Some Questions for Offline Marketers

16 replies
Hey Warriors,

Got a couple questions for you about offline marketing...

1) When setting clients up with email auto-responders do you create a new list under your existing account or do you sign them up for a new account?

I have a couple clients setup under my Aweber account already and I wanted to hear your thoughts on this. The reason I created their list under my account was because I had included my email marketing service into a 1 year package that I sold them.

I could of signed them up for their own account using an Aweber affiliate link but I didn't want the $20 monthly fee to eat into my profits. That's $220 per year. So instead of getting $2k I'd really only be making $1,780 on the deal. Not to mention hosting. I did the same for hosting too. Just set them up under my reseller hosting account.


2) How do some of you justify charging $1k+ per month for on going services? I tried this with one client and they shot me down. I offered them a $2k setup fee and $1k for ongoing SEO and email marketing.

When the client asked why $1k per month they wanted to know exactly what I'd be doing for that $1k per month. That question caught me off guard and I stumbled my words. I said it was for ongoing SEO and email marketing. When in fact I know for sure it would have been a one time thing for me to set and forget.

How am I supposed to justify this high monthly cost to them? They pretty much bamboozled me into taking a one time payment of $2k for the whole job with no recurring payments.

I really want to start charging these folks on a monthly basis so I don't need to acquire new clients all the time. To me, asking for $1k per month is a little bit off a rip off when all I'm doing is building some backlinks and writing a few auto-responder messages.

Sure, I'll bring them traffic and sales every month but that work was pretty much set and forget.

Your thoughts please?

Aaron
#marketers #offline #questions
  • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
    Aaron -

    1. Get them their own aweber account. You don't want them screwing up your account and in the rare occasion things go south you'll have issues getting their list back to them, etc.

    2. Charge less than that - maybe $250 a month. But when you tell me $2k to get started and then 1k a month that makes it 14k for a year. I can do a lot more with yellow pages, etc for 14k. Charge 4k for the year.

    Good luck.

    Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

    1) When setting clients up with email auto-responders do you create a new list under your existing account or do you sign them up for a new account?
    You def. want them to have their own account, especially with Aweber, if something happens that causes you to lose your account, they end up becoming nightmare clients, or they do something with their list that ends up causing a headache...you don't want ALL the lists on that account to be affected...and looking at you at the source of the problem.

    That, and should you have to go your separate ways, this makes it easier to just stop the services vs you having to export/import their lists...that could become an issue if it then affects their business / sales.

    You don't want that hassle.

    Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

    2) How do some of you justify charging $1k+ per month for on going services? I tried this with one client and they shot me down. I offered them a $2k setup fee and $1k for ongoing SEO and email marketing.

    When the client asked why $1k per month they wanted to know exactly what I'd be doing for that $1k per month. That question caught me off guard and I stumbled my words. I said it was for ongoing SEO and email marketing. When in fact I know for sure it would have been a one time thing for me to set and forget.

    How am I supposed to justify this high monthly cost to them? They pretty much bamboozled me into taking a one time payment of $2k for the whole job with no recurring payments.

    I really want to start charging these folks on a monthly basis so I don't need to acquire new clients all the time. To me, asking for $1k per month is a little bit off a rip off when all I'm doing is building some backlinks and writing a few auto-responder messages.
    Sounds to me you didn't believe in what you were offering to them to begin with...so why should they?

    You also didn't really come across as being in a confident position (to me at least) when you couldn't justify why you were charging that expense, and they were able to pressure you into doing things their way.

    I charge $997 a month for my SEO package alone, and have never been questioned on it, I'm actually considering upping it to $1,497 soon...of course this will also depend on the budget/type-of-client you are dealing with.

    You aren't supposed to be charging them based on your cost / time required, charge based on the value / ROI you are providng.

    McDonald's cost for a hamburger is something like .10 - .20 cents...and they sell them for $5.

    You think the Mom + Pop shop down the street can compete with their food for better taste / quality? Sure...but McDonalds dominates in the branding/marketing arena because of the high profit margin...

    Dunno, depends on your business strategy / goals I guess...

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Moser
      Dexx,

      You charge $997 per month for any keyword? Maybe my mistake was telling the client that my SEO fees are based on a keyword by keyword basis. I told them that I could get them #1 postion for their keyword but I couldn't guarantee it would stick. And if they wanted to pay me the $1k per month I would make sure they stay there. So that's how I settled on a one time $2k fee.

      What do you tell them you'll do for the $997 per month?
      Signature



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      • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
        Here is a breakdown of what I charge offline clients on link below, it can range from $500 to $3,000+ per month. I am more expensive that most but deliver and this way, I don't need tons of clients to make a good living. Good luck !!!
        Consulting
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        Learn Digital, Internet and Social Media Marketing For Your Business
        Click here to learn more - Digital and Social Media Marketing Training Course

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        • Profile picture of the author Mya
          Here is exactly what I did for a landscaping company

          They already had an account with yellow pages and he pays yellow pages 3k/month for 1 keyword adwords campaign.

          I didn't know this when I started, I found out, to my shock later on.

          Here's what I charge him

          $3600 for me to even look at him
          I also showed him where he was online and that was no where.
          even with the yellow pages he was not getting seen at all, we even kept refreshing the pages until about the 10th time he finally showed up, and I tell you he was pissed to say the least.

          The $600 is for the blog/website for me to start with the seo.
          it needs to be a blog type website and I use wordpress.

          I finish the blog in a week and start with the SEO, well actually I'm always doing seo right through, I build the blog/website with seo always on my mind, every move I make.

          I charge him $1000/month to keep him up there, sure I don't need to use all this money because I have article writers and they write them for me and I pay for good backlinking. They don't need this information, they just know I'm slaving away and putting them on the top of google for 5 out of 10 keywords for sure. They don't know this but when I show them they get really excited and think they got more for what I charged. I usually do a 3 keyword start. I show them the KW's that are getting the hits and why they are important to their business.

          In actuality, if I did find I had a fight on my hands over a keyword then I do my own personal writing and backlinking, but because it is locally I usually don't find this problem.

          If he had any idea of what yellow pages are making off of him he'd freak I'm sure, he asked me to look into it and I might land a adwords job with him as well. who knows, only time will tell. And heck I wouldn't charge anything less than what yellow pages charged him. and it's all local so the daily adwords would never hit 3k/month. He would show up every time someone typed in that KW.

          Yellow pages piss me off they have something fishy going on over there, I think they group websites together and run through them all throughout the day, but they don't give any type of special care to any specific business n a specific KW. I pretty much just figured out their little trick about a week ago.

          After I figured out this, well you can imagine how I'm going to go about taking business away from yellow pages, they should have watched their footsteps. Any SEO person on the planet could figure them out a mile away.

          Also I asked how many people call him a day and he said he sometimes gets 5/day but that is off and on. I told him that if he's not showing up on google for his adwords and for his business organically than he needs to get this in place before the spring hits and some other "johnny come lately" business pops up on the 1st page and takes over everything.

          This is a really funny part:

          I told him that I could take my husbands truck and put MYA's Landscaping magnets on each side and wipe out all businesses in this city for landscaping, I would have so much business I wouldn't know what to do with it and I'm not even a landscaper... It was the push I think he needed for me to start business with him.

          As for hosting they all host with me through hostgator.
          they don't need to know it costs me only a certain amount a year.
          I buy the domain name which is also SEO ready.
          I don't use aweber and never would for local businesses. I use the plain old autoresponder that you get through hostgator. Believe me it is enough if your doing something locally.

          I will send out mails to the people who signed up for seasonal deals on the autoresponder, I don't want them to have access to my hostgator account. It might be time consuming, but this business is well worth it in the end. If you want show them aweber and see if it's something they would be interested in. Remember, if they go your route with the way you're collecting emails and leads (through hostgator) if they don't renew you have gained a year of landscaping leads, and they are now yours. Just don't mess up your hostgator account and you will be fine.

          At the end of the year, actually 3 months before the year is up we will renegotiate everything.

          There really is so much more but I'm sure you have got a handle on most of it from what I read from your post.

          Hope this helped,

          Mya Goodwill.


          PS: I only started doing this so I'm not an expert yet, I will be though, in a few months the way things are looking LOL

          One more note, I won't say the businesses I work for ever, thats a no-no, and well the city doesn't really matter, you can do this in any city, but if you take on lawyers, or that type of business you may have to work harder and charge a whole lot more than just $3600. In fact I wouldn't even touch lawyers because I would have to charge them 10k to start and chances of them showing up in google will be tough but doable. Too much of a headache if you asked me.

          Be confident,
          Mya
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          • Profile picture of the author duncanb
            Originally Posted by Mya View Post

            Here is exactly what I did for a landscaping company

            They already had an account with yellow pages and he pays yellow pages 3k/month for 1 keyword adwords campaign.

            I didn't know this when I started, I found out, to my shock later on.

            Here's what I charge him

            $3600 for me to even look at him
            I also showed him where he was online and that was no where.
            even with the yellow pages he was not getting seen at all, we even kept refreshing the pages until about the 10th time he finally showed up, and I tell you he was pissed to say the least.

            The $600 is for the blog/website for me to start with the seo.
            it needs to be a blog type website and I use wordpress.

            I finish the blog in a week and start with the SEO, well actually I'm always doing seo right through, I build the blog/website with seo always on my mind, every move I make.

            I charge him $1000/month to keep him up there, sure I don't need to use all this money because I have article writers and they write them for me and I pay for good backlinking. They don't need this information, they just know I'm slaving away and putting them on the top of google for 5 out of 10 keywords for sure. They don't know this but when I show them they get really excited and think they got more for what I charged. I usually do a 3 keyword start. I show them the KW's that are getting the hits and why they are important to their business.

            In actuality, if I did find I had a fight on my hands over a keyword then I do my own personal writing and backlinking, but because it is locally I usually don't find this problem.

            If he had any idea of what yellow pages are making off of him he'd freak I'm sure, he asked me to look into it and I might land a adwords job with him as well. who knows, only time will tell. And heck I wouldn't charge anything less than what yellow pages charged him. and it's all local so the daily adwords would never hit 3k/month. He would show up every time someone typed in that KW.

            Yellow pages piss me off they have something fishy going on over there, I think they group websites together and run through them all throughout the day, but they don't give any type of special care to any specific business n a specific KW. I pretty much just figured out their little trick about a week ago.

            After I figured out this, well you can imagine how I'm going to go about taking business away from yellow pages, they should have watched their footsteps. Any SEO person on the planet could figure them out a mile away.

            Also I asked how many people call him a day and he said he sometimes gets 5/day but that is off and on. I told him that if he's not showing up on google for his adwords and for his business organically than he needs to get this in place before the spring hits and some other "johnny come lately" business pops up on the 1st page and takes over everything.

            This is a really funny part:

            I told him that I could take my husbands truck and put MYA's Landscaping magnets on each side and wipe out all businesses in this city for landscaping, I would have so much business I wouldn't know what to do with it and I'm not even a landscaper... It was the push I think he needed for me to start business with him.

            As for hosting they all host with me through hostgator.
            they don't need to know it costs me only a certain amount a year.
            I buy the domain name which is also SEO ready.
            I don't use aweber and never would for local businesses. I use the plain old autoresponder that you get through hostgator. Believe me it is enough if your doing something locally.

            I will send out mails to the people who signed up for seasonal deals on the autoresponder, I don't want them to have access to my hostgator account. It might be time consuming, but this business is well worth it in the end. If you want show them aweber and see if it's something they would be interested in. Remember, if they go your route with the way you're collecting emails and leads (through hostgator) if they don't renew you have gained a year of landscaping leads, and they are now yours. Just don't mess up your hostgator account and you will be fine.

            At the end of the year, actually 3 months before the year is up we will renegotiate everything.

            There really is so much more but I'm sure you have got a handle on most of it from what I read from your post.

            Hope this helped,

            Mya Goodwill.


            PS: I only started doing this so I'm not an expert yet, I will be though, in a few months the way things are looking LOL

            One more note, I won't say the businesses I work for ever, thats a no-no, and well the city doesn't really matter, you can do this in any city, but if you take on lawyers, or that type of business you may have to work harder and charge a whole lot more than just $3600. In fact I wouldn't even touch lawyers because I would have to charge them 10k to start and chances of them showing up in google will be tough but doable. Too much of a headache if you asked me.

            Be confident,
            Mya
            Hey mya, great reply.

            What sort of growth has the business seen since you implemented the service?

            Duncanb
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            • Profile picture of the author miami
              Great Post Mya!

              The first thing to see is that confidence sells.

              Here is what we do...

              We ask prospects what their sales closing rate is and what their life time customer value is.

              If they don't know I just look at them like "You have to be kidding me!" Then I explain the importance of metrics. It makes us look like we know what we are talking about. (Well we do!)

              And if they know - (most don't) then we have a great metric to start with.

              We use the Instant Sales System for everything from autoresponders and contact management to squeeze and sales pages. We build a Semiologic blog using Silos after a extensive keyword research on Market Samurai.

              We show them where they are in a search (SEO for Firefox) and Samurai.

              Then we help them measure and convert leads...

              It looks like this for each keyword we target within the blog...

              1.Keyword research.
              a.Identify 3 high traffic, low competition keyword phrases
              2. Create Instant Sales System Account and create first domain. ($197, $30/month, $11 domain)
              3.Create initial content (conversion)
              a.One email capture form for visitor email
              b.One capture form incentive (free report)
              c.Four capture form auto responder emails
              d.One landing page (content to encourage primary action (phone call)
              e.Create analytics reports for base measurement (baseline search rankings, visitor traffic, conversion if any)
              4.Create visitor (traffic) (work performed monthly)
              a.1 article - submit to directory
              b.content for linking strategy
              c.Create 1 1-2 minute powerpoint video with audio and submit to 400 directories
              d.Manually post to forums and blogs as research indicates.
              5.Provide measurement on monthly basis and tweak campaign.

              We outsource almost everything.

              Tell you what - you sell the job -we'll do the work for you!

              hehe

              Miami
              Signature

              Always looking for PPV and affiliate mentor/masterminds... Let's trade stories!

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            • Profile picture of the author Mya
              Originally Posted by duncanb View Post

              Hey mya, great reply.

              What sort of growth has the business seen since you implemented the service?

              Duncanb
              Well, Of course I'm on the first page of google LOL, it was easy, but I'm not going to show him that till our next meeting. He's probably getting a lot of business and when we meet and I show him... he will put 2 & 2 together and think I'm a genius. Well I am...

              Mind you I did hit a couple of barriers and had to find solutions but that's all part of this business and I'm new to "local" so I'm quite happy with my results.

              Now I think I can get on top of google for the keyword "make money online" LOL joking... Nope not going to fight for that one quite yet
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              • Profile picture of the author spainops
                Mya

                Thanks for taking the time to post such a quality answer.

                Si
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  • Profile picture of the author duncanb
    Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post


    1) When setting clients up with email auto-responders do you create a new list under your existing account or do you sign them up for a new account?
    In theri own name of course! when you are designing a website for a client you will of course have the client buy the website so as that they will own their website (well this is the ethical thing to do). So when it comes to an AWEBER account this is no different. They own their lists achieved from the account.

    Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

    2) How do some of you justify charging $1k+ per month for on going services? I tried this with one client and they shot me down. I offered them a $2k setup fee and $1k for ongoing SEO and email marketing.
    If i carry out SEO of some form or carry out a service of some sort for say 3k and maintain this service for 1k p/m whilst the company makes 30k worth of sales recurring every month a result, then that means that the company is receiving excellent value for their money. I am of value to that company.

    You would be best targeting businesses which have a high profit margin on their prods/services offered though.
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  • Profile picture of the author T.R. McCarroll
    Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post


    1) When setting clients up with email auto-responders do you create a new list under your existing account or do you sign them up for a new account?
    Set up new account under their name but YOU pay the monthly fee for his/her Aweber monthly fee (out of your monthly maintenance fee)... how bad would it be to have your client's CC rejected or expire and Aweber close or suspend the squeeze page opt-in form ...yikes

    Thom
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Awesome Reply Mya, and the part about the Yellow Pages is so crucial!

    People need to keep in mind that some businesses are spending $3,000 - $5,000 PER MONTH just to have their ADVERTISEMENT on ONE PAGE of this giant book...something that they probably aren't tracking and probably aren't even testing different copy with.

    Keep that in mind when thinking of the value you can bring to them compared to that...

    ~Dexx
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Yep, Mya! did a great post.
    As said, they need their own account for everything, not just email. You need a quick and ethical exit strategy. Affiliate/reseller accounts are of course things that even if your agreement is terminated will still bring a little money.

    As to on going charges, That is a given. Things on the net every week. Does the client want everything you do outdated in 7 days? Granted most small business consultants got their degrees 2,3,5 years ago and haven't spent a dime to 'upgrade' info they learned 5 years ago. If that is what the client is looking for, don't take the client on.

    "How do some of you justify charging $1k+ per month for on going services? I tried this with one client and they shot me down."

    Time to leave. Tell them the results you deliver are not worth getting up in the morning for a one time 2K fee. Lol. If the presentation is done correctly (and it takes a few times and practice, so don't beat yourself up, but don't lower your price either), the monthly fee will be obvious. No client would expect someone to not charge a monthly fee. I suspect they were taking a shot. DO NOT cave. They will either back down or do not take on that client. They will be more trouble than they are worth. Always be in control of the meeting. Once you loose control of the meeting, it's over. If you still do the deal, they will question everything you do and make you justify it. You'll spend more time explaining why you should, than you will doing anything. Just not worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Irishman
    Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

    2) How do some of you justify charging $1k+ per month for on going services? I tried this with one client and they shot me down. I offered them a $2k setup fee and $1k for ongoing SEO and email marketing.

    When the client asked why $1k per month they wanted to know exactly what I'd be doing for that $1k per month. That question caught me off guard and I stumbled my words. I said it was for ongoing SEO and email marketing. When in fact I know for sure it would have been a one time thing for me to set and forget.

    How am I supposed to justify this high monthly cost to them? They pretty much bamboozled me into taking a one time payment of $2k for the whole job with no recurring payments.

    I really want to start charging these folks on a monthly basis so I don't need to acquire new clients all the time. To me, asking for $1k per month is a little bit off a rip off when all I'm doing is building some backlinks and writing a few auto-responder messages.

    Sure, I'll bring them traffic and sales every month but that work was pretty much set and forget.

    Your thoughts please?

    Aaron
    Hey Aaron,

    First let me tell you how much respect I have for you going out there and putting action behind your plan. Not many make it that far, and you're one tough conversation closer to streamlining your business. Sounds to me that you learned some really critical things in what you imply as almost failing. I would encourage you to squeeze every drop of education from that one experience and build against it.

    Regarding the question of how anyone justifies their price month over month... I'd ask you the same question. How do you justify that fee?

    Everything I've learned so far about this business really comes down to "what value am I bringing to this business owner?" Start thinking that way, and your marketing plan will identify itself. To me, selling a cookie cutter seo package doesn't make me a marketing consultant. Not that it's a bad thing to sell, just that being an internet marketing consultant to me, means that I build a customized marketing strategy based on competitive intelligence, and all my marketing knowledge to bring him/her the best return and market penetration.

    Listen to the business owner. Be consultative, and really aim at crushing their competition at every online touchpoint. Build trust by really trying to learn their market. It's relationships. If you just toss figures out there, not knowing what you'll even be doing for the business owner, you'll find more often than not, you'll be treated like a "vendor" if you do win the business, and less like a partner.

    I think Dexx said it... you have to believe you are providing value and know the actions you take will provide a competitive return, otherwise there comes a day when you have to answer for your fees.

    I know there are a ton of opinions on the amount issue, but I learned from getting fired by a client back when I first started this business that I needed to really provide value to business owners or else I shouldn't be taking their money.

    Again - keep at it. Define your offering (consultant or a task manager). If it's consultant, be consultative and draw on your IM knowledge to serve with authenticity. If they still don't want to pay for your offering, move on.

    Thanks for sharing your experience - best to you.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Aaron: Check your PM. I sent you something that will help a great deal.

    Edit: LOL damn my ADHD I just noticed this was an ancient thread... oh well you are probably making 10k/mo by now and the clients are sweating the justify why they are paying so LOW

    Any newbies who might be reading this: Just call up some local SEO sharks and see what they charge for mediocre SEO and web service, then you should have no problem justifying anything (I did it, got quotes from 3000 to 4700 for just setting up a basic web site and some SEO)
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  • Profile picture of the author peter.max
    dremora

    I agree. Just phone up of get a friend with a business to phone up and see what consultants are charging. I also get their marketing literature and then look at how to differentiate my offer with some customer service elements (personal touch) elements that they don't have in
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