you get ripped off etc.

I prefer to just set flat fees that I'm happy with, and you know what, if I generate a million in revenue for them and they are paying me $1,500 - $2,000 per month...come contract renewal time...rates will go up...but also I'm sure they will be talking about me like crazy to their business friends on the results I delivered.

Referrals = constant pay increases

Make sense?

Originally Posted by 12as24

-Would registering businesses as advertisers on CPA networks be helpful to them? You can easily generate huge revenue through affiliates with promotion content such as banner ads. Of course, this wouldn't work for a mom and pop restaurant as CPA reaches a national audience. Where would this be helpful?

Originally Posted by 12as24

Possibly, but then you would also need to become their affiliate manager, or find one, to deal with affiliates and false leads...network contracts blah blah blah

Might be worth the hassle, but I don't feel like going that road myself

~Dexx

[Micheallatour]

hmm, the only service I am providing right now is corporate logo designs.
I really cant come up with something that I can charge on a monthly basis.
maybe I can start a referral program to get some what of a viral effect.
other than that, I really cant see charging my clients monthly for logo designs.

[AP]

Originally Posted by SpyGuy

What calculation do you use when making your fee/quote?

Or Do you just have a "set fee" based on a few packages?

... Is there a formula?

Wow, is my mailbox full. Please send any questions to my email apcopywriter@gmail.com

Sorry for not responding sooner, I have been swamped with work.

Please implement Action immediately. I am getting more phone calls from desperate and frustrated business owners than I have ever gotten, period. A ton of Mom & Pop shops. Small landscaping firms, remodeling co’s, plumbers, etc…

The economy is not getting better for several years and business owners are starting to realize they have to do something different to stimulate sales.

Business owners are begging for help. No one knows how to start "this Internet stuff" they are Clueless in Seattle.

Use your current skills and do what you can for them. Trust me, 99% will be grateful.

Many people can't seem to find the "Resource Guide" I posted. It's at post #521 for anyone that has NOT gotten a copy. I’m taking it down as of next week, so please download if you haven't already.

There seems to be a lot of questions in my mailbox about Fee setting.

Let me briefly show you how I determine my fees.

I don't have a Magic Formula. What I like to see at Minimum is my client getting a 4 to 1 ROI. Many times they get 5, 10, 20x more, but sometimes it's only 2x. Every business is different and not every business owner follows my rules. In most cases they are their Worst enemy. I can't tell you how many times a business owner has paid me 10k to 20k upfront and then they don't heed my advice. Whatever!

I have a business owner I did a JV with and they are paying us over 50k this year and they fight us constantly. They won't make the necessary changes we agreed upon. I know I got 20k upfront and a big check keeps coming every month so it's their loss.

My "Questionnaire" does all the fact-finding to determine my fees.

In effect, the business owner is setting my fees when he answers MY questionnaire. I have a clean slate with no pre-determined fees of what I can charge. I know the Minimum I'd like to get, but not the Maximum.

By asking detailed, comprehensive questions about their business I can get a feel for what my services are worth.

If I think my services can increase their profits $200,000 I’m NOT gonna charge $997 set-up fee and $497 month. I may come in at 10k-15k set-up and 2k month. Total for 12 months would be about about $35k. The client would see a ROI of 6-1 for every dollar invested with me.

Worst case scenario he only makes back my fees of 35k and that would still be a good deal for them, let me tell you why. The business owner would have been taught sound fundamental lessons about increasing traffic, converting more prospects to buyers, and general business methods that will follow him for years in any business he incorporates. I'll elaborate later when I post up that "homework" case of the real client I landed in Oct 2009.

If anyone here would like my Questionnaire hit the Thanks button. I am NOT going to post it for Public viewing.

I will send a Link next week thru your PM when I have adapted my Questionnaire for general use. I will make it available as a Word doc so you may make changes.

Until next week, adios.

Have a great weekend.

~AP

[Michi Kono]

I've been an IMer for about 3 years now and I started seo biz to offline businesses about 6 months ago. ..and I'm pretty happy with my results so far. I have some optional monthly offers but basically i offer:

Article marketing (2 articles/month)
Video marketing (one kwd-optimized unique video/month and upload it to several sites)
Link building (Social networking sites, forums, blogs, social bookmarking sites)

and i currently charge $500 to $900 per month.

I'm planning to put the fee up soon as all of my clients are happy with the results they are getting.

[mktmkr]

Thanks to EVERYONE for their amazing contributions to this thread. I landed my first deal thanks to your info!

It was one we'd been working for a few weeks. At first we thought it was dead because we hadn't heard back, but then I stopped by and went over our proposal again with her.

Turns out she was pretty confused by what we'd given, since it listed different packages with descriptions.

I said that I'd redo the proposal and stuck with high-level language. She didn't want to get locked into an annual deal as of yet, so she decided on a 2 month setup for $4000, after which we're looking at $1000/mo.

Definitely some other things I would have changed about the situation (better qualification, positioning). Still, VERY stoked to get a deal in and can't wait for more!

[Hail-To-The-Redskins]

AP,

Darn, I wish I lived in Seattle, or at the very least the US!

Well I have taken your advice and have purchased the "Amazon System" in order to get some books into print. I am also in the process of purchasing a camcorder so that I can put a video up on my site and subsequent videos to create a more effective sales funnel.

I am also having my programmer redesign my blog as well as design a landing page for my new higher transaction-based businesses (using Vagabond 007's system actually ) and then will start to target businesses in a decent mile radius, probably 100 miles to begin with (meaning that from where I am in the UK I could go to London if the deal is appropriate).

So why I am posting this? Not for any other reason other than to try and illustrate that taking action is the key.

I have been in IM for 6 years now and for 4 of those years I would procrastinate like you would not believe. I would over analyse things, consider what would happen if it didn't work and then look at something else because I'd convinced myself that Plan A would not work.

Well, I would then arrive (after a series of deliberation and further procrastination) at Plan Z and guess what, still no action taken!

So for anyone who has been reading this thread thinking "Wow, this is great" I suggest you stop the admiration for just a second and IMPLEMENT by TAKING ACTION.

Don't get me wrong, the contributions from AP, DExx, Vagabond 007, DogScout and others has been gold dust, but it is nothing without ACTION.

How cool would it be to start hearing some success stories soon?

Simon

[Fernando Veloso]

In effect, the business owner is setting my fees when he answers MY questionnaire. I have a clean slate with no pre-determined fees of what I can charge. I know the Minimum I'd like to get, but not the Maximum.

So damn true AP. Tried it first time a couple days ago and I can say it's insane how I changed my approach just with that small piece of paper.

That's why I don't have problems with higher fees. One new customer I bring equals 4K from 1 sale, but if he buys twice (it's usual), that's a new 8K customer they don't have right now.

I am targeting a 2-3K set up fee and a $500 per month (12 months contract).

I just want to tell you guys: this can be done - You just need to change your approach, the way you think, the way you react, change your focus and attitude.

A couple months i'd say this is all "good ideas" BUT NOW I understand the money we've been losing since 2004 selling "webdesign services" and "graphic design services".

Follow AP, Dexx, Dough and Vagabond's advice and test them.

Next meeting you have test their advices, you're up for a surprise

[jacquic]

If anyone here would like my Questionnaire hit the Thanks button. I am NOT going to post it for Public viewing.


Really sorry, but where is the Thanks button? New to forums.

I have a questionnaire also, about to be updated in the light of all the excellent comments in this thread. If there's anything on it that isn't in this, I'll suggest them here if people would like.

Jacqui

[phil.wheatley]

Hi Jacqui

Take a look over the right hand side of your post, you can see black buttons like Quote, Multiquote, the last one is thanks, but what you need to do is scroll up to AP's post, and click on the thanks button within in his post. To check, you will then see your name in the thanks list underneath the post...you'll see my name in there too ;-)

Phil

[ijohnson]

Originally Posted by jacquic

If anyone here would like my Questionnaire hit the Thanks button. I am NOT going to post it for Public viewing.


Really sorry, but where is the Thanks button? New to forums.

I have a questionnaire also, about to be updated in the light of all the excellent comments in this thread. If there's anything on it that isn't in this, I'll suggest them here if people would like.

Jacqui

Jacqui,

Welcome to the Warrior Forum! You can find the "THANKS" button at the bottom of the text area of each post. It will be the last BLACK button to the right of a series of oblong-shaped buttons: "QUOTE" "MULTIQUOTE" "QUICK REPLY" "THANKS". You will find these buttons in every post. You can use them when you want to reply to a particular post.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any questions you may have -- we're all here to help each other.

Iris

[DogScout]

Originally Posted by AP

Worst case scenario he only makes back my fees of 35k and that would still be a good deal for them, let me tell you why. The business owner would have been taught sound fundamental lessons about increasing traffic, converting more prospects to buyers, and general business methods that will follow him for years in any business he incorporates. I'll elaborate later when I post up that "homework" case of the real client I landed in Oct 2009.
~AP

As you know I prefer smaller clients and due to a divorce need to play pauper for 6 months, am down to 2 active paying clients. In both cases, even if it is a breakeven for the biz, it means they get to keep an extra employee or two busy and on the payroll. For both my clients, that is their #1 concern, (They are both good people!).

If I can help them retain good, already trained employees, then A-they sleep better at night not worried about how to lay off a person with a family to feed, and B-when biz picks up, they are positioned to roll while others have to hire and train new employees to replace laid off ones!

AP talks about writing a book, I am actually having a book ghost written for one of my clients to increase HIS credibility and personal brand! I also trademarked his protocol and other 'off-line' things that have helped him increase biz. Recently put together an entire expo presentation off-line which netted 80 new immediate patients (at a net of 2-3k each to the biz) Took me 10-15 hrs, netted him 200k or more. (though he wrote and made the presentation it self). I did fliers and brainstormed CD handouts, wrote employee-client interaction scripts, etc. (Taught his employees how to ask 'haunting' questions that will have fence sitting clients making appointments for months.) Lots of different things can help. thinking outside 'on-line' can be huge as well as the on-line positioning!

[EMaria]

Originally Posted by phil.wheatley

Hi Jacqui

Take a look over the right hand side of your post, you can see black buttons like Quote, Multiquote, the last one is thanks, but what you need to do is scroll up to AP's post, and click on the thanks button within in his post. To check, you will then see your name in the thanks list underneath the post...you'll see my name in there too ;-)

Phil

Does a person need to be a paying war room member to see the Thanks button? I see the Quote, Multiquote, etc., as you explain, but no Thanks button.

[Kevin Perry]

Originally Posted by EMaria

Does a person need to be a paying war room member to see the Thanks button? I see the Quote, Multiquote, etc., as you explain, but no Thanks button.

Maybe you have to receive thanks before you can hand it out. It makes sense in my opinion. I'm sure there are quite a few lurkers that just joined up to get their hands on AP's material.

Kevin

[Sebulba]

Originally Posted by EMaria

Does a person need to be a paying war room member to see the Thanks button? I see the Quote, Multiquote, etc., as you explain, but no Thanks button.

Might be that you need more than 5 post to see it, just a guess.

Seb

[jacquic]

Thanks, folks

I'm glad I'm not that blind or daft! There is no button at all that says 'thanks', so maybe it will appear as I add posts or add something so helpful to you all, that many say thank you :-)

There will be plenty, just bear with me while I get my head around all this lovely content: explaining what you've all said to my husband (and biz partner) is helping me concentrate marvellously.

We know we need a new website, and so have just had a very good couple of hours working out the structure/revamp based on what we've learned.

Jacqui

[AffiliateJ]

My attempt at the homework:

Imagine the client is a dentist.

Proposal:

- Increase his website rankings for local searches from page 3 to page 1

- Advertise on ppc to complement his seo

- Change his yellow page ad to an ad noting a 'free recorded message' if they phone up, which educates people and then drives people to his website for some education based marketing.

- Think about offering a current high margin product for cost price (90% discount on teeth whitening) to get in more customers.

- Target women aged 35 - 45 as these women are usually the ones who set up dentist appointments for their entire families.

Implement some further services:

Upsell teeth whitening, teeth polishing services, even a monthly payment plan where the person can come in and get their teeth polished for free, twice a month for example etc. Get people to tell others about their experiences (referrals)

- Cross sell other products, tooth paste, home teeth polishing kits, gum revitalisers etc

Use the current database:

- Direct mailings to current customers with a special offer for a discounted service. Incentivise people to refer their friends for a 50% discount on treatments etc. Grow the customer base basically.

- Get their email addresses (from asking them to respond in the direct mailings) and send out a regular newsletter with discounts in it or simply just to stay in touch with them so they are encouraged to visit more often, as you will market to them (talk about people losing their teeth by 45 when others have them until 65 - regular checkups can be the difference etc etc).

Cut fat:

- Remove all traces of spray marketing - only spend money where you can measure some sort of return


Even if you break even with this (you will most likely profit hugely), you have grown your customer base and discovered new methods to monetise them.

Ok that's my ideas done. Looking forward to seeing how you did it AP.

Originally Posted by AP

Show me how you could justify ME giving YOU a $4,997 set-up fee plus $1,497 per month (starting in 30 days) 12 month agreement. Total price is $23,000.

I want YOU to show me what you could do to "Cut the Fat & Waste in my Advertising budget and Increase my sales.

In addition, I want to see ALL the Benefits to your plan even if I just Break even with your fees vs my increased profits and the end of 12 months.

End
************************************************** ***

I would like to see all thoughts. There shouldn't be any criticism from anyone, we are all here to learn.

I am willing to bet that I have (2) answers that no one will come up with. I've picked my brains for years justifying my prices to clients.

Let the games begin.

~AP

P.S. If you need more info let me know, but I'm going to be very conservative in my replies.

Edit (Jan 22, 4:30 EST): I implemented the Exact case for a client back in Oct 2009. The fee structure was a little different. $20,000 paid over a 6 month period. A Minimum of $997 to $1,497 dependent upon the services the client wanted at that time for continuing consulting. I can tell everyone the client is Extremely happy with the results in only 3 months. He has given me (3) referrals since we met. I will give details when all is finished.

BTW, the client is one of the above categories.

[LouCyphre]

It's my first post as WF member (only recently have I been going through and seeing the value of so many knowledgeable members) so I’m sorry if it ends up being a little long, or if some stuff has been said already, but a lot to say.

First of all I'd like to say a big thank you to AP, Dexx, DogScout and so many others who have put more information here into this thread than you see in many of the products released recently.

Not being that experienced yet in the IM world, the one place I think I can add some value to this thread is in the fee-value questions many people seem to have. I will share 2 of my own experiences in this from my current offline business, computer consulting.

The first was, with a team I joined up with to pitch a complete program redesign for a local Labor Union to help track their dues, which they thought they were losing a lot of money by the old fashioned manual way they were tracking. We were a long shot going up against some big time software companies. But one of our uniqueness was it being completely web based (8 years ago that was still a novel idea) and completely dynamic for change, allowing the clients to modify contracts, dues, fees, etc on demand.

We made it to the final round, where prior to our presentation we were basically counted out, and there was an agreement amongst the union leaders to go with our competitor. So there I was, about to talk to 9 computer illiterate union leaders in a dark lit room, and 1 director who knew enough about computers, just to make him dangerous.

End result, after 3 hours of presenting our product, answering every question thrown my way, we walked out the door with a signed agreement. This was a 2 year 1.5 million dollar bid with a 35% of contract perpetual support agreement, which 95% of all of it would have been split between 5 of us. I say would have, as one of the partner’s sons was a new lawyer and he screwed up everything when it came to IP rights of our code. What are you gonna do, easy come easy go.

Why did they choose us? They specifically told us that during my presentation they were impressed with two items. First, that I spoke with total confidence and conviction about every aspect of our program, that I made them feel as if there was no other option but to use us. Secondly, that they saw tremendous value in having to only administer the program in one location (the web server), make changes at will, and that I specifically showed how easy it was for them to see where dues are being shortchanged and all balances within a matter of a couple of clicks. They felt their immediate value gained was much more then what they would have paid us for the project.

Shortly after that, I had to either find a client or go back to work. So I went to a small family run manufacturing client that I was there as a sub contractor for briefly. They were a spaghetti mix of band aid solutions of a computer system, and were looking at getting their computer network to become an asset not a liability.

My partner felt I was pricing myself to high in the initial proposal, and unfortunately I compromised. I had three option packages, between 10-18K of what work would consist of, and each I reduced by 25% which he still felt was too high for them. They were a million+ dollar a year company, but he felt they wouldn’t pay so much for 1 full weekend’s worth of work.

At the proposal meeting, I went over everything we would do for them, how it would improve things, the savings they would have immediately and each year going forward from things that would be brought in-house. How in the future we would be able to join their international offices into one network, etc.

The president of the company looked over the proposal pricings at the end of the discussion, and went right to the highest priced package and signed right away without even questioning the price. Let’s just say a quick “I told you so” glance was shot toward my partner after that.

8 years later they are still my client, and have brought in 60-100K+ a year for me, allowing me to never go back to work again. Once again, it was being confident in what I can provide for them, in showing them what they really want, and how we can get there.

They saw value in the savings alone, then on top of that being able to grow and accept a lot more business, and to streamline many of their inefficient manual processes. Recently they grew so nicely they were able to sell off a portion of their company for the high 8 figure mark to some huge international conglomerate.

They would have gotten there at some point sure, but I know what we did for them helped them get there quicker, and to be more valuable. Additionally, I had 2 more clients recently that I was highly recommended as being the guy to go to by that very same President of the company.

So in the end, guys, it really is those two things when talking to potential clients: conviction and value.

Always be respectful and listen first to the client, really listen, and then answer with conviction. Be confident in what you can provide, and they will pick up on that. No one wants to be experimented on; no one wants to have their time wasted on a maybe. You don’t brag, you don’t flat out say there is no other option but me. But rather, use your knowledge and conviction to make them feel that way.

When it comes to value, don’t be afraid of how expensive you might seem you are. As long as you have them see the value you provide for that, that what they get back from it is so much more than what they have now, there is no problem for them.

If you price yourself too low, they might wonder what is wrong with you that you are so cheap. I choose the other route and make myself more toward the high end for hourly work, and that also helps me when I talk with clients. They value your time more because it is expensive, and it’s a sort of authority builder in that you have to be worth it if you’re charging so much.

But make sure you deliver. If you can’t deliver that is the one main thing that will kill your relationship with the client.

Well that’s it I guess. Hopefully I offered some value to at least one person in this thread. If so, then I’ll be happy to have this as a first post.

Chris

[ijohnson]

LOGO!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, Warriors:

I need someone to design a logo for me. Please give me the name of someone you have personally dealt with who is creative, fast and inexpensive! Thanks!!!!!

~Iris~

[jacquic]

Chris

That was excellent. It's helping me with my conviction that I need to aim a lot higher - I know I can do it, so really need to value what I can do. Thank you.

Plenty of you on this thread are over that pricing hurdle but, for the rest of you, what exact stumbling blocks are there when you assign prices for what you do?

Jacqui

[Dexx]

I use logonerds.com for creating logos for clients.

I select the $47 package and charge $127 - $197 to the client... basically just passing the template questions from logonerds for design for the client to fill out...

$80+ to copy and paste...plus referrals from happy clients...works for me! heh

~Dexx

Originally Posted by ijohnson

LOGO!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, Warriors:

I need someone to design a logo for me. Please give me the name of someone you have personally dealt with who is creative, fast and inexpensive! Thanks!!!!!

~Iris~

[jrod014]

Originally Posted by Dexx

I use logonerds.com for creating logos for clients.

I select the $47 package and charge $127 - $197 to the client... basically just passing the template questions from logonerds for design for the client to fill out...

$80+ to copy and paste...plus referrals from happy clients...works for me! heh

~Dexx

I second that! I've used logo nerds in the past and they are pretty awesome.

[Leads4Builders]

Originally Posted by ijohnson

LOGO!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!! LOGO!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, Warriors:

I need someone to design a logo for me. Please give me the name of someone you have personally dealt with who is creative, fast and inexpensive! Thanks!!!!!

~Iris~

pm me...I have someone you can use

[Spark]

Guys,

Thanks for the thread. Really urge me to quickly get setting right for my packages and start selling!

Anyway it's seem that pricing ourself up is the right way to go. Why? as others has mentions, people will tend to look at service that's higher because they always believe it's bring them more values!

This happens to me as well. As i tend to believe that people charging high will offer a better values instead of low pricing. As long as the pricing has the right values that you gave. They will be keen!

[ClearWater404]

Originally Posted by troon

Don't you think you might run the risk of turning your consulting biz into a commodity by offering "packaged services"? If I'm paying good money I want a custom solution built just for me. Now we all know that many times these "custom" packages are not really custom, but the client needs to think they are. Asking them to circle the package they want seems to cheapen your services IMHO!

Dexx, even if you use a "package" system for pricing and to come up with solution sets for your prospects, you don't have to make that transparent to them. In other words, you can use that system as a basis for your custom proposal, then fine-tune it if need be, and present it to the client as a custom solution, which it is.

The important thing is that you use the best marketing method(s) for your client's needs. How you come up with your customized proposal does not have to be transparent to the client.

[Dexx]

Originally Posted by ClearWater404

In other words, you can use that system as a basis for your custom proposal, then fine-tune it if need be, and present it to the client as a custom solution, which it is.

Yup that's the gameplan, basically packaged solutions of what services will be done as opposed to developing different ones for each client...

5 keywords here, 2 keywords here, 3 videos a month here, 1 video a month here...instead more streamlined so I can start training sales reps to close clients instead of me doing it...once again freeing up more time!

S'all about the leveraaaaagggeee!

~Dexx

[242Studios.com]

Hi Everybody,

I've been running a web design firm since 2006 and I've recently decided to change gears and focus more on recurring payments as opposed to one off up front payments for websites. This thread and the entire offline-gold concept has been immensely helpful in restructuring my business model.

I haven't as of yet implemented my new payment structure because I wanted to get some input from the brilliant minds on this thread. Here are the packages and pricing I have come up with:

Website Design:
·Package 1 ($297 per month):
oWebsite w/ up to 5 Pages
oAutomated Lead Capture System
o1 Newsletter a Month
oDomain Name
oWebsite hosting
o5 Email Addresses
oOnline Marketing Blueprint


·Package 2 ($497 per month):
oWepsite w/ up to 10 Pages
oAutomated Lead Capture System
oUp to 4 Newsletters a Month
oContent Management System (Wordpress)
oPhoto Gallery Setup
oBlog Setup
oDomain Name
oWebsite Hosting
o10 Email Addresses
oOnline Marketing Blueprint

Website Redesign:
·Package 1 ($197 Per Month):
oNeeds & Analysis
oAddition of Automated Lead Capture System
o1 Newsletter per month
oOnline Marketing Blueprint

·Package 2 ($397 Per Month):
oNeeds & Analysis
oAddition of Automated Lead Capture System
oUp to 4 Newsletters per month
oOn site SEO
oOnline Marketing Blueprint

Website SEO & Marketing Packages:
·Package 1 ($497 Per Month):
oOnline Marketing Blueprint
oKeyword Research
oOn-site SEO
oCreation & Submission of 1 Video
oCreation & Submission of 1 Article
oCreation & Submission of 1 Press Release
oCreation & Submission of 1 Podcast
oCreation & Submission of 1 PDF to Article Directories

·Package 2 ($797 Per Month):

oOnline Marketing Blueprint
oKeyword Research
oOn-site SEO
oCreation & Submission of 4 Videos
oCreation & Submission of 4 Articles
oCreation & Submission of 4 Press Releases
oCreation & Submission of 4 Podcasts
oCreation & Submission of 4 PDF to Article Directories

I would love to get any input you all may have on the above. Of course the packages can be combined and modified to create a custom solution for each client. Let me know what you think!
-=Chris

[242Studios.com]

Hi mmmcoffee,

There are generally two ways I'll use to stop this from happening.

The first is to ensure that they sign a one year minimum contract.

The second is that I control the entire website and domain name. If they stop paying for some reason, their entire website is pulled down and removed after being 30 days delinquent in the payments. No money, no website!

-=Chris

[Vagabond 007]

Originally Posted by 242Studios.com

Hi mmmcoffee,

There are generally two ways I'll use to stop this from happening.

The first is to ensure that they sign a one year minimum contract.

The second is that I control the entire website and domain name. If they stop paying for some reason, their entire website is pulled down and removed after being 30 days delinquent in the payments. No money, no website!

-=Chris

If I were you I wouldn't be selling websites. I would be selling the autoresponder. And of course, don't call it an autoresponder.

The typical business owner won't see the value in paying you a few hundred bucks a month for that. They will see it as "I'm paying $297 a month for a website. That's too much, I can get it for much less". Everything you have listed in your packages is just gibberish to them.

But if you are selling the autoresponder, that just so happens to have a website attached to it, NOW there is value. It's no longer a website. It's an "automatic marketing system that communicates with customers at the click of a button!"

Now THAT I would pay $297 a month for.

Never sell what YOU want. Always sell what the CUSTOMER wants. Sell them what they want and then give them what they need.

Make sense? You are essentially still using the same things. You're just presenting it differently to the business owner. You went from selling features to selling benefits.

People don't want to pay $250,000 for a car. They pay $250,000 for a Lamborghini that DEMANDS attention every single time they get behind the wheel. They pay for the exclusivity. Bragging rights. Status. Etc.

At the end of the day it's still just a car. But you can't sell "just a car" for $250,000.

[txsigma41]

have you had a good experience with these telemarketers? where did you find them and what kind of $$ are they charging you?

Originally Posted by mmmcoffee

Great thread, a big thanks for all the tips and ideas.

I'm in the process of moving from a method of go out and find the prospects to one where they come to me.

With previous clients, I've found that those that come to me are the ones who are the higher value and more profitable ones. Most of these high value and profitable clients I can track back to specific referrals from other clients or people that know me and my company.

My quick and dirty method of go out and get clients works, and I have seen that having them come to me is more poiwerful and more profitable. I'm using the quick and dirty method to ramp things up and at the same time putting in place things that will result in more of our clients finding us rather than us finding them.

My quick and dirty method includes sourcing prospective purchasers from quarter page plus advertisers in the local yellow pages, companies using adwords and not on page 1 in Google, or using other high cost media such as billboards, big newspaper ads, and radio, etc.

I have a telemarketer make calls to find out who the decsion maker is and we send thema quick and easy to genertate yet high preceived value report, that shows how they don't stack up too well against their local competitors. The goal for the telemarketer in this first call is to get permission to send this report to the decision maker and have them say it is okay to call them back in a day or 2 to go over any questions they have in the report.

A couple of days later the telemarketer call the prospect and asks if they got the emailed report and if they had any questions. The goal for this second call is form them to get an appointment for me to meet with the prospect.

I do a pre-meeting call to further quality the prospect. This is where I run through my questionnaire that helps me see where I can help them, where they have problems, and what $ they have to get me on board. About a third of these are disqualified in this call.

For any qualified prospects they can get me in front of, over 70% sign up when I meet with them.

For billing we have payment in advance.

Let me know what you're doing, similar, different?

[txsigma41]

I also just wanted to state that I as well have learned a TON from this thread and cant wait to get started. my first action steps to be taken are :
1. get domain/website setup
2. optimize that and let it sit
3. talk with a couple of small business owners that I know - and do some consulting work for them for free in exchange for a testimonial and some referrals

I'm currently working 45 hours a week now at my salary job, I'm hoping to score a few clients in the next 6 months...so that if this does work out then I will have a few clients to keep me afloat.

[scottgallagher]

Originally Posted by txsigma41

I also just wanted to state that I as well have learned a TON from this thread and cant wait to get started. my first action steps to be taken are :
1. get domain/website setup
2. optimize that and let it sit
3. talk with a couple of small business owners that I know - and do some consulting work for them for free in exchange for a testimonial and some referrals

I'm currently working 45 hours a week now at my salary job, I'm hoping to score a few clients in the next 6 months...so that if this does work out then I will have a few clients to keep me afloat.

Awesome that you have a plan!!!

However, I would suggest to not do anything for free. The biggest reason is your new client's commitment to the project. Ask them to cover your direct costs only. This might be your article writers, content distributors, developers, whatever. Your goal is to get that testimonial as fast as possible, so you can get out and make money. If you take this client on and do the work yourself....good luck. Get yourself a contract that merely pays for itself, outsource the work while you work on other new clients.

We have several students who are doing exactly as you describe and in fact, on our faculty call this afternoon, one student publically came out and said he was at work, on our task and that he is about ready to fire his boss!! How cool is that!!!!!!!!

I also want to point out that you don't need a website, company name, or any of that jazz to get started. It surely helps build credibility though. If I were you, I'd be spending my time networking at local networking events.

[dw in Ca]

Thanks AP.

Don

[dw in Ca]

I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me where the "Thanks" button is. AP said in post #615 that he'd share a copy of his questionaire if one were to hit the "Thanks" button. I'm new to the forum and can't locate the "Thanks" button anywhere on the page. I see many people have thanked him, so they know where the button is.
Help!

Don

[txsigma41]

@Scottgallagher
Thanks for the advice! I am still new to this whole thing so I was looking forward to doing everything myself in efforts to learn more about everything. I didnt plan on outsourcing anything, I would prefer to learn myself and outsource only when I can start to scale up.

When I worked in the freelance web design field, when work was slow I always found working on pro bono projects sharpened my skills and worked great for referalls.

I honestly wouldnt feel comfortable charging one of my associates (the lawyer I would be working for) because I'm not confident enough in what I would be doing for him. Im sort of using him as my guinea pig

Due to my expertise; I should be able to get the website setup in just a few short hours and let it do its SEO thing. Then by the time I can start getting clients in 6 months or so, I should have some decent SE positioning.

[dw in Ca]

"Jacqui,

Welcome to the Warrior Forum! You can find the "THANKS" button at the bottom of the text area of each post. It will be the last BLACK button to the right of a series of oblong-shaped buttons: "QUOTE" "MULTIQUOTE" "QUICK REPLY" "THANKS". You will find these buttons in every post. You can use them when you want to reply to a particular post.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any questions you may have -- we're all here to help each other.

Iris"

Does anyone have any idea why on my screen I have only the three buttons "quote", "multiquote" and "quick reply"? I don't have a thanks button. Do I have to do some sort of log-in every time I come to the Forum? I'm a war-room member and the system seems to show me logged on.

Don

edit: Never mind. I saw AP's post to Jacqui and e-mailed him.

[Sebulba]

Originally Posted by dw in Ca

"Jacqui,

Welcome to the Warrior Forum! You can find the "THANKS" button at the bottom of the text area of each post. It will be the last BLACK button to the right of a series of oblong-shaped buttons: "QUOTE" "MULTIQUOTE" "QUICK REPLY" "THANKS". You will find these buttons in every post. You can use them when you want to reply to a particular post.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any questions you may have -- we're all here to help each other.

Iris"

Does anyone have any idea why on my screen I have only the three buttons "quote", "multiquote" and "quick reply"? I don't have a thanks button. Do I have to do some sort of log-in every time I come to the Forum? I'm a war-room member and the system seems to show me logged on.

Don

I think you may need to do 30 or 50 posts before you have the thank you button?

Seb

[dave stahly]

logonerd
you will find him here at the warrior forum.

dave

[Kevin Perry]

Man, the quality of posts has certainly gone down the last little while. Let's get this thread back on track. The Forum help desk will answer most of your questions regarding WarriorForum functionality.

Let's get this thread back on track. To all the successful offline marketers out there: Do you have your own business website? How do you approach your sales copy? I think we have to keep in mind that we're marketing our marketing services to people who have no idea what SEO, SERPs, or PPC is.

I'm still working on my site. I have the first draft of my sales copy up. Tell me what you think. KTP Marketing

Thanks,

Kevin

[SpyGuy]

Originally Posted by AP

By asking detailed, comprehensive questions about their business I can get a feel for what my services are worth.

If I think my services can increase their profits $200,000 I’m NOT gonna charge $997 set-up fee and $497 month. I may come in at 10k-15k set-up and 2k month. Total for 12 months would be about about $35k. The client would see a ROI of 6-1 for every dollar invested with me.

~AP

Man... If I could have just 2-3 of those $35k clients I would be a happy camper.


AP - Just wanted to put forth a formal THANK YOU to you. Your report has opened so many doors for me. I stayed up all night watching Dan Kennedy, Gary Halbert Videos. Im now reading the Boron Letters on Gary's site. Words cant describe the doorway of knowledge you have passed on.

Another THANK YOU for the comming Questionairre as well.

Ive seen a few offline questionairres but I felt they lacked a main ingredient.... The EXPLANATION.

It was a - Here are the Questions and nothing else.

It would be nice to get some type of "explanation" as to "WHY" you are asking the questions and "WHAT" you can do with that info.

I cant wait to see your questionairre and if you can add some type of "notes / explanation" that would be F'ING AMAZING.

[fab]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

To all the successful offline marketers out there: Do you have your own business website? How do you approach your sales copy? I think we have to keep in mind that we're marketing our marketing services to people who have no idea what SEO, SERPs, or PPC is.

I'm still working on my site. I have the first draft of my sales copy up. Tell me what you think. KTP Marketing

Thanks,

Kevin

I'm working on my site design and sales copy this week, hope to have it up next week. I'll post it up when it's ready.

On yours, I think the word "Marketing" is really hard to read in your header. Also, I think at the top of your text area maybe you should have a headline.

Also, don't forget, you need a email capture form to start building your list and maybe something free to give away in return.

[bwh1]

Originally Posted by AP

Can anyone list a company that survives on never seeing the same customer twice?

Cemeteries

G.

By the way AP, you are a CONSULTANT and not a Internet Marketer as most in here. What you offer goes way beyond a IM education and needs a deeper knowledge, most probably a MBA or a Marketing education on such level (I don't know what this would be in the US, where I come from this is called a "Marketing Leader" degree).

And thanks for your insights, really great contribution with lot's of good information.

[EricWPM]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

To all the successful offline marketers out there: Do you have your own business website? How do you approach your sales copy? I think we have to keep in mind that we're marketing our marketing services to people who have no idea what SEO, SERPs, or PPC is.

I'm still working on my site. I have the first draft of my sales copy up. Tell me what you think. KTP Marketing

Thanks,

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I'm going to be blunt... It's boring and completely written from an IM perspective. You need to think like a customer when writing salescopy! What questions/problems do customers have and what type of information are they looking for? What "interesting hook" will make them read your sales page??

I had to force myself to read the copy. The wording you chose for your copy is talking to the IM crowd... not the business owner. The layout of the copy is too crowded. There is no call to action and no headline to entice me to read any of your salepage. The red text graphics looks like it was written in crayon and doesn't match the rest of the page. You can go for a creative look or go professional but don't try to mix them.

You are most likely here because you are dissatisfied with your current internet marketing efforts, or you are curious as to what professional internet marketing services can do for your business.


In order to maximize the potential of an internet marketing campaign, the following three principles MUST be applied correctly:

The above quote is the lead in to your salespage... it's weak. You need a strong headline here to entice customers to read the rest of your salespage...

HOW am I dissatisfied with my current marketing efforts? WHY am I curious about professional internet marketing services? WHAT is an internet marketing campaign going to do for me?

Find the ROOT problem that businesses are having... what's the core problem I am experiencing when I am searching for services like yours and HOW can you help me? Hit my "emotional" buttons right away to get me (the business owner) to "read the rest of the story..."

I'll give you a more detailed personal reply later if you want... these were just some items that stood out at first glance...

You are taking action and that is the most important step!!!! You're off to a good start and have some good stuff so far but I feel that your sales page would be better utilized on the SERVICES page where you can describe all the IM services that you offer...

I just don't think that your potential business owner customer that you are going after is going to understand your salescopy... They won't "get it" which means you probably won't get their business

[istok]

I have had tremendous success offering clients management of a Facebook Fan page for a monthly fee. They are accepting the offer in more than 50% of the cases.

[Kevin Perry]

Originally Posted by EricWPM

Hi Kevin,

I'm going to be blunt... It's boring and completely written from an IM perspective. You need to think like a customer when writing salescopy! What questions/problems do customers have and what type of information are they looking for? What "interesting hook" will make them read your sales page??

You are taking action and that is the most important step!!!! You're off to a good start and have some good stuff so far but I feel that your sales page would be better utilized on the SERVICES page where you can describe all the IM services that you offer...

Hi Eric,
thank you for your honest opinion. That's why I posted it! Salescopy has never been my forte, so I guess I need to do some more research OR hire it out! I think you hit the nail on the head when saying that the current copy is better suited as a services page...but even then the customers I am hoping to target probably wouldn't understand any of that stuff!

Back to the drawing board...

[Tsarina]

Speaking of credibility and positioning there are two free certificates you can get. One is CIM (Competent Intenet Marketer) by "Web CEO University" Search Engine Optimization and Search Marketing Courses and another one is Inbound Marketing Certified Professional by InboundMarketing.com | Marketing news, jobs and forums . Both are verifiable on their website, and a badge on yours.

[AP]

Originally Posted by 242Studios.com

Hi Everybody,

I've been running a web design firm since 2006

Website Design:
·Package 1 ($297 per month):
oWebsite w/ up to 5 Pages
oAutomated Lead Capture System
o1 Newsletter a Month
oDomain Name
oWebsite hosting
o5 Email Addresses
oOnline Marketing Blueprint

I would love to get any input you all may have on the above. Of course the packages can be combined and modified to create a custom solution for each client. Let me know what you think!
-=Chris

You said "any" input, so here goes. Call me Simon Cowell ;-(

I'm here to help you make money, if it takes tough love, then so be it. BTW, I speak the same way to my clients. Blunt, gruff, even swear once in a while.

When I see a List like that I want to PUKE.

These are the type of lists my clients give to me and we laugh at it, honestly.

A list means YOU are a commodity, it tells me you are selling a PRODUCT. Products can be bought on EBAY, Travelocity, etc...

Either sell the Lowest price product and be a whore like WalMart or sell the Highest priced product and give unbelievable service. In order to make money by being the lowest price requires deep pockets. That's why it takes a company with pockets like WalMart to be the Price leader. Mom and pop can't compete.

A prospect can't go to any website and shop for ME.

I choose to work with you, not the other way around. YOU can't hand me a check and get my services, it doesn't work that way. I advise you to do the same.

I can tell you I personally like all my clients, we get along great. They know I am the boss when it comes to marketing. They respect my opinion and I always allow them to voice their opinion. They usually tell me what they want to do, then I tell them why it won't work.

The Questionnaire I will send next week tells me everything I need to know.

My Questionnaire takes 1.5 to 3 hours to complete Face to Face with the business owner. It depends upon how much he wants to tell you. My longest Questionnaire went 5 Hours, yes 5 hours. Guess what?

Initially the (then Prospect) was crossing his arms, giving me mixed signals etc... About 30 minutes into it he STOPPED me from proceeding any further. He said "I need to tell you something before we go any further." I said "uh oh!" Then the prospect went on to say how my questions were so thought provoking that he truly started to understand why his company was so messed up. He said "AP, I'm literally hanging onto your every word and absorbing everything, my head is spinning."

My Questions actually bring about the P-R-O-C-E-S-S without showing them any steps, mindmap, etc... You'll understand when you see the Questionnaire.

The prospect said "now I know what I have been doing wrong, it's so obvious, duh!" 5 days later I picked up my set-up fee of $20,000.

This guy Hangs off my every word, every marketing suggestion I make, he NEVER disagrees. I told him I would like his input before we implement a new project, he said "why would I question YOU, you have my best interest in mind. Even if a marketing idea fails, I know you'll come up with another idea that will knock it out of the park."

It's almost embarrassing when a client says that to your face, plus you feel compelled to put forth your best work. This guy gives me a referral practically every week, lol. I turn down 90% but at least he makes an attempt to give me good customers.

I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on Internet type work. Websites, SEO, PPC, Article writing, Video, Soc sites, etc...

The first thing I say to myself is "what can I do to help this client withOUT the use of the Internet."

Yep, screw Google, can't you guys see that Google is taking your lunch money away? I don't know your financial situation, but I'm not a Billionaire.

Think of it this way. What if you could cut the Fat & Waste from a clients Advertising/Marketing budget and at the same time increase their sales 10, 20, 50% or more in 12 months withOUT any Internet.

Imagine now when you Toss in your Internet skills. Talk about Lethal...yep, that's my new name Lethal AP

Google is practically doing away with Free Local Maps, now they are Monetizing Maps. Most SEO for Local is now below Maps and below the Fold. If anything, I would start learning how to use Paid Traffic for your clients.

I'm not sure if everyone here understands this dilemma. Large companies can't rely on just Search Engine traffic, they have to buy paid traffic to make money. Just do it on a smaller scale for your client.

I don't want my income to STOP because of some Search engine Billionaires screwing me over.

I will work the clients business from the Inside out first.

Just a few of the following ideas can do Wonders for a small biz, below 5M.

• Cut fat and waste from advertising. YP (rewrite ads, call tracking), print media, tv, radio, etc...
• Answer incoming calls or walk-in traffic and convert more Prospects to Buyers
• Train sales staff, even if you suggest they hire an outside firm to come in, like I do. I quit training.
• Reactivate past customer list. Setup the Lowly AWeber and get RICH. Teach them how to collect emails and write autoresponders. (I outsource the writing for my clients, I pay)
• Send out Monthly/Quarterly physical Newsletters (client pays)
• Direct Mail campaign (client pays)
• Do customer surveys via phone for follow up. (Client's employees makes the calls, secretary, sales staff, etc... when things are slow)
• Change the Owners "Mindset" like I have you. Anyone who has read all 13 pages and still is trying to sell a commodity IMHO is leaving a ton of money on the table.

BTW, have you Noticed that the above work involves NO money out of YOUR pocket? NO outsourcing of work for websites, SEO, article writing, etc... Simply set-up an account with AWeber (15 minutes with their credit card) $19, Single Opt-in for Local. Double opt-in is not required with Local customers. These are not National or Global companies I'm working with, keep it simple and build their list. Then outsource their Newsletter (client pays for).

If you can show a client a ROI on most anything you recommend, they'll do it all and be Happy to pay you most anything reasonable.

The above is MOST of what I do, honestly. My average client pays me over 30k year and I am moving up to much higher prospects. I landed my first 100K+ client about 5 months ago and that definitely woke me up. Now I don't want to work anyone less than 50k, seriously. I feel like I'm losing money. Sounds stupid, but that's what my Mindset now expects.

Does anyone here honestly NOT believe this will not significantly increase their sales and profits?

Now I’ll let you in on a Secret. By doing the above work, I have guaranteed my monthly check (for a lot longer than 12 months) because the client is guaranteed to make money.

Now add in your internet skills and all Hell breaks loose.

Can you imagine what happens when you add a Website or a redesign with lead capture, SEO, PPC, Article Writing, Press Releases, Video, etc... make sure the business can actually handle all the new business, seriously.

I had a client about 18 months ago that was ticked off at me. He said "I don't know what you did AP, but whatever it was you need to Turn if OFF."

I told him "it's not as easy as you think, the wheels have been put in motion, there is no OFF switch. The client had a small service shop with 7 employees and he simply got Overwhelmed with work and he wanted to FIRE me. Yes, fire AP. Can you believe that? He said customers were mad at him because he couldn't keep up the workload, quality was suffering, workers were burnt out, and the damn phones wouldn't stop ringing.

Learn some basic skills and you can make a very comfortable living with NO outsourcing.

~AP

Edit: I forgot something very important. Even though my clients stay with me for a long time, most of MY work is completed within 90 days. This is when the Internet marketing takes over and my client continues to prosper. The key is that I put money in his pocket FAST.

[Roca]

Thanks to everyone that participate on this thread. This has to go down as one of the best business education threads ever.