Illegal: Free Stuff to Collect Email Addresses for Undisclosed Sales Pitches

Thanks for letting us all know. I wasn't aware of it at all. So has this rule been in force for a long time? I haven't seen anyone do any kind of disclaimers.

lol?

What about IF I just want to do all that and beyond BUT I state I never intended to do any of it?

How the heck someone can prove me wrong?

.....


So many laws I can't understand WHILE so many stuff needs new laws and they don't show up...

Brian,

Thanks for the heads up. Any suggestions on the best way to present free offers? Disclosure on the sign up page or maybe the first email?

Thanks,

John

Within the next few years half the content on our squeeze and salespages will be a disclaimer, lol.

And the best part, there's no black and white - most of these regulations are fuzzy enough where they can nail you if they want to no matter what you do.

What really erks me is that on television in the US you can have ACTORS pretending to have used and benefited from the product without any disclaimer whatsoever (and no "average user experiences X results" or "these are actors and have not used the product"...amazing.)

I'm not changing a thing. I appreciate that you took the time to post this, but it's like a sodomy law from 1880. I'm gonna break this one with impunity and they can come after me if they want. Something tells me it'll never happen. I might worry if I was Frank Kern, but otherwise....

PFFFT!!!

Have you ever seen anyone complain about getting caught out for the law mentioned in the OP? Me either. There's a lot to worry about in any business, but you have to pick your battles. I worry about this about as much as I worry about going 70 in a 65 MPH zone.

Not to high-jack your thread... but I had someone with an irs.gov email address join my mailing list today... should I be worried? : /

I guess it wouldn't be that hard to include it in the fine print along with all the new ftc guidelines.

I agree with what Scott said. Before long we are going to have to save room on half of our page just for disclaimers. LOL!

I guess you have to follow the rules or starve!

I'm wondering if it's someone checking on FTC guidelines because I imagine there's a lot of issues with the penis enlargement niche.

How is a judgment collected against a webmaster who lives in Singapore?

Brian, how do you feel about including the disclaimer in full on the optin page versus linking to a disclaimer page?

Is it not getting to the point where if the full disclaimer were to be included on the optin page it would be impractical? (considering that this is not the only thing a disclaimer should include)

Here's a random situation:

Assume your website is AdClickTips.com. The home page is a squeeze page to get an email address with a promise that in return a person will receive a free report about how to increase their Adsense CTR.

Of course, there are no terms and conditions on the website. Right off the bat the owner of this site may be screwed if a complaint or legal issue arises. They have obviously not read my Webmaster's Legal Guide.

There is at least a privacy policy. It says on some pages personal information is collected to order products. Like the Adsense report. Sounds fine.

Then it says "We use the information you provide about yourself when placing an order only to complete that order."

An "order" does not require a monetary payment. Orders can be free. Like ordering the Adsense report in return for providing an email address (which is the only thing that can be ordered).

So, what if (because this is not true but only to illustrate an issue) the owner of this site decides they want to send unrelated emails to their list to try and get some affiliate commissions? As mentioned in this thread - promoting male enlargement products.

Now there is a possible legal problem. The promise and representation was provide an email address and in return get Adsense tips. But now the person is receiving male enhancement emails. Or they're getting pimped IM affiliate offers weekly, etc.

They could just opt-out. But we all know some people complain and try to cause trouble.

There is a possible fall-back as the privacy policy does state this:

"Finally, we never use or share the personally identifiable information provided to us online in ways unrelated to the ones described above without also providing you an opportunity to opt-out or otherwise prohibit such unrelated uses. "

Several problems though:

1. This contradicts the earlier provision saying personal information would not be used for unrelated purposes.

2. Once a person receives a pitch for something unrelated to Adsense tips, that male enhancement product, it may be too late to offer an opt-out. The ad has already been received, even though the person thought they were only going to get some Adsense tips.

3. People won't read the privacy policy because the email signup form already says per the privacy policy email is safe and secure. What is not being disclosed is the problem. Would a person signup if in addition to Adsense tips they knew they would also be getting other stuff?

4. If this is used to justify sending unrelated follow-up emails then it looks deceptive. This term being buried, contradicting other terms. Especially when many of the other privacy terms are iffy such as ordering a gift from the site when actually no products are available for sale from the site.

Which then begs one to look at the Adsense Tips report. Again, no terms or disclaimers. And the issue arises about whether it is FTC compliant ....

I give things away as gifts as an offer for you to sign up to my list with the purpose and intent of creating a relationship.

Michael,

A relationship to do what exactlly?

I don't think that'll wash in CA

Honestly, you can single me out because I poo-poo'ed your OP - as you did - and I truly am ok with that. Know why? Because I don't have the slightest concern that some lawyer from CA (AG's office, whatever) is going to contact me and even threaten to sue, let alone actually pull the trigger. I get it. You're a lawyer and you know this stuff. You are undoubtedly correct on the merits of your point. I'm just not gonna lose any sleep worrying that someone who gets on my Adsense list by downloading my free report is going to complain and start this ball rolling. I'll worry when I'm Frank Kern. Period. The end. But again, and I mean this sincerely, thank you for alerting us all to this.

John

I really don't see how one State in the United States can enforce anything to do with the Interntet unless the person breaking their law lived in their State. If I have a site on the World Wide Web and I live here in Washington and you live in California, and you come to my website, how am I responsible for whatever the law in your State or Country Says? Unless its Federal Law, or the law in the State I live in, who cares...

Here's a simple rule: Abide by the laws of your own country. If you are in Singapore (for example), then only Singapore has legal authority over you, and it is under no obligation whatsoever to relinquish that authority to anybody else. Anyone who wishes to take legal action against you will have to do so in a Singaporean Court in accordance with Singaporean law.

Couple of questions/comments and playing devils advocate.

1. It could even be considered spam by most hosts, isps, etc if it doesn't say they will be receiving other items.

2. As Bryan said, money doesn't have to change place for it to be a sale. Couldn't be a barter and make the law mute? Depending on the verbiage of the page. ie Give your email in exchange for my report.

3. My website is my store front. Which is in my state - not Cali. I would have an attorney fight Cali over jurisdiction.

4. Cali is a prime example of how things go to **** when ran by liberal, tree hugging hippies.

I added the verbiage years ago because of spam. Besides... why not be upfront? Scared?

Garrie

I live in California and all I can say is that the state is bankrupt and will use any means to get money from anyone they think they can. The Crooks running this state use any legal method they can. It doesn't matter how big you are if you get on their radar unless you are one of the politicaly protected groups.

James

Great, Thanks for letting us know and give the solution....

Just my two worthless two cents on the subject. I am far from a lawyer

There are so many laws in so many Countries, States and even counties with-in those states and countries, We would have to spend thousands if not millions to know every law that you must abide by to do business in all of those countries.

I do business in one place... online. Now my business the DBA has to be registered within my county in my state of residence.

To my knowledge a person in Michigan is not subject to the laws of California unless they are in California. Wouldn't it make sense to state in your "disclosure statement or what ever you want to call it... that they are conducting business with-in your State and are only subject to those laws of that state for conducting business. ?

Now you could go as far as even including the way technology works and all of that but at the end of the day the money or product creation deployment came from... Your residence.

Some people may not like that approach for obvious reasons (retail state tax laws). and if it really came down to it I would goto court only under the laws of my country and state.

Some people states and other entities have argued that all business that takes place online is subject to Virgina law because that is where all the primary dot com DNS dB is located. other claim it is where your physical server is located... others say it takes place on the screen of the computer in which the visitor is at....

I consider my server/hosting company to be like a fulfillment center fro mailing out my goods and offers. the DNS is simply another fulfillment contract, the screen / computer.

Regarding because the person is in California... is irrelevant. But I really do think you would have to state that your website and offerings are a product from a business in your State / country not their place of residence.

My internet business is not international it is local, my internet business accepts international visitors (occasionally) travelers checks are not accepted.

The daft thing about this is that all of these legal regulators fail to address that the internet is a global forum.

There are probably thousands of 'little laws' like this in individual states, provinces, districts and let alone countries and states throughout the world. Everywhere your page is seen has different set of trading laws and require different disclosures and limitations.

So, how are individuals going to be aware of these thousands of laws?

Then the disclaimer page would be massive. "If you are resident in BF, Egypt you should be aware of the following..." "If you are a resident of Delaware, you are not allowed to ...." If you are a resident of Detroit....move" And so on for thousands and thousands of local laws

Seems to me that it is an impossible task to be legal everywhere you page is viewable. So to get excited about one such law is like a drop in the ocean.

I have to tell you. Companies like publishers clearing house, etc... have, in their fine print, NO VALID in .... and EXCEPT for... and .... gets .... Ever wonder WHY!?!?!? It is to COMPLY with the LAW! HECK, Lincoln insurance has a little nothing office in NEW YORK! I asked one of the people there WHY! They said an insurance company has to have a PHYSICAL presence there to do business in the state! And THAT is why Amazon is changing their affiliate relationships.

Like it or not, each state IS different. HECK, I don't know about NOW, but not too long ago some states wouldn't allow turning right on red! So you could get a ticket in one state for doing what another says you can do. And in indiana it is against the law to operate a vehicle without an indiana license for more than a month after becoming a resident.

Heck I worked for several companies that changed a LOT of things primarily because of a CALIFORNIA law. NONE were based in california, and I don't think any had a physical presence there.

Steve

I still think this is mostly a lot of hand wringing over something barely worth even thinking about. Unless you do something really egregious to spark the ire of someone with the time and means to push it, I think at worst you'd be faced with a demand to change your practices to comply. If this ever makes my list of things to change my practices over, I'll count myself glad to have that kind of time on my hands. People sign up to my list to get a free report. I'm then going to send them related information and the occasional link to buy something that I have created myself or have used and can recommend. If California or any other state has a problem with that, what a sad shame. I'm willing to risk it because I know that my relationship with my list is solid and nothing I offer them will ever be less than a great value. There are so many things out there that are legitimate concerns and actually worth getting anxious about. This ain't one of them. Sorry.

John

Well, brainless zombies and such aside, it probably made sense in CA at the time to protect people from undisclosed sales pitches who thought that the * insert free item here* (flat screen TV, DVD player, cookware, car) was actually something they were entitled to merely because they were invited to show up at a physical location. Imagine the audacity of the company requiring them to sit through a sales pitch and request personal information from them before they got something for nothing! In the physical world, sleazy sales tactics and dumb/oblivious consumers were definitely behind this.

But now fast-forward to the virtual world...same law applies. Or does it? Maybe or maybe not, or maybe not yet, but,

frankly, I for one would like to take up residency in California long enough to turn over my now-abandoned email accounts with several thousand affiliate marketing double-opt-in emails in them to the AG. I did initially request info, and I would like to hear from the creator of the newsletter on their specific subject. I just didn't request 5 emails a week on Other People's info, even though I am now a sitting target for any and every sales pitch and irrelevant email in the universe by virtue of the double opt-in. Where do we draw the line?

Sure, some of the threads on the WF complain of the explosion of non-related affiliate marketing spam in our in-boxes. These emails, which reach us through opt-in lists, have staunch defenders, but even they seem to be fewer in number as time goes on and the problem gets bigger. You can recognize those posts by their opening line, usually along the lines of, "how dare a marketer send me a marketing email on blank when all I wanted was the freebie, blah blah."

So take it all for what it is. Above all, make sure that you protect your livelihood.

After someone joined my list I got the idea to pitch them a product.

I can't figure out where it has been amended from your interpretation? Could you point out specifically where ... the language is so broad and I don't know what contexts you are referring too?

Maybe this is why facebook is so strict about 'landing pages' asking to collect information from viewers.