Would you refund a second refund request?

86 replies
Hello Warriors,

I was wondering your thoughts on this, as I have a feeling it's about to happen.

You have a customer order a product.

The customer asks for a refund - you give it to them.(access to the product is cut off)

The customer goes on their way, but decides to come back a couple months later to buy the same course from you again.

They then put in a second refund request for the same product.

Would you give it to them?

I don't really care about the money, it's mostly the principle of the matter. They already tried it once and were refunded. They know what they are getting into the second time, yet they bought it again.

Yes, I do offer a 30 day refund period. However, I feel like it should only apply to their first transaction since 30 days has long since past between the first transaction and the 2nd one.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Dan
#refund #request
  • Profile picture of the author Groovy99
    HELL NO . no money for that one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane N
    That's just ridiculous! Maybe they bought it the second time so that they could save it to their hard drive before they got the refund! (via screenshots, etc.) -- I would try to ask them why they did this twice and bust their chops a little bit, but due to your 30 policy it can be a tough one.

    It's the price of doing biz online!

    Darn thieves.

    Best,
    Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    Hi Daniel

    If you're offering a refund, then if I was you, I'd grit my teeth and give it, then I'd try and ensure I blocked that person from ever buying from me again.

    I agree with Shane, I'd def ask them why they bought again as well

    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author JennSpencerIM
    I'd say unless your refund policy states what you said above that it only applies to the first order, then you need to issue the refund since you have a 30 day return policy. Let this person know that you will not sell them any additional products in the future. Can you not fulfill their order in the future or is it automated? I'd say to go ahead and add a clause to your refund policy so its clear in case this happens again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovy99
    Don't offer refunds. Go out of your way to make the point that you are both business people responsible for your own investments. This will scare away the faint of heart.

    You will still get people who demand a refund and you will have to give it to them because of merchant agreements, but the frequency goes waaaaay down.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lett
    I wouldn't give him refund, it's his fault to buy a bad product (in his opinion, if he asked refund both times) twice.
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  • Profile picture of the author money2k
    I agree with Steve. Give the guy his money back and ban this dude from buying any more of your products. I have dealt with something similar before and customers like these can be real headaches.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Reed
    I agree with Steve here - it may not even be an intentional duplication though.
    I have actually bought the same product twice myself (about 2 weeks apart).
    Got carried away by the apparent value and totally forgot I had a copy sitting in my "Downloads awaiting action" box!!

    I hadn't asked for a refund though and this example smacks of either sharp practice or plain stupidity!
    A friend of mine follows a simple maxim (and I'm now applying it too) - just refund and move on, getting worked up about it doesn't do you any good and probably would have no effect on either those in the "Sharp Practice" bracket or those who are just too stupid to know any better! Just treat it as part of the internet environment - and if your process allows for it then yes - BAN THEM!

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
      I know what I probably should do...

      I just don't want to do it because this person is really getting under my skin.

      From the start I knew they would be a problem by the pre-sales questions they were asking.

      'I don't want to insult you or anything but I am only willing to spend $15 dollars for this because more well known and reputable marketers are offering the same thing for cheaper...' (at this point they had no clue as to the content in my course).

      I politely replied back 'I'm sorry but I can't give any more discount than what I already give on my promo page'.

      The person replies back 'I see that you don't care about your customers like _________. blah blah blah if you really cared you would give it to me blah blah blah'

      At this point I'm thinking to myself 'good this person isn't going to buy my course. Thank god!'.

      The next day, to my horror, I see their order.

      'Here comes the refund request....'

      Sure enough, a few hours later and there is the refund request email waiting for me on cue.

      I gladly issued the refund to get them out of my business forever.

      Good bye!

      Then about last week I get an email from this person asking where they can get the course again at the discount rate that it was offered at before.

      You can bet I didn't reply.

      Then just the other day I see the persons name in my Paypal history(they must have found the promo on their own)...

      Ohhhhhhh Fudggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

      Sure enough...this character is starting up the old act again.

      I am expecting the 2nd refund request any minute now.
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      • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
        Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

        I know what I probably should do...

        I just don't want to do it because this person is really getting under my skin.

        From the start I knew they would be a problem by the pre-sales questions they were asking.

        'I don't want to insult you or anything but I am only willing to spend $15 dollars for this because more well known and reputable marketers are offering the same thing for cheaper...' (at this point they had no clue as to the content in my course).

        I politely replied back 'I'm sorry but I can't give any more discount than what I already give on my promo page'.

        The person replies back 'I see that you don't care about your customers like _________. blah blah blah if you really cared you would give it to me blah blah blah'

        At this point I'm thinking to myself 'good this person isn't going to buy my course. Thank god!'.

        The next day, to my horror, I see their order.

        'Here comes the refund request....'

        Sure enough, a few hours later and there is the refund request email waiting for me on cue.

        I gladly issued the refund to get them out of my business forever.

        Good bye!

        Then about last week I get an email from this person asking where they can get the course again at the discount rate that it was offered at before.

        You can bet I didn't reply.

        Then just the other day I see the persons name in my Paypal history(they must have found the promo on their own)...

        Ohhhhhhh Fudggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

        Sure enough...this character is starting up the old act again.

        I am expecting the 2nd refund request any minute now.
        How bout this...

        Since you don't want his business, give him a refund NOW before he does
        the inevitable and asks you for it again.

        You CAN fire your own customers if you want.

        Since it is YOUR business, you have the choice who you do business with.

        If they're being a pain in the ass, you reserve the right to not let them have
        access to your stuff by either telling them you don't want them as a customer
        or issuing them a prompt refund after they purchase and blocking them from
        accessing the download page or membership area.

        Is it really worth all of the energy and time you already wasted for the paltry $15?

        It's taking so much space in your mind that you even felt compelled enough
        to start a thread here.

        Refund him, flush him out of your system, then move forward.

        - Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
    he/she clearly knows exactly what's in your package before
    they made their second purchase... What was their reason
    for the second refund request?

    Glenn
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
      Originally Posted by Glenn Leader View Post

      he/she clearly knows exactly what's in your package before
      they made their second purchase... What was their reason
      for the second refund request?

      Glenn
      The 2nd refund request hasn't come in yet but I feel it coming any minute now based on the act they put on prior to their first refund request, and the way they are emailing me now.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
      Refund

      If you are allowing refunds it doesn´t seem right denying a client one. Just make sure the same person can´t buy a third time
      ... which is almost impossible to do since he/she can simply buy with a different nama / payment.

      If you offer refunds you need to do them all.

      I would seriously consider going the no refunds path for new products since you now have a rep and probably don´t need to offer it as a incentive.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I had someone ask for a refund once because they already owned the product. They blamed me for writing good sales copy. Point being, the buyer may not remember buying your product the first time. If they ask for a refund again, then ban them from buying from you again if you have the capability.


    Edit: I just recalled, my customer didn't ask for a refund, he asked for credit toward another product. Almost forgot I kept the money!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Oh...now that you tell more of the story, I can see this guy was trouble from the start. Some customers are more trouble than they are worth (monetarily speaking). Good luck with that one!
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Oh...now that you tell more of the story, I can see this guy was trouble from the start. Some customers are more trouble than they are worth (monetarily speaking). Good luck with that one!
      No kidding!

      I never really wanted this customer from the get-go and was hoping they would forget about me lol.

      Hah! Sorry for the pointless thread everyone. I just felt the need to rant and let off some steam.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        access to the product is cut off
        Why anticipate problems? Maybe he will request a second refund but it hasn't happened yet and perhaps it won't.

        If he asks, I'd refund - and cut him off again. But I would politely (yes, politely) advise him that further refunds would not be possible. Then I'd let it go.

        kay
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    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      For sure, ban him from buying from you again, but give him his refund since it's stated on your sales page. Otherwise, it would be false advertising.

      I'd be tempted to demand that he send you a confirmation that he has deleted the product from his system before refunding him. It might be enough to make him think at least. I know this cannot be proven, but it would give him a bit of a hassle.

      Until I heard the rest of your story, I was thinking: That happened to me once. I bought a product (actually a small software program) but it wasn't as helpful as I expected so I asked for a refund. About a year or so later, I once again was spellbound by the excellent sales letter and bought it again. Seeing the software, I realized it was the same thing I returned last year.

      I'm sure it can happen. But since he did it in such a short space of time shows that he is just trying to scam you.

      Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author khtm
    I think you should just refund his money and forget about him, like others have said.

    Life's too short to stress out about one guy who may or may not be taking advantage of your policy. But in the end you should honor your policy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Tell them there is a 30% restocking fee and that a refund is only applicable if returned unused in the original packaging .
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  • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
    I don't understand why you didn't ban him after the first refund considering the pre-sale occurrences.
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    • Profile picture of the author AffiliateJ
      You have a refund policy. You have to refund him. It's the price of business, like others have said.

      You just paid for a lesson:

      Ban refunders from purchasing from you again. Save your time for the 20% of people who make 80% of your profits.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
        Got a great, easy solution that seems to boost conversions even: stop offering refunds.
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        • Profile picture of the author toolsmith
          I have to agree with everyone, the first time I can understand but if they choose to purchase it again then I would say no. In the years of selling digital products I've issued refunds but not twice for the same product...that's just crazy!

          -Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author T.R. McCarroll
          I understand all points of view but I ran a brick and mortar store and would take salable merchandise back but at a 30% - 50% re-stock charge and I stamped it right on the front of the invoice. They could bitch and moan to their credit card company until I showed the CC company my documentation.

          Point being make the refund a heavy price to pay for returns. Believe me it stopped people cold in their tracks and I had many a serial returner until I started my policy.

          I know some of are saying a digital product is not like taking back a pair of pants...I say the hell it isn't...but banning someone from buying from me forever, I wouldn't do it.

          Just my opinion

          Thom
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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
            Banned
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author Jaz
              I'd give them a refund, then I'd fire them. No point in having someone on the internet that would be mad at you and might get more people mad, but you don't have to give them the opportunity again.
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              • Profile picture of the author A Bary
                I don't know why you're worried about this..

                He didn't ask for a refund, and if he asks for one, just pick the phone and call PayPal customer service, inform them about the situation and I don't expect they will support fraud, if they do request you to refund, then you at least red flagged this person and his activity will be monitored..

                And you have to use some advanced script like DLG and the likes, you'll be easily able to block such crocks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    I have the exact opposite problem of you Daniel. A customer keeps ordering the same product every few months and never asks for a refund.

    Terry
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
      Originally Posted by Terry Hatfield View Post

      I have the exact opposite problem of you Daniel. A customer keeps ordering the same product every few months and never asks for a refund.

      Terry
      Please post his name and e-mail here. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
      yeah I had someone who joined my membership twice was running both payments for about 6 months before I realised.

      He was really chuffed when I refunded the extra membership (which by this time had run into a couple of hundred dollars), then blow me if he didn't go and join up again a few months later lol

      Kim

      Originally Posted by Terry Hatfield View Post

      I have the exact opposite problem of you Daniel. A customer keeps ordering the same product every few months and never asks for a refund.

      Terry
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  • Profile picture of the author neodarth
    If you put in your sales letter a refund guaranty then, Just refund, no questions ask, don't mind about the get 'n go.

    As long as your product is properly branded doesn't matter if one in a million try to take advantage of your good will.

    You have 999.999 other customers to take care.

    A get 'n go fellow maybe in the future could become a fine and loyal customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoobie
    I do agree with refund and ban approach..it seems like more logical and the "customers" will not have hard feelings regardless of their intentions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alton
    Is this person really worth all this grief? You have a refund policy in place and you have to honor this refund regardless of this persons intentions. Don't let some idiot label you as not trustworthy and end up possibly damageing your reputation. Refund his money and carry on with business and avoid any confrontation by revamping your refund policy to prevent people like this from playing these games!!
    Just my opinion... you did ask for it

    Alton
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  • Profile picture of the author permaguru
    Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

    They then put in a second refund request for the same product.

    Would you give it to them?
    IMHO, it's not worth having them bad mouth you publicly for a few dollars. It sucks, but you really should refund them and then blacklist them. Problem solved. Think of it as a fee you need to pay to get rid of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
    Refunds are a part of any business. I'd give the refund and wouldn't lose a minute's sleep over it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
    Dude- don't even WAIT for the request...

    Show this ignorant, dripping goat's ***** that you won't put up with this kind of nonsense. Refund him yourself, and ban him.

    You ARE allowed to "Fire" your customers, you know...:p

    Peace,

    Gman

    PS - For more on the "Goat" alliteration, see "The Talisman" by Stephen King/Peter Straub
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

    Yes, I do offer a 30 day refund period
    There is your answer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    Sorry Glenn . . .

    That dude is my retirement plan. Ha! Ha!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alton Hargrave
    I gave a guy 3 refunds for the same product in one day. For a while there, he would pay and I would pay him back, then it he would pay again. I guess he had his finger on fully automatic. Anyhow, after 3 times, I told him the next one I would keep. He wasn't trying to cause trouble, he just wasn't sure of how to use the pay button on Paypal.

    But, for trouble makers, I ban them with my DLGuard setup. For all my software I sell on Ebay, I have to send out a cd. I offer refunds, but I tell them to return the cd first. Sending back a cd is a lot of effort for some people, so many never send them back...or get the refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doiron
    I think you're stuck as unfair as it seems. You do offer the refund, after all, and Judge Judy would hold your feet to the fire.

    I would ask why he's doing this little dance, though. And I would do everything I could to deny further purchases by him.

    As some earlier posters have confessed, I have also bought products more than once in error. Three times, in fact. I kept two of them because they were relatively small and it was my stupid mistake. I returned one because it was someone with resell rights who named the product differently. I'm still not sure if they were allowed to do that. I don't think it was PLR so perhaps not, but who knows?
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    • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
      LET. IT. GO.

      Do you know what really successful marketers like Frank Kern do? They have someone else handle their refunds because they know it serves them no purpose to focus on them. They don't even want to hear about them unless there's an important reason to hear about it.

      Sure, you might not be big enough to have an assistant, or a staff, but you get the point.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Hi Daniel,

    If he's entitled to the refund, then I suppose you're obligated to give it. But
    you may want to consider beating his ass.

    Just sayin'...
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Daniel,

    In business our name/reputation is what drives our sales. this fellow may ask for a refund but has not yet. if in fact he does here is what you do. you give him the refund that is what you said that is what you do.. then you change your policy to a no refund policy and you move on.

    will it hurt sales on the contrary as I have learned from some of the best online they do not offer yet seem to excel in their sales after changing to a no refund policy. I offer a refund on some sites I run and no on others right now I am testing and so far sales are pretty good with the no and not so good with.

    Remember this is business your name is more important then a few bucks no biggie he messes himself out of any other fantastic product you may bring out in the future. seo bazooka kicks @ss so if that is any indication he is the one missing out ban his ip address and move on.
    cheers
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author yommys01
    Personally I don't think I would want to refund him. If he actually wants a refund then he should contact paypal or whoever.

    All you need to do when he has contacted paypal or clickbank ( whichever ) is to show them prove that he has asked for a refund for the same product before and then decided to buy again only to ask for a refund.

    I am having the same issue with a guy who thinks he is smart but does not know there are people smarted than him.

    Don't refund him, make life difficult for him. Refunding him will only make him feel he is smart.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickolie0990
    I wouldn't understand why anybody would do that. In addition, I don't understand why people offer a discount on an affiliate promotion. You could then just buy the product, get the discount from the affiliate then, ask for the refund and end up making money on the deal, and the kicker is, is the product is a downloadable thing, then the chances of them deleted the product is slim to none. But, anyway, I dont understant why anybody would offer two refunds for the same purchase.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    First of all Pay pal will not push a refund on a digital product .

    I know people that sell everything through digital download for that fact . They may be selling a physical product but they force the customer to get the order information through pdf .

    It appears to pay pal that the customer bought an ebook.

    Now saying all of that . Daniel you are a promising young future IM star if you stay on the right track . Do you want something as petty as pushing a button to refund tarnishing your reputation?

    In the world of Blogs , forums and twitter , whether founded or not , your reputation can be destroyed in 500 words or less .
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
      Yeah you guys are totally right. I knew kind of knew I was going to have to do it anyway(just waiting for the refund request to come in any minute now hahaha). Im totally adding something in the terms of service to cover that for now on though.

      Good stuff.

      Thanks everyone. It was cool to see other perspectives on such an....annoying aspect the business.
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    • Profile picture of the author ezimedia
      HI

      I would give... it but not a 3nd time...

      Maybe they did know they brought your product before...

      be careful

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author NetInvestor
    Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

    Hello Warriors,

    I was wondering your thoughts on this, as I have a feeling it's about to happen.

    You have a customer order a product.

    The customer asks for a refund - you give it to them.(access to the product is cut off)

    The customer goes on their way, but decides to come back a couple months later to buy the same course from you again.

    They then put in a second refund request for the same product.

    Would you give it to them?

    I don't really care about the money, it's mostly the principle of the matter. They already tried it once and were refunded. They know what they are getting into the second time, yet they bought it again.

    Yes, I do offer a 30 day refund period. However, I feel like it should only apply to their first transaction since 30 days has long since past between the first transaction and the 2nd one.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Dan

    HeyDaniel. No i wont. Just because the refund period is over from the first time he bought it. Simple and easy... NO
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    • Profile picture of the author Blase
      This may have been said above I didn't
      read all of the posts.

      Isn't it possible that the buyer forgot
      that he bought it the first time.

      I've bought a product more than once.

      Last week I did three refunds for people
      that had already purchased before.
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    • Profile picture of the author keyaziz
      Refund...I try not to get caught up in the drama that comes sometimes with refund requests...I usually just refund and don't allow myself to process their reasons because I know it will make me mad! Hence why I try to avoid playing customer service as much as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author SunnySahu
    As bad as it feels, I'd do it. They are not worth the time and hassle anyways.

    Just refund, ban him from buying anything else from you and move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Daniel,

    Why not take a complete different tactic with the guy. Before he can send you an email asking for a refund, email him and ask how he is getting along with the product this time. If he replies anything but with a positive answer, send him a second email informing him you are going ahead and giving him his refund immediately.

    Then thank him for giving you a second try.

    Be proactive, and put him behind you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Erica Leggette
      Originally Posted by KansasDragon View Post

      Daniel,

      Why not take a complete different tactic with the guy. Before he can send you an email asking for a refund, email him and ask how he is getting along with the product this time. If he replies anything but with a positive answer, send him a second email informing him you are going ahead and giving him his refund immediately.

      Then thank him for giving you a second try.

      Be proactive, and put him behind you.

      This is a very positive approach.
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      Be easy.


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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    It's a pity that they don't give you a way to reinstate an old charge. If such a thing could happen, I would just reinstate the old charge and say SORRY, NO REFUNDS! After all, assuming he got it, remembers he did, etc... He bought it AGAIN because he needed and needs it.

    But I have to ask WHY he wants a refund. I once did a chargeback because a company denied me access to the purchased product. If it was a monopoly, and I didn't have my pride, I would want to try AGAIN! I gave them 1 or 2 weeks to allow me access before I did the chargeback, in fact. IF it failed that time, I would AGAIN be entitled to a chargeback for the SAME reason. So SOMETIMES....

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sligon00
    Put into your WSO , no second refund requests , period , end of story.

    That should fix it.

    And for that person, no refund, they are dodo birds. LOL

    BayAreaSteve
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  • Profile picture of the author greff
    Yes, just give the person the refund.

    It's just good business and really doesn't cost you much. Besides, your offer says you will give the refund. No mention of qualifications to get it?
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't give customers the option of refunding from me twice. I use DLGuard and when I get a refund, I ban the customer from purchasing from me again. I don't have any serial refunders and not interested in "converting" these a**holes to customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    A refund perhaps less processing costs which might wipe out the refund. That's crazy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Spinethetic
    Just give it to them.

    This is business as usual in my eyes.

    Would it be right if I went to Wal-Mart, bought an Ipod then returned it only to come back at a later date and purchase it again just to return it later in the day?

    Sure the manager may think something shady is going on, but what can he do?

    Ban me from Wal-Mart?

    One could argue against my idea simply because we may be dealing with DIGITAL products than can easily be replicated for free, and I wholeheartedly agree that certain precautions should me made in this line of products.

    But to me this scenario is business as usual, I tend not to be paranoid of such things, instead I focus on building good customer/subscribe relationships and bonds, thus my refund rate is very low because of this.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Hey Daniel, you're obviously a good man. About 3-4 months ago I had a woman order three different CB products of mine over a one week period. Then, all on the same day I got refund requests for every one of those purchases. I know she scammed me, but know what--I'm better off working on marketing, product development, or cooking a rib eye on the grill outside than losing sleep over some moron's quest to get products for free.

    You're a better person than your customer. Sometimes you just have to put on your hip-waders and trek through the BS (as annoying as it may be). You have many more important things to do with your life guy. The world is waiting patiently for your next big idea--spend your time giving it to them and let the maggots feast on their own excreta out there.

    My very best for your continued success!!! --Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      If they requested a refund for the second time on the same product without an explanation right away of: "oops! Sorry, I just ordered your product again forgetting that I had bought it before" I would promptly tell them to kiss my ass.

      If it was through paypal - Tell them to open a dispute, making sure to let paypal know all the details...

      If the person has a history of doing what you are describing, they will get their paypal account closed.

      I personally don't care what someone trying to scam me thinks about me. I don't want to do business with them, and seriously doubt that they are going to get any sympathy from people that they tell of the "transaction"

      "hey, I bought this guys product and refunded it - he disabled it, but I decided i needed it again, so I bought it again, now he won't refund me again"

      ahhhhhh....ok
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      • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        If they requested a refund for the second time on the same product without an explanation right away of: "oops! Sorry, I just ordered your product again forgetting that I had bought it before" I would promptly tell them to kiss my ass.

        If it was through paypal - Tell them to open a dispute, making sure to let paypal know all the details...

        If the person has a history of doing what you are describing, they will get their paypal account closed.

        I personally don't care what someone trying to scam me thinks about me. I don't want to do business with them, and seriously doubt that they are going to get any sympathy from people that they tell of the "transaction"

        "hey, I bought this guys product and refunded it - he disabled it, but I decided i needed it again, so I bought it again, now he won't refund me again"

        ahhhhhh....ok
        Normally I agree with you Jeremy but I am not sure in this case this is what should happen it is the sales page gurantee if it is done through paypal according to their own position then the refund will not happen but it is not a matter of the one customer it is a matter of doing what you say know what I mean? because it is said it needs to be upheld.
        -WD
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

          Normally I agree with you Jeremy but I am not sure in this case this is what should happen it is the sales page gurantee if it is done through paypal according to their own position then the refund will not happen but it is not a matter of the one customer it is a matter of doing what you say know what I mean? because it is said it needs to be upheld.
          -WD
          Because you offer a guarantee doesn't give people the right to basically fraud you at will.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
            Just to make something clear...

            I don't offer "guarantees" on any of my sales letters - Yet, if it is a digital product and someone emails me and says they bought my product twice by mistake, or some other logical request...we will refund them.

            But, someone sends me an email that says "thanks for letting me look, send me a refund" - gets ignored. Same with a simple "refund" followed by a transaction number.

            On the same note, we have had to fight tooth and nail with folks on pages that have a great big NO REFUNDS stamped on it in 5 different places and right above the buy now button.

            I personally use logic in every decision I make....at least I try to.

            In this case, logic says that the person if they request a refund for the 2nd time is a scammer and a crook.

            I don't refund scammers and crooks - nor do I give 2 rat turds what they think of me, my products, or my business. If anything they will spread the word to the other people like then that are in their "circle" not to by for me. I consider that a win.
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            • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

              Just to make something clear...

              I don't offer "guarantees" on any of my sales letters - Yet, if it is a digital product and someone emails me and says they bought my product twice by mistake, or some other logical request...we will refund them.

              But, someone sends me an email that says "thanks for letting me look, send me a refund" - gets ignored. Same with a simple "refund" followed by a transaction number.

              On the same note, we have had to fight tooth and nail with folks on pages that have a great big NO REFUNDS stamped on it in 5 different places and right above the buy now button.

              I personally use logic in every decision I make....at least I try to.

              In this case, logic says that the person if they request a refund for the 2nd time is a scammer and a crook.

              I don't refund scammers and crooks - nor do I give 2 rat turds what they think of me, my products, or my business. If anything they will spread the word to the other people like then that are in their "circle" not to by for me. I consider that a win.
              I agree he is scamming Jeremy I think more to the point though is not the customer but the person offering the gurantee if refund is implied you shouldn't deny. That being said I would not deal with them a second time as soon as I saw they bought and refunded-ip ban. simple I am just a real stickler for doing what is said I personally don't think refunds should happen at all it is not like a B&M where the product can be returned they get the product and the cash back? no come to think of it I am going to switch everything to no refund now
              -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author mjaydee
    I had a customer buy from me twice. When I asked them why they said they got a new computer and needed the ebook again.

    It happens!

    - Michael.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonboom
    All I have to say, you must have one heck of a sales page.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kat Bartone
      Hey Dan,

      JasonDinner has it right - it's not worth the time and energy.

      If you didn't previously clarify the terms of refunds, then for the sake of your business and your integrity, you have to give the refund. And that's worth more than the few bucks and hassle of an unscrupulous customer, isn't it?

      Give the refund, modify the terms going forward, let this thread die, and move on.

      You can't close this thread yourself, but you can just announce your last post here with a brief thank you to the warriors who've posted here.

      As long as it's kept alive, it's going to stay in your head. Lesson learned, time to move on.

      Best to you moving forward,

      Kat
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  • Profile picture of the author azland55
    If it is a download and does not cost you anything just give him the money and stop worrying about it.

    That is why you are in a lot better position than he is. Smile and carry on.
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  • Profile picture of the author HydroJohn
    I woudl think twice before doing this! How valuble is there custom?
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  • Profile picture of the author Player777
    Why would you ask for a second refund. This guy is taking you for a ride
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  • Profile picture of the author knowwow
    How exactly can you ban someone from purchasing your product?

    Ban by email? (can create another)
    Ban by paypal email? (same as above)
    Ban by IP (can switch IP)

    I mean what is the technical means to make this happen?
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Daniel,

    How much are we talking about here?

    Is it as little as $15 as perhaps mentioned by the guy?

    Business is all about dealing with assholes firmly, but politely and getting them off your business lines, so that you can concentrate on the good guys.

    Anything less than $100 and I wouldn't even waste more than the 20 seconds it takes to refund the transaction.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    P.S. - For anyone who thinks they can have a policy of NO REFUNDS, then think again.

    Check your local laws.

    I know people who have been sued for tens of thousands of dollars all because they didn't abide by consumer laws regarding some piddley little transaction.

    Get off your high horses and get in the real world. Otherwise, the ABC government agencies will force you to see the light.

    Don't take it personally. It is a cost of doing business.

    Sam
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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
      Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

      P.S. - For anyone who thinks they can have a policy of NO REFUNDS, then think again.

      Check your local laws.

      I know people who have been sued for tens of thousands of dollars all because they didn't abide by consumer laws regarding some piddley little transaction.

      Get off your high horses and get in the real world. Otherwise, the ABC government agencies will force you to see the light.

      Don't take it personally. It is a cost of doing business.

      Sam
      Sam this is not true at all. if it were paypal would immediately refund every person who asked for it within a certain time frame. instead they themselves have a specific terms of service in dealing with digital products. I have switched my policy now to no refunds at all period
      Though I am not a lawyer as I understand it the refund policy is a 30 day refund policy required even on used items physical products NOT on digital items so with all due respect get off your own horse and study up man!
      -WD
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        Sam this is not true at all. if it were paypal would immediately refund every person who asked for it within a certain time frame. instead they themselves have a specific terms of service in dealing with digital products. I have switched my policy now to no refunds at all period
        Though I am not a lawyer as I understand it the refund policy is a 30 day refund policy required even on used items physical products NOT on digital items so with all due respect get off your own horse and study up man!
        -WD


        Whatever you say Mr Right. You obviously know everything, even though you say you are not a lawyer!

        I must be wrong about the people I know who had to pay up big time, who are based in the US. Funny that as one of them is a very good friend of mine and I was present at one of the hearings as a charachter witness.

        (Also, I wasn't just talking about the US either.)

        I think it is you who may need to study up a little more, depending on what state you live in. Perhaps not.

        Take it or leave it, but it is true.

        Sam
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        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
          Originally Posted by TelegramSam View Post

          Whatever you say Mr Right. You obviously know everything, even though you say you are not a lawyer!

          I must be wrong about the people I know who had to pay up big time, who are based in the US. Funny that as one of them is a very good friend of mine and I was present at one of the hearings as a charachter witness.

          (Also, I wasn't just talking about the US either.)

          I think it is you who may need to study up a little more, depending on what state you live in. Perhaps not.

          Take it or leave it, but it is true.

          Sam
          Whatever you say Mr Right? LOL your a funny guy . anyhow there must be more to it then the guarantee Sam as I said paypal has it in their terms of service and hmm There are a TON of folks who do not offer guarantees. aside from the fact I am not in a state. Canada has no such things. but there is a law pertaining to a 30 day guarantee which is for any physical goods whether new or used minimum 30 days.
          btw it is character not charachter
          -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author Music City Copy
    Almost every time someone asks ofr a refund you can pretty safely be sure they are a d-bag.

    But, I always just send the refund anyway, for the following 2 reasons:

    1. It get's them out of your hair!

    2. If you try to reason with a d-bag, they will likely turn crazy on you and do something really weird and possibly harmful to your business.

    So I say... "Go away! Here's your refund!"

    It sucks this person did it twice. But still, send them their refund and tell them they are no longer welcome as a customer. Then you get to move on down the road and focus on what matters!

    Good luck to you. I know the feeling. Sorry you have to go through this.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    This is one of those peas under the mattress that you have deal with when you enter into this business. Refund and move on. Don't lose a lot of sleep over it. I am sure that we are not talking big money here, so why worry.
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  • Profile picture of the author shermancox
    I think the right answer is to refund and block as many have said. My question is how do you block? Are you gonna block his IP Address? Or only block his email address? Or maybe block his name. I have blocked a few purchasers email address who I knew to be problem folks, but I realize how easy it is to get another email address and get back in to start the whole cycle again...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    I'm relatively new to Warriors but not to running a business (I've been doing that in one form or the other for over a decade) . The fact that you have a 30 day refund policy does NOT automatically mean that everyone gets a refund. There are a whole lot of things that can void a return policy particularly if fraud is involved. I'd need to see your return policy.

    However at first I thought he had already asked for a refund not that he was going to and it seems like you are having some dialogue about the product.

    It IS possible that this person isn't really trying to scam you. In my time I have met some pretty schizophrenic customers. He may have tried it the first time then later thought that maybe there was something to it and now he's back but too daft to get it or its value yet again.

    People think in the most craziest of ways even when thinking they are being honest.

    I can't agree with the refund immediately even when its obvious scamming (and it has to be VERY obvious not just strongly suspected). I may honor the request but not without making them wait or jump through a few hoops. Automatic refunds for scammers is like immediate gratification and only encourages them to do it more. In reality you can't really ban a scammer. You can force him to use someone else accounts or names but you really can't block them entirely from buying. The only thing that stops a scammer from continuing to scam is legal action (terribly unlikely), not getting back his money or just finding it too much a pain in the neck to get it back.
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    • Profile picture of the author DanPE
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      I'm relatively new to Warriors but not to running a business (I've been doing that in one form or the other for over a decade) . The fact that you have a 30 day refund policy does NOT automatically mean that everyone gets a refund. There are a whole lot of things that can void a return policy particularly if fraud is involved. I'd need to see your return policy.

      However at first I thought he had already asked for a refund not that he was going to and it seems like you are having some dialogue about the product.

      It IS possible that this person isn't really trying to scam you. In my time I have met some pretty schizophrenic customers. He may have tried it the first time then later thought that maybe there was something to it and now he's back but too daft to get it or its value yet again.

      People think in the most craziest of ways even when thinking they are being honest.

      I can't agree with the refund immediately even when its obvious scamming (and it has to be VERY obvious not just strongly suspected). I may honor the request but not without making them wait or jump through a few hoops. Automatic refunds for scammers is like immediate gratification and only encourages them to do it more. In reality you can't really ban a scammer. You can force him to use someone else accounts or names but you really can't block them entirely from buying. th eonly thing that stops a scammer from continuing to sacam is legal action (terribly unlikely), not getting back his money or just finding it too much a pain in the neck to get it back.

      Yes I mean, if you sell, say, burgers, and you have a "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" offer, you're not obliged to refund someone who said it didn't taste good, but ate most of it
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      • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        Whatever you say Mr Right? LOL your a funny guy . anyhow there must be more to it then the guarantee Sam as I said paypal has it in their terms of service and hmm There are a TON of folks who do not offer guarantees. aside from the fact I am not in a state. Canada has no such things. but there is a law pertaining to a 30 day guarantee which is for any physical goods whether new or used minimum 30 days.
        btw it is character not charachter
        -WD

        Are you in a position to correct someone else's spelling, when your grammar and punctuation is rather less than optimum?
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