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'Secret' Keyword Research Tip - This is VERY Eye Opening!

by Zeus66
142 replies
Those of you who didn't know about this are gonna really love this tip! I honestly cannot remember who I first learned this from or I'd give him/her credit, but this is not something very many who don't eat, breathe, and sleep this stuff know about. If you're at the beginner or even intermediate level, this will probably kind of amaze you. I started to just write out a detailed explanation, but it's just so much easier to show than write about, so I made a quick video.

Trust me, this will be a very eye opening 5 minutes if you aren't already pretty advanced at keyword research...

#competition #ecret #eye #google #keyword #keywords #opening #research #tip
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Yeah, this is something I actually learned last year but don't really use it
    much because I never worry about competition anyway. I think competition
    is overrated IF you know how to get sufficient content out there for the
    niche you're targeting AND know how to tie it all together through backlinking
    and other tactics.

    But yeah, if you're looking to target a few long tail phrases for a niche (when
    I did this, I found you need about 4 or 5 to turn into anything really substantial)
    this is a great tip and it does work.

    Downside is that it's sometimes EXTREMELY hard to find enough long tail
    keywords that have ANY kind of decent search volume, which is why I have
    personally stopped doing this.

    Anyway, excellent video and yes, it does work if you have the patience
    to weed through the junk.
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    • Profile picture of the author innocent07
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Yeah, this is something I actually learned last year but don't really use it
      much because I never worry about competition anyway. I think competition
      is overrated IF you know how to get sufficient content out there for the
      niche you're targeting AND know how to tie it all together through backlinking
      and other tactics.

      But yeah, if you're looking to target a few long tail phrases for a niche (when
      I did this, I found you need about 4 or 5 to turn into anything really substantial)
      this is a great tip and it does work.

      Downside is that it's sometimes EXTREMELY hard to find enough long tail
      keywords that have ANY kind of decent search volume, which is why I have
      personally stopped doing this.

      Anyway, excellent video and yes, it does work if you have the patience
      to weed through the junk.
      Good tip Steven, What monthly 'ranges' of keywords do you try to go for, when having a search? 1000-2000? 3000-4000?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        I'm all about giving, Jill. You know that.

        Now where are my double stuff Oreos! It's almost lunch time here!
        Isn't that just like a man, Jill? Offer a guy cookies one time and look what happens - you never live it down.

        :p
        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author innocent07
          Banned
          + which one are we selecting, when doing our keyword reseach (for content sites/keyword articles, etc)

          (copied from the external google adwords page)

          Descriptive words or phrases
          (e.g. green tea)

          Website content
          (e.g. www.example.co.uk/product?id=74893)


          What is the difference between both?

          and can you show some examples/scenareoos where you were using both?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by innocent07 View Post

        Good tip Steven, What monthly 'ranges' of keywords do you try to go for, when having a search? 1000-2000? 3000-4000?
        This is where you have to do a lot of math, much of it is based off of
        previous results. It's way too involved to get into here and is only going
        to confuse the hell out of everybody.

        So let me simplify it, though this doesn't do justice to the whole principle.

        Let's say you know, from past experience, that a keyword that has 2,000
        monthly searches brings you 200 visitors a month to your site, or 10% of
        the total volume.

        Let's say you convert at 2%. That means those 200 visitors bring you
        4 sales.

        If you want to make a sale a day for your product, or 30 sales a month,
        you need a little more than 7 times that volume of searches or about
        15,000 searches a month. That means you need about 7 or 8 phrases
        of 2,000 searches each to achieve this.

        That is NOT easy.

        Again, I'm talking a sale a day of say, a $25 product. That's $750 a month
        income literally from organic traffic, which isn't asking that much.

        Want to make $7,500 per month?

        Do this for 10 niches.

        The trick is finding enough of them with enough long tail keywords fitting
        the criteria AND a product that converts at 2%, for this specific example.

        Naturally, EVERYBODY'S mileage will vary as different products convert at
        different rates and different searches produce different amounts of
        actual traffic to your site, depending on where on the page you rank.

        That's why I say that a lot of this, at the beginning, is trial and error and
        THEN, applying those stats to future niches.

        And even then, since each niche behaves differently, you are taking a
        best guess with data that may not be all that reliable but is really the
        only thing you have to go on. The more niches you do, the more you will
        see patterns and get a better feel for how much traffic you can expect.

        Now, if you're only looking for $300 a month, then you don't need as many
        keywords. And of course this is providing that this is ALL you do and
        nothing else...which is not advisable.

        Anyway, hope this helps, though it's probably confused you even more.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          And even then, since each niche behaves differently, you are taking a
          best guess with data that may not be all that reliable but is really the
          only thing you have to go on. The more niches you do, the more you will
          see patterns and get a better feel for how much traffic you can expect.
          This is the key, imo. This is not an exact science. If you go into it with the idea that even excellent numbers will still sometimes end up flopping on you, you'll have your head on straight to do this long term without getting so deflated when things don't pan out every single time. Avoid the temptation to get bound up emotionally in every niche you go after. Sure, get excited if the numbers for a keyword look promising, but temper that with the knowledge that sometimes it doesn't produce the results you expect. Don't let that get you down. And when you do find a niche that really hits nicely, look for ways to expand in that niche. Before you know it, you'll have several traffic and income streams coming in and then it all just gets easier.

          Good stuff, Steven!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      John,

      Thanks for sharing, very informative. The "Zeus of keyword research" now? lol

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Yeah, this is something I actually learned last year but don't really use it much because I never worry about competition anyway. I think competition is overrated IF you know how to get sufficient content out there for the niche you're targeting AND know how to tie it all together through backlinking and other tactics......
      Exactly my thoughts on channels of distribution as well. I've yet to find a niche where the top players dominate every single channel of distribution. Not everyone uses articles and content for getting the word out. Not everyone uses press releases (in fact, most don't and the ones that do generally do a piss poor job at it). Not everyone gets on the radio as an expert guest to get wads of targetted traffic. Not everyone buys cable television ads. Most people don't know how to get their products on a CPA network for insane levels of traffic. You catch my drift.

      Lately, I've been focusing less on long-tail keywords and focusing more on keywords that convert. I've found some insanely good keywords that get wads of traffic (and are very expensive via PPC) and also longtails that do the same. I test them all out because to me it really boils down to what converts based on your pre-sale and sales funnel.

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Riz
    Hey John,

    Thanks for making that Video - very interesting, i'd never heard of that before.

    But, how do you determine what the correct number is? 127k, 74, 116?

    Riz
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Riz, the correct number is 116 in this case. Just follow the exact steps in that video and whatever number you end up with in the last step is the correct one.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Riz
      Just when you think you know a lot, you learn something new

      That's why i love this forum.

      Thanks again John.

      Riz

      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Riz, the correct number is 116 in this case. Just follow the exact steps in that video and whatever number you end up with in the last step is the correct one.

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    You could have just sold that little tidbit you kook.

    You just found me my new KW phrase for the week.

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

      You could have just sold that little tidbit you kook.

      You just found me my new KW phrase for the week.

      Thanks!
      I'm all about giving, Jill. You know that.

      Now where are my double stuff Oreos! It's almost lunch time here!
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      [QUOTE=avenuegirl;1653614]You could have just sold that little tidbit you kook.
      [QUOTE]


      Aaahh!!!!

      Sorry but that really bugs me.

      Some of us have shared this for free already in the past.

      Telling people to sell any piece of information that some people don't know is why the WSO section is filling up with crap.....
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
    Well I thought I was pretty good at keyword research but I'd never heard of this. After checking the keyword in Google I tried it out in Micro Niche Finder and it did indeed come up with 74 for the exact phrase count. I've often wondered if MNF was faulty (doesn't always come up with the same results as Google) but your tip has definitely shed some light on this for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author innocent07
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

    Those of you who didn't know about this are gonna really love this tip! I honestly cannot remember who I first learned this from or I'd give him/her credit, but this is not something very many who don't eat, breathe, and sleep this stuff know about. If you're at the beginner or even intermediate level, this will probably kind of amaze you. I started to just write out a detailed explanation, but it's just so much easier to show than write about, so I made a quick video.

    Trust me, this will be a very eye opening 5 minutes if you aren't already pretty advanced at keyword research...

    YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.
    nice tip, and voice sounds authority like too. Lets just say your voice sold me already, hehe
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    • Profile picture of the author rightwrite
      I was just going to say the same thing. Put a price tag on that voice! Perfect for video or radio.
      Originally Posted by innocent07 View Post

      nice tip, and voice sounds authority like too. Lets just say your voice sold me already, hehe
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  • Profile picture of the author 1960Texan
    John, that's awesome! Now I have to go back and recheck all of my niches.
    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe118
    It's a nice tip, but people need to remember that

    THE REAL COMPETITION IS THE FIRST 10 RESULTS

    It really doesn't matter what's on page 2 and onwards. It doesn't matter if there are 7 pages after page 1 or 103,000.
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      Originally Posted by Joe118 View Post

      It's a nice tip, but people need to remember that

      THE REAL COMPETITION IS THE FIRST 10 RESULTS

      It really doesn't matter what's on page 2 and onwards. It doesn't matter if there are 7 pages after page 1 or 103,000.
      Ah, I was coming in to say just this.

      Both the number of results in quotes and without quotes are meaningless. For starters, even if it says 127,000 Google will only return a maximum of 1000 results per each search query, so the top 1000 is your only competition.

      More importantly, as Joe stated, the top 10 (top 5 in my opinion) are the only sites you need to worry about.

      When I'm doing keyword research I don't even look at the number of results, I simply analyze the top 5 results. If I think I can out rank them I'll go after that keyword, if I think it'll be too difficult I leave it.
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      • Profile picture of the author olorunoba
        Thanks a million times it was an eye opener.
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      • Profile picture of the author carlos123
        Originally Posted by Pat Jackson View Post

        When I'm doing keyword research I don't even look at the number of results, I simply analyze the top 5 results.
        I know in my head that you are right to do so Pat. It would be hard for me to leave what I am used to keyword research wise. I think I start suffering withdrawal symptoms of some sort if I start ignoring that nice competition number Google gives us. I just have to weene myself away from that number!

        It's just so hard to not peek at it though. I keep thinking that I am missing something by not looking at that number LOL. I guess in time and with more experience it will get easier to ignore that number.

        Carlos
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    • Profile picture of the author David Neale
      I completely agree (well almost, I also see value in page 2 and 3) and I've been pushing this in the WF for some time with very little traction. The whole concept of the "competing pages" is an extremely broad indicator.

      In many cases I would call it completely irrelevant.

      First 3 pages are all that matters. What is the "SEO strength" of those 30 sites? That's ALL that matters.

      The concept seems to be that the more competing pages the better the SEO of the top 30. This simply isn't true in my experience, one has very little to do with the other.

      It all depend on the niche.

      One keyword phrase that shows 1500 competing pages could be very easy to crack the top 30 while another with 1500 competing pages could be almost impossible.

      The 1500 number means very little other than a very general indicator. Top 30 "SEO strength" is what matters.

      Originally Posted by Joe118 View Post

      It's a nice tip, but people need to remember that

      THE REAL COMPETITION IS THE FIRST 10 RESULTS

      It really doesn't matter what's on page 2 and onwards. It doesn't matter if there are 7 pages after page 1 or 103,000.
      Signature

      David Neale

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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by David Neale View Post

        It all depend on the niche.

        One keyword phrase that shows 1500 competing pages could be very easy to crack the top 30 while another with 1500 competing pages could be almost impossible.
        Yes, a lot depends on the niche. You're going to get more SEO savvy webmasters in some niches and not very many at all in others. But again, this is about correlation between the final competition numbers and typical Top 10 or 20 strength. I usually find that correlation to be strong. If a keyword has 200 competing pages in the final analysis, almost always its Top 10 or 20 will be much less optimized and much easier to crack than the Top 10 or 20 for a keyword that ended up with a lot more competing pages. Not always and yes, it is niche dependent for sure, but it's still a very good predictor (in my experience).
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        • Profile picture of the author David Neale
          Oh and I forgot to thank you for the tip. I was not aware of this at all.... great find.

          Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

          Yes, a lot depends on the niche. You're going to get more SEO savvy webmasters in some niches and not very many at all in others. But again, this is about correlation between the final competition numbers and typical Top 10 or 20 strength. I usually find that correlation to be strong. If a keyword has 200 competing pages in the final analysis, almost always its Top 10 or 20 will be much less optimized and much easier to crack than the Top 10 or 20 for a keyword that ended up with a lot more competing pages. Not always and yes, it is niche dependent for sure, but it's still a very good predictor (in my experience).
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          David Neale

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    • Profile picture of the author Polecat
      Originally Posted by Joe118 View Post

      It really doesn't matter what's on page 2 and onwards. It doesn't matter if there are 7 pages after page 1 or 103,000.
      Isn't that only partly true? The first page - and maybe the second and a couple more - are the actual competition to a searcher today. Yes sure.

      But every other site on every other page is competing for that Page One spot, so they are all competition in a sense (if they're working on optimization of some sort to move up).
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    • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
      Originally Posted by Joe118 View Post

      It's a nice tip, but people need to remember that

      THE REAL COMPETITION IS THE FIRST 10 RESULTS

      It really doesn't matter what's on page 2 and onwards. It doesn't matter if there are 7 pages after page 1 or 103,000.
      I agree with this completely too.

      If there were ane exceptions to this rule, then perhaps it is the first 20 results (first 2 pages) rather than the first 10.

      Statiscally it has been proven that more than 90% of search engine users do NOT go past page 2 of the search engine results.

      And most keywords, if you were to visit page 3 of the results page, start to show 'weaker websites' that aren't really all that great, but just ranked at the 3rd page anyways.
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      • Profile picture of the author searchnology
        Yeah, the drop off for clicks is quite significant after the first page. See stats below. These are for AOL but I've seen Google stats that are very similar.

        Nice post!

        SEO clicks by position (source: AOL)
        Ranking Number 1 receives 42.1 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 2 receives 11.9 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 3 receives 8.5 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 4 receives 6.1 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 5 receives 4.9 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 6 receives 4.1 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 7 receives 3.4 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 8 receives 3.0 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 9 receives 2.8 percent of click throughs.
        Ranking Number 10 receives 3.0 percent of click throughs.

        Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

        I agree with this completely too.

        If there were ane exceptions to this rule, then perhaps it is the first 20 results (first 2 pages) rather than the first 10.

        Statiscally it has been proven that more than 90% of search engine users do NOT go past page 2 of the search engine results.

        And most keywords, if you were to visit page 3 of the results page, start to show 'weaker websites' that aren't really all that great, but just ranked at the 3rd page anyways.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

        I agree with this completely too.

        If there were ane exceptions to this rule, then perhaps it is the first 20 results (first 2 pages) rather than the first 10.

        Statiscally it has been proven that more than 90% of search engine users do NOT go past page 2 of the search engine results.

        And most keywords, if you were to visit page 3 of the results page, start to show 'weaker websites' that aren't really all that great, but just ranked at the 3rd page anyways.
        As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I see a definite correlation between going through the process I show in the video first and the relative competition in the Top 10. Yes, you can just make a list of keywords and go immediately to the Top 10 to check competition. Nothing wrong with that. But I find that it saves me time in the long run to do this simple step first. Almost always I find that if the numbers tell me to expect easy competition, they're right. Not always, but it sure does weed out a lot of dead ends.

        John
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  • Profile picture of the author RainDrop
    Thank you for this! Very interesting
    I haven't really done much kw research, but after watching this vid, i decided I should really try this out.
    I checked the phrase

    spongebob birthday invitations

    All the way to page 33 of google it said

    Results 321 - 330 of about 248,000 for "spongebob birthday invitations".

    but then when I clicked on the last page (page 34)-

    Results 331 - 336 of 336 for "spongebob birthday invitations".

    So 336 is the correct count, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by RainDrop View Post

      Thank you for this! Very interesting
      I haven't really done much kw research, but after watching this vid, i decided I should really try this out.
      I checked the phrase

      spongebob birthday invitations

      All the way to page 33 of google it said

      Results 321 - 330 of about 248,000 for "spongebob birthday invitations".

      but then when I clicked on the last page (page 34)-

      Results 331 - 336 of 336 for "spongebob birthday invitations".

      So 336 is the correct count, right?
      Yes, you did it correctly. What this is telling you is that there are 336 actual competing pages in Google for that exact phrase, not the 248,000 they initially told you.

      I didn't cover it in the video, but the next step is to go back, run the search without quotation marks (because that's how most people search), and really look at the Top 10 or 20. If you see almost all are recognizable authority domains (amazon.com, shopping.com, etc.), then it's probably not worth pursuing. If you see a bunch of unrecognizable domains and sites featuring user generated content (like ezinearticles.com, squidoo.com, youtube videos, etc.), then you have a green light to proceed with that keyword.

      That's the watered down version. It's not always going to play out that way, but in a nutshell, that completes the picture.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenJ
      Hi John

      Best little tip I have seen for a while. Great little video too. You should be producing video products IMO

      Thanks

      Kenj
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Why, John, WHY do you search within quotes? I have never and will never understand the logic, and nobody has ever been able to give me a good reason for doing it this way. I'm not talking about the reason that everybody's been taught by the "guru's", but the REAL reason...
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets View Post

      Why, John, WHY do you search within quotes? I have never and will never understand the logic, and nobody has ever been able to give me a good reason for doing it this way. I'm not talking about the reason that everybody's been taught by the "guru's", but the REAL reason...
      Because I said so. Hey, that answer worked for my parents from age 2 to about 17 years, 364 days. So it's good enough for you, young lady.

      Ok, the real answer is that it's not foolproof, but a low number there tells you that you can most likely get in the Top 10 with a bit of work. You still have to delve into the Top 10, but more often than not, if the phrase in quotes has 1 million competing pages, the Top 10 is gonna be really tough to crack, whereas if you have 1,000 competing pages, you can probably get in there with a lot less work. You still need to check this of course. But this method is a time saver.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets View Post

      Why, John, WHY do you search within quotes? I have never and will never understand the logic, and nobody has ever been able to give me a good reason for doing it this way. I'm not talking about the reason that everybody's been taught by the "guru's", but the REAL reason...
      Lisa, John gave you a good explanation, but let me explain it in more detail...

      Without the quotes Google will count pages that have the keywords anywhere on the page in the results, but those keywords may not necessarily used together or in that particular order. For example, with the keyword phrase dog obedience training, without the quotes Google will return pages that use those three keywords anywhere on the page and in any order, and they could be separated by many other words.

      In other words, Google might count a blog with a post about a woman's dog, a separate post with a tip about how she encourages obedience in her children, and yet another post about a weight training class she's starting as relevant to the broad match search query.

      So a site like that would not be in competition for dog obedience training at all, but if you don't put the search in quotation marks you might think it's part of the competition because Google includes it in the broad match results.

      However, if you put the search in quotation marks, Google only counts pages that have those exact words used in that exact order on the page, which is a much better indicator of how much competition there is.

      Hope that helps.
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      • Profile picture of the author Laura B
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Lisa, John gave you a good explanation, but let me explain it in more detail...

        Without the quotes Google will count pages that have the keywords anywhere on the page in the results, but those keywords may not necessarily used together or in that particular order. For example, with the keyword phrase dog obedience training, without the quotes Google will return pages that use those three keywords anywhere on the page and in any order, and they could be separated by many other words.

        In other words, Google might count a blog with a post about a woman's dog, a separate post with a tip about how she encourages obedience in her children, and yet another post about a weight training class she's starting as relevant to the broad match search query.

        So a site like that would not be in competition for dog obedience training at all, but if you don't put the search in quotation marks you might think it's part of the competition because Google includes it in the broad match results.

        However, if you put the search in quotation marks, Google only counts pages that have those exact words used in that exact order on the page, which is a much better indicator of how much competition there is.

        Hope that helps.
        I'm going to jump in here with my guess that this was not exactly what Lisa was asking. I think her point was, Why do we search with quotes when what we really want to know is who appears in the results as potential customers see it? (Being that most don't use quotes when they search.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Laura B View Post

          I'm going to jump in here with my guess that this was not exactly what Lisa was asking. I think her point was, Why do we search with quotes when what we really want to know is who appears in the results as potential customers see it? (Being that most don't use quotes when they search.)
          Well, I guess we'll have to wait for Lisa to clarify her comment, because I'm not seeing what you're seeing in it. Thanks though. Lisa?
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    I use other tools but this was a nice little nugget ... good stuff. I wonder why G does this?
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Wow! This is really cool.

    I sent you a PM about it.
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    search engine cloaking
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  • Profile picture of the author PerigV
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    • Profile picture of the author SMS
      Great tip there John!

      The problem is that people blindly follow the Gurus, and lose out on a lot of money, or end up creating unnecessary headache for themselves.

      What you demonstrated happens a lot and not just for Phrase Matches. Even the Operator Searches like allintitle suffer from the same problem.

      Joe118 is also very very right. In many cases, you can rank for a keyword that has 2 million Phrase Matches much easier than you can rank for one with 50,000 Phrase Matches.

      Guys 'n gals listen to John & Joe. They might not be Gurus, but they are talking a lot of sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Blast you, John! This was going to be a tip in the first February issue of my newsletter using the term "best shoe horn" - which goes from 55,000+ to 47 (I'm not saying that's a good keyword, people, it was just for an example because it shows how Google lies). Now I'll have to find something else or all the Warriors who subscribe will think I'm copying you.

      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      John,
      Exactly my thoughts on channels of distribution as well. I've yet to find a niche where the top players dominate every single channel of distribution. Not everyone uses articles and content for getting the word out. Not everyone uses press releases (in fact, most don't and the ones that do generally do a piss poor job at it). Not everyone gets on the radio as an expert guest to get wads of targetted traffic. Not everyone buys cable television ads. Most people don't know how to get their products on a CPA network for insane levels of traffic. You catch my drift.
      I don't know why, but I hadn't thought of that before. If a person finds a good keyword and product but the competition is formidable, it makes perfect sense to see if the competition is weak or strong in the individual channels you're proficient at. Thanks, Rod.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        ......I don't know why, but I hadn't thought of that before. If a person finds a good keyword and product but the competition is formidable, it makes perfect sense to see if the competition is weak or strong in the individual channels you're proficient at. Thanks, Rod.
        You're welcome Dennis. Not to get too off topic here, but in one uber-competitive niche I notices that only one of the top players used the radio to drive traffic to his website and even then he did it sparingly. In another niche I noticed that nobody, I mean NOBODY had run any magazine or periodical ads. Mind you, you have to be very patient and have a budget to do this. It was nerve-wracking to do my first test because I figured if nobody was doing it there must be a reason.

        I'm glad I was wrong, our first magazine test in Maxim magazine did a little more than breakeven. We worked with our ad rep, made some changes based on our tracking codes, refined the whole process and improved our ROI.

        I notice in some niches that people don't use the Google content network, while others neglect using the image ads. You can clean up in some areas if you're willing to observe, test, track, and tweak.

        RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Crafty Blogger
    Great tip! I learn something useful everyday on this forum! I'll be sure to double check now, before "writing off" any of my long tail keywords...
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  • Profile picture of the author Voyager64
    Fantastic tip John. That makes me look differently at some of the ideas floating around in my head!!!

    Cheers

    Jon
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  • Profile picture of the author stan1111
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      John,

      I appreciate the video and never realized that the number returned after selecting to show all results is different from the number shown before but...I don't know if one should put much stock in a particular number returned by Google.

      There are lots of number descrepencies that show up. All over the place. From the numbers returned by Google through the keyword tool to the numbers returned by Google from different data centers handling the search query.

      I guess the important thing is the overall direction of the numbers and how the numbers compare overall with other numbers that are returned for different keywords.

      The numbers are valuable for showing general relationships and trends. But I am not sure that a number of 116 vs 74 is really all that significant.

      But even more important is whether what you are showing has actually resulted in an improved keyword selection to allow you to make more money.

      If I may ask John...have you been able to use the numbers you are showing in the video to actually improve your money making keyword selection? In other words what real difference has it made for you compared to the more "traditional" ways of doing keyword research? Has your approach helped you to personally pick more winners based on the bottom line of what you make from those keywords?

      Just curious if you care to share more about your personal experience using this approach.

      Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Laura B
    Thanks for the video! I had learned of this at some point way back when but since I didn't write it down, I forgot all about it. Nice job on the vid; you have a good voice.
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    • Profile picture of the author powerslave
      Thanks for the tip. Definitely one I will put to use straight away!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Let me see if this explanation helps at all, Laura...

    We do the search inside quotes for our own analysis of keywords for the reasons Dennis laid out. But when we get the green light from that in terms of low competition numbers, then we go back and search the phrase without quotes to see how tough the Top 10 looks.

    Now, that begs the question: why even bother with the search inside quotes if all you're doing is looking at the Top 10 without quotes anyway. And my answer is that it saves time. You can do what I show in the video really fast when you practice it a bit. And there is a strong correlation between very low competition numbers from that check and easy Top 10 competition. It's not always accurate as a predictor, but usually it is. So when I end up checking the Top 10 without quotes, it's rare that I find something out of kilter with what I expect. Hope that makes more sense. It's a time saver when you have a lot of keywords to check out.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Laura B
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Let me see if this explanation helps at all, Laura...

      We do the search inside quotes for our own analysis of keywords for the reasons Dennis laid out. But when we get the green light from that in terms of low competition numbers, then we go back and search the phrase without quotes to see how tough the Top 10 looks.

      Now, that begs the question: why even bother with the search inside quotes if all you're doing is looking at the Top 10 without quotes anyway. And my answer is that it saves time. You can do what I show in the video really fast when you practice it a bit. And there is a strong correlation between very low competition numbers from that check and easy Top 10 competition. It's not always accurate as a predictor, but usually it is. So when I end up checking the Top 10 without quotes, it's rare that I find something out of kilter with what I expect. Hope that makes more sense. It's a time saver when you have a lot of keywords to check out.

      John
      Thank you, John. I understand this, but I was just trying to clarify Lisa's question because it is one that pops up from time to time. I should have just kept my mouth shut and let Lisa speak for herself! LOL

      But I would like to get your thoughts on something Dennis said: "In other words, Google might count a blog with a post about a woman's dog, a separate post with a tip about how she encourages obedience in her children, and yet another post about a weight training class she's starting as relevant to the broad match search query. So a site like that would not be in competition for dog obedience training at all, but if you don't put the search in quotation marks you might think it's part of the competition because Google includes it in the broad match results."

      If we're talking about the first 10 results in a broad-match search, even if something unrelated shows up, it IS in effect our competition, isn't it? Although, obviously its position won't be hard to usurp.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by Laura B View Post

        If we're talking about the first 10 results in a broad-match search, even if something unrelated shows up, it IS in effect our competition, isn't it? Although, obviously its position won't be hard to usurp.
        Yes, ultimately the Top 10 results without quotes is your competition. But if you look closely, usually you'll see that they optimized for that phrase on the page that was ranked when it's a phrase with higher competition levels. Now, what you'll also often see - and this is the really telling part - is that some positions in the Top 10 for lower competition keywords were not optimized for that phrase. They just sort of slipped in there because Google couldn't really find something better in the big scheme of things. That's the telling factor. When I do what I showed in the video, then go do the Top 10 search, if I see even just 1 or 2 slots taken by pages that were clearly not optimized for my phrase, I hear a little "Cha-Ching!" go off in my head. MONEY!
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

          When I do what I showed in the video, then go do the Top 10 search, if I see even just 1 or 2 slots taken by pages that were clearly not optimized for my phrase, I hear a little "Cha-Ching!" go off in my head. MONEY!
          I definitely like the sound of that phrase too John. LOL

          Maybe I need to learn to expand my threshold of hearing such a phrase more since I only ever really look at the top four ranking pages in a given niche. I figure if I can't make it into the top four it's not worth going into since so very much of the traffic coming to keyword tapers off after the top 3 ranking pages have had their share.

          Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Carlos,

    Of course there are real world applications! I have found many keywords that before I knew this tip I would have written off, just as I mention in the video. I have 3 right off the top of my head that come to mind that I have pages for now that I would not have bothered with before, and all 3 add to my bottom line every month in Adsense and affiliate earnings.

    I do agree with you that the difference between 74 and 116 is insignificant. But the difference between 127,000 and 116 is HUGE in terms of what decisions you make about what to do with that keyword. That was the point of the video.
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Carlos,

      Of course there are real world applications! I have found many keywords that before I knew this tip I would have written off, just as I mention in the video. I have 3 right off the top of my head that come to mind that I have pages for now that I would not have bothered with before, and all 3 add to my bottom line every month in Adsense and affiliate earnings.

      I do agree with you that the difference between 74 and 116 is insignificant. But the difference between 127,000 and 116 is HUGE in terms of what decisions you make about what to do with that keyword. That was the point of the video.
      A point well made then.

      If I may ask something else why do you not use Phrase match instead of Exact matching?

      Exact matching will match perfectly of course but Phrase matching is a valuable indicator of the real traffic through a potential keyword phrase too. In many cases better than Exact (depending on the keyword phrase of course).

      Based on the description of the different matching phrases at https://adwords.google.com/support/a...er=6100#phrase, I wonder if you are missing some significant traffic numbers from your keyword analysis by using Exact.

      Carlos
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

        If I may ask something else why do you not use Phrase match instead of Exact matching?
        Because phrase matching isn't as precise for our purposes. It will include our exact phrase, but also when it appears within longer phrases. So you may well end up counting as competition pages that were actually optimized for other parts of the longer phrase and not your target phrase.

        Let's say I'm checking out the competition for "bark collars." I want to know search volume numbers for people who searched that phrase only. With Phrase Match, you get search volumes for searches done for both the target phrase by itself AND when people used your target phrase in longer search phrases.

        Example:

        Search volume for "bark collars for small dogs" (exact match) = 1,300
        Search volume for "bark collars for small dogs (phrase match) = 1,900

        That makes sense, because more people will search for phrases that just include our target phrase within a longer phrase than will JUST search for our target phrase and no other words in their search.

        I want the exact match search volume because that's telling me more precisely what kind of traffic numbers I can expect, depending on where I rank. Phrase match is less precise because it's harder to divine what the searcher is really after. I hope that makes sense.

        John
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Thanks for the added input John. I suppose you can't go wrong using Exact in a more conservative way, traffic wise. If you end up with more traffic that would have been picked up by the Phrase match...all the better.

          That's better I guess than going with Phrase and ending up with less targeted traffic than one might have been led to believe was there.

          Carlos
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Joe118 View Post

          It's a nice tip, but people need to remember that

          THE REAL COMPETITION IS THE FIRST 10 RESULTS

          It really doesn't matter what's on page 2 and onwards. It doesn't matter if there are 7 pages after page 1 or 103,000.
          While I generally agree with this idea, I think there are exceptions. Otherwise, why would a search engine waste the resources on returning more than one page of results?

          I can think of at least two cases where being close to the top 10 might be good enough...

          1. The top 10 are dominated by 'indented results', all from the same site. If that block doesn't promise the answer I'm looking for, I'll go to page 2 or 3 before tweaking my search phrase. I would wager I'm not alone. The same goes for page 1 results dominated by local search, videos, etc.

          2. The results on the first page are not meeting me where I am. Using the example John gave us, if I'm looking for more information about how bark collars work or if there are any hazards to using them, and all I see are shopping sites, I'll keep looking deeper.

          I'm kind of stubborn, so I may go deeper than the average searcher. Even given that, I rarely go more than 4-5 pages deep. So, if you accept that reasoning, you competition is still only the first 2-3 pages...
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          • Profile picture of the author magentawave
            Very cool. It would be awesome to see a video using this method with MNF.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
              Originally Posted by magentawave View Post

              Very cool. It would be awesome to see a video using this method with MNF.

              Steve
              Hi Steve, I use and love MNF, but it's almost $100 and a lot of people can't afford it, so I wanted to go to the source (Google's free keyword tool). I use MNF mostly these days because of its awesome Brainstorm feature. When you put up a lot of sites, one of the problems is coming up with niche/keyword ideas. That feature saves me SO much time! One of these days maybe I'll make a short video about how I like to use MNF and post it here.
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              • Profile picture of the author StephenDavies
                Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

                One of these days maybe I'll make a short video about how I like to use MNF and post it here.
                Now that I would like to see.

                Steve.
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          • Profile picture of the author william l
            This is yet another reason the warrior forum is the best source of Internet marketing knowledge, thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author ChrisJamesG
          Thank you for the tip! So what's the threshold number for this when competition is too high? Would you target anything that has less than 50,000 still when you're on page 12,13, etc?

          Cheers,
          Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
    You ca also try entering your search phrase, jst as you did, in quotation marks, then click the Advanced Search option immediately to the right of the regular Search button.

    At the next screen Select Results Per Page '100', Language 'English'. That returns an immediate result for the exact phrase "bark collars for small dogs" of 70 pages.

    Same system, a couple of steps less
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

      At the next screen Select Results Per Page '100'...
      Yeah...that's one of those things that can return different numbers. Way different at times so it's good to use that with a grain of skepticism included.

      Many times the numbers returned by using 100 per page vs leaving it at 10 are the same but sometimes they are WAY different for no discernable reason.

      Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author dadvocate
    Yeah I learned this one a while back from Travis.
    Very handy tidbit indeed.


    Shawn
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Pat (and Joe), as I've said in this very thread (I think more than once), I agree that ultimately it comes down to how tough the Top 10 or 20 competition is. What I'm telling you here is that there is a STRONG correlation between a low competing pages number using what I show in the video and the relative competitiveness in the Top 10. This takes almost no time to do, and it will quickly weed out keywords to even look at the Top 10 for. You can whittle down a list of say 50 keywords to 10-20 very quickly doing this and never even have to glance at the Top 10. What's more, there's "sort of easy" Top 10 competition, and then there's "really easy" Top 10 competition. This method usually shows you the "really easy" keywords in short order.

    Look, I know there are many ways to skin the cat. If you're farther along the IM trail, I agree you can cut this step out entirely and be just fine. But most are not that far along and this is a very good thing to learn to do. It widens the margin of error, if you follow what I mean. You can screw up your analysis of the Top 10 to a bigger degree after doing this and still come out fine. I know it helps newbies and intermediate folks because I see it happen all the time. So, yes, you're right, but with an asteriks. LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      I just think it's important that people learn to study the real websites on the front page rather than the total number of results Google returns.

      I've found keywords before that have returned in excess of 100,000 when searching in quotes, yet, the competition on the first page wasn't very strong at all.

      Had I been going the traditional route of choosing keywords based on number of competing pages, I would have completely disregarded keywords like that when I shouldn't have.

      There is one time, however, that I will take on this approach.

      If I'm just trying to find 20-30 extremely low competition keywords to write some articles about I will generally try to find a bunch of keywords with less than 20k results.

      When I do it I know it isn't the best way to go about it, however, as a general rule a lot of the keywords with that number are going to be fairly easy to rank for. I also do it because I don't want to spend too much time finding these types of keywords.

      I do think using this method should be used occasionally like in the above example, but I think you're shooting yourself in the foot if you use it exclusively.


      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Pat (and Joe), as I've said in this very thread (I think more than once), I agree that ultimately it comes down to how tough the Top 10 or 20 competition is. What I'm telling you here is that there is a STRONG correlation between a low competing pages number using what I show in the video and the relative competitiveness in the Top 10. This takes almost no time to do, and it will quickly weed out keywords to even look at the Top 10 for. You can whittle down a list of say 50 keywords to 10-20 very quickly doing this and never even have to glance at the Top 10. What's more, there's "sort of easy" Top 10 competition, and then there's "really easy" Top 10 competition. This method usually shows you the "really easy" keywords in short order.

      Look, I know there are many ways to skin the cat. If you're farther along the IM trail, I agree you can cut this step out entirely and be just fine. But most are not that far along and this is a very good thing to learn to do. It widens the margin of error, if you follow what I mean. You can screw up your analysis of the Top 10 to a bigger degree after doing this and still come out fine. I know it helps newbies and intermediate folks because I see it happen all the time. So, yes, you're right, but with an asteriks. LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      You can whittle down a list of say 50 keywords to 10-20 very quickly doing this and never even have to glance at the Top 10..,

      Look, I know there are many ways to skin the cat.
      Exactly...this process helps you skin a lot more cats in the same amount of time by prequalifying the cats with loose skin.

      I can't believe I just wrote that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Laura B
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      What I'm telling you here is that there is a STRONG correlation between a low competing pages number using what I show in the video and the relative competitiveness in the Top 10. This takes almost no time to do, and it will quickly weed out keywords to even look at the Top 10 for.
      Okay, now I understand more clearly what you're saying. I guess it took a rewording to make it click, for me at least!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe118
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Pat (and Joe), as I've said in this very thread (I think more than once), I agree that ultimately it comes down to how tough the Top 10 or 20 competition is. What I'm telling you here is that there is a STRONG correlation between a low competing pages number using what I show in the video and the relative competitiveness in the Top 10. This takes almost no time to do, and it will quickly weed out keywords to even look at the Top 10 for. You can whittle down a list of say 50 keywords to 10-20 very quickly doing this and never even have to glance at the Top 10. What's more, there's "sort of easy" Top 10 competition, and then there's "really easy" Top 10 competition. This method usually shows you the "really easy" keywords in short order.

      Look, I know there are many ways to skin the cat. If you're farther along the IM trail, I agree you can cut this step out entirely and be just fine. But most are not that far along and this is a very good thing to learn to do. It widens the margin of error, if you follow what I mean. You can screw up your analysis of the Top 10 to a bigger degree after doing this and still come out fine. I know it helps newbies and intermediate folks because I see it happen all the time. So, yes, you're right, but with an asteriks. LOL
      And just to be fair to John, he goes into all this strength of competition stuff in other videos in his YouTube channel. And John is about giving -- really true. The stuff he gives away in his videos is the stuff others are charging for.

      I agree that people should learn as much as they can, while using their brain. Noone has a monopoly on the truth, not the goo roos nor Joe118 or Zeus

      Zeus, is it really true that there's a strong correlation between the number of pages returned by your method and the competitiveness of the top 10? If yes, that would be a very good filter. Is there perchance also a correlation between the number of pages with this method and how profitable the niche is? LOL

      I think of keyword & niche research as a series of sieves. They can be applied in many orders. Each sieve is good for narrowing the number of choices (degrees of freedom if you will). I'm definitely not saying that your sieve is bad, I'm just saying that people should not stop there. And your other videos (in the YouTube channel) teach many other sieves to apply, so all is good.

      So I guess I overstated the importance of *my* sieve versus yours. Yours requires less work (MUCH less work) and can eliminate keywords or rescue keywords from elimination. Clearly the oft-advised "of approximately 73bazillion results" approach is complete bunk and you should suspect anyone who is promoting that kind of "research" as a snake oil salesperson.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by Joe118 View Post

        Zeus, is it really true that there's a strong correlation between the number of pages returned by your method and the competitiveness of the top 10? If yes, that would be a very good filter. Is there perchance also a correlation between the number of pages with this method and how profitable the niche is? LOL
        Oh yes, it's true. Not in 100% of the cases, of course, but more often than not for sure. Let's take the example long tail keyword in my video: bark collars for small dogs. If you search that without quotes, you'll see three interesting things about the Top 10 without even really digging in very far:

        1. There's a Web 2.0 property in the #6 position (ehow.com). That's user generated content and it's a great indicator of vulnerability in the Top 10 (usually).

        2. If you look at the other Top 10 properties, they're almost all deep inner pages. I only see one TLD. Another excellent sign that the Top 10 is vulnerable.

        3. No page in the Top 5 has a PR higher than 3. This is not as solid an indicator as it used to be (in my opinion) but still does carry some weight.
        So there are 3 good reasons to believe that keyword can be conquered, and it took all of about 1 minute to determine. Now, to be sure, there is more you can and should do once you get serious about a niche. You need to try to figure out the number and strength of backlinks, for example, and how well optimized the competing pages are in terms of on-page SEO (title tags, h1, content, etc.). But to do this quickly, I've just learned basically all I need to know about the target keyword to move ahead.

        To address your point directly, yes, this pattern holds true most often when you do what I show in the video and then look at the Top 10 results. The correlation is high.

        John
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe118
          Excellent info, John. THANKS!

          Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

          Oh yes, it's true. Not in 100% of the cases, of course, but more often than not for sure. Let's take the example long tail keyword in my video: bark collars for small dogs. If you search that without quotes, you'll see three interesting things about the Top 10 without even really digging in very far:

          1. There's a Web 2.0 property in the #6 position (ehow.com). That's user generated content and it's a great indicator of vulnerability in the Top 10 (usually).

          2. If you look at the other Top 10 properties, they're almost all deep inner pages. I only see one TLD. Another excellent sign that the Top 10 is vulnerable.

          3. No page in the Top 5 has a PR higher than 3. This is not as solid an indicator as it used to be (in my opinion) but still does carry some weight.
          So there are 3 good reasons to believe that keyword can be conquered, and it took all of about 1 minute to determine. Now, to be sure, there is more you can and should do once you get serious about a niche. You need to try to figure out the number and strength of backlinks, for example, and how well optimized the competing pages are in terms of on-page SEO (title tags, h1, content, etc.). But to do this quickly, I've just learned basically all I need to know about the target keyword to move ahead.

          To address your point directly, yes, this pattern holds true most often when you do what I show in the video and then look at the Top 10 results. The correlation is high.

          John
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  • Profile picture of the author Michi Kono
    I don't know who originally discovered this technique but it's brilliant! I'd better go through my potential niche list again! Thanks heaps!
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Moser
    John,

    Great tip! I'm still trying to figure out why clicking page 10 would show a different amount of search results. I guess we'll never know!?

    I also wanted to share another tip I've been using...

    This method will really tell you how much SEO strength the competing sites have for the keyword.

    If you search Google for your keyword phrase without quotes and then add up the page rank of the top 10 listings. If the PR of the top 10 listings add up to less than 30 the keyword is very doable.

    This is very powerful because now you are focusing more on SEO strength rather than competing searching results.

    I have found lots of keywords that have over 1,000,000 search results where the PR of each page listed has less than 10 PR when added up.

    Most of these keywords I would have dismissed because of the high search results but on further inspection using this method I've discovered the real competition is actually extremely low.
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    • Profile picture of the author vicone
      I frequently do something very similar when I'm researching a niche.

      I've tested it with some of the most popular niches on the internet. I've never been able to get beyond page 100.

      I don't know why Google does this but it appears to set a limit of 100 pages to display, possibly thinking that more pages would not contain additional information that was useful.

      Ivan
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      • Profile picture of the author David Neale
        Most likely it's to lessen the page load time both for your benefit and theirs.

        If they allowed you to view 1000 results on a page it would a greater strain on their server.

        And Google has always been about simplicity and fast load times.

        In fact it appears that they will be putting more emphasis (your ranking) in the future on how fast your page loads, they have always considered this but it will be even more important to your ranking going forward.

        Slow, graphically heavy sites beware!

        Originally Posted by vicone View Post

        I frequently do something very similar when I'm researching a niche.

        I've tested it with some of the most popular niches on the internet. I've never been able to get beyond page 100.

        I don't know why Google does this but it appears to set a limit of 100 pages to display, possibly thinking that more pages would not contain additional information that was useful.

        Ivan
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

      John,
      I you search Google for your keyword phrase without quotes and then add up the page rank of the top 10 listings. If the PR of the top 10 listings add up to less than 30 the keyword is very doable.

      This is very powerful because now you are focusing more on SEO strength rather than competing searching results.
      Very interesting idea. May I ask how long you've been doing this? What I'm getting at is whether this method has held up over time, or if maybe you've only done it a couple times and the results could be a fluke.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Moser
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Very interesting idea. May I ask how long you've been doing this? What I'm getting at is whether this method has held up over time, or if maybe you've only done it a couple times and the results could be a fluke.
        I've only been using this method for about 2 months. But it only makes sense (to me anyway) that if the pages being listed in the top 10 have low PR that it would be easy to rank for. No matter how many competing search results there are.

        There's one keyword I found using this method that has over 800k results (without quotes). When I first looked at this keyword I thought NO WAY!

        But then I added up the PR of each page being listed and it totaled 10 PR. So I went for it and built links targeting the keyword and now I'm ranked #1 for a keyword I would have never attempted.

        I don't think it's a fluke because I've checked dozens of other high search results keywords in this way and did back link searches on the top 10 sites using (link: "sitename.com") only to find that some of the sites being listed had little to no back links at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

      If you search Google for your keyword phrase without quotes and then add up the page rank of the top 10 listings. If the PR of the top 10 listings add up to less than 30 the keyword is very doable.
      Another variation I have seen on that is to add the PR of the top ten, divide by ten, and if the average comes out to be 3 or less go for it. Josh Spaulding I believe is the one that started promoting this method if I am not mistaken. Maybe he got it from Court of the Keyword Academy. Don't know.

      Carlos
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

        Another variation I have seen on that is to add the PR of the top ten, divide by ten, and if the average comes out to be 3 or less go for it.
        I'm really not in favor of this, unless someone has done a lot of recent analysis of many random niches/keywords to back it up. PR is so much less predictive of rankings than it used to be. I'm leery of using anything based entirely on PR math to decide whether to go for a keyword or not.
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

          I'm really not in favor of this, unless someone has done a lot of recent analysis of many random niches/keywords to back it up. PR is so much less predictive of rankings than it used to be. I'm leery of using anything based entirely on PR math to decide whether to go for a keyword or not.
          I hear you John. In my own keyword analysis I use the average PR of the top four as one of a number of metrics to give me a feel for my competition. But I certainly don't depend on this like some internet marketers suggest that you do.

          Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Erica Leggette
    This is a very helpful tip. I remember seeing this tip somewhere a little while ago I wanna say it was something that one of these smart marketers out here who I subscribed to their list sent to us subscribers. This is a huge reminder to me of something that could really help with KW research. Thanks for posting this!!
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  • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
    Very nice tip.. Of course with Micro Niche Finder the problem is that I have too many keywords.. lol

    Hard to stay focused!
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod View Post

      Very nice tip.. Of course with Micro Niche Finder the problem is that I have too many keywords.. lol

      Hard to stay focused!
      I know, right! I love MNF. The brainstorm feature has made me some good money. Best software I've bought in a long time. But it can definitely give you too much of the good stuff. I really have to focus, and I have ADD so that's not easy to begin with. My wife "caught" me one night at like 3 am at the computer... I think she expected me to be looking at naughty stuff, but like the geeky dork I am, what was I doing? Yep, checking out MNF for a niche idea that popped into my head as I was drifting off to sleep. LOL I probably need help.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod View Post

        Very nice tip.. Of course with Micro Niche Finder the problem is that I have too many keywords.. lol

        Hard to stay focused!
        Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

        I know, right! I love MNF. The brainstorm feature has made me some good money.
        I like MNF too...when it works. I find I have to open my browser and log in to my Google Webmaster account first or it won't work. Do you guys have to do that too?

        Support hasn't been much help on this issue for me. They'll respond to a trouble ticket once, but then don't follow up when I answer the questions they ask.
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      • Profile picture of the author kevinw1
        Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

        My wife "caught" me one night at like 3 am at the computer... I think she expected me to be looking at naughty stuff, but like the geeky dork I am, what was I doing? Yep, checking out MNF for a niche idea that popped into my head as I was drifting off to sleep. LOL I probably need help.
        LOL, I've done this too. Got up out of a warm bed to go check out a niche I just thought of...
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Gannon
    I knew the first half of the method by playing with Google, didn't know about doing the repeat search thing though. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Muhammad Hassan
      Hope this helps.

      Here's a quicker way to get to the number.

      Type the following web address into your browser
      and go to the page:

      http://www.google.com/#num=100&start=900&filter=0&q="keyword"

      but change the keyword into what you are searching for

      http://www.google.com/#num=100&start=900&filter=0&q="bark collars for small dogs"

      and the number appears at the top.

      num=100 tells Google to put 100 results on each page

      start=900 tells Google to show results starting at 900
      (i.e. 900-1000, or the last page of results - Google only
      shows 1000 results maximum)

      filter=0 tells Google not to filer out any results.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Zeus,

    this is good stuff, BUT not too surprising either.

    The reason is that a simple search and looking at the number of "indexed pages in google" for a phrase/keyword is not really an exact indicator for competition.

    (This also applies if you use a tool like market samurai etc.)

    Therefore it is a way better to search for "allintitle:bark collars for small dogs" to get a better first impression about competition.

    Using Market Samurai, the returned number would be 127,000 for SEOC (which we just saw is not really the right nr.)...and the returned number for SEOCT (pages with phrase in title) is only 174.

    This is why i also started basically to ignore SEOC/competing pages in Google. You can have 10 zillion pages which "somehow" are indexed for a phrase...but only very few with the phrase in title..making it a (potentially) good keyword nevertheless.

    (Of course there is still more to it, eg. examining competition strength like PR and domain age of the curren top sites in Google)
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Therefore it is a way better to search for "allintitle:bark collars for small dogs" to get a better first impression about competition.
      I still consider myself a newbie at this stuff but I did some thinking about the allintitle thingy and it just doesn't seem to be any good at all.

      I mean there are tons of niches where the allintitle modifier does not pull up more than about 40-50% of the top ten that are your true competitors. That means you are missing a whole lot of the competitors, true competitors, that show up on the first page using the allintitle approach.

      We're talking about a quick gauge of competitors mind you and certainly not an in depth analysis.

      Carlos
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      • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
        Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

        I still consider myself a newbie at this stuff but I did some thinking about the allintitle thingy and it just doesn't seem to be any good at all.

        I mean there are tons of niches where the allintitle modifier does not pull up more than about 40-50% of the top ten that are your true competitors. That means you are missing a whole lot of the competitors, true competitors, that show up on the first page using the allintitle approach.

        We're talking about a quick gauge of competitors mind you and certainly not an in depth analysis.

        Carlos
        Keyword research is about getting an idea about competition and then (if possible) to outrank this competition using on-site SEo techniques and off-site SEO, like backlinks.

        Yo have a point! allintitle: is not the "ultimate" indicator...for example wikipedia and whatever other "authority site" could very well rank for keyword WITHOUT the phrase/KW in title.

        But its still better than simply looking at indexed pages, IMHO.

        There is a chance that you can outrank those sites because YOU will do proper on-site SEO, YOU will have it in title and will optimize your site.

        The number of sites which come up without having the KW in title have a disadvantage because they are not SEOed for that keyword. Thats how i see it.

        But, as said, there is still more to it. It will still be hard to outrank eg. wikipedia and other authority sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author VaultBoss
      Originally Posted by Cornerstone View Post

      Thanks for the video and the tip
      Looks like a good way to get a general overview of the market. Also would be a perfect candidate for a script to handle all the grunt work.

      From there a manual look at the results should do the trick
      There are a few software titles already, like Traffic Travis, Market Samurai, WebCEO, etc... to do this...
      I personally use MS and WebCEO.

      MS is a paid product (with a free trial), while WebCEO has both free and paid versions too.

      You may try WebCEO for free if you want on this link.
      Or you may find more about Traffic Travis too on the blog post I've written here: Free SEO Software Tools

      As for the results they give you...

      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      [...]
      (This also applies if you use a tool like market samurai etc.)

      Therefore it is a way better to search for "allintitle:bark collars for small dogs" to get a better first impression about competition.

      Using Market Samurai, the returned number would be 127,000 for SEOC (which we just saw is not really the right nr.)...and the returned number for SEOCT (pages with phrase in title) is only 174.[...]
      I was doing the same kind of research before I bought MS about 12 month ago...

      I was only using it with search results per page setup as 100 in my preferences at that time.

      But since then, I have been always using MS for that kind of thing - being much easier to compare the same kind of results between the various long tail KeyPhrases back to back, so to speak (lol, write?)

      I was curious and just ran the search through it again for the given KW: bark collar
      ... and of course, there were many interesting ones to spot as KP there, including
      bark collars for small dogs

      My results were similar, only that I've got 126.000 SEOC returned.

      Here is a nice finding...

      gentle spray bark collar shows 177 SEOTC out of 215.000 SEOC results...
      while
      gentle spray anti bark collar shows 132 SEOTC out of 800 SEOC results... which is similar to what Google search shows for such a quoted search phrase (801 on my session today) with all results added...

      BUT, if you drill down to the last result, that will be on page 52 (10 results per page) or exactly 512 pages shown, totally.

      However, in this case, many websites have double listings, so it would be ok to say with pretty much confidence that you compete with even less pages (no matter how strong or weak that competition is actually) probably a bit more than half.

      If you run the search w/o quotes, obiously google reports more (like 10.300 initially, then 10.200 up to the last page exclusively) but in fact it stops on the #64 page totalling 637 results.

      How about THAT!

      As we can see, neither MS nor GS (Google search where MS gathers the data from) are accurate enough for telling you the exact numbers.

      But would it be so important, especially on a long KP as here?

      I guess not, the really important things would be to look at the first pages (1-2 max) of results and assess the easiness of outranking those websites, one by one.

      Steve Lorenzo SEOVirtuoso
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  • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
    Zeus, I'll have to say, you've done it again. Your posts are truly informative. Thank you for such a great post.

    Too bad this forum doesn't have the option to "follow" someone; you'd be a great person to follow.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      Zeus, I'll have to say, you've done it again. Your posts are truly informative. Thank you for such a great post.

      Too bad this forum doesn't have the option to "follow" someone; you'd be a great person to follow.
      Angela, trust me when I tell you this... I owe you SO much more than you'll ever owe me when it comes to providing something that helps people. I'm glad you saw this thread and got something out of it. Maybe if I do about 100 more like it, you and I will be close to even. Your backlinks and general knowledge of that end of SEO helped me so much in 2009 I can scarcely do it justice with my words here. And I mean that sincerely.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      Zeus, I'll have to say, you've done it again. Your posts are truly informative. Thank you for such a great post.

      Too bad this forum doesn't have the option to "follow" someone; you'd be a great person to follow.
      You probably know this already Angela, but in case you've forgotten, you can click John's name and select "Find all threads by Zues66" and browse the threads he's started. It's almost as good as being able to follow.
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      • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        You probably know this already Angela, but in case you've forgotten, you can click John's name and select "Find all threads by Zues66" and browse the threads he's started. It's almost as good as being able to follow.
        Thank you, Dennis. I guess I used to know that, but haven't even thought about it in a while, but it is a VERY good suggestion.
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  • Profile picture of the author CMCarlin
    Great find, thanks for the post.

    I did this for a 4 word keyword search. It returned about 1.5 MILLION results in quotations.

    I got all the way to page 38 and the results changed to 376. At the end it showed a link to show 'similar results', which then gave me 1.5 million results again. I once again went to page 38 and then beyond and looked at the results. Most of the results were of the same site, but the phrase was from a standard footer at the bottom of the page which leads me to believe that 376 is really the correct number.

    ---------------------------------------------

    Sort of off subject:

    One thing that I noticed too with this 4 word keyword. If I type in the phrase match (quotations) I get 1.5 million. If I type in the normal (broad) search, I get 180,00. If I type in the [exact] search, I get 180,00 which leads me to believe that google takes this 4 word search and automatically gives me exact search results. Has anyone noticed this before???

    Also, for the above phrase, the top 10 returns some blogs, amazon and shopping pages. With this little bit of info, would you go for it? Or what else would you look into?
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  • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
    Thank you so much for your kind words, Zeus. And thank you again for another great post. I've taken to bookmarking your posts, recently, they're so helpful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    You just totally revolutionized the way I'll do my research. That's amazing man. Thanks a ton for this tip
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
    granted I knew this, I havn't used it in a while because I can tell if I can rank for a word just by looking at the other sites, PR, amount of sites, links to the pages and tons of other analysis I do to see if its viable.

    I did it for a niche I was preparing to target just now as a tester and found gold mine long-tail keywords with loads of views and little competition, below 400.

    Thanks for jogging the brain!

    Jay.
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    I've seen this happen when looking at backlinks in google or pages indexed, but never thought to check for keyword competition.

    Very eye-opening indeed!

    I also understand and agree that you need to look at the competition on page one regardless but still, this is a pretty cool tip.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author jacktb
    This is the first time I heard of this trick. I'll surely try to apply this in my next keyword analysis. And will post here if it proved to be effective.

    Thanks, Zeus66.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
    It depends, you could target keywords with 100 k, 200 k, 300 k and so on..

    People target below 50 k because its easier work.

    You could rank for better keywords, more work and building has to be done. It needs a more complex link building structure and strategy. That's why targeting loads of long-tail keywords with an easy planned out link building procedure is the preferred method.

    Because it takes longer to rank for those keywords.

    That's not to say that you shouldn't try to slowly climb the ranks for those harder keywords on the side, whilst you build up and empire of long tail keywords.

    Because when you do finally hit those top pages, its going to benefit you a ton.

    Jay.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Jason Perez O'Connor View Post

      It depends, you could target keywords with 100 k, 200 k, 300 k and so on..

      People target below 50 k because its easier work.

      You could rank for better keywords, more work and building has to be done. It needs a more complex link building structure and strategy. That's why targeting loads of long-tail keywords with an easy planned out link building procedure is the preferred method.

      Because it takes longer to rank for those keywords.

      That's not to say that you shouldn't try to slowly climb the ranks for those harder keywords on the side, whilst you build up and empire of long tail keywords.

      Because when you do finally hit those top pages, its going to benefit you a ton.

      Jay.
      Yes, I think Jay's correct here. The whole point behind the advice you see everywhere to target keywords with less than 100,000 or 50,000 (or whatever) when searched inside quotes is to find keywords that have low competition, so you can rank for them faster. The idea is sound, especially for those who cannot wait a long time and spend a lot of hours or money doing the link building and site building that would be required to rank for a more competitive keyword. The payoff for such rankings is obviously worth it in a lot of instances, but I'll tell you something a lot of people new to this don't understand very well. Sometimes you do better with a lot less traffic if that traffic is coming in from a keyword that is highly targeted but gets fewer searches vs. a less targeted keyword that gets a lot of searches. The notion that it's all about traffic is wrong in that sense. It's more about the targeting of that traffic than simply the number of people coming to your site.

      Which leads me to the reason I think long tail keywords are so much better for building a long-term business like this. Actually, there are 2 good reasons for that:

      1. Better targeting. Long tails reduce the poor targeting possibilities. The logic here is that someone putting in longer search strings is looking for something more specific. Not always true, but generally it is. So you get "better" traffic to your site, even if it's fewer people.

      2. Less risky. We all know how Google dances and SERPs change literally overnight sometimes. When you rely too much on traffic from one or two big keywords, your business is always just one Google change away from being devastated. Ask anyone this has happened to and they'll all tell you they switched to a more diverse long tail strategy. I did after it happened to me once. I'd rather get 100 visitors/day from 10 long tail keywords than 200/day from one big keyword. I'm not going to lose ranking position overnight on all 10, but I sure might on that one big keyword.
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      • Profile picture of the author BelindaMooney
        I have a SEO question. When looking at those top 10 competing sites how do you discover their "SEO" savyness (Is that a word lol) - Do you look at their keywords in the page source, etc?

        I was researching a niche I am interested in and the competition seems pretty tough in the top 10 but very few of them have the actual kw phrase in their title or in their KW's?

        Just wondering if I am missing something LOL

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        • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
          Originally Posted by BelindaMooney View Post

          I have a SEO question. When looking at those top 10 competing sites how do you discover their "SEO" savyness (Is that a word lol) - Do you look at their keywords in the page source, etc?

          I was researching a niche I am interested in and the competition seems pretty tough in the top 10 but very few of them have the actual kw phrase in their title or in their KW's?

          Just wondering if I am missing something LOL

          Belinda
          No, you're not missing anything essential here. When you get to the point of thinking that a keyword has potential and it's time to dig into the Top 10 or 20 to analyze their SEO worthiness, in broad terms you need to know the strength of their on-page and off-page SEO. Off-page is basically links. Not just how many, but the quality. On-page deals with what you mentioned, as well as things like domain age. George earlier mentioned doing the intitle:"keyword phrase" search at Google, and it's a good idea. It will tell you how many competing pages there are at Google with the exact phrase in question in the title of their page. Less is better, of course. I'll also look at the individual pages in the Top 10 (sometimes Top 20) to see how many have the target phrase in their meta description tag, <h1> tag, in the body of the page's content, and as anchor text in their internal linking structure (links to and from pages within that site).

          Now, this can seem like a lot of work, but it really isn't. Let me plug a great free tool here for this phase of your research: Traffic Travis

          It will show you on one screen a lot of the SEO elements for the Top 20 results for any keyword search. I'll usually pull that software up and do a quick scan. If I see that most of the Top 10 are heavily optimized for the keyword, sometimes I'll stop there and go no farther. Just move on to the next keyword. It depends on how much search volume it gets and how badly I want that traffic.

          John
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    John, that's a great video! Nicely done bud.

    There are a lot of ways to view competition. Like you mentioned, if there are a lot of high authority pages listed in the top ten results, even if the overall competition is fairly low--you would have your work cut out for getting into the top half-dozen results or so.

    Another thing to think about is that even if the top ten results for your search term are kind of weak, (not high PR or .gov, .edu type sites) you really need to look at the domains that are listed.

    Suppose using your method you come up with only 100 actual competing sites and the traffic volume for your chosen keyword is acceptable, the other consideration is the domain thing. Suppose you wanted to write an article and submit to EZA and get a top ranking to get some traffic.

    For any keyword phrase you search for, Google is only going to show two listings from any top-level domain. This means, in our EZA example, that even if there were 50 articles at EZA targeting your keyword phrase, Google will return a max of two of these for any particular search. (There may be more that come up if you hit the link saying "Some search results have been omitted because they were similar to those returned, click here to see all the results--or whatever the exact wording is).

    But in this example suppose there was already a page from EZA listed at the #2 and #12 position in Google. Now, if as I said, there were only 100 real pages returned--your "real" competition consists of those two EZAs already listed. If you can beat out one of them in Google's eyes--your page won't show in the listings. If you feel that those two EZA are strong in terms of SEO you are much better off submitting the article to another directory.

    The same would be true of Squidoo lenses, Blogger blogs, HubPages--Scribd, DocStoc, WetPaint, Quizilla, WordPress.com and similar pages. So yes--I love your idea (technique) but even when there is little competition, it is important to see what domains that competition is coming from. If there are already two pages showing in Google for your keyword phrase from one of these domains--your "real" competition is those two pages--you must beat one of them out to get into the listings.

    The way to circumvent this "two listings per top-level domain" is to host a WP blog on your own domain. This makes it easier to get listed, but of course you wouldn't have the EZA, Squidoo, Blogger authority working for you.

    Still, your video is great and very, very well done!!! --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author KatyaSenina
    weird...now i have to do keyword research all over again
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    • Profile picture of the author Cornerstone
      Thanks for the video and the tip
      Looks like a good way to get a general overview of the market. Also would be a perfect candidate for a script to handle all the grunt work.

      From there a manual look at the results should do the trick
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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
    As I understand it, the reason this happens is because of semantics and relevance.

    Semantics comes into it because Google don't always say things in the clearest terms. In this case, when they say that a search term has returned '115,000 results' they seem to be implying that they actually rank that number of pages. But in fact, as this exercise shows, that isn't the case. What they are really saying is that they have that number of pages (that vaguely match the search criteria) in their database.

    Google's aim hjas always been to return the most relevant results, so it appear that they filter their own database (using an algorythm we don't fully understand) to return the best of that database - in other words, the much lower actual number of results we see.

    Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author UBotBuddy
    I tried it using my phrases and I did not get any reduction in numbers so maybe it could be that my niche is stable in the numbers.

    But I will keep this technique for future attempts.

    Thanks for sharing.
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    • Profile picture of the author KatyaSenina
      Originally Posted by SiteBlaster View Post

      I tried it using my phrases and I did not get any reduction in numbers so maybe it could be that my niche is stable in the numbers.

      But I will keep this technique for future attempts.

      Thanks for sharing.
      yeah same here tried a few keywords, no changes

      but in the video he said it doesn't always change
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    John McCabe, I'm like you I will drill down more than 2 or 3 pages, some of the times depending on what I'm looking for.

    John (zesus) you have confirmed something I also learned a short while back, I'm currently using that little function to increase the value for my clients. I also happen to know someone who is very good at keyword research, that has added another income stream to his business using this very tactic. And setting up an affiliate program to even make more money with it.

    John I do want to say a real thank you for bringing this up and the good video. Frankly I think it may be your bald head that makes the ladies want to send you cookies. :p

    Ken Leatherman

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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    @Zeus
    I probably need help.
    Probably? LOL

    This is, by far, the most intelligent and informative real-world keyword research thread I've seen. I'm going to go blast my lists right now and tell them they need to come and read it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sara Young
    I haven't read all the replies in this thread, so I apologize if someone said this already.

    But just in case no-one did:

    When doing keyword research always set your search settings to 100

    That will take care of that issue...
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Sara Young View Post

      I haven't read all the replies in this thread, so I apologize if someone said this already.

      But just in case no-one did:

      When doing keyword research always set your search settings to 100

      That will take care of that issue...
      That's a good tip to go along with this. Do a Google search, then in the upper right look for the Search Settings link. Then just change the number of results per page to 100 and save it. Now search again inside quotes and you'll get a much lower number (usually) that will show you the real competition level. Thanks, Sara!
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      • Profile picture of the author KatyaSenina
        Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

        That's a good tip to go along with this. Do a Google search, then in the upper right look for the Search Settings link. Then just change the number of results per page to 100 and save it. Now search again inside quotes and you'll get a much lower number (usually) that will show you the real competition level. Thanks, Sara!
        How do you know this is accurate or in other words THE REAL NUMBER?
        It's kinda confusing...like everything 'the gurus' taught before is suddenly wrong
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  • Profile picture of the author tools951
    Thanks for the keyword research lesson! Google is handy tool to use.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Good tip, I had noticed that Google was that way. Found it just in day to day searches. However... it goes even deeper than than. If I can beat one of the top 5 no matter what the real competition is, then the number is irrelevant.

    ALSO, if the top results are all research oreinted, these are the searches where more than the average 12% of searchers will hit page 2. Many times there is no real competition for those in the product area because most affiliates have moved on and hitting the 1st spot on page 2 AND being the 1st product (other than paid ads) the searcher sees, their frustration level is many times enough of a push that they stop the shop there.
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    • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      ALSO, if the top results are all research oreinted, these are the searches where more than the average 12% of searchers will hit page 2. Many times there is no real competition for those in the product area because most affiliates have moved on and hitting the 1st spot on page 2 AND being the 1st product (other than paid ads) the searcher sees, their frustration level is many times enough of a push that they stop the shop there.
      Most folk have default Google 10 results per page. I also find being top of page 2 is better than being on page 1 in the lower half. From my experience if the first results surfers see on page 1 are not particularly relevant they click to page 2 rather than scroll down page 1.
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      • Profile picture of the author VaultBoss
        Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

        Most folk have default Google 10 results per page. I also find being top of page 2 is better than being on page 1 in the lower half. From my experience if the first results surfers see on page 1 are not particularly relevant they click to page 2 rather than scroll down page 1.
        Excellent point you've made...and it makes lots of sense, certainly, up to some level and for certain things.

        It is not exactly the same, but similar to the better results you'd get on AdWords if you will bid to target the #3 spot and NOT the #1 spot...
        That's just human nature, he, he... we praise the winners, but we secretly hope the challengers will win?

        Now, I feel I should add something here. As with anything else SEO related, there is no such an absolute answer, rather a highest chance to be true answer. And of course, all comes from us not knowing the exact Google algorithms (plus that they change those from time to time) so that we can only observe and guess.

        For instance, almost everybody teaches one should research to find if it is possible to rank #1, because that is where the gold is.

        But I found a very useful other tactic... Just find the few interesting long tail KeyPhrases that people DO search for and do not worry so much for the competition on them, but rather on the number of searches.

        You see, if the KP is long tailed enough (4 KW+) there will be very few webmasters to optimize for that one anyway. Almost no one will buy a 4-5 KW rich domain name, not to think about 10 competitors doing so... all in all, maybe some blog posts and some articles having that as a post title...

        You stand a very good chance to rank high for that particular KP... but do not stop here. Think outside the box.
        If you're gonna write a blog post or article with that title, do not stuff it with that KP but instead use it sparingly and rather add LSI-worth other (even shorter KP's) inside the text.

        After indexing your content, especially on a website you own and build (like self hosted WP blog < recommended) SE's will soon rank you very high for many, many other KP you have not even thought of.

        Study THOSE - if they are not crazy long, write and optimize content for that stuff (in fact you already rank well for it, without trying!) and soon you will have enough content to dominate a few related long KP's...
        Then magic will happen.

        You will get far better rankings for other shorter KP's as well.

        You see, we are sometimes carried away by trying to technically write stuff for quick indexing and getting high SERP's for 'making money' reasons < whatever they are, when in fact Google is all about relevancy.

        My advice is to forget about using SEO for quick rewards, but rather for building a very solid business on the medium & long term.
        For quick results, better use paid (ads) traffic or reciprocal traffic (JV's, promo's, etc..) - but this is good subject for another posting...

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  • Profile picture of the author webdesk
    yeah, I've experienced this... it's the little tips from what we don't always notice that seem to matter, thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    Holy crap!

    I am stunned! Wow!
    I can't even post a sufficient comment.

    I am just going to post more amazement below!

    WOW!OMG! ROFL!

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  • Profile picture of the author barryleed
    Thanks for the hot tip. The info. is awesome!
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  • Profile picture of the author yommys01
    wow, that is a wonderful video. It is really an eye open for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
    Hmmmm. I just tried this with a couple of my LT keywords and I didnt get past stage 1. In other words I clicked on page 10, and it didnt give an option to include omitted results just put more page choices at the bottom and the figure stayed the same.

    So I guess it will work with some and not others. Google knows why!
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  • Profile picture of the author markshields
    Awesome! Maybe it something that google have to do with. But it is very interesting that from hundred thousand you can get a 100 competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author Whatl
    I love picking up little tips here and there, but this is definitely one of the best in a long time! I had no idea about this. Cheers mate!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Maggs
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
      Originally Posted by moonfish View Post

      I learned this technique sometime last year and built it into some software I developed. I've knocked up a freebie for you warriors which will enable you to run an Adwords tool query, quotes, intitle, allintitle and actual search which will pull up the last page automatically for you on Google.



      You can download the software from the following location:

      http://www.moonfish-design.co.uk/war...gle-search.exe

      Hope you find the tool useful

      Rob
      Rob, thank you thank you thank you! Now, having said that, I could smack ya for not turning that little gem of software into a WSO...
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    • Profile picture of the author allbeeg
      Originally Posted by moonfish View Post

      I learned this technique sometime last year and built it into some software I developed. I've knocked up a freebie for you warriors which will enable you to run an Adwords tool query, quotes, intitle, allintitle and actual search which will pull up the last page automatically for you on Google.



      You can download the software from the following location:

      http://www.moonfish-design.co.uk/war...gle-search.exe

      Hope you find the tool useful

      Rob
      Moonfish,

      Thanks for the awesome tool!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Hey Rob,

    Wow, that's fantastic man! Thank you so much for posting it in this thread! That's gonna save us a lot of time. May I send a link to that to my email list subscribers? You can PM me with any promotional info you might want to include.

    Thanks!
    John
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  • Profile picture of the author samcarson
    John and Rob thanks a lot for the excellent info and gift.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author cowsgonemadd3
    Thanks a lot for sharing this!
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Nice video but you kids should check out the SEO forum more often, this is kinda old news now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      Nice video but you kids should check out the SEO forum more often, this is kinda old news now.
      Parade rainer. :p

      Where you been hiding man?
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  • Profile picture of the author allbeeg
    John,

    Thanks for the great video! I already have found some great keywords tongiht.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Just saying... we need love too... even if we are buried in the middle of WF and have to share space with the adsense people :p

    but it's a good video none the less.
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    I'm all about that bass.

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  • Profile picture of the author bencarroll02
    wow, thanks alot man!

    that is a really cool feature and it is very funny that google covers that up whether it be intentional or a bug.

    Google knows its stuff pretty well (understatement) I would really like to know why this is how it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raygun
    Whenever I see anything from John, I always pay attention. He flat out knows what he is talking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Raygun View Post

      Whenever I see anything from John, I always pay attention. He flat out knows what he is talking about.
      Convince my wife of that and I'll write you a blank check, my friend!
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