Offline Can Be a Killer

59 replies
.... Yes.

Offline Market Can Be a Killer.

A killer of your own brain, efforts and good willing.

Read on:

A couple weeks ago we started a IM campaign to dominate the rankings for a big city (name) real estate. Huge market. Lot's of real estate agencies in the market, fighting each other. Great place to life. Lot's of money to be made.

Now, 3 weeks later we're starting to dominate top stops for "city name real estate", "buy apartment in city name" or "buy villa in city name", etc etc.

All the good keywords are getting hammered by our new network of sites. Traffic is increasing everyday and visitors come to us after searching different "buy" keywords.

All good!!!

So, this morning we had our first meeting. We had chosen one of the biggest real estate agencies in town to get it going.

Guess what:

They don't EVEN care about Google, rankings, traffic, leads... cause they have annual advertising in a real estate directory - where you need to search inside for a particular city - one damn directory that ranks bellow one of our sites and it's complicated as a old mule.

Ouch. I am freaked out. Are they just plain ignorant or I am losing my skills to talk people to a objective that will make them much richer at the end of the year?

Damn!!

Guess it's time to open a real estate agency in their city and take them out of business, huh?



Your thoughts?
#killer #offline
  • Profile picture of the author Pragun
    Meh... you just knocked at the wrong door.
    A lot of people have this stubborn approach towards the internet and well, i think it's gonna turn around and kick them in their butts on their own time.
    What I'd suggest you to do is, rather than going to someone that's already making a lot of money, go to an agency that's not making a lot and could benefit from some extra sales.

    Tell them that you can bring them extra leads, and would do that on a commission basis. Can't hurt to try, can it ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Pragun View Post

      Meh... you just knocked at the wrong door.
      A lot of people have this stubborn approach towards the internet and well, i think it's gonna turn around and kick them in their butts on their own time.
      What I'd suggest you to do is, rather than going to someone that's already making a lot of money, go to an agency that's not making a lot and could benefit from some extra sales.

      Tell them that you can bring them extra leads, and would do that on a commission basis. Can't hurt to try, can it ?
      Hey Pragun,

      We have appointments with 50-70% of them next 2 weeks and we'll see what happens.

      Hopefully 2 or 3 will see the light.

      Fact is: they ALL are losing money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Pragun
        Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

        Hey Pragun,

        We have appointments with 50-70% of them next 2 weeks and we'll see what happens.

        Hopefully 2 or 3 will see the light.

        Fact is: they ALL are losing money.

        WOW !

        In that case, they're making a big mistake by passing out on this opportunity !

        There's another thing that you could do.

        Instead of going to these people and talking to them about Google and stuff, hide the machinery and show them what the result is.

        Tell them that you're also into real estate, and your business is concerned with finding leads for other agents. Tell them that you could bring them those leads, provided they pay you a commission for every lead that converts.

        Maybe that'll get you some better results !
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        • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
          Originally Posted by Pragun View Post

          WOW !

          In that case, they're making a big mistake by passing out on this opportunity !

          There's another thing that you could do.

          Instead of going to these people and talking to them about Google and stuff, hide the machinery and show them what the result is.

          Tell them that you're also into real estate, and your business is concerned with finding leads for other agents. Tell them that you could bring them those leads, provided they pay you a commission for every lead that converts.

          Maybe that'll get you some better results !
          That was our approach BUT when they saw a live example using Google they went on to "ohhh we have advertising in there too" lolol.
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  • Profile picture of the author theemperor
    As a general point .... is it not possible to sell the campaign before starting it? E.g. charge someone a fixed fee for the SEO work then do it? Then you do the work knowing you'll be paid.

    Anyhow ... an alternative idea if you can't sell this is to set up a real estate site and charge people who want to sell their house directly without an agent, perhaps for $100 an ad.

    Once you get some success stories and testimonials you can put the per-ad fee right up to whatever you think you can get away with.

    The same agency that turned you away may be paying you $100s per ad to put their most premium properties on your site

    Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

    .... Yes.

    Offline Market Can Be a Killer.

    A killer of your own brain, efforts and good willing.

    Read on:

    A couple weeks ago we started a IM campaign to dominate the rankings for a big city (name) real estate. Huge market. Lot's of real estate agencies in the market, fighting each other. Great place to life. Lot's of money to be made.

    Now, 3 weeks later we're starting to dominate top stops for "city name real estate", "buy apartment in city name" or "buy villa in city name", etc etc.

    All the good keywords are getting hammered by our new network of sites. Traffic is increasing everyday and visitors come to us after searching different "buy" keywords.

    All good!!!

    So, this morning we had our first meeting. We had chosen one of the biggest real estate agencies in town to get it going.

    Guess what:

    They don't EVEN care about Google, rankings, traffic, leads... cause they have annual advertising in a real estate directory - where you need to search inside for a particular city - one damn directory that ranks bellow one of our sites and it's complicated as a old mule.

    Ouch. I am freaked out. Are they just plain ignorant or I am losing my skills to talk people to a objective that will make them much richer at the end of the year?

    Damn!!

    Guess it's time to open a real estate agency in their city and take them out of business, huh?



    Your thoughts?
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by theemperor View Post

      As a general point .... is it not possible to sell the campaign before starting it? E.g. charge someone a fixed fee for the SEO work then do it? Then you do the work knowing you'll be paid.

      Anyhow ... an alternative idea if you can't sell this is to set up a real estate site and charge people who want to sell their house directly without an agent, perhaps for $100 an ad.

      Once you get some success stories and testimonials you can put the per-ad fee right up to whatever you think you can get away with.

      The same agency that turned you away may be paying you $100s per ad to put their most premium properties on your site
      Basically what we are looking for is a partnership with ONE of them. Long term relationship, with good commissions. But who knows? That would be funny.

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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    Fernando,

    It's not that "offline" is difficult. The thing you've run into is that your approach is a bit of a gamble. It's low-risk, because there are good odds that another company will take you up on your offer, but there are no guarantees.

    Selling pre-made sites is a tiny slice of the offline world.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Kelly Verge View Post

      Fernando,

      It's not that "offline" is difficult. The thing you've run into is that your approach is a bit of a gamble. It's low-risk, because there are good odds that another company will take you up on your offer, but there are no guarantees.

      Selling pre-made sites is a tiny slice of the offline world.
      Hey Kelly,

      We're not selling websites: we're setting things up for selling them the right leads and getting commissions on each sale. That's why we just want to partner with one of them.

      There is no point in selling a website when we can make money with it for years.



      Oh and all the work we get from there: seo, marketing, yadda yadda yadda.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

        We're not selling websites: we're setting things up for selling them the right leads and getting commissions on each sale. That's why we just want to partner with one of them.
        Hi Fernando,

        It's a good thing you are trying to do this in Europe, in the US this would be illegal. Only licensed brokers and agents can participate in the commissions.

        Just for grins, have checked the laws there?

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
          Just move on and forget about it. What they don't realize is this isn't the 1980's anymore.

          Once one of their competitors takes you up on your offer and begins kicking ass, the company that turned you down will probably come back to you to ask what you can do for them.
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            Why would you care if ONE real estate agent is too dumb to see the value of your service?

            There should be plenty more in the same area.

            One other thing you may want to consider.

            It's usually easier to talk to the business owners first before you do any kind of work...get to know them and what they want from their business then make customized suggestions.

            That will make it easier to convert prospects into paying clients and you can charge more for customized solutions...even though they may be very similar to what you would have done anyway.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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        • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Hi Fernando,

          It's a good thing you are trying to do this in Europe, in the US this would be illegal. Only licensed brokers and agents can participate in the commissions.

          Just for grins, have checked the laws there?

          ~Bill
          Hey Bill,

          No, didn't check it yet, but will do it later today along the meeting.

          Thanks for the heads up!!

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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Fernando, is the big website you're talking about the MLS?
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets View Post

      Fernando, is the big website you're talking about the MLS?
      Hey Lisa, I doubt, cause the other one starts with a S. and it's a Portuguese one.

      But I can tell you it's a pain just get to "your search". 2-4 clicks to get there in the best of chances.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaysmyne
    Chances are you just spoke to the wrong real estate agent. In the offline business you are going to get some acceptance and some rejection. It really just depends.
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  • Profile picture of the author czilbersher
    Your real estate clients are right, of course. Why in the world should they give a cr@p about Google, SEO, pagerank or anything to do with IM. If I were them, I wouldn't. I would only care about making more money at the end of the day. Oh, you're saying that your IM efforts will translate into more $$$. Great! Show me! Quantify it; spell it out. Assume for a moment that I don't know (or care) about things like backlinks, SERPs and SEO. Help me care by translating this into sales (and please use language I understand). Your situation is vaguely reminiscent of a recent experience I had with my hosting provider: 200 of my domains suddenly became inaccessible and I was fuming. All I cared about was having my sites back up and online so that I could continue making money. Their IT Support team kept emailing me every hour or so to tell me that they were running this script or commenting out that line of code or altering the Apache permissions, or some other technical jargon bull$#$%. "Yes" I said, "That's great! Are my sites back up?" They'd reply: "Well no, but we're seeing that you're getting a large number of script calls from IP 67.191.blah.blah.blah." "Well, that's awesome! Are my sites back up?" "Not yet, but we see that some of your plug-ins may not be coded correctly and aren't closing their requests". "Well, that's just friggin' awesome! Are my sites back up????!!!!" <rinse repeat, ad nauseum>

    The point being, local businesses don't know diddly-squat about what we do. Your FIRST responsibility as a potential service provider is to provide EDUCATION. Period. Here's a good basic outline when speaking with your potential customers: 1) "I have listened and learned about your business and here is my understanding of what you do and how you do it today. 2) Here is my understanding of your 'pain points', or how you would like things to be in the ideal world; 3) Here is what I do as an Internet Marketer, and here's how what I do can transform your business from point #1 to point #2 above. 4) Here is how you will know what I do is working for your business; here is how you can quantify it; 5) Here are the risks/benefits you will see when moving from step 1 to step 2, and here is how we can mitigate the risk while maximizing the benefit.

    I believe if you can make the steps I've outlined above so clear and simple that your grandfather could understand it, you'll then have a winning presentation.

    Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author theemperor
      Originally Posted by czilbersher View Post

      Your real estate clients are right, of course. Why in the world should they give a cr@p about Google, SEO, pagerank or anything to do with IM. If I were them, I wouldn't. I would only care about making more money at the end of the day. Oh, you're saying that your IM efforts will translate into more $$$. Great! Show me! Quantify it; spell it out. Assume for a moment that I don't know (or care) about things like backlinks, SERPs and SEO. Help me care by translating this into sales (and please use language I understand). Your situation is vaguely reminiscent of a recent experience I had with my hosting provider: 200 of my domains suddenly became inaccessible and I was fuming. All I cared about was having my sites back up and online so that I could continue making money. Their IT Support team kept emailing me every hour or so to tell me that they were running this script or commenting out that line of code or altering the Apache permissions, or some other technical jargon bull$#$%. "Yes" I said, "That's great! Are my sites back up?" They'd reply: "Well no, but we're seeing that you're getting a large number of script calls from IP 67.191.blah.blah.blah." "Well, that's awesome! Are my sites back up?" "Not yet, but we see that some of your plug-ins may not be coded correctly and aren't closing their requests". "Well, that's just friggin' awesome! Are my sites back up????!!!!" <rinse repeat, ad nauseum>

      The point being, local businesses don't know diddly-squat about what we do. Your FIRST responsibility as a potential service provider is to provide EDUCATION. Period. Here's a good basic outline when speaking with your potential customers: 1) "I have listened and learned about your business and here is my understanding of what you do and how you do it today. 2) Here is my understanding of your 'pain points', or how you would like things to be in the ideal world; 3) Here is what I do as an Internet Marketer, and here's how what I do can transform your business from point #1 to point #2 above. 4) Here is how you will know what I do is working for your business; here is how you can quantify it; 5) Here are the risks/benefits you will see when moving from step 1 to step 2, and here is how we can mitigate the risk while maximizing the benefit.

      I believe if you can make the steps I've outlined above so clear and simple that your grandfather could understand it, you'll then have a winning presentation.

      Good luck!
      God I am sure the hosting loved you as a customer :p .... was it a $10 a month job. If so what do you expect?

      But your point is spot on you need to talk in the customers language especially PRE-SALES
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      • Profile picture of the author Dhira
        Originally Posted by czilbersher View Post

        Your real estate clients are right, of course. Why in the world should they give a cr@p about Google, SEO, pagerank or anything to do with IM. If I were them, I wouldn't. I would only care about making more money at the end of the day. Oh, you're saying that your IM efforts will translate into more $$$. Great! Show me! Quantify it; spell it out. Assume for a moment that I don't know (or care) about things like backlinks, SERPs and SEO. Help me care by translating this into sales (and please use language I understand). Your situation is vaguely reminiscent of a recent experience I had with my hosting provider: 200 of my domains suddenly became inaccessible and I was fuming. All I cared about was having my sites back up and online so that I could continue making money. Their IT Support team kept emailing me every hour or so to tell me that they were running this script or commenting out that line of code or altering the Apache permissions, or some other technical jargon bull$#$%. "Yes" I said, "That's great! Are my sites back up?" They'd reply: "Well no, but we're seeing that you're getting a large number of script calls from IP 67.191.blah.blah.blah." "Well, that's awesome! Are my sites back up?" "Not yet, but we see that some of your plug-ins may not be coded correctly and aren't closing their requests". "Well, that's just friggin' awesome! Are my sites back up????!!!!" <rinse repeat, ad nauseum>

        The point being, local businesses don't know diddly-squat about what we do. Your FIRST responsibility as a potential service provider is to provide EDUCATION. Period. Here's a good basic outline when speaking with your potential customers: 1) "I have listened and learned about your business and here is my understanding of what you do and how you do it today. 2) Here is my understanding of your 'pain points', or how you would like things to be in the ideal world; 3) Here is what I do as an Internet Marketer, and here's how what I do can transform your business from point #1 to point #2 above. 4) Here is how you will know what I do is working for your business; here is how you can quantify it; 5) Here are the risks/benefits you will see when moving from step 1 to step 2, and here is how we can mitigate the risk while maximizing the benefit.

        I believe if you can make the steps I've outlined above so clear and simple that your grandfather could understand it, you'll then have a winning presentation.

        Good luck!
        LMAO!!! You sound like me with my previous hosting providers.
        Totally understand this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
        Originally Posted by theemperor View Post

        God I am sure the hosting loved you as a customer :p .... was it a $10 a month job. If so what do you expect?

        But your point is spot on you need to talk in the customers language especially PRE-SALES
        Hah I was thinking the same exact thing.

        The hosting company was telling you your sites were screwing up their servers hahah.

        What more do you want? Your sites aint up because your scripts effed it up.
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    • Profile picture of the author FredJones
      Yes, this is the essence of the entire story. They care about money - and if you could prove that they are missing a significant customers (the online ones) no matter how well they do offline, and that can translate into additional revenue without touching their current baseline (only aing to that, not overlapping with it), you shall make it.

      Start with telling the real estate guys that you are having too many queries since you have a "special kind of" online presence (no point explaining them the significance of Google first page), and you want to make money out of it and the real estate agent too can make money out of it. Hence this meeting - are the real estate agent guys interested?

      And your client (the real estate guys) are likely to say, "yes, since I shall add to my potential customer base".

      Originally Posted by czilbersher View Post

      Your real estate clients are right, of course. Why in the world should they give a cr@p about Google, SEO, pagerank or anything to do with IM. If I were them, I wouldn't. I would only care about making more money at the end of the day. Oh, you're saying that your IM efforts will translate into more $$$. Great! Show me! Quantify it; spell it out. Assume for a moment that I don't know (or care) about things like backlinks, SERPs and SEO. Help me care by translating this into sales (and please use language I understand). Your situation is vaguely reminiscent of a recent experience I had with my hosting provider: 200 of my domains suddenly became inaccessible and I was fuming. All I cared about was having my sites back up and online so that I could continue making money. Their IT Support team kept emailing me every hour or so to tell me that they were running this script or commenting out that line of code or altering the Apache permissions, or some other technical jargon bull$#$%. "Yes" I said, "That's great! Are my sites back up?" They'd reply: "Well no, but we're seeing that you're getting a large number of script calls from IP 67.191.blah.blah.blah." "Well, that's awesome! Are my sites back up?" "Not yet, but we see that some of your plug-ins may not be coded correctly and aren't closing their requests". "Well, that's just friggin' awesome! Are my sites back up????!!!!" <rinse repeat, ad nauseum>

      The point being, local businesses don't know diddly-squat about what we do. Your FIRST responsibility as a potential service provider is to provide EDUCATION. Period. Here's a good basic outline when speaking with your potential customers: 1) "I have listened and learned about your business and here is my understanding of what you do and how you do it today. 2) Here is my understanding of your 'pain points', or how you would like things to be in the ideal world; 3) Here is what I do as an Internet Marketer, and here's how what I do can transform your business from point #1 to point #2 above. 4) Here is how you will know what I do is working for your business; here is how you can quantify it; 5) Here are the risks/benefits you will see when moving from step 1 to step 2, and here is how we can mitigate the risk while maximizing the benefit.

      I believe if you can make the steps I've outlined above so clear and simple that your grandfather could understand it, you'll then have a winning presentation.

      Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michi Kono
    I once thought about doing what you are doing so i went out and asked a few real estate agents about the idea. They all said that they get approached by many people like me who are trying to sell leads but they are not interested because just doing "home open" on 2 to 3 weekends and they get enough leads to sell to (so that they don't have to pay commission to people like us)....

    Maybe i spoke to wrong agents......
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Michi Kono View Post

      I once thought about doing what you are doing so i went out and asked a few real estate agents about the idea. They all said that they get approached by many people like me who are trying to sell leads but they are not interested because just doing "home open" on 2 to 3 weekends and they get enough leads to sell to (so that they don't have to pay commission to people like us)....

      Maybe i spoke to wrong agents......
      Thats why I told ya I was wondering IF I should open a agency there and kick their butts

      But seriously, maybe some of them don't need more LEADS or don't want them, but I bet one of those agencies will close the deal with us.

      This network is going real strong and it can deliver solid LEADS each and every day.

      With the use of other skills discussed here extensively, I am sure one real estate company can bring thousands of Euros every month with no effort at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lagarde
    Most real estate agents don't understand the power of well-done search engine marketing. They stay stuck in old offline ways of doing business (like holding open houses...what a time waster!)

    As a whole, agents are NOT particularly internet savvy. Yet there's always a handful of agents who get it. For example, here in Austin, there's an real estate agent who's incredibly smart with getting backlinks and focusing on the right keywords.

    He shows up all the time on highly competitive keywords. I've actually met the guy. Down to earth and friendly. The funny thing is his website URL looks like a travel agency URL. :

    www.escapesomewhere.com

    Just goes to show you having the keywords in the URL isn't a requirement to rank high for competitive keywords.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    Fernando - these don't sound like great people tbh - but potentially a very cash rich deal.

    I like to avoid all tech talk for this very reason - they just don't get it.

    Plus, there is also the chance that they can get upset - after all, here is an outsider telling them they are doing it all wrong. I realise you aren't actually doing that, but you would be surprised how easy it is for some ego centric clients to get in a mood.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    If your going the approach of Build First -> Approach After would it not make sense to target the Realtors who are doing PPC for those keywords (assuming you haven't yet)

    It'll be much easier to show someone the value in free traffic when they're paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for the same traffic.

    Add to that the fact that natural traffic gets something like 75% more CTR then PPC and you've got great results.

    Another thing would be creating a lead generation report and placing it on the website with an autoresponder and collecting targeted leads...then you have even more ammo to bring to the table (a proven lead generation tool and lead follow-up system)

    Food for thought!

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author Conrad Stuart
      I have found the same exact thing. These people know so little about online marketing that they don't even care, and I have even found that some of them think that hiring out SEO/buying someone else's domain is equivelant to admitting they don't know what they're doing, therefore they just act like they don't need you. Same reason why most ecommerce people (in small niches) suck as well
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    This is a classic example of why IMers find dealing with offline businesses so hard.

    It's really just a symptom that you didn't ask them what they wanted first and then tried to sell them something they didn't want.

    Funny how as marketers it's still easy to forget how important research is before taking action in a niche.

    Some businesses will think it's all good but ultimately unless they're stupid they really just care about if you can make their phone ring more, and if they've been approached by 100's of people already telling them how they can help them (and you know they have), you're just another sales person to them unless you've been referred to them by someone they trust.

    If you go in all guns blazing talking about Google, most of them just don't care and they have no idea how much difference what you're offering will make.

    If they're switched on, they probably already have a lot of processes for maximizing their revenue and they probably have some sort of web presence, but it's quite often controlled by their head office and there's an advertising budget for online marketing.

    If you go for a chain of agents, you may be able to get traction by working with their main office if you can show them that you can deliver better and cheaper than PPC.

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Thanks guys, appreciate all your feedback. Powerful stuff, as usual.

    Just a sidenote: the company that dumped us, did it arrogantly because they already have "advertising in the internetzzz".

    Anyway, I will share with you our approach to this market. It was this... well, sort of:

    You sell houses.
    You want to sell these houses.
    You want to make more money.

    BUT You need more customers - There is a crisis right now and less people are buying.

    No problem.

    We have new customers for you.
    They come to us everyday.
    They want to buy houses in your city.

    Who are they? They are buyers.

    They use Google.
    The Search Engine.
    They use it to search for "buy home in this city".
    When they search, they see our sites at top spots.
    They click.
    They like what they see: great opportunities, a friendly city and friendly people!!
    They click to go to your site.
    You do your thing.
    You make the sale.
    They buy.
    You make more money.
    You happy.

    You interested?

    -----

    This not the exact presentation, but you get the idea. Hopefully we'll close this deal soon with someone with good heart and high expectations.

    Thanks again for your input!!
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    Are you sure people use Google to find houses locally? See I suspect they go straight to the big real estate listing portals instead. That's what I do.

    So maybe you should be targeting the related businesses which ARE usually found through google. For example: mortgage brokers, property lawyers, buyers agents, building inspectors etc.


    Andrew
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by rondo View Post

      Are you sure people use Google to find houses locally? See I suspect they go straight to the big real estate listing portals instead. That's what I do.
      I am positively sure Andrew. Traffic and search queries confirms it each day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pat Ordenes
    Hey Fernando,
    It's a shame that some companies do not share our vision.
    However, You're sitting on a good thing if your ranking already.
    In my view, I would do as Dexx suggests and capture as much
    information per lead as possible.

    Rather than just getting the email and name, maybe numbers etc...

    Offer a solid report on home buying/hunting etc...

    Then if the Real Estate companies do not bite, I would try brokers.
    They are independent, and will appreciate the leads a lot more.

    If all else fails, you'll be building a targeted list that you can sell products to yourself!
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    They don't care about the lingo. They care about LEADS.

    Translate the site into number of actual leads for them and the conversation is very different.

    Put an opt-in form with a "are you interested in buying or selling a home" traffic split. Show up at that meeting with a list of 500 opt-ins from the past 2 weeks and name your price. How you got the leads, being #1 on Google, etc... that's all nerd talk to most offline businesses. We care about that stuff, but I can assure you that most offline business owners don't care and won't care. It's all lingo to them, and in their perspective, what's popular now will change in 3 years anyway.... which is true to a certain extent.

    What doesn't change is the metrics of THEIR business. A contact sheet with a real person's info on it is real to them. Being #1 on Google doesn't necessarily translate for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      They don't care about the lingo. They care about LEADS.

      Translate the site into number of actual leads for them and the conversation is very different.

      What Michael has said here is so important it bears repeating.

      Always talk in your prospects language and about things that appeal to them.

      To a business owner what they're usually most interested in is more sales and profits.

      A real estate business wants more sales but even more important they want more listings (they get paid for a listing when anyone sells the house).

      You need to understand what they want and make an effort to speak their language if you want to have some success getting hired.

      It also helps if you're not trying to sell a predetermined service...that makes you come across as a sales person.

      If you're asking questions and suggesting customized solutions then you'll come across as a consultant/advisor.

      That radically increases your chances of getting hired and customized solutions (even though they can be VERY similar to what you'd do anyway) have a much higher perceived value meaning:

      # You can charge more.

      # There's a much lower chance they'll consider hiring anyone else to do the same job (they can't because your solution is not a commodity they can buy elsewhere...it's customized for them and their business).

      # They'll be more committed to making the project work.


      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I use telemaketing for getting offline business to bypass all the clients who already think they r Internet savvy and get straight to the ones who know they need your help.
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  • Offline people can be stupid they do not understand the internet and how powerful it is.

    I only help people who want to be helped. I drive traffic to my site from all over the world. I also call local business offer them a Free coaching program where I have a number of video lesson that explain internet marketing and the art of advertising.

    If they watch the video I work with those businesses if they don't well... I have gotten FREE rent from a insurance business I have given them free coaching in exchange for FREE rent they have not done a single thing I have suggest in 3 years. Even though they see these business owners walk through my doors who have really grown their businesses after working with me.

    They are in a rut and unwilling to change. My suggestion is to seek only those deserving of your skills and talents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
      Originally Posted by prostarprofitsdotcom View Post

      Offline people can be stupid they do not understand the internet and how powerful it is.
      That's a strong statement and not one that I'd make. If anything, business owners need to be educated in how the web can make them more money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimian
    I'm now partnering with someone showing Realtors how to use the
    internet to make sales -- but it has nothing to do with selling houses!

    If you show them PROOF online tools work, they'll listen whether it's selling homes
    or something related.

    JIM
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    OFFLINE Marketing Strategies For The OFFLINE Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Quick update: Tomorrow will have another appointment and the one from today just got delayed to next week.

    Bill:

    Only licensed brokers and agents can participate in the commissions.
    Did check the laws and, as expected, same rules applies to European countries. That's why we're discussing the possibility of one of us (me or wife) get our broker/agent license and work from there.

    Andrew:

    A real estate business wants more sales but even more important they want more listings (they get paid for a listing when anyone sells the house).
    We've been tweaking our sites and since yesterday visitors can insert their own listings AND ask for custom solutions for their needs for FREE.

    So far we have NONE, but I guess that has to do with the "No Listing In This Category"... As soon as some listings show up, people will insert more of them.

    Heck, I might try to sell my apartment!

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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel Medeiros
      I'm having a similar situation here in Brazil. A friend of mine wants to open a new dental office here and I told him about the benefits of being ranking on top position for the main local keywords in google. Although someone have convinced him that it's better to advertise in a local directory site, witch is a nice one but we can't compare it to the number one position in google, can we?

      I've decided that is not worth the time trying to convince him. He will soon come back to me...
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      • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
        Originally Posted by Gabriel Medeiros View Post

        I'm having a similar situation here in Brazil. A friend of mine wants to open a new dental office here and I told him about the benefits of being ranking on top position for the main local keywords in google. Although someone have convinced him that it's better to advertise in a local directory site, witch is a nice one but we can't compare it to the number one position in google, can we?

        I've decided that is not worth the time trying to convince him. He will soon come back to me...
        Show him the data from Market Samurai or Keywords. X amount of people search "city dentist", "dentist city", "cavity" etc. per day, and you are not even on their radar.
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        I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gabriel Medeiros
          Originally Posted by RentItNow View Post

          Show him the data from Market Samurai or Keywords. X amount of people search "city dentist", "dentist city", "cavity" etc. per day, and you are not even on their radar.
          I've told him about it but he is in a neighborhood and he would like to have the keywords "dentist neighborhood". And there is no search volume for that to start a seo project. I think I didn't convince him about the benefits of being the number one in Google for "dentist city".
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    • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      Did check the laws and, as expected, same rules applies to European countries. That's why we're discussing the possibility of one of us (me or wife) get our broker/agent license and work from there.
      I had agreements with agents that any VALID leads (presold people) I sent for house purchases, I get a 25% marketing fee (not commission). This is supposed to be reserved for licensed real estate agents but if you market property in my area, you do not have to have a license so I would charge a 25% marketing fee.

      When i rented houses and apartments, I made more money off these "really good leads" than anything because I had people looking to buy cashflowing properties and tenants wanting to buy houses.
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      I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by RentItNow View Post

        I had agreements with agents that any VALID leads (presold people) I sent for house purchases, I get a 25% marketing fee (not commission). This is supposed to be reserved for licensed real estate agents but if you market property in my area, you do not have to have a license so I would charge a 25% marketing fee.

        When i rented houses and apartments, I made more money off these "really good leads" than anything because I had people looking to buy cashflowing properties and tenants wanting to buy houses.
        Hey John,

        Frankly, I like the whole idea of becoming a licensed broker - and start to dominate some other areas near our city...

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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

    Guess what:

    They don't EVEN care about Google, rankings, traffic, leads... cause they have annual advertising in a real estate directory - where you need to search inside for a particular city - one damn directory that ranks bellow one of our sites and it's complicated as a old mule.
    I had the same experiences when I went from offline real estate work to online (I dealt with the largest firms in the city). You have to think of the target client you are going after. The big real estate brokers are totally old school to the point of thinking Kijiji, craigslist, rentals and even websites are useless and do not produce valid leads (which is the key).

    What you want to focus on is real estate agents just getting started and know the importance of Internet Marketing. Hit them with statistics about how many people go online to find houses now. You can find them on Twitter, facebook.

    Believe me, I know the pain. My jaw dropped when I was asked to speak to the top real estate guy in my city and he said Internet was totally useless in producing leads (only time-wasting welfare people - his words).

    Old school people do not want to put in the hard work to get those leads. They know their dying client base will come to them whether they are on google or not.

    What they don't get is the BUYING generation is almost exclusively using the net to find and sell homes.
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    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    I know where you are coming from. I had the top spot in a city of 25,000 + and I was sitting on the #1 spot of Google - citylawyer.com

    Everyday there were 5 unique visitors coming to the site BUT no lawyer seemed to care about it. I tried explaining what one conversion meant for them financially , etc.. but could not get rid of it. The site looked great, the proof was there, etc.. nothing. Perhaps I just needed to go to one more door but I moved on to strictly the online world.
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  • Profile picture of the author V12
    Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

    .... Yes.

    Offline Market Can Be a Killer.

    A killer of your own brain, efforts and good willing.

    Read on:

    A couple weeks ago we started a IM campaign to dominate the rankings for a big city (name) real estate. Huge market. Lot's of real estate agencies in the market, fighting each other. Great place to life. Lot's of money to be made.

    Now, 3 weeks later we're starting to dominate top stops for "city name real estate", "buy apartment in city name" or "buy villa in city name", etc etc.

    All the good keywords are getting hammered by our new network of sites. Traffic is increasing everyday and visitors come to us after searching different "buy" keywords.

    All good!!!

    So, this morning we had our first meeting. We had chosen one of the biggest real estate agencies in town to get it going.

    Guess what:

    They don't EVEN care about Google, rankings, traffic, leads... cause they have annual advertising in a real estate directory - where you need to search inside for a particular city - one damn directory that ranks bellow one of our sites and it's complicated as a old mule.

    Ouch. I am freaked out. Are they just plain ignorant or I am losing my skills to talk people to a objective that will make them much richer at the end of the year?

    Damn!!

    Guess it's time to open a real estate agency in their city and take them out of business, huh?



    Your thoughts?
    Why only real estate?

    Surely there are lots of other business areas which need your service?

    Abdul.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Opportunex View Post

      Why only real estate?

      Surely there are lots of other business areas which need your service?

      Abdul.
      Real estate can bring me more money then all the others combined?

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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
    Originally Posted by honestbizpro View Post

    I say give your complete services away for free!

    Once!

    Add the improved statistics and data to your presentation along with the awesome testimonial you will receive from the lucky recipient.

    After that, you should have the competition salavating for your services.
    That sounds like a good idea.

    Why not cut the crap, and say something like:

    I'll set it all up for you so you don't have to worry about anything, i'll send you all the leads free for one month, and if you think its worth it, we will talk about continuing it.

    Something tells me the thought of having to learn how to use the internet scares some of them off - or that they don't have the time to do that.

    Make it so easy for them that it would be stupid for them to say no.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

      That sounds like a good idea.

      Why not cut the crap, and say something like:

      I'll set it all up for you so you don't have to worry about anything, i'll send you all the leads free for one month, and if you think its worth it, we will talk about continuing it.

      Something tells me the thought of having to learn how to use the internet scares some of them off - or that they don't have the time to do that.

      Make it so easy for them that it would be stupid for them to say no.

      This SOUNDS like a good idea and you certainly could test it but generally speaking it usually doesn't work for the following reasons:

      # 1: If you don't force a business owner to go through the process of working out what your service is worth to them by making them pay for it they will tend not to value it highly.

      In other words you're reducing the perceived value of your service by giving it away for free.


      # 2: The business owner has no financial committment in making the leads you generate work for him (or in making any project you undertake work).

      As an example if he was paying $100+ per lead he'd follow up with those leads immediately.

      On the other hand if he's getting those leads free he's more likely to follow up with the leads when he gets around to it. He has nothing to lose.

      The faster you follow up with leads and the more personalized attention you give them the more likely it is those leads will convert into paying clients.

      You want the business owners you work with to be 100% committed to converting leads you generate and to making the projects you work on with them to work.

      The simplest way to do that is to charge them a substantial upfront fee so they're 100% committed.


      Free trial models can work in some cases but you need to understand the huge disadvantage you're putting yourself at.

      I don't know of any marketers who are making a good income in the offline niche who are providing any kind of service on a free trial basis.

      So it might be a good way to get some experience with your first ever client or two but you should be aware that it's probably not a very good long term model.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    How are things working out with them Fernando?
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

      How are things working out with them Fernando?
      Hey Steve,

      One appointment we had scheduled for today was delayed for next week and tomorrow we have another one. It's somewhat difficult to have meetings with them cause they have tight schedules - so they say!!!

      BUT after checking the laws (related to commissions in real estate businesses) we discovered we can be licensed broker/agent for less then 3K.

      So, right now we want to understand if we have deal with a company or not. IF not, maybe you'll see me as a real estate agent next months.

      We'll see what happens.



      Wanna buy a house in a private condo looking at the best waves in Europe? j/k
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  • Profile picture of the author doop
    From my experience the most important thing to do when dealing with OFFLINE businesses is to show them - REAL MEASURABLE RESULTS.

    They want to see PROSPECTS, LEADS and SALES. Most of them couldn't give a stuff about any of the web jargon or the nuts and bolts of how we generate traffic.

    Example:

    For my first OFFLINE venture I went down to my local gym and spoke to some of the Personal Trainers. I've since set up several webpages and have increased business for many of them by 100-200% and I can prove it since i take care of all their online payment processing

    The system works for both parties for several reasons:

    Trainers Benefit:
    - they get more regular work since sessions are paid for by CC online with bulk rate discounts
    - they get MEASURABLE results - they get a payment from me each week - this is revenue they didn't previously get so they know they are getting value for the money they pay me - If I don't deliver - they don't pay - they can't argue with that!
    - they don't have to know or care or worry about how the system works - they stick to what they are good at - training clients.

    My Benefit:
    - I get a fixed fee plus a % for all payments I generate for them
    - the system I use is easily scalable (the payment system/website template is literally a copy&paste job - I literally only change their photos and logo)
    - you don't need many trainers to get a 5 and possible 6 figure income from this
    - using local search it's incredibly easy to rank well in google and PPC clicks are CHEAP!!!

    I think the trick with OFFLINE is to

    1. target the right market
    2. keep it about them and show them RESULTS free and in advance before asking for payment (ie/ they pay if you deliver on your promise - this really isn't that hard)
    3. make sure you work as little as possible (make a system for everything)
    4. once you find something that works - REPEAT
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  • Profile picture of the author greff
    I'm not surprised at all. The RE business is faltering at best. Not much cash there.

    I am working with painting/drywall contractors (mom and pop style). I never do the work until I have their approval.

    Have you learned how to promote Google Local? That is a good attention getter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I agree you knocked the wrong door, find the agency that wants to beat the top dog and you'll have a new client.

    Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

    .... Yes.

    Offline Market Can Be a Killer.

    A killer of your own brain, efforts and good willing.

    Read on:

    A couple weeks ago we started a IM campaign to dominate the rankings for a big city (name) real estate. Huge market. Lot's of real estate agencies in the market, fighting each other. Great place to life. Lot's of money to be made.

    Now, 3 weeks later we're starting to dominate top stops for "city name real estate", "buy apartment in city name" or "buy villa in city name", etc etc.

    All the good keywords are getting hammered by our new network of sites. Traffic is increasing everyday and visitors come to us after searching different "buy" keywords.

    All good!!!

    So, this morning we had our first meeting. We had chosen one of the biggest real estate agencies in town to get it going.

    Guess what:

    They don't EVEN care about Google, rankings, traffic, leads... cause they have annual advertising in a real estate directory - where you need to search inside for a particular city - one damn directory that ranks bellow one of our sites and it's complicated as a old mule.

    Ouch. I am freaked out. Are they just plain ignorant or I am losing my skills to talk people to a objective that will make them much richer at the end of the year?

    Damn!!

    Guess it's time to open a real estate agency in their city and take them out of business, huh?



    Your thoughts?
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Dealing with people is complicated. It comes down to understanding their perspective and speaking in terms that they relate to. Everyone likes to feel in control of things rather than at the mercy of the whims of others.

    What the heck am I talking about? Guide the conversation so they -- not you -- are making the great "discoveries" and having eureka moments and you just happen to be there to implement it for them. Sometimes it is a matter of planting ideas and letting them grow in their minds.

    (Machiavelli)
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    Project HERE.

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