And during a DEPRESSION! Did you hear? The government is highering, and the average pay is about $7000 higher than the national average!

So when I was paying like $7000 income tax, it wasn't to cover costs, etc... It was basically so I could pay for some ELSES better lifestyle! And I was making less than they were!

Yeah, they are comming up with ALL SORTS of STUPID ideas! There has EVEN been talk of a "VAT TAX"!

Stephen

Wow. I did not realize it was spreading ... scary. You would think the Govt. would want to build not destroy business!

Not Hawaii, the bill was vetoed. Still lost about 3 weeks of commissions while they decided. For a while there I was looking at incorporating in another state.

Hi Garret,

I am also a Colorado resident, in Fort Collins too, and received the same message. Luckily my Amazon commissions are very low, so it doesn't hurt me much. I'm just concerned about how this law is going to affect other affiliate networks.

We need to work to get the idiots in the state legislature voted out ASAP. My representative told me it was passed along party lines, you can probably guess which party passed it.

It amazes me that government wants to hurt the people they serve and collect taxes from.

Mike

Every affiliate marketer should be following these laws and planning a contingent strategy, such as a mail forwarding service.

An interesting problem will be if California votes in a Democratic governor who would sign such legislation. A past proposed bill in California would have affected not only California-based affiliates, but also the affiliate networks (Commission Junction, Google Affiliate Network, etc.). Then, it may not matter if you have a Nevada address - anyone doing business through the affiliate network triggers the tax collection.

.

I am in awe of the timing on this...

I put an Amazon widget on a client's site late last night and I have a Skype call with her coming in in 20 minutes...

Three guesses on where she lives.... (The first two don't count)

Yeesh!


Tink

Our Governor can't even ride a bicycle without almost killing himself. We Coloradans will be waiting for a new State administration after Ritters' run on taxation, to appeal this and his new tax on soda and candy-bars......

I'm in CO, so I'm affected by this. Fun!

My guess is that Amazon is banking on enough outrage to sway the wording in the final bill. When that happens (and I believe -- or at least hope -- it will) Amazon will welcome their affiliates back. Meantime, I'm off to find an alternative affiiliate program for books (any suggestions?)

For how long ...?

Upper left corner, a little black button says "New Thread."

Waah, I got my pink slip from Amazon today too.

If Amazon is laying off affiliates in each state as they come aboard the taxation boat, and they have fewer and fewer affiliates, won't that affect their bottom line at all?

Grrr... I'm off to remove my Amazon affiliate links. What should I replace them with?

I know!

It's a grab for money but it's promoted as leveling the playing field for brick and mortar businesses. The tax has to be passed on to the customers -
would you buy from an affiliate link where tax was added when you could go to another link where it wasn't? Don't think so.

Amazon pricing is low and their commissions are too low for affiliates to pay the sales tax themselves. The state "heads" can bluster all they want but they just put people out of work in their state trying to get more taxes. Won't work out as they hoped.

Affiliates in other states will pick up more sales - and non-US affiliates will move into markets, too. I doubt it will hurt Amazon at all. It will hurt a lot of affiliates who rely on the income and that's sad.

The idea that offline businesses must be protected from nasty online sellers is ridiculous to me. You can't force people to pay the higher prices in an offline store when they can buy cheaper online. Amazon knows that even if state legislators don't.

kay

MAN, DUMB IDEA! HERE'S WHY!

1. A check, or M.O. will GREATLY limit sales!

2. A check will limit turn around! I have even seen CASHIERS checks bounced, so don't talk about THAT!

3. There is a FEDERAL law that ALL checks(OR Money orders! Actually, ANY non credit draft that hits the bank system) above $5000, maybe LOWER now, MUST be microfiched! Failure to do so can be met with HARSH penalties! Ever since that law went into place, DECADES ago, banks microfiched ALL checks! It was just EASIER! TODAY, as a service, they often have pictures ONLINE! So there definitely IS a trail! ALSO, NOBODY is STUPID enough to complicate matters by doing EVERYTHING themselves 100% manually, so it goes through the A.C.H., and is replacated using MICR and a couple simple entries. That means MORE records, a central location, and BETTER federal control. It is easier, cheaper, faster, and safer for the banks.

4. Check problems have been exploited by the likes of frank abignale, and even TODAY with the 419 scheme, so your claim that they prevent identity theft is a LIE! Actually, credit card charges are easier to dispute, details are easier to change, and personal details are better hidden. Paypal further isolates this. NO paypal merchant(outside of some paypal pro purchases) knows ANYTHING about where the money came from.

OH YEAH, #5. You are STILL breaking the law,

Steve

If you want to get a realistic view of may happen, look at where credit card companies are "located".

There are several states with weak usury laws that allow very high interest rates - and almost all credit card lenders are incorporated in those few states. Small affiliates won't want the hassle and cost of incorporating but affiliates with substantial business will find ways to keep selling.

"All" states will not follow this Colorado example. A few states will see the advantage of becoming a "haven state" and will benefit from that.

The problem is caused by the gvts we elect - who traditionally seek more and more income rather than cutting costs to meet the income level they have. We understand basic budgeting - we need to stop giving power to those who don't.

kay

SO WHAT!?!? Start firing useless workers, pay them regular fees/benefits, and CUT BACK! Everyone ELSE has to!

BULL! They are enacted out of GREED!

This is NOT about that. Affiliates have to pay income tax! This is about SALES TAX! The affiliate can NOT pay that! You sell an item for $100, the affiliate gets maybe $3, and THEY, in california, have to somehow find the sale is to southgate, and pay the $10.75 in sales tax!?!?!?!? You REALLY believe that? What kind of business ARE you in?

Man, you just DON'T GET IT! BTW, with the new law, and affiliates in the state, ALL colorado people have to pay sales tax! With NO affiliates, NO colorado people have to pay sales tax.

You have 50 employees, does that mean one location? If so, you are subject to ONE tax, unless it is within a state like california, and you ship to other places in the state with a different tax rate, unless the items are not taxable! I doubt you have ANY idea!

Steve

Legislators are backed into corners because they painted themselves there. Money comes in, they spend it. They don't save anything for a rainy day. They can't let money remain unspent. They don't think to put anything aside. It comes in; it goes out. They even spend money they don't even have yet, based on what they think they will collect in revenues. Then, when there are tough times, they don't have any money set aside to cover.

If politicians want a sales tax on Internet sales, it should one rate across the country. That would be fair and relatively easy for sellers to calculate and collect.

However, the "Streamlined Sales Tax Initiative" these pinheads came up with is anything but. They want sales tax calculated based on the destination, which can only be figured on a per address basis. Sales taxes can vary within a zip code, within a state, and, while things are computerized, politicians don't understand the complexity of such a system and the real burden it has on sellers, especially those that are small.

Consider the state of Ohio. We already have destination-based sales tax. So, anytime I get an order from anywhere in the state, I have to calculate and charge the sales tax based upon where it is going. There are 88 counties in the state, each of which may have a different sales tax rate. Plus, within a county, there may be cities and jurisdictions that have their own sales tax rates. So, this all needs to be looked up in order to calculate the sales tax.

And, for our work as tax collectors, we get compensated a whopping 3/4ths of a percent, which has always worked out to be less than the state's minimum wage when I figure how much time it takes me to do all this.

Yet, that is the system they want to spread across the country. You would have to calculate the sales tax rate based upon where it is going. And then you'll have to keep track of all that and report it. Let's say you have an average of 50 sales tax districts per state; that works out to be 2,500 nationwide. And, that's probably a low figure.

So, what would be fair and "streamlined" would be one rate for all. Not a conglomerated mess.

Of course Amazon would prefer to take the easy way out! Who wouldn't?

Most bricks and mortar businesses don't have to calculate and collect sales taxes on over 88 tax districts. Someone comes into your business and makes a purchase, you charge them one sales tax rate. But, when someone comes to my website, I cannot do the same? How am I supposed to hold the burden for collecting sales tax on 88+ taxing districts? How am I supposed to hold the burden for collecting sales tax on 2500+ taxing districts?

Politicians can cry all they want about this "leveling the playing field," but that is not their interest or goal. They are purely interested in the money. Already, the playing field is reasonably level. Someone buys from a B&M, they have to pay for the product plus sales tax. Someone buys from a website, they have to pay for the product plus shipping. It's pretty even already. But, now politicians want it so that if someone buys from a website, they have to pay for the product plus shipping plus sales tax.

So, it's not about fairness. It's about money. It's about the politicians continual inability to live within their means, to maintain a budget, to set aside for a "rainy" day. Sadly, most politicians are completely clueless when it comes from business and have absolutely no conception of what is involved.

Are you serious? :confused:

Aren't we already paying a massive sum in FEDERAL taxes?

Let the damn government figure out how to budget for once. They're sure as hell forcing all of us to.

WRONG, EVEN haircutting and stocking shelves is going to asia! HOW you say? LUDICROUS you say? FIRST of all, more workers in asia, and some warehousing moved there. SECOND, they are moving HERE!

And this has NOTHING to do with the wars! SURE they are expensive, but we are talking about stuff FAR into the future. I WOULD go farther, but....

Steve

ACTUALLY, I agree with you there! MANY B&M stores now call their salespeople and clerks "AFFILIATES". AND, ironically enough, places like amazon make it clear that "affiliates" are NOT affiliated with them. They don't want to have to deal with false advertising from others.

You misunderstood. I meant the GOVERNMENT should. Glad to hear that YOU are doing well BUT, if you weren't, would you REALLY raise prices? Cutting back on luxuries is ****ALWAYS**** the surest way to improve profit margins. Raising prices will often REDUCE sales, and may upset customers. If you double prices, you can actually LOSE MONEY. If you can make the same product for a LITTLE less, it can greatly increase your margin. Say a product costs $5 to make, and you have $1 profit. A reducion in cost of $.50(12.5%) increases your profit 50%! Raising the price by even 10% could mean you lose business, etc... And a 10% increase is only the same dollar amount, but still a lower profit margin.

The government always thinks that raising taxes is the answer. HEY, if they lowered costs to zero, everyone would be happy, etc... BALANCED BUDGET! YEAH!!!!!! Say they charged 99% tax, and felt they needed more money. They raise it to 100%! Would they make more money? NO WAY! Most people would just quit their jobs. Why work for NOTHING! You would think people would realize that! SOME might claim that they can't operate with a 0% income tax, but they DID, for quite a while. They simply followed the constitutional idea of impost/excise taxes. For SOME reason, the US doesn't want to do that, so they actually passed NAFTA AND GATT! AND, of course, there are now lots of other taxes also.

Steve

I don't understand how you can say Affiliate marketing is not a real business. Do you have sales people in your business? If you look at Brick and Mortar businesses, often the sales people are the ones that make the most money. Why? Because without sales there would be no business.

We are the sales people on the internet. Think about it mate..

Jonathan, if that CA is Canada you are probably fine but if it is California I think there is a good chance you'll need some packing boxes sooner or later. OR to create a business in another state, which might be a whole lot easier!

I received this email from State Representaive Paul Wiseman:

----

We worked with the affiliates and Amazon to amend that bill so that there was no longer a nexus between the affiliates and the sales tax. This bill, as amended and passed, now just has a mechanism where current law can possibly be enforced. Sales and Use tax law has always stated that people owe tax on any purchases, whether locally in a traditional brick and mortar store, in a catalog, or online. The only question was if that tax is collected and paid by the retailer or paid by the purchaser.

We specifically changed this bill at the urging of the affiliates, and got hundreds of "thank you" emails from the affiliates when we made this change. I am disappointed with Amazon's decision, especially after we worked with the affiliates to eliminate the nexus. The sponsors of the bill intend to contact Amazon to try to resolve this dispute.

Paul Weissmann
State Representative
-----

bigbyte and others from CO -- take a look at skimlinks.com, it may work for Amazon indirectly, not sure but worth your time to go see. The site looks kinda hip rather than informative, unfortunately.

You have to wonder what is going o happen next, if they ban affiliates in colorado what makes you think that they wont ban affiliates in other states. Smart marketers will be ahead of the wave, then you have google who has banned accounts as well.

Then the FTC coming in like a roaring eagle from hell, which is a good and bad thing ( I hate flogs). While there still is a chance to make money as an affiliate one has to wonder if things will continue to get more and more strict.

I think the best thing is to diversify and have a plan B. Then, you have the cyber security bill that is being passed as we speak which allows the president turn off the internet whenever the heck he wants. I highly recommend everyone go read the bill and type it into google and read. Internet take over is real, and its time to get prepared folks.