RANT: Perfect Example Of Why People Fail at IM (How Would You Respond?)

14 years ago

If this issue is really bugging you..why not try to spend
a few minutes with the guy...

Give him a few minutes, Maybe 5 or 10 minutes of your time won't
hurt much, it can be just in skype, even an email or chat.
Explain to him what you posted on this thread, maybe the items
you've listed could enlighten him on how to really succeed.

I once heard of a story of an ex-soldier who due to "frustrations"
emailed Mike Filsaime (I think it's more of a hate mail), In the story
Mike responded, and that interaction changed the
life of the man..I just forgot the name of the guy but if I remember
correctly he's somehow a Big wig now..

All the best,

Thanks

Signature

Medical Billing and Coding
Petition Against RA 10175
http://www.change.org/petitions/junk...prevention-law

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625161].message }}

Lance K

14 years ago

Ron we didn't make any money and we followed what you suggested. We are disappointed as when we tried to get some help as we really wanted to work your program there's was no one to help.

There's a hint of incongruity in there I'd say.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
~ Zig Ziglar

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625165].message }}

Martin Luxton 14 years ago

Ron

The reason why the IM is so lucrative is that most people DO fail and then buy the next big thing so they can fail again.

Emails like the one you got go with the territory. If they disturb you so much forget the IM niche and focus on your cooking sites.

As for the entitlement attitude, well, if people in this industry are used to getting list sign-up freebies 'worth' a gazillion dollars, of course for the princely sum of $49 they'll want an arm and a leg and your firstborn son.

Paul Myers discussed the trials and tribulations of marketing to desperate IMers in a recent post.

Martin
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625231].message }}

Lincoln Ryan

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625168].message }}

J Bold

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

Yeah, I'm involved in Dan Thies/Leslie Rohde's course called SEO Braintrust and there are people like this in there. Granted, they are paying more ($250/month), but it's still annoying.

Dan has said countless times that it's not supposed to be a one-on-one course. Yet there are always people that want one-on-one help because they think their situation is so unique that it warrants it.

It actually shortchanges the rest of us because, since they can't get 1 on 1 help, they use these Q&A calls to pour over all these details that benefits nobody.

I see nothing wrong with having some one on one help for your customers. It's called "support." Merely have support tickets set up and people to answer the basic questions which most of them will be. Then they have their time to get those questions answered and not take away precious time for a Q/A call. I don't know what a Q/A call is supposed to be but isn't it supposed to be for questions? Regardless, if they had a support system setup to answer easy questions perhaps your calls would be used only for challenging questions. If it's too difficult for support, the owner of the site can always answer the question during the call. I don't see why that's "annoying" to this site you're talking about, especially if it's going for $250/month. Perhaps you wouldn't be so shortchanged if this little program you're a part of could understand such a basic concept.

Thanks

Signature

[Free] Learn How to Crush Web Traffic with Kenster

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625397].message }}

ArticlePrince

14 years ago

People who fail always need to blame someone, I'd give him a refund just to be done with it.

Thanks

Signature

FREE 500 word articles, PM me for yours!
(4 days only!)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625174].message }}

globalpro

14 years ago

Ron,

For what it's worth, and I feel like you are this type of person, I think you respond as someone who does have the knowledge and experience, with a "straight to the point, here's your problem" explanation of what THEIR problem is. Kind of like a teacher, parent, whatever. Pull no punches in a professional and business-like manner.

Then refund them and walk away.

Thanks,

John

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625178].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

To me it makes good business sense why not just help the guy out and spend some time with him ....

Gee .. I spend time with many people every single day and help and never get nothing in return and nor do I expect anything.

You base this on "well he only paid $49" ... Well who cares what he paid, it is good business to just help out if he needs some help. The additional and extra business that this person may give you will be well beyond that simple $49....

Sorry but I have to say it .. and not being rude here either..

You say people fail because they ask for help and you refuse to supply the help based on $49. Sounds like to me you fail due to not reaching out and helping someone that has asked for help on your system ...

James

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625204].message }}

Ron Douglas

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625260].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

I help lots of people all the time James. This was the first communication from this guy as I noted in the OP.

The $49 he paid was not for coaching. He already received what he paid for and a lot more.

My point is this Ron .. In the time you spend here posted on this thread and starting this thread you could have spent with him instead...

I understand and I am not knocking you in anyways.. I am just saying spend a few minutes with the guy and go on .. It certainly could not hurt and it would have been better than starting this thread...

Just saying is all ...

James

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625271].message }}

JohnZags

14 years ago

I agree with TheRichJerk..

The price tag on the product is not the issue. If somebody is having an issue with a product that you are selling - whether is be 13 cents or 13000... some form of support is warranted. Customer service is everything in the online business in which you are not dealing with people face to face. It seems like the person truly wanted your product to work for him but was having issues and seeking a solution.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

I've lost too many friends, but I've won too many bets..

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625331].message }}

Daniel Brock

14 years ago

It sounds like to me that Ron DID offer support to this guy via forum board.

Support is support regardless of what method it was done.

The customer demanded personal one on one attention over the phone('can we talk' I assume means over the phone).

He should have to pay extra for personal coaching like that.

I mean I myself try and support my customers as much as I can for free, but there is a cut off point somewhere. If you had to support all of your customers like that for $50, you wouldn't have time to do anything else!

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Clickbank #1 Best Seller: The Deadbeat Super Affiliate.
Click here to learn how to make money online in your bath robe and gym socks!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625369].message }}

Killer Joe 14 years ago

Not everyone is entitled to be successful just because they head down a certain direction with high hopes.

It takes stamina and perseverance along with a talent for handling the rough spots when nobody can hold your hand.

It amuse me to read where other posters here seem to think Ron should babysit this person.

What about all the others? Should he exclude those folks from having to face reality as well?

Where does it end?

As hard I try Ron's avatar doesn't look one bit like Mother Teresa's avatar to me, and yet some folks think he should be as benevolent as her.

And if you really feel that strongly about helping out this or any other dreamer you should hang a shingle out saying so.

Then after a while you can come here and ask for help with your rent money and we'll see what we can do for you. Hopefully :rolleyes: someone else will take your place and keep the cycle going.

Remember, this isn't a person that had a catastophic failure and needs one time assistance, this is a person who maybe hasn't learned enough about themselves to make the grade in business.

All the handouts in the world won't fill that void.

KJ
- [ 5 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625481].message }}
- Killer Joe 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Razer Rage
  
  And one other thing; just because I don't agree with your definition of what a failure is it doesn't mean you need to bite my head off.
  
  Actually, RR, I hadn't read your response, I stopped reading after of few responses from my good friend James.
  
  KJ
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625542].message }}

ksburgess

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

It sounds like to me that Ron DID offer support to this guy via forum board.

Support is support regardless of what method it was done.

The customer demanded personal one on one attention over the phone('can we talk' I assume means over the phone).

He should have to pay extra for personal coaching like that.

I mean I myself try and support my customers as much as I can for free, but there is a cut off point somewhere. If you had to support all of your customers like that for $50, you wouldn't have time to do anything else!

I agree with Daniel - it sounds like the fellow in the email has been directed to helpful articles and the forums on the backend already. That's what you get from a membership site. It's not one-on-one coaching.

Whining about a program not working is just not the way to succeed. The way to succeed is to keep at it until you find something that works. And to take complete responsibility for your results.

There are some scam products out there. But in general... you're responsible for your results.

I tell my kids every single day "you are responsible for your life." I don't let them blame me, my hubby, OR each other for their failure to do things (and oh yes, they'll try it... "Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaama, I can't do my chores because HE'S doing [insert lame excuse here]" ... me, mean mama that I am just tells them their chores are their responsibility, and they need to figure out how to get them done, even if "HE" is getting in the way :p)

I've had to tell people who take the whole "it's always somebody else's fault" that I can't let them be part of my life anymore. There's just no excuse for it.

You make your success (and the guy in the email makes his own success, too)

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625584].message }}

JohnMcCabe 14 years ago

For all the people telling Ron he should just "spend a few minutes with the guy", heed these words...

Dangerous Precedent

If you wipe out the line for this guy and reset it with "spending a few minutes", it makes it that much easier to move the line again. And again. Until you do finally reach a point that you have to say NO. When you do, you really upset the person who has seen you extend yourself over and over again.

Read the original email again. It may not have been a full-on rant, but there was a lot of entitlement there. "You guys (broad statement) just want our money and then ignore us when you have it (us, as in The People, generalizing to the population at large)"...

And suppose Ron does offer this guy a "quick 20 minutes every day" and others find out? Would they not be entitled to the same attention? For $49 per freaking year? Where would it end?

Back when I still lived in cattle country, there were times you could confine a herd of cows by stringing a wire around the field you wanted them to stay inside. At other times, you'd best have a pen made of 3" well pipe welded to 6" posts with serious footings...
- [ 9 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625808].message }}

kf 14 years ago

Ron - I'm not saying that is it, or that it isn't ... but this might be an opportunity to listen to your market. For every one person who takes the time to write about their 'pain', there may be 20 more not willing to express their frustration.

A quick solution might be to offer a bonus or upsell with your product that gets them access to a one-hour group coaching/Q&A call after enough time has passed for them to have gone through the product and started working it.

Just a thought. You may be able to see this as an opportunity instead of a PITA.

P.S. Just saw your post above --- guess I missed the point of your thread. But will leave my comments just the same. And as you pointed out - and one would expect of you - you're already offering help.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625428].message }}

mikemcmillan

14 years ago

I wouldn't worry about it. Motivation, "sticktoitivness" and uncompromising dedication are as important as anything else in IM. Sounds like this guy is short on all three. Look, there are guys with no college, with no special training, who are making boat-wads or cash out there due to the simple fact that they invest in their online education and are willing to experiment and find what worked best for them. They don't give up!

People have often pointed out that Edison tried something like 800 designs for the incandescent bulb before he found one that worked. When asked if he had failed 800 times, he responded, "No, not at all-I simply discovered 800 ways NOT to make a light bulb."

Don't lose sleep over it. I haven't seen your program Ron, but I know from the quality of your posts here and the tremendous success you've had that it surely contained very high-caliber content.

Thanks

Signature

I'll help you create a reputation-building evergreen product in any niche and launch it successfully!
Check it out here.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625226].message }}

JeffLam

14 years ago

I would say to have a good talk with them over their problems in a humble, polite and professional manner.

And if the customer still continues the stubborn attitude - well, you can't please everyone. Guess it's not their cup of tea. Refund them if it's within your guarantee.

Heck, refund them even just to ^your reputation/decrease your support problems.

However, if you can somehow talk and change the views, opinions and attitude of the customer: man, you've got yourself the next success story for your business.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

*********************
Secret Technique Effortlessly CATAPULTS YOUR Opt-In Rates By: 100%..200%..Even 400% Higher!
>> Interested? Click to find out more.. <<
*********************

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625232].message }}

TimCastleman

14 years ago

All of you who say Ron needs to talk with this guy are friggin nuts. Look you paid to be part of a membership site at $49 bucks or 13 cents a day. You think Ron should give up his time for 13 cents a day?

Seriously, you're smoking crack.

And another thing. If this guy comes at me and says hey man I did X,Y,Z and it didn't work can you, when you have a second, take a look at it and maybe offer some advice - hell i'll pay you another $49 just for a few minutes of your time. Thanks Ron.

But he doesn't - instead he blames Ron because his 13 cents a day doesn't get him a direct line.

Give him a refund and ban him. Then make it clear to members they are paying 13 cents a day to be there and if they want personal access they can get it for X amount.

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Effortless Outsourcing - 175 Proven Outsourcers Ready To Work For You Today

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625261].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Tim,
My membership = 32 cents a day.. I have detailed videos, detailed starter guide, faq's, and even a forum posted full of information and explainations..

Yet I still get questions and I take the time to help these members.. The money is not the point, everything in business is not about money. It makes perfect bussiness sense to help as customer service is one of the most important things in a business..

James

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

All of you who say Ron needs to talk with this guy are friggin nuts. Look you paid to be part of a membership site at $49 bucks or 13 cents a day. You think Ron should give up his time for 13 cents a day?

Seriously, you're smoking crack.

And another thing. If this guy comes at me and says hey man I did X,Y,Z and it didn't work can you, when you have a second, take a look at it and maybe offer some advice - hell i'll pay you another $49 just for a few minutes of your time. Thanks Ron.

But he doesn't - instead he blames Ron because his 13 cents a day doesn't get him a direct line.

Give him a refund and ban him. Then make it clear to members they are paying 13 cents a day to be there and if they want personal access they can get it for X amount.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625368].message }}

Rich Struck

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

All of you who say Ron needs to talk with this guy are friggin nuts. Look you paid to be part of a membership site at $49 bucks or 13 cents a day. You think Ron should give up his time for 13 cents a day?

Seriously, you're smoking crack.

And another thing. If this guy comes at me and says hey man I did X,Y,Z and it didn't work can you, when you have a second, take a look at it and maybe offer some advice - hell i'll pay you another $49 just for a few minutes of your time. Thanks Ron.

But he doesn't - instead he blames Ron because his 13 cents a day doesn't get him a direct line.

Give him a refund and ban him. Then make it clear to members they are paying 13 cents a day to be there and if they want personal access they can get it for X amount.

Yeah treating your customers like crap is a great way to build up a business.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626272].message }}

TimCastleman 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

Yeah treating your customers like crap is a great way to build up a business.

Rich -

I have spent more time with my customers than most people do with their families.

This guy was going after Ron and upset because he didn't personally give him time to answer all his questions. He accused Ron and said that his problems were Ron's fault.

I don't want a customer like that.

Ron helped the guy and for the record I try to answer every customer that emails me but if I got this email that guy would be banned quicker than me hanging up on OJ Simpson.

Sorry you don't agree with the way I run MY business.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Effortless Outsourcing - 175 Proven Outsourcers Ready To Work For You Today
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626299].message }}
- David Merriman 14 years ago
  
  As you know, when you're dealing with people online, you're going to get EVERY kind of reaction.
  
  Some people are going to be over-the-moon and complimentary aboout what you're providing them, other people are going to send threatening, psycho notices to you in all caps. And everything in between.
  
  There's really nothing you can do about this other than be polite, firm, and handle each situation as best you can. Or don't -- if you don't think it's worth your time.
  
  It's easy to take emails personally, but in the long run it's just going to waste your time and energy.
  
  - David
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626321].message }}
  
  Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago
  
  Folks...here's the bottom line. Take it for what it's worth to you.
  
  Each of us has to decide at what point we draw the line with our customers.
  
  If we make it very clear from the start that there line is here then there is
  no question on the other end as to whether or not they crossed it.
  
  I try to make that line as clear as I can, and agree or not, it's my business
  and therefore, can run it my way.
  
  Before you can tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do with a
  customer of theirs, you need to walk in their shoes.
  
  Sometimes you will find that they don't fit very well.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  My Soundcloud Music Channel
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626335].message }}
lisaann 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

Yeah treating your customers like crap is a great way to build up a business.

I just don't get this type of thinking.

If you say somewhere in your marketing materials that for $49 you're going to give them one-on-one email support for the next year, and then you don't follow through with that, then it's a problem.

If you tell people they're getting access to a course, training program, whatever, and then you get requests for one-on-one coaching, I think it's very reasonable that you can politely decline.

I've really never understood why people think they're entitled to this type of support. I would never expect it from anyone I buy a course from.

Lisa
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626344].message }}

Terry Hatfield

14 years ago

That is why I don't do a membership site for $49 a year. People in a membership site seem to expect support for some reason.

Maybe make a premium option that charges them a lot if they want one-on-one support. That whey they can upgrade if they want and understand that personal coaching is not free.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625354].message }}

Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

To me it makes good business sense why not just help the guy out and spend some time with him ....

Gee .. I spend time with many people every single day and help and never get nothing in return and nor do I expect anything.

You base this on "well he only paid $49" ... Well who cares what he paid, it is good business to just help out if he needs some help. The additional and extra business that this person may give you will be well beyond that simple $49....

Sorry but I have to say it .. and not being rude here either..

You say people fail because they ask for help and you refuse to supply the help based on $49. Sounds like to me you fail due to not reaching out and helping someone that has asked for help on your system ...

James

Two sides to this one:

1. Ron obviously has a lot of projects/businesses going on, and I know some are big time.

Therefore, he can't possibly provide broad coaching to every customer. It's just not practical, nor was it advertised (I assume).

2. Ron SHOULD have customer service and support to at the very least handle this person's frustrations.

First of all, it's not a good idea to handle widescale customer support when you have a lot of daily customers...both logistically and mentally, it's a drain.

Secondly, a customer support team can quash frustrations and put a lid on a situation which could boil over and result in negative word of mouth. In fact, I know that one sincere and empathetic email from the people you purchased from (and are having frustrations with) is all it takes to turn a situation around and actually have the opposite effect of GOOD support.

You don't have to coach someone, you simply have to spend the time explaining the situation and pointing them in the right direction. This is a 2 minute task for a competent support staff.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625396].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Hi Nick,
Oh I agree .. Personally myself I actually do all my own support. Of course you can not please everyone and you can not hold everyone's hand.. But let's get real for a minute..

Not everyone is going to ask for help, you are going to have something like 2 or 3 out of a 100 members that are going to ask for this to be explained better or something. That is not a proven statistical number I am just saying a rough estimate..

James

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

Two sides to this one:

1. Ron obviously has a lot of projects/businesses going on, and I know some are big time.

Therefore, he can't possibly provide broad coaching to every customer. It's just not practical, nor was it advertised (I assume).

2. Ron SHOULD have customer service and support to at the very least handle this person's frustrations.

First of all, it's not a good idea to handle widescale customer support when you have a lot of daily customers...both logistically and mentally, it's a drain.

Secondly, a customer support team can quash frustrations and put a lid on a situation which could boil over and result in negative word of mouth. In fact, I know that one sincere and empathetic email from the people you purchased from (and are having frustrations with) is all it takes to turn a situation around and actually have the opposite effect of GOOD support.

You don't have to coach someone, you simply have to spend the time explaining the situation and pointing them in the right direction. This is a 2 minute task for a competent support staff.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625444].message }}

Jeremy Kelsall

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Hi Nick,
Oh I agree .. Personally myself I actually do all my own support. Of course you can not please everyone and you can not hold everyone's hand.. But let's get real for a minute..

Not everyone is going to ask for help, you are going to have something like 2 or 3 out of a 100 members that are going to ask for this to be explained better or something. That is not a proven statistical number I am just saying a rough estimate..

James

I guess if you have 100 or 200 members or customers giving up 20 minutes of your time here and there isn't a big deal and is probably doable if you choose to do so.

But, what if you have thousands of customers like many people do? Even if 2 people out of 100 are asking for "personal" support - how do you manage that?

I've "lost" some people that I considered and still consider friends because I'm not still able to just jump on the phone with them for a half hour or an hour and walk them through things or look at all their sites and tell them what is right/wrong.

There came a time when I had to say "I don't have time to do it right now" and the reaction I got was pretty much "the hell with you then".

I guess it really depends on what scale you are operating on though.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

A Blog With Reviews, Drama, and a Few Swear Words.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626178].message }}

Sipboy3000 14 years ago

From what I gather, sounds like what Ron is saying is that this person never even gave him a chance to help them as he says this is the first time he got an email and he said he did reach out.

I can tell you from experience that there are a lot of people out there like that.

For example, I was generous enough to consult with a guy for free one time BEFORE he bought my stuff because he said he had some questions.

I advised him NOT to buy my product because for what he was looking for, he was not going to get that in one product. He was looking to become a master on the same level as me.

I told him he needed one-on-one consulting and training for that.

Then I told him my rates and he said he did not have the time or money to make that sort of commitment.

Long story short, the guy bought my product anyway and then had the nerve to ask for a refund on the basis that he was very unsatisfied because he was expecting to become a master!

This was after I had already told the guy "DON'T BUY MY STUFF!"

I just simply issued him a refund and went my way.

The moral of the story is that people like that actually do exist and it is a just a part of doing business.

Not matter how hard you try, you can never satisfy everyone.

Just stay true to yourself and kill 'em with kindness.

Tommie
- Thanks
Signature

Nothing here to see
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626239].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

As was already mentioned, this is when you hire and train staff ... It's that simple... I see a letter that asked for help but many keep on assuming the guy is asking for personal one on one teaching..

I did not see the letter say this and I am posting based on what I see that email say ...

James

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I guess if you have 100 or 200 members or customers giving up 20 minutes of your time here and there isn't a big deal and is probably doable if you choose to do so.

But, what if you have thousands of customers like many people do? Even if 2 people out of 100 are asking for "personal" support - how do you manage that?

I've "lost" some people that I considered and still consider friends because I'm not still able to just jump on the phone with them for a half hour or an hour and walk them through things or look at all their sites and tell them what is right/wrong.

There came a time when I had to say "I don't have time to do it right now" and the reaction I got was pretty much "the hell with you then".

I guess it really depends on what scale you are operating on though.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626463].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

As was already mentioned, this is when you hire and train staff ... It's that simple... I see a letter that asked for help but many keep on assuming the guy is asking for personal one on one teaching..

I did not see the letter say this and I am posting based on what I see that email say ...

James

can we talk and you help us through a few things we are doing online!

I read the email and he asked if he could TALK to Ron. It sure sounds like one on one to me. Maybe I don't understand your use of the term coaching but is sounds like he wants advice or "COACHING".

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626473].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I read the email and he asked if he could TALK to Ron. It sure sounds like one on one to me. Maybe I don't understand your use of the term coaching but is sounds like he wants advice or "COACHING".

He is asking for help .. I see nobody saying anything about a 20 minute phone convo ... Geez even Yahoo has built in phone functions... but again I see nobody saying anything about a phone or 20 minutes or anything..

Can we talk .. sure I am on yahoo right now lets get together .. That simple..

James

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626512].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

He is asking for help .. I see nobody saying anything about a 20 minute phone convo ... Geez even Yahoo has built in phone functions... but again I see nobody saying anything about a phone or 20 minutes or anything..

Can we talk .. sure I am on yahoo right now lets get together .. That simple..

James

Yahoo has built in phone functions? You mean like talking? He wanted help like in coaching?

Wouldn't that be like one to one coaching?

Just to discuss what he is doing? Yeah that is a 4 minute phone conversation.

Wait... He never asked for one on one phone coaching.

I am surprised you have the time since you code all your sites from scratch, help every customer with talk time on yahoo, build back links, create software and help the needy.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626529].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I am surprised you have the time since you code all your sites from scratch, help every customer with talk time on yahoo, build back links, create software and help the needy.

Yep it is amazing what focused people can do that have 3 computers on and connected and 5 different browsers open .. It's called multi-tasking ...

James

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626553].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Yep it is amazing what focused people can do that have 3 computers on and connected and 5 different browsers open .. It's called multi-tasking ...

James

Regardless of multi tasking, there is only so much time in the day. Especially when you are running a larger business like Ron is.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626559].message }}

Jeremy Kelsall

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Yep it is amazing what focused people can do that have 3 computers on and connected and 5 different browsers open .. It's called multi-tasking ...

James

Yup,

you code all your sites from scratch
Help hundreds of members a day
Program different stuff
Bookmark hundreds of different sites a day

and all with a personal touch

You are the man dude! I need to get together with you for some business consulting, I'm willing to pay if you have the time...

Nevermind, you think you can just call me on Skype and help me out?

Thanks

Signature

A Blog With Reviews, Drama, and a Few Swear Words.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626901].message }}

Ron Douglas

14 years ago

This thread was intended to show the mindset of people who are not successful and some reasons why they fail.

Nowhere in the thread did I say I wasn't willing to help the guy but some are questioning my customer support LOL. For the record, I help lots of people all the time for free even. I go above and beyond when it comes to customer service.

This was the first email I received from this person. I have a helpdesk and I reply to emails, so there is no issue with being able to contact me.

And for the record, I did in fact reach out to this customer and answered his questions.

Many of you know me from my success in the cooking niche, but I'm actually in several different markets that each produce a full time income on their own. I also have a family and a life. I can't get on the phone with everyone who sends me a nasty email but I do the best I can.

If you want unlimited free one-on-one coaching, seek out the kind fellows in this thread who seem to be offering it.

[ 11 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Ron Douglas, MBA, CFA, NY Times Best Selling Author, Making Money Online Since 2001

FREE Internet Marketing Tips | Secret Recipes | Nantucket | Buy Non-IM Solo Ads

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625414].message }}

richdirtygirl

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

This thread was intended to show the mindset of people who are not successful and some reasons why they fail.

Nowhere in the thread did I say I wasn't willing to help the guy but some are questioning my customer support LOL. For the record, I help lots of people all the time for free even. I go above and beyond when it comes to customer service.

This was the first email I received from this person. I have a helpdesk and I reply to emails, so there is no issue with being able to contact me.

And for the record, I did in fact reach out to this customer and answered his questions.

Many of you know me from my success in the cooking niche, but I'm actually in several different markets that each produce a full time income on their own. I also have a family and a life. I can't get on the phone with everyone who sends me a nasty email but I do the best I can.

If you want unlimited free one-on-one coaching, seek out the kind fellows in this thread who seem to be offering it.

You know what?

I don't really think this is the loser type... more on the manipulative side...

He/she probably did the program and got sooo close... but for some reason there is a lil piece of the puzzle not fitting right.

The text is very well written to get you to do what they want you to do, got out of your way and give one to one coaching...

that person might grow to be a great copywriter.

Unless of course, your impression comes from your interaction more than the letter itself.

This letter is a strong copywriting piece.

Laura

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

[WSO] Crazy Offer: Get access to my UNRESTRICTED PLR Article Directory for coins.
[FREE WSO] Step by Step guide to record and edit podcasts. Newbie friendly.
2 PLR articles a day FREE for a whole year!
Uncensored... Wanna play with me? ;) http://twitter.com/richdirtygirl
Blog fun! http://www.richdirtygirl.com/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626305].message }}

Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by richdirtygirl

I don't really think this is the loser type... more on the manipulative side...

Very good, Laura.

So that begs the question "How would they treat THEIR customers?"

Probably not an experience very many people would enjoy, I'm guessing.

KJ

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626336].message }}

Vagabond 007

14 years ago

Interesting thread.

I could write so much on this, but I'll just say there is so much more going on beneath the surface with this customer of Ron's. Some of you have picked up on it and some of you are clueless.

Me personally, I think that if Ron were to give this guy "free coaching" it would be the start of a never ending problem. Chances are the guy will never get it and 60 days from now he'll be just as upset, if not more.

I think SOME of the people saying "oh just him a few minutes of your time" are saying it because they aren't successful and don't understand the correct mindset needed in order to be successful.

And I saw at least one person saying it doesn't matter if it was $49 or $1,500....that the money issue isn't a factor. HAH! That's the silliest thing I've heard all day.

There is a dollar amount on your time. It's the ONE AND ONLY thing you'll never ever get back. Money can be lost and made again. But time, once it's gone....it's gone forever. If Ron's hour is worth $100 (which, I'm betting it's actually higher) then 15 minutes on the phone with this guy is $25 out of Ron's pocket. Which is half of what the guy paid for the course to begin with!!

ASSUMING Ron's sales letter didn't mention anything about free coaching or anything like that, then I think the customer is in fact being disrespectful of Ron's time.

So much more I could write about this, but I've already went on long enough. Plus, I doubt it will change anyone's mind anyway. If you "get it" this post will make sense. If you don't get it, you'll think I'm an ass and don't care about customers. Even though that is entirely false, but convincing you otherwise is a waste of time.

There's that word again.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The Ultimate Sales & Marketing Mind Map (Just updated - now twice as big!) - scott_krech - "Quite possibly one of the BEST WSO's ever."

www.UltimateMindMap.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626349].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

I find it amusing that a lot of people missed what you were saying Ron.

I am writing up an email to blame you for my failures. I was thinking that if you flew me out, allowed me to stay in your home and watch you build my business than I would be more than happy to purchase that $49 product.

Hey if that product will make me money then I don't see why you can't just help me out and I will pay you out of the profits.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626421].message }}

DonnaLeona

14 years ago

Hi,

I'm in several memberships by Geoff Shaw. This is what is posted on the memberships site that I paid only $35.00 for. That's a one time payment.

"As a Member of this Site... If it's NOT working for you I NEED TO KNOW.
You didn't just buy the training, you get my help too.
By answering your questions I can improve the training for everyone."

Now that's a great attitude and mindset to copy.

And it must work - take a look at the number of positive comments on his WSO. Also, I think he said he made $40,000 just before Christmas.

He is beloved by his members and most of us take his advice on the rare times he suggests we purchase something.

It's not the small amount they pay for your membership. It's the trust you build once they are "your people". You take care of them and they will take care of you.

A good quote is "How you do anything is how you do everything."

There is amazing amounts of money in an email list that trusts you. You give and then you get and sometimes in a big way.

I really appreciate the people that have taken the time to simply be kind and help me and others.

If that's you reading this: Thanks much!

~Donna

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626518].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Hi Donna,

Great points.
The issue though is the expectation of things if it is not included why should it be demanded and worse cause someone to blame the person who has provided a legitimate service to them?

There is a huge difference from saying I am struggling and it doesn't seem to be working and saying you have let me down
-WD

Originally Posted by DonnaLeona

Hi,

I'm in several memberships by Geoff Shaw. This is what is posted on the memberships site that I paid only $35.00 for. That's a one time payment.

"As a Member of this Site... If it's NOT working for you I NEED TO KNOW.
You didn't just buy the training, you get my help too.
By answering your questions I can improve the training for everyone."

Now that's a great attitude and mindset to copy.

And it must work - take a look at the number of positive comments on his WSO. Also, I think he said he made $40,000 just before Christmas.

He is beloved by his members and most of us take his advice on the rare times he suggests we purchase something.

It's not the small amount they pay for your membership. It's the trust you build once they are "your people". You take care of them and they will take care of you.

A good quote is "How you do anything is how you do everything."

There is amazing amounts of money in an email list that trusts you. You give and then you get and sometimes in a big way.

I really appreciate the people that have taken the time to simply be kind and help me and others.

If that's you reading this: Thanks much!

~Donna

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626527].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Hmm well your entitled to your opinion but if you email me and blamed me for your failure lack of work and lack of performance. the Only response you would get is. you have been refunded good bye. There is a way that is acceptable in asking for help but blaming me is not it.
simple.
-WD

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Do you know the whole story? Do you know the person's circumstances? Do you know WHY they are blaming you? And most importantly, why do you feel the need to write them off as a failure when they do?

For all you know, they could be right. I'm not saying this person is, or that Ron doesn't do his best.

For all you know, it could be nothing more than a simple misunderstanding.

It doesn't matter how rude a customer is. You should ALWAYS make an effort to try to make nice with them (again, I'm not saying that Ron doesn't do this).

A LOT of people are assuming that this person is just secretly trying to suck Ron's time, and get "free coaching". But NONE of them know this for a fact.

They also seem to think that because James, myself, and others, suggested that Ron spend a few minutes to talk to this person (without knowing that he had already done so), that we were saying he should give this person free coaching.

The last one, at least, is a completely wrong assumption to make.

It is ALWAYS a mistake to assume something about a person based on your first impression of them, and this is no different.

The person who emailed Ron could very well be looking for free coaching, and may end up wasting his time. I don't know that.

On the other hand, this person could have a real reason for being upset, due to something they did not read correctly (it happens). I don't know this either.

My point being, it can't hurt anything to just email the person and give them the help they need. You're not committing your soul by agreeing to give them help.

If you don't want to give them too much time, then explain to them right from the get-go that your time is limited, and you would prefer it if they used the public option for support.

Heck, you could even ask them for a link to the question they posted, and answer them.

As I said. You're making a mistake by writing someone off as a failure based on one email they send you. You are not making a mistake by trying to help them.

Like Jay said, it could turn into a good case study.

Okay, I'm done.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626569].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

I see so your saying I should let anyone waste my time with their problems because that is what good customer service is?

There is a way to bring an issue to someone blaming the person and inferring the problem lies on their end is not a way that is showing a teachable attitude nor is it giving me as the supporter a reason to jump in to help. If the person says He WD i have been trying things this way but I can't seem to get any action going. That is a Huge difference from saying Hey WD your product sucks and it is not working why can't you help me . if the product is proven, workable, explained, etc It is my job to stand behind my product 100% however it is not MY job to build YOUR business. no one is going to take responsibility for another's actions and I personally would just be done with it. I never said anyone was a failure btw but I do have a way and with the track record I have I will continue to do so. Customer service and manipulation of my time are 2 completely different issues. if the person is showing they want help that is one thing if they come off blaming me for their lack of success. that is another. in an industry with a 95 percent failure rate I would be an idiot to stop everything I am doing, assisting other creating products building my own business just to help someone who apparently is unteachable. no thank you. period.
-WD

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Well, thank you for letting me know that buying ANYTHING from you would be a huge mistake on my part.

I don't want to buy from someone who isn't willing to work with me...or swallow their pride and accept some customer criticism.

Is it fair for me to blame you for my supposed "lack of action"? (By the way, how do you know I didn't try your product? How do you know that your product doesn't genuinely have a serious flaw?) Maybe not.

I have a newsflash for you; people are irrational when they are angry. They say mean and unfair things. That's life. That's business. You can't change it, but you can at least try to work with it.

But hey, if you don't want to work with an angry customer, that's your choice.

I'm just not very impressed with a person who only gives customer support when it's convenient for them.

Thanks

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626622].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Well, thank you for letting me know that buying ANYTHING from you would be a huge mistake on my part.

I don't want to buy from someone who isn't willing to work with me...or swallow their pride and accept some customer criticism.

Is it fair for me to blame you for my supposed "lack of action"? (By the way, how do you know I didn't try your product? How do you know that your product doesn't genuinely have a serious flaw?) Maybe not.

I have a newsflash for you; people are irrational when they are angry. They say mean and unfair things. That's life. That's business. You can't change it, but you can at least try to work with it.

But hey, if you don't want to work with an angry customer, that's your choice.

I'm just not very impressed with a person who only gives customer support when it's convenient for them.

You can put me on your list of DO NOT BUY FROM if you expect phone conversations from me.

Too many people want to have their hand held instead of thinking for themselves. All for $49, $27 or even $7.00 prices.

The funny thing is if people actually did more work they would sort these things out themselves. That is how I learned a lot. It wasn't through ebooks or courses but from trial and error.

I didn't email people in anger saying I should get one on one coaching or a phone call when something didn't work out.

Instead I figured out why it didn't work.

A lot of these people will never make it in business.

[ 3 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626627].message }}

Ron Hitson

14 years ago

Now your post is funny.........

The most successful people in business get help. Do you really think they "figure it all out" by themselves?

Hand holding/help does not mean failure in business. That's a bit much.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE makes themselves successful. It does require the assistance of others.

Someone buy's your product
Investor's invest in your venture
Book publisher decides to publish your book...

In all of my example's there was assistance from others.

Ron

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

You can put me on your list of DO NOT BUY FROM if you expect phone conversations from me.

Too many people want to have their hand held instead of thinking for themselves. All for $49, $27 or even $7.00 prices.

The funny thing is if people actually did more work they would sort these things out themselves. That is how I learned a lot. It wasn't through ebooks or courses but from trial and error.

I didn't email people in anger saying I should get one on one coaching or a phone call when something didn't work out.

Instead I figured out why it didn't work.

A lot of these people will never make it in business.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"

-Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626663].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Hitson

Now your post is funny.........

The most successful people in business get help. Do you really think they "figure it all out" by themselves?

Hand holding/help does not mean failure in business. That's a bit much.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE makes themselves successful. It does require the assistance of others.

Someone buy's your product
Investor's invest in your venture
Book publisher decides to publish your book...

In all of my example's there was assistance from others.

Ron

I find your post pretty funny as well.

Someone buys my product and that is helping me how? They pay for something they want. Or am I missing something here.

Investors invest in my venture? How is that help? They are investing to make a return not to help me out.

Book publisher decides to publish a book out of the goodness of their hearts? No, it is to make money on the hard work of the author.

In all of your examples there was people who were helping themselves.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626711].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

You're going to need to give customer support one way or the other. So why charge cheap?

Too many marketers complain about not being paid what they're worth, or customers being too demanding of them for a mere $7.

But here's the thing; people treat you what you're worth. If you don't want to be treated like you're selling some cheap report, then charge $1997 instead. Who knows, you may attract better customers.

As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. What were you expecting for $7? Some IM Guru who is capable of doing everything themselves?

By the way, I'm pretty sure the person wasn't asking for a phone consolation, or even coaching. They just wanted help, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Why do you think Ron posted? You are missing his point.

People tend to want hand holding at any price point. The crazy thing is the more expensive the product, the less support is required.

What does the person expect for $49? A multi million dollar business on a platter? One on one coaching where others are paying in the thousands for?

We are going to have to disagree here. If you don't draw the line then people will consistently want more and more from you.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626697].message }}

Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

Okay, let me put this question to those folks who think that you should give
whatever amount of time a person needs to help them with their problem.

Let's say you have 2 products.

Product 1 - A $27 ebook that explains affiliate marketing.
Product 2 - A $3,000 1 month coaching course on affiliate marketing.

John Doe buys $27 ebook.

Are you supposed to give this person the same amount of time and support
as the person who buys the $3,000 coaching course?

If not (God, I hope nobody says yes) how much time?

An hour?
A day?
A week?

At what point do we draw the line?

If one on one support is not promised anywhere in the product, why do
some of you feel it is owed?

And if some support is owed, again, where do we draw the line?

Please refer to the 2 products I mentioned above in answering that
question and then tell me how fair it is to the person who paid $3,000
for coaching if I give the $27 ebook customer the same support.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature

My Soundcloud Music Channel
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626710].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Actually, I do agree about drawing a line somewhere. What I don't agree with is writing someone off as a failure based on one email they sent you.

Was it fair for them to accuse you for their problems? No. But people tend to do stuff like that when they're angry. You can either get over it, or you can complain about it.

What I also don't agree with is automatically assuming this person wants "hand holding". They just wanted a few questions answered, that's all.

I'm sorry, but if you're going to draw the line before you even try to answer the person's question...I'm not impressed with that kind of an attitude.

Do you work in the internet marketing niche? I am suspecting you don't do much in this niche. I could be wrong.

I have seen the same stuff in the real estate investing niche as well. Not on the scale of internet marketing but there is still an entitlement factor there.

Answering a person's question is one thing. First they have to ask you a question for you to answer.

Telling someone they only care about money because they won't talk to them personally is something entirely different. For some reason you are failing to see this and continue to make this into a completely different topic.

Ron already stated he had a help desk setup to answer questions. Well, why didn't he get the questions so he could answer them?

I didn't see any questions in the email. Why didn't he ask questions?

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626716].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Because he was angry. Hasn't it already been established that people tend to be irrational when they are angry?

I wasn't under the impression that there were any set rules that a person had to follow in order to get customer service. :rolleyes:

Why do you think people feel so entitled? Maybe it's because of the outrageous claims made in the sales letters.

So now you are making assumptions in regards to Ron's sales letter?

Do you have your home phone number on your sales page so people can call you for support?

Would you like it if your customers showed up at your home to ask you a few questions?

Probably not... that is why a lot of people have help desks or forums.

Yes, there are rules for how support will be given.

I think I will bow out of this thread since this isn't going anywhere. I have better things to do like support.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626753].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

I would appreciate it if you would stop misconstruing my words. I was not making assumptions about Ron's sales letter, I was speculating on a possible answer to your question.

And what does having a phone number or having customers showing up on your doorstep have to do with this?

I'm sorry, but you have blown this well out of proportion.

You are the one who seems to be making assumptions; for example, you are assuming that the person who emailed Ron is just some slimeball who is out to waste Ron's time.

You also assumed that I was attacking Ron's sales letter, even though you have no reason to do so.

I think I will also leave this thread. It is obvious that reasoning with you people is nigh on impossible.

Yes, I'm sure your customer service is top notch stuff. :rolleyes:

Funny, because I think you blew this out of proportion.

The guy didn't ask Ron any questions. He accuses him of not caring and only after money because he wouldn't talk to him. People can get frustrated but it doesn't mean they can treat or say anything they want.

You are the one making things up when it comes to what he wanted or how he felt when he wrote that email.

I didn't assume anything in regards to Ron's sales letter. I said you were assuming.

You said there are no rules for customer support. Well I illustrated that there are rules in how someone will get support.

I agree there is no reasoning with some people in this thread. :rolleyes:

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626785].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

What I meant is that I thought it was stupid for a customer to jump through hoops, or obey some "hidden etiquette" to get support. You're going to get some rude people. That's just a fact of life. There's no point in complaining about it.

I'm glad we can agree on something.

This is an example, imo, of blowing things out of proportion.

Why are you suggesting the customer is jumping through hoops to get support. Or that there is some "hidden etiquette"?

He can post a question at the help desk. He seems to have been able to contact Ron judging by the email that was sent.

How did he jump through hoops?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626956].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

I am not talking about Ron's case. Ron handled that particular case quite well.

What I'm talking about is what you are saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said (in essence) that if person sent you one email, just one, that was rude, that it meant they should not receive support.

I really have no idea what you are talking about anymore.

If this isn't about Ron's post than what is it about?

Please show me where I stated I wouldn't support someone if I got an email like that.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626982].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

You did not say it verbatim, but it was implied in the tone of your previous posts. It hardly matters anyway.

My only issue is people making assumptions about the person who emailed Ron, and then misconstruing my (and others) words.

I think that issue has been settled though.

You are complaining about people miscontruing your words but than go on to say that I implied things that I never said. :rolleyes:

You are assuming the man sent the email out of frustration. I am not assuming anything.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627001].message }}

ryanedmunds 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Why do you think people feel so entitled? Maybe it's because of the outrageous claims made in the sales letters.

I am willing to bet 49 dollars that is the reason why.

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Ok. Then if I buy your Guitar Tips, will you let me call you daily until I learn how to play like a pro?

Well I actually give those away free. I also don't make any outragious claims or promises that people will become millionaire rock stars.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature
North Bay, Ontario|Bunn Coffee Makers
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627096].message }}

richdirtygirl

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Very good, Laura.

So that begs the question "How would they treat THEIR customers?"

Probably not an experience very many people would enjoy, I'm guessing.

KJ

LOLOLOLOLOL I think you are right!!

Laura

Thanks

Signature

[WSO] Crazy Offer: Get access to my UNRESTRICTED PLR Article Directory for coins.
[FREE WSO] Step by Step guide to record and edit podcasts. Newbie friendly.
2 PLR articles a day FREE for a whole year!
Uncensored... Wanna play with me? ;) http://twitter.com/richdirtygirl
Blog fun! http://www.richdirtygirl.com/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626787].message }}

AnnaHamer

14 years ago

If I buy Steven Hawking's book can I ring him and get him to explain string theory to me. I could just get mad and say it's his fault I still can't figure out the meaning of life.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625415].message }}

JayXtreme

14 years ago

Ron...

Don't you smell a case study in this?....

I have a 35 page brochure that I show to offline businesses. It came as a result of a few e-mails like this.

If you can personally get one or two of these guys into profit, you'll have fans for life.. and a killer case study proof of how your stuff works.

Think of the air you could clear for him with just a quick 20 minute conversation each day. You can't help them all... but hand picking one or two to really work on is rewarding, I know this.

And all the while, he/she can be building you a portfolio of proof to display.

Of course, * the results are not typical and most people will give up before they even try to make any money.

Peace

Jay

* = disclaimer

[ 3 ] Thanks

Signature

Bare Murkage.........

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625439].message }}

Tschimuun

14 years ago

giving a refund and move on is better for your business then ignore him. Some people will spam the internet, that really sucks.

Or try to give him tips. help him

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1625442].message }}

Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr. Goof Off

Ron is right and the customer is uninformed. He doesn't realize that Ron is not going to help him and hold his hand. It is a learning experience on the customers part. Ron don't want to be obligated to reach out over $49 and that's fine because that's his choice. An example is I cannot reach Tim Ferris anytime I want, but, I can reach Jim Straw and others. The customer didn't do his homework and I am sure Ron's sales page had gotten the newbie and his spouse(hence the "we") all fired up.

In anycase, a refund and a recommendation to the customer should be sufficient.

Mr. Goof off

P.S. Ron I am not trying to say you don't help your customers I am just saying some people are more prone to give more of their time to folks than others. Different strokes for different folks.

Nice try at an underhanded slam.

Perhaps Ron is too busy helping people with real potential to waste his time with folks who feel the proper thing to due is to 'guilt' someone into overextending services offered due to their entitlement mentality.

Guilt may have a place in potty training, but it rarely has a place in a business environment. Educational or otherwise.

Ron I am not trying to say you don't help your customers I am just saying some people are more prone to give more of their time to folks than others.

Perhaps Ron has a reached a level of wisdom as to whom to help you haven't touched yet.

Or maybe Jim Straw hasn't gotten around to demonstrating all the secrets to you just yet.

KJ

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626153].message }}

Jeremy Kelsall

14 years ago

Refund even without a reply.

In my experience, one of 2 things is going to happen....

1. You reply and try to defend your service saying you never got any correspondence - and he calls you a liar. Of course at that point, you have to respond to that - all the sudden you have 2 emails invested in someone that has already pretty much questioned your integrity. They don't deserve those 2 emails.

2. You try to help him - Then suddenly he thinks you are his personal coach for $49 and gets pissed off when you don't answer him in a couple hours time whenever he needs help.

lose - lose

Thanks

Signature

A Blog With Reviews, Drama, and a Few Swear Words.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626156].message }}

Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

I have a standing policy with any product I sell, and the people here who
have purchased from me can back this up.

I tell people clearly, any questions, just ask. I will respond. No problem.

I get 3 types.

1. The ones who never ask questions. Don't know whether they ever opened
the product up or not even, but I never hear from these people. Some of
them even buy multiple products of mine...and nothing.

2. The ones who have one or two questions, I answer them, and then I
never hear from them again...good or bad.

3. The ones who seem to have questions everyday. I answer every single
one of them. The time I end up putting in to these people amounts to
a hundred hours of coaching, if not more. And before question 1 even
comes, they're complaining already.

Almost EVERY SINGLE ONE of these people ends up writing me back 30
days later asking for a refund or bitching and complaining that they're not
making any money and it's MY fault.

I understand where Ron is coming from with this thread. The ones who
piss and moan and complain right from the start almost NEVER get things
to work.

Why?

Because that's the mindset. They really DON'T want to put the time and
effort in so they make all these excuses and they want you to spoon feed
them everything. Look at some of the questions and you'll see what I'm
talking about. I mean, things like "What if this doesn't work? Then what?"

Hey, how about trying it first?

Sorry, but I'm the first person to bend over backwards to help people,
but when the complaints start coming in after just reading the book (it's
too hard) that's when you have to learn to cut your losses. Otherwise
you're going to be spending countless hours with people who aren't going
to get it anyway.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

My Soundcloud Music Channel

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626159].message }}

TelegramSam

14 years ago

Dear OP,

What did you promise to give him for his $49?

Was your sales letter and sign-up process full of hype or not?

Should the guy realistically think he got his money's worth or not?

Only you and he know this.

Sam

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626165].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

This issue is being drawn or pulled in a different manner than what Ron is saying.

The problem is not the sales process the problem is lack of due dilligence and then turning around and blaming the person who gave you the tools. This is not an isolated thing people in society we have an instant gratification mindset. if it does not come in double quick time we get upset I say we because we are humans and it is human behaviour I am speaking of. the fact is it would not /does not matter how good the product is how much time you spend with them or how much effort you pour into them.
NO ONE can do it for another . business is work for some reason people seem to think because it is online it should be quick and easy and some frauds purport it this way but the fact is business is work and requires learning perseverance and testing over and again until you "get it"

I offer training/coaching but I also will kick someone out faster then they could blink if they are wasting their time and inevitably worse my time. refund- good bye you are the weakest link. essentially when someone says your not doing this that is what they mean You are not building my business i don't want to do the work I want YOU to do it for me I did after all pay you 49 bucks for that. good God 49 dollars just for training would get you 20 minutes of my time. not a lot of miracle cures are gonna come from that

of course with my one membersite it is a bit different however. the principle remains the same NO ONE is going to do it for you!!!
Waa wahh sickening how often this happens but the answer for all remains the same do you due dilligence work work work learn apply work for crying out loud
-WD

Thanks

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626482].message }}

matthewd

14 years ago

People have to be willing to help themselves first,
and unfortunately it's a lot easier to just put the
blame on someone else.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626511].message }}

moneyblogger1

14 years ago

This is funny, just another typical middle-class person

Thanks

Signature

Suck a video? Hate creating them? Let us do it for you. Get a custom video for 1/10th the industry standard price: http://www.angulusmarketing.com/Video.html

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626524].message }}

Ron Hitson

14 years ago

I don't think he's blaming anyone........He's frustrated and is seeking help.

I think people fail online because they don't have a solid foundation or they spend money with someone they trust and the person flakes out on them therefore they become jaded about IM.

It seems like the guy really wants to succeed but he cannot get help.....help the guy out, it just makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

I just got this email (below) from a customer who paid $49 for a yearly membership to one of my sites. How would you respond to this guy?

Note: this was the first email I received from this person. And I have since replied and tried to help him.

Personally, I think this email is a perfect example of why people fail online:

1) He is blaming me and other gurus for his lack of success

2) He has an entitlement attitude as if I owe him one-on-one coaching for the $49 he paid. He thinks he is entitled to success just from signing up.

3) He gave up after not seeing immediate results. The system I outlined for him works if you stick with it (and I have real success stories that I'm proud of), but he didn't see results right away so he wrote it off as a scam.

I guess it's all my fault though. Thoughts?

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

"Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"

-Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626647].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Oh Geesh. Do you understand you are talking about a product. that the persons is demanding to have a service included with? and your going to tell me I would be wrong for not jumping in? You want my time join my site where I offer it. buy a product from me and then blame me because you cannot figure the thing out is not going to do anything for you and being as it is not an option to include coaching or training why should I then completely disregard that and jump in what makes you so special over the hundreds of others who buy? I will say one more time there is a huge difference from asking for help and blaming me for your problem. you can spin it anyway you like but for the record my customer service is untouchable I go out of my way. but if I got an email like Ron did inferring I was to blame. I would not waste my time nor writing I would simply say GOOD BYE
-WD

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626662].message }}

Rich Struck 14 years ago

This thread is not only hilarious, it is a great eye opener for me.

The man who will use his skill and constructive imagination to see how much he can give for a dollar , instead of how little he can give for a dollar, is bound to succeed. - Henry Ford
- Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626687].message }}

Marian Berghes

14 years ago

Razer I think your going in a whole new direction here, and its wrong.

Customer support is one thing, ex:

You buy a home muscle training thingy...you can;t figure how to set it up, you call CS and ask them for help.

What your saying is:

You bought the same thing, started working on it, didn;t loose weight and now your calling CS to ask them to help you loose weight...because you did try their product and you really wanted it to work right?

At least thats how I see things in this matter.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626703].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Oh Geesh. Now your trying to put words in my mouth.

Hey WD I bought your product it is cool but I am not having much success with it this is what I am doing. x=d x=c x=y.

So I respond. hey customers name how are you . I am sorry your finding this to be an issue try doing x=a x=b x=c let me know how that works for ya.

your interpretation of this other way
Hey WD F your product sucks I am getting no results why can't you help me

WD Hello. I have refunded your purchase thank you for your time I am sorry it did not work for you. end of discussion

See there is a huge difference in how I would respond it is easier for me to get rid of that customer then it is for me to spend a lot of time trying to correct their issue. I do not go out of my way for things like this. No Way. one will lead to 10 coming to me in a way where you are actually trying and showing me your willing to give it a go is one thing. expecting anything to just do something for you without putting effort out is a waste of my time. simple.
-WD

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626705].message }}

MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

You don't know this. That is my point. You can't judge a person based on a single email they send you.

Actually, when you start getting a few emails like these, you CAN tell by the first one. And the more customers you get, the more of these emails you will see. I don't care who you are or what product or service you offer.

As pointed out by Thomas, there is INDEED a huge entitlement factor in this niche. I go through it all the time.

I have to admit though - I enjoy making people apologize to me for sending me emails like the one Ron got. I don't ask for an apology. I don't demand one either. But inevitably, they all apologize.

And oddly enough - every time I have one of these exchanges with one of these people, I invariably OFFER MY PERSONAL HELP. I tell them that when they are ready to ACCEPT my help to call me.

So far, exactly ZERO have called.

So, yes. I can spot these people after only one email

Oh, and for the record...if someone emails me for the first time and calls me a scammer, or tells me my product sucks without ever emailing me before, that is a SURE way to never get anything from me but a refund. I don't care how frustrated they are, that isn't called for.

I don't get frustrated about work stuff then take it out on my family. I expect the same consideration from my customers. If they can't be civil, then I don't want their money.

And if that statement keeps people from buying from me...so be it. I know me, and I know the level of support I give to those who simply ASK for it. None of them call me names or treat me like crap (at least not to my face

)

[ 10 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627031].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Actually, when you start getting a few emails like these, you CAN tell by the first one. And the more customers you get, the more of these emails you will see. I don't care who you are or what product or service you offer.

Heck, I am able to tell when someone will refund based on their emails.

That is before they purchase. lol

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627058].message }}

MikeAmbrosio 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Heck, I am able to tell when someone will refund based on their correspondence. That is before they purchase. lol

LOL - actually, I can too at times.

Recently, I got an email with literally 12 questions about an ebook I sell for $10 (yes, TEN DOLLARS).

I get that people are struggling now. But if you need that kind of reassurance for a $10 ebook, I don't want your money. In fact I responded to that email with a download link and a "Merry Christmas".

What some people don't get is that many successful people on line today were NOT successful instantly. They worked HARD to get that way.

I was 5 figures in debt when I started my online business in 2001. I never asked for anything or expected anything for free. I did a LOT of bartering, but I always gave something in return (my time and skills).

It took me five years to make consistent money online. I didn't get here by emailing people whose products I bought saying it sucked, or by expecting hand-holding for that $27. I invariably understood that I had to work, learn and apply.

And guess what? That simple formula worked for me.

It's like trying to lose weight... people look for those miracle "don't have to exercise or stop eating the foods you love and you will lose 30 lbs in the next 90 days!" type products, then bitch when they don't work. When all the while, the answer stares directly at them...

Change your habits, mindset, how much you eat and most of all, get up off your ass and MOVE.

Shortcuts...they don't exist. Hard work. That's the answer.
- [ 3 ] Thanks
Signature

Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627084].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Well we are going to agree to disagree here because your not getting what I am saying and I am not going to continue to defend myself here.

Customer service is of the utmost importance. after being in business for over 6 yrs I think I have an understanding of what I say.

-WD

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626739].message }}

Tom B Banned 14 years ago

I personally think we should all get Allen Says personal phone number when we advertise a wso. hehe
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626771].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Listen,

As a membersite owner I deal with a lot of things one of my members has posted in here already I think I do an awful good job and I walk with them step by step. they pay for that. that is upfront included in their membership.

I do not use a help desk I handle everything myself. however. if someone is having trouble that is one thing. if someone is expecting me or my product to do the work for them. what am I to say to that . OK? no way!
-WD

Thanks

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1626779].message }}

N4PGW

14 years ago

"How would I respond?" and "Thoughts?"

I would at least try to talk to him long enough to determine if he could reasonably be helped or if he needed a refund. If I could not reasonably help him, I might refer him to an alternative free product to try from another guru.

Thots?

Ron later says he talked to the man before writing this thread, so I am guessing the conversation reinforced the idea of entitlement mentality. There is no hope for someone who maintains entitlement mentality. Until they change their way of thinking, they can't succeed. One lottery winner of over 100 million dollars is proud of herself because she lasted two years longer than the average winner who goes broke in three years.

I agree with JD. Some customers are better off being refunded and sent back home. The IM niche is highly geared toward promising to help others. The problem is you can only do so much. Help those you can and leave the others for someone who knows how to help them.

If you find you are turning back more than you are keeping, that should tell you something... Look at your market or your product cause somethin aint rite!

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627002].message }}

ryanedmunds

14 years ago

If you want to run a businnes that teaches people a method for making money, then you're going to have to teach them until they learn. That is the business you have chosen to run.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

North Bay, Ontario|Bunn Coffee Makers

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627026].message }}

MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ryanedmunds

If you want to run a businnes that teaches people a method for making money, then you're going to have to teach them until they learn. That is the business you have chosen to run.

Ok. Then if I buy your Guitar Tips, will you let me call you daily until I learn how to play like a pro?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627056].message }}

ryanedmunds 14 years ago

Actually I give them away for free.
- Thanks
Signature
North Bay, Ontario|Bunn Coffee Makers
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627100].message }}

Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ryanedmunds

If you want to run a businnes that teaches people a method for making money, then you're going to have to teach them until they learn. That is the business you have chosen to run.

That's the main reason for the "sales funnel", and that is why you see people teaching... "Sell 'em an ebook for $47. Then have a follow up product for $97 to sell to the folks who actually downloaded your $47 product, unzipped it, and took action and now want to learn to take things to the next level."

"Then you sell them your $249 advanced tactics course that will make a few of those buyers want your $1997 software/bootcamp/DVD/mega course, whatever." Some people want, and are willing to pay for higher education.

But there's no point in sitting down with a first grader and trying to teach them Calculous. Learning is a cumulative process. You start out with the basics and you add knowledge blocks until you gain enough of a grasp on the subject that you become self-sufficient.

That's why the sales funnels has proven to work so well. A lot of people want to choose their teachers, and if they like the first product they bought from you, they may also like the next level product(s) you sell.

But for cryin' out loud, if you expect the first product you buy from someone to obligate that person to take on the duty of making sure your appitite for "What do I do now" is satiated, then you have the expectations of a dreamer and not of a successful doer.

And that attitude will over-shadow all your efforts and keep you from success. But it will guarantee you got what you deserved.

KJ

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628309].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Thanks for that Mike and Thomas. that is exactly the truth and exactly the way we should conduct our business. thank you!
-WD

Thanks

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627095].message }}

ZZ2008

14 years ago

Glad to hear you sent the guy an e-mail and tried to help him out. That quick e-mail probably meant the world to him.

Although I am a newbie to IM I am not a newbie to customer service in the corporate world. I have to say that I was appauled at all the senior warriors in here that wrote the guy off becuase he only spent 49 dollars and then suggested to just give him a refund.

I believe you took the high road in sending a personal e-mail to the guy which probably took less then five minutes off yoru time which, chances are, washed away all the negative energy he focused on you, brought back the original trust you instilled in him with the original purchase, and most likely paved the way for an upsell.

Two things in which I truly believe are responsible for my success so far, over deliver on your product/service by at least 5 times and treat others as "you" wish to be treated.

Agree or disagree, just my two cents

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627116].message }}

wrcato2

14 years ago

Ron, I can kind of understand where your customer is coming from. It is a fustration because of there own lack, lazyness and it is all on there part. Believe me it is. Not yours. You are busy with your business and maybe doing personal coaching etc.
When my wife and I ran our ISP way back when we had several customers that when they had a problem with other people sites or couldn't figure out how to get email, ect. they called us and freaked out like the world was going to end. They thought that because we were an ISP that when they couldn't dial in to the internet that we had a special button to push and Att&T's telephone lines would magically allow them access.

Actually we had one customer that thought because they had dial up, they didn't need to pay there phone bill because they had our service.

It is my opinion, I think that you should call or email them, have them explain what they did how they did it and how long they did it for then offer them a personal coaching one on one for half the price. this may stop any bad messages or articles being written up about your product. and it may make them a really good word of mouth affiliate for you.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Bite Size Bets â€œHow to Cash in Big Time Placing Small Bets - You're No-Cost Guide To Domain Investing."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627128].message }}

richdirtygirl 14 years ago

mmmmm this is a very educative thread, especially to know who's who...

you have those who are buyers, those who are clearly sellers, and maybe some posers as well... but of course, I can be wrong here.

I personally think that copywriting in the sales letters has a lot to do with the customer service nightmare.

IM is one of the desperate niches for a reason: there is a lot of people desperate who hang from this as the last chance to take the head off the water.

Desperate people is dangerous, desperate people is pushy, desperate people will do what it takes to get what they want. And if a desperate person doesn't have what it takes to make it, he/she might cling from you until choking you with no regrets.

When in a sales letter someone says, I'm like you... that seller is opening the door to the guy/gal to get into his office, sit in his desk and try to befriend his other.

When a seller is saying, if I can do it you can do it. He is opening the door to have a very upset person if he/she/it can't make it.

And bottom line, it is not true that anybody can do it. At least not with a particular method.

I'm trying to draw the line and be very specific in the sales letters lately (since we draw the IM grid). Of course I'm losing a LOT of business because of this... not sure how clever it is.

Maybe the solution as a seller is to make a choice and cope with the consequences, whatever they are...

Laura
- Thanks
Signature
[WSO] Crazy Offer: Get access to my UNRESTRICTED PLR Article Directory for coins.
[FREE WSO] Step by Step guide to record and edit podcasts. Newbie friendly.
2 PLR articles a day FREE for a whole year!
Uncensored... Wanna play with me? ;) http://twitter.com/richdirtygirl
Blog fun! http://www.richdirtygirl.com/
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627221].message }}

JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Because he was angry. Hasn't it already been established that people tend to be irrational when they are angry?

I wasn't under the impression that there were any set rules that a person had to follow in order to get customer service. :rolleyes:

Why do you think people feel so entitled? Maybe it's because of the outrageous claims made in the sales letters.

How could anyone possibly misconstrue this? Rage, it seems you are living up to your screen name. Calm down...

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627227].message }}

Lance K 14 years ago

People are starting to make some assumptions in this thread. Go back and read the OP...it's pretty straight forward.
- Thanks
Signature

"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
~ Zig Ziglar
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627255].message }}

JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

John, please. It was not one, single, very specific sentence that was being misconstrued.

If you read this whole thread, what is being misconstrued becomes very obvious. I even point out a couple of examples.

I honestly don't know how you got it in your head that I was referring to just one sentence, let alone that sentence in particular.

And believe me, I AM being calm.

Razer, I did read the whole thread, end to end. You got peeved because Ron labelled the email and subsequent communication as indicative of a failure's behavior pattern. Then when people challenged you on it, the scope kept getting wider and wider and you seemed to get more and more worked up.

You seemed offended that someone might be accusing you of claiming Ron's sales letter was over-hyped. While you did not name him specifically, in context one could get that impression. I pointed out the passage where that might have happened.

You accused people of making negative assumptions about this individual, all the while blithely making positive assumptions with about the same degree of reliability.

It sounded like you were starting to take challenges to your statements as personal attacks. Just my perspective from reading the thread in chunks as the day went by. Hence my comment about calming down...

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627299].message }}

Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Hence my seeming "over-reaction" to "personal attacks". No, they weren't personal, but they were indirectly aimed at myself and others.

One poster in particular called myself and others "clueless" and implied that we were failures and internet marketing.

WOW, I didn't see anyone state you were clueless or a failure in internet marketing. I, personally, thought you didn't have a lot of experience dealing with customers in the internet marketing niche.

That doesn't mean "clueless" or a "failure".

Maybe it is insecurities but you are totally twisting things in this thread and making it personal.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628195].message }}

JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

And even AFTER having a lengthy conversation, assuming someone is a failure, frankly, it out of line. It is not the place of any one person to decide if another person is a failure or not. That decision rests on the person in question.

Talk about misconstruing words... Pot, meet kettle. I went back to the original post, #1, and here is what I found:

"Note: this was the first email I received from this person. And I have since replied and tried to help him."

and
"Personally, I think this email is a perfect example of why people fail online:"

The first person to use the word "failure" was a smart-ass reply in post #2 - I think you know this guy:

"Tell the guy that in order to be a successful failure, he must sound more angry about it. "

While on some metaphysical, philosophical plane, you may be right about only a person being able to judge themselves a failure, if you work with enough people over enough years in enough different fields, you get a pretty good eye for who might not succeed at an individual undertaking.

Ron never said that the guy was a failure. He said the behavior exhibited was common to people who failed at IM, and he's right. Doesn't mean the guy is a failure as a human being, just that he may not be cut out to be an entrepreneur at this stage of his life.

You were the one who sarcastically suggested that the guy failed at being a failure, then later jumped on the moral high horse.

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

By the way, you still haven't explained why you specifically pointed out one sentence and (apparently) assumed that was my basis for words I believed to be misconstrued.

That was one example. The quote in red (above) is another.

You made broad, sweeping statements that, in context, would seem to be painting Ron with the same brush without naming him. When challenged you started accusing people of misconstruing your words. Buddy, on a text-based forum, that's all you got.

I've said my piece, and I'm done with it...

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628233].message }}

WD Mino

14 years ago

Razer,

You have now turned this thread from what the original purpose was which we all know and made this a personal crusade. you are being a prime example of why I would drop that customer instead of "work" with them it never ends one things gets adressed and the next thing comes up. ridiculous.

You also told Ron to begin with you gave the email a 6 out of 10 and he should drop him and move on"Quote "we"? It sounds as though this person has multiple personalities.

I give it (the email) a 6 out of 10. It wasn't as outrageous as I hoped it would be. Tell the guy that in order to be a successful failure, he must sound more angry about it.

Just give him a refund and move on if you don't want to be bothered. "</quote

you are being such a hypocrite in your statements you go after me then thomas now your trying to start with John John doesn't usually comment and tell someone they need to calm down or more point out what they are seeing you should really take notice.

In the meantime what is the purpose of you posting in a thread entitled this is a prime example of why people fail at IM you are just not making much sense in what your saying and I for one thank you for all the posts it really proves the point thomas jeremy myself and mike have inferred it Never stops and it truly is a waste of time. there is an old saying the customer is always right. O.K. so when someone emails me and says I can't succeed and infers I am a scammer or my product is geared to suck people in I say O.K. and give them their cash back. if someone emails me and says I am struggling I am all over it. that is where the line is drawn.
-WD

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627699].message }}

zerofill

14 years ago

I can tell you what irritates me...

I guess this is the difference between me...and some people...

If I had a question about something...I might send a request for support in. But by the time I got a response I would know the answer...Or I would have failed trying to find the answer out...but I would have tried.

I can't tell you how many times I may have called some place like Dell's server tech support for a question about a rack server that may be having issues and by the time they get on the phone I know the answer because I was searching all the time while I was on hold.

Like if I wanted to know how to do a redirect or something simple like that...I might request support but I would be searching for the answer in the meantime.

Some people get into a helpless state and expect to make money in that state. No drive at all...

They will blame everyone under the sun for why they didn't succeed...well they will blame everyone other then themselves...

It amazes me how many people ask simple questions like how to use FTP when a Google search will show 8 million ways...I have a hard time believing that aspiring internet marketers have not figured out how to search Google yet.

The deer caught in headlights way of going through life will get you nowhere fast...

Then there are some that by the time you answer their questions they are like...Thanks but I found the answer already. WOOHOO...guess what...those people are going to MAKE IT!

Or "thanks I was looking all over but couldn't figure it out" WOOHOO They are going to make it too....

The "Well I have been waiting for 3 days now for an answer I can't do anything until you reply" <----FAILURE...Yes you can if you have any motivation.

This doesn't change the fact of giving support for products...because you have to give support for your products. But you can tell who is going to be successful and who isn't rather easily.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Serp Shaker
The IM World Will Be Shaken to the Core!
Join my list at: IMCool.Biz
New Podcast --> podcast.imcool.biz

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627769].message }}

Gail_Curran

14 years ago

Donald, that was very well put. Good problem-solving skills are essential to IM success. But it seems that some individuals don't have those skills. Is there a way to teach people how to solve problems in relation to IM? Or is problem solving in general something you have to learn early in life.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1627989].message }}

zerofill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail_Curran

Donald, that was very well put. Good problem-solving skills are essential to IM success. But it seems that some individuals don't have those skills. Is there a way to teach people how to solve problems in relation to IM? Or is problem solving in general something you have to learn early in life.

Tough questions really...sometimes I almost think your born with it lol.

Problem solving skills...I would assume they become sharper with trial and error...as you go through life...Actually I know they do.

The biggest problem I think is many people don't learn from their mistakes. If they learned form their mistakes they would gain some problem solving ability to apply to future issues.

I don't want to take this off track...but I know someone that lived in their parents house til they were like 31 years old...I kid you not...

Great person etc...but he has a severe case of learned helplessness and problems with decision making. Now he is going through issues that I notice I went through 20 years ago learning the lessons of life...yet he is making those mistakes at 40 years old...

I sit back and watch and listen to the issues and go... damn I am glad I went through that learning curve years ago LOL...

He is financially screwed, still makes about $11 an hour (Which is bad in this area of the planet), and is miserable...

I am guessing by 50 he will probably start coming out of it...and realize things have to change.

The thing is some of the people I see that "set themselves up for failure" have traits I see in this guy...

Thanks

Signature

Serp Shaker
The IM World Will Be Shaken to the Core!
Join my list at: IMCool.Biz
New Podcast --> podcast.imcool.biz

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628521].message }}

Home Easy Earn

14 years ago

As long as you made it clear that things do work differently for different people then there is no guarantee that this will work for everyone. On the other hand if someone tried to contact me because they were not happy with a product they had bought from me I would make sure I spoke to them to try and sort out their problems.

From the original post it seems that this person feels he has been ripped off by other people and is now assuming you are doing the same. What a wonderful opportunity for you to prove you are not like the so called rest and imagine the good word he would spread about you if you got him sorted out. The great advertising he would do for you by word of mouth would cost you a small fortune anywhere else.

Thanks

Signature

Best Regards
Garry

Free coaching on how to make money online in 2012

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628042].message }}

MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Ah, what is failure anyway but an opportunity to learn

That holds true in all aspects of life. Not just business.

I failed at MANY things in my journey for on line business success. Heck, it took me years to figure some things out that others figure out in a day.

But I learned from those failures. I never blamed a product or any person for my shortcomings. I was even taken by one person to the tune of $17,000 - but I didn't blame them when something I did or tried didn't work.

That's where the mindset comes in. Temporary frustration at trying something and failing is no reason to call someone a scammer, etc.

This business - or any business - is not right for everyone. Sometimes, people are simply better employees than business owners or entrepreneurs. Discovering that about yourself will save you a lot of pain and frustration - and there's nothing wrong with it.

Self-awareness is a wonderful thing.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628296].message }}

Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Ah, what is failure anyway but an opportunity to learn

That holds true in all aspects of life. Not just business.

I failed at MANY things in my journey for on line business success. Heck, it took me years to figure some things out that others figure out in a day.

But I learned from those failures. I never blamed a product or any person for my shortcomings. I was even taken by one person to the tune of $17,000 - but I didn't blame them when something I did or tried didn't work.

That's where the mindset comes in. Temporary frustration at trying something and failing is no reason to call someone a scammer, etc.

This business - or any business - is not right for everyone. Sometimes, people are simply better employees than business owners or entrepreneurs. Discovering that about yourself will save you a lot of pain and frustration - and there's nothing wrong with it.

Self-awareness is a wonderful thing.

Mike, I love reading your posts. There is so much common sense and
wisdom in them.

Now if only somebody would answer my question.

Steve is sad today.

J/K

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

My Soundcloud Music Channel

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628350].message }}

Tom B Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Self-awareness is a wonderful thing.

Self-awareness gives you control over your life. Much better than giving it to someone who sold you a $49 product.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628404].message }}

lifetrax

14 years ago

I think there are a couple ways to think about this.

First, if you are new and looking to build a loyal base, and you're looking for a way to gain the trust of someone, you may want to spend some time with this person to let them know you care about their success. One BAD review can cause others to not purchase the product and could cost more than the time spent.

Second, since a positive review can earn you back tremendous amounts compaired to the time you spend, then it probably would have been worth a quick email to the customer guiding him toward some free information that might smooth him over. Likely would have taken the same amount of time it took to write the original post.

Now, all of our time is valuable (at different levels) and it's hard to say how each person COULD respond to this type of complaint depending on their personally determined rate of pay. IE. Newbie respond, you're building your reputation.

I think if I were to receive an upset email like that, I'd respond by letting that person know that like anything "Success Takes Time And Money!" and we're not in the get rich quick business. However, if you're willing to take action, believe it will work, and be consistent with your efforts, you'll likely succeed. Most people lack the consistency part and ultimately say it doesn't work......

All in all, I'd email the customer quickly and let him know that his money is not worth upsetting him. If he doesn't feel the product was worth the money, then you would be happy to issue a refund. Let him know that you wish you could personally respond to every request and provide one on one coaching but you have a limited amount of time and have found the best way to do that is through forum/faq's.

If he's looking for a get rich quick, he's going to spend a lot of money and a little time and ultimately quit, and we can't help someone like that. But if he is willing to put in the time like the rest of us.....someday he'll be dealing with the same "Inbox" email.

Okay, back to work.....time is more valuable than money. Just ask any dead person. They'd give you everything they ever had for just one more hour.....

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1628398].message }}

RANT: Perfect Example Of Why People Fail at IM (How Would You Respond?)

Trending Topics

Infographic: How B2B marketers on LinkedIn can maximise their efforts for better audience reach

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

Some interesting stats about brand comms

best high quality crypto traffic.