Newbies - Don't fall into this trap - You're being fed BS

272 replies
Hi warriors,

This post is for newbies to the forum and IM in general.

You may have heard the term 'sell the sizzle not the steak'? (it means if you're selling something sell the exciting part rather than just give boring description of the product itself)

Well - I'm just here to warn you that much of the sizzle you're being sold doesn't actually come with steak.

Here's a reality check.

Most people in IM are not making money. Probably 90% of those who are - are making less than they're spending on IM stuff.

Of that remaining 10% - probably half of them are not making enough for it to be their only income.

Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.

Now, I know you're being fed sizzle that says - here's how to make a few grand in a few days, and yes it is possible - I've done it and even shared how I did it, but......

Even when someone says it and it's true - it's not the reality for most people that try to copy it.

I'm not just saying this from personal experience - I get out and about a lot and meet people, other IMers who are working hard to make money - most of them are not really making any money.

The real kicker to this is - that is regardless of what tools, courses and systems they've bought which promise to short-cut their success.

These tools, systems, courses, ebooks, videos etc.... will not suddenly make you great money.

The MAIN factor that will effect your success is - HOW MUCH WORK YOU DO.

Now, obviously there's a certain amount of knowledge required and many people are buying information products and coaching etc to short cut their knowledge gathering - that's absolutely fine and a good idea.

But I'm telling you - if you think that you're just waiting until you finish your first ebook - then you'll be rich, don't kid yourself. 70% of IMers have written at least one ebook and even if they sold some, it usually doesn't last and it's just a tiny part of making money.

What you don't see is just how MUCH people making money really do.

For instance - I have several hundred websites of my own and several hundreds blogs and social accounts etc...

Why? because it means that I don't need to rely on anyone else for me to be able to get traffic, links and sales to my own products.

The biggest problem most people have is being able to turn their traffic on when they need. If you have that targeted traffic tap - then you can always make money.

The problem is - it takes time to build it.

I know that people are always telling you to get this tool or that system - the thing is - did you notice how every one of them seems to be the 'only one you need' or 'the best tool of its kind' - and the underlyng assumption is that it's all you need.

The Twitter tools are a classic example - as soon as a few marketers realised that Twitter is popular and people will buy stuff if you tell them they now need twitter and the latest Twitter abuse tools - they create whatever they think is what people want to see and sell the hell out of it.

It probably won't surprise you to hear that most of the Twitter 'automatic adder' tools will get your account banned. Twitter hates people abusing their systems the same as Google does.

These tools are not the answer to your problems.

They're adding to your problems.

With all that said - we're making the situation worse every time we buy into the latest hype or tool.

The things you're doing to 'help' yourself are the very things that are sabotaging your success.

Looking for shortcuts all the time is NOT the way to be successful - can you imagine an olympic athlete saying "I'm going to stay in bed today instead of my morning run - I have this drink that says it will give me energy when I need it", or for that matter a farmer who waits until 2 weeks before harvest and then tries to quickly grow his crops at the last minute because he couldn't be bothered to put the time in and plant them when they should have been.

You need a plan - a plan that actually points you to a successful result. Not some generic thing that 'should get you 'some' results.

If you went to your bank manager and said "I need $5k to start an online business" and he asked "so can you show me how and when you'll make that back" and your answer was "well, I'm going to spend $2k on this traffic course, then pay some people I don't know below minimum wage to write articles for me and then just watch the cash roll in" what his reaction would be?

There are 2 pieces of advice I would like to humbly offer you today.

1 - Don't underestimate the amount and consistency of work that is being done by people who seem to be 'easily and quickly' making great money.

2 - Before you invest yourself fully into your online activities (this is something you need to do really) when you get to the point where you've read about or heard of an 'easy' way to make money - take a deep breath, sit down somewhere quiet and be really honest with yourself and ask this question - "Do I really KNOW what the plan for my online business is? (are you hoping to pay your mortgage, or support your family) and will the activities I'm planning to do be able to get me there? if I'm not sure - are they activities that I can measure and be able to tell whether I need to supplement/replace them at some point?"

People will tell you all sorts of things, usually for the right reasons, often out of enthusiasm or excitement - but most of it will not be true for you.

Don't base your business and your dreams on what people are telling you. Use your brain, assess things for yourself and make a plan that's right for YOU.

Certainly model the success of others but don't expect copying people or buying the latest "how to make $5 in 5 days" WSO will answer your problems.

Ask yourself the questions that challenge whether someone is trying to make you cut corners and not do your business in the way you know really needs to be done.

Take your business seriously and don't kid yourself that hard work is involved. Almost ANY IM money making strategy will work if you just get focused and take consistent action in a direction that you understand and can see how and why it will work.

Don't waste your money buying lots of tools - they're just there to help you be more effective once you already know what works for you.

And don't be afraid for ask for help - working with others makes your IM journey MUCH more fun.

Andy
#fall #fed #newbies #trap
  • Profile picture of the author aaallday2010
    Thanks. I needed that!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    What an excellent post, Andy! Not only for newbies, but for those who have been at it a while who aren't making money yet.

    I can back up what Andy says. I make most of my money with what I write. I probably write 100,000 words a week, maybe more. That doesn't include support tasks, making graphics, doing research, answering emails, donating time to help others here, etc.

    Sure, I can send one email and make $2,000 - $3,000 or more in a couple days selling one of my products, but it took years to build that mailing list, and it took days to weeks to make the product. I could say I can show you how I make thousands of dollars with one click of the button on a sales page, and it would be true, but that doesn't really tell the whole story, does it?

    It is work, and lots of it for little reward when you're first starting out. That's where faith in yourself and perseverance helps. If you stick with it long enough, and are willing to work and learn, there's no reason you can't be successful too.
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    • Profile picture of the author lonicera
      I consider myself a newbie as there are so many things that I don't know. This is an excellent motivational post.

      But I was wondering, what makes a "newbie" being a newbie? Is it the time spent trying to make some money in IM, is it the amount earned, number of live websites, products... ?
      A few days ago I was talking to a friend of mine who just discovered IM, registered on clickbank last week and still doesn't own a website, she said: "Easy for you to say, you are already an expert, you have made a few sales, received checks, you have several websites and you are creating your first product, huh.."

      Well, since my account shows just 0.00$ I don't think she is near the truth, right ?
      Aren't we all newbies for different methods all the time?
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by lonicera View Post

        I consider myself a newbie as there are so many things that I don't know. This is an excellent motivational post.

        But I was wondering, what makes a "newbie" being a newbie? Is it the time spent trying to make some money in IM, is it the amount earned, number of live websites, products... ?
        A few days ago I was talking to a friend of mine who just discovered IM, registered on clickbank last week and still doesn't own a website, she said: "Easy for you to say, you are already an expert, you have made a few sales, received checks, you have several websites and you are creating your first product, huh.."

        Well, since my account shows just 0.00$ I don't think she is near the truth, right ?
        Aren't we all newbies for different methods all the time?
        Dennis said it - it's all relative and subjective.

        If you feel like a newbie - you are one, regardless of what anyone else says - it's your experience and you have the right to define it.

        I don't actually like the word newbie, but it seems well accepted here and so I made the assumption that people wouldn't take any offense to it and just take the post for what it's worth to them.

        No-one knows everything about everything and being a newbie in no way makes you less valuable or worthy in any sense. Being new to IM applies to us all when we get started.

        I also don't believe it has anything to do with whether you've made any money or not. You could get lucky and make money quickly but if it stopped and you couldn't repeat it - does that make you a newbie again?

        The same goes for the term Guru - some people I see called gurus I consider less knowledgeable than some people who still think of themselves as newbies. Because of the large focus on money in the IM niche, many people seem to confuse making money with being knowledgeable, intelligent or understanding marketing. You can easily make money and still be a clueless half-wit, or very knowledgeable and not making money.

        Like with musicians - there are plenty of talented starving musicians and plenty of talentless rich musicians.

        Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time does the trick, sometimes it's all about relationships - sometimes you make your own luck by planning and hard work.

        I think that underlying all of this is the fact that - if you get a plan and work your socks off, you're inviting yourself to be a lot 'luckier'.

        Hard work doesn't guarantee success but lack of it usually guarantees lack of success.

        Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author diger
        Originally Posted by lonicera View Post

        I consider myself a newbie as there are so many things that I don't know. This is an excellent motivational post.

        But I was wondering, what makes a "newbie" being a newbie? Is it the time spent trying to make some money in IM, is it the amount earned, number of live websites, products... ?
        A few days ago I was talking to a friend of mine who just discovered IM, registered on clickbank last week and still doesn't own a website, she said: "Easy for you to say, you are already an expert, you have made a few sales, received checks, you have several websites and you are creating your first product, huh.."

        Well, since my account shows just 0.00$ I don't think she is near the truth, right ?
        Aren't we all newbies for different methods all the time?
        This word "newbie" gets tossed around a lot and its meaning is equally broad to different people. For self evaluation a person could think, "if I am not yet making money as an IM, I am a newbie", and if I am manking money I am not a "newbie"!

        Rather simple, right? Any way, Andy Henry writes a good post but until a person get hundreds of websites and blogs, tweets, etc. don't let possible lack of succe$$ in your efforts destroy your attitude toward business. You may even be accused of being a "tire kicker" while you are searching for the best course of action for yorself.

        Best Wishes, Diger
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by diger View Post

          This word "newbie" gets tossed around a lot and its meaning is equally broad to different people. For self evaluation a person could think, "if I am not yet making money as an IM, I am a newbie", and if I am manking money I am not a "newbie"!

          Rather simple, right? Any way, Andy Henry writes a good post but until a person get hundreds of websites and blogs, tweets, etc. don't let possible lack of succe$$ in your efforts destroy your attitude toward business. You may even be accused of being a "tire kicker" while you are searching for the best course of action for yorself.

          Best Wishes, Diger
          Absolutely!

          Proper planning is important.

          Also - you don't need a single website of your own in order to make money - so number and size of websites is irrelevant to success.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Good stuff written here. So true
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Ionicera - there is no official definition of a newbie. Ask ten people and you'll probably get ten different definitions. You are correct that we're all newbies at some things. To me, it just means you're in a learning phase and have farther to go than you've come.
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  • Profile picture of the author Flyingpig7
    Oh absolutley I agree Dennis, I regard myself as a newbie too even though I've started to make some money. Since I'm am still at that stage where I'm learning the tasks, the planning and so forth. I will not feel I've moved on from that noob state until I've got the regular full-time income that Andy is talking about.
    By the way Andy a brilliant post I think it should be made a sticky for all those who wander over here to the Warrior Forum.

    I don't know if you mentioned that there is a lot of learning to be achieved in order to make the "plans" work, but that is why everybody is here on the forum right! :-)


    Keren
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  • Profile picture of the author filiks
    as long as i keep coming to this forum for tips and hows, i consider myself a total newbie.

    andy that was an excellent post.hard work is not what is generally preached to info marketers but how easy to make the money!
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by filiks View Post

      as long as i keep coming to this forum for tips and hows, i consider myself a total newbie.

      andy that was an excellent post.hard work is not what is generally preached to info marketers but how easy to make the money!
      That's true - but in reality it's because that's what newbies want to hear.

      Many people that get in to IM have never experienced financial success before and they don't realise that people who make money - work hard for it.

      The Internet 'cash machine' they're being sold is just the story they want to hear - it's much easier to sell them that than the truth.
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      • Profile picture of the author 101millionAds
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        That's true - but in reality it's because that's what newbies want to hear.

        Many people that get in to IM have never experienced financial success before and they don't realise that people who make money - work hard for it.

        The Internet 'cash machine' they're being sold is just the story they want to hear - it's much easier to sell them that than the truth.
        You are absolutely right.
        I started with affiliate marketing last year but fortunatly i had the attitude that nothing comes to you for free-Oh my have i worked with my websites and my traffic is these days about 250 unike visitors per day and i make a sale every other day.

        I wrote in another post that my traffic was low but after i stopped using Statcounter and only used my affiliate program tracking system i see a lot of more hits to my site.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Andy, your post was so refreshing to read.

          I have been criticized for my 14 hour work days (that thankfully are behind
          me) I have been criticized for saying that some people are not cut out for
          this business because they don't have the work ethic or the smarts to
          succeed. (I still stand by that)

          Sadly, as information marketers, we're in a difficult position. It isn't just an
          IM mentality Andy. Look at the lottery lines every Tuesday or whatever
          day it is when people are hoping to win their mega millions.

          Very few people really love their work and want to work. Even those in the
          entertainment industry get burned out and quit or find their work distasteful.

          I don't even care how much you love what you do. There are going to be
          things about it that you don't like (with stars, it's the press) and there are
          going to be days you don't want to do it.

          Sometimes all you want to do is hang out at the beech.

          Many people who give "making money online" a shot are looking for quick
          riches so they can hang out at that beech permanently. They don't want
          to work. They're the same folks standing in those lottery lines.

          If we tell them...

          "Look, this product is going to require you to put in 4 to 8 hour days for
          weeks to see a return"

          Who is going to buy it?

          So as Paul says, we sell them the sizzle (leave out the "you have to work"
          part) and slip in the steak (the actual work that needs to be done)

          And make no mistake about it. I have had more than my share of
          customers write to me and flat out say...

          "This is too much work. Can I please have a refund".

          Now, I don't make claims on my sales pages that "riches" will come over-
          night or that there is no work involved.

          But by NOT saying that...they make that assumption.

          It is what people want to believe.

          And for those who say that the industry itself is responsible for that
          again, please take a look at the lottery lines.

          This mindset has been in existence long before the Internet, or have you
          all forgot Joe Karbo's "Lazy Man's Way To Riches?"

          As much as copywriters rave about that sales letter, that product was
          one of the biggest cons in all of marketing. (Yeah, I know I'm going to
          get a lot of sh*t for that remark...but it's true.)

          For Internet marketing to change, human nature, on both ends has to
          change.

          I'm sure you can guess where my money is on that happening.
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          • Profile picture of the author YseUp
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


            "Look, this product is going to require you to put in 4 to 8 hour days for
            weeks to see a return"

            Who is going to buy it?
            I would. I've only ever bought a couple (maybe 5) of $7 WSOs but I steer clear of spending any more because I'm sick of all the 'make money in 10 minutes' lies... yes lies! I you're sales page says a task takes 10 minutes when it's blatantly going to be 30 minutes then that is a lie... and I'm likely to view the rest of you claims as lies as well.

            I have much more respect for people that say what it's really like, and am more inclined to listen.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            One thing I have learned Steven...

            Many people looking to make money on line do INDEED know that work is involved (unless it's literally their first exposure to this kind of niche). The problem is that they hope against hope that not much work is required.

            Look, we're mostly lazy at heart (myself included). I want easy money too. I have just been at this long enough to know the hard truth. Interestingly though, I still find myself reading some sales letters thinking "Wow, I wonder if this system/product/service really works!"

            As marketers, we certainly have a responsibility to be ethical. But as buyers, we also need to be responsible to educate ourselves before reaching for the credit card, finding out work is involved, demanding a refund then calling the marketers a bunch of thieves.

            Interesting thing about the lottery... many people surveyed (I don't remember the statistic, but it surprised me) truly and 100% think and depend on winning the lottery to fund their retirement.

            Not hoping. Banking on it.

            What does that say to you?

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Andy, your post was so refreshing to read.

            I have been criticized for my 14 hour work days (that thankfully are behind
            me) I have been criticized for saying that some people are not cut out for
            this business because they don't have the work ethic or the smarts to
            succeed. (I still stand by that)

            Sadly, as information marketers, we're in a difficult position. It isn't just an
            IM mentality Andy. Look at the lottery lines every Tuesday or whatever
            day it is when people are hoping to win their mega millions.

            Very few people really love their work and want to work. Even those in the
            entertainment industry get burned out and quit or find their work distasteful.

            I don't even care how much you love what you do. There are going to be
            things about it that you don't like (with stars, it's the press) and there are
            going to be days you don't want to do it.

            Sometimes all you want to do is hang out at the beech.

            Many people who give "making money online" a shot are looking for quick
            riches so they can hang out at that beech permanently. They don't want
            to work. They're the same folks standing in those lottery lines.

            If we tell them...

            "Look, this product is going to require you to put in 4 to 8 hour days for
            weeks to see a return"

            Who is going to buy it?

            So as Paul says, we sell them the sizzle (leave out the "you have to work"
            part) and slip in the steak (the actual work that needs to be done)

            And make no mistake about it. I have had more than my share of
            customers write to me and flat out say...

            "This is too much work. Can I please have a refund".

            Now, I don't make claims on my sales pages that "riches" will come over-
            night or that there is no work involved.

            But by NOT saying that...they make that assumption.

            It is what people want to believe.

            And for those who say that the industry itself is responsible for that
            again, please take a look at the lottery lines.

            This mindset has been in existence long before the Internet, or have you
            all forgot Joe Karbo's "Lazy Man's Way To Riches?"

            As much as copywriters rave about that sales letter, that product was
            one of the biggest cons in all of marketing. (Yeah, I know I'm going to
            get a lot of sh*t for that remark...but it's true.)

            For Internet marketing to change, human nature, on both ends has to
            change.

            I'm sure you can guess where my money is on that happening.
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          • Profile picture of the author Sandy Cormack
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Andy, your post was so refreshing to read.

            Sometimes all you want to do is hang out at the beech.
            I want you to know I'm not letting your misspelling go to waste.

            As it happens I don't like going to the beach, but I do like to hike, and while hiking I encounter trees, some of which may be beech trees.

            So now I know what I can call it and still get my meaning across!
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            Sandy Cormack

            Creativity Training, Strategic Planning, Personal Development, Organizational Development, and Lead Guitar
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        • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
          I loved the part where you said, "...then pay some people I don't know below minimum wage to write articles for me."

          I'm seeing more & more perfectly awful articles that may pump keywords, but within two sentences, I've clicked back to the search engine for a genuinely informative website.

          Yes, I'm a writer, so I might be a little more critical. However, when the first three sentences pretty much repeat each other... I know the writer was padding the article.

          People often talk about their no-fluff reports. However, there seems to be a blind spot in this field: It's littered with articles that are wall-to-wall fluff.

          Respect your readers' time if you want them to respect the products you recommend. If your website's filled with fluff-loaded articles, readers probably won't trust your claims about a "no-fluff" report.

          Here's a dose of reality:

          I'm a moderately successful writer. Magazines pay me around $250 - $750 per article. Book publishers pay me about $250/article for non-fiction stories and chapters that will appear in compiled books and anthologies. My own books pay me even more, per article or chapter, if I look at each book's long-term income.

          I'm fairly typical among average writers. (Friends -- who are much better writers -- routinely earn four figures per article.)

          Yes, I sometimes write articles in the $15 - $75 range, for fun. Each article is unique. None of them are "spun." The keywords appear naturally in the articles, and they generally attract readers and incoming links. But, I only write them to warm up my skills in the morning, before writing the $250+ pieces.
          (Note: I'm up to my eyebrows in work. I appreciate the compliments, but please do not PM me to write for you. I can't, and there is no waiting list, either.)
          My point is: There are people who will write for less than minimum wage. Some of them even use correct grammar. However, 95% of them seem to write fluff-filled, repetitive articles that won't convert well.

          Yes, many gurus say that you can get articles written for pennies, and that's true. However, those same gurus are using writers -- often staff writers -- and paying far more than minimum wage for their articles.

          Frankly, you'd do better to write your own articles, run them through the spelling/grammar checker in Word (or whatever you write in), and give your readers unique content written from the heart... even if it's not great literature.

          That's why the best gurus tell you to focus on niches that excite you, and topics that you already know about or are fascinated to learn about. That enthusiasm will come across in your articles, even if you're not a "great writer."

          The fact is, "great writers" (and even average ones, like me) can't be bought for below minimum wage.

          If you've bought a domain with hot keywords, paid a discount writer to write (or spin) articles for you, and you're not making money... Well, just because a guru says that you can do something cheaply, doesn't mean that he (or she) actually made money that way.

          The gurus' advice is often grounded in systems that will work. However, by trying to convince you that success is accessible with almost no time and almost no money spent (except to buy their pricey report), you're short-changed.

          Success will cost you either time or money, and often both. Is it worth it? Yes. Is it effortless? No.

          I love this thread. Thank you for starting it!
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          Author of "Write Successful Viral Nonfiction Books in 10 Days or Less." (Find it at Kindle, Nook, Kobo, and iTunes.)
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    I read a quote from Paul Myers once...

    it went something like this:

    Sell them what they want
    Give them what you sold them
    Slip in what they need

    I dunno if that's exactly what he said...

    But it is how it should be

    Sell the sizzle and slip in the steak

    Peace

    Jay
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    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      I read a quote from Paul Myers once...

      it went something like this:

      Sell them what they want
      Give them what you sold them
      Slip in what they need

      I dunno if that's exactly what he said...

      But it is how it should be

      Sell the sizzle and slip in the steak

      Peace

      Jay
      I remember the quote Jay - It was while I was in Singapore and I was surprised at the way people craved the sizzle and then wondered why they didn't get steak.

      That was Pauls response to my saying how do you sell them the steak when they only want the sizzle.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Interesting timing with this post Andy, its something thats been bothering me for the last few days.

    I know a few internet marketers personally, who claim to be making 7 figures a year, and ALL of them teach from stage, in the form of coaching and seminars.

    Whats been bothering me is something that Brett McFall said to me once, during a $2,500 an hour appointment (no joke), he said...

    "John, the real money is in teaching the method, not the method itself"

    This really doesnt sit well with me at all. I need to know that people out there ARE infact making good money actually SELLING information products online, and not just selling the CONCEPT.

    This is something that is really bothering me - Id like to see this answered by some of the more established guys here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Interesting timing with this post Andy, its something thats been bothering me for the last few days.

      I know a few internet marketers personally, who claim to be making 7 figures a year, and ALL of them teach from stage, in the form of coaching and seminars.

      Whats been bothering me is something that Brett McFall said to me once, during a $2,500 an hour appointment (no joke), he said...

      "John, the real money is in teaching the method, not the method itself"

      This really doesnt sit well with me at all. I need to know that people out there ARE infact making good money actually SELLING information products online, and not just selling the CONCEPT.

      This is something that is really bothering me - Id like to see this answered by some of the more established guys here.

      That's a really good point.

      In reality there ARE people making good money selling information products - but they're not the ones you think.

      In another thread I just started I posted 'warriors you should listen to' and in that list I put Lee McIntyre for this reason - he was making money when I met him a few years ago and was completely focused on what actually works when selling ebooks etc. (not IM stuff)

      I've only met a few IMers who understand the difference between successful online business and just selling stuff to newbie IMers.

      I've had several 'Gurus' want me to pay them thousands of dollars for stuff I already know - because they're not trying to help people, just trying to sell stuff.

      It's easy to sit around and say "well, there's money to be made selling basic info to people", but that's not the same as actually understanding marketing and business.

      Sure you can teach people how to boil an egg and say there's value in that, but when they're trying to live - they need more than boiled eggs, so you can't confuse cashing in on what you do know, with actually understanding how to properly help people get what THEY need.

      That's why I've shifted a lot of my focus over to my life coaching business - I KNOW I'm changing lives and not kidding myself that sharing IM knowledge is what they really need.

      Most IM events are thinly veiled sales pitches, with the sizzle being the main course and substance being tenuous at best. It's the reason I've never got into speaking at many events. I have a lot of friends that do but even some of them accept that the events value is really in the networking and meeting people rather than what they're talking about.

      If you understand psychology and marketing, many of these events are just laughable - especially since some of the speakers have recently discovered NLP and are blatantly trying to use it (badly) in their presentations to get even more sales.

      I know we all need to put food on the table and times are hard right now, but cashing in on desperate people in ways you know are not really going to help them turns my stomache, but the problem is - they're only able to do it because that's what appeals to people.
      Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        ...but cashing in on desperate people in ways you know are not really going to help them turns my stomache.
        Absolutely.

        You know, whatever happened to just being ethical in business? Andy I have no desire to speak from stage, and I dont intend on "cashing in" on selling the concept to people that are in desperate need of making money online. It just doesnt sit well with me at all. I mean, its not about the money, its about helping people. It angers me to think that there are many successful internet marketers out there, some of which Ive probably met, that make 10% of their income through actual sales, and 90% through teaching the concept.

        That, put simply ****s me off.

        By the way, where's this thread you mentioned dude?
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post


          By the way, where's this thread you mentioned dude?

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ld-listen.html
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          • Profile picture of the author Gary King
            Nice post Andy.

            If you scan the main post and responses, you'll see a recurring word...


            >>>> BUSINESS <<<<

            Yep, sorry folks, it's a business if you want it to be successful.

            As Andy suggested (and others reinforced), you have to make a plan, execute it, and evaluate/adjust as you go.
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

              This link doesnt work or they deleted your thread Andy
              Oh well - another one bites the dust.

              Just as well I still bother starting new threads
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              • Profile picture of the author schabotte
                No question... you get out of something what you put into it.

                Now there are some folks who just happen to have the perfect combination of skills to sit down and have huge and instant success but most of the time that is not true.

                Most of the time, the instant success comes after years of hard work and many, many mistakes before developing the formula that led to their success.

                Also, most folks doing massive amounts of money are not working alone. They either have helpers - whether employees or outsourced folks - or have built up strong relationships with like minded folks who will work with them for their mutual benefit.
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                • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                  Originally Posted by schabotte View Post

                  or have built up strong relationships with like minded folks who will work with them for their mutual benefit.
                  That pretty much sums up the reason that we see the "them and us" mentality when people talk about Gurus.

                  What a lot of people fail to see is that their Guru is just like them - except that they have focused on developing relationships with like-minded people so that when they create new products they already have some buddies ready to help spread the word.

                  It makes no sense to try and do everything on your own if you want to be successful.

                  Success is not about money - it's about people. People you help and people who help you. That includes customers, affiliates, JV partners, outsourced workers and everything in between.

                  Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author Gary King
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        I know we all need to put food on the table and times are hard right now, but cashing in on desperate people in ways you know are not really going to help them turns my stomache, but the problem is - they're only able to do it because that's what appeals to people.
        Andy
        In the old WF, the equivalent of the War Room (can't remember the name, but the paid private section), Allen Says had a post that basically said:

        People buy the dream. They buy the dream over and over and over.

        I'm not saying it's right to sell them the empty dream (love the sell them the sizzle and slip in the steak part above), but it is true.

        @ramone_johnny - I'm with ya on those that just teach what may seem to be how to run a rip-off business.

        One positive thing you can get out of that is looking at their business model and adapting it to YOUR offerings. Not saying you need to teach on stage (as you said you didn't want to), but perhaps you can see how they move and adapt their techniques to fit your mojo.

        Case in point - I landed on a video by a person that will remain nameless but fits your description above. I actually picked up a whole new view on his overall mentality, reinforcing the business aspect of IM.

        All success,
        Gary
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    • Profile picture of the author MarcusEJC
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Interesting timing with this post Andy, its something thats been bothering me for the last few days.

      I know a few internet marketers personally, who claim to be making 7 figures a year, and ALL of them teach from stage, in the form of coaching and seminars.

      Whats been bothering me is something that Brett McFall said to me once, during a $2,500 an hour appointment (no joke), he said...

      "John, the real money is in teaching the method, not the method itself"

      This really doesnt sit well with me at all. I need to know that people out there ARE infact making good money actually SELLING information products online, and not just selling the CONCEPT.

      This is something that is really bothering me - Id like to see this answered by some of the more established guys here.
      Yes, I know exactly what you mean. This has bothered me for a while as well. I really hate the idea that the people that are making the really big money from internet marketing are making that money by teaching other people how to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Honestly, in the end it all boils down to two things.

    1. Things or methods that do work.
    2. Massive action until completion.


    It may be true that a lot of what's out there are just schemes.

    But make sure that you also get the "REAL STUFF" because
    without a working model, honestly, however hard you work
    you won't get nowhere.

    So be careful not to fall for the BS trap but also don't
    be too careful not to see the "REAL THING!"

    You don't want to throw away the baby along with the bathwater.

    All the best,
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      Honestly, in the end it all boils down to two things.

      1. Things or methods that do work.
      2. Massive action until completion.


      It may be true that a lot of what's out there are just schemes.

      But make sure that you also get the "REAL STUFF" because
      without a working model, honestly, however hard you work
      you won't get nowhere.

      So be careful not to fall for the BS trap but also don't
      be too careful not to see the "REAL THING!"

      You don't want to throw away the baby along with the bathwater.

      All the best,

      Ok ... I'll bite. What is the "REAL THING"? Who sells it? Where is it? Which person is actually selling the steak and not just the sizzle? Who has actually made a boat load of money from a "method" and then decided to share that cash cow with everyone on the Internet (for a fee), before it became obsolete?

      I gave up buying "methods/ebooks" long time ago. Instead, I've gleaned valuable information from forums such as this one for free and put them into action, and action is the key word here. Work, work, work. Learn, and work some more. Never stop learning.
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      • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Ok ... I'll bite. What is the "REAL THING"? Who sells it? Where is it? Which person is actually selling the steak and not just the sizzle? Who has actually made a boat load of money from a "method" and then decided to share that cash cow with everyone on the Internet (for a fee), before it became obsolete?

        I gave up buying "methods/ebooks" long time ago. Instead, I've gleaned valuable information from forums such as this one for free and put them into action, and action is the key word here. Work, work, work. Learn, and work some more. Never stop learning.
        Sign up to the squidoo group of Tiffany Dow on facebook.

        by the way, you don't even have to pay anything. She's
        formed the group all for free.

        all the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    What annoys me is the "Ill teach you how to make $1,000 method"

    IM'er - Dude, wanna learn how to make $1,000?

    Noob - Yeah sure, how....?

    IM'er - Give me $1,000 and I'll show you.

    Noob - Okay, here. Now what do I do?

    IM'er - You do what I just did, idiot.

    THIS IS BS!
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      What annoys me is the "Ill teach you how to make $1,000 method"
      IM'er - Dude, wanna learn how to make $1,000?
      Noob - Yeah sure, how....?
      IM'er - Give me $1,000 and I'll show you.
      Noob - Okay, here. Now what do I do?
      IM'er - You do what I just did, idiot.
      THIS IS BS!
      as much as that is true, also keep in mind people can only sell BS for as long as there is a demand, so while there is a steady steam of BS shoppers / dream chasers there will be BS sellers.

      The other side of the coin is there are some out there who offer good information and learning skills / mentor related services that are worth every penny. These people are not offering silver bullets just quiet wisdom and guidance.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      What annoys me is the "Ill teach you how to make $1,000 method"

      IM'er - Dude, wanna learn how to make $1,000?

      Noob - Yeah sure, how....?

      IM'er - Give me $1,000 and I'll show you.

      Noob - Okay, here. Now what do I do?

      IM'er - You do what I just did, idiot.

      THIS IS BS!
      This reminds me of the time back in 1991 or so - young family, money tight, mortgage payment, 2 cars...

      I needed to make extra money didn't relish the thought of taking on a second job. So, one Sunday morning, I read an ad in the paper telling me I could make money from home stuffing envelopes. I just needed to send $14.95 to the address.

      6 weeks later I received an overstuffed envelope with poorly photocopied pages of...something and a note which basically said to run an ad in the paper, collect the checks, photocopy the sheets and send them out.

      Seems silly to have "fallen" for that, but I was naive then. I consider myself lucky that it ONLY cost me 15 bucks.

      But the reason I did was pretty much like described below:


      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      as much as that is true, also keep in mind people can only sell BS for as long as there is a demand, so while there is a steady steam of BS shoppers / dream chasers there will be BS sellers.

      The other side of the coin is there are some out there who offer good information and learning skills / mentor related services that are worth every penny. These people are not offering silver bullets just quiet wisdom and guidance.
      I was desperate, but I didn't want to work for the money. I "got suckered" because I suckered myself on a dream.

      Fast forward to 2004 or 2005 - been trying to make money on line for a while by this point. Had small successes. Then I "met" a fellow Warrior who convinced me I needed a mentor and that he was it. I did some "due diligence" and decided to take a chance.

      About 5 figures later I had realized that he wasn't really what he claimed and that I was not the first or last one to get ripped off.

      I was angry, but decided that I would learn from this, and also make sure no one else would get sucked in by his B.S. I know for a fact that I kept no less than 7 people from paying him a dime.

      So I certainly understand the anger directed at those who sell nothing but sizzle and no substance.

      But this is the best advice I can give ... don't focus so hard on all the bad that's out there. Don't ignore it...but don't let it make you look so hard for the bad that you totally miss the good.

      As much as it hurt me to a) lose all that money and b) realize that the person who I paid, that called himself my teacher, and who I called a friend was really neither a teacher OR a friend, I decided to use that experience to the best of my ability. By keeping others away, opening their eyes, AND helping others myself.

      If my focus remained on all the negative things, I would not have seen all of the AWESOME people that HAVE helped me over the years. And interestingly, the ones who have helped me the most have never charged me a cent. And that includes many "guru's" who we all know.

      Remember - hard work IS required to make this work. But so is focus and attitude. Belief in yourself and belief that not everyone is bad or out to get you.

      Thanks Andy for a marvelous post.
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    • Profile picture of the author mayapearl
      LOL! That's exactly what it is all about. Selling get rich quick schemes: get rich quick by telling dreamers to part with their hard earned cash and.... show them how to set up a get rich scam er.....scheme.
      I have yet to meet anyone who got wealthy by buying into any of it, usually those people who made it work very hard at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Right On Andy!

    Exactly people come online and get swayed by the hopes and dreams the "sizzle" the reality is this is business like any business it requires work and effort yes the results will come and yes money will be made but I made this mistake when I first started in IM I made a lot of money selling old toys but came across a sales letter one day that sold "sizzle" or in other words "hype" man I hate hype. anyhow I was led to believe all I had to do was add traffic and I would make cash. Wrong the product never sold one unit in aquite a while after thousands of hits. Obviously I was not doing something right or the product was not a product that had a high demand.

    The reality is No One is going to hand you the keys to success with the house and car and million dollar bank roll too. effort perseverance a willingness to fail a willingess to learn and ask for help when needed is the crux of succeeding. a lot of research testing etc.
    Thank you for this awesome post I vote it should be made sticky!
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author Marius_Puluikis
    wow..really good stuff here. Thanks a lot!
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    • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
      Ye Olde Saying: Rome wasn't built in a day but it also wasn't built on its own.

      Great post Andy.

      Now everyone that's read it just needs to learn how to maximize their output. And anyone that isn't thinking how to do that is in for a very long haul.

      I think great advice to add to the end would have been:

      Teamwork Can Enhance the Online Payroll Process

      Never read the article but the title says a lot.
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      Started this stuff 2009. Time is what will teach you the skills you need.

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  • Profile picture of the author lexilexi
    I love this thread - and it's perfect timing as this has been on my mind like crazy. Reason being, I created a 340-page eBook in the Make Money niche. I wanted it to be the "antidote" to a lot of the thin products out there and I put a years' work into it. D'ya think I could sell the damn thing? Plenty of steak - but truth be told I was so determined not to "hype" the product that compared to all the other sizzle out there, my product didn't make enough noise. I can't bring myself to sell that way and I hate the feeling of overselling.

    Seems there is a lot of money to be made playing to the fantasies of the masses - and there always has been. However, there are still a lot of people online who make real money providing real solutions. There's probably a lot of people staring at the computer screen round the clock though, thinking the windfall is just around the corner.

    I think the answer is the old adage that the best way to get rich is to solve some problem others have. For real, not just selling something that promises that it will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zabrina
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    There are 2 pieces of advice I would like to humbly offer you today.

    1 - Don't underestimate the amount and consistency of work that is being done by people who seem to be 'easily and quickly' making great money.

    2 - Before you invest yourself fully into your online activities (this is something you need to do really) when you get to the point where you've read about or heard of an 'easy' way to make money - take a deep breath, sit down somewhere quiet and be really honest with yourself and ask this question - "Do I really KNOW what the plan for my online business is? (are you hoping to pay your mortgage, or support your family) and will the activities I'm planning to do be able to get me there? if I'm not sure - are they activities that I can measure and be able to tell whether I need to supplement/replace them at some point?"
    This is my favourite part of a great post.

    Luckily for me, when I first got into IM (and even now), I was very skeptical. I questioned everything, and that's probably why I didn't go broke on IM products.

    I recently sat down to rethink my business plan just like you said. Though I didn't use those exact guidelines, I did something similar and considered exactly where I wanted to be and when, then how I could get there, and what I would do instead if things didn't work out. I felt a lot more on-track afterwards. Even if you have one, it's worth going over your plan again if you haven't recently.
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  • Profile picture of the author kucaimas
    nice article i've read it all over..
    so where we can start if we don't have any basic of IM?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by kucaimas View Post

      nice article i've read it all over..
      so where we can start if we don't have any basic of IM?
      The first place to start is to ask yourself - "what is my goal and what skills, resources do I have to get me there?"

      IM is just information and tools that you - use on your business.

      Many people seem to think that IM is a business in itself, but unless you're already an expert and able to get results for other people - IM is just a set of tools.

      As with any other tools - unless you decide what job you're trying to do - you don't know which tools to get out.

      This is the same with IM - and one of the reasons so many people get confused and have information overload.

      Without your plan and goals, it's almost impossible to tell which IM aspects you need to understand/use.

      It's like me asking you to pack a bag because we're going on a trip - unless you know whether it's a hot place, a cold place, how long the stay is, are there any special requirements, are there shops there etc.. you could pack your whole house and still end up not having what you need.

      You need to decide first what you think IM is and why you believe it is something that you need or that can help you.

      A lot of people come into IM treating it like it is everything and run around getting advice on 'what works' (that's a whole other subject) and then ask - what's the best.....xxx.

      The truth is - there is no 'best' anything.

      Only YOU are in the position to know what suits you and your plans.

      So - get your plan together first, otherwise you'll end up getting 100 different suggestions and you'll waste a bunch of time doing things just because other people said they work and still be no closer to knowing whether you're building the life you dream of or just spending more time without moving forward.

      It's a bad trap as once you've waste a lot of time you can fall into the trap of telling yourself that it's ok because "I've been learning" and keep justifying to yourself that it's a journey and you can't expect quick results - when in fact you're riding a horse that wants to go one way and trying to get him to go a different way - you may think you're getting somewhere because of your effort, but if you just got off and found a horse that wants to go your way - you'll get there a lot easier.

      (for anyone that missed that - don't just copy what others are doing - they may be using a strategy that doesn't suit you and their results are no indication of what you will get).

      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author bjradioguy
    This has to be one of the BEST posts I have read on the Warrior Forum in a long time. I do not think there ws onething in the whole post that I would disagree with in the least.

    If you are going to do IM, it is going to take a tremendous amount of time and effort. Just as in any other business, it takes time and effort... well unless you win the lottery and I have not seen an IM lottery yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author luckystar
    Hello,

    What a warning to the newbies and a remainder to the oldbies.

    thanks for that wonderful post.
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    People are use to putting X amount of work in for X dollars, from their regular work. It can be so challenging to jump into IM and not see a return for awhile. Even when you make $$$, often you have to wait months to see your first check mailed to you.

    I use to do a lot of therapy with people, some being done online, and I worked with quite a few people who were struggling with completing long-term projects such as building a website or online business.

    The reality though is that it really is possible, you just need to focus on that and keep pushing...don't become one of the people that give up!

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    Hi warriors,

    This post is for newbies to the forum and IM in general.

    You may have heard the term 'sell the sizzle not the steak'? (it means if you're selling something sell the exciting part rather than just give boring description of the product itself)

    Well - I'm just here to warn you that much of the sizzle you're being sold doesn't actually come with steak.

    Here's a reality check.

    Most people in IM are not making money. Probably 90% of those who are - are making less than they're spending on IM stuff.

    Of that remaining 10% - probably half of them are not making enough for it to be their only income.

    Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.

    Now, I know you're being fed sizzle that says - here's how to make a few grand in a few days, and yes it is possible - I've done it and even shared how I did it, but......

    Even when someone says it and it's true - it's not the reality for most people that try to copy it.

    I'm not just saying this from personal experience - I get out and about a lot and meet people, other IMers who are working hard to make money - most of them are not really making any money.

    The real kicker to this is - that is regardless of what tools, courses and systems they've bought which promise to short-cut their success.

    These tools, systems, courses, ebooks, videos etc.... will not suddenly make you great money.

    The MAIN factor that will effect your success is - HOW MUCH WORK YOU DO.

    Now, obviously there's a certain amount of knowledge required and many people are buying information products and coaching etc to short cut their knowledge gathering - that's absolutely fine and a good idea.

    But I'm telling you - if you think that you're just waiting until you finish your first ebook - then you'll be rich, don't kid yourself. 70% of IMers have written at least one ebook and even if they sold some, it usually doesn't last and it's just a tiny part of making money.

    What you don't see is just how MUCH people making money really do.

    For instance - I have several hundred websites of my own and several hundreds blogs and social accounts etc...

    Why? because it means that I don't need to rely on anyone else for me to be able to get traffic, links and sales to my own products.

    The biggest problem most people have is being able to turn their traffic on when they need. If you have that targeted traffic tap - then you can always make money.

    The problem is - it takes time to build it.

    I know that people are always telling you to get this tool or that system - the thing is - did you notice how every one of them seems to be the 'only one you need' or 'the best tool of its kind' - and the underlyng assumption is that it's all you need.

    The Twitter tools are a classic example - as soon as a few marketers realised that Twitter is popular and people will buy stuff if you tell them they now need twitter and the latest Twitter abuse tools - they create whatever they think is what people want to see and sell the hell out of it.

    It probably won't surprise you to hear that most of the Twitter 'automatic adder' tools will get your account banned. Twitter hates people abusing their systems the same as Google does.

    These tools are not the answer to your problems.

    They're adding to your problems.

    With all that said - we're making the situation worse every time we buy into the latest hype or tool.

    The things you're doing to 'help' yourself are the very things that are sabotaging your success.

    Looking for shortcuts all the time is NOT the way to be successful - can you imagine an olympic athlete saying "I'm going to stay in bed today instead of my morning run - I have this drink that says it will give me energy when I need it", or for that matter a farmer who waits until 2 weeks before harvest and then tries to quickly grow his crops at the last minute because he couldn't be bothered to put the time in and plant them when they should have been.

    You need a plan - a plan that actually points you to a successful result. Not some generic thing that 'should get you 'some' results.

    If you went to your bank manager and said "I need $5k to start an online business" and he asked "so can you show me how and when you'll make that back" and your answer was "well, I'm going to spend $2k on this traffic course, then pay some people I don't know below minimum wage to write articles for me and then just watch the cash roll in" what his reaction would be?

    There are 2 pieces of advice I would like to humbly offer you today.

    1 - Don't underestimate the amount and consistency of work that is being done by people who seem to be 'easily and quickly' making great money.

    2 - Before you invest yourself fully into your online activities (this is something you need to do really) when you get to the point where you've read about or heard of an 'easy' way to make money - take a deep breath, sit down somewhere quiet and be really honest with yourself and ask this question - "Do I really KNOW what the plan for my online business is? (are you hoping to pay your mortgage, or support your family) and will the activities I'm planning to do be able to get me there? if I'm not sure - are they activities that I can measure and be able to tell whether I need to supplement/replace them at some point?"

    People will tell you all sorts of things, usually for the right reasons, often out of enthusiasm or excitement - but most of it will not be true for you.

    Don't base your business and your dreams on what people are telling you. Use your brain, assess things for yourself and make a plan that's right for YOU.

    Certainly model the success of others but don't expect copying people or buying the latest "how to make $5 in 5 days" WSO will answer your problems.

    Ask yourself the questions that challenge whether someone is trying to make you cut corners and not do your business in the way you know really needs to be done.

    Take your business seriously and don't kid yourself that hard work is involved. Almost ANY IM money making strategy will work if you just get focused and take consistent action in a direction that you understand and can see how and why it will work.

    Don't waste your money buying lots of tools - they're just there to help you be more effective once you already know what works for you.

    And don't be afraid for ask for help - working with others makes your IM journey MUCH more fun.

    Andy
    Awesome post Andy! It makes me think about making a more detailed plan and about how much harder I need to work at this whole IM thing! I have so much more to learn and it almost gets overwhelming!

    I haven't made much money at all since I have started back last year. I think most of it is because of still needing to learn, but if I stop and think about it, I could work much harder. Thanks for posting this! Puts things back in perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoobie
    Yeah great post! But when you are using these auto tools, use them with care.. and make sure you are interacting with your friends rather than you know just abusing them.
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  • Excellent post and thread. Like any other business, you have to be willing to eat some losses for a year or two. Unlike any other business, you don't need a lot of money to start off and can get paid years into the future for work that you do today.

    People might buy the sizzle, but if the steak is good, they'll keep buying for years to come. You can't think short-term and expect to survive and thrive in this business or in this economy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Walter
    Awesome post Andy, RESPECT!
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    • Profile picture of the author sande
      Thank you, thank you and thank you. Reality check for everyone starting out online and thank you that it is not a newbie bashing thread but the TRUTH the real truth. It has taken me a along time to realize this, but as it sinks in, I have either to choose to stick it out or quit.

      This is an analogy I have had this past week. It is like I am on a river bank all lost no boat to cross, there is a storm and it is a land where I do not understand the language. I either sit down and wait to die or get up and try find out a plan that will work to keep me alive. I either quit or do something....I had to read think and grow rich and stop buying hope in the name of buying products.

      Thank you for wake up call.
      Sande
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  • Profile picture of the author mariahm
    You just made my day. I love everything you say in this post. It is so true. It takes ALOT of work to make money. Every day if you even just do one thing towards the goals you have set out eventually you will begin to see the benefits.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    If you are referring to the general "get rich quick " dream, then yes its a load of BS.

    You need knowledge, a plan, and a clear mindset. I mentioned in a book I wrote that there are a large group of people out there who are just chasing a dream without having a sense of reality. They buy a WSO, read it, do a bit, then buy another WSO. Always chasin the next thing, the big thing, the easy thing.

    They are basically just bloody lazy and looking for a quick win.

    What fascinates me is the endless lemming effect this forum has on some. You see the WSO's claiming the same broad things, and the same people lapping them up. Every WSO that promises the earth is a lie. "six figure guides" are invariably just a weak 30 pages on creating a site, doing some SEO and using stuff everyone uses anyway. Reading one is enough, yet they are churned out week after week, and people buy them.

    I recently wrestled with my conscience. I looked a at few WSO's and thought "I could just re-write these and churn one out a week". Money in the bank, but utterly deceitful to the people uying them, yet that is how other make a ton of money - selling a BS dream of easy cash. So I don't, I write quality guides that take me up to three months to perfect.

    Do I make as much as the people selling BS "six figure" guides? Probably not. Its taken me 18 months of hard work to get to the stage where I now earn more than I did employed in four hours a day, hard, hard work and constant learning, and I have a clear conscience because I spent time building things I believe will help others 110%.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jim Hudson
      Following along with the original post, try to make a plan that will go along the general lines of what you are trying to do. There is no easy way to riches. I can say that I have tried some of the so called easy methods and they are making a living off of you, that is it. Read posts on this forum and learn from what methods or software is mentioned by name. I will mention them here so you can go to the search bar and start typing. If you want to use blogs and have them autopost, study which plugins that are free that will help you. Like unique article wizard plugin.

      Building traffic is the key, and having content that won't get flagged will give you and edge. Then the next key is getting some backlinks. I use the packages from Angela and Paul, search for these on the forum. There are also some free packs and cheap ones too, like a dollar that will help.

      Giving an honest referral, I will mention one warrior in particular that I have dealt with that will help with autoblogging and I recommend his service or WSO. Search for 4freedom and find Rob Fore's autoblogging on steroids. An inexpensive program that does work.

      Bottom line is finding as much help here as you can and not spending money like a drunken sailor chasing an elusive dream. I have been at the internet thing since the 1990's and first took computer classes in 1989. I have chosen a path that I must stay focused on, that is the key is to not waiver from the plan.

      The key to getting this type of program to work is exactly that...WORK. it is not easy and you will find you see results if you stick to a path or plan that promotes the end goal.

      The next item on my list that I am shopping for is an auto commenting software program. This should help in my backlinking. I have a plan, and am shopping and working at the same time. When I need a break from building blogs or back link packs, I come here to study, read and learn from so many that have a lot more knowledge than I.
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      • Profile picture of the author Pacman131
        Excellent post for noobs!
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      • Profile picture of the author wolverine1971
        It takes a lot of work to see results and too many newbies get caught in the trap of reading long sales letters and not actually putting any work in. Most people quit also thinking that they can simply work a few hours and get paid but being successful at internet marketing requires putting in serious sweat equity. More newbies need to invest their time in hours on doing the hard stuff and marketing rather than searching and reading for the next big thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author kcclark
    now this is the kind of information that will change the IM business and make it more appealing and worthwhile
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    • Great post. The lesson here is to stop looking around; and instead to believe in yourself, look inward and take some serious action - "Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right"!
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        ...The same goes for the term Guru - some people I see called gurus I consider less knowledgeable than some people who still think of themselves as newbies.
        To tell you the truth, Andy, I don't think the world "guru" has a lot of meaning anymore. It gets thrown around so loosely it seems to only mean "anyone who knows more that the person using it."

        Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

        ...This really doesnt sit well with me at all. I need to know that people out there ARE infact making good money actually SELLING information products online, and not just selling the CONCEPT.
        Johnny, if not for selling information products I'd have to get a JOB. Most of my ebooks aren't about IM, not directly anyway. They're about web design, writing, and other topics of interest to webmasters, but only a few are about making money online. So rest assured, people are making money selling information products that aren't about selling the system.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mitchymoo
    I think this post is invaluable, I see so many posts saying make $1000 in x days and it just makes me shake my head. I mean if it were that easy then everyone would be doing it. I'm from a dropshipping background and have seen so many people trying to make a quick buck. Well guess what? IT DOESN'T WORK! What annoys me the most is people don't treat it like a business and when they lose money on it they immediately call it a scam.
    One thing I always say to people is "If it looks to good to be true, it usually is". Why should IM be any different?
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    • Profile picture of the author JaySchmidt
      Thanks for the great post!

      One of the strongest -- and most insidious -- IM strategies is affiliate marketing. Its strength lies in the social proof generated by legions of ruthless affiliates, many of whom won't hesitate to use absurd levels of hype to sell a product.

      When a newbie comes across literally dozens of different websites which all praise a product, they almost can't help but purchase it. It's only later, after newbies realize that they were taken in by an affiliate's exaggerations, that the disillusionment sets in.

      Often, affiliates will make outlandish claims about a product; claims that the product creator is unwilling to make.

      So, don't fall into the trap of believing an affiliate's hype and spin.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulBaranowski
      Andy and all,

      So much truth in this thread.

      The biggest problem with the so-called Internet Marketing market is
      a pitch-fest of the hypey sales letters chasing their victims who get excited at the idea of getting rich in 4 days, 7 days, 30 days...
      And the saddest thing is people believe that bull to the point of spending multiple grands on this.And the stupider thing is once people fail,they go buy other course/coaching instead of doing one thing that made the millionaires what they are - and that is working their butt off TAKING ACTION, making 100 mistakes before they hit the jackpot - and that's exactly what those sales letters never tell you.
      BUT,i'm against that "work more" motto - i advocate the "work smarter" approach.You can start making money in 60-90 days( I had mine in 3 months once i did what my mentor told me to) - provided you follow the proven system,don't jump from one product to another and don't quit
      after your first or even third website didn't make money - fail forward fast
      and don't feel like a loser when you made a mistake - all of today's millionaires were there - just read the autobiography book by Richard Branson"Loosing my virginity" to see you're not alone!:-)

      Have success,
      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author ribas4
      Originally Posted by Jacob Anthony View Post

      I think this post is invaluable, I see so many posts saying make $1000 in x days and it just makes me shake my head. I mean if it were that easy then everyone would be doing it. I'm from a dropshipping background and have seen so many people trying to make a quick buck. Well guess what? IT DOESN'T WORK! What annoys me the most is people don't treat it like a business and when they lose money on it they immediately call it a scam.
      One thing I always say to people is "If it looks to good to be true, it usually is". Why should IM be any different?
      absolutely agree, thanks for sharing...
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    • Profile picture of the author taffie
      Yah! This was a great post, one of the best I have seen in a while. I couldn't have said it better
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Cash Rebel
      I love this thread! I recently just went back to doing "The Basics" using consistency. It is easy to get caught up in the sizzle. It keeps you from falling victim to slaps and rule changes.

      Thanks for the posts!
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    • Profile picture of the author Agoge Warrior
      The most important quote in what the author of this thread stated?

      "HOW MUCH WORK YOU DO"

      If you do that, you will succeed and can make good money from online marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author PeterBoston
      Good thread. It takes a while to learn that micro sites make micro money. That doesn't mean that micro sites cannot be a good business model, just that people who go with this model should be realistic with their expectations.
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    • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
      And don't be afraid for ask for help - working with others makes your IM journey MUCH more fun.
      ANDY is one smart dude. I just wonder why everyone seems to miss the most important element of success: People. People need people to succeed at anything beyond mediocre. You cannot do anything great alone. It's never been done in the history of mankind, ever. Every company, large or small hires help. There's a reason for that.

      Does anyone else believe people need people to succeed? Or does everyone know that, tried it and found out people are too much trouble to get along with? You'll just pass and do it yourself. Is that it?

      I set up a Micro-Blog called Human Capital for anyone who wants to work together AS A TEAM to make money doing whatever they currently do with one major difference. Exchange ideas and services that improve and help each other's business grow. Isn't that what "friends" are supposed to do? Help each other?

      Contact everyone on your "friends" lists all over the internet and start doing what "friends" do. Otherwise what are all those "friends" lists for? Permission for you to sell ME something? Is that why people want to be added to your "friends" list?

      How about HELP ME SELL something to a customer after we both do some work to get some traffic to both of our websites? I'm on your "friends" list NOT your customer list...why do they get that twisted? When did those two lists merge?

      For example: You hate writing articles but you love posting comments. Trade services with someone on your "friends" list who loves article marketing and you post comments for their business.

      When everyone does what they do best, the end result is the best it can be. Otherwise, it's mediocre.
      And it won't cost you a penny and it's more FUN.
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      When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Richnana
    I just submitted an article with the title "The Best Deal Ever Is The Worse Deal Without Traffic. You reiterated a lot of the points I wanted to make in that article. Wish I had seen your post because what you say is absolutely true.

    You words will keep a lot of new and seasoned Internet marketers on the right path(hopefully). I have become alot cynical of the claims and promises that we make in our marketing efforts. I think the fact that you have created hundreds of websites so that you can link and get traffic is a great idea.. But it is expensive for most new entrepreneurs.

    The truth is that people spend money on what they want rather than what they need because most new marketers don't know what they really need to be succcessful. When they find out from a successful marketer (using you as an example) it is a steep learning curve and a lot of work is involved. This turns many would be successful marketers off. We WANT the easy way... We NEED the real foundation of learning to build the business from the ground up. Crating our own traffic and our own products and Waiting for the fruits of our labor to bloom.

    That's the hard part of marketing...Thanks for an excellent post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Richnana View Post

      I just submitted an article with the title "The Best Deal Ever Is The Worse Deal Without Traffic. You reiterated a lot of the points I wanted to make in that article. Wish I had seen your post because what you say is absolutely true.

      You words will keep a lot of new and seasoned Internet marketers on the right path(hopefully). I have become alot cynical of the claims and promises that we make in our marketing efforts. I think the fact that you have created hundreds of websites so that you can link and get traffic is a great idea.. But it is expensive for most new entrepreneurs.

      The truth is that people spend money on what they want rather than what they need because most new marketers don't know what they really need to be succcessful. When they find out from a successful marketer (using you as an example) it is a steep learning curve and a lot of work is involved. This turns many would be successful marketers off. We WANT the easy way... We NEED the real foundation of learning to build the business from the ground up. Crating our own traffic and our own products and Waiting for the fruits of our labor to bloom.

      That's the hard part of marketing...Thanks for an excellent post.
      You're right.

      The key to making sense of that overload is to just keep it simple.

      Create a model that scales - do things for free to start - there are LOTS of places that will let you set up a blog, a website, a lense, etc.. for nothing - so you can have web properties that you can add links to without paying a dime - ever if you really want.

      Just start small and scale up - as the money starts - buy things that help your productivity. Rinse and repeat.

      Andy
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author JohnS88
        Well said. It'd definitely be nice if all it took to make money on the internet was buying an ebook and doing a few hours of work, but sadly, this is far from the reality of things.

        There really is a problem when it comes to the average idea of IM and what it takes to make real money. Someone just entering the IM world will most likely buy into the fact that they can make thousands every month by JUST WORKING 2 HOURS A DAY DOING INCREDIBLY EASY TASKS! The truth is that IM is not easy (in regards to the work that needs to be done), there is a ton of work to take care of...on a consistent basis, and if you really want to build a solid income, you need to do more of the same. Essentially, lots and lots of work.

        There are ways to lessen the work load but until you know what needs to be done and are doing these things consistently, they aren't much use.
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        • Profile picture of the author McGruff
          Thank you for a great thread that the gurus probably don't want us to read. The reality of the message here contradicts the goal of guru sales letters.. because the guru sales letters rely on emotion to be successful.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by McGruff View Post

            Thank you for a great thread that the gurus probably don't want us to read. The reality of the message here contradicts the goal of guru sales letters.. because the guru sales letters rely on emotion to be successful.
            That's the truth.

            Any copy writer worth their salt will be trying to hit your emotional hot buttons - but the simple fact is - emotions have the effect of clouding your judgement and reducing your ability to make logical decisions, so any decision you make while in an emotional state is likely to look different in the light of day.

            This is why companies are required to give you a 'cooling off' period, to protect you from people abusing your like this.

            Also - when it comes to learning, the most significant learning usually takes place after the emotions have died down.

            I think it's important to be able to enjoy getting emotional - but not at buying time -the same as not going shopping when you're hungry.

            Andy
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            nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewStark
    Andy,

    Great post, when I first started I got stung for $5k worth of mentoring, and looking back it was honestly terrible. I had some guy phone me up once a week and tell me to just copy sites that I liked. It wasn't until I found forums and people actually sharing good information that I realised how badly I'd been ripped off.

    I think that the credit crunch has hit these people hard, those who chase the dream are now up to their neck in debt, so hopefully natural selection will kick in.

    My aim for this year is to create a clickbank product and get out and meet more people, you can learn so much over a beer about who to trust and who to aviod.
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  • Profile picture of the author soniia21
    Thanks for this brilliant post!!!

    It's so true, IM does take A LOT of hard work, effort and persistance. Even if someone gives you the advice and tools to do something - you STILL have to do it to make it work!

    Thanks again!
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  • Profile picture of the author ivel96792
    97% marketers are losing!

    Knowing that... if you are in network marketing (mlm) and you have not referred a super-affiliate in 3-months, get out now while you're ahead. On the otherhand, if you are an affiliate (non mlm) you won't have to get yourself a super-whatevers and will have a better chance at earning 4-figures a/mo (like me). If the affiliate product is in high demand and the affiliate program has been in business for 5 or more years on the internet you will most definitely earn a mild monthly income. Simple and serious advice: DO NOT fall for ANY earn $5-6-7 figures a/mo 'potentials' - it will not happen! Ok?

    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    Hi warriors,

    This post is for newbies to the forum and IM in general.

    You may have heard the term 'sell the sizzle not the steak'? (it means if you're selling something sell the exciting part rather than just give boring description of the product itself)

    Well - I'm just here to warn you that much of the sizzle you're being sold doesn't actually come with steak.

    Here's a reality check.

    Most people in IM are not making money. Probably 90% of those who are - are making less than they're spending on IM stuff.

    Of that remaining 10% - probably half of them are not making enough for it to be their only income.

    Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.

    Now, I know you're being fed sizzle that says - here's how to make a few grand in a few days, and yes it is possible - I've done it and even shared how I did it, but......

    Even when someone says it and it's true - it's not the reality for most people that try to copy it.

    I'm not just saying this from personal experience - I get out and about a lot and meet people, other IMers who are working hard to make money - most of them are not really making any money.

    The real kicker to this is - that is regardless of what tools, courses and systems they've bought which promise to short-cut their success.

    These tools, systems, courses, ebooks, videos etc.... will not suddenly make you great money.

    The MAIN factor that will effect your success is - HOW MUCH WORK YOU DO.

    Now, obviously there's a certain amount of knowledge required and many people are buying information products and coaching etc to short cut their knowledge gathering - that's absolutely fine and a good idea.

    But I'm telling you - if you think that you're just waiting until you finish your first ebook - then you'll be rich, don't kid yourself. 70% of IMers have written at least one ebook and even if they sold some, it usually doesn't last and it's just a tiny part of making money.

    What you don't see is just how MUCH people making money really do.

    For instance - I have several hundred websites of my own and several hundreds blogs and social accounts etc...

    Why? because it means that I don't need to rely on anyone else for me to be able to get traffic, links and sales to my own products.

    The biggest problem most people have is being able to turn their traffic on when they need. If you have that targeted traffic tap - then you can always make money.

    The problem is - it takes time to build it.

    I know that people are always telling you to get this tool or that system - the thing is - did you notice how every one of them seems to be the 'only one you need' or 'the best tool of its kind' - and the underlyng assumption is that it's all you need.

    The Twitter tools are a classic example - as soon as a few marketers realised that Twitter is popular and people will buy stuff if you tell them they now need twitter and the latest Twitter abuse tools - they create whatever they think is what people want to see and sell the hell out of it.

    It probably won't surprise you to hear that most of the Twitter 'automatic adder' tools will get your account banned. Twitter hates people abusing their systems the same as Google does.

    These tools are not the answer to your problems.

    They're adding to your problems.

    With all that said - we're making the situation worse every time we buy into the latest hype or tool.

    The things you're doing to 'help' yourself are the very things that are sabotaging your success.

    Looking for shortcuts all the time is NOT the way to be successful - can you imagine an olympic athlete saying "I'm going to stay in bed today instead of my morning run - I have this drink that says it will give me energy when I need it", or for that matter a farmer who waits until 2 weeks before harvest and then tries to quickly grow his crops at the last minute because he couldn't be bothered to put the time in and plant them when they should have been.

    You need a plan - a plan that actually points you to a successful result. Not some generic thing that 'should get you 'some' results.

    If you went to your bank manager and said "I need $5k to start an online business" and he asked "so can you show me how and when you'll make that back" and your answer was "well, I'm going to spend $2k on this traffic course, then pay some people I don't know below minimum wage to write articles for me and then just watch the cash roll in" what his reaction would be?

    There are 2 pieces of advice I would like to humbly offer you today.

    1 - Don't underestimate the amount and consistency of work that is being done by people who seem to be 'easily and quickly' making great money.

    2 - Before you invest yourself fully into your online activities (this is something you need to do really) when you get to the point where you've read about or heard of an 'easy' way to make money - take a deep breath, sit down somewhere quiet and be really honest with yourself and ask this question - "Do I really KNOW what the plan for my online business is? (are you hoping to pay your mortgage, or support your family) and will the activities I'm planning to do be able to get me there? if I'm not sure - are they activities that I can measure and be able to tell whether I need to supplement/replace them at some point?"

    People will tell you all sorts of things, usually for the right reasons, often out of enthusiasm or excitement - but most of it will not be true for you.

    Don't base your business and your dreams on what people are telling you. Use your brain, assess things for yourself and make a plan that's right for YOU.

    Certainly model the success of others but don't expect copying people or buying the latest "how to make $5 in 5 days" WSO will answer your problems.

    Ask yourself the questions that challenge whether someone is trying to make you cut corners and not do your business in the way you know really needs to be done.

    Take your business seriously and don't kid yourself that hard work is involved. Almost ANY IM money making strategy will work if you just get focused and take consistent action in a direction that you understand and can see how and why it will work.

    Don't waste your money buying lots of tools - they're just there to help you be more effective once you already know what works for you.

    And don't be afraid for ask for help - working with others makes your IM journey MUCH more fun.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author cringwall
      There will always be people who want to get thin, beautiful or rich overnight. If you offer a product that takes some explaining on how it will benefit the buyer - it will sell - albeit to a smaller group of more thoughtful buyers.

      However, outrageous claims appeal to our basic propensities to want what we want - now. And properly applied, this strategy simply sells more stuff to the masses.

      So take you pick of which approach you want, I won't judge you.
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  • Profile picture of the author YseUp
    What I don't get is that I bet there are a lot of people like me who are genuinely interested in learning how to make say $20 to $50 a day from IM in a semi-passive way (and not by selling time by writing articles)... not thousands of dollars a month.

    And I'm willing to work 12 hours a day for that. Seriously.

    But that's not what's being provided (Don't get me wrong, no one owes it to me).

    Just endless make $1249... in 24 hrs.

    ...ok just have to ask.

    What method do people reccomend for building up a stream of around $30 dollars a day say after 1 month of 8 to 12 hours a day. LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by YseUp View Post

      What I don't get is that I bet there are a lot of people like me who are genuinely interested in learning how to make say $20 to $50 a day from IM in a semi-passive way (and not by selling time by writing articles)... not thousands of dollars a month.

      And I'm willing to work 12 hours a day for that. Seriously.

      But that's not what's being provided (Don't get me wrong, no one owes it to me).

      Just endless make $1249... in 24 hrs.

      ...ok just have to ask.

      What method do people reccomend for building up a stream of around $30 dollars a day say after 1 month of 8 to 12 hours a day. LOL
      The question is simple but the answer is not. Truth be told, there are many methods that can bring in that kind of money, but not every method will suit you. No one knows what your strengths and weaknesses are, except you. We don't know what you'd be good at or what you'd struggle with. We don't know what would excite you or bore you.

      Let me put it a different way...find what interests you the most and start studying that. When you have specific questions, ask them, someone will probably help. But you have to choose your path, we can't do that for you, not with any authority anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author tro2
      Originally Posted by YseUp View Post

      What I don't get is that I bet there are a lot of people like me who are genuinely interested in learning how to make say $20 to $50 a day from IM in a semi-passive way (and not by selling time by writing articles)... not thousands of dollars a month.

      And I'm willing to work 12 hours a day for that. Seriously.

      But that's not what's being provided (Don't get me wrong, no one owes it to me).

      Just endless make $1249... in 24 hrs.

      ...ok just have to ask.

      What method do people reccomend for building up a stream of around $30 dollars a day say after 1 month of 8 to 12 hours a day. LOL
      I was thinking the same thing this morning. I know the "big money in X days" claims are bogus but when you're getting started it is easy to get overwhelmed with the amount of information out there. When you're looking to take step one, two and three, a WSO can trick you into thinking you're cutting through the clutter.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by tro2 View Post

        I was thinking the same thing this morning. I know the "big money in X days" claims are bogus but when you're getting started it is easy to get overwhelmed with the amount of information out there. When you're looking to take step one, two and three, a WSO can trick you into thinking you're cutting through the clutter.
        Actually whether the claim is bogus or not depends on the person making it.

        I've been able to make claims like that in the past and show people exactly how I did it and how they could attempt the same.

        Not ALL claims are BS, but if you don't know the people making them - you have no way to tell.

        That's why referrals from people you trust are the best way to make buying decisions.

        But it's fair to say that 'most' claims are not going to be something you can reproduce easily.

        Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author ronitdeep
    Thnks andy,this what every newbie should grasp especially who want cheap/quick buck.
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  • Profile picture of the author tommen
    Excellent post Andy! It is not easy to build a business online, it takes countless hours and thousands of articles.If it would be easy everyone would be a internet marketer and make millions online.I have heard that 95% of those who try this will fail, because they quit too soon and get discouraged when they are not making any money by the following day. Those who stick with it and learn from their mistakes will eventually become successful.
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  • Profile picture of the author tanzeelniazi
    thanks for the information
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  • Profile picture of the author breadtoaster
    Thanks, Andy for providing such a long and detailed post for newbies. Really appreciate that!

    Cheers,
    Erica
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    Almost ANY IM money making strategy will work if you just get focused and take consistent action

    Very true and nice post.

    The biggest key is simply to use the information you have instead of trying to gather more.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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    • Profile picture of the author Okane
      IM is just a set of tools that - properly applied - will allow generating lots of money for those who provide value.

      Practicing and mastering this toolset alone won't bring you anywhere.

      You can play with a hammer all day long, it won't build you a house... even if you buy a new hammer every day.


      Marc
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    On a sidenote:

    I think the biggest fallacy of all, is that people assume avoiding hard work is going to bring them pleasure in life. In reality, what happens is your life becomes boring, empty, unrewarding and meaningless.

    I truly believe that the ultimate pleasure in life is working hard and being rewarded for it. Even if you don't make as much money as you think you wanted to, the pleasure of doing rewarding work that pays well and makes a difference is hard to beat.

    Furthermore, many people chase money and never realize that the income levels they are chasing are not really something they need. You may "think" you want £500k per year, but in reality you would be extremely happy with £100k per year. Once you've bought your huge TV, your new home and car...you're left with money that is easily wasted.

    The real key is inner fullfillment, being proud of what you do and sustaining an income for life. That's why I don't think I could comfortably jump on the Clickbank product launch bandwagon, as it's not sustainable, relies on selling stuff to dreamers, and is based on trying to make "x" amount of money...

    ...but at what cost to your soul?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      On a sidenote:

      I think the biggest fallacy of all, is that people assume avoiding hard work is going to bring them pleasure in life. In reality, what happens is your life becomes boring, empty, unrewarding and meaningless.
      Nick - you're my hero today.

      This is exactly right.

      I don't know a single really successful person who would stop what they're doing - just because they have more than enough money.

      When you start out it's easy to be focused on the money and think "once I make money I'm going to sit on a beach and not do anything", but the reality is - in order to be really successful you need to be passionate about the thing you do.

      When that's the case - you don't want to stop.

      I love my current routine. I'm back in the UK and I have what I consider the perfect lifestyle - it consists of several areas of work - they things I love doing and wouldn't want to stop.

      The day I stop enjoying something is the day I stop doing it.

      When I look back over the years of my life - the moments that stand out as ones I cherish and want more of - were times when I was passionately engaged in whatever I was doing at the time.


      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Great post Andy, such a refreshing change and I admire you mate, you can tell you really care about the newbies and want to help them.
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  • Profile picture of the author thomashoi
    Thanks, Andy for this post.

    What you said is very true and it's time for people to wake up and
    stop looking for the magic pill or instant formula that will put money
    into their bank account in days.

    I believe a true internet marketer is like an entrepreneur who always
    keeps up with the trend and look for opportunities to market
    a product that will match with what their target audience wants.

    In less than 24 hours, millions of Americans will be watching the
    Super bowl game on their tv and .....

    what do you think they will likely buy when the game is over?

    More importantly, whichever team that wins, what will the fans
    buy?

    if you can't find products to sell, you could probably blog about
    the Super bowl commercials and sprinkle some adsense ads around....

    you could probably make 10 or 50 bucks? Just try it, you
    never know....

    I did exactly this 2 years back and setup a blog entirely on
    super bowl commercials and guess what?

    I receive a $700 cheque from adsense....
    all with free traffic...

    This may not make you rich but is a good example of
    how to leverage on trends to earn money online!

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raiel Schwartz
    Great post.

    Newbies will fall into the dream of the internet marketing lifestyle. This is good and bad to some degree.

    I started out my online ventures through the Rich Jerk program, if I never was fed the illusions of quick millions I would have never learned about the Warrior Forums and begin to learn about true marketing online.

    Being realistic is key, but so is consistency in your efforts to create the sort of income that you want.

    Like you said, you have to be passionate about this stuff. A real entrepreneurial spirit, because if you aren't going to want to come up with ideas and take risks, then you really aren't in it to be in it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Nick - you're my hero today.

      This is exactly right.

      I don't know a single really successful person who would stop what they're doing - just because they have more than enough money.

      When you start out it's easy to be focused on the money and think "once I make money I'm going to sit on a beach and not do anything", but the reality is - in order to be really successful you need to be passionate about the thing you do.

      When that's the case - you don't want to stop.

      Andy
      Exactly, you only have to look at the Rock stars and movie stars to validate this point. If they were only in it for the money alone, then why do you think multimillionaire actors like Tom Cruise continue to make or star in more and more films?

      I really think this is the overlooked point in our community ...

      People have many misconceptions about money, myself included sometimes. The truth is, the joy that money brings is superficial and short lived. When you're meeting new people or having dinner with your new girlfriend's parents, you won't get much pleasure in saying you trick Google and manipulate websites in order to sell CPA offers ... and even if you tell them that you make 50 grand a month, don't expect them to drop to their knees... because it makes no difference to anybody, not even yourself...

      ... However, you will get immense pleasure in telling them that you run a successful publishing business which is growing by 30% each year, and are generally helps people to " lose weight", " improve their memory", " find a romantic partner" .... " insert niche here".

      The same reason why people support charities, do community work, or run non-profit organisations... because it makes them feel good about themselves, whilst genuinely helping other people at the same time.

      The ironic thing is that if more people just focused on creating a business that sold services and products that genuinely help people, then they would likely find that most of the headaches and confusion of running an online business would dissipate quicker than MLM squeeze pages on Google Adwords.

      In my personal opinion, there's a lot to be said to learning principles of business and marketing from books that you can find on Amazon ...

      ...because you can take that information with you for life, create a business that simply works, and as Andy says, you can always add in tricks and techniques to enhance the framework.

      Sadly, threads like this will only be received by a very small fraction of this forum, this community, and the market in general. That's because, dare I say it, 90% of the people on these forums are just looking for entertainment...

      ... entertainment in the context of dreaming about money.
      ... entertainment in the context of discovering secrets.
      ... entertainment in the context of escapism.

      It all looks good on paper, and just like we can watch Mission Impossible and want to become a spy, the truth is when we leave that cinema, we light up a cigarette and contemplate another day at the 9-to-5 office tomorrow.

      The bottom line, is that you have to make a choice ...

      Do you really want to be in business, and make money by marketing products? If so, are you prepared to work hard enough to deliver value to change people's lives? If so, then you're poised for success..with or without the latest WordPress plug-in or SEO tactic :-)

      (on a side note, this whole issue is part of the reason why people continually posts questions in this forum asking " what do I say when people ask what I do for a living?"... because they don't really have a business.)
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  • Profile picture of the author William Gent
    I am new to this forum and to this business but it was great to read your post. Many friends of mine have fallen into the trap of selling products to their neighbors and family.
    Having just published an e-book, I realized upfront, that the writing part was the easiest and quickest aspect of the project. I am reminded of a best selling author we all know who had to peddle his first book for almost two years before anyone bought it. Everything is a process and success requires dedication, hard work and stamina.
    You make great points. Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author futurestrategy
    Well, that was a useful big post from you.

    I am sure all friends here will find it helpful. I also believe a few of them will have a different outlook about IM now.
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  • People usually get what they deserve. If you're guilable enough to believe that a $7 WSO titled "get rich in 24 hours" can actually make you rich, then you deserve to be scammed for those $7. I am sorry, but without a little bit of common sense you won't get far in this business or any other for that matter.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      People usually get what they deserve. If you're guilable enough to believe that a $7 WSO titled "get rich in 24 hours" can actually make you rich, then you deserve to be scammed for those $7. I am sorry, but without a little bit of common sense you won't get far in this business or any other for that matter.
      Wow.

      So I should probably make sure I don't buy from you then.

      Not expecting someone to be making false claims is a reasonable position to start from.

      Thanks for the warning.
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Wow.

        So I should probably make sure I don't buy from you then.

        Not expecting someone to be making false claims is a reasonable position to start from.

        Thanks for the warning.

        Well, what do you expect from a poster with the name Anonymous Affiliate

        What he (she) didn't really get is that gullibility OR product price many times have very little to do with being taken. He obviously didn't read my post. The amount I was taken for was a bit more than $7 - and it wasn't a result of gullibility (well, not ALL).

        I wasn't promised easy money, fast riches, overnight success, etc. I thought I was getting a mentor and business coach. I knew work would be involved.

        The fact is I was taken by someone who was VERY good at that game. Proven by the fact that I was not the first OR last of his victims.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      People usually get what they deserve. If you're guilable enough to believe that a $7 WSO titled "get rich in 24 hours" can actually make you rich, then you deserve to be scammed for those $7. I am sorry, but without a little bit of common sense you won't get far in this business or any other for that matter.
      This may very well be the...never mind.

      Let me put it this way.

      Some people really don't understand business. It has nothing to do with
      being gullible. I didn't understand when I first started too and was taken in
      by things because they sounded reasonable to me. I had no frame of
      reference so how was I supposed to know?

      I couldn't possibly know.

      As for your comments, I echo Andy's comments. I at least know never
      to buy anything from you...ever.
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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      People usually get what they deserve. If you're guilable enough to believe that a $7 WSO titled "get rich in 24 hours" can actually make you rich, then you deserve to be scammed for those $7. I am sorry, but without a little bit of common sense you won't get far in this business or any other for that matter.

      Hmm This is a comment that could be better off unsaid then posted.

      People are desperate and a lot of the time think with their heart and not their head. people no matter who it is do not deserve to be scammed in any way shape or form.

      To be honest this mentality is what is behind the people doing the scamming and that is a very very scary thing to see here.
      -WD
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    • Profile picture of the author YseUp
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      People usually get what they deserve. If you're guilable enough to believe that a $7 WSO titled "get rich in 24 hours" can actually make you rich, then you deserve to be scammed for those $7. I am sorry, but without a little bit of common sense you won't get far in this business or any other for that matter.
      That really sickens me.

      As someone pointed out us newbies have little frame of reference. We have to put a certain amount of trust into people who post producst in the WSO forum.

      Look, I'm not the kind of person that really believes you can make thousands a week with very little work, so the the couple of WSO's I bought were the most down to earth / realistic ones... and even those made some unreal claims as to how much work it would take (and I factored that in when I bought them). I just increase whaterver time these offers describe by a 1000%

      I know no one owes me to tell me how they make a couple of bucks conistently... I guess I have to figure it out myself.

      But it's sad that at least 1 person creating WSO is blatantly taking advantage of newbies in that way... but of course you are far from the only one.
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  • Profile picture of the author DC Marketing
    Thanks Andy, what a great informative post.
    I'm marking you down in my fav's
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  • Profile picture of the author nakkale
    This is an excellent post. I have been learning IM for more than a year. I have spent a resonable amount of money on IM and have attended a couple of workshops. But I am still struggling to earn a decent income from IM.

    Here on the forum some warriors make comments that they can make $100 a day or $5000 a month blindfolded. It really tricks me and find very hard to believe.

    Is it that easy? or that is just an another sales pitch!

    Very confusing!!

    Nir
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Nick - you're my hero today.

      This is exactly right.

      I don't know a single really successful person who would stop what they're doing - just because they have more than enough money.

      When you start out it's easy to be focused on the money and think "once I make money I'm going to sit on a beach and not do anything", but the reality is - in order to be really successful you need to be passionate about the thing you do.

      When that's the case - you don't want to stop.

      I love my current routine. I'm back in the UK and I have what I consider the perfect lifestyle - it consists of several areas of work - they things I love doing and wouldn't want to stop.

      The day I stop enjoying something is the day I stop doing it.

      When I look back over the years of my life - the moments that stand out as ones I cherish and want more of - were times when I was passionately engaged in whatever I was doing at the time.


      Andy
      Andy, I don't know what you've been smoking lately, but if threads like this are the result, I hope you have a huge stash...

      This above is dead on.

      Back when I was about 20, I spent a winter working my tuchis off to pile up enough cash to take it easy and fish the whole summer. I staked out a campsite, ate most of my meals from the drive-in down the block, napped and read in the sun all day and went out on the charter boat at night.

      I loved it. It was my perfect lifestyle.

      For about two weeks.

      About halfway through the third week, I had to pack things up and go home, and back to work.

      To this day, unless I'm doing a variety of things which challenge me, two weeks is about my limit for "doing nothing on the beach".

      Now, my perfect lifestyle looks more like spending a couple of hours fishing several times a week, working the rest of the time, and shutting things down when my wife gets home from work. Most of the pieces are either staged or in place, so this may be the year I get there.

      Andy, thanks again, I can't wait to see what you come up with next...
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  • Profile picture of the author gromine
    I was just about to buy another WSO when I came across this thread. It was an eye opening read. I guess I should go back to the last WSO I purchased and implement the strategy before I even think about buying another. The post above this one confirms what should have been obvious to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author raydp
    Great post Andy!

    I am stunned at the stuff that gets posted and the vast earning claims we're expected to believe. I queried a WSO poster about why, if he'd made way over a million in six months, why was he bothering with a WSO. I was told it was a silly question!

    I also notice the accumulated monthly income claimed by some WSO "predators" would enable them to take early retirement and still pay off the national debt of a small country!

    In spite of running these hugely profitable businesses, they still find time to pump out WSOs galore.

    Thank you again Andy, that was a breath of fresh air.

    Ray
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  • Profile picture of the author WarriorMaster
    Hey Andy,

    Love your post. Bean there and done that! It can be really hard to forget about the idea that there is a magic pill somewhere, so you keep buying things just to realize that you will never find it.

    I hope that many people will read your post and learn from it.

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author $JJPROFITS$
    Great post! Very well put. We all need to stay focused and keep are eyes on the prize. Letting ourselves wonder or drift off will only slow the process. Continue learning and enjoy!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

    Hey Andy,

    Since you started this thread, I was very curious so I bought your product.

    Since this thread is about "feeding bs", I was just wondering how on earth are your bonuses worth $394?

    I don't understand you because there is no way that bonuses can be worth $394. Are you not doing the same that this thread is against?
    While I know Andy can fight his own battles, you say that there is no way
    his bonuses are worth $394.

    You base this on what?

    If I offered a bonus to somebody who purchased one of my products
    that included, in the bonus, 7 days of my coaching...what would that
    be worth?

    If I said $700 would you say no way?

    Do you even have a clue what 7 days of my time is worth?

    So how can you say Andy's bonuses are not worth $394.

    I challenge you directly to tell me what you base that statement on.

    I can almost guarantee that you can come up with absolutely no good
    or logical reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

      I base my statement on the fact that his product is sold for $27, and his bonuses consisting of the ebook in video format is valued at more than 10 times the price. How does that make any sense?

      This was not an attack on Andy or anything, just a question. So everyone please calm down really
      Dude,

      You just accused me of BSing people and selling stuff with exaggerated claims without even PMing me that you felt like that or giving me any way to address is before posting criticism in this thread.

      I don't do IM for the money and have no wish to take your money if you don't think you're getting the value promised, so my reaction is just based on this.

      When I'm giving away 10 videos as a bonus to an ebook and I regularly sell videos for $37 each - I just do the math, but you got them free so publicly questioning the value doesn't make sense unless you wanted to cause offense,
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

        I did not accuse you I asked you if your are BS'ing people. Big difference.

        A question is not a statement, it is a question.

        Either this was one big miscommunication or something else is going on here
        Many people will take a statement and find away around making it by
        turning it into a question. Your apparent intent, whether you meant it that
        way or not, was to accuse Andy of doing the exact same thing.

        Go and read your post again and you will see how people can get that
        impression.
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        • Profile picture of the author MJ Schaefer
          A few thoughts...

          1. I don't think Franco's initial post was out of line. It came across to me as just a musing about where one can/should draw the line. Some guidance from Andy would be much appreciated on that subject.

          2. Steven: your intentions are good and come from the right place (defending a friend and a man you respect), but I think your defence was a little overzealous, fanning the flames a little. I didn't see Franco "literally accuse" Andy of anything.

          3. This is a phenomenal thread and should not fly off on a tangent like this. Huge respect to Andy for fantastic posts, to others for adding their own experiences and interpretations, and I hope this thread can continue in its previous spirit!
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by MJ Schaefer View Post

            A few thoughts...

            1. I don't think Franco's initial post was out of line. It came across to me as just a musing about where one can/should draw the line. Some guidance from Andy would be much appreciated on that subject.

            2. Steven: your intentions are good and come from the right place (defending a friend and a man you respect), but I think your defence was a little overzealous, fanning the flames a little. I didn't see Franco "literally accuse" Andy of anything.

            3. This is a phenomenal thread and should not fly off on a tangent like this. Huge respect to Andy for fantastic posts, to others for adding their own experiences and interpretations, and I hope this thread can continue in its previous spirit!

            Read Alex's post above. He took it that way, as Andy did, as I did, and I
            am sure a lot of others did.
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            • Profile picture of the author MJ Schaefer
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Read Alex's post above. He took it that way, as Andy did, as I did, and I am sure a lot of others did.
              I read that post. I also read Cringwall's post, and backed it up with my own. People have different interpretations, and I am not saying yours is any less correct than mine (or vice versa).

              I am not interested in point-scoring. As I said, it is a phenomenal thread and I would just like to see it get back on track rather than get mired in needless hostility.

              EDIT: just to add, for my part, I will no longer comment on the 'fracas' above, in order to stop the thread digressing.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Read Alex's post above. He took it that way, as Andy did, as I did, and I
              am sure a lot of others did.
              Yep, I took it that way too.
              Signature

              Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author cringwall
      Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

      I base my statement on the fact that his product is sold for $27, and his bonuses consisting of the ebook in video format is valued at more than 10 times the price. How does that make any sense?
      I believe this was a fair question, in light of the previous posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anup Mahajan
    Excellent post Andy... It should definitely help newbies judge the risk versus rewards in IM..

    With so much information overload and hundreds of ebooks, methods trying to pull us in different directions, I think it is important that we define what we want to achieve and set an action plan to achieve that goal. Merely jumping from one ebook to another is not going to make anyone rich and the sooner the newbies realize this, the better it would be for them...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

    Hey Andy,

    Since you started this thread, I was very curious so I bought your product.

    Since this thread is about "feeding bs", I was just wondering how on earth are your bonuses worth $394?

    I don't understand you because there is no way that bonuses can be worth $394. Are you not doing the same that this thread is against?
    Sorry you bought something and didn't see the value - I've issued you a refund and taken away my sig file so that no-one else confuses this thread with stuff being sold.

    I have no interest in taking money from people who don't value what's being offered.

    As for perceived value - it's in the eye of the beholder.

    If I told you that I've paid as much as $1000 for graphics for an information product I sell for $27 maybe that would seem like craziness - but if I pay for someones time I respect the value they put on it and I respect my time in the same way.

    When you consider how much it can cost just to get the sales copy for something done - then how much to get videos created, or graphics done - or even just for the resale rights for something someone else got created - value really is in the eye of the beholder.

    I've had people tell me that something I sold them for $17 made them $50k - because they applied something I shared in their business.

    I very rarely tend to put values to anything so I'll revise that sales page and remove the comments that gave you a problem - I would have thought that you'd have just PM'd me with your criticism rather than come and drag down a good thread with them, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Sorry you bought something and didn't see the value - I've issued you a refund and taken away my sig file so that no-one else confuses this thread with stuff being sold.

      I have no interest in taking money from people who don't value what's being offered.

      As for perceived value - it's in the eye of the beholder.

      If I told you that I've paid as much as $1000 for graphics for an information product I sell for $27 maybe that would seem like craziness - but if I pay for someones time I respect the value they put on it and I respect my time in the same way.

      When you consider how much it can cost just to get the sales copy for something done - then how much to get videos created, or graphics done - or even just for the resale rights for something someone else got created - value really is in the eye of the beholder.

      I've had people tell me that something I sold them for $17 made them $50k - because they applied something I shared in their business.

      I very rarely tend to put values to anything so I'll revise that sales page and remove the comments that gave you a problem - I would have thought that you'd have just PM'd me with your criticism rather than come and drag down a good thread with them, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

      Andy

      Andy, you're certainly free to do whatever you like. It's your business.
      But I wouldn't let people like that dictate to me how I run mine. You're
      always going to get these types that see value in nothing.

      It goes with the territory.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

        I did not dictate anybody on how to run their business. You people are being WAY too emotional on this
        Excuse me mister, but you literally accused Andy of selling BS.

        Maybe you need to read your own post again because you apparently
        don't remember what you typed.
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        • Profile picture of the author KenJ
          Hi Andy

          Been away for the weekend and come back to get an hours "fix" of posts here. And here is your perfect "gem" of a thread

          This is what I do - the hard work - I do this because, like you, I have discovered that hard work brings in the money.

          BTW - please put your back sig up. No more to say on that

          kenj
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        • Profile picture of the author EndGame
          To be honest Franco, if you read your whole comment, it did not just come across as an innocent question, it came across as you were implying Andy was being a hypocrite. If you had genuinely wanted to ask that question, as Andy has mentioned, I don't know why you didn't do it in a PM.

          Perhaps you meant it innocently enough, but I think you could have worded it better.

          Aside from this little bump in the road, this has been a good thread and definitely one that a lot of newcomers should read when getting into this niche.



          Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

          "Are you not doing the same that this thread is against?"

          I just quoted myself. QUESTION, definitely not LITERALLY accused Andy.

          Like I said, I think this was one big misunderstanding
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

          "Are you not doing the same that this thread is against?"

          I just quoted myself. QUESTION, definitely not LITERALLY accused Andy.

          Like I said, I think this was one big misunderstanding
          Hey Franco - I can see your logic, but let me ask you this.

          If I said - "so are you enjoying molesting children?" - you would be ok and not offended, because "it's just a question - not an accusation"?

          Hey look - I'm not into holding grudges, I accept that you didn't mean it the way it came across.

          Also - I've taken that product sales page down and I don't want to take your money - have the ebook on me, seriously.
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    • Profile picture of the author greff
      Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

      Hey Andy,

      The purpose of that comment was really not to offend you or your product in any way, as the sales page has nothing to do with the product, only to do with WHY people BUY your product.

      I just asked an honest question, because just about every sales page out there gives an enormous value to bonuses compared to the price of their own product.

      I really don't understand why you took this so bad as it was just a question, and relevant to the topic.
      Legally, advertisers are allowed to express great love for their products. This is known as "puffery". I know what you mean about the valuation of bonus products, but I don't think any laws were broken. Looks like this is a sensitive subject for Andy and maybe most IM people. None of us feel good about customer complaints.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Great post...I wish that the number of successful Internet Marketers was higher. Learning IM at an expert level takes time. People go to college for 4 to 6 years to get an education that will earn them $80,000 per year.
    You then have people who jump into Internet Marketing they expect to make $80,000 in 3 months. If you poll this Forum and talk to all the Top Internet Marketers, it takes them to their 2nd year on average before they start making big income. My first year, I was learning and earning but it all came together in 2009 once I educated myself.
    Good luck to the newbies and hang in there, you are light years ahead of all the people who are going to be coming into this industry in the next 10 years.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      Great post...I wish that the number of successful Internet Marketers was higher. Learning IM at an expert level takes time. People go to college for 4 to 6 years to get an education that will earn them $80,000 per year.
      You then have people who jump into Internet Marketing they expect to make $80,000 in 3 months. If you poll this Forum and talk to all the Top Internet Marketers, it takes them to their 2nd year on average before they start making big income. My first year, I was learning and earning but it all came together in 2009 once I educated myself.
      Good luck to the newbies and hang in there, you are light years ahead of all the people who are going to be coming into this industry in the next 10 years.
      Definitely.

      It took me 3 months to write my first ebook and that was when they weren't all over the place like they are now.

      It seems that we have a culture of people wanting everything and wanting it now.

      In the UK peoples expectations about what they deserve or expect has changed massively.

      When my parents were younger they went without many things because they just couldn't afford them - these days there are teenagers taking out credit they can't afford just so that they have a full equipped house when they get their first place.

      It's got to the point where people consider not having cable/sky and a mobile phone as being below the poverty line.

      It's not surprising that this spills over on to the Internet and making money.

      Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        It seems that we have a culture of people wanting everything and wanting it now.
        I keep thinking back to the guy I saw in the convenience store awhile back. He picked up a burrito from the cooler, stuck it in the microwave, and then danced back and forth telling it to "come on, come on..." Seems 90 seconds was way too long to wait for hot food. :rolleyes:

        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        In the UK peoples expectations about what they deserve or expect has changed massively.

        When my parents were younger they went without many things because they just couldn't afford them - these days there are teenagers taking out credit they can't afford just so that they have a full equipped house when they get their first place.

        It's got to the point where people consider not having cable/sky and a mobile phone as being below the poverty line.

        It's not surprising that this spills over on to the Internet and making money.

        Andy
        There's a TV show in the States that often features engaged or newly married couples looking for their first house. These kids (relative to me, anyway) will walk into a kitchen and talk about how the whole thing needs to be gutted because it doesn't have granite counter tops and top of the line appliances in the right finish. They are perfectly willing to spread the payments on those upgrades over 30-40 years.

        The idea of buying something serviceable and affordable, and moving up as circumstances change is completely lost.

        Even 25 years ago, when I was selling light fixtures, we had a lot of couples who figured out that absolute most they could spend on a house, based on two incomes and nothing going wrong. All it took to make the walls come tumbling down was an unplanned pregnancy, a layoff, or a car accident...
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Andy, in the past I had thought about posting something like you did. Boy--am I glad I didn't. I never could have said it as well as you did! As I read it I kept on saying yes, yes, yes, right on, great point, exactly right, etc.

    Your post is much like hitting a golf ball. It may look like an easy thing to do from afar, but when you pick up a club and look the ball face to face--what looks easy is darn difficult to execute the ways the pros do. You executed your post perfectly and it should be required reading for all. Thank you!
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    • Profile picture of the author xops
      I belong to a few other forums and I've mentioned this post in all of them as required reading. Incredible post and follow-ups. Thanks for restoring my faith and hope.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sleeq
    Thank you,

    as a newbie, you've helped me a lot!
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  • Great points!

    Many get caught up in buying the latest and greatest, but don't even implement what they have just learned, instead.....just bounce from idea/product to newest idea/product.

    It takes WORK and lots of it.

    And a plan that you are constantly willing and committed to apply your time and resources to.
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  • Profile picture of the author ukbuddy2
    great post Andy

    I just finished na email to somebody who bought a website from me and they think all they eed to do is upload it to clckbank and $$$ will our in their account like an ATM!!!

    read that so many times.

    People it takes time and you must do something each day
    a coach is good but it is still down to you
    and getting the right info rather than sales hype.

    one suggestion do not buy into the latest -you just need this one product and all your probs will be solved-
    why

    because have a qick look around the forum or any im forum and you will see that is what newbs are looking for. so they just produce a sales page that 'seems' to answer the problem.


    anyway any newb reading this what one thing have you done today to add traffic or a site
    d
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Tatts
    I wish I had seen this post over a year ago,the advice and pointers are second to none,I am still learning and haven't made a penny, mainly due to believing in the hype driven by the WSO's I have bought and read, expecting big paydays in a short space of time, only to find I am just lining someone elses pocket.I am still in full-time employ and a lot of time cannot commit 8 hours a day to building a business so in my niave way have believed some of the sales pitches included in the WSO's I have purchased only to fail.I am now a little wiser and once I can focus again will be directing all my efforts into building a business using help gained from reading this forum,I think the best thing for me is to start from scratch and not give the so called gurus my credit card number
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    • Profile picture of the author 808glass
      Originally Posted by Warrior Tatts View Post

      I wish I had seen this post over a year ago,the advice and pointers are second to none,I am still learning and haven't made a penny, mainly due to believing in the hype driven by the WSO's I have bought and read, expecting big paydays in a short space of time, only to find I am just lining someone elses pocket.I am still in full-time employ and a lot of time cannot commit 8 hours a day to building a business so in my niave way have believed some of the sales pitches included in the WSO's I have purchased only to fail.I am now a little wiser and once I can focus again will be directing all my efforts into building a business using help gained from reading this forum,I think the best thing for me is to start from scratch and not give the so called gurus my credit card number
      1 year and no cash? You're reading too much and buying too many WSO's. It's not that hard, though as the OP said it does take a lot of work. The learning curve will never be breached if you don't just go do something.
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  • Profile picture of the author rm.spain
    Excellent post Andy! Funny how this doesn't happen only in the IM scene but also appears in other sectors like Forex, etc... You could change some of the terms around but the "copy" seems to be exact!!

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author DanPE
    Another thing is how so many people think that IM is just selling "self-help" stuff online. I mean it's a lot more than that, it's not just about selling code, or ebooks or advice or information or anything. If you're selling mugs or pens or computers or whatever, you're still in need of some serious IM. It's funny though how almost the entire forum is about selling books or info or advice. Why doesn't anyone sell anything other than that?
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  • Profile picture of the author neodarth
    Excellent post! I've read it the entire post, some pretty interesting things here. I'm considered myself as a newbie in progress. From all I made in this six months adventure in the IM world, I'm still not get even with all that I spend in IM products. I have to admite that I'm a compulsive buyer. Right now I'm like those guys that knows everything about baseball, all the stats and games, and dates and all the players and their teams... but I've never played baseball... (so sad...)
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  • Profile picture of the author kcclark
    this has certainly been my experience, it's refreshing to hear someone tell the truth
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  • Profile picture of the author kcclark
    great advice, this certainly will shed some light on what you can expect, this is what makes this forum so valuable and important
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron.Scott
    Great post Andy. I would like to also add that it is important to make obtainable goals.

    What I mean by that is goals that are within your control. You cannot make it a goal to have your website to number 1 on Google in 8 hours because while it is possible it is completely out of your control.

    A better goal would be that you are going to spend 2 hours per day on back linking for 2 weeks, then analyze where you are at in rankings and the next linking steps you should take.

    To many people set goals for them selves that are one completely unobtainable and two are out of there control. So in short they are setting them selves up for failure which will be a huge blow to your ego.

    Set small obtainable goals and watch your marketing business take off!
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    • Profile picture of the author xops
      Originally Posted by Aaron.Scott View Post

      Great post Andy. I would like to also add that it is important to make obtainable goals.

      What I mean by that is goals that are within your control. You cannot make it a goal to have your website to number 1 on Google in 8 hours because while it is possible it is completely out of your control.

      A better goal would be that you are going to spend 2 hours per day on back linking for 2 weeks, then analyze where you are at in rankings and the next linking steps you should take.

      To many people set goals for them selves that are one completely unobtainable and two are out of there control. So in short they are setting them selves up for failure which will be a huge blow to your ego.

      Set small obtainable goals and watch your marketing business take off!
      Excellent suggestion! There are so many ways to go about IM that one can get lost so easily in pursuing too many lofty goals. Any mentor will tell you that large goals should be broken down into smaller steps.

      So for instance, think about what you would like to accomplish in the next year, then what to do in the next thirty days, then this coming week. As Aaron says, make a daily plan and work it for a week or a month.

      At the end of each period, reevaluate your progress and make adjustments. Things will become clearer as you go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charann Miller
    I loved your post that I had to print it, this is the true nuts and bolts of success in IM or anything in life for that matter because everything requires work whether it's losing weight or acquiring a new skill.

    I work harder now than I ever did in a 9 to 5 but I love it because I see the fruits of it.

    If you truly want to be successful you have to be prepared to do what 99% of the crowd won't which is probably why 99% of the crowd never really experience the level of success they desire and just settle for what they get given.

    Thanks for the post, you really hit the nail on the head.
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  • Profile picture of the author niteout
    Great post! Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Nice post Andy. Although I don't think you are the first person to ever tell me that I have to work hard to achieve my goals in life. LOL!
      Nothing comes easy in life in any discipline. You have to work at it. Unless you're gifted that is.:p
      As for IM, I read a lot of posts on Warrior and notice that people who have "made it" are working much harder to maintain it. Heck they're working harder in IM than they would be working 9 to 5.
      It's good motivation for me though. Also nice to have a good amount of IMers out there who know what they're doing and able to lend a hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Just wanted to back up this post. I read a few of the comments and you can tell, the successful people are generally the same.

    I am willing to bet that a lot of the people who are not working much now still were at the beginning.

    This is exactly how I started making a profit, with hard work.
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  • Profile picture of the author YseUp
    As a relative newb this is how some successful IM'ers come across. Imagine this was a forum for Guitar players. And a newbie asks, how can I play like Jimi Hendrix / Slash / Van Halen / Eric Clapton... whatever.

    These are the types of responses you get on this forum.

    1. Hey, I practices X/Y/Z scales, I learned some chords and started playing some songs. I practice about 2 hours a day. Ik took me about 2 years to get fairly good. Can't make any promises but that worked for me.

    2. Dude just practice, stop messing around! All the information is here. God newbs are so lazy do you think it's just going to be handed to you on a plate. Just practice! Practise! Practise! Practise! Practise! Practise! (Never actually stated WHAT or HOW to practice)

    3. Nevermind practising... just buy this $7 E-book and you'll be shredding in 24 hrs.

    On this forum (from a newbs perspective) there is far too much of 2 and 3... and it's hard to know what is 1. Experienced people of course are much better at spotting 1 and can't understand how newbies don't see all the 1's posted all over the forum.

    Edit: People might think its funny that I describe myself as new since I've been here for a year. Just to let you guys know I've made approx $500 online so far.

    Also that all the successful internet marketers I know in real life often give advice that DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS 99% of what type of advise is given here. How's that for confusing!? LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      That's interesting - I teach music and non of those models are what I advise

      I treat people as individuals and use my understanding of them and their goals to develop a strategy that suits them.

      Exactly the same as I do for businesses and clients in IM or anything else.

      As for advice people give here - I agree, every successful person I know that gives advice says things which are not like 99% of what you read here - but then again, 99% of people here are probably not that successful, so I guess that makes sense.

      It doesn't really make sense to base your business plans on what random strangers on a forum say anyway does it.

      Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author YseUp
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


        It doesn't really make sense to base your business plans on what random strangers on a forum say anyway does it.

        Andy
        Yup, its my own fault. This is my first time being involved in a forum about business / making money so I should have figured that a primary purpose for many people is to make money out of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Trotts
    The "information overload" syndrome is what I suffered from for almost 10 years! I know.. pathetic.. I was in a state of constant "learning" and never "doing".

    **You must take action to start getting results

    And I always say the easiest way is to start by building your list. One page is all you need to start making money online.

    Find what your passionate about, write a report, get an autoresponder, and create ONE PAGE to get people to sign up for the report you wrote.

    That is how to start. do that and you'll be WAY ahead of the pack!

    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Tom Trotts View Post

      The "information overload" syndrome is what I suffered from for almost 10 years! I know.. pathetic.. I was in a state of constant "learning" and never "doing".

      **You must take action to start getting results

      And I always say the easiest way is to start by building your list. One page is all you need to start making money online.

      Find what your passionate about, write a report, get an autoresponder, and create ONE PAGE to get people to sign up for the report you wrote.

      That is how to start. do that and you'll be WAY ahead of the pack!

      Tom
      I feel that. There are so many stories people have for justifying continuing behaviour that isn't getting them anywhere.

      I've heard things like "well as long as you keep learning, you're still moving forward" - when their goal is to make money and they're not making any.

      Or "as long as you find one piece of useful advice - the product was worth the money" etc...

      All the advice in the world is less useful than one small action. Knowledge is useless without application.

      You're right that just starting with a simple model that includes something you're passionate about - is a great way for most people to get started, and at least if they're building a list of people with similar interests, they have good reason to think they can at least make one sale of something relevant.

      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author JanedC
    Has anyone traded live on the stock exchange before. If so, you will know the feeling that rises up in you when you have a great trade, and the feeling of dread or panic when you in a really crappy trade.. the adrenalin on both trades is hectic but the the success of the trade is being disciplined about when to end the trade. Well, I'm new to internet marketing and I'm afraid I've chased the sizzle and felt the same disappointment of a losing trade - stupidity for not doing what I know I should have - things like knowing what you are getting into. I have recently tasted the pure pleasure of receiving my first payment but I have a long way to go before covering the costs of my stupidity and my chasing after the wind! The great news is whether a newbie or not, we all learn from our mistakes. It would be fantastic if we would not waste time and just learn from others but it seems the quickest way to change you behaviour is to feel the pain. I have learned to focus on the businesses I have and to build up my list for them rather than jumping on every bandwagon that passes. The sizzle is sometimes really sweet, especially when money is tight but lessons learned tell me that if I keep at that, I will be part of the 90% who don't succeed. I refuse to be that, so I'm taking the advice here and hopefully I'll post some sweet results soon
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by JanedC View Post

      Has anyone traded live on the stock exchange before. If so, you will know the feeling that rises up in you when you have a great trade, and the feeling of dread or panic when you in a really crappy trade.. the adrenalin on both trades is hectic but the the success of the trade is being disciplined about when to end the trade. Well, I'm new to internet marketing and I'm afraid I've chased the sizzle and felt the same disappointment of a losing trade - stupidity for not doing what I know I should have - things like knowing what you are getting into. )

      There's a HUGE difference here though.

      In business and marketing you can make an excellent income providing genuine service to others (in most speculative trading...stock markets forex etc someone has to lose for you to win).

      If you're focusing on trying to find a way to genuinely be of service to others online then you'll find it quite easy to make a good income.

      As long as you take action consistently on providing the benefits to others that you can deliver.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh

      P.S. Most internet marketing has little to no risk too. People usually fail simply because they don't identify how to help others or they don't take action.
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      • Profile picture of the author DanPE
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        (in most speculative trading...stock markets forex etc someone has to lose for you to win).
        Not necessarily true, at least in the stock market. The someone you bought from may have made his share. Say the price is $5 (for instance.) He bought at $5 and sold to you at $6, so he made $1. You buy at $6 and sell to someone at $7, so you made money. In this case no one loses. No one takes "the other end" unless you're short-selling.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    You know, Im tired of all the BS out there.

    I wish someone here would post a video giving EVIDENCE of making money from the system NOT by selling it.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      The fact is, some people (a lot of people) are just not cut out for running their own business and would be better off getting a job where they will be told what to do and get paid for doing it.

      It is too easy for people to set up an internet marketing business.

      If they had to invest in a bricks and mortar business where they had to invest their own money, take out a loan (with the risk of losing their house) and write out a detailed business plan to prove to the bank manager that they were worthy of loaning to and investing in, most of them would not get past first base.


      They would be expected to have done all their training and homework BEFORE deciding that they were going to get involved with the business.

      I see so many warriors doing things the wrong way round....and then they wonder why they fail.

      Gary
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      You know, Im tired of all the BS out there.

      I wish someone here would post a video giving EVIDENCE of making money from the system NOT by selling it.
      I would be more than happy to do it, but the post would only end up
      getting deleted as being self promotional. So why bother going through all
      that trouble for nothing?

      See my point?
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I would be more than happy to do it, but the post would only end up
        getting deleted as being self promotional. So why bother going through all
        that trouble for nothing?

        See my point?
        For us that KNOW, we'd appreciate it Steve - regardles of the tossers. But I understand your point. Maybe on your on blog?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      You know, Im tired of all the BS out there.

      I wish someone here would post a video giving EVIDENCE of making money from the system NOT by selling it.
      I've actually done this in the past - but people just treat it the same as all the other 'claims' that are made and immediately start listing reasons why they can't do it or "it's ok for you" etc..

      I've even had people tell me they can't give anything to charity and that "it's ok for me" when I've had no money and still given what I don't have. They seem to think that anyone who is doing what they would like to do must have some special situation that makes it easy for them. This is usually not the case and is just an internal mechanism for justifying why you're not doing the things you know you should if you really were the person you think you are.


      There are so many made up claims that people just can't distinguish between truth and hype anymore, and since I have no real need to spend time convincing them (apart from times like this thread where I just feel the need for a reality check) I stopped trying to convince people ages ago - they usually want to hear the advice in the right place, from the right person at the right time, or after enough pain - so it's not easy to hit that spot for many people let alone a lot of them.

      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author avandrunen
    I want to thank you for this harsh dose of much needed reality.

    I know there are no magic formulas but it is so easy to fall for the next greatest wso promising that they can teach you to be profitable with little work...I have no problems purchasing a wso I just wish that it would deliver on the promise...so far as providing a step by step outline.

    I love the folks that have helped out just because they genuinely want to.

    One warrior here even offered up a free coaching program to join...unfortunately the time of the session did not mesh with my work schedule.

    These are the people we should be looking to for some form of help.

    Andy here who has no reason to post this but to try and help us new im'ers not get trapped in the bs wso's out there and remind us that this is a real business and requires real work.

    Thanks Andy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Um...I went to a marketing forum and a philosophy class broke out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Um...I went to a marketing forum and a philosophy class broke out.
      Unfortunately - it's just a reprinted article that's been blasted around the internet and someone took the authors resource off and just posted it here, maybe the thread is now popular enough that people want to abuse it...
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    look at the WSO section.

    Al lthe most popular ones are the scammiets ones,

    Make $1,000+ per day"
    How to make $2,000 in the next 5 mons with CPA
    Make $30,000 per month with youtube.."

    etc... when you buy them it's plain old I.M'n g 1010. nothing new.

    They say "I give people what they want and that the name of the game"
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  • Profile picture of the author rocson
    Great post!

    Really makes you sit back and think of all the times you've been bent over with sizzle!
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  • Profile picture of the author feedtherightwolf
    This thread especially first post was one of the best things I've read, not just online but ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author robvegas626
    I also recommend taking actions every day to increase your presence online, whether it's submitting an article, uploading a video to Youtube, setting up a new site, etc. Be PRODUCTIVE every day. Some people get "lost" in constantly researching and trying to learn the latest IM products (many of which don't work as advertised).
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    • Profile picture of the author Rockmanfl
      Wow that was a great post, and it's something that I've been learning as well. I was one of those people who was always looking for the easier way, and you made a lot of really good points. The one thing that has paid off for me so far (and I'm still learning) - is that you have to be persistant and consistant, even if you just do a little each day it's better then doing nothing. I think it's great to have all these available resources, but you have to put them into action. You can just keep reading and learning (and I've learned so much, just by reading ebooks and these forums) - but you have to actually act on them, even if they don't work for you, at least you are doing something.
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  • Profile picture of the author VyctorB_10
    Fantastic Post Avan! Soaked it up like a sponge! Thanks for having us newb's backs!




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    • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
      I don't post. But I have to say "spot on". Some truth that truly needed to be said. Someone once said, when congratulated on his "overnight success" that, "Yes, it only took me 20 years." Good information, coupled with constant, hard work, and an "eye on the prize" can achieve wonder.s

      Reminds me of a quote by Lewis Carroll ("Alice in Wonderland")
      which I think is a good guideline for newbies who don't know where to turn: " Begin at the beginning,", the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop"
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  • Profile picture of the author ACGroup1
    This is the slap in the face that so many people need when beginning their IM journey. I don't know how many times I've gone to a Meet up group meeting and had the newbie of the group share their frustration because the latest dozen ebooks, courses, videos didn't make them a millionaire over night. Great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author RockmanX3
    Let the truth be told.

    I admit I was scammed like most people into thinking I could earn thousands and quit my job. I'm barely making enough to pay for my gas each week, but it does work if you really put in the actual work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vishal Mahadik
    Thanks Andy for this great inspirational post. I must say, it is not only for newbies. You must remove Newbies from the Title. Every IMer needs this to take by heart. Thanks a lot again.
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  • Profile picture of the author kgloh23
    Totally agree, the more effort you put, the more you get. It not only in internet marketing but also offline business. That is the theory of give and take. There are no easy money in legal way but money are easily to steal by people.
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  • Profile picture of the author bkilela
    Thanks for saying it as it is. This is surely a sobering post.
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  • Profile picture of the author mozartromeo
    Thanks. I am becoming a member after reading your post. It has give me a great deal of new motivation and faith. I feel that I will be learnig a lot.
    I am a four year old newbie., and I love the term. Do not removed it from the title , people need it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      This post is a must read for any IM newbie.

      I would just add that, appart from a lot of intelligent and consistent work,
      in order to succeed you need to invest money too. There are maybe a few
      exceptionally tallented or lucky people who managed to build a solid business
      using only free tools, but more often than not, you need to buy top quality tools
      and services that cost good ammount of money in order to get serious results.

      So take everythnig that Andy wrote in his post for absolute thuth and
      callibrate your brains according to his guidelines, but also be sure to
      carefully investigate what tools and services are producing good
      results and invest in them. Remember, you are building a business, and
      business demands clever and powerful investments in competitive
      tools and services.


      .
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Wish I had read this post when I was a newbie...

    I discovered this forum only after two years of many tragic experiences online.

    My problem is somehow different from most people's problem in this forum. I'm selling original ebooks written after long research, discoveries, etc, and I saw that I have to be a marketer online, wanting it or not. I'm a psychotherapist. However, there is no way you can have a business online without being a marketer yourself...

    I have a business offline for many years, which was given to me as a gift from my relatives. It works by itself in fact, with regular customers. I'm always involved with marketing without being completely devoted to it.

    Now I feel I know a lot about IM, but it's hard to make good money alone, and it's even harder to make JVs with people you don't know, promoting products you don't know... without knowing if these products will be online tomorrow or if their links will be dead because they will run out of business... There are many dangers online.

    Wish I had a group of sellers who would promote my ebooks for me! But nothing is simple... In order to have many affiliates promoting your products, you have to work...

    There is always a lot of work to be done everywhere. This is the bitter truth online and offline too. Nothing happens without many efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author dfloyd
    Great post, Andy. I've tried all kinds of stuff over the last 15 years and have never found the 'magic bullet'. There is none. There is no substitute for hard work and perseverence.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kappadona
    This is a great thread. Many newbies are looking to make quick money and there is the fallacy of the "great idea". Don't get me wrong I think that great ideas make you more money but people forget that hours of work go into executing a great "idea" and making millions and billions from it.
    Just like Bill Gates worked 16 hour days when building Microsoft (and that was with a great team of intelligent guys behind him) everyone who enters the IM game should be made aware of the hard work that is in front of them.
    Once again great post. This is why the Warrior Forum is the best. Real information is here in abundance
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  • Profile picture of the author psychobabble
    Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.
    Most misunderstood concept in all of internet marketing. You don't work an hour a day and make 5-10k a month...You work crazy hard for long hours especially when youre new and don't know how to work smart yet.

    Excellent post, a lot of new people really need to see this kind of thing
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  • Profile picture of the author mattalways
    Just wanted to say that I never once bought an ebook or any of that junk. The information is on this forum, google, etc...Why are you people buying this crap? lol

    Not really sure why that many people thanked him on this post when more than half of you probably buy this crap daily and will continue to!

    I also think the "easy" part of IM for a lot of people, is the part where you don't have to go to work and you can do it whenever you want. I think people hear how easy it is from people that view it like this, and it brings in all of the lazy people. The thing is though, I work all day and night and I'm not rich yet. Even though I consider it easy, I don't know many people that can focus like I do when I get down to business. I can do months straight where it is all I think about/do. It also took me years of working like this to learn how to do what I do, and you're never going to learn everything from some ebook/info product....And even if you did, you'd probably be too lazy to put it into action!
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  • Profile picture of the author matty-81
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author behnk01
      4 biggies.

      1. Research your target audience for 3-5 hours first. (compete.com, alexa.com)

      2. Ask aff manager for a top offer, w/ low payout (under $3), because this is less money to test and will save you test time and money, equal to the percent of pay bump you get.

      3. Direct link on yahoo or msn 4-8pm. Do not start on adwords as that's a whole other ballpark of factors you need to deal with.

      4. Use a tracking program such as 202. This will track all your keywords, ads, referring sites, landing pages and times of clicks.

      I guarantee those 4 quick steps will save you all 50% of the learning time it would otherwise take to break even with PPC. If you want more, contact me.
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      • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
        It's a simple case of being aware of whom it is you're going to follow.

        Selling the "sizzle" is still a very viable marketing device. Just as car manufacturers sell the sexy. But...

        Disreputable marketers are even stealing the sizzle.

        I think there's nothing wrong with putting your best foot forward. That's what advertising is all about.

        But the OP is right that you have to beware of the ripoffs.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimG
      Originally Posted by matty-81 View Post

      Now, this another great method, but most marketers can't do it (including myself).

      Create a fantastic product and put in on WF as a WSO, then raise the price and put it on Clickbank and get loads of affiliate promoting for you.

      You'll have to have start up money, because if you want to be successful on Clickbank, you'll need professional copy and a great looking sales page, and this will cost you at least $1000 (if you want it done right).

      If you just want to promote Clickbank products, you can make money. Again, you need a list. It took me almost a year to get my first 1000 subscribers, but I used all free methods (article marketing, Squidoo, classified ads, forums, blog comments, YouTube, etc). And I still have days when I make 0 sales and get 0 new subscribers!
      Creating the great product and selling it as a WSO is the first part of that equation and many folks are able to do that. If you visit the WSO section you will find (once you weed out the garbage) lots of great products so I think many have step 1 down pat.

      Step 2 of then selling it on Clickbank is where the major chokepoint takes place because as sad as it sounds unless you have a sales page that features plenty of sizzle you won't make very many sales. Naturally, your product must back that sizzle up with real steak (filet mignon anyone ).

      What i'd love to see (we never do) is refund amount for the products on clickbank that sell a ton but offer little in value and then the buyers promptly ask for a refund - no one ever shows those screenshots - :rolleyes:.

      The reality is, selling sizzle is easy but selling the steak (real value) is infinitely harder to do.

      Oh, before I forget - I think we have all suffered through those days of 0 sales and 0 new subscribers - those days kinda stink

      Respectfully,
      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    Finally the truth. Thanks Andy. This post should take the place of all those tiny font disclaimers you can hardly read on ebooks, courses, programs etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    Does anybody know what post has the record for "thanks"? The first post here has 152 which has to rank right up there at at the top!
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.

    Yes the sooner you commit to actually doing what it takes to make some money instead of playing around with the latest "idea of the week" the sooner you can be making a serious income.

    Most people who've been on this forum for a month have more than enough information to make a full time income or better.

    The difference between those who do and those who just keep stumbling from one great new idea to the next is that the successful people take action and keep taking it adjusting what they do based on the results they get.

    And they stick with one proven strategy or method until they get real results.

    If you just stick to doing ONE thing and learning to do it well when you're starting out and you consistently take action, day after day, week after week, making money is inevitable.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author IMStudentforlife
    The old school methods have worked for me mostly, I've tried other peoples new methods.. now I'm cleaning up the mess...

    But I've never fully relied on them. To me its not a matter of what some say as "click, click cash in.. "

    Selling the sizzle and not the steak is a old time saying. Its what I was taught in my Marketing classes. I didn't take it the way some are meaning thou, what I was taking from it is the overall experience your website gives the viewer.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


    Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.
    Well if you compare it with other stuff,
    it doesn't require lots of work.

    And you can also reduce your workload a lot if
    you pay for traffic(ex. PPC) & oursource
    tedious tasks.

    Cheers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by IM Headlines View Post

      Well if you compare it with other stuff,
      it doesn't require lots of work.

      And you can also reduce your workload a lot if
      you pay for traffic(ex. PPC) & oursource
      tedious tasks.

      Cheers.
      True - it's all relative.

      If you don't enjoy it - it's work.

      Also some people WANT to be busy on their business and others want it hands-free.

      I like to have busy periods where I work really hard to get a great results for someone and then take it easy for a while.

      It's a personal choice. Some IMers have zero interest in their business and just do it for the money - so for them making it hands-free is ideal.

      For me - I take my business personally and I like helping people, so I like the time I spend doing it.

      I still get a lot of free time but if you like the work - doing a lot of it isn't a problem.

      Work is only a problem if you don't enjoy it - and why would you build a business doing things you don't enjoy?

      I outsource a lot - but not the things I like doing that I can do particularly well. Otherwise anyone could outsource the same stuff and do my business - which wouldn't make me very special.


      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    Some time ago, I wrote a post in the forum here:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2169504

    Making big money requires hard work, lots of it.

    It does not happen in a day.
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    This is what I'm talking about Andy, thanks for taking time to write this great post and reminder to everyone. For me, I always believe on reaping hard first before you expect the results and thus, it's better to not spend a lot while you're still learning Internet Marketing but after you've chosen your expertise, your interest and also the problem people get into when it comes to your niche, it's not a problem for you to take the course that you need to reap your knowledge more and then take action to start generating income.

    Internet Marketing will show you a lot of these effective and compelling products but every product would have different features that will only "fit" to the right ones so buying them all at the same time is the worst decision you'll ever make. Bottomline is, try to take time finding for the information that fits you the best and then try to stick on it, model it and then utilize it to leverage your business. It's not easy at the start but when you already know how things go, it gets easier and easier.

    Perseverance plus taking action is the key!
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  • Profile picture of the author contactscape
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    Hi warriors,

    This post is for newbies to the forum and IM in general.

    You may have heard the term 'sell the sizzle not the steak'? (it means if you're selling something sell the exciting part rather than just give boring description of the product itself)

    Well - I'm just here to warn you that much of the sizzle you're being sold doesn't actually come with steak.

    Here's a reality check.

    Most people in IM are not making money. Probably 90% of those who are - are making less than they're spending on IM stuff.

    Of that remaining 10% - probably half of them are not making enough for it to be their only income.

    Making 'good' money online REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK.

    Now, I know you're being fed sizzle that says - here's how to make a few grand in a few days, and yes it is possible - I've done it and even shared how I did it, but......

    Even when someone says it and it's true - it's not the reality for most people that try to copy it.

    I'm not just saying this from personal experience - I get out and about a lot and meet people, other IMers who are working hard to make money - most of them are not really making any money.

    The real kicker to this is - that is regardless of what tools, courses and systems they've bought which promise to short-cut their success.

    These tools, systems, courses, ebooks, videos etc.... will not suddenly make you great money.

    The MAIN factor that will effect your success is - HOW MUCH WORK YOU DO.

    Now, obviously there's a certain amount of knowledge required and many people are buying information products and coaching etc to short cut their knowledge gathering - that's absolutely fine and a good idea.

    But I'm telling you - if you think that you're just waiting until you finish your first ebook - then you'll be rich, don't kid yourself. 70% of IMers have written at least one ebook and even if they sold some, it usually doesn't last and it's just a tiny part of making money.

    What you don't see is just how MUCH people making money really do.

    For instance - I have several hundred websites of my own and several hundreds blogs and social accounts etc...

    Why? because it means that I don't need to rely on anyone else for me to be able to get traffic, links and sales to my own products.

    The biggest problem most people have is being able to turn their traffic on when they need. If you have that targeted traffic tap - then you can always make money.

    The problem is - it takes time to build it.

    I know that people are always telling you to get this tool or that system - the thing is - did you notice how every one of them seems to be the 'only one you need' or 'the best tool of its kind' - and the underlyng assumption is that it's all you need.

    The Twitter tools are a classic example - as soon as a few marketers realised that Twitter is popular and people will buy stuff if you tell them they now need twitter and the latest Twitter abuse tools - they create whatever they think is what people want to see and sell the hell out of it.

    It probably won't surprise you to hear that most of the Twitter 'automatic adder' tools will get your account banned. Twitter hates people abusing their systems the same as Google does.

    These tools are not the answer to your problems.

    They're adding to your problems.

    With all that said - we're making the situation worse every time we buy into the latest hype or tool.

    The things you're doing to 'help' yourself are the very things that are sabotaging your success.

    Looking for shortcuts all the time is NOT the way to be successful - can you imagine an olympic athlete saying "I'm going to stay in bed today instead of my morning run - I have this drink that says it will give me energy when I need it", or for that matter a farmer who waits until 2 weeks before harvest and then tries to quickly grow his crops at the last minute because he couldn't be bothered to put the time in and plant them when they should have been.

    You need a plan - a plan that actually points you to a successful result. Not some generic thing that 'should get you 'some' results.

    If you went to your bank manager and said "I need $5k to start an online business" and he asked "so can you show me how and when you'll make that back" and your answer was "well, I'm going to spend $2k on this traffic course, then pay some people I don't know below minimum wage to write articles for me and then just watch the cash roll in" what his reaction would be?

    There are 2 pieces of advice I would like to humbly offer you today.

    1 - Don't underestimate the amount and consistency of work that is being done by people who seem to be 'easily and quickly' making great money.

    2 - Before you invest yourself fully into your online activities (this is something you need to do really) when you get to the point where you've read about or heard of an 'easy' way to make money - take a deep breath, sit down somewhere quiet and be really honest with yourself and ask this question - "Do I really KNOW what the plan for my online business is? (are you hoping to pay your mortgage, or support your family) and will the activities I'm planning to do be able to get me there? if I'm not sure - are they activities that I can measure and be able to tell whether I need to supplement/replace them at some point?"

    People will tell you all sorts of things, usually for the right reasons, often out of enthusiasm or excitement - but most of it will not be true for you.

    Don't base your business and your dreams on what people are telling you. Use your brain, assess things for yourself and make a plan that's right for YOU.

    Certainly model the success of others but don't expect copying people or buying the latest "how to make $5 in 5 days" WSO will answer your problems.

    Ask yourself the questions that challenge whether someone is trying to make you cut corners and not do your business in the way you know really needs to be done.

    Take your business seriously and don't kid yourself that hard work is involved. Almost ANY IM money making strategy will work if you just get focused and take consistent action in a direction that you understand and can see how and why it will work.

    Don't waste your money buying lots of tools - they're just there to help you be more effective once you already know what works for you.

    And don't be afraid for ask for help - working with others makes your IM journey MUCH more fun.

    Andy
    Terrific Appraisal of Reality there my friend, absolutely brilliant post!

    Kudos~
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  • Profile picture of the author Danielle Zack
    Awesome Post Andy!
    Which is obivously apparent by all of the feedback. I think that all IMs can relate, not just newbies. We all are there or have been there before. This is a great dose of reality. There are too many people out there full of 'sizzle' and unrealisticexpectations, information like this is crucial to anyone actually wanting to succeed.

    There are a lot of great info products out there, I have studied my fair share. There's nothing wrong with buying a lot of info products and taking a lot of courses. It's crucial to learn your craft. However, it's not really your craft if you are not acting on anything that you are learning. There can be no results without first taking action. Too many IMs waste time moving from course to course and never apply anything.

    Thanks for being blunt and honest Andy!

    Danielle
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  • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    For instance - I have several hundred websites of my own and several hundreds blogs and social accounts etc...
    These numbers are a great guide, Andy.

    Another warrior, Tony Shepherd, confesses that he has as many as 60 or 70 active websites -- and I would imagine each one has either a "Buy Now" or a "Subscribe here" button.

    In a previous post, Steven Wagenheim told us that he has 174 products available for sale (http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post1476286) and that he creates "2 to 4 products each month to keep me at 6 figures per year" (http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post1999643)

    For me, these numbers give a real idea of how many finished products you need to construct and sell to make a steady income from IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author DrGUID
    Great original post. Here's some more real numbers - I have 650 web pages and make around $6 a day on Adsense. My product sales (software B2B niche) are much more profitable, at up to $1000 a month, but they took a lot of effort to create. ClickBank is about $100 a month. My highest traffic pages get 2000+ visits a month (and I have a lot of them!). My total page views from real users is something like 750,000 a year.

    People who think they can do IM and make more than their day jobs are living in the clouds. Sure it's possible, but it requires massive action, unlimited ideas and/or a brilliant plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
    Andy - perfect post.

    One of the best posts I've read in a long time.

    I scan the headlines of the WSO's on occasion and yeah, I too can't get over how many are trying to sell "the" thing that makes people money "instantly".

    Heck - most of us built lists to get that "instant" money - and it doesn't always happen still, just because of various things (like, the offer is just not of interest on that day, or people just don't have the cash flow...) and other times they can't get it fast enough.

    I totally agree that it requires WORK! Those of us who DO make a full time living online worked our BUTTS off, and NOT just for a few days or even weeks to get there. (And most of us still do!) I for one have never been one to "sit back" and let the $ roll. It won't last that way, sorry - it's the truth in probably 99% of the cases.

    Sure you can lower the amount of time you spend "working" online if you want (do we really call it work these days? ) but you always have to keep going.

    AND... we too have to keep learning, otherwise you might find yourself falling into the dinosaur mentality and not be up on the "current" stage of the 'net, since it does change so fast.

    As you said, it really IS simple: read what you need to GET STARTED, then start TAKING ACTION.

    You won't be perfect - but I learned a long time ago (and I still have to remind myself of this sometimes!) - you don't HAVE to be perfect - just tweak and improve as you go.

    <short rant:>But PLEASE don't go telling others how to make fast cash if you have not done it yourself more than once!

    (This is probably my biggest frustration, watching people who say they've made $400+ in an hour or two... then sell a WSO on how to do it, only to know that they did it one time and ever since then they've made their $ by selling the WSO... not continually doing it themselves. (And even worse, it's just rehashed garbage that everyone else really already knows except they say they've developed some new technique that isn't new!)
    <end short rant>

    Amber
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  • Profile picture of the author Michele Buch
    Okay, I'm going to be the one bold enough to say "sour grapes" to your Sour Grapes post.

    This is not against you. I know you are sincere, a realist, and desire to be helpful, but is a terrible and even dangerous post (and thread), and I'll explain why.

    I T _ C O N T R A D I C T S _ T H E _ L A W _ O F _ A T T R A C T I O N !

    Whatever you believe is true and is what you will attract.
    If you believe IM is hard, it is. If you believe most people don't make anything, it's true. If you believe those making money are not making enough, it's true.

    However,
    If you believe IM is just a simple matter of learning some skills and following a plan, then it is.
    If you believe you can become extremely successful doing IM, then you are right.
    If you believe learning the skills and applying them is fun, enjoyable, and easy, then it is.

    One's thought vibrations are the crucial ingredient to being successful.
    Please don't stomp on people's dreams and visions of prosperity with your "reality check".

    Everyone, dream on!
    Let your higher self (and WF reviews) lead you to free resources or those worth purchasing.
    Read only things which will keep (or reset) your money thermostat set to high.
    Follow your instincts. (If you are in tune, you will not be lead astray.)
    Look at Joe Vitale's success and everyone featured in The Secret movie.

    We can all be very successful; it is just a matter of choice.

    Become a Professional Dreamer first, and your heart's desires will follow.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Michele Buch View Post

      Okay, I'm going to be the one bold enough to say "sour grapes" to your Sour Grapes post.

      This is not against you. I know you are sincere, a realist, and desire to be helpful, but is a terrible and even dangerous post (and thread), and I'll explain why.

      I T _ C O N T R A D I C T S _ T H E _ L A W _ O F _ A T T R A C T I O N !
      Hi Michele,

      Some people might say that you seeing sour grapes where there were none is a reflection of your own negative mindset.

      I understand your perspective.

      As an NLPer, Hypnotist and Life Coach - I am a firm believer (and liver) of the LOA.

      However - If you've got weeds in your garden there's no point telling yourself that the universe will sort them out for you.

      The Law Of Attraction is not meant to replace hard work.

      In fact - the opposite is true. You make your future by working and creating new opportunities and channels to receive what you desire.

      My OP is not designed to be hanging around the water-cooler complaining about how hard life is discussion.

      It's the opposite - I absolutely KNOW that anyone can have the success they desire - I've had amazing experience of this myself and have helped others achieve the same.

      I would never say that people shouldn't aim high and have dreams bigger than they have the right to think are reasonable.

      I say - GO FOR IT! Dream Big.

      If you got the impression that I thought something else - I apologize for my mis-communication.

      However, as someone who's been in IM for over 10 years and seen a lot of people become successful and even more struggle, I believe that seasoned marketers have a responsibility to help those behind them and it's my experience that a reality check is much needed from time to time - for everyone.

      If you don't ask yourself probing questions about your goals and your plans to get there (and your current actions), you can easily miss very fundamental elements that make all the difference between success and failure.

      Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Michele Buch View Post

      Okay, I'm going to be the one bold enough to say "sour grapes" to your Sour Grapes post.

      This is not against you. I know you are sincere, a realist, and desire to be helpful, but is a terrible and even dangerous post (and thread), and I'll explain why.

      I T _ C O N T R A D I C T S _ T H E _ L A W _ O F _ A T T R A C T I O N !

      *snipped*

      Become a Professional Dreamer first, and your heart's desires will follow.
      So you're saying if we went to all the places in the world where people are starving, and we just told them to BELIEVE that they will find food and escape their war-torn countries or whatever other situation - then they really COULD do it?

      That's awesome. You should go and tell them that. They will be very happy that you shared this powerful secret with them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

        So you're saying if we went to all the places in the world where people are starving, and we just told them to BELIEVE that they will find food and escape their war-torn countries or whatever other situation - then they really COULD do it?

        That's awesome. You should go and tell them that. They will be very happy that you shared this powerful secret with them.
        Hi Colin,

        I think that's a little harsh.

        While I don't agree completely with Michele's assessment of the situation - the law of attraction is just a label for the process of creating a positive and abundance mindset.

        I completely agree that peoples external environment can pretty much remove their own ability to create physical success in the way that we can do much easier when worrying about debts or replacing our mobile phones are the sort of problems we face.

        However - I've been to many places in the world where people are starving and I've been amazed and impressed by how creative, positive and truly happy some of those same people are.

        Maybe the scale is different but I honestly believe (based on my own experience) that there is a lot more to success than physical factors.

        I know from personal experience that when I was in massive debt and getting divorced and my mindset was negative that all it did was make my situation worse. And when it didn't change the physical situation - it made my mental state worse.

        In the same situation once I had decided to just face the problems and move forward - things felt better - then they got better - way better than I could ever have imagined at the time.

        I know a lot of people dismiss things like the LOA but usually those people are also struggling with problems in their life (lack of achievement / forward movement is a 'problem' for some people).

        I've yet to meet a truly successful person who didn't also believe that the LOA had substance.

        Andy
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Hi Colin,

          I think that's a little harsh.
          No I sort of agree, but I think it's exactly the kind of dangerous, seductive belief that your original post (which is excellent) was sort of speaking out against.

          I believe that it can be somewhat beneficial to be harsh with dangerous ideas, even if they might seem harmless at first.

          People who hold that belief will buy unneeded things to support that belief, and will keep doing so, without thought. I believe I will be a successful internet marketer one day, so I will byuy the tools that people say I need...

          I'm sure it's also comforting for some people to think that the reason their dreams haven't already come true are due to circumstances they CAN control rather than ones they cannot.

          The reason I think the whole "Secret" and "Law of Attraction" craze is so dangerous is this:

          It makes success an exercise in faith rather than effort. I don't want to start a religious discussion, but that kind of thing has happened before, what with the whole "you don't have to try to be good, just believe and things will get better, if not in your lifetime, certainly after you die."

          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          While I don't agree completely with Michele's assessment of the situation - the law of attraction is just a label for the process of creating a positive and abundance mindset.
          It's a misleading label for what essentially amounts to "try to look on the bright side of life, because you'll be happier". There's no universal law that attracts anything to you based on what you believe.

          It's simply an illusion built upon the fact that if you are a negative person, opportunities will pass you buy due to inaction, and people who could help you will avoid you and your negativity.

          But if you say "LOA" it helps people conveniently believe that ONLY the belief and the dream are necessary - the will causes the effect. When in fact, you and I know this isn't the case.

          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          I completely agree that peoples external environment can pretty much remove their own ability to create physical success in the way that we can do much easier when worrying about debts or replacing our mobile phones are the sort of problems we face.
          So are we agreeing then that the Law of Attraction doesn't work for poor people? Doesn't that mean it doesn't work?

          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          However - I've been to many places in the world where people are starving and I've been amazed and impressed by how creative, positive and truly happy some of those same people are.

          Maybe the scale is different but I honestly believe (based on my own experience) that there is a lot more to success than physical factors.
          Unless you live in the first world, then when we talk about LOA we mean financial and material success. I mean, do you think they move a lot of copies of "The Secret" DVD in North Korea?

          What you're describing is not LOA, but people's natural tendency to make the best of a bad situation, which is pretty much been the lot of the working class through all of human history.

          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          I know from personal experience that when I was in massive debt and getting divorced and my mindset was negative that all it did was make my situation worse. And when it didn't change the physical situation - it made my mental state worse.

          In the same situation once I had decided to just face the problems and move forward - things felt better - then they got better - way better than I could ever have imagined at the time.
          Is this something the universe did for you, or did you just buck up and start doing stuff again?


          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          I know a lot of people dismiss things like the LOA but usually those people are also struggling with problems in their life (lack of achievement / forward movement is a 'problem' for some people).

          I've yet to meet a truly successful person who didn't also believe that the LOA had substance.

          Andy
          Well, that's not really saying much, because otherwise the same kind of dummies that end up rich would have to admit that they are just very lucky dummies.

          Of course they want to believe that it's something fundamentally different about the way they think or feel that did it, not just the same sort of environmental factors that make people on the other side of the world from us have a very different experience.

          Faith in a result will not achieve that result. Desire is not gravity. The universe at large has zero investment in your success or even survival.

          It would be much more beneficial for people not to believe in their being deserving of having or capable of possessing the things they want, but rather having a confidence to believe in what they can already do, or what they can learn to do... That is to say REASONABLY learn and do within the confines of their environment.

          The "Law of Attraction" is as much of a law as "Murphy's Law" - when things happen to support it, we favor the idea. We ignore the examples that don't fit it - namely that it can't be a universal law if it only works for richer people in richer countries.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

            The "Law of Attraction" is as much of a law as "Murphy's Law" - when things happen to support it, we favor the idea. We ignore the examples that don't fit it - namely that it can't be a universal law if it only works for richer people in richer countries.
            I understand your perspective - but I think it's arrogant to assume that you know how the universe works and can dismiss things which are real for so many people.

            I can relate to your perspective but I also know enough about physics to know that we're influenced by non-visual things to levels we have no understanding.

            There's a reason that people who go crazy when there's a full moon are called lunatics - they're just more sensitive to gravitational effects than most people.

            Radio waves, magnetic waves, sound waves are all just different frequencies and when you consider that X-Rays can show you inside your body and Ultra-sound equipment is used to show a baby in the womb - It's obvious that there's more of a connection to our universe than our physical body.

            Now I'm not saying I understand it - just that I think we know enough not to assume we do understand it all.

            Therefore - I can't in good conscience agree that the things the LOA is relating to are purely associated with personal experience and mental state.

            There's a lot to be said for Placebo's in many forms - after all, most drugs that get sold only work as well as the placebo they were tested against (at best). So we're definitely much more productive when we're in a positive state of mind. I've seen people get through cancer successfully with a positive mindset - I can't prove it helped but I couldn't say it didn't.

            At the very least - even believing it does means you're happier - and that's got to be good.

            When it comes down to it - I think a health dose of positivity, expectation and belief are assets.

            I personally don't need that to be called the LOA or anything else to know it works for me, but I also have no intent or reason to prove otherwise.

            In the context I started this thread - There's a lot of BS in the world and that includes the IM world. So while I completely advocate a positive sense of expectation - I do think it's important to temper that with a realistic sense of direction.

            You can expect a million dollars to come to you - but your belief will be much higher if you are taking real actions that you can realistically equate to contributing to making it happen.

            Too many newbies get into IM because of massive hyped-up promises and then disassociate themselves from the responsibility.

            You can want great things - but if you believe you don't have to take action to make them happen you're likely to end up disappointed.

            Some people call fortune luck but the 'lucky' person always knows that their luck is an outcome rather than random.

            L.U.C.K. is "laboring under correct knowledge"

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            • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              I understand your perspective - but I think it's arrogant to assume that you know how the universe works and can dismiss things which are real for so many people.
              It's not arrogant to say that the Law of Attraction is a made up fictional thing. That whole "secret passed down through the ages" is a totally made up fictional story.

              Guys purported to be practitioners of the "Law of Attraction" - DaVinci, Newton, etc. - they were just privileged, intelligent men of means. OF COURSE they attracted success because they were the shining LIVING geniuses of their age. They didn't have a "secret" others didn't know.

              They were geniuses with mental capabilities beyond normal people. They had the financial means to provide FUEL to FEED those minds, and so they achieved greatness.

              But you know, sometimes there are idiots who are born kings, too.

              All kinds of things are "real" for all kinds of people that are not actually physically real. That's why belief and faith are such powerful forces. Belief does NOT shape shared reality, but it DOES shape behavior - in a way that DOES shape outside reality.

              For example, some people have beliefs that justify blowing themselves up in an effort to harm others. I KNOW their belief in a reward for that behavior is nonsense, but it doesn't make the consequences on our shared reality any less tangible.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              I can relate to your perspective but I also know enough about physics to know that we're influenced by non-visual things to levels we have no understanding.

              There's a reason that people who go crazy when there's a full moon are called lunatics - they're just more sensitive to gravitational effects than most people.
              No, they're called that because people mistakenly believed that the moon had ANYTHING AT ALL to do with mental illness. The word just stuck. Lunacy is no longer a valid diagnosis anywhere, so far as I know.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              Radio waves, magnetic waves, sound waves are all just different frequencies and when you consider that X-Rays can show you inside your body and Ultra-sound equipment is used to show a baby in the womb - It's obvious that there's more of a connection to our universe than our physical body.
              The bones inside your body and a baby in your womb are not parts of our physical body? Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think maybe what you said earlier about knowing enough physics was not correct.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              Now I'm not saying I understand it - just that I think we know enough not to assume we do understand it all.
              See, and here is exactly where you make the literal "leap of faith" that is so dangerous. Of course, wise people know that we don't know all there IS to know. But that doesn't mean that when faced with ignorance, we replace it with faith in things that have no quantifiable evidence in their favor.

              Just because we don't understand the fundamental quantum effects that our very consciousness and perception can have on the very fabric of the universe around us does not mean that the "Law of Attraction" is any less totally made up hoo-wah.

              Just as in the arguments for religion, "Science doesn't know yet" doesn't mean it's okay to put faith in things that are "beyond" science.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              Therefore - I can't in good conscience agree that the things the LOA is relating to are purely associated with personal experience and mental state.
              Since the "effects" of the LOA are ONLY reportable from personal experience and perspective (which are notoriously faulty recollections) and not from actual measurable... ANYTHING... what are you saying it's associated with? It seems to me to be PURELY an after the fact association.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              There's a lot to be said for Placebo's in many forms - after all, most drugs that get sold only work as well as the placebo they were tested against (at best).
              This is not how drug testing works.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              So we're definitely much more productive when we're in a positive state of mind.
              Yeah, that doesn't mean that there is any sort of universal force at play. That's just common sense. "Whistle while you work" is a little tune that predates the secret by a wide margin.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              I've seen people get through cancer successfully with a positive mindset - I can't prove it helped but I couldn't say it didn't.
              You've seen people get through cancer without the recommended treatment. They may have had a positive mindset, but you're the one making assumptions now if you presume the attitude alone led to recovery.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              At the very least - even believing it does means you're happier - and that's got to be good.
              So believing a lie is okay if it's more comforting than the truth? Why then is it not okay for people to keep buying ****ty IM products that promise easy money for no work? If it makes them feel better to believe that, what's the harm?

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              When it comes down to it - I think a health dose of positivity, expectation and belief are assets.
              Positivity is great. Belief in the outcomes of hard work and measurable data are great. Belief in your own ability to be up to the challenge is great. Belief that good things will come your way if you want them bad enough is a recipe not just for failure, but for unhappiness.


              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              I personally don't need that to be called the LOA or anything else to know it works for me, but I also have no intent or reason to prove otherwise.

              In the context I started this thread - There's a lot of BS in the world and that includes the IM world. So while I completely advocate a positive sense of expectation - I do think it's important to temper that with a realistic sense of direction.
              We agree on both these points. You can believe whatever you like, and there is totally a lot of BS in the world.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              You can expect a million dollars to come to you - but your belief will be much higher if you are taking real actions that you can realistically equate to contributing to making it happen.
              Your belief might be sky high, but that makes it no more or less likely to happen. What you DO matters, not what you believe in. The scenario above is true with or without the law of attraction even existing in the first place.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              Too many newbies get into IM because of massive hyped-up promises and then disassociate themselves from the responsibility.

              You can want great things - but if you believe you don't have to take action to make them happen you're likely to end up disappointed.
              Again, common sense, and has nothing to do whatsoever with LOA. Work hard at sensible things and you will generally be rewarded, barring chaotic tragedy.

              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              Some people call fortune luck but the 'lucky' person always knows that their luck is an outcome rather than random.

              L.U.C.K. is “laboring under correct knowledge”
              Luck is not an outcome. Successful people are perpetually prepared to capitalize on lucky breaks, and not get bogged down by unlucky setbacks. Luck is just that - luck. Even the most skilled people can be unlucky, and the least skilled can be greatly lucky.

              And no matter what you believe, or how hard you believe, you can't change your luck. You can change your efforts, and you can change your attitude. Neither change is a guarantee of success, but if you strive to be positive in both, you can be guaranteed satisfaction as long as you don't tie your happiness to an expectation.

              No one "deserves" anything. You can earn things, or be given things, or take things. Nothing will come to you automatically just because you want it.

              I think we really do believe the same thing here, Andy. It's just I feel that if you say "The Law of Attraction" works if you work really hard to get the things you want and have a good attitude - I say, that's true even without the LOA.

              In which case, Occam's Razor says it's a totally unnecessary concept. Just the same as when your parents buy you Christmas gifts whether or not you believe in Santa Claus. You'll still try to be good all year long, and they still reward you for it. The outcome is the same whether you believe or not. Not being able to DISPROVE the existence of Santa Claus doesn't mean that he exists.
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      • Profile picture of the author William Gent
        You are absolutely correct. That whole "Secret" thing is rubbish and is based on a layman's misunderstanding of "quantum" mechanics. But, it did sell books. Tell someone that lives in a slum shack of cardboard, whose father lives in a shack, that if they just believe, Ed McMahon will show up with a check at their shack.
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
          Originally Posted by William Gent View Post

          You are absolutely correct. That whole "Secret" thing is rubbish and is based on a layman's misunderstanding of "quantum" mechanics. But, it did sell books. Tell someone that lives in a slum shack of cardboard, whose father lives in a shack, that if they just believe, Ed McMahon will show up with a check at their shack.
          Bill
          You want to know what's the "smart person" version of the "Secret"? Check out a book called "The Fabric of Reality" by physicist David Deutsch. That is a freaking amazing book about how quantum physics, computational theory, epistemology, and evolutionary biology all fit together to form out perception of the universe and only HINT at what it really is made out of.

          I've bought and given away about 20 or 30 copies of that book since I first read it. It made me smarter. No lie.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

            You want to know what's the "smart person" version of the "Secret"? Check out a book called "The Fabric of Reality" by physicist David Deutsch. That is a freaking amazing book about how quantum physics, computational theory, epistemology, and evolutionary biology all fit together to form out perception of the universe and only HINT at what it really is made out of.

            I've bought and given away about 20 or 30 copies of that book since I first read it. It made me smarter. No lie.
            Agreed - that's a good book.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I don't think the OP was sour grapes at all. It was a dose of sheer reality that platitudes seldom address. Also the Law of Attraction does not state to ignore the realities of living, nor does it state to ignore the fundamentals of business.

    Regarding Andy's original post: it's one the most well-thought, put-together, succinct posts I’ve read in quite a while. More importantly, it’s a post that people need to read, especially those that are new or fairly new to online enterprise. He makes a great point about having knowledge and systems, etc. but it boils down to rolling up your sleeves and working hard. Every well-known (and some unknown) marketers that I’ve met or done business with started off working their ***** off. Some of them still do (usually by choice).

    Since day one I’ve advised newbies that the fundamentals are what’s going to make them wealthy. I still talk to a lot of new comers behind the scenes and it’s amazing at how consistently many of them fall into one or more of these scenarios:

    * Jumping from program to program / system-to-system with no real plan of any kind.

    * Believing that business fundamentals get thrown out the window simply because you’re on the Internet.

    * They don’t allow any one strategy enough time to see fruition. I’ve seen people quit PPC after investing $25. Sorry man, that’s not a real PPC test. I’ve also seen people post in this forum that after a few articles they don’t see any real traffic. Article marketing (a subset of content marketing) has changed BIG TIME over the past couple of years. It takes strategic keyword research, utilizing social media, combining it with videos, press releases, viral reports, etc. to really make it effective.

    * They think auto-blogging is a solution to all their problems.

    * They buy and buy and spend and spend instead of actually learning and implementing what they just invested in.

    * They don’t make any adjustments.

    * They think platitudes are going to help their business grow.

    * They don’t understand the power of compounding actions. Submitting two or three articles a day isn’t sexy, nor is it sexy to put it up on your own blog or website, then submitting the RSS feed to RSS directories, creating a video and submitting it and doing it several times a week. It isn’t sexy and you might not see results for a few months, but after a year or so, you would be blown away at how much traffic you’re getting. If you want your business to grow, I challenge you to do four promotional things for your business five days a week and after a year you will be astounded at your results.

    * They only promote a few offers or only have a couple of their own products. Marlon Sanders taught me ten years ago that if I wanted a pay raise, I should go out and create more products. To this day I am a non-stop product creation machine. Simply ASK what your prospects and customers want and then deliver it to them. Do that consistently while you’re building a list and you’ll be doing what 99% of the people in your niche are NOT doing.

    Okay, it’s time for a coffee break.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author jafris
    I am a newbie, and from what I have been learning through a coaching program of Alex Jeffrey, that it's all about building relationship than actually focusing money. The natural outcome of Relationship building in IM business is profitablity, and I hardly know of anyone who could build a relation with anyone over a single night.
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  • Profile picture of the author tush
    Andy wrote:
    1 - Don't underestimate the amount and consistency of work that is being done by people who seem to be 'easily and quickly' making great money.

    The best advice some one can get. Unless people realise that, they will probably keep spinning their wheel. There is definately a price to pay.
    tush
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  • Profile picture of the author MarcusEJC
    Great post! And I agree!

    This is why I am now sticking with Dan Brock's Profitzon guide, and seeing it through long-term. I've had it with the whole Get Rich Quick scams that are around. Dan's approach is a solid method. I've seen some minor success within a few months, and I understand how and why it will all work if I keep working hard at it.

    And that's what you need, a real workable long-term plan.

    When looking for a blueprint to follow, a basic rule of thumb to go by would be:
    1) Any guide that says you can make a huge amount of money in very little time with very little work, avoid it like the plague.
    2) Go for a guide that admits up-front that you will need to work hard in order to make it succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author brandon_holcomb
    I have been working at this whole internet game for 2 plus year soaking up the knowledge implementing the knowledge. Taking care of my son full time and still not making more then 50 bucks a week. The dedication is almost like a sick twisted desire to succeed that keeps me ticking. That peeks my interest. Its forums like this I find my self trapped in cause of all of the good info should bottle it up and sell that in an info product. There is a couple of neat things that I have learned along my journey. 1 you do not and I repeat do not earn money over night.
    2 You really have to have ADHD cause other wise switching gears and multi-tasking my friends will drive you nuts.

    Trying to shift threw the endless offers of bull will drive you mad when you are looking for key peaces of information on a niche topic. The idea the though of find that holy grail product or service to offer has just been offered folks its not your idea any more it never was.

    If you are not quick to decide and have cash to act. The internet is probably not the place for you. One more thing that I know for sure is do not sell on ebay. If you have dignity and self worth do not do it. You will loose your butt every single time. I know I have almost religiously. I go there hoping to sell a website i just created with blood sweat and tears and hours of pondering and producing and 10 bucks alone in to the domain name all to sell it for just .99 and baby the buyer along.

    My advice is in less you have a true sick twisted desire to succeed and a deep wallet you may as well threw in your hat now and quite while you are still ahead my friends and get that J.o.b that has been calling your name. I have done it all online short of pimping my self out locally and I don't mean in a good way threw the use of craigslist.

    That is my current ponder and thought process that I have been going threw lately. Another thing is you need to really like being by your self cause you will spend many many hours steering at your computer monitor no time to eat sleep family or friends when you are a Internet Marketer. In my quest for success and the delusions that Internet Marketing has caused me I have neglected many many responsibilities in the process all to be in the same spot if not worse off then when I started.

    With this I end Why is it that I find my self still obsessed with this Internet Marketing gig that I can not just let it go is it the thought that the all mighty dollar is just around that next website that next product that next WSO.

    Think about it my friends

    Take care
    Brandon Holcomb add a dot com after my name.
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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      A great original post brought out of the archives. In my opinion, newbies need to read the original post and even copy/paste it into a daily reminder file or print it and staple it to their forehead, just to make sure.

      Many misconceptions and opinions get thrown around every day and as was said previously, the train to BS land is always going to be at the station waiting for unsuspecting newbies to hop on. Sure they always ride it as far as they can stay interested but 95% of the time they end up in a desolate area with no signs pointing where to go next. BUT, there is another 5% which take a certain bullet point, paragraph or whatever and actually get over the hump. I don't think that every single claim that you can make $25,000 in 7 days is false. John Reese made a million dollars in one day, Frank Kern made 18 million...IN ONE DAY!

      Is Frank Kern simply smarter then you? Is John Reese luckier then you will ever be? Did Mike Filsaime have the upper hand? Did George Brown simply fall into making a ton of money in the last year or so?

      The answer to all those questions is NO! ..and amazingly if you were able to ask those guys directly they would probably tell you...the only reason they got to where they are...IS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IN THEMSELVES AND STUCK WITH IT!

      IF any newbie is ever going to make it anywhere online there has to come a point where their mentality changes. There is a crucial point in time when you have to decide for yourself what your outcome is going to be. Tony Robbins says it best: "your life could suck for ten years and become a 100% better in a few hours if only you would visualize and believe that it can."

      The quote in my signature is one of the best words of wisdom I have ever come across, that's why I put it there. I am 100% certain that I can achieve the goals I have set forth for my self this year, not because I have a secret or because I am smarter or better, but because I believe in myself and I know that nothing is going to stop me from achieving them.

      The people who can learn from mistakes, dedicate themselves and their time while applying simple logic will succeed in this business IF they put in the time and effort no matter what as long as they continue to visualize the goal and believe it is possible. The people who spend more time trying to disprove claims and start the trek with the mentality that it probably isn't going to work out WILL ALWAYS FAIL!

      Invest in yourself before you invest in someone else or any product!


      There is no doubt that you can build an online business and create an income that you only now sit and dream of, many have already done it!

      BUT how it was done is never the same, what got them over the hump is never the same, one thing though IS always the same...their mentality. The belief that they will succeed, the drive, determination and perseverance, the sheer audacity to physically create their dream from nothing and stick in it until it becomes reality is always shared amongst the successful internet marketers.

      Attain the knowledge, apply your logic, visualize your goals, attack it like your back is to the wall and NEVER give up!

      Truthfully, although I do not condone the creation of sizzling products with no real substance, if you buy a few on your journey it's not the end of the world. What is a real shame though is if you buy a good product with superb information and half ass it! Sure, blame the creator, spend your time conjuring up as much of a story and collection of reasons why it didn't work for you as much as you want, someone may listen, but nobody cares.



      In the end, your success relies on only one person, who do you think it is?


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      Whether you think you can, or think you can't, YOU'RE RIGHT!! <~~Henry Ford

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      • Profile picture of the author WealthyBlogger
        Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Tony Robbins says it best: "your life could suck for ten years and become a 100% better in a few hours if only you would visualize and believe that it can."

        The people who can learn from mistakes, dedicate themselves and their time while applying simple logic will succeed in this business IF they put in the time and effort no matter what as long as they continue to visualize the goal and believe it is possible. The people who spend more time trying to disprove claims and start the trek with the mentality that it probably isn't going to work out WILL ALWAYS FAIL!

        Invest in yourself before you invest in someone else or any product!
        .



        In the end, your success relies on only one person, who do you think it is?


        Absolutely great advice, whether it is online or offline business. Nothing is easy - unless it is relative to something else. It probably is "easier" today to set up a good quality website than it was back 12 years ago (it's a lot less expensive now too!), but effort - and lots of personal effort needs to be applied.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Muller
    @Andyhenry Well said Andy, certain points you mentioned 100% needed to be mentioned.

    @ramone_johnny - The amount of people that do that is scary!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author James Cowan
      I actually joined the Warrior Forum and the War Room before I bought any IM products from Clickbank. Thanks to you guys I am focusing on what has been proven to make money long term..stick to a niche you are passionate about and build a site and a list from that niche....the tools that help IMers are just there to help enhance your marketing efforts once you already have a solid foundation. Everyday, WF always has a post like Andy's that keeps us humble and realistic
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  • Profile picture of the author Formulam
    What a truly fantastic set of posts- but remember, we all want the sizzle (the question is whether we are willing to work for it) but without the picture (?sound) of the sizzle, we wouldn't be bothering in the first place, we'd all just carry on with our usual jobs. The sizzle has a place, but it isn't the whole picture!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Sanchez
    The truth is painful sometimes. People want a quick fix for everything and don't want to put forward the effort. Just like weight loss, there are no shortcuts. Put your nose the grindstone and be consistent.

    Great slap up side the head!
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
    Originally Posted by Stede Troisi View Post

    I agree with you but how do you know roughly 90% don't make any money online? How can you prove that? Actually, how can you prove that you make money online?

    The big question is passive income. How much work must go into a business model before it becomes passive?

    I am afraid passive income is becoming almost impossible today. Most people in IM, if they add up there time are freelancers. Actually, they would probably do better writing articles for magazines and have more time.

    - Stede
    You raise a REALLY interesting point here, and it's that almost all of the flighty fictional results touted in the products Andy is speaking out against are things that help with the CHASE. It's all what I think of as "pursuit" based marketing. You're chasing a result but if you stop running, no result.

    PPC for CPA is like this. It's spinning plates. You turn it off and it evaporates. You stop watching it and it breaks down.

    But when you talk about passive, I don't think anyone's reality is fully hands off. I think of it more of a waveform of slack. You work really hard and really intensely for shot bursts, and then maximize your slack time in between.

    Launching a product can position it in the serps for YEARS to come, and if you blog regularly and synicate content eventually you hit an audience that's so big, you can just maintain it with content and affiliate offers.

    But you have to PRODUCE. The benefit of the web is the automation. You don't have to write every email every time. You have an autoresponder. You don't have to write every blog post day by day - you can post date a month's worth in one day.

    When you focus on this - the BUILDING, not the CHASING, you actually GET somewhere. You have property. You have real estate. You have listings and links and content and traffic. You have SOMETHING. So that even if you stop chasing, your business still exists.

    That's something more newbies should learn - if you spent 1/2 the time doing work that you spend looking for ways to avoid doing the work, you'd be more than 2x farther ahead.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
      Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

      ...if you spent 1/2 the time doing work that you spend looking for ways to avoid doing the work, you'd be more than 2x farther ahead.
      Thank you, Colin. I need to get that quote tattooed on the inside of my eyelids...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Originally Posted by Stede Troisi View Post

    I agree with you but how do you know roughly 90% don't make any money online? How can you prove that? Actually, how can you prove that you make money online?

    The big question is passive income. How much work must go into a business model before it becomes passive?

    I am afraid passive income is becoming almost impossible today. Most people in IM, if they add up there time are freelancers. Actually, they would probably do better writing articles for magazines and have more time.

    - Stede
    I can understand why you (and others may think like that) but I have experienced it so it's impossible for me to doubt it's possible.

    I get Clickbank cheques for stuff I did years ago - and to be honest I couldn't stop them if I tried. I have no idea where some of my affiliate links are scattered around the internet. Some of them are in products so I can't even Google to find them.

    It's money that's truly passive to the point where I can't stop it.
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    The law of attraction doesn't work the way people think it does.

    People make a big deal about quantum physics and perception creating reality and invoke the names of Neils Bohr and Kurt Gödel as though they know what they're talking about.

    The LOA is just about perception.

    That's all it is. You don't manifest these things. They were already there, all around you, and you simply weren't paying attention.

    You'll be sitting in a Starbuck's one day, and the people behind you are nattering on about something or other like they do every day, and then you'll go home and read a book about some economic principle... and the next day, you'll notice those people behind you are discussing the same damn thing this economic principle explains.

    And you'll turn around, and be able to speak intelligently on the subject, and help them make more progress on the problem they're solving than they've made all week. They'll be impressed by your background and credentials. And the next thing you know, they want you to come in as a consultant on their project.

    But yesterday, you had the same background and credentials, and you didn't have the slightest damn clue that you'd be a good fit to consult on their project.

    An LOA junkie would say that you attracted that into your life through your hard work of learning this economic principle. That on some cosmic level, the UNIVERSE said "oooooo, go learn this economic thingamawhatsit" and you were compelled to do it so you could make the contact and introduce your credentials and get the consulting position.

    A religious freak would say more or less the same thing, except it would be God instead of the universe and instead of you "attracting" this, it would be "part of God's plan."

    But the reality is that it's just perception. Until you knew the economic principle, the people behind you were just nattering incoherently. Until they knew your background, you were just a guy in Starbuck's. Nobody attracted anything or made anything manifest. It was just there all along, but nobody noticed it.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      The law of attraction doesn't work the way people think it does.

      People make a big deal about quantum physics and perception creating reality and invoke the names of Neils Bohr and Kurt Gödel as though they know what they're talking about.

      The LOA is just about perception.

      That's all it is. You don't manifest these things. They were already there, all around you, and you simply weren't paying attention.

      You'll be sitting in a Starbuck's one day, and the people behind you are nattering on about something or other like they do every day, and then you'll go home and read a book about some economic principle... and the next day, you'll notice those people behind you are discussing the same damn thing this economic principle explains.

      And you'll turn around, and be able to speak intelligently on the subject, and help them make more progress on the problem they're solving than they've made all week. They'll be impressed by your background and credentials. And the next thing you know, they want you to come in as a consultant on their project.

      But yesterday, you had the same background and credentials, and you didn't have the slightest damn clue that you'd be a good fit to consult on their project.

      An LOA junkie would say that you attracted that into your life through your hard work of learning this economic principle. That on some cosmic level, the UNIVERSE said "oooooo, go learn this economic thingamawhatsit" and you were compelled to do it so you could make the contact and introduce your credentials and get the consulting position.

      A religious freak would say more or less the same thing, except it would be God instead of the universe and instead of you "attracting" this, it would be "part of God's plan."

      But the reality is that it's just perception. Until you knew the economic principle, the people behind you were just nattering incoherently. Until they knew your background, you were just a guy in Starbuck's. Nobody attracted anything or made anything manifest. It was just there all along, but nobody noticed it.
      So "The Secret" is "Shut Up And Pay Attention"? - I can get behind that.

      When you say it like that it starts to sound all Chaos Magick-y. That's usually on the next row over from the pseudo-religious-y self-helpy stuff in the bookstore. (Same section though... just saying.)
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

        When you say it like that it starts to sound all Chaos Magick-y.
        That's actually a great analogy, if you go back to Carroll's Liber Null in 1978: while belief as technique is one of the foundational principles, lacking the second - gnosis, the altered state of consciousness - it's simply worthless.

        What? With a name like Darklock, of course I know these things.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author PLRwithAlex
    I absolutely agree! Do something towards your goals everyday. Don't get distracted by all the noise of what's next and how to make it easy. It's not easy, but it can be fun!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan D
    Banned
    Law of a attraction? I was hoping people would've stopped talking about that back in 2006, no such luck I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Ryan D View Post

      Law of a attraction? I was hoping people would've stopped talking about that back in 2006, no such luck I guess.
      "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."
      Frank Zappa

      Now, I'm not trying to offend anyone by slamming the "secret" and the "LOA" and all that - it's just...

      If you're unhappy with what you've got, make a plan, work hard to work it, and have faith in the result that will come from a good plan well executed. Don't put faith in the power of positive thinking unless that is attached to some ass busting work. If you're looking for mentors, look to people who put faith in the same thing.

      I wouldn't know how to BEGIN to put trust in a mentor who credited his success to the Law of Attraction. Because, what can I learn from someone like that?

      It's like you know a guy who has made a lot of money playing roulette. And he wants to teach you his system. It involves betting based on the colors that have spun out on the wheel in previous spins.

      Now, this system has "worked" for him and he can prove it, and he swears by it.

      But you and I both (SHOULD) know that this system is NOT physically possible - he is just lucky. In roulette, NO previous spin of the wheel has ANY outcome on any future spin. That's what makes it a game of CHANCE. That's what makes it "fair".

      So what would be more profitable to you, if you wanted to follow in his footsteps. Copying what he BELIEVES? Or copying what he DOES?

      Now on the other side of that coin...

      If you've been fortunate enough to succeed with hard work and good luck, don't give the credit away to something so common as having big dreams.

      Everyone has big dreams but if you've made them count, YOU did that. It didn't gravitate towards you because of some tangle of electrons in your brain. What you have came into your hands because of what you actually did with those hands.

      For people aspiring to succeed like the people in the previous paragraph, I offer this advice: don't listen to what they tell you about what they think or believe. If you want to succeed the way they do, watch what they DO, and copy it.

      You'll have a lot better chance at succeeding than if you follow what people believe about how they got their outcomes. As CDarklock pointed out, the whole art of stage magic hinges on people's ability to trick themselves into believing things that are just not true.

      It's not only possible, it's more likely than not.

      But to the quoted poster's point - I ain't going to talk about it anymore if no one else does. I think I've said my piece and done my duty as far as I see it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

        "
        But to the quoted poster's point - I ain't going to talk about it anymore if no one else does. I think I've said my piece and done my duty as far as I see it.
        Haha - it's funny how we got side-tracked from one person mentioning it.

        Maybe there's a use for a separate thread about it because it's something that polarizes people and gets some good discussion going to question peoples beliefs about what drives their life and their experiences.

        It's a little like religion and although I'm not religious I do tend to push back when people who are try to tell me they 'know' the things they've read are true.

        I used to see religion as something that insecure people used to feel ok about their place in the world - but then 14 years in the military made me question my own perspective a few times and I just came to accept that although I couldn't see a scrap of evidence to support the 'facts', if people are happier thinking they've got the answers - good for them. It's not my place to question the way they live their life - I just don't want them forcing it on me.

        A little like IM again in some respects - there are people making good money doing things I would never do, but then again I make good money doing things other people wouldn't want to do, so I guess as long as we stick to what works for us - it's all good.

        I like public speaking, the bigger the audience the more I like it but that would scare the hell out of some people (I've had to do some hypnosis for people that felt that way).

        That's the beauty of IM - you can pick your own model and work it in the way that suits you and other people can do the same for themselves.

        The problem newbies often have is that they want someone else to give them their business model.

        I personally don't like to do that - I think they're much more able to create a better plan for themselves than me since they know their resources, limitations and preferences.

        But if people want to be sold a business model - there will be plenty of others lining up business models to sell them. It's just supply and demand.

        It seems that in the IM niche many people just want to be told what makes money but don't like the answer. Especially when they emulate someone who turns out to be a fraud and that only makes money by selling how to make money information. For some it works - the old fake it til you make it school of business. Some of the implementations make me sick but it seems to appeal to some people and you can certainly make money by blagging and lying to people - your repeat business just takes a hit.

        I hope that there's now enough information around to school newbies coming into IM that they don't need to buy into the hype and that the grass isn't as green as sales pages make them believe.

        I saw another video today with someone selling the 'getting quick and easy top google rankings means you'll make lots of money' slant of things and I just know that some people will think it's something new and powerful and spend money they don't have only to end up getting lots of 'top rankings' for things people aren't searching for and don't spend money on.

        I think I had 1000 sites at one point a few years ago which were based on the 'numbers game' side of things - but I found out after a lot of money and time that I can make much more money by focusing on a few sites than throwing up hundreds just to try and make lots of not much add up to something.

        It would be good to think that the pain some of us have been through is cut out for people starting out now.

        Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

        Everyone has big dreams but if you've made them count, YOU did that. It didn't gravitate towards you because of some tangle of electrons in your brain. What you have came into your hands because of what you actually did with those hands.
        Absolutely 100% true... However

        That can only happen if you believe you can do it

        If you believe you cant do it you will never start it or if you do start it you will never complete it.

        The LOA bit does have a part to play

        The unfortunate bit is believing isnt enough on its own to give you success

        BUT...

        Not believing is enough on its own to make sure you never succeed

        If you are a negative person you will attract negative people, and if you are a positive person you will attract other positive people...Thats what the law of attraction is all about
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          Absolutely 100% true... However

          That can only happen if you believe you can do it

          If you believe you cant do it you will never start it or if you do start it you will never complete it.

          The LOA bit does have a part to play
          What does believing you can do it have to do with believing that the universe will send you good things just by believing you will get them. This is what the "law of attraction" is. It is not "believing in yourself" - it is "if you believe you will get the stuff you want, you will get it".

          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          The unfortunate bit is believing isnt enough on its own to give you success
          Yeah, but then that makes it so the LOA is wrong - because that's what the LOA says, that it's enough to believe.

          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          BUT...

          Not believing is enough on its own to make sure you never succeed
          That's not entirely true - if you have the discipline to work a proven systematic plan, then even if you don't believe it will work, it will still work.

          Belief has very little to do with an outcome. Inaction does, and perhaps belief can lead to action or inaction, but that doesn't mean it's BECAUSE of the belief. It's action or inaction.

          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          If you are a negative person you will attract negative people, and if you are a positive person you will attract other positive people...Thats what the law of attraction is all about
          Again, that is not a "Universal Law" where you have some kind of unseen magnets drawing people in. It's common sense - if you act like a butt head, only butt heads will be able to stand you. If you're nice and fun to be around, people will like being around you.

          This is because of human nature, not magical cosmic laws.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ryan D
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

            Again, that is not a "Universal Law" where you have some kind of unseen magnets drawing people in. It's common sense - if you act like a butt head, only butt heads will be able to stand you. If you're nice and fun to be around, people will like being around you.

            This is because of human nature, not magical cosmic laws.
            Ha. Nice use of the word "butt head".
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post


            Yeah, but then that makes it so the LOA is wrong - because that's what the LOA says, that it's enough to believe.
            Don't take this the wrong way but I think you're focusing much closer on the LOA thing than everyone else.

            It seems like you're on a crusade to disprove it - but no-one here is fighting you.

            From the posters so far (including myself) the references to LOA are more from the perspective of the value of a positive mindset, belief in your ability to produce results and that your actions are part of the path to success.

            I don't think there's much value in arguing every reference to the LOA because for most people they're not taking the literal meaning which you're pushing against.

            In fact - we all seem to be saying that you need to work hard, take consistent action, and have the confidence and belief that your actions are worthwhile - in order to have a realistic expectation of success.

            For most people success is a habit - if you look at unsuccessful people they generally are not actually working as hard as those that are successful. They'll quite often think they are, say they are and even complain about how hard they work - but if they are it's usually temporary or in an unfocused way - otherwise they'll have started getting some success.

            I've shared many strategies here over the years that I've used myself to make good money but I know that most people won't actually put the work in to get the same results.

            I'm fundamentally a lazy person so I've got good at being productive and efficient so that I can get a lot done without as much effort as I used to spend for the same results.

            Many of my coaching clients come to me having spent several years struggling in IM and they all have one thing in common - they've never stuck to focusing on just one thing until it worked.

            Most people have everything they need to be successful - except the amount of action being taken.

            We all like to think that we're doing everything we can so we've all got our excuses for why results aren't always as good as we'd expected.

            I think it's important for people to just take a step back and look at why they're in IM and whether their current actions actually make sense with reference to the goals they're hoping to achieve with them.

            Many people think that IM is a hit and hope thing where you just have to try stuff until something works - that's why they jump from one thing to another so much - looking for the next thing to try.

            Quite often all they really need is to sanity check their plan and then stick to it.

            Andy
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            nothing to see here.

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            • Profile picture of the author shmeeko69
              Some great advice for most folk on this thread. I now stick to the old saying "If it sounds to good to be true, then it usually is". Think about it, if a marketeer is selling a product on a smart landing page for $49 & promises you, you'll be making $1000 a