Screw the Economy!

by Ray Edwards 89 replies
Hey gang,

I realize I'm probably "preaching to the choir" with this post, but...

If you're worrying about the economy... don't.

We're marketers. We are the economy.

Case in point: I just finished up a launch for a client where we did $1.2 million in seven days.

My client's business is not in the IM world... it's in real estate. In the middle of our launch, guess what happened? The largest bank failure in US history. Cause of said bank failure? Bad real estate loans.

Now, most people would have freaked out. Our launch certainly came grinding to a halt.

Then we gave it some thought and decided, "What's the real story here? Isn't this a great time to invest in properties -- when prices are plummeting? When you can, as the saying goes, 'buy low'? Of course it is!"

So we just fired up the email marketing machine and kept going... and we crushed it.

In fact, over half our sales came after the bank crashes!

For me, the moral of the story is: as a marketer, you've got the power to create your own economy. Just pay attention to what's going on in your market, respond in a way that helps them and supports your cause at the same time... and the rewards will come.

Now let's go keep the wheels of commerce turning, shall we?

;-)
#main internet marketing discussion forum #attitude #copywriting #economy #launch #screw
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Originally Posted by radioray View Post

    Hey gang,

    I realize I'm probably "preaching to the choir" with this post, but...

    If you're worrying about the economy... don't.

    We're marketers. We are the economy.

    Case in point: I just finished up a launch for a client where we did $1.2 million in seven days.

    My client's business is not in the IM world... it's in real estate. In the middle of our launch, guess what happened? The largest bank failure in US history. Cause of said bank failure? Bad real estate loans.

    Now, most people would have freaked out. Our launch certainly came grinding to a halt.

    Then we gave it some thought and decided, "What's the real story here? Isn't this a great time to invest in properties -- when prices are plummeting? When you can, as the saying goes, 'buy low'? Of course it is!"

    So we just fired up the email marketing machine and kept going... and we crushed it.

    In fact, over half our sales came after the bank crashes!

    For me, the moral of the story is: as a marketer, you've got the power to create your own economy. Just pay attention to what's going on in your market, respond in a way that helps them and supports your cause at the same time... and the rewards will come.

    Now let's go keep the wheels of commerce turning, shall we?

    ;-)

    Yeeeeeeaaaaaahhhh baby...

    It's on like Donkey Kong...

    I said similar to my list yesterday... and on my blog..

    Two fingers to the economy... if it's tryin to push our back against the wall... then we knock down the damn wall folks...

    Peace

    Jay

    p.s. Abundance rocks..
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    • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      Yeeeeeeaaaaaahhhh baby...

      It's on like Donkey Kong...

      I said similar to my list yesterday... and on my blog..

      Two fingers to the economy... if it's tryin to push our back against the wall... then we knock down the damn wall folks...

      Peace

      Jay

      p.s. Abundance rocks..
      Now thats my kind of fellow businessman. if more poeple had an attitude like this, the world would be a much better place. couldnt have said it better myself brother...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy123
      That's fine and dandy for now, but the US dollar is going to
      be worth nothing eventually, protect yourself and buy other currencies,
      or try and do business in another currency.

      This crisis is simple: the US has borrowed too much money
      from other countries and spent it, and now they can't pay it back.

      The FED keeps printing more and more money to give the illusion
      that they are helping, but all they are doing is devaluing the dollar.

      America is broke, America is all based on debt.

      Hyperinflation.

      Interviews with Peter Schiff about the economy.

      http://www.europac.net/video.asp
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      • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
        In my experience, we tend to get what we focus on.
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        • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
          Certainly, let's make lemonade out of lemons. I'm all for that.

          As marketers, we are the engine of the economy. We're least resistant to recessions.

          On the other hand, let's not be so blinded to ignore what's really happening.

          I believe we are witnessing the collapse of the Babylonian economic system.

          Dollars may very well become worthless.

          Can you say "Amero"? :-)

          I think of my perspective as realistic optimism. I'm optimistic that things will work out... and that I can bring value to businesses even during a recession like this.

          So individually speaking, I'm not worried.

          But there are plenty of people who are struggling. The recession IS happening. Banks ARE failing. The money supply IS growing (inflation = less purchasing power).

          Now...

          If you study what happened to the Weimar Republic... or what's happened recently in Zimbabwe... then you'll know that hyperinflation is a real problem.

          In Zimbabwe: "Inflation rose from an annual rate of 32% in 1998 to an official estimated high of 11,200,000% in July 2008 according to the country's Central Statistical Office,[65] a state of hyperinflation, and the central bank introduced a new 100 billion dollar note." [source: Wikipedia]

          Hyperinflation is almost inevitable when a society is built on fiat currency.

          To prove the point, here is a picture of a German woman burning money in her stove because it was cheaper than firewood:

          Image:Inflation-1923.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          Let's not kid ourselves. Even if we are the engine of society, that won't help us if there is a complete economic collapse in the U.S.

          At that point, gardening would be a more practical skill than marketing or copywriting.

          Ryan Healy
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          • Profile picture of the author Sami
            Heeeeey Mr Edwards

            It is good to see you here. I hope you're well.

            It's you ol'pal "Sami from the UK".


            Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post


            I believe we are witnessing the collapse of the Babylonian economic system.
            Ryan ... no way my friend. This is another (hard) lesson for the inexorable rise of modern society, no more, no less.

            If you want to take a historical perspective, then observe the entire span and not just the Babylon.

            Humanity's progress has never been a stright upward slope. Just like stocks or property it is a zig-zag ... for every few steps forward we take one or two back, learn some hard lessons, dust ourselves down, put precations in place for hte future and firmly march forward.


            Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

            Dollars may very well become worthless.
            Again that will never happen not in the next hundred years or more until there the US becimes so complacent that it totally decays from within AND there is a credible (non-decaying) alternative for people to turn to.

            And that won't happen ... some of the best and brightest human beings live in the US and/or work the US.

            Fear not, just do your bit and make YOUR contirbution to progress and don't fall for those who are responsible for the next big setback. And we'll get there.

            Sami
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            • Profile picture of the author bensettle
              Originally Posted by Sami View Post

              some of the best and brightest human beings live in the US and/or work the US.

              Sami
              That very well may be true... but you won't find them working for the government.

              If dollars were actually worth anything anymore, I'd bet you $100 there will be something like an Amero in the future.

              Our dollar can only be debased so much and it doesn't look like we're getting back on the gold standard anytime soon...

              Ben
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            • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
              Originally Posted by Sami View Post

              Again that will never happen not in the next hundred years or more
              Sami - I appreciate your courage and optimism.

              Let me ask you:

              How long will God permit our government to use unequal weights and measures?

              "You shall not have in your house differing measures, a large and a small. You shall have a full and just weight; you shall have a full and just measure, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you." Deuteronomy 25:14,15

              "Differing weights and differing measures, both of them are abominable to the LORD." Proverbs 20:10

              Nations who depend on fiat currency don't have a good track record. Empires in general don't have a good track record. God eventually brings every empire to its knees.

              Bablyon - Medo Persia - Greece - Rome - England - "Mystery Babylon" (U.S.?)

              The U.S. currently uses a system of fiat currency combined with fractional reserve banking.

              Your bank may have only 5-10% in REAL dollar bills compared to total deposits.

              If the bank has $10 Million in deposits, they may have only $1 Million in cash. If everybody wanted to convert their accounts into cash, the banks would collapse.

              Oh, wait.

              That just happened a week ago to Washington Mutual -- the largest bank failure in history.

              People started a run on the bank. After about 10 days, the bank went belly up. They simply couldn't fulfill the cash withdrawals.

              Run on Bank Helped Kill WaMu But Your Money Is Safe: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

              From the Article: 'Simply put, WaMu was victimized by a classic "run on the bank." Customers withdrew $16.7 billion in a 10-day period following the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, leaving WaMu "with insufficient liquidity to meet its obligations," its regulators determined.'

              Insufficient liquidity = no cash.

              Here's a bank that survived The Great Depression... but could not survive today. How many more banks will fail? How soon?

              Has the U.S. empire finally reached the end of the line?

              Ray says: "But that doesn't make you correct."

              You're correct, Ray. I've been wrong before, and I will be wrong again.

              Each person must examine the facts and come to their own conclusions. And given the same facts, we will all come to different conclusions! :-)

              Ryan

              P.S. If you'd like to learn about various forms of currency, here is a good article:

              Idaho Observer: Money? It's not what you think it is.
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            • Profile picture of the author petebolduc
              Originally Posted by Sami View Post

              Ryan ... no way my friend. This is another (hard) lesson for the inexorable rise of modern society, no more, no less....


              ...Again that will never happen not in the next hundred years or more until there the US becimes so complacent that it totally decays from within AND there is a credible (non-decaying) alternative for people to turn to.

              And that won't happen ... some of the best and brightest human beings live in the US and/or work the US.

              Take it for what it is worth...

              Just because we desire a certain things does not mean it is going to happen the way we want.

              This economic crash is a serious thing. Congress is scrambling to put a band aid on serious injury. Greed is the cause of this and the band aid will be air marked with greed. A lot of already wealthy people will get even more rich from the band aid and the little guy will ultimately pay the price.

              Internet marketers may fair well through it but it is those who are marketing true opportunity built on solid foundations that will prosper the most.

              A personal recent study showed that on the average 1.2 million people a month are querying for home-based internet opportunity. If you have a quality opportunity product that really earns people income and not some rehashed material built on old philosophy you should do well, if not, find one to market or you'll fall by the wayside.


              pete
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
            Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

            But there are plenty of people who are struggling. The recession IS happening. Banks ARE failing. The money supply IS growing (inflation = less purchasing power).

            Hyperinflation is almost inevitable when a society is built on fiat currency.
            You lost me when you mention recession, since we are NOT in one now.

            Can you name some countries that do not use fiat currency?
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            • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
              Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

              You lost me when you mention recession, since we are NOT in one now.
              Depends on how you define "recession." Most sources define a recession as a general decline in economic activity, which is fairly subjective.

              Home sales are down... unemployment numbers are up... automobile sales are lagging.

              Seems to me there is a general decline in economic activity.

              The government definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters in which the GNP declines.

              So far, this has not happened in 2008. At least if you believe government numbers to be fully accurate.

              By the government's definition, we are not technically in a recession.

              Of course, if we weren't in a recession, why would the government be scrambling to throw $700 billion at the economy. To make a strong economy even better?

              Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

              Can you name some countries that do not use fiat currency?
              No, I can't name one.

              A quick Google search seems to indicate most (all?) sovereign nations use fiat currency. Although I'm sure there are some isolated places that still use commodity money or barter as a means of exchange.

              Also, just because most countries issue fiat currency doesn't make it right.

              Ryan Healy
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

                Depends on how you define "recession." Most sources define a recession as a general decline in economic activity, which is fairly subjective.
                I use the actual definition, rather than making up my own as some people do. I suggest finding more accurate sources, especially if you expect people to pay attention to you on the subject of economics.

                A recession is 2 or more consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. The US is not at that point. The 2nd quarter grew above 3% and numbers for the 3rd are not out yet.

                "Recession" comes from "recede" which means to get smaller, i.e. the economy shrinks.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

                  I use the actual definition,...
                  A recession is 2 or more consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. The US is not at that point. The 2nd quarter grew above 3% and numbers for the 3rd are not out yet.
                  Actual definition? According to who?

                  The National Bureau's Business Cycle Dating Committee maintains a chronology of the U.S. business cycle. The chronology identifies the dates of peaks and troughs that frame economic recession or expansion. The period from a peak to a trough is a recession and the period from a trough to a peak is an expansion. According to the chronology, the most recent peak occurred in March 2001, ending a record-long expansion that began in 1991. The most recent trough occurred in November 2001, inaugurating an expansion.

                  A recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. A recession begins just after the economy reaches a peak of activity and ends as the economy reaches its trough. Between trough and peak, the economy is in an expansion. Expansion is the normal state of the economy; most recessions are brief and they have been rare in recent decades.
                  Q: The financial press often states the definition of a recession as two consecutive quarters of decline in real GDP. How does that relate to the NBER's recession dating procedure?

                  A: Most of the recessions identified by our procedures do consist of two or more quarters of declining real GDP, but not all of them. The most recent recession in our chronology was in 2001. According to data as of July 2008, the 2001 recession involved declines in the first and third quarters of 2001 but not in two consecutive quarters. Our procedure differs from the two-quarter rule in a number of ways. First, we consider the depth as well as the duration of the decline in economic activity. Recall that our definition includes the phrase, "a significant decline in economic activity." Second, we use a broader array of indicators than just real GDP. One reason for this is that the GDP data are subject to considerable revision. Third, we use monthly indicators to arrive at a monthly chronology.
                  The NBER’s Recession Dating Procedure

                  Just as there is an agency to define the measure of inflation; the official agency in charge of declaring that the economy is in a state of recession is the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER).
                  Recession Definition | RECESSION.ORG

                  Two consecutive quarters of decline in real GDP is commonly taken to be a recession. The National Bureau of Economic Research, a private organization, effectively decides when recessions occur, however...
                  Definition of Recession

                  In US, a recession is said to occurs, whenever the National Bureau of Economic Research NBER says so.
                  Economics Essays: Definition of Recession

                  I think Ryan was correct in saying it depends "on how you define "recession." Most sources define a recession as a general decline in economic activity, which is fairly subjective."

                  Many times when people quote the two quarters rule they also include the word "usually" or "typically" because it is typical to have two quarters of negative growth in a recession but there have been two recessions that didn't have this according to NBER.
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                  • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
                    @TimPhelan - Excellent response. Couldn't have said it better myself. :-)
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                    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                      I'm all about abundance and controlling your own destiny, too. But to say "screw the economy" is rather ignorant. Because no matter how hard you work, if your currency goes void it doesn't matter.

                      People really should pay attention to the situation. Not saying to act like chicken little. But pay attention and make your voice heard if need be. We the people...remember?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy123
                        don't put all your eggs into the US dollar...

                        Fool Video: The Next Shoe to Drop?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
                          Wow.

                          I go away for a day or two and look what happens.

                          Nice discussion.

                          Basically, for me it seems to come down to two basic groups:

                          The "I Just Like To Talk About It Group". These folks love to endlessly debate the issues, and keep piling up more and more evidence and ever-more-tightly reasoned arguments about why we're all screwed.

                          Then there's the "I Just Like to Do Something About It" group. These people usually sign the paychecks of the people in the first group.

                          In my experience, that's the way it shapes up.

                          For those who believe that my economics are off-base, I refer you to a book by Ayn Rand called "Atlas Shrugged""Atlas Shrugged" . As you read it, you might ask yourself which group you belong to.

                          Now For Something Completely Different...

                          Just for the record, Ryan, I do place my trust in the God of the Bible and in Jesus Christ His Son. Now before I get flamed, I'm just responding to part of this thread, and I thought it fair to state clearly what my beliefs are (so you can place my comments within their proper context). I'm not telling anyone here what to believe.

                          I appreciate your comments Ryan -- and I admire you "sticking your neck out" by bring them into the discussion. However, my beliefs about spiritual matters don't lead me to the same conclusions you've come to. And since you brought it up, I felt obligated to answer.

                          I won't turn this into a theological discussion about what comprises the "Will of God". For those who are interested in that discussion, I'd suggest a book by Gary Friesen called "Decision Making and the Will Of God""Decision Making and the Will Of God" .
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                  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Actual definition? According to who?
                    According to the dictionary and people who know what they are talking about.

                    Do you have a dictionary?
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      Here's a dictionary or two for ya Chris:

                      1 : the act or action of receding : withdrawal
                      2 : a departing procession (as of clergy and choir at the end of a church service)
                      3 : a period of reduced economic activity
                      recession - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

                      Oops. Nothing about two consecutive quarters there.

                      Here's another one that has a more detailed definition

                      recession
                      An extended decline in general business activity. The National Bureau of Economic Research formally defines a recession as three consecutive quarters of falling real gross domestic product. A recession affects different securities in different ways. For example, holders of high-quality bonds stand to benefit because inflation and interest rates may decline. Conversely, stockholders of manufacturing firms will probably see company profits and dividends drop.

                      Case Study After nearly a year of falling commodity prices, rising unemployment, increasing personal and corporate bankruptcies, falling stock prices, and declining public confidence, the National Bureau of Economic Research made it official and on November 26, 2001, declared a recession. The announcement wasn't a surprise to hundreds of thousands of people who had lost their jobs and an even greater number of investors who had experienced substantial losses in the stock market. The bureau's Business Cycle Dating Committee of six academic economists determined the recession commenced in March 2001, when economic activity stopped growing. Although many economists use declines in gross domestic product to define a recession, the NBER Dating Committee examined employment, industrial production, manufacturing and trade sales, and personal income. The country's last previous recession lasted eight months and ended in March 1991. The subsequent ten-year period of uninterrupted growth between March 1991 and March 2001 was the longest in America's history.
                      Oops, that one mentions the NBER's defintion although the dictionary made a mistake about the NBER's defintion and said it was 3 consecutive quarters, which is not really NBERs definition. Image that. A dictionary being wrong! :-)

                      recession financial definition of recession. recession finance term by the Free Online Dictionary.

                      Let's try another one of them dictionaries:

                      1. The act of withdrawing or going back.
                      2. An extended decline in general business activity, typically two consecutive quarters of falling real gross national product.
                      3. The withdrawal in a line or file of participants in a ceremony, especially clerics and choir members after a church service.
                      recession - definition of recession by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

                      Hey, it says two consecutive quarters, but there's that darn "typically" word in there again. Guess you're wrong so far.

                      Let's try one more:

                      Re`ces´sion Pronunciation: rė`sĕsh´ŭn
                      n. 1. The act of receding or withdrawing, as from a place, a claim, or a demand.
                      Mercy may rejoice upon the recessions of justice.
                      - Jer. Taylor.
                      2. (Economics) A period during which economic activity, as measured by gross domestic product, declines for at least two quarters in a row in a specific country. If the decline is severe and long, such as greater than ten percent, it may be termed a depression.
                      3. A procession in which people leave a ceremony, such as at a religious service.
                      1. The act of ceding back; restoration; repeated cession; as, the recession of conquered territory to its former sovereign.
                      Recession - Definition of Recession by Webster's Online Dictionary

                      By golly. It has your definition. Of course that's the 1913 Webster dictionary, but hey, I'll give it to you Chris. One out of four. Good going.

                      No, seriously, we were talking about the US economy I believe and the NBER is generally the one who decides if the US is in or has been in a recession.



                      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

                      According to the dictionary and people who know what they are talking about.

                      Do you have a dictionary?
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        I HATE to say it, but....

                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        Here's a dictionary or two for ya Chris:
                        recession - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

                        Oops. Nothing about two consecutive quarters there.
                        NOT ACCURATE, and it basically says we have been in a recession for DECADES!




                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        recession financial definition of recession. recession finance term by the Free Online Dictionary.

                        Let's try another one of them dictionaries:



                        Hey, it says two consecutive quarters, but there's that darn "typically" word in there again. Guess you're wrong so far.
                        BETTER, but I don't think we really qualify NOW then!

                        PLEASE NOTE:

                        Interest rates usually fall in recessionary times to stimulate the economy by offering cheap rates at which to borrow money.
                        I have said that for about 16 years!!!!! I mentioned it HERE a few times! That IDIOT greenspan took away THAT option! Why don't they throw him in jail for a few decades for being a TRAITOR!?


                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        Recession - Definition of Recession by Webster's Online Dictionary

                        By golly. It has your definition. Of course that's the 1913 Webster dictionary, but hey, I'll give it to you Chris. One out of four. Good going.

                        Now, seriously, we were talking about the US economy I believe and the NBER is generally the one who decides if the US is in or has been in a recession.
                        ECONOMICS IS ECONOMICS! We are talking about ideas that have been around for MILLENIA! This is the clearest and most accurate definition! And "NBER"?!?!?!? You're KIDDING, RIGHT? Who died and made THEM boss? Do you work for them or something?

                        BTW Their site says, regarding recent recessions:

                        Economic Fluctuations and Growth

                        On November 26, 2001, the committee announced that a recession had begun in the U.S. economy in March 2001. That is, a peak in economic activity occurred during March and the economy began to contract. A recession is a significant decline in activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, visible in real gross domestic product, employment, and other indicators of activity. The committee determined in November 2001 that these conditions had been met.

                        On July 17, 2003, the committee announced that the recession had ended in November of 2001. The trough marked the end of the recession that began in March 2001 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted eight months, which is slightly less than average for recessions since World War II. Real GDP has grown since the trough, as shown in the figure below.
                        SO, "happy days are here again"( Lyrics and Music ), huh?

                        Frankly, data is polluted, and I think that is all HOG WASH! If ONLY I had some dirty pigs.

                        OK, I don't get it! That doesn't support your case at all!
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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post




                          NOT ACCURATE, and it basically says we have been in a recession for DECADES!
                          Right. Kind of my point. A dictionary isn't always accurate.


                          BETTER, but I don't think we really qualify NOW then!
                          NBER hasn't said we are in a recession yet. I'm not saying we are either, but we could be if the last quarter had a negative GDP.

                          The NBER was founded in 1920. Its first staff economist and Director of Research was Wesley Mitchell. Simon Kuznets was working at the NBER when the U.S. government asked him to help organize a system of national accounts in 1930, which was the beginning of the official measurement of GDP and other related indices of economic activity. Due to its work on national accounts and business cycles, the NBER is well-known for providing start and end dates for recessions in the United States.

                          The NBER is the largest economics research organization in the United States. Sixteen of the 31 American winners of the Nobel Prize in Economics have been NBER associates, as well as three of the past Chairmen of the Council of Economic Advisers, including the former NBER president, Martin Feldstein. NBER research is published by the University of Chicago Press.
                          National Bureau of Economic Research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          I'm not saying the NBER has THE definitive definition of a recession, but they carry as much weight as any dictionary. They helped define what the GDP is. I'm just showing Brian's statement wasn't BS.



                          That doesn't support your case at all!
                          That link was out of place. That was the link that had "typical" in it. I moved it. Thanks for catching that Steve.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
                            I enjoy a good spirited debate as much as anyone.

                            But my original point was (and still is) that ENTREPRENEURS are the ONLY people who will make a positive change in the "economy".

                            My title for the thread was chosen carefully.

                            When I said "Screw the Economy" it was NOT (as has been suggested here) "ignorant". In fact, I chose the title -- and specifically the term "economy" -- because most people ARE using that term in ignorance. They talk about it as if it (the "economy") is a THING they can pin down and point to.

                            The "economy" is not some static THING that we can analyze. It is a term that refers to a system of knowledge based on observing the ACTIVITIES of... certain people.

                            Ever notice how most "economists" are broke? Why is that? In my experience, it's because they spend their time in an academic pursuit instead of in a wealth-creating pursuit.

                            Politicians (and economists) do not provide jobs, reduce inflation, or "help" the economy.

                            They do however, ARTIFICIALLY create FAKE jobs that the marketplace will not support (this these jobs must be funded by... you guessed it... MORE taxes!), temporarily manipulate inflation, and re-distribute money to further their own self interest.

                            I'm not against self-interest. The problem with the aforementioned groups is that they engage in a very specific practice in order to accomplish their aims: theft.

                            They steal from those who produce wealth, jobs, incomes, profits, etc. so they can give to those who do none of those things.

                            After all, who pays all those new taxes. Well, we all know..it's the "rich", of course.

                            You know, those "greedy *******s" who are just out to make a buck. Of course... those are the same "greedy *******s" who provide the jobs, goods and services everyone else counts on to keep their lives pleasant and comfortable.

                            Why did banks collapse? Because they loaned money to people with bad credit records, no jobs, and low incomes. In other words, they made bad business decisions.

                            The point of my post was not to engage in this debate, however.

                            Nor was it to argue about which dictionary has the right definition of the word "recession".

                            It was to say simply that WE as ENTREPRENEURS can defy the odds, and make a positive economic change in the present economic reality.

                            And ONLY we can do that.

                            It was to say that instead of being one of "the many" who bemoan their fate (or spend time constructing elaborate arguments about WHY THINGS WON'T WORK)... we are called to be one of the FEW who actually DO something about it.

                            Those who hear the "call of the entrepreneur" know what I'm talking about. You're nodding your head right now. You know that yes, circumstances may be challenging, but there is a way to profit from those circumstances. And that there is a way to do it ethically that benefits you, your staff, your customers, and the world at large -- all at once.

                            This is NOT a "zero-sum" game where there MUST be losers.

                            Only losers think that way.

                            ;-)
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                            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              When I said "Screw the Economy" it was NOT (as has been suggested here) "ignorant". In fact, I chose the title -- and specifically the term "economy" -- because most people ARE using that term in ignorance. They talk about it as if it (the "economy") is a THING they can pin down and point to.

                              The "economy" is not some static THING that we can analyze. It is a term that refers to a system of knowledge based on observing the ACTIVITIES of... certain people.
                              Ray, I get the point you're trying to make. But do you really think the best way to make that point is to say screw the system of production, distribution, and consumption that our country depends on?

                              My point in implying ignorance was that no matter how driven and prosperous individual entrepreneurs are, if the system is crippled or fails it will effect everyone. If the haves vs. have nots gap becomes big enough and times get hard enough, a well oiled profit machine won't be worth much in a time of revolution? Not saying that that will happen. But turning your back completely on the possibility seems less than prudent to me.


                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              Why did banks collapse? Because they loaned money to people with bad credit records, no jobs, and low incomes. In other words, they made bad business decisions.
                              I couldn't agree more.


                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              It was to say simply that WE as ENTREPRENEURS can defy the odds, and make a positive economic change in the present economic reality.
                              I get that and I agree. But like it or not, the collective economy is bigger and more powerful than any of us as individuals. And I agree that given any situation short of catastrophic failure, the go-getters are going to get everything they can out of any given situation.

                              I guess the "present economic reality" may be where the confusion was. My point was to simply keep your finger on the pulse of the "present economic reality" as it changes.

                              Basically, I'm agreeing with you by saying don't obsess about the economy, but do observe.
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                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              I enjoy a good spirited debate as much as anyone.

                              But my original point was (and still is) that ENTREPRENEURS are the ONLY people who will make a positive change in the "economy".
                              It depends on how you define the word!

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              When I said "Screw the Economy" it was NOT (as has been suggested here) "ignorant". In fact, I chose the title -- and specifically the term "economy" -- because most people ARE using that term in ignorance. They talk about it as if it (the "economy") is a THING they can pin down and point to.

                              The "economy" is not some static THING that we can analyze. It is a term that refers to a system of knowledge based on observing the ACTIVITIES of... certain people.
                              Well, I don't like the idea of speaking in such a tone, and just about called it STUPID.

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              Ever notice how most "economists" are broke? Why is that? In my experience, it's because they spend their time in an academic pursuit instead of in a wealth-creating pursuit.
                              Most "economists" are merely idiots spouting rehashed dreck. In any event, the job description doesn't call for providing anything of value, or even selling anything other than themselves and their ideas(which as I said are usually not really their own anyway).

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              Politicians (and economists) do not provide jobs, reduce inflation, or "help" the economy.
                              Politicians COULD if they cut back on taxes and needless spending, and enforced various laws and charged duties. Economists COULD if they encouraged that as some can. Unfortunately, they are usually out for THEMSELVES!

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              They do however, ARTIFICIALLY create FAKE jobs that the marketplace will not support (this these jobs must be funded by... you guessed it... MORE taxes!), temporarily manipulate inflation, and re-distribute money to further their own self interest.
                              YEP, in other words the HURT the economy by doing the opposite of what I often say will help it. They charge more taxes to pay for a needless program.

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              I'm not against self-interest. The problem with the aforementioned groups is that they engage in a very specific practice in order to accomplish their aims: theft.
                              I wish more would act on the statement you just made!

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              They steal from those who produce wealth, jobs, incomes, profits, etc. so they can give to those who do none of those things.
                              YEP, and they call THAT progress! RIDICULOUS!

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              After all, who pays all those new taxes. Well, we all know..it's the "rich", of course.
                              I'm not that rich and yet I am paying enough in taxes to hire one or two americans at a good salary!

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              You know, those "greedy *******s" who are just out to make a buck. Of course... those are the same "greedy *******s" who provide the jobs, goods and services everyone else counts on to keep their lives pleasant and comfortable.
                              What about the congressmen that work half of the year, or LESS, and yet START with $99k/year(almost 3 times the national average), SPECIAL pension, SPECIAL perks, SPECIAL programs, etc....?

                              Originally Posted by radioray View Post

                              Why did banks collapse? Because they loaned money to people with bad credit records, no jobs, and low incomes. In other words, they made bad business decisions.
                              EXACTLY! And some aren't even legal residents!
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                              • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
                                Well, the DOW just ended its worst week ever in its 112-year history.

                                This inconvenient fact won't stop some from continuing to believe that "everything is fine" and "everything will recover shortly."

                                Moments ago, I read a comment from a guy predicting DOW 13,000 by Christmas. He must be delusional.

                                Today, Phil Izzo at the Wall Street Journal writes, "The U.S. economy has sunk into a recession and government action is critical to stem the damage, according to economists in the latest Wall Street Journal forecasting survey."

                                Economists Expect Crisis to Deepen - WSJ.com

                                Do I think all this is cause to become paralyzed by fear and do nothing?

                                No. Not at all.

                                Certainly, press forward with business plans, etc. And have a good contingency plan in place, too.

                                But to say the economy isn't hurting is plain stupid. Too many people have been blinded by so-called "abundance thinking."

                                Bowing to the golden calf ain't gonna save you from financial difficulties -- or anything else for that matter.

                                Ryan Healy

                                P.S. On a side note, not all economists are poor. Bill Bonner makes a princely sum as the founder of Agora Financial. You can read his views on the economy at:

                                The Daily Reckoning
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                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

                                  Well, the DOW just ended its worst week ever in its 112-year history.

                                  This inconvenient fact won't stop some from continuing to believe that "everything is fine" and "everything will recover shortly."

                                  Moments ago, I read a comment from a guy predicting DOW 13,000 by Christmas. He must be delusional.

                                  Today, Phil Izzo at the Wall Street Journal writes, "The U.S. economy has sunk into a recession and government action is critical to stem the damage, according to economists in the latest Wall Street Journal forecasting survey."

                                  Economists Expect Crisis to Deepen - WSJ.com

                                  Do I think all this is cause to become paralyzed by fear and do nothing?

                                  No. Not at all.

                                  Certainly, press forward with business plans, etc. And have a good contingency plan in place, too.

                                  But to say the economy isn't hurting is plain stupid. Too many people have been blinded by so-called "abundance thinking."

                                  Bowing to the golden calf ain't gonna save you from financial difficulties -- or anything else for that matter.

                                  Ryan Healy

                                  P.S. On a side note, not all economists are poor. Bill Bonner makes a princely sum as the founder of Agora Financial. You can read his views on the economy at:

                                  The Daily Reckoning
                                  Actually, the dow just had a GREAT rally! Some MORON told a half truth, and set it back but, if not for that it might have been UP 100!!!!!! In fact, when that MORON spoke like the market was DOWN by such an incredible amount, before they could even SIT DOWN, the market RECOVERED, and was UP for the day! INCREDIBLE! After their stupid IDIOCY, the market AGAIN went down a LOT, and AGAIN bounced back! It ended up DOWN for the day but with some technical BUY signals! Will it be at $13,000? Probably not, but WHO KNOWS!?!?!? Some fundamentals are BETTER now!

                                  Steve
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                                  • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
                                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                    Actually, the dow just had a GREAT rally! Some MORON told a half truth, and set it back but, if not for that it might have been UP 100!!!!!! In fact, when that MORON spoke like the market was DOWN by such an incredible amount, before they could even SIT DOWN, the market RECOVERED, and was UP for the day! INCREDIBLE! After their stupid IDIOCY, the market AGAIN went down a LOT, and AGAIN bounced back! It ended up DOWN for the day but with some technical BUY signals! Will it be at $13,000? Probably not, but WHO KNOWS!?!?!? Some fundamentals are BETTER now!

                                    Steve
                                    I assume "MORON" = George Bush?

                                    And who are you referring to when you say "their stupid IDIOCY"?

                                    I found your comment somewhat confusing...

                                    Ryan Healy
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                                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                      Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

                                      I assume "MORON" = George Bush?

                                      And who are you referring to when you say "their stupid IDIOCY"?

                                      I found your comment somewhat confusing...

                                      Ryan Healy
                                      Well, I probably mentioned it earlier, but this forum now FORCES you to mkae your OWN thread references. Bush didn't have that kind of control even when he was PRESIDENT! Bernanke does though. Like in 1999 when grennspan raised the interest rates high, and pushed the market down.

                                      Or how about BAKER that said they wanted to drive the dollar 30% lower in 1987 like the DAY before the 1987 crash?

                                      Steve
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                          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy123
                            can't believe the squabbling over a definition

                            recession is relative according to each persons financial standing,
                            whether bull or bear market
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                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                              Yeh, I can't believe it either.

                              I do think a recession is relevant to anyone, no matter what their financial standing is though.

                              Originally Posted by Jeremy123 View Post

                              can't believe the squabbling over a definition

                              recession is relative according to each persons financial standing,
                              whether bull or bear market
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                          • Profile picture of the author Income_Legend
                            A wonderful thread with great, thought-provoking, and inspiring posts. In fact to see so much enthusiasm, positiveness and spirit in a time, which is considered to be bad, is really heartening.

                            Thanks for the thread, it has raised hopes of many. Three Cheers to the people who think they can, the real winners!
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                          • Profile picture of the author balsimon
                            By nature and through learning, people are problem solvers and opportunity grabbers. Those of us not taught to hate competition and winning are the hope for the future.

                            I have no idea how big a problem "this economy" really is. But I think there is much reason for optimism.

                            The main problem with "this economy" is that the people that most of us thought we could rely on turned out to be either asleep or incompetent (or worse). One of the reasons that confidence is so shaken right now is that we see our leaders flailing around and nothing changing for the better.

                            But they too are problem solvers. One can only hope that we like their solutions.

                            In the meantime - in the meantime - the time is now to learn and hustle.

                            Regards,
                            Bal
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                          • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
                            I have a friend who, several years ago, was watching the stock market dive kinda like now. One of the plummeting stocks was Kmart. He quickly borrowed some money and bought 10,000 shares. Sears rescued Kmart, stocks went back up, and my buddy pocketed a quick $15k.....
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                            • Profile picture of the author adamv
                              I think all of the doomsdayers are absolutely right. The economy sucks and the U.S. dollar is worthless. So, anyone who wants to get rid of all of their useless U.S. greenbacks can send them to me. I'll be happy to take them off of your hands and dispose of them properly.
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

                Of course, if we weren't in a recession, why would the government be scrambling to throw $700 billion at the economy. To make a strong economy even better?


                A quick Google search seems to indicate most (all?) sovereign nations use fiat currency. Although I'm sure there are some isolated places that still use commodity money or barter as a means of exchange.

                Do you really not know the stated reason for the bailout?


                Why doesn't every country in the world have hyperinflation if they are all on fiat currency, which you say causes hyperinflation?
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

                  Do you really not know the stated reason for the bailout?


                  Why doesn't every country in the world have hyperinflation if they are all on fiat currency, which you say causes hyperinflation?

                  They DO have hyperinflation! You just don't realize it because they USUALLY balance it out. Look at HERSHEY! Their bar used to be a good indicator of inflation. It kept changing in size. EVENTUALLY, things got SO bad they changed the price. NOW, it is SMALLER and costs MORE!

                  BTW The G8 was created to help mitigate inflation. The 8 largest economies came together and did it. I predicted it would be a G3 when it was G7. OK, russia entered, so the G8 basically became the G4. HOWEVER, the G4 speaks for someting like 36 countries. They include Great britain, most of western europe, part of eastern europe, russia, Japan, and the US. And their ******ONLY******* job is to keep inflation in check. But HECK, the ECU is SUPPOSED to be kept at $1USD! And WHERE is it now?

                  BTW a LOT of people don't know the REAL stated reason for the bailout. Greenspan lowered the rates a bit before clinton came into office, and it started a HUGE boom in real estate. Clinton relaxed bank requirements and, while claiming HE was responsible for the boom, ended up feeding a scam where people called EVERYONE to get them to pay an ABSURDLY low rate! I, MYSELF, was called by a guy that practically called me an IDIOT for not taking his offer. I had an OK rate, and couldn't see how he could offer such a low rate. It turns out it was a SCAM! They hoped to BILK the market out of BILLIONS! Well, the market TOOK OFF in the midst of a huge boo created by greenspan's STUPIDITY and GREED! Greenspan then tried to destroy the market, and basically DECLARED he would do so! He raised rates HIGH! The dot com boom became dot bomb. He THEN scrambles to lower the rate a LOT! George bush came in. The cash eventually dried up, and mortgages started failing.

                  The STATED purpose of the bailout is to BUY those failed mortgages at CURRENT market(This means the current mortgagers TAKE A LOSS, but they will NOT lose more!), and try to give those people favorable terms so they can KEEP their homes. If successful, the people will KEEP their homes, market values will start to climb, and the government can make money. If PARTIALLY successful, the market values may still possibly climb, and the government can make money. If it is a total failure, the market may drop a bit, but the big banks are safe, and the government might still make money. The ONLY way they can lose is if the average property LOSES value over what the outstanding loan is at purchase! If they bought MY home, and I defaulted, they would today probably MAKE over $60,000USD! OK, property values fell, and it is a depressed market, and I have a middle class home. But that value increases an average of over $1,000USD every month! BTW I never did take that jerk up on that deal. My terms are still OK, and I am not likely to default.

                  Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

              You lost me when you mention recession, since we are NOT in one now.

              Can you name some countries that do not use fiat currency?
              Switzerland doesn't, in the most absolute meaning. Last I heard, they had like 7 times the reserve of the entire US. That was BEFORE the US probably sold off like EVERYTHING! It is IRONIC that the sold cost was like 10 times the legal value, ORIGINALLY! AGAIN, the legal value hasn't gone up, but the market value has nearly doubled.

              Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark M. Bravura
            Originally Posted by -RMH- View Post

            Let's not kid ourselves. Even if we are the engine of society, that won't help us if there is a complete economic collapse in the U.S.

            At that point, gardening would be a more practical skill than marketing or copywriting.
            So all those eBooks I've got on gardening might come in handy after all!
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            • Profile picture of the author Jeremy123
              From what I've been hearing on cnn and cnbc it seems many governments
              are working together to fix this, Paulson now seems to be following the UK's plan.

              Maybe this is just extreme greed, as always getting out of hand
              every so often and not a neo-con Nazi conspiracy.

              They need to sort out the cds market and guarantee inter-bank lending, libor.

              Or...

              conspiratorially, they are slowly consolidating the financial system and allowing
              the gov. to buy into and own sections of the financial industry via using bailout money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paramount Chief
        Jermy I think you got it right, "The Emperor Has No Clothes On". America is broke. America is based on debt. I also agree with dvduval's post, we should consider others who might be hurt and don't have the financial resources some other may have. What America does have is a great people and a can do spirit, which has sevred us well. A postive mindset coupled with definite, precise action can make all the difference. Remember the symbol for crisis is also the symbol for opportunity in China.

        Dare To Be Great!
        Shabaka J-El
        The Plan B Strategist
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        • Profile picture of the author BuddyT
          Banned
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
            Originally Posted by BuddyT View Post

            Ah yes, I always look to a religious text for economic advice. %^]
            The passages I quoted have to do with fairness and honesty.

            I guess the primary difference between me and a lot of folks (religious people included) is that I believe in God's total sovereignty.

            Most people (Christians included) are humanists... the idea of man as god.

            "If you want something, just make it happen." Or "You can have whatever you want if you put your mind to it." That kind of thing.

            This is philosophical candy. It sounds great, but it will rot your brain.

            Man has been given a certain amount of authority in the world. It is limited by God. Ultimately, He is the One in control.

            If He is bringing down the economic system, then there is not a thing any one of us can do to stop it.

            Where do you place your trust -- in the God of the Bible or "your" ability to earn dollars?

            Ryan Healy
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      • Profile picture of the author ninja newbie
        Originally Posted by Jeremy123 View Post

        That's fine and dandy for now, but the US dollar is going to
        be worth nothing eventually, protect yourself and buy other currencies,
        or try and do business in another currency.

        This crisis is simple: the US has borrowed too much money
        from other countries and spent it, and now they can't pay it back.

        The FED keeps printing more and more money to give the illusion
        that they are helping, but all they are doing is devaluing the dollar.

        America is broke, America is all based on debt.

        Hyperinflation.

        Interviews with Peter Schiff about the economy.

        Euro Pacific Capital | Video Archives
        You know what? It's been a long time comin'. Hey that was an awesome video by the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I am concerned about how the downturn might affect people that don't have the resources like we do, and do feel we are in a state of change that will have long term effects right now. I think the change will be positive in the long term, but clearly enormous mistakes have been made.

    As I look at the numbers on the markets, there are some great opportunities right now, but what we don't know if how deep or how long. It's a great time to buy some asset classes, but you have to be prepared to weather the storm which is just getting started.
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    • Profile picture of the author naruq
      When you develop a Prosperity and Success Mindset you will create wealth in any economy! For example, Even in the great depression of 1929 their were people who became millionaires years later who took advantage of opportunities during that time.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Just got off the phone with a friend. Was all set to visit from Toronto. Bus strike, dad away he doesn't drive. So he can't come up. Our friends say they can't come up because its too far. And yet some of our Toronto friends come up repeatedly.

    I give this brief story to illustrate the mentality that people on this thread are talking about. You can do anything if you let NOTHING stop you. Gas prices? So what? Long drive? so what! I've driven lots and paid the price and have been happier for it because I got to see people I care about. Economy downturn? Not likely! Take what it is and make something good from it. Just got downsized? Start your own business and be in profit!

    I'm a prem. Which means I was born early. In fact I was born in September of 1976 when I was supposed to be born in February of 1977. My heart hadn't developed right. The docs said I wouldn't make it. BUT I DID. Point is, if you believe you WILL achieve it. And in my book anyone that says otherwise, or lets the little things stop them is not someone I want to waste my time on.

    Whew, that was a bit more of a rant then I intended. Still, the message is the same. Thanks for listening. Let's all show 'em wrong!
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  • Profile picture of the author sparrow
    In this time in history, being able to generate an income has no borders and using the internet is the medium.

    Some place, somewhere there is customers, you just have to find what they are buying.

    Focus on the prize and open your horizons the opportunities are there.

    Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author grafxgold
    Duh,

    For all the Doomsayers:
    If you're so broke why are you paying for internet
    service and all the bells and whistles which got you here?

    Millions and millions of people are not broke or crying !

    There is a market for those that have the mentality to
    NOT be a pessimist in their attitude.
    Duh again
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    • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
      Ryan,

      If there's one thing worse than a pessimist, it's a THINKING pessimist.

      Especially one who can WRITE.

      But that doesn't make you correct.

      ;-)
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Doomsayers seem to come out of the woodwork whenever there is a downturn in the economy. Quit watching TV and go visit the malls. Why are the shopping centers and malls still always so crowded? My business is actually increasing!
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        • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
          You just hit the nail on the head: good news doesn't sell papers (or make for big TV ratings)... that's why they say, "if it bleeds, it leads".

          All I'm saying is: we're a group of people who think up IDEAS... turn them into streams of ELECTRONS... and create wealth by doing it. We, of ALL people, should know better than to play the "chicken little" game.

          The sky is not falling.
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          Ray Edwards
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          • Profile picture of the author vorales
            Well it all depends from individual to individual,some might take this financial crisis as an opportunity and some are spectacle about their money in the bank is safe or not?

            The oil is playing around in the world as it is around 92$/barrel,Gold is fluctuating,Silver is Down,Copper is down to 5850,zinc is down 1590 ,palm oil is down,i guess almost all the comoddities in the world is down at the moment.as a matter of fact people are scared.

            Due to so much fluctuations in the market, the economy of world is in danger also because of the American Financial institutation are collasping.
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  • Profile picture of the author nebuer
    This is definately the best time to invest in things like Gold.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andres
    Yes, you are 100% correct as marketers we make our own economy. As far as I'm concerned I'll be Ok. I'm still young and I'll bounce back no problem.

    But I do worry for my parents who are not marketers and are ready to retire.

    Now I find myself talking to them about investing in precious metals to hedge against inflation and protect what they have.
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  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon1
    Banned
    This is just the beginning of economy down turn, there will be more worst news to come, but you are right, we are the marketer, we are the economy!

    So cheer up warrior! let's fight the economy and make more money....we are the economy!
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    • Profile picture of the author marley
      Originally Posted by kkchoon1 View Post

      This is just the beginning of economy down turn, there will be more worst news to come, but you are right, we are the marketer, we are the economy!
      If this is just the beginning then it is a long one i was hoping that we were closer to the end than the start and that maybe around the turn of the year we will see things heading in an upwards direction once again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tuzic
    Banned
    hi,

    i think for peopel actually selling products online like on amazon or ebay then they will be effected other other IM wont be.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
      Here's a different, empowering question:

      If money is nothing more than a measuring unit of the exchange of value... what can you do to create more value?

      Think about that carefully.

      While there may (or may not) be a finite amount of money... if we can CREATE value (which we can)... then there is an INFINITE amount of value to create.
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    That sounds like What Frank Kern stated in his emergency video.

    Now that was a good solid video, and right on spot with the economy.


    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I thought, and was ALWAYS told, that a couple companies WERE run by the government. I wanted to tell you a half truth, and found I was RIGHT! The half truth? From their website:

    FNMA was created in 1938, under President Franklin D. Roosevelt, at a time when millions of families could not become homeowners, or risked losing their homes, for lack of a consistent supply of mortgage funds across America.

    The government established FNMA in order to expand the flow of mortgage funds in all communities, at all times, under all economic conditions, and to help lower the costs to buy a home.

    FNMA has a unique duty to the public it serves -- and the private investors that fuel its service -- to be a model company focused on service, reliability, and value.
    OK, you got me! The "lie"? They changed their WRITTEN name because nobody could remember Federal National Nortgage Association, or whatever the ackronym is precisely for. Today they are known as Fannie Mae!

    About Fannie Mae

    How about the FEDERAL Home Loan Mortgage Association, FHLMC AKA Freddie Mac!? Shouldn't the GOVERNMENT have been watching them? If anyone, the POLITICIANS should pay! If I were king, I would GUT their pensions and entitlements and buy back the worthless loans, and kick out the freeloaders. Unfortunately, I am NOT. If done RIGHT though, this won't make ANYONE rich! It WILL bring sanity back though. I guess none of you feel you have to save any money.

    You PROBABLY want to have over $150K for every year of your life up to 70. If you are 20, that means you probably want $7,500,000 saved up! Do you have that? If not, HOW will you get it? DON'T say selling, because the credit market could make internet commerce HISTORY! And WHO might buy?

    OK, DON'T be pessimistic! The depression is a big 800 pound gorilla. DON'T worry about him hurting you. Just DON'T advocate going up and trying to hit him, etc.... Doing so would be pretty stupid!

    BTW by my little formula, which may STILL be low, I only need 3,750,000! This latest downturn certainly hasn't helped.

    STEVE
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug McIsaac
    Great post. I was about to start one just like this, but your real estate launch is an awesome example.

    Good marketing is even MORE important in our current economy.

    Doug
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    • Profile picture of the author BuddyT
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
        Also, always remember that as an Internet marketer, you are working with global economy not local only. If you're only restricting yourself to the US economy - like I see some of the big companies do with US-only forms, etc. - then you are missing out on a whole lot more.

        I sell to just about every corner of the planet (no sales from Uzbekistan, yet). The local Osaka economy is in the toilet again, but it makes absolutely no difference to me. Go global!
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  • I keep telling everybody that all they have to do is give ME the $700 Billion dollars and I'd be glad to spend it and revive the economy.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      I keep telling everybody that all they have to do is give ME the $700 Billion dollars and I'd be glad to spend it and revive the economy.

      Call me up when you get the 700 billion, dinner on you though..
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      " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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  • Profile picture of the author AlexKaplo
    Hey there Radioray,

    Wow, great post man thanks for sharing that and it's nice hearing you made some serious money there.

    The second I finished reading your story you reminded me of the definition of an entrepreneur and I never truly knew what it was until I watched the movie "The Call of the Entrepreneur".

    I'm not getting paid to advertise this but I recommended everyone to check out this movie or at least watch the trailer on Youtube... Here's the link .
    Again thanks for sharing your success story man it really motivated me!


    Regards,

    -Alex Kaplo
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  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    funny ....I was talking todaya to several guys who discussed the situation the same as you guys ...

    what I am thinking is that we should ALL concentrate on developing some method(s) to get in the way of some of that 700 billion dollars ...

    now that is a great assignment for you guys .....ponder me that .

    where does the money go ? who gets the check ? and I am sure that I am not the first to suggest that EACh Amerikan get a check for his/her share of that PLUS our share of the Iragi boondoogle....

    4371 dead in Irag ....how many died in the towers ? at a cost of over a trillion dollars ...those numbers amuse me ....no ONE knows how much a trillion dollars really is ...I can divide the same as Bush , but cannot really see the implications until you start dividing those billion by , say , the 200 million it would take to build a state of the art medical training university ...
    or
    say 1000 free medical/dental clinics across the US and fund em ...for 10 million EACH

    and the youngsters get to pay for all this ...in deflated dollars ..in a defeated homeland ....

    in the meantime, we need to develop a method to get as much of that 700 billion as possible

    any ideas ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Ray Edwards
      Stand back..

      1. Find a large group of people who are really excited about some particular subject in a near-fanatic way (you know like golf, football, Ferraris, losing weight, collecting "classic" computers, Star Trek, hair weaves, etc.)

      2. Make sure they're already spending money on this subject... ideally on info-products of some kind.

      3. Make sure there's PLENTY of competition already (in other words, other info products that you will compete against).

      4. BUY them all.

      5. Take their BEST ideas... re-work them and weave them together with YOUR best ideas (which are new, and fresh, and which fill in the "gaps" in the other products).

      6. Create your own product now, that is BETTER than all the others.

      7. Use the marketing knowledge you already have to SELL that product.

      You will be SPENDING MONEY on other people's products.

      You will be LEARNING and IMPROVING your life.

      You will MAKE MONEY selling your own product.

      Your customers will SPEND money and their LIVES WILL IMPROVE.

      Repeat at will.

      That's how you get to let some of that money that is out there, circulating. That's the ONLY way for us to "grow" the economy... by keeping the money (eg, the EXCHANGE OF VALUE) circulating. When we shut down and stop the flow.... bad things can happen.

      This is what I have been getting at all along.

      Now... go do SOMETHING!

      :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author JWB
    Understood that the economy may be perceived bad by the majority of people.....but does this perceived bad state of the economy Help or Hurt internet marketing ??
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  • Profile picture of the author mrmcd
    No matter if the economy is going up/down or "Nose-Dive Crashing", it's never bad news for us online marketors. Infact, sorry to say, it's good. Well, I am not happy for everyone that is getting tight on cash, but from the perspective of making money online, it just makes it so much easier! Just have a think about it.

    There are loads of ways to cash-in on the economy crash.

    Firstly, you can put packages together that help people escape the rat race, "No longer having rely on a job or the GOVERNMENT", you can come with a very powerful and emotionally compelling offer, when you come with those sort of thoughts. People are scared, you can help them
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  • Profile picture of the author SullyUI
    It's all mental; this recession is actually an opportunity for those with the right perspective. Certainly some sectors have slowed down to an almost grinding halt but that doesn't mean it's the end of the world as some people claim.
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  • What is the difference between a Recession and a Depression?

    Recession: When your neighbour loses his job
    Depression: When you lose your job

    This is exactly what 'they' refer to when they say 'The Internet Is The Great Equalizer'. We no longer need to rely on an employer or the government to satisfy our needs. The internet provides us the ability to create our own destiny. What we learn can be taught to those around us and this allows us to improve our micro-community.

    Perhaps this downturn in the 'traditional' economy will help people see the light. The early settlers did not come to America because the Indians were hiring. They came because they were offered a piece of land and the opportunity to make something of it. It was called Home-Steading.

    The Internet has given birth to Net-Steading. For the cost of an Internet Connection and a Domain Name anyone can create thier own economy.

    It is my feeling that we have just begun to see a resurgence of the Entrepreneurial Spirit that made North America great... And the world will be a better place because of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author jcmentor
      Here's a paraphrasing of a famous quote from the carmaker, Henry Ford...

      If you think the bad economy will keep you from succeeding, you're probably right.

      If you think it won't, you're probably right.


      All the best,

      Jack
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    • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
      Originally Posted by The MLM Expediter View Post

      This is exactly what 'they' refer to when they say 'The Internet Is The Great Equalizer'. We no longer need to rely on an employer or the government to satisfy our needs. The internet provides us the ability to create our own destiny. What we learn can be taught to those around us and this allows us to improve our micro-community.
      When I had a job, I read the book The Sovereign Individual by James Dale Davidson and Lord William Rees-Mogg.

      It is a phenomenal book. It helped me to understand how the Internet is changing society, and helped me to adapt. I highly recommend it.

      Amazon.com: The Sovereign Individual: Mastering...Amazon.com: The Sovereign Individual: Mastering...

      On a positive note, imagine the most difficult business you could possibly be in at the moment. The one segment of the economy that is hurting the most.

      I'm currently in that market... and with a single direct mail letter plus a single broadcast email, we've produced nearly 50 inquiries with combined MONTHLY volume of more than $40 Million.

      If even half of these inquiries become clients, it will produce $240 Million of ANNUAL volume for my client.

      And that's the WORST business I can possibly imagine being in at this moment.

      So while you should be aware of what's happening, you should also have your "opportunity sensors" set to high sensitivity.

      Even in the midst of hardship, opportunity abounds.

      Ryan Healy
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  • You wrote your post in July now look what's happened.
    When the world struggles with money I realize 1 thing.......it's time to pull out my guitar and play some concerts and STOP STRESSING, got to keep on living. I'm not going to sit down and wait this thing out for the next 4 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author olbiz4cash
    I have to agree with those who are posting that WE are what keeps this economy going. So go out and make your own future. Don't wait for the government to solve our problems...

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Tim Colletti
    Fellow Entrepreneur

    Copy My Wealth - Abundant Living Systems
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    • Profile picture of the author -RMH-
      Just came across this article:

      Why the jobs report is so ominous - Nov. 7, 2008

      The author, Anthony Karydakis, "is a former Chief U.S. Economist for JP Morgan Asset Management."

      He writes:

      "Any doubt that we're officially in a recession can be put aside. Fourth-quarter real GDP is likely to contract sharply. The rapid deterioration of labor markets points to a sharp decline in hours worked and output in the fourth quarter. This is likely to lead to a decline in personal consumption to the tune of 5% or so for that period. Since that makes up about 70% of the economy, the stage has already been set for real GDP to shrink at a more than 4% rate in the fourth quarter."

      At this point, I think it's hard to argue that the recession is a figment of our collective imaginations.

      For the next 6 months, it will be critical to remain vigilant in marketing and promoting your business -- and keeping costs under control. A dollar saved goes straight to your bottom line.

      Ryan Healy
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  • Profile picture of the author AverageGuy
    I was in Southern China twice for about 5 weeks in the passing several months. The entire city is for manufacturing. Most products are exported to US or EU. About 4000 toys makers, there will have about 1700 go bankruptcy in this period of down time. Why? It is because US/EU consumers do not buy as many as before. Why? because US/EU economy is not good, US/EU consumers do not have enough $ as before to spend for their children. As a young father myself, this will be the last I will do. It means I have no choice. So, my conclusion is: the economy in US is really bad now.

    I wish I'm wrong.


    david
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    • Profile picture of the author Reeveso
      Here's my take on the situation...

      There is ABSOLUTELY no point in arguing over it.

      Personally, my plan is to do everything I can possible do to prosper in these economic times, given whatever resources I can use to make more money.

      Do I think the US is gonna go completely bust? Probably not.

      However, say the worst case scenario happens and our beloved US turns into a steaming pile of crap.

      Then, I'll accept it as it is, do what I can to survive and prosper, and keep living my life to the fullest like I am right now.

      If there's something we can change - change it.

      If it's out of our hands - accept the fate and make peace with it.

      Everybody else can have fun arguing, I'm gonna go keep editing the copy I'm working on so I can make myself more rich, then meditate (which I highly suggest learning how to do if you don't already - it helps in times like these), brainstorming up ways to increase my business..then go to bed
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  • Profile picture of the author Lifedreamer
    I feel the same way. The economy should not stop any of us going forward in our dreams and desires to be successful in multiple streams of income such as real estate, stocks and internet marketing. Onward and forward to our success. This is the time for us all to push forward people are going to need us. Let us all get going and keep our positive mindsets.
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  • Profile picture of the author traces2757
    Doomsdayers seem to get off on times like these. Seriously. They almost seem excited to suddenly have a springboard for their pessimistic predictions. Their ultimate high would be to be able to say "I told you so!" To them this would be pure bliss.

    Fortunately, a lot of us know that spending time worrying, complaining and resigning ourselves to a grim fate doesn't get us anywhere but exactly where we predict we'll be. One of my favorite sayings is "Whether you say you can or you say you can't, either way, you are right."

    It really is all in the attitude.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      This is a great time for Internet Marketers. There are more people than ever wanting to have their own home-base business. Reach out to them in local newspaper ads and put a sign on your car, pass out flyers, etc. I have a sign on my car that says:

      What Recession? Business is Booming!
      Work At Home - Never Have A Boss Again

      .. then my phone number and website.

      I am getting more signups for my affiliate programs than ever before. And, I put everything over living expenses that I earn into the stock market. The economy will rebound; it always has and there always will be more downturns in the future to make even more money during these cycles. Home business signups boom when the economy sours, and becomes even more profitable for those home business owners who just started when the good times roll again. And they will. You can take that to the bank.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        It's official! We've been in a recession since 2007! Sorry. I couldn't resist.

        It's official: U.S. is in recession - Economy in Turmoil- msnbc.com


        The White House commented on the news without ever actually using the word “recession,” a term President George W. Bush and his aides have repeatedly avoided.

        Instead, spokesman Tony Fratto remarked upon the fact that the NBER “determines the start and end dates of business cycles.”
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  • Profile picture of the author jazzyjeff
    Radioray,

    There is a saying out there that says,"Get in when everyone is getting out." That usually only applies to real estate and stocks. However, do you see that all niches have the same chance of making money in this economy (besides real estate and stocks/forex)?

    Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author Josef_Benjamin
    The last thing I' think about is the shape of the economy. I didn't even know the economy was in this so called recession...strange, as I still make great money, meet awesome people, and am still having a great time.

    It's all a matter of perspective.

    I do feel for those who have been downsized because of the economy, but why are so many people looking for a pity party or a handout for their misfortune?

    People need to wake up and smell the coffee. Nothing is guaranteed in life and people have grown to expect these guarantee's.
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBooks
    Ben Bernanke, in his Book, offers the following Comparison:
    Originally Posted by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke;


    “Those who doubt that there is much connection between the economy of the 1930s and the supercharged, information-age economy of the twenty-first century are invited to look at the current economic headlines -- about high unemployment, failing banks, volatile financial markets, currency crises, and even deflation.

    The issues raised by the Depression, and its lessons, are still relevant today.”
    Idea People, however, will be making money off the recession....
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  • Profile picture of the author Dainis
    Being clear about definitions is something sorely lacking in American Consciousness. I am relieved that folks are haggling out definitions here with determination and vigor!
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  • Profile picture of the author gdwebs
    Originally Posted by radioray View Post

    Hey gang,

    I realize I'm probably "preaching to the choir" with this post, but...

    If you're worrying about the economy... don't.

    We're marketers. We are the economy.

    Case in point: I just finished up a launch for a client where we did $1.2 million in seven days.

    My client's business is not in the IM world... it's in real estate. In the middle of our launch, guess what happened? The largest bank failure in US history. Cause of said bank failure? Bad real estate loans.

    Now, most people would have freaked out. Our launch certainly came grinding to a halt.

    Then we gave it some thought and decided, "What's the real story here? Isn't this a great time to invest in properties -- when prices are plummeting? When you can, as the saying goes, 'buy low'? Of course it is!"

    So we just fired up the email marketing machine and kept going... and we crushed it.

    In fact, over half our sales came after the bank crashes!

    For me, the moral of the story is: as a marketer, you've got the power to create your own economy. Just pay attention to what's going on in your market, respond in a way that helps them and supports your cause at the same time... and the rewards will come.

    Now let's go keep the wheels of commerce turning, shall we?

    ;-)
    So very true. I know about 20-30 property investors and they are having a field day

    Of course, this does mean that people are losing out somewhere along the line, but I guess that's just business!
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
    Interesting how relevant this revived thread is nearly a year on.

    What I would like you to consider for a moment it the fact that before, during and after the recession there are a number of constants. In particular there are roughly the same number of people able to produce, and roughly the same number of people needing to consume. They are able to produce roughly the same number of things and they need to consume roughly the same number of things. The only thing that changes is the availability of liquidity to facilitate the exchange of goods and services. At the outside limit, if we were able to barter, there could not be a recession. However, bartering cannot accommodate the complex transactions we need to run a modern economy. It cannot accommodate partial transactions, transactions made over a distance nor does it facilitate the accumulation of buying power in view of a large transaction.

    So we need currency. But currency does not create wealth. People do, and as I stated earlier, we're all still here. So where is the problem?

    There have been quite a few references to fiat currency on this thread, mostly in a negative light. However the problem is not fiat currency. Further, we don't have fiat currency. I wish we did. What we have is debt currency, and this debt currency is the root of the problem. The debt currency we have whether US, UK or any place else is created through debt by private banks (the Fed is a private bank). Very little currency is created by central banks. In the UK it is less than 6%. 94% of currency in circulation is created by private banks for their profit.

    Because all currency is created through debt, the sum of all interest accrued is rising constantly and must be paid back with borrowed money (since there is no other kind). More money must constantly be borrowed to pay the exponentially increasing interest bill until the debt market becomes saturated. At this point no matter how low the interest rates are set, no more money can come into circulation because everyone has borrowed to the hilt. What ensues is called a credit contraction. It is not a natural business cycle. It is the perverse and intended result of the debt money we use. When the credit contraction occurs, there must be defaults on loans. Houses, land and other forms of property must be seized to pay the loans. This is necessary to purge the interest pipeline and put permanent currency into circulation (a defaulted loan becomes permanent currency, a bizarre necessity in this system we live with).

    We are not going to get away from this system any time soon. Be as long as there are human beings, there is the potential to create wealth. And history has shown that when people want to do business they find a way. During the banking strike in Ireland people virtually created their own system of IOU's and trusted third parties (usually pub owners) which temporarily replaced the banks.

    So what can you do?
    1) Stay positive. Whenever you complain two things happen. First you program your own brain for failure. Second you poison everyone who hears you.
    2) Keep as much of your personal wealth as possible invested in hard assets such as real estate and precious metals. If possible, keep some of it offshore.
    3) If you invest in the stock market hold both long and short positions.
    4) Inasmuch as possible don't depend on a single market for your livelihood. Try to get business from more than one country.

    My $0.02 worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author robvegas626
    My business has grown since this economic downturn. I sell the top dating programs for men who don't want to spend all their money pursuing women -- and want women to pursue THEM instead. Check out my links below.

    I think that this downturn is causing millions of people to spend more time online. Some of them are broke and searching for jobs, but many other people are searching things on the internet because they HAVE money, but they're not spending it in restaurants, and bars, because they are spending more time at home to conserve money.

    Realize this..and market to them. Check my links, you'll see...
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's great folks are able to make a consistent income despite the problems in the economy
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