85 replies
Please delete - don't want to have a post with my name bad mouthing people.
#banned #developer #forced #maxblogpress #optin #wordpress
  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hey Robert,

    Thanks for letting us know.

    That's a shame about them taking his plugins down off the site. He has some good ones too.

    I hate to say this but I think we will be seeing a lot more of this stuff happening where the optins are concerned. More and more people are disgruntled about being forced into opting in, but most of all they are taking action in various ways.
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    • Profile picture of the author lerxtjr
      Bummer, I'll miss maxblogpress. We get it from all angles don't we? The general public, Google themselves and throw the FTC into the mix. Everyone wants to kill the guy offering good stuff because good guys that offer good stuff are "accessible" and take the beating in place of those who cannot be found and hung.

      Meaning, all those "real" spam guys that you can't report and can't get rid of and can't track down to hang them at their finger nails, they laugh comfortably in a hammock with a martini in hand.

      Hell with all of it. I think I'll thumb my nose to the whole thing and go skiing tomorrow. Now how many in corporate America are saying that tonight?

      We still get some benefit out of what we do :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by lerxtjr View Post

        Bummer, I'll miss maxblogpress. We get it from all angles don't we? The general public, Google themselves and throw the FTC into the mix. Everyone wants to kill the guy offering good stuff because good guys that offer good stuff are "accessible" and take the beating in place of those who cannot be found and hung.

        Meaning, all those "real" spam guys that you can't report and can't get rid of and can't track down to hang them at their finger nails, they laugh comfortably in a hammock with a martini in hand.

        Hell with all of it. I think I'll thumb my nose to the whole thing and go skiing tomorrow. Now how many in corporate America are saying that tonight?

        We still get some benefit out of what we do :rolleyes:
        Marty, we are here and going no where. I don't think we have done anything wrong which makes us hide the tail between our tail and run away. Until now, I have never posted any comment to some of the very very few negative blog posts about maxblogpress or me because I think if I'm doing right stuffs then I don't have to fight to prove it. There's already hundreds of blog posts and people who love what we do.

        But, I think this time negative poster has won with comments without any evidence. This is the first time I'm posting for such comments. People should now get prepared for all the negative myths being busted regarding maxblogpress.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      One of the problems of building your list off of freebie seekers. However I think he could have avoided a lot of aggravation by being upfront about the opt-in at the download vs. letting people download it, upload it, install it, activate it, and then find out you must opt-in in order to actually use it.

      I can see how that would ruffle some feathers. Now the whole banning campaign is over the top. Don't want to opt-in...delete it and move on. But again, if he had required opt-in up-front at the download point it would have weeded out a lot of the "everything online should be free" peeps.

      Yea and those who do opt-in and then complain he is spamming are just clueless as to what is spam. If you double opt-in, those emails are not spam. If they don't like them they should unsubscribe vs. whining or reporting those emails as spam.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        I can see where people would think he was "aggressive" - I'm on his list and get hit at least once a day...we must have picked up one of his plugins somewhere.

        If he is distributing the plugin to "non marketer" types, I could see where they might think it is spam - They don't know what opt-in - opt-out means.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mattk
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          I can see where people would think he was "aggressive" - I'm on his list and get hit at least once a day...we must have picked up one of his plugins somewhere.
          Yes, that is the reason why I unsubscribed the first time. This was before I realized how the IM game is played.

          I ended up opting in again since I liked his product so much.
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        • Profile picture of the author pawan
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          I can see where people would think he was "aggressive" - I'm on his list and get hit at least once a day...we must have picked up one of his plugins somewhere.

          If he is distributing the plugin to "non marketer" types, I could see where they might think it is spam - They don't know what opt-in - opt-out means.
          Jeremy, it depends upon when you are subscribed. Sometimes, we have discount event when I email each day to make sure all the people get noticed about the event. (Even then people create support ticket saying they missed the event and can we offer the discount).

          Usually, we email at least once a week for "MaxBlogger Stories". It's a pure content based blog, where other bloggers shares their success stories. I don't think anyone should be offended by such content.

          Also, I'm not putting a gun in peoples head to stay subscribed to our newsletter. There's unsubscribe link at the bottom of each and every email we send and the user can stop the newsletter instantly by clicking that link.

          Unsubscribing from the newsletter doesn't make our plugin deactive. The user can continue to use the plugin without staying subscribed to the newsletter. What else they want for using a free plugin with free support?
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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

        One of the problems of building your list off of freebie seekers. However I think he could have avoided a lot of aggravation by being upfront about the opt-in at the download vs. letting people download it, upload it, install it, activate it, and then find out you must opt-in in order to actually use it.
        Alan, there's readme.txt file provided with all the plugins where there is clearly written that the plugin requires one time free registration.

        Those freebie seekers should read the given documents before complaining.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mattk
    I use MBP ping optimizer. Will the plugins still work?

    BTW, I had successfully unsubscribed to his plugin at one time. But, then I realized how much I liked it and subscribed again.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by Mattk View Post

      I use MBP ping optimizer. Will the plugins still work?
      Yes, it will still work Matt. The plugin has been removed from the Wordpress plugin respository but it is still available from our maxblogpress website. In fact we recently did a minor bug fix for the plugin and released it in our website.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    Matt,

    The plugins are still available on his site (simple google search for "maxblogpress" will find it) ... but you can no longer add them by searching right within wordpress, and you won't get the auto-upgrade notifications on the plugins page anymore.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mattk
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      Matt,

      The plugins are still available on his site (simple google search for "maxblogpress" will find it) ... but you can no longer add them by searching right within wordpress, and you won't get the auto-upgrade notifications on the plugins page anymore.
      I wonder if he will offer upgrades to his list? Unless he is pissed at WP all together.

      He will probably develop for Joomla now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        I don't think you quite understand what the open source community is all about: it's not about high pressure sales. You contribute your work, your work gets known, appreciated, you get business from the viral aspect of being a contributer to a huge WordPress community. It's a goldmine if it's treated as such. And WordPress is very picky which themes and plugins are in their directory..trust me, I know because I have themes there and I feel fortunate, because I get good traffic from them. MaxBlogPress crossed the line and he paid the price.
        The WordPress community members don't mind paying for premium themes and plugins, if required to get the job done, as long as they aren't spammed or have incessant nag screens. I dumped all-in-one-seo plugin in favor of Platinum Seo because of the huge nag screen.
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        • Profile picture of the author pawan
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          The WordPress community members don't mind paying for premium themes and plugins, if required to get the job done, as long as they aren't spammed or have incessant nag screens. I dumped all-in-one-seo plugin in favor of Platinum Seo because of the huge nag screen.
          You might be talking about very very few people who can pay the money. What if someone don't have money to pay for the plugin?

          I still get many requests from people who wants my paid plugin for free in exchange of a review blog post. (usually I have to say no). That's huge commitment than optining for a newsletter.

          I'm sure, 99% people in the world will say, give me the software for free in exchange of optin for a newsletter. In fact they'll even agree for not being able to opt out ever.

          Wouldn't you jump in if MS Office, Windows, Photoshop and all other paid softwares just ask for opting in for a newsletter in exchange for the software? I'll be surprised if you'll say no.

          Max Banner Ads, Stripe Ad was initially designed as a paid plugin with a price tag. I later chose to give it away in exchange of newsletter subscription. There's thousands of users for these plugins. I'm sure if I had put a price in those plugins, those thousands of users would have never get benefited by the plugin and they'll happily subscribe for the newsletter for getting the price removed.
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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by Mattk View Post

        I wonder if he will offer upgrades to his list? Unless he is pissed at WP all together.

        He will probably develop for Joomla now.
        Yes, I'm pissed off by this, But Matt I'll surely provide upgrades to all our maxblogpress plugins. However, the "MaxBlogPress Revived" plugin has been temporarily suspended until I get all these thing sorted out.
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    • Profile picture of the author scottgallagher
      what a joke. someone puts in their own personal time to make your life (or someone's life) easier with their software and this person gives it away for FREE, in exchange for permission to send some emails. In fact, using aweber, it's easy to get off the list, so you might get ONE email.

      Are these people serious? They are actually complaining about this model? What, I will do all this for you, give it to you for free and you're complaining when I ASK to send you an email?

      This ain't right....but then again, we really shouldn't get up tight in our panties over this, they're not likely buyers anyhow.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by scottgallagher View Post

        what a joke. someone puts in their own personal time to make your life (or someone's life) easier with their software and this person gives it away for FREE, in exchange for permission to send some emails. In fact, using aweber, it's easy to get off the list, so you might get ONE email.

        Are these people serious? They are actually complaining about this model? What, I will do all this for you, give it to you for free and you're complaining when I ASK to send you an email?

        This ain't right....but then again, we really shouldn't get up tight in our panties over this, they're not likely buyers anyhow.
        Scott, you almost got it right. He's not asking, he's demanding. He's saying "I got you to download and install this free thing, now that you've done it, you have to give me your email to use it." In a way, it's like a hidden continuity ploy - you don't know about the continuity until after you've hit the buy button for the lead-in product. The only difference is that you pay with an email (and your time) instead of cash.

        If you watch things unfold, you'll see list owners whining about people that subscribe, grab the freebie, then bolt. You can't win.
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        • Profile picture of the author pawan
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Scott, you almost got it right. He's not asking, he's demanding. He's saying "I got you to download and install this free thing, now that you've done it, you have to give me your email to use it." In a way, it's like a hidden continuity ploy - you don't know about the continuity until after you've hit the buy button for the lead-in product. The only difference is that you pay with an email (and your time) instead of cash.

          If you watch things unfold, you'll see list owners whining about people that subscribe, grab the freebie, then bolt. You can't win.
          As I pointed this earlier, there was always a notice in the readme file that the registration is required. It's just that people don't read the instruction properly.

          Also, user can instantly unsubscribe from the newsletter if they don't like it and continue to use the plugin. I don't forcefully hold the people in my newsletter.

          It's looking something different because people are not used to get marketed in this way. If people has issue with this the people should have issue with tv and radio channels as well. They don't tell us upfront that we need to watch their ads for watching their channels. Google don't tell us that we'll see ad at the top and at the right column if we search for the web. Yahoo, don't tell us that there will be huge ad box in my inbox if I use their free email. Yahoo don't even tell us that they'll send promotional email to us. iPhone don't allow to use bluetooth for file transfer even if it is possible to do.

          We don't complain all these because we accepted it and now we are used to it.
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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by scottgallagher View Post

        what a joke. someone puts in their own personal time to make your life (or someone's life) easier with their software and this person gives it away for FREE, in exchange for permission to send some emails. In fact, using aweber, it's easy to get off the list, so you might get ONE email.

        Are these people serious? They are actually complaining about this model? What, I will do all this for you, give it to you for free and you're complaining when I ASK to send you an email?

        This ain't right....but then again, we really shouldn't get up tight in our panties over this, they're not likely buyers anyhow.
        Thanks Scott. I hope everyone realize how much works needed to build a plugin and distribute it. It doesn't stop there either. People ask for support, people wants bug fix, people want new feature, people want it to be able to run in new version of wordpress.

        We were doing all these things for free. We have forum in our own website just for providing support for these free plugins. Sometime we spend a whole day fixing the problem one to one for some plugin users.

        I don't know why people ignores all the good things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    The only problem with having an optin before download is then it couldn't be listed in the wordpress directory (searchable within a blog)... the way that system works is direct download.

    His plugins will still run in wordpress, but he is now missing out on a TON of traffic... people have to download the plugin directly off his site.
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  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
    I recently found one from MaxBlogPress that I really liked. It's an updated version of an older plugin from someone else. It's not on their site, only on the WP site. I was a bit taken aback when it forced me to opt-in to his list when I tried to activate it. There was no warning, nor an explanation, or anything. It made me wonder if I'd have to do that for every blog I put it on. Thoughts going through my head like ... am I going to get denied b/c I've already registered with this email addy?

    So I don't have any compassion for him. There are good ways to handle stuff, and bad ways. He picked just about the worst possible way to do that.

    I found another plugin that didn't work with it b/c it doesn't use the V2.8 plugin hooks. I posted a support ticket to ask if they plan to update it, and two weeks later got a curt reply saying I'm welcome to fix it myself. I read it and thought, "Yeah, right, and you think I'm gonna buy something from you NOW?"

    The other plugin that didn't work with it ... I posted a comment on the author's blog and she asked me what plugin it was. I told her and said she might be able to update it to make it current, but she might charge a small "donation" for it. I said "Go for it!" She posted a reply the next day saying it was done and, per my suggestion, she's accepting $10 donations for it! I sent her $10 and got the code. Bully for her!

    When I compared the source with the previous version, I saw that she basically rewrote the entire thing! Then I noticed how much code in the one from MaxBlogPress was dedicated to that infernal registration bit -- about 2/3s! And it made updating the thing virtually impossible. No wonder they didn't want to bother.

    This gal has the right idea. She's got a really great forms plugin she's been developing that will have a "pro" version available with more features for a fee. Here's the relevant thread for the one she updated: Display Widgets WordPress Plugin

    I found another plugin from a guy who was whining on his blog that he's gotten over 35,000 DLs, and has only made $200. "If people would just donate one lousy dollar ..." he lamented.

    I've been a software developer my entire career, and I just don't get the "socialist" attitude prevelant in the Open Source community ... and why consumers are so loathe to support the people creating all of this freaking INCREADIBLE software!

    They hate anybody who tries to make money, but they LOVE having IBM throwing millions of dollars at them for support. Money that IBM earns by charging fat service contracts for otherwise "free" software.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by SageSound View Post

      I recently found one from MaxBlogPress that I really liked. It's an updated version of an older plugin from someone else. It's not on their site, only on the WP site. I was a bit taken aback when it forced me to opt-in to his list when I tried to activate it. There was no warning, nor an explanation, or anything. It made me wonder if I'd have to do that for every blog I put it on. Thoughts going through my head like ... am I going to get denied b/c I've already registered with this email addy?
      First of all, if you look at the readme file before installation you'll find that it actually tells you that there's one time free registration required. It was even mentioned in the wordpress plugin repository if you navigate to the installation instruction. I don't blame this on you. Most people are in hurry and they don't find the time to read the instructions properly.

      If you try to install this plugin in another blog using the same email address then the plugin will get activated instantly when you click on the register button. You won't even feel like there was a registration form. I have put great care in making sure the people don't face inconvenience while installing the plugin.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    mostly because he had a forced optin on all his plugins. They were free in the wordpress directory (searchable within your blog), but once you install it you have to "activate" it... enter your name and email.

    The optin form redirects back onto your own blog, and you're on his list.
    taking advantage of the WP community to get people ON ANTHER *****G LIST is not cool, especially if its forced. I am getting so much spam and i am so many lists...so i really, really cant say that this is a good thing [anymore].

    As for MBP, yes i know them, using MBP Ping Optimizer myself but stopped using it. It did some weird stuff, it sent out multiple pings etc....furthermore i think its just an urban myth that you get "banned" by editing your posts/articles and multiple pings. (IF this even happens.) You can google a bit and you will find no real information on this - if it were the case 90% of all blog owners would be "banned" by pinging services once a post gets edited a few times. I say this is nonsense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      taking advantage of the WP community to get people ON ANTHER *****G LIST is not cool, especially if its forced. I am getting so much spam and i am so many lists...so i really, really cant say that this is a good thing [anymore].

      As for MBP, yes i know them, using MBP Ping Optimizer myself but stopped using it. It did some weird stuff, it sent out multiple pings etc....furthermore i think its just an urban myth that you get "banned" by editing your posts/articles and multiple pings. (IF this even happens.) You can google a bit and you will find no real information on this - if it were the case 90% of all blog owners would be "banned" by pinging services once a post gets edited a few times. I say this is nonsense.
      you are absolutely right...YOU DON"T GET PENALIZED FOR EDITING POSTS AND MULTIPLE PINGS...I do it all the time and my blog has been online since 2006...I have several top 10 positions in Google and no problems whatsoever...the newer versions of WordPress addressed the ping issues as well as other issues so you don't need many plugins that you used to need...

      here is how I feel about the open source community contributors: if you don't want to contribute in the true spirit of what the open source community is all about, then don't..release your plugin or theme as a premium plugin or theme and charge for it accordingly. Don't bitch and complain that your free theme or plugin isn't getting enough donations...because then it's not really free is it?
      :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        here is how I feel about the open source community contributors: if you don't want to contribute in the true spirit of what the open source community is all about, then don't..release your plugin or theme as a premium plugin or theme and charge for it accordingly. Don't bitch and complain that your free theme or plugin isn't getting enough donations...because then it's not really free is it?
        :rolleyes:
        It's all about perception Karen. If anyone don't like the plugin they are free not to use it. Not anyone will put a gun in people's head to use anything. Open source is about freedom. The developer should have freedom to release the software in the way they like it. User will decide if they want to use it or not. It doesn't make sense to complain about the softwares they don't like. There might be other hundreds of users who actually likes the same software.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      taking advantage of the WP community to get people ON ANTHER *****G LIST is not cool, especially if its forced. I am getting so much spam and i am so many lists...so i really, really cant say that this is a good thing [anymore].

      As for MBP, yes i know them, using MBP Ping Optimizer myself but stopped using it. It did some weird stuff, it sent out multiple pings etc....furthermore i think its just an urban myth that you get "banned" by editing your posts/articles and multiple pings. (IF this even happens.) You can google a bit and you will find no real information on this - if it were the case 90% of all blog owners would be "banned" by pinging services once a post gets edited a few times. I say this is nonsense.
      First of all, all the people have an option to decide if they want to use the plugin or not. I and my team put lots of efforts to develop those plugins and distribute it for free. If you see the another way around, wordpress is actually taking advantage of our effort to get new features for the wordpress for free. Well, I don't see that way, I see the win-win-win situation. For getting benefits someone don't have to lose anything for another one to gain. All people can get benefits without losing anything.

      The forced optin is just an urban myth Look at the posts above.
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Well poor guy..Though we can say that what he did was
    wrong, a part of me also wants to say that like most
    marketers he was just trying to bring home the bacon..

    there's a lesson learned here though..If we are to do the
    same we should be very transparent. Let people know that
    we are getting their email and let them have an option
    to unsubscribe anytime.

    My .02
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      Well poor guy..Though we can say that what he did was
      wrong, a part of me also wants to say that like most
      marketers he was just trying to bring home the bacon..

      there's a lesson learned here though..If we are to do the
      same we should be very transparent. Let people know that
      we are getting their email and let them have an option
      to unsubscribe anytime.

      My .02
      Omar, it seems someone is spreading out the wrong myth. I DO let people know that they are going to receive emails and I DO let them unsubscribe anytime. Read my other replies above for more explanation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Angel Anderson
    Robert, thank you for the info
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaarrrggghhh
    I just went through this with one of their plugins yesterday and I too was really taken back when I was forced to subscribe in order to 'activate' a free plugin? Then, I just got friggin really frustrated that I had to go hunt down an unsubscribe!!! That is a HUGE frustration for me as I NEVER subscribe to anything unless I can plainly see an UNSUBSCRIBE or CANCEL readily available. Besides, it just wasn't a kewl way to handle capturing leads...nice plugins tho.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by Aaarrrggghhh View Post

      I just went through this with one of their plugins yesterday and I too was really taken back when I was forced to subscribe in order to 'activate' a free plugin? Then, I just got friggin really frustrated that I had to go hunt down an unsubscribe!!! That is a HUGE frustration for me as I NEVER subscribe to anything unless I can plainly see an UNSUBSCRIBE or CANCEL readily available. Besides, it just wasn't a kewl way to handle capturing leads...nice plugins tho.
      It seems you are talking about another person, not me or maxblogpress. You don't have to hunt down for unsubscribe. I use aweber for my newsletter. There's unsubscribe link at the bottom of each and every email we send. What can be easier than that?
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  • Profile picture of the author andreasnrb
    WP.org plugins/themes are suppose to be free, opting in to use is not FREE.
    Removing his stuff was the right thing to do. He can probably resubmit the plugins/themes after he changed them to adhere to wp.org rules.
    Also you should be upfront with this collecting information stuff. Probably violates some privacy regulations forcing people to optin without them knowing.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      Well poor guy..Though we can say that what he did was wrong, a part of me also wants to say that like most marketers he was just trying to bring home the bacon..

      there's a lesson learned here though..If we are to do the same we should be very transparent. Let people know that we are getting their email and let them have an option to unsubscribe anytime.

      My .02
      Omar, I'm not going to say he was "wrong", but I will say he may have been too clever for his own good. He misjudged his market, at least with respect to the WP directory.

      As was pointed out, most of the WP community has nothing against people making money for the work as long as they are upfront about it (premium themes, paid support, etc.). I tend to think that, had the opt-in been mentioned in the description of the plugin, he likely would not have had a problem.

      The way MaxBlogPress handled this, it would be like writing out a donation check to a non-profit and then telling them that before you actually sign the check and turn it over, you'll need their whole member list so you can market to them.

      I use the optimizer plugin, so I'm on the list. But the emails have long since earned a filter that lands them on the digital compost heap...
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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        As was pointed out, most of the WP community has nothing against people making money for the work as long as they are upfront about it (premium themes, paid support, etc.). I tend to think that, had the opt-in been mentioned in the description of the plugin, he likely would not have had a problem.
        John, thinking the same way I had put the registration required information in the readme.txt file. It was even visible while browsing the plugin in wordpress directory and read the installation instruction. It seems people usually don't read the instructions properly. I think it should be plastered in the very very visible way so even the blinds don't miss it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
          Originally Posted by pawan View Post

          [...] I had put the registration required information in the readme.txt file.
          You still don't get it.

          UPFRONT means before the download on this page: MaxBlogPress Ping Optimizer

          However, on that page there is nothing about the requirement to register, only some BS about "reviewware"...
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          • Profile picture of the author pawan
            Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

            You still don't get it.

            UPFRONT means before the download on this page: MaxBlogPress Ping Optimizer

            However, on that page there is nothing about the requirement to register, only some BS about "reviewware"...
            Istvan, if we look things like a lawyer then it's impossible to mention each and everything. I have put the registration information in the readme.txt file under installation instruction. I think its logical to put it at that place because a user must read the readme file and follow the installation instruction.

            Also, I don't automatically subscribe them to the newsletter. I tell them specifically that they are going to receive the newsletter if they subscribe. They have an option to choose to subscribe or not.

            Here is one more example:

            Your signature says:
            "7 Best WordPress tutorials for a sign-up"

            I went there on the optin page and I read from top to bottom. You only say that I'll get the report INSTANTLY if I put my name and email there and click the button. I did. But instead of getting the report you are now showing me a page telling me to check the email.

            You should put these information upfront that I need to check my email and click on the confirmation link as well to get the report.

            Also, no where in your page you have written that if I give my information you are going to send me promo/tips newsletter periodically. Don't you think those things are necessary to mention before someone sign up to get the report?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Hocking
          Removing all the plugins seems extreme. If you don't like having to register it, then just don't install it.

          Am I missing something here?
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          • Profile picture of the author pawan
            Originally Posted by John Hocking View Post

            Removing all the plugins seems extreme. If you don't like having to register it, then just don't install it.

            Am I missing something here?
            It made me surprise as well when my plugins got removed from the repository. Later I found that, it's because some people didn't like the optin form box.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
          Originally Posted by pawan View Post

          John, thinking the same way I had put the registration required information in the readme.txt file. It was even visible while browsing the plugin in wordpress directory and read the installation instruction. It seems people usually don't read the instructions properly. I think it should be plastered in the very very visible way so even the blinds don't miss it.
          Hi Pawan,

          I'm using several of your plugins and I did sign up to your newsletter, it was no big deal to me. But like many it did give me an uncomfortable surprise that I had to subscribe to activate AFTER I installed it.

          If I had known that before I downloaded and installed it would not have been a problem for me. But the surprise just did not feel well.

          Referring to a readme file in your messages above seems like a weak excuse for your marketing strategy. It is not surprising news that people do not read them. EVERYBODY who develops software KNOWS that users do not read manual.

          I think if your intention would have been to be open and upfront about the registration, you would have simply added the info to the download page. That you hide it inside the readme after download makes it very clearly look like a marketing tactic=> Don't tell people first, instead let them dl and install - then they will sign up more easily because of the trouble they already went through. My guess is you were afraid to lose downloads if you told about the registration on the 'sales' page. Me at least, i did not notice that info anywhere...

          So, while I like your plugins very much and continue to use them, I think there is some responsibility on your side when people perceive your sign up strategy not well. So you can say, you don't care about those who are offended, that's ok. But it's not ok to put the responsibility for the bad taste back on them by saying they should have read the readme file. Responosibility is yours because you were not open about your conditions.

          One can chose to go this route, we do it in marketing in many ways, but we still are responsible.

          Ralf
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          • Profile picture of the author pawan
            Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

            I think if your intention would have been to be open and upfront about the registration, you would have simply added the info to the download page. That you hide it inside the readme after download makes it very clearly look like a marketing tactic=> Don't tell people first, instead let them dl and install - then they will sign up more easily because of the trouble they already went through. My guess is you were afraid to lose downloads if you told about the registration on the 'sales' page. Me at least, i did not notice that info anywhere..
            Ralf, you made some valid points. But, if you look from my side, then I've done my best to be upfront and inform the user what's going on.

            Let's say, putting the registration info only in the readme file is my mistake. I should have put it in the download page as well.

            Now, let's look what happens after someone installs the plugin:
            1. When they goto plugin's setting page, it says that the user have to register the plugin to activate it. Also, I tell them that they'll get the maxblogpress newsletter when they register it

            See I'm being upfront about it. I'm not just saying that they have to register it. I'm even telling them that they are going to receive my newsletter after they register. Most people never tell such things in their optin form: Example here:
            http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post1644638

            2. As soon as someone install the plugin, I can automatically subscribe them to my newsletter in the background without even telling the user about it. I could do it but I didn't. Because, I know I shouldn't cheat the user. If I want to be dishonest about it then I wouldn't have put the registration box at all. As a programmer of the plugin I have a choice to let the user decide OR subscribe them automatically by myself. I choose the former option.

            3. I use double optin process. Again, I have a choice to use single optin but I choosed to use double optin so that users can decide again if they want to subscribe to receive the emails or not. Yes, I'll lose some subscribers that way, but being ethical and honest is the point.

            If you look the whole scenario, I'm being hammered because I'm using entirely new creative way to gain subscribers. If people think about it properly then they'll realize there's nothing going wrong here. It's just something they unexpected and that's the reason they are compalining.
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            • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
              Originally Posted by pawan View Post

              If you look the whole scenario, I'm being hammered because I'm using entirely new creative way to gain subscribers. If people think about it properly then they'll realize there's nothing going wrong here. It's just something they unexpected and that's the reason they are compalining.
              I can agree about that.

              The problem here is that
              - people ride on the free mentality, and they don't care a bit if you invested time and money.
              - many people just hate being marketed too, and many people in the wp user crowd are not familiar with our ways.

              We will always find both groups, nothing we can do about it.

              That it ends up in being banned in your case is certainly an extreme and undeserved. Not sure how it impacts your business, but again it shows that we always must make sure to NOT depend on other people's sites to support us. Think of all the people who rely on article directories or squidoo or google adsense or blogger - they all lose their business if the external company shuts them down.

              But maybe that's not an issue for your business. You still have everything on your own web site.

              Ralf
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              • Profile picture of the author pawan
                Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

                That it ends up in being banned in your case is certainly an extreme and undeserved. Not sure how it impacts your business, but again it shows that we always must make sure to NOT depend on other people's sites to support us. Think of all the people who rely on article directories or squidoo or google adsense or blogger - they all lose their business if the external company shuts them down.

                But maybe that's not an issue for your business. You still have everything on your own web site.

                Ralf
                Ralf, I have always believed in building a solid business which provides good value to the users. So, wordpress not accepting my plugins won't set me back. It will of course effect a little for now as it was one of my major sources for gaining subscribers but since I have built a solid foundation I'll continue to thrive without it as well.

                The only problem I have is that some people saw only the optin form. They didn't see the support I have provided, they didn't see the free updates, free bug fixes etc... Other companies make users to pay that but I choose to find another free way to support the free plugins.

                In the past 3 years, we have released more than 20 free plugins but only 1 paid plugin. Wordpress should have appreciated how much we are giving back to the community.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by andreasnrb View Post

      WP.org plugins/themes are suppose to be free, opting in to use is not FREE.
      Removing his stuff was the right thing to do. He can probably resubmit the plugins/themes after he changed them to adhere to wp.org rules.
      Also you should be upfront with this collecting information stuff. Probably violates some privacy regulations forcing people to optin without them knowing.
      How opting in can't be free?

      Opting in to use is not Free. Then:
      * Registering for another service should not be free. (There's hundreds of plugins provided by paid and free service which makes the user to sign up for their service)

      * Donation button in the plugin should not be free. (How dare can they ask for donation for their hard work?. They should put an disclaimer saying they'll ask for donation if you use the plugin. Money is a serious no no)

      * Banner or link to author website should not be free. (If they want exposure to their website they should use another easy method. Not waste days and do hard work in developing the plugins)

      I can go on and on.. on such issues...

      Now, let's get back to WP's rule, there's only 4 (the last one was recently added). Read it here:
      WordPress › WordPress Plugins
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by andreasnrb View Post

      Also you should be upfront with this collecting information stuff. Probably violates some privacy regulations forcing people to optin without them knowing.
      Yes, I have been very upfront regarding newsletter thing. Read more about it here:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post1643975
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Like his ping plug in
    If I am busy, I just delete the email each day... takes 1 second.
    oh well
    BTW Robert, highly impressed with your coding skills!
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Like his ping plug in
      If I am busy, I just delete the email each day... takes 1 second.
      oh well
      BTW Robert, highly impressed with your coding skills!
      DogScout, if you don't like our newsletter you are always welcome to unsubscribe and continue to use the plugin. We don't force our user to stay subscribe for using our plugin.
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  • Profile picture of the author bettersocial
    I've used this guy's Max Blog Press Ninja Affiliate plugin and only have good things to say about him.

    He has some pretty nice products..but this post just goes to show how non IM people see marketers as
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    • Profile picture of the author Elle Holder
      Huh, thanks for letting us know. I saw all the bad press he was getting on the WP forums a few weeks ago, and wondered what would happen.

      I've been using one of his pluggins for the last few years, and yeah, I did find the over aggressive emailing kind of obnoxious. After a few months I just set up a rule to delete his emails.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author pawan
        Originally Posted by ElleJ View Post

        Huh, thanks for letting us know. I saw all the bad press he was getting on the WP forums a few weeks ago, and wondered what would happen.

        I've been using one of his pluggins for the last few years, and yeah, I did find the over aggressive emailing kind of obnoxious. After a few months I just set up a rule to delete his emails.
        Again, as I said earlier, if you don't like our newsletter you are free to unsubscribe anytime. You don't have to setup rule to delete the emails. I'll be more than happy to NOT send email to the people who don't like it. I just want people to give the newsletter a try and then they are free to make decision on if they want to continue to receive newsletter or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by sashas View Post

      I've used this guy's Max Blog Press Ninja Affiliate plugin and only have good things to say about him.

      He has some pretty nice products..but this post just goes to show how non IM people see marketers as
      It just the fact that I can't make everyone happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author andreasnrb
    His plugins will show up in the wp.org plugin directory without the registration stuff removed and probably name change also. Its already in the works.
    Don't mess with people and don't use licenses you don't understand =).
    Signature
    Excellent product, Excellent support, great for affiliate marketers (Amazon, ClickBank etc)
    http://andreasnurbo.com
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by andreasnrb View Post

      His plugins will show up in the wp.org plugin directory without the registration stuff removed and probably name change also. Its already in the works.
      Don't mess with people and don't use licenses you don't understand =).
      andreasnrb, I absolutely understand the GPL license.

      I don't care if anyone wants to release a fork of it. Let's see how anyone can do all the stuffs we are doing for free:

      * Dedicated forum for each plugin for the support. User can ask for the support in the forum for free
      * New release of the plugin with bug fixes for free
      * New features get added for free
      * When wordpress releases its new version we release the updated version for free

      It's easy to say but very HARD to do. The one who ripps others work for their benefit don't know how to provide value.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

    All I have to say is with web apps, be very careful how much you're catering to the "information wants to be free" hippie crowd.
    How ironic, given that WordPress is free.

    Presumably, you don't use WordPress, Google search, read news on Yahoo, etc. Otherwise - welcome to the hippie crowd

    ----

    All MBP apparently has to do is include a notice before the download that email registration will be required to activate the plugin.

    Considering there are thousands of WP plugins and MBP is apparently the only one using this tactic, MBP sticks out like a sore thumb.




    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Emmanuel ED
    I've used some of this Guy's Plugins and I was really pissed off at the fight sight of the email Optin before the plugin would be activated. I can't argue that he has no right to do so If he wants to, besides, it's his work. But what's so hard about leaving a small explanation of what users should expect in the Read Me.txt?

    However, I still use some of his plugins(the Ping Optimizer, I think) on a couple of blogs as I don't find subscribing to his List a big deal- I've found some of his emails useful to me.

    Forced Optin may be a pretty cool marketing trick but I can bet with Half of my money that you'll only end up with an UNRESPONSIVE, SUPER LOW Conversion Rate List.

    -Emmanuel.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by Emmanuel Inyang View Post

      I've used some of this Guy's Plugins and I was really pissed off at the fight sight of the email Optin before the plugin would be activated. I can't argue that he has no right to do so If he wants to, besides, it's his work. But what's so hard about leaving a small explanation of what users should expect in the Read Me.txt?

      However, I still use some of his plugins(the Ping Optimizer, I think) on a couple of blogs as I don't find subscribing to his List a big deal- I've found some of his emails useful to me.

      Forced Optin may be a pretty cool marketing trick but I can bet with Half of my money that you'll only end up with an UNRESPONSIVE, SUPER LOW Conversion Rate List.

      -Emmanuel.
      Emmanuel, I'm doing exactly what you are saying but people never read properly before complaining. If you check the readme.txt file you'll find that under the installation instruction there is already a notice telling that the plugin requires the free registration.
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  • Profile picture of the author digigo
    I have to say, forced opt-in is too risky. The subscriber should know it upfront, not after they have go all the trouble downloading it.. and then get hit with a "opt-in or else". This reminds me of a case that this fellow designed sales page in a way, if the buyer backs out, and cancel the order form, the email he has already entered is put on the subscriber list..the purchase form is a two step process, first step is to enter this email ... he got a lot of complaints.. accused of spamming.. not to my surprise..
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by digigo View Post

      I have to say, forced opt-in is too risky. The subscriber should know it upfront, not after they have go all the trouble downloading it.. and then get hit with a "opt-in or else". This reminds me of a case that this fellow designed sales page in a way, if the buyer backs out, and cancel the order form, the email he has already entered is put on the subscriber list..the purchase form is a two step process, first step is to enter this email ... he got a lot of complaints.. accused of spamming.. not to my surprise..
      The order form is designed that way for the convenience of the user and NOT for spamming. There is two step process so when a user returns again then we can identify the user and pre-fill the second form with their name, address etc...

      I have never used email collected from that form and never will.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by pawan View Post

        John, thinking the same way I had put the registration required information in the readme.txt file. It was even visible while browsing the plugin in wordpress directory and read the installation instruction. It seems people usually don't read the instructions properly. I think it should be plastered in the very very visible way so even the blinds don't miss it.
        Okay, you got me on this one. I'm guessing I'm like a whole bunch of people who have seen either a blank spot or the same boilerplate instructions, that I've pretty much given up on finding anything useful there.

        I agree that there should be a note on the main description page pointing to special instructions. It's like hiding a 'gotcha' in a software license. Everybody accepts them, almost nobody reads them, and the developer can say "but it's right there in the license you accepted..."

        Originally Posted by pawan View Post

        As I pointed this earlier, there was always a notice in the readme file that the registration is required. It's just that people don't read the instruction properly.

        Also, user can instantly unsubscribe from the newsletter if they don't like it and continue to use the plugin. I don't forcefully hold the people in my newsletter.

        It's looking something different because people are not used to get marketed in this way. If people has issue with this the people should have issue with tv and radio channels as well. They don't tell us upfront that we need to watch their ads for watching their channels. Google don't tell us that we'll see ad at the top and at the right column if we search for the web. Yahoo, don't tell us that there will be huge ad box in my inbox if I use their free email. Yahoo don't even tell us that they'll send promotional email to us. iPhone don't allow to use bluetooth for file transfer even if it is possible to do.

        We don't complain all these because we accepted it and now we are used to it.
        Regarding the readme file, see my comments above. Same idea.

        As for the ads, people accept them because it's been common practice since the beginning. If one provider suddenly changed the way they did things without putting a notice in a conspicuous place, they'd get a reaction similar to what you are seeing.

        Here's an example...

        I subscribe to a satellite TV service. One of the channels is reserved for announcements, support FAQ, etc. I don't know anyone who actually tunes in to this channel after the first day or so. Once you learn how the remote is supposed to work, etc., you never check it again.

        Now the satellite service adds another channel. This new channel requires you to push a button on your remote to accept that channel's ads on your car radio, or you can't watch the programming. Sure, there's a notice on the support channel, but no one has seen it because no one expects anything new to be there. This is something they are not used to, and they don't like it.

        In America, we have a saying...

        "The pioneers are the ones that take the arrows."

        In this case, you were the pioneer.

        By the way, I do use the ping optimizer plugin and I do get the newsletter. Once I saw the confirmed opt-in and the unsubscribe links, I stopped worrying about it.
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        • Profile picture of the author pawan
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Okay, you got me on this one. I'm guessing I'm like a whole bunch of people who have seen either a blank spot or the same boilerplate instructions, that I've pretty much given up on finding anything useful there.

          I agree that there should be a note on the main description page pointing to special instructions. It's like hiding a 'gotcha' in a software license. Everybody accepts them, almost nobody reads them, and the developer can say "but it's right there in the license you accepted..."
          Well, it was under installation section so its not something like hidden under the huge garbage of software license term. I also agree, I should now put this instruction on the description page of the plugin. I hope people don't miss to read it.


          In America, we have a saying...

          "The pioneers are the ones that take the arrows."

          In this case, you were the pioneer.

          .
          I think I'm getting more arrows got hitted to me than I should. I'm sure, once people understand that they are getting such a huge value for free they won't mind trying my newsletter. (which they can unsubscribe anytime they like)

          By the way, I do use the ping optimizer plugin and I do get the newsletter. Once I saw the confirmed opt-in and the unsubscribe links, I stopped worrying about it.
          Thanks John. I assure you that you'll never have to worry about anything regarding doing business with me.
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by pawan View Post

            Well, it was under installation section so its not something like hidden under the huge garbage of software license term. I also agree, I should now put this instruction on the description page of the plugin. I hope people don't miss to read it.
            There will always be people who miss it, but if it's that obvious they have no complaint in my book.

            As for the installation section for plugins, the only time I ever look at that is if I have a problem with a setting or something. I've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of plugins where the install page on Wordpress says the exact same thing...

            > Download
            > Unzip
            > Upload to /plugins
            > Activate on dashboard

            See that enough times, and you just stop looking...

            I wish you luck getting re-listed...
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            • Profile picture of the author pawan
              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

              There will always be people who miss it, but if it's that obvious they have no complaint in my book.

              As for the installation section for plugins, the only time I ever look at that is if I have a problem with a setting or something. I've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of plugins where the install page on Wordpress says the exact same thing...

              > Download
              > Unzip
              > Upload to /plugins
              > Activate on dashboard

              See that enough times, and you just stop looking...

              I wish you luck getting re-listed...
              John, I have decided to put the free registration info message in the description page as well. It will be there by tomorrow. I think after that people won't have any complain about my plugins. Thanks for understanding the issue and for the support
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  • Profile picture of the author grrbtn1959
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      I used to develop wordpress plugin for my own personal use as there not used to be much good plugins catering the needs of marketers (there's still very few plugins for the marketers).

      Later I started sharing the plugins and saw many people want it as well. That's how MaxBlogPress was born. Of course, I can't let it run, spend my time, pay for my hosting fee etc... with donations only. I need to create a business out of the free plugins. That's how the forced optin tactic was born.

      I was still offering the plugin for free but it asked for free registration for building the list. I think that's the better way to do it instead of giving up and stop the development totally.

      As of now, I have got some full time developers who work on these plugins. They are not some random freelancers who build crappy wordpress plugins. They get paid monthly salary and builds good wordpress plugins for the community.

      I myself devote full time for the maxblogpress. If there's no way I can make this worthwhile, then maxblogpress will just be a history and I'll have to shut it down for forever.

      Plugin registration is there just for making people give once chance to look at the newsletter. If you don't like the newsletter then you can unsubscribe anytime by clicking on the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email. (I use aweber for managing my subscribers)

      Here is more information regarding the registration thing:
      maxblogpress.com/blog/76/maxblogpress-plugins-registration/

      Reading some of the posts above I realize that many people take the forced optin as an offence. I think the main concern they have is that they don't know there's an optin form until they have installed the plugin.

      We had such disclaimer in some of the plugins in the "other notes" section. However, I think that's not visible enough. I'll put much more visible disclaimer in the description section so the users can decide beforehand if they want to use the plugin or not. Any other suggestions?


      Thanks to all the supporters of the MaxBlogPress who put their point forward regarding the plugin's optin registration:
      wordpress.org/support/topic/175208

      If you loved the plugins then please tell the world why it should be listed in the wordpress plugin directory:
      wordpress.org/support/topic/315641
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by pawan View Post

        I used to develop wordpress plugin for my own personal use as there not used to be much good plugins catering the needs of marketers (there's still very few plugins for the marketers).

        Later I started sharing the plugins and saw many people want it as well. That's how MaxBlogPress was born. Of course, I can't let it run, spend my time, pay for my hosting fee etc... with donations only. I need to create a business out of the free plugins. That's how the forced optin tactic was born.

        I was still offering the plugin for free but it asked for free registration for building the list. I think that's the better way to do it instead of giving up and stop the development totally.

        As of now, I have got some full time developers who work on these plugins. They are not some random freelancers who build crappy wordpress plugins. They get paid monthly salary and builds good wordpress plugins for the community.

        I myself devote full time for the maxblogpress. If there's no way I can make this worthwhile, then maxblogpress will just be a history and I'll have to shut it down for forever.

        Plugin registration is there just for making people give once chance to look at the newsletter. If you don't like the newsletter then you can unsubscribe anytime by clicking on the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email. (I use aweber for managing my subscribers)

        Here is more information regarding the registration thing:
        maxblogpress.com/blog/76/maxblogpress-plugins-registration/

        Reading some of the posts above I realize that many people take the forced optin as an offence. I think the main concern they have is that they don't know there's an optin form until they have installed the plugin.

        We had such disclaimer in some of the plugins in the "other notes" section. However, I think that's not visible enough. I'll put much more visible disclaimer in the description section so the users can decide beforehand if they want to use the plugin or not. Any other suggestions?


        Thanks to all the supporters of the MaxBlogPress who put their point forward regarding the plugin's optin registration:
        wordpress.org/support/topic/175208

        If you loved the plugins then please tell the world why it should be listed in the wordpress plugin directory:
        wordpress.org/support/topic/315641
        Too little too late! you won't get my vote and I'll tell you why...you refuse to understand how an open source community really works...If you are not getting business from distributing your free plugins, then you're not marketing your services, creating premium plugins and selling them properly. It's not the WordPress users who have a problem. It's you. IMHO, you want the benefit of the WordPress.org traffic, but refuse to play by the rules...sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

        What goes around comes around...when you give freely of your talents, you build TRUST with your visitors, and then people love you for it, and they will give you business.
        Signature
        I love life!
        ---------------
        Free Web Tools
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        • Profile picture of the author pawan
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          Too little too late! you won't get my vote and I'll tell you why...you refuse to understand how an open source community really works...If you are not getting business from distributing your free plugins, then you're not marketing your services, creating premium plugins and selling them properly. It's not the WordPress users who have a problem. It's you. IMHO, you want the benefit of the WordPress.org traffic, but refuse to play by the rules...sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

          What goes around comes around...when you give freely of your talents, you build TRUST with your visitors, and then people love you for it, and they will give you business.
          Open source community strives on freedom. Freedom, to code, freedom to distribute, freedom to use creativity. Developers are free to develop the way they like, it's the user who decide if they want to use the developer's creation or not.

          If you don't like someone's creation then you can sure don't use it but it's not ethical to make that piece of software unavailable to everyone who actually like that software.

          If I'm taking advantage of wordpress's traffic then I'm giving back in return as well. I'm giving away the plugin which took weeks and months to develop. I'm giving away free updates. I'm giving away free bug fixes. I'm giving away free support. I think I'm paying too much price in terms of what I'm getting in return.
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  • Profile picture of the author andreasnrb
    Well I don't think disclosure is enough to be reinstated in the wp.org directory.
    Using forced optin disclosed or not is a violation of the subjective part of the WP.org terms. The plugin should be self contained unless it depends on an external service Google Analytics, Akismet etc.
    Your registration requirement is not required for the plugin to actually do its job.
    Add a subscribe box to the plugins settings pages if you want to. Perhaps add a optional newsfeed to the dashboard.

    And not making money on donations well welcome to reality. Its a well know fact that you don't make any money that way with WP. There are alternate ways to make money with plugins. The most prominent at the moment is Gravity Forms (which is GPL by the way). wp e-commerce another way, Akisment a third. There are a few discussions over at WPTavern.com regarding making money on plugins both in the blog and the forums.

    You should also know that versions of your plugins without the forced optin will most likely make their way into the directory.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by andreasnrb View Post

      Well I don't think disclosure is enough to be reinstated in the wp.org directory.
      Using forced optin disclosed or not is a violation of the subjective part of the WP.org terms. The plugin should be self contained unless it depends on an external service Google Analytics, Akismet etc.
      Your registration requirement is not required for the plugin to actually do its job.
      Add a subscribe box to the plugins settings pages if you want to. Perhaps add a optional newsfeed to the dashboard..
      The registration requirement is one of the most crucial things to make the plugin work. That's how the plugin is supported for free development, free upgrades, free bug fixes and free support. I don't know why people don't appreciate all these efforts for free just in exchange for an email? The user can even unsubscribe from the newsletter any time they want.
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  • Profile picture of the author pawan
    Originally Posted by iYingHang View Post

    I think maxblogpress plugins are nice but i just don't like the newsletter. No opt out. Anyway, I feel pity for him too.
    There is always an opt out link in each and every email we send. Just scroll to the bottom of the email and you'll find the unsubscribe link. You can unsubscribe yourself instantly at anytime using that link. No need to email anyone, no need to contact support nothing. Just one click and confirm that you want to subscribe that's all.

    I don't think anything can be made simpler than that.
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  • Profile picture of the author tritrain
    It's unfortunate (and maybe there's still hope!) that they couldn't find an acceptable compromise.

    I don't like "sneaky" forced opt-ins that make it very hard to opt out. However, defaulting it to opt-in, to me, is not a big deal.

    The programmer should be allowed to recoupe some for their time and creativity.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by tritrain View Post

      It's unfortunate (and maybe there's still hope!) that they couldn't find an acceptable compromise.

      I don't like "sneaky" forced opt-ins that make it very hard to opt out. However, defaulting it to opt-in, to me, is not a big deal.

      The programmer should be allowed to recoupe some for their time and creativity.
      I don't get where is it sneaky? If you read the readme.txt file properly before installing the pluign then you'll find that it says the plugin needs one time free registration.

      When you install the plugin, before activating, it again tells you that you will receive the free tips newsletter.

      After, you hit the submit button there, you'll again receive an email telling you that you'll receive emails from us and do you want to confirm this or not.

      After you click on that confirmation link.. and then AND ONLY THEN you receive the newsletter.

      And when you receive the newsletter, there's always an unsubscribe link at the bottom of each and every email. You can unsubscribe anytime you like by following that link. It's totally automated and you can unsubscribe within seconds. What's so hard about opting out there?
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  • Profile picture of the author pawan
    It's funny to read the signature of most of the people who says putting an optin form is wrong. I have hundreds of things to say about that if they think just putting an optin form and asking for user permission to let them subscribe is wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    Well honestly the guy should have made it a choice. He has shot himself in the foot by forcing people to do things. He probably would have got a lot of sign ups if he had given people the option as people love great stuff free and probably if he had worded it right he could have ccreated a great list but not he has ruined it for himself.

    Best not to force people to do stuff without at least given them the option of unsubscribing
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by JonMills View Post

      Well honestly the guy should have made it a choice. He has shot himself in the foot by forcing people to do things. He probably would have got a lot of sign ups if he had given people the option as people love great stuff free and probably if he had worded it right he could have ccreated a great list but not he has ruined it for himself.

      Best not to force people to do stuff without at least given them the option of unsubscribing
      Here it is again the false myth. I'm wondering who is spreading all these false myths.

      I don't force people to subscribe and there is unsubscribe link in each and every email I send. Read more about it here:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post1643975
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  • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
    Under the GPL you can SELL the software so I don't see why you can't trade the software for an email. Even Stallman says you can package it up and sell the code if you want.

    One could argue that one's personally coded plugin would be exempt from any licenses that Wordpess is under.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by Wakunahum View Post

      Under the GPL you can SELL the software so I don't see why you can't trade the software for an email. Even Stallman says you can package it up and sell the code if you want.

      One could argue that one's personally coded plugin would be exempt from any licenses that Wordpess is under.
      Exactly Wakunahum. People are in false belief that open source software must be priced at $0. Open source says free in terms of freedom not in terms of price.
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  • Profile picture of the author Victoria Gates
    Interesting info.. thanks for sharing. I will watch what happens!
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  • Profile picture of the author sandra.IMqueen
    As IM develops further and more and more people become exposed to it we are bound to hear objections raised where previously they weren't.

    Many people don't read the small print and then later down the line they blame others for their failure.

    For what it's worth, I say, keep it simple, keep it clear and never leave people in any doubt as to what you want from them and what their obligations are.
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    • Profile picture of the author jcaviani
      You could give people like this free Superbowl tickets and they would complain they had to pay to get there. They have no concept of value and it will be a huge stumbling block in many facets of their lives.
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  • Profile picture of the author UnstoppableJoy
    This may have to do with the new FTC rules and interpretations. They are quite specific about free meaning free - and that means no opt in unless disclosed up front. More than likey the WP folks are simply being careful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gobala Krishnan
    I think the main issue is the "forced" optin. And I think when the WP forum users say there is "no optout" what they are trying to say is that they cannot bypass or skip the optin registration.

    To be honest when I saw Pawan doing this a long time back I wished I had the technical know how to do WP plugins, and I would have implemented a similar strategy. Except I think I would have added a "No thanks, I'm not interested" link to bypass the plugin registration.

    Anyways Pawan I'm sure you benefited a lot from your plugins and built up a huge list. If WP refuses to accept you back then I guess you just have to move on. They are the boss
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by Gobala Krishnan View Post

      Except I think I would have added a "No thanks, I'm not interested" link to bypass the plugin registration.

      Anyways Pawan I'm sure you benefited a lot from your plugins and built up a huge list. If WP refuses to accept you back then I guess you just have to move on. They are the boss
      Gobala, when I designed the plugin, I replaced the old typical optin form with the built in optin form inside the plugin. Instead of making them download the plugin with an optin form, I installed the optin form inside the plugin and activated the plugin only when someone optin and confirm their email.

      In our internet marketing way, we usually place an optin form for a report or software. People have to optin, then confirm the email and then they'll receive the report/software. If you look around you won't find any optin form with the button saying ""no thanks I want the report without opting".

      Well, now since people don't expect an optin form inside the plugin, I have changed our plugin's home page with a text below the download button saying that that plugin will require one time free registration. It's prominent and will tell the user in advance that there is a registration form.

      Regarding the optional optin form, I'm still thinking about it. I'm not sure if there will be enough subsribers coming in that way that I'll be able to support the development.
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  • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
    This is why you should just register a separate email for any spam or anything of this sort. Problem solved!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohsin
    Pawan, did you mention in your plugin description that the plugins won't activate until they have opted in to your list? If not, don't blame users for getting annoyed by surprise forced optin.
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    • Profile picture of the author pawan
      Originally Posted by Mohsin View Post

      Pawan, did you mention in your plugin description that the plugins won't activate until they have opted in to your list? If not, don't blame users for getting annoyed by surprise forced optin.
      Yes, I had that notice in the plugin installation section of the readme file.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Wow.....

    I'm in shock, I really am...

    I can't believe they would slap him like this...

    People are such people at times.

    Peace

    Jay
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