I can't stand Internet Marketing.

by Hecky
142 replies
Warriors,

I'm just making this post to express what I think, and to tell you my story.

I came here after spending a number of years at the DigitalPoint forum, where I spent hours each day doing design work and making minimal amounts of money. Straight away I decided to join the prestigous 'War Room' section, in the hope of being able to start off something in the Internet Marketing world that seemed so attractive.

After browsing through various threads, I was quickly won over by bold claims of huge earnings for little effort, and embarked upon my first project. I wont go into details, but it didn't work out. $100 of investment plus the $47 war room fee, and nada. No result. The program claimed that poor performers would pull in $2-4 a day, and yet I made nothing. The niche I used was suggested to me by a fellow warrior, and I wrote all the content I needed to exacting specifications. Yet nothing.

A few weeks later I came back with a fresh mind, looking to start again. I repeated what I had done before, but I did some better research this time, and yet I still got no results. Meanwhile there was nothing but success stories back at the thread, and I was left at the back - without a single cent. 51 clicks, 0 conversions.

Now it was time for me to really throw in the towel and say that this wasn't for me. I decided to look at another thread to try out, and again I've had no results. Nothing I do works, I thought I wasn't cut out for this and became jealous of all those who have succeeded. Nothing much has changed since then.

One thing that just strikes me is the greed and dishonesty that Internet Marketing can bring with it. It's all about squeezing as much money out of people as you can - and there's very little honestly or true kindness. For example, most of the threads in the 'War Room' require you to sign up to their email lists and I still recieve half a dozen emails a day from people who decided to 'kindly' give away some information for free. Truth is, they just found a different way to make money.

I recently bought a WSO here that had pages of good reviews and had more of the dazzling claims of fortunes on it. I read a few pages of the book and realized it's pretty much just a few War Room posts strung together into a book. I posted what I thought, and the thread creator and I took it to PM where he confronted me about what I said - apparently his sales had fallen 50% after what I said and he wanted me to post on the thread to get these back up again. Again, it's all just about sales and money. He did offer me a refund, though.

I also bought some software recently that I saw online. I won't go into specifics, but it didn't actually work. I've tried to contact the seller, but I somewhat doubt that he's the real seller anymore - it was probably some sort of affiliate system because he's posted it and run away, having pocketed $40.

My experience at the Warrior Forum has made me rethink my whole perspective on money. As far as I'm now concerned, money just turns people into desperation, and sometimes as far as greed and dishonesty. Either I'm a magnet for failure, or things just aren't as nice and shiny as they seem - and people only make money here by selling eBooks that tell you how to make money.

All around this forum and others like it are people preaching trickery. Whether it be tricking search engines or people, it's just not fair.

I suppose if I want to leave one message to whoever has read this far, it's to remember that there are people behind those sales and profit numbers. There are people that will be putting their hard-earned money into what you sell, and there are people who's lives you are making harder by trying to make a quick buck.

Every time you claim a system to make $x per month, you raise someone's hopes - and exploiting their human nature to respond to that hope when you know it's not possible is just inhumane.

N.B. This isn't a complaint at WarriorForum in particular, and I hope it isn't against the rules to express my opinion. I would be overjoyed to see someone come and make me change my mind on this issue.
#internet #marketing #stand
  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    Self fulfilling prophecy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hecky
    Perhaps reading what I wrote would help you in making a relevant and correct comment
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

    Warriors,

    Every time you claim a system to make per month, you raise someone's hopes - and exploiting their human nature to respond to that hope when you know it's not possible is just inhumane.
    But we know it is possible...

    I have students ranging all the way from....

    Never logged into the training area after paying 2k

    All the way to working full time online now

    Robert
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    • Profile picture of the author Maddi
      I remember a conversation with you in New Castle (in the chinese restaurant] about people not claiming bonuses with your products. bonuses that could potentially save several man hours and actually making the whole product 10x more productive.

      Strange but true.

      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      But we know it is possible...

      I have students ranging all the way from....

      Never logged into the training area after paying 2k

      All the way to working full time online now

      Robert
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    • Profile picture of the author richdirtygirl
      Ok Hecky,

      my 2 cents here (before they delete this thread for whining)...

      Internet Marketing is marketing through the Internet. That said, lets break it down:

      -to market means to sell something
      -internet is the media used to sell that something

      internet marketing is a business. 95% of start-up businesses fail because the owners don't have what it really takes to build a business. What makes you think this will be any different?

      what is needed to success in IM is "can do no matter what" attitude, and the ability to learn from everything that happens to you.

      the main reason for your failure is because you are not learning from your experiences, so you can't go ahead.

      taken the smack part out of the way, you are right in a couple of things...

      IM is considered a "desperate" niche. So you will see many falcons coming in. Someone told me once talking about this: They want the magic bullet and don't want to hear the truth, if I don't take their money someone else's will...

      if you want to learn and build a solid business:

      -stay away from big claims and shiny stuff;

      -pay close attention to what you see and the way you feel when you read or see a vid, and you will be learning copy.

      -choose good quality products to promote, or build your own (and make them good quality), and don't become a falcon yourself

      -be ready to take everything that cross your way as a natural disaster: in a natural disaster you don't waste time claiming for the "shoulds" you cut your loses, learn and see how to move on.

      Laura
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      • Profile picture of the author Adam Nolan
        Originally Posted by richdirtygirl View Post

        Ok Hecky,

        my 2 cents here (before they delete this thread for whining)...

        Internet Marketing is marketing through the Internet. That said, lets break it down:

        -to market means to sell something
        -internet is the media used to sell that something

        internet marketing is a business. 95% of start-up businesses fail because the owners don't have what it really takes to build a business. What makes you think this will be any different?

        what is needed to success in IM is "can do no matter what" attitude, and the ability to learn from everything that happens to you.

        the main reason for your failure is because you are not learning from your experiences, so you can't go ahead.

        taken the smack part out of the way, you are right in a couple of things...

        IM is considered a "desperate" niche. So you will see many falcons coming in. Someone told me once talking about this: They want the magic bullet and don't want to hear the truth, if I don't take their money someone else's will...

        if you want to learn and build a solid business:

        -stay away from big claims and shiny stuff;

        -pay close attention to what you see and the way you feel when you read or see a vid, and you will be learning copy.

        -choose good quality products to promote, or build your own (and make them good quality), and don't become a falcon yourself

        -be ready to take everything that cross your way as a natural disaster: in a natural disaster you don't waste time claiming for the "shoulds" you cut your loses, learn and see how to move on.

        Laura
        Well worded, internet marketing is all about reading between the lines. It's the subtleties that I learn from. The psychological triggers frank kern uses in his videos. The way that Jeff Walker structures his launch formulas.

        The most important thing you can ever learn from IM is understanding what makes people buy and how you can trigger that. There is no one particular product that will give you all the tools. It's a journey... you have to be willing to learn and you have to be willing to fail.

        This is the most important question and tip I've ever found.

        Always ask yourself: "Would I buy this?" then ask yourself "Why". Odds are you're not alone.

        -Adam
        Signature
        Marketing Hacks Workshop Tonight at 8PM EST.

        Tonights Hack: The incredible hidden traffic source you haven't heard about that can send thousands of targeted visitors to your website for 1.9 cents per click.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Hart
    I understand what your trying to say and totally agree, it really makes my blood boil the amount of scammers but its a battle I can never win.

    The hardest part is knowing who to trust and who to listen to, the good news is there are good guys out there, its just really hard to find them as the scammers are so damn convincing.

    As a side note I always get really pissed off at the WSO section, it has tons of crap rehashed products whose creators have clearly never followed the methods they are teaching but still get "rave" reviews which are blantantly written by "you scratch my back i'll scratch yours" type of people/contacts, and when you leave negative comments they somehow disappear off the thread???? hhhhmmmm I wonder how!!!

    The good news is there are some amazing warriors with fantastic WSO's to offer but again you have to know who to trust and listen to and to do that you have to learn the hard way.

    My 2 cents

    Thanks
    Andy
    Signature

    I'm On Google + ------------- and of course Also On Twitter

    "The only thing thats keeping you from getting what you want is the story you keep telling yourself about why you can't have it"- Tony Robbins

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    • Profile picture of the author KenJ
      Hecky

      Thank you for your simple and plain honesty

      I was right where you are at one time. I could have written this post almost word for word about 18 months ago. I think most visitors here would echo these feelings.
      For me things started to change when I went to 2 IM seminars and met some of the successful people. This showed me 2 things.

      1. That earning a good income was possible
      2. That scammers do not attend seminars. If they did even if they did you would easily smell them out.

      The people I met talked to me and cleared the air. The value of this was worth 100 $47 WSO's or whatever. They told me what to do with a product I had written.

      Since then I have started to make money. Slowly and surely My monthly income is growing.

      I also cannot stand internet marketing in its worst manifestations.
      But there are real people who will help a beginner out. Just go and meet them face to face.

      kenj
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      • Profile picture of the author dle45
        This post really irritates me. Their may be some newbies to this forum that read this and get a negative aspect of IM.

        This isn't just a frustration with IM its your frustration with failure in general. Just because you tried a few things and didn't get a response or sale or make $$$ then that doesn't mean that you failed or IMers are greedy or we are taking advantage of people to line our "fat wallets".

        It means you learned what doesn't work. I cant even count how many times I've tried things and they didn't work. But Guess what. Thats one more thing that I learned doesn't work so next time I won't waste time on it.

        I just picked myself up by my bootstraps and moved on. Test something out, try something else. Maybe a new offer or product.

        Maybe there are some unethical marketers out there but thats just not on the internet. Just turn on the TV and they are in every market you can imangine. When someone works or has a product to sell they expect to make money. Some products aren't as good as others. That is to be expected.

        But to come on to the forum and basically get the tone in your post that most Imers are con-artist and greedy blood sucking leaches is far fetched.

        On one product you said you had 51 clicks and no conversions....Seriously...51. Did you even give this time to run, did you tweak it, test it, try a different offer??

        You can make this same rant about some one who tells a kid that you have what it takes to play in the majors. They may have what it takes...but they have to put in the effort. Not 51 days worth ( or clicks)

        Those who make it test, try, tweak, or move on.

        Dont give up. Try something new. Try it harder or improve upon it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
          Please do not tell my wife this does not work.

          Fine dining, cruises and my son's mustang all

          from wso's I have bought. Man, I guess I need

          to really wonder what this would be if it really

          did work.

          Robert Oliver
          Signature

          It's Not Over Till I Win!
          Do you see the glass half empty or half
          full? The difference can mean success or
          failure.
          The simple things seem to be the most
          effective and most overlooked.

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        • Profile picture of the author Hecky
          For everyone who's ranting on about 51 clicks, yes it is a small number! I set up micro-niche websites exactly using methods that have such high appraisal, put more than the work that they suggest to put in, and have got just 51 clicks over 5 websites. None of which resulted in sales.

          I'm not looking for '$$$', trust me, I'd be over the moon if $2 had found its way into my account from the dozens of hours and some $250 I've put into this. There's a limited amount of times that I can just pretend that I 'did something wrong' or 'learned a bad method'.


          I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.

          Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.

          EDIT :

          You know what, actually, I was completely right in my first post.

          To everyone who has come here not just assuming the usual that I'm a lazy kid who can't be bothered do to work and has come here to make a quick fortune, thank-you. I have read what you have to say and taken it on board. I just wish kindliness was profitable.

          Well done, scrofford in particular, for taking a generic 'lazy kid - do some work' post and putting it here with absolutely no basis for doing so.





          Originally Posted by dle45 View Post

          This post really irritates me. Their may be some newbies to this forum that read this and get a negative aspect of IM.
          ....
          So sorry to hear that a mere newbie such as myself has irritated your highness.
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          • Profile picture of the author scrofford
            Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

            For everyone who's ranting on about 51 clicks, yes it is a small number! I set up micro-niche websites exactly using methods that have such high appraisal, put more than the work that they suggest to put in, and have got just 51 clicks over 5 websites. None of which resulted in sales.

            I'm not looking for '$$$', trust me, I'd be over the moon if $2 had found its way into my account from the dozens of hours and some $250 I've put into this. There's a limited amount of times that I can just pretend that I 'did something wrong' or 'learned a bad method'.


            I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.

            Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.





            So sorry to hear that a mere newbie such as myself has irritated your highness.
            Ok then here is a great idea since you hate internet marketing so bad....JUST QUIT! Find something else that suits you. This may not be the "thing" for you. There are still plenty off offline opportunities out there.

            The reason I am saying all of this is that you aren't asking for help. You just want to whine about it all. So quit dude. It's really easy. Just stop everything you are doing and find something that will make you money.
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            • Profile picture of the author dle45
              As far as the reason your post irritates me is because some other newbie comes along who has been busting his butt, asking questions and trying to learn, may take this post and think that it isn't worth it or everyone is out to scam them for money and then they too give up.

              That is what you did. You are giving up. The road isn't easy. It's called work for a reason.

              Maybe if you would have come on hear with the humble attitude of hey guys i need help instead of clumping everyone into a group of greedy marketers then we would have been more than happy to help.

              But you have given up on yourself already and bashed the forum. Look at all the success here. Its not an accident.

              I have no problem helping someone that needs it, but not some one that has given up and bashes others and stereotypes the whole group.

              As far as the your highness comment you made .....you can just call me Sir...hahaha j/k
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              • Profile picture of the author dle45
                I like the fully baked cakes only after 2 minutes in the oven comment....

                Im stealing it...but i'll credit it back..
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Okay, it's time for a reality check.

                Hecky, let me tell you a true story, though I am going to shorten it for
                time and because this thread probably won't last long.

                In 2000, I lost my job. Last day of work actually was Dec 31, 1999.

                When I first turned to Internet marketing in 2003, I got nowhere. I had
                no idea what I was doing...none.

                So I did some research and got a little bit of education that lead me to
                freelancing.

                I did that for a while, making a few hundred to a thousand bucks a month
                and then moved on to some affiliate marketing, making another few hundred
                to a thousand bucks a month.

                For a long time, I was only making about $1,500 to $2,000 a month working
                online. It wasn't a lot, but it was something.

                But somebody made me realize that I was actually doing things that many
                people couldn't figure out how to do on their own...and making money
                doing it.

                Not selling "how to make money" books...but actually making money outside
                of that incestuous "hated by many" niche.

                That somebody made me realize that I was capable of teaching others
                to do JUST what I did.

                So I did.

                That lead to a $4,000 to $5,000 a month income.

                Then I learned about list building. Yeah, for a long time, I never built a list.

                Once I did, I slowly built up a responsive list of a few thousand and now
                make close to 5 figures a month or more. I am slightly over 6 figures a year.

                I do it from a combination of many things, and yes...some of it still from
                selling stuff outside of "how to make money".

                The problem you have, among many, is you have a distorted view of
                earning a living online.

                Amazon.com is into Internet marketing.

                Would you say that they sell junk to unsuspecting poor slobs who don't
                know any better?

                I buy DVDs from Amazon almost every month.

                And that's just ONE market.

                There are many things to sell online that have nothing to do with selling
                the dream to marketers.

                The problem is, your view of this whole industry is so warped, you can't
                see that.

                I don't know what tactics you've learned to do whatever it is you've tried
                to do. I don't care either.

                I could write out a simple plan, right here, that I can prove beyond any
                doubt makes me and countless numbers of people money each month,
                having nothing to do with selling make money products, and you still
                probably won't have any success.

                Why?

                Because your attitude stinks.

                Sorry...but I call 'em like I see 'em.

                Things for you aren't going to change unless you change.

                How?

                I don't know. I'm not you. I don't know what you have to do to get your
                head out of that bad place you're in right now.

                But I can tell you this.

                You have 2 choices.

                1. Change your attitude, make a real business plan instead of just throwing
                crap at the wall and seeing what sticks.

                2. Keep your current mindset and fail or for that matter, just give up.

                Because if you hate IM so much, there is no point in you doing this.

                There are easier ways to make a living.
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                • Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  Okay, it's time for a reality check.

                  Hecky, let me tell you a true story, though I am going to shorten it for
                  time and because this thread probably won't last long.

                  In 2000, I lost my job. Last day of work actually was Dec 31, 1999.

                  When I first turned to Internet marketing in 2003, I got nowhere. I had
                  no idea what I was doing...none.

                  So I did some research and got a little bit of education that lead me to
                  freelancing.

                  I did that for a while, making a few hundred to a thousand bucks a month
                  and then moved on to some affiliate marketing, making another few hundred
                  to a thousand bucks a month.

                  For a long time, I was only making about $1,500 to $2,000 a month working
                  online. It wasn't a lot, but it was something.

                  But somebody made me realize that I was actually doing things that many
                  people couldn't figure out how to do on their own...and making money
                  doing it.

                  Not selling "how to make money" books...but actually making money outside
                  of that incestuous "hated by many" niche.

                  That somebody made me realize that I was capable of teaching others
                  to do JUST what I did.

                  So I did.

                  That lead to a $4,000 to $5,000 a month income.

                  Then I learned about list building. Yeah, for a long time, I never built a list.

                  Once I did, I slowly built up a responsive list of a few thousand and now
                  make close to 5 figures a month or more. I am slightly over 6 figures a year.

                  I do it from a combination of many things, and yes...some of it still from
                  selling stuff outside of "how to make money".

                  The problem you have, among many, is you have a distorted view of
                  earning a living online.

                  Amazon.com is into Internet marketing.

                  Would you say that they sell junk to unsuspecting poor slobs who don't
                  know any better?

                  I buy DVDs from Amazon almost every month.

                  And that's just ONE market.

                  There are many things to sell online that have nothing to do with selling
                  the dream to marketers.

                  The problem is, your view of this whole industry is so warped, you can't
                  see that.

                  I don't know what tactics you've learned to do whatever it is you've tried
                  to do. I don't care either.

                  I could write out a simple plan, right here, that I can prove beyond any
                  doubt makes me and countless numbers of people money each month,
                  having nothing to do with selling make money products, and you still
                  probably won't have any success.

                  Why?

                  Because your attitude stinks.

                  Sorry...but I call 'em like I see 'em.

                  Things for you aren't going to change unless you change.

                  How?

                  I don't know. I'm not you. I don't know what you have to do to get your
                  head out of that bad place you're in right now.

                  But I can tell you this.

                  You have 2 choices.

                  1. Change your attitude, make a real business plan instead of just throwing
                  crap at the wall and seeing what sticks.

                  2. Keep your current mindset and fail or for that matter, just give up.

                  Because if you hate IM so much, there is no point in you doing this.

                  There are easier ways to make a living.

                  WOW, STRONG words, but so true. I have to say that I am new to this, "Making money online" thing, and I have two things I owe that to, the bad economy and being laid off, and my wonderful husband who convinced me to put my writing skills to work and make money (actually that was more like three ). At first I was so lost, so confused (sure my husband is my main mentor since he is an IMer), but spending long hours in front of a computer screen was mind boggling to me. Especially after having been a current events reporter, where I was constantly on the go, and only sat in front of my computer to write my story. Anyway, I too encountered the deception and frustration of not making money immediately. I almost quit, but my husband snapped me out of it. He told me I had to believe in myself, believe in my skills and believe in my product. I had to trust that soon enough I would begin to see an increase in clientele and return customers. Needless to say, he was right. I also discovered forum participation because of his insistence, and I do not regret it. I have learned things here that my husband did not get around to teach me, and it has been GRATEFUL. LESSON to be learned, it is all in the ATTITUDE!!!!
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                • Profile picture of the author MarkAnderson
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


                  You have 2 choices.

                  1. Change your attitude, make a real business plan instead of just throwing
                  crap at the wall and seeing what sticks.
                  I think this is the point. Do it (If Steven says don't)
                  Check what sticks, and next develop your business plan only along sticking things.
                  You'll find the success......
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          • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
            Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

            For everyone who's ranting on about 51 clicks, yes it is a small number! I set up micro-niche websites exactly using methods that have such high appraisal, put more than the work that they suggest to put in, and have got just 51 clicks over 5 websites. None of which resulted in sales.

            I'm not looking for '$$$', trust me, I'd be over the moon if $2 had found its way into my account from the dozens of hours and some $250 I've put into this. There's a limited amount of times that I can just pretend that I 'did something wrong' or 'learned a bad method'.


            I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.

            Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.





            So sorry to hear that a mere newbie such as myself has irritated your highness.

            Hecky,

            I don't think anyone at all ranted about your 51 clicks.

            If you may be referring to the post where I mentioned 51 clicks
            isn't enough to justify any statistically valid test,

            then that's only because it's a fact I shared with you to help you.

            Now that the rest of it has come out:

            "51 clicks spread over 5 sites and no sales"...

            that means you've given yourself even less of a chance so far
            to come to any conclusion.

            You'll need to send at least 100-200 clicks to each of those sites
            before you start to get a clearer picture.

            In fact, if you do that, you'll see one of them that gets
            more response than the others.

            Then you can focus more of your efforts/clicks toward
            promoting that offer and leave the others on the backburner.

            That way, you're scaling up what has worked for you
            and dropping what hasn't so you can get the most for your efforts.

            There's not any guarantee that any of those 5 will produce even one sale for you, but at least by sending enough traffic to get a fair reading,
            you'll have gained the knowledge you need to proceed.

            There could be any number of factors which are variables which can be tested, tracked and then improved upon to improve your results.

            It can be your niche, your traffic source, your offer, your price or your copy.

            Each of those variables can be tested to see what performs and then tweaked to optimize your response.

            No one ranted, only helped.

            That's about all anyone can do, is help you by sharing their knowledge from their experience of what works and what doesn't.

            It's now up to you to either act on it, disregard it, refute it,
            be encouraged and move forward...

            or throw in the towel and shift responsibility for your results
            projected outwardly to someone other than who is truly responsible for them--> Hecky.

            I hope you'll be encouraged, but not to the point of expecting fully baked cakes after only 2 minutes in the oven.
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          • Profile picture of the author EndGame
            Hi Hecky.

            I could write a book about what you are talking about. I have worked with/and know some of the biggest Internet Marketing "gurus" I know a fraudster or two and I know people who just started learning all this stuff two days ago. I have seen it from all sides and have made a few conclusions. I will spare this thread and the people here my conclusions, but I wanted to share something with you that might be of interest to you and a lot of other warriors.

            Viral Marketing : ViperChill

            It's a blog. The guy who wrote it is 20 (I think) but has an exceptional CV/background and is living proof this is possible. His approach to helping people escape the 9-5 is different to that of any other online marketing "teacher" I have ever seen.

            I have only been reading his stuff for 2 weeks, but it has been invaluable, interesting and thought provoking. His writing style is clear, concise and he really guides you through things. There are courses selling for $197 a pop that don't even come close in delivering the same amount of value this lad delivers in one blog post.

            I encourage anyone who has an hour or two spare in their week to make time for this guy's blog.
            Signature

            NA

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            • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
              Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

              I encourage anyone who has an hour or two spare in their week to make time for this guy's blog.
              Bookmarked
              Signature
              “Thinking is easy, Acting is difficult
              And to put one's thoughts into action is the most difficult thing in the world ~ Goethe”
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              • Profile picture of the author EndGame
                You won't regret it Sparhawke. I promise you that.

                Again, anyone reading this, take some time to read what the guy says, and then actually apply it. He's a very sharp guy, and a great writer.
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            • Profile picture of the author purplecone
              Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

              Hi Hecky.

              I could write a book about what you are talking about. I have worked with/and know some of the biggest Internet Marketing "gurus" I know a fraudster or two and I know people who just started learning all this stuff two days ago. I have seen it from all sides and have made a few conclusions. I will spare this thread and the people here my conclusions, but I wanted to share something with you that might be of interest to you and a lot of other warriors.

              Viral Marketing : ViperChill

              It's a blog. The guy who wrote it is 20 (I think) but has an exceptional CV/background and is living proof this is possible. His approach to helping people escape the 9-5 is different to that of any other online marketing "teacher" I have ever seen.

              I have only been reading his stuff for 2 weeks, but it has been invaluable, interesting and thought provoking. His writing style is clear, concise and he really guides you through things. There are courses selling for $197 a pop that don't even come close in delivering the same amount of value this lad delivers in one blog post.

              I encourage anyone who has an hour or two spare in their week to make time for this guy's blog.
              Wow! Talk about great material! Thanks for the link. I have bookmarked it and plan to link to his material in my upcoming work.
              Linda
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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
            Originally Posted by Hecky View Post


            Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.
            I really don't mean to be rude here but I can't help but say that working for .75/hr for 4 years takes something more than commitment....

            I'm gonna leave it up to you to decide what exactly to call it but it ain't good.

            Man, go to Wal Mart or something. You will increase your income by 10 times as a door greeter.
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

            Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.
            And very little sense it seems. What were you charging, 60 cents for a logo/website?

            The problem is you, not internet marketing.
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          • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
            I'm surprised no one called out Hecky for this quote:

            Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

            I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.
            How in the world do you expect to succeed if you genuinely hate what you're doing? No big deal if that's the case --- just do yourself a favor and pick another line of work. Life it too short to swim upstream like that.

            The idea of having a big list and creating a free ebook --- all that stuff EXCITED me. "Wow," I thought, "I can actually create this sort of funnel that becomes this sales machine that brings in money while I'm sleeping -- how cool is THAT?"

            I didn't see it as squeezing money out of people. I saw it in terms of creating something so helpful and irresistible that people WANTED to buy it . . . in fact, they thought they were getting a BARGAIN.

            And guess what? I have about 40,000 subscribers in a non-IM niche and my refund rate is like 1% or 2%.

            Final thought . . .

            When an art student once asked Picasso if she could succeed as an artist, he replied, "I don't know. Do you like the smell of paint?"
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            • Profile picture of the author Hecky
              Originally Posted by BillyBee View Post

              I'm surprised no one called out Hecky for this quote:



              How in the world do you expect to succeed if you genuinely hate what you're doing? No big deal if that's the case --- just do yourself a favor and pick another line of work. Life it too short to swim upstream like that.

              The idea of having a big list and creating a free ebook --- all that stuff EXCITED me. "Wow," I thought, "I can actually create this sort of funnel that becomes this sales machine that brings in money while I'm sleeping -- how cool is THAT?"

              I didn't see it as squeezing money out of people. I saw it in terms of creating something so helpful and irresistible that people WANTED to buy it . . . in fact, they thought they were getting a BARGAIN.

              And guess what? I have about 40,000 subscribers in a non-IM niche and my refund rate is like 1% or 2%.

              Final thought . . .

              When an art student once asked Picasso if she could succeed as an artist, he replied, "I don't know. Do you like the smell of paint?"
              There's a difference between saying "here's my product, click here to buy it, but if you don't want to buy it then that's ok".

              In internet marketing, it's like you go onto a page, get confronted by a

              • Huge headline text with some totally untrue claim,
              • Have 20 'buy' buttons in your face,
              • A video of some person will start talking to you about how wonderful it is,
              • A dozen or so fake testimonials,
              • A fake timer that says that this is the last day of this offer,
              • Some 'bonus' material that's worth absolutely nothing,
              • Claims that what you're selling is worth $1,000 and the price has been reduced to $90 just for you when it hasn't
              • Claims that this is not for the public eyes only
              • Some fake story about the authors past, and how the system turned their life around.
              • Fake payment screenshots
              Whether you buy it or not, chances are you'll end up putting your email in somewhere. Big mistake. You can expect to get dozens of 'amazing' offers over the next few weeks. If you say you don't want to buy it, there will be a few 'BUT WAIT..check out these offers' for you to see.

              If you then give in to the desperate nature of your situation and buy whatever is on offer, then you'll be dissapointed, beacuase chances are you've seen it before.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jay Deiboldt
                I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.
                Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

                There's a difference between saying "here's my product, click here to buy it, but if you don't want to buy it then that's ok".

                In internet marketing, it's like you go onto a page, get confronted by a

                • Huge headline text with some totally untrue claim,
                • Have 20 'buy' buttons in your face,
                • A video of some person will start talking to you about how wonderful it is,
                • A dozen or so fake testimonials,
                • A fake timer that says that this is the last day of this offer,
                • Some 'bonus' material that's worth absolutely nothing,
                • Claims that what you're selling is worth $1,000 and the price has been reduced to $90 just for you when it hasn't
                • Claims that this is not for the public eyes only
                • Some fake story about the authors past, and how the system turned their life around.
                • Fake payment screenshots
                Whether you buy it or not, chances are you'll end up putting your email in somewhere. Big mistake. You can expect to get dozens of 'amazing' offers over the next few weeks. If you say you don't want to buy it, there will be a few 'BUT WAIT..check out these offers' for you to see.

                If you then give in to the desperate nature of your situation and buy whatever is on offer, then you'll be dissapointed, beacuase chances are you've seen it before.


                Dude, you "hate" marketing and you're trying to become a marketer - do the math.
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                • Profile picture of the author reapr
                  Originally Posted by Jay Deiboldt View Post

                  Dude, you "hate" marketing and you're trying to become a marketer - do the math.
                  That was my thoughts too ...

                  I have several problems with the original post. If you can't stand it why even bother?

                  I can understand your frustration but it sounds like you may have set yourself up for failure. IM is not easy street.

                  Doing logo design work for 4 years at those prices means you were operating more of a hobby and not a business or you don't mind letting people take advantage of you. Don't get me wrong people may operate at a loss for a few projects or months to get their name out there but not for 4 years. Maybe it is time for you to decide what it is you are exactly operating.

                  You say you are a hard worker I can't knock that but working hard and working smart can separate the winners from the losers. Again if you are not sure you are operating a hobbie or business it may be time to sit down and write out a business plan if you are still interested in making your business successful.

                  You mention you have several sites. Are these sites or free webpages? It may take several more sites and several more weeks or months of working smarter to make a sale. If you are really ambitious 12-16 hour days 6-7 days a weel may be required if not and you are working a day job you may need to do some outsourcing. Do you have any projects lined out for the week written out even if it is just bookmarking or creating a new site? Are you willing to do that? If not it sounds like quitting or going back to logo design over at DP might be more profitable.

                  Can you really expect to make some serious money off of 51 clicks?

                  It sound like you need to work on strategies to get more traffic or find other niches that may have better conversions, buy traffic or go the easy road and quit.
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              • Profile picture of the author susinggih
                Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

                There's a difference between saying "here's my product, click here to buy it, but if you don't want to buy it then that's ok".

                In internet marketing, it's like you go onto a page, get confronted by a

                • Huge headline text with some totally untrue claim,
                • Have 20 'buy' buttons in your face,
                • A video of some person will start talking to you about how wonderful it is,
                • A dozen or so fake testimonials,
                • A fake timer that says that this is the last day of this offer,
                • Some 'bonus' material that's worth absolutely nothing,
                • Claims that what you're selling is worth $1,000 and the price has been reduced to $90 just for you when it hasn't
                • Claims that this is not for the public eyes only
                • Some fake story about the authors past, and how the system turned their life around.
                • Fake payment screenshots
                Whether you buy it or not, chances are you'll end up putting your email in somewhere. Big mistake. You can expect to get dozens of 'amazing' offers over the next few weeks. If you say you don't want to buy it, there will be a few 'BUT WAIT..check out these offers' for you to see.

                If you then give in to the desperate nature of your situation and buy whatever is on offer, then you'll be dissapointed, beacuase chances are you've seen it before.
                Hi Hecky,
                I also feel the same as you whenever I read this kind of sales page and/or receiving dozens of offers in my email. Usually I delete this kind of emails without even bother reading it And I don't care at all about what they say on the sales page and jump right away to the paragraph when they declare the price And I will instantly close the page if the new offer after "BUT WAIT" still require me to pay

                Anyway, I'm also quite a newbie in IM. I started as a blogger couple years back, and IM only several months ago. As you know many bloggers don't give a heck about making money. We do blogging because we love it. So when I decided to enter IM world, I felt free. I don't have to change my mindset, especially if it against the value that I believe. So I believe there are still rooms for someone like you.

                Now to the point. I read that you SUCCESSFULLY hit 50 and even 120 clicks/visitors. That is GREAT. So you don't have any problem in getting visitors. I'd be very happy to have 50 visitors per day in one site. All you need to do just keep that numbers steady (off course it'd be better if you can make it higher). Now how can you make money from 50 steady visitors. Well, amazon can only give you 4% fee. Have you tried using Adsense? I had an experiment mini niche site using wordpress and adsense monetized back in January. With about 50 - 70 visitors per day I could earn $5 - $10 per day. Not bad at all for newbies like us, don't you think?

                So I think you can do it. We can do it. No need to change the way you see things if you feel like it againsts what you believe.
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              • Profile picture of the author Geoff A
                Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

                There's a difference between saying "here's my product, click here to buy it, but if you don't want to buy it then that's ok".

                In internet marketing, it's like you go onto a page, get confronted by a

                • Huge headline text with some totally untrue claim,
                • Have 20 'buy' buttons in your face,
                • A video of some person will start talking to you about how wonderful it is,
                • A dozen or so fake testimonials,
                • A fake timer that says that this is the last day of this offer,
                • Some 'bonus' material that's worth absolutely nothing,
                • Claims that what you're selling is worth $1,000 and the price has been reduced to $90 just for you when it hasn't
                • Claims that this is not for the public eyes only
                • Some fake story about the authors past, and how the system turned their life around.
                • Fake payment screenshots
                Whether you buy it or not, chances are you'll end up putting your email in somewhere. Big mistake. You can expect to get dozens of 'amazing' offers over the next few weeks. If you say you don't want to buy it, there will be a few 'BUT WAIT..check out these offers' for you to see.

                If you then give in to the desperate nature of your situation and buy whatever is on offer, then you'll be dissapointed, beacuase chances are you've seen it before.
                This was very funny - I did smile when reading this quote

                Hecky as other have said maybe IM is not for you - or not for you right now. I am only learning about IM but it seems as in life it really helps if you really enjoy what you do. Otherwise why do it? Especially of not making any money at the moment.

                The people here doing well seem to be really into IM. And I suspect they were really enjoying it even before they were doing well.

                There are many things you can succeed at that you might really love. Or come back to IM when you are feeling more positive toward it Good luck
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          • Profile picture of the author SteveOllington
            Your best bet (IMHO) is to not buy any information at all to begin with, but to simply research on lots of different platforms and find your own way with your own products that you've discovered through your own research (not listening to anyone else), and do that a bunch of times until something works. By this point you'll have a much better understanding of the whole concept and will know what to look out for if you do decide to buy information and listen to others. I'm not saying that's the only way but that's how I did it anyway, I learnt for myself first, then from others.

            *Hello everybody by the way, despite the fact I've been led here to read stuff by Google millions of times, I've only just got around to actually signing up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maddi
    Hey Hecky,

    The thing is your frustration is absolutely justified as according to your post not only you buying products but actually working on them. More than 97% of people buy information and never put it to use.

    But I would suggest that first of all you should start seeing yourself as progressing rather than a failure. Sure one of the methods you tried didn't work out. Sure another one didn't. I would try to identify the reason why it didn't work out and then decide whether to re-do it or to move on to another product with more experience gained from the previous method.

    Also there may be a problem with following through. Are you actually following through each method till the end? If yes and you are seeing success stories with people raking in money doing the same thing then there is something gone wrong. Not to do with the method but something didn't go well with you doing it.

    Internet Marketing niche is quite competitive and people do make a living just by selling products about how to make money online but most of them times these methods work and we don't. And end up burning out cos of buying product after product with no result. The thing is the product doesn't bring money, action does.

    And since you are the action taker type, I don't suggest you become disappointed.

    Think about how bad do you want it?
    Then pick up a method which comes with on going support and sort of a forum for interaction.
    Then follow it till the end.

    Thinking about how bad do you want it will keep you going through hard times.
    A method with on going support and a forum will keep the interaction and support when you need it.
    Following it through till the end will tell whether there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or not.

    Hope it helps.

    Maddi
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Hecky, it doesn't sound like you've given it much of a chance or worked very hard at it, to be honest with you. Getting 51 click throughs is nothing. IM is hard work. It's about building: mailing lists, relationships, systems, content, sites, and more.

    Making money online is just one niche, there are many profitable niches. I started a thread today you might want to read. As one member called it, it's a mini lesson in email marketing. The gist of my main post is to show how I made over $1,800 in just a few hours, and the orders are still coming in. For the record, what I'm selling isn't about making money online, and it isn't expensive.

    As for money making products, I never go by the claims being made. Many of those who make the offers aren't regular forum contributors. Some come from Digital Point, like you. You need to read the regular threads and get to know some of the members. There's enough info in this part of the forum to learn to make money without buying anything, although having all the info in one place is easier to deal with.

    Some of those products might not be ripoffs. The author could be earning what he says, but isn't a very good teacher. Of course, there are some rotten apples in every group too.

    You have to understand that, while I can send an email and make several thousand dollars in one day, I've been building up to this point for years. It's work, it's perseverance, and it's a continual learning process.

    I wouldn't necessarily consider what you've spent as wasted money. It all contributes to your pool of knowledge that will one day help you find success...if you don't give up. Hope that helps.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Hecky, it doesn't sound like you've given it much of a chance or worked very hard at it, to be honest with you. Getting 51 click throughs is nothing. IM is hard work. It's about building: mailing lists, relationships, systems, content, sites, and more.
      It is totally bust-ass, pay-your-dues hard. Some people get lucky.
      Some have talents, insights, connections. But everyone who gets in
      this game has many false starts and things that don't pan out -
      along the way you gain insight and skill.

      Eventually you figure out what business model you're going to really
      pursue - what you're gonna sell. Then you work hard some more,
      to sell it.

      The only part that isn't hard is the autopilot sales that come in after
      all the hard work you've done to set up your marketing systems. It's
      kind of easy to forget that you worked hard to set it up and learn how
      to do it when you're making money later.

      This game will chew up and spit out 90% of the would-be players ...
      or should I say, quitters.

      The truth is marketing is competitive and fit competitors win. Unfit
      ones don't win.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I'll second that. You are just getting poorer buying info products. What exactly have you done? How many websites do you have? Are any getting traffic? You have good offers on them? Any good at writing sales copy?

    Instead of buying stuff, pick a plan. You might have to come up with the blueprint yourself. Most successful people do. Many of us do different things. Some flip sites, some create other products, some are purely affiliates, some are into PPC. Study and find something you want to do and then learn to do it and you don't need an ebook to do that. Google it or search this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Interesting. I'm a little baffled by this. War room has delivered incredible value. Maybe you're inundating yourself with too many projects? How about approaching this like a marathon rather than a sprint? Yi bu yi bu zou, as my grandfather used to say to me. The great thing about it is that it is your business. You do design and wasted your talent at digital "find cheap deals" forum? Why not connect to more lucrative markets? Guess what, it is just as hard to sell a toothbrush to a poor person as sell a racehorse to a rich person (I've done both).
    Signature

    Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Problem one, you said - After browsing through various threads, I was quickly won over by bold claims of huge earnings for little effort, and embarked upon my first project.

      You looked for the easy root and you got burnt, thats your own fault.

      Problem two, you said - I repeated what I had done before, but I did some better research this time, and yet I still got no results.

      you came back and gave it a half assed attempt and you failed, once again your own fault for not putting in the work.

      Problem three, you said - Now it was time for me to really throw in the towel and say that this wasn't for me.


      You admitted defeat after trying it a few times and failing, how long do you think a football player kicks a ball around when he is young, how long do you think a professional tennis player plays tennis for. They don't turn up at training and hit or kick a few balls and think, oh, great that didn't work, next! No, they don't give in, they practice and practice, learn and learn until they get it right.

      Problem four, you said - Either I'm a magnet for failure, or things just aren't as nice and shiny as they seem.


      Your attitude sucks, this is what we call an excuse, oh it can't be me it must be the product I bought...


      --

      Look, IM isn't easy, its frickin hard, there are no magic bullets, yes people do rip other people off but that happens in all places around the word, its nothing new. You got to use your head when it comes to IM, if it says it's going to earn you 1000000 in a day, it's not, most products don't mention the hard work they put in to get that in a day. It isn't as simple as slapping up a webpage, do a few blog posts, a few ezines and a few backlinks and your making money, no, thats like a day or two work.

      Yes, people do raise peoples hope but this isn't only done in IM, it is done with all products around the world. Diet coke for example, it's still crap for you but because it has diet on the can, everyone thinks it's healthy.

      It is up to you ultimately, yeah you got burnt, everyone gets burnt, deal with it, learn from it and move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    Hecky,

    51 clicks isn't nearly enough to come to any conclusion.

    That's the trouble with newer marketers in the beginning.

    They start one thing and quit before sending enough traffic
    to test.

    Then they go to another and send the offer another 50 clicks or so.

    Meanwhile, it's highly possible you could have sent the first offer 200-1000 clicks
    and made a few sales depending on the strength of your offer,
    the source of your traffic and your sales copy.

    At least then, you'd have a more statistically valid test than the 51.

    Even a "shiny new" car still requires putting the key in the ignition,
    filling up the fuel tank and depressing the pedal before accelerating.

    If you can't stand internet marketing, it may not be for you and that's okay.

    PS. This isn't any attempt to discourage you from pursuing any endeavor you want,
    but only to encourage you to plan and persist before you decide no sales after
    only 50 clicks means 'fail and bail' time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    I remember your post on the war room thread you mention, you were asking how you should find available .coms when they all seem to be taken so I showed you my technique...I did not tell you to run out and get any particular domain because it is guaranteed money, that was your choice.

    However the domain I did show you was excellent, around 1000 people search for it every month using those exact words, so the issue must be that they cannot find your site.

    And why should they when you are at position #56?

    Do some aggressive backlinking and submit your site to digg, reddit, and others and I am sure you will start to rise and then once you are on page 1 you will start to see many more people visiting you.

    Getting to page 1 of google is the toughest thing to do and the only thing that actually matters, 95% of all searchers stick to the top 10 results and if you are not in there you will not get any views...

    My site is languishing in the #15 position out of 13.3M possibles, I cannot seem to get it up there to compete with Amazon, Kelkoo and Bizrate but I am not bitter, it is simply a learning curve.

    Get your site to the top ten and you will see a turnaround
    Signature
    “Thinking is easy, Acting is difficult
    And to put one's thoughts into action is the most difficult thing in the world ~ Goethe”
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingSPY
    Hecky -

    Many newbie marketers feel your pain. It can be quite frustrating to want something very badly and keep failing.

    I hope you read this - because "Persistence and Consistency" will always prevail. Find a good mentor you trust. I agree - there are many sharks in the waters, but there are some good compasionate succesful mentors out there too.

    I just posted a thread asking successful marketers to provide a easy to follow blueprint for online success. Let's see what happens. Make sure you read it. I hope people post their blueprints.

    Keep on keeping on. Don't give up my friend.

    Happy Trails!

    PS: You're a great writer!!
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    The most OUTRAGEOUS secrets of the Gurus ever created. Pick up a FREE copy of my FREE 64 page report today. "The Ugly IM Truth". It's Shocking, but True! Grab it now!
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Wow, you think that you should just be able to buy an ebook and easily make money? Even if that were true, it still takes something called WORK. Yeah that four letter word that most people online try to avoid and think there are all these short cuts.

    Personally, it sounds to me like you are whining and just want to find some kind of magical shortcut to making a butt load of money. Get real! Anything that involves making money (legally) is going to take a lot of hard WORK.

    You know what? Yes people are selling their products JUST TO MAKE MONEY! Why else would people be selling something? Now I'm not saying there aren't those out there who really have a desire to help others reach their goals, but they still want to make a living at it and are MONEY MOTIVATED.

    You have failed because you have not learned how to market online. You want to cut corners and find the magic pill, bullett, or whatever it is you think will all of a sudden cause you to instantly have money in your bank account. THAT IS NOT REALISTIC. Unless you put in the hard work to build a list, market your website to thousands of people through different techniques and actually LEARN how to market, then you will continue to fail. It's that simple. There are just too many people online who have had successful businesses and have successful businesses to believe you just can't do this.

    The truth of the matter is that you want an easy way. You don't want to put in the time and effort it takes. You want to take the short cuts yet have the benefits of a successful online marketer. It just doesn't work that way dude!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    You seem to have missed my post Hecky so I will re-illiterate, get some back linking done and get your niche site higher in the rankings, until you do you will not get hardly any views
    Signature
    “Thinking is easy, Acting is difficult
    And to put one's thoughts into action is the most difficult thing in the world ~ Goethe”
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Ohhh wait - you mean you cant just throw up a site on the web and it starts raking in cash!!!?

      I mean I see all these other sites making money - surely there is no "real work" involved?

      Sorry you are having such a rough go. I really wish it wasnt so. I flirted with IM a few years ago - and thought similar to you that this all seemed just one incestious pool of sharks trying to make $$$ solely off poor unsuspecting warrior forum newbs.

      Then I learned a GREAT Deal for FREE and for peanuts - compared to what my offline education in marketing and hard knocks cost me ... buying wso's - paying close attention - reading forum threads - asking questions taking copius notes ...

      I managed to learn a few skills On The Job promoting a few Non IM related sites and products, and in the process discovered a few tricks and tactics that would also benefit other Online Marketers - and created a few branded products around a gap that was not being filled.

      Now I cant wait to get my online income up to par with my "career" income and leave the offline grind in ancient history. I have a ways to go - but progress can be made in rapid succession.

      Point is - I too was a bit of a doubter - till I truly applied Elbow Grease and Brain Power.

      Create a problem solving product for Frustrated Newbs ... Top 10 Things every newb should do absolutely First before spending $1 on Info Products. Get together with 10 - 20 top warriors and ask them to each answer a question you think newbs should KNOW .. offer to attribute them in the book and give an afilaite link back to their product[s] in your book. Generating a potential affilaite sale for you and sales for them! There's an art to that too btw - read up on it.

      Thats just an idear that popped up on the fly as I was posting. Your welcome

      OK - I just tried to become Hemingway - over it.

      Originally Posted by Sparhawke View Post

      You seem to have missed my post Hecky so I will re-illiterate, get some back linking done and get your niche site higher in the rankings, until you do you will not get hardly any views
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Here's a priceless piece of info for you:

    You cannot get rich buying info on how to get rich. You get rich by selling things for a profit.

    That'll be 47 bucks.
    Lol. So how much does that work out per 'letter'. That's a bargain if I haven't seen one before. Can you stick a front cover on it and sell it to me as an ebook? :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    E-books, books, videos etc... are there to teach you, NOT to make you rich.

    REMEMBER that.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Hecky,

    What the heck?

    You obviously have a lot of upset.

    I understand that.

    But not everyone here rips people off or even sells things in the Internet Marketing niche.

    I think it may be wise to quit, but go knowing that not everyone was out to get you.

    Perhaps you also need to evaluate your own efforts and thinking. Were you naive in your thinking? Were you looking for a quick solution?

    Did you put the work in?

    Sam
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    • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
      Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

      Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.
      You are not charging enough for your work. Digital Points is for starting out and getting your feet wet. Or offering autopilot services at discount rates. May I recommend Elance (Elance | Outsource to freelancers, professionals, experts, and consultants - Get work done on Elance.) instead. Sounds like you are not confident enough in your skills.

      Originally Posted by richdirtygirl View Post

      Ok Hecky,

      my 2 cents here (before they delete this thread for whining)...

      Internet Marketing is marketing through the Internet. That said, lets break it down:

      -to market means to sell something
      -internet is the media used to sell that something

      internet marketing is a business. 95% of start-up businesses fail because the owners don't have what it really takes to build a business. What makes you think this will be any different?

      what is needed to success in IM is "can do no matter what" attitude, and the ability to learn from everything that happens to you.

      the main reason for your failure is because you are not learning from your experiences, so you can't go ahead.

      taken the smack part out of the way, you are right in a couple of things...

      IM is considered a "desperate" niche. So you will see many falcons coming in. Someone told me once talking about this: They want the magic bullet and don't want to hear the truth, if I don't take their money someone else's will...

      if you want to learn and build a solid business:

      -stay away from big claims and shiny stuff;

      -pay close attention to what you see and the way you feel when you read or see a vid, and you will be learning copy.

      -choose good quality products to promote, or build your own (and make them good quality), and don't become a falcon yourself

      -be ready to take everything that cross your way as a natural disaster: in a natural disaster you don't waste time claiming for the "shoulds" you cut your loses, learn and see how to move on.

      Laura
      You said it best of the bunch Laura (why dirty btw?:p).

      Or as my very successful friend in stock broking (an economist) told me: "Where there are few/small entry barriers, there is a lot of competition".

      Now if someone wanted to open a convenience store in real life, they would probably realize that there are tons of other convenience stores and that small time shops don't make a lot of money for long hours of work.

      Then maybe the person in question would say: "I wonder how I could offer something better/cheaper/relevant?". Maybe the guy/girl had access to some rare tea from China trough friends or had such a winning personality that customers would drop by for just a chat. Or maybe this guy knew of a small town where a factory just opened. Now that would be a reasonable line of thought.

      Not many people think like that in IM though and that's mainly because very few people will tell you that this is either a business or a hobby. I really don't think there is any in between.

      If you have no business experience whatsoever, I doubt you will succeed in IM. You need to be able to organize, to work with trusted partners (that includes affiliate networks), identify a market, decide how to compete (because you have to) and lots more.

      I decided to take a break from IM cause I was doing mainly affiliate marketing and let be honest and say I am more than a little tired of Clickbanks antics, but it's hard to let go of this thing once you've tasted freedom.

      The thing is: You need QUALITY. Something that is different. Something that is BETTER. I think the days of easy internet money with mediocre content is gone. Too much competition.

      And I also feel like the IM vultures are a pain in the ass. There's lots of good people on Warrior Forum though. Those are the ones like Laura who tell it like it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Hecky, great points for starting out. However, Cash37 DID make a relevant comment. His point is your attitude sucks. You will never make good money in internet marketing with this kind of attitude, I'm sorry to say. You have to look behind the glitz and promises of all those WSOs and all that sales copy directed at guys like you, and look for the meat, and act on it. You have the act on it part, you are just acting on the wrong stuff. You have to PERSEVERE. Truth is, some people do get up and rolling in month and start making big money fast. Others take much longer. You are of the latter, obviously, and it probably takes longer for most of us. It has for me. But you still have to persevere, no matter what. It's not as easy as all the sales copy makes it seem, because you actually have to work hard at the beginning. What, work hard? But I did this because they all say it's easy! It's not. But once you find something that works, it will be much easier and you can start figuring out how to make your money almost on autopilot, and that IS possible.

    So, good points but you need to start thinking positively or you will not succeed. It takes a strong mind, yes, but start filling your mind with good thoughts, balance that with the reality of hard work to get it done and that you must work really hard to get it, and you can start anew. You must be become obsessed with succeeding in this business.

    The War Room has been cleaned up a bit. If you didn't notice lately, there are now no forced opt-in threads, there. So if somebody gives something, they cannot force you to join their email list anymore. They can ask you to, but cannot force you to now, they just have to give you what they said they'd give you.
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  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    Hecky, if I tallied up the amount of money I've spent on failed business ideas, it would be a lot more than you spent on IM, trust me. It doesn't mean they were BAD business ideas or that my money wasn't well spent. Most likely, my execution wasn't what it should be. I worked hard at them, put money into them - and cut my losses when it didn't work out.

    Maybe that's what you need to do with IM.

    My theory on most "internet marketing" gurus is pretty similar to my thoughts on anyone who will share their secrets for getting rich - they're getting rich by selling seminars and products on how to get rich. Maybe they did make money doing whatever they're telling you to do, but they're REALLY raking it in by turning around and doing seminars and selling products to people. I don't buy them. There's a lot of free advice here in the forums. Heck, many of the gurus even have a lot of free stuff on their sites. Either you have time or you have money - I have time, so I take the time to pick through the information, put what I've learned into practice, then tweak and test and tweak some more. I'm not making a lot of money really fast, but I'm learning a lot, having fun and every day seeing more results from all the work I put into it.

    One of my favorite stories is about an executive at IBM who pitched a wild-assed idea that cost the company $3 million to launch - and it fizzled. He was called into the CEOs office and he figured he was going to be fired. He offered up his resignation and the CEO said (something to the effect of - I don't have time to look up the story particulars just now) - I don't want you to resign! We just paid $3 million for your education!

    Look on it as a learning experience - and move on, man. Whining about not being successful is just a loser attitude. Either figure out what you needed to learn from it and apply it to IM or some other business - but move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Wow sounds like someones mad .... The only way you are gonna make it is by actually working and building your business. Do not buy anything online for a while, and concentrate on the techniques needed to actually build your online business. Starting here is a great start just keep educating yourself. Put a blog, or a website together send traffic to it for starters. Once that gets established and you start seeing a reasonable amount of traffic then start an Email list, then write an E-book etc....

    You are not gonna build a business by strictly reading E-Books yeah some can give you good ideas but you cn get that information for free most of the time. Concentrate on things that make you money by starting to build your online business. Hell I give away stuff for free ..... Start building, and stop buying at least for now!

    Hope that helps! Good luck, and stick with it dont give up!
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  • Money follows value.

    A lot of people do nothing but copy and rehash what they think they know.

    A lot of people are trying to sell shovels to the gold rush.

    There are millions and millions of products and services that can be sold online.

    The "problem" if there is one is that people don't look at how to create value for the end user.... the guy with the credit card! They get caught up in Traffic, and Link Building, and "Promoting".

    Little of which have anything to do with convincing a buyer to make a purchase.

    You don't have to be unethical to make money.

    And if you are focusing on the teeny tiny IM niches you are probably not going to make it.

    Focus on what you know... what are your hobbies, what do you know a lot about, what niches can you set yourself apart in?

    I make a lot of money from a couple of sites I run that are specifically related to what I like to do in real life. And my writing in those niches reflects it. And people gravitate to those sites because they can "feel" my passion for them.

    Crazy thing is... I get people writing me about one particular site and think I'm a Dealer for the products. When I am very clearly stating through out the site I am not!

    So what you really need to do is look at how YOU can create VALUE within a Niche you are passionate about.

    The only IM products I purchase are softare tools to manage my business and save me time.

    I don't care about this months tip or trick.

    Just look at ClickBank... whatever it there today will be gone in a couple of months. No staying power.

    Work on "Evergreen" sites. Work "Evergreen" niches.

    What's Evergreen? It's things that people will always need and want.

    Good luck.

    And yes. Everyone isn't cut out for this. Find your passion.

    Internet Commerce is an extremely small part of the economy.
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  • Profile picture of the author pks1967
    Hecky,

    I'm sorry to hear you're having such a bad time. It's sure not easy. It took me several years of trying different products and blowing money on advertising to test different things.

    I wanted to give up many times, but I stuck with it, because I wanted to be my own boss and not have to work for someone else.

    Five and a half years ago, I started making more online than at my computer networking job. No cake in the break room for me. I hated the job and I was gone.

    In that time, I've made a lot of money and I've lost a lot of money. Some years were better than others. For me, it was all about the freedom. I hated going in to work each morning, listening to people talk about nothing in endless and pointless meetings.

    And no, I'm not selling anything. I don't have some magic system to make anyone rich. In fact, since the recession hit, nothing has been working for me either.

    Now I'm just about broke and the wife is yelling at me to get a job. Can you even imagine how hard it would be to go back to work after being my own boss for over five years? If I have to, of course I'll go and find another job to pay the bills. But I'll never quit online marketing. For the last year or so, I've been working over 50 hours per week, every week. I'm at my computer seven days a week, working on building new websites and building traffic.

    My savings is just about gone now. Thank God I socked most of it away when I was having good years. Am I going to quit. Not a chance!

    There just is nothing like being your own boss and not having to answer to anyone for anything. When the money was coming in, I didn't have to work so many hours. My time was mine to do what I wanted with.

    You just have to ask yourself "how bad do you want it". Enough to keep going? So no, it's not going to be easy. You'll have to put in a lot of hours and a lot of hard work. But once you taste success and see real money coming in after all those years of trying, it's a feeling like no other.


    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


    Brad
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  • Profile picture of the author ozduc
    Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

    - and people only make money here by selling eBooks that tell you how to make money.
    That is so weird. Imagine that, people on an Internet Marketing Forum making money by selling products that tell you how to make money in Internet Marketing.
    And I thought this forum was about dog training
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Morgan
      I understand what you're saying. People behind the numbers, etc.

      Basically I think you're making a pretty broad statement about marketers that may or may not be true. Yes, there are scammers, and yes there are people who want "squeeze every dime" out of their customers.

      But there are also people who truly believe in what they are doing and
      truly want to help people. Yes, those people don't make as much money as others, but they enjoy what they do.

      I won't pass judgment or say too much, but I think you need to spend more time in the industry before giving up, and try to see more of the positive things as well as the negative.
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  • Profile picture of the author armadin
    Hecky, perhaps IM is not your passion, obviously if everyone in the world wanted to do IM, there would be 6 billion marketers writing blogs about their battle with starvation

    On the other hand, if you are just disappointed with some marketers or practices, then shrug them off, the number of people who speak with honesty is good and I see most experienced marketers here as genuine people promoting legit products.

    IM is quite hard to get started with, most commonly the problem with finding niches that convert or getting your site(s) out there to be seen.

    Money is best made when you have a great piece of content, not necessarily unique either, just something that has an interesting spin and that makes people think. Obviously, you can have a passion for igloos but good luck trying to sell them to ordinary people, so it is a combination of finding something that you personally like to promote and something that indeed people will want to buy. Being fresh to IM, you should just give failure its spot, not saying that its impossible to make money from the start but remember that a lot of well known and rich people have started their enterprise in utter misery. In a world where materialism dominates, you got to remind yourself that the subtle fabric of money originates from the mind of people and although not an illusion anymore, its power is still sustained within the minds of all of us. You got to try and manipulate this illusion a bit, if you compare cash and content you will eventually see that money is more common then good ideas or good products.

    Cheers mate
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Sadly I agree. I think people do forget it's hard working people who want to make a litle extra money on the side who often get ripped off so a guru can say "look I made $250,000 las month in your face loser..." I am sick of this "Well it dosn't matter he made money from it" attitude here! Forget being honest or ethical the almighty $$ rules everything.

    Not to paint everyone with the same brush but there are a lot of sharks in this industry (as in others where there is money) and there are a lot of them here on this forum. Afew very dangerous ones. They probably see nothing wring in what they are doing. Like O.J Simpson you can convince your-self you are doing the "right thing"

    Step back and look at what they are doing....you do not have to pay. Watch what they sell and how they sell it. Now if you can sell your soul to make some money copy them.

    I wouldn't give up if I was you.....you can make legit money without sellnig false hope andreams to the desperate. Take abreak and stop buying WSO's 90% are junk .It's gettign like DP forums in here now. The Black Hatters are hitting this forum hard now.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    No it's not easy and noone should expect it to be but what she is there are so many scams it's geting impossible to pick the good/legitimate ones out.

    The big problem on the Net is regulation. People are not scared of the consequens of their copy, prmoises etc. Look at the WSO section. The FTC would have a FIT. I'd say about 20% are ok..the rest.

    As far as the reason your post irritates me is because some other newbie comes along who has been busting his butt, asking questions and trying to learn, may take this post and think that it isn't worth it or everyone is out to scam them for money and then they too give up.

    That is what you did. You are giving up. The road isn't easy. It's called work for a reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
      Stop spending money on WSO's and stuff you don't need. Don't believe outrageous claims! I have learned that the best way is to figure the things out for yourself.
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      Time of thinking is over.
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    • Profile picture of the author matrix1989
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      No it's not easy and noone should expect it to be but what she is there are so many scams it's geting impossible to pick the good/legitimate ones out.

      The big problem on the Net is regulation. People are not scared of the consequens of their copy, prmoises etc. Look at the WSO section. The FTC would have a FIT. I'd say about 20% are ok..the rest.
      "regulation" is not the answer

      people need to stand on their own 2 feet and not let the FTC think for them....
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by cjmo75 View Post

      I do feel bad for the people who get shammed into thinking that a $47 ebook is going to show them how to make money online. I don't promote or sell products like that.
      why not? You would make a killing

      But on a serious side-note..i notice a weird under-tone since you're basically thinking that a "$47 ebook" obviously cannot make (someone) money.

      This is wrong. You know what? I am making money with FREE stuff like PLR software.

      Also..ironically in what you're saying you're basically admitting that you yourself would never sell an ebook for $47 "to make money"....you are basically admitting you would charge more? Therefore contradicting your own philosophy?

      Also...the forum here is the best example that MOST (yes, most!!) information you need is indeed free.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Your first problem is that you read War Room posts of others before those of Allen's.
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    • Profile picture of the author topmbtshoes
      I know it is possible...

      We also have do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Steven Wagenheim you are one of the good guys here. I'd trust my house keys with you. 100% legit and there to help. BUT you are a rarity. I think what she is saying is most most outragous claims just to get sales. Knowing most cannot duplicate what they hvae done. I know what you are saying....there is no wrong and right here.
    OPM Sign up with Steve....he'll show you how to make legit money online. Scam free zone 100%.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
    Hecky, it's clear that you're pretty angry about this whole situation and I really get where that's coming from.

    And I'm sure many people reading this thread have had very similar experience.

    You're right, there are many dishonest marketers in the IM niche. Some are downright scammers, others simply don't care that much for their customers and produce sub-par products that they can set up as "newbie traps" (big promises, big hype, etc.).

    BUT that's only some of them. It certainly doesn't apply to Internet marketing in general.

    Try to take a step back from your anger and just look at this thread. Lots of people here are genuinely trying to help you out. Maybe they have a wrong impression of who you are and how much work you've done and maybe the way they express their opinions rubs you the wrong way, but for the most part, they are making an effort to try to help you.
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  • Profile picture of the author emigre
    hecky, you only can't stand IM because you haven't made money with it yet. Once you get your first $10, $100 or whatever, you will like it.

    Please don't buy anymore wsos for making money no matter how many praises it gets. I myself only ever buy services such as backlinks and such but even then it's a gamble - links may never show up or sites can disappear after a month etc.

    Forget about the money lost - everyone starting out has spent money on crap that don't work. That's why most of these products are aimed at newcomers.

    Instead, go online and read money making blogs such as the viperchill one someone recommended. That page right there is detailed instructions on how to go about it.

    In the meantime, maybe you can stick to a full time job and do IM part time until you get the hang of it. Don't give up.

    It will take sometime, don't expect overnight riches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Kemp
    Get over the anger as it won't help. Internet marketing is great. You have invested around $200 and things haven't worked out. What were you expecting? The $200 investment has given you valuable lessons on what doesn't work.

    I am very careful about what I read and believe. Nothing should really raise your hopes. Only you can really do that. You should invest in products that will educate you, not ones that promise you riches. You can spot a scam if you stop and think. How is it possible that one product will suddenly open up the doors of riches for you? It is like those spam emails from Nigeria.

    Are you clear on what you want to do online?.
    Here is the problem - you thought by spending money that you would be making money. You should be focused on establishing value for other people. That will eventually make you money

    Succeeding online is about learning the fundamentals, focus and helping others. It is pretty simple.

    Avoid the hype and keep learning. Resenting bad decision you made will only slow you down and make you unhappy.

    Don't give up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    OP your post irritates me. What you have not understood until now is its a real business, and you must treat it like one.
    After just 51 clicks through you are ready to quit. If you were in a brick and mortar business and if 51 people who visit your store and none of them buy from you will you say that this departmental store business is a scam.
    Same goes with IM From past 3 and half years I have been reading stuff about IM but could not make money you know why, and i don't feel ashamed to admit it, the reason is my attitude sucked.

    I decided to change my mindset first and master the fundamentals of marketing on the internet like article marketing. And you know the next thing that happened to me, forget about 51 click through I got 615 click through but not even a single sale. Was I ready to give up yet? NOO.



    I changed my strategy and I got my first ever sale and after that there was no looking back . Now In no sense I have made it fully online, but I realize like any other business it's not about any tricks that you can learn from WSO or some guru but its

    about influencing people and providing more value to people.

    Remember if you can convey that you can understand their problem better than they can. you can immediately start to make rapport with them. Once you have rapport with a person you can easily lead them to your offer. Ofcourse this is overly simplified but you must understand marketing first because It is Internet MARKETING.

    Just my 2 cents
    Peace
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Lots of useful feedback here, that can be well applied to improving one's online business. Sadly, much of it is laced with sharp barbs that are probably more hurtful than helpful.
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    Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jackbgd
    Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

    Warriors,

    I'm just making this post to express what I think, and to tell you my story.

    I came here after spending a number of years at the DigitalPoint forum, where I spent hours each day doing design work and making minimal amounts of money. Straight away I decided to join the prestigous 'War Room' section, in the hope of being able to start off something in the Internet Marketing world that seemed so attractive.

    After browsing through various threads, I was quickly won over by bold claims of huge earnings for little effort, and embarked upon my first project. I wont go into details, but it didn't work out. $100 of investment plus the $47 war room fee, and nada. No result. The program claimed that poor performers would pull in $2-4 a day, and yet I made nothing. The niche I used was suggested to me by a fellow warrior, and I wrote all the content I needed to exacting specifications. Yet nothing.

    A few weeks later I came back with a fresh mind, looking to start again. I repeated what I had done before, but I did some better research this time, and yet I still got no results. Meanwhile there was nothing but success stories back at the thread, and I was left at the back - without a single cent. 51 clicks, 0 conversions.

    Now it was time for me to really throw in the towel and say that this wasn't for me. I decided to look at another thread to try out, and again I've had no results. Nothing I do works, I thought I wasn't cut out for this and became jealous of all those who have succeeded. Nothing much has changed since then.

    One thing that just strikes me is the greed and dishonesty that Internet Marketing can bring with it. It's all about squeezing as much money out of people as you can - and there's very little honestly or true kindness. For example, most of the threads in the 'War Room' require you to sign up to their email lists and I still recieve half a dozen emails a day from people who decided to 'kindly' give away some information for free. Truth is, they just found a different way to make money.

    I recently bought a WSO here that had pages of good reviews and had more of the dazzling claims of fortunes on it. I read a few pages of the book and realized it's pretty much just a few War Room posts strung together into a book. I posted what I thought, and the thread creator and I took it to PM where he confronted me about what I said - apparently his sales had fallen 50% after what I said and he wanted me to post on the thread to get these back up again. Again, it's all just about sales and money. He did offer me a refund, though.

    I also bought some software recently that I saw online. I won't go into specifics, but it didn't actually work. I've tried to contact the seller, but I somewhat doubt that he's the real seller anymore - it was probably some sort of affiliate system because he's posted it and run away, having pocketed $40.

    My experience at the Warrior Forum has made me rethink my whole perspective on money. As far as I'm now concerned, money just turns people into desperation, and sometimes as far as greed and dishonesty. Either I'm a magnet for failure, or things just aren't as nice and shiny as they seem - and people only make money here by selling eBooks that tell you how to make money.

    All around this forum and others like it are people preaching trickery. Whether it be tricking search engines or people, it's just not fair.

    I suppose if I want to leave one message to whoever has read this far, it's to remember that there are people behind those sales and profit numbers. There are people that will be putting their hard-earned money into what you sell, and there are people who's lives you are making harder by trying to make a quick buck.

    Every time you claim a system to make per month, you raise someone's hopes - and exploiting their human nature to respond to that hope when you know it's not possible is just inhumane.

    N.B. This isn't a complaint at WarriorForum in particular, and I hope it isn't against the rules to express my opinion. I would be overjoyed to see someone come and make me change my mind on this issue.
    I don't want to be hard on you, but all I'll say is that you are thinking like a loser. You'll NEVER make any money online. So go quit.
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  • Profile picture of the author freedomguy
    Hecky

    In all this discussion about selling IM stuff to newbies and trying to make money from other people's plans and ideas found in ebooks etc. an important point has been overlooked.

    Some members have talked about the importance of 'passion' in your subject. Others have mentioned the importance of delivering value to customers who need the solutions you are selling. My question is simply

    "What are you good at?"

    You mentioned you were specialising in graphic design over at Digital point and apparently getting paid peanuts (or less!) for your efforts, so you headed over here to join in the IM frenzy, bad idea!

    Getting back to the graphic design thing - are you any good? I ask because very few IMers are any good at GD, it's one of the services we have to buy every time we set up a new website.

    I guess my point is, don't come into a new marketplace and criticise the things we sell, especially among a group of people who give so much help to newbies for free!

    Come in and show us what you are good at. Show us how you can help us achieve what we want. The demand for good graphics for websites is insatiable. Yes, there are warriors selling graphic design here on this forum, but they are far, far fewer than people selling IM 'how to' stuff.

    Over to you Hecky....

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
      Hecky.

      I'll skip my opinions but don't overlook the kindness in this forum. This place is full of genuine help, you are only concentrating on the negative parts. I'll make you an offer. I will help you get kick started. No guarantees, no blueprints, just some education and tell you where you are going wrong. It won't happen overnight. There will be some criteria, I won't state what that is right now.

      You don't have to take me up on it, other than that, the offer is only open for 24hrs. Why? Because if you start a thread like this and don't read EVERY reply within that time (the thread isn't dead yet), then you have already failed what I consider the most important requirement in business, that can't be taught. Passion! Is there anything in it for me? Possibly, I might learn something that could be useful to me right now. I also might not but that won't matter. PM me if you're interested, or reply here if you can't PM.

      Lee
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      • Profile picture of the author Focused Action
        Just remember one thing - there are very few opportunities where you can work when you want, where you want, doing what you want and making as much as you want. But, treat it as a real business - work hard - study from the best and most of all take action! I know it is frustrating, i myself am very disappointed in my performance but I accept full responsibility for jumping from method to method, confusing activity with productive action, not following all the steps, etc.

        I just recently lost everything I had built in 10 years as an owner of a custom home building biz. 10 years to build an award winning company, 1 year for the walls to collapse as the home building / real estate market collapsed. I can assure you the costs and risks of building a "brick and mortar" business are 1000 fold the cost to start an online based business. I can also assure you I will never build this type of biz again - signing leases, personal guarantees, buying office equip, employees..... As somebody posted above - internet marketing is just marketing / selling a product or service using the highly cost effective medium known as the internet. This is an ideal business form!!

        I am trying to "clean up" the mess I have made so far with my internet biz, but I will NEVER give up. I have gained enormous education - i just need to create a solid plan and then work it better than I have previously.

        Start over, take a fresh start, dont give up, be focused on SUCCESS!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    I agree completely with FreedomGuy, if you really are good at graphics and design then in time you will be in demand for your work and you will be able to set your own price, with that you will be able to commission people to make you websites that start bringing in the pennies.

    Try that or just offer graphics for people to write you articles that will get noticed and help you make money...there are lots of people here wth skills, and lots without and if you can use yours and borrow someone elses in a barter you will get ahead.

    The worst part about valuing yourself is undervaluing yourself...are you so crap at graphics that you are only worth 75c an hour?
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  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    I'm sorry, what did you expect from 51 clicks?

    That's your problem right there. No traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Biggy Fat
    You know what, dawg? This post, THIS post, just inspired me to return to my IMRant.com blog. I will be sure to link to it in my post there, man.

    People, what he said is the damn truth. I simply couldn't agree more, I swear. I'm dead effin serious.

    Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

    Warriors,

    I'm just making this post to express what I think, and to tell you my story.

    I came here after spending a number of years at the DigitalPoint forum, where I spent hours each day doing design work and making minimal amounts of money. Straight away I decided to join the prestigous 'War Room' section, in the hope of being able to start off something in the Internet Marketing world that seemed so attractive.

    After browsing through various threads, I was quickly won over by bold claims of huge earnings for little effort, and embarked upon my first project. I wont go into details, but it didn't work out. $100 of investment plus the $47 war room fee, and nada. No result. The program claimed that poor performers would pull in $2-4 a day, and yet I made nothing. The niche I used was suggested to me by a fellow warrior, and I wrote all the content I needed to exacting specifications. Yet nothing.

    A few weeks later I came back with a fresh mind, looking to start again. I repeated what I had done before, but I did some better research this time, and yet I still got no results. Meanwhile there was nothing but success stories back at the thread, and I was left at the back - without a single cent. 51 clicks, 0 conversions.

    Now it was time for me to really throw in the towel and say that this wasn't for me. I decided to look at another thread to try out, and again I've had no results. Nothing I do works, I thought I wasn't cut out for this and became jealous of all those who have succeeded. Nothing much has changed since then.

    One thing that just strikes me is the greed and dishonesty that Internet Marketing can bring with it. It's all about squeezing as much money out of people as you can - and there's very little honestly or true kindness. For example, most of the threads in the 'War Room' require you to sign up to their email lists and I still recieve half a dozen emails a day from people who decided to 'kindly' give away some information for free. Truth is, they just found a different way to make money.

    I recently bought a WSO here that had pages of good reviews and had more of the dazzling claims of fortunes on it. I read a few pages of the book and realized it's pretty much just a few War Room posts strung together into a book. I posted what I thought, and the thread creator and I took it to PM where he confronted me about what I said - apparently his sales had fallen 50% after what I said and he wanted me to post on the thread to get these back up again. Again, it's all just about sales and money. He did offer me a refund, though.

    I also bought some software recently that I saw online. I won't go into specifics, but it didn't actually work. I've tried to contact the seller, but I somewhat doubt that he's the real seller anymore - it was probably some sort of affiliate system because he's posted it and run away, having pocketed $40.

    My experience at the Warrior Forum has made me rethink my whole perspective on money. As far as I'm now concerned, money just turns people into desperation, and sometimes as far as greed and dishonesty. Either I'm a magnet for failure, or things just aren't as nice and shiny as they seem - and people only make money here by selling eBooks that tell you how to make money.

    All around this forum and others like it are people preaching trickery. Whether it be tricking search engines or people, it's just not fair.

    I suppose if I want to leave one message to whoever has read this far, it's to remember that there are people behind those sales and profit numbers. There are people that will be putting their hard-earned money into what you sell, and there are people who's lives you are making harder by trying to make a quick buck.

    Every time you claim a system to make per month, you raise someone's hopes - and exploiting their human nature to respond to that hope when you know it's not possible is just inhumane.

    N.B. This isn't a complaint at WarriorForum in particular, and I hope it isn't against the rules to express my opinion. I would be overjoyed to see someone come and make me change my mind on this issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author USGTMauthor
    I also think people put themselves under too much pressure. If I needed to make money quickly I would not go into a business I had no experience in with no other income and expect it to solve my money problems. Some people need to just get or keep a job(s) while they learn what they are doing. Remember the old saying they used to tell musicians and actors, don't quit your day job. Most newbies should solve their short term income problem however they need to an work online part time until they have a workable plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheGraduate
    I deleted the previous post I had made to this thread, because maybe I was a little too harsh to the guy when I wrote it. Now I came back with a different idea in mind, which is to actually try to help the guy.


    First of all lets look at some facts here:

    1) you do not have a sig in your posts with a link to a website which would give people in this forum a better idea of what it is that you are good at (keep in mind that every time you post to this forum there is a good chance that people who read your posts and like it will probably click on the links in your sig to try to find out more about you), you are not displaying any links in your contact information either (again, you are missing a chance to attract people to your opportunity)

    2)this is the only thread you have posted, if you really were serious about making money I think you already would have posted a WSO and other kind of threads with strong headlines as the thread title, and you would be paying to bump up those threads to the front as soon as they fall back to the third page.

    That's two strikes so far

    3)This thread has gotten more than 1000 views in just two days, don't you think that this would have been a great opportunity for you to get people to click on a link in your sig if you had one?

    That's strike three, you are out!

    No I am not just talking crap, click on >main marketing discussion forum- at the top and look for a thread that has gotten more than 2000 views, then look at the date when it was created, you will find out that those are mostly old threads that warriors are bumping up to give exposure to their links in their sigs and to their contact information in their profiles. with that said, now you know that you are just wasting your time in this forum, so do not complain if you are not seeing any results from it.


    note: I have not seen financial results from using this forum either, but as you can see, I am not trying to make money from it YET, my sig clearly states -amazing product coming soon- once I decide to place a link in my sig and contact information in my WF profile, my whole approach on how to behave in this forum will be directed towards getting people to want to know about what I am offering. (even my avatar might be replaced by my own pic etc)

    note: you have nine posts and one thread to this forum, that's worst than worst for you to be claiming already that internet marketing is not good for you, with a better try you could be making a monthly income just from this forum alone, trust me, there is people here doing it!
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  • Profile picture of the author sparkle_debby02
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricci Cox
      The fact you have titled this post "I can't stand Internet Marketing" suggests to me, that you are in the wrong business.

      I'd suggest that you do something else. Choose something that you enjoy and are PASSIONATE about for a start. Life's to short to do stuff you don't like!

      And there's plenty of us here who LOVE internet marketing and are making money because we are working hard and putting what we learn into action.

      Good luck and all the best with whatever you decide...

      Ricci
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  • Profile picture of the author hjaynes
    This is not a dig at you personally Hecky but I've learned a few things in my years of marketing. My normal "pay the bills" business is financing businesses. I specifically finance gas stations. In my particular area of expertise, I have been #1-#2 on google/yahoo for probably ten years. People put up hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions) to net earning 100-200K a year in their business. Keep that in perspective. Many people are trying to earn a bizillion dollars from internet marketing with VERY LITTLE sacrifice when it comes to capital outlay. Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. I did a lot of testing in my own business to find out what works and what doesn't. This did not happen in a few weeks or a few months and there was no manual or ebook or training manual or anything. Create your success. You always have to think long term. Internet marketing is nothing more than another means of advertising to sell your product or service. Don't be so intimidated (and impressed) by these so called big buck earners.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Parker
    I understand your frustration, but you have to keep trying. Like the saying goes "Winners Never Quit and Quitters Never Win". You are going to fail over and over until one day that success finally comes. You will learn from all of your failures and your success will come from the knowledge you learned from your failures.

    I hope you get what I am saying as I just had a strong rum and coke and am feeling good.

    Just never give up and success will come in time, the IM market is not a get rich scheme. It takes a lot of work and dedication, but the reward is awesome when it finally comes.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    I just got a kickass 32 gig Itouch. I just put a whole bunch of music and games on it, and it's provided many hours of fun even though I haven't had it for very long...

    Wanna know how I paid for it? MY INTERNET MARKETING MONEY.

    I didn't do anything unethical, either. I legitimately earned the money to buy it. It didn't exactly come to me in my sleep though... I had to fall on my face a few times before I got that money, before I could even *think* about buying myself an Itouch.

    I also got myself some kickass boots.

    I guess these are figments of my imagination, though, because none of this IM stuff actually works, right? Riiiiiight.

    Those things don't compare to the houses and cars that other Warriors have bought with their Internet Marketing money. They didn't scam anyone either, and I'm pretty sure that many actually fell on their faces even more than I did...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    It is all part and parcel of learning, this falling back on our asses thing.

    Do 100 things and maybe 2-3 may wrk so we can concentrate on those, it is very rare for something to work the first time we do it since there are so many ways to screw up...never stop swimming though...
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Hecky , I do feel for you, but i can't help feeling that you do have to take some of the blame yourself.

      You've been working on the DP forum for a long time surely that is long enough to grab the bull by the horns and start to biuld a business from IM. 5 years ago I'd never heard of adsense or clickbank. for the past 4 1/2 years i've been making a full time living online.

      It took work..lots of work probably more work that i've ever done and I spent 12 years in the armed forces.

      There is no quick money from IM first make $1 then upscale that to $10 then work for $100. you can't go from 0 to $10,000
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  • Profile picture of the author randalblanchette
    I suppose it is a matter of perspective. I happen to like the challenge and testing. It is kind of creativity in action. Like art maybe?
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  • I think the OP's point is not to stress on his failure, but on the fact that morals are low on the IM niche. To which I 100% agree. IM is the new wild wild west...
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  • Profile picture of the author mlord10
    Not going to make a long post here because much of what I would say to you has already been covered. You can find a ton of great marketing info online for free, so there is really no reason to go around buying the "latest and greatest course." I am sure that you you already know that.

    51 clicks=nothing. (as far as testing goes). I generally want to see at least 200-300 clicks to a sales page before I even think about analyzing the results. If I had quit after 51 clicks then two of my best affiliate cash cows would have never happened.

    I very distinctly remember having one product take 255 clicks before generating a sale, yet now it converts at around 1:40, and pays me a nice commission.

    The bottom line is that in order to make this work you have to believe that it is going to work. Remember: "If it is to be, it is up to ME."
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Contrary to what many people believe, making money online requires expertise. There is no free money anywhere, you have to work for it.

    It's either you are working your butt on the wrong direction or your niche is very competitive.

    While i agree that the money making niche is very competitive, you can still do very well with some bit of skills.

    Below are some internet marketing tips.

    1. Pick a product, not just any product but one people are willing to spend their hard earned cash on. And something that is slightly different and better than your competitors.

    2. Know your target market. You will need an idea of what they want, how they want it and how to get to them.

    3. You need a site of your own. If you think this isn't necessary then you are dead wrong. A lot of ad agencies have placed an indefinite ban on affiliate link, as a result of this you can barely get sufficient traffic to your affiliate link. Earning income from internet marketing requires a lot of exposures. As a matter of fact over eighty percent of the people who lands on your site won't buy your product. The rule is 100 unique visitors to one sale. Want to make 5 sales a day, get 500 unique visitors to visit your site on a daily basis.

    4. You need to monitor your traffic. There are many free ad softwares you can install on your site to know where your visitors are coming from, their location, where they go on your site and where they exit. This will give you an idea on what improvement you need to do.

    5. Marketing your site is what you will spend most of your time doing. SEO is what you wouldn't want to miss out, while it takes a while to get your site to the top of the SERP, it surely worth the wait. Article marketing, blogging, forums, list building, PPC are something you should pay attention to.

    Sorry my english is not too polished but i believe you can do well if you apply the above. Making money online might take time depending on the kind of product your are promoting as well as the marketing strategy you are using.

    Best Wishes,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author jesila
    Hi,
    it seems you got a very low attitude you know why? because we need a great attitude for marketing then only we can cross our mile stones. you must be understood what I'm trying to say.........so have a great attitude bye...........


    trafficgeyserseo.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Dital
    Anyone who starts anything new will definitely be frustrated in more than one way.

    Why? Because they don't know how to do it.

    And since you haven't crossed the line into success, you still don't know how to do it.

    Once you have crossed the line and start seeing results, I believe you won't let all the hype get in your way of reaching your goals.

    I also agree, there are scammers out there but not everyone is a scammer - (scammers are also rarely successful)

    Most people who are successful in IM are very hard working and have to deal with no less than anyone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Biggy Fat
    I still can't help but agree with the OP.
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    • Originally Posted by Biggy Fat View Post

      I still can't help but agree with the OP.

      I thought you said a few months back that you were done with internet marketing? I see youre still here
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  • Profile picture of the author kharim
    affiliate marketing is the best way to make money online next to ppc
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian York
    IM is not for everyone. Clearly not for you. You never stuck with a system for long enough so what do you expect?

    Making a lot of money online is possible. I have done it, and so has thousands of other people on this forum. Just because you bought a product that said you could make $X amount of money and you didn't, doesn't necessarily mean that the product was bad or that the author mislead you.

    It took me thousands of wasted dollars and hours before I got the hang of things. But I was committed and was enjoying what I was doing. If IM is not for you, then do something else.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Originally Posted by graemewallis View Post

    All I have to say is that you have to be very careful as to where you spend your money.
    All you need to know, this applies especially for IM newbies:

    There is MORE MONEY MADE by selling people information "how to make money" - the big shots don't make money using their own "systems" BUT SELLING IT. Its a simple fact. Period.

    EVERYONE new to IM must realize this. Look at those known names, look at their products. BE SUSPICIOUS in regards to claims and their "systems".

    Realize what "MARKETING" actually is ---> Its not coming up with a true "miracle system" but instead the art to create value (real one or perceived one) and simply SELL as much as possible.

    Watch your average afternoon home shopping channel and see how ***p is advertised like it's the second coming of Christ. THIS is what marketing is. Its a harsh but true fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrueDepth
    Stop believing them!! Ban yourself from buying anything about making money, and instead go to work making money. Marketers lie. It is a fact. They purposely try to push your emotional buttons. They don't care and will do whatever it takes to make money off of you. They know most people won't raise a fuss and will get so busy with day to day life to get a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marian
      Build up a system, be persistent and focused. You don't have to buy every "hot" thing released each and every day... there's a ton of information on selecting a niche here at WF - free. Learn the principles... they're still the same.

      Marian
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    • Profile picture of the author Biggy Fat
      Originally Posted by TrueDepth View Post

      Stop believing them!! Ban yourself from buying anything about making money, and instead go to work making money. Marketers lie. It is a fact. They purposely try to push your emotional buttons. They don't care and will do whatever it takes to make money off of you. They know most people won't raise a fuss and will get so busy with day to day life to get a refund.
      Haha, Amen to that.

      @Charles Montgomery - Nope, far from done, still kicking it.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEMwinners
    Hecky,
    You are right there's a lot of trickery (and I suspect most "proof of income" captures are of selling the howto rather than the "what"), but so is everywhere. Look at the banks in USA, insurance companies, G&S and The Fed just wiping out your population and other bankers doing the same.
    But whining about it won't stop it and won't help.
    Go read Wallace wattles, Napoleon Hill etc. Hill says: Make lemonade out of lemons.

    And sure, any marketing is often dishonest- does marketer or affiliate really like what they promote? use the drug? the book, the course? Not likely. So if that bothers you don't do it.
    Create info courses of use, or get a job. Often jobs also are doing something we'd rather not or think it is dishonest - if seen on the global scale.

    Go live with Aboriginals. they are probably the only people with clean mind left - the remaining few that the white man has not ruined.

    Imagine if Edison would've given up after 51 tries... or any of the other great minds.
    Work on yourself a bit. Things take time and practice.
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  • Profile picture of the author neo3006
    I can agree with you, but you can't give up, I have spent alot of money that I could have used to repair my house at the time, thank god I got it fixed up, but I agree with everyone take one thing at a time, stay focused on that, and get good at it, its just like learning software when you first start off on it, you have no clue how to do it, i work with autocad, photoshop, illustrator and in design now, need to get better at html, but doesn't mean I give up my dreams and stuff, there are peopel that don't know squat about autocad, but I do, do i consider myself a full time expert, no, but I have a job doing it and can get the job done with my basic skills, I will never give up on this, and yea if I made a 1.00 a day i be happy, it shows your on the right track, after reading this post it made me also realize some things especially what one poster said, hell right now I am just posting bloggs and getting them pinged, and drip feeding them, until the other day as bad as I hate to say this I didn't know what that was, now I do, so I was like cool, I learned something valuable. Nothing is done overnight, it may take me till the end of the year to make a buck, but living and learning what works is what counts. Keep the faith and dont give up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
    There's a common pattern to these kinds of threads and it's no surprise why people fail. They ask questions and then abandon the thread or don't read through the replies they have asked for.

    Look at my post on page 2 of this thread over a week ago, I had already predicted it.

    Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author Hecky
    I have read every post here, and PMed a few people about things. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
    You know what. Internet Marketing is damn hard. Just like ANY business.

    Too many people turn to internet marketing expecting themselves to be able to make a quick buck, without any learning curve, without any prior knowledge. They think all they need to do is buy some book, read it, half ass what was taught in it, and make millions in their sleep.

    Reality check.

    Internet marketing is a business.

    Business takes work.

    Business takes learning. You need to have the entreprenuerial attitude. The I can do this no matter what attitude. The I don't have a boss kicking my backside, but I still have the motivation to do this attitude. The I can do this attitude.

    NOT the attitude you have.

    It isn't a get rich quick method.

    Sure some people come online and do hit it rich quick. But only 5% of IM'er are supposed to be making a single cent online. And of that 5% I'd be surprised if even 1% made it on their first go. This is a business where most fall flat on their face before they even get out of the gates. Most will fall flat on their faces a few more times in the first year, and on it goes. There are then those who actually find a way to work it, and work it well.

    I have been doing IM for 10 years now, and you know what? Last year is the FIRST year I broke 6 figures, and I just barely broke it. But it took 9 years and a whole lot of failure to get to that point.

    This business isn't easy, and it sure as hell isn't for everyone.

    With the attitude you have in this thread, you're not going to make it. Change the attitude, change the outcome.

    Just my two cents.
    Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    This is the metaphorical equivalent of a vegan applying for a job at Mcdonalds
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimian
    Welcome to the world of Internet Marketing...

    Yes, it can cutthroat, deceitful, frustrating, and nasty...

    But it can also be rewarding, challenging at times, SURE,
    but keep learning, keep getting every free program
    available and see with your eyes as well as your MIND. (Insight)

    "You don't have to get it right, you just have to get it going."

    ~ Jim
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    OFFLINE Marketing Strategies For The OFFLINE Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author Hecky
    Alright then, please someone tell me what I've been doing wrong because I just don't get it.

    - I made a website that promotes and amazon product, that costs less than $10.
    - I made several articles to promote this, and submitted them around the place.
    - I did a bit of directory submission as well as social bookmarking etc.
    - I now get about half a dozen hits a day from my targeted keyword in google.
    - I've had about 120 clicks on the amazon ads on my site, and 0 sales.

    And one more thing, I don't understand why the community here is so negative towards these WSO's when it's the community here that makes them?

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author LB
      Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

      Alright then, please someone tell me what I've been doing wrong because I just don't get it.

      - I made a website that promotes and amazon product, that costs less than $10.
      - I made several articles to promote this, and submitted them around the place.
      - I did a bit of directory submission as well as social bookmarking etc.
      - I now get about half a dozen hits a day from my targeted keyword in google.
      - I've had about 120 clicks on the amazon ads on my site, and 0 sales.

      And one more thing, I don't understand why the community here is so negative towards these WSO's when it's the community here that makes them?

      Thanks
      I'll respond to this although I will note that I don't really agree with the method chosen (article marketing and amazon) as being a great strategy.

      I made a website that promotes and amazon product, that costs less than $10.
      Was the website using a proven format designed to convert? Was the product a hot-selling well-reviewed item? Why $10, why not a lot more? Does the marketing your doing match up with what people find on the website when they get there? Is this something people typically order online? How did you choose the product?

      I made several articles to promote this, and submitted them around the place.
      Were the articles written in an easy to read fashion designed to presell the prospect? Do the articles match what you're selling or just have a similar theme? Why articles? Where were they submitted? Why would someone click through from your article and buy a product? Do the articles target "buying phrases" and not just general info?

      I now get about half a dozen hits a day from my targeted keyword in google.
      It's something I guess, but it's an insignificant amount of traffic to judge one way or the other.

      I've had about 120 clicks on the amazon ads on my site, and 0 sales.
      Here's the heart of the issue...you've really had no traffic worth commenting on and beyond that we don't know the quality of your traffic.

      Whenever I promote an affiliate product or create my own I aim for a baseline of 1% conversion. Now marketers doing laser-targeted product launch type promos or using an extremely targetted adwords ad may boast of 10% conversion rates- but the truth is 1% is where most good promos end up.

      If I can't make money at 1% then I typically don't bother with it. Just about any worthy product with some decent traffic should be able to get in the range of 1% or close to it. Less-targeted and cheaper traffic may still make conversion rates as low as a fraction of that worth it as well.

      So, if we assume you are good at what you do (and you're not yet, because you're just getting started) we would want to see if you can hit that 1%.

      So...out of 120 visits IF the offer was good, IF the traffic was good, IF everything was laid out properly you should hopefully be sitting a 1 sale.

      Basically you've played one hand of poker and are complaining you haven't beat the house yet.

      It might also be good time to mention that it comes down to just plain dumb luck. Sometimes you get a huge hit right off the bat that makes thousands of dollars and other times no matter your preparation your ideas will fail.

      I suggest everyone who wants to be successful online should start by building a list of their own and working on a product of their own and not plastering articles around trying to grab some sales.

      Choose a niche and think about what real value you can provide to visitors and you'll be on your road to success.
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    • Profile picture of the author Spot the Ball
      Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

      Alright then, please someone tell me what I've been doing wrong because I just don't get it.

      - I made a website that promotes and amazon product, that costs less than $10.
      - I made several articles to promote this, and submitted them around the place.
      - I did a bit of directory submission as well as social bookmarking etc.
      - I now get about half a dozen hits a day from my targeted keyword in google.
      - I've had about 120 clicks on the amazon ads on my site, and 0 sales.

      And one more thing, I don't understand why the community here is so negative towards these WSO's when it's the community here that makes them?

      Thanks
      Hi Hecky,

      I suspect it has something to do with the way the information is presented, without seeing the articles and your site it is difficult to say.

      What I have noticed myself is when social bookmarking/blog directory sites send me traffic they havent converted.

      When people find my site through organic googling, my products convert.

      I too promote amazon products and get a conversion rate at around 10% so dont give up, target buying keywords (which product names usually are with amazon) and aim for organic searches through various seo methods.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

      Alright then, please someone tell me what I've been doing wrong because I just don't get it.

      - I made a website that promotes and amazon product, that costs less than $10.
      - I made several articles to promote this, and submitted them around the place.
      - I did a bit of directory submission as well as social bookmarking etc.
      - I now get about half a dozen hits a day from my targeted keyword in google.
      - I've had about 120 clicks on the amazon ads on my site, and 0 sales.

      And one more thing, I don't understand why the community here is so negative towards these WSO's when it's the community here that makes them?

      Thanks
      So, you put all this effort into targeting a keyword that gets no traffic in order to promote a product that pays about....what.....70 cents commission? And you aren't rich yet? I'm baffled, I tells ya...baffled....especially with all those clicks. I'm surprised the server didn't melt down.

      What are you doing wrong, you ask? Pretty much everything. The first step in righting the ship is getting refunds for whatever crap products told you to do what you've been doing.

      And by the way, it's not the community here that makes crappy WSOs like the one that apparently taught you to waste time chasing 70 cent commissions, it's individuals within the community. Just because they operate within this community doesn't mean they are above putting out crap, and when they do, they deserve any negativity they get.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrueDepth
    Thank you Hecky for telling the truth! If the people in the WSO's actually made money doing what they are selling, they woudn't be selling it in a WSO. So STOP buying ANY money making crap. Figure out a way to give people what they want/need. (Not crappy ebooks), that is what an entrepreneur does. I can't believe they didn't delete your thread and permanently ban you. Telling the truth about liars on here and messing with people's con games is not welcome here. I am terrified that I am going to be permanently deleted now, for what I just said, but remember karma is a .. and IP addresses are as numerous as the stars in the sky.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    Hecky
    Active Warrior
    War Room Member

    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Posts: 32
    Thanks: 3
    Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts

    Hecky your stats say it all. Stop buying, read the forum, and implement. People like Kern spent years trying to get it right.

    Also, the fact you started out at DP, and then moved here and complained suggest to me that you have issues regarding focus and implementing. Blame and jumping from biz op to biz op is something I really hope you don't do.

    Plenty of people online make ethical money and lots of it.

    Maybe ask yourself why you encountering so many bad products and marketers?

    Surely it ties into chasing the next shiny thing, rather than sticking with one approach?

    In which case - are you chasing get rich quick type stuff - your post suggests it, and I am willing to bet that you purchased a WSO that was about quick cash.

    Combine that with your previous tenure at DP, and extreme newness here, and it is hard not to think that you haven't taken responsibility for yourself, done your due diligence or homework and lack some basic skills and focus.

    Nothing wrong with that, a lot of people in the same boat, but spending your time writing such a negative post smacks of an entitlement/ blame attitude which won't help you get far.

    Good luck in whatever you do after leaving WF (which is what I presume you will do considering the tone of your post), - taking some clear concise steps, some focus and dumping the blame attitude will help you as much if not more than any piece of marketing advice...
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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post


      Plenty of people online make ethical money and lots of it.
      Absolutely.

      Hecky, I can totally empathise with where you're are right now. Any of us who are making it now have been there.

      However, as Steve has said, there are plenty of examples of good people making good money. Which means it is infinitely possible to do.

      Here are two ideas that might help you see a way forward with internet marketing (should you really want to):

      1) Check out the work of Chris Guillebeau | The Art of Non-Conformity to see a great example of how to make money by genuinely providing massive value.

      2) Think about what you've learned and how you can apply it to the knowledge you have in other areas of your life. You might be a good cook or a great lacrosse player. You already have some marketing knowledge. Why not combine those skills? You could find communities of people that you know about and help them.

      Your post reminded me of a quote I heard yesterday:

      'Money flows where attention goes'

      Focus your attention on providing value to people and helping them. The money will follow. Focus too on having money, not on how much you've spent.

      In fact here's one last ('left field') idea: If you can't stand internet marketing and you enjoy talking about how much you can't stand it, why not write a blog about it? You could even create a blog that exposes scammers.

      There are so many ways to make it work for you, should you choose to do so. Choose one method, learn about it, find a mentor and then do that method until it works.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by Matthew Duggan View Post

        In fact here's one last ('left field') idea: If you can't stand internet marketing and you enjoy talking about how much you can't stand it, why not write a blog about it? You could even create a blog that exposes scammers.
        LOL, Matthew!

        Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn

        Nothing wrong with that, a lot of people in the same boat, but spending your time writing such a negative post smacks of an entitlement/ blame attitude which won't help you get far.
        Hecky, while I can empathize with your frustration and disillusionment, I have to agree with Steve's statement about your attitude. You will likely not succeed until that changes - no matter what it is you try to do.

        I also disagree with your statement about everyone here (or in IM in general) "preaching trickery". Sure, there are few who peddle unethical tactics, but that's the minority by far.

        The WF (and IM world in general) is a microcosm of the real world. There are definitely some scammers always trying to sell WSOs. And there are those who aren't, perhaps, blatant scammers but who are sadly peddling rehashed information (with no new value added). But I think the majority are selling products with some value to a lot of value. You just have to find the gems amongst the rest - although I am not suggesting you keep buying WSOs - you will never make money doing that (I know - been there, done that, have the t-shirt!).

        This thread is a perfect example. There have been a lot of people here who have genuinely offered great advice! The WF is full of incredible people who will go out of their way to help you. Some of the most successful warriors here are also the most helpful, and they aren't trying to trick anyone. Granted, there are always a few jerks, but that's life. And, there are some in this thread who've been blunt or even harsh, but yet provided great value in what they said, even if the delivery stung a bit. (Sometimes we all need a swift kick...)

        The other thing that really struck me was that you have this wonderful service to offer (designing logos, if I recall correctly) and yet you are (or were) doing it for ridiculously cheap. That also speaks to your mindset - if you don't value your work no one else will either.

        Someone suggested earlier in this thread that you offer your design services on Elance. While some buyers there are always looking for dirt cheap, many are not, and once you get some good feedback you can raise your prices and pick and choose your buyers. I know this from experience as I offer my writing services there and now charge very high prices (and have regular clients who pay them!).

        As for your current plan (that you listed above)... I'm no expert, but it seems that you won't make much money with that approach, although if you scale it up (ie, create a LOT of websites selling Amazon products...and some preferably selling for more than $10) you might. But you have to get traffic, and if you are writing articles you have to write compelling articles which lead to click throughs.... and so on. And you want to target buying keywords, etc.... All this has been addressed in earlier posts...

        IM is NOT easy.... you do need to eventually build a list to make really good money. So if you "hate" all of that, then you are most likely destined to fail, unfortunately.

        Ultimately, you can succeed at this...but it's up to you. I do commend you for reading through the entire thread as you stated in your post above. Hopefully this will help you realize that there are a lot of really wonderful people here who are willing to help you along the way.

        P.S. Forget the scammers - they don't last long here! (And sorry for such a long post! I type fast and got carried away!)
        Signature
        If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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        • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          LOL, Matthew!
          Glad you enjoyed the idea Cali. I was being (mostly) serious though. There's always a way to make negatives into positive.

          Matt
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Matt,
            I actually thought it was pretty brilliant! It did make me laugh, but I also appreciated the creativity and, agree that there is almost always a way to turn something negative into something positive!
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            If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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  • Profile picture of the author Anita_Tsai
    What you're saying also comfused me,too.However,the world is still there.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Internet Marketing is NOT a get rich quick scheme, those people are writing that copy to get you to spend money. I joined an Internet Education company online in 2007, earned $3K my first month and have increased on that ever since.
    In my opinion, you need a product to sell that is in high demand. You then need a sales funnel that converts, building a big list along the way. Then brand yourself as a leader through the power of Social Media and be able to back up the skills you have spent hours learning. Lastly, get your mind in a good place, failure is NOT an option and find yourself a good mentor.
    Nuff said...I am gonna write a Blog on this topic... :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    Hi Hecky!

    There are a lot of scammers in IM. There are a lot of scammers in real estate, too. But there are tons of people who make really excellent incomes and build wealth through real estate. Ditto for IM. It's good that you're trying out stuff. But frankly 51 clickthroughs is nothing. You need more like 500 to 5000 before you even begin to give up on a site. And you need a lot more exposure to IM before you give up on IM.

    I've also bought plenty of products where the results didn't pan out. Sometimes it was the product, often it was just me. I always learned, however. As I tried lots of different things, I started to put the pieces to the puzzle together. And, now I concentrate on about two types of money making ventures. It took me quite a while to find my niche. But had I not tried lots of stuff that just didn't work, I wouldn't know what I know.

    Don't get discouraged. You might want to use a little more common sense when buying IM products. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Also, if it doesn't sound like a lot of work, it's probably junk.

    Get back in the ring and start swinging again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Gclunis
    I agree with you in the sense that with internet marketing comes alot of scammers and people just trying to trick you out of your money. BUT your saying it as if it only applies to internet marketing. With every aspect of life that can result in some sort of money there are going to be scammers. That is why when you are a child your parents usually try to teach you that not everyone can be trusted. Just because you fell for a few claims and they didn't work out the way you thought it would doesn't mean that the system doesnt work. And it doesnt mean that IM in general doesnt work.

    But here is a quick hint that I have realized in my short time in IM. There are tons of methods out there that are long term and that work. I suggest you pick one and only buy ebooks that are going to improve your ability to succeed in that method. Don't buy random things..that leads to failure.
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  • Profile picture of the author myglobenet
    C'mon buddy dont be so frustrated. I feel the same sometimes. Create space for yourself. Diversify if required.

    Best regards

    Shasi Nair
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Where the heck is Hecky? Remember, he said he was gonna quit, so I assume, he's already out of there!


    edit:

    Oh, I see he was here yesterday. Oops, missed that. Keep on fighting the good fight, Hecky!
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    Just remember that Internet is just a tool.

    and like any other tools, it's not for people that are, well.. tools.

    Losing money is a way to success.
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  • Profile picture of the author topmbtshoes
    i still dont believe internet marketing....
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  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    Attitude aside, could the problem be his site.
    =======================

    Ok, I just backtracked. he said he only had 51 clicks between 5 sites. ouch, not enough to answer my question.

    Does anyone think a good adwords campaign could spice it up?

    I have been reading and a few marketers are recommending a site be setup and then tested with google adwords to see if the site converts.

    Thanks
    Buck
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  • Profile picture of the author Laura B
    I'm afraid I don't have time to read this whole thread, interesting as it sounds, but I did want to comment on a couple of things.

    One, you may not have given it enough time. It can take several months to see any money, especially money that cannot be counted in copper.

    Two, I know you are not saying all Internet marketers are greedy, but I just want to assure you there are lots of us out here who are willing to help others even if there's nothing monetary in it for us. Yes, we're going to use affiliate links when possible, and yes, a lot of us believe wholeheartedly in the products we created or promote so we're going to ... well ... promote them. And sometimes it's hard (at first) to tell the difference between the good guys and the greedy guys. But don't give up hope.

    If you can stick it out and keep analyzing why what you're doing isn't working and changing it, you'll make it eventually!
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  • Profile picture of the author OmarR
    I guess it's about getting the big picture of IM. Then you can create your own plan and stick with it. Once you know the rules, you can break them to fit your own criteria.
    Information overload gets you but after a while everything starts to click. Then you will not depend on more get rich quick scams, because by then you will not need anymore "step by step" instructions, but tools to speed up your plan.
    Time is money, but the first stage is to create some cash flow then scale it up. But I think the mentality that makes us purchase get rich quick schemes is that we can just copy and profit. There is no blueprint everyone has to follow in IM to profit. You make your own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bossman34
    Hecky,

    You need to decide right now whether or not you want to continue with internet marketing. It seems that you have already given up since you "hate" IM so much, but you're still here wondering what you're doing wrong.

    If you are going to quit, do it now and stop wasting your time here. What's the point arguing with people you don't respect about a topic you don't like.

    If you want to give it a chance then you need to do a 180-degree shift with your attitude because, if you don't, you will never be successful.

    The first thing you need to do is start listening to what others in this thread are telling you. You've been told by numerous people that you haven't done nearly enough to determine if your campaign can be successful or not. One campaign, one website, a couple articles, some social bookmarking, and 10 visitors a day isn't nearly enough to claim success or failure and it certainly isn't enough to turn around and rant on about how much you hate IM and what a big scam it is.

    You need to put in some REAL WORK to get some real traffic so you can do some real testing. And NO, you have not done any REAL work. There's a very good chance that your first campaign fails so be ready to accept that if it happens. Very few people are successful in the beginning with ANY business...not just IM.

    Billions of dollars are made each year with internet marketing. Most of that is made outside of the "Make Money Online" niche and without those long letter sales pages, fake testimonials, 20 buy buttons, fake payment screen shots, and outrageous claims that we all see in the internet marketing community. That is all such a SMALL part of the money being made online...don't you understand that?? Your view of internet marketing is completely jacked up.

    Amazon, eBay, Overstock, Best Buy, Target, New Egg, Apple and pretty much every company on the planet market online in one way or the other. Do you think that they are all scams? People make money every day promoting products that these companies sell and they do it in an ethical manner.

    It's completely up to you which methods you use to market products online. Don't like the way some dude on the Warrior Forum markets? Don't do it that way!! There is more than one right way to do things...there is also more than one wrong way.

    The only way you will know what works for you and your market is to bust your a** trying out different things.

    So, you can either accept that you've been looking at this completely the wrong way and change your attitude or you can continue to believe that you have it all figured out and quit.

    Either way, remember this...the next time you purchase something, ANYTHING online that there's a GOOD chance that some internet marketer made money off of you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sydp
      I don't make zillions of dollars from online sales. I do make enough money to make a difference in our lifestyle.

      I understand what you're saying. There's a lot of truth in the maxim 'if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.' And there are unethical people in every segment of every society. So it goes with marketing online.

      There are a few things I would say, which may help you or you may disregard them.

      1) I've never really figured out how to 'rocket to the top' of search engines, and I'm not comfortable with anything that seems dishonest. So, I settle for the slow, steady climb which comes when you build the avenues with a 'real person' mindset. I build a page, write an article, or place a link when it's appropriate with the best 'keyword' optimization I'm capable of (without 'stuffing' or letting things get dumb sounding). Then I forget about it. Because these projects typically do little or nothing (as regards traffic or sales) for a few months.

      2) I was getting discouraged because I would work hard to make a good (article, page, site) and there was no tangible result. That led to me doing other things for several months. Then, one day, I'd log into my Amazon, CJ or other affiliate account and find that I'd made a sale from a (article, site, page) I'd created months before.

      That sale would lead me to build another (page, article, site). Which would, again, do nothing for several months. But I was still making sales from the first thing I did, so I knew that it was a waiting game.

      3) 'No work' or 'easy' is relative. Some people think it's an all day project that requires all of their energy to make an apple pie. I can do it without a recipe and without any mental energy at all. Because I've done it a million times. It's the same with internet marketing. When I first started writing articles aimed at pulling SE traffic, it seemed so tedious and difficult. Now, I barely think about it. Because I put the work in to learn how to do it a while ago. So, it is easy for me to write an article that will rank well in the search engines. That's not a lie at all. I barely need to think about the elements that work. But I guarantee it isn't easy for someone who's not done it before.

      4) Just because something didn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work. I conquered a health condition with a 3 step process that many women will have surgery or meds for. Does that mean my way doesn't work? No. It means my way doesn't work for everyone. I have some opinions on why that is true, which primarily involve people missing the point. If I say 'eat this, don't eat that', the one for whom my system won't work hear 'eat healthier'. Which is not what I said. And just 'eating healthier' doesn't do it, unless by 'healthier', you mean eating this, and not that - which is exactly what I said. So, you say you did what you were instructed to do. And to your mind you did. Try again. Try to do it more exactly as instructed. Try something different that seems more approachable. Something will work. I know that because I make money online.

      5) There are a lot of things I don't do to make money online because they feel dishonest to me. I genuinely don't want anyone buying something that is not of value to them, so I stick to my guns and don't sell stuff I don't believe in and I don't try to sell to everyone, only to those who I believe can benefit from what they buy. You don't have to do everything that everyone else does - you only have to do what you are willing to. You might not make as much money (or you might) but matching a product with a buyer doesn't have to be a dishonest endeavor.

      Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Edk
    Take persoanl responsibility. That's the biggie here. Countless very successful people in IM had bad or teerible or slow starts at the game. take responsibility. Go from there.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    Hecky,

    this business is not cut out for everyone. You have to give it all and stick in this game for a good while, before you really start making good money. Majority that made money faster than others, either gathered up a really good plan of action or got a mentor and followed their advice.

    many have stuck it out, in the IM business for years and made nada, and some still make nada from it. If the pressure is too much and you need dependable income, then get a 9-5 job that guarantees you at least that.

    I agree that majority of the products out there, are re-hashed and full of bull and majority of the sellers care about their bottomline profits, rather than the poor soul that pays their hard-earned cash to... get something together and actually make a buck here n there.

    I also, agree that majority of the people that buy,buy,buy IM products right after another, never really use the information and see if it actually can make 'em a buck.

    If this business is not for you, then don't waste another moment in it. No need to torture yourself and expect things that are not gonna happen. Shift your focus to something else and go after that.

    Cheers,
    Magic!
    Signature

    " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
    To the OP:

    I understand what you're saying and I sympathise with you.

    To be blunt, you're perfectly right about certain things and I also get the impression you have totally the wrong idea about other aspects of making money online.

    First of all - YES - there are a lot of people out there selling rehashed crap. Crappy, rehashed information sold off exaggerated claims or outright lies. Personally I can spot it a mile off and always have from the age of 16 when is when I first took an interest in earning online.

    I must be an internet marketers worst nightmare, because in all the time I've been learning about earning online (and in all the time I *have* been earning online) I've only parted with my cash for an ebook once. That ebook was Perry Marshalls Google Adwords guide. And yes, managed to make a profit using the tecniques Perry Marshall taught in his book, but then I'm sure everyone here knows that Perry is the real deal, etc.

    Beyond that, I found all the information I need from forums, observing how other people work who are already earning money, or just boiling everything down and reverse engineering everything.

    Bottom line is, to make money online you need targetted TRAFFIC and some sort of call to action.

    Whether that be slapping a sales page in front of your visitor, sending them to someone elses sales page with whom you are affiliated, displaying a CPA offer on your website, directing users to a shop which sells a product (Amazon affiliating, etc), or something like Google Adsense which pays per the click.

    If the traffic is targetted and your call to action is proven to be effective, you will make money. Period.

    How much, I don't know. How often, I don't know. It depends on the effectiveness of that call to action, it depends on the amount of traffic you get, and it depends how targetted that traffic is (you can't reach everyone so you have to make sure you're reaching the people most likely to buy or carry out the desired action).

    But I will say this. Approximately 50 clicks across 5 sites is *not* enough to do anything. That's like 10 visits per site, and in most cases a 1% converstion ratio is considered a decent starting point, whic means you'd need ten times the amount of visitors from each site before you could expect to see a conversion.
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  • Profile picture of the author GoingSomewhere
    Hecky,

    You hit the nail on the head with your incisive post.

    But there is a missing link and this is it:

    Success or failure is mindset. Everybody claiming to
    be making money cannot be wrong or lying.

    If you approach internet business religiously, over time you will
    see results. Here is a simple example. If I know
    how to "fix computers" and write a book on "teach yourself
    how to fix computers" I will see people who need that
    information. Right? But I cannot sit back and expect
    miracle. No! I will go to where my prospects are and tell them
    what I have in store for them.

    You may probably be missing something on the traffic side
    of the game or you are targeting keywords that will NEVER
    find your website on the scheme of things.

    Reposition
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  • Profile picture of the author Null-11
    Originally Posted by Hecky View Post

    $100 of investment plus the $47 war room fee, and nada. No result.
    Are you looking for another hobby or are you looking to start a business? I know there are lots of claims out there but the fact is that most people end up investing TONS of time & money before turning a profit. Not everything is smooth sailing and I've never had $2 a day fall in my lap for minimal work no matter what the sales copy claim was.

    Let me just say this: If you give up now you will NEVER make any money online. Just keep pushing forward.

    "When defeat comes, accept it as a signal that your plans are not sound, rebuild those plans, and set sail once more toward your coveted goal."
    Napoleon Hill

    "Before success comes in any man's life, he's sure to meet with much temporary defeat and, perhaps some failures. When defeat overtakes a man, the easiest and the most logical thing to do is to quit. That's exactly what the majority of men do."
    Napoleon Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Hecky,

    You ALREADY have what it takes to be successful online. You have a skillset that most IMers DO NOT have... and that is the ability to create beautiful graphics (isn't that what you said you did over on the DP forum?)

    All you have to do is create a video course that shows others how to create those graphics... and make it step by step.

    Then, once it is complete, set up a WSO on the WSO forum and charge $47 for the course. Offer it ONLY to Warriors to test it out. If it sells well, THEN build a website that has a sales page and also an optin/squeeze page and start building a list of people that want to learn how to make graphics.

    Build a relationship over 5 or 6 emails showing you doing some cool stuff with graphics and then in the last email let them know that you have a complete graphics course available.

    And send them to your sales page.

    Easy.

    Oh - if the product sells for $47 or higher, then you can almost INSTANTLY build a list with PPC marketing and make money with it.

    In fact, if you will video the training course, I'll be happy to pay you for it and sell it myself!

    There - you just made your first big payday :-)

    By the way - there are others here on the forum who would LOVE to get their hands on a course like that... most of them outsource everything to graphics people who are good at it.
    Signature
    "Knowledge is NOT power... ACTION on Knowledge is power"
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    • Profile picture of the author balara
      Most of the contributors to this thread give the excellent advice that one needs to "work" on a project. I'd like to give an example of what I think "work" is. The suggestions below reflect a medium amount of work. If one wants better results them ramp up the ideas below to doing the tasks daily. These tasks are for one site.

      1. Submit a new article 3 times a week

      2. Submit a posting to three social bookmarking sites twice a week.

      3.Create 2 profiles on Link Sites 4 times a week.

      4.Add a post to one social content site 3 times a week.

      These are all free methods. Until one is making money, or has lots of money to spend, or has put some serious study into it, avoid PPC. If you don't get it right, the effect on ones morale (and pocket) can be devastating.

      Veronica
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