Best Way to Spend $500 on Copywriting Courses...($10 beer)

by Mike Williams 30 replies
Hi folks,

I'd like to take my copy to the next level.

I'm also considering doing sales letter for hire as another income stream so I feel I need a bit more formal training.

I'm looking to spend about $500.

What would be the best purchases out there for my money. What copywriting course or courses would give me the most training, info and value dollar for dollar?

I'm looking for courses to help me take my copy to the next level and probably one more about getting copy writing clients.

All suggestions are greatly appreciated...and what the heck I'll throw in a $10 beer for the best answer.

Best Regards,

Mike
#main internet marketing discussion forum #$500 #beer #copywriting #courses$5 #spend
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    Your subject line says a $10 beer but your body copy says $5 beer... That's incongruent, which is something copy shouldn't be.

    Anywho, $500 will get you an awful lot of sweeter than pie books on copywriting - which I'd invest in before doing any courses - I reckon there are few courses out there as comprehensive and complete as Tested Advertising Methods by old JC.

    Colm
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
      Originally Posted by colmodwyer View Post

      Your subject line says a $10 beer but your body copy says $5 beer... That's incongruent, which is something copy shouldn't be.

      Anywho, $500 will get you an awful lot of sweeter than pie books on copywriting - which I'd invest in before doing any courses - I reckon there are few courses out there as comprehensive and complete as Tested Advertising Methods by old JC.

      Colm

      Thanks! I changed the price when I saw wasn't getting any responses. I think you'll find it's congruent now.

      Anyway. Thanks for the info. So you're saying physical books, rather than the stuff online?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
      Originally Posted by colmodwyer View Post

      Your subject line says a $10 beer but your body copy says $5 beer... That's incongruent, which is something copy shouldn't be.

      Anywho, $500 will get you an awful lot of sweeter than pie books on copywriting - which I'd invest in before doing any courses - I reckon there are few courses out there as comprehensive and complete as Tested Advertising Methods by old JC.

      Colm
      Will that one give me a nice swipe file? Will it cover getting copywriting clients?
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hi Mike,

    I think the best copywriting course I've seen in the last few years was in Paul Myer's TalkBiz newsletter. He's been discussing hype and sales copy for the past few weeks, but this last newsletter was a real killer about the crux of great copy.

    He also advertised an ebook that was written by Paul Hancox titled, "The Secrets Of A 10% Conversion Rate".

    It was selling for $47 the other day, but I have no idea what it sells for on the open market.

    I've read one of Paul Hancox's other ebooks and it was a real killer, so I know he delivers what he says he will, and then some.

    You can sign up for Paul Myer's list, and then ask him if he is still selling the ebook at that price. TalkBiz is 1 of 2 newsletters I stay subscribe to, and that I read every word.

    I guess what I'm saying is save your $453 for something else, and buy that ebook. Heck, you can get a lot more free info from Paul M, and this other ebook from Paul Hancox then you will ever read in any of the books/ebooks/reports on the market.

    Use your $453 one something else for your business like advertising or one of your own products.

    Just food for thought ...


    Mary
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
      Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

      Hi Mike,

      I think the best copywriting course I've seen in the last few years was in Paul Myer's TalkBiz newsletter. He's been discussing hype and sales copy for the past few weeks, but this last newsletter was a real killer about the crux of great copy.

      He also advertised an ebook that was written by Paul Hancox titled, "The Secrets Of A 10% Conversion Rate".

      It was selling for $47 the other day, but I have no idea what it sells for on the open market.

      I've read one of Paul Hancox's other ebooks and it was a real killer, so I know he delivers what he says he will, and then some.

      You can sign up for Paul Myer's list, and then ask him if he is still selling the ebook at that price. TalkBiz is 1 of 2 newsletters I stay subscribe to, and that I read every word.

      I guess what I'm saying is save your $453 for something else, and buy that ebook. Heck, you can get a lot more free info from Paul M, and this other ebook from Paul Hancox then you will ever read in any of the books/ebooks/reports on the market.

      Use your $453 one something else for your business like advertising or one of your own products.

      Just food for thought ...


      Mary
      I do appreciate that recommendation. I don't have time to go hounding around for free content though, I'd rather pay and get everything I need on a silver platter.

      But that book you recommend might still be worth buying.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Ritz
      I'd recommend asking in the copywriting forum here. No offense, but a bunch of non-copywriters are probably not going to know a good course if it bit them in the hiney!

      Seriously though, I highly recommend John Carlton's course at John Carlton - Marketing Rebel - Operation MoneySuck Salesmanship Essentials

      It's a steal at that price, and if you want swipes, you can pony up some extra for that as well.

      But there are also a lot of good places you can find swipes. That's a separate subject in itself.

      Best of luck!

      Cheers,

      John

      P.S. Paul Myers IS a damn good copywriter, so anything he recommends is worth a look!
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
        Originally Posted by John Ritz View Post

        I'd recommend asking in the copywriting forum here. No offense, but a bunch of non-copywriters are probably not going to know a good course if it bit them in the hiney!

        Seriously though, I highly recommend John Carlton's course at John Carlton - Marketing Rebel - Operation MoneySuck Salesmanship Essentials

        It's a steal at that price, and if you want swipes, you can pony up some extra for that as well.

        But there are also a lot of good places you can find swipes. That's a separate subject in itself.

        Best of luck!

        Cheers,

        John

        P.S. Paul Myers IS a damn good copywriter, so anything he recommends is worth a look!
        Hey John thanks!
        I was thinking that the mods would possibly move this thread there.

        Now how about that teleseminar...did you get my PM?
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    If you intend to be a serious student/practitioner of copywriting
    there is a whole pile of books worth reading and pondering.

    I've found it useful to read many different authors but you could
    just pick one or two and really delve into them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason_V
    You may want to look into AWAI. American Writers & Artists Inc. I've heard pretty good things about them, but like the poster above said, you may want to check them out, and if you're interested, ask about them in the copywriting forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      As appealing as it might be to think you can buy copywriting skills for $500 that's just not going to happen.

      There are plenty of great courses on the market...anything by John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, Gary Halbert, Brian Keith Voiles, Jay Abraham...they're all great and there are plenty more I haven't named.

      But here's the bottom line.

      They're all a waste of money if you want to get really good.

      Because the one thing you really have to do to write great copy is to study the greatest copy in history and to write a ton of sales copy.

      And none of that will cost you one red cent.

      To become a paid online copywriter:

      Start by going to www.hardtofindads.com and typing every million dollar ad in there into an online sales letter format.

      Then start breaking up all the great ads into different sections:

      Headlines, opening lines, captions, bullets, call to action, PS...

      Break them up and start studying the best of each sales letter.

      Write out 50-100 great headlines in a day.

      Then the next day write out 25-50 great opening lines.

      Then the next day write out 50 great bullets.

      Keep doing that for 3 months and USE what you learn in your own sales copy.

      And study online sales letters too.

      You don't need to buy a swipe file these days...the internet is already jammed full of swipes...old and new.

      Copywriting is a skill. It can't be bought.

      You have to do the work to gain the skill.

      That's the real secret hidden in every course.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author Joni
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        As appealing as it might be to think you can buy copywriting skills for $500 that's just not going to happen.

        There are plenty of great courses on the market...anything by John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, Gary Halbert, Brian Keith Voiles, Jay Abraham...they're all great and there are plenty more I haven't named.

        But here's the bottom line.

        They're all a waste of money if you want to get really good.

        Because the one thing you really have to do to write great copy is to study the greatest copy in history and to write a ton of sales copy.

        And none of that will cost you one red cent.

        To become a paid online copywriter:

        Start by going to www.hardtofindads.com and typing every million dollar ad in there into an online sales letter format.

        Then start breaking up all the great ads into different sections:

        Headlines, opening lines, captions, bullets, call to action, PS...

        Break them up and start studying the best of each sales letter.

        Write out 50-100 great headlines in a day.

        Then the next day write out 25-50 great opening lines.

        Then the next day write out 50 great bullets.

        Keep doing that for 3 months and USE what you learn in your own sales copy.

        And study online sales letters too.

        You don't need to buy a swipe file these days...the internet is already jammed full of swipes...old and new.

        Copywriting is a skill. It can't be bought.

        You have to do the work to gain the skill.

        That's the real secret hidden in every course.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        That actually really enlightened me, makes total sense.
        Put in the wrench work don't just buy the parts.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        As appealing as it might be to think you can buy copywriting skills for $500 that's just not going to happen.

        There are plenty of great courses on the market...anything by John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, Gary Halbert, Brian Keith Voiles, Jay Abraham...they're all great and there are plenty more I haven't named.

        But here's the bottom line.

        They're all a waste of money if you want to get really good.

        Because the one thing you really have to do to write great copy is to study the greatest copy in history and to write a ton of sales copy.

        And none of that will cost you one red cent.

        To become a paid online copywriter:

        Start by going to www.hardtofindads.com and typing every million dollar ad in there into an online sales letter format.

        Then start breaking up all the great ads into different sections:

        Headlines, opening lines, captions, bullets, call to action, PS...

        Break them up and start studying the best of each sales letter.

        Write out 50-100 great headlines in a day.

        Then the next day write out 25-50 great opening lines.

        Then the next day write out 50 great bullets.

        Keep doing that for 3 months and USE what you learn in your own sales copy.

        And study online sales letters too.

        You don't need to buy a swipe file these days...the internet is already jammed full of swipes...old and new.

        Copywriting is a skill. It can't be bought.

        You have to do the work to gain the skill.

        That's the real secret hidden in every course.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        Excellent post! I agree with everything, but I still think a few courses can help to lay the foundation for understand WHAT makes a sales letter great, so when you are analyzing and building this skill you know what you are looking at and what you are looking for.
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        • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
          Originally Posted by Mike Williams View Post

          Excellent post! I agree with everything, but I still think a few courses can help to lay the foundation for understand WHAT makes a sales letter great, so when you are analyzing and building this skills you know what you are looking at and what you are looking for.
          You can discover the foundations from the wealth of free information already online.

          For starters you could go to the Makepeace Total Package site as someone here suggested and read the archives.

          Clayton is selling a book for $200 on his site but most people don't realize this whole book is posts from his site which you can read completely free.

          You could also check my blog, John Carlton's blog, the free audio at boostmyresponse, Gary Halbert's site thegaryhalbertletter.com (in fact that might be the best place of all to start.)

          There is no end of people teaching the basics completely free.

          The only reason there aren't more great copywriters is becasue the average person simply won't put in the effort to develop the skill.

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
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          • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
            Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

            You can discover the foundations from the wealth of free information already online.

            For starters you could go to the Makepeace Total Package site as someone here suggested and read the archives.

            Clayton is selling a book for $200 on his site but most people don't realize this whole book is posts from his site which you can read completely free.

            You could also check my blog, John Carlton's blog, the free audio at boostmyresponse, Gary Halbert's site thegaryhalbertletter.com (in fact that might be the best place of all to start.)

            There is no end of people teaching the basics completely free.

            The only reason there aren't more great copywriters is becasue the average person simply won't put in the effort to develop the skill.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
            Hi Andrew,

            Exactly, and thank you!

            I think the OP is heck bent on spending his money though lol.

            Btw, your post before this one was right on spot.


            Mary
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      • Profile picture of the author Sami
        Originally Posted by Mike Williams View Post

        Hi folks,

        ... What copywriting course or courses ...?


        Mike
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        to think you can buy copywriting skills for $500 ...

        ...
        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        Andrew

        I think you just may have misinterpreted Mike's intentions. It seems to me that Mike is looking to buy a copywriting "course" not "skills".

        But of course you'r eright that skills only come with preactice and effort.

        Mike

        I'd suggest buying training is not a bad idea in any subject area that you're interested in. Though Andrew is right that like all valuable skill it takes time and effort to get good but hey you have to start somewhere.

        I like Andrew's suggestions for learning but then that's what a good course does for you in a sturctured and detailed manner. You laso get the expert guidance and support of a copywriting master rather than to leave you to find your own way.

        My nominations are, the amazing and funny and super smart John Carlton (as John Ritz suggested earlier) and Ray Edwards' :: Web Copywriting Explained ::

        I personally went thru this excellent live training last year. Ray delivers the training with clarity that few people can match.

        I don't know if the training course is avilable right now but I know that sometimes Ray makes previous recordings available for those who pre-enroll for his next course. If this grabs you just contact him and ask.

        Good luck
        Sami
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    There was a wso on copywriting by Brian McElroy. Not being a copywriter, I didn't order it so I can't say how good it is. You might want to check the wso forum and see if the copywriting courses their are what you are looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasW
    You need to take a look at Clayton Makepeace at makepeacetotalpackage.com. This is NOT an affiliate link. He is great and his newsletter is free and full of great tips. He also has guest writers contribute to his newsletter. He has a product or two for sale of course, but the newsletter itself is like going to school with some of the best copywriters in the business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sami
    Mike also try

    Million Dollar Mike Morgan. He too is a great copywriter and a great guy...

    Enter the world of copywriting expert Million Dollar Mike...

    He gets his nickname from the fact that some of his sales letters have sold a million dollars in a day or two.

    Sami
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hey Mike,

    Here is the link to Paul Hancox's ebook: The Secrets Of A 10% Conversion Rate

    I didn't have the link on hand when I mentioned it in my first post.


    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    I see alot of BAD advice in here.

    If you are looking to spend $500 on your copywriting
    education I suggest going to the copywriting forum
    where the REAL copywriters hang out and ask them for
    recommendations.

    Telling someone not to invest in their education, but
    look for free information to me is terrible advice.

    What do you think courses are put together for?

    To shave TIME AND EFFORT from learning something.

    I'm sure every bit of inofmration can be found somewhere in
    this world for free. But why go through the hassle when
    you can get an outline for $500 or whatever price.

    In fact I just spent $500 bucks on 2 marketing courses the other
    day. I always recommend getting courses from people who
    have already done what you are trying to do and succeeded
    in what you are trying to accomplish.

    I have read all the copywriting books mentioned in this
    thread, and none of them are going to help you as
    much and as fast as a step by step course by Michael Fortin,
    or some of the other great copywriters.

    You want quality you got to pay for it.

    Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Personally I only follow two copywriting guys.

    1. John Carlton
    2. Dan Kennedy

    But it all depends on which style you're after...


    Mike Hill

    PS. AndrewCavanagh has a great plan above in his post you should follow. The best part is it's FREE! I also read books Frank Kern had recommended by Charles Bukowski. I find that has helped express things in a more flavorful manner (Try reading Post Office sometime ... it's a solid read and you'll have trouble putting it down)
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  • Profile picture of the author SimonRiver
    I'd recommend AWAI, their stuff is on the next level and they have very qualified instructors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua N. Rabon
    Eugene Schwartz's "Breakthrough Advertising". Particularly if you want to bring something new to market.

    Clayton sells it and the table of contents for the book is so instructive it's used in the salesletter. It's less than a hundred.

    I also echo Andrew's advice and agree that Paul Hancox is the man.

    Also, copy out some Winning Salesletters by hand.

    I don't care for AWAI's stuff. Not because it's not good, just because it's not as good as other incredible stuff that cost's less, like Paul's stuff and "Breakthrough Advertising".

    And Clayton Makepeace's (and Daniel Levi's) free stuff at the "total package" should be studied like you paid big money for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I also recommend going to a real book store, or Amazon.com .

    Spend $50 or so on two or three books.

    Now, buy a decent split page test script.

    Visit some of the popular copywriting resources on the web, like the WF and Michael Fortin's site, sign up for Paul Myer's newsletter, etc.

    Buy a course on AdWords from Perry Marshall.

    With the remaining money, buy some AdWords traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Roach
    AWAI is another excellent course on copywriting.

    I'm also a big fan of John Carlton and Gary Halbert.
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