Is this fair?

14 years ago

Are you mad at a special someone or just simply going against mods?

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money2k

14 years ago

I have not seen this but it does not surprise me.

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AmyBrown

14 years ago

If the post violates the rules, report it. Starting another thread about it seems childish.

and as my Mom used to tell me, and I tell my kids, life's not fair.

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Igor Kheifets

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

If the post violates the rules, report it. Starting another thread about it seems childish.

and as my Mom used to tell me, and I tell my kids, life's not fair.

I support Amy on this one.

If you have a problem with someone, report him
or get over it. Either way, starting a thread about
it doesn't do any good to the forum or its members.

Igor

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Jill Carpenter 14 years ago

Is the other post asking for emails? Requesting an opt-in? If so, then it breaks the rules.

If the person is freely giving out some free samples which are not pumping affiliate links, etc - then that is another story.
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- Heidi White 14 years ago
  
  I'm not sure what the OP is referring to, but sometimes I see things that APPEAR to be manipulations or violations along lines other than he's describing.
  
  Most commonly, I see posts which seem to cross the line from providing information to getting people to see a product that the poster has for sale. Often these are in the form of an informative, but none-the-less clearly promotional eFREE BOOKs.
  
  Often the responders will be new people with less than 25 posts, who will then begin a dialogue with the original poster about 'why that system works so well' and thus a discussion about whether or not they should invest in the product which the eBook eludes to.
  
  These two sections seem to have the most examples of this phenomenon:
  
  http://www.warriorforum.com/make-money-online/ and Internet Marketing Product Reviews & Ratings
  
  I rarely see any common posters from the main discussion forum getting involved in these threads, and it's possible that some people are getting sales down there without ever paying a nickle for a WSO.
  
  Regarding reporting someone, that's hard for a newbie to do. The rules aren't crystal clear and gawd forbid we make any enemies. There's one thread which I pm'd a moderator about, never got a response on, and it's still there (the mod was the MIA KF - so that might have some bearing) but nonetheless it didn't make me confident enough to press the report button.
  
  After reading the FREE EBOOK newbies were posting about clearly buying the product and discussing their purchase with the OP in that thread.
  
  Yeah - I don't think it's fair that some people can make sales outside of the WSO and get away with it, but I'm not willing to risk my status bitching about it. (anymore than I've just done...)
  
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Rob Barbour

14 years ago

Just remember that policing forums of this size take a great deal of time and things slip through the cracks. I've run large forums like this and even a large BBS (many many years ago) and it's a delicate balance between keeping things in line and your own sanity

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mitchymoo

I guess what I'm asking is why do some people think it's okay to start a thread offering their services whilst others PAY (rightly so) for a WSO even if they are giving away a free service.

You know, you have to make choices when you are marketing. You choose to pay for listings, you can choose for free places to list.

Does not matter if the service is FREE or not. When someone posts in the WSO's they are paying for ADVERTISING SPACE. You are paying to be seen in a particular area - and you are partly paying for the ability to collect something from the visitor be it a name or money or what ever.

If you run an ad in the NY Times for a lot of money, and another guy is on the street passing out his flyers offering the same service - is that fair?

How dare he offer to wash cars for free! Especially when you offer a free car wash to someone who comes by to get their car detailed.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Is the other post asking for emails? Requesting an opt-in? If so, then it breaks the rules.

If the person is freely giving out some free samples which are not pumping affiliate links, etc - then that is another story.

This person asking people to pm him. He' sent me an email saying that he has people wanting to pay him for the services he's advertising.

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

You know, you have to make choices when you are marketing. You choose to pay for listings, you can choose for free places to list.

Does not matter if the service is FREE or not. When someone posts in the WSO's they are paying for ADVERTISING SPACE. You are paying to be seen in a particular area - and you are partly paying for the ability to collect something from the visitor be it a name or money or what ever.

If you run an ad in the NY Times for a lot of money, and another guy is on the street passing out his flyers offering the same service - is that fair?

How dare he offer to wash cars for free! Especially when you offer a free car wash to someone who comes by to get their car detailed.

I see your point here but the guy is advertising the same service as I offer in the same way as I did with my WSO but he hasn't paid to advertise his services.

I'm sorry for the way the question has come across. But as a right minded user of this forum would you not expect to pay for the privilege of advertising your services on a forum such as this?

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mitchymoo

This person asking people to pm him. He' sent me an email saying that he has people wanting to pay him for the services he's advertising.

Yes, he is doing what is called "forum marketing" and sounds like he is quite good at it.

So, why did he say people want to pay him for the services? And if you are offering them for free, should you maybe re-think that?

Originally Posted by Mitchymoo

I see your point here but the guy is advertising the same service as I offer in the same way as I did with my WSO but he hasn't paid to advertise his services.

Is his thread an exact copy of your sales copy? Is he asking people to opt in on a thread somewhere in order to get his service?

Originally Posted by Mitchymoo

I'm sorry for the way the question has come across. But as a right minded user of this forum would you not expect to pay for the privilege of advertising your services on a forum such as this?

I advertise other things in my signature. They are free. I even get a sign up or two.

Have not paid for months to promote that free offering. So you are telling me I should pay for what is in my signature (other than the WSO)?

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Kay King

14 years ago

I think it would be wise to understand what is being said here.

Is the person promoting this in a thread he started or contributed to in the main forum section? If so, and if the post is a clear promotion, report it.

Or - is the promotion appearing in a signature.

You can't use forum threads to just promote your products and tell people to pm you without running a paid ad here. Anyone posting here should know that and reporting such threads usually results in deletion of the thread very quickly.

If someone is copying your advice and offering a competing product in their signature, that's a different matter.

I see people arguing - but I'm not sure they are on the same page in this thread or are even talking about the same thing.

kay

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think it would be wise to understand what is being said here.

Is the person promoting this in a thread he started or contributed to in the main forum section? If so, and if the post is a clear promotion, report it.

Or - is the promotion appearing in a signature.

You can't use forum threads to just promote your products and tell people to pm you without running a paid ad here. Anyone posting here should know that and reporting such threads usually results in deletion of the thread very quickly.

If someone is copying your advice and offering a competing product in their signature, that's a different matter.

I see people arguing - but I'm not sure they are on the same page in this thread or are even talking about the same thing.

kay

He's started a thread in the main IM forum for the sole purpose of advertising his own service. I'd have no problem if it was just in his signature.

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

He's started a thread in the main IM forum for the sole purpose of advertising his own service. I'd have no problem if it was just in his signature.

Then report it. When a mod sees it, it will go away. And, if he's new or has a history of this, so will the poster.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Yes, he is doing what is called "forum marketing" and sounds like he is quite good at it.

So, why did he say people want to pay him for the services? And if you are offering them for free, should you maybe re-think that?

Is his thread an exact copy of your sales copy? Is he asking people to opt in on a thread somewhere in order to get his service?

I advertise other things in my signature. They are free. I even get a sign up or two.

Have not paid for months to promote that free offering. So you are telling me I should pay for what is in my signature (other than the WSO)?

Advertising something in your signature is different to starting a thread for the sole purpose of advertising a service you offer, because it's not direct advertising.

Which is the reason most people either pay for a wso or a warrior for hire listing. This person has done neither.

I wouldn't expect to go on a forum and start a thread saying "hey guys I offer X service, are you interested?" without paying for the privilege to do so.

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Can you pm me the thread to which you are referring?

If he is doing something really wrong, I'll even report it for you.

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Kay King

14 years ago

I rarely see any common posters from the main discussion forum getting involved in these threads, and it's possible that some people are getting sales down there without ever paying a nickle for a WSO.

Regarding reporting someone, that's hard for a newbie to do.

Many of us never visit those sections unless we see something scammy or unusual going on there. That's because when you have a business you don't need to be searching for free make money products or reading the sales pages of every new product launched.

If a new product is useful, you'll hear about it without constantly looking for something to buy. That's why you don't see long time marketers in those sections very often.

Reporting is simple. Just click the "!" in the little triangle to the left at the bottom of the post and type in a reason and the mods will take a look and make a decision. You aren't hurting anyone or attacking anyone - and you help keep the forum spam and scam free.

Report only posts that you can clearly see violate the rules or spirit of the WF. If unsure, don't worry about it as one report won't delete anything.

kay

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Kay King

14 years ago

The only free offering I see by the OP is one to write a free article. Whether allowable in the main forum or not is debatable. In the past some threads offering free articles have been allowed in the main forum. However, the OP is clearly requiring a confirmation which indicates being added to a list and that would probably not be allowed in non-ad sections.

kay

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

However, the OP is clearly requiring a confirmation which indicates being added to a list and that would probably not be allowed in non-ad sections.

kay

Kay, it looked to me like he is looking for contact info so he can get the proper details and deliver.

Is 10 random people really going to be of benefit? He has no idea what niches might get thrown at him.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Kay, it looked to me like he is looking for contact info so he can get the proper details and deliver.

Is 10 random people really going to be of benefit? He has no idea what niches might get thrown at him.

The thread I was referring to initially is not the one mentioned in this thread but it was similar in its approach

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Well, that was your choice to pay for the advertising space IMO.

You could have offered some freebies here on the forum.

As Kay said, it's been done before.

It is all in the approach.

If you said something like

"Hi, I am a new member and I am looking to get into article writing but I need some feedback on work. I am willing to give away 5 free samples of my work to the next people who post"

Then I bet you would not have had to do the WSO if that was all you were offering and looking for.

And I did read Paul Myers mention somewhere that would be the best place to offer free stuff like this, but I can't remember which forum he preferred it in.

As a member and a moderator (we are all moderators) I am not offended by people offering free things with no sign up if they are looking for some reviews and feedback.

This of course is all my opinion, and ultimately is up to admin if this should be allowed.

If you are seriously offended by it, the best you can do is submit a support ticket (do no PM anyone, just submit a real ticket).

Those do get read and looked at.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Well, that was your choice to pay for the advertising space IMO.
I did that because I was I thought it was a reuirement and only fair to those otherpeople who'd paid for a WSO to advertise a free product.

"Hi, I am a new member and I am looking to get into article writing but I need some feedback on work. I am willing to give away 5 free samples of my work to the next people who post"
.

I didn't think you could post threads like this as they would be seen as self-promoting, which is against forum rules.

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Kay King 14 years ago

I think the way you did it is more professional. Don't aim for the lower level just because others do. Having higher standards sets you apart.
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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mitchymoo

I didn't think you could post threads like this as they would be seen as self-promoting, which is against forum rules.

It's a fine line.

I understand Kay's pov that it is a "more professional" way to handle things.

I also know what it is like to be new and starting out with something, have no money, and need a little help.

And you are willing to do what ever it takes, meaning give away your time for nothing.

Anytime you have a question about what is and is not allowed, it really is recommended to just submit a support ticket.

This forum really has a lot of things in order.

Search feature, and support system.

I'm sorry if you feel jipped or mislead.

Everyones business is so different, it is nearly impossible to give someone a true "do this and that in this order" and have a clear line on how things should be done.

There are always things that will arise that will cost money, and things you will need to spend on.

It can be very time consuming to find the best answers (I know this more than anyone).

Either way, I hope your result from your WSO was all you had hoped for.

Again, sorry if you feel cheated.

You have a choice to do what you want to try to change the policy, or to move ahead with your own business.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Well, that was your choice to pay for the advertising space IMO.

You could have offered some freebies here on the forum.

As Kay said, it's been done before.

It is all in the approach.

If you said something like

"Hi, I am a new member and I am looking to get into article writing but I need some feedback on work. I am willing to give away 5 free samples of my work to the next people who post"

Then I bet you would not have had to do the WSO if that was all you were offering and looking for.

And I did read Paul Myers mention somewhere that would be the best place to offer free stuff like this, but I can't remember which forum he preferred it in.

As a member and a moderator (we are all moderators) I am not offended by people offering free things with no sign up if they are looking for some reviews and feedback.

This of course is all my opinion, and ultimately is up to admin if this should be allowed.

If you are seriously offended by it, the best you can do is submit a support ticket (do no PM anyone, just submit a real ticket).

Those do get read and looked at.

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

It's a fine line.

I understand Kay's pov that it is a "more professional" way to handle things.

I also know what it is like to be new and starting out with something, have no money, and need a little help.

And you are willing to do what ever it takes, meaning give away your time for nothing.

Anytime you have a question about what is and is not allowed, it really is recommended to just submit a support ticket.

This forum really has a lot of things in order.

Search feature, and support system.

I'm sorry if you feel jipped or mislead.

Everyones business is so different, it is nearly impossible to give someone a true "do this and that in this order" and have a clear line on how things should be done.

There are always things that will arise that will cost money, and things you will need to spend on.

It can be very time consuming to find the best answers (I know this more than anyone).

Either way, I hope your result from your WSO was all you had hoped for.

Again, sorry if you feel cheated.

You have a choice to do what you want to try to change the policy, or to move ahead with your own business.

I suppose you're right in that respect, thankyou for providing me with another perspective on this issue. I do respect what you've said and it just reminds me that these things are not simply black and white.

You see, the whole point of this thread was not just to bemoan the posting of the above mentioned thread, but to clarify what is seen as fair and within the rules on this forum regarding advertising.

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stevenhank

Banned 14 years ago

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Mitchymoo 14 years ago

Originally Posted by stevenhank

This seems sketch. It's a big forum

How do you mean?
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- AmyBrown 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mitchymoo
  
  How do you mean?
  
  You're asking the guy with a link to a "WSO" in his signature that isn't a WSO (as the term is normally used in this forum)?
  
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WyzoMarketing

14 years ago

If you feel that it's unfair go on and report him, and you'll see what a mod says about it. Btw a WSO receives a lot more traffic so you don't have to be afraid of losing customers.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WyzoMarketing

If you feel that it's unfair go on and report him, and you'll see what a mod says about it. Btw a WSO receives a lot more traffic so you don't have to be afraid of losing customers.

I know but the point is it's against the rules to self promote in a main forum post. I was going to report it but when I saw other people taking up the offer, I was thinking " why hasn't this been reported?" and was wondering if I was wrong to think it should be reported. That's why I started this thread.

It wasn't meant to come across as some childish tittle-tattle. I was merely looking for validation either way.

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MJ Sterling

14 years ago

Is it something like this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...t-10-only.html ?

Note the original poster has been banned, so it should give you a good indication of how a situation like that is treated.

He offers a free service, which is OK, very pleased to get a free article right, but then he starts to email you every day asking for paid work..

I have no idea if the thread you're talking about is anything like the one I described, but if it is, I don't blame you for being annoyed - but with that said, if folks spent more time worrying about how they run their own business instead of how others operate theirs, there'd be more success stories all round. Althought if someone is breaking the rules of the forum it's our duty as members to report it.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MJ Sterling

Is it something like this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...t-10-only.html ?

Note the original poster has been banned, so it should give you a good indication of how a situation like that is treated.

He offers a free service, which is OK, very pleased to get a free article right, but then he starts to email you every day asking for paid work..

I have no idea if the thread you're talking about is anything like the one I described, but if it is, I don't blame you for being annoyed - but with that said, if folks spent more time worrying about how they run their own business instead of how others operate theirs, there'd be more success stories all round. Althought if someone is breaking the rules of the forum it's our duty as members to report it.

Its very similar to that actually!

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Kay King 14 years ago

Pretty clear what the consequences can be, isn't it?
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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Ha ha,

Ok, this thread says "The FIRST 10 People who write in this thread" and honestly, it is FREE with no asking for a sign up. It is a service that I saw and was like DANG once I realized I would not have a shot (saw it when it first popped up.)

Here is the thing. He can do that, but only because he is not asking for names. Also, there is no guarantee people will get their service (I recently had someone else offer me similar service and never got it), and there is no guarantee on the service, and there is no guarantee for HIM that anyone will give him a review that he likes.

Obviously, he is getting some reviews so he can properly offer his service somewhere.

That original thread will DIE because he will not keep offering free "blank" if he has half a brain and is any good.

I actually think it is wise for people to offer up a free sample to get reviews - but that is just my opinion. If you have no track record, it is necessary sometimes.

The quota has been filled, so it's not like anyone is losing business. It is just additional they will have to spend in the WSO's as this service never seems to have enough good service people.

I am not reporting the post.

That is my take on it.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Ha ha,

Ok, this thread says "The FIRST 10 People who write in this thread" and honestly, it is FREE with no asking for a sign up. It is a service that I saw and was like DANG once I realized I would not have a shot (saw it when it first popped up.)

Here is the thing. He can do that, but only because he is not asking for names. Also, there is no guarantee people will get their service (I recently had someone else offer me similar service and never got it), and there is no guarantee on the service, and there is no guarantee for HIM that anyone will give him a review that he likes.

Obviously, he is getting some reviews so he can properly offer his service somewhere.

That original thread will DIE because he will not keep offering free "blank" if he has half a brain and is any good.

I actually think it is wise for people to offer up a free sample to get reviews - but that is just my opinion. If you have no track record, it is necessary sometimes.

The quota has been filled, so it's not like anyone is losing business. It is just additional they will have to spend in the WSO's as this service never seems to have enough good service people.

I am not reporting the post.

That is my take on it.

Ok I see what you mean, but is it fair that one person pays for a thread like that but the other person thinks they shouldn't have to?

For example the wso I paid for was along the same lines as that, offering a free article to a certain amount of people.

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AmyBrown

14 years ago

Assuming I found the correct post "Gift From Me Too Warriors" there are numerous grammatical errors from the title on down. I'm a little surprised at some of the people that requested articles.

He's requesting testimonials, which no one has yet given, and it's my understanding that's not allowed.

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Mitchymoo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

Assuming I found the correct post "Gift From Me Too Warriors" there are numerous grammatical errors from the title on down. I'm a little surprised at some of the people that requested articles.

He's requesting testimonials, which no one has yet given, and it's my understanding that's not allowed.

Thats the one!

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TVChatten

14 years ago

To be honest, I can see where MitchyMoo is coming from. Even I thought you had to pay to offer any type of services on the Warrior Forum. Just thought I'd add that end...and make them feel bad as not to think they were the only one that thought that.

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Jill Carpenter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TVChatten

To be honest, I can see where MitchyMoo is coming from. Even I thought you had to pay to offer any type of services on the Warrior Forum. Just thought I'd add that end...and make them feel bad as not to think they were the only one that thought that.

Well, if you want to change something or this bothers you, then like minded people should rally together and put in the suggestion.

If you deny services, then you have to also consider denying any freebies anyone is offering like ebooks, tutorials, etc.

I see a lot of these things offered as "quick samples"

They go fast and don't seem to rule this main forum area.

To me they are more like finding a penny on the sidewalk.

Yes, I do pick those up. I need my exercise, and it is money.

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TVChatten

14 years ago

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

Well, if you want to change something or this bothers you, then like minded people should rally together and put in the suggestion.

If you deny services, then you have to also consider denying any freebies anyone is offering like ebooks, tutorials, etc.

I see a lot of these things offered as "quick samples"

They go fast and don't seem to rule this main forum area.

To me they are more like finding a penny on the sidewalk.

Yes, I do pick those up. I need my exercise, and it is money.

Hahaha I meant to say and make them (MitchyMoo) not feel bad! Definitely a big typo (I was talking to someone on AIM at the same time). Lol, so sorry about that. Change? I never said anything about change, I was just stating (or meaning to state) that I too thought one had to pay for anything posted as a WSO or just classifieds, etc. on WF. The rules, I can deal with...just didn't want to make MitchyMoo feel alone.

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thecobrasden

14 years ago

These thread wasted alot of my time.... It had useless info but for some odd reason the drama just kept me reading. Thanks alot guys!!! J/P :p

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Mitchymoo 14 years ago

Originally Posted by thecobrasden

These thread wasted alot of my time.... It had useless info but for some odd reason the drama just kept me reading. Thanks alot guys!!! J/P :p

I wouldn't say that a debate is useless, especially when debating the fairness of some the practices that go on here. A forum is designed to be a place where people hold discussions such as this.

Jacob
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Jay Dalton

14 years ago

If you take a look at the rules and any of them have been violated then yes its not right. However if no rules have been broken your basically just working with honestful deceit, Its one of them, where its not right to do, but its also not wrong. Its a moral thing more than anything.

hope this helps

-J-

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Heidi White

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jay Dalton

If you take a look at the rules and any of them have been violated then yes its not right. However if no rules have been broken your basically just working with honestful deceit, Its one of them, where its not right to do, but its also not wrong. Its a moral thing more than anything.

hope this helps

-J-

Honestful Deceit - now that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

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Is this fair?

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