Keep an eye out for these sneaky Warriors...

CJ.Online

14 years ago

Hahaha, that's actually really funny. I see people do that all the time!

Thanks
1 reply

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R Hagel 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CJ.Online

Hahaha, that's actually really funny. I see people do that all the time!

It is kind of funny.

****

This post is an illustration of what I'm talking about. See how I posted twice with no one else posting in between? The time stamps are close together, so no big deal.

Now... Had I come back to this thread and posted this reply 24 hours later -- especially since my reply ("it is kind of funny") is just a one liner that doesn't contribute anything useful to the thread -- then you'd have to wonder if I wasn't just bumping my own thread.

***

Anyway, this is just my opinion on something to watch for. Others may disagree.

Cheers,
Becky
- Thanks
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SEOPoints

14 years ago

Originally Posted by R Hagel

But if the time stamps show 12 hours, 24 hours or more between the two posts, then it's time for you to put on your detective hat to see if this person has a habit of bumping his or her own posts using this sneaky trick.

I'll be honest. I don't know that I'd have the patience to do what you're suggesting or that I'd even remember to do that 6 weeks from now. I think there's a limit to what most users on here can realistically be expected to do when it comes to discovering this kind of stuff. It seems there are some uses on here who act as formal moderators who can move/delete posts and threads. They're the ones who probably should keep an eye out for the kind of sneaky stuff you're talking about. They can then ban the user and delete or lock the thread. Also, if good information is being shared in the thread, many people (me included) might not even think to start looking at timestamps and measuring how often (or not) the thread has been pushed back to the top.

Thanks
1 reply

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R Hagel 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SEOPoints

I'll be honest. I don't know that I'd have the patience to do what you're suggesting or that I'd even remember to do that 6 weeks from now.

That's fair enough. However, sometimes these folks do it in a very obvious way -- sometimes several times in one thread.

For example, the thread author will go back to the thread a day or two later to bump (er, I mean reply), and the reply is just a one liner -- "I agree" or "I'm glad my post helped you." More people reply... and the OP does the same thing another couple days later.

In that case, it's pretty easy to spot. If you spot an obvious pattern, you can alert the mods to the post and they can decide what to do with it. (Lock it, delete it, just delete the offending post so the thread falls back into oblivion, ignore your report, etc.)

Cheers,
Becky
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Karan Goel

14 years ago

Hey

If that's in the buy, sell sections (WSO, Sites etc), then it is fine as the post wont be bumped!

If that's in other section, it will hardly make any difference as it's mostly just a general discussion.

Karan

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Ken Leatherman

14 years ago

Speaking of a bump, I found one of those on my head this morning. Not sure where it came from, but my wife said it happened last night.

She then explained that every time I bumped my old thread on the WF, it kept slamming to the top of the Main Discussion.

In order for you other sneaky bumpers to avoid the WF Bump and the headache of doing so you should wear the WF Bumper Hard Hat. ( click here to get yours now @ Becky and Kens WFBHH Store for only $97.00) You will be amazed how you will lose the blurred vision, bleeding from the ears, nose, eyes and other annoying bleed outs from your other orifices

.

But just in case you can't afford the $97.00 there is also a free solution offered for you. Simply bump Becky's and mine threads several times a day. Thus relieving you from the huge headache of finding your own thread and slamming into the main discussion ceiling.

Sorry Becky I couldn't resist.

All kidding aside folks Becky has hit the proverbial nail smack on the head of it. If you are going to bump your own thread at least take the time to make it a useful bump. In other words not an "Thanks Ed, good point" post, but with one that adds value to your own thread.

Ken Leatherman

The Old Geezer

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R Hagel

14 years ago

Karan -- yes, I was just referring to the main section here. I know it makes no difference in the WSO section.

***

Ken -- thanks! That was my first chuckle of the morning.

Thanks

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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

Thanks Becky and Ken, good point!

(Oh wait, I didn't start this thread...)

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jasonmorgan

14 years ago

here's a bump for ya! and +1 to my post count!

there was something like this in the SEO forum yesterday, somebody created a new post, nobody replied and two hours later the original poster replied with 'please comment on this'. So I replied with 'don't beg for comments on your post'. Yeah, I'm a meanie sometimes.

but seriously, what annoys me the most are the garbage replies that people leave in order to push their sig links. I wish signatures were removed completely from the forum, would cut down on the amount of crap being posted and sold.

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derrickp

14 years ago

R Hagel,

I can't believe someone actually took the time to post about this or takes the time to actually investigate it. But good for you anyone who wants to clean up the forum is good in my book.

By explaining this though I think you opened it up to a whole new group of people to use.

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JayXtreme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by derrickp

R Hagel,

I can't believe someone actually took the time to post about this or takes the time to actually investigate it.

No investigation required.. it's a very obvious tactic to seasoned forum members, easy to spot.

R Hagel is simply keeping everyone aware that it is happening on a regular basis.

And for that, I salute her!!

Peace

Jay

p.s. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oderators.html

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derrickp

14 years ago

Yeah if you actually read my full post so did I. Instead you just quoted the first half.

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

No investigation required.. it's a very obvious tactic to seasoned forum members, easy to spot.

R Hagel is simply keeping everyone aware that it is happening on a regular basis.

And for that, I salute her!!

Peace

Jay

p.s. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oderators.html

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SuzanneH

14 years ago

It's also possible that somebody answered one post and then had to run out and do something.

I'm as suspicious as it gets sometimes, but sometimes a reply is just a reply... ;-)

Suzanne

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R Hagel

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Totoy Mola

I'm sorry but what could they benifit from doing that? Counting posts? Oh forgive my dumbness

People do it to keep their threads on top of the forum. As I mentioned, the WF frowns on people bumping their own posts.

Originally Posted by SuzanneH

It's also possible that somebody answered one post and then had to run out and do something.

I'm as suspicious as it gets sometimes, but sometimes a reply is just a reply... ;-)

Suzanne

Indeed, Suzanne. That's why I said to see if it's a pattern.

Cheers,
Becky

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Totoy Mola

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Totoy Mola

I think they have a lot of advertisements on their signatures.. other than that, I don't see any point than counting posts... I've been in this forum for a while but as a guest... I forced to register when one of the WSO's I purchased requires membership.. LOL

You nailed it.

It's not about bumping the thread. It's about bumping the sig under the thread, and creating the illusion of ongoing discussion and interest.

Not to mention the link juice from repeated keyword links. (If you notice, each post has it's own url).

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R Hagel

14 years ago

Yep, you're right Totoy and John.

Sometimes this too is glaringly obvious. That's because the post being bumped repeatedly is directly related to the person's signature.

Now, there's nothing wrong with starting posts or answering threads that are related to your sig. You're probably an expert on the topic, so of course you would do so.

However, as John said, creating the illusion of interest and bringing that thread back up to the top repeatedly is likely to get you a rap on the knuckles with a ruler.

Cheers,
Becky

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

I thought the proper technique was to write individual thank you notes to each person as replies. Of course since I'm busy, I can only do one thank you every 4 hours or so..... wait a minute, I don't have any WSO offers, or even an active link right now, I guess I can just use the Thanks Button.

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pks1967

14 years ago

Originally Posted by R Hagel

So here's what to look for -- if you see the OP has posted twice in a row in a thread (with no other person posting between), look at the time stamps. If the time stamps are close together, it's usually not a problem.

But if the time stamps show 12 hours, 24 hours or more between the two posts, then it's time for you to put on your detective hat to see if this person has a habit of bumping his or her own posts using this sneaky trick.

Becky

Wow, I'm way too busy promoting my websites to do all of that investigative work

, but thanks for letting us know Becky. In the race to make a living, honesty and Integrity sometimes gets lost in the shuffle. I should be working right now, but I do so much like visiting the Warrior forum. This place is great!

Regards,

Brad

Thanks
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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Becky, I usually agree with what you have to say, I think you know that, but I'm not comfortable with your conclusions here at all. If someone replies to one of my threads and I'm not around to answer it or I'm busy working, when I do see they have replied I'm going to answer if I think their post needs or deserves a reply.

If you DON'T reply to them when you have to everyone else, it can look like you're ignoring someone or don't consider them as worthy of a reply as the others. This is especially true for newbies. I would guess that's one of the reasons they are intimidated, they get ignored rather than encouraged.

I started a thread a couple days ago, and I saw last night that someone had brought it back from a few pages deep. I couldn't reply at the time because that cute little dog you see in my avatar was sick, but following your advice I shouldn't reply to the new posts because too much time has passed and I'd be "guilty" of resurrecting my own thread.

So if I reply, it seems I'm setting myself up for judgment; and if I don't, then I'm dismissing everyone who took the time to post to my thread as not worth replying to regardless of the value of their post. I find myself agreeing with Steve Wagenheim here, even if he does ignore all my posts.

I think when you start trying to judge people's intent you're just asking for trouble. And when you try to teach others to judge people's intent, I hope you realize not everyone will reach the same conclusions you might, as the quote below seems to indicate...

Originally Posted by pks1967

Wow, I'm way too busy promoting my websites to do all of that investigative work

, but thanks for letting us know Becky. In the race to make a living, honesty and Integrity sometimes gets lost in the shuffle. I should be working right now, but I do so much like visiting the Warrior forum. This place is great!

Not only does your summation of the practice make it seem like someone is violating some code of conduct when there are no forum rules against delayed replies that I know of, but now a person's honesty and integrity seems to be in question if the reply isn't timely enough.

It's so easy to pass judgments on people, do we really need to start judging intent on something that is not against the rules and is really nothing more than a minor annoyance to some? When people quit replying to the thread it will meet it's fate and sink into the black hole of forgotten posts. Until then, is it really a high crime?

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pks1967 14 years ago

Originally Posted by pks1967
Wow, I'm way too busy promoting my websites to do all of that investigative work , but thanks for letting us know Becky. In the race to make a living, honesty and Integrity sometimes gets lost in the shuffle. I should be working right now, but I do so much like visiting the Warrior forum. This place is great!

--

Dennis,

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. I have been a long time reader of this forum before I joined. There are many, many good and helpful people here. I signed up here to learn more about SEO. Yet here I go blabbing about issues that are none of my concern.

My apologies,

Brad
- Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Anyway, thanks for clearing up your position on this. I agree in theory but don't think it's so easy to identify the culprits and innocents could get caught in the crossfire.

Steve, I think it's kind of like going after the low-hanging fruit when choosing niches or keywords. Some are obvious, some not so much. If we can help identify the obvious ones, we should. If it isn't obvious enough to explain a pattern in a report, let it slide.

It will either disappear eventually or become obvious.

I hope you solve your health issues...

Originally Posted by discrat

I have better things to worry about than being a Warrior Police in this fashion !!

Like posting to tell us how you have better things to do? :rolleyes:

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Nic Lynn

14 years ago

This has been an interesting thread to read (if for nothing else than to proove to myself that I do actually have spare time). Anyway, it brought to mind a related question: what is an appropriate ratio of follow-ups for a topic creator (especially if you are just saying "Yep, that's what I meant," or "thanks" or just generally restating your first post)? Of the 20 posts on this thread (which is a decent amount of discussion), the OP has 6. That's 30% of the posts.

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Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

Becky, I'm usually 100% with you on just about everything you share with
this forum, but on this issue, it's not so cut and dried.

Example:

OP starts a thread on January 1 at 12 noon.

Thread gets 2 replies by 3 PM.

OP replies to them at 3 PM.

OP shuts down PC because OP has to go out. Something comes up and
OP doesn't get back to computer until next day at 6 PM.

In the meantime, one other person replied to the thread at 6 PM the
previous day. It is now 24 hours since and the OP innocently replies
to the last comment because it is his first chance back at the PC.

Do people do what you say? Sure, but sometimes it's not so easy to
tell intent. Because of health problems I have been having lately, I
sometimes am away from this forum for a day or more. Just recently, I
was admitted to emergency with a serious problem.

When I returned here, I replied to a thread I had started where the last
reply was more than 24 hours previous.

Does that mean I am in the category you mentioned?

Well, considering my reply was the length of an article, I would hope not.

But if people just look at the time stamp of the reply in question, they're
going to jump to wrong conclusions.

Sure, if somebody replies "Thanks..." then it's a good bet that the person
was just looking to bump the thread.

What burns my cookies even more is members who respond to old threads,
mine or not, with nothing more than a thanks. I mean for crying out loud,
if you have nothing to add, there is no point thanking a 6 month old
thread. Jay actually brought this up in a recent thread he started.

I agree that we have a lot of shenanigans going on around here, but to
categorically state that everybody who replies to a thread after 24 hours
is trying to game the system is unfair.

You have to also look at the content of the reply and see if anything has
been added to the thread of substance.

Sometimes people just aren't at their PCs 24/7. And as much as I used to
be here a lot, these days that isn't the case.

Bottom line: This has to be taken on a case by case basis and shouldn't
be a blanket ruling.
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Ken Leatherman

14 years ago

I agree that we have a lot of shenanigans going on around here, but to
categorically state that everybody who replies to a thread after 24 hours
is trying to game the system is unfair.

Steven,

Lighten up my friend. Perhaps, you should read the OP again. Becky did not state "categorically" that anyone posting after 24 hours was gaming the system.

Bottom line: This has to be taken on a case by case basis and shouldn't
be a blanket ruling.

I checked to see if she used a blanket to make a ruling, but if she did I don't see it. Just my opinion though.

Ken

The Old Geezer

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Leatherman

Steven,

Lighten up my friend. Perhaps, you should read the OP again. Becky did not state "categorically" that anyone posting after 24 hours was gaming the system.

Ken, I'm cool and not even upset. I just don't want people going on a
witch hunt. Many will take this as written in stone without actually looking
at the thread as a whole and start reporting things that maybe shouldn't
have been reported.

Personally, since I rarely start a thread in Main Discussion I don't really
have a vested interest in this. But I can just imagine people getting
paranoid about responding to their own threads if too much time has
gone by.

So no need for me to lighten up because I'm cool.

** EDIT ** Just checked. Since Jan of this year, have started 6
threads in Main Discussion...most of which I've rarely replied to.

Point is, as I said, I have no vested interest in this. I just don't want
to see some members paranoid to reply to threads and other members
going on a witch hunt. That is my only motivation here.

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R Hagel

14 years ago

Hi Steve,

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

When I returned here, I replied to a thread I had started where the last
reply was more than 24 hours previous.

I don't see a problem with that.

I agree that we have a lot of shenanigans going on around here, but to
categorically state that everybody who replies to a thread after 24 hours
is trying to game the system is unfair.

I never said that. In fact, I mentioned specifically -- more than once -- that we need to look for a pattern.

Here's what I said in my OP (relevant parts emphasized):

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Here and there I'm seeing some Warriors who think they're being clever by bumping their threads back to the top, repeatedly, using a little trick. Here's how it works...

<snip>

But if the time stamps show 12 hours, 24 hours or more between the two posts, then it's time for you to put on your detective hat to see if this person has a habit of bumping his or her own posts using this sneaky trick.

If you look at my reply to Suzanne, you'll see that there too I reiterated that we're looking for patterns here.

(And btw -- this isn't a pattern of people coming back to a thread 24 hours or days after someone else replied to a post. It's a pattern of the OP coming back to his or her own post and replying, even though no one else is replying.)

Bottom line: This has to be taken on a case by case basis and shouldn't
be a blanket ruling.

Not my forum so I can't make a blanket ruling.

But, if you re-read my OP and some other replies, you'll see that we are in agreement on this point. That is, we need to look for PATTERNS.

And trust me, when you see a pattern, it will be extremely obvious to you.

***

pks1967,

Wow, I'm way too busy promoting my websites to do all of that investigative work

The unpaid super mods are pretty busy too. That's why it's a good idea to help out when you can.

***
Nic Lynn,

Anyway, it brought to mind a related question: what is an appropriate ratio of follow-ups for a topic creator (especially if you are just saying "Yep, that's what I meant," or "thanks" or just generally restating your first post)?

I have no idea.

cheers,
Becky

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by R Hagel

If you look at my reply to Suzanne, you'll see that there too I reiterated that we're looking for patterns here.

(And btw -- this isn't a pattern of people coming back to a thread 24 hours or days after someone else replied to a post. It's a pattern of the OP coming back to his or her own post and replying, even though no one else is replying.)

Not my forum so I can't make a blanket ruling.

But, if you re-read my OP and some other replies, you'll see that we are in agreement on this point. That is, we need to look for PATTERNS.

Thanks for clearing that up. My concern, as I stated, is two-fold.

1. Members afraid to respond to their own threads.
2. Members going on witch hunts.

I've seen both happen at other forums and just trying to put this all
in perspective in order to avoid any overreactions.

Unfortunately, not all patterns are obvious. There are some devilishly
clever people here who use two accounts or more to keep a thread going.

So in order to identify them, you'd have to track who is replying to what
threads started by some warriors and even that is not fool proof because
there are some members here who deliberately follow other members
because they enjoy reading their posts.

(we all do have our groupies you know.)

I just don't want to see this get out of control and getting legit threads
sent to the land where nobody returns.

Anyway, thanks for clearing up your position on this. I agree in theory but
don't think it's so easy to identify the culprits and innocents could get
caught in the crossfire.

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R Hagel 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Thanks for clearing that up. My concern, as I stated, is two-fold.

1. Members afraid to respond to their own threads.
2. Members going on witch hunts.

Sure, there's always the danger of that.

It's like the one-liner thing. We have to use our judgment when we see people going on a one-liner rampage. Because those one-liner rampages are frowned on, there too we have the danger of people afraid to use one liners and other members going on witch hunts.

Fortunately, though, we're not in charge of running the asylum. We just have the task of "observing and reporting."

If we get it right, great -- the super mods will handle it. But if we members go on witch hunts, the super mods will throw us out on our ear.

So I think it works out in the end.

Cheers,
Becky
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- Bill Farnham 14 years ago
  
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pks1967 14 years ago

Originally Posted by R Hagel

pks1967,

The unpaid super mods are pretty busy too. That's why it's a good idea to help out when you can.

Yes, of course you are right about that Becky. I have been running my own forum for a couple of years (not IM related). I don't have any mods besides myself and it's a lot to keep up with. Of course a forum this size, I'm sure, requires many moderators. I only have around 400 members.

On second thought: Since I don't post WSOs, this thread is really none of my business, and I shouldn't have butted in to it in the first place. Sorry about that.

Brad
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discrat

14 years ago

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Folks here on the WF tend to frown on people who repeatedly bump their own posts to bring them back up to the top. That's why "follow me" and similar threads tend to have a short lifespan.

Here and there I'm seeing some Warriors who think they're being clever by bumping their threads back to the top, repeatedly, using a little trick. Here's how it works...

***

The original poster starts the thread.

A Warrior posts to the thread (this is reply #1).

Another Warrior comes in and posts reply #2.

Yet another Warrior comes in and posts reply #3.

The original poster (OP) replies to reply #1 and reply #2.

Then the OP waits -- maybe about 24 hours.

If no other Warrior bumps the thread, the OP goes back and replies to Reply #2 -- thus pushing the post back to the top, "innocently," because he's answering the people in his thread.

Of course he could have just answered that particular post when he was answering everyone else's. Why wait? Perhaps to bump the post back up, hmmmm?

****

The above example is simplistic. Usually there are a lot of replies and conversation going back and forth.

So here's what to look for -- if you see the OP has posted twice in a row in a thread (with no other person posting between), look at the time stamps. If the time stamps are close together, it's usually not a problem.

But if the time stamps show 12 hours, 24 hours or more between the two posts, then it's time for you to put on your detective hat to see if this person has a habit of bumping his or her own posts using this sneaky trick.

Becky

I have better things to worry about than being a Warrior Police in this fashion !!

[ 1 ] Thanks

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R Hagel

14 years ago

Hi Dennis (and everyone else who might be scratching their heads),

I can see now that I didn't make my original post or subsequent replies very clear, and that's my fault for not communicating very well.

So let's see if I can try to clear it up once more in my reply to you:

If someone replies to one of my threads and I'm not around to answer it or I'm busy working, when I do see they have replied I'm going to answer if I think their post needs or deserves a reply.

As I said to Steve, I don't see any problem with that. Someone replies to your post, you go back and answer it whenever you can. Nothing wrong with that.

I started a thread a couple days ago, and I saw last night that someone had brought it back from a few pages deep. I couldn't reply at the time because that cute little dog you see in my avatar was sick...

Sorry to hear that. I hope the little guy/gal is better now.

...but following your advice I shouldn't reply to the new posts because too much time has passed and I'd be "guilty" of resurrecting my own thread.

No, that's not what I was saying. And again, I'm sorry that I didn't make my post more clear.

What I am talking about are people who bump their own posts -- repeatedly -- even though no one else is replying to the thread.

Also, the primary point I've tried to make clear throughout this discussion is that we're looking for PATTERNS of behavior.

So let me give you an example. Instead of a back and forth discussion like this thread, a thread starts looking like this:

---

Post 1. OP
Post 2. Reply from Warrior 1
Post 3. Reply from Warrior 2
Post 4. Reply from Warrior 3
Post 5. OP replies to Warrior 1.

Hours or days pass. No one else replies to the post.

6. OP replies to Warrior 2.

Hours or days pass. Still no one else replies to the post.

7. OP replies to Warrior 3.

---

See what's happening? As John M. said, the original poster is creating an illusion that the thread is popular. And the original poster is repeatedly bumping his own thread... even though no one else is replying to it.

Again -- it's not just the time that has elapsed, it's the fact that no one else is replying to the thread, yet the OP keeps the thread on top by replyin to it, repeatedly.

Repeatedly also being a key word, because we're looking for patterns. As I've mentioned in this thread and others have reiterated, it really is blindingly obvious when you see it.

***

I hope that makes it a little more clear.

To anyone who is wondering about this -- it will be like a smack between the eyes when you see it. It really is that obvious.

And finally -- I'm not trying to make a rule or anything like that. This isn't my forum -- so this thread is just my opinion.

Cheers,
Becky

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

@ Becky - A lot of time had passed from when I started writing my reply and when I finished it because I had to tend to our dog, who is still sick, and I see a lot of replies had been posted in the mean time. I didn't have the advantage of seeing your clarifications and others' comments when I finished my post. So, I'll concede to your points with one exception, I still think it's asking for trouble to judge someone's intentions. We all do that, of course, because it's part of survival, but to pass those judgments publicly is asking for trouble, IMHO.

@ pks1967 - No problems, you should post if you have something to say. I didn't really want to single you out, but your comment was the best one to use to help make the point I wanted to make. You have as much right to speak your mind as I do or anyone else does, and I'd never want you to feel you shouldn't because of something I said.

Thanks

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