Is This Ethical, or They Are Just Cheating on Their Poor Customers??

by A Bary
58 replies
I am talking about the exit pop ups with discount offer for the same product.

I was on the sales page of a newly launched product, I was not interested , so I closed the browser, to get an exit pop up for $10 off.

I closed again, to only get another offer for $20 off!!

The 2 discount offers were for the same exact product being sold for the original price, not for a light version or a smaller package..

I just thought " is this ethical?"

Am I been rewarded for being skeptical, while others having good intentions towards the offer and got sold on the first page are being punished by paying a higher price for the same product?

When these exit pop discount are offered to a lighter version it's at least justified, but for the same product :confused::confused::confused:

I just believe this isn't a good practice
#cheating #customers #ethical #poor
  • Profile picture of the author bobcath
    Ethics is always a controversial subject. You could look on the popups as instant research ie what is the potential customer willing to pay. Personally I dont use them and have a fixed price for everything I sell. That said, if the product delivers true value even at the first price you see then surely you have still gained something. If you get it cheaper then in some cases the product may be undervalued from the sellers perspective.

    The lesson for buyers must be never take the first price you are offered for anything, always shop around (ie always click off the web page in this case!).

    Bobby
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    ethical, in my eyes... annoying as hell though. Got sucked into one with 5 pop-ups before releasing the page. (thought I as gonna have to taskmaster it).

    It is a sales persons 'duty' to obtain the highest price for a product. It is also their duty to not lose a sale if the profit is acceptable. I view these pop-ups as a car salesman's 'Let me check with my manager' in digital form. Trouble is, anyone that runs into one, knows to check and see if the item they want to buy is doing that. They were 1st rare, now they are everywhere. Eventually their effectiveness will go so low only people that do not test will use them. (Then of course they will become popular again, Lol.)
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I'm not going to get into the ethics of these "sale saver" scripts. My opinion on them isn't going to change anything...

      Unless you are only going to offer one product to this person, ever, I do believe they are bad business.

      First, if or when the buyers who paid full price find out about the discount, nothing good can happen. Requests for rebates, refunds, ill will and loss of trust are the obvious consequences. You would have to balance that and the potential loss of backend sales against the sales the script "saved" by offering discounts.

      Second, it trains your buyers to expect discounts. Whether they bought an earlier item at a discount or simply experienced the sale saver, they know you're willing to settle for less. So next time, they know that you'll likely offer one or more discounts if they try to leave the page. If you are trying to build a funnel, you could get into a spiral of larger and larger discounts to "save" sales you might have had at full price.

      Again, you have to weigh for yourself whether the short term gain of the discounted sale outweighs the potential lifetime value of a customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't think ethics have anything to do with exit pops. Just another way to sell. It's like having a sale, but only for those who leave without buying. Nothing really wrong with that except that it might piss off your customers who paid full price and for your next launch, your customers will leave the page to get a discount.
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    I don't think it's unethical, but I think that it shows you are spineless with your price. When I was a real estate agent, they taught us NEVER to give up our commission or be willing to discount it. We called it "whoring yourself out." I think the same applies in the IM world. Why would I want to offer a discount to someone who doesn't want the product anyway? If it's just that they can't afford it, then they can come back later. I think it makes people look like they are begging and desperate. That's my take on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Ethics has nothing to do with it. Behind every exit popup is a business and a business isn't ethical or non-ethical, it is simply an entity created to make money. An exit popup is simply one additional way to do that.

    Just my opin.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    if it's in the IM area it could go as far as they are loosing money with this tactic not making money.

    Yep i will buy that but let me log out first to see if i can grab a cheaper price ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    It's like looking at a car in the showroom, deciding you don't want it, and the salesman is following you out the door shouting " $28,000, ok $25,000, would ya buy for $$21,000?"
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  • Profile picture of the author lisag
    I agree that ethics do not play a role. However, I think, trust and fairness does.

    Personally, I don't like this method of getting sales. Recently I decided not to buy a product because of the price, and I encountered a "Wait - here's a better price" popup when I left the site. I closed it and bought a competing product elsewhere.

    I don't trust the guy to be straight with me on other issues if he can't be straight with me on pricing.

    I know -- it's different in the air breathing world. A salesperson might knock some money off if you walk away and say I'm not interested, but at least there was some interaction and rapport building going on before the discount was offered. I feel it's more in "good faith" when it happens in person.
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by lisag View Post

      I agree that ethics do not play a role. However, I think, trust and fairness does.

      Personally, I don't like this method of getting sales. Recently I decided not to buy a product because of the price, and I encountered a "Wait - here's a better price" popup when I left the site. I closed it and bought a competing product elsewhere.

      I don't trust the guy to be straight with me on other issues if he can't be straight with me on pricing.

      I know -- it's different in the air breathing world. A salesperson might knock some money off if you walk away and say I'm not interested, but at least there was some interaction and rapport building going on before the discount was offered. I feel it's more in "good faith" when it happens in person.
      I agree, and with respect, I don't see the car sale example applies here.

      when people buy a car or something like, they have the mindset of negotiation, they know the offered price isn't final, and with a little pressure, they can squeeze a better deal..
      The same applies for a real state, but doesn't apply for a regular merchandise in a store, you can't take a computer or a TV with a price ticket on it to the clerk and say I want this for a lower price
      Also, the clerk can't take you aside and tell you "well, if you think the price is a bit high, I can give you a deal".. this is simply not legal, if they offer a discount, they shall offer it to all customers upfront, and don't let customers buy the same product for different prices, this is a backyard sale, not a real business..
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      It's like looking at a car in the showroom, deciding you don't want it, and the salesman is following you out the door shouting " $28,000, ok $25,000, would ya buy for $$21,000?"
      That's how it feels to me as well. Especially the ones that have Butterfly Marketing throw several pitches in a row. "Would you believe 20% off? How about 50% off? 98% off? C'mon, throw me a buck?" All the time with the inane copy&paste text about "people who make things happen."

      Originally Posted by lisag View Post

      I don't trust the guy to be straight with me on other issues if he can't be straight with me on pricing.
      Amen. As far as rapport goes, I would believe 10% off after I've been on the list for a month or two.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author GrantFreeman
    Lets say you want to buy a car I'm selling. You think the price is to high (an objection), so I offer something to make the deal a bit sweeter.

    I want to sell the car. You want to buy it. But you have an objection- price too high.

    At this point, I could lower the price, OR I could offer something else that you would like to sweeten the deal. You could call this "haggling" or "making a deal that benefits both parties". Both are a part of the sales process and buyers & sellers do it all the time.

    In this case, the website you're talking about is simply offering a lower price because the customer had an objection of some sort.

    I don't agree with constantly lowering the price as the only option. You could easily offer a bonus, longer guarantee, etc.

    It's not unethical, it's simply the online equivalent of offline price haggling. It could have been done much better.

    Grant
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  • Profile picture of the author entry
    Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

    I am talking about the exit pop ups with discount offer for the same product.

    I was on the sales page of a newly launched product, I was not interested , so I closed the browser, to get an exit pop up for $10 off.

    I closed again, to only get another offer for $20 off!!

    The 2 discount offers were for the same exact product being sold for the original price, not for a light version or a smaller package..

    I just thought " is this ethical?"

    Am I been rewarded for being skeptical, while others having good intentions towards the offer and got sold on the first page are being punished by paying a higher price for the same product?

    When these exit pop discount are offered to a lighter version it's at least justified, but for the same product :confused::confused::confused:

    I just believe this isn't a good practice
    A good question- I have thought the same before
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    The crucial difference that only Lisa has pointed out is that in person, the sales rep can see your expression, find out if you are interested, and talk with you in a two-way conversation that can trade off price and features to suit your needs. The pushy online systems act as though you had already said you're interested and had already complained about the price, then present a script based on those assumptions. Hint: making up a story you assume about me is not the way to my heart.
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    • Profile picture of the author Seattle Mike
      They definitely have trained me to leave and check for a discount. You feel like a sucker when you order now and then find out you could have saved 20%-40%.

      It's ethical but if your good customers(the ones who buy quickly) catch it..bad blood. imo

      I can understand doing this on a new product to test prices but wouldn't split testing salespages do the same thing? Or is the "secret discount" popup what really gets the credit card #? hmm, i do like surprises.
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  • Profile picture of the author MisterMunch
    I thought that it was common knowledge that when you walk away from a salesman he will automatically run after you with a lower price.
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  • Profile picture of the author areaK
    It's just like any other type of "haggling". It's not uncommon to get something for cheaper if you haggle with someone. I recently haggled a higher affiliate commission on something than everyone else gets..unethical, I don't think so. They want the money so they may be willing to negotiate. If they can't get you to buy at full price, they try to get you at a discount, it's just sales. It's not uncommon in the offline sales world so why would it be different in the online sales world. People negotiate lower prices on cars, etc. - does that make it unethical?

    What about people who do split testing with rotating sales pages/prices? They want to see what price is most successful. They aren't trying to cheat anyone. They are trying to make sales and they are trying to see what people will buy at. (this is a little diff than your example but I don't really think either is unethical...it's the sales world)
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by areaK View Post

      It's just like any other type of "haggling". It's not uncommon to get something for cheaper if you haggle with someone. I recently haggled a higher affiliate commission on something than everyone else gets..unethical, I don't think so. They want the money so they may be willing to negotiate. If they can't get you to buy at full price, they try to get you at a discount, it's just sales. It's not uncommon in the offline sales world so why would it be different in the online sales world. People negotiate lower prices on cars, etc. - does that make it unethical?

      What about people who do split testing with rotating sales pages/prices? They want to see what price is most successful. They aren't trying to cheat anyone. They are trying to make sales and they are trying to see what people will buy at. (this is a little diff than your example but I don't really think either is unethical...it's the sales world)
      Again, we are comparing apples to oranges here

      There's nothing in common between buying a car and buying a product online, plz refer to my previous post (#11)

      Also, it's totally different when you negotiate a higher affiliate commission, it's only you and the vendor, and if they found you driving higher profits than other affiliates then it's acceptable to give you a higher commission..

      But, how this can be compared to a vendor selling the same product for different prices to different customers?!!!

      This IMHO is cheating on customers who are not aware of the exit pop up thing and just buy without closing browsers, and the vendor is ethically obliged to rebate the difference to those who paid full price...

      What will you feel if you visited a store , bought a widget for $100, and met a friend on the store doors and you knew she bought the same widget at the same time for $80?
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      • Profile picture of the author Reuven
        Ethical or not, I'm not sure it's a wise thing to do. If the customer finds out you offer a lower price after they've already bought from you, they'll be angry. If they find out before they make the sale by turning down a first offer, you have trained your customer to not trust you. Either way, that hurts you as well as the customer.

        One thing that keeps coming up on WF is the need to have a mailing list because it's easier to get a sale from someone who has already bought from you. Wouldn't it be best if that was a list of people who also trusted you? You have to earn that trust by being honest and fair with your prices.
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        • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
          I bought a TV last month from my local retail outlet and paid full price.

          This weekend, my brother bought the exact same TV but drove a hard bargain with the salesman and got a generous discount and a free TV stand.

          Was I mad?

          Yes.

          But I didn't ask for the discount when I bought it so I lost out.

          It is rubbish to say that online sellers who discount in order to get the sale are not displaying confidence in their pricing.

          Almost every business known to man (and women ) will negotiate in order to get the sale. That is business.

          Sit on any aeroplane and ask the passengers what they paid for the flight. None of them will have paid the same amount. One of them might have paid $1000 and the other just $14.

          The online seller sets the price that they are willing to go to.

          If the buyer was not going to buy paying the full asking price and walks away but the seller offers a reduction in order to get a sale, it is not unethical.

          The customers who paid full price were NOT ripped off and nothing unethical or dishonest has taken place. They were obviously sold to by the sales copy and thought that the product was worth investing in.

          Yes, they might be peeved as I was with my brother and his TV but at the time we thought that the price we paid was fair....or we would not have bought it.

          Gary
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          • Profile picture of the author areaK
            Originally Posted by garyfromdurham View Post

            I bought a TV last month from my local retail outlet and paid full price.

            This weekend, my brother bought the exact same TV but drove a hard bargain with the salesman and got a generous discount and a free TV stand.

            Was I mad?

            Yes.

            But I didn't ask for the discount when I bought it so I lost out.

            It is rubbish to say that online sellers who discount in order to get the sale are not displaying confidence in their pricing.

            Almost every business known to man (and women ) will negotiate in order to get the sale. That is business.

            Sit on any aeroplane and ask the passengers what they paid for the flight. None of them will have paid the same amount. One of them might have paid $1000 and the other just $14.

            The online seller sets the price that they are willing to go to.

            If the buyer was not going to buy paying the full asking price and walks away but the seller offers a reduction in order to get a sale, it is not unethical.

            The customers who paid full price were NOT ripped off and nothing unethical or dishonest has taken place. They were obviously sold to by the sales copy and thought that the product was worth investing in.

            Yes, they might be peeved as I was with my brother and his TV but at the time we thought that the price we paid was fair....or we would not have bought it.

            Gary
            My point exactly.
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      • Profile picture of the author lisag
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Again, we are comparing apples to oranges here

        What will you feel if you visited a store , bought a widget for $100, and met a friend on the store doors and you knew she bought the same widget at the same time for $80?
        Ask that question to airline passengers and hotel guests and prepare to be shocked at the differences in fares and room rates paid by people for the exact same level of service.

        We took a family road trip last summer from Florida to Massachusetts. We went the long way and visited some national parks along the way. With no advance reservations for hotels, we just stopped when we were tired.

        My husband always asked "If I go out to my car and turn my laptop on will I find a lower rate at a nearby competitor, or a better rate for one of your rooms?" Without fail, we immediately got a lower rate than the one that was quoted when we walked up to the desk. In one case, it was 50% lower.
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      • Profile picture of the author areaK
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Again, we are comparing apples to oranges here

        There's nothing in common between buying a car and buying a product online, plz refer to my previous post (#11)

        Also, it's totally different when you negotiate a higher affiliate commission, it's only you and the vendor, and if they found you driving higher profits than other affiliates then it's acceptable to give you a higher commission..

        But, how this can be compared to a vendor selling the same product for different prices to different customers?!!!

        This IMHO is cheating on customers who are not aware of the exit pop up thing and just buy without closing browsers, and the vendor is ethically obliged to rebate the difference to those who paid full price...

        What will you feel if you visited a store , bought a widget for $100, and met a friend on the store doors and you knew she bought the same widget at the same time for $80?
        Okay, I get where you're saying apples and oranges and you may be right (although I don't care if it's a product online or a car, someone else still bought it for more so it's still all the same to me...is it fair that the car salesman gave someone else a couple thousand off but not you because you bit for the full asking price? It's sales and that's the way it is. Only diff is there's no live person on the website to stop you from hitting the door so instead it's done with a popup). But, I still think it's a form of haggling. Maybe "I'm" not asking for the lower rate but "you" are offering it to keep me from leaving, call it reverse haggling if you will then.

        (and I wasn't bringing in higher sales 'yet', I just liked the cost of their program for my readers vs. another program that was as good but higher priced so I told them I'd market theirs instead but only if they'd give me a higher commission because I found theirs to be too low for my time...besides the point a bit but just as a note that I hadn't delivered them a penny yet, but if they wanted my sales, they'd have to negotiate or I'd go elsewhere)

        But back to the topic at hand. I HAVE had that happen to me (and probably more times htan I know...and probably you too) and although I wished I got it for less money, how could I be mad, it's business and you'll do what you gotta do to make the sale. You're making a profit no matter what you sell it at obviously and if you're willing to take a little less profit to get the sale and make something, I'm not mad at you.

        Again, I stick to the fact that's it's very common for a business to offer their goods at a set price, but then offer it to some people for less just to get the sale if the customer is heading for the door. And again, the only diff from online and offline is there's no live person to stop you from hitting the door so the popup represents the salesperson that would say "hey, wait, don't leave, I'll give you a deal". Just my 2 cents.
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      • Profile picture of the author GrantFreeman
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Again, we are comparing apples to oranges here

        There's nothing in common between buying a car and buying a product online, plz refer to my previous post (#11)
        Nonsense. The anatomy of a sale:

        1. Each one takes more money OUT of the buyers pocket.
        2. Each one puts more money in sellers pocket.

        The fundamentals of sales from a salesman's point of view is simple: How many apples can I get for my carrots.

        I think one of the problems here, is that you think a prospect has already said no. Big mistake. There are all kinds of objections to the reason why a person clicked away and got this popup in the first place..

        The kids were screaming
        The curtains caught fire
        An important cell phone call came through.. or..
        The price seemed too high

        I'm sure you can think of many other distractions or reason for the objection. Thinking that the only objection is "no" is foolish and close minded. And this kind of thinking, when you're trying to give the customer an appealing offer, will put LESS money in your pocket..

        Not MORE.

        Again, if you're the seller, do you want MORE sales.. or LESS?

        If I were to do this example I'd change the popup from a lower price, to adding a longer guarantee or and exclusive customer service. I'd ADD VALUE first before I lowered my price.

        Even better if I could add urgency to the better deal. And why wouldn't you want to purchase a product from someone who wants to give you more bang for the buck? In other words as the BUYER, would you rather pay MORE or pay LESS?

        You're not hurting someone by making the offer more appealing, and showing them that you want them as a customer. Likewise by lowering the price so they spend less money.

        Lowering the price OR sweetening the deal increases the odds of you making the sale. I see nothing unethical about it.

        Grant
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        • Profile picture of the author krharper
          Something about exit pop-ups that really rubs me the wrong way. For whatever reason, I don't really mind pop-ups or pop-overs when I arrive at a page, but I hate having to click something when I'm trying to leave. The "ethics" issue is particularly pertinent because most of the exit pop-ups are written in a very confusing manner so that you usually click the button with the opposite of your intent.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
          Originally Posted by GrantFreeman View Post

          There are all kinds of objections to the reason why a person clicked away and got this popup in the first place..

          The kids were screaming
          The curtains caught fire
          An important cell phone call came through.. or..
          The price seemed too high
          ...
          If I were to do this example I'd change the popup from a lower price, to adding a longer guarantee or and exclusive customer service. I'd ADD VALUE first before I lowered my price.
          That's what I'd love to see. The "hey buddy, we'll cut the price" carnie barker spiel implies that it's impossible for the seller to find any way to provide value, so all that can be done is to cut the price. How about some more creativity in the offer?
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  • Profile picture of the author duncanb
    To me this practice is fine. This is sales, where the marketer is attempting to peursuade the potential customer to purchase their porduct.

    In real time life i have walked into shops as we all have inquired about a product, declared that i was not interested due to the price and on walking out the door have found the salesman running after me saying that we can arrange some sort of discounted price.

    This practice is fine!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Also, something to remember is that selling the front-end product is very likely not the major goal of the campaign. Gaining another list subscriber and therefore potential continual sales is the name of the game in IM. So if they lose money on the front end, but still gain a list subscriber, well then, goal achieved!
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  • Profile picture of the author shanferg
    Exit pop ups are annoying and basically stupid at least in my opinion anyway, as for ethical to each their own basically they are hungry for a sale and determined to do whatever it takes to get one. I do not think their is anything unethical about them but if I am leaving the site to begin with I have already decided that I dont want the product and a stupid pop up is not going to make me buy at a cheaper price when I do not want it to begin with.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    I agree that ethics really have nothing to do with this. It's just a last ditch attempt to get a sale from you as you're leaving, and it happens at businesses everywhere, including car dealerships as mentioned above. This is also what happens when you go to a flea market or bazaar, you'll have all the sellers yelling at you as you start leaving their store or cart, offering you lower prices in an attempt to get you to buy. Price variability happens at these places because you can bargain there, and the salesman with the best negotiation skills will end up getting the deal. The same concept (more or less) applies to the exit pop-ups on these webpages as well!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sandeep Shah
    This practice devalues the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    I personally don't use these things I have a bunch of them because they come in a lot of product packages I buy .
    I disagree they are not unethical. it is one thing to have a sales letter geared to drive home the sale but if the customer doesn't act why use pressure?

    It is unethical and I will explain why I think it is .

    you appear desperate when you hit them with an exit pop you are portraying one price hoping the customer will buy and when they don't you hit them with a lower price but yet mr johnson comes to the site and is swayed and pays full price. it is literally ripping the customers who pay full price off and that is unethical in any book.

    If you product is worth xx dollars on your sales page but only worth x dollars when they try to leave wouldn't that also give an impression your product was garbage to begin with ?
    -WD
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post


      If you product is worth xx dollars on your sales page but only worth x dollars when they try to leave wouldn't that also give an impression your product was garbage to begin with ?
      -WD
      No.

      That is a very naive way of viewing business. It doesn't happen like that in the offline world so why should it online?

      The whole point of being in business is to get the sale. Deals and discounts are common place.

      In fact I think it is very arrogant of IM's to say "No. That is my price. Take it or leave it" and are unwilling to budge on price.

      1) They are losing potential sales

      2) They are not doing much to help the client who might not be able to afford it at the time. A customer who might be inclined to buy more products from them again if the information is good. That is worse in my eyes than the Internet Marketer who says "okay so you can't afford it. Don't leave. Buy it at this price instead. Is that a better price for you?"

      Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author Spadger
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      Originally Posted by Spadger View Post

      I tend to expect these exit popups nowadays. Although it does cheapen the product in my eyes, and if I bought it at full price etc, I'd be a might p'd off.
      but nobody would have forced you to buy? You chose to buy it because you thought it was a fair price and you wanted it.

      I feel a better more 'ethical' way is just to offer the item at a decent price to begin with and see what happens.
      What is a decent price?

      Yep it's business, I agree, but having worked in retail I know that people get wary if you offer discounts to make them buy.
      Why?

      Everybody I know would be overjoyed at getting a bargain.

      Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author Hamza
    Actually whati think is people who are doing such a thing with their products and even if they act like experts or "gurus" they are the ones who are taking this industry down and making people lose their trust in other's products ...

    Hope someday they will see he big picture of what they are doing
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      Originally Posted by Hamza View Post

      Actually whati think is people who are doing such a thing with their products and even if they act like experts or "gurus" they are the ones who are taking this industry down and making people lose their trust in other's products ...

      Hope someday they will see he big picture of what they are doing
      Hamza

      Please could you give an explanation how they are bringing the industry and how it makes people lose trust in other peoples products?

      I'll ask the same question to you as I asked Soniia:

      If a customer could not afford your product but really wanted to buy it would you let them buy it a cheaper price or would you refuse telling them that that is the price, take it or leave it?

      Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Royal
    I know they can be effective but why not do this,

    On your sales page always offer a bonus. (I know this can sometimes devalue the initial offer but it can also increase sales.)

    When they exit they can get it without the bonus for cheaper.

    Or when they exit the are hit with a 2 question survey,
    Did you not like the offer?
    Was it out of your price range?

    Then you can have them get added to a list if it was out of their price range and do a mini launch later for those guys.

    Just my thoughts.

    Torrance
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  • Profile picture of the author TimAtkinson
    Do you sell your own products? I think having a exit pop up is vital with certain product creations. My point is the exit pop up helps conversions and sales. As marketers we have to appeal to all types of people. Some people might think the initial price is too high, how are we going to know if we don't test..Exit pop ups are a great way to test your price point. Offering your product with tons of value and then the exit pop up being a little less value and lower price is my preference. If I have a product thats been running 6 months and it's losing it's steam you bet your azz I'm having 2 or 3 downsells to maximize profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author soniia21
    I've heard that this tactic can convert well, but I think it can cause a loss of trust in customers and the long-term aim is to build trust in your existing customers so they feel happy making repeat purchases for you. It's much easier to sell to existing happy customers than convert new ones. If you treat your customers well then they will look after you.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      Originally Posted by soniia21 View Post

      It's much easier to sell to existing happy customers than convert new ones. If you treat your customers well then they will look after you.
      Soniia

      If a customer saw your product and said that they really wanted to buy it but could not afford the price would you be willing to give it to them at a discount?

      Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    It's unethical to people who don't run businesses and
    hustle on the internet.

    For someone who runs a REAL business that requires
    products to be sold in order to keep it running IE Pay Salaries,
    Marketing budget, accounts payables, etc... Then I can see it
    being just fine.

    I don't use them. And I honestly personally find them annoying.

    But I'm not going to call something unethical just because I don't
    like it.

    I can someone who runs a real business using these if it is increasing
    revenue.

    And for the whole "Customers won't be happy" is all bull****.

    I've run plenty of sales where customers bought something for a much
    higher price then I offer it at a lower price.

    If you overdeliver on value and they feel they got more than what
    they paid for they don't give a crap. And I have thousands of customers
    and never got a complaint about it.

    Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Thinking about setting my script up to pop up and say " I knew you were on a higher level than this basic $47 version, that is why we can offer the same product but with three bonus whistles and , since you twisted my arm, two bells for only $147 "

    Of course since bells and whistles don't come standard I will have to limit the "elite" version to only 9 people .

    If you need to ask if the shirt needs ironing .... just plug up the iron.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Formby
    Second, it trains your buyers to expect discounts.
    This is true, i must admit when i goto a sales page first thing i do is hover over the x , or back button to see if there is a discount lol

    Mikey
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  • Profile picture of the author shanferg
    Some people try to hard to make a sale some do not try hard enough who can say whats right or wrong anymore, personally I do not use or like exit pop ups I find them annoying. If they work for some so be it more power to them, overall if I am not interested in a product I wont buy it no matter how many pop ups follow the initial departure.
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  • Profile picture of the author aaronngoh
    I welcome the exist pop up that give me discount for the product. They are testing their price point that most customers will buy.

    It is like a real world, we you go to shop and you really love that product that you find, the owner offer you a price and you pay for it.

    It is because you believe it is fair value

    On the other hand, when you walk away, they counter offer you another pricing, if you think that is price you want to pay, then you come back and close the transaction.

    But after some offer, if it is not you want, you close all the exist pop up and walk away

    Just feel that they just used an offline strategy that works very well on an online product.

    Yes, it may frustrate some people, at the end, you cannot please everyone
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    Here is a thread on the copywritingsells forum that also addresses this issue:

    Do Pop-Up Discounts and Automated Virtual Agents Hurt Your Sales? « Copywriting Sells

    It occurs to me that perhaps anyone wanting to find out about a product could just use google, and find out if there are popup discounts, and what the lowest price is.

    Somehow, I don't see that as developing a loyal following. Unless cheapskates are the type of occasional customers you are after.

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    I guess it's no different than negotiating with a car dealer who gives you one last offer as you walk off the lot.

    I mean, the guy who didn't walk didn't get that price now did he?

    That said, it wouldn't be my preferred style of selling (or being sold to).
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    One thing that occurs to me is if you are going to use popups, at least make the choice to stay or to leave obvious to the user. I've always thought that use of the default Okay/Cancel messages is brain damaged.

    The copywritingsells thread example at least is an intelligent way of doing it ... Leave This Page/Stay on This Page.

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by A Bary View Post

    The 2 discount offers were for the same exact product being sold for the original price, not for a light version or a smaller package..

    I just thought " is this ethical?"
    This is an accepted practice that almost every offline business engages in every day. Go look at a car at a used car lot, speak at length with a salesperson, then act thoughtful and get ready to leave.

    Bam, the price of that car you were looking at magically goes down. Still the same car, but the price goes down anyway.

    I still won't do this, and I don't approve when others do it.

    But it's not in any way unethical.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      This is an accepted practice that almost every offline business engages in every day. Go look at a car at a used car lot, speak at length with a salesperson, then act thoughtful and get ready to leave.

      Bam, the price of that car you were looking at magically goes down. Still the same car, but the price goes down anyway.

      I still won't do this, and I don't approve when others do it.

      But it's not in any way unethical.
      As a counter to that argument, go into the grocery store and do the same thing. Somehow, I doubt they are going to lower the price .

      It sounds like the latter approach is how a number of people here including you and I prefer.

      I agree it is not unethical, but I don't consider it good business practice.

      I remember an advertisement when a car was being sold for only 1000 bananas (slang for dollars back then.) When someone tried to pay in bananas, the d**m court ruled that they had to sell the car for bananas ... an Utterly brain damaged ruling!

      Marvin
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

        As a counter to that argument, go into the grocery store and do the same thing.
        That's why I said "almost." It's a question of price elasticity. In the modern economy, arbitrage has become immensely easy, so prices are far more elastic across most kinds of businesses.

        Grocery stores do not have a lot of elasticity. Their profit margins are slim and their overhead is high. If they drop their price by more than a few percent, they're taking a loss, and it probably won't lead them to greater profits in the future.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author donhx
        Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

        As a counter to that argument, go into the grocery store and do the same thing. Somehow, I doubt they are going to lower the price .

        Marvin

        This really isn't a counter argument. If Store A will not lower their price, people will go to Store B where prices are lower. That's what made WalMart the giant it is today.
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        • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
          Originally Posted by donhx View Post

          This really isn't a counter argument. If Store A will not lower their price, people will go to Store B where prices are lower. That's what made WalMart the giant it is today.
          You are starting to mix apples and oranges ... you are now talking about buyer psychology as opposed to seller psychology.

          ISTR something I read a long time ago that equated what you are talking about to game theory.

          Grocery stores do not have a lot of elasticity.
          I might well not be understanding the concept of elasticity, but I don't think profit really enters into it ... the grocery business is VERY elastic. Lower prices equal higher volume. Why else would a store put something on sale that is at or below their cost?

          Darn, I knew someone would bring up the lifetime value of the customer .

          Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author donhx
    Ethical? I'd say pop-ups are morally neutral.

    People are free to make as many offers as they want. If someone does not buy at one price, there is no problem with offering them a lower price.

    The idea is always the same... don't let the customer leave until the sale has been made. It's may be annoying at times, but it makes good business sense. It takes a lot of time, effort and money to acquire a site visitor, so it best to sell them something if you can.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    If someone goes to leave your salespage it can only be for one of two reasons:

    1) They do not want to buy your product, or
    2) They do not want to buy your product NOW

    If you are going to use some kind of exit pop then the best way to use them is with some type of optin offer. Catch all those people who are somewhat interested but are not ready to buy for whatever reason. Give them something of value and follow up with them over the next week or so. Keep demonstrating the value and benefits until they buy.

    An inexperienced salesman has to lower the price to seal a deal. A more experienced salesman leaves the price as is but adds value to the offer.

    I don't like the whole idea of the exit coupons. Imagine walking into a shop, looking at a tv, deciding it is a little too expensive, then as you go to leave, the salesman follows you and keeps knocking money off the price.

    Sure, your first thought is going to be BARGAIN but then you are going to start to wonder why he is so willing to slash the price and so keen to get that TV out of the shop. It immediately diminishes the value of the product.

    There's a reason why most desperate people are dateless...
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Dolan
    The first thing many people do when they see a product they like is click the close button to see what exit offer there is.

    They work well when the exit offer is reduced but the package also is reduced.

    One positive, they create a feel good, found the backdoor type of feeling for his customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teravel
    I think the Unethical part is that some of these exit pop-ups discard the affiliate link attached, thus negating the affiliate sale. Stealing traffic from your hard working team of marketers, never a good idea...
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I agree with what people are saying, but the bottom line is that they increase sales.

    Often, (not always) the very successful marketers push the envelope and take their marketing to the edge because that's what makes them the most money. If you're online to make friends and never annoy anyone, spend your all your time on FaceBook and Twitter all day.

    Realtors can be annoying. Car salesmen can be annoying. The kid at McDonald's who asks if you want to super-size your fries can be annoying. No argument! But those things increase sales--so do exit pop-ups.

    Annoying? Sure.
    Unethical? Heck no.

    --Mike
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