is this APPROPRIATE or OVER THE TOP

52 replies
Warriors - I need your opinion:

I've reviewed a current WSO for various legal concerns and found it consists almost entirely of some of the most blatant and intentionally fraudulent and illegal conduct I have ever seen in a WSO.

Of course, the seller on the WSO thread says "there is absolutely nothing illegal involved that could get you banned..."

Hmmm, my law degree versus a prior promoter of 2-up (aka pyramid) schemes. Wonder who is right?

Much of it is old CPA black hat stuff. There was a complaint last year by a Warrior who had tried such tactics about his accounts being banned and that he was being threatened with major copyright infringement litigation.

Unquestionably, that's what would happen to anyone trying these techniques.

Not surprisingly, the seller does not have any verifiable income claims. No known websites. Personally, I think it's all BS and he's never done any of this, but is regurgitating old crap ideas found in black hat CPA forums. It is tempting to let anyone dumb enough to buy this be ripped, lose their accounts, and risk lawsuits and even a criminal action.

But, they'd probably blame the Warrior Forum for letting this WSO proceed.

The real kicker is that no one is going to make money from this

There is going to be a post made on the WSO thread - assuming the WSO is not first deleted.

I'm contemplating putting the following graphic at the top of my comments:



What do you think?

Fair graphic to grab attention to very serious legal issues?
Unnecessary given the blistering review I'll be providing?
Just report this to Allen and see if he bans the seller?
#top
  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    I would simply post your opinions and walk.

    Without a moderator tag you really do not have any authority to call anyone on anything and that goes for anyone here or anywhere else, all you can do is hope your good reputation amongst others carries weight.

    All that can happen by placing a huge banner effectively calling someone a scammer is that you will give yourself a reputation as a troll, and get into a flaming match and though funny for a demographic of forums they are never good

    EDIT:
    What I would consider a red flag for anyone reading the WSO is the statement that "there is absolutely nothing illegal involved that could get you banned..." That alone would get my suspicions piqued.
    Signature
    “Thinking is easy, Acting is difficult
    And to put one's thoughts into action is the most difficult thing in the world ~ Goethe”
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586124].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    I think the graphic's too much. It's FUNNY, but still - too much.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586134].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    If you didnt buy your posts might be deleted. Well probably not yours though since youre an attorney but mine got deleted when I warned people AND backed it up with video proof.
    Signature
    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

    SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586150].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    Contacting Allen/Forum Admin is probably your best way to go, let him decide whether to take any action, either by closing down his ability to post in that section or whatever he deems necessary if what he is doing is highly illegal.

    Obviously no reputable admin wants to have his forum tarnished with one bad thread, because that is like a big neon light for everyone else to have a go.
    Signature
    “Thinking is easy, Acting is difficult
    And to put one's thoughts into action is the most difficult thing in the world ~ Goethe”
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586153].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lady
    Yah the banner is a stretch. Loose the banner and do more research. It is better to be knowledgable than to get fined or blacklisted
    Signature

    Best Wishes Lee

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586164].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TermsB
    Personally I don't think the banner is too over the top. You bought the WSO thus you have the right to post on it. It's only fair to try to save other people from wasting their time, money and CPA accounts.
    Signature

    Treat others well for no reason other than bringing a smile to a stranger.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586345].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by TermsB View Post

      Personally I don't think the banner is too over the top. You bought the WSO thus you have the right to post on it. It's only fair to try to save other people from wasting their time, money and CPA accounts.
      I'm not sure if he bought it or not. In his OP he says,

      I've reviewed a current WSO for various legal concerns
      Can't tell if he bought it, or if the seller gave him a review copy and asked for a legal opinion, or if he's just going on what he read in the seller's thread, or something else...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586366].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author George Wright


    Sorry
    Signature
    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586449].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Ok - Brian - if everyone is against the banner (I liked it only it's a bit BIG) - just post in red and bold:p

      do not have any authority
      ha ha ha...ha ha And that's all I have to say about it:p
      Signature

      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.
      It takes nothing away from a human to be kind to an animal.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586469].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author VegasGreg
    I think the WSO section NEEDS big ass banners like that. 2 of the last 7 WSOs I have bought or reviewed also told people it was ok to break the law, as the claimed there was nothing blackhat or unethical about it.

    I have seen a lot of people leave their reviews and cautions, but then you keep seeing others (mainly newbs) still buying and saying what great information as they probably don't read the entire post. A BIG BANNER would definitely help warn them in advance.

    After all, this forum IS about helping one another, not about helping someone lose their business.
    Signature

    Greg Schueler - Wordpress Fanatic... Living The Offline Marketing Dream...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586500].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    Brian, I agree with you completely, there are lots of people who are getting suckered by people who have no backing or expereince, I liked your legally varified ideas, but WSO are becoming nickle and time and people are banking on #s, so one doing anything.

    Talk to Allan and the MODs and thats as far as you or I can take it, we are members, we dont run this place my friend
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1586508].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1591727].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Brian,
    thanks for your help in reviewing this WSO. I should have been more forcefull I now realize, but not being a lawyer or an expert in CPA didn't know if I was missing something fundamental. Hopefully this will help people (like me) learn to do their due diligence.

    best,
    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1591737].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    There's a big difference between black hat and illegal. One gets you banned from a site, the other gets you fined and sent to jail....

    peace,
    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606153].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606189].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    I like the banner.

    And like Kay, I had to laugh at the comment about "no authority"

    And it also come back to the "Awarded the title of WSO of the Day" if warriorpro had reviewed it as is claimed, then he is also promoting things which are breaking the law.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606262].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    While I love the banner, I think you made the right choice in not using it.

    Not so much because it's "over the top", but because it might be used to confuse the issue. The seller could complain that you are making a personal attack and deliberately trying to undermine the WSO, etc.

    Of course, there would be nothing stopping you from using a statement like Paul used, along with a warning printed Big, Red and Bold...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606402].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Brian:

      Big bold letters will suffice. Whatever you use, I strongly feel that a warning
      MUST be issued on that thread.

      If you have reviewed the WSO in question, then you have EVERY right to
      post your concerns.

      And the sooner the better before unsuspecting victims have their businesses
      seriously damaged.

      Also, I would report the WSO to the help desk and let them handle it as well
      IF they choose to.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606416].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Brian,

        A bit over the top, I think. You might consider starting your posts on such topics with a standard line, something like, "While this is not to be considered legal advice, I am a licensed attorney with experience in this field." Etc, including whatever is appropriate for such a disclaimer.


        Paul
        I think this should do it..Subtle but effective
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606450].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          I'm ambivalent on the banner. I think, though, that the big, bold, red letters would suffice.

          I think it definitely needs something to stand out. On some WSOs, the comments span multiple pages, so it can be easy to overlook a single voice in the wilderness. So, grabbing people's attention with something big, bold and red would certainly help.

          And, after having gone through a WSO with 14 pages of comments just yesterday, I'd welcome big, bold red letters that draw my attention to something important like that.

          Especially so in cases where the seller claims the techniques are not illegal or infringing, but an attorney (or, if this is the WSO I think it is, anyone with a bit of common sense) knows otherwise.
          Signature

          Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606529].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Is it possible there needs to be a disclaimer at the bottom of any WSO of the day that explains HOW this "award" is given?

          The inference is this product has been recommended by the Warrior Forum and I'm sure many embers see it exactly that way. I think that might raise concerns.

          WSO Pro is an excellent tool for those who run frequent WSO's. I like what it does - but I've wondered about the designation of "WSO of the day". From the ad for this tool....

          Each "WSO of the Day" will have been personally reviewed by us and/or have been selling well and getting great reviews from Warriors here in the WSO forum.
          So who reviewed this one? Or was it based on a claim of "500 sales"? Is consideration given to what color hat the product wears or legality of the system sold?

          This is being referred to as an "award" - yet it is only available to those who use the paid delivery system and who are then chosen from that group. Anyone running a WSO with their own delivery system cannot be chosen for this "award" - and that would seem to call for a disclaimer to me.

          kay


          EDIT: Just to be clear - I think WSO Pro is great - and the "of the day" isn't a bad idea. Just think the reason for the designation (cheaper price for 24 hrs) should be very clear.
          Signature

          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.
          It takes nothing away from a human to be kind to an animal.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606680].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            ...I'm sure many embers see it exactly that way.
            I've always wondered why some threads have fires on them...

            Good point about the disclaimer though. I mean, I think I knew all that, but had forgotten, as I'm sure many others had.
            Signature

            Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

            Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606718].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Steven,
    I've done both in - posted in the thread and also opened a help desk ticket. To be honest, I don't know what else to do.
    respectfully,
    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606448].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    If you did not purchase the product or was not asked to review the product, you will violate WSO TOS by posting anything about the product including your banner. The banner, IMO, is a childish showboating idea at any rate.

    If you don't like the WSO, don't buy it. It was approved by the forum, so if there's problems with customers, they can complain legitimately in the WSO thread.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1606976].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      If you don't like the WSO, don't buy it. It was approved by the forum...
      The number of WSOs that get locked after they've been "approved" indicates that we shouldn't take that approval as any kind of endorsement by forum management of what's being sold...

      That's not a criticism of anybody, just pointing it out...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607139].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

        The number of WSOs that get locked after they've been "approved" indicates that we shouldn't take that approval as any kind of endorsement by forum management of what's being sold...

        That's not a criticism of anybody, just pointing it out...
        I realize that they don't endorse it, but once it is live and paid for, the TOS apply.

        Here are the TOS

        UPDATED: Anyone caught trying to purposefully harm another persons WSO will be removed from this forum permanently. If you bought the WSO you have a right to comment on it. However, if you have not bought it you have no right to say anything at all about it. You have no basis on which to even give an opinion one way or the other.

        If you think someone is trying to harm your WSO on purpose just PM admin here in the forum.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607182].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I realize that they don't endorse it, but once it is live and paid for, the TOS apply.

          Here are the TOS

          UPDATED: Anyone caught trying to purposefully harm another persons WSO will be removed from this forum permanently. If you bought the WSO you have a right to comment on it. However, if you have not bought it you have no right to say anything at all about it. You have no basis on which to even give an opinion one way or the other.

          If you think someone is trying to harm your WSO on purpose just PM admin here in the forum.
          In that case, does that mean that those that received a free review copy cannot comment because they didn't buy the WSO?
          Signature

          Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607263].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

            In that case, does that mean that those that received a free review copy cannot comment because they didn't buy the WSO?
            If the WSO owner has given a free review copy, they've given the reviewer permission to review the product and they intend that the reviewer will review it in the WSO thread.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607286].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              If the WSO owner has given a free review copy, they've given the reviewer permission to review the product and they intend that the reviewer will review it in the WSO thread.
              The wording of the WSO TOS you posted does not seem to allow for that exception.

              And, my opinion is that the TOS are meant to protect a WSO owner from malicious harm, not to protect a WSO owner from legitimate complaints as to the legality of the methods espoused by the WSO.
              Signature

              Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

              Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607332].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                The wording of the WSO TOS you posted does not seem to allow for that exception.

                And, my opinion is that the TOS are meant to protect a WSO owner from malicious harm, not to protect a WSO owner from legitimate complaints as to the legality of the methods espoused by the WSO.
                Well, that's subject to opinion and that's exactly what the support forum would be for. You can spin the TOS any way you want, but if some little troll comes into mine and suggests there is something illegal or unethical going on, I will report them.

                In this case, there might be legitimate concern, but to say that you can violate the TOS because you don't think the TOS were meant to protect this particular person is wrong. All that is necessary is to open a support ticket and any concerns would be addressed in the manner they see fit.

                For example, another TOS is that you can't post a WSO that violates the TOS of another site. Of course this is being done all the time. There are many WSOs that tell people how to get around anti-spam TOS on sites or just outright how to spam them. While Allen didn't mention WSOs that violate laws, I assume that he might want that included in the restrictions.

                The point is ... the TOS are there for a very good reason and aren't really subject to interpretation. They're pretty self-explanatory. To say that it's alright in this case because you think it is ... just isn't right. If you're not happy with the response from the support forum or the lack of response, message them again.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607379].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  The point is ... the TOS are there for a very good reason and aren't really subject to interpretation.
                  Yet, your interpretation was that people that were given free review copies can post their comments in the thread, while the TOS spells out that only those who have purchased the WSO may comment.
                  Signature

                  Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

                  Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607407].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Joe118
                    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                    Yet, your interpretation was that people that were given free review copies can post their comments in the thread, while the TOS spells out that only those who have purchased the WSO may comment.
                    That's a very good point, and why I've started refusing offers to review WSOs recently.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607412].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                    Yet, your interpretation was that people that were given free review copies can post their comments in the thread, while the TOS spells out that only those who have purchased the WSO may comment.
                    My interpretation of anything doesn't matter. I only assume that it's ok because it's done on most of the WSOs. That doesn't mean that it is ok and it doesn't mean that just because reviews are for all practical purposes, allowed, that negative comments by people who have not been invited to review or who have not purchased the WSO will also be overlooked.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607449].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      My interpretation of anything doesn't matter. I only assume that it's ok because it's done on most of the WSOs. That doesn't mean that it is ok and it doesn't mean that just because reviews are for all practical purposes, allowed, that negative comments by people who have not been invited to review or who have not purchased the WSO will also be overlooked.
                      Well, then I hope the OP buys and reviews a whole lot of WSOs, because I'm not sure I'll want to trust them anymore. It's not worth spending $8.97 (or whatever) on a WSO to end up with a $50,000 copyright infringement fine.

                      I don't view a lawyer pointing out that a certain method is illegal or infringing as being a "negative" comment. Certainly, a WSO seller could avoid such a "negative" comment by not advocating anything that is illegal or infringing.
                      Signature

                      Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

                      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607566].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        Well, then I hope the OP buys and reviews a whole lot of WSOs, because I'm not sure I'll want to trust them anymore. It's not worth spending $8.97 (or whatever) on a WSO to end up with a $50,000 copyright infringement fine.

                        I don't view a lawyer pointing out that a certain method is illegal or infringing as being a "negative" comment. Certainly, a WSO seller could avoid such a "negative" comment by not advocating anything that is illegal or infringing.
                        If I were really unhappy with a WSO, I'd just ask for a refund. You're too smart to end up with any consequences from following the instructions in a WSO if the instructions tell you to do something that is illegal. This is an Internet Marketing forum and from what I've seen, there are ethical marketers and there are snake oil salesmen. This forum has it's share of both. Anyone under the illusion that all WSOs will be ethical or that all marketers are ethical, is deluded. As for making a mission of "saving everyone" from the not so ethical marketers, it really is a waste of time. Just report it and move on is my best advice.

                        I can see a huge mess in the WSOs if crusades were allowed by people who had not purchased the WSOs. It would be nothing but one big flame fest.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607606].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          If I were really unhappy with a WSO, I'd just ask for a refund. You're too smart to end up with any consequences from following the instructions in a WSO if the instructions tell you to do something that is illegal.
                          The problem isn't what I know to be legal, it's what I don't know.

                          And, if one area of advice is something I know to be wrong, then everything else becomes suspect.

                          And, if the seller is unethical enough to espouse doing things that are illegal or infringe upon others' rights, then that lowers the chances of actually getting a refund. And if I have to escalate matters, that's just an additional hassle.

                          Best just to avoid any WSO that doesn't have the recommendation of someone I know and trust.

                          Which is easy enough to do.

                          But, what really really gets under my skin is that someone is advocating and promoting and making money off a product that advocates copyright infringement. As a copyright holder, that irks me. So, if those types of WSOs go down in flames, burn, baby, burn.
                          Signature

                          Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

                          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607666].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                            The problem isn't what I know to be legal, it's what I don't know.

                            And, if one area of advice is something I know to be wrong, then everything else becomes suspect.

                            And, if the seller is unethical enough to espouse doing things that are illegal or infringe upon others' rights, then that lowers the chances of actually getting a refund. And if I have to escalate matters, that's just an additional hassle.

                            Best just to avoid any WSO that doesn't have the recommendation of someone I know and trust.

                            Which is easy enough to do.

                            But, what really really gets under my skin is that someone is advocating and promoting and making money off a product that advocates copyright infringement. As a copyright holder, that irks me. So, if those types of WSOs go down in flames, burn, baby, burn.

                            I seriously doubt that you are that naieve that you are going to do something illegal because a WSO told you to. If you are, that's unfortunate and you should avoid buying them. But my sense that this is personal ... a crusade seems much more valid now.

                            Who isn't a copyright owner in this forum. Most of us are. As for going to jail ... copyright infringement isn't going to land you in jail. It's a civil offense and can land you with a big fine.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607728].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              But my sense that this is personal ... a crusade seems much more valid now.
                              It's not personal and it's not a crusade. Just expressing my opinion. If it were personal, I would comment on the WSO thread itself. If it were a crusade, I would purchase the WSO and then post my comments on the WSO thread.
                              Signature

                              Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

                              Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607765].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I realize that they don't endorse it, but once it is live and paid for, the TOS apply.

          Here are the TOS

          UPDATED: Anyone caught trying to purposefully harm another persons WSO will be removed from this forum permanently. If you bought the WSO you have a right to comment on it. However, if you have not bought it you have no right to say anything at all about it. You have no basis on which to even give an opinion one way or the other.

          If you think someone is trying to harm your WSO on purpose just PM admin here in the forum.
          In your zeal to protect whoever this WSO seller is, you focused on the whether or not a reviewer bought and paid for a WSO. You glossed right over the idea of intent.

          In this case, someone who did purchase the WSO went through the normal activities - asking for clarifications, etc. - and took the further step of doing what we keep telling others to do when they have questions about the legalities of something. He actually asked a lawyer.

          Posting the findings of that examination as a warning to others hardly seems like an effort to "purposefully try to harm another's WSO" as I see it.

          Normally, I agree with a lot of what you say, but this time I think it's you who may be tilting at windmills...
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607837].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            In your zeal to protect whoever this WSO seller is, you focused on the whether or not a reviewer bought and paid for a WSO. You glossed right over the idea of intent.

            In this case, someone who did purchase the WSO went through the normal activities - asking for clarifications, etc. - and took the further step of doing what we keep telling others to do when they have questions about the legalities of something. He actually asked a lawyer.

            Posting the findings of that examination as a warning to others hardly seems like an effort to "purposefully try to harm another's WSO" as I see it.

            Normally, I agree with a lot of what you say, but this time I think it's you who may be tilting at windmills...

            I'm not protecting this particular WSO. I don't know who it is and don't care. My point is that the WSOs are paid advertisements, and they are protected by the TOS from trolls that not having purchased the WSO, would willfully harm it anyway.

            Why would they do this? I have many WSOs. When I first launched my first one, someone posted in the thread that I was selling sites without a developer's license for the theme and plugin I used. It was a bald faced lie, placed there by a competitor to discredit me because my sites were better than his. He even went so far as to contact support with the same accusation. I proved to support that this was false. There have been other attempts in my WSOs to falsely discredit me for the same reasons ... competitors.

            I am personally happy that there are TOS that provide protection to the people who shower this forum with their hard-earned twenty dollar bills.

            It's obvious to me that the people personally involved in this particular situation are on a crusade. There are two whole threads about it. That's overkill. Their cause may or may not be noble. I'm not familiar with the WSO and don't care to be. There are ways to deal with whatever problem they're having without violating TOS.

            Do they also get their panties in a bunch over every other scam posted in the WSO forum? Probably not. The TOS states that if you buy it you can review it. They don't state that if you buy it, you can get a second opinion to review it also. They can also contact support if someone has a problem with a WSO.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607956].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I'm not protecting this particular WSO. I don't know who it is and don't care. My point is that the WSOs are paid advertisements, and they are protected by the TOS from trolls that not having purchased the WSO, would willfully harm it anyway.

              Why would they do this? I have many WSOs. When I first launched my first one, someone posted in the thread that I was selling sites without a developer's license for the theme and plugin I used. It was a bald faced lie, placed there by a competitor to discredit me because my sites were better than his. He even went so far as to contact support with the same accusation. I proved to support that this was false. There have been other attempts in my WSOs to falsely discredit me for the same reasons ... competitors.

              I am personally happy that there are TOS that provide protection to the people who shower this forum with their hard-earned twenty dollar bills.

              It's obvious to me that the people personally involved in this particular situation are on a crusade. There are two whole threads about it. That's overkill. Their cause may or may not be noble. I'm not familiar with the WSO and don't care to be. There are ways to deal with whatever problem they're having without violating TOS.

              Do they also get their panties in a bunch over every other scam posted in the WSO forum? Probably not. The TOS states that if you buy it you can review it. They don't state that if you buy it, you can get a second opinion to review it also. They can also contact support if someone has a problem with a WSO.
              Ah, a reason for the fire in your eyes surfaces... Understandable.

              It does seem like we're talking about oranges and grapefruits here - similar but different.

              Jack (and Brian) were addressing the sale of information advocating breaking the law, without explaining that fact or the possible ramifications of doing so.

              You are talking about someone deliberately trying to sabotage you for commercial reasons.

              Personally, I think anyone who practices libel for fun and profit deserves the same seat by the eternal fire as those who advocate stealing - of which copyright infringement as discussed is a form.

              As I said, most of the time I agree with you on these issues. Even this time, we aren't back-to-back - just not eye-to-eye...
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1608007].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                Ah, a reason for the fire in your eyes surfaces... Understandable.
                lol ... there's always a reason. I really do try not to be just randomly contrary.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1608028].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Susan,
    I asked Brian to investigate as a lawyer. You may want to look at what others thought of his involvement in this thread:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ringement.html

    respectfully,
    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607066].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jacktackett View Post

      Susan,
      I asked Brian to investigate as a lawyer. You may want to look at what others thought of his involvement in this thread:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ringement.html

      respectfully,
      --Jack
      Not sure I understand your involvement. Is this your WSO? If the OP reviewed it because he was asked by the WSO owner or if he bought it himself, he has the right to post in the thread. If not, then he doesn't, according to TOS. He could just use the help desk and report it to a mod and leave it up to forum administration.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607116].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Lord
    I feel that the banner, whilst pursuing a noble cause, would enflame the situation.
    Like other Warriors here, i would just opt to drop an advisory PM in the first instance, then notify Admin/moderators.

    As sbucciarel kindly points out, you don't want to do anything to imperil your own Warrior account.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607272].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Susan,
    please read posts #34 and #37 in the above referenced post and let us know your thoughts then.

    To recap my previous posts:
    1. I purchased the WSO in question.
    2. I posted asking the seller to clarify some serious concerns I had.
    3. After the run around, I opened a support ticket
    4. After no response I started the thread.
    5. I went back and posted my concerns/warnings in the WSO thread.
    6. After Brian's response to my post, I took him up on his offer. A very generous offer and one for which he's now taking a lot of heat due to me. I am very appreciative of his efforts to protect fellow WF members.
    7. Here we are...

    respectfully,
    --Jack


    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ringement.html
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607325].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author samlb
    How about going directly to the source and see if he can recant. Say like "Ahh... the WSO looks interesting, but don't you think that some of the techniques could get you in jail - plus the people who buy the product... I know from my law degree that ****** phrase is and that method can kill you..."

    I like the banner.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607692].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ThomasShay
    I like the banner idea, but maybe a little smaller.
    Signature

    Thomas W. Shay
    Get Free Software to Save all your IM Marketing
    Information, passwords, usernames, login urls,
    hosting info, affiliate info and much much more.
    http://www.im-organizer.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1607700].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    I would think just posting a comment to that effect and sending a note to the moderators would be sufficient. Your job is to inform, not convence. Some of us are set in our beliefs and God himself would be called a liar if he were to confront us with the truth.

    Those of us who care would take your comment into consideration at least until the moderator terminated the WSO or allows it to continue.

    The big red banner expresses some of our frustrations with those who do these things, but it was a bit overboard.

    It is nice of you to care enough to alert those of us who will listen.

    Thanks
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1608817].message }}

Trending Topics