Why would an IM guru "stop selling" a particular product?

49 replies
For example, I'd like to buy Walker's Product Launch Formula. But as it turns out, he's pulled it from the market. Evidently he did this with (both?) versions.

In researching IM, I've seen other gurus do similar things. They seem to do a big ass launch for a product, sell maybe 1000 units (or whatever) and then stop selling the product. Why?

Is this in response to piracy? Perhaps it's one method of battling the inevitable fact that eventually their material will make it onto the rapidshare sites, so better to create a huge launch and build anticipation and make a lot of money in the short run, rather than keeping the product for sale for the long run?

Also, buy "selling out" of the products (hard to imagine how you can 'sell out' of digital products) and updating the sales landing page to "Sorry! List control is no longer available, but go ahead and leave your email address and I'll notify you as soon as something is available in the future" allows them to:

a) build social proof (the product was so in demand that it actually sold out)
b) create even more urgency in the buyer (Dog gone it! It's sold out! I was ready to buy! Now I want it even more...)
c) build a list

Thoughts?
#guru #product #stop selling
  • Profile picture of the author .X.
    Since Jeff Walker teaches scarcity as
    a part of his launch formula, that's
    a likely reason.

    But it's not the only reason for limiting -

    I could give you a dozen reasons, but
    I don't feel like thinking that hard right
    now.

    Maybe he wants to spend his spring
    mountain biking instead of providing
    support.

    It's not always about money.

    Usually, but not always.

    X
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
      Originally Posted by .X. View Post

      Maybe he wants to spend his spring
      mountain biking instead of providing
      support.

      It's not always about money.

      Usually, but not always.

      X
      That's almost the exact reason I quit selling stuff. I wanted to play and enjoy myself for a while. Also, my support/tech guy decided to start working with his church and I've been too lazy to replace him.
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      • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
        Because if they sell too much, everyone will start applying the method and it will no longer be effective thus rendering it useless and everyone will get pi**ed off at the "guru" and not buy any of his products anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheGuruHub
    It's all about scarcity and training your market to respond when you put up the "for sale" sign and put a time limit on it.

    If you get left off and you really wanted in, you'll make sure you are there when the doors open the next time.

    Jeff is a master at this and it has served him well.

    Best-
    Gregg
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    • Profile picture of the author rickkettner
      Originally Posted by TheGuruHub View Post

      It's all about scarcity and training your market to respond when you put up the "for sale" sign and put a time limit on it.
      Exactly. Having said that, I don't know why they don't offer some lower-end "always available" products to convert regular traffic to paying customers (who will then buy the big ticket items when available).
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
      Originally Posted by TheGuruHub View Post

      It's all about scarcity and training your market to respond when you put up the "for sale" sign and put a time limit on it.

      If you get left off and you really wanted in, you'll make sure you are there when the doors open the next time.

      Jeff is a master at this and it has served him well.

      Best-
      Gregg
      Gotcha. That's absolutely brilliant.

      However, isn't he missing out on some sales?
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    Sometimes we want to limit the number of buyers to make sure we can support them. But I am not a guru.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Ranger
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      Sometimes we want to limit the number of buyers to make sure we can support them. But I am not a guru.
      Just wondering if there are any examples of this in the offline world. A company holding back sales so that they can handle support.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Steve Ranger View Post

        Just wondering if there are any examples of this in the offline world. A company holding back sales so that they can handle support.
        Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.

          O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it. I know you'll try to have a rebuttal, w/ a stupid emoticon. Instead show proof that companies, hold back sales, just to handle support issues....

          don't ever try, to run an offline biz...stay with your online..stuff.
          Signature

          " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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          • Profile picture of the author .X.
            Mel,

            I think there are a lot of different ways
            to run a business and some of us are
            pretty hands on when it comes to
            support, especially if we're the only
            ones able to answer half the questions
            that come up.

            Selling hamburgers or downloadable
            MP3 files is one thing; selling high level
            information is another.

            I can assure you that I have put
            limits on certain things I sell or put
            off an offer until I felt I had the bandwidth
            to deal with support.

            It's not quite as easy as popping a
            paper cone hat on a $75 per month
            laborer in a third-world country and
            yelling "go!"

            X


            Originally Posted by Magic Mel View Post

            O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it. I know you'll try to have a rebuttal, w/ a stupid emoticon. Instead show proof that companies, hold back sales, just to handle support issues....

            don't ever try, to run an offline biz...stay with your online..stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Magic Mel View Post

            O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it.
            You failed economics, didn't you?

            A company will grow its support base if - and only if - the profit margin on the additional sales will exceed the expense of growing the support base.

            Consider a doctor's office. When they are seeing all the patients that the current doctors can handle, they have to stop taking patients until they can bring on another doctor. However, they will not take on another doctor until there are enough patients to cover his salary.

            Until that time, they will not take new patients.

            Homework: Find a doctor that is not accepting new patients.
            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              You failed economics, didn't you?

              A company will grow its support base if - and only if - the profit margin on the additional sales will exceed the expense of growing the support base.

              Consider a doctor's office. When they are seeing all the patients that the current doctors can handle, they have to stop taking patients until they can bring on another doctor. However, they will not take on another doctor until there are enough patients to cover his salary.

              Until that time, they will not take new patients.

              Homework: Find a doctor that is not accepting new patients.
              Your analogy doesn't hold truth for those businesses that work in downtown that sell fabrics, merchandise. if they stop their sales, then they go out of business. The guy next door, sure as hell isn't going to stop selling just... because of customer support issues.

              Like i said, they will hire more customer service reps as their businesses grow. I aced my economics class, thanks buddy

              I'm waiting for a rebuttal from you, w/ a stupid emoticon.
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              " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              You failed economics, didn't you?
              I don't think that's a remotely fair argument. Look at the title of the thread. It says product, not service. In this context, they are not the same thing.


              Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author johnwalton
            Originally Posted by Magic Mel View Post

            O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it. I know you'll try to have a rebuttal, w/ a stupid emoticon. Instead show proof that companies, hold back sales, just to handle support issues....

            don't ever try, to run an offline biz...stay with your online..stuff.
            Completely agree. We are outsourcing all our customer support. Love the Philippians.

            Only a fool would hold back sales. Especially at internet level volume.
            the internet revolution is just beginning.
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        • Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.
          Man you're wrong... Why would a company voluntarily refuse new sales?!? no company in the world does that other than ultra high luxurious brands (top of the range Ferraris, limited edition Rolex watches, etc). It's much easier to hire new support staff than sending customers back home empty handed.

          Whatever the reason Jeff has to limit his sales (scarcity or whatever), it sure isn't customer support.
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
          Banned
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.
          Sure they do...in Bizarro World.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bayo
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      Sometimes we want to limit the number of buyers to make sure we can support them. But I am not a guru.
      I agree with both points (plus you potentiall keep people's thieving hands off it too!)

      How're you doing Brad?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    Brad I understand the sense in that but a lot of gurus do not offer support. I spoke to a person who has relabeled a PLR and he told me he will only offer it for a short time - pull it of and in about 6 months get new title and graphics and put it back up - sneaky eh?
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
      Originally Posted by paulbarrs View Post

      The general 'unspoken' guide is that most of these guys release a new product each 3 - 4 months.

      The sales target is usually around the low 6-figure bracket (100K to 250 K). Many might think that this is insane, but it's quite easy when you have a good list and are selling a medium ticket item at $500 - $1,000.

      [Sidebar: at $500 with just 500 sales and you've got 1/4 million. Much easier to do 250 sales at $1,000]

      So, yes, the scarcity rule is strictly applied. They want their customers HUNGRY for the next launch.

      However, this *is not* where they make their money. The real money is at the seminars where they'll often do 50 - $100K in a weekend.

      Actually, most of this is not accurate... the numbers are way off, and the "real money" is most definitely not made at seminars.

      (Don't get me wrong, some people make a lot of money by putting on seminars... but generally not in the IM world. And the idea of putting on a seminar for $50k is not exactly appealing for the big dogs in the business. Sorry if that sounds arrogant... just telling the truth here folks. Seminars are a lot of work and a lot of risk.)

      When I first released Product Launch Formula it was sold on a continual basis... but I noticed that people got much better results when I taught it as a class and we could have interaction. So for the last couple of years I've been running a class every 6 to 8 months.

      We open up registration, it pretty much always sells out in a few hours... and then we run the class.

      For "Magic Mel"... sorry, you're wrong... at least for MY company. We definitely limit sales. The last three times I've offered Product Launch Formula we limited it to 500 seats ... because that's what think we can support.

      (We actually oversell by a bit, because we know there will be refunds and duplicate orders - our goal is to have a net of 500 students.)

      Am I leaving money on the table? Definitely.

      But I think it all comes back in the long run... because I think we have the best support in the business - and I believe great support has a real bottom-line value.

      (I'm biased about having the best support of course, but my support staff has it's own fan club... many of them here on WF who are on first name basis with my support superstars).

      Of course, all this means there's a ton of scarcity that comes with my offers - I'm not gonna deny that, and I'm not gonna deny that it makes selling pretty simple. But that works for all business... when there's more demand than you can handle, well... it's a nice place to be.


      - Jeff
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
        Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

        Actually, most of this is not accurate... the numbers are way off, and the "real money" is most definitely not made at seminars.

        (Don't get me wrong, some people make a lot of money by putting on seminars... but generally not in the IM world. And the idea of putting on a seminar for $50k is not exactly appealing for the big dogs in the business. Sorry if that sounds arrogant... just telling the truth here folks. Seminars are a lot of work and a lot of risk.)

        When I first released Product Launch Formula it was sold on a continual basis... but I noticed that people got much better results when I taught it as a class and we could have interaction. So for the last couple of years I've been running a class every 6 to 8 months.

        We open up registration, it pretty much always sells out in a few hours... and then we run the class.

        For "Magic Mel"... sorry, you're wrong... at least for MY company. We definitely limit sales. The last three times I've offered Product Launch Formula we limited it to 500 seats ... because that's what think we can support.

        (We actually oversell by a bit, because we know there will be refunds and duplicate orders - our goal is to have a net of 500 students.)

        Am I leaving money on the table? Definitely.

        But I think it all comes back in the long run... because I think we have the best support in the business - and I believe great support has a real bottom-line value.

        (I'm biased about having the best support of course, but my support staff has it's own fan club... many of them here on WF who are on first name basis with my support superstars).

        Of course, all this means there's a ton of scarcity that comes with my offers - I'm not gonna deny that, and I'm not gonna deny that it makes selling pretty simple. But that works for all business... when there's more demand than you can handle, well... it's a nice place to be.


        - Jeff
        Thanks, Jeff. You answered me while I was writing...you b'stard.



        Cheers,
        Steve
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        Not promoting right now

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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

        Actually, most of this is not accurate... the numbers are way off, and the "real money" is most definitely not made at seminars.

        (Don't get me wrong, some people make a lot of money by putting on seminars... but generally not in the IM world. And the idea of putting on a seminar for $50k is not exactly appealing for the big dogs in the business. Sorry if that sounds arrogant... just telling the truth here folks. Seminars are a lot of work and a lot of risk.

        - Jeff
        Wish youd told me that before I started doing them. hahahaha

        How are you man

        Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Yes, he does miss out on sales, but it evens out because he has rabid buyers that throw the cash down as quickly as the product hits the stands. They eagerly await his new products and he gets to open the doors for a short while and make a ton of cash. Way to go, I say. Very clever marketing.

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    Think of it like a movie release. The movie is hyped up for months, makes a bunch of money in the first couple of weeks, and then is no longer in theaters. Once the buzz is gone, the movie companies move on to promote the next hot movie. In the IM niche, there are plenty of products that are 'next in line' for marketers to promote before doing another launch for themselves.

    They're not necessarily missing out on sales because of the ongoing affiliate income opportunities and possible continuity income from their launch.
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      With IM product launches it is mostly a scarcity tactic used to
      drive wabblers off the fence. There may be some practical
      reason backing the scarcity - case by case basis.

      Scarcity is one of the most powerful driving motivators in
      direct response selling. There are tricks to doing it well.

      Read books to understand.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      Think of it like a movie release. The movie is hyped up for months, makes a bunch of money in the first couple of weeks, and then is no longer in theaters. Once the buzz is gone, the movie companies move on to promote the next hot movie. In the IM niche, there are plenty of products that are 'next in line' for marketers to promote before doing another launch for themselves.

      They're not necessarily missing out on sales because of the ongoing affiliate income opportunities and possible continuity income from their launch.
      A close analogy but not entirely applicable to IM.

      In the movie world, NEW movies are constantly being
      created. Very few get re-released within a short time
      period virtually unchanged.

      The BIG difference in the IM market in particular, especially
      with the launch cartel is that they release virtually the SAME
      product every 6 months or so (with maybe a couple of tweaks
      to make it sound new).

      New hook, virtually the same stuff.

      How many times has Mass Control, PLF, Underground Labs,
      etc been re-released with some 'new' spin on it?

      Hint: Loads.

      In addition, the syndicate collude together to hype up
      each others product, whip their lists up into a frenzy and
      then sell the product within a very tight window of opportunity
      to stimulate urgent buying decisions.

      Plus, those in the guru cartel also need to find the time and
      space on their promotion calendar to pitch their list on the
      other launch products of their buddies in the back-scratching
      club.

      So they each take it in turn and they cycle repeats itself.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        A close analogy but not entirely applicable to IM.
        I think it is applicable. Pre-launch content is released (trailers and teasers), buzz gets going (word of mouth and online chatter), and people are hopefully foaming at the mouth come launch day.

        The video game industry is pretty similar too. Company rep delivers news of sequel at a gaming con, attendees get all hyped up and start blogging/posting online, everyone gets all excited, pre-orders are made, and launch day sales go through the roof.

        This totally worked on me just a few days ago...the new Splinter Cell came out here on the 13th and I bought it that afternoon.

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        In the movie world, NEW movies are constantly being
        created. Very few get re-released within a short time
        period virtually unchanged.
        Have you watched Twilight, Made of Honor, The Notebook, or Maid in Manhattan? (guy meets girl, initial attraction, ooooohh a little adversity, kiss, the end)

        What about Ong Bak, The Medallion, Enter the Dragon, or Rumble in the Bronx? (fight, lame plot, fight)

        You'll find that the ratio of original plots to recycled plots in movies is probably similar to the ratio of original ideas to rehashed crap in online products.

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Plus, those in the guru cartel also need to find the time and
        space on their promotion calendar to pitch their list on the
        other launch products of their buddies in the back-scratching
        club.
        From Wikipedia: Cartel members may agree on such matters as price fixing, total industry output, market shares, allocation of customers, allocation of territories, bid rigging, establishment of common sales agencies, and the division of profits or combination of these.

        If you think there's a cartel or a syndicate, then you're just making excuses for not achieving the level of success you want.

        And the reason why they promote each other is because JVs are based on relationships and reciprocity. Back in the day, a few guys with lists made sales for some other guys with products. The product owners returned the favour.

        Put another way: back-scratching is inherent in JV partnerships. Without the aspects of relationships or reciprocity, JV partners would turn into mere affiliates.

        Curtis
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

          I think it is applicable. Pre-launch content is released (trailers and teasers), buzz gets going (word of mouth and online chatter), and people are hopefully foaming at the mouth come launch day.

          The video game industry is pretty similar too. Company rep delivers news of sequel at a gaming con, attendees get all hyped up and start blogging/posting online, everyone gets all excited, pre-orders are made, and launch day sales go through the roof.

          This totally worked on me just a few days ago...the new Splinter Cell came out here on the 13th and I bought it that afternoon.
          I stated that the analogy is CLOSE but not ENTIRELY
          applicable.

          There are some very close applications of the movie
          analogy that apply to the launch process within IM
          just like the ones you've mentioned, i.e. trailers,
          buzz, etc.

          The difference IMO is that in the movie industry NEW
          films are released each time. Occassionaly, a movie
          makes a sequel. Rarely does the same movie get
          released again and again within a very short time
          period.

          In IM, it's usually the SAME content being re-released
          with a slightly different angle.

          I haven't seen many movies released and then 6 months
          later, re-released again with virtually the same content.

          That's the difference.

          That's why I acknowledged that the similarities are CLOSE
          but not ENTIRELY applicable.

          I never said that they're unalike - far from it.

          Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

          Have you watched Twilight, Made of Honor, The Notebook, or Maid in Manhattan? (guy meets girl, initial attraction, ooooohh a little adversity, kiss, the end)

          What about Ong Bak, The Medallion, Enter the Dragon, or Rumble in the Bronx? (fight, lame plot, fight)

          You'll find that the ratio of original plots to recycled plots in movies is probably similar to the ratio of original ideas to rehashed crap in online products.
          I'm well aware that plots in movies and stories in general
          are recycled.

          In fact, The Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker is a
          great book to read if you want to discover the 7 key plots
          that are used in movies and occur in life again and again.

          (There are only a few plots that are useful in marketing).

          Or try The 20 Master Plots by Ronald b. Tobias.

          This isn't about stories being recycled.

          This is about essentially the same content in IM being
          put on and taken off the market within short time periods
          - mainly for the benefit of the cartel - not necessarily for
          the benefit of the customer.

          Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

          From Wikipedia: Cartel members may agree on such matters as price fixing, total industry output, market shares, allocation of customers, allocation of territories, bid rigging, establishment of common sales agencies, and the division of profits or combination of these.

          If you think there's a cartel or a syndicate, then you're just making excuses for not achieving the level of success you want.
          I have achieved authority status in the niches I've chosen
          to operate in over my career - internationally.

          I'm often invited to speak at events on my key subjects
          and frequently choose to turn them down.

          I consider myself to be successful - some may say highly.

          I'm not sure how much you know about me, but your
          initial judgement is way off base.

          I'm open minded, but not so open minded that my brains
          fall out.

          I take responsibility for my actions and having been
          working on my own personal development for around
          14 years, I have a distinct intolerance for excuses.

          If you can't see a cartel in operation by the syndicate
          then maybe you need to take a closer look at what's
          really happening.

          I used to drink the Guru Kool-Aid a few years back but
          I stopped when someone explained the real deal to me
          too.

          (In fact, when they first told me, I was dismissive as well
          but then eventually saw the light).

          Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

          And the reason why they promote each other is because JVs are based on relationships and reciprocity. Back in the day, a few guys with lists made sales for some other guys with products. The product owners returned the favour.

          Put another way: back-scratching is inherent in JV partnerships. Without the aspects of relationships or reciprocity, JV partners would turn into mere affiliates.
          Curtis
          You're right.

          In any JV, a degree of relationship and reciprocity are
          involved. So back-scratching is inherent.

          However, in the IM industry, the real needs of the customer
          are often pushed aside in favor of the needs of the syndicate
          members and their JV/affiliates.

          Dedicated to your success,

          Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author IZWAR
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Soapyshoe
      All the IM gurus who do this seem to be rich.

      I think it's more of a long-term thing than short-term thing.

      Jeff Walker seems to be the pioneer for it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
          Maybe he wants to spend his spring
          mountain biking instead of providing
          support.

          You're closer than you might think here...

          Lots of my business decisions are driven by lifestyle choices. I'm hoping to do some skiing AND mountain biking tomorrow. If I get really really ambitious I might go for a triple and do some kayaking as well. It's a great time of year here in Colorado.

          I control my own destiny in my business, so why work when I don't want to work?


          - Jeff
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
            Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

            You're closer than you might think here...

            Lots of my business decisions are driven by lifestyle choices. I'm hoping to do some skiing AND mountain biking tomorrow. If I get really really ambitious I might go for a triple and do some kayaking as well. It's a great time of year here in Colorado.

            I control my own destiny in my business, so why work when I don't want to work?


            - Jeff
            Jeff,

            You're a grand-poisson...not only here, but throughout our entire community...therefore many folks will take your reply as "truth"...

            ...but it's *your* truth, and it doesn't really answer the original question.

            All I'm seeing is "I" control "my" destiny, if "I" don't want to do something..."I" don't...

            Well, Jeff, I'm no bleeding heart (by any means), but I don't think the crux of the question was about you...I think it was about scarcity...and why it's used...(and why it seems to be so effective)

            I think the folks want to know *why and how* scarcity works, not how it's improved your lifestyle.

            Cheers,
            Steve
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            Not promoting right now

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            • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
              Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

              I think the folks want to know *why and how* scarcity works, not how it's improved your lifestyle.

              Cheers,
              Steve
              To discover exactly why and how scarcity and all the other
              psychological triggers pushed during a launch process work,
              people can read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

              You may have already read it Steve.

              Dedicated to your success,

              Shaun
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              .

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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
                Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

                To discover exactly why and how scarcity and all the other
                psychological triggers pushed during a launch process work,
                people can read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

                You may have already read it Steve.

                Dedicated to your success,

                Shaun
                I have indeed, Shaun...(actually, I read that one, and listened to "Yes! 50 Secrets etc" on Audible)

                Great stuff...I understand scarcity...but some folks reading this thread *won't*...although they'll understand better if they read your book choice

                Cheers,
                Steve
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                Not promoting right now

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            • There is a LOT of power in urgency.
              Actually, without urgency you can't call it "direct response" anymore, because there's no reason to act now.

              1.
              Somebody mentioned List Control... I am really not sure it would sell nearly as well if it was evergreen.
              It's a 1,997 product (as most of the Guru's products) - there are PLENTY of reasons to spend that kind of money "tomorrow".

              2.
              If you buy when you are in an emotional frenzy, AND the product actually delivers and is designed to eliminate "buyer's remorse", then you'll be happy you made it in time... Therefore, it increases your happiness with the product.
              If you could buy it anytime, it's a commodity.
              If you had to struggle and fight and wake up at 5am to get it, then you'll be WAY happier with the product and ready to tell your friends about it. (IF it delivers)

              3. I have a business that has a lot of evergreen products (we don't sell much of these). I am marketing "special offers" on these all the time (if you buy now, you get bonus XYZ...). Guess what ? I'm just announcing the unannounced bonus that came with the product anyway. However, this time limit is the reason for almost all the sales of that business.

              Do not forget that if you have an evergreen product, you still have to SEND people to the offer. Therefore you have to nag people all year round to send them to the damn link, like David DeAngelo does with his 160-email autoresponder sequence.
              I'd much rather do a launch once every quarter and go swimming (no biking for me)

              Sebastien


              Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

              Jeff,

              You're a grand-poisson...not only here, but throughout our entire community...therefore many folks will take your reply as "truth"...

              ...but it's *your* truth, and it doesn't really answer the original question.

              All I'm seeing is "I" control "my" destiny, if "I" don't want to do something..."I" don't...

              Well, Jeff, I'm no bleeding heart (by any means), but I don't think the crux of the question was about you...I think it was about scarcity...and why it's used...(and why it seems to be so effective)

              I think the folks want to know *why and how* scarcity works, not how it's improved your lifestyle.

              Cheers,
              Steve
              Sorry but...
              Did you read BOTH the title of the thread AND Jeff's post before hitting that "reply" button ?

              Sebastien
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              I'm a Product Launch Manager, personally trained by Jeff Walker.

              Click here to get a free video training on How to Make Money from your List.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    People will not think twice to buy something if it's going to be sold out
    soon.

    Gurus know this, so they limit their sales to 100, 200, 1000 etc...
    make lots of sales in a short amount of time, and move onto the
    next.

    It's a very good business model.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kella Bella
    Thinks we need to send Dark and Mel outside n let em duke it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by snowtiger View Post

    For example, I'd like to buy Walker's Product Launch Formula. But as it turns out, he's pulled it from the market. Evidently he did this with (both?) versions.

    In researching IM, I've seen other gurus do similar things. They seem to do a big ass launch for a product, sell maybe 1000 units (or whatever) and then stop selling the product. Why?

    Is this in response to piracy? Perhaps it's one method of battling the inevitable fact that eventually their material will make it onto the rapidshare sites, so better to create a huge launch and build anticipation and make a lot of money in the short run, rather than keeping the product for sale for the long run?

    Also, buy "selling out" of the products (hard to imagine how you can 'sell out' of digital products) and updating the sales landing page to "Sorry! List control is no longer available, but go ahead and leave your email address and I'll notify you as soon as something is available in the future" allows them to:

    a) build social proof (the product was so in demand that it actually sold out)
    b) create even more urgency in the buyer (Dog gone it! It's sold out! I was ready to buy! Now I want it even more...)
    c) build a list

    Thoughts?
    Try offering support to 1,000,000 customers by yourself, and let us know how it goes.

    That's why I would do it. Too many customers can be a nightmare, especially when selling a how to course like Jeff does.
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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
    Shaun,

    -Same plot, different characters = "same content re-released with different angle"

    -If you look at the products put out by this so-called cartel, you'll realize that many (or most) of them are actually of decent-to-high quality. The customer is at least partially to blame if they do not get any value from them. You'd think that if the same how-to's were being sold to the same person a hundred times, they'd eventually learn HOW TO DO IT.

    -Don't let a few rotten apples...

    -I would have no problem joining the ranks of these evil shadowy scheming cultists (ahem, I mean, people who have likely worked hard to get to where they are). If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

    Curtis

    P.S. I would actually not mind being proven wrong on the whole cartel/syndicate thing. Is there some concrete proof like sinister Skype chats or hidden messages in the Bible (sorry, couldn't resist ), or should I go with you based on faith?
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    Curtis Ng (blog) - Product Launch Manager
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      Shaun,

      -Same plot, different characters = "same content re-released with different angle"

      -If you look at the products put out by this so-called cartel, you'll realize that many (or most) of them are actually of decent-to-high quality. The customer is at least partially to blame if they do not get any value from them. You'd think that if the same how-to's were being sold to the same person a hundred times, they'd eventually learn HOW TO DO IT.

      -Don't let a few rotten apples...

      -I would have no problem joining the ranks of these evil shadowy scheming cultists (ahem, I mean, people who have likely worked hard to get to where they are). If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

      Curtis

      P.S. I would actually not mind being proven wrong on the whole cartel/syndicate thing. Is there some concrete proof like sinister Skype chats or hidden messages in the Bible (sorry, couldn't resist ), or should I go with you based on faith?
      A lot of the launch products are of high quality - I
      haven't questioned that.

      In fact, in times past I've bought a lot of them and
      many have been high quality indeed.

      Neither have I accused you of being a bad person.

      To see proof of the syndicate at work, just open
      your mind and open your eyes to see what's really
      going on.

      As the saying goes, "There are none so blind as
      those who will not see."


      Like I said, I used to drink the Kool-Aid and didn't
      see it either - and dismissed it at first.

      Not now.

      You can of course choose to dismiss or accept the
      observation - I have no vested interest.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
    Hey Jeff thanks for responding! Are you going to be releasing a new version of PLF soon?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
      Originally Posted by snowtiger View Post

      Hey Jeff thanks for responding! Are you going to be releasing a new version of PLF soon?
      Yes... I'm working on a all-new version. It will be 100% new from the ground up, and I'm planning on releasing it in June.


      - Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    I just love it when Jeff pokes his nose in here :-)

    I use scarcity in every single one of my products and it works. People just don't want to risk "losing out" on the next big thing.

    And if you offer a Best Product 2.0 - they want the new stuff and don't want to miss out on that.

    Look at it this way: if someone is using a software or technique that is cutting edge and you can put it to use TODAY and make money, don't you want it now instead of a year from now? EVERYTHING - well almost everything - goes out of date or won't work due to changes in the platforms and the internet environment itself.

    So - you want it NOW so you can use it... and when you add scarcity, it ratchets up the pressure to jump on it and not lose out.
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    birminghamshootingrange.comfor sale |"Knowledge is NOT power... ACTION on Knowledge is power"
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  • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
    "Customer support" would only be a constraint if you offered personal one-on-one coaching as a major component of the offer, or delivered all your content via live webinars, etc. where interaction was absolutely vital (think John Carlton's Simple Writing System, or what JW said a bit back).

    But the whole customer support thing doesn't apply to most of the digital product launches that are still being pulled off the market within a week i.e. List Control, etc. I must be totally underestimating the amount of extra sales people like Kern etc. can generate via the scarcity factor of a "limited time" launch - because I can't imagine limiting a product like List Control. Why not just do a big launch AND then keep it available for sale??
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
      Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post

      "Customer support" would only be a constraint if you offered personal one-on-one coaching as a major component of the offer, or delivered all your content via live webinars, etc. where interaction was absolutely vital (think John Carlton's Simple Writing System, or what JW said a bit back).

      But the whole customer support thing doesn't apply to most of the digital product launches that are still being pulled off the market within a week i.e. List Control, etc. I must be totally underestimating the amount of extra sales people like Kern etc. can generate via the scarcity factor of a "limited time" launch - because I can't imagine limiting a product like List Control. Why not just do a big launch AND then keep it available for sale??
      I was under the impression that List Control isn't fully "limited." You can still order it through the "sneaky back door link" on his blog, yes?
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  • They have to stop selling the product guys because if they "never did" then no one would believe it when an IM guru says "only 500 copies will be sold" or so on & so on.

    Also most likely they are working on their next product and have already made a bunch of money from their previous ones lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
    They have to stop selling the product guys because if they "never did" then no one would believe it when an IM guru says "only 500 copies will be sold" or so on & so on.
    I just find it hard to believe that any "limited time" offer shenanigans is going to sway someone on a $2000 product. If they are going to buy, they're gonna buy. If they can't afford it, it ain't gonna matter. Obviously I'm wrong here I just find it very hard to believe. I mean people buying these 2k products aren't your normal "bottom of the barrel" newbies who make an impulse decision to buy a $47 ebook (no offense to anyone).

    My feeling is that you can easily induce the same level of "scarcity" with bonuses and via other methods. I just can't see any reason to NOT have an evergreen product, unless again it is based on one-on-one coaching or support (which seems like a crappy model to begin with, unless you love teaching people "one on one").

    I specialize in $50-300 products and have no experience with $2,000 products, but I'm thinking of creating one just to test out this whole launch thing, because I still don't understand the logic behind it.

    For example I have a $197 product. I make a large number of sales, consistently, every single day. I'm 99.9% positive I've made more in just the last 6 months than I would have made with a PLF style launch and then took it off the market a week later. Maybe it makes sense with mega expensive stuff??

    Jeff Walker said "I control my own destiny in my business, so why work when I don't want to work?". Fine, that makes sense since he also said he found his customers are happier when he offers PLF as an interactive "live" class. But again, this doesn't apply to most of the digital products behind most of the launches going on.

    Most people strive to develop products and businesses that DON'T rely on them providing personal coaching. So Jeff's response makes sense for him and his product, but it doesn't make sense for something like List Control which isn't based on one-on-one coaching or interaction. The overwhelming majority of the List Control product is "just" a bunch of videos in a members only area.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
      Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post

      I just find it hard to believe that any "limited time" offer shenanigans is going to sway someone on a $2000 product. If they are going to buy, they're gonna buy.

      <snip>

      My feeling is that you can easily induce the same level of "scarcity" with bonuses and via other methods.

      In my experience the strongest scarcity comes from a product or offer going away - after the promotion, you can no longer get the offer.

      The next most powerful type of scarcity comes from the price going up at the end of the promotion.

      After those two types of scarcity, the next most powerful scarcity comes from "bonuses going away" after the promotion.

      Of course, that's a general rule of thumb... it will vary depending on the product and offer. But that's what I've seen over dozens and dozens of promotions and offers at all kinds of different price points.


      Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post

      For example I have a $197 product. I make a large number of sales, consistently, every single day. I'm 99.9% positive I've made more in just the last 6 months than I would have made with a PLF style launch and then took it off the market a week later. Maybe it makes sense with mega expensive stuff??
      Congrats on your success... that's awesome that you're making lots of sales every day.

      I'm not one that normally comes on WF and pitches my product, but for someone who is having your level of success, then PLF is a no-brainer. It's like money in the bank. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

      And just to clear up one important point... pulling a product off the market is NOT necessarily part of Product Launch Formula. It's one of the tools in the toolbox, but there are plenty of other tools. I would say that the majority of launches do NOT end with the product being pulled from the market.

      I *do* teach that you need to end your launch with an exclamation point - there must be SOMETHING at the end of the launch to force people to make a decision - because almost all of us (including me) likes to put off making decisions.

      But pulling the product from the market is just one of the potential ways to create that exclamation point at the end of your launch.


      - Jeff
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisGuthrie
      It's all about scarcity. I know it's been said before, but there is a reason why all of the 'guru's' do product launches the exact same way.

      Through experimentation they have found what works the best long ago and that's why they continue to work this way. Even though it's not like they "run out" it's just that they use that to help sell more during the product launch.

      Continuing to build the list is the second benefit of closing it down I suppose.
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  • Profile picture of the author h3athrow
    A good example of a company that does this in the offline world is Disney. They release and re-release DVD editions like nobody's business. After a new DVD is on the shelves for awhile, they let it go out of print, only to reintroduce it a few year's later in a slightly different format (different extras, an extra disc, new tech like Blu-Ray, etc.). Gives it an available-for-a-limited-time-only feeling to hustle extra sales (scarcity), and gives them the chance to rerelease it later.
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