Indian Sellers - Here's Another Paypal Bomb!

87 replies
I really don't know whats going on.

Here is the email I just received from paypal

-----------------------------

In compliance with Indian regulations, if you are selling products and services to customers globally, please review the following important information:

• Any proceeds or earnings received into your PayPal account from the export of goods and services should be withdrawn to your bank account within 30 days.

• While making the withdrawal please make sure you select the purpose code that best fits your business.

• Any proceeds or earnings received into your PayPal account from the export of goods and services may only be withdrawn to your bank account in India. This received amount cannot be reused for making purchases.

• If you would like to make purchases on any website that accepts PayPal, you can continue to use any credit card issued by a bank in India.

-----------------------------

This is really bad news... I completely agree that they have to follow RBI rules but whats the solution for below?

1.. What if we were to pay to affiliate in excess of $5000? Majority of credit cards have limitations of around $500-$1000 here.

2.. What about membership subscriptions? hosting subscriptions?

3.. What if one does not have credit card?

4.. What if we do not withdraw within 30 days?

5.. Does this means having enough money in Paypal, we cannot hire freelancers to get the work done who accept paypal only?

This is really frustrating.. I already mailed them with my issues, I hope to get some guidance and more information from them on this situation... But if anyone have any information, please share


.
#bomb #indian #indian paypal sellers #paypal #sellers
  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    This is really the worst update of the rules. I am now starting to hate PayPal. I am really unhappy with the update.

    1. Open an FD in any bank (Mine's in SBI - minor account). They have a limit of 90% of the FD standing. So, you need at least a good balance of INR2.5 lakh to pay $5k.

    2. Well, according to new rules, we'll have to withdraw every month. So, it'a a bit cumbersome for membership sites.

    3. Get a credit card. SBI has ATM + CC @ IMR 275 per year. Ask your local branch about more info.

    4. I do not know about this. I'll call PP next week to find it out.

    5. We will have to ask PP about this. Maybe we'll have to pay using our CC. That's adding credit using a CC to our PP account.

    Mailing them is of no use. I never get a reply. Calling them is the best way to contact them.

    Karan
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
    Damn.

    That's gonna be painful, at least for those who don't have a credit card. :-(

    As for your questions...

    1) Try and use Clickbank maybe? If not, I'll have to ask my dad for this 'cause he knows what's goin' on but my CC has a limit of $4k. So, something like that might help. But again, for those doing over 10k, or 20k, or more... this ain't gonna help.

    2) Not too sure, really.

    3) You'll have to get one to pay for anything now. Can't pay with paypal balance if you got the balance from export of goods or services.

    4) Not sure, again.

    5) Yep, that's how I think it is.

    I'll search more on this and call Paypal today.
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by Swastik View Post

      1) Try and use Clickbank maybe? If not, I'll have to ask my dad for this 'cause he knows what's goin' on but my CC has a limit of $4k. So, something like that might help. But again, for those doing over 10k, or 20k, or more... this ain't gonna help.
      Yeah Clickbank is good option, but the problem is the cost of my designing services is more than what clickbank allows

      I really do not want to get involved with Credit Card

      It's high time now to look for better solutions...
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      • Profile picture of the author imran.qureshi
        Naveed,

        I got this bomb email in my inbox too

        Was very shocked to receive it...........

        As per my understanding i think we will still be allowed to pay Affiliate Commissions. The email says that... we won't be able to make any purchases. So, i guess as long as you use the Paypal's Mass Pay feature to pay affiliates. It should be ok!

        I have already sent them an email... lets see what reply i get.

        It would definitely be a huge pain to be not able to spend for purchases & hosting expenses using paypal balance...

        I recommend applying for a credit card in the name of every member of your family (if it's possible!).

        Lets hope & pray for the best
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    I do not have any problems with their other rules... the only thing make me sick is that I no longer use that money for buying stuff online... No WSOs too

    I will be calling them in few hrs.

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  • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
    Wow, that is really bad, sorry to hear that for you guys. And, yes, as Mike says, I also believe this may have something to do with tax and making sure everything is accounted for!

    Glad, we don't have that over here!

    GoGetta
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    • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
      Originally Posted by GoGetta View Post

      Wow, that is really bad, sorry to hear that for you guys. And, yes, as Mike says, I also believe this may have something to do with tax and making sure everything is accounted for!

      Glad, we don't have that over here!

      GoGetta
      Yup. That pretty much is about taxes. And more than that, it is for security. This might just prevent terrorists to use funds produced in India.

      Karan
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    Yes, We can surely understand that govt. need to keep a track of our earnings... They should have simply asked for submitting paypal consolidated statement while paying income tax like we do with the bank statements and not by forcing with such rules that will stop us doing business online.

    I really doubt the Govt. has really taken an effort to work out on the other issues and just trying to make their life easier

    Instead of helping entrepreneurs they are discouraging them...
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Could be - I don't work or live in India and haven't a clue as to what's required. Butg I believe they're forcing PayPal to do these things from what I've read...they're caught in the middle.
        Exactly, I don't blame paypal, in fact they are suffering most and I hope they will work it out with the govt. and allow genuine purchases (even though they have already stopped sending/receiving personal payments)
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    Guys, in just couple of hrs., I got reply from PAYPAL... I am quite sure its from paypal, and there have been talks going on on DP too... Or is it that this guy is not aware of these rules?


    Dear Naved Peerzade,

    Thank you for contacting PayPal.

    I apologize for the inconvenience. While we are verifying the legitimacy
    of the e-mail you received, I advise that you forward us a copy of the
    e-mail to spoof@paypal.com. Rest assured, you will be notified by us if
    the e-mail you received is from PayPal or not.

    We know situations like this can be difficult, so thanks for working
    with us. If you have more questions, visit our Help Center by clicking
    "Help" in the top right corner of any PayPal page.

    Sincerely,
    Charmen Dey
    PayPal, an eBay Company
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    ^^This might be lame, but the former mail might be a scam. As the new rules aren't also on the PP blog.

    Karan
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by Karan Goel View Post

      ^^This might be lame, but the former mail might be a scam. As the new rules aren't also on the PP blog.

      Karan
      Karan, I wouldnt have bothered to post it here, we get spoofs all the time and I know how to check if its legit... this mail was legit, may be someone hacked paypal server? the email header did have paypal.com "from" address, yahoo has "domainkey verified"

      Anyway, seems big relief, The GOD is great
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    I just cannot believe this...

    I looked at the header and it was sent from Paypal.com... yahoo showed "domainkey verified"

    Now here is a relief I immediately got reply from Spoof dept.

    Hello Naveed,

    Thanks for forwarding that suspicious-looking email. You're right - it
    was a phishing attempt, and we're working on stopping the fraud. By
    reporting the problem, you've made a difference!

    Identity thieves try to trick you into revealing your password or other
    personal information through phishing emails and fake websites. To learn
    more about online safety, click "Security Center" on any PayPal webpage.


    Every email counts. When you forward suspicious-looking emails to
    spoof@paypal.com, you help keep yourself and others safe from identity
    theft.

    Your account security is very important to us, so we appreciate your
    extra effort.

    Thanks,

    PayPal

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    • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
      Originally Posted by Naveed Peerzade View Post

      I just cannot believe this...

      I looked at the header and it was sent from Paypal.com... yahoo showed "domainkey verified"

      Now here is a relief I immediately got reply from Spoof dept.
      But how come was it a phishing attempt? There isn't any hyperlink in the mail received. There is just text.

      Please can you clarify?

      Thanks
      Karan
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      • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
        Originally Posted by Karan Goel View Post

        But how come was it a phishing attempt? There isn't any hyperlink in the mail received. There is just text.

        Please can you clarify?

        Thanks
        Karan
        Yeah, all these things clearly shows that it was sent from paypal server, may be someone hacked it and tried to create some buzz/ make a fun of Indians?
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by Naveed Peerzade View Post

      I just cannot believe this...

      I looked at the header and it was sent from Paypal.com... yahoo showed "domainkey verified"

      Now here is a relief I immediately got reply from Spoof dept.

      It's probably a scam. I got 2 copies of this email. One was to an email
      address that isn't even registered on PayPal.

      Both emails had this in the header:



      List-Unsubscribe:
      <mailto:v-cmjddj_ddfjjpkid_kiahdml_kiahdml_a@bounce.mkt2566. com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      Never seen that before in an email from PayPal!

      The images in the HTML email were delivered from h*tp://open.mkt2566.com/

      Also, the message had this at the bottom (notice the incorrect English, and
      the meaning is different from the real advisory in genuine PayPal emails):

      Consumer Tip: PayPal Pte Ltd Department of PayPal™ stored value tool holder without the approval by the Monetary Authority of Singapore. Advised consumers (users) read the terms and conditions.
      Finally, this was at variance with my experience:

      Any proceeds or earnings received into your PayPal account from the export of goods and services may only be withdrawn to your bank account in India. This received amount cannot be reused for making purchases.
      I had just made a purchase with my PayPal balance a day earlier.

      So, yes, it looks like a scam email. No, I didn't notice it specifically,
      because the content sounded irrelevant and didn't have any 'clickable' links.

      In any case, I never act upon emails from PayPal, but log in to my online
      interface and verify all such information.

      My biggest concern, this time around, is that the email addressed me by
      name
      - and the same name as the PayPal account I'm registered under.
      That, until now, had been one of the pretty reliable indicators I had used to
      differentiate spammers from genuine PP email. Not any longer!

      As regards the RBI guidelines and FEMA regulations that govern all forex
      transactions in India, I would urge anyone involved to CAREFULLY learn the
      laws and seek expert advice from a qualified accountant about the latest
      applicable regulations. Violation of these rules, even from ignorance, can
      be a VERY serious problem, and is not something you want to risk.

      I have made mistakes that cost me a lot of money in the earlier days of my
      work online (around 1997) by not getting the best expert opinions and
      advice. You may find yourself eligible for tax breaks, or subject to extra
      paperwork depending upon how much forex you transfer in and out of the
      country.

      And with PayPal now a 'banking organization', they are subject to all the
      rules and laws that govern any other banking institution. Please do your
      due diligence to avoid any nasty backlash down the line.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author tylerdrun
    Bad business..........
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  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    I guess we need to stop complaining and do business instead.

    It wouldn't take much time for them to declare "No PayPal for Indians". Having paypal with these rules is much better than having no paypal at all. What the problem with withdrawing the funds and spending again with credit card? You can fund your credit card with the money that you have withdrawn.
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  • Profile picture of the author webguru
    FAKE EMAIL

    Confirmation from Paypal:

    *************************
    Hello xxxxxxx,

    Thanks for forwarding that suspicious-looking email. You're right - it
    was a phishing attempt, and we're working on stopping the fraud. By
    reporting the problem, you've made a difference!

    Identity thieves try to trick you into revealing your password or other
    personal information through phishing emails and fake websites. To learn
    more about online safety, click "Security Center" on any PayPal webpage.

    Every email counts. When you forward suspicious-looking emails to
    spoof @ paypal.com, you help keep yourself and others safe from identity
    theft.

    Your account security is very important to us, so we appreciate your
    extra effort.

    Thanks,

    PayPal
    ****************************

    SO DONT PANIC GUYS, ITS A SILLY PHISHING MAIL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    Here is the strange update guys!

    I just received another reply to my initial question from paypal to which first they confirmed it was a spoof and then sent me this

    Dear Naved Peerzade,

    Thank you for contacting PayPal.

    We encourage withdrawal of all your funds from the PayPal account in
    order to comply to strict Indian financial regulations. To date, we have
    yet to receive more new communication/updates to answer your specific
    query.

    If you require more information other than what I have provided, please
    give us a call at 1-402-935-2080 and we will try our best to give you
    immediate answers. Thank you for choosing PayPal for your online payment
    needs. We appreciate your business.

    Sincerely,
    Jeanette
    PayPal, an eBay Company
    Copyright © 1999-2010 PayPal. All rights reserved.
    Consumer advisory - PayPal Pte. Ltd., the holder of PayPal's stored
    value facility, does not require the approval of the Monetary Authority
    of Singapore. Users are advised to read the terms and conditions
    carefully.
    Got more questions?
    You'll find answers at our improved Help Center.
    Click "Help" on the top right corner of any PayPal page to get started
    or you can visit www.PayPal.com/101.
    This is surely not a spoof cause its a personal reply to my questions I asked them... But now the questions are

    1.. Was that really spoof mail which was sent initially?
    2.. If it was, how did the spammer got real name on file only on paypal account?
    3.. If it was a spoof how come she is asking me to withdraw all funds? which is what exactly mentioned in the initial (spoof?) mail.
    4.. Do they really know whats going on?
    5.. They have kept all Indian accounts on hold for withdrawals for weeks while they sort out issues with the Govt. Wasn't that enough time to get all such Major issues discussed?

    In such situation, there is really nothing can be done, except cross your fingers and keep watching how it goes
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      I'll admit it is kind of confusing!

      First, here's the reply I got from PayPal:

      Thanks for taking an active role by reporting suspicious-looking emails.
      Although we've determined that the email you forwarded to us is not a
      phishing attempt, our security team is grateful for your concern.

      *************************
      What is a phishing email?
      *************************
      Phishing emails attempt to steal your identity and will often ask you to
      reveal your password or other personal or financial information. PayPal
      will never ask you for your password over the phone or in an email and
      will always address you by your first and last name.
      Now, I'm assuming they are saying it's not a phishing attempt
      (because it doesn't ask for personal/financial info) - and are not saying
      it's a genuine message from PayPal... but I've asked them to clarify,
      and also asked how the message included my name in the personalization.

      Originally Posted by Naveed Peerzade View Post

      This is surely not a spoof cause its a personal reply to my questions I asked them... But now the questions are

      5.. They have kept all Indian accounts on hold for withdrawals for weeks while they sort out issues with the Govt. Wasn't that enough time to get all such Major issues discussed?
      Last week, I withdrew funds to my bank account, so that 'hold for withdrawals'
      has probably been removed. Try it and see.

      4.. Do they really know whats going on?
      Good question!

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author Akky
    Hi Warriors,

    Just my two cents.

    I still didn't get an email from them...

    IMHO, This could possibly be a spoof. I use gmail and all paypal emails will have a secure icon besides the subject (external addon). I find that pretty much useful.

    G'day,
    Akky
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Cant you just withdrawl as required then transfer money back in?
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    • Profile picture of the author Margaret Arumugam
      All PayPal withdrawals in India are in 'Pending' status since the 7th of April.

      Apart from not being able to use our money, it seems like we're not able to withdraw it to our banks either.

      Stuck in no man's land till PayPal clarifies next week (hopefully).
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  • Profile picture of the author userlogsin
    If this acyualy gets into production then it will for sure make our finances less liquid. However what concerns me is, why have only a few people received these mails. I have not yet received it.

    Moreover, there is a concept of Bonded Warehouse (where you import goods or services to process and export) available in India. However you need to obtain a license to function like one. And our paypal activity is similar, at least in spirit. I was expecting RBI and GoI to ask online traders to get an export license and regularise this market but that has not happened yet. I am sure there are far better qualified people in RBI to draft such foolish laws (and please do not assume such technical stuff is decided by politicians who may, in vain, spend their entire life trying to understand the implications of such activities itself.)

    One question though, what kind of account do you have with paypal - merchant, verified, personal, etc. I hope there is no trend.

    To begin with - I have a verified premier account with them and I have not received any email from them.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMKing
    I hope no need worry about this, it is a phishing mail. Expecting some official announcement from paypal regarding this.
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  • Profile picture of the author gman2319
    Lol...I went through a whole range of emotions while reading this thread
    From being totally pissed to relieved.
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    • Profile picture of the author FredJones
      I had got that bombshell email from Paypal too.

      Lets not bother about the email - I could go ahead and purchase using my Paypal balance still. I have made $268.95 worth of purchase since that over 3 transactions using my Paypal balance, and have faced no issue.

      BUT, lets call them and find out.

      And, lets NOT call at the number given in the email.

      No way.

      Go to Paypal's official website and let them forward the call to their official ddepartment. The phone number attached has a chance to be a phishing one too, and we must safeguard against that.

      And I totally agree, Paypal has literally been bad on Indian users of late. In particular, in the January/February incident, they had rolled back completed transactions dated more than a week back with no consent of the site owners in spite of products having been delivered in many places, leading to loss of huge financial impacts overall. I had felt it was absolutely unprofessional.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shrinivas
    I have received a similar email with my name in it. I don't think it's a scam or something. I purchased a WSO last month but paypal charged my CC instead of using the balance in my paypal account. That's really bad. I should stop promoting those affiliate programs which pay directly into PP account. The idea is to use the same money for hosting so that virtually your business runs free of cost. Most hosting companies accept payments from PP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pragun
    Aaargh.... to make matters worse, even the money that I try to send to my bank account's stuck as "Pending"...

    If you don't allow me to transfer MY OWN money to MY OWN bank account, how the heck do you expect me to pay for the credit card bills which, thanks to you, have started kissing the limits already !! X(
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      I see a tone of complaining, entitlement and frustration that's quite
      out of keeping with the idea of being a WARRIOR!

      In 1996, there was no PayPal in India, Clickbank opened membership to
      Indians only briefly (then shut it), and credit card transactions for
      foreign currency had very strict and small limits.

      Yet, to a creative person, there are always options open. Yes, it took
      some hard work to dig around and research alternatives. Yes, it was
      hard work to find people who understood what e-commerce was, and knew
      what Internet transactions involved, from legal, accounting and banking
      perspectives.

      But after bumping my head against a few brick walls, I did find a way
      to work around the limitations - until better solutions appeared.

      To business owners and marketers today, all of this may sound like a
      piece of irrelevant history - until you realize that entrepreneurship
      is, in essence, a way of overcoming obstacles and hurdles along the
      path to making a dream come true.

      Are you going to do that?

      Or stay focused on what's not working?

      Your choice, either way. I know what I'm doing!

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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      • Profile picture of the author theimdude
        Hey you guys must stop complaining and sending emails to Paypal. You will give then some ideas for new regulation and your goverment
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      • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
        Dr.Mani - I started this thread not to complain about paypal, but just wanted to get some answers that would affect on my business, ofcourse, in worst case, if paypal has to shut down Indian operations, we are not going to keep complaining / yelling at them but rather look for the alternatives...

        So whenever there are some new rules, It is expected to have some questions to be answered by them, either yes/no (if they are not clear in their rules)

        If yes, you continue with them, if no, move on with other alternatives that suites your business model

        Steve Holmes - I have followed up with them, but as I see from the emails received by them, it seems they are not yet clear with the Govt. Regulations they need to follow.

        And I hope, when they announce final rules for sellers, it would be much clear

        Guys, please do not make this thread as a complaint thread (like paypalsucks) lol, rather let's keep it a discussion thread and keep everyone updated with Paypal Rules for Indian Sellers you may come across.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Holmes
    Get in touch with Paypal and give them any suggestions/workarounds. I'm sure they don't read the WF so an email from all of you concerned may actually do something beneficial

    Hope you sort it out
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There was a big fuss some time ago when changes in the law in India stopped paypal from allowing withdrawals there.

      It was not the fault of paypal. The link below gives you some idea of what was going on and paypal has been given permission to resume withdrawals.

      PayPal India to resume fund withdrawals - Internet - News
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  • Profile picture of the author randalblanchette
    Maybe a debit card backed by visa international?
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by maxsinclair View Post

      Maybe a debit card backed by visa international?
      Yup, I though of that but not sure which Indian bank has debit card with ccv2 codes, it could be visa/master etc..
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  • Profile picture of the author howudoin
    I have received a similar email with my name in it. I don't think it's a scam or something. I purchased a WSO last month but paypal charged my CC instead of using the balance in my paypal account. That's really bad. I should stop promoting those affiliate programs which pay directly into PP account. The idea is to use the same money for hosting so that virtually your business runs free of cost. Most hosting companies accept payments from PP.
    I received a similar email yesterday, but was able to buy a WSO today using the funds in my PayPal account. So it might be that this email was Phishy.

    To Dr Mani:: Did you got any reply from the support guy regarding your query about your name appearing in the email.

    Thanks
    Bhupinder
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    • Profile picture of the author senkuma
      i don't bother about the email being sent is spoof or legit by paypal.

      there are many valuable stuff to be carried out by indian government such as bringing home all black money that are dumped in swiss banks, planting trees all over india to overcome the loss of trees due to 4 lane highway road project, produce more paddy and drinking water to feed 20 million per meal per day eaters etc.., indians pay tax and all money goes to swiss and foreign accounts.

      still money is not enough and so indian internet guru's, indian online merchants, indian freelancers are forced to pay tax in form of paypal drama.

      long live india and god save india. see how second largest democratic country acts
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  • Profile picture of the author spearce000
    I received an e-mail today from PayPal updating their UK User Agreements with effect from Jun 1st 2010:

    • Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement
    Fees

    Section 8 is being amended to clarify that you cannot send personal transaction payments to Indian registered Accounts.
    The second paragraph of section 8 has been amended to now read as follows:

    "Please also note that:

    a. you cannot send money for a PayPal personal transaction from some countries, including Germany or China; and
    b. you cannot send personal transaction payments to Indian registered Accounts."
    Looks like people might not be able to pay you guys using PayPal anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by spearce000 View Post

      Looks like people might not be able to pay you guys using PayPal anyway.
      This is only for personal payments, you can always send money by selecting
      "services / goods".
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  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    Naveen,

    The title of the thread gives me a heart attack!

    If there is no such thing going on and everything is clear, why not ask the mods to close this one thread bcuz rumors can start any moment.

    This thread can do the damage. And it's disheartening to keep seeing the thread at the top of this section of WF when we're supposed to be working on making money.

    For sure, this thread is giving me a heart attack when every new post adds up and I come down to look up if everything is fine.

    Wish it's closed asap as it does NOT make any sense to discuss on the issue further when everything is well with PayPal and its users in India.

    Why give a heartache to our friends and make them feel distressed! I feel so and I am sure there are others who do feel the same.

    My request. Please close this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author gubwell12
    I got this message from Paypal some time back but I am able to send payments through my Paypal account.
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  • Profile picture of the author howudoin
    If there is no such thing going on and everything is clear, why not ask the mods to close this one thread bcuz rumors can start any moment.

    This thread can do the damage. And it's disheartening to keep seeing the thread at the top of this section of WF when we're supposed to be working on making money.

    For sure, this thread is giving me a heart attack when every new post adds up and I come down to look up if everything is fine.

    Wish it's closed asap as it does NOT make any sense to discuss on the issue further when everything is well with PayPal and its users in India.
    I'm sorry to provide you with bad news but everything is NOT fine with Paypal.

    Now there are problems with withdrawing money to your local bank account (AGAIN!).

    I initiated a transfer on 9th April and it was supposed to be cleared on 16th April (Yesterday). However, it is still showing "Pending" status inside my paypal account!.

    I contacted their support and this is the response that I got:

    I understand your concern regarding this withdraw Mr. Patial, in this
    moment we are making a review of the information of these transactions
    in the PayPal accounts of the India, that the status of pending is on
    your PayPal account doesn't mean that the transaction is not registered
    in your bank, you can verify with your bank if the funds are available,
    if the funds are not registered in your bank, you can contact us after
    14 business days that the withdraw was made to make a research for this
    funds and see what happen to them by an investigation for this case.


    So basically, now I have to wait for another 6 days before I can contact them again regarding this issue. Also note that they are making a "review" of this info of indian accounts in specific. Is that an indication of coming of another measure by RBI (Which PP is forced to enact)?

    Anybody else facing this problem?

    Bhupinder
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    ronakshah - Everything is still not fine. My heartbeats increase too whenever there is an update on this thread and I need to be subscribed so I know whats going on, if everything is okay with you and do not want to get heart attack just unsubscribed from this thread

    Paypal has still not made any of us clear with the situation, last night a friend called them up and they said you need to withdraw funds within 30 days, thats fine... but when he asked what if we do not withdraw and they said "don't know".

    So paypal now is like a hanging sword, I am moving to another processor now for future business, just hope that I can get my project done that I am trying to get from multiple freelancers.
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    • Profile picture of the author FredJones
      Most things are not fine. We could not even update our PAN details for weird issues (reference: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ease-help.html - amazing!).

      So in my opinion it is far from over. Mentally, I am gearing up for a few months of slowdown or ever a complete stoppage of our business here.

      Naveed, what is the other processor that you want to move to? This is to understand the alternatives for Indian business owners who have a dependency upon Paypal, just like Sudeshna and I do have one.
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      • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
        Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

        Naveed, what is the other processor that you want to move to? This is to understand the alternatives for Indian business owners who have a dependency upon Paypal, just like Sudeshna and I do have one.
        2checkout

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        • Profile picture of the author FredJones
          Thanks!! I hope they have a reasonable transaction charge and turnaround?

          I have heard of 2CO. And I strongly hope they develop as a real alternative to Paypal.

          Paypal has been unprofessional and much more than that over the last 3 months to the Indian users. And there is no reason that they won't become the same to others too.

          So, no matter where you are in the world, BEWARE (in my opinion).
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        • Profile picture of the author radhika
          I feel for you Guys! I hope it is just a fishy scam.

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        • Profile picture of the author drmani
          Questions that *might* help you get moving in the right direction:

          #1 - Can I live with PayPal's terms and conditions, as they are, and
          run my business?

          #2 - Are there any viable alternatives that are better (or at least
          equal to) PayPal which I can use?

          #3 - How can I work within the framework and limitations that PayPal
          imposes on my business, and still keep it growing and thriving?

          #4 - What assets, relationships and partnerships can I tap into or
          forge to help me work around the limitations I'm facing?

          #5 - What are the risks in sticking with PayPal alone as my payment
          processing options? Are these risks acceptable for my business and
          model?

          #6 - Who else is working within these limitations and doing well?
          What are they doing? How can I contact them to seek suggestions
          or get feedback?

          And if you're more ambitious, innovative or have access to the right kind of
          financing and connections, you might see right here an opportunity to set
          up an entire business and service, processing payments for online merchants
          like you - and BECOME the next 2CO or PP or any other!

          Hope this helps

          All success
          Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author FredJones
    Complying with rules is good. In fact that is the only desirable way.

    But, what about the gray areas?

    For example, what about you want a clarification on a rule, call and email Paypal and they have no idea how to deal with it? Or worse still, they have no idea simply because it is an international issue and the jargon is not familiar to them?

    This is what we have been facing over the last month (me and Sudeshna, as a business unit).

    And what happens when Paypal does not comply with Government rules and then suddenly freeze every account for a whole month with no prior notification, roll back every transaction they have done (even if they have sold something and have delivered the product or service) in past, for complete fault of Paypal and no fault of the user?

    That is what they have done in India all through 2010. And every single Paypal India customer will agree with me. Point me one single - yes, liteally one single - Indian customer who did not suffer because of sheer sloppiness of Paypal, and I would be bowled!

    Why was Paypal not taken to legal action for this sheer unprofessionalism?

    The answer is - how can you take it internationally, when you are trying to protect your money? Paypal had even locked the very money of every Indian user with them for a month (or a little more). And international legal action is thoroughly expensive. In theory everything is possible, but practically it is almost impossible.

    Tell me, can this be a good reason to respect Paypal?

    So I re-iterate, we need alternatives. Immediately. Lets see how 2CO works, as an example.
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    • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
      Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

      Complying with rules is good. In fact that is the only desirable way.

      But, what about the gray areas?

      For example, what about you want a clarification on a rule, call and email Paypal and they have no idea how to deal with it? Or worse still, they have no idea simply because it is an international issue and the jargon is not familiar to them?

      This is what we have been facing over the last month (me and Sudeshna, as a business unit).

      And what happens when Paypal does not comply with Government rules and then suddenly freeze every account for a whole month with no prior notification, roll back every transaction they have done (even if they have sold something and have delivered the product or service) in past, for complete fault of Paypal and no fault of the user?

      That is what they have done in India all through 2010. And every single Paypal India customer will agree with me. Point me one single - yes, liteally one single - Indian customer who did not suffer because of sheer sloppiness of Paypal, and I would be bowled!

      Why was Paypal not taken to legal action for this sheer unprofessionalism?

      The answer is - how can you take it internationally, when you are trying to protect your money? Paypal had even locked the very money of every Indian user with them for a month (or a little more). And international legal action is thoroughly expensive. In theory everything is possible, but practically it is almost impossible.

      Tell me, can this be a good reason to respect Paypal?

      So I re-iterate, we need alternatives. Immediately. Lets see how 2CO works, as an example.
      The problem is that no other company is as competitive as paypal in terms of features, security and ease of use. Moneybookers comes close, but not enough. If no other company is competitive, then it means that what paypal has done is not easily achievable even by big companies. So we should thank paypal. And forgive their sloppiness, and stop commenting negatively about them. Especially when our full time job is not being a critique.
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      • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
        Originally Posted by Deepak Media View Post

        The problem is that no other company is as competitive as paypal in terms of features, security and ease of use. Moneybookers comes close, but not enough. If no other company is competitive, then it means that what paypal has done is not easily achievable even by big companies. So we should thank paypal. And forgive their sloppiness, and stop commenting negatively about them. Especially when our full time job is not being a critique.
        We are just expecting them to answer our queries thats all, we cannot blindly keep thanking them just because they exist, there is no use if it does not help our business. They can state their own terms / rules and we have to see if our business fits with them, if not move on.

        And yes, they need to take responsibility, they cannot have monopoly, cause its after all its a business, and they need us (merchants) without us they are not in business.

        Its like you have a great product have its own terms, buyers who find it good buy it and goes with you, but suddenly you change your terms then you are answerable to them if its affecting them.
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        • Profile picture of the author FredJones
          Absolutely. Andd I am very much eager to find how your experience on 2CO becomes.

          2010 has been pathetic in terms of Paypal + Indians.

          Originally Posted by Naveed Peerzade View Post

          We are just expecting them to answer our queries thats all, we cannot blindly keep thanking them just because they exist, there is no use if it does not help our business. They can state their own terms / rules and we have to see if our business fits with them, if not move on.

          And yes, they need to take responsibility, they cannot have monopoly, cause its after all its a business, and they need us (merchants) without us they are not in business.

          Its like you have a great product have its own terms, buyers who find it good buy it and goes with you, but suddenly you change your terms then you are answerable to them if its affecting them.
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          • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
            Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

            Absolutely. Andd I am very much eager to find how your experience on 2CO becomes.

            2010 has been pathetic in terms of Paypal + Indians.
            I have been using 2co right from the beginning I started taking orders online I guess from 2006, I never had any issues with them.

            Just play safe, keep them updated whats going on with you like if you are doing a launch let them know so they know you are expecting a surge in receivables. If you have any doubts ask them rather guessing.

            No issues, always had payment on time, no delays earlier when they were doing wire transfers and now they have option with Debit Card too. that makes life easier.
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            • Profile picture of the author FredJones
              That's very interesting. The information is of immense value to me, as an Indian business person. Sudeshna and I now know exactly where to go as an alternative.

              And another interesting point from another post - did you say Clickbank? I thought you can only launch products there. Can you also run services, make one-off sales of products, become affiliates of other corporates (such as IDevAffiliate system users) and so on using Clickbank? I had never known this !!

              Originally Posted by Naveed Peerzade View Post

              I have been using 2co right from the beginning I started taking orders online I guess from 2006, I never had any issues with them.

              Just play safe, keep them updated whats going on with you like if you are doing a launch let them know so they know you are expecting a surge in receivables. If you have any doubts ask them rather guessing.

              No issues, always had payment on time, no delays earlier when they were doing wire transfers and now they have option with Debit Card too. that makes life easier.
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              • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
                Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

                That's very interesting. The information is of immense value to me, as an Indian business person. Sudeshna and I now know exactly where to go as an alternative.

                And another interesting point from another post - did you say Clickbank? I thought you can only launch products there. Can you also run services, make one-off sales of products, become affiliates of other corporates (such as IDevAffiliate system users) and so on using Clickbank? I had never known this !!
                So far I know Clickbank is only for digital products and not services. I mentioned it as to alternative payment processor available for Indian's who are selling something except services

                2co is best, their TDR is low (more than paypal though) but ofcourse competitive than others like plimus, clickbank, eSellerate etc.

                All the best,

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  • Profile picture of the author Margaret Arumugam
    One of the downsides of running an online business is having to depend on payment processors that a significant % of people worldwide use, yet is known to have its own troubles for specific countries.

    It's been a rough ride for Indians all of 2010 (so far), but I see this as the pain of progress. Till a better alternative comes up, we need to constantly adapt AND constantly diversify.
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  • Profile picture of the author poker princess
    I guess very soon you guys have to switch over to bank wire transfer or western union. Thatz what is the only option I see after reading the whole thread here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by poker princess View Post

      I guess very soon you guys have to switch over to bank wire transfer or western union. Thatz what is the only option I see after reading the whole thread here.
      I don't see that yet Paypal is surely not going to leave Indian business, even if they do there are still other alternatives like 2co, clickbank, alterpay etc.

      There are going to be more in future for sure who understand Indian market potential

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  • Profile picture of the author harveen0019
    To get all the issues solved, we must call paypal. There is no use of sending an email to them, We never get a decent reply.
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by harveen0019 View Post

      To get all the issues solved, we must call paypal. There is no use of sending an email to them, We never get a decent reply.
      A friend already called them and as mentioned above, they are not sure about the situation and have no answers to the queries.
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  • Profile picture of the author mahesh2k
    1. Paypal users from india are now forced to enter PAN Account number (similar to SSN ID) and Mobile Phone number. This way your taxes are monitored by paypal and RBI.

    2. There is no such official announcement from paypal blog so this mail is likely to be phishing attempt(as many poeple directly reply to such email instead of contacting paypal by other means).
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  • Profile picture of the author chandan_dutta
    This is really tough situation for all of us. Don't know what is going to happen. I did not get any email from PayPal though and I am able to purchase using my own PayPal balance. In February(when the main problem occurred) I withdrawn money to bank through Xoom. But now XOOM is also not working with PayPal. It's the time to check other alternatives and I believe 2CO will be the best. I withdrawn few amount on 15 April. It is showing completed status in PayPal but money is not deposited to bank still. Hope Monday it will be done. I will update if I am able to get the money. Really bad experience with PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    This is getting insane.

    I called PayPal 4 times in the last week. 2 times the executive said that the mail was genuine, and 2 times he said the mail was scam mail, and the investigation "is going on". Really very confusing.

    There doesn't seem to be an end to this conversation. Till now, what I can conclude is that PayPal SUCKS.

    Karan
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by Karan Goel View Post

      This is getting insane.

      I called PayPal 4 times in the last week. 2 times the executive said that the mail was genuine, and 2 times he said the mail was scam mail, and the investigation "is going on". Really very confusing.

      There doesn't seem to be an end to this conversation. Till now, what I can conclude is that PayPal SUCKS.

      Karan
      In urgent cases I call them, but I make sure I get some communication through email also so that I have something to show them if required

      If anyone planning to call them, please refer to my first post and queries and post their answers here and if any additional information you may get.

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  • Profile picture of the author senderbot
    Hi,

    Use a 3rd party reseller that operates as a go between between you and paypal. This will totally protect you as the majority are in the US. Plus they allow other payments from customers rather than just Paypal. And they can pay you via paypal, bank transfer, cheque etc...

    At the very least consider having a second way to take payment instead of solely having your business rely on Paypal.

    I personally use www.plimus.com, but you can also look at www.fastspring.com, Kagi, and eSellerate

    Cheers

    Max
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Just a little update.

    I just made 7 payments from my account to 7 different people.

    So, now it's even more fishy.. I'll call PP in a few days.

    Karan
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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    The water is going above the head. What is the real deal with paypal?
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    Guys, whenever you call paypal just do not show them your frustration else things may turn out bad for you.

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  • Profile picture of the author nvs74191
    Get yourselves a merchant account, and focus on business. Or, withdraw funds from paypal account into your credit card account and use the credit card to pay for all your paypal payments.
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by nvs74191 View Post

      Get yourselves a merchant account, and focus on business. Or, withdraw funds from paypal account into your credit card account and use the credit card to pay for all your paypal payments.
      how to get a merchant account as Indian seller?

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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Hey all.

    Actually, I see no changes. I just setup a temporary India based Premier PayPal account, and another US based Premier account. Then I sent a few buck to the former from my main account, and then to the US account.

    Then, I sent it to my main account and all was (almost smooth).

    The only thing we need to make sure is that the payments aren't "Personal". Also, we can send and receive the payments from any accounts even if the PAN number isn't entered.

    So, from all this we can conclude that the mail was a spam mail.

    Karan
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  • Profile picture of the author Vishal Mahadik
    Thanks Karan for performing all the testing. I also did not get any of the above mentioned emails from Paypal till date. So we can conclude that those emails were Phishing mails.

    But entering your PAN number is I think compulsory from this point onward if you want to continue transacting through Paypal. I don't see a big problem while paying through your CC. You can simply withdraw your PP balance to CC and then pay anonymously using your pp account. So I don't think there is so much big trouble with their updated policies.

    So the ultimate thing is we can still perform usual transaction using PP but now our transactions will be monitored by RBI. That's it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
      Originally Posted by im2010 View Post

      Thanks Karan for performing all the testing. I also did not get any of the above mentioned emails from Paypal till date. So we can conclude that those emails were Phishing mails.

      But entering your PAN number is I think compulsory from this point onward if you want to continue transacting through Paypal. I don't see a big problem while paying through your CC. You can simply withdraw your PP balance to CC and then pay anonymously using your pp account. So I don't think there is so much big trouble with their updated policies.

      So the ultimate thing is we can still perform usual transaction using PP but now our transactions will be monitored by RBI. That's it.
      Every time you login to your PayPal account, it asks for your PAN number. But, if you click on any other link, like Contact Us, you can go to your account and perform activities normally.

      CC isn't a problem at all.

      The only problem I think is going to be at the time of withdrawal. I think except for the PAN number, it would ask us to sort of verify our transactions in a way or another.

      Karan
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      • Profile picture of the author FredJones
        Originally Posted by Karan Goel View Post

        Every time you login to your PayPal account, it asks for your PAN number. But, if you click on any other link, like Contact Us, you can go to your account and perform activities normally.

        CC isn't a problem at all.

        The only problem I think is going to be at the time of withdrawal. I think except for the PAN number, it would ask us to sort of verify our transactions in a way or another.

        Karan
        Yes, this circumvention exists, but may not last long. I don't know how long they will let this happen before freezing the account.

        As per the payment email goes, I had received it also. But I have been happily buying things using my Paypal balance - have made at least 7-8 (maybe more) purchase transactions in April so far with no hassle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
    Hi Karan,

    Since you mentioned, do you think we can have US Premium account?

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
      Originally Posted by Naveed Peerzade View Post

      Hi Karan,

      Since you mentioned, do you think we can have US Premium account?

      .
      Hey Naveed.

      Yes. All you need to do is choose US as the country during sign up. Since I created the account solely for testing, I entered a fake address, and phone no.

      Karan

      Originally Posted by chandan_dutta View Post

      Here is the Update -

      I withdrawn money to my bank account on 15th April and today(20th) money deposited in bank account. I have account in HDFC. So, everything is working fine I believe. Even I am able to make payment using my PayPal balance.
      Hey. Would like to know if you have entered your PAN no.

      Thanks
      Karan
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  • Profile picture of the author dreamtab
    This is really a bad news..... even if you withdraw less than Rs.7500 they will charge a transaction fee. Freelancer would be out of this business soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author roger123
    PayPal sucks .. use affiliate programs which pay by Payoneer or Epassporte - and use 2checkout to receive money from the web - transfer the money to your Payoneer card and withdraw it from any ATM that accepts Master card.
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  • Profile picture of the author redstone123
    Bad business..........
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  • Profile picture of the author chandan_dutta
    Here is the Update -

    I withdrawn money to my bank account on 15th April and today(20th) money deposited in bank account. I have account in HDFC. So, everything is working fine I believe. Even I am able to make payment using my PayPal balance.
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    • Profile picture of the author Naveed Peerzade
      Originally Posted by chandan_dutta View Post

      Here is the Update -

      I withdrawn money to my bank account on 15th April and today(20th) money deposited in bank account. I have account in HDFC. So, everything is working fine I believe. Even I am able to make payment using my PayPal balance.
      Yup, so far I am able to pay using paypal balance.
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  • you might just want to quit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      2010 thread!
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        2010 thread!
        Didn't even notice, someone must have bumped it and deleted their post. I seen this at the top of the forum this afternoon
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I know - it was bumped by a spammer. Then he got removed and we had a blooper
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          Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

          Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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