Would You Be Willing to Pay $20+ for an Article? (Writer's competition added!)

144 replies
Hi Warriors,

As some of you might now I am a professional writer.

One thing that amazes me is that you can get an article done for $5 or less online. Now don't get me wrong (and please do not be ofended) but some of these "writers" DO NOT know how to write.

I focus on delivering value, professional writing. If I want to outsource graphic design I look for good designers. Now I do understand that some people need those $5 workers and others can afford to pay a little more.

For those who can afford it, would you be willing to pay, say, $20, $30, $50 for an article? And just out of curiosity, for those who don't have the money to invest, let's imagine you had: would you be willing to invest that for an article?

I am just trying to understand if everyone thinks $5 is good or there are people out there willing to give a little more to get a little bit more quality!

Best
James
#$20 #article #pay
  • Profile picture of the author brettmwindmann
    I think you make a decent point in that some people who charge only $5.00 may not know how to write, but that is why you train them. For me personally I can pay less than $5.00 an article and still have EXACTLY what I want after I train my writer. Of course, they need good English skills and some experience, but once trained they are great.

    I do not know if I would pay $20.00 for an article ever. Granted that would depend on length and what I was using the article for. If it is just for driving traffic or testing a niche, then no not a chance. If it happen to be a much longer article to really start off my blog with a great post, then possibly.

    I think it all depends on what the person is looking to do with the article. But if you ask me I think you may price yourself out the market by charging $20.00 for an article, but then again you may know something I don't.

    Just my $.02
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    • Profile picture of the author zincOnline
      I would pay those prices for content placed on my own site, but for throwing up here there and everywhere then not a chance.

      I think you need to market yourself as a content creation service that specializes in web companies for small businesses etc etc etc

      Goog web designers often outsource page content, photography etc

      just my 2p
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    • Profile picture of the author James Seward
      Originally Posted by brettmwindmann View Post

      I think you make a decent point in that some people who charge only $5.00 may not know how to write, but that is why you train them. For me personally I can pay less than $5.00 an article and still have EXACTLY what I want after I train my writer. Of course, they need good English skills and some experience, but once trained they are great.

      I do not know if I would pay $20.00 for an article ever. Granted that would depend on length and what I was using the article for. If it is just for driving traffic or testing a niche, then no not a chance. If it happen to be a much longer article to really start off my blog with a great post, then possibly.

      I think it all depends on what the person is looking to do with the article. But if you ask me I think you may price yourself out the market by charging $20.00 for an article, but then again you may know something I don't.

      Just my $.02
      Hey,

      Yeah but you still have to train those writers and you are losing time hence losing money. So wouldn't you be better paying somone $20 per article but not needing to train them?

      Also you assume that you train a writer to integrate a team. What if you can't afford a team or you just need an ocasional article?

      Thanks for your opinion.

      Best
      James
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      • Profile picture of the author brettmwindmann
        Originally Posted by James Seward View Post

        Hey,

        Yeah but you still have to train those writers and you are losing time hence losing money. So wouldn't you be better paying somone $20 per article but not needing to train them?

        Also you assume that you train a writer to integrate a team. What if you can't afford a team or you just need an ocasional article?

        Thanks for your opinion.

        Best
        James
        Right, but for the purpose of what I would be using a normal article for I would not pay $20.00. As far as training goes, I would need to hire a team anyway so the training would come.

        I am not arguing the fact that $20.00 is to much for an article, but it is not a price I would normally pay based on what I use them for. Clearly others feel differently so I think it all depends on ones business and the value they see in the article.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Seward
      Originally Posted by brettmwindmann View Post

      I think you make a decent point in that some people who charge only $5.00 may not know how to write, but that is why you train them. For me personally I can pay less than $5.00 an article and still have EXACTLY what I want after I train my writer. Of course, they need good English skills and some experience, but once trained they are great.

      I do not know if I would pay $20.00 for an article ever. Granted that would depend on length and what I was using the article for. If it is just for driving traffic or testing a niche, then no not a chance. If it happen to be a much longer article to really start off my blog with a great post, then possibly.

      I think it all depends on what the person is looking to do with the article. But if you ask me I think you may price yourself out the market by charging $20.00 for an article, but then again you may know something I don't.

      Just my $.02
      Hey,

      Yeah but you still have to train those writers and you are losing time hence losing money. So wouldn't you be better paying somone $20 per article but not needing to train them?

      Also you assume that you train a writer to integrate a team. What if you can't afford a team or you just need an ocasional article?

      Thanks for your opinion.

      Best
      James
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  • Profile picture of the author MyLinkClub
    The first thing I consider before paying for content: how much does this person know about what they're actually writing.

    Then, I look at their ability to write.


    Never the other way around.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    It all depends on the intended purpose. Marketers, more often than not, need volumes of inexpensive filler articles. Other times they need killer information created. Sometimes, just a really well written article or two. They all have their purpose and place. There are many situations where $20 per article is realistic. $100 or more per article is often found in the offline world.
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  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
    I've received $15 per article as a pro with many years' experience as a journalist. Actually, I think it's low for someone with my background. There are writers who do not have my expertise who are working for $5. Personally, I would never work for that small amount. Most likely there are writers who ask for and make well over $50. Once a writer is established and has built up an impressive reputation, he/she can ask more... and get it.

    All that aside, however, I cannot let this go.

    You suggest that people will pay $20+ for a pro writer who is "delivering value". I surmise that this means you are hoping to make upwards of that amount. Your thread reveals that you might not be the "professional" that you might think, considering all the spelling mistakes.

    Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    I wrote an article for someone a while ago who paid me 100.00$. I met the guy in the library, I made sure to research my a** off to give this guy killer content. I believe people who are willing to pay that much are looking for a complete marketing solution. If they spend 20.00$ they are expecting a good ROI on this article, and if you could deliver that you will have no problem charging this amount.
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  • Profile picture of the author eriman
    Is there a place where I take a look at some of your older work?
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
      I am starting to migrate away from these cheap ass $5 articles because they really do suck.

      Sure, the info they present tends to be correct. But all they do is rehash already created content.

      If you want someone with REAL expertise to create unique and therefore valuable content, you have to pay for it.

      Im working on a webmaster resource site and I want this thing to be awesome so I am going to be paying atleast $25 for a 500-600 word article.

      I think the $25 might even be a little low...
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  • Profile picture of the author matrix1989
    $20 is a drop in the hat compared to what some websites are worth. So yes, if i were making big money then $20 an article for quality is no big deal
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    If I had the money available and could see what value I would get for an article, possibility of bringing in more business with a well written piece of content rather than crap then I would definitely consider paying a premium.

    How much of a premium depends on past work and reputation as well as negotiation.

    I recognise the power of using a big name, or at least one who knows how to spell his own name, it pays dividends and anyone would benefit from it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      James,

      Do you mean a real article, or the search engine dreck that most people in this industry call articles? There is a large difference.

      If you only hang out here, you're going to become convinced that the best prices you can get are what the keyword-focused, and sometimes barely-literate, buyers here are willing to pay.

      You need to look at the market. If all someone wants is keyword-fodder, there's little sense in paying the rates asked by a skilled writer. It's not a smart business move. Nothing wrong with that decision.

      The thing you need to keep in mind is that, just as most of the alleged "writers" who sell articles here suck at writing, most of the buyers here can't really "read." They don't know enough about writing to tell the difference between word salad and skillfully crafted prose. I've seen people here swear that so-and-so produces top quality content, only to look at it and wonder if they've ever read anything more advanced than "Fun with Dick and Jane."

      Yes, that comment will irritate some of the members. That doesn't make it any less true. This is not the proper market for a disciplined and talented wordsmith.

      The real question is, do you have the skills to command higher rates?

      I don't know the answer to that, but you need to. And you need to figure it out before you try to get real-world author's prices for your efforts. Otherwise, you're going to be competing with people who are way out of your league, and that rarely ends well.

      For what it's worth, I can tell you this with absolute certainty: There are folks out there who are willing to pay serious money for what people in the real world consider quality content. I regularly turn down fees that most "writers" here would call me a liar for even mentioning. (I quit doing content for other people for money years ago.)

      For good or ill, those buyers are not shopping for content developers in the Warrior Forum. Too much chaff and not enough wheat here.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author James Seward
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Do you mean a real article, or the search engine dreck that most people in this industry call articles? There is a large difference.
        Yes I mean a real article, a high quality article.

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        The thing you need to keep in mind is that, just as most of the alleged "writers" who sell articles here suck at writing, most of the buyers here can't really "read." They don't know enough about writing to tell the difference between word salad and skillfully crafted prose. I've seen people here swear that so-and-so produces top quality content, only to look at it and wonder if they've ever read anything more advanced than "Fun with Dick and Jane."
        WOW! That's so true!

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        The real question is, do you have the skills to command higher rates?

        I don't know the answer to that, but you need to. And you need to figure it out before you try to get real-world author's prices for your efforts. Otherwise, you're going to be competing with people who are way out of your league, and that rarely ends well.
        Yes I do think I have the skills to command higher rates. Right now I just wanted to know if people are ready to pay those rates? I mean if I told you my rates for the offline world... LOL!

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        For what it's worth, I can tell you this with absolute certainty: There are folks out there who are willing to pay serious money for what people in the real world consider quality content. I regularly turn down fees that most "writers" here would call me a liar for even mentioning. (I quit doing content for other people for money years ago.)
        Ok that answers my question. I just need to find those folks!

        Thanks for all your opinions, I really appreciate it Paul!

        Best
        James
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      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        ...I've seen people here swear that so-and-so produces top quality content, only to look at it and wonder if they've ever read anything more advanced than "Fun with Dick and Jane."

        Yes, that comment will irritate some of the members. That doesn't make it any less true. This is not the proper market for a disciplined and talented wordsmith....
        Paul
        That is so true, Paul. I've read material that was produced by a few "top quality content" writers here and been amazed. Do these people create better quality work when it's being done for others? Are they just sloppy with their posts and their own site contents? More surprising was to see the prices they charge. Yet they are constantly recommended here.

        Just because someone charges top dollar doesn't necessarily mean the price is justified.

        Sylvia
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      • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
        Paul
        I've said it before but shucks I love ya
        I think we need to differentiate from all the dross that spins around - and yes much if it is barely readable, and a properly researched well written article
        I both write and pay others to write- and I'd rather pay more for a better quality. My name's going on it, as is my reputation. I don't expect print quality but I do expect to feel proud of what I'm submitting under my name.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnInNewJersey
        Sir Paul,

        Your essay, number twenty-three, did appear a little snobby. Though actually, did not Joyce Carol Oates spark her career with a WSO (Five Hundred Words for $4.00)?

        I'm kidding I'm kidding! :p

        John
        NJ


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        • Profile picture of the author PMB
          Actually, I believe $20 for an high quality well written article is a steal. I can imagine high ranking authority sites want high quality content to stay out in front of the public eye. So they in my opinion would be willing to invest $20 if not far more to do. In regards to the writting competition I believe Paul is right. By submitting a sample of your writting here would cause others to take note of your talent and give them a reason to search you out for your services. I know I signed up to his list because I felt I could learn from him due to the depth of his responses. Just my .02


          Continued Success,

          PMB
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    My 2 cents...

    It's not the writing. The writing is worth jack. Pretty much anyone can write.

    Heck! Even me.

    It's the research wot counts, innit...

    Steve
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    Not promoting right now

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    • Profile picture of the author James Seward
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      My 2 cents...

      It's not the writing. The writing is worth jack. Pretty much anyone can write.

      Heck! Even me.

      It's the research wot counts, innit...

      Steve
      I also agree with that Steve although i do think not everyone can write, or can write well. But yes research is vital if you want to master content creation.

      Thanks
      James
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Steve,
      It's not the writing. The writing is worth jack. Pretty much anyone can write.

      Heck! Even me.

      It's the research wot counts, innit...
      Wanna bet?

      Seriously... would you like to bet on that?


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      My 2 cents...

      It's not the writing. The writing is worth jack. Pretty much anyone can write.

      Heck! Even me.

      It's the research wot counts, innit...

      Steve

      Ditto Steve!


      James,

      I believe in quality whatever, including content, so yes, I'd be willing to pay that amount for some articles that reflect great research. Why? Because these will be seriously read by the people who need the help or simple want that information. When they do get something out of it, 9 cases out of 10 they will return for more, and in many cases, they will not forget where they got that information.

      I like repeat customers in case you haven't guessed. They are a lot easier to maintain then the trow aways.
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  • Profile picture of the author lightcam
    I think if you're seriously into article marketing, then it makes sense to train someone up. Sure, you'll need to hold their hand for an interim period.... but soon, they'll be writing exactly how you taught them.

    If you only occasionally need articles, then sure it's okay to spend a bit more.... the main focus is making more money than you spend, whilst still providing a valuable service.
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  • Profile picture of the author ToniMaltano
    Same here. It really depends what I need them for. If I want to post to
    article directories to get traffic or backlinks I don't care. I mostly write these
    myself by rewriting other articles. This allows me to churn out a lot of stuff
    quickly and it is good enough. I don't want people to think: Oh damn, that is
    such a great article. I want them to click on that link.

    But if I want to put them on one of my websites I often pay more than 20$ for
    a 500-700 word article. I want it to be quality stuff. This is the place where
    people can think that that's a great article.

    Always put high quality and well researched stuff on YOUR website. Well, of
    course this also depends what you use your website for. But do not spend 20
    bucks for an article if you just want to submit it to an article directory. Please.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    As Steve said, it is about the research. Most of the cheaper writers don't do research. They might do keyword research, they might know how to find articles on directories to use, but don't know how to research the subject.

    Will people pay $20? If you have the ask the question, then you are looking in the wrong area.

    People pay a lot more than that for writing which they know has great research, as one person said, "He didn't hire a ghostwriter, but the best researcher online."
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    • Profile picture of the author James Seward
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      "He didn't hire a ghostwriter, but the best researcher online."
      Yeah research is really really important. Thanks for your opinion Bev I really appreciate it!
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      Will people pay $20? If you have the ask the question, then you are looking in the wrong area.

      People pay a lot more than that for writing which they know has great research, as one person said, "He didn't hire a ghostwriter, but the best researcher online."
      Exactly. Don't let anyone tell you there aren't a lot of buyers out there who'll pay $20 for one article. In fact, that's actually on the low end for professional grade writing. I know firsthand that you can get 5X that for as little as 500-600 words. Yes, that's rare, but it does happen, especially when an offline company dips into the online world for it. The rates online writers charge would be laughable in the "real" world of publishing.

      The "problem" (from the professional writer's perspective) is that online marketers go for numbers so much more often than quality. Along with the demand for more articles comes the logical demand for a low price per article. Goodbye quality, hello mass production tactics by writers. You can see the results all over the Web. Can't throw a dead cybercat and not hit at least 5 websites with atrocious content out of the Top 10 of a typical Google search. Am I right? Rhetorical question.

      Marketers created this monster. But I'm also a marketer and I realize that buying 100 lame articles with sentences strung together by an apparent 5 year old works in a lot of cases. You pay $300 for 100 articles, spam the hell out of the article directories or throw up a ton of Blogger blogs, and rake in some affiliate sales or CPA commissions. I get it. ROI rules.

      But it's still a pretty sad state of affairs for all of us when we take off the marketing hat and put on the consumer searcher hat. Just sayin'.

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author uzomaeze
    It all depends on what you are offering for the writing, if its a content that has some careful research topics etc then 20 dolls might just be right, if its something that has to do with 500 words article stuff then you have to consider the other option which is the 5 dolls per article piece.

    In all, the options are on the table and to be honest it might prove some difficulty in today's present world where money is valued as gold
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  • Profile picture of the author mattalways
    I have a small team of writers and we run into this issue all of the time. It makes it hard to quote, because we could put together junk for $5/article, or actually spend the time researching and writing professionally for $15 - $20 an article. It makes it tough because you're not sure what the client is after and it's tough to explain, you can have junk for $5 or quality for $15.

    I posted a thread asking people what they thought of the same thing, but I think the mod thought I was trying to promote my writers. Did the mods also delete that thread about the "sad day for IM" by lil mikey. About how one of the so called "gurus" sent out an offer??
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  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    Paul,

    whenever I have written anything remotely similar to your above post, all hell has broken loose! Well said, though. It seems to have been a day of "home truths," today.

    Rachel,

    How the devil are you? I haven't seen you here for ages! I saw you on TV some time ago but thought you may have then been whisked off into the sunset by one of your dates from the book!



    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Steve thinks research is the big thing. I disagree.

      We have a ton of people here who are (and some who think they are) good writers. As in, professional grade.

      Let's find out who the pros really are. I'll hand you the research and the piece you have to compete with. Other than basic grammar and spell-checking, I did this one in a single pass, to illustrate a story-telling formula for a product. It's sold many, many thousands of dollars worth of hardware, based on direct feedback I've gotten from people who've read it.

      Here's a chance to show off, folks, and you get to do it without fear of getting slammed for self-promotion (no links, though). Take as many or as few words as you like to give your own version.

      Beat this, and you can charge real author's rates.

      --------

      This Will Kill Your Business, 5 Times Out Of 6


      The lightning flashed, the lights flickered, and the nightmare
      began. Before it was all finished, he gave my business one
      chance in six of surviving.

      Let me step back a bit.

      I had just finished 3 days of work on a new report I was
      planning to offer to the folks who visit my blog. It was 60
      pages of some of the best stuff I've done in a long while, and
      I was going over it one more time, to add a little "zing" to
      the thing.

      I was in the zone, and didn't really notice when it started
      raining. When the lightning flashed, I didn't pay much
      attention. Then the lights dimmed and my monitor winked out.

      Hard to miss that.

      I didn't get too excited, as I'd been saving my work as I went
      along. I figured I might have lost 5 minutes or so of edits.

      When the power came back on, I started the machine up.

      I quickly found out just how wrong I was.

      ....

      It might be better to say, "I turned the power on." My
      computer refused to start. I tried going to Safe Mode, but it
      didn't get that far into the boot-up.

      I felt my heart drop into my stomach. My whole business was on
      that machine.

      I couldn't even think about what that meant. After the panic
      settled down a bit, I called the only guy I know who I thought
      could fix it. My buddy, Jim.

      ....

      When Jim showed up, he took a look around my office and said,
      before he even tried to start my computer, "Bill, you're in
      trouble." Before I could ask why, he said, "Let's see if we can
      fix the immediate problem first. What happened?"

      He somehow got the machine to display a screen I'd never seen
      before. He made some changes, popped a CD into the drive, and
      restarted it. What came up on the monitor looked nothing like
      my desktop.

      "The good news is, your computer still works."

      "And the bad news?," I asked. "Your hard drive may be fried,"
      was the answer. "Do you make regular backups?"

      I admitted that I didn't. He just shook his head, said, "Start
      praying," and pulled out a box he'd brought with his laptop.
      While he worked, I prayed. And sweated. And did a quick mental
      inventory of all the things that were on that drive.

      I prayed some more.

      He took the drive out of my computer and hooked it up in the
      box. He connected that to his laptop and started it up. After a
      few minutes of doing things that I couldn't begin to
      understand, he looked up and said, "Pray harder."

      My heart started rolling around in my stomach. I thought I was
      going to puke.

      A few minutes later, Jim said, "This should work, but it's
      going to take a while. You're buying lunch."

      I didn't have much of an appetite at this point, but out we
      went. Over lunch, Jim asked me some questions. Mostly about
      what kinds of insurance I had, and whether I had investments
      for retirement. When we added up the costs of those things, he
      asked me one more question:

      "Bill, is feeding your family a hobby?"

      When I indignantly replied that it obviously wasn't, he said,
      "Could have fooled me."

      He launched into a lengthy explanation of the things that could
      have caused my problem. Basically, they all boiled down to
      power fluctuations, like those caused during a lightning storm
      or a summer brownout. They could have destroyed any or all of
      the components, along with whatever data was on the machine.
      Along with that, a simple hard drive failure could wipe out all
      my records and all my work.

      Then he told me something that shocked me. "Bill, computers are
      easy to replace and they get cheaper all the time. If that
      strike wiped out your data without you having backups, though,
      you have about one chance in six of still being in business in
      two years."

      From the look on my face, he could tell I didn't believe him.
      Or maybe that I didn't want to believe him.

      "Yeah, really," he said. "Roughly 85% of businesses that
      suffer catastrophic data loss go out of business shortly
      thereafter. Most fail within 2 years. Almost all serious data
      loss is a result of power problems or hard drive crashes,
      combined with a lack of current backups."

      When he was finished, he said, "Come on. We're going shopping.
      We still have plenty of time before we find out whether you
      dodged a bullet."

      As we walked out to my car, he casually asked, "By the way. If
      you lost your business, how would you pay for all that
      insurance you have to protect your family?"

      Ouch. That hurt.

      ....

      When we pulled up to the local computer store, Jim grabbed a
      cart. I could tell this wasn't going to be a $20 fix.

      We chatted about more casual things as Jim started loading
      stuff into the cart. It wasn't as much as I expected, at first.
      A USB thumb drive, a spindle of blank DVDs, and an external
      hard drive. Those all fit in the child seat.

      When we grabbed the last item, I realized why he'd gotten a
      cart: The thing seemed to weigh as much as my computer, a
      bowling ball, and the spare tire for my RV, all packed into one
      medium-sized box.

      We rolled up to the register and he said, "Pay the nice man,
      Bill."

      A little over $500 later, most of it for that mysterious
      monstrosity he'd nearly strained himself moving, we were
      headed home.

      When we got back, he looked at his laptop and told me we had
      some time yet. He started unpacking things, and then unplugged
      my computer and monitor. As he set each item up, he told me
      what it was for. He started with the big one.

      "This," he said, "is called an uninterruptible power supply - a
      UPS. It protects your computer and other components from power
      fluctuations. Plug the sensitive stuff - your computer,
      monitor, backup drive and cable modem, into these outlets here.
      If your phone goes out when the power does, you might want to
      plug that in here, too.

      "It also acts as a battery backup unit. If the power goes out
      completely, it will start beeping. From then, you'll have
      anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes before whatever you have plugged
      in has to be turned off. Depends on how much juice you're
      drawing. My advice: As soon as this critter starts beeping,
      save your work and power down.

      "Your desk phone uses a lot less power than your PC and
      monitor, so that will last longer if it's all that's running
      off the battery. You can also plug your cell phone charger into
      it to get juice for that in an emergency, as long as you don't
      run the battery down with the computer itself.

      "When we get your computer back up and running, I'll hook this
      up so it automatically shuts down if the power goes out and
      you're not at your desk.

      "You could probably have gotten by with a cheaper one, but
      there's no sense risking it. For this, you get the best you can
      afford. The smaller units are okay, but they don't last as long
      or give you quite the same protection. The last thing you want
      to depend on is one of those stupid power strips that claim to
      be surge protectors. They're almost as useless as nothing at
      all.

      "This will help protect your computer AND your data, both.

      "Don't count on it completely, though. A UPS won't protect you
      from drive crashes caused by other things, or viruses or simple
      human error. You wouldn't be the first intelligent person to
      accidentally wipe your computer."

      The whole time he was talking, I was thinking to myself, "All
      this trouble could have been prevented by plugging my computer
      into one of those?" So I asked him just that question.

      "Yep. Hell, as small as the fluctuation was, you could have
      gotten by that time with one of the $49 units."

      Ouch.

      "I recommend replacing this at least every two years. Every
      year is better. They're tough, but they do wear out."

      While I pondered my own stupidity in not asking about this when
      I got the machine, he started setting up the external hard
      drive. "This," he said, "is for regular backups. You can do
      those one of two ways. There's software with it that will do
      regular updates to your backups at scheduled intervals.

      "The plus side to that is that you don't have to think about
      it. The down side is that it means you have to leave the unit
      plugged in and turned on. As long as you have it plugged into
      one of the outlets on your UPS that has battery backup, that
      should be fine.

      "The second way is to do backups manually. That's a bit of a
      hassle, but it lets you unplug the thing completely when you're
      not doing backups, which adds a bit of security. Plug it into
      one of the battery outlets when you're doing backups, and the
      only thing that's likely to mess up your data is if your house
      catches fire. If that happens, you have more immediate things
      to worry about.

      "I do mine manually, but I have a routine for this stuff.
      You're just not going to remember, so I recommend using the
      automatic system. I'll set that up for you before I leave."

      Okay, okay. You're right. I wouldn't remember. Could you be a
      bit more diplomatic?

      Then he pointed at the spindle of DVDs. "Those," he said "are
      for off site backups. As soon as we get your computer working
      again, we're going to make backups of every bit of important
      data on the machine, on those disks. You're going to store them
      somewhere away from your house. With a trusted friend, in a
      safe deposit box, anywhere but here.

      "That way, if your house should burn down, or something else
      happen that ruined everything in your office, like a roof leak,
      virus or human error, you'll still be covered.

      "I'm going to set up a firewall and anti-virus software on
      here, too. They're not guaranteed to stop everything, but
      they'll cut the risks even more."

      "How often you do new DVD backups will depend on how much your
      data changes, and how bad it would be to lose it. I recommend
      at least twice a month, and preferably once a week. This is for
      the really important stuff. Stuff that would be very difficult
      or very expensive to replace.

      "You're going to have to remember that on your own. The
      alternative to remembering is to get a second external hard
      drive, just like the one you got today, and swap them out
      weekly. Keep the one that's not connected somewhere else."

      Okay. I'll have to think about that one. Where do I go every
      week that I could store the off site one?

      "The thumb drive is for very short term stuff, and really
      critical files that change often. Like that report you told me
      you were working on when things hit the fan. At the end of
      every day, take your work in progress and copy it to the thumb
      drive. When you've got it copied, unplug the drive and leave it
      on your desk. That covers the stuff you do in between backups.

      "Any questions?"

      ....

      As Jim went back to his laptop to check the progress of
      whatever he was doing with my old drive, I thought about what
      he'd just said. If I hadn't just been through this, I would
      have thought he was being paranoid.

      Not any more. I don't ever want to have to go through this
      again.

      "Good news," Jim said. "Your prayers were answered. The drive
      wasn't toasted. Just had a few files wiped out that I was able
      to recover. Let's get that puppy hooked up and get you back to
      business."

      ....

      While he did that, and all through the time we were making my
      initial backups, I kept thinking of what a close call this had
      been, and what would have happened if that drive really had
      been destroyed. Or if I hadn't had a friend who could fix it
      for me.

      Not a lot of people know someone like Jim.

      I have backup housing, in the form of homeowner's insurance. I
      have backup income for my family, through my health and life
      insurance. Hell, we even have a backup car in the garage.

      I thought I was smart. I thought I was covered. And yet,
      something as simple as bad weather could have wiped out the
      business that pays for all of that.

      "Roughly 85% of businesses that suffer catastrophic data loss
      fail within two years," he'd said.

      All for the lack of $500 worth of hardware. Or, hell, just a
      $50 battery and some blank DVDs.

      Stupid, stupid, stupid. But never again.

      Now, where do I store those off site backups?
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      • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Steve thinks research is the big thing. I disagree.

        We have a ton of people here who are (and some who think they are) good writers. As in, professional grade.

        Let's find out who the pros really are. I'll hand you the research and the piece you have to compete with. Other than basic grammar and spell-checking, I did this one in a single pass, to illustrate a story-telling formula for a product. It's sold many, many thousands of dollars worth of hardware, based on direct feedback I've gotten from people who've read it.

        Here's a chance to show off, folks, and you get to do it without fear of getting slammed for self-promotion (no links, though). Take as many or as few words as you like to give your own version.

        Beat this, and you can charge real author's rates.
        I predict silence....
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Rachel,
          I predict silence....
          Why? There are no doubt people here who can match or beat that. And even if they can't, it's a free shot to show off their skills for potential clients, with no penalty, as long as they only post their entry.

          The good ones could make a lot of money with this, either way.

          And I want to see who really believes in their skills.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
            Because I don't think many people could top it to be honest.
            I write for top magazines as my job- and find that what people think it good writing on here is nothing I'd consider as notes somewhere else.
            I have a personal love of storytelling as a style that sells. I use it myself in articles, and enjoy it. My favourite was when I managed to tie in a childhood memory of dancing to Abba on couches with an interview I did with Colin Firth. That was fun
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    • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
      I almost said the same thing to you before Tom!
      I'm now doing a regular spot on the main Breakfast Show on here- doing relationship commentating. Things are going well- a little rebranding here- some more rebranding there...

      how about you?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Sylvia,

        Yeah. Price in some markets means nothing other than good marketing. Sad, but that's what happens when you have uninformed buyers...

        Rachel,
        I've said it before but shucks I love ya
        ... and I never tire of hearing it, ma'am.

        Alas, you're in a far away land...

        Tom,
        Whenever I have written anything remotely similar to your above post, all hell has broken loose!
        Be patient, sir. It still may.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author activetrader
    Originally Posted by James Seward View Post


    For those who can afford it, would you be willing to pay, say, $20, $30, $50 for an article?
    I would pay it depending on what the articles are for. However the problem here is that what prevents a writer from re-selling and re-packaging articles I have paid for from later selling them as PLR in bulk to multiple buyers? This is one big problem. You can't trust someone you don't know. If you order articles on a forum, then you will never know where those articles will end up. You have to leverage your losses, so with paying $3-5/article you will just eat it and move on. But if you pay $20/article for an order of let's say 100 articles, that's $2,000 and you never know if those articles will be re-sold as PLR on multiple forums and posted all over the Internet.

    Secondly, how do you know the quality you are getting before you get the final product? You leverage by paying less. If the quality is no good you just don't order from the same writer any more. But if you end up paying hundreds and thousands of dollars for a not up to par quality, than it's a loss or you have to re-write them yourself or hire somebody else to re-write them.

    If I could find a quality writer with integrity I would not mind paying $20 per article.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Seward
      Originally Posted by activetrader View Post

      I would pay it depending on what the articles are for. However the problem here is that what prevents a writer from re-selling and re-packaging articles I have paid for from later selling them as PLR in bulk to multiple buyers? This is one big problem. You can't trust someone you don't know. If you order articles on a forum, then you will never know where those articles will end up. You have to leverage your losses, so with paying $3-5/article you will just eat it and move on. But if you pay $20/article for an order of let's say 100 articles, that's $2,000 and you never know if those articles will be re-sold as PLR on multiple forums and posted all over the Internet.

      Secondly, how do you know the quality you are getting before you get the final product? You leverage by paying less. If the quality is no good you just don't order from the same writer any more. But if you end up paying hundreds and thousands of dollars for a not up to par quality, than it's a loss or you have to re-write them yourself or hire somebody else to re-write them.

      If I could find a quality writer with integrity I would not mind paying $20 per article.
      Good points!

      You would have to sign some sort of agreement or just believe in the writer.

      And you can test the writer, just get one article and see if you like it.

      Thanks
      James
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    • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
      i've never done that. I will tell the people I work for if I've written on that topic in the past, and if I plan to use the same topic in the future I re research it.
      That's what "real" writers do. They aren't thieves.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Paul,

    I loved the article the first time I read it. Beat you, very difficult to do.

    I have wondered for a long time whether the buyers saying "Top article" would actually know what a good article is.

    Bev
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Bev,
      Beat you, very difficult to do.
      They don't have to beat that piece, although I'm sure there are people here who could do it. This is a chance for the writers in the place to show what they've got. It could be a 350 word data piece, a press release for a backup firm...anything that shows real skill and that a serious business would pay to use to promote their products.
      I have wondered for a long time whether the buyers saying "Top article" would actually know what a good article is.
      Most of them wouldn't have a clue. Some do, but they're using the phrase in a context that's different than you and I would.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Rachel,
        Because I don't think many people could top it to be honest.
        Sure they can. Just apply a different spin or style.

        Want to have some fun? Put a romantic spin onto that same theme. And yes, it is possible...


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Want to have some fun? Put a romantic spin onto that same theme. And yes, it is possible...
          Hint: Think Cyrano, Roxanne, and whatsisname.


          Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
          I've got a deadline to meet- but I'm going to give it a shot for FUN . Meanwhile I thought I might add one of my personal all time favourites- this is a press release I wrote that had a very good response from media peeps who normally just bin press releases. It shows you why it is important to break out of the "formula" mold:

          THIS PRESS RELEASE IS NOT FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION

          Yeah we know that that goes against the official Press Release creed, but it's true! We want to give you some breaking information, but it's not to be leaked out to just anyone. Want to share it over a coffee with the guy who sits opposite? Sure!. But that 'eye candy' propping up the bar on Friday night? Nah uh!

          Suna Pilates has been involved in helping creatives and media types feel good about their bodies since we first opened the doors to our large studio in Takapuna eight years ago.

          We've had television presenters, editors, journalists, cameramen and PR specialists on our books all experiencing just how good it feels to:
          Improve core strength
          Correct Posture
          Resolve recurring injuries
          Have a full body work out (and break a sweat)
          Improve the way your body looks
          Release stress


          So What's the Deal?
          First: a free intro session. But you know, we tend to give those away all the time so...
          If you like us after that, you get a super cheap deal!

          We'll sign you up for our APT (Abs, Posture, Tone) plan, which gives you unlimited pilates, for just $20 per week. (Normally $25 per week)
          To ensure you feel confident going into these classes we'll five you two FREE starter classes (normal value: $65)

          All you need to do is phone us for an initial introductory session. We'll take it from there.
          Call us on XXX to schedule your place, and get your body on the right track.
          From the team at Suna

          *There is of course a very pragmatic reason we're offering you bunch this great deal. Let's face it, media people do tend to have big mouths.(Heck, the person writing this release is possibly the very worst!) If you love us, and we know you will, you'll tell others about how cool Suna is. We'd be pretty happy about that!

          P.S We'll be offering the discounted APT rate as an ongoing special rate to anyone in the media or PR industry. But our free introductory sessions are a limited offer. Take advantage of this very special offer by November the 20th. Just ring Suna to book your introductory session on XXXX
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            A press release targeted at a media-maker's market. THAT is clever!

            Tip o' the Stetson to you, ma'am!


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author claywalsh
              I would not pay $20+,

              There are good article writers (who speak english and write unique content) who do $5 articles
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            • Profile picture of the author lovemyth
              You definitely get what you pay for!! Before I pay $20 for an article I would want proof of the results I can expect from this "one" $20 article. Personal opinion, if you want to brand yourself shouldn't you learn to write good quality content yourself instead of having people write for you?? If you are the expert in your field, shouldn't you be the one to educate through your articles?
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                You definitely get what you pay for!! Before I pay $20 for an article I would want proof of the results I can expect from this "one" $20 article.
                Ummm... HUH?

                How do you prove results in advance? And do you not realize that the results have as much to do with the traffic you generate as with the content itself?


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  Ummm... HUH?

                  How do you prove results in advance? And do you not realize that the results have as much to do with the traffic you generate as with the content itself?


                  Paul
                  I agree with Paul. How exactly are you supposed to prove ahead a time how much the article will make? And the content is only PART of the puzzle. The very same article promoted differently can have very different results.

                  If one person only put a $20 article on their site and no where else, it may not do anywhere as well as another $20 article put on 20+ directories, backlinked etc.

                  Sylvia
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        • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Sure they can. Just apply a different spin or style.
          Paul,

          What spinner would you suggest to compete with your writing style?

          I put your piece into my article spinner and I just got an email from the Maytag repair guy telling me to "knock it off".

          I told him to get with the program, that's why I bought the machine in the first place...:rolleyes:

          KJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Bill,
            I put your piece into my article spinner and I just got an email from the Maytag repair guy telling me to "knock it off".
            One word...

            splorf!


            Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author danalingga
    Depend on the quality of the article of course. If the article i think give some viral affect, surely i do not have any issue to pay it for $20 or more.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    some of these "writers" DO NOT know how to write.
    and some do, even for less
    Although its hard to find them. And $20/article would be out of the question for me. Different story if you only have 1 site and need super, great quality content and you are fine with that one site and can pay $20 per article. But if you need 50-100-500ish articles per week...who should pay this?

    As from the writer's perspective: A good (good!) average 400 words "put on ezine" article could be written in 15-20 mins. Even with "only" $4/article...this is a better pay per hour than MOST average people in the states make in retail, restaurants or MANY other jobs. And many of those people are in countries where $12-$16/hour is a LOT of money. So from that point of view i dont feel bad paying "only" $4 per article
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Paul,

    I hate to tell you this, but I liked KJ's story better.

    Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Targeting the "real" players in online business is how you get paid $100 or more per article. Whilst everyone else is writing for $5 scraps, there are a silent bunch making $100's per day writing quality content.

    The biggest fallacy of all, is that "marketers" think that $5 articles have purpose and value. It might "fill" a blog or get a backlink, but ultimately, it clogs the web with rehashed trash.

    Google, Article Directories and ultimately web users, are all becoming aware of this, and trashy content is starting to get pushed down the visibility ladder online.

    People who pay $150 per article are doing so because they know that article will get traction, natural backlinks, might even go viral...

    ...and trust me, when you're sailing on a boat made of gold in a sea full of turds, the lifeguard will spot you and save your butt.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
      agreed Nick
      I think that I'd rather write an article that has a whole pile of my love and thoughts wrapped into it than piles of crapola that is just crowding up the googlewaves.
      I have an hourly rate in my head- if you pay that per article you get alot more work into it that if you pay less. That's how it should be too. I get upwards of fifty cents to a dollar a word for non IM clients, and I take far more time- because they've paid for it.
      If you want quality and consistency you need to pay for quality and consistency.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Paul, not promoting anything. Just a short article based on personal experience.

    Finally, the day arrived. We drove off to the store to buy my own computer; we had the specification for it, now to see if it was in stock. They did, and it was loaded into the car, and we set off for home.

    Everything was unpacked and soon the computer was assembled, and we hit the power button. The noise was wonderful, as it showed everything was in working order.

    Now for many people, they would just start to use it, but being married to an IT person, Rob had other ideas. He made backups of the software, he checked everything first before I was let loose on it.

    Check this ... check that ... c'mon you can't be serious, how many more checks are needed? Yes, I know, it's important, but we women aren't known for our patience ... OK! I'm not known for my patience.

    "Coffee, Rob" I shout. "Yes, please. It won't be long before you can use the computer."

    The hours pass by, and finally I hear the magical words, "It's ready." But, I knew there had to be a "But."

    "Don't forget, your computer is important, but if something happens, you can replace it, but if the data is lost, then what will you do?" asks Rob.

    "I know, I know, remember I put in place the backup system for the company in Bath."

    Yes, it is easy to know something, but to do it yourself is another story.

    This machine would be used when I finally put my business online. It was a good buy, but a disaster waiting to happen if something went wrong.

    Rob knew from experience if a company loses it data and can't recover it within a month; they would normally lose their business. I knew this, I've heard it, and I've written about it.

    Backup and using an UPS was the norm in our home. We understood our computer wasn't the most important part of our business. If the computer died, then we had our backup which would get our business running within hours of buying a new computer.

    Rob kept saying, "Too many people are focused on their computer because they see it as their main assets, but they forget what life would be if they lost their computer even for a day."
    Rob asked, "What would happen if you didn't have your computer for a day? How many tasks do you do daily using your computer? Email; passwords; research material; software; forums; surfing the web; PayPal. How many of these jobs could you do without a computer? The answer ... nothing; zero; zilch. Imagine for a moment a day without your computer.

    I can remember the day as clearly as many important days. I came back from the stores, put my shopping away, went into my office, and plugged in my computer ... a flash and a very large bang. It sounded like it came from my computer ... now a fried computer. It was roasted, and this was my view ... a female who knows nothing about electronics.

    Quickly, I grabbed the phone and called Rob at his office, "My computer; it doesn't work, it is dead." Yes, I know, not a great help. I told him about the flash, told him about the bang.

    Rob said, "Take it slowly, try and plug in something else into the socket." I did, it worked, so the electric socket was fine.

    I remembered we had taken out insurance from the company we bought the computer from, and they would check the computer for me.

    I took it to the store, and they said they should be able to get some of the information off the hard disk. I wasn't too bothered about that as we had all the software disk and backups we had taken.

    Daily, I waited for the phone to ring. Finally, they called to say the computer was dead, but they had retrieved all the data on the machine. It was a glorious day, because it meant I didn't have to spend hours restoring from my backup.

    Since then, we have always treated our data with even more respect than before. The computer is just a box which houses the data, and if you remember this, then you would treat your data with the respect it deserves.

    As Rob said, "Anybody who is serious about using a computer in their business should treat it as gold." Spending money on important assets is part of running a business. But, what if you use your computer for fun only, imagine if you lost all those family photos, videos, emails because you forgot to back up your computer.

    A computer can be replaced, but the data on it, can be lost in seconds if you don't backup. Use a UPS, rotate your backups, do everything possible to protect not only your computer but your data. How much is the data worth to you? Mine is ... Priceless.
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  • Profile picture of the author claywalsh
    Wow $1 or more per word? Thats amazing pay!
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    • Profile picture of the author fitz10
      It is really good pay to get $1 a word, BUT it is extremely hard to get freelance gigs that pay that much. A lot of magazines you see at a typical news stand-- Newsweek, Seventeen, People, etc. are paying that much or more for feature writers. I'm sure you can figure out that magazines with that type of popularity are next to impossible to get into.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
        and...you'd be surprised who doesn't pay much in some of those high glossies.
        Sometimes the best pay I've got is from some weird dodgy looking trade magazine, whereas I've practically had to sell my first born to be printed in a high selling glossy.
        You have to look at how long it takes to to write each one- not just the per word rate.
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  • Profile picture of the author fitz10
    Nice points Rachel. Anyone interested in pursuing offline writing should definitely take a look at some writing for trade magazines. Those can be quite lucrative and they tend not to less competitive than mainstream magazines.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
      Okay, this is more than a bit rough (and unfortunately a "one-take wonder"; I'm playing "Mr. Mom" tonight, and don't exactly have a surplus of time), but here's my shot...couldn't pass it up.

      It's weak in a lot of places, but I didn't have time to do a re-write. Sigh.

      You've got to give me more warning on these pop tests, Paul!

      __________________________________________________ _____

      Beep...

      How do I deal with this?

      Beep...

      Several years ago, we finally transitioned to paperless record-keeping at our house. My wife was against it, and kept saying how she "didn't trust those things" as she pointed at the computer.

      I always laughed at her. "Computers are as secure as anything," I would say. Eventually, she came around and realized I was right.

      Beep...

      She was gone to the gym to work out; I was trying to get some work done in our home office. The bills don't pay themselves. I was interrupted by the nagging sound of the doorbell.

      Beep...

      "Mr. Johnson? My name is Bobby, and I'm..." he asked when I opened the door.

      "No," I interrupted curtly. "You've got the wrong house."

      "Oh, I'm sorry. I was sent out to install some data protection safeguards for Mr. Johnson, and this is the address I have."

      "Hate it for you, but my name's not Johnson. Now, if you'll excuse me..." I said as I started closing the door.

      "I'm sorry to impose, but could you help me out?" he said quickly.

      "What?"

      "I need to get this straightened out; I'm sure it's just a mix-up. I need to call back to the office, but my cell phone isn't getting any signal out here."

      Beep...

      "Uhhhh...sure, but make it quick." I swung the door back open and escorted him to the phone in my home office, where he looked over at my desk as he dialed the phone.

      "Nice computer, sir. What safeguards do you have in place, if you don't mind me asking?"

      "Safeguards? What the devil are you talking about?"

      "Data backups, surge protection, and- oh, I'm sorry sir, hold on. Yes, Sally? Could you go to my desk and find Mr. Johnson's address, please?

      I tried to get something done on the computer, but Bobby seemed to take the wait for his secretary's return as an opportunity to continue talking.

      "I notice you don't have an uninterruptible power supply for your computer, sir. It protects your computer from power fluctuations, and even serves as a battery backup to keep your computer powered for a brief time until the power comes back on."

      He was starting to get my attention. "Really? I've got a power strip on everything. That gives me surge protection, doesn't it?"

      "Not much, and definitely not enough. And with a UPS, you can plug your computer, your modem, even your cell phone into it, and it'll keep things powered long enough for you to save your data and power down before it starts beeping."

      Beep...

      "Speaking of that," Bobby continued, "What data backup method are you using?"

      "What do you mean? It's always there. The last time my computer went out, they just took the hard drive out of the old one and put it in the new one, and there was my data, just like always."

      "No sir; a power spike through the wall outlet, or even just a severe fault in your hard drive, and your data would be gone forever. A portable hard drive with all of your most important information on it would prevent that."

      "That sounds like a lot of trouble."

      "No sir, not at all. You can have backups to a portable hard drive automated with software; you won't have to do anything but set it up. Of course, I do mine manually, so that I can unplug the portable drive after every backup and store it safely, but if you think you won't remember, an automated system is better than no backup at all. But you really need more than one backup...perhaps a flash drive with your data on it, and copies of your most important information on CD or DVD."

      "Huh. And how often would I have to do THAT?"

      "It depends on how often your data changes; probably at least every couple of weeks, and then store an offsite backup someplace else, like a friend or relative's house."

      "Give someone else all of my personal information? Not likely; I've heard about people getting your information and stealing your identity; giving someone a copy of my hard drive sounds like a bad idea. I could just keep them here."

      "If your house were to burn down or flood, they would be lost along with your computer. With backups off-site, even after a small tragedy like a leaky roof or burst pipe that ruins your computer wouldn't destroy all your records and date; you could just buy a new computer, install your information from your off-site backups and you'd have your data with almost no interruption. If you don't like the idea of storing them at a friend's house, you could always store your off-site backups in a safety deposit box, sir; that way, you- yes, Sally, I'm here."

      I did some thinking while he was talking with his secretary. He had a point. I had never thought about how easy it would be to lose all of our records. He said "Thanks, Sally. I'm headed there now," and placed the phone back into its recharger. He looked back at me and said "Thank you for helping me, sir; I reversed the numbers in the address; I'm at the wrong end of your road."

      "No, no...I'm glad you made the mistake. How much would it cost to put those safeguards in place?"

      "Around $500 or so." He saw the grimace I made and said "Well, sir; let me ask you this; if you lost everything you have stored in that computer, and the only way to get it back would cost that much, would you mind if they rang that amount on the cash register?"

      Beep...

      "Immediately. That computer has our computer records, health records, bills, financial statements...I would have to!"

      "Then why not pay that much to make sure you don't lose it?

      I stared at him for a second and then grinned. "You've sold me, Bobby. When could you come back and set that type of system up for me?"

      "Well, I'll be through setting things up at Mr. Johnson's in less than an hour, so we could-" He was interrupted by a loud crash outside, and a flickering of the lights before the power went out, followed by a car horn.

      Beep...

      We looked at each other, and then headed for the door to see if we could tell what had caused it.

      There was my wife's car, sitting under the power pole she had accidentally swiped; the pole lay across the hood.

      She wasn't moving.

      Beep...

      And now, here I sit at her bedside, holding her hand while the heart monitor lets me know everything is okay with every beep. They think she'll be okay, but they're not sure yet; they need information on her history. The power surge from her accident fried my hard drive; all of our records are gone.

      Beep...

      Medical history, insurance information, financial information...it's all gone. I even had a hassle getting her registered at the hospital. I don't need this right now; I've got to concentrate on her.

      Beep...

      While I wait for my insurance agent, our family doctor and the bank to get our records together and get them to us here at the hospital, all I can think is...

      Beep...

      Why didn't anyone tell me about UPS and data backups a week ago? Why?

      Beep...

      Why?

      Beep...

      WHY!?!
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Dave,

        That's a powerful spin. And a hell of a first pass!


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          I know that I don't have a prayer of coming close to Paul's work. The man has a way of making you FEEL things that I can only strive for.

          But, to be honest, I don't have to compete in Paul's league to still command a decent price. This is a man who could easily surpass the $1 per word mark and still be giving the buyer a hell of a bargain.

          Others in this thread did very well in coming up with a twist although I'd have to say that Dave came the closest in bringing home the pain of that situation.

          I know that my work provides a value beyond what I charge and that's really all I need to know.

          As Paul stated and Bev has repeatedly stated, you need to go beyond this little corner of the world to find the market that is willing to pay your rates. I've had people tell me that my rates are too high and others that tell me I'm charging too little.

          Perception is everything.

          Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author ocon9316
    Paul, I'm not going to pretend that this is even close to yours, but I figured what the heck so I whipped this bad-boy up. Took me about 20 minutes. It has been awhile since I've really had someone critique my work though so this could be a useful exercise.


    *******************************************

    "Yeah, ok Keith. We'll go get food as soon as I finish this lab report. Jesus man, college isn't so easy for those of us in a real major and not 'The Philosophy of the Simpsons.'"

    "Haha, shutup dude; that was a class. The major is 'Golden Age Philosophy for Modern Day,'" he said, flashing a goofy, self-deprecating smile.

    "Right, right. How foolish of me. Seriously though man, I just need to finish up this report on the synthesis of azo dyes for Organic Chem. Then we will eat. I'm almost done and this crap has taken me weeks, so if you'd give me just another ten minutes of silence I'll buy your Big Mac."

    "Ok, ok. Ten minutes." Keith opened the door to our dorm room. "Synthesis of azo dyes...God you're a nerd." He closed the door behind him.

    I continued with my report, relieved to be nearing the end of a month long project, from the pre-lab lecture to two weeks of grueling lab work collecting data to the write-up. I'd been working on writing the report itself for a solid two days. Professor Kumler was a real stickler on lab reports; the rumor was that in his 22 years of teaching the lab, no one had ever gotten a perfect score on a lab report. I was determined to change that.

    Just as I was hitting the save button on my masterpiece, Keith came stumbling back into the room, yanking up his sagging jeans behind him.

    "Um, today! Its ten o'clock at night and I haven't eaten since six! I'm hunggrrryyy. If you don't stop playing with your Lazlo dyes and drive me to Mickey D's, I'm sorry, but I'll be forced to find a new chauffeur. Ooh, maybe a female chauffeur!"

    "Azo dyes," I laughed, hitting the save button again. "And I'm ready. Let's go."

    **************************

    As I pulled into the student parking lot, returning from our gourmet fast-food feast, I was immediately struck by the darkness.

    "Sweet!! Power outage! Let's go creep around one of the freshman girls' dorms!!" Clearly, Keith was a born philosopher.

    "Funny. But I'm exhausted. I'm gonna go lay down and wait for the power to come back on."

    "Why? So you'll have light to read your 'biochemical synthetic molecular reactions' books by?" He said the scientific terms in his best "nerd voice." A voice that I was quickly growing tired of.

    "Yeah, something like that."

    As we walked into the main entrance of the dorm, the power suddenly kicked back on.

    "Awright buddy!" Keith said, clapping me on the back. "Now you can play with your Rubik's Cube!"

    I had to laugh.

    Once we got to our room I plopped down on the bed, ready for sleep after a long day of schoolwork. Five minutes later, I was fast asleep.

    "Uhh, buddy. Hey. ERIC!" Keith shook me out of my sleep. "Um hey can I use your computer? Joey just told me about this great new website that has videos of kids falling off their bikes!!"

    "Jesus Keith, yeah that's fine. You really need to get your own computer." I shrugged off the bedspread and got up. "I guess I might as well check my email now that I'm awake." I sighed.

    "You've only been asleep twenty minutes dude, don't act like I shook you out of hibernation."

    I headed over to my computer and hit the power button, rubbing my eyes.
    Nothing happened. I hit the power button again and nothing.

    "Um...what the hell?" I began to feel panic slowly creeping into my stomach. Not only was this computer a 2500 dollar machine that was only 3 months old, but the report I had worked so hard on for the past few weeks was on there, and wasn't saved anywhere else!

    "Oh no dude. The power outage must have fried your business."

    "What do you mean?" I asked, afraid to hear the answer.

    Keith went into the intricacies of power surges and outages and the havoc they can wreak on electronics.

    "Yeah, but I have a surge protector."

    "For being a nerd, you really are pretty dumb." Keith said. "Those things don't do diddly. I can't believe you don't have a UPS!"

    "What's a UPS?"

    "Uninterruptable power supply. It protects your computer like a surge protector is supposed to and it acts as a backup battery when the power goes out. It is really the only thing that can protect your data from Mother Nature."

    "Well, I don't have a UPS and my report is on there and I'm totally screwed now!" I was about to start sobbing.

    "Relax dude, I might be able to fix this bad Jesse yet." Keith said with a confident grin.

    "I will do anything if you do, Keith."

    "Ok, now it is your turn to leave the room. Give me like 30 minutes and I'll see what I can do. Go grab Joey and tell him I need his laptop."

    "Ok." I hurried off like a fireman racing into a burning house to get Joey.

    After thirty-five panic filled minutes, Keith finally called me back into the room. I don't know what he did, I don't know how in the world he did it, but when I walked back into the room he had the computer up and running, with Queen playing out of the speakers. He was dancing like a goofball to "Don't Stop Me Now" and singing his own parody lyrics about what a genius he is.

    I ran to the machine and looked for my report. There it was, carefully filed under "Important Chem Stuff - DON'T DELETE!" I looked back at Keith, a huge smile beginning to form on my face. He was shaking his bottom at me and singing "that's what they call me mister fix it right!" to the Queen song.

    I hugged him. I couldn't help it. He had just saved my butt.

    "Whoa, ok. Settle down dude. No need to get all Lifetime Channel on me. Tomorrow we'll go to the campus bookstore and I'll show you the best UPS to get and some other backup tools that you really need so this doesn't happen again. Stuff like backup DVDs, an external hard drive and a USB thumb-drive. Plus, you can't really call yourself a true nerd unless you have a full arsenal of geeky computer peripherals."

    "Keith, I can't thank you enough. You just saved my whole semester. There is no way Dr. Kumler would buy the 'my computer crashed' excuse....even if it is true."

    "I know, I know. I rule." Keith smiled. "Not bad for a Philosophy major, huh?"

    "You should switch to Computer Science or something, you're brilliant with this stuff!" I said.

    "Computer science? Forget that. That sounds like a lot of work and would cut into my sleeping, eating, and sitting around time. Not to mention my 'getting so drunk on the weekends that I can't stand' time."

    He may have zero ambition or aspirations and be one lazy kid, but in my eyes Keith is a genius. On that particular night, he was also my hero.
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    Something funny, clever and original.

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  • Profile picture of the author superdad220
    I think basing the buying decision on price is wrong. It is a combination of price and quality that matter
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  • Profile picture of the author Guy G.
    Hi,

    I'm part of a blogging team working on one site, so I could only speak for one vote out of four.

    In the future we will be working on other sites and will need to outsource our writing so that we'll have time for the more important things.

    I think I'd pay $1,000 for an article so long as it could prove to be a valuable investment. What I mean is, if that article brought in so much sales, traffic etc. that my revenue as a result of posting it was well over the $1000, then yes, I'd pay. I think the writer would also have to be responsible for uploading the article to various social bookmarking sites as well as spinning it for different article directories if I was going to pay this price.

    All in all, I think what I'm saying, is that if you could provide enough proof for the value of a professionally written article, then people shouldn't have any problem paying upwards of $20-$50. You just have to show them that their return will far outweigh the investment

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
      Originally Posted by Guy G. View Post

      In the future we will be working on other sites and will need to outsource our writing so that we'll have time for the more important things.
      And this is part of the reason for "The Great Price Divide"...quite a few folks in the IM world put "content" near or at the bottom of the importance list.

      Not saying you do, Guy, and I understand your point, but I believe the point that Paul, Bev et al were trying to make is that in the IM world, no one seems to think that the quality of the writing is as important as the other parts of their business...it's "quantity over quality".

      In the direct mail world, it's not unusual for people to pay $4,000 and up for a quality sales letter that converts well. Why? Because the money it will bring in is a MUCH bigger amount.

      Originally Posted by Guy G. View Post

      I think the writer would also have to be responsible for uploading the article to various social bookmarking sites as well as spinning it for different article directories if I was going to pay this price.
      This is another interesting point; if someone can write an article for $1,000 that will bring in $10,000 in sales, why would they need to provide additional services? Only with writers (and mainly online) does this attitude prevail. Trust me; I can make more spending that time writing for someone else.

      Do you ask your lawn care guy to vaccuum the house while he's there, for the same fee? Do you require that a local artist come over and touch up the walls in your den if you buy their painting? Next time you get a TV repaired, ask the repairman if he'll organize your DVD collection for the same price. He won't, because you're paying for their specific talents and abilities. Period.

      Trust me; those direct response mail clients don't require you to stuff the envelopes before they'll pay that amount, because it doesn't matter how pretty their envelope and paper stock is (or how well-designed their website is)...it's the content that drives customers to take action. PERIOD. There are some REALLY crappy-looking websites that convert very well; it's not because of the header graphic.

      If you want copy or articles of a high quality level, you have to PAY at a high level; this is why a brand-new Masarati costs a ton of money, but a knock-off that looks almost exactly like it costs a fraction of the same amount. You're paying for quality.

      I'm not knocking you at ALL, Guy, so please don't take this as an attack, because it's certainly not meant to be...yours is the prevelant attitude online toward writers. For example...this thread. (See? You're immediately light-years ahead of THAT guy.)

      Higher quality will give you higher results. If that weren't the case, no one would pay the higher amounts that are paid elsewhere. Unfortunately (as Paul said), most folks hiring writers in the IM world wouldn't know effective writing if it walked up and bit them on the ass. (Again, not necessarily you, Guy...I have no idea if you can judge writing ability, although I would tend to think that you can, judging from your post.)
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    In the IM world, no one seems to think that the quality of the writing is as important as the other parts of their business...it's "quantity over quality".
    Who says that? Every webmaster/site owner will agree that nothing is better than good, valuable and helpful content. But i STILL dont need to shell out $1000 to go there.

    I also highly disagree with your Maserati comparison, Maserati might VERY WELL make quality cars - but in reality what people often pay for is actually status and branding - it has NOTHING to do with quality.

    As for a writer's skill and legitimation to charge a lot of money, and in regards to "...if the $1000 article brings me traffic". Example:

    Bev and the others might very well be great writers, but there is more to it, namely SEO. If i were an "accredited" writer with the best and most exciting, sales-boosting writing style i still could have no idea about SEO whatsoever. SEO and keyword research for your typical "internet article" might be rather what will decide how much traffic you will getting, and NOT the "quality" of your article.

    The worst which can happen that your "super quality" article is well researched and literally explodes of the best information - but it has failed in terms of generated traffic since it didnt take ANY SEO knowledge into account. Noone would find that article on Google. (Assuming that you would not put an article on an already WELL known and visited blog, THEN you dont need care about SEO.)

    Just saying there is more to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
      A couple of good points, George, especially on the Masarati analogy; branding and status do have a LOT to do with that type of purchase, if not the vast majority of the reasoning. You're exactly right; my fault on that one completely.

      And yes, SEO determines the amount of traffic you get from an article; the quality of the article determines what that traffic does. Getting them there is very important, but so is getting them to take action when they DO get there, even if it's just to click on the link in your resource box at an article directory.

      You can SEO a million hits a day to an article or website; if what they see when they get there doesn't prompt them to take action, who cares?

      And no, no one is going to pay $1000 per article for internet marketing; however, no one should expect to get the best results from $1 per 100 words, either, which is an amount I see thrown about quite a bit. Again, the prevalent attitude is that "Content is king!...right after SEO, and site design..." and on and on.

      The original point was that IM is NOT the place to look for decent pay for writing ability, which you have just backed up beautifully. To quote Paul from earlier in the thread:

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      You need to look at the market. If all someone wants is keyword-fodder, there's little sense in paying the rates asked by a skilled writer. It's not a smart business move. Nothing wrong with that decision.

      The thing you need to keep in mind is that, just as most of the alleged "writers" who sell articles here suck at writing, most of the buyers here can't really "read." They don't know enough about writing to tell the difference between word salad and skillfully crafted prose. I've seen people here swear that so-and-so produces top quality content, only to look at it and wonder if they've ever read anything more advanced than "Fun with Dick and Jane."

      Yes, that comment will irritate some of the members. That doesn't make it any less true. This is not the proper market for a disciplined and talented wordsmith.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post


      Bev and the others might very well be great writers, but there is more to it, namely SEO. If i were an "accredited" writer with the best and most exciting, sales-boosting writing style i still could have no idea about SEO whatsoever. SEO and keyword research for your typical "internet article" might be rather what will decide how much traffic you will getting, and NOT the "quality" of your article.
      Georg, I just want to give you another point of view. Writing isn't only about SEO.

      Paul wrote an article and he used a different spin to what marketers normally ask for. Imagine if you were looking for a product, telling a story (even if its a short article) saying why you would use a product, is a powerful way to sell it.

      I rarely write articles because most of my clients don't ask for articles. But, if you came to me to write your articles, I wouldn't just write stories for you. I would ask you what type of articles you want, which keywords you are using, do you want LSI, what voice you want. In other words I wouldn't assume anything, I would ask questions to give you the articles you had paid for.

      When a client comes and asks me to write a book for them, I follow the same format, of talking to the client to ensure we are singing from the same page.

      It is good you raised the point, because people hear a writer's price and don't totally understand why they charge the prices they do.

      I'm not an article writer, I could write articles, and I could produce fodder for the search engines. But, I decided not to go that route.

      In the past few months, I have written a manuscript for a publishing house, I have also written a screen film script. These are very different to writing SEO articles.

      This is something a lot of marketers don't take into consideration, when a writer says they charge xxx per word etc.

      Not all writers and writing is created equal, and comparing an article writer with a ghost writer will always give you a false value.

      As I said to the OP, if they have to ask the question they are looking in the wrong place.

      Asking a buyer what they are prepared to pay will get people saying I would never pay more than $5, you're ripping people off if you charge more than $10, or I would always pay $30 for an article.

      People have different budgets and different needs. The person who bought articles for EZA and paid $30 for each of them did so because the ROI justified it. Yes, I am talking from experience.

      The person who paid $5,000 for a book to be written did so because they knew their marketing plan and how it would generate tens of thousands of dollars for them.

      Would a $5 article give the person $100,000 in sales? Maybe, maybe not. Without knowing the exact purpose of any writing, it is impossible to say.

      The writer isn't going to give you the marketing plan, they might make suggestions, but the writer or rather a good writer will work to your specification and give you what you asked and paid for.

      Bev
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  • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Bjarne Eldhuset
      When I started working as a local newspaper journalist, one of the first things the boss made told me to do, was to read some local employment statistics and write an article.

      So I read the statistics, and wrote an article.

      A boring article.

      Because I thought the statistics were really boring.

      It took me a long time to write too.

      Unsurprisingly, my boss thought the article was boring too, and told me to write a new article, and focus on what effects the statistics had on people, see if there were trends to be seen from the changes in the statistics, get prognosises from experts, interview real people and so on.

      This became 2 pages of much more interesting content with a total of 5 articles in different sizes.

      And the best part? It took less time to write, and was much more fun.

      So what am I saying?

      Well, just that the more you pay for an article, the higher the chance usually is of getting the kind of writer that can look beyond the numbers and gather information and present it in new and interesting ways.

      None the less, I also agree with those saying an article can serve different purposes for a marketer, and that the price paid to a large extent reflects what the marketer is going to use the article for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tinkerbell
    The blog was live, had been for over a month now.

    My ten requisite articles were in place with ninety more
    showing up over time. I'd set them to auto-post every other
    day.

    I'd even paid for traffic.

    $150 worth.

    But I hadn't made a single sale.

    What was I doing wrong?

    I found out when "she" came in.

    ....

    It took less than ten minutes for her to reduce my hopes of
    being able to take her to Maui (she didn't know that was my
    plan) from excited and eager to completely non-existent.

    The worst part? She was right.

    But...let me back up a bit.

    I'd been looking into internet marketing for a while and had
    decided to go the route of using articles to drive traffic to
    a sales page from my blog.

    I started out with $700 to fund this endeavor, my "start-up"
    stash.

    Since I'm not much of a writer, I'd outsourced the articles -
    yes, the very essential pieces I needed to move visitors from
    my blog to the money-making page, to an article writer online.

    I'd heard so many times there was no need to try and be
    perfect. Heard countless folks say it wasn't necessary to be
    "really good" straight out of the gate - it just needed to be
    "good enough" - so I paid a writer $5 a piece for 100
    articles.

    It took over a month to get them, but the minute they arrived,
    I'd just skimmed them real quick and went to work getting
    everything set up online, looking forward to the day I could
    tell Jill to get a babysitter because we were going to Maui
    for a week.

    I could already imagine the look on her face.

    I rushed to get it all online and start making sales. If I was
    going to be able to take Jill to Maui, I needed to get the
    blog populated in a hurry and start making money - fast.

    I really should have read the articles first.

    ....

    Actually, I should say I ought to have read the "entire"
    article rather than just the titles.

    Once "she" pointed that out, and I started to read what I
    hadn't taken the time to look at before, I felt sick.

    My excitement about the surprise I had planned bottomed out
    and my enthusiasm for getting my fledgling affiliate marketing
    business off the ground went from 100% to zip in 1.5 seconds.

    My entire start-up effort hinged on those articles. I knew
    that, but...What had I done?

    I kept reading. One barely sensible, keyword stuffed, non-
    human readable article after another.

    I now knew why I hadn't made any sales. I'd been given search
    engine fodder when what I needed was presell magic.

    The articles I'd paid for were worthless...and "she" knew it.

    One glance at the disappointment in her eyes was all it took.

    My business attempt was a flat out failure, and I could see
    that to her, at that moment, so was I.

    I panicked.

    When the panic subsided, I mustered up the courage to ask,
    "What should I do?"

    She shrugged. "Call Mary."

    ....

    When Mary got there, she flipped through several of the
    articles, barely glancing at each one before going to the
    next, and said, "Doug, this won't work. You shouldn't even be
    using this."

    Before I could get out the words, "I know," she said, "Let's
    see if any of it is salvagable. Why'd you go with cheap
    articles, anyway?"

    She started making notes on a notepad beside my laptop, and
    since she didn't really seem to expect an answer (I guess she
    figured there wasn't any reasonable one for that question) I
    kept my mouth shut.

    After a bit of skimming and writing on the notebook beside
    her, she said, "The good news is, some of the titles are
    workable."

    "The bad news?" I asked.

    "Everything else will have to be scrapped, your topic actually
    researched and the articles written from scratch. How's your
    research skills, kiddo?"

    I could feel my face redden. "Uh, not real good."

    She just shook her head, opened an internet browser window on
    my laptop, and said, "This could take a while."

    She visited a few sites online, asked several over-the-
    shoulder questions about my site and my intentions for the
    blog, the affiliate site I planned to drive traffic to, and
    what my overall goal was with starting this thing to begin
    with.

    I told her my plan was to use articles to drive traffic with
    my blog to my affiliate sales page. I wanted to raise enough
    money to take Jill to Maui as a surprise for our anniversary.

    After ten years of marriage, dealing with the kids and me
    while working a full-time job with no time at all for rest, I
    figured she deserved it.

    I'd planned it months before - and two weeks later, I'd lost
    my job. Our savings had been drained to pay the bills my
    salary no longer paid.

    So I'd turned to the internet with hopes of making some money
    online.

    Armed with $700 and an internet connection, I'd read up on
    affiliate marketing a bit, grabbed a domain name and hosting,
    and picked a product to promote.

    Then I'd paid someone to write articles for me.

    Mary digested it all and then she asked me one more question:
    "So...you seriously thought to drive traffic with 'this'?"

    Of course I did. My face got hot. "Yes."

    She glanced back through the articles, and arched a brow. "oh
    -kaaay..."

    She started talking about how the articles I had now weren't
    even written by a native English speaker.

    I told her I hadn't made any sales. She wasn't surprised.

    She said it was the articles. Said I probably would have made
    money immediately if I'd paid $100 a piece for just five
    articles from a professional writer than I'd have trying to
    use these.

    I remembered there were writers online who charged that and
    more. I also remembered thinking paying that much for an
    article was insane.

    Now, I wasn't so sure.

    Then, Mary dropped the bomb that really shocked me.

    She said it looked like the outsourcer I'd hired online had
    just turned around and outsourced the writing I paid her to do
    to someone out of the country.

    I'd paid her and she'd paid someone else a lot less to do the
    work for her and pocketed the difference - something I could
    have prevented had I asked the right questions before hiring
    her.

    Knowing it was my fault, that I had made it easy for the
    writer to benefit from screwing me over made me sick to my
    stomach all over again.

    Mary scribbled a few more notes, grabbed my notebook and the
    pen she'd been using, and said, "Come on. We're going to the
    library."

    I grabbed my coat, and as we were headed out the door, she
    asked, "By the way, if you have to start all over with a new
    writer, think you'll still have time to raise the money to
    take Jill to Maui?"

    The bleak look in my eyes was answer enough.

    ....

    When we got to the library, Mary went to the stacks and
    started pulling down books.

    One glance at the pile of tomes she dropped onto the table
    several minutes later assured me this wasn't going to be a
    one-hour trip.

    I took off my jacket and found a magazine to occupy myself
    while she read.

    Four hours later, we left the library and headed back to the
    house.

    ....

    Mary sat down with her notes at my laptop and kind of fell
    into a trance.

    I almost succumbed myself, listening to the hypnotic "click,
    click, click" of her fingers on the keyboard while she typed.

    It was another two hours before she finally gave a satisfied
    sigh and pushed away from the desk.

    "Okay, here's what I've done," she said. "First, I had a look
    at the sales page of the product you're going to be driving
    traffic to, to get a feel for the market you're targeting.

    "If you don't know what the market wants, you aren't going to
    be able to reach them with your words, your articles. So a bit
    of preliminary market research was first.

    "I also took note of what the product promises to do for those
    who buy it. Benefits, you know. It helps if you can get your
    reader to picture himself as owning those benefits in your
    articles. Helps get her to click the link to the sales page.

    "But looking at the sales page wasn't enough. That's why we
    went to the library - for facts."

    Those "facts" had taken her four hours to unearth. Not to
    mention the time it had taken her to do the "market research"
    she'd done - that I hadn't even been aware of.

    I was beginning to understand why some writers felt justified
    charging $50 to $100 or more per article.

    "I've put together two articles - one that will appeal to your
    female visitors, and another that will appeal to the males. Those
    will do for starters. But you're going to need a few
    more, to reach the on-the-fencers and the skepticals. Gotta
    use a slightly different angle to get their attention.

    She stood up and stretched. I could tell she was beat, but
    still she said, "I will write those articles tomorrow, after
    work, and send them to you through email."

    I walked her to the door and thanked her for her help. Then I
    went to my laptop and began the arduous task of removing all
    the unusable articles from my blog.

    Then, I posted up the two articles Mary had written.

    I was out of money, so there would be no more driving traffic
    via pay-per-click. I did the only other thing I knew to do. I
    hit the forums with a link in my signature file.

    Maybe, just maybe, it would work.

    ....

    The next morning, I opened my email with reluctance. What I
    saw there made my eyes light up, and my heart beat faster.

    I'd made a sale!

    A few hours later, I made another sale. And then another.

    That evening, three more articles arrived in my inbox from
    Mary, as promised.

    I read them from start to finish, a grin on my face the entire
    time.

    Perfectly structured, no grammatical errors, and filled with
    intriguing facts and fun information that my readers would
    love - I knew this was the kind of articles I should have had
    from the beginning.

    But more than that, the articles weren't dreary textbook
    drivel - you know - the kind of stuff you hated to read in
    school?

    They were brimming over with real personality, a quality I
    knew would help my readers connect with what was being said.

    To me, Mary was a "professional." Her research and writing
    skills had saved my hide, and I knew it.

    I added the articles to my blog, and went back to the forums
    to chat, more excited now than ever.

    ....

    Our trip to Maui was incredible - but more than that, it might
    have been responsible for saving our marriage. While we were
    gone, Jill told me she'd been thinking about separating for a
    while...

    But that's another story.

    Jill and I arrived home from Maui only a few hours before Mary
    called, stunned.

    "Doug, I couldn't believe it! The check you sent...it's
    $1,500! Do you really want me to cash this?"

    I laughed.

    Of course I wanted her to cash it, I told her. After all, it
    was her skills as a writer that helped me earn it. Not to
    mention the lesson I'd learned.

    That was worth a whole lot more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tinkerbell
    Hi Lincoln,

    No worries. As Paul said, he wrote his article in the storytelling style to show how one could sell using stories. Yeah, I piggy-backed off his style (a lot), but if I were writing a "just the facts, Jack" article, it would look much different.

    Actually, with a few days to stew over it, the one I wrote above would look much different, but I hurried. Just like the guy in my story. Should have known better, huh? lol.

    Different markets need different styles and different angles. Why? Because all people are different, and that's what needs to be remembered. You're marketing, whether through ads or articles or whatever, to PEOPLE.
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  • Profile picture of the author Erica Leggette
    I would pay $20 for an article probably one time just to see if it's worth it. But I would surely have to be pulling in some serious dough.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisag
    I charge $40 per article and up. Those that understand the value of a well-researched article that holds them out as a subject matter expert don't blink an eye.

    Those who think I'm too expensive don't hire me. Most people who hire me also hire less expensive writers for their every day "blow em out" articles. They come to me for the "special" articles.

    I have four blog clients who buy 300 words per day each from me, five days per week. They pay .10 per word and they are very pleased with the quality of their blog articles.

    There's a buyer for every seller, and plenty of work to go around at all price points.
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  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    Yes I would, 2000 word article

    Sadly, writing services on this level are worth almost nothing. As you know, can have a professional 400 word article written for $4-$5, maybe even less.

    I wouldn't even consider it, it sounds utterly soul destroying. If I were a good writer based on the internet, I'd get into copywriting and high end content writing.

    By the same token, as Lisa just pointed out - there's a buyer for every seller and a well researched, expertly written article is priceless.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      GeorgR said:
      Bev and the others might very well be great writers, but there is more to it, namely SEO.
      That assumes a significant function of the article is to get traffic or other SE benefits. Not everyone uses content that way. If you do, fine. I'm not saying that's a problem, as you'll note from my previous comments. I do suggest, however, that the overwhelming majority of the people I've seen who do that kind of work are not "writers" by any reasonable standard. They're keyword hacks. Entirely different skill set.

      The thing to keep in mind is the desired result. A lot of people and companies get their traffic in ways that have little to do with the skills used by most of the "article writers" you'll find selling their wares for $1 or $3 an hour. They're interested in content that motivates an action after the visitor gets there, rather than just attracting clicks to the site.

      Yes, the sets can be combined. That requires a bit more skill than just the sum of the two.

      Consider how the better quality writing is used, and you'll see who'll pay for it. Content publications, both print and digital, need quality material if they're going to maintain and grow an audience. Magazines are the classic example.

      Affiliate programs need solid content that can be for training or for use in pre-selling. A story piece like the one above is a powerful pre-selling tool, if it resonates with the reader.

      Info-marketers need products. That keyword-stuffed crap ain't gonna cut it for anything with an actual price tag.

      E-courses are pretty powerful tools, if they're done right. Very nearly none of them are.

      Then there are the experts who know their subjects cold, but don't know how to write for a mass audience in an engaging way. A skilled writer can take a loose collection of good ideas and anecdotes and turn it into best-seller material.

      For most of these things, your "SEO hacks" would be worse than useless. They'd be actively dangerous.

      Every one of those project types can pay very well. Certainly far beyond what the majority of people who claim in marketing forums to be "professional writers" are likely to command.

      Tina covered one of the most important differences when she said, "a way of making you FEEL things." The only problem is that most people think that's a problem. That it's somehow difficult. It isn't, really. You just need to empathize with the feelings of the people you're talking to.

      In the story example I used, the formula was intended as a way to free up the writer's brain and let them focus on the individuals. I know people in both of those positions, so it was just a matter of giving them names and letting them talk.

      You don't make people feel things. You talk to feelings they already have.

      The way to do that is to talk to only one person.

      Do that, and even writing on grammar and data backups can be interesting and engaging. Leave it out, and you might as well be spray painting a breeze for all the good you're going to do.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author GaryTwist
    [QUOTE=James Seward;1612820]Hi Warriors,

    As some of you might now I am a professional writer.

    Are you serious? It looks like you need to watch for typos before calling yourself a professional writer. I found an excellent ghost writer on elance for $5 articles, but she won't do much research. It just depends on what kind of articles you need.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Any article writer that tells me they write SEO friendly articles I pretty much don't talk to again. A writer's idea of SEO'ing an article usually means putting "keyword" in every line. That's a habit that, I've found, is very hard to break even when you tell them to pay no attention to keywords.
      Lincoln - You can write SEO friendly articles that still read well and resonate with humans. Unfortunately, the "writers" you are referring to were taught by marketers to stuff their articles full of keywords - remember the days of people saying 10% keyword density was needed?

      I really think that if you want articles for marketing purposes that you should look for a writer that has marketing knowledge and skills. Otherwise, you are likely miscommunicating because you are speaking two different languages.
      Tina covered one of the most important differences when she said, "a way of making you FEEL things." The only problem is that most people think that's a problem. That it's somehow difficult. It isn't, really. You just need to empathize with the feelings of the people you're talking to.
      Paul - I never thought I would say this but you are wrong. It isn't difficult for YOU. You do this so naturally and so well that you don't see it for the art that it is. If it was easy, more of us would have contracts with publishers. You have a facility for words that very few of us have. And that's okay as it gives us a model to follow and improve our skills.

      Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
    Hey Paul,

    Thanks for prompting that exercise. As a newbie to the field who is still feeling his way through the swamp of what flies and what doesn't, I found the whole thing very instructive.

    Let me say this: I'm an educated reader. Like most people competent to surf the Internet in search of meaningful contributions, I consider myself and my time to be worthwhile commodities. And much of what I encounter online is patently offensive to my intelligence.

    Paul (again): thank you not only for prompting the exercise, but also for your "article" contribution. Yours was the only submission I could actually make it through from start to finish. I went in with no preconceptions, and by the time I finished, I was opening another tab to research data protection and backup. I can think of no higher praise I could lavish upon a piece of IM writing, and if I encountered that in the online jungle, I would happily click any relevant affiliate links.

    Most of the "stories" suffered from one primary fault: they lacked focus. When it takes more than a few lines to get to the tension, you lose readership. Every time. Twenty lines of backstory might as well be a huge arrow pointing to the "click to another page" button.

    Other submissions, even one from a professional writer, had grammar and usage errors that rendered the pieces practically unreadable.

    $20 would be a stone-cold bargain for a piece that grabbed the reader's attention, got them to the bottom of the page, and coerced a relevant action from the reader (whether that action was to click an affiliate link, or simply to remember the site and come back again).

    For anything less, even a $5 investment almost HAS to be doing more harm than good. For even a well-written article or story that doesn't either inform WELL, or else grip and coerce the reader, you might as well flush money down the crapper. I can only imagine how the average site is being crippled by the word salad that comes from even cheaper professionally-written fare.

    Again, thanks. It's been instructive.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    Originally Posted by James Seward View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    As some of you might now I am a professional writer.

    One thing that amazes me is that you can get an article done for $5 or less online. Now don't get me wrong (and please do not be ofended) but some of these "writers" DO NOT know how to write.

    I focus on delivering value, professional writing. If I want to outsource graphic design I look for good designers. Now I do understand that some people need those $5 workers and others can afford to pay a little more.

    For those who can afford it, would you be willing to pay, say, $20, $30, $50 for an article? And just out of curiosity, for those who don't have the money to invest, let's imagine you had: would you be willing to invest that for an article?

    I am just trying to understand if everyone thinks $5 is good or there are people out there willing to give a little more to get a little bit more quality!

    Best
    James
    Depends on how long the article is.

    I would be willing to pay $20 for a 500 to 600 word article sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bob Monie
    For sure, but has to be either super link bait or 2000 words, hehe.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Tina,
      I never thought I would say this but you are wrong.
      Frequently. Especially in cases like this, where people can make me wrong simply by wishing for something other than what I've said.
      It isn't difficult for YOU. You do this so naturally and so well that you don't see it for the art that it is.
      You've got that 100% backwards, ma'am. It is a natural thing that we can all do, right up until we become convinced that it's somehow a learned thing.

      Like many tasks, we make it difficult by choosing the wrong tools.

      If there's any art to what I do, it's very limited. It's the ability to set my ego down for a bit and see and feel things from the other guy's side. We're all born with that ability. We just need to remember it. To unlearn the idea that we're all that different from anyone else.

      Words are nothing compared to the feeling of being understood.


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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Powers
    Even $5 per article,still many guys are willing to do that.You have to admit it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
      Originally Posted by Steve Powers View Post

      Even $5 per article,still many guys are willing to do that.You have to admit it.
      Nobody has ever said there aren't $5 per article writers around.

      Just because there are McD, Burger King and Wendy's around does that mean you still pay less than $5 for a kobe burger?
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      • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
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        • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
          Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post

          You know, I understand that there are different reasons to pay a writer more or less. The site owner could like the work they do, trust them, know them, or like the personal touch.

          Likewise, a writer could take less because he/she knows the site owner, knows they will pay, provides steady work, and gets a per word rate that results in a satisfactory hourly rate for them.

          But it annoys me to no end when you see comments like the one above. I find it so incredibly arrogant and condescending. And that is on about every forum I visit there are always article writers trying to convince people that if they pay lower prices than whatever they deem acceptable, they are going to get garbage.

          If you can charge higher prices and your clients are happy, then go for it. But I suspect if you constantly need to make the case that you're worth more, then you're really not.
          What annoys me most, is the people who read a zillion thing in a simple comment. If you read my previous comments, I haven't said people shouldn't charge whatever they want to charge.

          I was agreeing with the person there were $5 article writers around.

          I was also stating if you need to read the meaning in my words, there are different qualities which clients need for different projects.

          Anything else was your imagination or way of jumping on one comment to prove how offended you were.

          BTW. I am not an article writer, never have been, never will be, so don't put a label on someone you don't know.

          I don't convince people of my prices, I tell them my price, they either buy or walk away.
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          • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
            Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

            What annoys me most, is the people who read a zillion thing in a simple comment. If you read my previous comments, I haven't said people shouldn't charge whatever they want to charge.

            I was agreeing with the person there were $5 article writers around.

            I was also stating if you need to read the meaning in my words, there are different qualities which clients need for different projects.

            Anything else was your imagination or way of jumping on one comment to prove how offended you were.

            BTW. I am not an article writer, never have been, never will be, so don't put a label on someone you don't know.

            I don't convince people of my prices, I tell them my price, they either buy or walk away.
            I think the offense was with the specific analogy you chose.

            If you want to say that it is fine for some people to dine at Ponderosa, while others prefer Ruth's Chris, then that's one thing. Both sell steaks. The difference is one of presentation and price.

            When you compare McDonald's to kobe beef, however, you are asserting that the difference is more than one of perception. You are saying then that one is fundamentally superior in quality and kind.

            Frankly, I was taken aback also. I do trust you, however, if you say the slight was unintentional.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            If there's any art to what I do, it's very limited. It's the ability to set my ego down for a bit and see and feel things from the other guy's side. We're all born with that ability. We just need to remember it. To unlearn the idea that we're all that different from anyone else.
            I can feel things from the other guy's point of view. But I can't get those feelings across like I've seen you do, Paul. Perhaps with practice, I can learn to do so. Some things do come from talent, though, and I think you put too little weight on your talent.

            I believe that some people can create pictures with words the way artists do with paint. Sure, we can all learn to paint a tree but not all of us will be able to make people feel the breeze.

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            • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
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              • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
                Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post

                I don't know how I had mistaken you for a writer. You tagline below your name says "Writer" and you have about 5 links to writing offers. But either way, I won't split hairs, how bout you take money in exchange for providing words..whether you write them or not.

                And I don't care if people charge more for writing. But you have tons of newbies reading the boards at all time. I think it's a little irresponsible to say that if you pay less you're getting a Wendy's hamburger vs. paying more and getting Kobe beef.

                If that's not what you meant then fine. But the analogy seems to say that higher price equals superior value. Basically putting down both the purchaser and the writer who don't pay what you would consider to be acceptable rates. Not to mention not considering other factors for why a particular writer might take a lower wage (regular work for example)

                I probably wouldn't have that opinion if your signature didn't have all those links to writing offers.
                Whoa, there, soldier. She didn't say she wasn't a writer...read her entire sentence:

                BTW. I am not an article writer, never have been, never will be, so don't put a label on someone you don't know.
                There are other kinds of writing.

                I do have a couple of questions, though; so, in your opinion there aren't different quality levels of writing? One writer is just as good as any other?

                I don't believe that's what you meant, because if it were it would be incredibly naive'.

                And again, it depends on the use you want to put your writing to, and what type it is. It's not a blanket rule, but in a lot of cases you do get what you pay for.

                That's a cliche' for a reason.

                That's not to say that there aren't some very talented writers that work for next-to-nothing (relatively speaking); but are you saying that there is no difference between an article written by someone that gets a rate of $5 per article and one written that routinely gets paid $.10 per word?

                Keep in mind that's not a "hypothetical"; there are plenty of folks that get that rate on a regular basis, and the person paying it is happy.

                I have one other question for everyone: since the golden rule of IM is "Test, test, test"...has anyone ever actually TESTED which type of article drives the most traffic and/or conversions, or is this the ONE area of IM where you don't bother to test because you think already know the answer?

                Everyone split-tests keywords, website design, sales letters, autoresponders...anyone ever tested THIS? If not, it's the only thing I've seen that you "just know".

                Why not get that sales page copy written for $5; I mean, it really doesn't make any difference in the long run.

                Again, if you're putting your link under an article, that article is representing your business. In fact, it's the first interaction with your business that a potential customer has.

                If someone is charging $5 per article that has talent, pretty soon they'll be booked solid with work, which will cause them to raise their rates until they are no longer slammed with orders. If they don't raise them, they'll either burn out, the quality will suffer and they'll move on to something else before you know it.

                Why do some writers charge more? Demand. Why do some writers charge less? To create demand. What brings demand?

                Quality.
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                • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Oxbloom,
                    When you compare McDonald's to kobe beef, however, you are asserting that the difference is more than one of perception. You are saying then that one is fundamentally superior in quality and kind.
                    I'd be more likely to suggest a difference more akin to that between Chicken McNuggets and a gourmet dinner. Both are acceptable for their purpose, but one is clearly superior in every way.

                    That said, one needs to remember that some things which are offered as food are unfit for consumption. Many of the articles I've seen sold as WSOs would fit somewhere around "moldy strips of dead rat" on the food scale.

                    Lincoln,
                    And I don't care if people charge more for writing. But you have tons of newbies reading the boards at all time. I think it's a little irresponsible to say that if you pay less you're getting a Wendy's hamburger vs. paying more and getting Kobe beef.
                    I think what is being said here is that you're unlikely to get Kobe beef at a McChicken price.

                    I think it's extremely irresponsible for people to steer everyone who thinks of writing to the shallow end of the talent pool, where their skills are equated with those of a barely English-literate teenager.

                    For the most part, this abusive behavior is conducted by those who want to keep the price of content as low as possible. They say stupid things like, "There's no way an article is worth more than $5. Ever." If they said something like, "I don't need professional writing. I need short, quick content for search engine ranking of long-tail keyphrases, and that skill is not worth more than $X a piece to me," I wouldn't argue with them.

                    There are many levels of writing skill. You generally pay the appropriate price for the skill level that suits yours. And yes, sometimes you'll run into someone who charges less than the market would bear. Suggesting, however, that the higher skill levels are not legitimately superior and more valuable is simply lying. Or astonishingly stupid. And I don't really care much if that comment torques some people off.

                    No, that last statement isn't quite true. I hope it does aggravate some folks. Some people require shaking to wake them from their sleep.
                    If you AREN'T booking your schedule because you're charging a higher rate, then I would argue that you're not worth that price....no matter what you think your quality is.
                    Nonsense. It usually means that your marketing needs work.

                    And for the record, I do not do writing for clients any more. I haven't for a long time. I have no horse in this race.

                    Tina,
                    I believe that some people can create pictures with words the way artists do with paint. Sure, we can all learn to paint a tree but not all of us will be able to make people feel the breeze.
                    If you can write that paragraph, you can write as well as anyone.


                    Paul
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                    • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
                      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                      Oxbloom,I'd be more likely to suggest a difference more akin to that between Chicken McNuggets and a gourmet dinner. Both are acceptable for their purpose, but one is clearly superior in every way.

                      That said, one needs to remember that some things which are offered as food are unfit for consumption. Many of the articles I've seen sold as WSOs would fit somewhere around "moldy strips of dead rat" on the food scale.

                      Paul
                      Hi Paul.

                      Thanks for taking the time to respond.

                      Just to clarify my position, I don't doubt, dispute, or otherwise disagree with the idea that some writers ARE literary Kobe beef while others are McNuggets. It was kind of you to rephrase for me, but unnecessary. I don't live in an ultra-liberal minded world where we have to act like everybody is exactly the same, and where everyone gets a big, gold trophy just for participating.

                      I only took issue with the comment because I feel one ought to think carefully and have very good reason before casting aspersions in a public forum.
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                  • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
                    Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post

                    Writer or article writer is splitting hairs. As you can see I clarified, you get paid for delivering words on a page. I'm not going to argue about what you call yourself.
                    Article writer or writer, marketer or carny barker...it's all the same, right? :rolleyes:

                    Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post

                    See, I think your last sentence is a good one. If you're booking your schedule with jobs at a certain rate, then the market is telling you that the quality warrants a price increase. If you AREN'T booking your schedule because you're charging a higher rate, then I would argue that you're not worth that price....no matter what you think your quality is.

                    So that's the problem I have with the campaign by some writers to convince people that a higher price equals higher quality. You don't need to convince anyone. You raise prices when your supply exceeds demand. Not just arbitrarily.
                    So, you're saying that quality will warrant a price increase, but higher price does not equal higher quality?

                    True, which was part of the point made back on page one...people in IM won't pay a high price, because when the market tells us that the quality warrants a price increase, the writer won't get work. Why? Because (it seems to me at least) that "it doesn't matter what you call yourself, a writer is a writer. I'd never pay more than $xx for a writer!"

                    Again, I ask of you or anyone: is this tested, verified FACT, or is this just what "everybody knows"? Also, if you haven't tested the conversion rates of differing qualities of writing, what other part of your business do you not test?

                    This isn't meant to be a smart question, I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen anyone say "Well, I've split tested a $50 article from an extremely talented writer that took a week due to the amount of work they have against a $4 article from someone that delivered it in 6 hours, and there was no difference in response!"

                    Until you do that, everyone on both sides is just talking out of their butt with an unverified, untested opinion, which I don't think anyone would do with any other part...just the writing, which brings us back to the point Paul made back on page one...If you're looking for a market that pays writers based on quality, this ain't it, because most people in IM can't tell good writing from bad.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                      Perhaps it's time to start marketing and charging based on results. I recently wrote a piece for a client that has resulted in well over $500 in sales in less than a month and has shown no sign of slowing down.

                      I think it's pretty fair to say that he got one heck of a bargain.

                      For marketer's, the end result is what matters. If you can find a $5 writer that brings in that kind of return, wonderful. From the complaints seen time and time again right here on this board, I think that is a rarity.

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                      • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
                        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                        Perhaps it's time to start marketing and charging based on results. I recently wrote a piece for a client that has resulted in well over $500 in sales in less than a month and has shown no sign of slowing down.

                        I think it's pretty fair to say that he got one heck of a bargain.

                        For marketer's, the end result is what matters. If you can find a $5 writer that brings in that kind of return, wonderful. From the complaints seen time and time again right here on this board, I think that is a rarity.

                        Tina
                        I like this idea as one product I wrote is responsible for making the person 6 figures. I know they had to use and market it, so they are responsible for the sales
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                      • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
                        Ahem,

                        There's a perfect example of quality writing only 4 or 5 posts above !
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                        • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
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                          • Profile picture of the author lisag
                            Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post


                            You think that writers that might be charging $50/article would be willing to do that?
                            Lincoln. I'm game. How do you want to proceed?
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  • Profile picture of the author Trent Brownrigg
    If it were extremely well-written, 100% original, only written for me and never to be sold to anyone else, and really long... Yes I would pay $20 or more for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDawson
    Banned
    I would be willing to pay up TO 20$ per article, no more than that though. If you know that your content is of HIGH UNIQUE QUALITY, then you SHOULD get the most from your articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Gannon
    I would be glad to pay $20 for a 350 word article, as long as it was excellent quality and converted well into clicks to my website.
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  • Profile picture of the author ksburgess
    It depends. If the article was going to a directory, probably not. If it was for a mini-site or a review site, probably not.

    But for one of my authority sites, yes, I would pay that for an article. And early in my online days I was paid $20 to write an article related to my niche for a big authority site, so I think that's fair.

    I would expect the article to be well-researched, authoritative. And I would probably expect the writer to mimic my own voice and writing style
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  • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
      Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post

      Clearly!
      Play nice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
      OK then, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring...

      After a case of writer's block, I asked my husband to give me a few random topics to write a sales-oriented article on, one of them was for Charcoal BBQ's. Took me around 20 or 30 minutes to write (Australian spelling), hasn't been edited or published, but here goes...


      Real Men Use Charcoal - the Only Way to Barbecue!


      Nothing says summer more than sunny afternoons filled with the delicious aroma of steaks grilling on the barbecue.

      Catching up with family and friends and planning fun times for the long, warm days ahead with a relaxing beer in one hand and barbecue tongs in the other, is the proud domain of many a man on a summer weekend.

      That is, until he hears the words: "Did you check the gas?"

      Too many perfect barbecues have been ruined by an empty gas bottle.

      Half-cooked steaks and hungry guests staring at wilting salads and shooing flies, make for a barbecue no one wants to remember.

      Especially the chef.

      Any man worth his salt knows that the only way to keep the flames burning and the steaks sizzling is with charcoal. It's reliable, it's portable - it's the only way to barbecue.

      There's nothing like the taste of a char-grilled steak, cooked to juicy perfection with the smoked flavour encapsulating every bite.

      Gas barbecues just can't compare with the taste sensation of a charcoal cooked feast, with the juices of previous barbecues captured and released time and again, creating hotter, tastier flames.

      Beer marinading just isn't the same on a gas barbecue.

      Those carefully added splashes of beer either sit in a puddle on the hotplate, or extinguish the flames of a gas barbecue. Only with charcoal do you get the satisfying hiss of steamed beer tenderising your perfect steaks.
      Not to mention the admiring looks from your guests as the impressive plumes disappear, revealing you as the man in control.

      Real men know barbecues.

      Real men use charcoal.

      Make sure you're the man at your barbecue. Visit xxxxx now.


      Enjoy people!

      Cheers,
      Sissy
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        If you AREN'T booking your schedule because you're charging a higher rate, then I would argue that you're not worth that price....no matter what you think your quality is.
        Hello, common sense, Where the hedoublel have you been?

        Between the people posting about what they are "willing to pay" and writers claiming some writing has more status than others, I'm just shaking my head.

        If you have a writer giving you copy you can use and you are both happy with the price - what others charge isn't your concern.

        Writers who are happy with their fees shouldn't worry about what other writers charge, either. If you aren't happy with your fees, up your game.

        I've personally found the mid-level clients to be the least hassle of any and I love them. They pay $18-50 for an article, some also pay extra for research time. They're happy, I'm happy - where's the problem? I do landing pages (for manufacturers) and ebooks and reports - but so far I don't like writing sales copy. I can do it - but I don't like it so I don't do it.

        I've found both extremes - low end clients and very high end clients - to be more trouble to deal with than they are worth. But that's the point - work where you enjoy working, charge what you think you are worth (if you can get it) and don't worry about what the next guy does.

        (No, I'm not posting a writing example - you can't afford it)

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I've personally found the mid-level clients to be the least hassle of any and I love them. They pay $18-50 for an article, some also pay extra for research time. They're happy, I'm happy - where's the problem? I do landing pages (for manufacturers) and ebooks and reports - but so far I don't like writing sales copy. I can do it - but I don't like it so I don't do it.
          This bears emphasizing. My rates for article type work here on the forum are less than half my rate for other work, because doing them is almost no hassle and not a lot of time commitment. Those two factors, right now, make the drop in price worthwhile for me right now.

          The IM crowd skews things. It's not too hard for even a writer who is merely okay to get paid the equivalent of ten cents a word or more. Just not here, usually.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
    Here's my shot at it. Please note, I have 5 children running around me right now. Figured if I didn't try right now, I wouldn't remember to try it.


    ----------

    The always blinking light was no longer blinking.

    That annoying little green light, was no where to be seen.

    And in that single moment my stomach sank.

    In those few seconds that followed I held my breath.

    "It's alright", I told myself.

    "It will all be okay", I reassured myself.

    And for those ensuing moments, I hoped pressing the on button would work. Surely, it was just turned off. Of course, it had just shut itself down when the power went out last night.

    And for the first time since I began working on that small little machine, I hoped for the green light.

    I hoped for the blink.

    I prayed for the blink.

    Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

    I knew what it needed. A computer doctor could surely help.

    Dialing the number I felt like I was calling 911 for someone I love. After all, this little machine was what my life depended on. This little machine was the difference between food on the table, a roof over my head and all those great little additions to my life I had so come to enjoy.

    Ring.

    Ring.

    Ring.

    Oh come on answer, please, please answer.

    "Hello" said the voice on the other end of the line.

    "I need help," I gasped. Boy did I ever sound like it was life or death.

    "It won't turn on. We had a power outage last night and now it won't turn on!"

    "Not to worry, we can help you out" said the voice. He sounded so sure, but in my gut, I wasn't.

    "Just bring in your backup discs just in case and we will get you all sorted."

    "Backups?!" I exclaimed.

    "Yes, you know the backups of the info on your drives?"

    Of course I knew what he was talking about. Come on, I'm an internet marketer. We always hear about the unfortunate ones who didn't back up and lost it all. But I never thought it would happen to me. I always thought I could do it tomorrow.

    "Are you still there?" asked the voice.

    "Yes, yes, sorry I am still here. What if I don't have a backup?"

    "Well then we hope that there is no issues with your drives and data."

    "Hope?" I didn't have hope, all I had was this lump in my throat. All I had was the thought in my head. 5 out of 6 businesses go under within 2 years after data loss.

    "Yes, hope" replied the voice.

    All the way to the store I tried to have hope. But all the way to the store I thought about all the things I could not replace.

    Software, I could replace.

    Hardware, I could replace.

    Wedding pictures, all gone.

    Financial info, gone.

    So much, gone.

    What about my passwords? Crap, I realized. I used Roboform to protect my data. I gagged on my own laughter, protect my data.

    "That's right, you protect it from theft, why didn't you protect it from other issues?" I asked myself. If they didn't recover my data, all my passwords were gone! All my work was gone. I would for sure be in that stupid statistic now.

    Fast forward two years...

    Working for someone else isn't so bad.

    I should start my own business. Again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      That was impressive, Sylvia. Yours truly made me feel that way again because that's exactly what I went through six months ago. I was lucky and didn't lose any data but it sure brought home the importance of backup to me. All I could think of was that was where all the photos of my grandson were - the ones of him being born and the first time he was held by his mama and the first time he was held by his proud nana. One of the worst times in my life was waiting for word from the repair people.

      Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
    Tina,
    I too learned it the hard way. We had a hard drive get wiped in a move. With it went pretty much EVERY baby picture I had of William. I still have the few that were on disc etc, but I lost all the ones of him being born, and weighed in and that sort of thing. Now I have all the kids photos regularly burnt onto disc, but it was heart breaking. I can live without the data on my computers, it's the memories that mean the most.

    Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
    I really do love how, because of the very transient nature of IM and it's continue influx of newbies, we can have this argument infinitum with no change, year after a year.

    Here we have two sides of the continuum- one set on their viewpoint that all writing is writing, and that a good writer can be found anywhere for any price and that to pay anything upwards of bargain prices is a crime

    And on the other side people who either choose to pay, or are articulating that they are craftspeople who can create something the average person doesn't. That skill then deserves more compensation.

    And like any continuum there are all the people caught in between.

    I want to make a brief analogy. Here in NZ we have a reasonably good healthcare system. Our doctors are well trained, and I can get heavily subsidised care for my kids. This means I know if my kids are sick it's not going to cost me much. I get a good return, in other words for a pretty high level of service.

    However, even though I can get that pretty good level of service for next to nothing, I opt to go to a doctor that is not subsidised. He has the same core experience and skills as those other doctors but there are some key differences

    1. The practice believes that medicine is a craft. I know if I make a booking I'll be treated with respect, I'll have a good portion of time allocated to me and I'll not feel they are churning through them.
    2. If there is something more unusual or difficult, they'll spend more time researching it for no extra cost. My daughter was just diagnosed with atypical pnuemonia a few days ago. She reacted to the medication. My doctor and the practice contacted leading specialists, and tracked them down checking she was on the very best course- the upshot being this is the first night in weeks she's slept through without a coughing spell that woke the family...
    3. I know they'll listen to my ideas, and take them, BUT that they are also able to contribute their own expertise, adding ideas and thoughts that I may not have thought of. It is a relationship of mutual respect. I don't feel talked down to, I feel talked with, and this makes me feel confident they have my best interests in hand.

    I pay for the quality because while I know I can get good results from a doctor who is trained anywhere, I choose to select and pay for more from someone who chooses to treat his craft a little differently.

    We all have choices in what we prefer to invest our money in.
    Me- I've always believed that I should pay the most I can possibly afford to the people who do the jobs around me. That attitude has meant sometimes I have sought out good people at bargain prices. But I also know that if I want the best, I'll pay for the best. I want someone who'll deliver the work I wanted them too, without me having to fight for it's delivery or to spoon feed them into it.

    Last year I learnt one very important lesson- if I REALLY believe in my future then I need to invest in it myself first. If I do invest in it, and believe what I am doing is right, then things flow better. I have a saying- hold all your possessions loosely- that the more you give out of an open hand, and pay for what you should, the more it flows back to you. if your fist is closed, then you can hold onto what you have, but you will not be able to receive anymore. This universal truth is not just about LOA- or giving and receiving but also about paying people what is their due.

    Try to see the argument in this thread from more than your perspective. Some people here have established that they can, and because of that they can discuss this intelligently. Others just read it through the haze of their own limited understanding and will just never get it.

    Artists, including writers, were the storytellers and recorders of history. Yes, now most of us CAN write. That does not make us all writers. Then, out of those who profess to be writers, there are those who serve the bulk of humanity's needs with their factory shop writing, not unlike a doctor in a busy free/subsidised clinic.

    There will always people people however who want to create a finer product, that people WILL pay for because it's consistent, it's trustworthy and it's part of a partnership between two professionals creating something new - you'll feel the person is in synergy with you- producing something you could not, but at the same point something that completely reflects who you are, and what you stand for.

    My daughter "could've" been lucky and got a doctor as good as mine for free. They are in those places. SOMETIMES. But it's hard to find them, and often it's a one off. You can't count on it for consistency every time. So I choose to go to a practice where all the doctors are. Because for me it's worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author nevillealston
    Well personally,I guess I wouldn't pay that much for an article, unless of course it's from someone with vast and great experience in the niche that I 'm wanting to write about....

    I mean, you pay for a person's specialties, right? And of course for their consideration to actually craft out a handy article that is both informative and also entertaining to read.

    Then, sure yes, I would greatly pay that amount for any highly specialized article...But as an article writer myself, I don't have any problems getting payed 3 cents per word either!
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    • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
      Some people have one specialty.

      Writing!

      Of course, within the general occupational category of writing, many do specialize.

      Often after a period of doing "general" writing one may discover certain subject matter which they're naturally drawn to.

      Interestingly-or not-the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics-the governmental agency responsible for categorizing occupations in the good ole U.S. of A.-lists all writers, excluding technical writers and PR types, in the same category.

      27-3043 Writers and Authors

      Originate and prepare written material, such as scripts, stories, advertisements, and other material. Exclude "Public Relations Specialists" (27-3031) and "Technical Writers" (27-3042).
      So according to the ultimate authority, our government, all writers are the same.

      Using this couldn't you therefore conclude as all writers and authors do the same thing they're all worth the same amount-whatever that may be-for practicing their craft?

      Originally Posted by nevillealston View Post

      Well personally,I guess I wouldn't pay that much for an article, unless of course it's from someone with vast and great experience in the niche that I 'm wanting to write about....

      I mean, you pay for a person's specialties, right? And of course for their consideration to actually craft out a handy article that is both informative and also entertaining to read.

      Then, sure yes, I would greatly pay that amount for any highly specialized article...But as an article writer myself, I don't have any problems getting payed 3 cents per word either!
      Elmer "tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek" Hurlstone
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticlePrince
    Most IMers won't pay that, but many freelance writers make much more. When I write articles for appliance companies, I have made anywhere from $200-$600. You have to figure out how a client could use your article so that $50 would make sense for them, and then target that client.
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  • Profile picture of the author Micheallatour
    I've paid $15.00 per article when I had my review site up.
    All I know is if I were to pay someone just $5.00 for that
    article I wouldn't have gotten what I wanted....quality.

    just my .02
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Lincoln,
      You think that writers that might be charging $50/article would be willing to do that?
      Why bother? Some of us do that every single time we write something.

      When I write anything for my newsletter, I'm doing what you decribe, in effect. And it's always worth much more than $50.

      "Yes," you might say, "but that's a completely different thing." To which I would reply, "That's what we've been trying to tell you all along."


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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Tess,

        You're closer than some here, but you're still missing the point. You're focused on search engine and other traffic uses for content.

        Most of what I write, outside of forum posts, never sees the inside of a search engine database. The majority is reserved for my subscribers. Some gets turned into commercial products. Some is used for private training. Only a small percentage gets posted publicly. And all of it is far more valuable, in the long run, than content used the way you describe.


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  • Profile picture of the author tess47
    So many of you are saying you would never spend $20 on an article JUST to submit it to articles directories. What you are missing here is that YOU are killing valuable content by using it only to submit to directories!

    A well written article would be WELL worth $20 if you repurpose it, instead of trashing it after you have submitted to the article directories.

    I believe that if you use an article to submit to the directories, then change it slightly and use it as a press release, THEN rewrite it enough to submit to more article directories as an original (which takes no time) - you have content worth well OVER $20!

    One article can be used for dozens of purposes - $5 is a ridiculous price to pay for good content. I can guarantee you I am not going to spend my valuable time doing research and crafting a quality article for 5 bucks!!

    Just my two cents
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  • Profile picture of the author lisag
    Nearly everyone has heard the phrase "sell the sizzle, not the steak." What that means is it's OK to mention the features of a product, but you need to seduce your reader with the benefits.

    Everyone wants to work less, look better, sound smarter, have more time, or make more money. Your product or service is all about the benefits it delivers.

    Here's an example:

    I went into a pool supply store recently to buy a container of chlorine tablets. I've been buying the same size and brand for years. I expected to do the same on this visit.

    As I approached the stacks of 5 gallon buckets in the corner of the store, I noticed something new. There was my old brand, looking the same as it always did. But right next to it was the same brand, same size, but with a blue label instead of green. It was priced $7 higher than my usual selection.

    Wondering what the difference could possibly be, I started reading the label.

    The number of tablets were the same. The size of the tablets were the same. The chemical properties of each one were exactly the same.

    In fact, the only difference I could see, other than the color of the label and the price, was that the tablets in the new container were individually wrapped in cellophane baggies.

    I asked the salesclerk what was up.

    "Both chlorine tablets are exactly the same," he said. "You're just paying $7 extra to have them wrapped up. That's the only difference."

    "Hmm", I thought. "That's a lot of money to pay for cellophane." I grabbed my usual selection and headed to the cash register.

    As I was standing in line to pay, the store manager walked by and stopped to say "Hi". I'm a regular customer during swimming pool season. I mentioned to him that I didn't think little cellophane baggies were worth $7, and here's what HE said.

    "Actually, the extra protection is a very good thing. First of all, the wrappers help to maintain the tablet's potency. Chlorine begins to break down when it comes in contact with air. If you don't use a container quickly enough, the bottom tablets can be reduced by half their strength by the time you get to them."

    "Also," he added, "when you open the container, the wrappers keep you from getting hit in the face with that awful chlorine gas that pours out. Not only does it make your eyes water and smell awful, but inhaling the fumes can be unhealthy."

    I knew what he meant there. I always popped off the top and stepped back a few feet while I waited for the fumes to dissipate.

    "The wrappers also help prevent an accident. Chlorine can overheat and cause a fire if even a little bit of moisture finds its way into the container."

    I never knew that, but he pointed it out to me right on the warning label.

    And then, to seal the deal, he said: "And finally, people like the fact that they can remove just the number of tablets that they need rather than carrying the whole bucket to the pool each time."

    He was right there as well. I always carried the entire bucket to my chlorinator because it made my hands stink all day if I grabbed 5 tablets and carried them from my garage to the pool. Plus I never liked the idea of having pure chlorine coming in contact with my skin.

    I went back to the display and selected the "new and improved" version. All of those benefits were definitely worth the $7 extra to me.

    There's a lesson in all of this.

    The original salesclerk actually talked me out of buying. He had no idea what the benefits of the wrappers were, he only knew the features. I didn't see any reason why I should pay $7 and have to work harder to unwrap each tablet as well, so it was "no sale" on the featured product.

    Maybe you're doing the same thing. Take a look at your advertising and sales material to make sure that your copywriter is not selling just the steak and missing the sizzle.
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  • Profile picture of the author weightloss619
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    • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
      Originally Posted by weightloss619 View Post

      No one would ever pay $20 for an article I usually pay around 3 dollars and it is worth it.
      Gosh. There sure seems to be an awful lot of nobodies paying me and a whole lot of people I know that and more per article then...
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      weightloss169 - that was an ignorant thing to say. Plenty of people pay more than that so just because you won't pay more means absolutely nothing.

      Tina
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      No one would ever pay $20 for an article I usually pay around 3 dollars and it is worth it.
      Well, I guess that puts an end to the issue, then. An absolute pronouncement from an anonymous account.

      We can all go home now, folks. Discussion over.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        No one would ever pay $20 for an article.
        I'm crushed. I guess I'll have to shut down as soon as I finish this last article I'm working on (for $30). Don't know what I'm going to tell the person who is expecting 15 articles from me next week (at $37.50 each).

        Maybe I'll just send him here.

        :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author lisag
      Originally Posted by weightloss619 View Post

      No one would ever pay $20 for an article I usually pay around 3 dollars and it is worth it.
      Sigh. Please don't generalize. Stick to the facts and you'll get more respect here.

      Try saying "I wouldn't pay $20", or "Most people who I associate with wouldn't pay..."

      When you say "no one" you show that you have little experience in the real world. You can't speak for everyone, so please don't.

      I have nearly 700 hundred clients that say you are wrong and more than 2,000 multi-article projects under my belt that sold for way more than $20 each.

      The universe is much bigger than the IM market and, I'm ASSuming here, the weight loss niche you are in. Take your blinders off and look around.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanedmunds
    I don't know so much that it is that the writers can't write. Just thinking of $5 per article says one thing to me : SEO Garbage copy. That is what the purchaser wants and that is what the writer delivers. Chances are this is at a penny a word and bought in bulk as well.

    I think if you want decent writing that is written in any kind of 'voice' other than robotic search engine noise, you're going to have to pay $20+ per article.
    Most of the blogs that I consider to be worthwhile reads pay around $150 per article.

    I have done some of this $5 article writing and I wouldn't show any of it to my brother's dog as a portfolio example if he were hiring.
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  • Profile picture of the author chukwuma
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    • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
      Time spent researching and writing an article is time in my life that I'm never going to get back, so I want it to be a valuable experience for both me (to write it) and for the reader.

      Like many writers posting in this thread, I write quality articles over quantity and much prefer clients who appreciate it. Those who don't usually can't accept my price or want an eBook written in 500 words and the conversation ends there.

      Don't be afraid to charge what you believe your time is worth as a writer. Selling yourself short is not advisable in any aspect of life.

      Thankfully Google is putting the pressure on the publishers of poor quality content, so soon enough, they'll be paying much more than an average of $5 an article - fingers crossed!

      Cheers,
      Sissy
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  • Profile picture of the author csongi12xme
    20$ for an article?That's way too much.
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    • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
      Originally Posted by csongi12xme View Post

      20$ for an article?That's way too much.
      Does this mean I have to return the $100 I was paid for a 375 word email?

      Was it worth it? The marketer I wrote it for has generated close to $2,000 from it thus far. Substantially better results than the piece it replaced.

      Elmer
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    • Profile picture of the author lisag
      Originally Posted by csongi12xme View Post

      20$ for an article?That's way too much.
      $35,000 for a 2009 Lexus ES 350? That's too much. Why I can buy a brand new KIA for $14,000. They're both cars. What difference does it make?
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    • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
      Originally Posted by csongi12xme View Post

      20$ for an article?That's way too much.
      For what? Please read the entire thread to get the gist. Blanket statements are seldom the answer to any questions. As much as I like the warrior forum, its not the definitive answer on article writing or on pricing for articles. I've been paid over 800$ for articles - paid by editors who wanted great content. I provided it - without proof that it would help - and they paid me. And for some dumb reason they even hired me again to write.

      Magazines - on or offline - need content. There seems to be common misconception here on the forum that all article writers need to charge ridiculously low prices to get business.

      If you want to see what the rest of the writing world looks like - go check out writer's forums. Read a few issues of The Writer or Writer's Digest. Drag over a copy of Writer's Market at your local library and go through it to see what people will pay for content.

      And shockingly sometimes its more than $20 an article. There's a big, bright, ok paying (I'd never let an aquisition editor here he paid too much for my work) writing world outside of the WF - go check it out.

      best,
      --Jack
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    I'll be straight with you guys...

    I'm a copywriter... not a writer.

    I've written some pretty successful letters... but I don't consider myself a wordsmith.

    Certainly not at the level of someone like Paul, who BTW is the best writer I've ever seen.

    But let me add my two cents.

    Its not just about WHAT you write... it's what results it gets... and what purpose it has.

    As a copywriter, most of what I do is write sales letters. They have one purpose, and one purpose only - make the sale.

    In addition... that purpose can be easily tracked, as a simple conversion rate.

    Now, just like any other writing aspect... there's a ton of guys who think they can make it in the copywriting game.

    There are several things that set me apart from "the pack"... but the biggest one is results.

    The fact that my most recent letter converted at a whopping 18% is what sends more clients my way... because they know I can get results.

    (As an aside, Paul Myers is one of the men I owe a large portion of my success to... so thanks Paul).

    But most people hiring article writers... and even the people writing the articles... don't push results.

    IMHO... articles aren't just SEO bait.

    A good article not only gets traffic... it establishes you as an authority... and builds your credibility.

    On top of that it warms up your prospect... pre-sells them... and makes them want your product.

    One that gets a sky-high CTR AND converts like mad.

    One that has information no one else has (or at least, not in the same way)... to brand me as completely unique.

    I'll tell you write now.. if you can write an article like that for me... I'll be more than happy to give you $100.

    If you can do the keyword research... make sure it's a "buyer's" keyword... and match the article perfectly to the market that searches for that keyword... I'll give you $500.

    I'm not joking.

    A good article is an investment in your business... just like sales copy... affiliate managers... or anything else.

    And if you want to pay $5/article for SEO bait crap... that's your business.

    It might even work for you.

    But I think you're leaving a LOT of money on the table.

    Kind regards,

    -Dan

    P.S. That post was more or less an article... at least in length. I'm not nearly as good a writer as Paul but I like to think that I can sell the idea
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  • Profile picture of the author lexilexi
    Yes, I too think that anyone can write... badly...

    Few people can write really well and I don't generally buy articles because most people's content is recycled garbage and is going to be worthless in a short time - whereas high quality content stands the test of time. I tend to go for "evergreen" content because news quickly becomes old news, whereas wisdom is perennial. And why saturate the internet still further with second rate content? The gravy train will ultimately pull the whole thing under and so I say don't go there. I don't think hosting "filler" content on your sites is any sort of an investment for the future.

    I would *definitely* pay over $20 per article if it was up to my standards, properly researched, original and contained references. I have single pages that are making me over $50 per month in ad clicks, but they are high quality resources designed not only to get pageviews but to develop lasting reputation. To pay for such a page is a no-brainer - otherwise I will write my own content.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Aw, heck - couldn't resist popping a piece in here. So here's one for you:


      Okay, I admit it...I am totally addicted to coffee. Not just the caffeine, either. Several months ago, I switched to half caffeine/ half decaf mix in the morning and then decaf the rest of the day. So it's not the caffeine...I just really like my coffee.

      Seriously, don't even talk to me until I've had my first cup of java in the morning...trust me!

      I also have a low tolerance for waiting. When my old coffee maker began taking 25 minutes to brew a pot, I knew I needed a new one.

      You really think I'm going to wait 25 minutes in this non-coherent limbo?

      I lived with this pot taking forever for over three weeks. My partner was so sweet and decided to bring me home a lovely new Black & Decker VersaBrew Plus.

      Honestly, I don't think all that whining, pouting, and complaining I did had anything to do with this decision...LOL!

      There I was...like a little kid at Christmas time! I tore into the box and put my new appliance on the counter. I had the old one wrapped up to go into storage in record time.

      Those of us who are true coffee lovers know that you absolutely must keep a working pot in backup. We all know that manufacturers program coffeepots to die only just before you make that first morning pot.

      I really liked the sleek design of the VersaBrew Plus. It's very attractive sitting on the counter and the glossy white matches my toaster and microwave. I also really like the way the carafe is made. It has a wide, easy-to-grip handle that is sturdier than most. It's much more comfortable in my hands than any other I've used.

      I've had arthritis since I was a kid so can be in a lot of pain, especially early in the morning. I've had to use two hands to pour coffee on many occasions. I like the fact that this one is so much more comfortable.

      I set the clock and programmed the coffee for my usual rising time for work. This is the feature I like the most. This has the easiest programming I've ever seen in an appliance like this. A few simple clicks and I was ready to roll.

      This feature may not be as important to those of you who don't normally need detailed instructions. Unfortunately, I'm one of those that still can't program my VCR after owning it for three years.

      Then came the bad part...actually making a pot of coffee! It took me a couple minutes to get the filter basket out. That wasn't so bad. Putting it back, however, was much trickier! What a pain in the behind!

      At this point, there began some minor cussing from the kitchen...ok, from me...LOL! The longer it took to get that basket back, the louder I seemed to get!

      Having finally re-attached the filter basket, I proceeded to fill the reservoir the requisite 12 cups of water. I had to make two trips to the kitchen sink for this one. I wore one third of the first pot of water. Seems the carafe must be poured very slowly and carefully in order to not spill.

      There was definitely cussing coming from the kitchen now! It was getting louder and louder. Trying to convince my partner that a sailor had stopped in was unsuccessful.

      After all that trouble, I was going to enjoy that first cup of coffee! Mmmmm...I could almost taste it already. I began watching the clock. Five minutes went by...not even half brewed? Ten minutes went by...about two-thirds done. I was not a happy camper by this time! Grand total brewing time was thirteen minutes!! I was not at all impressed with this lack of speed.

      Remember, I have serious need for quick gratification in some areas. Waiting thirteen long minutes for coffee is not a happening thing!

      I have decided to purchase another coffee pot as soon as income tax refund time. After seeing the hurt expression in my partner's eyes, however, I have also decided to stop cussing and complaining...at least out loud.

      After all, I do want to get more surprises, don't I?
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    • Profile picture of the author lisag
      Originally Posted by greff View Post

      You get what you pay for. Period.
      Not bragging here, but I wanted to provide a real-life illustration of what Greff and others wrote.

      I delivered a 500 word article today for $100. The clients is selling a rare collectible at auction and hopes to get $10,000 or more for it.

      He didn't blink an eye at my quote.

      Here's what he wrote after I delivered the article (I deleted the item for his privacy):

      "Lisa, I can see that you clearly did your homework on this xxx and have a solid understanding of xxx collectibles. I like your lively style. I read the works of other article writers and they are very stale, text-book like. I can see why people come to you. I am very pleased with your initial work."

      This should about wrap up the argument that there is no room for high-priced articles. There's plenty of people who will pay more than $20 if the investment is worth it for them. Now, I agree that this is rarely the case in the IM market, but IM is not the beginning and end of the available universe of clients. It is merely a market segment.
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  • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
    What strikes me as odd about this whole debate is that we expect *one person* to be able to deliver everything. Most other writing processes involve at least the writer and an editor, but for "article writing" that seems to go out the window, and people expect one person to be good at all aspects (research, writing and editing).

    Now, to be fair, I expect basic grammar and spelling skills from a writer, but beyond the basics, there are issues of voicing, consistency, etc, that come in to play which a good editor can help with. If you're looking at a 200 word "article" for SEO purposes, that probably doesn't matter. If you're looking for regular blog content, maybe it starts to matter more.

    I routinely pay $50-$100+ for article content, and I pair the writer with one of a team of editors (who also get paid a fee for editing the article). I expect the authors to be subject matter experts (or at least enthusiasts) and the editors have an interest in the same subjects as well.

    My domain is more focused than domains of others, perhaps, but the concept of separation is probably still valid.

    Perhaps having an "edit this article for $3" service to be paired with the "write this article for $5" services would make things better all around? Writers would research and write, and someone else would do a final pass cleaning for style and spelling and so on.
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    • Profile picture of the author BelindaMooney
      I am a freelance writer both for the web and for print publications. Now I sell a lot of reprints in the regional parenting publication area. Basically I write one article and sell it over and over again. For those articles , which are usually between 300 - 500 words, I am willing to take smaller amounts. These small niche publications generally pay between $25 & $50 each. And they pub. in CA doesn't care if the parenting pub in VA buys the same one.
      I have been selling the same reprints for literally several years now.

      But when one of these publications contacts me and asks me to write a specific article for them the pay is much higher - $75.00 - $125.00 usually. Again these are small ad driven publications. I retain my rights and sell that article as a reprint as well.

      Why do they approach me? Because I am an expert in my field (parenting, kids, family - I have 7 kids of my own lol). I have written for national magazines and they do pay much more but I can reap the same rewards - almost - writing for regionals and it suits my schedule better. Also I can write the article and submit to many at one time which is the opposite for national queries.

      I have not done much in the way of copywriting. I did do some for a client years ago and for an online college place not long ago and was paid hourly. I am playing around with producing parenting PLR and marketing it.

      So while you can get articles cheap - it is as others have said. You usually get what you pay for. But, there was a time, when I was starting out, I would have taken $5 for a 500 word article to pay the bills.

      As another person said - if writer and client are happy what does anyone else care? I try to be affordable, especially in the niche I write in, but again it also depends on the client. Proctor and Gamble would be willing to pay WAY more for an article, and afford it, then my local grocer.

      Just my .02

      Belinda
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  • Profile picture of the author Marketstriker
    Good question James.
    I can understand when beginners propose low price for an article. But it's strange to see proposals from online marketers to find the writer for 5$ per article and less. I understand that they have desire to reduce cost. But how do they expect to get clients with these material?
    As for me I'm ready to pay 20$ per article, because I know that it gives more visitors through links than the same one for 5$.
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  • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
    I believe there are varying levels of uses for each price point on articles. While a $5 article may seem like crap to some, it can also be applied a different way. Say you prefer creating your own articles, but are stuck on ideas... i.e. you have writers block. Spend $20 and have 4 different article writers create an article for the same topic and you could then have a plethora of ideas on where to take the final, end result article.

    On the other hand you always get what you pay for. I for one would never use a non-native english speaking person to write an article for me. I would only use them to dig up research on a topic. The language barrier can pose too many problems, and ultimately end up with you re-writing the article to correct grammar and spelling mistakes.

    In the end it doesn't matter what price you pay for an article, but rather that you are getting a positive return on that investment. Do nothing with an article and it will not matter if you pay $10 or $10,000 for an article as both versions would be worth the same in terms of revenue. Promote a $10 article in the proper manner and it could be worth as much or more than the $10,000 article. It has more to do with what you do with the content you receive.

    Just my thoughts...

    Dennis
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