Are jobs filthy habits?

58 replies
Here is a post that I found to be a real interesting read.

Jobs Are Filthy Habits That You Should Kick As Soon As Possible! | The Conversion Doctor Blog

What do you think?
#filthy #habits #jobs
  • Profile picture of the author Rachel Goodchild
    I think the problem with jobs is when they cause you to fear your ability to survive without one- they institutionalise you away from starting out on your own
    I'm a crap employee. I'm a bloody good contractor however- I love targets, and I like beating the clock and then relaxing.
    Some people like the frequency of pay- there is something to be said for that certainly!
    I think we need to learn to follow our own life journey- and stop looking at how other's choose to live and judging them on it. Sometimes I envy those happy to live a conventional life of a job, a mortgage and a secure every day is the same plan. I'm just not cut out for it!
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    • Profile picture of the author burtonridr2
      Originally Posted by Rachel Goodchild View Post

      I think the problem with jobs is when they cause you to fear your ability to survive without one- they institutionalise you away from starting out on your own
      I'm a crap employee. I'm a bloody good contractor however- I love targets, and I like beating the clock and then relaxing.
      Some people like the frequency of pay- there is something to be said for that certainly!
      I think we need to learn to follow our own life journey- and stop looking at how other's choose to live and judging them on it. Sometimes I envy those happy to live a conventional life of a job, a mortgage and a secure every day is the same plan. I'm just not cut out for it!
      Well put
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    I personally love having a part-time job. Its why I got myself one at Office Depot. At least when I get around to making big bucks online, I'll have that discount at the Depot. It is all in good fun for me, and getting my lazy ass out of the house and out of my computer chair.

    -Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I think it's easy to get into the mindset of taking shots
    at people who work hard for honest wages but don't think
    they way we think.

    The real truth is that a very large % of the population is
    not suited to owning or operating a business. They're happy
    doing what they do... and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I'm very happy that the good people who provide goods and
    services to me on a daily basis have those jobs.

    Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I think it's easy to get into the mindset of taking shots
      at people who work hard for honest wages but don't think
      they way we think.

      The real truth is that a very large % of the population is
      not suited to owning or operating a business. They're happy
      doing what they do... and there's nothing wrong with that.

      I'm very happy that the good people who provide goods and
      services to me on a daily basis have those jobs.

      Tsnyder
      That's exactly the way I feel about this issue.

      I'm here to help people who've made a choice to start a business. But I'm not going to take pot shots, look down my nose, or tell anyone who has a job that they have a "filthy habit."

      That sort of mindset is toxic.

      I like being able to go to a restaurant and have a nice meal. I like knowing that if I get hurt, there are doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers and other emergency workers ready to help. I like that my nieces and nephews are getting good educations from their teachers/professors.

      I could go on and on.

      Just think about what you purchased this week. I bet you purchased it from an employee (rather than a business owner).

      And look at your own business. Are you looking to expand? If so, you might be hiring full or part time employees. People aren't stupid. They can sure sense if you think they're idiots for their choices. That makes for a tense employee-owner relationship.

      cheers,
      Becky
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    • Profile picture of the author tracyaustin
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I think it's easy to get into the mindset of taking shots at people who work hard for honest wages but don't think
      they way we think.

      The real truth is that a very large % of the population is
      not suited to owning or operating a business. They're happy
      doing what they do... and there's nothing wrong with that.

      I'm very happy that the good people who provide goods and
      services to me on a daily basis have those jobs.

      Tsnyder
      I appreciate those people, too, but I wouldn't go so far as to presume I know they are happy doing what they do.

      In the US, the public school system is designed to churn out workers and consumers to keep the economy going. (before you disagree, read The Underground History of American Education by award winning teacher John Taylor Gatto.)

      So children here are taught that adult life is about getting good grades, going on to graduate and get a job, or go on to college for a higher paying job. Most buy it hook line and sinker. That's a big part of the 80/20 rule. About 20% are able to go through that and come out with their creativity intact (some lucky ones never have to go through it - home and un-schoolers).

      I personally love this article, and the title kicks a**! Grabs you and yanks you in, as does his writing. Most people who do anything outside of the ordinary stumble upon an article like this or a book, or something that blasts them out of their stupor and awakens their inherent desire to be free.

      For me it was a job in a book store in my early 20's where I found "Think and Grow Rich" which led me to so many great books, ideas and a realization that life is truly what you make it.

      Employees truly are slaves. Just think about it for a few minutes....

      But it can take time to re-program the mind to believe that you can break out of the mold that society has taken over a decade (in most instances) or longer if you've been working for awhile, to force you into....

      Tracy
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by tracyaustin View Post

        I appreciate those people, too, but I wouldn't go so far as to presume I know they are happy doing what they do.
        Nor would I go so far as to presume they aren't...

        Employees truly are slaves. Just think about it for a few minutes....
        Yeah, yeah... I've heard the self improvement mantra... repeated
        it many times... have read all the books... listened to all the tapes...
        spoken about it from the stage before audiences in the hundreds...
        a few times thousands...

        Once we get past the simplistic brainwashing aspect of self improvement
        we realize that doing an honest day's work for an honest day's pay bears
        absolutely no resemblance to slavery. In fact, it's an insult to the history
        and experience of those who suffered through the bonds of actual slavery,
        and do to this day.

        The last time I checked nobody in this country (USA) is required to work
        for any particular employer... heck... with our entitlement system many are
        not required to work at all.

        The employee is free to leave any time he/she wishes. They are free
        to work for any other employer who will have them... they are free to
        strike out on their own to create their own brand of security if they so
        choose.

        They are not slaves by any meaningful definition of the word. To believe
        otherwise is to be little more than a mindless drone repeating sophomoric
        platitudes promoted by the self improvement "industry."

        The notion that people are slaves because they owe a debt to someone,
        or to many, is just as ridiculous. If there is any indentured servitude in
        this country it is self imposed. Nobody forced them to acquire debt. Under
        our laws they may even elect to choose bankruptcy if they can no longer
        pay their debts. (a Biblical principle based on the notion of forgiving all debt
        every 7 years or at the Jubilee)

        So... no... being an employee is not a filthy habit nor does it constitute
        slavery in any way, shape or form.

        Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author Katelyn Silverman
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Powers
    Maybe it's interesting.But I still don't agree this viewpoint.In this society,every has its value and are responsible for himself,his family and even his country.If you can find your value,then it's honorable,no matter what job you are doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author mryan1
    I think that having a day job is okay. I personally have an Associates Degree in Fire Science (Firefighter) and I am currently working as an EMT. I want so badly to be a fireman and that is my dream. With the recession that we are in right now, town/city budgets aren't very conducive for hiring new employees so I am playing the waiting game. I like technology and I and things to do with online. I think that it is perfectly fine if you do this as a hobby.




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    • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
      Ask your plumber when he comes to fix your problem...

      KJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Bronson
    Wow Trader54, that was a monster, value packed post in the link posted. It's all in perception.... personally I use jobs for a few months out of the year when necessary(trading my time for money), then discard them when I'm done... in some ways you have to use the system to escape the system.

    But as Tsnyder rightfully pointed out, not everyone is cut out to run their own business, and are happy to be in a job with upward mobility potential, benefits, coworker buddies. I absolutely love when most of the year I work from home on my business, living alone and having no interaction face to face with coworkers/bosses. Other people would flip out and need to go with a laptop and work from a coffee shop just to be around people... different strokes......
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  • Profile picture of the author Lincoln Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan View Post

      I personally think that a person who works for himself and slaves all day writing articles/building links is no different than an employee. It's actually probably worse cause at least one is getting benefits.
      I outsource jobs I don't like to do. I think slaving away all day at a job that you hate just for benefits sucks. I do what I enjoy doing all day, I do it when I want and take off when I want. I make my schedule. I work a lot but that's because I want to. I love what I do.

      Not everyone is cut out to work for themselves. Many don't have a viable plan or self-discipline. They are better off going for security and doing it on the side. I'm not cut out to be someone's employee. Haven't for the last 10 years and I sure don't miss it.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    I think the post above is right - not everyone is cut out to have their own business and run things on their own, and a certain unique type of mindset is required. From my experience talking to hundreds of people, few people possess this certain mindset.

    @Lincoln Ryan - I can see your point, but a successful entrepreneur will look way, way beyond that. That's a limited 'employee' mindset, where you're just trading time for money. If you're entrepreneurial and looking to take things way beyond just 'replace my job' type income, you'll outsource all the tedious, monotonous and low-paying work to someone who can do it more reliably and consistently than you! The true entrepeneur will look at what task(s) generate him the most profits AND concentrate on that, and outsource the rest of the menial work!

    This is what I meant by mindset earlier. Very few people have this vision to see beyond just a small business that generates so-so income, and I also feel that NOT having a job completely changes your mindset towards your IM and entrepreneurial activities - you start seeing opportunity and potential where others just see competition and saturation, because this is your calling and passion now, not just some 'part-time' hobby!
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  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    This blog post has hit the nail on the head.

    If you read it, you notice he talks about the so-called "employee benefits". Most people would not have read that far.

    The myth of "employee benefits" has been perpetuated for far too long.

    How long does it take to get health and life insurance? Two or three trips to your insurer at most. And you KNOW what's going on. Which you should. This is your life, your life savings and your family we are talking about.

    For society to flourish and for us to advance, bureaucrats simply decided they had to turn the population into worker bees. And when they do that, they know a few will 'slip through the cracks' and not follow the same downtrodden path.

    These people, not easily being 'happy with what they have' and don't want to take orders all day, are the ones who usually end up becoming the full-time entrepreneurs.

    Fabian
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  • Profile picture of the author KristiDaniels
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Originally Posted by KristiDaniels View Post

      Not only is working equivalent to slavery, it isn't even a very good slave/owner relationship. Historically everything we know about slavery from Abraham's day, pre-civil war days in the U.S. and even active slavery today, slave owners always treat their slaves better than employers treat their employees/slaves.
      You can't compare a business arrangement where a person VOLUNTARILY agrees to perform a service in exchange for money to a social structure where people were literally considered nothing more than property.

      An employee can leave whenever they want to. A slave cannot.

      Would you rather be a slave working out in a field in the 18th Century Southern US, or working a "terrible" job in an air-conditioned Target store? I mean, they're both equivalent, right?

      Also people, for the most part, are in debt today because of the easy availabilty of credit, combined with living beyond their means (now THAT's a bad habit!) and poor financial planning skills, NOT because their employers treat them badly.

      If you, as an employee, feel your job isn't paying you enough to make ends meet, you have the ability to leave and go find a job that meets your requirements. Slaves did not (and don't) have that advantage.
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      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        They are a 'learned behavior.'

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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
    I do agree with you on the slavery comment.

    A lot of people are slaves to the banks because of the debt they build up.

    I see it all the time - guy gets nice new job, goes on spending spree, buys a flashy new car, a new house, expensive clothes, goes to top end restaurants, etc.

    All on credit with the assumption that the job will be there for him the next day.

    Well you know what just happened?

    He just turned himself into a slave.

    He MUST work at his job or else he won't be able to pay off his debt or get to keep his nice things.

    His ability to take any risks has been destroyed because now he must keep up with his payments.

    I'm pretty sure it's hard to think out of the box when you got creditors looking for payments, a family to feed, and an appearance to keep up.

    Just one way society tries to enslave its citizens.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

      I do agree with you on the slavery comment.

      A lot of people are slaves to the banks because of the debt they build up.

      I see it all the time - guy gets nice new job, goes on spending spree, buys a flashy new car, a new house, expensive clothes, goes to top end restaurants, etc.

      All on credit with the assumption that the job will be there for him the next day.

      Well you know what just happened?

      He just turned himself into a slave.

      He MUST work at his job or else he won't be able to pay off his debt or get to keep his nice things.

      His ability to take any risks has been destroyed because now he must keep up with his payments.

      I'm pretty sure it's hard to think out of the box when you got creditors looking for payments, a family to feed, and an appearance to keep up.

      Just one way society tries to enslave its citizens.
      Right, but who's falut is it that he's in debt?

      Nobody put a gun to his head and ordered him to live beyond his means. His debt is a result of him voluntarily (if foolishly) buying stuff he doesn't need.

      What makes slavery slavery is the fact that it's NOT voluntary. In addition, you can work your way out of debt. You can't "work your way out" of slavery.

      I'm not denying that people going into serious debt that they (currently) have no way to pay off is a widespread problem, but comparing it to slavery is in poor taste, IMO. Debt is debt and slavery is slavery. Two different things.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
        Originally Posted by Hesaidblissfully View Post


        What makes slavery slavery is the fact that it's NOT voluntary. In addition, you can work your way out of debt. You can't "work your way out" of slavery.

        I'm not denying that people going into serious debt that they (currently) have no way to pay off is a widespread problem, but comparing it to slavery is in poor taste, IMO. Debt is debt and slavery is slavery. Two different things.
        That's true.

        But...the guy is forced to work his job now because he has to pay off his debts.

        More of like an indentured servant, but that's pretty close to slavery IMO.

        Sure, it's his fault for buying all that crap in the first place. But it's part of the way society tells everyone they need expensive cars and clothes to be cool and worthy.

        That has put a lot of people in debt!
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        • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
          If anyone reads all that, good luck to them, It's all gibberish,, far too much on one bog post. Anyhow back to the title "Job's are Filthy Habits"..

          No they aren't they are a toolkit when used correctly i.e investing your cash into something more benificial.
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  • Profile picture of the author goodewealth
    I have to be truly honest.....I am new here and there may not be any value in what I say here but I truly loved the idea of being self sufficient and not having to depend on a job. I am doing a few offline ventures now that pay residual over the years and at present but I would not want to fill out another application for a job to save my life. It is just my first few two cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    I don't know about other kinds of jobs, i have worked in corporate cubicle prisons for a long time so I can talk about that.I actually wrote a recent blog post about how much it sucks to be an employee.

    First of all employee income is the most heavily taxed.
    Second, the health insurance isn't some free benefit, you pay for it.
    You can get a nice plan from ehealthinsurance.com just as good as whatever you get as an employee. You can choose to cover big expenses like an unexpected surgery or major accident/illness, and pay for smaller stuff like office visits and prescriptions. Or you can get an expensive plan with low deductible, higher premium. There are many choices.

    If you are in great health like me, you can pay as low as $30/mo for a decent plan with fairly low deductible.

    When you are an employee, you are even paying for the office space you occupy. You pay the highest taxes. You feed the executives and the investors. That is no life. Cubicle prison is a depressing place and sucks the life out of you and spits you out as a broken, empty shell.

    Creating multiple streams of income is the biggest favor you can do to yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Didn't bother reading it because of that bloody popup. Principle thing
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  • Profile picture of the author w3bmast3r
    To be honest I think there's both sides of a coin, I ahve run and owned my own business and when i sold it I was happy working for someone and not having to deal with the day to day of being self employed.
    Also I like being a part of a team and not always calling the shots. It's good to be a part of someone elses world sometmieas but in saying that a lot of what was siad is true.

    You can really build massive doubts in yourself if you learn to rely on a single form odf income all your life, I think the trick is to keep busy and don't be limited by yoru income.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Having my own successful business... I don't think a job is a filthy habit

    Ultimately... we're all trading time for money.

    And we all work for someone else.

    If you don't work for a boss... you have clients... customers... whatever.

    Look, I love the freedom of being my own boss... of working when I want... of sleeping in.. of working from home.

    But at the end of the day... I've still gotta work.

    Ultimately do what makes you happy. If that's a job... great. If that's working for yourself... great.

    It's just money, after all.

    -Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author AwesomePossum
    I personally think the ONLY thing that matters is whether or not you're actually happy with what you're doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

    Here is a post that I found to be a real interesting read.

    Jobs Are Filthy Habits That You Should Kick As Soon As Possible! | The Conversion Doctor Blog

    What do you think?
    This is really old news what he writes, however it is nevertheless true.
    The sad thing is that our society DEPENDS on that people do this "dirty work". Been there, done that.

    For example, every time i go to the store i feel VERY BAD for the cashiers people working there. I know they are working in a "horrible" job from 7am to 8 pm...and i dont even want to know what they are getting paid.

    But then i think: ACTUALLY, its not that bad. Because unemployment is certainly NOT the better alternative. Right now in your economy people should be glad IF they have a job and can pay the bills. Because many people don't have jobs at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    If people actually look in the dictionary on the meaning of 'slavery', there are a few definitions. 'Slavery' doesn't necessarily mean some poor guy in the 1800's being of servitude to someone else.

    If you are forced to do anything of considerable effort that you otherwise would not do if you weren't under the influence of employers, society, peers, school, whatever, that can be considered a FORM of slavery.

    There are degrees of slavery, and financial slavery is certainly one of them.

    Fabian
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    • Profile picture of the author dremora
      Getting locked up in a corporate cubicle prison, putting up with the nightmarish antics of an a-hole boss, and doing grunt work you hate cause you need the paycheck=slavery.

      At my last job, they gave us 2 short breaks and one hour lunch break. There were 10 pages of rules regarding when you can take those short breaks. They disciplined you if you stepped out for 5 minutes outside your allotted breaks. Even if all work was done you couldn't leave 2 minutes early.
      If you came 2 minutes late they wrote you up. You had to fill a bunch of paperwork if you had to take unscheduled leave to take care of your sick child.

      They really push this slave mentality, and it doesn't matter if you leave and look for another job, it's just the same cubicle prison and the same BS. Retarded office politics is everywhere. The sense of being locked up is the same. Corporate slave doesn't get to see any daylight. Corporate slave has nightmares about becoming homeless and getting hit with tens of thousands of dollars medical bills if he gets sick or injured in some accident. Corporate slave gets cancer, clinical depression, heart disease and a load of other health problems from all that stress.

      Modern cube dwellers are the slaves to the banking system and debt, in addition to the vicious cycle of corporate jobs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by dremora View Post

        Getting locked up in a corporate cubicle prison, putting up with the nightmarish antics of an a-hole boss, and doing grunt work you hate cause you need the paycheck=slavery.

        At my last job, they gave us 2 short breaks and one hour lunch break. There were 10 pages of rules regarding when you can take those short breaks. They disciplined you if you stepped out for 5 minutes outside your allotted breaks. Even if all work was done you couldn't leave 2 minutes early.
        If you came 2 minutes late they wrote you up. You had to fill a bunch of paperwork if you had to take unscheduled leave to take care of your sick child.

        They really push this slave mentality, and it doesn't matter if you leave and look for another job, it's just the same cubicle prison and the same BS. Retarded office politics is everywhere. The sense of being locked up is the same. Corporate slave doesn't get to see any daylight. Corporate slave has nightmares about becoming homeless and getting hit with tens of thousands of dollars medical bills if he gets sick or injured in some accident. Corporate slave gets cancer, clinical depression, heart disease and a load of other health problems from all that stress.

        Modern cube dwellers are the slaves to the banking system and debt, in addition to the vicious cycle of corporate jobs.
        You mentioned it was your last job. I assume that means you no longer work there.

        All those terrible things you mentioned... you volunteered for them. I'm guessing
        there were no armed guards at the doors preventing you from leaving any time you
        chose to.

        Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

      If people actually look in the dictionary on the meaning of 'slavery', there are a few definitions. 'Slavery' doesn't necessarily mean some poor guy in the 1800's being of servitude to someone else.

      If you are forced to do anything of considerable effort that you otherwise would not do if you weren't under the influence of employers, society, peers, school, whatever, that can be considered a FORM of slavery.

      There are degrees of slavery, and financial slavery is certainly one of them.

      Fabian
      Financial slavery is self imposed. I don't know about Singapore but
      nobody in the USA is forced to do anything of considerable effort by
      their employer, society, their peers, school, or whatever.

      It's an all volunteer 'army' my friend. They are free to leave at any time.

      Tsnyder
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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      • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Financial slavery is self imposed. I don't know about Singapore but
        nobody in the USA is forced to do anything of considerable effort by
        their employer, society, their peers, school, or whatever.

        It's an all volunteer 'army' my friend. They are free to leave at any time.

        Tsnyder
        The key is 'under the influence of'.

        If a gang forces some poor kid to smoke or else he gets beaten up, well what choice does he have? He either smokes under the influence of the gang or he will get beaten up.

        What caused him to end up in that situation in the first place? He may have thought being a gang was cool so he had to smoke. All this is the result of bad influence and conditioning.

        Most people think they have no other choice but to find a job if they have to feed their family and keep up with their payments. If they don't go to a job, they will get beaten up financially.

        Most people end up in that situation because they were under the influence of something bigger. They were taught throughout their lives that going to a job was the only solution to financial problems.

        It's a form of subconscious slavery and oftentimes, it is not entirely their fault.

        Fabian
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          The key is 'under the influence of'.

          If a gang forces some poor kid to smoke or else he gets beaten up, well what choice does he have? He either smokes under the influence of the gang or he will get beaten up.

          What caused him to end up in that situation in the first place? He may have thought being a gang was cool so he had to smoke. All this is the result of bad influence and conditioning.

          Most people think they have no other choice but to find a job if they have to feed their family and keep up with their payments. If they don't go to a job, they will get beaten up financially.

          Most people end up in that situation because they were under the influence of something bigger. They were taught throughout their lives that going to a job was the only solution to financial problems.

          It's a form of subconscious slavery and oftentimes, it is not entirely their fault.

          Fabian
          Fabian...

          If we're going to engage in a serious conversation you
          have to present serious arguments.

          Comparing people who work at a job to kids who get beat up by
          gang members is not a serious argument. It's a false analogy.

          The rest of your argument assumes these people do not have
          free will... that they are, some how, under some evil influence
          of their employer and are powerless to resist.

          That's nonsense, plain and simple. If people are that mindless
          they should just thank God they have a job at all because they
          will never succeed as independent business owners.

          And... again... these families they have to support and these
          payments they have to make... they "opted in" for all of that.

          Nobody forced them to get married... nobody forced them to
          have children... nobody forced them to acquire debt.

          It's not slavery... it's free choice.

          Tsnyder
          Signature
          If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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          • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
            Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

            It's not slavery... it's free choice.

            Tsnyder
            Nope, there is a difference between being mindless and being influenced. This is not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

            We are all influenced to do something every day, whether you believe it or not.

            If you have to work at a job or else you will be on the streets next month, you are a wage slave. Plain and simple. The choice between being homeless or having to work at a job is as good as not having a choice at all. They could be homeless. They could lose their car. Or they could stay at their job. For most people, it is as good as no choice - you have to stay at a job. You have become enslaved to wages.

            I would suggest to you that the 'free choice', as you call it, is not what it is. There is no such thing as 100% freedom in this world.

            Fabian
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

              Nope, there is a difference between being mindless and being influenced. This is not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

              We are all influenced to do something every day, whether you believe it or not.

              If you have to work at a job or else you will be on the streets next month, you are a wage slave. Plain and simple. The choice between being homeless or having to work at a job is as good as not having a choice at all. They could be homeless. They could lose their car. Or they could stay at their job. For most people, it is as good as no choice - you have to stay at a job. You have become enslaved to wages.

              I would suggest to you that the 'free choice', as you call it, is not what it is. There is no such thing as 100% freedom in this world.

              Fabian
              Fabian...

              With all due respect I see no point in continuing this discussion
              if your arguments are based on extremes.

              You say they could be this... they could be that... sure, they could.
              They could also have chosen a different path from the beginning.

              Nobody said there is such a thing as 100% freedom... another extreme position.

              But... people are free to choose when and where they want to work.
              Some choose factories... some choose offices... some choose their home.

              Most of us grew up under the same influences as every one else yet
              here we are CHOOSING a different path. One we hope will lead to financial
              independence. For some that will be true... for others it will not.

              But... we've strayed from the original question. To that I say... no... putting
              in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is not a filthy habit.

              Tsnyder
              Signature
              If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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          • Profile picture of the author Marketstriker
            Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

            Fabian...

            It's not slavery... it's free choice.

            Tsnyder
            That's right. I read the blog and I could agree with some arguments till I saw the words about slavery.
            Having a job is not a slavery, especially when men and women like what they do and build their career. People still have a choice and can organize their lifestyle to feel happy.
            Let's say some Harry loves biology and he works for pharmaceutical company. He likes his job, because it gives him not only money, but opportunity to realize his talent as biologist. He invents new medicine. He is quite successful because he finished to pay his credit, he made a few inventions and company pais him percent from sales. He is the head of the laboratory. He spends his free time with family traveling for times a year. And the company gives him additional free days, because understands that Harry earns more money for them than another employees. Twice a week he attends dances because he likes it. He is the head of the Gardener Assosiation of his city. Twice a week he lecturers in the local University.
            Do you really think this story may not happen in true life?
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            • Profile picture of the author Marketstriker
              Oops... Last question was to everybody, rather than to Tsnyder.
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      • Profile picture of the author tracyaustin
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Financial slavery is self imposed. I don't know about Singapore but
        nobody in the USA is forced to do anything of considerable effort by
        their employer, society, their peers, school, or whatever.

        It's an all volunteer 'army' my friend. They are free to leave at any time.

        Tsnyder
        We all also "volunteer" to pay income tax. Stop paying and see what happens. Stop working and see what happens even if you're single and only have yourself to care for.

        Here in the US it's true that a person is free do leave their job at any time. But your first paragraph is incorrect. You appear to be a public speaker/white collar worker or business man if you prefer. The majority of people in the US are not in that position. (If you worked you way up, you broke out of the mindset below, or were never subjected to it.) Some are forced (by need for income) to do very hard physical work. Not everyone has a desk job for goodness sake!

        Our society goes to great lengths to convince us from age 3 or 4 that school, job, family (or some variation of that) is the path to success and happiness. Corporations meanwhile spend billions to convince people that they must have certain "stuff" to be happy.

        It's tough to break free of all of this influence and most never do. So even if the workers situation is self-imposed, it wasn't done consciously. Of course not every person in every job dislikes it. But if you have to be somewhere and be told what to do by someone who controls your income, that's a form of slavery. Even if a person stands in front of a crowd and says it isn't.

        But it isn't the employer enslaving the person, it is their own beliefs in their "needs" and powerlessness to change their circumstances. This powerlessness was learned (and taught on purpose - read the book I mentioned in my other reply) and can be overcome.

        So, true, it isn't as cut and dried and the article title makes it out to be. That is the power of words. He crafted that title on purpose, and look what he has stirred up here and in comments at his own blog!

        We are all capable of changing our circumstances. I'm not arguing for weakness and limitations, far from it. But I do know what it's like to be working in a job because it was what I was taught. I had to make a living. That was pre-family for me. Now I have one (some pets, too!) and I'm a stay at home mom, and I still work! More now than in any job I ever had, lol! But the difference is that I made a conscious choice, whereas before I was ignorant to my options.

        And my point here is that that ignorance is instilled in us by design - public school being the worst offender that so many argue to increase.

        All that said, more and more people are waking up to the understanding that we create our reality with our thoughts. Our thoughts are things, they have mass and therefore gravitational pull as we focus on the same things day after day - wanted and unwanted. Scientifically proven too. Google "Noetics" and Lynne McTaggart to learn more.

        Now that's empowering knowledge you'll never get in any school (that I know of).

        Peace,
        Tracy
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        • Profile picture of the author theemperor
          Originally Posted by tracyaustin View Post

          We all also "volunteer" to pay income tax. Stop paying and see what happens. Stop working and see what happens even if you're single and only have yourself to care for.
          Tracy, you are absolutely 100% spot-on and correct, we do volunteer to pay income tax.

          Read this stuff and prepared to be shocked :

          FREEMAN on the Land in Lawful Rebellion

          I am not a freeman myself but I am very interested in their ideas, even if I decide not to follow:
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by tracyaustin View Post

          The majority of people in the US are not in that position. (If you worked you way up, you broke out of the mindset below, or were never subjected to it.) Some are forced (by need for income) to do very hard physical work. Not everyone has a desk job for goodness sake!
          Please tell that to the millions of people in this country who
          receive welfare checks, food stamps and free government housing
          and medical care.

          They don't seem to be forced (by need for income) to do anything,
          let alone very hard physical work.

          BTW, I don't have a desk job. I don't have any job that requires
          me to work for an employer... haven't had for many years. I CHOSE
          a different path. I was NEVER forced to do anything.

          Our society goes to great lengths to convince us from age 3 or 4 that school, job, family (or some variation of that) is the path to success and happiness.
          Has it occurred to you that for the vast majority of people the school, family,
          job path is precisely the right thing for them? What % of those people do you
          suppose would be temperamentally, socially or intellectually capable of operating
          a business successfully?

          Corporations meanwhile spend billions to convince people that they must have certain "stuff" to be happy.
          Yet when I go to various stores and markets I have yet to see armed
          guards forcing people to buy "stuff."

          It's tough to break free of all of this influence and most never do. So even if the workers situation is self-imposed, it wasn't done consciously. Of course not every person in every job dislikes it. But if you have to be somewhere and be told what to do by someone who controls your income, that's a form of slavery. Even if a person stands in front of a crowd and says it isn't.
          No, it isn't. Whether someone is standing in font of a crowd, or not.

          But it isn't the employer enslaving the person, it is their own beliefs in their "needs" and powerlessness to change their circumstances.
          That's absolutely correct. They chose to buy into what the were told.
          They choose to lives lives of mediocre comfort... settling for what they
          believe is the best they can do.

          In no way does that make them slaves or negate their ability to change
          their lives by changing their minds. We agree on that.

          And my point here is that that ignorance is instilled in us by design - public school being the worst offender that so many argue to increase.
          I went to those same public schools. I presume most of us did. Yet, as I
          replied to Fabian, here we are... having CHOSEN a different path. Nobody
          forced us to work as slaves in factories. We CHOSE to make our own way.

          All that said, more and more people are waking up to the understanding that we create our reality with our thoughts. Our thoughts are things, they have mass and therefore gravitational pull as we focus on the same things day after day - wanted and unwanted. Scientifically proven too. Google "Noetics" and Lynne McTaggart to learn more.

          Now that's empowering knowledge you'll never get in any school (that I know of).

          Peace,
          Tracy
          Yes... more people should be aware of this. I've been aware of it for more
          than 40 years.

          Tsnyder
          Signature
          If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

      If people actually look in the dictionary on the meaning of 'slavery', there are a few definitions. 'Slavery' doesn't necessarily mean some poor guy in the 1800's being of servitude to someone else.

      If you are forced to do anything of considerable effort that you otherwise would not do if you weren't under the influence of employers, society, peers, school, whatever, that can be considered a FORM of slavery.

      There are degrees of slavery, and financial slavery is certainly one of them.

      Fabian
      (From Wikipedia)

      Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      "Slavery is a form of forced labour in which people are considered to be the property of others. Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to receive compensation (such as wages)."

      Again, slavery and employment are NOT the same thing.

      You have to remember that there's a reason WHY slavery is illegal, and it's not just because it's making you do something that you otherwise would not do. You alluded to it yourself in your post above with your use of the word FORCE.

      Slavery is when you're FORCED, under threat of death, violence or imprisonment, to perform work, generally without any form of compensation. Contrast this with employment, where you're:

      A. Compensated for your work.

      B. Not going to get thrown in jail if you quit.

      C. Not going to get beaten if you refuse to do your job.

      They are not the same thing. The fact that those of us on this forum who previously worked jobs were able to leave and start our own businesses, is testament to that fact. A true slave would never be allowed to leave.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickolie0990
    Yes, jobs suck. I will never have a another job again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Judy Garland
      Different people have different value system, which determines their behavior and choices. And every chices should be respected. Whatever, it's his/her choice to live his/her life. Just be brave and be yourself, and respect others' way.


      _______________
      Judy Garland
      Comm100 Newsletter, Free Hosted Email Marketing and Newsletter Solution
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Yes they are.

    What do I think about that post? Perfect... No one could've
    possibly laid it out better.
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  • Profile picture of the author David
    For a long time I've been in the jobs suck camp
    (also refused to read the article because of the pop up, it refused to let me get to the "close" button)

    however... on my LinkedIn page I'm getting job offers, pretty good ones

    Fortune 100 companies seeking SEO manager, I'm liking what I'm hearing,
    offer is enough to get me to want it, what it'd do for my resume / portfolio sounds even better than the money!

    Everyone I know is loosing their job and I'm getting offers (and getting new business as well so I don't really need either one, job offers are a back up to my business so I can afford to "get my price")
    Signature

    David Bruce Jr of Frederick Web Promotions
    Lawyer Local SEO - |

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  • Profile picture of the author sandra.IMqueen
    The thing about jobs is they keep us Just Over Broke but that doesn't make them bad. The way our society is structured ,we need people who are in jobs and we need the entrepreneurs. Not everyone who is in a job has what it takes to be an entreprenuer and I know for sure many entrepreneurs would make lousy employees.

    However, people in jobs need to take time out to look at their talents and see what they could do in addition to their jobs. Everyone has unique skills that they could put to use to create an additional income stream.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Jobs are only filthy habits if you're Mike Rowe.
    Dirty Jobs : Discovery Channel

    Orvil, there's another essay similar to the one you posted, but much better written, at 10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job.

    Now for the Eric Graham essay:

    The idea that property tax means you actually "rent" even a "free and clear" property from the government has nothing to do with where you get the money - from a job or from your own business. It may be a good point, but it's an irrelevant rant.

    The idea that a mortage means you actually "rent" a "house you own" from the bank has nothing to do with where the money comes from - from a job or from your own business. It's another irrelevant rant.

    The idea that self-reliance is necessary because the government can't be trusted to provide a "social safety net" has nothing to do with whether it's better to earn money from a job or from your own business. Yet another irrelevant rant.

    The idea that an HSA, high deductible plan plus pay as you go can provide more cost effective medical treatment has nothing to do with where the money comes from - from a job or your own business. Still more angry ranting.

    The argument about the purpose and history of the current education system would be much more compelling with some citations or examples.

    The point that a college degree is not just about the content of the courses, but also a screening tool for persistence at assigned tasks, is not really a big secret.

    He is right that you need to be aware whether the person teaching you knows what they're talking about. But to dismiss all business courses, saying "Real education is ALWAYS self-education," goes too far. For example, I'd be thrilled to take a Harvard Business School course from professor Michael Porter.

    There are some secret agendas in media and government, but pissing people off with a rant about jobs (that's not really about jobs) is not the most astute way to expand consciousness of the masses.

    He then throws in an out of context Bible quote and immediately calls his readers "morons."

    If I wasn't reading this for the purpose of review, I'd simply give up on the article at that point. Ironically, just after this is where the article should begin, with everything up to that point thrown away!

    The specific reasons that a business owner has more power and profit than an employee are good ones: flexibility, control, multiple streams of income, breaking the trade of time for money, tax savings, better benefits. I see from the comments that some people got inspired by the ranting part of the essay to consider these points. Personally, I'd have been much more inspired by a happy, optimistic, positive walk-through of those advantages, rather than by a pissed-off rant against the current system.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

    Here is a post that I found to be a real interesting read.

    Jobs Are Filthy Habits That You Should Kick As Soon As Possible! | The Conversion Doctor Blog

    What do you think?
    I think on my laptop, the close button for the opt-in box is below the fold so I cannot even read the site.

    Why they have both a opt-in banner that renders the site useless for some users; but ALSO use a footer pop-up... Sheesh.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew McNaught
    The world would be a strange place if we all sat at home blogging like that guy.
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  • Profile picture of the author trevor75
    Well I only feel its a job if your not doing something you truly love. Which unfortuantly thats about 80% of the population. However, if your doing something you absolutely love doing, then its not a job, its a passion. Or just having fun. Its not work if your having fun. ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
    Some of you are clearly passionate about this,
    as I am -however...

    In the time it takes for you read the article and respond
    (assuming you did read the article), sit down and think
    about what was talked about and step outside your
    ego before you make a decision to write it off as "common
    sense" or "I already knew that" or the all to common
    "some people like their jobs"...because I promise you this:

    Most of them DON'T and if they had a choice, they would
    almost ALWAYS choose their own business or a profession
    where they have a controlling stake.

    I know, because I ask people - literally - lots of them.

    And the #1 thing they ask for is more CONTROL over their
    own lives, especially the area where they have to put food
    in their mouths and their kids - finances.

    It's easy to take things like this personal if you are the
    guy/gal who made the decision to give up your time doing
    something you absolutely hated for the last 5-10 years of
    your life, only for some guy to show up and tell you that
    you've been wasting your time.

    I'd feel devastated - and possibly defensive if i were one of
    those people. so i get it.

    And you can argue that trading your time for a job is just as
    bad as writing articles, creating WSO's, selling products, or
    offering your service(s) for a fee.

    But the point many who make this argument fail to make is
    that YOU can earn as much or as little as you want - at ANY
    given point of time with NO limitations nor restrictions on what
    you feel like making. Am I selling articles? sure. But guess what?
    I STILL have control over my income based on the value I give...
    and the more articles (or better the quality), the more money I
    can command for them - commonly known as "freelancing".

    Try doing that at a job, and unless your doing sales commissions,
    your extra value will count for nothing but a "job well done" and
    you'll still be paid the $7 an hour you agreed on just like the hour
    before it.

    This is just on the topic of "selling your articles like a part-time
    job" subject. Let's not even get into the unlimited potential there
    is when you sell your own products or sell affiliate products.

    Quite frankly, when I started in business, I was scared that I
    may not have anything of substantial value to offer to warrent
    making more than the $7 I was used to making an hour - who
    was I to believe that I can make $700 in one hour, when it takes
    me 3 months to get the same results?

    Could be that most are afraid to see what their true value and
    worth is in the marketplace. Because it's nothing more than a
    reflection of your "self worth". And stripping away the security
    and looking behind the double-sided mirror is a scary thought
    especially when you learn there was little if any substance there
    to begin with.

    It's a wake up call. I know it was for me.

    We must all accept that some people will never totally see
    the benefits of making money on their own terms without
    having to answer to anyone...for most, they were RAISED
    to be told what to do next, how to do it, and the reward
    they'll get when they do it at the end of every hour.

    It's normal. Rational. And hard to argue with, so why bother?
    If it truly makes them happy, leave them be.

    I grew up on public schools and trying to "de-brainwash"
    yourself actually takes effort and hard work to find your
    own answers.

    "It's hard to find freedom, control and choices when you don't know it's there to be found. And so many are stuck believing getting a good job is all there is worth getting. "



    ...
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