Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees?

Buildingfutures · 6th Feb 2010, 02:26 AM

AP, Dexx, and anyone else who cares to answer in this particular situation,

What is your opinion on a business who has not been around for six months, or a year?

Are these prime clients, or should we pass them up for a business that has been around longer?

I ask because the turnover rate of businesses and franchises where I live is outrageous, something new where something was every other month it seems, no one can really stay in business.

-Sean

Hail-To-The-Redskins · 6th Feb 2010, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Vagabond 007

And remember I said for the guy to tell that woman that he is seeing other women? This is why you don't answer the phone the instant a business owner calls you. You make them wait. And when you do talk to them, you don't set up a meeting the very next day at 9 in the morning. No. You are too busy "seeing other women".

This is again absolute gold dust from vagabond007. I learned this from Andrew Cavanaugh actually - he calls it 'posture' instead of positioning - well he is Australian, lol!

Even if you are NOT busy, act as if you are. You do not have to lie and say that you are busy with 50 clients, but just say "I can't see you until Thursday at 4pm".

Perception is reality my friends.

If they know that you are not busy and you agree to see them at 9am the next day, they are going to wonder why that is - then some awkward questions will arrive and you're not in control of the conversation.

All we have to do is follow the fantastic advice that we have seen from the key contributors on this forum, as we cannot fail. MINDSET!

Simon

AP · 6th Feb 2010, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Buildingfutures

AP, Dexx, and anyone else who cares to answer in this particular situation,

What is your opinion on a business who has not been around for six months, or a year?

Are these prime clients, or should we pass them up for a business that has been around longer?

I ask because the turnover rate of businesses and franchises where I live is outrageous, something new where something was every other month it seems, no one can really stay in business.

-Sean

Run as fast as you can.

If you have a family, a mortgage, a car payment, and you like to eat food, stay away from any business under 5 years incorporated. Once in a while I'll go 3+ but I need to learn more about the business first.

I like businesses who are incorporated 5+ years, cash flow is decent, currently spending money on advertising, has a high profit margin, and I know I can increase profits.

Hope that helps Sean.

~AP

Buildingfutures · 6th Feb 2010, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by AP

Run as fast as you can.

If you have a family, a mortgage, a car payment, and you like to eat food, stay away from any business under 5 years incorporated. Once in a while I'll go 3+ but I need to learn more about the business first.

I like business who are incorporated 5+ years, cash flow is decent, currently spending money on advertising, has a high profit margin, and I know I can increase profits.

Hope that helps Sean.

~AP

It certainly does. With my next mailer list I've been building up, I've been looking for as many long-term people as I can. Most are lawyers, realtors, or maybe some kind of contracting businesses. There are other misc businesses around that I know of that I can target as well.

For those of you who are worried about stability of your area, don't even think too hard on it, truly.

In the past three-five years, I've seen a k-mart close, toys-r-us close, all of my favorite pizza places close (non-franchise places), a Coldstone Creamery close, Verizon stores close, AT&T stores close, and most recently, the only Old Navy for 100 miles closed. Not to mention the small mom-n-pops that didn't make it these past few years. I also should mention these big-names, there was only one of them in this city/town to begin with.

But you know what? Something else always springs up in their places.

And it shows something else too. I've seen the shops that WON'T FAIL.

If you've lived somewhere for 3+ years, and have seen those stores STAY AROUND, by god go for it. They're obviously doing something right, why not help them be better?

If you can, (you might be able to at a goodwill or something) go find an old phone book, and see whose still in the book from a year, two years, three years ago. Call them up, and get crackin'.

I know I will.

-Sean

clawHAMMER · 6th Feb 2010, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by dru-man

It's 1 pm here. I've been up all night cranking cranking out my website video for my offline marketing squeeze page--something I've been meaning to put together for a few months now and somehow was always too busy. Yet slapped together in a night...lol First time I ever made a video if that sounds like a long time to you guys.

I haven't felt like this in a while--I think since about a year ago when I locked myself in a motel room and wrote my first novel. Serious wave of "unreality" washed over me reading this thread. And I love that.

I just want to say that for me the number one thing I'm finding of value in this thread is the energy. Don't get me wrong--the practical advice is priceless--but that's not what really got me charged. There's a real vibe here that is always an undercurrent on the warriorforum but gets drowned out a lot by other agendas.

I've been following what you guys are saying pretty closely here, and it's nothing new to me, but it's a part of myself I've lost touch with. Became numb to really. I've posted on this forum before about some of the things that happened to me--how I ended up getting chased out of my country with death hanging over my head over something that had nothing to do with me--how I took it in stride and used it as a reason to go explore the world but got stuck in sE Asia with no money barely making it by.

Found some good people on this forum that helped to pull me through it and met some good friends and in the end I learned to make a living online by grinding out services.
But I think a part of my heart died in the process--must have happened before I even got back to my feet.

You'd think out here living my dreams I'd be nothing but alive but maybe it was just after building my life out of nothing and seeing it crushed and building again and seeing it crushed again. Of having my life taken from me and losing the right to tell my family what city I live in...over nothing but bad luck.

I took those things that have happened me and made them a reason to push people further than I already pushed them--partly to minimize danger but also because something in my heart had died. And even though on the surface it looked like I kept trying--in reality I wasn't trying at all.

My life is still a wreck--I've pieced it back together but it doesn't fit. And I was always that guy who told my friends and family never to fall victim to circumstances.. never stop trying. Never accept a reality someone hands you.

You create your own reality. ONly you define what you do from the moment you open your eyes again and realize you're still alive and have another chance to shine. You move your fingers. You stand on your own two feet. And every second forwards is a second that is yours.

And though in a way I never gave in and never stopped trying, I feel I started pretending to try more than trying it all. Cause somewhere in my heart I decided it was okay to fail, becasue afterall, look at the hands I was dealt. Bullsh*t.

It's all just me. I knew that and told myself never to do that and told other people never to do that but somewhere along the way stopped listening.

I realize now by looking at some of the poeple on this forum how far I've wadnered from myself. even looking at Vagabond's books here, it's a stack of books not unlke my own back when I had a home.

And where I came from, gusy like me didn't read. People looked at those books like I was crazy and looked at me and always having a need to be more or work hard on that next million dollar idea as crazy. Crazy for trying to be so genuine and live by my morals as if was a matter of life and death. From selling candy at school as a child or getting in my big macho four wheel drive and feeding anthony robbines cd's to my amped up speakers--then selling that same truck so I could ride a bicycle to college. I was just different. My friends were great, but they were never like me.

this thread is already huge and now I'm crowding it with my diary. lol But at the risk of seeming melodramitic, I just felt I should break it down as I felt it. You guys inspired me; so that's the least I can do is give truth in return.

If there's one thing this thread has given me, it's a reminder of who I really am and what is still possible for me. Know thyself is tattooed on my forearm--you think I wouldn't forget but I guess tattoos are only skin-deep, right? Your clarity of thought. Your hunger for knowledge. Your dedication to being more and giving more. That's me. I turned my back on that--turned my back on my potential--but that's still me.

I'll make money in offline--been planning on that direction for quite some time and now I've got everything I need. But the wake up call I got over the last couple days is far more valuable than any dollar I'll ever make with that knowledge. Like-minded people have that effect on each other, I guess, and that's always been the most valuable thing about this forum.

dru-man...thaaaat was a heavy...and friggin' awesome post. Kudos. You pretty much sang my song for the last several years in your post there.

I can relate to just about everything you summerized, and you definately spelled it out alot better than I ever could. Your a great writer and your post kept me captivated right to the last word because it was like you were talking about me. Like I was reading my own "horror"scope for the past 5 years. The twists, turns, bad decisions, bad timing, bad luck unraveling of my own thoughts, beliefs and mindset. Alot of things were out of my control and nothing I could do but stand there and watch my life unravel like a slow motion train wreck. But alot of things I could've handled differently and maybe had a better outcome, a softer landing if I had the right mindset.

I lost my passion. I lost my focus. I lost interest. I was derailed. (2 of the 4 might be ADD related, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it) And I felt like I was always carrying a bunch of monkeys on my back all of a sudden. And months turned into several months, then 6 months, 12 months...and a year blew by before I knew it. And I found myself in a big rut. I heard somewhere a long time ago that a rut is nothing more than a grave with the ends kicked out of it. So true when it's put into perspective that way.

I too have spent the last 3 days reading and consuming this thread. I'm on Pg 21 right now and just had to comment on dru-mans post after reading it. Seriously dude, I applaud you for your sincere honesty and your eloquent post.

AP, what can I say? I'm grateful for your generosity and your wisdom you've so kindly spelled out in this thread that you've made me feel invigorated for the first time in a long, long time. Dexx, I salute you for starting this amazing life changing thread in the first place. You two, DogScout, vitto, Vagabond 007, Andrew C, dru-man and everyone else I forgot a HUGE THANK YOU! You've all lit a spark within me that's been dormant for several years trying to figure out what to do next, how am I going to make ends meet. The pieces to the puzzle that I've been switching around, mostly guessing, for a long time are finally coming together. I definately feel alot better about the bigger picture that I lost focus of than I did before I started reading this thread 3 "daze" ago. I feel like I've been cramming for an exam for 3 days trying to decipher and connect the dots and the knowledge everyone has so generously given here has been off the charts. Boy am I glad I stumbled upon this thread and I have no explanation why other than it must've been an omen.

Vagabond, you rock! I love your analogies and your quotes. And your gorgeous to boot, if your avatar is indeed you. You've explained some things in ways I never looked at that way before. I love the way your wheels turn! And like dru-man, I have several of the books you photographed and I've forgotten how inspired I used to be when they were apart of my life when sailing was smoother for me. Sadly, they've sat on my shelves for the last bunch of years collecting dust. Next to my Tony Robbins tapes. And Les Brown. And Jim Rohn. And Earl Nightengale. Books and tapes that inspired my creative juices and gave me some pep in my step every day. Educational materials that jazzed me when I'd read or listen to them.

I was always the guy that sorta marched to the beat of a different drum, frequently took the road less traveled. I used to tape famous quotes up on one of my bedroom walls growing up as a kid from successful people like those I mentioned above. I carried around a little notebook in my back pocket of famous quotes that I'd read and add to all the time. My friends and girlfriends thought I was probably dropped on my head when I was a baby and why I wasn't "normal" lol. But that stuff always inspired me. When I'd listen to Earl Nightengale, I felt like anything I wanted in life was attainable. Even at that young age I was subconsciously working that angle. Then as the years went by I somehow ended up on a roller coaster and some years were good, (financially speaking), some just ok and others were pretty bleak. Up and down. The last 5 that roller coaster hasn't been going up.
I think alot of us here can relate. At least those of us in the 97% struggling to acquire the proper mindset.

I really apologize for the long ramble. I meant to just send a kudos to dru-man and express my gratitude to everyone here whose given life to such a fabulous thread and my fingers just started having a mind of there own. I even slapped them but it didn't help, they just kept right on typing.

Sorry everyone if my post went off course, but it's all your fault. If everyone participating here wasn't so cool with their knowledge and wisdom I'd have never opened my mouth in the first place.

Oh, just one more thing, some of you have brought up the postcards. A few years back when I was a real estate investor/wholesaler I used a company that worked awesome in my postcard marketing and got me very solid leads. Some of you might be familiar with them, most of you aren't. For around a buck apiece they'll design them and mail them for you, no minimum quantities. Very professional looking and a variety of different sizes and price options. I always did the 5.5" x 6.5" size because it was a tad bigger than a reg postcard and if the picture turned out great it would really stand out and they couldn't help but notice it. What kind of photo do you use to capture the business owners attention so your card doesn't end up in the trash? A surfer? A beach scene? A train wreck :-)? Nope. Take a photo of their business establishment from the street w/ your digital. A nice photo. It works awesome-ly. That photo your going to upload to the postcard website along with your game-changing text. And if your really thinking outside the box you can go to your courthouse/library/online research if you don't know who the business owner is so you can refer to him by his personal name instead of "Dear Business Owner" in your postcard. I bet it would work like a charm. Put yourself in the biz owners shoes once. You have a stack of mail on your desk and you notice this postcard "hey, that's my store!" He's going to read it I guarantee you.
I'm telling you, getting a postcard photo of his business establishment in the mail with his personal name and your offer to rock his business world with your marketing know-how will get him to contact you. Just out of curiosity if nothing else. The rest is up to you, but it will get his attention and you'll definately have a high % of them jump into your sales funnel if they don't put the great photo you took into a picture frame and hang it on their wall instead. :-).

Oh, almost forgot to tell you. It's after 4am here EST and my eyez and fingers are whooped and the wheels aren't turning quite as fast, like about in creeper gear actually. The company is AmazingMail.com if you want a good, affordable postcard option in your marketing toolbox.

You can thank me now or you'll thank me later, and your very welcome. It's the least I can do.

When I started this post it had 23 pages and I'm page 21. I have no doubt a page or more has been added since I started rambling about 7 hours ago it seems :-). Looks like I got a couple more hours to read tomorrow (later today now) to finish this encyclopedia of inspirational, mindset-ting, mind-boggling information.

If you're still awake and you read this far and didn't nod out, my sincere thank you for your time and thx for riding along with me on this journey. And staying awake.

I leave you with this quote from the founder and pioneer of IBM, Thomas Watson:
"If you want to succeed, double your failure rate."

Again, much obliged to everyone here.

Lights out

Cheers \_/
Glenn

reilly3000 · 6th Feb 2010, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by AP

Jim, ideally I target businesses that can pay me 10k+ upfront plus $1,997+,
I also BARTER, yes I barter. Depending upon what the clients product or service is I will barter to help ease the cash problem for them.

I currently have my favorite restaurants pay me by Bartering. I have $18,000 every year to use for food, drink, or gift certificates. A Menswear shop that pays me $7,500 in clothes. A lawyer who does legal work for me, I market his practice. I have a car that I use that is bartered. Years ago I had an apartment that was paid for by a property management company.

In fact, I would highly recommend to anyone here to seriously consider Bartering with new customers.

It is so EASY for them to pay you in their service or product.

Ex: I have a restaurant that pays me $500 month in food/drinks. Their REAL cost is about 35% or $175 total. Think of it this way, the restaurant is out of pocket $175, but I feel like I got $500.

I market for them, I get $500 in food from my favorite Italian restaurant. I simply get $6k year and the owner has me sign the in-house store receipt. If I have money leftover at Xmas I get Gift certificates.

This started by accident. One day, as a joke, I inserted something into my agreement/contract. It was a high end Mexican restaurant. I inserted into the Last line that I get a Free lunch or dinner at least once per month as part of my agreement. It was just a joke to get the client laughing. While reading my agreement, the client looked up at me and started LOL, he said "are you serious?" I said yes, he said OK but keep it under $50.

He signed the agreement and I never honestly was going to take him up on that. I went in one day with a friend and when I was done the waitress said the owner wanted me to sign the receipt

He must have thought I was serious so I smiled, gave her a nice tip and walked out. Been going there for several years now, not as often as I'd like but he doesn't charge me a penny.

Of course I only barter for something that me or my family could use. Many times I do monthly cash + some bartering.

It's an EASY way to get in the door.

~AP

I have had a lot of success with bartering but recently took it to a new level. I just signed up with ITEX- they are a national network of business owners that barter for goods and services. What is unique about ITEX is they have created a barter ecosystem that makes it so you don't have to utilize all of the services from the people you trade with directly.

For example, I signed up with ITEX last week on Thursday and got my first ITEX check on Friday for a local pizza parlor with no web site...been in biz 25 years, think I can help them??? ( =

Instead of having to eat a years worth of pizza, I can use my ITEX dollars to get dental work, my car fixed, my windows cleaned etc. In my town there are 400 some businesses on ITEX, but they are nationwide.

There is more than just services on there. There was just an offer today for real estate deeded time shares for cheap (some were $1500 ITEX... ) I have also heard of people buying commercial property on ITEX- rare but happens due to massive tax advantages.

Anyhow, I'm pretty jazzed about it. Wanted to share with you all. Let me know if you sign on.

SteelDanno · 6th Feb 2010, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by AP

I also BARTER, yes I barter. Depending upon what the clients product or service is I will barter to help ease the cash problem for them.

I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one. A couple of my recent deals have been barter for $500 setup and $50 a month compounding store credits for simple Wordpress hosted sites (I customized a simple theme and got the sites up and running). It's not a lot but it's a total of $1000 upfront setup cash and $1200 worth of stuff each year for what turns out to be 4-5 hours work per site (I can design and deploy WP sites in my sleep).

Highly recommend barter. Great way to cut down expenses that you would otherwise incur and is very attractive to vendors who want what you have anyways.

Note: I'll be upping the stakes next time now that I'm locked and loaded with the knowledge from this thread!

Dexx · 6th Feb 2010, 04:26 AM

I did a barter this past summer, received a hot air balloon ride for my gf and I in exchange for my Target Marketing Interview / report for the balloon company.

So basically a $500 amazing flight in exchange for a one hour interview, unfortunately the company started to get too much on the "how about we give you this instead" type route and I knew it was gonna be a headache.

Too bad really, nice people, but cheap clients = nightmare down the road.

~Dexx

reilly3000 · 6th Feb 2010, 04:57 AM

In regards to demanding an uninterrupted meeting, AP I feel this is some of the best advice you've given.

I know this the hard way--- I have a good client that I could have done a lot of things for, but ended up just doing a cheap wordpress site. I didn't control the conversation or command respect. Every time we meet I go to him (I have a nice office downtown he's never seen). We'll be talking and he'll take phone calls and let his employees interrupt us. It kills me. Sitting there twiddling my thumbs or trying to look busy on my PC is just embarrassing. It really wastes my time when he's getting work done and I'm sitting idle.

I got site done, then he was second guessing my SEO and PPC roadmap and actually started running his own PPC when I was running some for him. I dropped him even though I know I could have brought some a lot of bacon for him...

The facts are that there isn't anybody for 100 miles that is better at Wordpress than me (in my humble opinion), I can deliver with SEO, write amazing sales copy, and have been selling offline for years (I was with Xerox before I got out of college, then Canon, Experian, and AT&T). I was consistently the youngest and most top producing sales person wherever I went and have enjoyed lots of award trips and financial perks for doing so (Try bringing in $4.53M with a $2M quota). I turned down 4 clients last month including a 25% equity deal in an established business... I have gotten candidates elected, written custom SMS marketing software, managed over 100 sites, set up e-commerce stores with 1,000s of products, and been to some stellar conferences with the best people in my industry. I know my stuff. And more than that, I have an Army of Warriors to back me up.

The problem is- sometimes I forget that. Sometimes I am just a 26 year old "web guy" to these business owners. Sometimes I believe their side of the story. MINDSET IS SO IMPORTANT. When I was really successful I was doing phone sales and my clients had no idea that I was this young tubby brown dude, that worked really well for me. By deepening my voice and speaking with authority I was able to tell CEOs of $20M companies how it was going to be. Now I'm just some kid back in his home town- people have always told me I have the mind of a 50 year old... but if face to face meetings I don't have the presence that some sharp, tall ruggedly handsome 40 something white guy has ( I say white guy because I live in a fairly homogenous region and even though I come from there and have deep roots in the local culture, I look like I'm from somewhere else- anywhere from Mexico, to Africa, to India). And I am overweight... not obese, but I haven't really focused on my appearance. I always felt that was a bit superficial (even though I know that isn't true). The biggest thing though is my age - this guy through at me today that he's been in business for 35 years and he knew how to do marketing. I had just struck up a conversation with him since he seemed not to have a web site and I was buying something from him. He honestly was convinced he knew more than me about marketing even though he was clueless about ANYthing online, writing headlines, dunning letters, etc. Because of my age. I guess I shouldn't feel so bad, there is that 16 year old on here who's got it way worse than me.

The bottom line is I have a wife, two kids, plenty of bills, and need to earn some real money. I haven't been charging nearly enough because I have the mentality that I can't call myself a marketing consultant and be taken seriously. So I have been kind doing piecemeal web work, but not charging for my marketing expertise.

AP, others, you've been at this for a while- how did you get your start in the credibility game? Do you think you could charge $20K upfront and $3K/month DOING THE SAME THING YOU'RE DOING if you were in your mid twenties? What would you do differently to sell yourself? What is the angle?

How can I let people know who they are dealing with without coming across arrogant? Humility has always served me well. But it isn't working for me when the owner of a struggling business won't give me the time of day.

I AM working on my first book. I hope that will help my standing, but I have got to start doing the takeaway thing to reinforce my credibility or something.

In that scenario, should I have just said, "we can do this another time" and walked? Or is it better to have him feel he owes me something by waiting patiently while he was rude?

Jeez, this feels more like therapy than IM talk... I will certainly ask for prospects to clear their schedule if they want to meet with me.

Ron Lafuddy · 6th Feb 2010, 05:43 AM

AP,

Have you ever taken an equity position in any of the businesses you've worked with?
Somewhere you mentioned your "VC" approach, and that got me thinkin'.
Seems to be the next logical step from just accepting payments.

Put just 10 of those suckers in place and let them run for a while, 5-10 years. Talk about building wealth - - tax free too, until you collect your share!

Oh my………. got me drooling on the keyboard here.

Lafuddy

Fernando Veloso · 6th Feb 2010, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by reilly3000

We'll be talking and he'll take phone calls and let his employees interrupt us.

I'll give him one chance to explain what the heck is so important for him to interrupt our meeting.

If he does it again, I'll just stand up, hand-shack him, smile and leave. When he asks wtf I'll tell him he's not respecting our schedule and frankly, that is not a good sign. So thank you.

Last year had to do this to a big customer representative always text messaging, answering calls, acting like a very busy administrative... My wife wanted to kill me when I got up and told him "Thanks your time. If you need anything, just call us".

They never called but man, that felt good.

And yes, they still pay a fortune to keep doing what they were doing in 2009 with no results - that's why they called us first place.

Over here we have lots of these funny corporate "marketing representatives". For them marketing is asking their secretary to call the local newspaper and buy a full page ad. Not their money, who cares.

Oh and they ask the newspaper guy to write/design the ad.

Fernando Veloso · 6th Feb 2010, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy

AP,

Have you ever taken an equity position in any of the businesses you've worked with?
Somewhere you mentioned your "VC" approach, and that got me thinkin'.
Seems to be the next logical step from just accepting payments.

Put just 10 of those suckers in place and let them run for a while, 5-10 years. Talk about building wealth - - tax free too, until you collect your share!

Oh my………. got me drooling on the keyboard here.

Lafuddy

What the hell are you talking about dude? Did you read the whole thread? Are you sure this is the same forum you use everyday? :rolleyes:

Pat Ordenes · 6th Feb 2010, 08:06 AM

I wish i had seen the advice about the meeting earlier...
I had a meeting with a 'big fish' on Thursday, and it was meant to be with the Managing Director of the company. I was on email and phone contact direct with him, yet once the meeting started the story changed...
I was first greeted by the PR girl, which I figured it was while he got ready, etc...
Then another guy walks in the board room, interrupting my chat with the PR girl, and forcing me to repeat myself...
Finally the MD arrives, he pushes to get an 'overall' idea of what I can offer, etc...
i push on trying to get through my questions, and its a mess!!!
They now expect a quote for a New site with a complex ecommerce solution, e-marketing, tracking systems etc... on Monday

I'm going to quote what I'm expected from them, which is NOT low, but I'm afraid my chances of getting the job are severely damaged as a result of the meeting.
I literally felt the control of the room being lost...

I wonder if there's a way to remedy the situation.
Let it be a lesson to all...

Be in control!! I SHOULD have left the meeting and asked for a new time JUST with the MD. Lack of experience got the better of me.

vitto · 6th Feb 2010, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Dexx

I did a barter this past summer, received a hot air balloon ride for my gf and I in exchange for my Target Marketing Interview / report for the balloon company.

So basically a $500 amazing flight in exchange for a one hour interview, unfortunately the company started to get too much on the "how about we give you this instead" type route and I knew it was gonna be a headache.

Too bad really, nice people, but cheap clients = nightmare down the road.

~Dexx

Same here, I went to get my biz cards printed for an event and the printer asked me what makes me an expert "Internet Marketing Expert" (which I will be changing because I now see its much more than IM), I gave him my elevator speech, he asked a questions, and I gave a few answers.

When I went to pick up the biz cards, he gave them to me for free just because I answered a few questions.

My chiropractor is giving my wife and I adjustments for the next 3 months in exchange for video marketing in which I direct traffic to a landing page. Its cool because he gives me referrals and when his current contract is done (in 3 months) we'll be working on his marketing campaign. PLUS, when new prospects wanted to see a reference, I used him.

The bartering system is very beneficial, but to be used in caution as stated by Dexx and AP.

vitto · 6th Feb 2010, 09:01 AM

reilly3000

Based on what I know now, though I still have much to learn, I would have told him to call you when better time permits. You have to show him that you take your time very seriously, because if you do not respect the one thing you can not get back, he will never respect you.

Out of anger (which probably isn't a good thing) I would have sent Direct Mail letters to his competitors. Locked in a deal and I would have done my best to make sure his competition dominated the market place in that niche. And when he ask his competition, "how do you do it?" the competition will bring you out..

But in all seriousness, believe in your self, believe in your work and allow no one to waste your time.
confessions of noob.

Roca · 6th Feb 2010, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Pat Ordenes

I wish i had seen the advice about the meeting earlier...
I had a meeting with a 'big fish' on Thursday, and it was meant to be with the Managing Director of the company. I was on email and phone contact direct with him, yet once the meeting started the story changed...
I was first greeted by the PR girl, which I figured it was while he got ready, etc...
Then another guy walks in the board room, interrupting my chat with the PR girl, and forcing me to repeat myself...
Finally the MD arrives, he pushes to get an 'overall' idea of what I can offer, etc...
i push on trying to get through my questions, and its a mess!!!
They now expect a quote for a New site with a complex ecommerce solution, e-marketing, tracking systems etc... on Monday

I'm going to quote what I'm expected from them, which is NOT low, but I'm afraid my chances of getting the job are severely damaged as a result of the meeting.
I literally felt the control of the room being lost...

I wonder if there's a way to remedy the situation.
Let it be a lesson to all...

Be in control!! I SHOULD have left the meeting and asked for a new time JUST with the MD. Lack of experience got the better of me.

Gets back to positioning. No company will do that with a McKinsey, Boston Consulting or Accenture, because they know up front that they will be getting value. Even if we do target companies that won't get into multi-million dollar engagements with those large consulting firms, there is no reason why we cannot command the same level of respect in our target markets.

jacquic · 6th Feb 2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by reilly3000

In regards to demanding an uninterrupted meeting, AP I feel this is some of the best advice you've given.

Now I'm just some kid back in his home town- people have always told me I have the mind of a 50 year old... but if face to face meetings I don't have the presence that some sharp, tall ruggedly handsome 40 something white guy has ( I say white guy because I live in a fairly homogenous region and even though I come from there and have deep roots in the local culture, I look like I'm from somewhere else- anywhere from Mexico, to Africa, to India).

And how much time do the pale skinned folk (like me) spend trying to get a tan? I wonder how much of this is just your perception? Stand tall and enjoy your lovely coloured skin. If you don't mind, then most others won't. Those that do - they're the ones with the problem, and you are better off without them in your life.

And I am overweight... not obese, but I haven't really focused on my appearance. I always felt that was a bit superficial (even though I know that isn't true). You may choose to start toning up (gets the enorphins flowing at any rate), but in the meantime, just get some clothes that complement your shape, size and colouring, stand tall, smile and exude confidence (even if you don't yet feel it). It's amazing the difference it will make to how people react to you.

The biggest thing though is my age - this guy through at me today that he's been in business for 35 years and he knew how to do marketing. I had just struck up a conversation with him since he seemed not to have a web site and I was buying something from him. He honestly was convinced he knew more than me about marketing even though he was clueless about ANYthing online, writing headlines, dunning letters, etc. Because of my age. I guess I shouldn't feel so bad, there is that 16 year old on here who's got it way worse than me.

Whenever I go into a computer store, I always look for the younger assistants because they'll know what I'm talking about, and they can explain things properly to me. And if it's any help, I get people telling me about how to do my job, and I'm 48. I smile pleasantly, let my mind drift, say well done/thank you, and move off to speak with someone else.

However, I saw a chap in his twenties giving a talk at a conference I was at. He is very successful. I didn't like him. Now, it's unual for me to not like someone, so I thought about it. He was a bit abrasive which I don't much like, but, hey, so what, I can cope with that.

Then I realised it wasn't him at all; it was me. I was jealous. Jealous that he had done so much and I hadn't, and I'm much older than him (never mind the fact that calculators weren't even invented when I was at school; we used slide rules

).

From then on, I listened very carefully to him (and other youngsters) because I realised there is so much to learn from everyone if we can just put our own egos aside.

As for him, it was no skin off his nose if some people don't like him - he gives off confidence and most people react very favourably.

The jealousy was in fact stemming from anger at myself, for not letting my talents shine through, and to be too happy to take small fees and rubbish off people, and to be dictated by what I thought other people were thinking.

Don't let that happen to you. You're obviously talented, you have a family that loves you, and you'll have many people wanting to hire you. You could, of course, target some younger business owners too - ones who understand entrepreneurial thinking, but haven't the time or knowledge to do what you can.

You could make your young(ish) age part of your package/USP.

Jacqui

TheMagicShow · 6th Feb 2010, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by reilly3000

In regards to demanding an uninterrupted meeting, AP I feel this is some of the best advice you've given.

I know this the hard way--- I have a good client that I could have done a lot of things for, but ended up just doing a cheap wordpress site. I didn't control the conversation or command respect. Every time we meet I go to him (I have a nice office downtown he's never seen). We'll be talking and he'll take phone calls and let his employees interrupt us. It kills me. Sitting there twiddling my thumbs or trying to look busy on my PC is just embarrassing. It really wastes my time when he's getting work done and I'm sitting idle.

I got site done, then he was second guessing my SEO and PPC roadmap and actually started running his own PPC when I was running some for him. I dropped him even though I know I could have brought some a lot of bacon for him...

The facts are that there isn't anybody for 100 miles that is better at Wordpress than me (in my humble opinion), I can deliver with SEO, write amazing sales copy, and have been selling offline for years (I was with Xerox before I got out of college, then Canon, Experian, and AT&T). I was consistently the youngest and most top producing sales person wherever I went and have enjoyed lots of award trips and financial perks for doing so (Try bringing in $4.53M with a $2M quota). I turned down 4 clients last month including a 25% equity deal in an established business... I have gotten candidates elected, written custom SMS marketing software, managed over 100 sites, set up e-commerce stores with 1,000s of products, and been to some stellar conferences with the best people in my industry. I know my stuff. And more than that, I have an Army of Warriors to back me up.

The problem is- sometimes I forget that. Sometimes I am just a 26 year old "web guy" to these business owners. Sometimes I believe their side of the story. MINDSET IS SO IMPORTANT. When I was really successful I was doing phone sales and my clients had no idea that I was this young tubby brown dude, that worked really well for me. By deepening my voice and speaking with authority I was able to tell CEOs of $20M companies how it was going to be. Now I'm just some kid back in his home town- people have always told me I have the mind of a 50 year old... but if face to face meetings I don't have the presence that some sharp, tall ruggedly handsome 40 something white guy has ( I say white guy because I live in a fairly homogenous region and even though I come from there and have deep roots in the local culture, I look like I'm from somewhere else- anywhere from Mexico, to Africa, to India). And I am overweight... not obese, but I haven't really focused on my appearance. I always felt that was a bit superficial (even though I know that isn't true). The biggest thing though is my age - this guy through at me today that he's been in business for 35 years and he knew how to do marketing. I had just struck up a conversation with him since he seemed not to have a web site and I was buying something from him. He honestly was convinced he knew more than me about marketing even though he was clueless about ANYthing online, writing headlines, dunning letters, etc. Because of my age. I guess I shouldn't feel so bad, there is that 16 year old on here who's got it way worse than me.

The bottom line is I have a wife, two kids, plenty of bills, and need to earn some real money. I haven't been charging nearly enough because I have the mentality that I can't call myself a marketing consultant and be taken seriously. So I have been kind doing piecemeal web work, but not charging for my marketing expertise.

AP, others, you've been at this for a while- how did you get your start in the credibility game? Do you think you could charge $20K upfront and $3K/month DOING THE SAME THING YOU'RE DOING if you were in your mid twenties? What would you do differently to sell yourself? What is the angle?

How can I let people know who they are dealing with without coming across arrogant? Humility has always served me well. But it isn't working for me when the owner of a struggling business won't give me the time of day.

I AM working on my first book. I hope that will help my standing, but I have got to start doing the takeaway thing to reinforce my credibility or something.

In that scenario, should I have just said, "we can do this another time" and walked? Or is it better to have him feel he owes me something by waiting patiently while he was rude?

Jeez, this feels more like therapy than IM talk... I will certainly ask for prospects to clear their schedule if they want to meet with me.

If people, know about your businesses/services and you do a damn good job, then you can build credibility. You don't gain awesome credibility right away, my man AP has been in the game for a longtime and he doesn't have to talk about people, people talk about him and they pursue him.

Offer good service, and get referrals.

DogScout · 6th Feb 2010, 10:42 AM

I have a client I took when they were in biz just 6 months. It is a barter deal. The client is a doctor and the only of 20+ doctors that has been able to reduce my pain at all.

(Car accident left me in constant pain and on 120 MGs of morphine twice a day that little but take the edge off. Regular doctors wanted to up the dose to 200 mgs twice a day, an amount about a hair from overdose levels. Frankly, what I was on would kill some people. They refused a withdrawal protocol as it was explained withdrawing from that much of a dose has a 50/50 death rate. I ended up designing my own withdrawal protocol and found a doctor that would prescribe what I wanted.

Found a Naturapath and had IV amino acid drips daily and supplements I researched and wanted from him. Got off the morphine in 10 days with no side effects but a bit of irritability and night sweats. Still on 80 mgs of hydrocodone and 20 mgs of valium a day, but that is a tenth of what I was on.. I would rather put up with some pain than take some of the stuff that is recommended by the mainstream medical community.

If I was willing to take the morphine, at the reduced pain levels I have (thanks to the doc) I would probably feel no pain, but unwilling to become an addict. I take less Hydrocodone than prescribed and put up with more pain instead. Both pain and pain meds cause a lack of focus, so it is 72 of one and ½ a gross of another. I also pick a day a week and take nothing, stay in bed and suffer thru the pain.

When Katrina went thru New Orleans, an awful lot of pain patients suffered painful deaths when they couldn't get their meds. That will not happen to me. If I stopped today, I'd be in a lot of pain, but I wouldn't die as I am careful to stay as un-addicted as possible.

Anyway, I barter with him. retail, I get an average of a couple grand a month in services from him. Believe me, I need as much as I can get from a person that knows their stuff. So while he is a new business, I am part of the reason he is still around, and that is based on what I did before learning a lot more from this thread. (He has some competitors within a block that spend 30k+ in adwords alone!) He was no idea what good things are headed his way. I also turned him on the the local GKIC people, trademarking his protocol, and having a book ghost written for him. I have spent, time wise, over 70% of the time with his biz doing off-line ad stuff with him. Having him succeed is more important than how he succeeds.

"For every dollar given to me, I return 2-20 times the value of that dollar. I become 'unstoppable'"
~Frank Kern

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

jacquic · 6th Feb 2010, 10:49 AM

Can anyone recommend a writer do scripts for a) selling seats to workshops (business), and b) so I can give a script to a business owner for their staff to use when people phone through?

Thanks

Jacqui

DogScout · 6th Feb 2010, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Pat Ordenes

I wish i had seen the advice about the meeting earlier...
I had a meeting with a 'big fish' on Thursday, and it was meant to be with the Managing Director of the company. I was on email and phone contact direct with him, yet once the meeting started the story changed...
I was first greeted by the PR girl, which I figured it was while he got ready, etc...
Then another guy walks in the board room, interrupting my chat with the PR girl, and forcing me to repeat myself...
Finally the MD arrives, he pushes to get an 'overall' idea of what I can offer, etc...
i push on trying to get through my questions, and its a mess!!!
They now expect a quote for a New site with a complex ecommerce solution, e-marketing, tracking systems etc... on Monday

I'm going to quote what I'm expected from them, which is NOT low, but I'm afraid my chances of getting the job are severely damaged as a result of the meeting.
I literally felt the control of the room being lost...

I wonder if there's a way to remedy the situation.
Let it be a lesson to all...

Be in control!! I SHOULD have left the meeting and asked for a new time JUST with the MD. Lack of experience got the better of me.

I think my response on Monday would be:

"Based on the inability of your company to conduct a simple meeting, I feel it would not be in my (or your) best interest to attempt to do any work for your company. Based on what I experienced at our meeting, I cannot imagine even being paid on time. Perhaps you are more in need of an organizational consultant. In any case I appreciate the chance to meet you. If ever you are able to put two to five hours aside for a real business meeting, we can try again if you wish. Otherwise best of luck to you,
Pat

clawHAMMER · 6th Feb 2010, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by SteelDanno

I thought Vagabond was a hot blonde chick. I watched his direct mail videos and turns out he's a dude.

Nooo waaay! Are you serious? I'm remote and wireless and unable to watch video out here when it's real windy.

Boy do I feel embarrassed after commenting how gorgeous she is by her avatar in a previous post here. Geez, isn't that special? I had no clue either.

It was really late and I was really tired and I wasn't wearing any beer goggles.

Bummer he's a dude and not the attractive dude-ette I thought or I would've worded things differently in that earlier post of mine.

Regardless, I like his style and he's really dished up some awesome thought provoking content on this thread that has been sincerely appreciated.

But why the attractive female avatar?

Inquiring minds wanna know....?

Rock on

Glenn

slvrsrfr · 6th Feb 2010, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Pat Ordenes

I wonder if there's a way to remedy the situation.
Let it be a lesson to all...

Be in control!! I SHOULD have left the meeting and asked for a new time JUST with the MD. Lack of experience got the better of me.

What I'd do, is send them a quote, but add a 25% premium to it. So do your quote as you would normally and then upsize the price.

I'd do this because a) you've lost control of the situation and because of that b) I foresee this client becoming a pain in the ass, so you want to make it worthwhile.

As AP and others have said before. It is as important who you DON'T work with as who you DO work with.

Keep us posted,

Jason

PS. I think DogScout's idea is even sounder!

DogScout · 6th Feb 2010, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by slvrsrfr

What I'd do, is send them a quote, but add a 25% premium to it. So do your quote as you would normally and then upsize the price.

I'd do this because a) you've lost control of the situation and because of that b) I foresee this client becoming a pain in the ass, so you want to make it worthwhile.

As AP and others have said before. It is as important who you DON'T work with as who you DO work with.

Keep us posted,

Jason

If you bother with a quote... double it, but even that may not be worth the aggravation.
Remember, this is supposed to be fun; or you may as well get a job.

TimCastleman · 6th Feb 2010, 11:11 AM

Wow this thing won't die.

I laugh when I see some of the advice being thrown around here. Things like be in control, assert your power, etc. Sounds more like a wrestling match than you trying to help offline companies.

Understand that there are stupid people and businesses everywhere. Some will try to get your information for free, some won't hire you even if it is in their best interest.

Also understand that there is more business than you could ever handle. Seriously, I can't work with them all - even if I wanted to.

A meeting not going well - on to the next one.
A customer say no thanks - on to the next one.
A guy being a jerk and not answering your questions - you get the idea.

You're there to help them - if they can't see it then sucks to be them.

Tim

Bayo · 6th Feb 2010, 11:37 AM

Tim: I laugh when I see some of the advice being thrown around here. Things like be in control, assert your power, etc. Sounds more like a wrestling match than you trying to help offline companies.

It's like when I see people use the highly combatant terms "Crush!, Kill!!, Destroy! etc

Tim: Understand that there are stupid people and businesses everywhere. Some will try to get your information for free, some won't hire you even if it is in their best interest.

Surely people should know that this is the norm in internet marketing - So if anyone is really surprised at local businesses behaving this way ... it's time to wake up and taste the coffee.

Good points Tim.

sb · 6th Feb 2010, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bayo

Tim: I laugh when I see some of the advice being thrown around here. Things like be in control, assert your power, etc. Sounds more like a wrestling match than you trying to help offline companies.

It's like when I see people use the highly combatant terms "Crush!, Kill!!, Destroy! etc

Tim: Understand that there are stupid people and businesses everywhere. Some will try to get your information for free, some won't hire you even if it is in their best interest.

Surely people should know that this is the norm in internet marketing - So if anyone is really surprised at local businesses behaving this way ... it's time to wake up and taste the coffee.

Good points Tim.

Wow. I'm really surprised to see you two guys so far off base. I'm not laughing...

Rabs1979 · 6th Feb 2010, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by AP

I also BARTER, yes I barter. Depending upon what the clients product or service is I will barter to help ease the cash problem for them.
~AP

Actually the set up I have with the chiropractor is a barter - he is checking my family (my husband, kids, and parents) for free in return for my IM services so I guess I really can't say I'm doing it for free. However, we don't have an explicit contract on it so we probably should just to make it clear.

BTW, thanks for the Ben Altadonna recommendation -will def read up to see how I can implement his processes with my chiro.

Rabs1979 · 6th Feb 2010, 01:02 PM

Just read this on WebProNews today. I know AP & Vagabond have shown us how to move beyond just offering SEO / IM services, but this is just proof why SEO services need to be maintained thus justifying an ongoing monthly maintenance fee (the whole article references a statement by Matt Cutts himself):

"Link velocity refers to the speed at which new links to a webpage are formed, and by this term we may gain some new and vital insight. Historically, great bursts of new links to a specific page has been considered a red flag, the quickest way to identify a spammer trying to manipulate the results by creating the appearance of user trust. This led to Google's famous assaults on link farms and paid link directories.

But the Web has changed, become more of a live Web than a static document Web. We have the advent of social bookmarking, embedded videos, links, buttons, and badges, social networks, real-time networks like Twitter and Friendfeed. Certainly the age of a website is still an indication of success and trustworthiness, but in an environment of live, real time updating, the age of a link as well as the slowing velocity of incoming links may be indicators of stale content in a world that values freshness."

Google Doesn't Care if You USED to Get Links | WebProNews

Curleyjohn · 6th Feb 2010, 01:48 PM

I'm a little confused.

Should the first meeting be just questionnaire and then a review of the clients current positioning both on and off line.

Or should you have some kind of marketing and profit maximization plan before you get to that first meeting and then share that plan during the first meeting.

It was my understanding that we should do the interview, wow them with the knowledge we have for their competition and current positioning and then schedule the second meeting.

At the second meeting, how in depth should we go when describing our plan of attack. Especially when it comes to ideas for growing and improving the business from the inside?

My guess would be to lay all the info on them at the second meeting or possibly the third if you used the second meeting to observe the operating procedures of the company.
I would think being specific and showing exactly how your putting $ to the bottom line is only going to help seal the deal.

I'm sure most won't follow up even if they were trying to just get free info.

Am I on track here?

Spark · 6th Feb 2010, 02:02 PM

I believe that's different method to close the sales.

But i believe 1st meeting is to get your presentation first then questionnaire. If possible, show him the info of their competitors. Give them some info will do.

Mention that during 2nd meeting, plans will be out together with competitors info. Give more reasons why they need these to be use in their plans. And more reason to see us.

This is how i think. I am not sure how other thinks. Perhaps warriors can their thoughts on this as well.

Fernando Veloso · 6th Feb 2010, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Curleyjohn

I'm a little confused.

We're all every now and then.

So, from my experience, sometimes you need to take Plan A, or you need to follow Plan B. Or even create a Plan C in the spot.

But every approach can be different, cause these potential customers have different needs.

AndrewCavanagh · 6th Feb 2010, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Curleyjohn

I'm a little confused.

Should the first meeting be just questionnaire and then a review of the clients current positioning both on and off line.

Or should you have some kind of marketing and profit maximization plan before you get to that first meeting and then share that plan during the first meeting.

It was my understanding that we should do the interview, wow them with the knowledge we have for their competition and current positioning and then schedule the second meeting.

At the second meeting, how in depth should we go when describing our plan of attack. Especially when it comes to ideas for growing and improving the business from the inside?

My guess would be to lay all the info on them at the second meeting or possibly the third if you used the second meeting to observe the operating procedures of the company.
I would think being specific and showing exactly how your putting $ to the bottom line is only going to help seal the deal.

I'm sure most won't follow up even if they were trying to just get free info.

Am I on track here?

Everyone does this differently.

My suggestion would be that in your first meeting you should collect information.

From there you might make suggestions on the spot and run with one that gets your prospect excited.

Or you might feel out your prospect to get an idea of what's most likely to get him excited.

Why do I recommend not going in with a plan of action on the first meeting?

If you do that you're going to come across as a sales person trying to sell a service you have instead of a consultant trying to work out what their problems and needs are and customizing a solution for them.

Also when you're asking questions and listening you're building rapport which dramatically increases your chances of getting hired.

There are exceptions to this but generally speaking you'll get hired a lot more often if you're asking questions and listening than if you're trying to sell a solution.

In the words of the late, great Cavet Robert "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care about them."

Taking the time to get to know a business owner and his business before you start offering solutions is common sense and it works on many different levels.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

Hail-To-The-Redskins · 6th Feb 2010, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Curleyjohn

I'm a little confused.

Should the first meeting be just questionnaire and then a review of the clients current positioning both on and off line.

Or should you have some kind of marketing and profit maximization plan before you get to that first meeting and then share that plan during the first meeting.

It was my understanding that we should do the interview, wow them with the knowledge we have for their competition and current positioning and then schedule the second meeting.

At the second meeting, how in depth should we go when describing our plan of attack. Especially when it comes to ideas for growing and improving the business from the inside?

My guess would be to lay all the info on them at the second meeting or possibly the third if you used the second meeting to observe the operating procedures of the company.
I would think being specific and showing exactly how your putting $ to the bottom line is only going to help seal the deal.

I'm sure most won't follow up even if they were trying to just get free info.

Am I on track here?

Andrew is of course absolutely right and I owe a lot of my success to his advice over the past 6 months

If you go in with a preconceived plan then potentially you're going to be viewed as a YP salesman, or any other salesman for that matter.

And remember ... we are not salesmen .... we are consultants and the number 1 priority in that first meeting is to ask questions and gather information as this will enable you to see what you think needs to be done and then put a proposal/price together for your client.

Just think about someone coming to see you and 'thinking' they knew all your problems, issues and challenges and tried to sell you something ... you'd be a little suspicious eh?

Business owners are no different - and don't forget, they get bombarded by salesman each and every week trying to sell them something.

So we have to be different

Hope this makes sense?

Thanks

Simon

Vagabond 007 · 6th Feb 2010, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by clawHAMMER

Nooo waaay! Are you serious? I'm remote and wireless and unable to watch video out here when it's real windy.

Boy do I feel embarrassed after commenting how gorgeous she is by her avatar in a previous post here. Geez, isn't that special? I had no clue either.

It was really late and I was really tired and I wasn't wearing any beer goggles.

Bummer he's a dude and not the attractive dude-ette I thought or I would've worded things differently in that earlier post of mine.

Regardless, I like his style and he's really dished up some awesome thought provoking content on this thread that has been sincerely appreciated.

But why the attractive female avatar?

Inquiring minds wanna know....?

Rock on

Glenn

I started using that avatar because I was curious about something. And my suspicions were confirmed.

I may end up putting up my real pic sometime. I hope you guys will still like my posts. :confused: :p

Originally Posted by sb

Wow. I'm really surprised to see you two guys so far off base. I'm not laughing...

I agree with what Tim said.

It's all about mindset. If they don't see the value in what you have to offer, ASSUMING you explained it very clearly, then why would you spend another minute of your life trying to convince them otherwise?

Move on. There is always another bus right behind them.

Trying to convince them otherwise is like the typical nice guy taking a pretty girl out to dinner and showering her with gifts. He keeps thinking that "If I keep doing all of these nice things for her, one day she'll realize how great I am and start liking me."

NO! The more you put on a mask and keep buying her things, the more she will take advantage of you. She loses respect for you each time you try to validate yourself. She sees that you don't respect your own self. If you did you wouldn't do the things you are doing.

Same goes with business owners. The more you allow them to push you around the more they are going to push you around. And the less respect they'll have for you since you are allowing them to do so.

If you had any self respect you'd stand up for yourself and not allow anyone to mistreat you and waste your time. People that waste my time piss me off. It's the ultimate form of disrespect. They are wasting the ONE AND ONLY thing I will never get back. But since most people don't put a dollar amount on THEIR time, they don't see the big deal in wasting YOUR time.

The more I learned about sales the less I actually tried to sell. And ironically, the more I sold.

People can pick up on what you're about. If you view them as your next car payment, they will sense it ad get turned off. If they sense that you can really help them BUT it's no big deal to you if you don't get the deal because there are others out there who you can help as well, they will sense that too.

Remember, people want what they can't have. The more you act like you don't want something from them, the more they try to give it to you. We are hardwired to act like this! We can't help it.

Originally Posted by reilly3000

The facts are that there isn't anybody for 100 miles that is better at Wordpress than me (in my humble opinion),

I was consistently the youngest and most top producing sales person wherever I went and have enjoyed lots of award trips and financial perks for doing so (Try bringing in $4.53M with a $2M quota).

I turned down 4 clients last month including a 25% equity deal in an established business... I have gotten candidates elected, written custom SMS marketing software, managed over 100 sites, set up e-commerce stores with 1,000s of products, and been to some stellar conferences with the best people in my industry. I know my stuff.

The problem is- sometimes I forget that. Sometimes I am just a 26 year old "web guy" to these business owners. Sometimes I believe their side of the story. MINDSET IS SO IMPORTANT.

When I was really successful I was doing phone sales and my clients had no idea that I was this young tubby brown dude, that worked really well for me. By deepening my voice and speaking with authority I was able to tell CEOs of $20M companies how it was going to be.

Well, you got step 1 down. And that is awareness. You are aware of what you're doing wrong.

You said it yourself, you sometimes forget. And that is exactly the problem. It's all in your head. If you THINK they will not take you serious if they actually see you, then THEY will think you can't be taken seriously.

It's your perception of things that's rubbing off on them.

You said it yourself, on the phone you did great. Because you knew they couldn't see how young you were. You see how important YOUR PERCEPTION is.

They Can't See You - Your sales are incredible
They Can See You - Your sales suffer

The only difference in those 2 things is how YOU view the situation. You have this limiting belief that they won't take you seriously because you look young. And young people don't know anything. That's just some story you come up with in your head. It's not reality. But it's YOUR reality.

And perception is reality.

"Change the way you look at things and the things you look at will change."

AP, others, you've been at this for a while- how did you get your start in the credibility game? Do you think you could charge $20K upfront and $3K/month DOING THE SAME THING YOU'RE DOING if you were in your mid twenties? What would you do differently to sell yourself? What is the angle?

Originally Posted by Magic Mel

If people, know about your businesses/services and you do a damn good job, then you can build credibility. You don't gain awesome credibility right away, my man AP has been in the game for a longtime and he doesn't have to talk about people, people talk about him and they pursue him.

Offer good service, and get referrals.

I don't know why everyone is so caught up on this credibility thing. :confused:

If you've been reading my mindset posts then you know what's coming...it's all in YOUR head!

Now before I tell you why credibility is NOT the most important thing, I want to state that I am not saying that credibility is not important at all. It is. But there is something more important than credibility. So if you are new to this and don't have any credibility then listen up...

BELIEVABILITY is the most important thing. Far more important than credibility.

And don't take this the wrong way, cause I'm not saying to lie or hype things up, but if you are believable than your credibility doesn't matter. They won't even ask about your credibility.

Here is part of a report I wrote, in the section about credibility/believability. Copy and pasted...

Another Dan Kennedy story to get the point across. Years ago Dan did consulting work with (at the time) 1-800 Mutuals…now USAMutuals.com. Which is just a mutual funds company.

They would use direct mail and advertising for lead generation. So people would either get the direct mail or see their advertisements and call a number to claim their free information kit that would then get mailed to them. That kit pre-sold them on using their company for mutual funds, open accounts, manage portfolio’s, etc.

After the people read the information kit they called the 1-800 Mutual office where advisors there would take their orders, open accounts, etc. Now here is the interesting part. The office was full of cubicles that were filled with young adults…most fresh out of college. No previous job experience in the area of mutual funds. No advanced training in this area. As Dan put it “dripping wet behind the ears”.

These were the “investment advisors” for the people calling in and opening accounts.

Dan was at the office just hanging out in the phone room for a day. He said he watched as people called in and opened portfolio accounts that ranged from $20,000-$200,000.

So Dan asked the following question to the head guy at the company, “When people finally get their info kit and then call in and get Jr. here on the phone, what’s Jr.’s answer when he gets asked about his experience and credentials?” His answer was “they don’t ask”. And Dan confirmed it. He said after a day of listening, it was true, they never asked.

The more you think about believability and less about credibility, the better off you will be. Gear everything you do around being believable. Of course it goes without saying that you should be able to back up what you say. Don’t think for a second I’m telling you to hype yourself up if you don’t know what you’re talking about. Because I’m not.

I’m just saying that it doesn’t matter if you are new at this. I should also note that I am not saying credibility doesn’t have its place. If you have credibility, then by all means use it! But if you are new to consulting, until you have credibility, work on your believability."

You see why they were never asked about their credentials?

They used proper marketing to POSITION themselves in a way that no one would ever ask about their credentials. They were so believable that it didn't even occur to people to ask about their background and why they should take financial advice from them.

I personally have a similar story. Few years ago I was selling mortgages. I had no clue about marketing. I just got "warm" leads and was told to dial and smile. Pounded the phone for weeks with nothing to show for it. Then I set out to learn marketing. Came across Dan Kennedy.

Spent hours and hours a day learning everything I could. I started marketing with tearsheets, FSI's, postcards, free recorded messages, website, etc. People went through my marketing funnel before they could even get me on the phone.

Before I did the marketing, people were hanging up on me telling me they weren't interested. Beating me up on fees. It was a nightmare.

Once I started marketing properly, by the time I would talk to them on the phone they were happy as could be and thanking me for calling them back. Hah, just doing my job.

I would then have them come into my office so I could show them exactly what I was going to do to ease their pain. 99% of other loan officers either did everything by phone or went to their house. I made them come to me.

And I charged much higher fees than before and higher than everyone else in the office.

I still remember it like it was yesterday...my first client after I started marketing properly, his exact words after I explained everything I could do and had him sign the papers. He let out a huge sigh of relief, thanked me and said "a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders."

Talk about satisfying. I was just doing my job. But since I did things a little differently, this guy thought I was a hero.

Not to mention I was 23 at the time and even looked younger than that. I could still pass for a 22 year old. But I don't care. And since I don't care, neither does anyone else.

Everyone in the office was far more knowledgeable than I was ABOUT MORTGAGES. But, I was far more knowledgeable about marketing. They were in the business of selling mortgages. I was in the business of marketing that I sell mortgages.

And THAT is what makes all the difference.

SteelDanno · 6th Feb 2010, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by mmmcoffee

What you said at the start, your accomplishments, tell people about it - make it part of your own shock and awe package as AP calls it.

I've seen this mentioned a bit ... and unless I've just forgotten (it is a freakin' long thread) I'm curious if we've explored the shock and awe package in any detail as yet?

If not, lets get some thoughts we can bundle into a Shock and Awe blueprint of sorts that we could use as a guide.

If I remember correctly then one of the bullets for inclusion in a Shock and Awe package might be:

Send potential client your book (that you authored, published and sell on Amazon. The implication being "I wrote a book on the subject, I know my game").

Anyone else with some experience/knowledge in this area care to add?

AP · 6th Feb 2010, 03:10 PM

Comments in Blue.

Originally Posted by Curleyjohn

I'm a little confused.

Should the first meeting be just questionnaire and then a review of the clients current positioning both on and off line.

Most of my meetings with new prospects are referrals, so credibility has already been planted.

I send prospect my "Shock & Awe" package. Testimonials, 2 books I have authored, a few Press Releases, etc...

I then do research on them and their competition. I want to be prepared for the meeting. I want the prospect to feel as though I really do understand his business and can talk the Lingo.

My main purpose is to get the Questionnaire completed as much as possible. Some go one hour, others can go on forever. Sometimes a prospect gets so involved in the questions they ramble on, which is what I'm looking for. Nothing worse than a prospect saying Yes, No, Yes, NO.

You want them to talk and start to get involved in the PROCESS. They will figure out what needs to be done by you asking the questions.

While I am asking questions I will then bring out a report or a graph to support my facts (people love when YOU can back your statements with 3rd party credibility such as Google, NY Times, Wall St Journal, etc...) about their competition or the industry they are in. I may show them a graph about Google online searches etc... just enough to wet their appetite so they are looking forward to the next meeting. That's it. I thank them for taking the time to complete the questionnaire, then I tell them I will go back to my office and work many hours on preparing a plan specific to their business. At that point I will set-up a meeting one week from this exact meeting. If this meeting was Wednesday at 2pm, I'll ask if next Wed at 2pm is fine. 99% say sure.

Or should you have some kind of marketing and profit maximization plan before you get to that first meeting and then share that plan during the first meeting.

NO. I need the questionnaire completed and I want them to "Dream a little" about what may be possible when I come back for the 2nd meeting. Most owners call ME to confirm our 2nd meeting. They'll say, were still on for Wednesday, right?

It was my understanding that we should do the interview, wow them with the knowledge we have for their competition and current positioning and then schedule the second meeting. Yes.

At the second meeting, how in depth should we go when describing our plan of attack. Especially when it comes to ideas for growing and improving the business from the inside?

I give them as much as they can handle. Trust me, no one is going to implement this on their own. They are too busy and don't want to do any of this. You could give them all your vendors, resources, etc... and they still wouldn't do it.

My guess would be to lay all the info on them at the second meeting or possibly the third if you used the second meeting to observe the operating procedures of the company.

I would think being specific and showing exactly how your putting $ to the bottom line is only going to help seal the deal. Exactly.

I'm sure most won't follow up even if they were trying to just get free info.

A few may, but that's why I don't leave any info. I lost a prospect a few months ago. Long story, but the woman CEO just started working at the company, her father retired and she took over. Never worked at the company and knew Nothing about the business. I did my usual presentations, etc... and she never followed up.

At my 2nd meeting when I showed my playbook, she tried to confiscate my Mindmap and other research I had done for the company. I said NO, and she got Ticked off. She said, "how do you expect me to make a decision on a $60,000 a year contract and you won't give me any of the material we discussed? I don't appreciate YOUR sales tactics."

I told her that material belonged to me, I spent many hours putting this together and I would be glad to share it with her once I had an agreement signed and the check cleared.

About 2-3 weeks later the Biaaaaaaaaaatch called. She told me straight up my ideas were Amazing and she wanted to Implement herself. I told her it's much more than just a playbook, it's ongoing changes, Mindset, constant tweaking, etc... She replied, I've been a Corporate Consultant in California for the last 25 years, I know what I'm doing. :rolleyes:

I said to myself, I am so lucky I didn't land this account. Then I told her I had spent over 10 hours working on her business. I told her if she cut me a check for $5,000 it was all hers and I would even give her 2 additional hours of phone consultation, NO hard feelings. The next day a FedEx was at my office and inside was a check for 5k. Biatch!

I waited a few days for the check to clear because I did not trust her. I dropped off the materials personally at her office, she had some loser meet me at the door. She never called for her phone consultation. She had not implemented 90% of the items I suggested (yes, I have been following up) and I know the business has gained nothing as a result.

I made a color copy of the check and hung it on my wall. I should post it up but I don't want to stoop as low as she was. It wasn't the fact I got the money from this witch (she bossed her husband around like you wouldn't believe, OMG) it's the fact that she hasn't implemented my ideas.

Just goes to show ya, even when ya give em your Playbook they still can't cut it. I have $5,000 that proves it.

Am I on track here? Perfect.

leonardpayne · 6th Feb 2010, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by AP

For my 100th post on WF I've decided to give back or pay it forward as they say.

Hopefully this resource guide can help speed up the learning process to help you on your way to success.

If you find this guide useful please hit the Thanks button or post a reply. I have more guides to offer but want to evaluate if members would like to see more.

Thanks,

~AP

P.S. Feel free to add your own comments about Positioning, Perceived Credibility or Marketing. We can all learn together.

I see no link to a resource guide!!

Leonard

AP · 6th Feb 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by leonardpayne

I see no link to a resource guide!!

Leonard

At the Top of Page 22 you'll see my post with (3) Word Docs attached.

Next Tuesday I'll be posting another Word Doc to make your Offline life easier.

That will make (4) to date.

~AP

James Druman · 6th Feb 2010, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by leonardpayne

I see no link to a resource guide!!

Leonard

Woah! Easy, Buddy--all you had to do is ask..lol Just keep reading--it'll pop up again in a couple more posts.

cheers,
James

James Druman · 6th Feb 2010, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by AP

the Biaaaaaaaaaatch called

lol You're killing me, Man.

JustVisiting · 6th Feb 2010, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by AP

About 2-3 weeks later the Biaaaaaaaaaatch called. She told me straight up my ideas were Amazing and she wanted to Implement herself. I told her it's much more than just a playbook, it's ongoing changes, Mindset, constant tweaking, etc... She replied, I've been a Corporate Consultant in California for the last 25 years, I know what I'm doing.

I said to myself, I am so lucky I didn't land this account. Then I told her I had spent over 10 hours working on her business. I told her if she cut me a check for $5,000 it was all hers and I would even give her 2 additional hours of phone consultation, NO hard feelings. The next day a FedEx was at my office and inside was a check for 5k. Biatch!

I waited a few days for the check to clear because I did not trust her. I dropped off the materials personally at her office, she had some loser meet me at the door. She never called for her phone consultation. She had not implemented 90% of the items I suggested (yes, I have been following up) and I know the business has gained nothing as a result.

Guess you're pitching her competitors now? When she sees the results you produce for them...sweet.

Might as well 'twist the knife'

m1online · 6th Feb 2010, 05:16 PM

[QUOTE=Vagabond 007;1719330]

It's all about mindset. If they don't see the value in what you have to offer, ASSUMING you explained it very clearly, then why would you spend another minute of your life trying to convince them otherwise?
....

I don't know why everyone is so caught up on this credibility thing. :confused:

If you've been reading my mindset posts then you know what's coming...it's all in YOUR head!

Now before I tell you why credibility is NOT the most important thing, I want to state that I am not saying that credibility is not important at all. It is. But there is something more important than credibility. So if you are new to this and don't have any credibility then listen up...

BELIEVABILITY is the most important thing. Far more important than credibility.

-----------------

I'm new to the whole IM thing. Long time business owner, serial entrep. etc. still trying to figure out this forum thingy. :rolleyes:

I've been loving this thread. Great attitude, ideas, experience and motivation. Awesome. (I went blind reading the first 20 or so pages last week). Thanks to all the contributors.

The idea re credibility and believability just introduced (I think)... is huge and multi layered.

To be believed, you have have to feel credible and that means believe in yourself first. Then you will be believed to be credible by another.

You must believe that you have the ability to make it happen, find the people and resources to address whatever issue.
You then find yourself credible.
Others will then believe you.

Old sales truth "The first sale you have to make is to yourself. If you don't believe in what you're selling then no one else will."

I'm spending much of my time learning the IM stuff so I believe in my ability to help others with it, first.

Many folks promote the idea of get the customer and figure it out later. I've been there done that but in areas I had lots of expertise but no specific application.

I'm taking too long (by my standards) to believe in me in IM terms, but for me it's part of the process and maybe what holds back many folks...they don't believe they can deliver, so they don't go out to sell themselves or when they do go out to sell they aren't "believable" because they haven't sold themselves on their ability to deliver.

People look for certainty and confidence is palatable and lack thereof also.

I hope that makes sense.

(noticed I doidn't do the quoty thingy right... hehe. I'll learn how to do it another day)

SpyGuy · 6th Feb 2010, 06:41 PM

I need to know...

If any of you create "new" websites for clients.....

Do you register the Website/Domain under "Your Name" or "Their Name" ?

I read something about a web guy holding a client hostage because the domain was in their name and if the client left - they would also leave "without" their website and have to pay a hefty price to keep the website.

At first, this made me think "what a slimeball move". Smart, but slimeball.

On the other hand.... The used car salesman in me says, if the client calls it quits they will have to pay you big $$ to take the website and its properties with them because it is in your name. They are essentialy "Renting" the website from you.

Do you guys "purposely" do this to take advantage of clients to make them "buy-out" the site you created for them, if and when they leave?

LouCyphre · 6th Feb 2010, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by SpyGuy

I need to know...

If any of you create "new" websites for clients.....

Do you register the Website/Domain under "Your Name" or "Their Name" ?

I read something about a web guy holding a client hostage because the domain was in their name and if the client left - they would also leave "without" their website and have to pay a hefty price to keep the website.

At first, this made me think "what a slimeball move". Smart, but slimeball.

On the other hand.... The used car salesman in me says, if the client calls it quits they will have to pay you big $$ to take the website and its properties with them because it is in your name. They are essentialy "Renting" the website from you.

Do you guys "purposely" do this to take advantage of clients to make them "buy-out" the site you created for them, if and when they leave?

I’m sure you could get 10 different responses from 10 different people on this one. To me it all depends on what your ethics are and the type of client you have qualified to do work for.

If you do your client qualification correctly, and you do your part of the agreement, there should really never be a case where you would even need to hold anything hostage for some buyout.

What I personally do is any website that I register/create/etc, is all done with the client’s information. Then I add myself with permissions to access the account. For example, when registering, I add myself as the technical contact. When I setup GA, I set up my account with admin access to it. And so forth. Whenever I do anything for them I then use my account access, not their own that I setup. This is also very crucial for auditing purposes. All of their credentials I just keep on file.

Likewise, in my computer consulting, no client has the server access credentials on their network. I tell them straight up I don’t play with other hands in the cookie jar, and try to guess who did what when it comes time for troubleshooting a problem which ends up wasting their money. Not one has ever complained about that up to now.

When it comes time to part ways, there is a review of anything open. The final amount due is noted and then a transfer of knowledge with that payment. For sites, this transfer is the logon credentials with the site info for each login. For the computer side I also make sure to leave a “hit by bus” book. This book gives enough of a basic overview so that anyone coming in has a basic idea to make sure the client doesn’t just die in the water afterwards.

My opinion is that if a client, maybe he is too medicated or for some other odd reason, doesn’t see any value in the services that I provide any longer, which is his right to do so, then so be it. I just move along to another client, with no hard feelings, because there are plenty out there.

If a client refuses to make some payment, I don’t feel it is our right to hold hostage something which is “theirs”. If something can’t be agreed upon, then the option is taking them to small claims court. At that point showing a judge that you went over what was called for, and even though you could have held hostage certain information, you did not. You held up to your part of the agreement, he failed to do his, and unless he can show something completely against you, I don’t see how you don’t get what is deserved. And you did it in a respectful and professional way.

Set yourself up properly from the start and you drastically reduce your risk of ever dealing with a situation like that at all. Life is too short to harp on the bad clients, and let them get you stressed, when there are so many willing to give you money for a service.

Chris

craigbrown · 6th Feb 2010, 07:49 PM

Epic WF Offline Thread - Posts #1 to #1216 (That's 651 printed out pages folks!) in PDF. All links live, all youtube links playable from within the pdf. 6.17Mb

Download Link:download | ifile.it

SpyGuy · 6th Feb 2010, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by LouCyphre

I’m sure you could get 10 different responses from 10 different people on this one. To me it all depends on what your ethics are and the type of client you have qualified to do work for.

If you do your client qualification correctly, and you do your part of the agreement, there should really never be a case where you would even need to hold anything hostage for some buyout.

What I personally do is any website that I register/create/etc, is all done with the client’s information. Then I add myself with permissions to access the account. For example, when registering, I add myself as the technical contact. When I setup GA, I set up my account with admin access to it. And so forth. Whenever I do anything for them I then use my account access, not their own that I setup. This is also very crucial for auditing purposes. All of their credentials I just keep on file.

Likewise, in my computer consulting, no client has the server access credentials on their network. I tell them straight up I don’t play with other hands in the cookie jar, and try to guess who did what when it comes time for troubleshooting a problem which ends up wasting their money. Not one has ever complained about that up to now.

When it comes time to part ways, there is a review of anything open. The final amount due is noted and then a transfer of knowledge with that payment. For sites, this transfer is the logon credentials with the site info for each login. For the computer side I also make sure to leave a “hit by bus” book. This book gives enough of a basic overview so that anyone coming in has a basic idea to make sure the client doesn’t just die in the water afterwards.

My opinion is that if a client, maybe he is too medicated or for some other odd reason, doesn’t see any value in the services that I provide any longer, which is his right to do so, then so be it. I just move along to another client, with no hard feelings, because there are plenty out there.

If a client refuses to make some payment, I don’t feel it is our right to hold hostage something which is “theirs”. If something can’t be agreed upon, then the option is taking them to small claims court. At that point showing a judge that you went over what was called for, and even though you could have held hostage certain information, you did not. You held up to your part of the agreement, he failed to do his, and unless he can show something completely against you, I don’t see how you don’t get what is deserved. And you did it in a respectful and professional way.

Set yourself up properly from the start and you drastically reduce your risk of ever dealing with a situation like that at all. Life is too short to harp on the bad clients, and let them get you stressed, when there are so many willing to give you money for a service.

Chris

Originally Posted by mmmcoffee

We usually register and manage the domain on behalf of the client when we create a site for them. We let them know it's still their domain, from a managability point of view, it's much easier if you have all your clients domains in a central place for when you're making any hosting changes etc.

If you're purely doing just web sites and have a payment plan in place, managing the domain name and email gives you leverage in ensurig you get paid, people can survive without their website, take away their email, wow does that get action! We've only ever had to do that a couple of time when people get behind on payments and don't respond to getting it sorted.

If a client leaves, we let them transfer the domain elsewhere, some clients that we purely do web sites for in the past have moved their site elsewhere, yet still have us manage their domain name and or email hosting, for a small fee of course.

Personally my ethics get in the way of keeping their domain.

If it's part of the marketing package then we either have them pay for the web site as a separate item, or we let them know it's a month for the next y months from the monthly fee they are paying. That way if they choose to stop, they know they are still liable for finishing the payment of the web site, though never had this happen to us.

If you're generating leads and making them money and the web site is just part of the marketing mix, then they don't go moving it.

The other day I had a client call up and ask for the invoice for the hosting, they know the site will automatically get disabled if they haven't paid, and they know it makes them money. And even though its a couple of months before the existing annual hosting fee expires, they want to make sure there is no potential down time.

I myself would go the ethical route. I dont want to scam anyone. However, Im sure it happens each day.

I think this makes for a decent selling point to gain the clients trust.

if you mention how other marketers scam clients in this way BUT... that you make sure everything is in their name and that when the day comes that we part ways, they will be taken care of - where the competition will leave you hanging.....

mktmkr · 6th Feb 2010, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Vagabond 007

BELIEVABILITY is the most important thing. Far more important than credibility...

Everyone in the office was far more knowledgeable than I was ABOUT MORTGAGES. But, I was far more knowledgeable about marketing. They were in the business of selling mortgages. I was in the business of marketing that I sell mortgages.

And THAT is what makes all of the difference.

Awesome post, Vagabond! So freakin' true.

Having just gotten started with this biz myself, I've been hitting up the local Chambers.

A few weeks back a dentist did a quick presentation. He was very charismatic and I wanted to learn more about him, so right there I looked up his website on my phone. He was all set with opt-in, newsletter, and blog - so LOTS of marketing savvy compared to all other dentist sites I've seen.

I approached him afterwards and told him that I was wanting to move my business into the direction of helping independent health care professionals like dentists and that I'd love to take him to lunch and pick his brain on the industry. He said "absolutely".

Over lunch we talked about the strategies he was using and his take on why most other dentists struggle, the importance of an overall strategy and "know your destination"... absolutely no mention of SEO or any of that stuff. My focus was learning from HIM and listening, not to show off what I knew.

We get back to his office and he's introducing me to his staff as a "marketing expert"! I get back home and send him a thank you email, and he replies to me that he really enjoyed having an energetic conversation with a "real marketing professional" and that I was offering something for which people in his industry are in dire need.

To top it off, he's a HUGE center of influence with another Chamber in our area AND he's part of a mastermind group. Whether I land him as a client doesn't matter... I've started a great relationship with a potential referral source (that borrows HIS credibility).

LouCyphre · 6th Feb 2010, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by SpyGuy

I myself would go the ethical route. I dont want to scam anyone. However, Im sure it happens each day.

I think this makes for a decent selling point to gain the clients trust.

if you mention how other marketers scam clients in this way BUT... that you make sure everything is in their name and that when the day comes that we part ways, they will be taken care of - where the competition will leave you hanging.....

Using your ethics as an additional selling point is exactly right on. It’s an easy additional way of building respect from the client simply by stating how you will treat them in the relationship. Create a set of ethics that you want to hold yourself to and make it available to your client.

Showing them what high level of standards you set yourself too, will speak volumes about the caliber of service you provide will be. It also demonstrates the strong beliefs you have in the quality of your work.

When you explicitly inform them of the level of standards you abide by, not only do you put them at ease, but you also put the nugget into their head that many other people are not abiding by such code. So if they have thoughts of going with someone else, they might think twice about it as they will be worried that many people out there are unethical in their business practices since most everyone else they’ve talked with, never even mentioned it.

Being respectful and ethical with clients will go a long way, and the fees earned from those relationships where both sides are respectful of each other will far outweigh and out-earn the ones that aren’t.

Chris

soniia21 · 6th Feb 2010, 08:46 PM

Fantastic thread, some really helpful information, thanks.

6th Feb 2010, 02:26 AM	#1151
Buildingfutures Sean Sheehan - WF Troll War Room Member Join Date: 2008 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 803 Thanks: 146 Thanked 257 Times in 129 Posts Blog Entries: 2	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: AP, Dexx, and anyone else who cares to answer in this particular situation, What is your opinion on a business who has not been around for six months, or a year? Are these prime clients, or should we pass them up for a business that has been around longer? I ask because the turnover rate of businesses and franchises where I live is outrageous, something new where something was every other month it seems, no one can really stay in business. -Sean
	Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!" Sean's Guide To The Forum Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

6th Feb 2010, 04:26 AM	#1158
Dexx Offline Consultant War Room Member Join Date: 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,918 Thanks: 674 Thanked 664 Times in 334 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: I did a barter this past summer, received a hot air balloon ride for my gf and I in exchange for my Target Marketing Interview / report for the balloon company. So basically a $500 amazing flight in exchange for a one hour interview, unfortunately the company started to get too much on the "how about we give you this instead" type route and I knew it was gonna be a headache. Too bad really, nice people, but cheap clients = nightmare down the road. ~Dexx

6th Feb 2010, 04:57 AM	#1159
reilly3000 Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: 2009 Posts: 45 Thanks: 46 Thanked 44 Times in 21 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: In regards to demanding an uninterrupted meeting, AP I feel this is some of the best advice you've given. I know this the hard way--- I have a good client that I could have done a lot of things for, but ended up just doing a cheap wordpress site. I didn't control the conversation or command respect. Every time we meet I go to him (I have a nice office downtown he's never seen). We'll be talking and he'll take phone calls and let his employees interrupt us. It kills me. Sitting there twiddling my thumbs or trying to look busy on my PC is just embarrassing. It really wastes my time when he's getting work done and I'm sitting idle. I got site done, then he was second guessing my SEO and PPC roadmap and actually started running his own PPC when I was running some for him. I dropped him even though I know I could have brought some a lot of bacon for him... The facts are that there isn't anybody for 100 miles that is better at Wordpress than me (in my humble opinion), I can deliver with SEO, write amazing sales copy, and have been selling offline for years (I was with Xerox before I got out of college, then Canon, Experian, and AT&T). I was consistently the youngest and most top producing sales person wherever I went and have enjoyed lots of award trips and financial perks for doing so (Try bringing in $4.53M with a $2M quota). I turned down 4 clients last month including a 25% equity deal in an established business... I have gotten candidates elected, written custom SMS marketing software, managed over 100 sites, set up e-commerce stores with 1,000s of products, and been to some stellar conferences with the best people in my industry. I know my stuff. And more than that, I have an Army of Warriors to back me up. The problem is- sometimes I forget that. Sometimes I am just a 26 year old "web guy" to these business owners. Sometimes I believe their side of the story. MINDSET IS SO IMPORTANT. When I was really successful I was doing phone sales and my clients had no idea that I was this young tubby brown dude, that worked really well for me. By deepening my voice and speaking with authority I was able to tell CEOs of $20M companies how it was going to be. Now I'm just some kid back in his home town- people have always told me I have the mind of a 50 year old... but if face to face meetings I don't have the presence that some sharp, tall ruggedly handsome 40 something white guy has ( I say white guy because I live in a fairly homogenous region and even though I come from there and have deep roots in the local culture, I look like I'm from somewhere else- anywhere from Mexico, to Africa, to India). And I am overweight... not obese, but I haven't really focused on my appearance. I always felt that was a bit superficial (even though I know that isn't true). The biggest thing though is my age - this guy through at me today that he's been in business for 35 years and he knew how to do marketing. I had just struck up a conversation with him since he seemed not to have a web site and I was buying something from him. He honestly was convinced he knew more than me about marketing even though he was clueless about ANYthing online, writing headlines, dunning letters, etc. Because of my age. I guess I shouldn't feel so bad, there is that 16 year old on here who's got it way worse than me. The bottom line is I have a wife, two kids, plenty of bills, and need to earn some real money. I haven't been charging nearly enough because I have the mentality that I can't call myself a marketing consultant and be taken seriously. So I have been kind doing piecemeal web work, but not charging for my marketing expertise. AP, others, you've been at this for a while- how did you get your start in the credibility game? Do you think you could charge $20K upfront and $3K/month DOING THE SAME THING YOU'RE DOING if you were in your mid twenties? What would you do differently to sell yourself? What is the angle? How can I let people know who they are dealing with without coming across arrogant? Humility has always served me well. But it isn't working for me when the owner of a struggling business won't give me the time of day. I AM working on my first book. I hope that will help my standing, but I have got to start doing the takeaway thing to reinforce my credibility or something. In that scenario, should I have just said, "we can do this another time" and walked? Or is it better to have him feel he owes me something by waiting patiently while he was rude? Jeez, this feels more like therapy than IM talk... I will certainly ask for prospects to clear their schedule if they want to meet with me.

6th Feb 2010, 05:43 AM	#1160
Ron Lafuddy Senior Warrior Member Join Date: 2009 Posts: 1,054 Thanks: 1,169 Thanked 1,077 Times in 621 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: AP, Have you ever taken an equity position in any of the businesses you've worked with? Somewhere you mentioned your "VC" approach, and that got me thinkin'. Seems to be the next logical step from just accepting payments. Put just 10 of those suckers in place and let them run for a while, 5-10 years. Talk about building wealth - - tax free too, until you collect your share! Oh my………. got me drooling on the keyboard here. Lafuddy

6th Feb 2010, 08:06 AM	#1163
Pat Ordenes Graphic designer warrior War Room Member Join Date: 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 421 Thanks: 32 Thanked 57 Times in 42 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: I wish i had seen the advice about the meeting earlier... I had a meeting with a 'big fish' on Thursday, and it was meant to be with the Managing Director of the company. I was on email and phone contact direct with him, yet once the meeting started the story changed... I was first greeted by the PR girl, which I figured it was while he got ready, etc... Then another guy walks in the board room, interrupting my chat with the PR girl, and forcing me to repeat myself... Finally the MD arrives, he pushes to get an 'overall' idea of what I can offer, etc... i push on trying to get through my questions, and its a mess!!! They now expect a quote for a New site with a complex ecommerce solution, e-marketing, tracking systems etc... on Monday I'm going to quote what I'm expected from them, which is NOT low, but I'm afraid my chances of getting the job are severely damaged as a result of the meeting. I literally felt the control of the room being lost... I wonder if there's a way to remedy the situation. Let it be a lesson to all... Be in control!! I SHOULD have left the meeting and asked for a new time JUST with the MD. Lack of experience got the better of me.

6th Feb 2010, 09:01 AM	#1165
vitto Active Warrior Join Date: 2009 Posts: 53 Thanks: 82 Thanked 57 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: reilly3000 Based on what I know now, though I still have much to learn, I would have told him to call you when better time permits. You have to show him that you take your time very seriously, because if you do not respect the one thing you can not get back, he will never respect you. Out of anger (which probably isn't a good thing) I would have sent Direct Mail letters to his competitors. Locked in a deal and I would have done my best to make sure his competition dominated the market place in that niche. And when he ask his competition, "how do you do it?" the competition will bring you out.. But in all seriousness, believe in your self, believe in your work and allow no one to waste your time. confessions of noob.

6th Feb 2010, 10:42 AM	#1169
DogScout Self Unemployed War Room Member Join Date: 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,339 Thanks: 684 Thanked 605 Times in 357 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: I have a client I took when they were in biz just 6 months. It is a barter deal. The client is a doctor and the only of 20+ doctors that has been able to reduce my pain at all. (Car accident left me in constant pain and on 120 MGs of morphine twice a day that little but take the edge off. Regular doctors wanted to up the dose to 200 mgs twice a day, an amount about a hair from overdose levels. Frankly, what I was on would kill some people. They refused a withdrawal protocol as it was explained withdrawing from that much of a dose has a 50/50 death rate. I ended up designing my own withdrawal protocol and found a doctor that would prescribe what I wanted. Found a Naturapath and had IV amino acid drips daily and supplements I researched and wanted from him. Got off the morphine in 10 days with no side effects but a bit of irritability and night sweats. Still on 80 mgs of hydrocodone and 20 mgs of valium a day, but that is a tenth of what I was on.. I would rather put up with some pain than take some of the stuff that is recommended by the mainstream medical community. If I was willing to take the morphine, at the reduced pain levels I have (thanks to the doc) I would probably feel no pain, but unwilling to become an addict. I take less Hydrocodone than prescribed and put up with more pain instead. Both pain and pain meds cause a lack of focus, so it is 72 of one and ½ a gross of another. I also pick a day a week and take nothing, stay in bed and suffer thru the pain. When Katrina went thru New Orleans, an awful lot of pain patients suffered painful deaths when they couldn't get their meds. That will not happen to me. If I stopped today, I'd be in a lot of pain, but I wouldn't die as I am careful to stay as un-addicted as possible. Anyway, I barter with him. retail, I get an average of a couple grand a month in services from him. Believe me, I need as much as I can get from a person that knows their stuff. So while he is a new business, I am part of the reason he is still around, and that is based on what I did before learning a lot more from this thread. (He has some competitors within a block that spend 30k+ in adwords alone!) He was no idea what good things are headed his way. I also turned him on the the local GKIC people, trademarking his protocol, and having a book ghost written for him. I have spent, time wise, over 70% of the time with his biz doing off-line ad stuff with him. Having him succeed is more important than how he succeeds. "For every dollar given to me, I return 2-20 times the value of that dollar. I become 'unstoppable'" ~Frank Kern YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.
	Otis's Blog (Own The Internet, Silly)Paint Shop Tubes - Free images - Free Graphics - Free Photos - 3D - Poser Tubes - Scrap Kits

6th Feb 2010, 10:49 AM	#1170
jacquic HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: 2010 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 322 Thanks: 267 Thanked 121 Times in 75 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: Can anyone recommend a writer do scripts for a) selling seats to workshops (business), and b) so I can give a script to a business owner for their staff to use when people phone through? Thanks Jacqui

6th Feb 2010, 11:11 AM	#1175
TimCastleman Gunslinger War Room Member Join Date: 2008 Posts: 1,715 Thanks: 185 Thanked 880 Times in 331 Posts Blog Entries: 34	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: Wow this thing won't die. I laugh when I see some of the advice being thrown around here. Things like be in control, assert your power, etc. Sounds more like a wrestling match than you trying to help offline companies. Understand that there are stupid people and businesses everywhere. Some will try to get your information for free, some won't hire you even if it is in their best interest. Also understand that there is more business than you could ever handle. Seriously, I can't work with them all - even if I wanted to. A meeting not going well - on to the next one. A customer say no thanks - on to the next one. A guy being a jerk and not answering your questions - you get the idea. You're there to help them - if they can't see it then sucks to be them. Tim
	Effortless Outsourcing - 175 Proven Outsourcers Ready To Work For You Today

6th Feb 2010, 11:37 AM	#1176
Bayo BAYO aka Mr B War Room Member Join Date: 2007 Location: Chicago, London and Hawaii Posts: 1,300 Thanks: 237 Thanked 417 Times in 251 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: Tim: I laugh when I see some of the advice being thrown around here. Things like be in control, assert your power, etc. Sounds more like a wrestling match than you trying to help offline companies. *It's like when I see people use the highly combatant terms "Crush!, Kill!!, Destroy! etc* Tim: Understand that there are stupid people and businesses everywhere. Some will try to get your information for free, some won't hire you even if it is in their best interest. *Surely people should know that this is the norm in internet marketing - So if anyone is really surprised at local businesses behaving this way ... it's time to wake up and taste the coffee.* Good points Tim.
	FINALLY ACHIEVE YOUR PROFESSIONAL OR PERSONAL GOALS IN THE NEXT 90 DAYS ATTENTION Introverted Coaches, Consultants & Experts: Schedule a FREE 10-Minute Fast Growth Clarity Call with Bayo Get Clear About What You Need to Do to Stop Spinning Your Wheels and Start Making Progress

6th Feb 2010, 01:02 PM	#1179
Rabs1979 Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 39 Thanks: 40 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: Just read this on WebProNews today. I know AP & Vagabond have shown us how to move beyond just offering SEO / IM services, but this is just proof why SEO services need to be maintained thus justifying an ongoing monthly maintenance fee (the whole article references a statement by Matt Cutts himself): "Link velocity refers to the speed at which new links to a webpage are formed, and by this term we may gain some new and vital insight. Historically, great bursts of new links to a specific page has been considered a red flag, the quickest way to identify a spammer trying to manipulate the results by creating the appearance of user trust. This led to Google's famous assaults on link farms and paid link directories. But the Web has changed, become more of a live Web than a static document Web. We have the advent of social bookmarking, embedded videos, links, buttons, and badges, social networks, real-time networks like Twitter and Friendfeed. Certainly the age of a website is still an indication of success and trustworthiness, but in an environment of live, real time updating, the age of a link as well as the slowing velocity of incoming links may be indicators of stale content in a world that values freshness." Google Doesn't Care if You USED to Get Links \| WebProNews

6th Feb 2010, 01:48 PM	#1180
Curleyjohn Profit Margin Marketing Join Date: 2009 Location: Glass City Posts: 121 Thanks: 119 Thanked 48 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: I'm a little confused. Should the first meeting be just questionnaire and then a review of the clients current positioning both on and off line. Or should you have some kind of marketing and profit maximization plan before you get to that first meeting and then share that plan during the first meeting. It was my understanding that we should do the interview, wow them with the knowledge we have for their competition and current positioning and then schedule the second meeting. At the second meeting, how in depth should we go when describing our plan of attack. Especially when it comes to ideas for growing and improving the business from the inside? My guess would be to lay all the info on them at the second meeting or possibly the third if you used the second meeting to observe the operating procedures of the company. I would think being specific and showing exactly how your putting $ to the bottom line is only going to help seal the deal. I'm sure most won't follow up even if they were trying to just get free info. Am I on track here?
	Toledo Business Development Coach- Toledo Internet Marketing

6th Feb 2010, 02:02 PM	#1181
Spark HyperActive Warrior Join Date: 2007 Location: In a Small Little Island Posts: 393 Thanks: 27 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: I believe that's different method to close the sales. But i believe 1st meeting is to get your presentation first then questionnaire. If possible, show him the info of their competitors. Give them some info will do. Mention that during 2nd meeting, plans will be out together with competitors info. Give more reasons why they need these to be use in their plans. And more reason to see us. This is how i think. I am not sure how other thinks. Perhaps warriors can their thoughts on this as well.
	People who risks change the world

6th Feb 2010, 05:16 PM	#1193
m1online Active Warrior Join Date: 2009 Posts: 45 Thanks: 36 Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: [QUOTE=Vagabond 007;1719330] It's all about mindset. If they don't see the value in what you have to offer, ASSUMING you explained it very clearly, then why would you spend another minute of your life trying to convince them otherwise? .... I don't know why everyone is so caught up on this credibility thing. :confused: If you've been reading my mindset posts then you know what's coming...it's all in YOUR head! Now before I tell you why credibility is NOT the most important thing, I want to state that I am not saying that credibility is not important at all. It is. But there is something more important than credibility. So if you are new to this and don't have any credibility then listen up... BELIEVABILITY is the most important thing. Far more important than credibility. ----------------- I'm new to the whole IM thing. Long time business owner, serial entrep. etc. still trying to figure out this forum thingy. :rolleyes: I've been loving this thread. Great attitude, ideas, experience and motivation. Awesome. (I went blind reading the first 20 or so pages last week). Thanks to all the contributors. The idea re credibility and believability just introduced (I think)... is huge and multi layered. To be believed, you have have to feel credible and that means believe in yourself first. Then you will be believed to be credible by another. You must believe that you have the ability to make it happen, find the people and resources to address whatever issue. You then find yourself credible. Others will then believe you. Old sales truth "The first sale you have to make is to yourself. If you don't believe in what you're selling then no one else will." I'm spending much of my time learning the IM stuff so I believe in my ability to help others with it, first. Many folks promote the idea of get the customer and figure it out later. I've been there done that but in areas I had lots of expertise but no specific application. I'm taking too long (by my standards) to believe in me in IM terms, but for me it's part of the process and maybe what holds back many folks...they don't believe they can deliver, so they don't go out to sell themselves or when they do go out to sell they aren't "believable" because they haven't sold themselves on their ability to deliver. People look for certainty and confidence is palatable and lack thereof also. I hope that makes sense. (noticed I doidn't do the quoty thingy right... hehe. I'll learn how to do it another day)

6th Feb 2010, 06:41 PM	#1194
SpyGuy "aka" Andrew Douglas War Room Member Join Date: 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 97 Thanks: 78 Thanked 35 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: I need to know... If any of you create "new" websites for clients..... Do you register the Website/Domain under "Your Name" or "Their Name" ? I read something about a web guy holding a client hostage because the domain was in their name and if the client left - they would also leave "without" their website and have to pay a hefty price to keep the website. At first, this made me think "what a slimeball move". Smart, but slimeball. On the other hand.... The used car salesman in me says, if the client calls it quits they will have to pay you big $$ to take the website and its properties with them because it is in your name. They are essentialy "Renting" the website from you. Do you guys "purposely" do this to take advantage of clients to make them "buy-out" the site you created for them, if and when they leave?

6th Feb 2010, 07:49 PM	#1196
craigbrown Active Warrior Join Date: 2010 Posts: 70 Thanks: 26 Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: Epic WF Offline Thread - Posts #1 to #1216 (That's 651 printed out pages folks!) in PDF. All links live, all youtube links playable from within the pdf. 6.17Mb Download Link:download \| ifile.it

6th Feb 2010, 08:46 PM	#1200
soniia21 Sonia Panesar War Room Member Join Date: 2008 Location: UK Posts: 85 Thanks: 5 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Offline Marketers: What services are you offering for monthly fees? Share on: Fantastic thread, some really helpful information, thanks.