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I Suck at Email Marketing, but This is Just Crazy

by sbucciarel Banned
46 replies
Admittedly, I suck at email marketing and only recently started building a list. I don't like email marketing, but thought I'd give it a go.

My first attempt was laughable. I used Bravenet free autoresponder and the very first email I sent had a link to a catch cheating spouse site I had a long time ago in it. Don't know how or why that happened, but it did and I had to send another message to try to explain that. Most of my customers just laughed.

So I switched to iContact for my autoresponder/email service. My list is built purely from a web form and it's only purpose is to send my customers and prospects notification that I have released a new website for sale. They have all double opted-in to receive these notifications and I may send out two messages per month, or occasionally three. I do not send affiliate offers to my list. As I said, it's just for notification to my customers about my own product ... blogs for sale.

Yesterday I released a new blog and went to iContact and typed out my message. I had some great news to tell them about the autoblogged plugin I deliver with the sites and some news about extending my sale (from my previous email) and news about a new site I just released. That's it. All good news to my customers. I saved the message and clicked send.

A couple of minutes later, I get a message saying iContact has rejected my email. I go to iContact and see that they have disabled sending until I contact the "deliverability" department by phone. They have an after hours chat thing so I initiate a chat and give this guy my support number. He looks it up and says the email I sent seems unsolicited. Seems unsolicited? These people have double opted in to receive my messages. How can that be unsolicited, I ask? He then says the email seems "Introductory". I said WTF does that mean ... seems introductory. I have no clue what he was talking about.

So today I contact iContact to cancel the account. You can only cancel by calling. He says, I see you have a deliverability issue. I say ... the only deliverability issue I have is that you failed to deliver my message. He wants to transfer me to the "deliverability" people. I say no ... just cancel the account, please. Finally he does.

Anyone else get their emails rejected by their autoresponder company, or is it just me?

So I saw this thread.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...r-service.html

and saw this post with this WSO for an autoresponder service

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ve-common.html

Signed up to it and currently waiting for them to import my list for me so I can send the message that iContact refused to send.

I am clueless on this. How on earth can iContact say my message is unsolicited when it is from a double opted in list?
#crazy #email #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    That's as bad as Mailchimp not allowing MMO emails. Stoopid.
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  • Profile picture of the author SuiteJ
    That sucks, and is very odd.

    Why are you avoiding Aweber like the plague? lol
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SuiteJ View Post

      That sucks, and is very odd.

      Why are you avoiding Aweber like the plague? lol
      lol .. Hi Jay. Yeah ... I just paid $100 for the whole year with this new company. My list is small right now and I don't email very often compared to others, so I'd rather not spend Aweber sort of fees for so little.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    That's just silly. They are acting crazy. They probably are clueless about the types of things that you sell and don't understand your messages. They sound like a bunch of Bozo's.

    I sell the same type of stuff you do and never have a problem with my messages. I use getresponse. My customers love to get emails from me as I am sure yours will too!

    He says, I see you have a deliverability issue. I say ... the only deliverability issue I have is that you failed to deliver my message.
    LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I looked at iContact at one time and decided not to use them. Something about it just didn't sit right with me, even though I couldn't put my finger on it. Sounds like my instincts were on target.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    You have got to admit, that is fairly funny...maybe a follow up email you can have your readers laughing about it and try to get affiliate commissions for something related?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    Ahh Mailchimp once shut me down during a live seminar! Very embarassing. I will never use or endorse them again. Complete and utter rubbish.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I opened an account with icontact last year, maybe. Anyway, I hated
    the interface and all that, but I trudged-on. Created all my stuff and
    sent myself a test email. I opted-in to my a/r series.

    I'm still waiting for that test email to arrive.

    According to icontact, the test email was sent. That was the next
    day, still last year, or so.

    I've never returned to icontact.

    Your experiences do make sense and can be explained. Their system
    has bugs in it. Kreepy krawlers. I noticed it when I was creating my
    account. It wouldn't always work right, or I would do something and
    it would do something else. Sometimes I had to perform the same
    task several times before their system would 'take.'

    It is quirky and unstable in my opinion.

    But the guy can't, and won't, tell you that. Their system encountered
    brain flatulence, and your troubles are the result.

    Nothing you can do except leave them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    lol..Welcome to the hell known as iContact.

    I've been there and wrote about my experience here:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post176676
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  • Profile picture of the author Christophe Young
    That's strange. I've been using Icontact for a few years now and have never had any problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author marcdonovan
    I'm on the other side of that desk and so far I have not allowed anyone to import a list without going through opt-in. So far this totally prevents this kind of issue. I am still on the fence if I should allow it or not.

    You see some really weird stuff out there. One guy entered a Nigerian letter into the system. I was like WTF? Who would sign up to that list? Answer, nobody. But if I allowed him to upload email addys in bulk without verifying opt-in, I would be the source of Nigerian scams. I don't have the time to police that.
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  • Profile picture of the author bgucor
    Welcome to the club man. I also wasted my money there.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Seems to me there's an opportunity here for a Warrior or group of Warriors to provide a low-priced, competent and trustworthy service.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcdonovan
      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      Seems to me there's an opportunity here for a Warrior or group of Warriors to provide a low-priced, competent and trustworthy service.
      That's just what I am doing.
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      • Profile picture of the author DPM70
        Originally Posted by marcdonovan View Post

        That's just what I am doing.
        Ahhh...good stuff Marc - just signed up to check it out.
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        • Profile picture of the author marcdonovan
          Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

          Ahhh...good stuff Marc - just signed up to check it out.
          Hey welcome! Let me know if you would like to see any changes.
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          • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
            This is why I always tell people to SPREAD YOUR RISK when building e-mail lists.

            Don't put all your eggs in one basket, sign up to multiple e-mail services.

            Sign up to 3, 4, 5 e-mail services and if one goes wrong you still are fine.

            If you have a 10,000 list spread across 5 different e-mail services equally in groups of 2,000, if one goes wrong you still are 80% fine.

            It isn't just a case of having an issue with the e-mail service, there are other risks such as services can go bankrupt - here in the UK there were 2 e-mail services which recently went bust.

            So please remember to spread your risk if you plan on building big lists, for most of us our lists are the lifeblood of our businesses.

            P.S. Another tip if you are e-mailing a list you haven't contacted for a while is, always remind them on the first line of the e-mail that they signed up for your list.

            It doesn't just reduce complaints, people are far more likely to take your e-mail seriously and it creates mental engagement when someone has to jog their memory.

            Imagine getting an e-mail from someone you don't remember who says on the first line that you used to go to school together, or work together - you would obviously pay attention and be mentally engaged straight away. Similar psychology.
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
              Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

              This is why I always tell people to SPREAD YOUR RISK when building e-mail lists.

              Don't put all your eggs in one basket, sign up to multiple e-mail services.

              Sign up to 3, 4, 5 e-mail services and if one goes wrong you still are fine.

              If you have a 10,000 list spread across 5 different e-mail services equally in groups of 2,000, if one goes wrong you still are 80% fine.

              It isn't just a case of having an issue with the e-mail service, there are other risks such as services can go bankrupt - here in the UK there were 2 e-mail services which recently went bust.

              So please remember to spread your risk if you plan on building big lists, for most of us our lists are the lifeblood of our businesses.

              P.S. Another tip if you are e-mailing a list you haven't contacted for a while is, always remind them on the first line of the e-mail that they signed up for your list.

              It doesn't just reduce complaints, people are far more likely to take your e-mail seriously and it creates mental engagement when someone has to jog their memory.

              Imagine getting an e-mail from someone you don't remember who says on the first line that you used to go to school together, or work together - you would obviously pay attention and be mentally engaged straight away. Similar psychology.
              Can you not just make a backup of your email list? So if anything does go wrong you just upload your backup?
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              • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
                Skyfox7,

                You can backup your e-mail list (and everyone should regularly), however if something goes wrong and you lose the e-mail service how are you going to e-mail the list?

                You can import a backed up list into some services, however nearly all require everyone to opt in again - which obviously does some horrific damage, especially to a big list.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Coming back on topic, my guess is that your message tripped some kind of automated red flag. Then you got someone on the automated chat who didn't know enough to help you properly.

    I'd have talked to the people running the filter (the deliverability dept.) before I blew up the account. It might have only required a slight change in wording to pass the filter.

    That's one nice thing about running my own script via my reseller account. If someone complains about an email, I can answer them. If they complain to my hosting company, I still answer them.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    good to know so we know whom to avoid in the future!
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  • Profile picture of the author jbode
    After using several autoresponders... I'm finally sticking with Automate Your List, it's just like Aweber only it's a fraction of the price
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  • Profile picture of the author numba8
    at least the guy on the phone let you cancel, that is crazy though
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  • Profile picture of the author thetrafficaddict
    Just stick to AWeber. I've used them for years.

    Very reliable. Easy to use... and Non-techie friendly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Mader
    i also had many problems with autoresponders... my solution was to buy sendstudio

    I have my own site with unlimited autresponders own tracking aso.

    That was my way out of the problems...

    Cheers,

    Patrick
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Patrick Mader View Post

      i also had many problems with autoresponders... my solution was to buy sendstudio

      I have my own site with unlimited autresponders own tracking aso.

      That was my way out of the problems...

      Cheers,

      Patrick
      I'm going to look into this. I am very frustrated right now. I went with Imnicamail because it said I can import my list with no additional opt-in required. I'm canceling this service too because it is not importing my list. It wants signup ips, which aren't in the iContact export.

      All I want is to be able to import a very small list without making them optin once again and mail a few messages without costing an arm and a leg.

      It seems that this is too much to ask. Anyone have any referrals for a company that does this, let me know.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richelo Killian
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I'm going to look into this. I am very frustrated right now. I went with Imnicamail because it said I can import my list with no additional opt-in required. I'm canceling this service too because it is not importing my list. It wants signup ips, which aren't in the iContact export.

        All I want is to be able to import a very small list without making them optin once again and mail a few messages without costing an arm and a leg.

        It seems that this is too much to ask. Anyone have any referrals for a company that does this, let me know.
        We very clearly state that we require opt-in IP addresses for import. As we don't require imported addresses to opt-in again, we HAVE to have an original opt-in IP for IF a SPAM complaint arises.

        You state that you cancelled your service with us, and then requested a refund. Well, actually what you did, was cancel the PayPal subscription, and then opened a dispute case with PayPal, claiming that we did not deliver the service we promised.

        My initial reaction was to dispute it with PayPal, as I know we would have won the dispute. We delivered EXACTLY what was promised, and MORE.

        I did take some time first, you know, sit on your hands and count to 10, and realized that I was actually blessed NOT to keep a customer like yourself.

        I did the refund, and closed the dispute.

        I wish you all the best for the future.
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        InboxJam - Email Deliverability Consulting

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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Richelo Killian View Post

          We very clearly state that we require opt-in IP addresses for import. As we don't require imported addresses to opt-in again, we HAVE to have an original opt-in IP for IF a SPAM complaint arises.
          You don't very clearly state that on your WSO

          # No need for your subscribers to re-confirm when you move them to our service. (There are some limitations, but, not many. Check the FAQ on our site for the details.)

          That one sentence is why I signed up. Then when I logged in, I discovered there was no "list import" function anywhere to be found as there is in most of the services. Only after I clicked on the help button did I discover that you had to send the file to support for them to import. Still nothing said about ip addresses.

          Then from the support page, I read the list will be imported within 24 hrs after I send it. 24 hrs are nearly gone and no word from support. I leave another message in support stating that I needed to get my list imported and get this "power blackout" for last two days excuse (at least try to be original when you're thinking of excuses why you don't deliver what you say you're going to deliver - that power blackout thing is as old as the hills). Then, and only then, am I informed about the ip address thing.

          Originally Posted by Richelo Killian View Post

          You state that you cancelled your service with us, and then requested a refund. Well, actually what you did, was cancel the PayPal subscription, and then opened a dispute case with PayPal, claiming that we did not deliver the service we promised.

          My initial reaction was to dispute it with PayPal, as I know we would have won the dispute. We delivered EXACTLY what was promised, and MORE.

          I did take some time first, you know, sit on your hands and count to 10, and realized that I was actually blessed NOT to keep a customer like yourself.

          I did the refund, and closed the dispute.

          I wish you all the best for the future.
          Yes, I requested a refund saying that without my list, the service would be of no use to me. I requested a refund twice via email.

          The next thing I get is someone emaling me a login to a forum. Again, I emailed back and said I don't want to join the forum, I want a refund.

          So that's when I opened the Paypal dispute and used one of their "excuses" - service not as described. It's not like they have a full range of excuses to choose from, but the service for me, was not as described.

          Seriously glad you chimed in to this thread. I was being kind when describing your service before this but you have shown your true colors here and now I realize that I AM the one who is blessed that it is over, that I received my money back, and that I'm not stuck with your service.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jude.A
      I feel your pain, but as far as i'm concerned there are only two autoresponder services in IM: Aweber and GetResponse. The rest are just...
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    By Jove ... I think I got it. :_

    Signed up for EmailAces and ... it's not for me.

    Signed up for AutomateYourList Autoresponder & Newsletters: Unlimited Follow Up Autoresponders Increase Email Deliverability. and BINGO ... Great service, great interface, great price. This is Aweber but at a reseller price, so it's not as expensive as Aweber from the Aweber site.

    Interface is great and it integrates with DLGuard. And here's one of the best things ...
    All of the email confirmations for EmailAces went to my spam folder. The confirmation notice for automateyourlist.com came into my inbox. That's great ... I'm happy now.
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  • Profile picture of the author H3x
    I only use Aweber as i have had bad experiences with other Autoresponders, Aweber has never let me down and i make some great money from my various lists.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lagarde
    Another thumbs down on using iContact. Bad experience with them (poor delivery rates).

    Currently using GetResponse with good deliverability (at least the messages make it into all my test email accounts every time I sent a message!).
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun Lee
    I guess iContact just wants you to support other autoresponders (AWeber, GetResponse, etc.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
      Kinda ridiculous IMHO that you won't use Aweber. You say it's because of cost but how much is it costing you using all these crap services that aren't working out for you. How much is it costing you in fees and, more importantly, in time spent tracking down, researching, importing...etc, etc, etc.

      Just get a good one. Pay for it and be done with it man.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    I've tried Aweber, GetResponse, Email Aces. But the one I stick with and highly recommend is our own Richelo Killian's Imnica Mail. Fast support, a new interface coming in April and unlike some others that charge $50-60 for 10K leads, with Imnica it is $15.95. I've tested my mails with the free services like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc and they come through and FAST. So for me Imnica gets the nod big time.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      I've tried Aweber, GetResponse, Email Aces. But the one I stick with and highly recommend is our own Richelo Killian's Imnica Mail. Fast support, a new interface coming in April and unlike some others that charge $50-60 for 10K leads, with Imnica it is $15.95. I've tested my mails with the free services like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc and they come through and FAST. So for me Imnica gets the nod big time.
      I tried them also, but they could or would not import my list as it was exported from iContact, so the service did me no good at all. I wasn't about to start all over with a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author WinsonYeung
    haha that's bad experience indeed.

    I recommend you to move all your leads to aweber indeed.
    I never have any problem using aweber and the delivery went good as well
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Odd that they couldn't import your list. Did you get an answer as to why not?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      Odd that they couldn't import your list. Did you get an answer as to why not?
      Didn't have the signup ip addresses in it, which they require. I just canceled the service immediately after finding that out, so don't know whether or not I would have liked it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
    As those people are double opted in, and its just a small list, could you not use a mailing programme like Massmail from kpg software to mail out to them? Whats the harm in that?

    Just put unsubscribe option at the bottom of each mail with your email address.

    Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Couldn't you get that info from iContact? Surely, they'd have that info available? I was looking at iContact at one point, glad I reconsidered. I'd would give Imnica a try, maybe for another niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      Couldn't you get that info from iContact? Surely, they'd have that info available? I was looking at iContact at one point, glad I reconsidered. I'd would give Imnica a try, maybe for another niche.
      I had pretty much just told iContact to put it where the sun don't shine, deleted my virtual credit card associated with the account and canceled the account. The last thing I would want to do is contact them for support. lol.

      Imnica may be a very good option for someone starting their list. I'm not going to badmouth something I didn't get to try out. I am very happy with AutomateYourList Autoresponder & Newsletters: Unlimited Follow Up Autoresponders Increase Email Deliverability. after two days of stressing out over this ... I feel I finally have the solution that I want to stick with.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    I think this was a case of misunderstanding. You can't expect Richelo to post the entire terms of service on the WSO page, and that section is clearly marked on Imnica's page. Funny that I had the same issue when I did Xbox Live billing support: parents not taking the time to read the TOS. It is clearly stated. But, hey so long as you've got a service you're happy with, that is all that matters. Peace ot all.
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