How I tricked the Rhodes Brothers, Robert Plank, and Jason Fladlien to teach me for free!

46 replies
I was going over the WSO forum and looking at various sales copy and really have enjoyed reading The Rhodes Brothers, Robert Plank, and Jason Fladlien's copy.

I really wanted to learn how they wrote copy so well and made me want to buy now. So I emailed the Rhodes brothers and simply asked. They gave me a great list of resources to look up.

But lets be honest, most of use are lazy (me to) and I need another couple of books in my library like I need another hole in my head.

The solution - I simply went and searched the WSO forum for every WSO put out by these three. Then I printed each of the sales letters out and started making a swipe file.

Now I can see how they write their headlines, bullet points, and more - all for free.

So instead of having to buy books I can just model a sales letter after one of theirs that catches my eye.

It helped me and hopefully it will help you as well.

Tim

PS: Rachel Rofe is another one to watch as well
#brothers #fladlien #free #jason #plank #rhodes #robert #teach #tricked
  • Profile picture of the author anjel144
    Are you going to turn your research into a WSO?
    Sounds like something to hang your hat on.
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  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi Tim,

    You'll find that in a couple of Jason's very competitively priced products, he teaches exactly how he learnt to write copy, and who's letters he picked apart to learn the process - he sells those 'pickings' too. He also sells the 'templates' he uses to construct his salesletters (not the web design template, the salesletter layout template he uses to write new ones.)

    I've bought them, studied them and I recommend them.
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    Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    I was going to post earlier actually about how well Robert Plank manages his list. He is certainly one to watch when it comes to email marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

      I was going to post earlier actually about how well Robert Plank manages his list. He is certainly one to watch when it comes to email marketing.
      But apparently not one to watch when it comes to courtesy,
      bang out of order.

      Robert, don't know if you're having a bad day or not, but
      nobody here has claimed to - or has suggested stealing
      copy.

      A swipe file, to learn from - emulate and eventually grow
      from is a GOOD thing. Imitation is apparently a compliment.

      If someone steals your stuff, fair enough - go for the jugular,
      but I'm sure you've heard of the phrase "standing on the
      shoulders of giants"
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

    I was going over the WSO forum and looking at various sales copy and really have enjoyed reading The Rhodes Brothers, Robert Plank, and Jason Fladlien's copy.

    I really wanted to learn how they wrote copy so well and made me want to buy now. So I emailed the Rhodes brothers and simply asked. They gave me a great list of resources to look up.

    But lets be honest, most of use are lazy (me to) and I need another couple of books in my library like I need another hole in my head.

    The solution - I simply went and searched the WSO forum for every WSO put out by these three. Then I printed each of the sales letters out and started making a swipe file.

    Now I can see how they write their headlines, bullet points, and more - all for free.

    So instead of having to buy books I can just model a sales letter after one of theirs that catches my eye.

    It helped me and hopefully it will help you as well.

    Tim

    PS: Rachel Rofe is another one to watch as well
    Tim, I hear you loud and clear and it's a good place to START......but.....having a swipe file doesn't necessarily teach you the logic and reasoning on WHY they may have written a certain headline, opener, or emotional trigger the way they did or why they chose a certain format.

    But it's a good start. Really good sales copy isn't as easy to dissect as some people think. I've been writing copy for nearly two decades and even I get it wrong sometimes.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Hum, Tim Castleman, Jason Fladlien, Robert Plank, and the Rhodes Brothers....gosh these names sound vaguely familiar for some reason

    An excellent point and I can't agree with you more Tim - in fact at my recap of the event at our local mastermind group it was stressed to get and keep a swipe file.

    Hopefully we can talk all of you guys into coming back and presenting at the 3rd annual event.

    It'll probably be held just about the time we get the DVDs ready from the second event

    best,
    --Jack
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    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Originally Posted by jacktackett View Post

      Hum, Tim Castleman, Jason Fladlien, Robert Plank, and the Rhodes Brothers....gosh these names sound vaguely familiar for some reason

      An excellent point and I can't agree with you more Tim - in fact at my recap of the event at our local mastermind group it was stressed to get and keep a swipe file.

      Hopefully we can talk all of you guys into coming back and presenting at the 3rd annual event.

      It'll probably be held just about the time we get the DVDs ready from the second event

      best,
      --Jack

      Jack -

      Let me know when and where and I'm in.

      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Hi Tim,

    Thanks for sharing your find..

    Another similar idea would be to visit clickbank's marketplace
    and check out the trending products. Look at the sales
    copy and you know the rest

    @Rod

    I was lucky to have watched a video presentation of some
    researchers who focused on landing pages. They found out
    that most of the time clarity trumps persuasion..

    What this actually means is that while some of us are searching
    for the magical triggers, the hypnotic words, the right words to
    put in there to subconsciously put people under our spell and
    open their wallets, there are those that are just designing
    clean and clear copies that sell.

    However, talk is cheap so here is the link to the
    video:

    http://www.marketingexperiments.com/...ersuasion.html

    It was first posted by fellow warrior Michael Hiles

    All the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
    Don't forget Clayton Makepeace, enormous free resources including this -

    FREE Swipe File | The Total Package
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    “Strategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.” – Old Japanese proverb -

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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    Are you going to turn your research into a WSO?
    Sounds like something to hang your hat on.
    That would definitely be a VERY bad idea.

    Hum, Tim Castleman, Jason Fladlien, Robert Plank, and the Rhodes Brothers....gosh these names sound vaguely familiar for some reason
    Jack, good to know that speaking at one of your events means someone else is going to rip off our sales copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Robert -

      Do you really think I or anyone else is going to steal your copy?

      Lets be honest most people are too lazy to even take the suggestions given here and do anything. Not to mention most people don't sell the same stuff you do.

      What they could do is look at the structure of the sales letter. Headline, way to write bullets, how you justify price, etc.

      If anyone steals your copy outright then that is wrong.

      Enjoy the weekend.

      Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      Jack, good to know that speaking at one of your events means someone else is going to rip off our sales copy.
      I guess you guys don't have any "swipe files" and that people looking at your copy could never draw any similarities to someone elses copy? lol

      Especially considering this:


      You'll find that in a couple of Jason's very competitively priced products, he teaches exactly how he learnt to write copy, and who's letters he picked apart to learn the process - he sells those 'pickings' too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      Jack, good to know that speaking at one of your events means someone else is going to rip off our sales copy.
      That's a completely unfair remark and Jack doesn't deserve it!

      The fact that you and the others listed in the title were speakers at the event organized by Jack - has nothing to do with what Tim said.

      I guess he could have picked other sales pages, too, from the WSO section because - let's be honest - there are also other good copywriters there.

      I guess your post is just an ego trip...
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi,

        This thread is quite helpful for anyone pondering whether these events are worth the effort. :rolleyes:

        If I feel a need to be exposed to this amount of arrogance, I can just pop into the copywriting forum for a couple of minutes and get my fix there instead - saves on time and airfare.
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        Roger Davis

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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          Hi,

          This thread is quite helpful for anyone pondering whether these events are worth the effort. :rolleyes:

          If I feel a need to be exposed to this amount of arrogance, I can just pop into the copywriting forum for a couple of minutes and get my fix there instead - saves on time and airfare.
          Maybe Mr. Taylor will go next year to discipline those who get out of hand as he does in the CW forum.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
            Guys and Gals -

            Don't be put off by Roberts comments. That seminar changed my life - seriously. I met Dennis Becker and as a result we did a JV that brought in a lot of cash for the both of us.

            Not to mention I met the Rhodes brothers, Willie C, and a ton of other people.

            Robert's presentation made me over a grand in a single weekend and Kevin's advice on product creation changed my outlook forever.

            I owe it all to Jack and that is why whenever I can I will always speak at any event he wants me to be a part of it.

            You need to be part of the next one - if you don't you are missing out on thousands.

            Tim
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            There is more to writing a sales letter than just studying swipe files.

            Without getting into a long spiel about this (you all know how long I can
            talk) a swipe file is nothing more than a template or format. Sure, you can
            see how the letter flows from headline to subhead to intro paragraph to
            story to bullets and on and on.

            But here is what you WON'T get from a swipe file UNLESS you are going to
            sell the same type of product to the same target market.

            You won't get the reasons why these things are done.

            A good copywriter (and this is why they are paid the big bucks) will totally
            research the market to see EXACTLY what it is that pushes these people's
            buttons.

            What are their problems?

            What are their biggest fears?

            What motivates them?

            What are they looking for?

            And when I say, what are they looking for, I'm not talking about features
            of a product. I'm talking about what benefits they're looking for. Many
            people really don't understand what a benefit is and how deep they go.

            For example, a sales letter for a PC.

            Feature: This PC has a 4 gig processor.
            Benefit: You'll be able to do your work faster.
            The REAL Benefit: You'll have more time to do the things you WANT to do.

            You can't dig into the inner being of a prospect from a swipe file. All you
            can get is a template.

            And...different templates work differently for different niches.

            Take a look at some of the best performing sales letters for niches that
            are miles apart. You will notice quite a few styles.

            But they all tap into that one thing that the prospect is looking for.

            If writing sales letters from swipe files was that easy, we'd all be Clayton
            Makepeace's.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
              Steve -

              You'd have to be an idiot to think that a couple of hundred pages of a swipe file could turn you into a world class copywriter.

              I can't tell you how many hundreds if not thousands of dollars I've spent on copywriting this and that.

              But for me, I'd rather see sales letters that have brought in thousands of dollars by people who I know make 5 figures a month. That's all.

              Robert doesn't want people to steal his copy and neither do I.

              Just another tool in the toolkit.

              Tim
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

                Steve -

                You'd have to be an idiot to think that a couple of hundred pages of a swipe file could turn you into a world class copywriter.

                I can't tell you how many hundreds if not thousands of dollars I've spent on copywriting this and that.

                But for me, I'd rather see sales letters that have brought in thousands of dollars by people who I know make 5 figures a month. That's all.

                Robert doesn't want people to steal his copy and neither do I.

                Just another tool in the toolkit.

                Tim

                Absolutely, as part of your study, this is a great thing to do. In fact,
                many copywriting coaches have you write out old sales letters to get a
                feel for how they flow and what makes them so good.

                They're just one piece of the puzzle.
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                • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                  Hi Tim,

                  Guys and Gals -

                  Don't be put off by Roberts comments.
                  It isn't just Robert.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    Lets be honest most people are too lazy to even take the suggestions given here and do anything. Not to mention most people don't sell the same stuff you do.
    So your logic is... it's ok to give bad advice because "most" people won't take action on it?

    You'll find that in a couple of Jason's very competitively priced products, he teaches exactly how he learnt to write copy, and who's letters he picked apart to learn the process - he sells those 'pickings' too.
    Are you talking about the Gary Halbert videos? That product is a cease and desist notice waiting to happen. Even John Carlton (who owns the rights to Gary Halbert's content) has told Jason face to face that he's planning on shutting down sites selling Halbert's ads, just hasn't gotten around to it yet.

    Just something to think about...
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Robert -

      I think he is talking about Jason's www.3hourads.com

      Which if we're honest blows most copywriting courses out of the water. Sure it doesn't give you sales letters in 5 minutes but most people like it.

      I'm not going to argue with you I swiped all your letters, put them in a nice PDF file and then sent them to the trash where you want them I guess.

      I'd be honored to have others learn from me but maybe in your world they have to pay a $997 fee to do so.

      Best of luck Robert.

      Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      So your logic is... it's ok to give bad advice because "most" people won't take action on it?
      Is it really bad advice? Almost anyone that does copy will tell you to get a swipe file, unless I'm just imagining it?

      Maybe you can put a "swipe-proof" badge on your sites though
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      So your logic is... it's ok to give bad advice because "most" people won't take action on it?
      I took his advice to be...study those who are where you want to be. Pretty solid if you ask me.

      I didn't see mention of ripping anyone off (until you brought it up). Maybe your perception of the word "swipe" led to your reaction. But I took Tim's comments to mean that he intends to emulate those he aspires to be like. Nothing more.

      Also, his using you and others as an example in his advice will likely lead to more eyeballs on your sales letters. I could think of worse things.

      Anyway, I agree 100% with your "why did I buy" theory. When I get ready to click an order link/button, I stop and examine exactly what I read right before I made my purchasing decision. I also do the same when I click to navigate away from a sales page ("why didn't I buy"). It's powerful to understand those thought processes. Especially if you're a member of the target market you're selling to.
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    • Profile picture of the author zapseo
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      So your logic is... it's ok to give bad advice because "most" people won't take action on it?


      Are you talking about the Gary Halbert videos? That product is a cease and desist notice waiting to happen. Even John Carlton (who owns the rights to Gary Halbert's content) has told Jason face to face that he's planning on shutting down sites selling Halbert's ads, just hasn't gotten around to it yet.

      Just something to think about...
      I wonder how the judge will look upon his not enforcing his rights earlier, when the violations are obviously well-known to them. I dunno, sounds like great scarcity for Fladlien's product, if it's still available for sale. (And no, it's not 3hourads .)
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    I'm not going to argue with you I swiped all your letters, put them in a nice PDF file and then sent them to the trash where you want them I guess.
    Tim, here's where you (and a lot of other wanna-be copywriters) are wrong...

    You're keeping a swipe FOLDER instead of a swipe FILE.

    What are you really going to get by saving a bunch of sales letters and "deconstructing" all the headlines and bullet points? You're going to get confused, that's what.

    Instead, make yourself a "made me buy" file. Every time I've ever bought anything, there's one thing that pushed me over the edge to buy. Just one.

    In one sales letter, a guy told the story about how a friend of his (and his wife) flew to a Ferrari factory in Italy to watch it get painted, to make sure they painted their car the exact shade of purple he wanted.

    In another, a guy was selling a piece of software plus video tutorials, for $150. But the big hook was "free software." You pay for the training, the software comes along "free" with it... but there's no pick-and-choose. You pay $150 regardless but he decides what the bonus is.

    Keep a "made me buy" file of 20 bullet items or less and delete the ones you use, along with the ones you keep seeing in that file and never use.

    I don't even have a swipe file right now... I blew threw it about 10 minutes into writing my last sales letter (which sucked in $35K in the first 5 hours).
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      Tim, here's where you (and a lot of other wanna-be copywriters) are wrong...

      You're keeping a swipe FOLDER instead of a swipe FILE.

      What are you really going to get by saving a bunch of sales letters and "deconstructing" all the headlines and bullet points? You're going to get confused, that's what.

      Instead, make yourself a "made me buy" file. Every time I've ever bought anything, there's one thing that pushed me over the edge to buy. Just one.

      In one sales letter, a guy told the story about how a friend of his (and his wife) flew to a Ferrari factory in Italy to watch it get painted, to make sure they painted their car the exact shade of purple he wanted.

      In another, a guy was selling a piece of software plus video tutorials, for $150. But the big hook was "free software." You pay for the training, the software comes along "free" with it... but there's no pick-and-choose. You pay $150 regardless but he decides what the bonus is.

      Keep a "made me buy" file of 20 bullet items or less and delete the ones you use, along with the ones you keep seeing in that file and never use.

      I don't even have a swipe file right now... I blew threw it about 10 minutes into writing my last sales letter (which sucked in $35K in the first 5 hours).
      Hi Robert,

      I'm not taking sides on this issue, but I do have a question. Wouldn't what you are suggesting lead most people to do MORE copying?

      I may be misreading you, but it sounds like having only 20 or so "buying points" is an invitation for people to plagiarize. That's assuming people are people.

      In other words, if they're "stealing" by using a whole folder for inspiration, wouldn't pure math say only 20 would increase the probability of copying?

      Looking forward to your explanation.

      All the best,
      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      I don't even have a swipe file right now... I blew threw it about 10 minutes into writing my last sales letter (which sucked in $35K in the first 5 hours).
      Dang..that's one helluva hook there

      Anyway, your idea of making a swipe file of things that make
      us buy actually makes sense..

      But for those who wants to learn anything they can
      about copywriting, IMHO, it's alright to secure/save a copy
      of the "hey that looks cool" sales page which they can use
      to "learn"

      Learning should be free, it's another thing to plagiarize
      but there should be no restrictions on learning because
      honestly it's a different thing..Look at the thread title:
      "How..etc, etc, etc...to teach me for free!".

      All the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    In other words, if they're "stealing" by using a whole folder for inspiration, wouldn't pure math say only 20 would increase the probability of copying?
    1. What made YOU buy usually isn't what made someone else buy.

    (Added bonus: now you're actually building a swipe file on what made you buy, instead of "this looks cool")

    2. Look at the two examples I gave (the Ferrari and the free software). You're writing down the idea that got you to buy, not writing down the bullet or headline and swapping your keywords into it.

    I don't have a friend who went to Italy so I have to use a crazy story of my own with a bunch of weird stuff (like the color purple) start at the end and then tell the story that ends up there.

    3. In other words, the thing I'm writing into my swipe file can't be found in any headline, bullet, sentence. It's the way they positioned or stacked the offer, the way they told their story in the opener, something like that. Suddenly it's not copying anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Plank
    IMHO, it's alright to secure/save a copy
    of the "hey that looks cool" sales page which they can use
    to "learn"
    Everyone I know who saves the actual sales letter, has a folder containing GIGS of sales letters... it's a huge mess even they can't make heads or tails of.

    Learning should be free, it's another thing to plagiarize
    but there should be no restrictions on learning because
    honestly it's a different thing..Look at the thread title:
    "How..etc, etc, etc...to teach me for free!".
    I guess we can't sell anymore ebooks, video courses, webinars, DVDs, and all the universities in the world should shut down right now because "learning should be free."
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    • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      I guess we can't sell anymore ebooks, video courses, webinars, DVDs, and all the universities in the world should shut down right now because "learning should be free."
      Ok Robert, If that's how you want it..You win..From now on everybody
      who wants to learn shouldn't look for any materials they can use in
      learning. They can no longer do it themselves. From now on if you
      want to learn you should buy an ecourse, enroll in the university,
      watch a paid dvd
      .

      You could only learn if you pay.....

      How does that sound?

      I guess what I'm trying to say here is to drive a balance between
      free and paid learning..If you want to learn something and you
      don't have enough money, then throw in some effort and research
      for materials. If you have money and want to learn the more advanced
      materials then pay if you want..

      But to restrict people to freely learn from available materials like sales
      pages which is openly displayed and available to the public in my opinion
      is no good.

      Again, it is one thing to PLAGIARIZE...it's another thing to LEARN...
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    • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
      Originally Posted by Robert Plank View Post

      Everyone I know who saves the actual sales letter, has a folder containing GIGS of sales letters... it's a huge mess even they can't make heads or tails of.
      Why paint everyone with the same brush? I for one keep a swipe folder full of bullet point ideas as well as complete sales pages, even complete sales processes (squeeze, sales, payment system, emails) and it is sufficiently organized. It is a valuable resource to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Truffle
    another little tip you can use with awesome sales copies, is to write the entire sales page out by hand. Ink to paper.

    Doing so will take a long, really long time when the salespage is a long one. Doing so however will help you learn the salespage better and will provide a deeper "link" between you and the copy.

    If you do this with dozens of the best salespages you can find, you'll have a ready knowledge about phrase-styles you can use, bullet-point ideas and a whole range of useful stuff you can use.

    But this alone will not teach you how and why the salescopy works. And knowing that stuff is vital for you to "work your magic". But combine that knowledge with in-depth knowledge of dozens of salesletters and you'll be able to crank out real winners
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  • Profile picture of the author k0zm0zs0ul
    Huh.. this thread is a real eye-opener in regards to some of the more well-known Warriors on here.

    I honestly didn't take the start of this thread as an intention to steal, but an intention to learn.. Who is anyone to say 'You can't learn from a folder full of sales letters' vs a 'file of 20 or so bullet ideas'?

    Just curious, last I checked we're all individuals with our own learning styles and own methods of organizing learning material into a semblance of order that works well for some and sucks for others. To each their own, and if no actual 'stealing and copying' is happening, why isn't that OK exactly?

    When someone looks up to you and your work enough to want to look closer and learn how you do it, I'd take that as a compliment and a measure of your success. If that means examining a few of your publicly visible sales letters vs paying you to teach them, to each his own... no one knows that person's situation, maybe something is getting in the way of them purchasing a high dollar course and they're being resourceful by trying to learn on their own.

    Better than sitting on their thumbs and not trying to learn a damn thang in my book. Just sayin'.

    Seems like a lot of ego is flying around and I hope I don't get tainted! :p That's pretty sad on a forum that is supposed to 'support' people, not tear 'em down or look down on them.

    Every person in every profession has been a 'wanna-be' at some point in their lives, and through resourcefulness and education and application have pushed themselves to a position of 'I am'. Do ya'll forget so quickly how you got there or did you get there by stepping on people and flying on ego?

    Again, I didn't find this start of this thread offensive or insulting or indicative of an intention to steal in anyway, until about half way down. Then it just turned pretty sorry in my book. Very enlightening as well, to put it mildly.

    Warm regards,
    C
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      You know...for what it's worth...I think we're getting into some gray areas
      here that we don't really want to get into.

      John Doe looks at a sales page. In fact, I'm looking at one right now as I
      am typing this.

      From top to bottom, I see...

      Headline
      Opt In Form
      Sub Head
      Sub Head
      Sub Head
      Salutation
      Text
      Sub Head
      Social Proof
      Sub Head
      Text
      Ecovers
      Bullet Points
      Module Breakdown
      Price Pitch
      Payment Box
      PS
      Payment Button

      Now, John Doe looks at this outline and sees that the product it is
      attached to is selling very well, so he decides to copy the outline...not
      the text, just the structure.

      Joe Copywriter sees John Doe's sales page, and while the text is nothing
      like the text on Joe Copywriter's sales page, Joe Copywriter claims that
      John Doe STOLE his sales page outline and decides to make a case out of
      it.

      My point is...where do we draw the line?

      If we want to draw it that deep in the sand, then pretty much every
      sales page out there is ripped off from somebody. I've yet to see anything
      that was truly unique.

      If you're taking somebody's sales letter word for word for the same type
      of product, yes, that's theft.

      But if you're taking people's ideas for presenting a sales letter and using
      your own words and triggers, at least in my opinion, there is nothing wrong
      with this.

      Otherwise, why don't we just take every copywriter on the planet and
      fine him for whatever, because I've yet to see one sales letter that doesn't
      look almost identical to another.

      And if you think I'm kidding...head on over to the Clickbank marketplace
      under money and employment and take a look at the top 5 products.

      I think some of the arguments I've read here against using sales letters
      as inspiration are a little extreme.

      But again, that's just my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Becker
    Copying, especially for commercial use, is plagiarism.

    But imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    I know Tim, and I know Robert, and I'm sure Tim had no intention of plagiarizing, nor did he have any intent to publish a PDF of swipes and turn it into a WSO.

    Let's not be so grumpy on here, guys, agree to disagree, and not get so bent out of shape.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Becker
    I think some of the arguments I've read here against using sales letters
    as inspiration are a little extreme.

    But again, that's just my opinion.
    Well said, Steven.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I've wondered about this myself and I don't know the legality of it,
    but if I write a book to comment on Stephen King's best novels
    I think this comes under fair use. In other words if my work
    is about how another copywriter writes his letter and I reference
    his letter then I'm not selling the letter but the HOW TO WRITE
    letters like copywriter X.

    I don't think all the books that comment on another book has
    to get permission from the original author because all of these
    books will give raving reviews.

    I'm not a lawyer nor play one on TV. Just my thoughts.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author k0zm0zs0ul
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      I've wondered about this myself and I don't know the legality of it,
      but if I write a book to comment on Stephen King's best novels
      I think this comes under fair use. In other words if my work
      is about how another copywriter writes his letter and I reference
      his letter then I'm not selling the letter but the HOW TO WRITE
      letters like copywriter X.

      I don't think all the books that comment on another book has
      to get permission from the original author because all of these
      books will give raving reviews.

      I'm not a lawyer nor play one on TV. Just my thoughts.

      -Ray Edwards
      Hee...I play one on T.V. Well..maybe not REAL T.V. but I gotta great one in my head! Full screen, movie theater style where I reign as Queen Lawyer..and sometimes writer as my mundane day job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Having worked with a major Publishing House, I talked to them about the copyright to use on our books.

    This is part of the rights we use, and they (Harper Collins) suggested using. Take a look at the different physical books you have to see how they term the copyright.

    All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying or otherwise, without the prior written permission of the author. Short extracts may be used for review purposes.

    See the last sentence, short extracts may be used for review purposes.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Well I only 'swipe from Kennedy or Glazer, but they actually tell you to, AND to change as few of the words as possible. Different mindset I guess. Perry Marshall & Glenn Livingston say the same thing about their stuff... 'Swipe away'. As far as I know, the guys making the most money are the least concerned about having their stuff swiped. (I think it is because they are really talented and can easily come up with another winner, or they do just like being more helpful. But in my limited experience, the most successful are the most sharing.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
    I personally think that Robert is over reacting.

    I am sure that Tim never intended to copy anyone but just to get some good resources to give him ideas.

    I have always respected Robert on WF but i have seen another side now that i dont like
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