What You Read On Here Is NOT Gospel!

56 replies
I know, I know. This thread has already been done before many times, but I feel it's time to bring it up again.

Too often I see people passing across their opinions as fact. Here is a most recent example. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...x-problem.html

I do not have a problem with the person who started that thread, it's simply the most recent example of the problem I keep seeing so if the OP of that thread reads this, don't take it personally. I just needed it to demonstrate my point.

The person in that thread offered some advice that was incorrect. As a result, a newbie came along, read the post and thanked the person for the great new knowledge they had learned.

Now this definitely poses a problem. This poor newbie is now going to act on things he has learned to be correct, when in actual fact they are far from the truth.

This also creates an effect where the new person who has learned this misinformation will then go and tell someone else, who will then tell someone else and before you know it people will be spreading misinformation throughout many threads on the forum. ("duplicate content penalty", anyone?)

This goes on way too often so I would like to offer two bits of advice.

1. If you're starting a thread or responding to a thread posting advice, make sure that what you're stating is true, is, in fact, true. If it's simply you're opinion then say so! Use the words, "in my opinion".

2. Whenever you read anything in a thread on here, do not take that advice as gospel. Always do further research and your own testing to determine what you've read is correct. It's imperative you do not blindly believe something simply because you read it on a forum.

If all members learned to follow the two bits of advice above everyone would be much better off and it would help stop the continual spread of misinformation that is becoming prevalent through the forum.

/rant.
#gospel #read
  • Profile picture of the author wiley1
    Well said.

    Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticlePrince
    We all make mistakes, no matter how much experience we have. It just compounds it if there are people taking our advice. Great post!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr.Sinister
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      • Profile picture of the author David
        Originally Posted by Mr.Sinister View Post

        In my opinion...
        might be...
        from my perspective...
        I wonder if...
        as it may be...
        can be..
        it's conceivable..
        could be...
        imaginably...
        perchance...
        perhaps...

        All these words allow for the opinions of others to be expressed w/o you encroaching on the stating facts w/o supporting evidence, thus making your words generally more accepted as well.

        Good advice OP, I agree 100%.

        -_- Mr.Sinister
        I often use:

        IMNSOHO

        in my not so humble opinion

        unless I really dunno for sure... not knowing for sure is why I've been coming to this forum for almost 10 years (join date is not from beginning, it's from 1st Host4Profit site )
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Originally Posted by David View Post

          IMNSOHO

          in my not so humble opinion
          I've glad you explained that. If I saw you use that without an explanation of what it means I'd think you were talking about some kind of IM gas station LOL.

          I think I'll stick to a more expressive expression like "in my not so humble opinion"

          Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Shoaib
    It's just like any other information you come across in life... you always have to take it with a grain of salt.

    In my opinion, people give such high worthiness to information found in this and other online forums, that they're willing to bet their future on it, without doing their own DD!
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  • Profile picture of the author BenBrandes
    Yes that is a very important point. I've seen exactly the same thing happen.

    In my opinion there are two reasons it happens...

    1. People who state the claims truly believe it and don't think they need to hint it may be wrong by saying in my opinion.
    2. They want to convey themselves as a guru and some people do that by stating what they believe is "true".

    Either way, Pat hit the nail on the head when he said "Always do further research and your own testing to determine what you've read is correct."
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  • Profile picture of the author Shoaib
    Another thing I would like to say is, just because someone has 4 figure post count, does not automatically mean that they know what they are talking about.

    Vice versa, just because someone has a low post count, does not automatically mean that they're a moron.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Amen Brother Jackson ...

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    mis information exists everywhere it seems, but what do you do ? if you call it out you run the risk of a slap fight, so in many cases you just walk on by.
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      mis information exists everywhere it seems, but what do you do ? if you call it out you run the risk of a slap fight, so in many cases you just walk on by.
      You just don't be mean about it when you're calling them out. You simply explain to them that they're wrong and tell them why.

      Just walking on by is what causes the problems to begin with!
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by Pat Jackson View Post

        You just don't be mean about it when you're calling them out. You simply explain to them that they're wrong and tell them why.

        Just walking on by is what causes the problems to begin with!
        mate if those catters could play football there would not be any problems, but when pansy boys run around kicking points those crows are going to be pecking holes in the cats backsides and kicking goals.

        ? is that what you mean ?
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        • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
          Round 4, 2009 - Geelong 21.8 - 134 def. Adelaide 13.8 - 86
          Round 18, 2009 - Geelong 14.9 - 93 def. Adelaide 13.13 - 91

          You mean those Crows?

          Seriously, though, it's not that difficult to correct someone where they're wrong without belittling them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Pat,

          It's not just people unwittingly spouting incorrect information.

          There are people who knowingly, let's say, "mislead" others or veil their real intentions.

          One of the most important habits you have to develop (in my opinion ) is to always ask yourself, "What does this person gain by saying this?"

          Slightly off topic, but you also have to question people who complain about things like "Google/Twitter/Facebook zapped my account".

          Of course they did - you were spamming or using blackhat software.

          What the OPs are really asking is "Google caught me being naughty - does anybody know another way to game the system?"

          Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author bretski
    The post that you used as an example points to TWO different issues. Yeah, there is a lot of info on this forum and some of it is just incorrect information, fables, old wives tales, urban legends and the like. It's find to have opinions and to be able to state them or say "do what you want but this is my belief... that tons of crap backlinks will get you sandboxed" or whatever...

    The other is that there seems to be more and more people using the general marketing forum to either blatantly do research for a WSO or to promote their WSO or website. Post a new thread asking for help in making money as fast as possible and then taking the info from that thread and creating a WSO. The worst is the post that you referred to in my honest opinion...that post couldn't be more of a sales page!!! WTF! Do I have a problem with it? You bet your bippy!

    What's my suggestion? No signatures and maybe a moratorium on WSOs for a period of time. Sound harsh? I make no apologies. This forum is turning into crap and a waste of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      Originally Posted by bretski View Post

      The post that you used as an example points to TWO different issues. Yeah, there is a lot of info on this forum and some of it is just incorrect information, fables, old wives tales, urban legends and the like. It's find to have opinions and to be able to state them or say "do what you want but this is my belief... that tons of crap backlinks will get you sandboxed" or whatever...

      The other is that there seems to be more and more people using the general marketing forum to either blatantly do research for a WSO or to promote their WSO or website. Post a new thread asking for help in making money as fast as possible and then taking the info from that thread and creating a WSO. The worst is the post that you referred to in my honest opinion...that post couldn't be more of a sales page!!! WTF! Do I have a problem with it? You bet your bippy!

      What's my suggestion? No signatures and maybe a moratorium on WSOs for a period of time. Sound harsh? I make no apologies. This forum is turning into crap and a waste of time.
      Yeah, those types of things happen all the time but they're usually taken care of pretty quickly.

      Maybe a rule for no signatures for the first 5 posts of any given thread? That'd probably help weed out a lot of those types of threads.

      As for the WSO issue, it would pretty hard to monitor that. The second point of my original post in this thread can also be applied to WSO's.

      Always do your due diligence when buying a WSO. I won't buy a WSO until I've seen real legitimate reviews from respected Warriors who have already bought, or if it's respected Warriors WSO.
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    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Originally Posted by bretski View Post

      ... This forum is turning into crap and a waste of time.
      Speaking of "stating something as fact". The above statement clearly is not true. What "appears" to have happened, in my opinion, is that the wise Warriors have moved on to greener pastures - namely, the War Room, the WSO and most likely to put more energy into growing their businesses - or have made so much money that they are semi-retired and spending more time doing "fun" stuff. I do not see nearly as many 1000s-posters now as I did 4 years ago.

      That doesn't necessarily mean the value here is "crap".

      Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    Warrior Forum is also a huge commercial billboard for people making their money in the 'Make Money Online' niche.

    Now, that demands visibility.

    Warrior Forum is awesome, but a lot of it is, pardon my french, blatant self promoting.

    Work more, read less.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Amen to that. Just in the last week I caught about two dozen threads / posts where someone was giving inaccurate advice, 4 of which violated another website's Terms Of Service / Use.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Russ Emrick
    Great post - thank you. It is exhausting sorting the opinions and anecdotes masquerading as factual information.

    Where facts are missing opinions reign.

    Measurement ends argument.

    My favorite posts start with: "I don't know anything about..." or "I've never done this but..." OMG - they then go on and bless us with their wisdom, usually pulled straight out of their aspirations. The unmarried giving married advice, the childless giving parents advice, the non-salesperson telling me how to sell, and the paycheck to paycheck employee telling me how to run the business. It goes on forever.

    Today I read a good thread here on Adwords. At least three people started by saying "I've never done it" or "I haven't made any money from it" but then continued on.

    However at least we were warned that we were getting brain farts instead of tablets from the mountain. As Twain said, what causes us the most harm isn't what we don't know but rather what we know that just ain't true. As others said, take everything here with a grain of salt - who says something is as if not more important than what is being said.

    Good luck...Russ
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Russ Emrick View Post

      ............My favorite posts start with: "I don't know anything about..." or "I've never done this but..." OMG - they then go on and bless us with their wisdom, usually pulled straight out of their aspirations. The unmarried giving married advice, the childless giving parents advice, the non-salesperson telling me how to sell, and the paycheck to paycheck employee telling me how to run the business. It goes on forever.

      Today I read a good thread here on Adwords. At least three people started by saying "I've never done it" or "I haven't made any money from it" but then continued on........
      As the Fonz would say, "Exactamundo!". Like the product reviews that go something like this:

      "I don't own the product but all these types from the g u r u s are scams"

      "This product / service is awesome!" (But they don't own it or use it).

      I've got a couple of buddies who like giving me advice on how to run my online business and sometimes they've some good ideas, but usually they don't because they haven't an inkling of what I do.

      Also everyone has marketer's bias. PPC people rave about PPC. SEO people rave about SEO, those that do both rave about both, etc. Some people focus on affiliate marketing, some people have their own products, some only do CPA, while others have a hybrid. Shoot, I have my own marketing biases.....big time because there's no way anyone can master all the aspects of marketing, sales, and business.

      That's just my opinion btw.....

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Too many people believe what others tell them because it makes them feel better or it justifies a failure and gives them an excuse.

    Listen, if you want the real data, the real honest facts about anything, then just turn on your TV, read a newspaper or visit wikipedia :-)

    I once read on here someone saying "You have to work hard, learn the ropes, put in the time, test and never give up!" to make any money.

    Hogwash!!!

    That's not what the lady on Desperate Housewives said last night.

    Anyway, I'm off back to the sofa to soak up some more facts from my TV.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Certainly don't take anything some fool named Dogscout says


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    • Profile picture of the author RMC
      Man, in practice I'm shocked how much disinformation flows around here. Most of it related to the things people think annoys them and you should never do...but actually work to the contrary.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        You are right, of course - yet not everyone holds the same views or does things the same way. You can always say "I disagree with XXX because..."
        yet you didn't do that in the thread you referenced. Thankfully, others did.

        The idea that anyone can go to any forum and read only 100% accurate information is not realistic. Some days seems like half the people starting threads just got their "news" from cnn, from an email received or from a "guruhoo" blog.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Sometimes the misinformed will protest about this act themselves and yet they too will continue to spread their own lack of research on certain subjects just as if it were the gospel truth.

    Another example

    ...before you know it people will be spreading misinformation throughout many threads on the forum. ("duplicate content penalty", anyone?)
    This poster has included this bit insinuating that there is no so called "duplicate content penalty" when in fact, when one goes to the horses mouth (in this case Google), we find:

    Duplicate content - Webmaster Tools Help

    Duplicate content generally refers to substantive blocks of content within or across domains that either completely match other content or are appreciably similar. Mostly, this is not deceptive in origin.
    So we now know that Google does use a term "duplicate content" and it is quite different from "syndication". They, Google, understand there is a difference between "duplicate content" and "syndication" but is there a penalty for this?

    Let's read the Google descriptive page itself to see if the answer is there.

    Ah yes, a little further down we find this:

    In the rare cases in which Google perceives that duplicate content may be shown with intent to manipulate our rankings and deceive our users, we'll also make appropriate adjustments in the indexing and ranking of the sites involved. As a result, the ranking of the site may suffer, or the site might be removed entirely from the Google index, in which case it will no longer appear in search results.
    Now we can see that Google has never really used the word "penalty" so I suppose technically that there is in fact no "duplicate content penalty" but is it now safe to say that there could be negative consequences in some cases for using "duplicate content"?

    Of course.

    So to appease those hardened semantically challenged, we should remind folks any time we see someone state that there is no "duplicate content penalty" while that is true, there is a "duplicate content negative handling of your website" that could occur.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Matt,

      Will you stop being so sensible?

      There's no marketing "sizzle" in sensible!

      Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      Originally Posted by Matt Maiden View Post

      This poster has included this bit insinuating that there is no so called "duplicate content penalty"
      That's not what I was insinuating at all.

      I was simply referencing to the threads that get started weekly around here where someone comes in asking about duplicate content and they get all kinds of ridiculous answers like, "You can't submit the same article to two different directories" and other nonsense like that.

      All of those sort of responses stem from the misinformation that is passed around.
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
        Originally Posted by Pat Jackson View Post

        That's not what I was insinuating at all.
        Sorry, my mistake. You can see how easily things can be misinterpreted.

        There are many reasons for statements, opinions and so on to fall through the cracks and be passed around which goes to show that we need to have more defined points.

        I think that it should be in everyone's self interest to do a little research before acting on any information they read or hear.

        Even doctors suggest that we get a second opinion so that we have at least attempted to get a clearer understanding.

        Thank you for the reminder.

        Matt
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        • Profile picture of the author George Wright
          Originally Posted by Matt Maiden View Post


          Even doctors suggest that we get a second opinion so that we have at least attempted to get a clearer understanding.
          Matt,

          With all due respect, I tried that with less than stellar results. My Doctor told me I was too fat. I told him I wanted a second opinion and he said, OK, you're too ugly.

          George Wright
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          • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
            Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

            Matt,

            With all due respect, I tried that with less than stellar results. My Doctor told me I was too fat. I told him I wanted a second opinion and he said, OK, you're too ugly.

            George Wright
            Hey George, you want a third opinion?

            RoD
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Duplicate content generally refers to substantive blocks of content within or across domains that either completely match other content or are appreciably similar. Mostly, this is not deceptive in origin.
              That's a good example of how one person sees a fact different than another.

              A couple years ago Cutts and many others pointed out the problem with interpreting that to mean "don't put an article anymore more than once" is "with or across domains" - and pointed out that the term meant replicating pages on a site or having multiple sites that were identical.

              There is more to it than that, of course, but for the new marketer trying to write articles - he doesn't get it. And truly, there is NO problem with writing your article and putting it on your site and submitting that same article to directories - and that's usually the focus of the question here.

              When I tell people "don't worry about duplicate content when you writing your own articles" - I'm NOT saying "I think" or "my opinion". I'm saying that after writing tons of articles and content for ten years - that's what I've found to be true. I also know people who were hit hard by google with duplicate content PENALTY a few years ago. I know some who were making thousands (5 figures) with adsense that lost adsense accounts - now that was a penalty!

              Now - when we get into types of indexing, etc. that's something else but the average newbie here just wants to know if he has to rewrite every article many times. No, he doesn't. He really doesn't.

              kay
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Now that I've had my fun (sorry for the stupid joke, but that was a great
                movie) here is what I have learned in 7 years of marketing online.

                Nothing is fact.

                Other than specific TOS of a site, such as EZA when they state that they
                will not accept articles on PLR. That is a fact.

                Other than things of that nature, nothing in marketing is fact.

                Why?

                Because things change...constantly.

                Plus, what works for one person may not necessarily work for another
                person.

                At the very least, there is no guarantee that it will work.

                The only facts that I know are facts for me are the ones that I personally
                see work for me.

                Anybody who comes to me and says, "Do this and I guarantee you that
                you'll (fill in the blanks)" I run as far away from as fast as possible.

                Now, having said that, if people can back up things with valid statistics
                (not contrived and manipulated) then you can at most say, "You have
                a decent chance of having so and so work for you provided..." and so on.

                But actual law?

                Forget it! That animal doesn't exist unless it is actual law.
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              • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                When I tell people "don't worry about duplicate content when you writing your own articles" - I'm NOT saying "I think" or "my opinion". I'm saying that after writing tons of articles and content for ten years - that's what I've found to be true. I also know people who were hit hard by google with duplicate content PENALTY a few years ago.
                Right Kay,

                I think we need to start a section on the forum where we can all start to define some of these terms better.

                Writing articles and submitting them all over the web is "syndication". Writing articles and repeating them over and over on the same page is duplicate content.

                I read posts here all of the time where people say that there is no penalty for duplicate content but then go on to give examples of syndication as a form of support for their statement about duplicate content.

                Also, we have three different types of article, or content "rewriting" that I think needs to be addressed as well.

                We have rewriting by hand without any software help. Rewriting with the help of software and rewriting by placing an article into a software program that rewrites without human involvement.

                Many people use the term "spinning" to refer to any or all of the above and while technically true that rewriting is a form of "spinning" customers would like to know which of the three types of rewriting they are getting.

                Just some examples of where our in-house terminology is creating conflict.

                Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygunn
    I assume everyone understands when they read something I've written, it is my opinion, and assume everything I read is someone's opinion.

    If I am stating something based on personal experience, and I feel it is something that would be challenged, I'll throw in some background information.

    If I have a fact, I generally state where the fact comes from, for instance 'Google's terms and conditions state "yada yada"'.

    Is this a backwards way of thinking?

    If I were to put an 'In my Opinion' in front of each statement, I would be using that phrase dozens of times each day and in almost everything I write.
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  • Profile picture of the author remotedb
    I think I can offer some advice here. Although I'm still fairly new to IM and very new to this site, I come to this arena with an extensive background in political blogging. In order to survive in that world, we have to adopt certain journalistic standards. It might be a good idea here.

    If you are stating anything other than absolute common knowledge as fact, it's best to back it up with sourcing. We usually do that by including a link to a credible source of the information. For example if Mathew Cutts does a video stating that Google is doing something or other, don't just state that Google is doing this, drop in a link to that video.

    If the FTC or the IRS comes out with a new rule, don't just state it because you happen to be aware of it, drop in a link to the actual government document or to a professionally published news article from a highly credible source, say from CNN, or the NY Times or something along those lines.

    It only takes a few seconds at a Google prompt and what this ultimately does is it allows us all to judge the credibility of the writer and make informed choices.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
      Originally Posted by remotedb View Post


      I think I can offer some advice here. Although I'm still fairly new to IM and very new to this site, I come to this arena with an extensive background in political blogging....

      I'm sorry, but trying to suggest that we can learn some kind of factual guidance from anything connected to politics, makes me want to vomit!

      Absolutely no offense meant to you, but what a load of tosh.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        This is a forum. I take everything as opinion unless it's stated with accompanying proof. Even then I test for myself to see if my business accepts the same proof as someone else's.
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
          Banned
          I can assure I won't be making a habit out of adding "in my opinion" to my posts. You can do that yourself without me doing it for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sandy Cormack
          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          This is a forum. I take everything as opinion unless it's stated with accompanying proof. Even then I test for myself to see if my business accepts the same proof as someone else's.
          I take everything I read here as opinion, or in some cases 'field data.' Interesting stuff that happened to them, that I might find useful.

          But if pay someone for an ebook, the stuff in the ebook had better be fact.
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      • Profile picture of the author remotedb
        Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

        I'm sorry, but trying to suggest that we can learn some kind of factual guidance from anything connected to politics, makes me want to vomit!

        Absolutely no offense meant to you, but what a load of tosh.
        I think you need to re-read before you spout. It has nothing to do with politics it is about standard journalistic practice.

        It is precisely because there is a great deal of opinion, demogogary, and mistrust of political writing of all kinds that it becomes essential to document said writings with unimpeachable sourcing.

        The method by which the successful blogger does this is in and of itself not in any way related to politics, it is an adoption of internationally recognized journalistic standards and practices. A well run news outlet will not allow it's writers and reporters to publish opinion as fact, and won't allow them to publish it at all unless clearly labelled as an "Op-Ed".

        They will demand well documented sourcing, usually from multiple sources. Note, I am referring to well run news outlets, not super market tabloids or agenda based cable news organizations.

        I happen to have learned these practices while working in politics, but the methods in and of themselves have nothing to do with politics per se.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    In the thread you refer to, the OP definitely had an agenda, that agenda being to direct people to his Backlinking service in his signature. He was called out pretty quickly about his "theories." The entire post was designed to be a sales pitch rather than a really informative post.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    There is an old saying "believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see'
    or as my dad always said better for people to think your a fool and say nothing then to open your mouth and prove them right

    -WD
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    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Another example of terminology and individual definitions creating confusion is "squeeze pages" "landing pages" and "opt-in pages".

    When I started out on the net a landing page was your front or "home page". This was where people landed after clicking through to your site.

    An opt-in page was a page with an opt-in form.

    A squeeze page was a page that was "squeezed" between a front page and the page the visitor was trying to get to.

    You could offer a freebie and when the visitor clicked to the download page there in between or "squeezed" was another unexpected page that usually had an opt-in form on it. We also said it was a page that squeezed more information out of the visitor.

    This, I believe is why people starting calling opt-in pages squeeze pages but a squeeze page could have a "one time offer" OTO instead of an opt-in on the squeeze page. Therefore, the squeeze page was not an opt-in.

    This resulted in a big discussion once between me and another fellow a while back.

    If we had both been using the same definitions for the terms we were using it would have a saved a lot of time and trouble.
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  • Profile picture of the author -Jericho-
    People are always spouting off as if they are an authority and it leads to so much mis-information.

    I was curious to see what the thread was about but it appears to have been taken down.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Should I take your post as Gospel?

      J/K
      No, you should go and test what I said and then make up your own mind.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Bretski,
        This forum is turning into crap and a waste of time.
        You are free to leave at any time.

        If you spot someone advocating a technique that violates the TOS of another site, report it. It will be looked at and handled appropriately.

        Beyond that, it has pretty much always been the practice here to let members correct misinformation. There are a few good reasons for that.

        1. None of the mods know every field, so it's not appropriate for us to delete things in areas with which we're not familiar.

        2. It serves everyone better if there's discussion and data, rather than opinions and suggestions simply being removed.

        3. If the moderators put themselves up as the final say on what's accurate, that creates a trap. We miss something, and people assume it's right.

        4. Public correction weeds out the people who want to learn, and exposes the trolls who are deliberately spreading nonsense out of a sense of malice. Yes, there are plenty of those. Even in the WSO section.

        5. There have been many instances in which what looked like bad info was simply poorly explained.

        6. Sometimes the best threads are the ones that started with BS, and lead to correction and useful techniques.

        7. We ain't got the time. Literally. There isn't the time in a day, even if we did know enough about everything to get it all right. Which we don't.

        If someone breaks the rules, report them.

        If someone says something that's incorrect, correct them.


        This ain't rocket science, bubelah.


        Paul
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        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          exposes the trolls who are deliberately spreading nonsense out of a sense of malice. Yes, there are plenty of those. Even in the WSO section.
          I realize it's bad form to follow up your own post, but it strikes me that this could use a bit more explaining.

          Yes, I am saying that there are people selling wildly wrong information as WSOs - deliberately. This is not speculation, and it's not me assuming anything. Unless you count my assuming that someone means it when, on another board, they say they're going to come here and sell something that's wrong and make a "sh_tload of money off the idiots at WF."

          You know who they're talking about? All you people who buy the "$XY,000 a [Day|Week|Month], Guaranteed!" WSOs.

          Yeah. That's stupid. And they're laughing at you the whole time they're spending your money. Because you'll believe whatever someone tells you, as long as it fits with your dreams of instant and effortless income.

          Don't be stupid.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author kswr123
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


            You know who they're talking about? All you people who buy the ",000 a [Day|Week|Month], Guaranteed!" WSOs.

            Don't be stupid.


            Paul
            To follow on (even though Paul is one HARD act to follow ) - never go for anything that's guaranteed - the longer the disclaimer and the more words such as guaranteed, in your sleep, effortlessly etc. that you see, the further you should run.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    The post you referred to appears to have been deleted, so I have no idea what it was about other than it was apparently a self-promotional ploy. Even so...

    Originally Posted by Pat Jackson View Post

    2. Whenever you read anything in a thread on here, do not take that advice as gospel. Always do further research and your own testing to determine what you've read is correct. It's imperative you do not blindly believe something simply because you read it on a forum.
    That's the most important thing a person can take away from this thread. Look, this forum, and the whole internet, is filled with misinformation -- and yes, that is my opinion. The point is, each person has to be responsible for what they choose to believe.

    It would be nice if each person who publishes information only published "true facts" but people can't even agree on what the facts are in many instances. Asking people to self-label their own comments as opinion is not the answer. In the first place, many times when people believe something they already consider what they believe to be a fact, that's why they believe it, so they have no reason to think their opinion is not factual. A lot of people don't think any deeper than that.

    Secondly, if Joe Schmoe is in the habit of prefacing comments with "in my opinion" as suggested, that can create a false sense of security that what he doesn't label as opinion is indeed fact, when it may not be.

    To me, asking people to label comments as opinion is a bass-ackwards way of lessening or removing the responsibility for what a person chooses to believe from the individual making that choice.

    Asking people to frame their comments in a certain way is nothing less than an attempt to implement voluntary censorship according to your opinion about what is best. I don't know about you, but I've never liked being told what I can and can't say or how I should say it. I served my country to protect our rights, which includes freedom of speech, and I'm not about to relinquish that right no matter how well-meaning the intent.

    And with that, I'm not saying people don't have a responsibility to post accurate information, but if they don't they surely are subject to being corrected, I'm just saying the responsibility for what you believe is yours and yours alone. No amount of rules or suggestions can legislate away individual responsibility. I would go so far as to say you don't own your life until you accept full responsibility for everything you believe, do, and say, and for all the outcomes you experience.

    It's laudable that you want to protect others from themselves. I applaud you for that and for your post. I just think it's best handled by educating them, as you have just done, than by placing the onus on those making comments. Those whose intent is to deceive are the ones we most need to watch for, and they aren't going to cooperate, that's why education serves best.

    Originally Posted by Russ Emrick View Post

    My favorite posts start with: "I don't know anything about..." or "I've never done this but..." OMG - they then go on and bless us with their wisdom, usually pulled straight out of their aspirations. The unmarried giving married advice, the childless giving parents advice, the non-salesperson telling me how to sell, and the paycheck to paycheck employee telling me how to run the business. It goes on forever.
    I get your point, but because I've never jumped off a cliff without a parachute doesn't mean I'm not qualified to tell someone they could get hurt doing it. Just because I've never tried crack cocaine doesn't mean I'm unqualified to tell others about the devastation it causes. Sometimes those not experienced in a given situation can give better advice than someone who is or has been involved because they can offer an entirely different perspective, one unencumbered by emotional content and attachment to outcomes.

    Using your own example, a conscientious employee can often tell an employer things the employer doesn't know about his business that could help the owner run the business better. Why? Because the employee is in the trenches, whereas the owner is often far removed from the trenches. In fact, that's why some businesses have suggestion boxes to collect ideas, and offer monetary rewards to employees who offer useful suggestions.

    Should we consider the source? Yes indeed, in all cases. But to dismiss suggestions or advice based solely on the source is short-sighted -- in my opinion.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    In my opinion, you should never mistake enthusiasm for wisdom.

    In my opinion, it's wise to add "in my opinion" to things other people tell you... whether or not they're enthusiastic.

    In my opinion, even if someone else's advice sounds good, you're responsible for your own decision about whether you use or implement it.

    In my opinion, if you don't see a written guarantee, don't assume there's a hidden one.

    In my opinion, most people mean well most of the time, but can sometimes get caught up in how they feel about something. It's easy to assume that a strong feeling proves that ideas are right. And some people are only out to scam whoever they can for whatever short-term gains they can get away with.

    The way to tell them apart is to ask about how they want to be of service, helping other people benefit ethically. A sincere person will welcome the opportunity to express their values. While those afraid of their values being exposed will try to make you feel somehow ashamed that you asked the question!

    In my opinion, an enthusiastic attitude is usually helpful.
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  • Profile picture of the author kswr123
    In my opinion, you should never mistake enthusiasm for wisdom.
    say "mr enthusiastik"

    Just noticing something funny - but you do have a good point there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
      Originally Posted by Mubarak Waseem View Post

      say "mr enthusiastik"

      Just noticing something funny - but you do have a good point there.
      Thanks for noticing. I figured that even if people didn't get any inspiration from my post, might as well enjoy a chuckle.
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    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      It has been said here before, you cannot trust everything you read on the Internet. There is a lot of misinformation and true crap out there. How you tell the good from the bad is simply to do your own research through reliable sources.

      If you read something here on the WF, use it to conduct more research of your own. You never know... the info here just might be the best.

      Sylvia
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