Clickbank's new 'Order' Page. Please Don't do this!

46 replies


Granted that they may be just split testing it.

But are you kidding me? Screaming out a 'refund guarantee' for the major part of the page?

The only thing interestin about this page is if you click that HUGE 'safe and secure' button, you see something like this:

"On an average day, ClickBank processes more than 20,000 orders from more than 200 countries around the world."

They have effectively mentioned the refund policy three times on this page itself. Not to mention that a buyer has already seen the same on our pitch page as well.

Now let's peek inside a mind of a buyer:

1) Buyer goes through our pitch page and sees a 60 day refund guarantee, so he's comfortable.
2) On the order page, the buyer sees not once, not twice, but thrice, in clean n clear words that he can get a full refund in 60 days.
3) Buyer thinks, hmmm... these guys want to give me a refund. So, i'll just buy and then ask for a refund. Maybe they'll pat my back for doing so.

Your thoughts?
#clickbank #order #page
  • Profile picture of the author ruch1v
    My guess is it's to lower chargebacks, the more that people know they can get a refund, the less likely they are to chargeback, which is good for you too

    p.s I like Chandigarh, good city
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  • Profile picture of the author jorgesil
    Hi

    This is like ordering the buyer: ASK FOR A REFUND NOW

    Jorge
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Sorry, I disagree. Although CB has a bad reputation amongst vendors, due to the serial refunders who prey on CB vendors, this is still good marketing.

      CB buyers are not just the nasty pack of serial refunders, but also a large number of insecure first-time buyers of info products online. By re-iterating the refund policy on the order page, CB is increasing buyer confidence - and that will get you more sales. Nothing wrong with that.

      IMO it will not increase refunds, as those are done by an element of bottomfeeders who already know the system.
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      • Profile picture of the author jecalvert
        I agree with Kevin. I fully believe that most people once they order something won't return the product. Why bother with the process. However, there is an overwhelming number of people who are scared witless to use their credit card online. CB's new order page can only help reassure people that they are not going to get ripped off. If they refund it...well that's the cost of doing business.

        I used to work at at retail store that sold camping gear. We had a customer return a set of cook pans that were clearly used beyond measure. They had actually gone on a 3 month trip to Nepal. But we returned the product because that was the guarantee.

        Some people are losers, but most are just afraid to buy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
      Originally Posted by jorgesil View Post

      Hi

      This is like ordering the buyer: ASK FOR A REFUND NOW

      Jorge
      Though the idea is to lower charge backs the method is all wrong...Im in psychology and I know that recency has an effect on people and if people keep seeing the same msg on 3 pages they are more apt to ask for a refund when they finish the report etc....
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  • Profile picture of the author freelikehell
    @ruch1v - That's an interesting thought. I've sold a LOT of products on CB, but the chargeback rate has been pretty low. But, I know it varies from market to market.

    Yea Chandigarh is awesome. City Beautiful! Where are you located?
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshuaWriter
    I split tested this "exact" same thing I and got a 50% higher conversion on my order page and NO i didn't get more refunds. Great poducts that offer a GREAT service to their customers dont have to worry about this. Remeber, the majority reason why people dont buy online is because they are scared of getting scammed. Refund policies put them at ease.
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    • Profile picture of the author hariklia
      Originally Posted by JoshuaWriter View Post

      I split tested this "exact" same thing I and got a 50% higher conversion on my order page and NO i didn't get more refunds. Great poducts that offer a GREAT service to their customers dont have to worry about this. Remeber, the majority reason why people dont buy online is because they are scared of getting scammed. Refund policies put them at ease.
      Totaly agree, the reinforcement of refund policy helps put buyers mind at rest. Genuine buyers of course. And if they are not genuine they will ask for refund weather you give them one or ten chances.
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  • Profile picture of the author ruch1v
    Does clickbank not do anything about serial refunders?

    I'm from the UK but am Indian

    Ruchi
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  • Profile picture of the author freelikehell
    @ Kevin - True that a MAJOR part of the 20,000 sales/day will be new buyers. We all know CB is monitoring the current order page's stats with the previous one and at the end of this test, they would obviously finalize that order page which converted the best.
    Because Clickbank makes money only when vendors make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author freelikehell
    @Ruchi - I'm not too sure about this, but I have heard a speculation that Clickbank blocks future orders from serial refunders after a stipulated number of refunds. Don't take my word on it though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    I think it would help to reduce checkout page abandonment and chargebacks. However, I think it should definitely be re-worded. Starting out the sentence with "Just ask for a refund..." is not smart IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    As an affiliate, I get several order page impressions for each sale that I make. I know that many of them come from people who end up buying the product a few days later, but I'm sure that a good number of visitors give up and never purchase the product. Maybe this new idea can increase the number of sales...

    Also, I know that we have many serial refunders in the IM niche, but it doesn't change anything. They are "professional refunders", so when they buy a product they know that's possible to ask for a refund a few days later, and sometimes they do it even before using the product. So I don't think that it would increase the number of refunds more than the number of sales.


    William
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  • Profile picture of the author freelikehell
    I agree with Ron. There is something 'very' striking about the refund explanation on the order page. Possibly rewording will do the trick.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      People that are looking for a legitimate refund, are not going to look on the order page for it anyway. If anything, this will secure more sales.

      If someone later wants a refund, I don't believe that they are going to think about clicking through to the order page to find refund information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Skribblez
    I think it would've been better if they atleast mentioned something like, "If you are not satisfied with the product..." and THEN mention the "ask for a refund" bit, instead of just straightout saying "ask for a refund".

    Just my opinion. We'll see how this new order page pans out in the end.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    My general sense is that this won't have a major impact on refunds, for sellers of quality products.

    If refund rates get too high, and it seems as though it's due to CBs new focus on their refund policy, then there is always the possibility of selling through other channels.

    All in all, it's a good idea, but a bit of re-wording wouldn't hurt either.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Katie Wang
    It is sort of ridiculously large isn't it. Kind of makes the page uglier more than anything else. But I sort of think although it seems like it's pushing people to get a refund lol... it's more for giving them a peace of mind and probably increases conversions. Most people don't know how to get a refund if the vendor doesn't respond to their request.. so maybe this way they'll try to go through CB instead for one.

    If your product is good you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Those that were going to get a refund will get one anyway, no matter what.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Wheras I agree that reiterating the guarantee is a good thing, there are a number of things I don't like about this:

    1. They have a button underneath the Guarantee that is bound to distract attention from the Payment Button, potentially confusing prospects and losing sales.

    2. I do NOT like the wording of the Guarantee. As someone said above, it virtually tells people to ask for a refund.

    I'll keep a close eye on things and see how conversions go. It could be enough to finally push me away from Clickbank.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    C'mon...that looks Photoshopped!

    This has to be fake. Clickbank wouldn't pump out something that ugly would they?
    It looks like a friggin' 2004 graphic from a "500 graphics bonus set"! lol...
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  • Profile picture of the author johnpetrov
    The order-page reverted to normal. I don't see the guarantee anymore.
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    • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
      Originally Posted by BlueSquares View Post

      C'mon...that looks Photoshopped!

      This has to be fake. Clickbank wouldn't pump out something that ugly would they?
      It looks like a friggin' 2004 graphic from a "500 graphics bonus set"! lol...
      Nope - not Photoshopped - I tested one of my own links and it was there!

      Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    I find the better the guarantee is the less refunds there are.
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    • Profile picture of the author NMP
      Feeling is, if you post something like that in a marketing
      forum you get one side of it. While it feels like a test
      more. If a product is good a refund ad is not bad.

      Consider most CB products are worthless I can see
      why many marketers do in their pants.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave147
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by jorgesil View Post

      This is like ordering the buyer: ASK FOR A REFUND NOW
      Or maybe . . . PURCHASE NOW ?


      Originally Posted by ruch1v View Post

      Does clickbank not do anything about serial refunders?
      See
      Return and Cancellation Policy - ClickBank

      Abuse of the Return Policy:

      Customers requesting serial or repeated returns may be blocked from making further purchases.

      Originally Posted by johnpetrov View Post

      The order-page reverted to normal. I don't see the guarantee anymore.
      ClickBank run their split tests for an hour or two and monitor the results.
      With over 1000 sales per hour this provides sufficient data. In this
      case they would need to see how the conversion rate improves and then
      wait to see any increase in refunds.

      What is far more important is that ClickBank do not make the
      guarantee obvious in the NOTIFICATION sent to the customer.
      There has been a misconception that this was so in the past
      but it was the vendor who received the instruction on how
      to refund.


      Harvey



      .
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      • Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        See
        Return and Cancellation Policy - ClickBank

        Abuse of the Return Policy:

        Customers requesting serial or repeated returns may be blocked from making further purchases.
        Yeah, that's all good and dandy, but the truth is that Clickbank does effectively nothing to lock serial refunders out. How do I know? because I have a number of products in one specific niche (6 to be exact), and there's one particular guy from Singapore who purchases every single product I release, and then he processes a refund few days later. EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT I RELEASE! (again, 6 products so far).

        And I am sure he does the same with other products from other vendors in the same niche. So, clearly Clickbank doesnt quite enforce their own rules as far as serial refunders go.

        Serial refunders is one of the reasons I left clickbank: they would completely mess up my tracking statistics so it was hard to gauge the unique value per customer, and therefore my estimated PPC budget per click, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Totoy Mola
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author theimdude
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun Lee
    We never know, the results might surprise you.

    That's why people split-test, to get even better results. If it's costing sales, then it won't last for long. But what if it increases the number of sales? I got a lot of Order Form Impressions but a much lower number of Order Form Submits.

    So kudos to ClickBank for finally taking action to do some split-testing on their order form page. They are really testing a lot of stuff - the layout, the guarantee, etc.

    -Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Oh!

    Another "new" look:



    (Bad PS )

    They really are split-testing...
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  • Personally, I have tested refunds/wording/etc...

    And yes, while it is good to put a buyer's mind at "ease", you can make the mistake of basically saying "Order the product, then request a refund, and get the product for free!".

    Personally this particular refund does seem to come across a bit that way... If someone does track their own stats, it would be interesting to see if their refund rate does increase and/or if they get an equivalent increase in sales...
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  • Profile picture of the author jaysteven84
    I hope this will not be implemented at least at the moment I can't see this in order page.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    free loading asswipes will have a hay day with that.
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  • Originally Posted by freelikehell View Post

    "On an average day, ClickBank processes more than 20,000 orders from more than 200 countries around the world."
    Interesting, since there are only 195 countries in this planet... or do they also accept orders from Uranus? wow Clickbank is growing like hell!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    They're split testing a total of 4 variations.

    If you want to view these variations live, change the "cbgpg=4" in the URL to: cbgpg=1, cbgpg=2, cbgpg=3 or cbgpg=4.

    The screenshots of all 4 variations are below.








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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Hmm - I guess we're mucking up their split-testing since we're all taking a look and not ordering!

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    wow

    "just ask for a refund and you'll get every penny back".

    this is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE wording.

    They literally encourage people to do refunds that way. There should be a reason for a refund, and a refund should always be the LAST OPTION but not the "kicking headline" for making a sale in the first place.

    "Just ask for a refund..." <-- clickbank change this, its horrible!
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingSPY
    Wow - I had no idea CLICBANK added the super Guarantee on the order page. That may be WHY our clickbank sales recently have gone through the roof. There is nothing like giving your customers peace of mind with their order.

    Thanks ClickBank!
    Happy Trails.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Sometimes intuition is not the best judge of these things hence the
    necessity of testing. Only the results would prove whether this is
    a good strategy or not, even though I don't like the 'command' mode
    of the refund policy. It's almost like they are demanding that you
    ask for a refund.

    Well, the result will settle all discussions.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Mattaym
      Nah, I think it won't matter much.

      A lot of people buy things thinking, "Hm, if I don't like it, I can just refund it easily!"

      But even if they like it just a bit, they'll keep the product, and probably eventually forget to get that refund. They figure it'll be too much work and just forget about it.

      But I think in the end, if they're going to refund, they'll do it regardless of the wording. That's why I try to promote products that I think will actually help the person.
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  • Profile picture of the author danbcaut
    A strong and well positioned refund policy will ALWAYS increase sales. I am speaking from 11 years of online marketing experience - not from theory or opinion.

    I'm with Riley - a certain percentage of buyers will ask for a refund by default. Might as well account for those people in your business plan.

    But based on a no-nonsense no-questions 60 day guarantee on all digital goods I sell ... my refund rate has been consistently less than 1% for over a decade.
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  • Profile picture of the author freelikehell
    ... And they're back to where they started from!
    The CB order page now looks exactly like it did before.
    Let's see if they have any more designs in mind (Its interesting to see all those concepts)
    Gives us a good idea to ALWAYS SPLIT TEST.

    I always follow my rule: My website can never attain the perfect conversion rate.
    So, I test and test until I reach as close to perfection as I can... or I just grow tired of split testing and let it be
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb D Miller
    IMO it's a good thing CB is doing here. I'm sure they've tested the crap out of it and know what they're doing.

    Remember they're doing this to make money as well, they don't want refunds anymore than we do.
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    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      This really isn't complicated at all if you think rationally.

      The question you need to ask about this kind of thing is very simple:

      Is the INCREASE IN SALES BIGGER THAN THE INCREASE IN REFUNDS?

      If the increase in sales is greater, then it is worth doing.

      It is easy to get emotionally caught up in this kind of thing, the numbers are all that matter.
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