[Dexx]

EDIT: Post Updated to Reflect the Massive Content Now in this Thread.
Thank you to everyone (Especially AP) for your contributions to make this an excellent resource!

The Ultimate Free Resource Collection of Strategies, Methods, and Tactics to Making a Consistently Profitable Income Providing Marketing Services to Local Businesses!

Get Ready to Discover the Inner Workings of Actual Consulting Business Models That WILL Get Your Business Started Generating Leads, Closing Sales, and Becoming Profitable Faster Than You Ever Thought Possible!

ATTENTION: Before posting any new questions, make sure to read through the ENTIRE thread as it most likely HAS been answered multiple times.

Please don't be offended if you ask a question and get ignored because you decided to not take the time to do this.

Thanks!

Great Posts To Get Started With:

Originally Posted by AP

Let's work through a real life example.

So many members here seem to get caught up in the "Are my fees justifiable mentality" so I need to respond.

Instead of giving the answers I would like everyone to go into Deep thought and exchange places with the Business owner.

You now own his business and some Hotshot Internet Marketer walks through his doors to market his business.

This will be the scenario: I get a lot of these.

Service type (repeat biz) business: Dentist, Carpet cleaner, Pest Control, Plumber, HVAC, etc... Mom & Pop type biz

Gross Sales: 1.2 Million in 2008, decreased to 1.1 Million in 2009, sales have Flat-lined. Incorporated for over 5+ years. Has 4 employees, spouse works part-time helping out.

• Client has a nice website, ranked page 3 Google. His domain listed Page 3 Google is his entire Internet presence.

• Advertising/Marketing budget per year is roughly 5% of sales $50,000

• Spends 80% of his advertising budget ($40,000 year) on Yellow Pages

• The balance of 20% ($10,000) is spent on Spray & Pray type marketing

• Has a database (Names & Addresses only) of 2,000 past & current customers

• Gross Profit margins are 25%

Now you make this statement:


Mr Business owner, "If I could show you a way to cut the Fat & Waste from your marketing budget and at the same time Increase your sales by 30%, would you be interested?"

Show me how you could justify ME giving YOU a $4,997 set-up fee plus $1,497 per month (starting in 30 days) 12 month agreement. Total price is $23,000.

I want YOU to show me what you could do to "Cut the Fat & Waste in my Advertising budget and Increase my sales.

In addition, I want to see ALL the Benefits to your plan even if I just Break even with your fees vs my increased profits and the end of 12 months.

End
************************************************** ***

I would like to see all thoughts. There shouldn't be any criticism from anyone, we are all here to learn.

I am willing to bet that I have (2) answers that no one will come up with. I've picked my brains for years justifying my prices to clients.

Let the games begin.

~AP

P.S. If you need more info let me know, but I'm going to be very conservative in my replies.

Edit (Jan 22, 4:30 EST): I implemented the Exact case for a client back in Oct 2009. The fee structure was a little different. $20,000 paid over a 6 month period. A Minimum of $997 to $1,497 dependent upon the services the client wanted at that time for continuing consulting. I can tell everyone the client is Extremely happy with the results in only 3 months. He has given me (3) referrals since we met. I will give details when all is finished.

BTW, the client is one of the above categories.

Originally Posted by AP

How to Position Yourself
-CREDIBILITY-

From Wikipedia:

Credibility refers to the objective and subjective components of the believability of a source or message.

Traditionally, credibility has two key components: trustworthiness and expertise, which both have objective and subjective components. Trustworthiness is a based more on subjective factors, but can include objective measurements such as established reliability.

Expertise can be similarly subjectively perceived, but also includes relatively objective characteristics of the source or message (e.g., credentials, certification or information quality).

Secondary components of credibility include source dynamism (charisma) and physical attractiveness
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll list some of the ways I develop MY credibility BEFORE I introduce myself to a Prospect (not yet a client).

The #1 method is to be a book Author (I have 2 books that are linked to Barnes & Noble and Amazon). Instant Credibility, I am the Authority figure immediately. Clients will not debate you. I jokingly say "I wrote a few books on this subject, just Google Me or go to B&N, Amazon, etc..."

There is currently a WSO on WF right now: "The Amazon System-How to Write 1 Book per day" You're a fool not to buy it. It can make you Millions over your career. Seriously. Try getting a check for $25,000 to $100,000+ from a client withOUT being an Author.

You're losing so much money if you don't have a book. Not only do you lose money, but the Sale is 10x harder without a book. I have NOTHING to do with this WSO. I did buy it because I want to create another quick (11) books so I can say I've written over a dozen books.

When I am referred to a prospect I send my "Shock & Awe" package with my 2 books before we talk.

Radio Show: Go to >>> Talk Radio Podcast - Blog Talk Radio and record a radio show. Have it Digitally posted to your webisite. FREE.

So far you are an Author and have appeared on a Radio program.
Less than $50 and a little labor.

Website:

• Use FedEx and UPS logos (These companies spend Millions to market themselves. Use their credibility to rub off on you.)
• USPS logo
• Local phone number, Toll-Free if marketing out of your area.
• Credit Card logos (methods of payments accepted) in the prospects mind you have been Approved by 3rd party vendors who have spent Millions developing their credibility and they have Approved YOU.
• BBB logo (if you can afford)
• Local Chamber of Commerce logo (become a member, even thought I despise them)
• Offer some type of powerful "Guarantee" make it a logo
• Have PayPal and Google logo checkouts
• Post your Hours of Operation
• As seen on Google, Yahoo!, MSN, Bing, etc...
• Any Awards you have earned. Can be used even if it does not have anything to do with your work. Charity support, etc...
• A picture of yourself (even better if you have a puppy next to you)
• Press Releases: Electronic, Newsprint, etc...
• Any Association you belong to
• Affinity groups
• Testimonials: Splash these all over your site. Do NOT have a separate page.
• Favorite Charity logo
• Favorite Books you recommend
• Celebrity Endorsements if you can get it.
• Pics with Celebrities. I have pictures with Dan Kennedy, Perry Marshall, Jay Abraham, Tom Hopkins, and many others on my site, shaking their hand or standing side by side.
• Pics with "Centers of Influence": Doctors, Nurses, Police, Fire, EMT, School teacher,
• Contact page: Picture of your office or building. Google Map, Fax #
• Link to Secretary of States office to YOUR Business Listing
• Create a video of YOU speaking for a few minutes.
• Audio with a Static picture will also work

That's it for today. I'm sure I'll think of more.


This information is Worthless unless you IMPLEMENT.

Hope this helps.

~AP

Originally Posted by AP

Dexx, feel free to share.

I see a lot of you seem hung up on my Agreement (actually a contract, but I use the word agreement).

So, here it is. The one I use on a weekly basis. Modify for your use.

This agreement cost me several thousand dollars in legal fees over the last few years modifying it.

This agreement was the 1st time I collected upfront money over a period of time.

Client paid $20,000 over a 6 month period and $1,997 month continuing. Clients monthly revenue went up over 50% in 60 days. He's very happy with my services.

My video creation is strictly for SERP's, quick videos for Google Maps, etc...

Simple blog.

Customized Twitter page $20.

Anyone here could have done what I did except maybe rewrite Yellow Page ads. This is a special skillset.

I would appreciate any feedback in regards to this agreement. Is it more or less than what you were expecting?

Thanks

Click Here for AP's Marketing Agreement Document

Originally Posted by AP

Please don't try and do what I do. I have 25+ years in the business world.

I don't want to confuse anyone nor stop them from advancing.

Use whatever talents you have TODAY.

• Create a Google/Yahoo! Local Map listing (FREE)
• Get your client listed in the Vertical Directories (FREE)
• Set up AWeber, write a few auto-responders (Client pays)
• Now place a Lightbox or email capture on their website (FREE)
• OnPage SEO (Title tag, Meta tag cleanup will suffice, FREE)
• Free Press Releases (scribble something and post it up, FREE)
• Free Blog
• Free Twitter account
• Write some Free Atricles and post to Ezine (FREE)
• Have the client call his Merchant account and Print email capture on every receipt. Customer can get "Preferred Offerings" Great for any Restaurant and Retail stores (FREE)

Do you realize doing the above will SUBSTANTIALLY increase their sales to the tune of at least 10-20% (Minimum) if worked properly.

These are LOCAL co's, do NOT confuse with National SEO marketing products, info products, etc...

A small company doing $40,000 month/500k year could increase sales in 12 months to $50,000 month/600k doing very simple marketing.

I think that maybe many of you don't realize the Power of Google Maps, Onpage SEO, and AWeber.

I could get a setup fee of $997 and $297 month for the above package in my Sleep. I currently get $5,000 to $10,000 setup and $997 monthly for doing the above EXACT steps. Don't forget I TARGET the right businesses. But a small restaurant/retail shop etc... can afford $997/$297 all day.

They can't afford NOT to.

If you land One account every (2) weeks, 26 over the next year, you will have earned approx $26,000 in set-up fees and a monthly renewal in month 13 of $7,722 or $92,664 year. Not bad for doing little work. God forbid these bus owners give you more work, referrals, etc... then you'll have to hire a good tax accountant and avoid Obama taking it away ;-)

It's that easy, once the Client understands the True power.

You need to believe it first.

~AP

P.S. I dare anyone to debate me that a business can't increase their sales by 10% using an Auto-responder. No website, no onpage seo, no google map, etc... Just an auto-responder.

Originally Posted by Vagabond 007

I forgot to add this to my long post above.

"The need to make whatever they buy free."

Everything needs to pay for itself. The amount you charge is largely determined by what their transaction size is and how you make the argument that they are going to make the money back.

Some examples...

New windows pay for themselves after X months because of the savings in your energy costs.

New pots and pans will pay for themselves because now you can cook at home instead of eating out 3-4 times a week.

Etc.

In our case, like I have (and others) mentioned before, if you you charge them $25,000 a year but yet you make them $100,000 you are essentially free. It didn't cost them anything.

There is even the argument that it would cost them money if they DIDN'T hire you.

The old "you can't afford not to do this".

So make what you're selling "free". Make your fees self funding. SHOW THEM how in X amount of months they will make X amount of dollars so it's actually not costing them anything to hire you.

Originally Posted by DogScout

Here is a PDF of the 1st 10 pages of this thread for future reference.

www.psptubedepot.com/images/Offline-Marketers1-10.pdf

Get it now, just got a dedicated server and am going to move everything over to it during the next week or two. Ill put it back up, but it will be down a day or two while I move this site. (Almost did a home server... then I'd be able to use a SAC firewall and I'd have no hacking worries, just too much other junk that goes with it. But if I get hacked once... Lol.)

********************************
The Original Post That Started The Thread:
*********************************

Hey All,

I'm having great success with offline clients in closing sales, but all my packages I offer are more "one off" SEO stuff with no real monthly fees.

The only service I have right now that I charge a monthly fee is providing an autoresponder service to collect their leads and follow-up automatically with a pre-determined amount of follow-up emails.

I do provide a video marketing package, etc.

Does anyone have ideas (or know of a report/guide) with pratical ideas for offering continuity services such as monthly video creation/promotion etc?

Also, I know many people are charging for monthly SEO/backlinking services to get high rankings on Google...I'm trying to wrap my head around how this works long term...

I mean most of the local business terms shouldnt be THAT hard to rank for, so I'd assuming getting ranked for "[town] eye doctor" shouldnt take more than a couple month of decent backlinks...so how do you continue to charge once a 1st page ranking is reached?

Do you just begin on a new keyword? etc.?

Seems like most SEO companies would want to provide minimal search engine ranking increases each month to prolong the amount of time they can charge for backlinking services? (which would be very unethical...no?)

Thoughts?

[netkid]

Hey Dexx,

I saw you here before....congratulations on scoring some offline customers. I am currently charging monthly fees from $250 to $500 per month to make posts, making comments on other blogs, once a month go to their office to make a simple video and posting that, register free Google local business listings, posting additional business reviews to Google local business listings to keep top rankings, and ongoing training of teaching my customer how to make their own posting in the WP blog I set up for them. Nothing complicated, but enough to show I am a value added business for their online presence. I have not upsold the opt-in list generation system yet....that is my eventual goal of upsell.

You can see that I am not emphasizing SEO and "1st on Google" systems. I never promise first page on Google, other than explaining all the things I am doing collectively to help them rank and get visitors.

That's my current "package" and it seems to keep them happy. I know what you mean about trying to figure out what you need to do each and every month to secure ongoing revenues. The above list is not too much, when I get to "critical mass," I can simply start to outsource these duties.

I have 12 recurring charge customers and growing. So, you can roughly figure I am making over $3,000 per month so far. I started this in March of this year. I am also pounding the pavement and have 7 proposals out so far and may soon land an $1800.00 per month client. I will keep you posted.

Keep an open mind....there is no particular rule to this offline thing!!

Hope that helps!

Bruce

[AP]

My average client pays me a $10,000 set-up fee and $1,497 per month. Minimum contract is 12 months. Approx $30,000 first year.

I do a lot of "Infrastructure" work first. Most here would probably not like it.

I develop a comprehensive marketing plan. USP, train sales staff, train secretaries to answer incoming calls, write copy for Yellow Pages, direct mail, set up AWeber, autoresponders, build new site/blog or update their current site, Animoto video marketing, Google Local, Vertical Directories, Press Releases, 1 on 1 coaching, group teleseminars, SEO, etc...

My best client pays me over $10,000 per month, set-up fee was $25,000.

My smallest client paid me $3,000 upfront and $497 per month.

You don't need many clients at $1,500 to make a decent living.

It's a lot easier than most people think it is.

[Sissy76]

Well done, that's a fantastic and comprehensive service. I'm beginning something similar myself.

Cheers,
Sissy

[MRomeo09]

When I used to do SEO like that, I pretty much charged a $99/mo maintenance fee. That pretty much insured that I wouldn't take another client in that particular niche. I've had clients charging them $99/mo for over 4 years now. They pretty much use it as a consulting fee, I send them an email once a month letting them know how their web sites are ranking, and occasionally I put some new content on their sites.

But there are plenty of alternatives, that you can charge recurring revenue for.
1. Autoresponder content and maintenance.
2. PPC management
3. Fresh content, link building.
4. Exclusivity contracts

I'm sure you can think of others.

[Dexx]

Originally Posted by AP

My average client pays me a $10,000 set-up fee and $1,497 per month. Minimum contract is 12 months. Approx $30,000 first year.

...

My best client pays me over $10,000 per month, set-up fee was $25,000.

My smallest client paid me $3,000 upfront and $497 per month.

Are these prretty big fish companies? I would assume most Mom+Pop shops couldnt afford that?

[AP]

Originally Posted by Dexx

Are these pretty big fish companies? I would assume most Mom+Pop shops couldnt afford that?

They are family owned. Sales range from 1- 7 Million year.

I just signed a 1M in gross sales to a $30,000 year contract.

The 7M company is the one I'm getting over 10k month.

I know going in what I can do for a company. I have a general idea what % I can increase their sales in year one.

I'll give you an example how screwed up companies are. I signed a 2M per year company for $55,000 year one, $3,497 thereafter per month. The 1st thing I had them do was ANSWER their phones with a REAL person instead of going straight to Voice-mail. Their sales immediately jumped 1M dollars. That's right, I knew before we met what their Achilles heal was.

I can easily take this company to 4 million in sales without doing any real work. I am seriously considering do away with Fee based services and only pursuing deals where I receive a % of the increase in sales.

I don't work with Public companies, Franchisees, etc...

All privately held, most are doing 1 to 5M per year in gross sales.

[Mr. Enthusiastic]

Thanks for asking, Dexx, I am getting into offline consulting and I had the same question about how to follow up an initial sale with monthly maintenance income.

Thanks to those who answered with $100 to $10,000 monthly examples. This offline world surely has something for everyone.

Chris

[JEL0221]

I'm a futures and options broker and my company(before I came on) tried hiring someone to get a good ranking on google and did not work.

We currently rank page 4 most of the "popular" terms(commodities broker, futures broker, etc.) with each link ahead of us being another futures broker company website.

I'm a little upset because if I was already here I knew I would have been able to get my boss to consider hiring a fellow warrior, but now he seems pretty discouraged about hiring someone else(I think whoever he hired before just was not good at it!)

Well, what I am getting at is...would it be worth trying to get him to do this again with such a saturated market?

Cheeerrrrsssss

[Mr. Enthusiastic]

Originally Posted by JEL0221

I'm a little upset because if I was already here I knew I would have been able to get my boss to consider hiring a fellow warrior, but now he seems pretty discouraged about hiring someone else(I think whoever he hired before just was not good at it!)

How about this:

Hey boss, y'know that Google placement thing the 4 guys failed at? How much would that be worth to the company to get us up higher in the rankings? How much did we lose with those losers? I'm kinda interested in this internet thing, how about if I put in some of my own time on it, and I can get x results I get a $y bonus [% of what he paid the losers, % of the value to the company]... I'll do this on my own time and it won't take anything away from my existing job. Ya up for that?

Chicago commodities broker, you oughta have the chutzpah to pull this off.

[JEL0221]

Originally Posted by Mr. Enthusiastic

How about this:

Hey boss, y'know that Google placement thing the 4 guys failed at? How much would that be worth to the company to get us up higher in the rankings? How much did we lose with those losers? I'm kinda interested in this internet thing, how about if I put in some of my own time on it, and I can get x results I get a bonus [% of what he paid the losers, % of the value to the company]... I'll do this on my own time and it won't take anything away from my existing job. Ya up for that?

Chicago commodities broker, you oughta have the chutzpah to pull this off.

lol I couldn't stop laughing at that last line

I am still relatively new with IM, I have been just promoting my own blog to get prospects/build a list so I want to convince him to outsource this to someone else(have not had much success in google rankings).

[Mountainmotorman]

Here it is! Offline is simple to succeed at. If you cannot set prices because, you are not sure they would go for it. Or if you think it is to high. GET OUT NOW! Your not a business owner and your not in this to make money for YOUR BRAINS and your know how! I give numbers out that would make you sick. These businesses want the TOP and they know it is worth a lot. But, if you cannot explain it correctly and you cannot make them understand that there will be an increase in business and they have to ramp up for that AS WELL!!!!

Be smart..... Do your BUSINESS homework before you get into something that will bite you in the butt later!!!!!! If you want to learn the business side, I can help you. But, you need to want to help yourself! Keep that in mind...

Good luck warriors!

[ppbiz]

Hey Dexx,

Congrats on landing some offline clients.

My average fee is $700 (my lowest is $475 and my highest $1500 per month) I also charge an initial fee which is usually in the $4000-$5000 range.

Monthly services usually consist of some or all of the following:

Video Marketing
Article marketing
Blog Maintenance
Forum posting/social bookmarking
Press release writing & submission
monthly newsletter
Link building

In answer to your question about what happens when they hit #1.... We solidify and maintain the position and target the next key phrase.

I also provide consulting around offline direct response marketing, referral programs, USP develepment etc- however these will all be treated as a seperate project and they are quoted as such.

I hope this helps and good luck with everything.

Rhiannon

[Derek Allen]

What a great thread. I aiming to tackle some offline stuff for 2010.

[Abiel Jiqna]

Originally Posted by Mountainmotorman

Here it is! Offline is simple to succeed at. If you cannot set prices because, you are not sure they would go for it. Or if you think it is to high. GET OUT NOW! Your not a business owner and your not in this to make money for YOUR BRAINS and your know how! I give numbers out that would make you sick. These businesses want the TOP and they know it is worth a lot. But, if you cannot explain it correctly and you cannot make them understand that there will be an increase in business and they have to ramp up for that AS WELL!!!!

Be smart..... Do your BUSINESS homework before you get into something that will bite you in the butt later!!!!!! If you want to learn the business side, I can help you. But, you need to want to help yourself! Keep that in mind...

Good luck warriors!

I believe there is much money to be made offline but, what if english is youre tird language and you have nothing to show for.

How do you approach these companys and what for companies do you look for.
What is the best way to search for companys like this.

Can someone outsource contacting these companies commission based if yes how?? Even if you speak very good English and are good in closing i think outsourcing it all parts in youre businiss is the best right.

I know the SEO part can be outsources.

How does a beginner looks like an Expert.

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by AP

They are family owned. Sales range from 1- 7 Million year.

I just signed a 1M in gross sales to a $30,000 year contract.

Are they in a high margin business? Or is your pitch just that damn good?

Reason I ask is that 10% margin on 1M is $100,000. $30,000/year is 30% of their profits. You must make a pretty convincing case that you can without a doubt increase revenues. Value based selling I assume. It's a powerful thing. Nice work.

[AP]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Are they in a high margin business? Or is your pitch just that damn good?

Reason I ask is that 10% margin on 1M is $100,000. $30,000/year is 30% of their profits. You must make a pretty convincing case that you can without a doubt increase revenues. Value based selling I assume. It's a powerful thing. Nice work.

I ONLY work with HIGH margin businesses. High margin businesses are ideal for the offline world.

One of my clients is a Cosmetic Surgeon. I advertise for Boob jobs, $4,000 per boob. Doctors cost is $1,000 per boob. We found the LTV (Lifetime Value) of a boob job is $20,000+

After a woman has a boob job, she normally gets a Tummy tuck. After the tummy tuck, she then get's a face-lift followed by wrinkled neck surgery.

If I get him 1 boob job per month he makes money.

The more boobs he gets the better I look.

[Pat Ordenes]

"The more boobs he gets the better I look"
That's gotta go on a tshirt or something...

[MichaelHiles]

To answer Dexx's original question... I do more strategic level consulting work that encompasses the business operation as well.

I start by looking at what they're doing with all the leads and traffic before we generate any more at all.

It's sort of silly to drive traffic to a website if 1/2 the leads generated get dropped somewhere in the nurturing process.

So we do a lot of CRM implementations and training with CRM solutions, and then build out from there. Right now, I am doing $50K a month is just CRM consulting revenue alone.

Once the CRM situation is set, then we create comprehensive campaigns that involve a multi-faceted approach to driving leads into the system. We've done a lot of Facebook PPC this year on behalf of clients as part of this. We still do a lot of direct mail as follow-up as well.

Most recently, we've been developing business video and audio "podcasting" blogging for several businesses. This has actually taken on sort of a life of its own unexpectedly.

[Vagabond 007]

Originally Posted by AP

I ONLY work with HIGH margin businesses. High margin businesses are ideal for the offline world.

How do you generate business? If it's mostly referrals now, how DID you generate business when you first started?

Direct mail? Networking? Something else?

[Bayo]

Some examples from my most 'basic' service offerings:

4 autoresponders = $250-$300 depending on what I can get
1 Video for distribution via TM = $100
1 special report a month branded and based on their business = Minimum $100
1 special report +1 audio version of the report (I have my in house guy) = $199
Business planning session / monthly coaching once a month = $500
On page SEO = $250

I make every attempt to get continuity and partnership going so that I'm able to draw between $497-$997 per client (this is the 'magical' price range I've found and target is 1,000 clients only on the books at any time.

Currently I don't do any monthly lower than $250 and they are all signed up for 3 months at a time to get that rate. I have 50 clients on that entry level program. The good thing is that it's easy to get them to upgrade after the 3 months based on results achieved. The next program is a 6 month lock in at the next price point.

I create ALL my information products from scratch and no 2 products are the same, even in the same niche and that helps tremendously.

Just a selection and as I say, the most basic packages available. There are some other really creative methods for acquiring offline clients i.e. leads that I use that is an hybrid of 2 services offered by 2 separate organizations with a twist.

That is where I actually place a lot of my focus because without leads you don't have anyone to follow up with.

Without prospects, there's nothing to convert.

With nothing to convert you've got no one to retain or leverage.

Without that ... you don't have a business!

Hope that helps and have a great day!

[Dexx]

Originally Posted by Bayo

Some examples from my most 'basic' service offerings:

4 autoresponders = $250-$300 depending on what I can get
1 Video for distribution via TM = $100
1 special report a month branded and based on their business = Minimum $100
1 special report +1 audio version of the report (I have my in house guy) = $199
Business planning session / monthly coaching once a month = $500
On page SEO = $250

Thanks for the reply Bayo, just to clarify, is that 4 "email replies" in an autoresponder for $250-$300 per month?

Do you also provide sign-up and clickthrough reports to the clients?

What about writing the copy for the emails if they don't quite know what to write?

Is that all included?

[Dexx]

Originally Posted by AP

They are family owned. Sales range from 1- 7 Million year.

I just signed a 1M in gross sales to a $30,000 year contract.

The 7M company is the one I'm getting over 10k month.

I know going in what I can do for a company. I have a general idea what % I can increase their sales in year one.

...

I can easily take this company to 4 million in sales without doing any real work. I am seriously considering do away with Fee based services and only pursuing deals where I receive a % of the increase in sales.

Thanks for the awesome info AP, couple questions:

1) How are you so positive the ROI% increase you are going to provide a company? (like when you mention being about to increase sales to $4 million) do you have previous experiences you are basing this off of, or is this mostly a rough guesstimate?

2) When you mentioning pursuing a % deal of profits you increase sales by, how do you plan on ensuring you get paid accurately and get a fair %?

My concern would be a business trying to rip me off by not paying me as high as a % that I would be owed...

3) As you charge a high premium for your services, do/have you had many businesses decline your services for a less expensive SEO company etc?

[entrepenerd]

Originally Posted by Dexx

Thanks for the awesome info AP, couple questions:

1) How are you so positive the ROI% increase you are going to provide a company? (like when you mention being about to increase sales to $4 million) do you have previous experiences you are basing this off of, or is this mostly a rough guesstimate?

2) When you mentioning pursuing a % deal of profits you increase sales by, how do you plan on ensuring you get paid accurately and get a fair %?

My concern would be a business trying to rip me off by not paying me as high as a % that I would be owed...

3) As you charge a high premium for your services, do/have you had many businesses decline your services for a less expensive SEO company etc?

One thing I would say right off is that if you're concerned about a business partner ripping you off, you should never consider working with that partner. If you're paying attention, you'll catch on to signals early on that will make you question whether your partner is on the up and up. If you get a funny feeling, walk (no, run) away.

You'll also notice that I use the word business "partner". It's important for you and your "clients" that you consider this a partnership and they do to. It makes it much more beneficial for both of you.

Another note. If you've picked a good partner based on the above, they are going to be more than happy to pay you a small percentage of the gains your netting. I'd be happy to give you 10% of the gain in profits if your changes were netting me an additional 90% in profits. Most legit biz owners would feel the same way. It's just like an affiliate program only it's not automated. Just make sure you do some work up front to help track how the changes you're helping with are impacting profits/sales so they are more tangible to the owner.

[Bayo]

Originally Posted by Dexx

Thanks for the reply Bayo, just to clarify, is that 4 "email replies" in an autoresponder for $250-$300 per month?

Do you also provide sign-up and clickthrough reports to the clients?
Yes, this is the 'partnering' aspect of the relationship and measuring results is something that a lot of small businesses don't have happen currently. Offer this as an 'after-thought' and you're a hero, especially when you let them know you normally charge extra for that service.

What about writing the copy for the emails if they don't quite know what to write?

I do all the research and writing and guess I have an advantage in that I just have to offer my PLR to them with a twist on the presentation and packaging

Is that all included?

Someone sent me an email with a question so I thought I should share it here for others to benefit from the answer.

Q: Why $250-$497?

A: After extensive research I've found it extremely easy to penetrate markets at this rate. Aim for 100 recurring / monthly offline businesses just at a mere $250 and you know what that is.

This is simple and with the right leverage points and content it is doable for even someone with a few months of solid knowledge.

[Bayo]

Originally Posted by netkid

Hey Dexx,

...I am not emphasizing SEO and "1st on Google" systems. I never promise first page on Google, other than explaining all the things I am doing Keep an open mind....there is no particular rule to this offline thing!!

Bruce

I like you clean and simple approach AND the fact that you do what I do ... never promise page 1 or #1 on Google. Some may be good at that but unless you can deliver on your results consistently, stay away from such promises.

[Loren Woirhaye]

The trick is getting your foot in the door with the DECISIONMAKER
who has both the authority to pay you and the understanding
of the necessity of ongoing marketing.

I recently landed a client for an ongoing $1k per month. Because
a lot of copywriting stuff is fitful, catch-as-catch-can, I'm delighted
to have the stable income and also the opportunity to do the
real work improving this guy's web marketing needs... from
copywriting to driving traffic to creating a strong brand.

Many small businesses market and advertise in a way that
doesn't make much sense, sporadically. While some small
businesses and solo-preneur business owners understand
the need for ongoing investment in marketing, a lot of them
are grappling with cash-flow issues and are pretty tight-fisted
and unwilling to bring in smart outside help.

Anyhow - I need to target larger operations myself - I've
realized this. If the business is already spending more than
$100k on advertising and we stuff each year, and it's not
working like it used to, chances are there's room for
improvement. Business decision makers who think like
marketers are not too uncommon - but those who are
really up on the current methods are. A lot of decision
makers come up through the sales ranks and they know
what's up. It's the small mom-and-pops who have been
hosed by SEO people in the past, and who've depended
on a streetcorner location to bring them traffic who will
most struggle, emotionally, with the idea of surrendering
control to a fast-talker who claims to be an internet
expert.

Ultimately, Dexx, I think you would do well to start sorting
for the businesses you really want to work with - ones that
have real opportunity for leverage. Once you basic costs
are covered, it could be a good idea to shift into working
on a pay-for-performance basis. That's where I'm headed,
because it makes closing sales real easy when you take on
the risk... but you have to KNOW the opportunity is scalable
and you can make that growth happen with the skills you
have.

[Hugh]

Dexx,

You might try web site rentals. You own the domain. Month-to month contract.
Exclusive in micro niche. If they quit, you go to the competition.

Hugh

[AP]

Originally Posted by Dexx

Thanks for the awesome info AP, couple questions:

1) How are you so positive the ROI% increase you are going to provide a company? (like when you mention being about to increase sales to $4 million) do you have previous experiences you are basing this off of, or is this mostly a rough guesstimate?

2) When you mentioning pursuing a % deal of profits you increase sales by, how do you plan on ensuring you get paid accurately and get a fair %?

My concern would be a business trying to rip me off by not paying me as high as a % that I would be owed...

3) As you charge a high premium for your services, do/have you had many businesses decline your services for a less expensive SEO company etc?

1. Because of my experience. I know in advance what will happen when I make changes. Like when Tigers wife found out he was cheating with hookers. 99% chance she's gonna dump his a$$ at least temporarily, and he won't be getting lucky with her.

2. Last 2 years Audited CPA statements that were filed with IRS. I get to see all the books.

3. Very funny with that SEO statement. That is the #1 reason WF membes get STUCK in the Offline World.

I NEVER talk about SEO, NEVER. I tell the client I will create a powerful online presence with Virtual Real Estate that they Own.

I give my clients HOPE. This is what Frank Kern sells to everyone.

With 99% of all my new clients, I rarely do any so-called Internet stuff for at least 2 months. I spend the Majority of my time Fixing in-house problems. I generally increase sales by 20-30% in less than 90 days.

Recently I had a client go from 2M to 3M in one day (on an annualized basis). Yep, one day. That client pays me 55k a year.

Managing Expectations with a Client is very important. I don't talk about percentages. 100% of ALL my clients within 90 days all say "Wow, I had no idea this system would work so well."

I literally had a client tell me that yesterday afternoon while I sat in his office. He said "I had no clue you were going to do all this work. You went above and beyond anything I had imagined. If you ever need a reference or a testimonial, please have your prospect call my office." I thanked him and went about my business. This client cut me a check 60 days ago for $10,000 cash and pays me $1,997 per month. Ya think he's gonna leave me? Client told me his sales were up 15% in less than 7 weeks. His sales had been crashing for 10 previous months.

The only so-called thing that all WF members would be concerned about in regards to what I did for him with his so called Internet stuff was the following. Created Google Local Business Center, got him listed in Vertical Directories, changed his Title tag, and that's about it. 2 hours work.

He told me his Internet sales were way up, lol. I was sitting in my chair laughing inside when he made that statement. I did almost nothing. Wait until the Tsunami that's coming hits. The 15% sales increase came as a result of me convincing him to increase his prices, change the way he handles accounts receivables, and I trained his receptionist and sales staff. That's it.

It don't take much folks. Most of you make this harder than it really is.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by AP

...
It don't take much folks. Most of you make this harder than it really is.

That's because there's a gigantic difference between true marketing, and online advertising techniques.

But that doesn't stop people from holding themselves out to be "experts" to the hapless business owners - and then guys like us have to go in and clean up the mess afterwards.

Hell, you should have seen the discussion when I suggested that some of these offliner SEO monkeys are creating massive liability for themselves in their business practices.

You would have thought I had shot their mom because I suggested that they carry some E&O insurance.

[missmojo]

Originally Posted by Dexx

Are these prretty big fish companies? I would assume most Mom+Pop shops couldnt afford that?

They needn't be big companies. It's all about value. Even the 'mom & pops' are spending a significant amount on off-line advertising/marketing. If you can show them the value, they will gladly pay you handsomely to do what they cannot online.

1) You need to leverage your time and expertise. Pull away from 'one-offs' and think continuous service. What is the next thing they want or will need? Map it out and systematically offer them the 'next level'.

2) Plus, you can hold group training for a premium (if you're well-positioned).

I have used these two strategies to make four figures an hour teaching art to middle and high school students...

3) Last, but not least... Do not look at what you "think" most can spend. Go where the money is--the affluent.

Magnetic Success!

Miss Mojo

P.S. Read Dan Kennedy's "NO B.S. Guide to Marketing to the Affluent".

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by AP

Everything I do is Direct Mail or Referrals.

For direct mail, do you work through a list broker and filter businesses by sales figures? Do you also filter based on specific industries?

I'd be interested in learning more about your process (if you're up for divulging). Got any "train the trainer" materials?

[MyLinkClub]

We're doing some CPA stuff with about 30 local gyms where the client pays us $4 per lead that submits their information directly to the gym for a "free pass".

This so far, has worked out to an extra couple thousand per month.

Still tweaking, though

[AP]

Originally Posted by Lance K

For direct mail, do you work through a list broker and filter businesses by sales figures? Do you also filter based on specific industries?

I'd be interested in learning more about your process (if you're up for divulging). Got any "train the trainer" materials?

I make my own list. I use a combination of the Yellowpages, Google search co's on page 3+ (the wanabees who have yet to make it), Chamber of Commerce and the BBB (great for getting owners name)

I then mail using the "Dunning Mailer method" Google it.

Letters go out, drive visitors to website, site does all the heavy lifting (video, long sales copy, free report, etc...) site then gives prospect my Phone number. Original letters have no phone numbers, client must go to site.

Client calls me, live person answers, operator tells them I will call back within one business day.

I call client, tell them what I do and who I am (refresh what video said) then I ask a LOT of questions. I tell them they need to Qualify.

If I think the client is good for MY BUSINESS then I send PDF or fax the Questionnaire.

Client completes, faxes back. I Google them, their competition, and whether or not I can help them. 90% I can help. If I like them and they fit my Ideal client then I will work with them.

I am Interviewing THEM, not the other way around.

I am the Ringmaster, the Guru. I am the only one who can turn the business around.

Client writes check for $5,000 - $25,000 for Initial setup, then pays me a continuity fee on average $1,497 to $2,497 per month, 12 month minimum.

[Tsarina]

Originally Posted by AP

I make my own list. I use a combination of the Yellowpages, Google search co's on page 3+ (the wanabees who have yet to make it), Chamber of Commerce and the BBB (great for getting owners name)

I then mail using the "Dunning Mailer method" Google it.

Letters go out, drive visitors to website, site does all the heavy lifting (video, long sales copy, free report, etc...) site then gives prospect my Phone number. Original letters have no phone numbers, client must go to site.

Client calls me, live person answers, operator tells them I will call back within one business day.

I call client, tell them what I do and who I am (refresh what video said) then I ask a LOT of questions. I tell them they need to Qualify.

If I think the client is good for MY BUSINESS then I send PDF or fax the Questionnaire.

Client completes, faxes back. I Google them, their competition, and whether or not I can help them. 90% I can help. If I like them and they fit my Ideal client then I will work with them.

I am Interviewing THEM, not the other way around.

I am the Ringmaster, the Guru. I am the only one who can turn the business around.

Client writes check for $5,000 - $25,000 for Initial setup, then pays me a continuity fee on average $1,497 to $2,497 per month, 12 month minimum.

Love your idea, it totally makes sense. Was not able to find Dunning Mailer method though, beside "Method for detecting and redirecting major mailer's special" which leads to some legal stuff for USPS.
AP, do you make sites for them too?

[shan beach]

wow! good info i'm even more excited about this opportunity! thanks to all!

[Bayo]

To be successful, no matter what your level of experience or inexperience, you MUST know and use leverage. There are 4 points of leverage starting from actually getting prospects all the way through to leveraging what you've got.

If you base your business on shifting advice and themes, you'll struggle to be profitable and successful in your Offline Marketing practice.

[Viroid]

whats the "DUNNING MAILER METHOD?"

[Dexx]

Originally Posted by AP

I make my own list. I use a combination of the Yellowpages, Google search co's on page 3+ (the wanabees who have yet to make it), Chamber of Commerce and the BBB (great for getting owners name)

Awesome response once again AP, I'm curious...are you also part of your local Chamber of Commerce then? Have you had great results/leads from networking through it?

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by Viroid

whats the "DUNNING MAILER METHOD?"

I can't speak for AP, but if it's what I'm thinking of, it uses direct mail packages that look like invoices. Once the envelope is opened, you have the normal sales letter, etc.

Follow-ups are stamped "Second Notice", "Third Notice" and "Final Notice", each time with another sales letter or other material to move things along.

Executed properly, the follow up sequence is much more effective than a single contact. Much the same way a well-executed autoresponder sequence is more effective than a single email.

EDIT:

The mailer does not have to look like an invoice.

If you look at what happens when someone misses a payment on a loan, you'll see the origins of the method.

1. The initial bill (or in our case, the initial offer). Pay it, and you hear nothing until the next billing cycle. Miss the payment, and we go to step 2...

2. A reminder notice is sent. If there is no response, a stronger notice is sent. For marketing, it might mean sweetening the offer or highlighting an additional benefit. You also want to highlight some type of deadline, after which the offer expires.

3. Right before the deadline, you send the 'final notice' warning that the offer you made is about to expire unless they take action and contact you.

A typical program might be an initial offer and three notices spread over two to three weeks.

[rconejr]

Wow great information guys, thanks for sharing. Hope these guys helped you out Dexx, I definitely got some useful info. I just started offering these services and was overwhelmed with clients, now I know why. I'm charging way too little. Embarrasingly too little. Starting at $325 a month.

I was beginning to wonder how I would ever make money doing this, I'm busting my butt putting in lots of hours and very little pay even with 6 month contracts.

[Dexx]

Hey Shelly, I hear ya, but dont forget the "trick" to making big bucks as a business OWNER is to have a SYSTEM that you can pay others to do and duplicate -> scale up.

If your business revolves around you doing all the work, then you will burn yourself out and essentially just have a J.O.B.

Take a look at your current offers and see which ones you absolutely MUST do, and which ones could be outsourced to someone else to do.

Your time is better spent gathering new clients and marketing the business! =)

[fonso]

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for sharing your insights guys.

I've been planning to help businesses with their marketing
down under in the new year 2010 and found your insights
useful and inspirational.

Ciao for now

[hommi_16]

As you know backlinking is a continuous process. So you charge the company for SEO which includes getting them on the first page and then maintaining their rankings.

Now if you feel that you would be ripping them off (I understand that it may not be that difficult to keep someone on the first page for a local term once it gets there), you can charge less to maintain the rankings monthly. For example, charge $500 monthly until it's on first page and then $300 to keep them there.

Keep in mind that even if it takes a while, if you stop building backlinks to a local campaign it will drop!

[joetheseo]

I have a client that I charged $600/mon for SEO only.. Actually he's in the top 10 on powerglide transmissions and racing transmissions

[AndrewCavanagh]

You could be creating a series of online video with tips that link to each other and give them a title on YouTube that matches each search term you want to optimize for.

You can go back to business owners and get hired for project after project.

There's always some other way you can help them make money.

You can help them collect testimonials in video, audio, picture and text form and charge for adding those to a site...one or two testimonials per page...each page optimized for a long tail keyword phrase related to the testimonial.


There's pay per click, SEO, email marketing (adding the emails collected from an offline business and uploading them to AWeber and creating regular broadcast emails for promos etc is a service you can charge monthly for).


The way you really need to think of this is how can you help a business make more sales and profits on a regular basis and with other project.

When you start thinking that way you'll come up with plenty of ideas you can charge for.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[fonso]

Hi AP

Merry Xmas

I just wanted to thank you for your continuing insights.

It's been a timely thread as I'm open to new opportunities
to help others and in return my family financially for this
new year 2010

I'm looking forward to learning and most importantly
Applying

[MADULALI]

Dexx,

As an offline brick and mortar business owner, internet marketer, mentor/coach it is very easy to get and charge offline clients monthly once you understand their mindset.

The first shift in mindset is that you are a "marketer" versus an internet or SEO marketer. Why the shift? If you are an internet marketer only then they will judge your services against some of person who says that they can do it "cheaper."

However, if you are able to offer them solutions to increasing their business then you quickly become a trusted adviser.

Here's two example:

1) A friend of mine who knows about my marketing prowess (I have develop marketing skills that have allowed me to build several million dollar business from scratch) has started a business that involves selling individuals on buying a judgment recovery business opportunity from him.

He is marketing his opportunity via offering seminars, however, his attendance is low. (I have sold high priced coaching programs and other services via offering physical seminars, so I have experience in this area.)

So, what I am going to do for him is to charge him an upfront fee and a monthly fee (perhaps even a % of the new business generated) in order to build him a sales funnel. (Which may include...a free plus shipping offer to get prospects in his funnel, setup one time offers, backend sales etc.) I suspect the contract with him be between $5,00-$20,000 upfront and $1,000 to $2,500 per month plus a percentage of the gross sales (possibly.)

2) In this example, I was talking to a friend of mine on how I just taught a class to a group of my coaching students, on how to make some quick cash on eBay and also use eBay as a lead generator ( I will launch this product as a WSO in the near future...maybe) and he was floored.

I told him how was using a free plus shipping offer to build a business and he wants me to meet with him and help him to 'fix' his business. Once again, I will create a sales funnel for him along with some other business building strategies that he needs in his business

(For example...he has a business card that just has his company name, and his contact info...nothing on the back of the card. I simply mentioned to him that he need to have some kind of incentive laced offer on the back of his card that will drive people to his website to signup for his special report.)

When I told him that, he stood there totally shocked...and when a friend of his approached us, he introduced me as a Marketing Genius. (Go figure.)

So, here's a partial list of services that you can provide that and add a monthly continuity to it:

a) Providing yellow page copywriting
b) Developing scripts/systems to hire salespeople/office staff
c) Setup a free plus shipping offer to help them build their business (learned from Russell Brunson)
d) Write radio commercials
e) Provide press releases (online and offline)
Note: Some may be thinking that they don't have the skill to do some of the writing services mentioned above. Great, you don't have to. In this case all you are is the brains behind the operation. I bet you are smart enough to come to the Warrior Forum and hire someone to write press releases, radio commercials, design cover graphics for your free plus shipping offer, etc.
f) My newest and HOTTEST service: Make them an expert in their field by making them a published author. (I am a published author and know the power of having a book which gives you instant credibility.) I am going to charge big bucks for this service.

Bottom line is when I meet with offline clients, I don't want to be their internet marketing/SEO guy, I want to be their marketing guy. Anything that needs to be done from a marketing perspective, I want them call me.

I hope this is helpful and helps you to wrap your mind around offering the total solution which means that you become someone that they can't live without.


Expect Abundance,

Michael

[thebarksmeow]

This thread is a goldmine. Thanks to all who gave their knowledge and insight.

[Andrew S]

Alright AP this is what I understand you're doing:

The quick dunning mailer that you send has one objective in mind: sending them to your website.

Your website contains a longer sales letter which does all the heavy lifting for you that gets them to call you. Maybe you have some sort of opt-in process for those that don't call you so you can catch them later?

I had it in my mind that the direct mail you were sending was a little bit longer but now that I see the examples it reminds me of the short e-mail's we send just to get people to click on the link inside the e-mail (the shorter the email typically the higher clickthrough). The dunning mailer is just for the prospect to "click" through to your website.

Have you ever given any consideration to niching your services to a particular industry - for example chiropractors or something like that?