Why would an IM guru "stop selling" a particular product?

.X.

16 years ago

Since Jeff Walker teaches scarcity as
a part of his launch formula, that's
a likely reason.

But it's not the only reason for limiting -

I could give you a dozen reasons, but
I don't feel like thinking that hard right
now.

Maybe he wants to spend his spring
mountain biking instead of providing
support.

It's not always about money.

Usually, but not always.

X

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Jason Moffatt 16 years ago

Originally Posted by .X.

Maybe he wants to spend his spring
mountain biking instead of providing
support.

It's not always about money.

Usually, but not always.

X

That's almost the exact reason I quit selling stuff. I wanted to play and enjoy myself for a while. Also, my support/tech guy decided to start working with his church and I've been too lazy to replace him.
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- LetsGoViral 16 years ago
  
  Because if they sell too much, everyone will start applying the method and it will no longer be effective thus rendering it useless and everyone will get pi**ed off at the "guru" and not buy any of his products anymore.
  
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TheGuruHub

16 years ago

It's all about scarcity and training your market to respond when you put up the "for sale" sign and put a time limit on it.

If you get left off and you really wanted in, you'll make sure you are there when the doors open the next time.

Jeff is a master at this and it has served him well.

Best-
Gregg

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rickkettner 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheGuruHub

It's all about scarcity and training your market to respond when you put up the "for sale" sign and put a time limit on it.

Exactly. Having said that, I don't know why they don't offer some lower-end "always available" products to convert regular traffic to paying customers (who will then buy the big ticket items when available).
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Sean Fry

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheGuruHub

It's all about scarcity and training your market to respond when you put up the "for sale" sign and put a time limit on it.

If you get left off and you really wanted in, you'll make sure you are there when the doors open the next time.

Jeff is a master at this and it has served him well.

Best-
Gregg

Gotcha. That's absolutely brilliant.

However, isn't he missing out on some sales?

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Brad Gosse

16 years ago

Sometimes we want to limit the number of buyers to make sure we can support them. But I am not a guru.

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Steve Ranger

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

Sometimes we want to limit the number of buyers to make sure we can support them. But I am not a guru.

Just wondering if there are any examples of this in the offline world. A company holding back sales so that they can handle support.

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Ranger

Just wondering if there are any examples of this in the offline world. A company holding back sales so that they can handle support.

Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.

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TheMagicShow

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.

O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it. I know you'll try to have a rebuttal, w/ a stupid emoticon. Instead show proof that companies, hold back sales, just to handle support issues....

don't ever try, to run an offline biz...stay with your online..stuff.

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.X.

16 years ago

Mel,

I think there are a lot of different ways
to run a business and some of us are
pretty hands on when it comes to
support, especially if we're the only
ones able to answer half the questions
that come up.

Selling hamburgers or downloadable
MP3 files is one thing; selling high level
information is another.

I can assure you that I have put
limits on certain things I sell or put
off an offer until I felt I had the bandwidth
to deal with support.

It's not quite as easy as popping a
paper cone hat on a $75 per month
laborer in a third-world country and
yelling "go!"

X

Originally Posted by Magic Mel

O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it. I know you'll try to have a rebuttal, w/ a stupid emoticon. Instead show proof that companies, hold back sales, just to handle support issues....

don't ever try, to run an offline biz...stay with your online..stuff.

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Magic Mel

O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it.

You failed economics, didn't you?

A company will grow its support base if - and only if - the profit margin on the additional sales will exceed the expense of growing the support base.

Consider a doctor's office. When they are seeing all the patients that the current doctors can handle, they have to stop taking patients until they can bring on another doctor. However, they will not take on another doctor until there are enough patients to cover his salary.

Until that time, they will not take new patients.

Homework: Find a doctor that is not accepting new patients.

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TheMagicShow

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

You failed economics, didn't you?

A company will grow its support base if - and only if - the profit margin on the additional sales will exceed the expense of growing the support base.

Consider a doctor's office. When they are seeing all the patients that the current doctors can handle, they have to stop taking patients until they can bring on another doctor. However, they will not take on another doctor until there are enough patients to cover his salary.

Until that time, they will not take new patients.

Homework: Find a doctor that is not accepting new patients.

Your analogy doesn't hold truth for those businesses that work in downtown that sell fabrics, merchandise. if they stop their sales, then they go out of business. The guy next door, sure as hell isn't going to stop selling just... because of customer support issues.

Like i said, they will hire more customer service reps as their businesses grow. I aced my economics class, thanks buddy

I'm waiting for a rebuttal from you, w/ a stupid emoticon.

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Paul Myers 16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

You failed economics, didn't you?

I don't think that's a remotely fair argument. Look at the title of the thread. It says product, not service. In this context, they are not the same thing.

Paul
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johnwalton

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Magic Mel

O' man, you are so wrong as usual. Companies never hold back sales, they just grow their support base, either in-house or outsource it. I know you'll try to have a rebuttal, w/ a stupid emoticon. Instead show proof that companies, hold back sales, just to handle support issues....

don't ever try, to run an offline biz...stay with your online..stuff.

Completely agree. We are outsourcing all our customer support. Love the Philippians.

Only a fool would hold back sales. Especially at internet level volume.
the internet revolution is just beginning.

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Anonymous Affiliate 16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.

Man you're wrong... Why would a company voluntarily refuse new sales?!? no company in the world does that other than ultra high luxurious brands (top of the range Ferraris, limited edition Rolex watches, etc). It's much easier to hire new support staff than sending customers back home empty handed.

Whatever the reason Jeff has to limit his sales (scarcity or whatever), it sure isn't customer support.
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Black Hat Cat Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Pretty much every successful business that provides support does this.

Sure they do...in Bizarro World.
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Bayo 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

Sometimes we want to limit the number of buyers to make sure we can support them. But I am not a guru.

I agree with both points (plus you potentiall keep people's thieving hands off it too!)

How're you doing Brad?
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Sue McDonald

16 years ago

Brad I understand the sense in that but a lot of gurus do not offer support. I spoke to a person who has relabeled a PLR and he told me he will only offer it for a short time - pull it of and in about 6 months get new title and graphics and put it back up - sneaky eh?

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Paul Barrs

16 years ago

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Jeff Walker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by paulbarrs

The general 'unspoken' guide is that most of these guys release a new product each 3 - 4 months.

The sales target is usually around the low 6-figure bracket (100K to 250 K). Many might think that this is insane, but it's quite easy when you have a good list and are selling a medium ticket item at $500 - $1,000.

[Sidebar: at $500 with just 500 sales and you've got 1/4 million. Much easier to do 250 sales at $1,000]

So, yes, the scarcity rule is strictly applied. They want their customers HUNGRY for the next launch.

However, this *is not* where they make their money. The real money is at the seminars where they'll often do 50 - $100K in a weekend.

Actually, most of this is not accurate... the numbers are way off, and the "real money" is most definitely not made at seminars.

(Don't get me wrong, some people make a lot of money by putting on seminars... but generally not in the IM world. And the idea of putting on a seminar for $50k is not exactly appealing for the big dogs in the business. Sorry if that sounds arrogant... just telling the truth here folks. Seminars are a lot of work and a lot of risk.)

When I first released Product Launch Formula it was sold on a continual basis... but I noticed that people got much better results when I taught it as a class and we could have interaction. So for the last couple of years I've been running a class every 6 to 8 months.

We open up registration, it pretty much always sells out in a few hours... and then we run the class.

For "Magic Mel"... sorry, you're wrong... at least for MY company. We definitely limit sales. The last three times I've offered Product Launch Formula we limited it to 500 seats ... because that's what think we can support.

(We actually oversell by a bit, because we know there will be refunds and duplicate orders - our goal is to have a net of 500 students.)

Am I leaving money on the table? Definitely.

But I think it all comes back in the long run... because I think we have the best support in the business - and I believe great support has a real bottom-line value.

(I'm biased about having the best support of course, but my support staff has it's own fan club... many of them here on WF who are on first name basis with my support superstars).

Of course, all this means there's a ton of scarcity that comes with my offers - I'm not gonna deny that, and I'm not gonna deny that it makes selling pretty simple. But that works for all business... when there's more demand than you can handle, well... it's a nice place to be.

- Jeff

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Steven Fullman

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Walker

Actually, most of this is not accurate... the numbers are way off, and the "real money" is most definitely not made at seminars.

(Don't get me wrong, some people make a lot of money by putting on seminars... but generally not in the IM world. And the idea of putting on a seminar for $50k is not exactly appealing for the big dogs in the business. Sorry if that sounds arrogant... just telling the truth here folks. Seminars are a lot of work and a lot of risk.)

When I first released Product Launch Formula it was sold on a continual basis... but I noticed that people got much better results when I taught it as a class and we could have interaction. So for the last couple of years I've been running a class every 6 to 8 months.

We open up registration, it pretty much always sells out in a few hours... and then we run the class.

For "Magic Mel"... sorry, you're wrong... at least for MY company. We definitely limit sales. The last three times I've offered Product Launch Formula we limited it to 500 seats ... because that's what think we can support.

(We actually oversell by a bit, because we know there will be refunds and duplicate orders - our goal is to have a net of 500 students.)

Am I leaving money on the table? Definitely.

But I think it all comes back in the long run... because I think we have the best support in the business - and I believe great support has a real bottom-line value.

(I'm biased about having the best support of course, but my support staff has it's own fan club... many of them here on WF who are on first name basis with my support superstars).

Of course, all this means there's a ton of scarcity that comes with my offers - I'm not gonna deny that, and I'm not gonna deny that it makes selling pretty simple. But that works for all business... when there's more demand than you can handle, well... it's a nice place to be.

- Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. You answered me while I was writing...you b'stard.

Cheers,
Steve

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Robert Puddy

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Walker

Actually, most of this is not accurate... the numbers are way off, and the "real money" is most definitely not made at seminars.

(Don't get me wrong, some people make a lot of money by putting on seminars... but generally not in the IM world. And the idea of putting on a seminar for $50k is not exactly appealing for the big dogs in the business. Sorry if that sounds arrogant... just telling the truth here folks. Seminars are a lot of work and a lot of risk.

- Jeff

Wish youd told me that before I started doing them. hahahaha

How are you man

Robert

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tommygadget

16 years ago

Yes, he does miss out on sales, but it evens out because he has rabid buyers that throw the cash down as quickly as the product hits the stands. They eagerly await his new products and he gets to open the doors for a short while and make a ton of cash. Way to go, I say. Very clever marketing.

TomG.

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Ron Douglas

16 years ago

Think of it like a movie release. The movie is hyped up for months, makes a bunch of money in the first couple of weeks, and then is no longer in theaters. Once the buzz is gone, the movie companies move on to promote the next hot movie. In the IM niche, there are plenty of products that are 'next in line' for marketers to promote before doing another launch for themselves.

They're not necessarily missing out on sales because of the ongoing affiliate income opportunities and possible continuity income from their launch.

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Loren Woirhaye 16 years ago

With IM product launches it is mostly a scarcity tactic used to
drive wabblers off the fence. There may be some practical
reason backing the scarcity - case by case basis.

Scarcity is one of the most powerful driving motivators in
direct response selling. There are tricks to doing it well.

Read books to understand.
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Shaun OReilly

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Think of it like a movie release. The movie is hyped up for months, makes a bunch of money in the first couple of weeks, and then is no longer in theaters. Once the buzz is gone, the movie companies move on to promote the next hot movie. In the IM niche, there are plenty of products that are 'next in line' for marketers to promote before doing another launch for themselves.

They're not necessarily missing out on sales because of the ongoing affiliate income opportunities and possible continuity income from their launch.

A close analogy but not entirely applicable to IM.

In the movie world, NEW movies are constantly being
created. Very few get re-released within a short time
period virtually unchanged.

The BIG difference in the IM market in particular, especially
with the launch cartel is that they release virtually the SAME
product every 6 months or so (with maybe a couple of tweaks
to make it sound new).

New hook, virtually the same stuff.

How many times has Mass Control, PLF, Underground Labs,
etc been re-released with some 'new' spin on it?

Hint: Loads.

In addition, the syndicate collude together to hype up
each others product, whip their lists up into a frenzy and
then sell the product within a very tight window of opportunity
to stimulate urgent buying decisions.

Plus, those in the guru cartel also need to find the time and
space on their promotion calendar to pitch their list on the
other launch products of their buddies in the back-scratching
club.

So they each take it in turn and they cycle repeats itself.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

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CurtisN

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly

A close analogy but not entirely applicable to IM.

I think it is applicable. Pre-launch content is released (trailers and teasers), buzz gets going (word of mouth and online chatter), and people are hopefully foaming at the mouth come launch day.

The video game industry is pretty similar too. Company rep delivers news of sequel at a gaming con, attendees get all hyped up and start blogging/posting online, everyone gets all excited, pre-orders are made, and launch day sales go through the roof.

This totally worked on me just a few days ago...the new Splinter Cell came out here on the 13th and I bought it that afternoon.

Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly

In the movie world, NEW movies are constantly being
created. Very few get re-released within a short time
period virtually unchanged.

Have you watched Twilight, Made of Honor, The Notebook, or Maid in Manhattan? (guy meets girl, initial attraction, ooooohh a little adversity, kiss, the end)

What about Ong Bak, The Medallion, Enter the Dragon, or Rumble in the Bronx? (fight, lame plot, fight)

You'll find that the ratio of original plots to recycled plots in movies is probably similar to the ratio of original ideas to rehashed crap in online products.

Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly

Plus, those in the guru cartel also need to find the time and
space on their promotion calendar to pitch their list on the
other launch products of their buddies in the back-scratching
club.

From Wikipedia: Cartel members may agree on such matters as price fixing, total industry output, market shares, allocation of customers, allocation of territories, bid rigging, establishment of common sales agencies, and the division of profits or combination of these.

If you think there's a cartel or a syndicate, then you're just making excuses for not achieving the level of success you want.

And the reason why they promote each other is because JVs are based on relationships and reciprocity. Back in the day, a few guys with lists made sales for some other guys with products. The product owners returned the favour.

Put another way: back-scratching is inherent in JV partnerships. Without the aspects of relationships or reciprocity, JV partners would turn into mere affiliates.

Curtis

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Shaun OReilly

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CurtisN

I think it is applicable. Pre-launch content is released (trailers and teasers), buzz gets going (word of mouth and online chatter), and people are hopefully foaming at the mouth come launch day.

The video game industry is pretty similar too. Company rep delivers news of sequel at a gaming con, attendees get all hyped up and start blogging/posting online, everyone gets all excited, pre-orders are made, and launch day sales go through the roof.

This totally worked on me just a few days ago...the new Splinter Cell came out here on the 13th and I bought it that afternoon.

I stated that the analogy is CLOSE but not ENTIRELY
applicable.

There are some very close applications of the movie
analogy that apply to the launch process within IM
just like the ones you've mentioned, i.e. trailers,
buzz, etc.

The difference IMO is that in the movie industry NEW
films are released each time. Occassionaly, a movie
makes a sequel. Rarely does the same movie get
released again and again within a very short time
period.

In IM, it's usually the SAME content being re-released
with a slightly different angle.

I haven't seen many movies released and then 6 months
later, re-released again with virtually the same content.

That's the difference.

That's why I acknowledged that the similarities are CLOSE
but not ENTIRELY applicable.

I never said that they're unalike - far from it.

Originally Posted by CurtisN

Have you watched Twilight, Made of Honor, The Notebook, or Maid in Manhattan? (guy meets girl, initial attraction, ooooohh a little adversity, kiss, the end)

What about Ong Bak, The Medallion, Enter the Dragon, or Rumble in the Bronx? (fight, lame plot, fight)

You'll find that the ratio of original plots to recycled plots in movies is probably similar to the ratio of original ideas to rehashed crap in online products.

I'm well aware that plots in movies and stories in general
are recycled.

In fact, The Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker is a
great book to read if you want to discover the 7 key plots
that are used in movies and occur in life again and again.

(There are only a few plots that are useful in marketing).

Or try The 20 Master Plots by Ronald b. Tobias.

This isn't about stories being recycled.

This is about essentially the same content in IM being
put on and taken off the market within short time periods
- mainly for the benefit of the cartel - not necessarily for
the benefit of the customer.

Originally Posted by CurtisN

From Wikipedia: Cartel members may agree on such matters as price fixing, total industry output, market shares, allocation of customers, allocation of territories, bid rigging, establishment of common sales agencies, and the division of profits or combination of these.

If you think there's a cartel or a syndicate, then you're just making excuses for not achieving the level of success you want.

I have achieved authority status in the niches I've chosen
to operate in over my career - internationally.

I'm often invited to speak at events on my key subjects
and frequently choose to turn them down.

I consider myself to be successful - some may say highly.

I'm not sure how much you know about me, but your
initial judgement is way off base.

I'm open minded, but not so open minded that my brains
fall out.

I take responsibility for my actions and having been
working on my own personal development for around
14 years, I have a distinct intolerance for excuses.

If you can't see a cartel in operation by the syndicate
then maybe you need to take a closer look at what's
really happening.

I used to drink the Guru Kool-Aid a few years back but
I stopped when someone explained the real deal to me
too.

(In fact, when they first told me, I was dismissive as well
but then eventually saw the light).

Originally Posted by CurtisN

And the reason why they promote each other is because JVs are based on relationships and reciprocity. Back in the day, a few guys with lists made sales for some other guys with products. The product owners returned the favour.

Put another way: back-scratching is inherent in JV partnerships. Without the aspects of relationships or reciprocity, JV partners would turn into mere affiliates.
Curtis

You're right.

In any JV, a degree of relationship and reciprocity are
involved. So back-scratching is inherent.

However, in the IM industry, the real needs of the customer
are often pushed aside in favor of the needs of the syndicate
members and their JV/affiliates.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

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IZWAR

Banned 16 years ago

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Soapyshoe

16 years ago

All the IM gurus who do this seem to be rich.

I think it's more of a long-term thing than short-term thing.

Jeff Walker seems to be the pioneer for it.

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Paul Barrs

16 years ago

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Jeff Walker

16 years ago

Maybe he wants to spend his spring
mountain biking instead of providing
support.

You're closer than you might think here...

Lots of my business decisions are driven by lifestyle choices. I'm hoping to do some skiing AND mountain biking tomorrow. If I get really really ambitious I might go for a triple and do some kayaking as well. It's a great time of year here in Colorado.

I control my own destiny in my business, so why work when I don't want to work?

- Jeff

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Steven Fullman

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Walker

You're closer than you might think here...

Lots of my business decisions are driven by lifestyle choices. I'm hoping to do some skiing AND mountain biking tomorrow. If I get really really ambitious I might go for a triple and do some kayaking as well. It's a great time of year here in Colorado.

I control my own destiny in my business, so why work when I don't want to work?

- Jeff

Jeff,

You're a grand-poisson...not only here, but throughout our entire community...therefore many folks will take your reply as "truth"...

...but it's *your* truth, and it doesn't really answer the original question.

All I'm seeing is "I" control "my" destiny, if "I" don't want to do something..."I" don't...

Well, Jeff, I'm no bleeding heart (by any means), but I don't think the crux of the question was about you...I think it was about scarcity...and why it's used...(and why it seems to be so effective)

I think the folks want to know *why and how* scarcity works, not how it's improved your lifestyle.

Cheers,
Steve

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Shaun OReilly

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

I think the folks want to know *why and how* scarcity works, not how it's improved your lifestyle.

Cheers,
Steve

To discover exactly why and how scarcity and all the other
psychological triggers pushed during a launch process work,
people can read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

You may have already read it Steve.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

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Steven Fullman

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly

To discover exactly why and how scarcity and all the other
psychological triggers pushed during a launch process work,
people can read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

You may have already read it Steve.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

I have indeed, Shaun...(actually, I read that one, and listened to "Yes! 50 Secrets etc" on Audible)

Great stuff...I understand scarcity...but some folks reading this thread *won't*...although they'll understand better if they read your book choice

Cheers,
Steve

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The French Marketer

16 years ago

There is a LOT of power in urgency.
Actually, without urgency you can't call it "direct response" anymore, because there's no reason to act now.

1.
Somebody mentioned List Control... I am really not sure it would sell nearly as well if it was evergreen.
It's a 1,997 product (as most of the Guru's products) - there are PLENTY of reasons to spend that kind of money "tomorrow".

2.
If you buy when you are in an emotional frenzy, AND the product actually delivers and is designed to eliminate "buyer's remorse", then you'll be happy you made it in time... Therefore, it increases your happiness with the product.
If you could buy it anytime, it's a commodity.
If you had to struggle and fight and wake up at 5am to get it, then you'll be WAY happier with the product and ready to tell your friends about it. (IF it delivers)

3. I have a business that has a lot of evergreen products (we don't sell much of these). I am marketing "special offers" on these all the time (if you buy now, you get bonus XYZ...). Guess what ? I'm just announcing the unannounced bonus that came with the product anyway. However, this time limit is the reason for almost all the sales of that business.

Do not forget that if you have an evergreen product, you still have to SEND people to the offer. Therefore you have to nag people all year round to send them to the damn link, like David DeAngelo does with his 160-email autoresponder sequence.
I'd much rather do a launch once every quarter and go swimming (no biking for me)

Sebastien

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Jeff,

You're a grand-poisson...not only here, but throughout our entire community...therefore many folks will take your reply as "truth"...

...but it's *your* truth, and it doesn't really answer the original question.

All I'm seeing is "I" control "my" destiny, if "I" don't want to do something..."I" don't...

Well, Jeff, I'm no bleeding heart (by any means), but I don't think the crux of the question was about you...I think it was about scarcity...and why it's used...(and why it seems to be so effective)

I think the folks want to know *why and how* scarcity works, not how it's improved your lifestyle.

Cheers,
Steve

Sorry but...
Did you read BOTH the title of the thread AND Jeff's post before hitting that "reply" button ?

Sebastien

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John Atkins

16 years ago

People will not think twice to buy something if it's going to be sold out
soon.

Gurus know this, so they limit their sales to 100, 200, 1000 etc...
make lots of sales in a short amount of time, and move onto the
next.

It's a very good business model.

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Kella Bella

16 years ago

Thinks we need to send Dark and Mel outside n let em duke it out.

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Floyd Fisher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by snowtiger

For example, I'd like to buy Walker's Product Launch Formula. But as it turns out, he's pulled it from the market. Evidently he did this with (both?) versions.

In researching IM, I've seen other gurus do similar things. They seem to do a big ass launch for a product, sell maybe 1000 units (or whatever) and then stop selling the product. Why?

Is this in response to piracy? Perhaps it's one method of battling the inevitable fact that eventually their material will make it onto the rapidshare sites, so better to create a huge launch and build anticipation and make a lot of money in the short run, rather than keeping the product for sale for the long run?

Also, buy "selling out" of the products (hard to imagine how you can 'sell out' of digital products) and updating the sales landing page to "Sorry! List control is no longer available, but go ahead and leave your email address and I'll notify you as soon as something is available in the future" allows them to:

a) build social proof (the product was so in demand that it actually sold out)
b) create even more urgency in the buyer (Dog gone it! It's sold out! I was ready to buy! Now I want it even more...)
c) build a list

Thoughts?

Try offering support to 1,000,000 customers by yourself, and let us know how it goes.

That's why I would do it. Too many customers can be a nightmare, especially when selling a how to course like Jeff does.

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CurtisN

16 years ago

Shaun,

-Same plot, different characters = "same content re-released with different angle"

-If you look at the products put out by this so-called cartel, you'll realize that many (or most) of them are actually of decent-to-high quality. The customer is at least partially to blame if they do not get any value from them. You'd think that if the same how-to's were being sold to the same person a hundred times, they'd eventually learn HOW TO DO IT.

-Don't let a few rotten apples...

-I would have no problem joining the ranks of these evil shadowy scheming cultists (ahem, I mean, people who have likely worked hard to get to where they are). If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

Curtis

P.S. I would actually not mind being proven wrong on the whole cartel/syndicate thing. Is there some concrete proof like sinister Skype chats or hidden messages in the Bible (sorry, couldn't resist

), or should I go with you based on faith?

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Shaun OReilly

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CurtisN

Shaun,

-Same plot, different characters = "same content re-released with different angle"

-If you look at the products put out by this so-called cartel, you'll realize that many (or most) of them are actually of decent-to-high quality. The customer is at least partially to blame if they do not get any value from them. You'd think that if the same how-to's were being sold to the same person a hundred times, they'd eventually learn HOW TO DO IT.

-Don't let a few rotten apples...

-I would have no problem joining the ranks of these evil shadowy scheming cultists (ahem, I mean, people who have likely worked hard to get to where they are). If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

Curtis

P.S. I would actually not mind being proven wrong on the whole cartel/syndicate thing. Is there some concrete proof like sinister Skype chats or hidden messages in the Bible (sorry, couldn't resist

), or should I go with you based on faith?

A lot of the launch products are of high quality - I
haven't questioned that.

In fact, in times past I've bought a lot of them and
many have been high quality indeed.

Neither have I accused you of being a bad person.

To see proof of the syndicate at work, just open
your mind and open your eyes to see what's really
going on.

As the saying goes, "There are none so blind as
those who will not see."

Like I said, I used to drink the Kool-Aid and didn't
see it either - and dismissed it at first.

Not now.

You can of course choose to dismiss or accept the
observation - I have no vested interest.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

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Sean Fry

16 years ago

Hey Jeff thanks for responding! Are you going to be releasing a new version of PLF soon?

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Jeff Walker 16 years ago

Originally Posted by snowtiger

Hey Jeff thanks for responding! Are you going to be releasing a new version of PLF soon?

Yes... I'm working on a all-new version. It will be 100% new from the ground up, and I'm planning on releasing it in June.

- Jeff
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winebuddy

16 years ago

I just love it when Jeff pokes his nose in here :-)

I use scarcity in every single one of my products and it works. People just don't want to risk "losing out" on the next big thing.

And if you offer a Best Product 2.0 - they want the new stuff and don't want to miss out on that.

Look at it this way: if someone is using a software or technique that is cutting edge and you can put it to use TODAY and make money, don't you want it now instead of a year from now? EVERYTHING - well almost everything - goes out of date or won't work due to changes in the platforms and the internet environment itself.

So - you want it NOW so you can use it... and when you add scarcity, it ratchets up the pressure to jump on it and not lose out.

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dsiomtw

16 years ago

"Customer support" would only be a constraint if you offered personal one-on-one coaching as a major component of the offer, or delivered all your content via live webinars, etc. where interaction was absolutely vital (think John Carlton's Simple Writing System, or what JW said a bit back).

But the whole customer support thing doesn't apply to most of the digital product launches that are still being pulled off the market within a week i.e. List Control, etc. I must be totally underestimating the amount of extra sales people like Kern etc. can generate via the scarcity factor of a "limited time" launch - because I can't imagine limiting a product like List Control. Why not just do a big launch AND then keep it available for sale??

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Sean Fry

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

"Customer support" would only be a constraint if you offered personal one-on-one coaching as a major component of the offer, or delivered all your content via live webinars, etc. where interaction was absolutely vital (think John Carlton's Simple Writing System, or what JW said a bit back).

But the whole customer support thing doesn't apply to most of the digital product launches that are still being pulled off the market within a week i.e. List Control, etc. I must be totally underestimating the amount of extra sales people like Kern etc. can generate via the scarcity factor of a "limited time" launch - because I can't imagine limiting a product like List Control. Why not just do a big launch AND then keep it available for sale??

I was under the impression that List Control isn't fully "limited." You can still order it through the "sneaky back door link" on his blog, yes?

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SEOServiceProvider

16 years ago

They have to stop selling the product guys because if they "never did" then no one would believe it when an IM guru says "only 500 copies will be sold" or so on & so on.

Also most likely they are working on their next product and have already made a bunch of money from their previous ones lol.

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dsiomtw

16 years ago

They have to stop selling the product guys because if they "never did" then no one would believe it when an IM guru says "only 500 copies will be sold" or so on & so on.

I just find it hard to believe that any "limited time" offer shenanigans is going to sway someone on a $2000 product. If they are going to buy, they're gonna buy. If they can't afford it, it ain't gonna matter. Obviously I'm wrong here I just find it very hard to believe. I mean people buying these 2k products aren't your normal "bottom of the barrel" newbies who make an impulse decision to buy a $47 ebook (no offense to anyone).

My feeling is that you can easily induce the same level of "scarcity" with bonuses and via other methods. I just can't see any reason to NOT have an evergreen product, unless again it is based on one-on-one coaching or support (which seems like a crappy model to begin with, unless you love teaching people "one on one").

I specialize in $50-300 products and have no experience with $2,000 products, but I'm thinking of creating one just to test out this whole launch thing, because I still don't understand the logic behind it.

For example I have a $197 product. I make a large number of sales, consistently, every single day. I'm 99.9% positive I've made more in just the last 6 months than I would have made with a PLF style launch and then took it off the market a week later. Maybe it makes sense with mega expensive stuff??

Jeff Walker said "I control my own destiny in my business, so why work when I don't want to work?". Fine, that makes sense since he also said he found his customers are happier when he offers PLF as an interactive "live" class. But again, this doesn't apply to most of the digital products behind most of the launches going on.

Most people strive to develop products and businesses that DON'T rely on them providing personal coaching. So Jeff's response makes sense for him and his product, but it doesn't make sense for something like List Control which isn't based on one-on-one coaching or interaction. The overwhelming majority of the List Control product is "just" a bunch of videos in a members only area.

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Jeff Walker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

I just find it hard to believe that any "limited time" offer shenanigans is going to sway someone on a $2000 product. If they are going to buy, they're gonna buy.

<snip>

My feeling is that you can easily induce the same level of "scarcity" with bonuses and via other methods.

In my experience the strongest scarcity comes from a product or offer going away - after the promotion, you can no longer get the offer.

The next most powerful type of scarcity comes from the price going up at the end of the promotion.

After those two types of scarcity, the next most powerful scarcity comes from "bonuses going away" after the promotion.

Of course, that's a general rule of thumb... it will vary depending on the product and offer. But that's what I've seen over dozens and dozens of promotions and offers at all kinds of different price points.

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

For example I have a $197 product. I make a large number of sales, consistently, every single day. I'm 99.9% positive I've made more in just the last 6 months than I would have made with a PLF style launch and then took it off the market a week later. Maybe it makes sense with mega expensive stuff??

Congrats on your success... that's awesome that you're making lots of sales every day.

I'm not one that normally comes on WF and pitches my product, but for someone who is having your level of success, then PLF is a no-brainer. It's like money in the bank. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

And just to clear up one important point... pulling a product off the market is NOT necessarily part of Product Launch Formula. It's one of the tools in the toolbox, but there are plenty of other tools. I would say that the majority of launches do NOT end with the product being pulled from the market.

I *do* teach that you need to end your launch with an exclamation point - there must be SOMETHING at the end of the launch to force people to make a decision - because almost all of us (including me) likes to put off making decisions.

But pulling the product from the market is just one of the potential ways to create that exclamation point at the end of your launch.

- Jeff

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ChrisGuthrie 16 years ago

It's all about scarcity. I know it's been said before, but there is a reason why all of the 'guru's' do product launches the exact same way.

Through experimentation they have found what works the best long ago and that's why they continue to work this way. Even though it's not like they "run out" it's just that they use that to help sell more during the product launch.

Continuing to build the list is the second benefit of closing it down I suppose.
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h3athrow

16 years ago

A good example of a company that does this in the offline world is Disney. They release and re-release DVD editions like nobody's business. After a new DVD is on the shelves for awhile, they let it go out of print, only to reintroduce it a few year's later in a slightly different format (different extras, an extra disc, new tech like Blu-Ray, etc.). Gives it an available-for-a-limited-time-only feeling to hustle extra sales (scarcity), and gives them the chance to rerelease it later.

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Why would an IM guru "stop selling" a particular product?

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