Keep your eyes open, boys and girls...

114 replies
You may have noticed a few instances of people posting WSOs that had shill comments in them recently. There was the case with the guys in Singapore, then the ones in the NYC area a few days ago, and now some twits (or one lone twit) posting from IPs all over the world.

There are almost certainly some that we haven't caught yet, and there will definitely be more in the next few weeks.

Every once in a while, people from one or another of the less-than-scrupulous sites decide it's time to come in and screw around. The current plan appears to be a mix of scam WSOs and trolling in the discussions.

Some of it is just con artists and thieves doing what they do. Some of it is an orchestrated effort by other groups to disrupt this forum. Doesn't matter. They use the same techniques.

Yes, the moderators could spend every waking minute hunting them. It's going to take a lot less time, and they'll get removed a lot faster, if you all know how to spot them. And, of course, if you keep your eyes open.

They tend to use a combination of the following tricks.

Old accounts they set up as backups and for sneaky purposes. These may be months (or even years) old, and have a few posts to a few hundred in them. Usually, there'll be a gap in the posting dates.

Sometimes they buy old accounts from people who set them up for other things, or simply don't post here any more.

They will often "groom" the accounts. That means they'll post a few useful things, or even a bunch of one-liners, so they look more like active accounts from legit members. While it doesn't always happen, a major clue to this is a noticeable change in the quality of English used in the posts.

This "grooming" is, by the way, one of the reasons that having a minimum post count of 100 to have a WSO won't work.

These accounts will very often be anonymous users. They will almost never be people whose names you recognize as regular contributing members.

The WSO comments will usually follow one of a few patterns. The first is a testimonial that seems both over the top and written like sales copy. A series of these in a WSO made by an unfamiliar member is a solid indicator that something's amiss.

The other major pattern is a number of comments made by, again, unfamiliar members. The most common thing these usually share is that the product comments tend to be written in the sort of English you see from posters in Asia and the Pacific Rim areas, or from eastern Europe.

A third, and less common, pattern is a number of members giving testimonials in each other's WSOs. Again, this is more likely a sign of trouble when the posters are unfamiliar or relatively new.

This is not an exhaustive list, and none of these are conclusive by themselves. But, they're a good reason to report the posts. The mods can get a better look at what's going on than you can, but we don't see as much as the group as a whole.

Two common characteristics of the WSOs these people post:

Big income claims: Yeah. When you see someone talking about making tens of thousands a month, and you have no clue who they are, that should be a Big Red Flag. Of course there are people who do that much and more, but they're not going to sell a $10,000/month formula that actually works as a $27 WSO. Not unless they're talking about building up to those levels over a period of time. (And usually not even then.)

I personally recommend against buying any WSO that makes specific income promises.

"Proof" of income" Please, people, learn something. There is absolutely no "proof of income" that's possibly conclusive in these things. It can all be faked, and most of it is.

Yes, even the video stuff. Anyone who can tinker with their system can make pages on their own PC or web host look like they're hosted at any domain they like.

I have reason to expect a run of this stuff in the next little while. This is not a reason to panic. It's not even a reason to be a little bit worried.

What it does require is that we pay attention. We need to recognize it for what it is, and deal with it in an adult way. Accept that sometimes insisting on having a civilized group will piss off the creeps, and the cost of that is the occasional minor inconvenience caused by those creeps trying to make others do things their way.

As long as you know what's happening, you just report it and move on. There's no reason to be annoyed or get angry.

These people feel powerful because, when they pull your strings, you jump. If you refuse to jump, and you refuse to buy, they have nothing to gain from their games.

Don't feel bad about reporting things if you're not sure. Your job is not to boot people. It's to alert the mods to what seems suspicious. Our job is to make those decisions, and we have a lot more evidence to work with than is available to others.

Also, ignore anyone who talks about "innocent until proven guilty," or who says that the evidence is not 100% conclusive. This is not a criminal court, and we have no power to throw people in jail. The risk of unfairly imprisoning someone is the reason for the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard for evidence in criminal cases.

This isn't even a civil court, where people can be fined huge amounts of money and have their property confiscated. So, we don't even have to adhere to the "preponderance of evidence" standard.

This is a private space, which offers the WSO forum as one of the benefits of membership. Break the rules, or behave in ways that look suspicious, and you can be made to leave.

Membership is a privilege, not a right. Privileges can be withdrawn at any time.

As far as the trolls...

Don't respond. Don't fight with them. Report them, and get on to more useful ways to invest your time.

They have only the power you give them. Give them nothing.


Paul

PS: "Shill" means promoting a product falsely, in cahoots with the seller, in order to increase number or price of sales. In the context of an online system like the WSO section, that can be done either by groups of people acting in concert, or by a single individual using multiple user accounts and pretending to be more than one person.
#boys #eyes #girls #open
  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Thank You Paul.
    -WD
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    • Profile picture of the author craigc1980
      Thanks Paul

      Very good info.

      Didn't know any of this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Nice one Paul.
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Great move..

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author cftc
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Thank you very much Paul for the Great information!
      Oh yeah... Another thing to watch for...

      One-liners intended to get links for a keyword-tagged sig file. Lots of these from India, Malaysia and Pakistan...


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Oh yeah... Another thing to watch for...

        One-liners intended to get links for a keyword-tagged sig file. Lots of these from India, Malaysia and Pakistan...


        Paul
        yes, I've seen a lot of those in the support forums and it's annoying but certainly not surprising given the size of the membership here.:rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Sam,
          you dont realise how sneaky people can be unless someone points it out to you.
          That's true. Most people have no need to know or think about this stuff.

          I got a couple of emails questioning the wisdom of telling a bunch more people about the tactics I mentioned in the beginning of the thread. What those people missed is that the creeps already know it. It's the basic stuff. Creeps-in-training can learn all of that and a lot more in a few hours on the nastier boards.

          The ones who need to know it and don't are the honest folks.

          It's like sitting in an enclosed room at night, and trying to wave away the darkness with your hands. It doesn't work. Just a little bit of light, though, and things change immediately.


          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Gee S
    Not sure if anyone would agree, but this post should be made into a sticky so people can regularly reference to it, otherwise it will become lost with the thousands of other threads.

    Gee
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    • Profile picture of the author ppbiz
      Originally Posted by Gee Sanghera View Post

      Not sure if anyone would agree, but this post should be made into a sticky so people can regularly reference to it, otherwise it will become lost with the thousands of other threads.

      Gee
      Thanks Paul- It's good to have a 'heads up'. I agree with Gee- this would be a good sticky.

      Rhiannon
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  • Profile picture of the author Aussieman01
    Thanks Paul for the information
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  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
    Paul your posts are an absolute joy to read.

    I think this is a must-read for all members of the forum. Not only is this an excellent appeal to help the admins combat a growing menace on the forum, it is also peppered with excellent nuggets of business and productivity advice. Seriously, everyone should read this. Awesome post.

    I wish you weren't so busy with these kinds of idiots and had more time to post here!

    I don't know if it is my imagination, but it looks like some one is having a laugh and contributing to this thread in the exact ways you warn of. Either that or it is incredibly coincidental and ironic.
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

      Paul your posts are an absolute joy to read.

      I think this is a must-read for all members of the forum. Not only is this an excellent appeal to help the admins combat a growing menace on the forum, it is also peppered with excellent nuggets of business and productivity advice. Seriously, everyone should read this. Awesome post.

      I wish you weren't so busy with these kinds of idiots and had more time to post here!

      I don't know if it is my imagination, but it looks like some one is having a laugh and contributing to this thread in the exact ways you warn of. Either that or it is incredibly coincidental and ironic.
      yeah, I noticed this ,too:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I'm just going to add one more thing to what Paul said, and I know that the
        people who need to hear this most probably won't even read it.

        Use your the good common sense that God gave you when you decide on
        buying a WSO.

        Yes, check the poster. See if it's a long time member who is fairly well known.

        But, if the claims sound too good to be true, 9 times out of 10, they are too
        good to be true.

        I know times are tough and many are looking for that one magic bullet that
        is going to make us a fortune overnight.

        I can honestly tell you after 7 years of pounding my head against brick
        walls that it doesn't exist.

        There are only 2 ways to getting traffic to a site to make money online.

        1. Pay for it
        2. Generate it over time

        You want fast traffic and quick sales, you need to pay for it. There is no
        way around that UNLESS you are somehow able to JV with a number of
        big names with huge lists.

        How many new folks are going to be able to pull that off?

        The generate over time method is just that...it takes time.

        Yes, there are black hat methods that can generate lots of quick traffic,
        but using them is putting your business at risk if you're not careful.

        Point is, there is NO free ride and anybody who promises you differently
        is feeding you a line of crap.

        Bottom line...be careful and use your head.
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        • Profile picture of the author A Bary
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I'm just going to add one more thing to what Paul said, and I know that the
          people who need to hear this most probably won't even read it.

          Use your the good common sense that God gave you when you decide on
          buying a WSO.

          Yes, check the poster. See if it's a long time member who is fairly well known.

          But, if the claims sound too good to be true, 9 times out of 10, they are too
          good to be true.

          I know times are tough and many are looking for that one magic bullet that
          is going to make us a fortune overnight.

          I can honestly tell you after 7 years of pounding my head against brick
          walls that it doesn't exist.

          There are only 2 ways to getting traffic to a site to make money online.

          1. Pay for it
          2. Generate it over time

          You want fast traffic and quick sales, you need to pay for it. There is no
          way around that UNLESS you are somehow able to JV with a number of
          big names with huge lists.

          How many new folks are going to be able to pull that off?

          The generate over time method is just that...it takes time.

          Yes, there are black hat methods that can generate lots of quick traffic,
          but using them is putting your business at risk if you're not careful.

          Point is, there is NO free ride and anybody who promises you differently
          is feeding you a line of crap.

          Bottom line...be careful and use your head.
          Well Steve, if people here listen to what you keep saying, they will save themselves huge money, time, and effort..

          But..Who Listens:confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author ToniMaltano
    Thanks Paul. I also noticed this a few days ago.

    Besides, I am making hundredsof thousands of dollars a day. Watch out for my *cough*WSO*cough*
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  • Profile picture of the author VilPietersen@
    Very good post. I suppose my mind is as green as the grass that grows outside. Thanks!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Thanks a ton for this post, Paul.

    Maybe you should sticky it, at least until this current rash of butt boils on the WF goes away.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Steiner
      Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets View Post

      Thanks a ton for this post, Paul.

      Maybe you should sticky it, at least until this current rash of butt boils on the WF goes away.
      I have just the thing to give you relief from that rash of butt boils. It's an amazing powder that works magically overnight while you sleep. And it not only cures these rashes, but it can make you money too. Just check out my new WSO...
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    Thanks Paul. I have noticed a few of these myself lately. Before I know it, POOF they're gone
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Formby
    This "grooming" is, by the way, one of the reasons that having a minimum post count of 100 to have a WSO won't work.
    Now you tell me lol, i done my wordpress theme pack with resale rights, and sold like 4 lol, tbh though i buy wso and read more than i post but thats just me , tbh though my warior for hire thread done better when i got some credibile reviews so, guys if you are running a wso or hire thread maybe pm some respected members and give them it for free in exchange for a testimonial,

    Mikey
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyler Pratt
    Great post, thanks Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author scattermouse
    Thanks, Paul. We all appreciate the work you guys do around here to keep this forum as good as it is. I'll certainly keep an eye out for anything suspicious, so I can do my part to cut out as many of these idiots as possible.

    I think it's a good reminder to always do your due diligence before buying from anyone, especially someone who hasn't proven themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    How do we know this "Paul Myers" guy is for real? He might have cultivated this account for 8 years just to further his nefarious schemes. I mean, c'mon.... "Paul Myers?" He didn't even concoct a fake name that sounds real. But you gotta admire his dedication. 8 years is a long time to hatch his evil plot.

    John (or Am i?)
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      How do we know this "Paul Myers" guy is for real? He might have cultivated this account for 8 years just to further his nefarious schemes. I mean, c'mon.... "Paul Myers?" He didn't even concoct a fake name that sounds real. But you gotta admire his dedication. 8 years is a long time to hatch his evil plot.
      Yep, I've had my eye on this gentleman, waiting for him to slip up and reveal his true intentions. I also have my eye on that Roger "ExRat" guy, just waiting for him to show his hand.

      Also...

      People who drag up every post on a certain topic. They join the forum today, answer every question that's related to the product they're selling, and then dig into the old posts to answer every related question. You'll see them pulling up dozens of posts that are a year or more old. Often they point readers to their sig lines for the solution.

      My favorite (as already discussed) are those that come in with their amazing, inspirational stories. They're posting because they want to "inspire" and "help others." Oh, and they also want to peddle their WSO in the main forum. But they're truly wounded if you even suggest that peddling a WSO is their true reason for their post.

      Cheers,
      Becky
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Becky, you and John are kornfewzedd. I got started a lot longer ago than you think. For example, it was something like 15 or 20 years ago when I penned my first widely quoted (and often stolen) lesson in life that made the virtual world:

        "Paul's Law: You can't fall off the floor."

        Posted to the FIDOnet tagline echo, from the Nighthawk BBS.


        Paul (Yes, THAT Paul!)
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Becky, you and John are kornfewzedd. I got started a lot longer ago than you think. For example, it was something like 15 or 20 years ago when I penned my first widely quoted (and often stolen) lesson in life that made the virtual world:

          "Paul's Law: You can't fall off the floor."

          Posted to the FIDOnet tagline echo, from the Nighthawk BBS.


          Paul (Yes, THAT Paul!)
          The plot thickens. This is an even bigger, more complex conspiracy than I thought. I got my eye on you, Paul.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Becky,
            The plot thickens. This is an even bigger, more complex conspiracy than I thought. I got my eye on you, Paul.
            Bwahahaha!

            I started plotting this before the Warrior Forum existed. In any form. There are dozens of big name marketers who could pick me out of a lineup and tell you my name was Paul Myers. Hundreds, maybe thousands, could identify me by voice.

            I've got them, the phone company, the banks and the IRS convinced that's who "I" am. And you expect to crack the conspiracy?

            heh heh heh...


            "Paul"
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          • Profile picture of the author richporr
            Man, Paul, FIDOnet and Nighthawk BBS sure bring back memories I haven't had for awhile. Reminds me of the first hard drive I bought used for $100. It was roughly the size of a brick and I was tickled to death to get it.

            As regards your quote, I've found from time to time that I have a basement.

            Thanks for giving us beginners some specifics to watch for--we need it.

            -Richard
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            • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
              Ethical bump.

              This problem won't go away unless we all keep a watchful eye out for the shenaniganists.

              You can't just let the mods do all the work for you. You belong to this community if you post or use the services here, and Paul, et al, only have so many hours in the day.

              Do what you can, it just might be YOUR dollars you save one day.

              KJ
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              • Profile picture of the author Heuristic
                Agreed. We all have to do our share and I think for the most part, a lot of us do - but the scammers are getting craftier it seems. Personally, I might be a little trigger happy and I'm sure I overreacted a few times - but I suppose it's better than sitting back and letting the forum get overrun.

                Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

                Ethical bump.

                This problem won't go away unless we all keep a watchful eye out for the shenaniganists.

                You can't just let the mods do all the work for you. You belong to this community if you post or use the services here, and Paul, et al, only have so many hours in the day.

                Do what you can, it just might be YOUR dollars you save one day.

                KJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Thanks for the reminder Paul. This is very much in line with the "don't feed the trolls" post you made a few years ago when I used to get into it with the trolls. I get into it sometimes in the WSO forum. You're right, it's much better to simply report them and keep on truckin'.

          What astounds me about these type of personalities, is that if they put that much focus, energy, and effort, into actually helping people and more legitimate ways of making money, they would actually make more money in the long haul. It's myopic behavior at it's worst and they don't even realize it. Okay, I've said my piece. Back to my mocha frapp........

          RoD
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          "Paul's Law: You can't fall off the floor."

          Posted to the FIDOnet tagline echo, from the Nighthawk BBS.
          Mine caused some consternation in the Trekkie - excuse me, Trekker - echoes:

          "He's dead, Jim... but you still have to use a condom."

          Some people didn't appreciate the implications of that one, but it still wound up in the tagline file for Mustang Software's OLX mail reader eventually.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
            KJ,

            I do this as a distraction until

            Paul gets hold of them.


            Robert Oliver
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Hot topics are SEO and CPA.
            Ever wonder if they used to push MLM? They do like initials, don't they?

            Dennis - glad you had a chuckle.
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      • Profile picture of the author Heuristic
        This is a good point because, as a scammer, the best way to leverage your efforts is to be able to emotionally move a large number of people at once.

        Some of these "success" stories are really good. They push all the right buttons, tell people exactly what they want to hear, and give them hope that they can get the same results (and, coincidentally, the WSO appears just as the thread is getting maximum attention). They get people emotionally revved up - and that is why they can cause so much damage.

        BTW, Thanks Paul (and the mods) for everything you do - It can't be easy.




        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post


        My favorite (as already discussed) are those that come in with their amazing, inspirational stories. They're posting because they want to "inspire" and "help others." Oh, and they also want to peddle their WSO in the main forum. But they're truly wounded if you even suggest that peddling a WSO is their true reason for their post.

        Cheers,
        Becky
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        My favorite (as already discussed) are those that come in with their amazing, inspirational stories. They're posting because they want to "inspire" and "help others." Oh, and they also want to peddle their WSO in the main forum. But they're truly wounded if you even suggest that peddling a WSO is their true reason for their post.
        That one is my favorite as well and I see it all too often.

        To be honest, I've found much better success in actually answering peoples' questions thoroughly and honestly in the Main Forum if it's a topic that I know a lot about and then, based on my answer, I'll have those people PM me asking for more info or to even buy stuff from me (this always happens when I'm not selling anything! Argh!).

        But, for me, I like helping people. It's a huge part of the reason that I'm an RN and I've experienced great karma/vibes/mojo from helping folks here as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      How do we know this "Paul Myers" guy is for real? He might have cultivated this account for 8 years just to further his nefarious schemes. I mean, c'mon.... "Paul Myers?" He didn't even concoct a fake name that sounds real. But you gotta admire his dedication. 8 years is a long time to hatch his evil plot.

      John (or Am i?)
      LOL!!!

      John (if that IS your real name), that was too funny!

      And I really admire the dedication that the one that calls himself "Allen Says". He's got some real sticking power...

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      Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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  • Profile picture of the author Kishor Karsan
    Thanks Paul for that info..... it seizes to amaze me that people will go to great lengths to try rip others off

    is there not some sort of check that the admins can do for people who sign up, to prevent this sort of thing from happening, it would be a great shame if this warrior forum got hacked, the truly legit people on here would be lost without it, me included

    regards

    Kishor
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Great heads up, but here's another worrying thing I've noticed:

    There are people making snide little comments in WSO threads which are largely irelevant and do nothing but make the OP look less professional.

    Whether it's picking up on a tiny error, or making passing commenting which insinuate a certain negative aspect or flaw.

    Would this be the same people? Who knows, but it is along the same lines of trolling and damages.
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  • Profile picture of the author raynman
    I'm glad you explained what shill is. I was getting ready to google it until I saw the p.s.

    Your post almost made me suspicious of myself. I had to check and make sure I was who I say I am.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    Great post, Paul

    Thank you for enlightening us all to the tricksters. Some of us tend to be too trusting sometimes. Nice to know that there are people behind the scenes here that are keeping an eye on the riff raff.

    Love the line about not giving them our power (trust + money) - so true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    And don't be blind when someone comes in and says I'm making xxxx a month, and writes a long story to try and show how brilliant they are.

    Do your due dilligence. If you take 5 mins to check on a story before saying how wonderful your story is, you will find a lot more information to know how false it is.

    An example of someone selling a wso yesterday, they weren't doing well so they asked an innocent question in the MF. I saw and checked their wso, they didn't give a lot of info but their signature did. When you clicked on it you found they have taken a product by 2 well known marketers, and changed their first name on the sales page. However, these marketers have unique surnames, and they even swiped the testimonials from another well known marketer. The sales page was from Tony and Cynthia but they claimed their name was Jack.

    Brains are going to be onsale again, because too many people who should know better see the big figures and lose theirs.

    ALL THAT GLITTERS ISN'T GOLD
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  • Profile picture of the author Anup Mahajan
    Thanks for the heads up Paul.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    One thing that is hard for new people to understand also is that there is a lot of money to be made online but it takes time effort trial and error and dedication.

    Proving yourself means a lot more then just a few quick answers from a google search.
    This forum is meant to act as 3 things
    1) A place where one can come and learn about the various aspects of Internet Marketing.
    2) A Place where honest income earners can rely on each other when difficult times and trials come ask for help offer help share strategies and have fun.
    3)This forum is the place for everyone to excel in their business efforts promote their business and be of general use to the community. we have an opportunity to promote ourselves when making our signature but that is not meant to be abused nor is this a place that is a vending machine where you pop in your 'offer" and pull out the cash. By proving yourself on this forum you actually bring solutions to people when offering help.

    That aren't check my wso or site out it is what you need . I offered one person a membership to my site because they were crying for help but I never heard back from them . Business takes work it is not a get rich quick thing. Even though a ton of millionaires online can get made that way in a short time it is not an accurate understanding that you will just start something and bammo your rich.

    In the wso section I personally confronted this fellow last night I contacted C and S and I will continue to act on things I personally see so if you are reading this be forwarned I scare not. As a reward for my effort I got singled out by this fellow who began to insinuate some awful things funny thing is when you have nothing to hide it is really hard for someone to find something about you.

    When you make promises you can't keep i.e. I made xxxx in 5 days now you can too simply plug into my proven system and drive your financial woes away. You not only prove yourself in the shady way here but it also follows you along and solidifies your reputation online.

    no one can guarantee your going to make 1 cent success depends on a ton of factors so if you go into the WSO section either bypass altogether ridiculous claims. Or. Be at the mercy of the wolf posing as a sheep. a simple post of what do you guys think could be very beneficial both intellectually and financially.

    That is MO
    -Will
    (WD)

    A lot of people take advantage of the fact people are new and don't know any better. I also agree this post should be made sticky new ones (and older ones) should have it to reference to.
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  • Profile picture of the author robofx
    Banned
    Thanks for the heads-up ... but really, to me it's pretty obvious when I see scammy offerings (here or anywhere for that matter.) I think people would be well advised to not only take heed in terms of what's written in the above warnings, but also to use one's own common sense in reading any sales material. I mean, if you're doing internet marketing, I'd think you'd be less susceptible to salesman tomfoolery than the average person - and the scammy stuff just stands out like a sore thumb. Caveat emptor & all that.
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    • Profile picture of the author AmyBrown
      Originally Posted by robofx View Post

      Thanks for the heads-up ... but really, to me it's pretty obvious when I see scammy offerings (here or anywhere for that matter.) I think people would be well advised to not only take heed in terms of what's written in the above warnings, but also to use one's own common sense in reading any sales material. I mean, if you're doing internet marketing, I'd think you'd be less susceptible to salesman tomfoolery than the average person - and the scammy stuff just stands out like a sore thumb. Caveat emptor & all that.
      It's only obvious until you miss one and get taken. The Warrior Forum is like Disneyland, you just want to believe

      Some scammers are like a mugger, leaving the victim instantly battered and bruised. The more insidious slowly gain trust and pry dollar after dollar from their victims until their pockets are empty.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        I thought it was just my imagination when formerly literate folks I hadn't seen around for awhile suddenly seemed to lose their writing skill.

        Since I noticed this phenomenon, I've been reporting things under the 'better safe than sorry' doctrine.

        Some are clever, and some stand out like a cockroach on a wedding cake... and deserve the same fate.
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        • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          I thought it was just my imagination when formerly literate folks I hadn't seen around for awhile suddenly seemed to lose their writing skill.

          Since I noticed this phenomenon, I've been reporting things under the 'better safe than sorry' doctrine.

          Some are clever, and some stand out like a cockroach on a wedding cake... and deserve the same fate.
          I've been burning up the report button right along with you lately John.
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  • Profile picture of the author summer07
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    ...What it does require is that we pay attention. We need to recognize it for what it is, and deal with it in an adult way. Accept that sometimes insisting on having a civilized group will piss off the creeps, and the cost of that is the occasional minor inconvenience caused by those creeps trying to make others do things their way.

    As long as you know what's happening, you just report it and move on. There's no reason to be annoyed or get angry....
    Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

    Thanks for the reminder Paul. This is very much in line with the "don't feed the trolls" post you made a few years ago when I used to get into it with the trolls. I get into it sometimes in the WSO forum. You're right, it's much better to simply report them and keep on truckin'....
    It's hard to remember that acting like a civilized adult (...'nothing to see here, move along, please'...) works better in the long run than letting loose a long string of expletives.

    How about reposting that 'don't feed the trolls' post? I'd like to read it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karomesis
    why can't people stop scamming and actually focus on running a business? there's boatloads of cash to be made without being a scamming scumbag.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Forums are great way to interact of people in the internet. When in use properly, forum are marketing resource to promote big success. Some forum marketer use false ways to sell like spam and to buy elderly account. When use forum in marketer you wisely be active for sell later things to other customer.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Great post, Paul. I have one small, insignificant note to add...

    If you're unsure about the legitimacy of a new poster, try Googling their screen name. Sometimes these folks use the same screen name in other forums and you can learn what kind of things they're posting elsewhere, which can tip you off one way or another; or sometimes you'll find they are using their real name and have a lot of legitimacy, which can ease your mind about doing business with them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
      Thanks for posting, Paul.

      The WF is the only forum I visit and contribute to regularly, as it is the most informative, helpful and sincere I've come across.

      It's easy to forget that there are people out there whose agendas are less than honourable when the vast majority of members here are as I've already described.

      Will certainly keep my eyes peeled.

      Cheers,
      Sissy
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    Very good post. Being a bit skeptical is healthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author ant_arias
    Very informative post. This forum is way too valuable to be over run by a bunch of scammers.

    The idea of members policing the threads is a good thing. The mods can't be at all threads at once, but if something is brought to there attention, then they can look frther and take action.

    The funny thing about this thread is that I'm one of those people that pretty much had a dormant account until recently. In fact it was one of pauls threads that inspired me to get more involved in the community. Whether I ever offer a wso or not is irrelevant, to The fact that it made me realize what I was getting from this forum and to interject my opinions here and there.

    So to the scammers, stop with all the nonsense and let real business owners and aspiring business owners learn there craft, without us having to waste our time looking for you.

    Anthony
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    • Profile picture of the author All Night Cafe
      Thanks Paul, you have a most insightly way of bringing
      forth information. I've never reda anything you've
      written and not had my eyes open. I hope you stay
      around for a long time.

      Been following you for years.

      Love your style.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simo
    Paul,

    A big thank you from me for continuing to safe-guard the spirit of this forum plus giving us warriors an important education in what these people are *actually* doing when they are posting these fraudulent WSO's.

    Mods- this thread has got my vote for a sticky, especially given that this seems to be happening a bit lately. Failing that, perhaps a new sticky condensed form of the do's and dont's of WSO's...for buyers. Or asking Allen to re-open the "WSO rules" thread so some additions can be made

    In any case, I appreciate the efforts Paul has gone to (along with a number of other warriors in this thread) to safeguard the community.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Thanks for watching out for your peeps at the warrior forum, Paul!

      and for helping "police" our community!

      MissTerraK
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  • Profile picture of the author Emmanuel ED
    One Thing I might Add- Most of These People Don't Have Profile Pictures, often use names such as Billionaire56 and so forth.

    Very Informative Post.

    In Today's Internet, Spam and Fraud in every community, forum and even blogs, and the Scammers themselves are inventing newer methods of scamming people each day. However, By Working together and spotting/revealing these scammers we can effectively protect ourselves.

    Will Surely be on the Lookout.

    -Emmanuel.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Emmanuel Inyang View Post

      One Thing I might Add- Most of These People Don't Have Profile Pictures, often use names such as Billionaire56 and so forth.

      Very Informative Post.

      In Today's Internet, Spam and Fraud in every community, forum and even blogs, and the Scammers themselves are inventing newer methods of scamming people each day. However, By Working together and spotting/revealing these scammers we can effectively protect ourselves.

      Will Surely be on the Lookout.

      -Emmanuel.
      Not true, I've caught two this week that had phony profile pics.....
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  • Profile picture of the author sevenish
    That is some pretty world-class sleuthing you've done there, Paul. It's nice to have a good pair of eyes on the odd confluence of PayPal addresses, ISPs & IP addresses.

    While I'm disinclined to purchase anything with the sort of breathless, frothy sales copy that is more common than not in the WSO section, I do purchase products and services that fit my business needs from vendors whom I know and trust.

    Thanks again to you, Bev, BigMike & others who keep eyes peeled for fraud, shills & other scams.

    Best wishes!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
    Thanks Paul for this information. I also wonder why people posting WSO claiming that they earn $100 to thousands of dollars daily and the book is less than $100 per copy.

    Ross
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ross,
      Thanks Paul for this information. I also wonder why people posting WSO claiming that they earn $100 to thousands of dollars daily and the book is less than $100 per copy.
      I wonder about people sometimes.

      There's a currently running WSO in which someone asked the seller how long his method would take a person to get to making $500 a day. He replied that it would take only a week or two, if the guy did it right.

      While the response might be literally true, depending on what constitutes "doing it right," it's far from likely. The seller is clearly implying that this raw newbie can expect to take the information in the product and create a $180,000 a year income in two weeks or less.

      There are some folks who'd better hope the FTC never starts taking an interest in the WSO section...


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ross,I wonder about people sometimes.

        There's a currently running WSO in which someone asked the seller how long his method would take a person to get to making $500 a day. He replied that it would take only a week or two, if the guy did it right.

        While the response might be literally true, depending on what constitutes "doing it right," it's far from likely. The seller is clearly implying that this raw newbie can expect to take the information in the product and create a $180,000 a year income in two weeks or less.

        There are some folks who'd better hope the FTC never starts taking an interest in the WSO section...

        Paul
        I was thinking about the FTC as I read the paragraph that preceded your comment about it. I'd like to add that if you're not a US Citizen, don't think the new FTC policies don't affect you. There are many countries that are adopting the new FTC policies in part or in whole. The "crackdown" on snake oil isn't just in the US.
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        • Profile picture of the author Simo
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          I was thinking about the FTC as I read the paragraph that preceded your comment about it. I'd like to add that if you're not a US Citizen, don't think the new FTC policies don't affect you. There are many countries that are adopting the new FTC policies in part or in whole. The "crackdown" on snake oil isn't just in the US.
          Dennis,

          You are so right. The FTC have already taken down a New Zealand Spammer living in Australia. If you break the law in a flagrant manner, the FTC will eventually find you and deal to you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            But they're truly wounded if you even suggest that peddling a WSO is their true reason for their post.
            Of course they are wounded - you ruined the timing of their friend (or alternate forum ID) coming to post begging them to "do a WSO"....which allows the OP to then reply in a humble fashion....and there are always a few newbies with $$$ in their brains ready to jump on the "please do it" wagon.

            The sucking noises in some of those threads are enough to ruin dinner.

            As much as I've investigated some people and things here - must admit it never occurred to me that someone who had been in good standing here would hand over (can you say "sell") their WF account to someone else.

            That would explain the recent WSO's I've seen with many complimentary comments in the posts - all of them from people I've never seen here but having a number of posts under their name. Makes me go "huh"?

            The people who come here and post ridiculous income plans, etc - can't succeed if other members here will accept that there is no magic bullet or unknown secret that will pick them up off the floor financially and move them to a castle by the end of the month.

            No matter where you are offline or online - if you are gullible there will be someone there ready to take advantage of it.

            kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Henderson
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        There's a currently running WSO in which someone asked the seller how long his method would take a person to get to making $500 a day. He replied that it would take only a week or two, if the guy did it right.

        While the response might be literally true, depending on what constitutes "doing it right," it's far from likely. The seller is clearly implying that this raw newbie can expect to take the information in the product and create a $180,000 a year income in two weeks or less.

        There are some folks who'd better hope the FTC never starts taking an interest in the WSO section...


        Paul
        I saw this same WSO and immediately thought of " A golfer is guaranteed to hit a hole in one every time he's at the tee box if he would just hit the ball right"

        Excellent OP and a good read from all of the responses. Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author dsmpublishing
    Hi paul

    thanks for sharing this great info - you dont realise how sneaky people can be unless someone points it out to you.

    kind regards


    sam
    X
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  • Profile picture of the author LarzM
    Thanks Paul!
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  • Paul, I'm not sure interweb creeps realise how easy it is spot SPAM account building attempts.

    I used to get one that was from a Mac in a particular location. They changed their ip, but not the rest. Very easy to spot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Seolinkbuilder
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by Seolinkbuilder View Post

      Thx For the info you are absolutely right
      Is this ironic or what. Has anyone else noticed the other meaningless one line responses. Maybe I'm jaded, but I'm guessing at some point a sig line gets attached.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Is this ironic or what. Has anyone else noticed the other meaningless one line responses. Maybe I'm jaded, but I'm guessing at some point a sig line gets attached.
        If you're jaded I am too. In a way we're lucky, they don't get it so they aren't hard to spot.
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  • Do signature files actually attract that much traffic, or are they used more from an SEO point of view. From what I have seen a random signature on a newbies post isn't going to generate any sort of valuable traffic. And yet, they do it - I must be missing something.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaarrrggghhh
    Thanks Paul, some really great information here.

    I have purchased many WSOs without incident but for me, I do look at such things as feedback, testimonials, how long a person has been a member and how many posts (although that is not strong indicator for me) so long as the testimonials are there so your information is very well received and much appreciated.

    Thanks for the heads up and Happy New Year, hoping everyone is prosperous in 2010!
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    • Profile picture of the author TedMarlett
      Paul,

      Thanks very much. It took me a while to get through the thread, but there is some really great information in it.

      What you were talking about is probably one of the main reasons why I don't buy any WSO material and really laugh at some of the postings.

      I came here several years ago to learn from the masters here, but many of them have gone away.

      Could it be because of the amount of work to get rid of the trolls and spammers? I hope it wasn't.

      I like the way the forum was run a few years back.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
        Thanks Paul.

        I have noticed teams of 2-3 working together.

        Asking for reviews and the reviewers have very
        little post.

        Everyone is all of a sudden a SEO expert.

        I buy lots of crap just to see what is going on.

        Robert Oliver
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Everyone is all of a sudden a SEO expert.
          Hey - that's perfect for them. By the time it's clear they don't know anything, they can be long gone.
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
            Kay,

            Hot topics are SEO and CPA.

            Mostly rehashed, regurgitated crap
            with a conman's twist.

            Great explanation on why this topic is
            so hot.

            Robert Oliver
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              The sucking noises in some of those threads are enough to ruin dinner.
              That's the funniest thing I've read all day - thanks!
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        • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
          Originally Posted by Robert Oliver View Post

          I buy lots of crap just to see what is going on.
          I knew it had to be somebody.

          Knock it off...You're just encouraging them...:p

          KJ
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  • Profile picture of the author abelacts
    This is very enlightening, Paul. Never imagine that a forum can be so interesting and full of drama... I am happy that WF is aware of this and has taken steps to maintain the integrity of the forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianLeanza
      Thanks a ton for the heads-up.
      Being pretty new to the whole Internet Marketing business and to the warrior forum as well, I have not yet learned to tell real and valuable comments from what might be labeled spam or scam.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gorilla
    I think many of us are getting more savvy with the shills. I only check out WSOs from established members who I have been watching for at least some time.

    I pass on all unfamiliar names.

    Thanks for the heads-up, though. I will be more watchful in the future.

    ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    I personally recommend against buying any WSO that makes specific income promises.
    When I see income claims it is easily the first indication that the WSO is doing nothing more than trolling for gullible newbies. Or that its some newbie who just made their first thousand online and is now selling an ebook about how everyone can do what they do and make the same money.

    Any claim that others can make such and such amount of money is like a bill board stating "I think you are gullible" and anyone who is attracted to such things needs to learn how to curb those emotions.

    Any statement that you can make x with some system or strategy in y amount of time is a false income statement... unless they are talking about getting a job paying guaranteed hourly wages.
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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      I posted this response on another thread by mistake....

      This is where it belonged.


      I remember always taking the position that the Warrior Forum would take care of itself...and if "it aint broke....don't fix it."

      Maybe I was wrong.

      I've been around this joint long enough to remember a time when guys like Paul Myers spent most of their time sharing wisdom around here.

      Flash forward 3 years....and the Zen Master spends most of his time trying to warn fellow Warriors about the bad apples that have jumped into bed with us en masse.

      And that's kind of sad I think.

      Because when great Warriors are reduced to patrol duty.......we all lose.

      I remember a time when it wasn't that way.


      xxx Vegas Vince
      Killing Me Softly....
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  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    The best way to know whether a WSO is real or fake is by asking realistic questions.

    If you're going to buy a WSO that's got no solid proof of whether it works, you're in trouble.

    So, ask questions. Once they answer it themselves, you aren't satisfied or it raises an alarm in your mind report it.

    I think many times there can be things hidden from a WSO buyer by a seller, so its' better to ask questions before buying a WSO. I call it "investigation".

    Also, when you buy a product, post a review for other members to know a WSO better.
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  • Profile picture of the author rajivkumar900
    I am new and its really useful info for me.
    thanks a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allurre
    Great job Paul -- May we all continue to protect and preserve the prestige of this board.
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  • Profile picture of the author star lit
    Thanks Paul

    Not just for "policing" this forum, but also for alerting new members and reminding older members of the potential dangers a forum of this magnitude offers.

    I remember the first time I got scammed by a fellow warrior running a $97 WSO.
    This was quite some time back about two years ago and I was fairly new so I had no idea on what "credibilty" meant.Obviously wrt being a warrior and wso's.
    But Good 'Ol Bev knew better and challenged this guy regarding his wso.

    Needless to say this warrior followed the same modus operandi that Paul mentions.
    He started a new WSO under a different UN and then switched and gave a glowing testimonial immediately. He was immediately called out by Michael Tracy (if I remember correctly) and banned.

    But that was one of the most expensive eye opening, brain jolting lessons I learnt.
    Think rationally rather than emotionally.
    That, and listening to, and following the advice of other CREDIBLE warriors.

    Naima
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      You know, a bait thread once a month or so would help. I've noticed that every single time Paul (or others, but I've noticed it more with Paul's) posts a thread with a warning or suggestions, like the Being a Better Moderator thread - we always have several little cockroaches who just can't resist posting. Apparently, they think that they must do so or we will know they're suspect, so they swarm in with their one line "thanks for the share", "good info", etc.

      Love how they make themselves obvious...lol.

      Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Josh is right.

    We ALL know you can become filty rich by selling an item for $.05! HERSHEY did it! GRANTED, that was a while ago, but they gave as much as they could and chocolate was pretty expensive. We ALL know you can become filthy rich selling items at a very high cost, look at rolex, rolls royce, etc...

    So WHY really say anything about income? It makes sense if you are talking about individual LABOR, like a job, because an income of say $40K is ALWAYS $40K! But the idea of a computer gets rid of that restriction. $.05 is $5,000,000 if you do it 100,000,000 times.

    And, frankly, anyone can say they make a billion dollars. Look at sam walton. I heard that even after he was a multi billionare, he was still thrifty, etc... I have known POOR people that looked RICH! Ironically, claims are often like what feminists say about men with huge/sporty cars. Those that crow the most often have the least. Of course, the feminists are sometimes wrong. Some guys just like the power, comfort, etc.... Nothing is 100%, but SOMETIMES....

    I WOULD say more, but won't for a number of reasons.

    BTW I bought a book a LONG time ago. It was apparently the ONLY book on internet marketing then. It was certainly the only one widely sold. Even the domain name was very meaningful and to the point. Outside of a few changes by places like google, limitations added because of spammers, some things I personally considered dumb tricks(Like a guy that created banners to look like windows messages), and the idea of new types of sites that are around today(Like paypal, facebook, twitter, etc...), it is STILL worthwhile. It was probably worthwhile for over a DECADE. I wish I hadn't bought any of the other books(which seemed like cheap copies, or summaries of the first for the most part), I certainly would have been richer.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Liam Hamer
      I just had a pretty unsettling experience on here myself. I'm sure others were aware of it as the thread is now gone, but a new member(all his posts were today) was giving away a Warriors work claiming it was 'free PLR products'. Of course, until you downloaded, unzipped and opened the files, you wouldn't know this. As soon as I did, I smelled a rat and alerted the Warrior who was the victim of it. I've deleted all the files I downloaded too, as I hope others have.

      This kind of thing disgusts me, but thankfully we have such a great community here that can nip such things in the bud almost straight away
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    • Profile picture of the author bettersocial
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post


      And, frankly, anyone can say they make a billion dollars. Look at sam walton. I heard that even after he was a multi billionare, he was still thrifty, etc... I have known POOR people that looked RICH! Ironically, claims are often like what feminists say about men with huge/sporty cars. Those that crow the most often have the least. Of course, the feminists are sometimes wrong. Some guys just like the power, comfort, etc.... Nothing is 100%, but SOMETIMES....
      Forget Sam Walton, look at Warren Buffett. The man lives in a ****ty little house, yet he could buy a few countries if he wanted to.

      As per IM, I recently read an eBook in which the author made no income claims, had no obnoxious pics of him on a beach (which probably gave him a low conversion rate...what's the obsession with "beach vacations" in most sales threads?), but the information in the eBook is better, packed with more new techniques than I could learn in 6 months.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Of course, the feminists are sometimes wrong
        are not! We've done the testing....
        Signature

        Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          are not! We've done the testing....

          ARE TOO, INFINITY! 8-)
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by sashas View Post

            Since WF is a professional forum, can't there be some sort of ID proof requirement before someone is given a membership?

            A simple picture of your driver's license should be enough.

            WF should also make it compulsory to associate a facebook account with your wf account..
            sashas, there are a couple of flaws in these ideas...

            First, there are many thousands of members in this forum, even though only a small portion of them ever post. So checking IDs, especially from many different countries, would be a huge drain on resources even if it was practical.

            Second, a picture of a driver's license would be incredibly easy to fake. Even the license itself is pretty easy if you don't know what a real one looks like.

            Third, no one ever lies on Facebook, right?

            Put these in place and you give the scammers another tool that looks like credibility. "I can't be faking - look at my ID card and Facebook page. Could I be faking if I have to have those to get in?"

            Back when I lived in Nebraska, there was a smart cookie that got himself in trouble with his home business. To make things easier for bars, convenience stores and the like to check IDs for under age alcohol purchases, the background of the ID photo was red if you were too young, blue if you were old enough. Easy, right?

            Well, the license itself was a paper printout laminated in plastic, so this clever fellow taught himself how to cut the laminate, extract the photo, scan it and use Photoshop to change the color of the background and the birth date. Print, replace and reseal the laminate. Bingo, new ID.

            On payment, the buyer would get the new ID along with instructions to report the old (now altered) one as lost. That way, they had a real ID for the authorities (traffic stops and such) and a fake one to show cashiers, bouncers and bar tenders who had been conditioned to look for the red background when carding people.

            EDIT:

            Just to finish the story, when this kid got caught, the uproar among parents caused the state to change the actual structure of the DL to something much harder to alter...
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            • Profile picture of the author bettersocial
              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

              sashas, there are a couple of flaws in these ideas...

              First, there are many thousands of members in this forum, even though only a small portion of them ever post. So checking IDs, especially from many different countries, would be a huge drain on resources even if it was practical.

              Second, a picture of a driver's license would be incredibly easy to fake. Even the license itself is pretty easy if you don't know what a real one looks like.
              Interesting comments John, and I have to agree with you that in hindsight, an ID proof isn't the best solution. Having seen tons of fake IDs as a college student, I can tell you that they are pretty easy to fake; just didn't think a scammer out to make a quick buck would put in that much effort to actually go out and make a fake ID.


              I said Facebook because you can often judge if someone's Facebook's account is genuine or not (lots of friends from same college/school/company, most friends in the same age group, etc.), especially if you have a good eye. It won't be fool proof (nothing is), but it would be another weapon to make it a little bit more difficult to spam and scam.

              Other than that, seems to me that the only solution is to exercise caution and take everything with a pinch of salt.
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Originally Posted by sashas View Post

                Interesting comments John, and I have to agree with you that in hindsight, an ID proof isn't the best solution. Having seen tons of fake IDs as a college student, I can tell you that they are pretty easy to fake; just didn't think a scammer out to make a quick buck would put in that much effort to actually go out and make a fake ID.
                The thing is, if all you need is a picture of an ID, you don't actually have to make the physical card. Think of all the phony Clickbank and Paypal account shots floating around. Plus, like fake IDs for college kids, if there's a market, there will be a supplier.

                Originally Posted by sashas View Post

                I said Facebook because you can often judge if someone's Facebook's account is genuine or not (lots of friends from same college/school/company, most friends in the same age group, etc.), especially if you have a good eye. It won't be fool proof (nothing is), but it would be another weapon to make it a little bit more difficult to spam and scam.
                Fair enough, if you are actively using Facebook. It's kind of like looking at a user account's performance here, just in a different venue. And if someone does post a FB account on a profile, it gives you one more thing to check.

                On the other hand, you have people like me. If you check my FB page, you'll see a couple of "friends" and not much activity by me. So it won't tell you much...

                Originally Posted by sashas View Post

                Other than that, seems to me that the only solution is to exercise caution and take everything with a pinch of salt.
                DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

                The best approach is to be aware of what the bad guys do and how they do it, then exercise common sense.

                sashas, you seem to be a pretty smart cookie. If more people would use their brains for more than keeping their ears apart, the world would be in better shape...
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sashas View Post

        Forget Sam Walton, look at Warren Buffett. The man lives in a ****ty little house, yet he could buy a few countries if he wanted to.

        As per IM, I recently read an eBook in which the author made no income claims, had no obnoxious pics of him on a beach (which probably gave him a low conversion rate...what's the obsession with "beach vacations" in most sales threads?), but the information in the eBook is better, packed with more new techniques than I could learn in 6 months.
        Sam walton was ****SO**** rich that he had a large family, split the shares up, and MANY are like in the top 30. Buffet is rich, but not THAT rich.

        The book I spoke about was perhaps the first and HIS claim to fame, other than being perhaps first, is that he sold a book on buying cars(IIRC), ironically, he DIED on a race track. Until that book, he did NOTHING with selling any money making ideas to anyone. And it covered how to set the business up and who maybe to use, and not any "sell this item and make X100,000 like I did" sort of deal.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      J
      Ironically, claims are often like what feminists say about men with huge/sporty cars.
      Steve
      What...that they get bad mileage and have "low emissions standards"?

      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      If you see these guys who suddenly appear in the forum posting one liner after one liner in every thread they see like they are running a marathon but where the posts seem to be a little incoherent as if they did not really read the discussion they are posting a response to...
      This is the same exact thing that pops up on my blogs as comments on posts...crap like "Thank you for the wonderful information My brother will be greatly interest. Please continue to not stop writing this great work!" For some reason, Akismet doesn't seem to catch them all, no matter how much I try to train it. It's painfully obvious when someone is doing this, and (at least on my blogs) they always link to Viagra. This, of course, is kind of ironic since they're all such dic- oh look, another quote:

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      The people who come here and post ridiculous income plans, etc - can't succeed if other members here will accept that there is no magic bullet or unknown secret that will pick them up off the floor financially and move them to a castle by the end of the month.

      No matter where you are offline or online - if you are gullible there will be someone there ready to take advantage of it.

      kay
      Preach it, sister, preach it.

      I've only been here a short time (well, a short "non-lurking" time), but this rash of crap has been one reason I don't want to post a WSO right now. I think I'm going to head to the Classifieds and/or Warriors For Hire forums instead.

      Thanks, Paul et al...I've been a moderator on other forums, and it's always without fail a complete PITA that still seems worth it, somehow.

      - Dave "Changing His Avatar Pic To Me Holding A Sign Saying 'I'm Not Fake'" Hughes
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  • Profile picture of the author bettersocial
    Since WF is a professional forum, can't there be some sort of ID proof requirement before someone is given a membership?

    A simple picture of your driver's license should be enough.

    WF should also make it compulsory to associate a facebook account with your wf account..
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    Thanks for the heads up, but I was always told that Trolls live under bridges only? Now they live on the web too? That Sucks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lady
    Wow!
    The words enlightening and discerning are not enough. I am truly at a loss for words. I feel as though my eldest brother took me by the hand and said, "I am with you, but you still need to be cautious and here is how." Thank you Paul.
    Signature

    Best Wishes Lee

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  • Profile picture of the author Dherm
    Thanks Paul. Being a newbie I feel we are most likely to be stung as we are green. Thanks to guys like you who watch out for the scamers and as they say 'fore warned is fore armed'.
    Regards. Dherm
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  • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
    Ethical Bump

    (Out of sight, out of mind.)

    Elmer Hurlstone
    Senior--In more ways than one--Warrior
    Alluding to another thread in the same vein as this one: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...r-avatars.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    "Bamp Bamp Bamp... another one bits the dust!"

    If you see these guys who suddenly appear in the forum posting one liner after one liner in every thread they see like they are running a marathon but where the posts seem to be a little incoherent as if they did not really read the discussion they are posting a response to... check their profile and posting history to see if it consists of only this type of strange behavior.

    If it is obvious that they are posting one liners with the only purpose being to boost post count in this way report one of their posts using the report post using the "report post" triangle icon (bottom of their post below their avatar info) and suggest someone check into their profile and posting history if it consists of nothing but incoherent one liners.

    We just zapped one doing just that... one liner posts that were generic enough to almost sound like they were replying in the discussion but incoherent enough to be obvious they had not read the threads they were replying on and had ulterior motives.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author UnstoppableJoy
    Thanks Paul

    That advice is excellent and I use a version of it on every video sales pitch I see.

    If a pitch starts out with "I was flat broke - now check out my overpriced house, look at my fancy car and boat, check out my vacations, yadda yadda yadda" it is obvious to me that they are target marketing to the desperate and I immediately leave and mentally thank them for saving me the time and effort of slogging through the next 20 minutes.

    Joe Karbo's "Lazy Man's Way to Riches" approach will never die. No disrespect to Joe of course, he was a true original.
    Signature

    Ed Osworth - The Joy Professor - Author of "Unstoppable Joy - A Happier You in 12 Simple Steps"
    $15.95 at Amazon or get Your Free Copy at http://JoyForFree.com

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