Some stuff I've learned about outsourcing

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Hi everyone,

Over the last few months I've been hiring my own employees to work directly for me either full time or part time and I wanted to share a few of the things that I have them doing and some lessons learned.

1) I'm hiring people from the Philippines and the average full time cost is about $300 per month. This means that the price for a day's work is very low and doing anything mechanical yourself is purely silly unless you are REALLY tapped for funds. You should start hiring people the moment that you possibly can.

2) Forum commenting, blog commenting, article writing and submitting, social bookmarking and social networking are all very SIMPLE things that you can train your outsourcers to do for you on a daily basis. Building mini-nets is another great way to invest their time and your money.

3) Focus on hiring people who have excellent ENGLISH skills, and worry about everything else later, unless you have specific needs that do not fit my description. Filipinos have great English skills, overall. It's not easy to find a perfect english writer, but it's easy to find people good enough to do basic article marketing under a pen name (for backlinks, etc).

4) Use video tools to create training for your people. Jing is free and awesomely easy to use. Show people what you want done, and have them repeat it.

5) Get your outsourcers to send you a daily email to explain what they did, how long it took, what problems they ran into (if any) and how you can help them.

6) Treat them with respect and treat them as you wish to be treated. Enough said. They are not robots.

7) Measure your progress.

8) Build up your team slowly, by reinvesting the proceeds from your projects.

9) Avoid having work done by one person and passed off to another for completion. For example it is better to have ONE person write an article and submit it rather than having it passed off. Wasted time equals less work done. Hire several people and have them trained on everything in time.

10) PayPal is working well in the Philippines now. It's an easy way to pay people. XOOM is also great if you live in the USA (they won't accept foreign credit cards anymore).
#main internet marketing discussion forum #learned #outsourcing #stuff
  • that is good stuff.

    my experience with outsourcing has been touch and go, most problems boiling dsown to operator error (me)

    overall it is awesome way to multiply your own efforts and move forward at lightning speeds.

    where do you prefer to locate OS people from? i use odesk but they do not do paypal for payments so that is a nuisance
    • [2] replies
    • ausslite - I'm doing all of my hiring these days at OnlineJobs.ph which is run by John Jonas from Replacemyself.com

      I bit the bullet and took his "pro outsourcer" package for $697 so I get perpetual access to the site (and other stuff) for no monthly fees ever. I'm very happy I did that instead of the $97/month option, or separately, paying $50/month for OnlineJobs access.
    • A few other comments:

      - I completely agree with innocent07's #11 addition. Some guys just stop working and disappear. I had this happen two weeks ago. A part time girl. She was doing a great job and then vanished. She hasn't updated her personal blog since she disappeared. I just hope she's OK. But she's gone and I have to replace her now.

      - I VERY much like hiring from OnlineJobs.ph and I wrote a blog posting about this (see my sig file for the link) about how I'm using video to filter out crap candidates from real candidates. It saves me time and really works well so far. In a nutshell the process is to define what you want, and record a quick vid so the candidates can watch it and THEN have them apply. Lazy and unqualified guys won't apply as often.

      - It can be a REAL challenge to get great english writing skills from the Philippines, and American writers are definitely going to give you a better hit rate. So decide what the purpose of the articles is. If you want them for resource box backlinks, accept the less than perfect writer at a fraction of the cost. If you need click throughs and awesome content, then focus on getting an amazing writer even if it costs more in America.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
  • Thanks for the sharing. Outsoucing the right way really saves our time for its best use.
  • Hey Chris, thank you for taking the time to help others who do not understand the importance of outsourcing. Internet Marketing is a REAL full time job for many and most beginners do not understand the amount of work involved. I myself have about four or five people I outsource my work to. Most are in Asia, YET for my articles, I have said it once and will say it again, I stay domestic (as in the USA). Not only is this guaranteeing that I have a native English speaker/writer, but I am also helping out fellow Americans, who are also looking to make ends meet. Writing is an ART not everyone can handle and I respect that, even if it costs more. I have had enough bad experiences with non-native speakers who have done such a terrible job, I end up hiring someone else to either re-write the article or write a whole new one. This process ends up costing me much more.

    So, I agree with you in just about everything except the place you are outsourcing to. Of course if you have had great results, that is great! But I rather do that part the way I have been doing it... : )
  • But of course to hire someone to do a task, and to show them how to do it, one must know how to do it him/herself.

    Therein lies the rub.

    Sooo many are still trying to figure that out, and the game keeps changing making it a moving target.

    I have been quite frustrated trying to get tasks completely well, on time and on budget - primarily using oDesk.

    regards,
    PCRoger.
  • Nice post. I haven't had the best success in finding outsourcers in the Philippines. Where have you gone to find your employees?
    • [1] reply
    • You can try easyoutsource.com. This is a fairly new outsourcing site where the job seekers are all Filipinos. You can sign up and post a job for free, go through the usual interview process for applicants, and choose the best one that suits your needs. HTH!
  • That is exactly what I do and I'm glad you've figured out the outsourcing code. The only way to truly grow your business is to hire people and spend the time to train them properly.

    LM
  • Banned
    11) Accept if some workers Stop working for you, due to personal problems and simply move on to new ones- which can be hard, but just accept this as it happens!
  • Outsourcing can be tough, but if you get the right people on board then it can make things a lot easier for your business.
  • I did get some good ideas from the freebie ebook at massoutsource.com.

    John Jonas seems to have it together, but he makes it sound easier to get good employees and English writers in the PI than some posters above indicate.

    Did not know he was in charge of onlinejobs.ph.

    PCRoger.
  • Great post - thanks for sharing. I'm reconsidering my original plan to eventually hire people from oDesk to manage some of my website stuff. It sounds like you've got a better option there.
  • Great stuff Chris, you really explained this well. I just posted a job on Odesk (for SEM/linkbuilding) and I'm already getting tons of submissions. I really like that you mentioned
    as I thought this would be a good indicator of a quality candidate as well.

    Again, thanks for the detailed post - this helps me a bunch!
  • Banned
    Outsourcing has it pros and cons. Many got positive feedback as well as negative outcome. The Philippines is one of the world's most popular outsourcing destinations with some distinct advantages over other outsourcing countries.

    Staff leasing is now the easiest way to do your stuffs. You need to be careful in finding the right company or person. You should ask for their references and samples of work. Credibility is the first thing you need to know. We are in this industry for almost 5 years now and we have been working with different clients all over the word and we have handled various projects. We are leasing 180- 250 staffs now and most of them are working full time.
    • [1] reply
    • oDesk.com... simply EPIC!

      Treat your staff like gold, they write your paycheque.
  • "Forum commenting, blog commenting, article writing and submitting, social bookmarking and social networking are all very SIMPLE things that you can train your outsourcers to do for you on a daily basis. Building mini-nets is another great way to invest their time and your money."

    Can you get a good article writer for $300? Is this the salary or all expenses included (space, broadband charges, electricity etc). How many hours of work do they do per month?

    We are an outsourcing company in India but the rates which you had mentioned are competitive, compared to hiring an employee in India. Thinking of starting a company in Philipines or SriLanka now..
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks for the insight guys. Going to outsourcing soon and this will help!
  • I would also add that all outsourcers must run Rescue Time (Time Management, Productivity, & Project Tracking Software (Mac/PC) | RescueTime) during their shift.

    This program tell you exactly what's on the foreground of your outsourcers screen. So if they spend 3 hours of their shift on Facebook when they should be blog commenting... you'll know.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • awesome resource James!

      I'm definitely going to start using that for myself and for my outsourced workers.

      Thanks again.

      Shannon Herod
      • [1] reply
  • Hi Chris,

    Thanks for sharing your successes with outsourcing. I read the "4 minute work week" while on holiday last month and it's great to hear from someone who is really putting all that stuff into practice and so much more. Well done and very inspiring for everyone to read. Look forward to hearing more in the future
  • I'm Matt, one of the builders of a jobs site for hiring Filipino workers. It's easyoutsource.com -- it's free and it's awesome. We have about 500 really good workers on there now and not a whole lot of employers, so if you go and post a job you'll get a good selection from lots of qualified people.

    My suggestion:
    1. post a job,
    2. reject the candidates that are obviously at lower end of the applicant pool,
    3. message the candidates that look pretty good, ask them a couple open ended questions to see hwo they respond,
    4. interview a couple that you think look great
    5. hire 1 or 2 for a short term paid trial period. let them understand that if you're impressed they'll have a job, and if it doesn't go well you'll keep looking.
  • Martin - I'm jealous ...I really wanted to get to Boracay for that adventure with John and the gang. Couldn't swing the time. What else did you learn from the event?
  • Was a good read though. Thanks
  • Cool post! And such a great additional too. . Thanks for sharing this ideas. It was a helpful tips for a newbie like me.
    • [1] reply
    • Hey Chris,

      Great to see the lessons you've learnt from hiring people in the Philippines. They are awesome people and I highly respect them. I have a few Filipino friends who I see weekly in Australia here and their culture is consistent across the globe, which is why I also am glad to have them on my team. I just wanted to add one other thing as well to your list:

      12) Use a system to allow them work together, either a project management system such as ActiveCollab or Google Docs.

      13) Use RescueTime to monitor productivity levels and keep track of their work. (thanks @James Foster)

      14) Ensure they take time off when Philippines holidays come around and make sure you know when they are too. This lets them take a break.

      15) Compliment and PRAISE them for their efforts daily.
  • Tyrone - are you MAKING all of your guys use RescueTime or are you only asking them to do so if you suspect they aren't give you full effort?

    The reason I ask is that I have been hesitant to ask anyone to do this since I suspect it would make them feel micro-managed.

    With my guys, all I really care is that they are doing stuff (output) that comes close to matching what I expect out of the hours they claim to be putting in. And of course the bottom line is "do they make me money?"

    Interested in your thoughts.
  • Point 6 is very important to me. Treat them right and good and they will
    work even better. Happy workers just do better. If they do a really good
    job I usually give them a some nice bonus money which motivates them
    even more.
  • I'm definately starting to contemplate outsourcing now, IM is taking too much time nowadays, I've always been slightly hesitant though due the the learning curve they would have to endure, this thread has inspired me to look into it again though
  • Great tips...

    One more thing I'd like to expand upon with the "treat them with respect."

    Make sure that your people "know" you and understand why what they're doing for you is important.

    I like to teach my assistant internet marketing while he's working so he develops the logic and instincts to know what I want done.

    This has helped make my outsourcing experience a lot better and more enjoyable

    Cheers,

    Brad
  • Chris, this is a fantastic summary on outsourcing! You definitely touched on all the major points.

    On #4, you mentioned using videos. We found a upgrade to the video training that works like a charm. It's called: TeamViewer - Free Remote Access and Remote Desktop Sharing over the Internet

    Teamviewer provides access to any remote computer via Internet, which simply means once you connect and the other party connects, its just like you are sitting in front of their computer or vice-a-versa.

    You can even put multiple users on and the beauty of it all... unless you are a power user; IT's F-R-E-E!



    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • [DELETED]
  • Hey Chris,

    It seems you've found something people still are struggling with.

    It always surprises me with something like this - outsourcing is really simple and the number of good sites to source people from is amazing.

    There's nothing to it and with just a little common-sense anyone should be able to get good work done for their business.

    The things you've said are generally the same things that I and others are saying about the subject and should be logical for anyone to see.

    For some reason people seem to make this stuff more complicated that it is and make a big deal out of it, but it's actually MUCH simpler than hiring a normal staff member for an offline business.

    I've a few people let me down over the years but they were mostly programmers and I now have a way to avoid that and always get what I want first time from programming jobs I outsource.

    The normal administration tasks should be easily done by anyone even with no experience of outsourcing.

    All you have to do is train them well, treat them well and pay them well, and you get anything you want.

    When it comes to people letting you down or being ill etc... that's the reason you should have a team of people that have overlapping skills, so if one is ill or disappears - your business doesn't suffer. Also if you hire people that can find others to do the same work, you can just get your team to replace the person who stopped. This is easy and if you put one of them in charge of the others your business really can run while you're not there or ill yourself.

    Andy
    • [1] reply
    • This got the most of my attention of anything in the thread. Care to share? or not it it's a future wso or something.

      Just what do you do to get that result?

      best wishes, lloyd
      .......__o
      .......\<,
      ....( )/ ( )...
      • [1] reply
  • Cool posts guys.

    As an outsourcer myself I would agree with everything that's been said above.

    Props.
  • Outsourcing is great and I personally utilize oDesk myself.

    You covered a very good point about setting up a system. I personally record videos showing the exact way I want something done. When I hire a new person, they go though orientation training and learn how to do the job. The allows me to quickly fill positions and make replacements without having to do a lot of hand holding.
  • Outsourcing is really a good way to delegate tasks that are time-consuming and can be done by someone else at a lower cost. It's all about hiring the right person to do the task for you.
  • Hi guys

    my tip is that when you hire outsourcers hire more on a part time basis for different jobs and the work levels are so much higher for example i have an assistant just for social bookmarking, one just for submitting articles and so on.

    I get quality staff for 56cent an hour but you have to be patient with your staff as they are not as experienced as you are.

    kind regards


    sam
    X
  • This thread is a good read.

    My question to follow-up is about data security. Do any of you have concerns about giving out your user ids and passwords? How do you manage data security with someone you have never met and potentially have no references for?
  • Brilliant advices guys!

    I love reading threads like this one. But have a question about hiring people, if English is my second language.

    What can you recommend for me?
    • [1] reply
    • If English is your second language, i recommend you hire Filipinos. Filipinos are very patient and as English is their second language as well, they will not judge you. You will be very comfortable hiring a Filipino. Check my sig for a great place to hire Filipino freelancers. HTH!
  • I agree everything in your great post except the above. It's hard to find an inexpensive writer who can write with personality AND handle a variety of technical skills. For me, it's a rare combination of talents to find, and if you do, you will be paying more for the combo.

    Instead, I have one person write the articles, and another handle the posting into client's Wordpress websites for publication. Inevitably, I pay more for good writing, and a lot less for tech work.

    And regarding the ups and downs of relying on outsourcers. I've learned to always have backups. I used Odesk and if I find I'm down to one person, I find two more who can help me.

    For people who are intimidated by the hiring process, get started with Odesk. Watch their support videos (short and to the point), and setup a job. You can make it private meaning it won't be seen. When you are ready, you can make it a public job posting, or keep it private, and invite select individuals.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • What a great Thread. I have just started to outsource some work, but as its the first week I can't give you any feedback. What I can say is this, I don't use credit cards and didn't realise that Odesk required that as a payment.
    I picked out one of the applicants and asked him if we could move away from Odesk as I prefer to use paypal. He accepted this, so don't be put of if you don't have a credit card.
  • Hi Chris,

    I see you started your own outsource thread. This is good as I know A LOT of warriors are still misguided when it comes to outsourcing to the philippines.

    Well, I would generally agree to what you wrote in your post. I do have a lot more to share and i dont know where to start.

    So here's something on top of my head:

    1.) For best results, get your connections up and running. It is always better to have a manager to have everything done and monitored for you. This is far easier for me as im in PH (but believe me, I had a hard time starting out).

    2.) The brightest and cheapest ARTICLE WRITERS are not it bestjobs.ph or odesk. They are your fresh college grads. I hired a friend's friend who was a cum laude. She wrote for me for three months at $350 then increased to $400/month on the 3rd month. And do note, she's a lot brighter than I am in terms of logic. LOL

    3.) Get the best automation tools and let them use it. I have 3 people working for me right now and they are using SEnuke, AMA, UAW and Traffic Geyser (Check my sig)

    With everything said and done, youll end up doubling their work instead of them doing manual.

    Again, this are just what's on top of my head. If you need anything, please reply and ill try to help out as much as i could.

    Hope this helps a lot of warriors.

    All the best,
    -Yan Kirby
  • Yan - I'm REALLY tempted to give UAW a shot. Are you able to educate me a bit on how well it works? Is it something you've been able to measure or at least get a really solid feeling for? I understand the concept ... no duplicate content, and massive penetration of articles on many many sites. Just wondering if it's worth the time spent. It looks good. John Jonas recommends it also.
    • [1] reply
    • Chris,

      Compared to AMA, I get better results when using UAW. This has been the case for a lot niches that I tried entering. Dont get it the wrong way, AMA is really good especially when it comes to long term backlinks as I still get links from articles I submitted almost 2 months ago.

      Give UAW a shot. Its a bit pricey but I highly recommend using it.

      All the best,
      -Yan Kirby

  • Great post Chris. Thank you for sharing.
  • Chris,

    Thanks for the info... I have heard from many people that hiring people in the Phillipines is the best bet! Where do you go to find these people?
    • [1] reply
    • You can try easyoutsource.com. We have a wide pool of Filipino online freelancers. You can register at the site and post a job for free. HTH!
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